The “referendum” only ever took place because a previous opinion poll (hopelessly biased as it was in favour of SIW’s “project”) didn’t deliver the right result. The result (52% against, 47% in favour with 1% undecided) was written off as being the result of a “vocal minority” campaigning against it. You can be quite sure that would not have been the verdict had it been the other way round. Still, not to be put off by democratic expression or any such niceties, the Council/SIW/the P&J try again (and this time make sure they get the result they want). The whole thing is a monumental waste of public money and it is a scandal that such an iconic piece of Aberdeen’s heritage could be filled in with concrete merely for some oil tycoon’s personal vanity project – because that’s what it is! If the sunken gardens are such a noose around the city’s neck, I suggest he goes down to Princes Street in Edinburgh and see if they corroborate his view!
Didn’t labour get less first choice votes than the snp? Hardly a glowing recommendation for keeping the gardens? I’m pro cgp but probably more pro regeneration of the city centre I read a post from a pro union terrace garden supporter who proposed keeping the gardens but covering the road/railway line and adding cafes,shops,art galleries, whatever. I think he could be onto a winner there and I think most pro cgp supporters would agree. The frustrating thing is how long it takes to do anything up here!! I.e bypass!!!!!!
You are absolutely correct when you say that Ian Wood and his associates will not lie down over this. It did strike me that the numbers of active voters in the recent council elections threw up one enormous question mark over the number of participants in the garden referendum.
For anyone with an iota of taste and sensibility to Aberdeen’s heritage the crass proposal to concrete over the sunken gardens is seen as sheer vandalism.
We can look at those who support the Wood plan and the councillors who suck up to him and decide for ourselves their motives. Sense and good taste doesn’t come into it.
The situation the SNP in Aberdeen has found itself in since the election is almost certainly a direct result of their unqualified support for this appalling project. The way they have behaved, their unwavering conformity to speak with one voice is nothing short of Stalinist and must send out warnings to prospective voters for future elections and referenda.
(evil masterplan)If they start demolishing UTG, I`m having those gates! I`ll stash them in Findon, they wont be seen for another 100 years, should be worth a bob or two by then.(/evil masterplan)
We all know this will go roughly 2x overbudget tho` ay?
You’re completely missing the point Peter. Aberdeen is a tired old fishing village and a project on this scale is essential to future oil revenues. Donald Duck has very graciously offered to front the first £5M of this ambitious scheme. To turn down that sort of offer would be akin to sending a message that Aberdeen is closed to cronyism. It’s clear from Councillor McChild’s explanation that the council will operate tight cost controls to come in under the projected £500m price tag. It’s people like you Peter with you leftist defeatist NIMBY attitude that hard holding this city back. Bring in the bulldozers and reduce it to rubble, the sooner the better!
WOW, love the dynamics of this hiconic concept, with a bit of personal attention to detail and a flight of fantasy vision from the right design company you could be off to a flyer. If you want any promotional work done come fly with me, I’m right up for a slice of pie in the sky. xxx
I gotta say I sure do like the look of that ugly tower with F-(seagull)- UCK YOU! on it – I’ve been doing the same thing with the words like “TRUMP” on towers for years and the folks back home love that kinda thing. As an expert in tourism I can tell you for fact that you aren’t making the most of your assets here – Billy Connolly lives nearby and you guys ought to be making the most of that. I reckon you ought to put “AWAY AND F**K YOURSELF” in huge letters like the HOLLYWOOD sign up along the skyline to the south of the city and light them up at night to put Aberdeen on the international tourist map.
@Steve, if Victoriana was cool then Queen Victoria would still be running the country. Now go back to you quaint little Cafe and baracade the doors because the bulldozers are coming. The future is light airy spaces of modular drywall construction.
I love reading Aberdeen Voice, it’s good to get some accurate news for the area and the writing is of high quality. Many happy returns and long may you continue.
I loved the article – I had tears streaming down my face – I recently watched the televised debate with Sir Ian Wood and other worthies about the development in the City Centre re Union Terrace/Gardens. – so I have an inkling of the real life scenario being satirised. I loved it!
Can ‘Old Susannah’, the self-professed oracle of knowledge and wisdom, enlighten us as to the following:
i) what, for each school built under the 3Rs project, the rental cost back to the Council is?
ii) what the difference between “PPI-type deals” and Public Private Partnerships is? Or whether she perhaps just didn’t bother researching the topic well enough to refer to the financing initiative by the correct name.
iii) if she disagrees with the way that £120million of improvements to the learning environment in Aberdeen were made, how she would finance it? Or would she have just let the school estate rot?
This article obfuscates and agitates. Planting a seed in the vulnerable minds that read this rag and undoubtedly it is there from which the loopy conspiracy theories stem.
What was the point of knocking down a perfectly sound school building in Cults and replacing it with a new one which is no better? We’re going to go on paying for this pointless replacement for decades, and that will be decades beyond the need for schools of this type which are completely unsuited to the revolution which is about to overtake education (and which will eliminate most of the need for schools).
How very nice to get the chance to discuss Suzanne Kelly’s contributions. I love her special blend of sarcasm and satire and as an ex-pat living in Sweden much enjoy reading the paper every Friday – I’m only surprised she hasn’t been done in by the council as yet!! If people only looked behind what she is saying some action might be taken on Menie, Union Terrace Gardens (God Almighty how can Aberdeen possibly afford 140 odd million and the thought of a city grid locked for two years is horrifying) not to mention all the other points she brings up about that project. Then there’s Tullos hill and Loirston – not enough people are fully engaged or care enough and will waken up too late. Long may this lady flourish and prosper!!
Every issue Mike Shepherd writes page after page of nonsense regarding the city gardens, what he fails to grasp is that the people of Aberdeen have spoken, we were asked in a referendum whether we wanted the new city gardens, the vote came back with a clear majority yes vote. The very vocal minority failed.
To even suggest the city ignore a democratic vote is lunacy and borders on Nazism, he put up a good fight but lost, can you imagine the outcry if this was happening the other way around.
George, the people of Aberdeen have not spoken. A more accurate statement from yourself would have been “the slim majority of the people of Aberdeen who voted in the City Garden Project referendum have approved the spending £140 million on a park after being bombarded with propaganda biased towards the City Garden Project during a period of several months”. In addition, I would also request that you stop spreading inaccurate propaganda about the legality and power of the referendum; the referendum was not binding and it never will be. May I suggest that you do some further reading on the subjects of politics, the legal system, and referendums—perhaps then you will be able to understand that there is no such thing as a referendum, binding or not, that establishes an absolute yes or no with such a fine majority as was the case with the City Garden Project.
If the referendum was so biased and not worth bothering about as it didn’t matter at the end of the day then why did the people against it (Mike Shepherd and his team) attend the voting result?
Smacks of sour grapes, also disappointing that the anti city gardens people are questioning the intelligence of the majority to decide the matter for themselves, no one was brainwashed by propaganda, we simply want the dead garden brought to street level.
Please respect the referendum result, every adult in Aberdeen was asked the question and we gave our answer, that’s proper democracy in action. If the result had went the other way would you still be crying foul play.
If you want to make a comparison with an undemocratic regime, George, perhaps Putin’s Russia would be a better one to choose. Putin uses his control over the media to ensure that the people are informed as to “what the people want”, and what the actual public then think the people want influences them into voting for “what the people want” (which actually means what Putin wants them to want) – this is a known psychological method of influencing people through misinformation. He also ensures that they only hear the news that suits his purposes and that the rest is blocked such that the people aren’t properly informed as to the facts. Exactly the same propaganda techniques were used here in Aberdeen throughout the referendum campaign, and long before it, exploiting the virtual monopoly of the local press in the knowledge that no one from the other side could get a word in without it being edited to water it down and have a reply by a pro-CGP guy tacked onto the end of it of equal or greater length. A Chomsky-style analysis of the EE and P&J over the last few years needs to be done to determine the actual degree of bias, but it will certainly be in excess of 90%. I am working on building artificial intelligence software capable of automating this task of analysis not only to make it practical, but also to ensure that no bias can creep into the analysis itself – once that has been done, everyone will know the score for certain, and this will happen before work on the CGP can begin. I don’t think it will be long before we get rid of the local propaganda rags which have for the last decade been driving Aberdeen in the wrong direction – they are the mouthpiece of developers who only care about making money for themselves.
The local press gave equal press to both sides of the debate (I went out of my way to check as I foresaw these accusations would come) , me thinks you’re employing your own “propaganda techniques”, the only platform that was biased (infact 100% biased) was the Aberdeen Voice.
You clearly aren’t capable of weighing up the evidence impartially if you think equal press was given to both sides – a simple exercise with highlighter pens will show the 90%+ bias very quickly. In the last week or so of the campaign you’ll see a significant shift in the direction of equal quantity of comment for both sides, but there is still massive tinkering going on, for example with all the most powerful parts of Jim Milne’s statement being edited out. Now, I can’t guarantee that I can analyse things perfectly either without some bias of my own creeping in, and however small that bias might be, it opens the door to people on your side accusing me of being hugely biassed, so no analysis done by me or anyone else will ever count for anything – he who shouts loudest will always win, and that means he who controls the press. That is why a completely impartial means of analysis is essential to resolve this issue, and all other contentious issues likewise – it needs high-level A.I., and that’s why rather than going on arguing about it here I’m going to get on with my A.I. work. Thanks for wishing me good luck with it, but it’s well beyond the stage where any luck is required.
You don’t believe the Aberdeen public are intelligent enough to decide what’s propaganda and what way they should have voted?
I asked my elderly parents how they voted and the answer was for the new city gardens, the reasons given were they could never access it as it is (1 is wheelchair bound the other not capable of many stairs) , the other reasons were they’ve never been down there anyway and the place is always empty, not swayed by propaganda, they like most people don’t even get the local paper, just a honest opinion as to their reasons.
Sorry George, I have no idea what you’re on about. Please see the following page to refresh your memory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism. Umm nope, that’s not what we have here. Oh well then, back to the comment writing!
George, again I must reply to you. David is absolutely correct in that this is simply a game, and unfortunately the banker controlling the game has significant political, press and financial influence. And I can tell you from my own research and from witnessing the full press coverage, from radio to paper, that the ‘pro’ and ‘anti’ advertising budgets certainly were not equal (if you believe this then it would seem that you have been taken in by the same biased propaganda that you say doesn’t exist).
If propaganda had no effect, the massive advertising campaign by the CGP side would not have taken place and the press would have been neutral. Propaganda demonstrably works, and the people of Aberdeen are not uniquely superior to the rest of humanity such that they can’t be influenced. Even if people don’t read the papers directly, the ideas pushed through them still get into the population and are spread around to everyone regardless, apart from a few people who are socially isolated. Opinions can be spread through a population through the art of propaganda while the spread of other opinions can be prevented by not giving them any room. The more often and the louder an opinion is shouted by a newspaper, the more widely it will be held as a result. There is no need to be right or to win the argument, but merely to be able to shout your case louder than the other side. Most of the people who voted had a negligible or highly warped understanding of what they were voting for as a direct result of the propaganda campaign, and that destroyed the attempt to measure public opinion on the issue. If you were to run another referendum on the issue with a propaganda campaign of the same scale in favour of the other side instead, the CGP would have been lucky to scrape 30% of the vote, at best.
Who’s right? You or me? Is propaganda a failed idea which doesn’t work? Is all money spent on adverts wasted? Is a good salesman no better than a bad one? When you look at the business cass for it, the CGP is actually a scheme to build a loss-making facility in the middle of town to compete against other loss-making facilities and thereby amplify all the losses. If the papers had spent a year pumping that message out, the whole idea of the CGP would have died lang syne.
Anonymous? Why George darling, that is my name. A name is simply an identifier that a person wishes to be known as, and not a good one at that. If this website wishes to have accurate and verifiable identification for comment posters then perhaps it would have in place a requirement that all posters submit their DNA in some form. In fact, you have proven quite well why some posters remain anonymous in debates such as this one, and that’s because people such as yourself enjoy personal attacks rather than attacks upon the points of debate raised. Accusing the writer of being a Nazi isn’t very sensible now, is it?
You are simply embarrassing yourself now George. This has nothing to do with the intelligence of anybody involved; it is a fact, yes fact, that humans are influenced quite easily by the world around them. I presume that you have not studied enough psychology to understand this, so I will let this pass. My point? During the campaign, there were false claims which were so sensational that there is no doubt in my mind that they did influence the referendum result (just not enough to ensure a valid majority though, LOL!). The evidence is available if you know where to look, and the economic report is quite frankly hilarious. Whether you like it or not, humans (fancy versions of monkeys, basically) are influenced by the media.
No one accused anyone of being a Nazi, talk about a drama queen!
I simply pointed out that democracy worked and that the people of Aberdeen are more than capable of deciding whether the dank hole in the ground is past its sell by date.
Embrace change, the people want it.
Same goes for the Bypass, the Trump golf course, Airport extension and City redevelopment, the majority want it all, the vocal minority can shout all they want it won’t stop progress.
I have a feeling this platform and the majority of its readers would have objected to industrial estates and oil exploration if it/they had been around in the 70’s.
“Most of the people who voted had a negligible or highly warped understanding of what they were voting for as a direct result of the propaganda campaign”
How do you know this as fact?
I believe that is a bizarre statement that implies you think you and the no voters are somewhat superior to those who voted for it!
I think I’ll stick on the side of a multi millionaire businessman who has built a business from scratch and provided employment for thousands of people (and the majority of voters in the referendum) over some anon person on a website.
As George has previously used the terms Nazism (subsequently withdrawn) and fascism when referring to the campaign against the CGP, his credibility on this forum is dropping even further, post by post.
I concur with Gary. Fairness is hard to define, but it is clear that the referendum was not fair, both legally and morally, due to the efforts of several individuals and organisations with significant and non-questioned public influence. Referendums are supposed to be run in an equal way, with all information provided being non-bias (or as much as possible subject to independent review), but this simply has not happened. Once again I must reiterate that at no point has the intelligence of voters been questioned; please consider even the basics of human psychology and behaviour before you make such a foolish statement. The fact is that humans are easily influenced in ways you wouldn’t even notice, and in this case people were influenced by false statements and promises provided by trusted public servants and media outlets. ‘Subconscious.’
George, there is no disputing that downright lies and flawed projections were presented as facts in the pro CGP propoganda. There is also no disputing that many, many people believed those. I know because I was on the street campaigning, and spoke to people who had voted fro CGP, and prominent among their reasons were those ‘facts’ eg, the jobs, the diseased elms, the costing by PwC who have been fined millions for flawed auditing for other projects.
Lets consider this.
If a jury convicted a suspect of a crime based on the evidence they were presented with, it would not make them stupid, and the suspect would rightly be convicted. If however the evidence was later found to be flawed, or any witness was found to be unreliable, then that suspect would have the conviction overturned. That is Justice, and justice has a value which is greater than democracy.
Whatever value you place on the outcome of the referendum, the process was unfair, and the ‘evidence’ which swung the voters was seriously flawed. To progress with the CGP would be a victory for those, who had they acted as they did in a court of law, would find themselves in a whole lot of trouble.
“I believe that is a bizarre statement that implies you think you and the no voters are somewhat superior to those who voted for it!”
Knowing more about an issue doesn’t make a person superior, but it can lead to their judgement of that issue being superior, so long as that knowledge doesn’t come from one side. Most of the people who voted got most of their information from one side – the press bias ensured that.
“I think I’ll stick on the side of a multi millionaire businessman who has built a business from scratch and provided employment for thousands of people (and the majority of voters in the referendum) over some anon person on a website.”
You’ll stick with a man who wants to saddle Aberdeen with a debt and a permanently loss-making facility which replaces a run-down park with a new concrete-themed park? The business case for it is an absolute pile of pants, so fortunately it hasn’t a hope of qualifying for TIF funding.
Thanks for your allusion to Plato, George. There are indeed many interesting parallels between the current situation and the Athenian democracy which Plato railed against.
As I understand it, Plato objected to the vote of a well-educated citizen carrying equal weight to that of one who knew little or nothing about the matter being voted on.
One of the main problems faced by the Athenian democracy in Plato’s time was the ease with which the citizens were swayed by demagogues – skilled public speakers who on occasion employed the art of rhetoric, rumour and propaganda to persuade the masses to vote against their own best interests.
The Athenian democracy made some horrible decisions. This is one of the reasons why we now have representative rather than direct democracy – our representatives are afforded a salary so they can devote their time to becoming well informed on matters of public interest.
I’m sorry to hear that your parents voted to destroy the Gardens without ever having visited them. I hope they will take the opportunity to do so before they are gone. From William Wallace’s statue, cross the road towards His Majesty’s Theatre – there’s a pedestrian crossing, it’s perfectly safe. Turn left and go past St Marks and the library. At the end of the library building, turn right down Skene Street. Take the first right, along the back of the theatre. In front of you is a very short tunnel or arch which will take you under Union Street and into the Gardens without having to negotiate any steps. It is a very tranquil place which I’m sure your parents will enjoy. My own parents are very fond of it, and are disappointed that their grandson’s favourite park is to be erased – but not being Athenian citizens they sadly have no say in the matter.
Let’s see: We had Sir Ian saying he would “walk away” if the public voted against his project. They voted against and he didn’t. so off we go again with all kinds of dubious propoganda and promises – remember the “pine forest”? No horticulturists on board at Acef & co it seems or they would have realised, pretty smartly, there’s not a hope in hell of pines growing in UTG. Then we come to the millions of pounds and thousands of jobs to appear magically because of Teletubbyland. Yes, propoganda appears to work folks, either that, or a serious proportion of our citizenry is gullible in the extreme. I’m sure we’d all be delighted if the road and railway in the Denburn was covered and grassed. That wouldn’t cost £140m (or £240m or £340m) but the movers and shakers appear not to like that idea. I wonder why? There has to be an ulterior motive for wasting such large amounts of money and I do wish someone would actually be honest and upfront about the necessity of The Granite Web for, to mere mortals, the business case just doesn’t stack up.
“As George has previously used the terms Nazism (subsequently withdrawn) and fascism when referring to the campaign against the CGP, his credibility on this forum is dropping even further, post by post.”
You think I’m concerned about my credibility?
I didn’t post to change anyone’s mind, I know that isn’t possible, especially on an extremely biased forum such as the Aberdeen Voice, I’m well aware of the position of the majority of the readers here. I do however hope that some people will see that ignoring the referendum is extremely undemocratic, judging by the latest opinion poll where 70% of those asked said we should listen to the result I appear to be with the majority.
I thank the editorial team here for allowing my views to stand, I expected heavy moderation.
An excellent post Melissa. Indeed the gardens do need improved access routes. I cannot deny that for the disabled, elderly or otherwise physically incapable there are not enough access routes which do not involve stairs. Let us hope that instead of the gardens becoming a concrete nod to people in high places they are revived and able to be used and enjoyed by all in a way and at a cost that the public deem worthy.
I had several people say they are delighted that the project isnt going ahead, that all the talk of it being empty was stupid, who the hell uses thier garden in bloody winter anyway??
There is NO good reason why they cant knock down the old offices and build the civic sq in the civic quarter and leave the green heart where it is….aberdeen didnt win britain in bloom with a concrete block!
George you are in ill informed troll and trolls shouldnt be fed! back under your bridge until something easier comes along….
George, if so many folk wanted the Granite Web to go ahead why did they not turn out to vote for councillors who shared their support for the development? It would appear that a majority of the councillors were elected on a clear promise to oppose the development. Is it not right that the fulfill their election promise?
The referendum was when the people were asked to vote on the gardens, we did and the city garden project was the clear winner, local elections are decided on tens of issues, you can’t start moving the goalposts when you lose.
Sarah,
I’m sorry if you feel I’m trolling, I honestly didn’t think a call to support democracy would be met with such hostility and personal attacks. I respect yours and others opinions even though I may not agree with them, please try and do the same for me without stooping to insults.
George, please stop bringing up old hat. Either you’re desperate to get a big reaction from your trolling, or your support of the City Gardens Project is paying your bills. Democracy goes both ways. On a side note, you can’t ignore the previous referendum. You know, the one before the heavily funded council referendum, the result of which you claim must be supported by everyone—democracy anyone? Sarah is quite within her rights to express her belief that you are a troll; it’s certainly looking a lot like it based on what you’ve said so far!
I live in Bucksburn and hand on heart never even knew the first consultation was happening, I’ve still to this day no idea in what format that consultation took. If I didn’t know about it then no doubt I wasn’t the only one, how can that be considered fair.
Regardless of what form it took even the most blinkered would agree that it was a very small percentage of the population who responded to it, the only fair way of asking the question to the people is to ask them all, the size of the vote in the referendum was huge and put shame on the turnout for the council elections.
Strange that you too claim I’m “trolling” when in fact I am on the side of the majority. Perhaps you can’t accept not everyone in the World agrees with your views.
looking to the vote, was the result swayed with online votes that where counted last? I seem to remember that things didnt look great for the utg web until the online votes where counted. I think i was around my mid 30`s when I began to realise when I was being influenced. Anyhows, what are the demographics of Aberdeen just now. Is it mostly young ppl or old?
I have to be honest here. I would like to see something happen down at UT, problem is I just didnt trust anyone involved with the current proposals. The £120 million budget was nonsense, the jobs created are being created anyway( I wouldnt want to be one of the businesses in those parks paying those rates).
My view that somebody needs this project to go wildly overbudget as it enevitably will, and will then seek to be seen to “help” the city for a small reward along the lines of ownership of the land, to then go ahead and build as they see fit.
This is as daft as a new football stadium that wants to compete with a failing AECC
How stupid and dated is the granite web going to look 50 years from now? Look at all the concrete eyesores thrown up in the 60`s. It will be a nice place for the homeless to hang out.
I would just like here to point out to George that Ian Wood (just like Trump) did NOT build his business from scratch – he is playing with his father’s money
I find it increasingly hilarious that the impending shitcanning of the CGP is being painted by shills as ‘anti-democratic’.
Of course, if the RETAIN vote had come out on top, none of this would now be taking place, but it’s hardly a case of sour grapes – the rather sinister backers of the CGP would have known that the game was up, and would have slunk off into the night, rightly chastened.
Instead, they doubled down on their amusing little paid-for advantage, and went into the elections confident that they’d get the result they’d splashed out on.
The difference between the referendum and the election, of course, is that one was an ELECTION, and the other manifestly wasn’t. One required people to actively engage with the process of democracy, and one required you to put a code in on a website.
Put it this way. You could go out onto the streets of Aberdeen today, and ask 80,000 people what they liked best, apples or oranges.
52% of your constituency might say apples. But then a month later, if the ‘We Hate Apples’ party rather surprisingly gets into power, they sure as sh*t don’t have to start liking apples.
The cancellation of the CGP is the ONLY democratic way forward.
From a countryside point of view, the culling of deer is important and needs to happen, but in this instance if the culling of deer has taken place to protect trees which have been planted only to commemorate the Queens Jubilee well that is wrong. Wild life is more important than stroking the queens ego.
Disgraceful behaviour by Aberdeen City Council, they never conculted the Citizens of Aberdeen on planting a tree for all citizens, and certainly never said they would be killing deer in order to do this, I am not happy about them murdering deer in my name, but what’s new with the council, they believe they are beyod the law and have no idea what democracy means, hang them high
Hi there i am kavin, its my first occasion to commenting anywhere, when i read this post i thought i could also make comment due to this
brilliant article.
Annie, Annie, stop your greetin.
Annie, Annie, stop your bleetin.
Widdie’s nae changin Duthie or Hazeheid,
Just the ditch in the middle o Union Street.
There was a fine singer named Lennox
Who said the web concept ‘is bollox’
‘The drawings are tosh’,
‘It would cost too much dosh.’
(Sir Ian is out of his box)
To go further, it’s interesting that the CGP shills got so heavily behind the ‘anti-democratic’ stance as their latest and probably last effort to sway popular opinion.
That only an imbicile couldn’t see through it is tantamount to the high-handed and – yes, I’ll say it – *contemptuous* attitude the pro-CGP adopted right from the start.
To be fair to the many successful businessmen behind it, it was dunderheaded move after dunderheaded move on their part – that they’re all extremely rich has less to do with their business skills and intelligence and more to do with them being unpleasant human beings. It’s a credit to the city that we’ve all been consistently unimpressed by their ham-fistedly proffered bauble.
And where’s George gone? Come back and tell us all how people getting what they voted for – as opposed to what they were asked their opinion on – is ‘undemocratic’
This is just not right. These deer have a right to live here just as we do. Why cannot the trees have wire mesh around them like the ones i see when hill walking to stop the deer from damageing the wood . I cannot fathom why or how our council get these ideas from. Is there anyone with any good plans or ideas on this council.
What is wrong with the council? Why have they spread a campaign of propaganda, misinformation and lies to enable them to perform an illegal extermination of deer (because it is clearly not a cull)? Why do the council give no regard for the constituents who they claim to represent and who have time and again raised their disgust and disgrace and a totally unnecessary scheme that is wasting all our countil tax monies while they allow pot holes to get bigger, Union Street to fade to a shadow of its former self, bus services to get worse and worse whilst charging higher fares?
Come on ACC sort out our city and stop this illegal disgrace of a massacre – you can keep my tree in you scheme if it saves one deer, otherwise it very much is time to bag the bags a move to a more civilised sity.
That’s criminal. It’s disgusting the council should be ashamed. All the authorities that are doing nothing about this should be ashamed.
What’s worst, the tree planting business will probably never happen. If it does it will be a disaster. You don’t just plant trees and forget about them they need some initial maintainance to grow properly.
This killing is all about CON-servation zealots and their desire to create aesthetically pleasing woodlands for the sacred cow of public access. Their hate focuses on deer because they might nibble the shoots of saplings and on deer fencing because it doesn’t look natural. The persecution of deer in their home environment is not “conservation”; it’s the futher exploitation of the natural environment for human consumption by fake conservationists.
It is worthy of note that urban woodlands can be no-go areas and attract all kinds of anti-social behaviour. How often do we see incidences of serious assault, rape and murders taking place in such environments – just look at BBC’s Crimewatch and newspaper reports to see what goes on in these environments. Householders should also be concerned if their properties back on to these woodlands.
Humans have gone too far. Aberdeen City Council should be ashamed of themselves, both for the pointless culling of this many deer and for being unable to oversee a simple operation (do a thing and then keep a log of how many times you have done that thing). It would appear from the evidence presented thus far that the individuals shooting the deer are unable to count — possibly unsuitable candidates for a firearms licence — and that Aberdeen City Council could not organise an Oompa Loompa on Willy Wonka’s factory tour.
The whole issue has been a complete and utter disgrace. Lies from beginning to end. Believe me Aberdeen Council HAD and still HAS enough money to pay for other means of protecting the trees. Aileen Malone and all those associated with her should be sacked over this. SNH and The Wildlife Trust who were so involved in all this should also stop and try hard to remember just what their organisation stands for – they have lost the plot and should hang their heads in shame. I agree that in some instances a control of certain animals has to take place in special circumstances, although i don’t like it, maybe it has to happen. This was NOT a special circumstance, just someones stupid idea to look like they were doing something ‘green and environmental’. Time to get used to sharing this planet with our wildlife, or lose it for future generations. Aberdeen Council are a laughing stock to many people across the UK – but sadly this isn’t funny.
As even hardy golfers will discover, the summer weather at Menie is not the same as they might be used to. Really quite a stupid place to build a golf course.
Still £15m short on donations from the private business sector gagging for this to go ahead, we were told. One imagines that being the reticent, shy, self-effacing, publicity-averse philanthropists they are, content to take a back seat when publicity is offered, that they have already pledged the money and have just ticked the “no publicity” box.
The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
He made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate.
I was sorry to see that three of the Lib Dems enthusiastic supporters of the destruction of a lovely , near tame of herd of deer , on Tullos Hill , It has always been my belief , that this sorry affair , is a vanity project , by those involved . Two of them sent Caristmas cards , posing together at a manger , watched over by harmless animals , not a deer in sight . What did it mean ,.
I did not understand URI . The Xmas card was sent to us . a previous election type card arrived , listing all the things the senders claimed credit for , including , a tree planting scheme . No mention of the deer kills that are planned , plus the poisoning of scarce habitat for bees and other pollinators . Must be a secret . I can not change a word , It is all true . as I see it .
I do not want my Council Tax spent on killing beautiful wild animals. This is a disgrace and I feel that the council has not listened to public opinion. I do not want a tree planted in my name if it means the death of a deer.
America is watching this and all of the rational people see the folly, and are embarrassed and ashamed of how the Trumpster has unethically used his money as a weapon of corruption. That would be “just business” (which is shameful enough) but invading other nations is both unethical, and immoral.
If the Trumpster had only thought to look at an almanac, even he could figure out that what he has done, didn’t need to be, without a calculator.
Stick to hounding the Dictator in Chief at home. That’s what is needed anyway.
The figure of 8000 jobs is pure hopeful speculation and utterly baseless. The dependence on TIF is fraught with all sorts of difficulties, so many unknowns and what happens if businesses fail to produce the cash required? The council will be responsible which will mean cutting services to cover any (inevitable) shortfall.
Complete madness when all that is required is some intelligent updating of UTG.
I understand that some some road “realignment” north of Balmedie has been causing some disruption. Apparently there is a new golf course opening nearby with potential for a new hotel and 750 houses in the future.
Perhaps a Disneyland type mono rail system from Balmedie “park and ride” along the central reservation of the dual carriageway to Brig o’ Don then left along the beach Esplanade up the Beach Boulevard to Castlegate may be worthwhile.
Best to ignore common muck like Paul, not only is he as thick as Trumps comb over…he’s actually proud to of it. Back to your Daily Star and Hollyoaks paul.
thank you Paul for the incisive remark above; clearly you have weighed up the loss of the only moving sand dune area in Scotland, the manner in which people were treated, the loss of habitat, carbon footprint of the scheme….
For those who haven’t had as much time to weigh the issues as Paul has, please come along to the Belmont Cinema, Aberdeen this week for screenings of ‘youv’ve been trumped’, the Saturday showing(s) – or at least some of them – will have the director and affected residents. Perhaps after seeing the film and talking to people who are living through yet another Trump project, you might have a different opinion than Paul does. – Old Susannah
The owner of the house who had the Grampian Police vehicle outside his house which then followed him, has the right to ask the police officer/s involved to surrender their badge number, take the registration number of the police car and also contact Grampian Police and ask them what they were doing outside their house at 3.45 am and why they followed him. I also suggest they write to their M.S.P, M.P and Alex Salmond to inform them of this incident.
WOW a moving sand dune oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!! Whoop de bloody do get a grip and move on let’s hope it’s not too long till the UTG are bulldozed as well
Nature reserves took a wrong turn in the past by stabilising sand dunes – the result was a loss of biodiversity. They are now tearing up marram grass to try to get their dunes moving again, though it will take a long time to get the original biodiversity to return. Trump has made the same mistake, but this time with a full understanding that it is a mistake, and in one of the few places where the biodiversity had not been lost. That is unforgivable, particularly as a golf course with identical geometry could have been built anywhere, and this crime against nature will disqualify Trump’s course from ever holding major competitions, destroying any ideas he has about its importance.
Hard to believe it happened after all the well directed opposition. I dare say it couldn’t have happened quite like that even here in the states. Loved Aberdeen when I was there (pre-Trump). Shame on Scotland’s national leaders for forcing this travesty upon it.
Amazing stuff this. Keep on saving cash like this and probably in about 780 years you will have enough cash to pay off Aberdeen F.C. debt of 15 millon.
Where was this “sporting integrity” when Aberdeen FC avoided relegation when Falkirks FC stadium was deemed unfit? why were Falkirk not allowed to use another stadium like Celtic were (Hampden).
Goes to show if you repeat a myth often enough it becomes believable.
For the sake of clarity, again, Aberdeen FC did not avoid relegation due to Falkirk’s non-compliant stadium. The SPL was due to be expanded that season to a 12 team league and the bottom side in the SPL was due to enter a three-way relegation play-off with the second and third sides in SFL 1. Each team would play each other once with the top two teams from that mini-league playing in the SPL the following season.
Falkirk didn’t apply to groundshare elsewhere so that is a moot point.
Ah Caveman, the old Aberdeen avoiding relegation myth that has been perpetuated by the Glasgow media so frequently that people like you take it as fact. Here’s the FACTS!! In the season Aberdeen “avoided relegation” the top 2 teams in division 1 were to be automatically promoted and the third team were to play the bottom team in the SPL in a play-off, this because the SPL was increasing from 10 to 12 teams the next season. In March of that season (when Aberdeen still had a very good chance of avoiding the bottom spot) it was clear Falkirk would finish in the top 3 and therefore it was decided there would be no play-off, just automatic promotion for the top 2 teams in Division 1 with a stadium that met SPL criteria. Where would be the “integrity” be in allowing Falkirk to groundshare when clubs like Raith Rovers had complied with SPL rules and upgraded their stadiums to SPL standard, thus severely reducing their playing budget and chances of SPL football in the process? Even if there was a play off, Aberdeen would have been strong favourites to win and avoid relegation. Still, don’t let these facts get in the way of things!
I know you won’t get it but it’s not about paying off AFC debt, they’ll have to deal with that as best they can and take the consequences. It’s about supporting less well off teams that show integrity.
Fred Flinstone – what a totally appropriate handle you have chosen for yourself and your soon to be extinct dinosaur of a club.
The decision on Falkirk was made well before the end of that particular season, it was not brought into to stop Aberdeen from going down. But why let the facts get in the way.
If it takes Aberdeen 780 years to pay off the £15m how long would it take RFC(IA/IL) to pay off the £134m you owe. Ah, I forgot you’ve gone bust and won’t be paying anything back.
Lets hope that come Friday RFC will be a footnote in the history books. You’re odious club will be mentioned in the same breath as slavery and small pox. Good riddance to bad rubbish you hun mink.
Aberdeen did not cheat! the now defunct team formally known as rangers did for many years and it is because of their cheating that scottish football is in turmoil. Supporters of the team no more really dont get it all the trophies won during the time of your cheating are tainted and of course anyone who disagrees with your take on things comes from a different religious background.
But I thought you did not care that no one liked you!! You are bigots, go away we dont want you in fact no one does.
Anyway this is no other teams fault othere than whats their name again?
I dont see what this article has to do with Falkirk or Rangers, but for anyone remotely interested in knowing the facts about the reasons why Falkirk failed to qualify for promotion, this is a good start.
Guys don’t listen to Fred he belongs to the past, he can only love things are exstrinct.
Well done dons fans for this initiative and other fans around scotland will compliment you by copying your idea.
On my day I could quite happily join in the eloquent and fact-based badinage exposing the inbred throwback, born on the day the gene pool attendants were on holiday. However I will content myself with a small smirk of satisfaction and a hearty good wish to the loathsome slithering amoeba in choosing a football team to support which is not a disgrace to competitive sport and 21st century social values now that the lying cheating tax-dodging bigoted right wing cultural monolith is in the ‘tits up’ position. Next time, to paraphrase Bertie Wooster, try walking the full length of the counter before making your choice you soap-dodging cretinous hun loser.
Some cracking sectarian comments there guys, you do yourself proud.
Actually you will find that Rangers are not dead. We will rise up again whilst the likes of Aberdeen drop down due to their own financial problems etc.
It seems lately that the First Minister has been attending a lot of various entertainment events, presumably at tax payers expense. For instance flying off to America to attend the premiere of a cartoon and more recently spotted at the Wimbledon Mens Final. I’m sure he will have great reasons why the taxpayer had to fund all these trips.
Sectarian? No we are Aberdeen we stand free from that nonsense and of course cheating by the way! Enjoy your trip to Peterheed on Aug 11th for your first 3rd division fixture 🙂 Actually I feel sorry for the Blue Toon having to put up with your bigoted, filth singing “fans”, just a pity the AWPR won’t be built so we don’t need to smell you. Having said that if your commenting on this fine Voice you are probably one of those Old Firm glory hunters that live in our fair city but don’t support your local team. GIRFUY
FYI, I was born and bred in Rutherglen but moved to Aberdeen for work reasons. Does this mean I should now support Aberdeen FC? This being the case should all Aberdeen fans who move to Glasgow, London, Manchester etc should forget about their original team and begin to support the teams in their new location? what a strange idea.
Repeated use of the sectarian word H*n is quite frequent among the Dandy Dons – not clever and on a par with using equally offensive words to describe people race or religion..
Anyway, it seems my prediction has came true very quickly – Inverness Caley being the first. Hopefully it will be another club who are living way above their means who get into serious trouble – how about Aberdeen FC?
I shall continue to support my team through thick and thin, and would also like to thank my Loyal Brother in Lodge 701 for their continued support and look forward to meeting up with all you guys when we visit our brothers in Peterhead.
If a local business man made this course no one would have batted an eyelid, as it’s Mr Trump the local socialists are up in arms.
I’ve been out for a look and the course has improved that stretch of coastline a million percent, it really is a brilliant course.
Look at the benefits for the entire community as well, as well as many jobs being created how much money will pour into hotels, restaurants, shops, taxi drivers, airport bookings etc etc, a couple of people having their view changed is a price well worth paying for the local economy.
Well done Mr Trump, ignore the vocal minority the silent majority are behind you and thank you for bringing this opportunity to Aberdeenshire.
Sue – hi. After you posted your update here I noticed yesterday’s Evening Express had an article on the sign at the entrance to the estate. Seems it’s not quite in conformance with the planning permission (like the car park). I thought I’d just do a wee analysis of this wonderful sign, at http://helpgov.wordpress.com/2012/07/14/whats-in-a-sign-the-new-trump-golf-course/. Enjoy.
There is little point in arguing with anyone like Paul. He doesn’t appear to have much intelligence or education which is why any explanation about dynamic dunes or Sites of Special Scientific interest are a complete mystery to him. He’s only heard about “tree huggers” from his tabloid- most likely the Sun- and obviously doesn’t realise that this issue has nothing to do with trees!
Fred, you’re still not getting it are you? If any the teams that you want to go bust actually go bust then so be it; they should have looked after themselves better. It’s hardly a “prediction”, the biggest team in Scotland has gone so spectacularly bust that it doesn’t exist any more so it’s not a surprise that there are others skating on thin ice.
Advice for the 11th Aug btw: remember to go straight on up King Street, nae turning right, that’s SPL only.
How can anyone get worked up about something so trivial??
Allan,
I believe Paul’s point was why do people moan for the sake of moaning, the article details every little negative but doesn’t once mention the positives, i.e employment and money for the local economy.
George – signs are not trivial, they tell you a lot. This one was given planning permission for a certain size and is 83% bigger than approved. That’s either careless (=incompetence) or deliberate (=couldn’t care less, the rules are for someone else not me). A bit like someone being given permission to build a 4-bedroom house next to you and suddenly it’s 7-bedrooms. And I wasn’t getting ‘worked up’ I gave an entirely rational analysis of the thing – read my blog post if you haven’t.
I had a look at some picture online – looks pretty good if you ask me! So what if he wants to hide a couple of ugly houses. I’m sure we would all like to do that to improve our views!
“… a leading geomorphologist yesterday insisted that building the landmark so close to the “inherently unstable” coast could still prove fatal for Trump’s creation.
Dr Jim Hansom, from the School of Geographical and Earth Sciences at Glasgow University, explained that the defences will divert the water elsewhere, causing problems at other areas of the course.”
He told the Scottish Sunday Express: “The third green is eroding at the mouth of Blairton Burn, that area has been eroding for many years.
“The Trump organisation has gone ahead and protected about 250 metres of foreshore but if you protect one part of the shore, you automatically create erosion at other parts of the shore. Basically you’re be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
“It has an instantaneous impact – the shoreline is already eroding and it’s only going to get worse.
“From a sustainable point of view, the course should be designed to avoid those areas of erosion by building it further from the foreshore but that’s what Trump refused to do.”
He added: “Trump might well have built the best course in the world, I don’t know, but it is far too close to a coastal ledge that is inherently unstable.
“And it is not going to be helped by protecting bits that are already eroding, that’s the paradox. The erosion will appear elsewhere, along his own dune system and on to his own golf course.”
Meanwhile, fellow experts are predicting that “catastrophic” sandstorms could cover tees, greens and fairways in heaps of sand.
According to Andy Wightman, a researcher who specialises in land issues, the one-time dynamic dunes could continue to move north-wards despite efforts to stabilize them.
The analyst explained: “This is a living dune system which has moved half a kilometre in 40 years. Trump has went in and basically destroyed the most mobile part of it, added lots of Marram grass and sealed it all up.”
According to Mr Wightman, the course has already experienced “large blowings of sand”, including one last December which left the grass covered in an inch of sand.
He continued: “In a place like St Andrews you have to clear fairways very rarely because it is such a stable system, but Menie is such a dynamic and moving system, it will have to be done quite a lot.
“There is also the possibility that you have a catastrophic event which could smother several greens. You’d have to go in there with diggers, reform it and relay turf.
“It is not a place he should have built a golf course.”
Similarly, Jonathan Hughes, the Director of Conservation at the Scottish Wildlife Trust, said Trump had “ignored the laws of nature” when he built the course.
He added: “It wasn’t just the planning laws which were ignored during the building of this golf course, more worryingly for Donald Trump, the laws of nature were ignored too.
“Until they were tampered with, these rare dunes were highly mobile and will continue to shift, change and move, at least along the eroding coastal fringe.
“Not only has this destroyed the scientific interest at the site, it has also condemned his ground staff to endless battles with sand blowing in from the beach.
“We predict that on days when the south-easterly winds are strong, there could be several tonnes of sand dumped on the fairways, greens and tees.”
A spokesperson for Trump International Golf Links yesterday dismissed the claims as “complete and utter nonsense”, adding: “We built the course with the country’s leading environmental scientists, architects and engineers – nobody knows the land or golf course construction better than we do.”
You’ve just pasted more evidence of loony scare mongering tree huggers getting involved in something because they don’t like the golf course owner, are they really worried about Mr Trumps staff and all that sand they’ll have to clear?? lol!
Of course they’re not, they’re attempting to sway their target audience into believing the whole thing is a disaster in the making.
Please roll out the same “experts” for the Union terrace debate, you know, the same one’s who are going on about flooding and the loss of tree’s and rare habitat, these “experts” are good for a soundbite in any case where the socialists get a bee in their bonnet about a development.
Fact is the course is built and it has got great reviews in its first week, already the Scottish Open is being talked about for 2014, how many Millions will that bring into the local community??
Tree huggers should be grateful that their benefit money will be safe with these type of businesses opening up in the area.
Both of your comments above show a considerable lack of understanding of the facts, first personally I am a resident at Menie and see the facts of the destruction most every day, second you talk of money and jobs comi g into the area. If you watch ‘you’ve been trumped’ you will see the ONLYindependant economic review of the project which describes it as ‘hopelessly optimistic’ etc in other words pure BS as for the jobs I was told directly by George Sorial on a tour of the course three weeks or so ago that a total of seventy people were employed on the estate. That will include the self employed caddies, in other words there are no significant jobs. Please open your eyes and look at the facts and not the hype. If you want to talk to me directly please do so, most people know how to get hold of me and I’m sure AV would assist if you require.
Aye, so we’re supposed to be grateful for the opportunity to get a zero-contract job carting around rich tourists golf clubs and spitting in their dinners? Patronizing nonsense. Just like the BS they were spouting about the UTG car-park creating thousands of jobs. Do they think we’re thick? Of course they do.
There’s plenty great golf courses in Scotland without having to fellate Trump’s ego and ruin our country’s greatest asset – its natural beauty and environment – just because w**kers like Paul and George want to putt around with Yank millionaires like they’re in the same league? Paul and George patronize us, Trump patronizes them, and I for one don’t want any part of their stupid wee game. I want our citizens and our land rights to be respected.
It isn’t just the jobs on the estate, it’s the jobs created by all the industry that will service the golfers and the estate, that number will be huge. You and your neighbours have made your point but I’d rather look at this course than the ram shackled old farm buildings etc that some of your ilk choose to have on their properties . Progress is good.
If you really want to moan about something worthwhile that’s destroying our wildlife and habitat please start campaigning about the wind farm monstrosities, Calum claims he’s interested in natural beauty and environment yet puts a beautiful golf course before those stains on our horizons on his objections list.
I wonder what the articles on here would look like if Mr Trump was the man behind putting these uneconomical wind mills on our gorgeous coastline!
If the answer to the problem with unsold tickets is reducing the size of the sporting venues, could G4S’s problem with an insufficient number of security guards not be solved by asking those that they have recruited to bring a friend?
The proposed offshore turbines are for test purposes only, not for commercial energy generation. This means your charge of “uneconomical” is wrong, as that is not the purpose of the development. They should, however, help to make future wind energy developments more economical as experiments are conducted, results examined and decisions reached using these data as a basis. I think I may go and hug a land-based one.
A large number of my ex colleagues will now be looking for work, which saddens me immensely. I started my career in this department and left after 11 happy years there.
However, a combination of falling sales, slumping ad revenues and the continued growth in digital has made this an inevitability and indeed a great shame. My thoughts are with all those who will be having to find work. Sadly, i remember someone at AJL actually stating that “digital would never catch on”, or words to that effect.
Good job Mike. Thank you for wading through the waffle of the TIF buisness case that is designed to obscure the fact that the project is not economically viable. I really hope the council show sense and don’t sadle the city with further bad debt. It makes me ask the question, are our elected representatives equiped/qualified to do the job? From councillors to MP’s?
Thanks for that correction. See reference 2. The council said:
“The cinema closed for regular film showings in the 1960s but was used for occasional rock concerts (including the Rolling Stones and Tina Turner) until 1998 when it was mothballed”.
Maybe it stopped showing regular films, only occasional films from the 60s. Maybe they just got it wrong.
Suzanne for Provost! Sadly, I stay in the Shire and my opinion is ignored, but, with folk like Suzanne on the side of the Gardens, they don’t need anyone else.
Linda Smith
Living in a council house I have often had to deal with Aberdeen City Council. And I can say (with evidence) that they (and their staff) are the most underhanded, devious, dishonest and corrupt local authority there is.
Good article – I had actually forgotten the extent of the enormity of the destruction of the Capitol. One of the disgraces of Aberdeen is that it lacks an auditorium fit for present day demographics and the Capitol at 2200 seats came close to purpose, on many occasions. (Music Hall 1300) Why did they lose sight of the fact that concerts there would retain people in the city centre, now (rightly) regarded as such a priority? Another big cinema, and again an auditorium by definition, is the Kingsway which I recall is even bigger. Aberdeen needs to take a proper comparison of the concert acts that come as far as Dundee and no further, by the way.
That was very interesting and brought back old memories.
I walked, paddled and crawled the entire length of the Denburn in 1981-82 from Kingswells to the Upper Dock and published it as a series in Leopard. Didn’t have a map and wondered where it would take me. I’ve been thinking of re-running it as a blog in the near future, each entry accompanied by an update. There’s been a lot of changes.I have to confess I turned back somewhere under HM Theatre, too many rats for my liking. Did the last bit on foot. Best wishes,
Diane, I remember those Leopard articles and would love to read them again. If you are thinking of re-publishing online, I am certain they will prove to be extremely interesting to those interested in heritage and its preservation rather than That Thing They’re Voting On Today. David
The ref dept of the library has a complete copy of the articles, photocopied from Leopard. It’s a great read and deserves to be republished and updated.
I would love to read your articles, Diane, I’ve been interested in the Den Burn since I heard a story from a bloke I worked with at Hazelhead som 35 years ago, and I realised it was still there, under the modern landscape.
Jim.
Good story, Jake. Makes me wish I’d taken you up on the offer of a re-enactment last year. How nice would it be to see water flowing through the gardens again? Sadly unlikely.
If the referendum had been run fairly, then I would have agreed with you but .. to quote from the article above :-
“There was an unofficial group campaigning for the City Garden Project; and they bombarded the public with literature which I personally found misleading.
“I did try to complain to the Electoral Commission and to Advertising Standards, but neither could intervene in a referendum. There were glossy brochures, newspapers, print and radio advertising placed by this group which far exceeded the value that the official groups were allowed to spend. There were problems with the official material as well; the Green Party’s statement was cut off in the paper brochures for instance. “
Commonly known as excuses for bad losers, I saw probably more anti CGP propoganda than pro, look at this site for example, 100% anti CGP and this is a “independant” site.
The anti people will get their wish today and imo it will set Aberdeen back years, who wants to invest in a City where a village mentality is rife.
George, whilst Aberdeen Voice welcomes your input and regards your opinion as valid as anyone elses, We would like to point out that Aberdeen Voice as an organisation does not have an opinion on UTG/CGP, and the reason you are seeing an imbalance is simply because almost all articles contributed to AV are from people who are against the development.
We do not censor, over-edit nor refuse to publish articles based on the writer’s opinion provided the content fulfills criteria which all publications are bound by.
Perhaps if other publications and media outlets operated similarly, Aberdeen Voice would not be the only/go-to option for writers whose views arise from a particular band of the political spectrum. Until this changes, I’m afraid our unbiased, independent publication is just gonna have to lean one way or another.
….. Anyway, just wanted to point this out ( as I believe I have previously ) …. carry on .. 🙂
George,
Are you aware that the first democratic vote was the public consultation vote which was conveniently
brushed aside by Sir Ian and his ACSEF cronies simply because THAT vote did not give them the result they wanted
I think if you seriously look into anti’s stance you shall find they are not against the Gardens having a makeover but what is being considered is not a makeover. Anyway the idea that The Granite Web
is going the rejuvenate the city centre is plain bonkers.Union Street is dead simply because shopping habits have changed and more and more people are shopping online or going to places like Union Square. A street full of financial institutions, night clubs ,coffee shops and charity shops is not condusive
to attracting people back to it. Building the Granite Web shall not alter that fact and the rest of the planned scheme I’m afraid does not add up. This is not just my opinion but is that of a London economist
And there we have, a city dying on its arse throws away the only real opportunity for saving it.
Have you people seen the state of the city centre, its populated by junkies and alkies with businesses folding and shops empty everywhere, and we throw away the only real regeneration option on offer.
Last one turn out the lights, a dark day for Aberdeen and democracy.
Kelly, how do you feel about the following since you suggested we couldn’t afford the £92 million?
“Councillors voted 22-20 against the project instead supporting a proposal the Independent Alliance Group, led by councillor Marie Boulton, to use the TIF money to regenerate Union Street, the Arts Centre, the Music Hall, the Lemon Tree and the Mither Kirk.”
“They even respect democracy in Russia these days.”
What did I miss? Did Putin offer to send Pussy Riot over to perform at the City Garden Project’s opening?
A non-binding referendum intended to gauge public opinion produced a vote of 45,301 for the City Garden Project design and 41,175 against it. As a consultation exercise, it was far from being a decisive result….and in such circumstances, I think most impartial adjudicators would probably regard it as fair to take some account of the imbalance created by the use (on one side) of an expensive PR campaign.
For whatever reason, the pro CGP businessmen who instructed that expensive PR campaign didn’t think the imbalance mattered. The general consensus among them perhaps being “the ends we want justifies the means.” However, if you’re going to very clearly benefit from inequality one minute (when factors like cash flow and the political make-up of the local Council are in your favour) you’re in a weak position to complain about inequity when a new Council, one less supportive of your aims, is democratically elected.
To pursue that argument regardless is hypocrisy. When you’re feeling unassailable you might think “who cares about democracy? Getting what I want is all that matters.” Now suddenly, this week, democracy becomes something that matters. The problem is, if you’ve never cared much for issues like fairness, equality and democracy because you’ve never had to, you’re probably going to come a cropper when you try to participate in debates about these concepts.
If the majority of Aberdonians were strongly in support of the CGP, then they should have voted a pro-CGP Council in – and then the plans would have been accepted by the Council. That’s democracy. I know it’s disappointing for anybody who feels they didn’t get the best democracy money can buy.
The people who clicked on a link and clicked “vote for the city garden project” months back, when the Big Partnership PR company told them to, evidently weren’t sufficiently interested to participate in the local Elections. You can blame them for that, or you can blame democracy for requiring people to put on a coat and visit a polling station, rather than just clicking on a couple of links….but to argue that this outcome isn’t democratic shows a lack of understanding about what democracy is, and what it requires of all of us.
Funny you should mention London, I was there on holiday last week, Trafalger square and Piccadily circus were both mobbed with people, if you create a natural gathering place people will come and spend time there, in turn the surrounding areas will thrive. This anti progress movement in Aberdeen is strangling us, it’s the dour “nothing wrong with it” attitude that has got us where we are.
Now the Full Council has thrown the plan out, maybe Sir Ian will put his donation to something the city needs. the “Sir Ian Wood Cancer Centre” sounds pretty good to me.
Thanks for this. I saw the P&J article on the proposed redevelopment calling the current building an ‘eyesore’ which made me really angry. The building is amazing, the only problem is it not being used. The last thing we need is another beautiful granite building being replaced by a generic corporate office block.
Amazing that this long article fails to even mention the central issues – (1) the public finance implications (debt, borrowing), (2) the effective transfer of civic assets and common good land to a private company and (3) the loss of the unique Victorian gardens we already have. The author seems to assume that any change is bound to be for the better – not so!
Aberdeen Voice is of course inclusive and a forum for everyone, but apart from some of Amanda-Jaied McCahery’s infactual opinions. I had no idea Union Terrace Gardens had a seedy reputation or was known for, “harbouring many of the city’s undesirables”. Perhaps Ms McCahery is refering to Councillor Donnelly, who was seen on Wednesday.
You mean to say that some people complain that Democracy has been killed?
Surely Democracy was “hung” when the result of the first consultation was ignored… The body was then “drawn” when the CGT ignored the public’s “best-worst-choice” of the winter garden, in favour of the concrete, sorry, granite web, and it was finally “quartered” when the referendum expenses were “capped”, except for an unofficial group which spent a fortune on glossy brochures with fuzzy pictures and specious financial arguments…
It seems to me that this week’s result was the resurrection of democracy, not it’s death!
Just a pity the editorial team here have chosen to bury it away from the front page, they’ve even kept articles from last week ahead of this very relevant post.
It’s simple George. There are always 5 featured articles on the carousel. All contributors of articles are asked to provide at least one good quality picture. If the picture is adaptable for use on the carousel, and there are no copyright issues, then the article can be featured.
For today’s release, only two articles were accompanied by images suitable for the carousel, therefore two articles remain from Monday, and one from last Friday…. No burying, no bias.
However, it’s a shame you chose to bury your support of a new writer by dedicating more words in your post to drawing attention to your own jaundiced view of this publication.
I enjoyed reading your story Jake, as a child I would walk past part of the burn when I went to school. At that time being interested in spooky places I had also wanted to explore the undergound tunnel, but never did. I would love to walk right to the ending of the burn.
Vis-a-vis the Dons, let’s do some accuracy, shall we?
The plans have been in place for some time for Cove Rangers (a private company) to develop Calder Park as a Highland League football ground. Aberdeen FC (another private company in which I am a shareholder and season ticket holder) would use this facility to train.
It seems that the building of this facility, funded as I recall by Stewart Milne, Aberdeen FC chairman and Mr Bert McIntosh of McIntosh Plant Hire, Birchmoss, Echt, a regular benefactor to AFC, would allow Aberdeen FC access, a condition of planning, it is reported, to its proposed new stadium on the fringes of Loirston Loch, roughly to the south of Calder Park.
The Council, democratically elected and inheriting a debt of over £600m, seems to have decided (the meeting was understandably held in private for reasons of confidentiality) to take control of this land which it owns. This presumably means that a previous administration loosed control of an asset which belongs to the citizens of Aberdeen, where I am a Council Tax payer. I didn’t know that and I’m not sure, not having all the facts before me, if I’m happy with that.
This looks like a council re-asserting control over its assets, possibly in an attempt to realise their market value, quite a commendable action in today’s straitened times.
Councillor Young has pointed out that Aberdeen FC has planning permission to develop a stadium on the Loirston site and suggests that they go ahead and do so. It is well-known that the stadium development plans are in limbo due, it is rumoured, to the Club still having a funding shortfall in terms of the £30+m required to build the stadium.
I find the reaction of the Club somewhat hysterical in saying that the plans are dead. Might it be a convenient way of deflecting criticism from the current board’s inability to find the wherewithal to fund their ambitious plans?
Aberdeen City Council’s ruling coalition has taken a kicking this week despite its being crystal clear that the vote on Union Terrace Gardens was a manifesto commitment that would be honoured.
It is convenient then, when those who wish to lambast elected representatives for doing what they said they would do, conflate the two discrete issues and point fingers in what is possibly the wrong direction.
It looks simple to me – the Council will consider offers for the land in question, but at market rates. It is then up to those who wish to own it to find the money necessary to effect that purchase.
Cove Rangers’ silence on this is remarkable, but given rumours of that club’s struggle to find the funding necessary to make the move, that may not be surprising.
The article writer has conveniently forgotten that a consultation about whether or not to redevelop the gardens as per Sir Ian Woods proposals was ignored when the result was no! She has also failed to mention the fact that any concerns she may have had would have been resolved by the Peacock proposal which had funding in place and was scuppered by Sir Ian Wood sticking his nose into the affair. She has also ignored the fact that the scheme which was put forward was not the one the public voted for! Also ignored was the fact that the amount of money thrown at the referendum by the advocates for the new design and the misinformation regarding the Tif funding and amount of jobs the scheme would bring to the city and the fact that the booklet produced to give all sides opinions left out parts of the document sent in by at least one side who wanted to retain UTG. The council that was at the time also was biased toward the scheme and set up a video of it in the Art Gallery. The local press were also biased in favour. These things would not have been acceptable in a political election and it is my view that were the scales tipped more evenly then the people would have voted no. Anyway the council elections were about to be held not long afterwards and Labour immediately said that they would be standing on a no to the CGP mandate and they ended up running the council. Therefore IMHO the last vote which was the council election was the fairest vote and the one that should stand. I personally use the gardens and am in favour of restoring them in a sympathetic way but apart from the fact that to say that raising a garden will make all our problems disappear is nonesense there is so much wrong with that design……it is horrendous and full of nooks and crannies for undesirables to gather, dangerous in icy winters, will certainly not be a haven of peace and tranquility as we have now! As for Calder Park…..it was supposed to be for Cove Rangers……..why if AFC need to use it for their training ground, should they not have put in a planning application for the whole thing at the same time? Why did they not incorporate training facilities into their stadium at Loiriston and why don’t they do so and why not if they are having problems getting finance don’t they share Loiriston with Cove Rangers? As far as I’m aware they don’t have reserve matches when not playing at home so share with Cove and incorporate a training facility……however if you went for planning permission for Loiriston knowing it couldn’t operate without Cove getting their stadium at Calder Park then that was very bad planning indeed!
You appear to have not noticed that the SNP polled more votes than Labour, you also appear to have forgot that local elections are not decided on a one issue mandate.
The only fair vote was the single issue referendum, we were all asked if we wanted the CGP, the people of Aberdeen spoke and voted for it, we’re all more than capable of making an informed judgement and we did, the arguments from your side are pure sour grapes, you and others are ignoring democracy, something I never thought I’d live to see in my Country.
Labour will get hammered in the next local election, the majority who never bother with local politics as all sides are self serving fools will turn out in huge numbers to get this undemocratic idiots out of office.
Local councils shouldn’t even be run by politicians but that’s a different argument for another day.
Just a note for the those considering following the Denburn: The amount of hard surfaces draining into the Denburn means that it can go from a trickle to a flood very quickly. Events at the weekend demonstrated just how fast this can happen, and I would be extremely wary about entering the culverts. If they block, as apparently happened this weekend, you could face the prospect of having to fight your way back against the current, in a confined space with rising water. Not a pleasant thought.
Ignacio, there have been at least two instances in recent years of the Denburn Car Park flooding to frightening levels caused by the Denburn backing up, so your advice is timely. The issue was also one which was highlighted when the currently-mothballed (but let’s maintain vigilance, shall we?) “plans” for CGP were put forward. The increase in areas of hard non-porous surface and concomitant swift rainfall run-off might have seen the circumstances which led to these floods and those at the weekend become a regular and if not hazardous, costly occurrence for those further up the watercourse.
Re Calder Park, as I understand it, having turned down all oil company sponsorship 20 years ago, AFC (aka Milne) are now trying to get hold of public money. Milne could put his hand in his pocket, or how about the Sir Ian Wood Community Stadium? As AV has pointed out. Loch of Loirston is not a fit place for a stadium due to wildlife and lack of public transport (with or without a new bypass). Labour have obviously looked at the ACC books and thought “enough is enough”. I have never voted Labour but good for them!
Where do you suggest Aberdeen football club build the new stadium? I’ll pass your answer on to Mr Milne.
We don’t want to be moving wildlife 50 yards to the side so it will need to be a brownfield site, obviously next to a railway station.
Very interesting that Mr Milne turned down oil sponsorship, I’ve been an Aberdeen fan for 40 years and that’s the first I’ve heard of that, could you please pass me a link to this news?
Pity Labour didn’t look at the books before deciding to spend £62 Million doing up the new council office and giving £24 Million to the AECC to bail it out!
On Calder Park, it would seem from an interview published yesterday that the Council took back control of the lease from Cove Rangers since, after 12 years of discussion and negotiation, the Calder Park facility was meant to be completed by 01 September 2012. They’ve got 55 hours from now until midnight on Saturday then. I doubt it’ll be ready for next Saturday’s match.
The interview also stated that if Calder Park isn’t developed, the Dons can still fulfill the planning condition of alternative access via this route but that they will have to pay for it. I am one of around 7000 season ticket holders and one of around 15000 shareholders in AFC. Council taxpayers, feeling the pinch due to the recession, outnumber us by 7 to 1 and their needs, like it or not, have to come first. Still no statement from Cove Rangers or from the representatives of the ward or those who formerly represented the ward throughout earlier episodes of this long-running saga. That silence says much, I think. They’re skint although still able to offer Mike McKenzie, probably the Highland League’s best player, enough of a contract to entice him from Deveronvale.
I agree with George on oil company sponsorship not having been offered to my knowledge. I also agree with Karen on the craziness of the location at Loirston both from a transport viewpoint and environmentally.
“Where do you suggest Aberdeen football club build the new stadium?”
I think between the chip on Milne’s shoulder and the petted lip on display recently, there’s enough space for a stadium, training facilities, car and bus parking and a load of shite quality housing.
Anyway, they have a stadium. They can always ground-share with Inverness Caley until they tart it up.
Very mature response from one of the resident socialists who frequent this site and who hate all wealth creators, always some rich guys fault, no ideas to create wealth or to stimulate growth, always a negative.
Lets just give it all up and go back to living in caves.
George, I have no problem with wealth creators. I do have a problem, however, with those who would create wealth for themselves by exploiting public assets, especially when such individuals are usually among those who denigrate and decry public services and servants. Getting counil-owned Calder Park on the cheap would be one such stunt and I’m delighted that a far bigger attempted purloining of prime city centre public land, with a bribe of £55m was halted last week.
Just keep repeating those things many times a day and you and others will really start to believe there was nothing wrong in ignoring the referendum, sorry “non binding referendum” as the anti people now call it, we all know the truth of course but you and others just keep brainwashing yourselves.
It’s almost as if some anti people are now feeling guilty about ignoring democracy.
If Mike Shepherd and Suzanne and co had refused to be at the referendum vote because they believed it to be biased then their claims now would stack up much better, as it was they virtually drooled over the count and only spat the dummy when the result came out on the wrong side for them.
Jim the P&J seems to term everything old an eyesore. I remember going to my first gig there with my parents in the 80’s. It is such a shame as I think Aberdeen sorely needs a medium sized venue but I am worried that it is all going to either be knocked flat, become a gym or end up like the Tivoli on guild street.
My fear is that the architecture of Aberdeen is slowly being sterilsed into a bland mediocraty of unispired blocks of concrete
I believe there has been some recent investigation into bringing culverted inner-city waterways back to the surface. SNH were keen to restore lost rivers and burns and were looking for suitable sites. Resurrecting the Den Burn as part of any future redevelopment should not be discounted. The flooding problems could be addressed at the same time although it might mean turning the back of Belmont Street into a flood plain, not too different from its usual weekend state.
It is factually inaccurate to say that Labour secured a majority in the local elections. They are the single largest party (although they came second in the number of votes) but are in coalition with the Tories and independents.
The pro CGP parties did secure more votes and seats than Labour.
The vote against the CGP was secured because two Lib Dem councillors – elected on a manifesto which said the Lib Dems would respect the referendum result – voted against. Perhaps the self-appointed Democracy Watcher would like to investigate that.
Hireton, your statement re.the Lib Dems is factually inaccurate. The Lib Dems are quick to state that they do not operate a whip system, so any pledge as a party to ‘respect the referendum result’ is meaningless as well as ambiguous. As it was, 3 LD candidates went public with their personal opposition to the CGP, and those 3 were among the 5 who were successful in the election.
I see George has shown what a hypocrite he is, he only compliments writers who say what suits his own view, without checking if their arguments hold water. Tell you what George, why don’t you go investigate your a**e just to ascertain it’s not actually your elbow.
( No offence Hireton, but it’s no great compliment getting praise from a guy who supports the English Defence League. At least it seems as if you read the article before challenging it’s substance. I’m not sure George actually gets beyond the title. )
Could you please explain how “the people of Aberdeen fought back and won”? this seems strange considering the referendum came out for the project. I think you will find that there will be another vote by the councillors and the true feelings of the people will come through – otherwise they will not be councillors much longer.
Personally I thought it was a great project, hi jacked by the usual tree huggers and Johnny come latelys.
A typically one sided point of view of the whole debacle. Where are the points about a democratic decision being made by the public and being overturned by the local council. you might not have liked the result, but a result it was!
[Blocked by Moderator]… Sorry George, we can allow a wide range of opinion in our comments, but direct, dubious and unsubstantiated accusations of a specific nature are considered defamatory and open to prosecution. For Aberdeen Voice to publish would be to accept liability for same.
Feel free to reword your comment with this in mind. Thanks.
The local council IS democracy. The last lot shat it close to an election and weaseled out of making a decision and left it to “the people” who were then bombarded with glossy promises of deliveries from on high of sugar candy mountains and Moray Cup fountains. Councillors are paid nowadays and failed to do their job.
Check out what you were voting for in February. The vote was about whether or not to continue examining proposals to allow the second choice Granite Web design to be built. There were and are NO plans just artists’ impressions of woolly, naive concepts.
At least apprise yourself of some facts before commenting. It gives any point you may try to make a bit more credible.
We can’t afford it (there’s a recession on and the real public spending cuts in Scotland have yet to be implemented) and the business case wouldn’t even make it past the desk of a Channel 5 comedy commissioning meeting, it being so far-fetched, vague and more full of holes than a second hand dartboard.
Twofaced, Freddy, have you conveniently forgot that the public rejected the project in the first (and only fairly conducted) consultation back in 2010? Or does ‘democracy’ only count when it goes your way by a small margin swung by massive pressure from one side with unlimited spending power after multiple attempts? What about the design vote where the public vote was also ignored because it didn’t go the way big business behind this whole scam wanted? Sure that’s democratic, pretend it didn’t happen! Or that none of these votes was legally binding except the councils rejection of the project? Democracy certainly isn’t well served by uninformed and uneducated hypocrites like yourselves. Freddy-come-lately, by all means inform us all about how CGP was rejected in 2010.. didn’t think so!
Excellent way to win an argument… hurl insults!
I am not a Chav nor a moron. I would say I am quite informed and certainly educated However if you want to resort to petty name calling by all means knock yourself out.
The Cyard, I have read the business case, and forgive me but I am more likely to trust the findings of a suitably qualified experienced person reporting on these matters than somebody totally opposed to the project. There is a shortage of suitably qualified or experienced staff in Aberdeen, and we need to attract these staff if Aberdeen is to continue to prosper. This requires significant investment in Infrastructure which the TIF was going to do. it wasn’t just about the City Garden Project. Yes it might have been a big part of it but so was other projects like the St Nicholas House redevelopment and the Art Gallery redevelopment.
You’ll probably tell me that these are just big business’ creating more profit for themselves but unfortunately the council have little or no money, so the only investment is going to from Business.
Aye, 3-1 on aggregate. UTG was 2-0 ahead before CGP paid a fortune to bring the score back to 2-1 but Crockett sealed it with a late third from a Boulton cross to relegate CGP for good.
Councillors are held accountable for decisions taken, electors, or voters in a loaded referendum are not. The new régime has taken responsibility. The last lot, as I said above, shat it, shirked their responsibility and organised a one-sided referendum on the orders of their masters in Holyrood, who would be spitting blood if Westminster interfered in something that they hold dear.
For god sake people – the Capitol is the last remaining ‘icon’ of cinema history in Aberdeen. I used to play the wonderful Compton organ there when I was a kid. I grew up in Aberdeen and this building should not be allowed to fall. I will do everything in my power to rescue it but especially the organ which is such a rare instrument. One of the last to be in its original setting in the whole of the UK. PLEASE PLEASE anyone who wants to help, get in touch with me. I am at chasdavidson@hotmail.com !!!!!!!
This article has got it spot on. For the last two generations, two attempts have been made to secure this prime city centre location by the business community. Their last attempt was particularly nasty. As previously said, the original consultation resulted in a “no” vote. Then there was the further consultation, where models of the various proposals were put to the public. Again, their choice was disregarded. Finally we had the very one-sided referendum, full of dubious assertions (disproved by a leading economist) and a vast imbalance in funding between the two sides, to ensure they won the day. The business community should hang their heads in shame on this one. Labour made the cancellation of this project a major plank in their manifesto and received increased support primarily because of this. The percentage of the citizenry voting in the Local Government elections was much greater than that of the “referendum,” – around 20% participated, as I recollect. Labour should be congratulated for dumping this project, potentially saving the city from plunging further in to debt. At the end of the day, no one actually knew what the finished article would be, given the “artists impressions” were totally misleading along with the fact that no firm decisions had been put forward for the content of the “garden”. No one, with any sense, buys a pig in a poke.
You have your facts wrong, the percentage turnout was much bigger in the referendum than the local election, I believe around 50% of the citizens voted in the referendum whilst the council election saw a poor turnout of less than 20%.
I do also hope you realise that Labour pushed ahead with the plans to borrow the money, they actually asked for £92 Million to spruce the place up a bit, this is something the CGP opponents have went strangely quiet on, only a couple weeks ago they were screaming the project would bankrupt the City. The government have told the Council they have little chance of getting the money.
Where does that leave us now? Well we won’t be seeing any investment in our City centre, Mr Wood has pulled his £50 Million off the table and the government are going to say no to the £92 Million, the new rates money from the estates popping up in BOD and Dyce will now go straight to the government to no doubt be spent in the Central belt and Aberdeen will slide further into decline.
I can’t help but think that Labour and the anti CGP people just didn’t think this one through, the one glimmer of light comes from a comment from Cllr McCaig in todays EE, “It is almost inevitable that the City Garden Project will come back to council within the next 12 Months” .
We can only hope for the sake of our City that this comment comes true.
There are many things I love about Scotland, but the SNP is not one of them and it is clear the SNP do not love Scotland. Aberdeen will not forgive the Scottish National Party councillors for the damage they have done to our city.
I suggest you pick up a copy of last nights Evening Express, the council have pressed ahead already with the £92 Million TIF application, infact the government already have the paperwork, hence if we get the money we’ll still be £92 Million in debt, the only difference is we won’t get much for our money, a few buildings cleaned up is the aim of our Labour led leaders.
I look forward to you to soon condemning this hastely thought up TIF application, as you say we don’t want our city £92 Million pounds in debt over some “real estate speculation”.
No point in staging a protest or demo in the middle of a desert where there’s nobody to see or hear you and where you can safely be ignored … guess that’s the idea.
Utterly contemptible! This could have a knock-on effect throughout the whole of the UK, as other councils face budget cuts, and seek new revenue streams. If allowed to progress, this could seriously damage the future of public parks.
You reap what you sow Mike, you got the council you wanted, an inept short sighted bunch of people, as Bob Smith says the lunatic may be in charge of the asylum.
Ach, you’ll have to do better than that George. The author of the paper is not a councillor and having known him since schooldays he is definitely not a Labour voter. He also looks after ACSEF’s Management Team (whatever that is). You may also like to read the link quoted in the Voice article which shows that this is an update of an earlier price list.
“However, ever growing demand for use of the City’s Parks and Open
Spaces has taken a toll on the maintenance of these areas, and it
agreed to introduce a pricing structure from 1 April 2012, to contribute
to daily maintenance costs.
Each stand alone event incurs a minimum daily hire charge of £250,
regardless of status – charity, corporate, private or otherwise.
A copy of the 2012/13 pricing structure is included as Appendix 1”
That’s “April”, George.
The elections were in May.
There is very little chance, given that the current administration didn’t get behind their desks until May, then had to divvy up the committee responsibilities and then tread water during the holiday period, that anything this analytical has been produced in that period.
Therefore I don’t think for a moment that this is an initiative originated by the current administration, although given that this isn’t the Labour Party as I grew up with it, I will not be surprised if they support it.
I suggest you read my post again my friend, no where did I mention anything regarding Labour, though they no doubt will be in favour of these charges.
I said you reap what you sow and we have an inept group of people now in charge, they have shunned private money and thrown away the chance of a tif loan, they’ve left themselves little choice but to raise funds from the public directly, they have no other options! We’re out of money!
Regardless on this occasion they may just have got it right, is it unreasonable to charge for a council space being used for something other than personal use.
Great article, Suzanne. That they’ve been allowed to get away with this defies belief. Where are the intrepid investigating journalists of wir local press and other media?
Sheila, there’s a search tab top right on the page. Click this and type in ‘Tullos’ or ‘Tullos Hill’ for previous articles where pictures previous to the carnage have been used. There are not a great many pics, and there are quite a number of articles to wade through … however, here is a link to an article with one of my favourite pics of Tullos Hill before the cull/planting.
I feel sorry for that wee lad Brayden, just a baby and already he is experiencing discrimination. I think I will avoid spending money in a Costa from now on.
Aileen Malone is quite a bad and lazy councillor, (I was surprised she was re elected). But I hope she has to face legal repercussions because of her behaviour.
“Verdict: Newspapers can take any side of an issue they want; that is democracy. However, do you want a paper that gives you one side of an issue, or one that covers all ground?”
The Aberdeen Voice has been the most one sided publication in this whole affair, pot kettle!
At least the local papers gave both viewpoints, the feature writers on here have rammed their personal viewpoints down all readers throats.
How about also canvassing for those duped into voting against the CGP by the Mike Shepherd adverts, in the interests of democracy. I can’t believe the low regard the anti people have on the ability of the Aberdeen people to make an informed decision regarding the gardens, according to them we were all brainwashed by a few adverts on some local radio stations, what a load of biased rubbish, you lost a referendum based on the fact you didn’t get enough votes, stop looking for excuses to explain that away.
Funny you should actually mention the web and the disabled in the same article, my father is wheelchair bound and would love to visit Union terrace gardens in a safe manner, that’s why he voted for it to be raised, he wasn’t swayed by the press or the radio he simply wants to access the gardens in the city centre when he’s shopping on Union Street.
I also feel you do a disservice to disabled people by stating they will be pushed into low paid menial work, especially be bringing the Walkers child into your article, many disabled people excel in school and go on to have very successful careers, why do you doubt the Walkers child may be one of them? I once worked at BP with a gentleman who was paralysed from the neck down, he was a very successful analyst.
Hello George – while I’d made it a rule not to reply to the posts on articles / satirical columns I write (note – this is a satirical column), you seem to be missing some facts evidenced by your post above.
Dame Anne Begg is one of several people I know who visit the gardens in her wheelchair. The entrance is on the north side not far from HMT. The next time your father wants to visit, I, Dame Anne, or members of Common Good Aberdeen will be happy to show him how it can be done.
I don’t believe that you’ve grasped the concept of my linking the mythical, non-existent, unspecified jobs the web’s proponents are promising to create with the way the Government is now trying to force people into work who should not be working. It’s happening to people I know who are incapable of working, but are being pushed into taking menial, low-paid work to hold onto the meagre benefits they get. My friends with special abilities have been able to understand the sarcastic link I am making at the expense of those who would force people unable to work into work, and the massively inflated claim the web will bring thousands of permanent jobs (this figure surely must be including low-paid cleaning, maintenance-type posts – or are we all getting white collar work?). In fact people have asked me to post links to this piece so others can see it.
So if you don’t get what was being alluded to, hope this has helped. Please do take your dad into the gardens – the break the gardens provide from the wind, the fresh air, the sight of people enjoying themselves will do you both good.
My father goes into town with my mother on the bus, due to their ages the walk to the North side is just too far, I also wouldn’t encourage them to be going through the tunnel down there, it’s a well known hang out point for the less desirables in our City.
I also doubt anyone incapable of working is pushed into a job, if their disability allows them then I see no reason why they shouldn’t work, if they are only qualified for low paying jobs then so be it, however I would never class someone’s work as menial, I think you should rephrase that term if you write on this subject again.
The new industrial estates being built right now in Dyce and Bridge of Don will provide a broad spectrum of jobs, from low paid to high, the business rates from these companies would have gone to the TIF loan, instead they will go directly to Central government and will no doubt remain in the Central belt. I have no objection for people wanting to keep the existing gardens but when they twist facts to back up their story then it becomes a problem, the 6500 jobs was based on a report by an independent company, they had no reason to make anything up.
Will the industrial estates attract companies that view Aberdeen as a hard place to do business and a place that has huge traffic problems? That remains to be seen but the recent decisions by our Council will not have made the task easier. I suspect many will view a vibrant Dundee a nicer place to go than a dying Aberdeen.
George, if your father is in a wheelchair, i’m sure he has a bus pass which would also allow your mother to travel for free… if the walk to the North side of the gardens is too far there are a number of buses that go from one side to the other… i’m sure they could manage to use these to transport them both… i access the gardens via the tunnel with my 2 children (one of whom is in a pushchair and the other has learning difficulties) with no problems at all and i can assure you i would not do so if i felt my children or i were at any risk from undesirables… to be honest, i have felt more discomfort at the prospect of walking down union street with my children at times than i ever have at the prospect of entering the gardens. Hope this helps 🙂
Yep! Your column resonates (terrifyingly) with me this week. I had to fill in one of the interminably long forms for ATOS a couple of weeks ago and, if you’ve seen the questions, the criteria they appear to use would make as much sense to a monkey as to a health professional. But, of course we know that it’s not health professionals they use. It’s purely a tick–box exercise and the ‘professionals’ will just have a little chart sitting next to them and if you score over a certain amount (assuming they can do arithmetic) that’s it – you’re stuffed. I got my Macmillan Project Worker to go through the whole thing with me, but I have still heard nothing back. I’m hooked to my feeding pump 15 hours a day and depending on how my throat and every other bit of my body feels, I may have to spend up to another hour a day administering drugs. So, sixteen hours a day. And did I say I sometimes have to be sitting VERY close to a loo? I don’t think any of these factors are taken into account. Dr Bick speaks the truth, I’m sure. One of my friends was working for Triage, one of two companies in this area of the country, contracted by the Government to run the DWP Work Programmes for long-term unemployed. What he told me was just as scary – they had similar targets of getting people off benefits altogether and that they were so pressured that there were NO criteria for deciding who to target. So, if perhaps you’re face didn’t fit with your advisor you were basically f**cked. I don’t know how bad it’s got in Aberdeen yet but it’s nnot going to get better any time soon. Pleased to say that said friend now works with disadvantaged people/families at a charity in the city now. That’s my rant for the morning!
Good morning George – Common Good Aberdeen hosted an event in the Gardens to celebrate the Queen’s Jubilee – Jubilee Tea in UTG! It was a wonderful day, celebrated by young and old, and what was significant was the amount of elderly/ less able, who were using walking aids, or were wheelchair bound, or who had difficulties with sight, or parents with children in buggies/prams, who all came to the gardens via the rear of HMT. I’m not sure what tunnel you are talking about, so perhaps I have misunderstood what you were saying. Yes, I agree, it would be great to have better access from Union Street, but that is something that can be worked for once agreed plans to upgrade the existing gardens are in place, but, as I said, there is reasonable access for all to enjoy the peace and quiet of Union Terrace Gardens.
Ruth, I’m sure in your position you won’t be forced into work, the main targets are those who use the invadility benefits as a lifestyle choice, if they didn’t exist then you wouldn’t be in the position of having to justify yourself to get the benefits.
I’m aware of someone who has pocketed invadility benefits for over 20 years with a “bad back” yet props up the bar in my local pub every day of the week. As a Country we can no longer afford to pay these people. It is quite right that filters are put in place to stop these people, that others have to justify their illness by filling out a form is a small price to pay.
Dorothy,
Thanks for the advice but I can’t see the prospect of multiple buses just to enter the garden being very appealing to them, I suspect they’ll rather just wait till the garden gets brought to street level as per how they voted.
The Press and Journal and Evening Express are the most dishonest and misleading (so called) newspapers that I know of. More and more people like myself refuse to buy them, DC Thomson also own other publications which I also boycott and as soon as the Aberdeen Citizen comes through the door it gets thrown in the bin.
One of the effects of a small city is the fact that the same people tend to be involved in lots of things. In some ways, this can help – as people get to know each other and work together.
All too often, it can hinder – as the same people, consult with the same people, hearing the same point of view, and taking it to be universal.
ACSEF is a symptom of this – and as the author of this piece rightly states, Aberdeen needs to look beyond the same faces that have been involved in the past. Aberdeen needs to seek wider viewpoints. A good start would be to spend more time talking to the city’s young people.
For as long as the city’s councillors – and Scotland’s politicians focus on a handful of ‘elite’ businesspeople, and forget the wider community, the city will flounder.
If it would require “multiple buses” for your parents to visit UTG – a prospect which, you say, would not be very appealing to them – then clearly Sir Ian Wood’s Granite Web would not be the answer. Perhaps, depending on which service they use, a letter to Sir Moir Lockead’s successor at First Group, or Sir Brian Souter at Slagecoach Bluebird, asking for ‘bus services to be improved might be more appropriate.
H Harper, Access from Union Street would be very appealing, just one bus from Bucksburn to there.
Even a Plaza covering the railway lines and roads would be much more appealing than what we have now, pity the anti people have now delayed any chance of us getting the TIF loan the City so desperately needs, as it stands all new business rates from the new industrial estates will go directly to the Central belt instead of going to rejuvenate our City, something the anti people didn’t think about in their haste to campaign about something.
At least we have Mr Trumps investment bringing new visitors, nothing else in the City is doing that, it could be so much better if we didn’t have this radical left wing minority spoiling the wishes of the indigenous people, everything is a struggle, from a simple road bypass to a new World class golf course right through to improvements in a underused hole in the ground there is always a wall facing progress, this has to change or this City is forever going to be seen as backward, the rate of decline is actually frightening.
Sorry George, but I am at a complete loss to understand how it requires only ‘one bus from Bucksburn’ to reach Union Terrace Gardens yet it would take ‘multiple buses just to enter the garden’. Clearly there is some esoteric scientific principle at work here which is completely beyond my extremely limited intellect. Perhaps you could explain it to me.
It really is quite simple, it takes one bus to get from Bucksburn to Union Street, if my parents were to try and get to the garden it would take at least one more bus to take them to the garden entrance, perhaps you could take your “extremely limited intellect” back to the top of this thread of posts and read them all.
I did follow the thread hence my picking up on your use of the word “multiple” when describing the number of buses which your parents would be required to take in order and I quote you George, “just to enter the garden.” Now I don’t know about your dictionary, but mine defines ‘multiple’ as, ‘having or consisting of many parts, elements etc; manifold,” which I understood to be more than two i.e. one to get to Union Street and one to get to the garden entrance but clearly, once again, I must bow to your superior intellect.
Surely if Wood Group were asked to build a natural gas power station by the Dorad Energy, it must off been under instruction of the Israeli government. Why would Wood Group even know where the electricity is going? They are not the distributors they are constructing a power station. This is yet another attempt to blacken Sir Ian Wood the pro UTG group if its not why have you not mentioned all the other UK companies currently working in Israel. Is the gas being produced in Israeli waters by UK and international companies going to the West Bank probably not but you haven’t even mentioned another company.
I agree that Israel’s occupation of the West Bank is wrong but to hold Wood Group responsible come on grow up.
Thanks for a very enlightening article. Some people have no scruples about making money out of the misery of others. Am I surprised at this behaviour? Of course not.
The Tesco heiress Dame Shirley Porter has strong connections with Israel and has ploughed millions of pounds into the country. I no longer do my main shop with them, but sometimes have to go to the small Tesco for milk.
I am surprised that staff in the city council are claiming to be bullied, I always thought they were more than able to look after themselves. I have first hand experience of ACC employees tactics of intimidation, threats, dishonesty and bullying.
Bullying of officers at ACC? Never! Now, bullying of council tenants is another thing. Defending the indefensible is another. In the recent past, ACC, very kindly, installed a more modern gas central heating system in my home. This reduced my gas bills markedly and I was delighted. Prior to installation, I requested that I keep my gas fire as backup, given central heating systems require electricity to work. Officers held up their hands in horror at this, citing that gas fires were extremely dangerous and I could die if I kept mine. They also pointed out that I would need electricity to light my gas fire in the first place. When I pointed out that I’d managed just fine with matches for some thirty years (thereby saving a fortune in electricity), common sense still didn’t prevail. After a year of prevaricating, they eventually agreed that if I installed a fire myself, they would service it. Very benevolent, given the threw out one that had twenty years more life in it. The overall cost of their untenable position must have cost thousands. Wonder why ACC is so endebted?
Their latest trick (courtesy of said Pete Leonard) is to argue that showers must be sited at the head of the bath, instead of the foot, because you could fall and strike your head of the taps. Really? Last time I looked, if you fall backward from the head of the bath you, more than likely, will crack your head off the taps. Standing at the foot of the bath to shower, on the other hand, guarantees you will fall backward away from the taps. Much safer I’d say. But oh no, ACC sticks to it’s ill thought out guns.
The list goes on and on. The tactic sems to be, if you can’t win an argument logically, throw it into the long grass in the hope it will go away. Like Old Susannah, alas, I don’t go away. Such a shame our city officials can’t go on a common sense and integrity course. Much more beneficial than health and safety that would be.
No doubt about it, smoking is harmfull to all. But then, so are the multitude of vehicles on our city streets, especially deisel powered ones. The junction of Union Terrace and Union Street has some of the highest levels of pollution, caused by vehicular traffic, in the Western World. Do we all wear face masks or ban cars, buses and lorries from that locus? When challenged about the removal of the mature trees in Union Terrace Gardens (which make a valiant effort to remove some of the noxious substances from our heavily polluted air), one proponent of Teletubbieland argued that the harbour was just around the corner, totally failing to notice the fumes pumped out by the large ships therein, or the gridlock on Guild Street and Market Street which adds to the problem. Yes, smoking may be unhealthy, but there are many more pressing problems for the good citizens of Aberdeen and their offspring
How predictably to see a bit of anti – Israeli posts on this site. I trust since you are all so concerned about down trodden people then you will consistent in your views and also refuse to purchase any items from China, Cuba and Iran. No? I thought not – pick on the Jews, easy targets.
Fred, for the sake of clarity, this site/Aberdeen Voice has no view on the subject.
Any leanings you perceive on any subject is an accurate reflection of what has been contributed.
We neither censor nor select. Rather, we aim to publish every contribution we receive and present same in a professional manner whilst editing as little as is necessary, regardless of the writer’s leaning.
Please regard our willingness to publish comments which refute, disagree with, or are critical of particular items/writers as indicative of our being open to article contributions which present a differing or opposite slant to that which you believe is prevalent.
Imbalance, perceived or real, has as much to do with what is missing as what is there. Aberdeen Voice has no control over what writers choose to contribute … or not as the case may be.
Thank you Suzanne for this article, and for Ron Campbell’s comment demonstrating the similarities between passive smoking and traffic pollution.
Tillydrone Community Council raised a question at the NHS Annual Review asking why, with so much evidence of health issues, does NHS Grampian not campaign for traffic pollution action to any extent compared to that for passive smoking, alcohol consumption and obesity.
We have yet to receive an answer although Sir Lewis Ritchie, Director of Public Health, on the day, did say there will be Health Intelligence analysis of all community health issues.
In developing our case for the 3rd Don Crossing Compulsory Purchase Inquiry last December, Tillydrone Community Council have gathered extensive information on the effects of traffic pollution on health.
Unsurprisingly the Scottish Government Reporter dismissed this evidence advising the Government that economic issues are above matters of health.
The experts in your article say any quantity over 25 micrograms of smoke in a cubic metre of air space is harmful. We have a screenshot of the 24 hourly mean PM10 particulate matter recorded at the Aberdeen King Street monitoring station on 2nd February as 38 micrograms per cubic meter, and this is identified as being ‘Low’, (high is 75 to 99 and very high 100 +). The more dangerous smaller PH2.5 particles and microscopic nano particles are not measured. (Note, the web pages no longer function.) Even if the number of cars on the road diminish, pollution will increase as a greater percentage of diesel fuelled vehicles are being purchased, whilst the pollution from modern diesel cars is four times greater than those purchased 10 years ago.
We have many unanswered questions such as:
Why is Nestrans supporting the inclusion of a 3rd Don Crossing in the ‘Development Plan’, a measure to encourage car commuting into the city centre, whilst their status policy for pollution reduction is to reduce the number of car journeys?
An Aberdeen Voice investigation into this issue would be most welcome.
Regards
Frank Paterson
Vice Chair
Thinking about the naked rambler, I believe for the sake of children (who would not understand), the rambler should have worn clothes. But I also feel there is a difference in being naked to be natural (such as wanting to be closer to nature or the natural environment) and being naked to be sexual.
When I walk about the house without clothes on my cat doesn’t recoil in horror and when I see a naked person nothing unsavoury enters my mind, I believe humans are conditioned by society. An individual can and does commit exactly the same kind of crimes whether they have clothes on or not, ancient civilisations who didn’t wear clothes, would not of shared the same ideas that we do of life.
Hi Sean – good points. I agree – be naked at home, or at a nudist colony – totally fine. But when you’re desire to be naked is going to be in public and cause problems for people who’d rather not be exposed to you (or sit on seats you’ve just been sitting on!), then it’s a different story
I think Bob Collier can safely be thought of as a bit of an imbecile. It would be interesting to know where Mr Collier comes from, as he and his like are the first to accuse others of being “incomers”, and enjoy using (possibly racist) terms such as “white/English settlers”. When attacking others who do not share their views of a development in Aberdeen or the shire.
Hey There Aberdeenvoice,
This might be off topic, however, I have to give a speech for a class where i have to persuade the audience to vote for a bill which requires all power providers in the US to have at least certain percentage of its power source from renewable sources. I should understand how much they employ today, thus which i have an idea of how much the necessary % will be fair. If you understand any representative who has proposed a synonymous bill, please allow me recognize.
Cheers
Hi – thanks for your comment. Certainly an important as well as a wide open question – here are some resources which may be of interest; if you already know of them sorry –
A good article with excellent information and advice on who to contact etc. I would really like to see the day where the courts etc take this issue seriously and give the sentences deserved for such barbaric acts of violence against animals.
Perhaps Old Susannah would allow me a plug for my own blog on the back of her latest comment about the annoyingly loud Trump-et? I ask the question ‘Can an intelligent man be an idiot? The case of Donald Trump.’ M’learned friends have advised me not to answer the question myself but your avid readers can come to their own conclusion at http://helpgov.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/can-an-intelligent-man-be-an-idiot-the-case-of-donald-trump/. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
Sorry but I doubt Mr Trump has heard of BBC Two. Of course he’s proven in this film (and countless others) that he is such a two-faced liar, so he might well say he has heard of it.
Story updates: It has emerged that Japan has apparently used $30 million of donations from around the world intended for Tsunami victims… on public relations to discredit Sea Shepherd and other anti-whaling groups. In Taji cove – this update from Cetacean research: “Taiji update: Just heard from Melissa, police are at the hotel, it is being searched, all phones, cameras, and computers are being seized. We will update when we have more details. ~Scott West, Cove Guardian Campaign Coordinator”
People in Pakistan are observing a day of prayer for teenage campaigner Malala Yousafzai who remains in a coma, having been shot in the head by the Taliban for speaking up for womens’ rights.
I greatly admire Anthony and Richard, they are both very intelligent and brave men. I had hoped “You’ve been Trumped”, would get shown on national television, it will go someway in addressing the injustice caused by Mr Trump and his supporters in Aberdeenshire Council.
Better 10pm than not at all. We should consider ourselves fortunate to have seen this at all, thanks BBC2. I see it has won awards for the journalism, and I consider it to be a great piece of film-making, with the documentary cleverly interspersed with the natural beauty that has sadly been blighted.
A good atricle. Very interesting. It is a pity it cannot be saved in working order. Get the P&J to run an article and drum up some support. Do you know what the new owners plan to do with the building and the organ?
Cinema organs are very easy to rescue – because the keys and the pipes are connected electrically, unlike church organs there isn’t any visible decorative case, and there are far fewer pipes than in a typical church pipe organ. All it needs is somewhere in a hall to reinstall it perhaps the size of a one bedroom flat, and it will hide out of the way, ready to make the hairs on the back of your neck tingle again. Good luck Charlie.
The BBC at it’s best, exposing (albeit belatedly) the Trump greed and bullying tactics. For around £3 a week, the licence fee is well deserved by them for this kind of output. Trump on Panorama having one of his rants next perhaps? What about an interview with “Paxo”?
I saw this at a cinema I would urge everyone to watch this.
The film highlights the power of money and it is only too obvious from watching the film that backhanders were received from some high level ‘organisations.’
Donald Trump is a bully who is used to getting his own way by throwing money around and if that fails he gets his Trump Organisation puppets to throw their weight around and make people’s lives hell.
It was bad enough that the Scottish Govt overturned the council’s decision and allowed this SSSI to be destroyed but seeing how some of the residents were treated disgusted and saddened me.
The PBS interview is excellent, but Anthony wasn’t able to answer one question which was why Trump was given an honorary doctorate by Robert Gordon University in 2010. The reason is that Sir Ian Wood is Chancellor of the university. With Sir Ian being the main funder of another controversial project, the Union Terrace Gardens, it would make perfect sense for him to organise the honouring of a similarly controversial figure to make his own activities appear mainstream.
Who better than 16 and 17 year olds to vote on this major issue. At the end of the day, it is their generation who will be most affected should independence win the day.
Ain’t it sickening how those damned capitalists go around creating jobs for people? We don’t need your stinking jobs! We’re happy wallowing in our muck and looking at the empty landscape while the government sustains our unemployed lifestyle.
In the past I have written letters to Alex Salmond and both he and his staff have ignored them all, I think the SNP only answer questions they want to be asked. But it must be nice for them living so comfortably on my taxes while having such disregard for me as a Scottish citizen. I at least know how I will be voting at the referendum.
When Britain was an Empire she ruthlessly invaded, colonised, murdered and plundered the wealth of many other countries. The government should have moral obligation to help those from other lands settle in the UK.
Some weeks ago while surfing the net I ended up reading about, “letters of last resort”. I had never heard of these nuclear plans, it was very interesting and I realised just how real the possibility of a nuclear war could be.
With both a Friends of Union Terrace Gardens and a Common Good Aberdeen, who should I vote for? Or should the two become one? Either way, great work by both of you on what will hopefully be a sensitive and sensible raising of the gardens (aye, raising it’s profile, of course).
You don’t have to ‘vote’ for either. Glad you approve of CGA’s raising the profile. CGA were the organisation which held last year’s Christmas event and the Jubilee tea party; they wish to go ahead with the volunteer-run cafe and look set to go ahead with the play area / swing initiative. They have a good number of plans in an advance stage of costing/development as far as I can tell, and have been liaising with the council and councillors for quite some time now.
The referendum isn’t for Salmond, it’s for an Independent Scotland. I think we stand a far better chance of ousting a man in Edinburgh under a PR system then we ever do of getting change in LabCon London. Don’t equate independence with Salmond, the two are entirely different. An independent Scotland without Salmond would be quite some achievement.
The government has a moral obligation to help the tax paying indigenous population before helping others, we as a Country are massively in debt. If the article writer can find a country with a more progressive approach to immigration then I wish them good luck, I think they’ll find the UK is way ahead of the majority when it comes to immigration.
Aberdeen in particular has seen a huge influx of immigrants these last few years, this is of course to be welcomed and it has been positive for the city but it has put huge strains on social housing, getting a council house is nigh on impossible for the young in Aberdeen these days, immigration should always be encouraged but steps such as this income requirement are important if we’re to deal with migration in a controlled manner, if they have low or no income where do we house them?
good news – the missing dog has been handed in at a police station. How it escaped / was it taken / where it was hopefully answered – just very happy for the owners.
First of all I’m a golfer. I love the game and I have travelled both home and abroad to play numerous courses. This year, the society I belong to, spent a great week in and around Dundee playing some great courses and receiving superb hospitality. Well done to all concerned, who made our trip such an enjoyable one. A credit to Scotland.
Last night I watched the movie, you’ve been trumped. Oh dear, oh dear. Mr Salmond should be ashamed if himself. After the locally voted representatives have said no to this golf course, the greedy politicians ride rough shod over everyone, so they can get Mr Trump his golf course. The treatment of the local residents was simply appalling. As an ex police officer, I am also ashamed of the local constabulary. The blatant one sided arrest of a man trying to do his job in a polite and respectful manner, simply made me cringe.
I am not a tree hugger, I’m probably right of centre in political terms. But I will always stand up for fairness and respect for all law abiding people. In this instance, those poor local folk have my deepest sympathy. I for one, will never play the course, even if I could afford the monstrous green fees. How ridiculous to price local people at £150 for a round of golf!!! What planet is Mr Trump on??
Everyone in Scotland should rise up and support the local people affected by this golf course, if only because of the inhumane treatment of them and their rights in a democratic society.
As a foot note, this is my first ever comment on an issue like this. The film has incensed so much.
Got to hand it to you. All you say may be true but, The SNP is the ONLY party offering us the chance of independence, not a snowball’s chance in hell of any other party doing so. But then I suppose, the prospect of being ruled ad infinitum by Tory, London based, governments is a far better option for we Scots . Always remember, the bulk of the UK population is located south of the border, down Watford way and what they vote goes. Scotland was once a nation state and there is no fiscal or logical reason why it could not be so again. The SNP may not be perfect but they are our ticket to a better future, free from illegal wars, nuclear weapons, The Tories etc etc etc.
Granted the long awaited AWPR will help traffic by-pass Aberdeen City Centre. Will it make much difference to city centre bound commuters? Not a lot methinks. We have new build housing on the cards for Cove/Charleston, Elsick and Muggiemoss. No mention of new railway stations on the nearby rail line at each location though. Now what about the long awaited (and much studied and talked about) Abedeen Crossrail which seems to be moving forward at a snail’s pace. One new station in a decade, and another on the drawing board. We could, apparently, find £140m/£240m/£340m for Teletubbieland, but there appears to be a significant difficulty of finding a lesser amount that would revolutionise commutes. Perverse.
Sarah Malone’s quip about being, “highly biased and manipulative,” describes her boss perfectly don’t you think? As for Grampian Police: They should hang their heads in shame in regard to their one-sided policing.
I don’t believe the Trump Organisation has taken any legal advice, in court they would just get laughed at – like they did in the Scottish Parliament. Though on a serious note, they would expose themselves to cross questioning and dozens apon dozens of facts and information that would be greatly damaging to them.
How about a public enquiry into the lack of objectivity by our local pess in all this? Not through the Press Complaints Commission -they are completely toothless -but by a serious body of people who have no connection to the press.
Well done to the Aberdeen Voice for the article above. It is clear and pulls no punches.
Grampian Police and local and national government have behaved as per the script set for them. Business interests trump those of local people. This has to stop in Scotland. For Alex Salmond to allow his constituents to be treated with such contempt is shocking. I feel so let down by him. He has lost my vote and the vote of everyone I know. Before, I respected his integrity and have voted for him for years. Watching Anthony Baxter’s brilliant ‘You’ve Been Trumped’ made me sad that our First Minister has lost touch with the Scottish people. The Scottish Parliament has also let us down by calling the planning permission in and passing it. Now they have to put it right and quickly.
Let’s have a full investigation into Grampian Police, The Local Authority Planning and Clerk of Work’s failures and Parliament’s role. This isn’t going to go away. I want answers. All decent Scots should too.
“Practical conservation work began in June 1989, when Alan took a team of volunteers to place tree guards around Scots pine seedlings in Glen Cannich, to protect them from being eaten by deer.” It’s very sad that Councillor Aileen Malone and the city council could not have done the same on Tullos Hill before killing families of deer.
While Michael was often described as Scotland’s answer to Randy Newman, I was always of the opinion that Randy Newman was America’s answer to Michael Marra.
Ah George Smith… Old Halliburton Man himself. I remember you said to me in one conversation that you LOVE Donald Trump. That just about says it all, really…
I don’t understand George… you complain about the content of these articles, yet you still read them (pretty much as soon as they are published, as far as i can make out) and respond just to argue for arguments sake. It seems to me that you are in fact the one with the vendetta.
Also, comparing the butchering and decimation of the whale population to the captive farming of livestock is ludicrous… whales are an extremely intelligent species of mammal whose numbers are in rapid decline as a result of the massacres that take place. To disregard the value of the existence of these creatures and to excuse the likely extermination of their species shows ignorance and a distinct lack of compassion
I’m sorry but what was started as a paper for the people of Aberdeen has turned into a left wing propaganda rag, every week is full of attacks on the same people. Aberdeen has a lot going for it so why not concentrate on that instead of the constant campaigning against the same people/projects.
I mean hating Mr Wood for his support of the cgp is fair enough but to then keep picking at him by questioning his charity work is just being too personal and borders on stalking. The same goes for Mr Trump, you don’t like him, we get it! plenty of people in Aberdeen do though and many welcome his investment. The objectivity on here has been lost due to the blind hatred of these people.
And bringing my place of work into a debate isn’t very nice, all I’m doing is airing my opinion.
If you have a look at the FAQ page (see top right) you will see that anyone can submit an article which will be published if it is of sufficient quality and credibility, is relevant and/or of general interest to people in Aberdeen and the Northeast of Scotland and is not distasteful, offensive, or libellous.
There is, therefore, nothing to stop you submitting an article which represents your views as long as it meets these criteria.
George, Just a few words from one Smith to another. Aberdeen Voice gives a voice as did Anthony Baxters film to those who are largely ignored by our local press Having worked at one time in the newspaper industry for 23 years, our illustrious local press have always been on the side of big business as that is where their advertising revenue comes from, however that does not necessarily make them right wing.
Similarily if the AV puts the rich under intense scrutiny it does not mean they are necessarily left wing.
It’s all a matter of how you view the world. As long as the media reflects the truth then thats fine by me.
I have no desire to write an article, I’m no journalist! I do however care about Aberdeen and its people and I can see no reason why some of the resident writers here have to deride some of the wealthier business leaders we have amongst us. A quick google got me the links below, it quickly becomes apparent that the Wood family trust are doing a huge amount of charity work at home as well as Africa, instead of being snide about Mr Woods efforts why not applaud him for being generous, he could quite easily sit on his wealth and do nothing. The tea efforts in Africa are surely a better way of providing long term help to the Country instead of simply giving them money or aid, it looks a great idea! i simply don’t see what good it does attacking the man because he had a different vision for the city centre than the article writer.
May I just add that I don’t mind in the slightest any of my council tax money going to the linked project, it sounds a great initiative, infact it’s projects like these I’d be interested in reading about, our young people being encouraged to open up and run a business through a school project sounds great, I wish my daughters school was involved. The long term benefits of this training to the entire area also shouldn’t be ignored as these kids take the experience into the real World, well done our council and the Wood family trust for providing funding.
George min, Voice was originally set up in early summer 2010 due to the frustration many people felt at the lack of objectivity in the local press over proposed developments such as (and especially) UTG.
As someone who’s been in since the start, albeit deliberately in mostly a backroom capacity, the ethos has always been to give a platform to members of the public who have something to articulate. If you don’t want to take up that offer, that’s your choice, but we HAVE given space to contributions which take the same view as you express in your feedback to us.
We operate on a wholly voluntary basis. It takes up time that few of us have to spare. We don’t have the backing of a large organisation, we don’t take ads and are not in the pockets of any commercial or political body or individual.
Given that your views seem adequately and widely expressed by the local print media, I think you’re doing OK publicity-wise for the views you express withput haranguing Aberdeen Voice.
As someone else said, feel free to submit something for publication, otherwise you’re missing the point (some might think delibetayely) of what Voice was established to do.
George, no one denies that Sir Ian’s trust does good work, in many nations, including our own. What is being complained about is the fact that he and much more prominently, Trump, are trying to bulldoze through projects which have modest support, by nothing short of bully boy tactics. The assertions for both the City Garden and Menie projects were, to say the least,.somewhat over-stated. No one likes a bully. That is the hub of the matter.
My respect goes out to all those who continue to fight for truth and justice , the more materialistic our society becomes , the more vigilance will be required to expose unscrupulous businessmen , at home and from abroad.
I too am living with the result of a local planning decision being overturned by Edinburgh.
‘However, it is undeniable that the Scottish Government took the unprecedented step of intervening in Trump’s planning application, rubber-stamping it over the local government’s will.’
Flats were built higher than alleged and at minimum distance from the rear of my cottage in Old Aberdeen in an area that was described by our local planning department as already being congested. Their refusal to grant planning permission was overturned mysteriously by some bureaucrat from Edinburgh. Our home now suffers from considerably less heat and light than it did , before construction.
Writing from Gloucestershire .. we were appalled by what we learned from this brave documentary .. and astonished that we have not heard of any investigative campaign to determine a whole series of extraordinary things that the documentary seemed to turn up, eg:
• how appropriate was it for the Scottish government to call in the planning application and grant consent of that sort on an SSSI?
• having granted planning consent for such a sensitive development in such a sensitive area, why were the planners not keeping a very close watch to ensure that the work was carried out in accordance with the planning consent? Whose interests should the planners be protecting?
• Why were the police allowed to appear without question as if they were representing the interests of Mr Trump and acting as his private security force?
• Why was Mr Trump apparently unchallenged over his apparent land grab when he was taking from residents land they believed belonged to them? Even if not on their title deeds, they presumably had obtained title by means of ‘adverse posession’ (always assuming that Scottish land law has such a concept similar to English law)?
– why was not more fuss made in the media … did we simply miss it?
Full praise and credit to Aberdeen Voice for its outspoken criticism of the events surrounding the disgusting events and actions associated with the Trump Golf course at Menie Estate.
Tump claims regarding the benefits to Aberdeenshire and to Scotland have always been grossly exaggerated and should have been virtually ignored until scrutinised by independant economists.
Even the ‘simplest’ of politicians should have seen the whole Trump promise for what it was – ‘bull s**t’ delivered with smoke and mirrors!
The treatment by all those involved on the Trump ‘bandwagon’ of the residents of Menie should be a warning to all about the problems of greed overiding peoples basic rights – I would have thought the action of the bankers over recent years should have been enough to sound warning bells in everyones heads.
All praise to those who have fought against this ‘tirany’ by the wealthy against those who cannot afford to defend themselves.
This whole affair may very well come back to those who thought with their pockets and not their conscience!
Honour, decency and moral actions have taken a serious blow in this matter – hopefully not beyond repair
That’s not what the article above is saying, it’s looking for another avenue to attack Mr Wood, the author can’t wait for the trust to file accounts so she can pour over them looking for holes. As I said fair enough to oppose the CGP even though it got a majority in the referendum but please don’t use that as an excuse to hound a man who has done so much for the City and with his charity work. I’m proud we have a charity based in Aberdeen that’s attempting to help those less fortunate than us in Africa and at home.
Fair enough George, but please don’t go on about the much vaunted “referendum.” That was so heavily biased that it reflected something one would expect in a banana republic. The desired outcome was achieved by blatant lies, half truths and extremely misleading artists impressions. You seem to forget that previous consultations threw out the project and the one purporting to give the public a choice of plans was a farce, in that the public choice was disregarded and the results hidden for a considerable time. All in all, the proponents of The City Garden should hang their heads in shame at such a deliberate ploy to mislead the citizens, yourself included.
Shame on you for doubting the intelligence and ability of your fellow citizens to decide what they wanted and to weigh up both sides of the debate, strange why these accusations of bias only flew when your side lost the referendum. That debate has been done to death so lets not go over it again.
George: I’m talking facts. Are you trying to tell me, or anyone else, that the representations of both sides in the referendum were equal (normally a requirement)?
Anyone who met Michael, no matter how briefly, would leave a better person for the experience.
His influence on those around him is, and will remain, immeasurable.
Throughout his illness his sense of humour and concern for others remained strong.
Michael will stay forever in the minds of many. I doubt we’ll ever know the likes of him again.
Kip on Michael – sleep well.
I’m inclined to agree with all said above. While the AWPR will act as a by-pass to the city, it will do little to relieve city centre conjestion brought about by the daily commute. Aberdeen Crossrail has been spoken about for over 30 years, the end result being one additional station. Similarly, widening or the provision of a second bridge at The Bridge of Dee has been spoken of for decades. The end result? Nothing! The world famous Haudigan round-a-bout should have been upgraded many years ago. When this work finally commences, mayhem will ensue, AWPR or no AWPR.
Public transport has a great part to play in resolving our congestion issues. The privatisation of same has made this much more difficult however with escalating fares and service reductions/withdrawals. Aberdeen is the only major city that does not have a supported park and ride system for example. Again, because of fare rises, the limited park and ride that we do have is poorly patronised. Private operators have to make a profit to satisfy their shareholders and investors and are unlikely to improve services unless some form of subsidy is forthcoming.
This is exactly what we have been saying for years, not only that Governments for decades do not seem to comprehend that our unspoiled countryside is a precious resource that once gone is lost for ever, and with concerns over food security we should not be covering our farmland with roads and such like.
There was a large article about Karine Polwart in the Aberdeen Evening Express (pro Trump local paper) on 3 November within the Weekend Supplement. She provides the music at the end of the film, but the main thing is there was an image of the You’ve Been Trumped poster for the film, probably the first time in the newspaper!!!
Re-open the train line to Peterhead instead, and the Banchory line. Get Kintore station, and another couple between Dyce and the toon opened. Stop building houses in f’n BoD, without creating significantly more jobs in the area. 20 years ago, the AWPR would have been acceptable – it isn’t now.
You missed a few points:
1. The AWPR has been designed in such a fashion that it opens up swathes of land for new housing developments, which will be built with no transport links or amenities of note. The people who live there will be forced to use the AWPR, or other routes, significantly increasing the traffic.
2. People who previously ruled out working in Dyce/BoD and living in the South (and vice versa) will now consider this acceptable, adding more traffic to the road.
3. We’ll do it wrong. Roundabouts will be used where slip roads should be etc etc. to cut corners. It’ll just move the congestion to a different corner.
FOR NOW, the AWPR is great for bypassing Aberdeen, but in the long run only serves to cause further ugly & pointless dormitory developments that don’t help Aberdeen, and certainly won’t bring back the steadily withering-away prosperity & jobs.
Best case scenario is the bypass is great for the relative few folk up north to avoid Aberdeen altogether. Aberdeen traffic still bad, Aberdeen’s prosperity still declining.
Worst case scenario, despite lack of demand, tons of new developments spring up along the bypass route. The bypass just becomes another point of traffic congestion, commuters into Aberdeen find it even harder, people can’t find jobs or amenities because nobody bothered to make sensible plans to improve Aberdeen’s lot.
A second Dee crossing near the Bridge of Dee is sensible. Fixing the Haudigan is sensible. Improving public transport for Aberdeen is sensible. Making honest efforts to reinvigorate the city centre is sensible. Fixing the major issue which is traffic INTO AND OUT OF Aberdeen is sensible.
It had decades of oil prosperity and if the council had bothered, could have bent some of that money being made off of Aberdeen’s back to it;s own benefit. Instead all it got was decades of lazy dormitory estates & lazy commercial & industrial estates that were always intended to be abandoned once the oil ran dry.
But hey, for now, it knocks off a few minutes getting from north of Aberdeen round to south of it, so there’s that. Really late & well over budget, but a time saving for some folk all the same.
I have to agree with Suzanne Kelly. The lack of transparency in various local projects leaves much to be desired.
Most glaring, in recent times, was the failure of the business community and politicians to disclosed the potential personal gains that would have been made from the “redevelopment” of Union Terrace Gardens. The Tullos Hill project was also shrouded in mystery in that regard as has been said above.
I have lived in a council house for several years and suffered very nasty discrimination and dishonesty from council staff, this has included intimidation and aggressive behavior. I think Aberdeen City Council must be the most corrupt local authority there is.
I’m always mystified by the careless ease with which people apply the word “corrupt” to entities or situations they don’t much like, in particular the city council. Intimidation and aggressive behaviour from any council is inexcusable but hardly corrupt. I’m not saying our council is squeaky clean – far from it, the article throws up some very shady dealings, indeed – but really they are more about bad (read bloody awful) practice and lack of transparency than corruption in the real sense. I wouldn’t think the council here is any more or less corrupt then the norm, however regrettable that might be…
Of course talented people will leave Aberdeen to head for Glasgow and London, it’s because Aberdeen is fast becoming a run down backwater of a place that has no chance of attracting tourists, any plan to change this has been halted by the same old anti progress people.
We need investment and we need creative projects to turn the tide, putting a few swings in UTG is not going to do this. It now seems the City of Culture bid is the next project in the cross hairs of the anti people, I just wish they could step back for a minute and see the long term damage they’re doing by opposing everything, the city isn’t going to magically transform without change.
btw Enjoy your masked ball, a great cause, such a pity at £110 per head the majority like me were priced out, events on common good land no matter how good the cause should perhaps be priced within the range of the ordinary working man in the future.
The City of Culture Bid? Ah yes, that’ll will be a devise for adding to our city’s massive debt I suppose. As Old Susannah points out, a fat lot of good it did Liverpool, having to make cut after cut caused by the funding of this, apparent celebrity status.
Comparing Aberdeen and Dundee is farcical. The harbour area along to the railway station was, in the main, derelict, excepting the concrete monstrosities dotted about. Union Terrace Gardens, on the other hand is a green city centre space bounded by magnificent granite buildings. Do we really want to turn it in to a concrete monstrosity? What will that prove? Would it be an act of “culture”? I think not.
You don’t solve a debt problem by stopping investment, infact that’s the last thing to do. As always Susannah focuses on the negatives, the likes of Glasgow benefited hugely when they won the city of culture bid yet some council cuts in Liverpool are the focus of the article.
Speculate to accumulate, Aberdeen has suffered by standing still while the other main Cities in Scotland are all spending, who would have ever foreseen Dundee overtaking Aberdeen as a place for tourism, they didn’t do that by being afraid of progress.
And a quick google regarding Liverpool suggests the City of Culture win was a huge success.
Visiting Liverpool ECoC
– The Liverpool ECoC attracted 9.7 million
additional visits to Liverpool, constituting
35% of all visits to the city in 2008.
– These visits generated an economic impact
of £753.8 million (additional direct visitor
spend) across Liverpool, Merseyside and the
wider North West region.
– 2.6 million European and global visits were
motivated by the Liverpool ECoC in 2008.
97% of these were first-time visits to the city.
– The ECoC generated an additional
1.14 million staying visitor nights in
Liverpool hotels, 1.29 million in the rest
of Merseyside and 1.7 million in the rest of
the North West.
I take it your figures are for the year Liverpool held this dubious title? Subsequent years?? Derry doesn’t seem to have improved things much after it’s venture in to the cultural field.
And as for Aberdeen standing still: I seem to recollect it is the easiest place in the UK to find work in these recessionary times. But then we are the oil capitol of Europe, apparently. I’d say we’re doing just fine without culture and dubious Teletubbie Theme Parks.
One last point George: Glasgow benefitted no end. It still has the highest unemployment in Scotland. It still has major drug problems. It’s still the crime capital of Scotland. Guess the cultural revolution didn’t impact on these groups. I wonder why?
No one is saying it is the cure to all ills, same goes for the CGP, but it would be a start. Aberdeen may be the oil capital but the years of prosperity have done little towards improving Aberdeen as a City. Stop the negativity, it’s time to promote and improve the City, the years of standing still have put us into decline.
We need to promote industry outwith the oil sector, it won’t be with us forever, tourism is one area where we should be bending backwards to help, it provides much need money and employment especially in the lower end unskilled market. We even saw protests against someone trying to turn some scrubland into a World class golf course, that just wouldn’t happen elsewhere in Scotland, it’s like any attempt at progress is met with a brick wall, those protesters never give one hoot for the hotels and businesses that would prosper from the course they were only interested in who was behind it, it didn’t fit with their socialist agenda.
Same goes for the bypass, for 20 plus years self interested groups have campaigned against something the vast majority want.
Campaign all you like but just remember it’s real people you are hurting, for every thing that is shouted down it’s costing people real jobs and hope for their families, not everyone in Aberdeen is in a well paying oil job.
Ah how simple things are.
“Some scrubland” I assume you mean the unique dune system forming part of a site of special scientific interest. I’m sure tourists would have liked to see that.
I was just thinking that George Wilson. Seems your namesake is somewhat misinformed, if artfully and culturally inclined (does whacking wee ba’s aboot count as culture?) We all want Aberdeen to prosper. As you say, the oil won’t last for ever, just forty or fifty years by most recent reckoning. We then have the carbon capture technology to replace it coming and the various associated technologies, if Westminster can get their act together that is. The bypass has been talked about for decades, as has Aberdeen Crossrail. Politicians, not objectors, caused the major delays in implementation. All in all, a major improvement to the road infrastructure and full utilisation of our rail network would bring more benefits to the city than any Teletubbie lookalike could, don’t you agree?
Don’t think there was any lasting benefit to the ordinary citizens of the towns who became
Cities of Culture. The usual suspects in big business would have no doubt benefited in their involvement. It is only ” big business” which benefits in any sort of grandiose schemes in cities, yet it is left to the
so called “plebs” who pick up the tab when things go arse over tit.
Why’s everyone so desperate for a conspiracy – what’s wrong with the Scottish government’s explanation???
“Ministers nonetheless wished to invite Aberdeen City Council to submit a full TIF business case, provided that public support for the Union Terrace Gardens project could be demonstrated. Aberdeen’s project was chosen to ensure good geographical spread of TIF pilots. It was also selected because of the potential of the scheme to lever in £55 million of private funding immediately, representing 40% of the estimated total cost of the City Garden Project (£140 million). The potential to lever in such levels of guaranteed private funding for the creation of the assets made this project unique amongst those for which bids had been received.” http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Government/Finance/18232/FOI
What a load of cobblers, I bet you think America blew up the twin towers. I voted for UTG redevelopment, but no way would I vote for independence and no way would this have encouraged me to do so.
A geographical spread was not one of the criteria for evaluating TIF business cases. They were to be judged on economic robustness and for a good reason too. If the business case was poor then the municipal council taking the risk of borrowing would be left in debt.
The public were not informed that the Aberdeen business case was dubious. They should have been.
This is definitely being used for point scoring by snp opponents. Many a complaint we have heard about the unfair share of Scottish funding Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire receive from the Scottish government but when the government do something to ensure funding for this area where otherwise there would have been none the same politicians complain. Do they want funding or just to score points.
George, you do not speak for everyone, so kindly refrain from applying the royal “we” to your exclamations. Thousands did not want it, but unfortunately CGP supporters without fail experience extreme difficulty when it comes to accepting evidence that does not support their point of view. “Blinkered” is the word I’m looking for…
George, the Scottish Futures Trust decided the Aberdeen TIF was substandard and that the economic benefits scored 4/10. They are part of the Scottish Government and the assessment was made well before the CGP referendum.
This was information that should have been put in the public domain before the referendum. The people of Aberdeen were not provided with all the information that they should have to inform their vote.
We now know that the City Garden Project does not make any business sense. This validates the August 22 council decision to reject the TIF business case.
Ben, I am not anti SNP or indeed a member of any political party. I can tell you that I once voted for the SNP although not any more.
I have written the article in good faith. It is a matter of public record that the TIF ranking was interfered with, that ‘geographic spread’ was not a criterion for assessing TIF applications and that for whatever reason the SFT were most reluctant to reveal the ranking.
The judgement that the Aberdeen TIF was substandard was kept out of the public eye. This is poor government. There is a lack of transparency and accountability over what happened.
My opinion that Alex Salmond is trying to keep SIW sweet is speculative but consistent with the facts, and to my mind utterly believable.
When will folk get it into their heads that the question of Independence is not about the SNP, is not about Alex Salmond, and it’s certainly not about a bit of green space in the centre of Aberdeen.
Yes, Independence has always been an SNP policy, of course, but the issue has moved on from that now. We are getting the referendum. It’s about the future of the nation for centuries to come. Now is the time we should all move on from the petty personal attacks on individuals, and move on to concentrate on the important issue of an entire nation’s future.
I was at the first Yes Scotland Aberdeenshire meeting last weekend. Chair of the meeting was an Englishman. A Frenchman and an Italian spoke from the audience. There were members from the Labour Party who also spoke. All of whom were of the opinion Scotland would do better as an Independent nation.
As emotive a subject UTG’S has been to the minority of Aberdeen residents, it has nothing to do with the future of our nation. It’s minuscule by comparison.
With your MSM tendencies, you should get a job with the BBC mate.
Tut tut Susannah. Having a go at the most popular government in the UK. Compared to the one down the road, south of Watford, the Holyrood bunch actually have public support, don’t you know>
I have to agree with Mike Shepherd. Not only did the figures not add up, according to a leading economist, was the £140m price tag realistic in the first place?
Yes, the much vaunted referendum did produce a result in favour of redevelopment, but only after a blizzard of misleading, indeed dubious, figures were bandied about by proponents, not to mention the dodgy “artists impressions.” Rules for referenada are clear. Each side should have equal funding to put their point across. The was sidestepped by proponents, effectively annulling the referendum in any other circumstance.
We should also remember that the public’s views were disregarded in every other “consultation” when the desired result was not achieved. The Granite Web design was rejected, outright, by the public, was it not George?
All in all, the whole saga was an affront to democracy.
Probably the most shocking episode of the referendum was the bogus £20 million Art Gallery grant that the TIF funding was supposed to unlock. It was pure fiction. It never existed, Yet as far as the CGP propaganda was concerned, it was a reality and was sold to the public as such.
There was such a serious short fall in cash, £15 million from the private sector and the £20 million bogus grant that never existed, the economics of the project was a total basket case. And it still is.
Mike, we won. Many of us who campaigned against UTG are independence supporters. Many of us voted labour at the council elections not because of a new found love of the union, but because we knew they would put a stop to UTG.
We realised it would mean no Don bridge and the pedestrianisation of Union St would be back on the agenda. The same Labour guff that got them booted out of the toon hoose before.
Now if you want to support the union, do so – that is your right. UTG is not a reason to vote for or against independence. Please stop trying to make it one.
I hope you enjoy this Labour term in office in Aberdeen as it will be its last for many a year, the huge number of people who voted for the CGP will not forget the overturning of their democratic vote. I’ve never voted in council elections, to me they’re all self serving failed businessmen playing at big boys politics, you can be sure I’ll be at the next election to get this lot out, I know for sure I won’t be the only one.
The CGP will happen, too many people are for it for it not to go ahead, you’ll get another chance to bang that desk and cry foul play when you lose.
It is generally accepted that the referendum was totally imbalanced and the public were dramatically misled. Please don’t try to convince anyone otherwise because you will make yourself a laughing stock.
In regard to independence: I firmly believe that it would benefit Scots and consequently voted SNP since Margaret Thatcher’s era. Prior to that I simply didn’t vote. I voted for Labour in the local government election as they were the only party which represented my views in regard to UTG.
UTG is a matter local to our city and intervention, by either Holyrood or Westminster politicians, is unwarranted. It is certainly not a matter that should pertain to independence, or otherwise, of Scotland as a whole..
Generally accepted….by the losing side! How little faith you have in the Aberdeen people to weigh the pros and cons, shame on you for thinking you know better.
I’ve not changed my mind on which way I’d vote nor have those I know who voted for the CGP. If the likes of Mike Shepherd didn’t believe it was fair then they wouldn’t have went to the count and leered at the prospect of a majority, the sour grapes only began when they lost. If he’d boycotted and called foul before the count then he may have garnered a little respect.
*POST AMENDED. George, I will restore the removed sentence if you can specify which ‘lies’ you are referring to, and if we/you can establish that a specific group or individual is indeed guilty of lying. Also ‘anti progress people’ does not specify or define any group or set of individuals therefore the sentence removed is either meaningless, groundless, defamatory or unjustifiably inflammatory and therefore Aberdeen Voice will not bear responsibility for its publication. – Moderator.
Let’s not forget that a lot of the trees they are/were planning on planting are Ash – their provenance? Who-knows-where. Already infected with Chalara? Possibly, if they were imported to minimise costs.
Strange article and odd that you appear again to be singling out Sir Ian Wood and Stewart Milne for scrutinising, both these people have provided employment for hundreds of people and have paid Millions back to taxpayer through themselves and their companies. A truly pointless exercise imo trying to dig dirt on them, not only a waste of your time but not a pleasant thing to read. Couldn’t you have done a positive article on the great work the Wood family trust is doing in Africa, perhaps research the schemes it has put in place to help families over there.
George,
I hope you’re not suggesting that just because Sir Ian Wood and Stewart Milne provide jobs for people they are somehow above scrutiny. Dictatorships arise when people are not scrutinised. Yes, I agree Sir Ian has done good charitable work in Africa, but then Sir Jimmy Saville was looked upon as someone who did good work for charitable causes. NO!!! I’M NOT FOR ONE MOMENT BRACKETING SIR IAN ALONG WITH SIR JIMMY SAVILLE, only trying to make the point that nobody should be above scrutiny.
Ian Wood promised to give fifty million to Africa and he has now gone back on his word. For Mr Wood to say that he is giving money to charity and then not do so, displays dishonesty.
*Post Moderated. Sean, please refrain from including direct accusations in your comments as these require us to amend or remove in order that we do not become legally responsible/liable on your behalf.
We do value your opinion and your contributions, but not to the extent that we will risk court action and all that entails,
Please do continue to contribute material, preferably that which we can publish in full, compromising neither your sentiment or style, nor our journalistic integrity.
He may yet donate the money he promised. What he has done is delayed the withdrawal of his offer to part-fund the CGP by a year whilst there is an obvious clumsy concerted effort to get this discredited and rigged TIF scheme back on the table. In August 2013 that year will be up.
To the contrary of C.J.Piper”s take on objectors, more people are outraged since the slaughter of the deer, the destruction of the ecosystem and subsequent eviction of the rest of the wildlife. This is NOT going away.I am ashamed that a tree has been planted in my name.
The reason they’re getting scrutinised looks to be for their involvement in the CGP, this appears little more than an attempt to gain some revenge by those against the project by finding some dirt on them. Quite petty imo considering all those two men have done for the people of this city and beyond.
Post removed Sorry Sean, but unless this statement can be evidenced, we cannot publish, and whilst many might sympathise, as it is such a sweeping statement, I doubt if evidencing is possible. Please note, Aberdeen Voice is legally responsible for all content – including readers comments.
Please feel free to post comments which do not require us to contravene laws governing all publications.
I believe I have evidence in my medical files that council staff lied in order to discriminate and behave aggressively towards me. This in particular, includes completely inaccurate information written by council staff. I am prepared to stand up in court and welcome any legal action by the council against me, for telling the truth.
That will be the same Mr Wood who stated he would, “walk away,” if the public voted against his plan for UTG, then did the exact opposite George? The same Mr Milne that, when found by the courts (at great expense to the taxpayer) to be in the wrong, decided to “negotiate” a settlement with ACC? Hardly paragons of virtue..
At the end of the day, I wonder how many citizens wanted a tree planted in their name? But then that’s Aberdeen, which many describe as a backwater, stuck in the past. What the proponents of all those schemes forget is that it is Aberdonians who oppose them – the very people born and brought up in the city and it’s environs – and who have to live here. So who better to object? Who better to listen to? We have become the oil capital of Europe without Granite Webs and silly tree planting schemes and will probably become the cutting edge centre for green energy (if Westminster gets it act together). The prosperity of our city and shire is set to continue for the foreseeable future without all the absurdities being propounded. Never forget, the revenues from the North East drive the Scottish economy and make a very healthy contribution to UK plc.
The students make valid points. Austerity is simply not working. Then we have the benefits scam, headed by ATOS, with the attitude that, if you’re breathing, you can work. Somewhat simplistic. But then, paying a French company millions and others similar amounts to perpetuate scams is definitely going to cure the economy’s ills. The end result will probably be that suicides will soar and the mental services wing of the NHS will be in heavy demand (if you’re lucky enough to be seen by them at all). Just remember students that, there is no possibility of you receiving housing benefit, from April, unless you share a room. Better still, cram as many in to said room as you can and if you can’t find work, apply for a place in the new Work Houses to be set up by The CONservatives in the near future, where you will be served gruel twice a day to meets the government’s human rights requirements.
Also the same people where one gives Millions of their personal wealth to the poor in Africa and another who underwrite’s the debt at Pittodrie to keep our football team in business. That’s before you get to the huge employment they provide.
Starting a vendetta against them because they didn’t agree with you on a garden project is a joke.
Nothing to do with The Gardens directly George. It’s about wealthy individuals trying to usurp public assets for their own wealth making ploys. Granted, both have given employment to many in the city and beyond. That does not give them the right to ride roughshod over public opinion, or to try and sway said opinion by foul means.
The article in question has nothing to do with the garden, that’s my point, the author is trying to dig dirt on them because they had an opinion she didn’t agree with. I just don’t see the point. Attacking them over their support of the garden is fine but digging into their life’s looking for nuggets to fire at them is not on in my book, that’s Murdock style reporting.
You’ll be glad to read I’m giving up on this forum, it seems futile to try and debate issues when the moderation is so one sided, again I’ve had a post chopped because it didn’t fit with the agenda.
George, it has been explained to you at some length, and in some detail why one sentence was removed from a comment you made for LEGAL reasons, not on account of any agenda. I see no point in discussing this any further with you, particularly as the moderators have thus far put more effort into clarifying the issue for you than they were obliged to, both publicly via the comments box and via private email, but I will not allow your view on the moderation to go unchallenged.
If you are incapable of understanding that direct, unsubstantiated accusations are out of bounds in a publication, and that for us to publish these is to accept liability on your behalf, then that is your problem and one that only you can rectify.
If I may take the opportunity to provide figures re. how your comments to date have been dealt with, they look like this.
Total comments contributed : 46
comments published in full and unaltered : 44
comments blocked : 1 (Reason : legal. Explanation provided )
comments published but amended : 1 (Reason : legal. Explanation provided )
These stats are easily checked by anyone George. Please look them over before attempting to persuade anyone other than yourself that your attempts to participate in debate on this site have been made ‘futile’ by ‘one sided moderation’ because the evidence suggests otherwise.
In fact, I will be sorry to see you giving up the forum. The moderation is not, in reality, one sided in my view. Aberdeen Voice was set up so that matters ignored by, or reported in a biased manner could be addressed by ordinary Aberdonians. It does that effectively with moderators only stepping in when “legalities” raise their head. I find it refreshing that you have apologised for the unwarranted attack on the moderators. Too few in this world are prepared to admit their mistakes and you and I appear to take the same moral stance on this issue. I always had the greatest respect for Ian Wood until, as previously stated, he went back on his word. That is my reason for losing respect for this, otherwise, pillar of our society.. I do wish you would reconsider remaining in the forum. As you say, debate/discussion is healthy and it is important all sides of issues are represented.
Hilariously only 5,000 lazy individuals bothered to show up in comparison to the 50,000 during the last riot. This Government is doing a good job for students and the drop in numbers shows that!
I usually make it a point not to comment on stories I have in Aberdeen Voice, but occasionally one or two posters go too far down either illogical or legally-questionable routes that I am better off commenting than not. George has written “..that’s my point, the author is trying to dig dirt on them because they had an opinion she didn’t agree with…”.
George, perhaps you mean to say ‘you think the author is trying to dig dirt…’ or ‘you believe the author is trying to dig dirt…’ But your assertions you know what my intent is are (as ever) wrong, and in this instance getting rather close to libel.
For the avoidance of doubt, this piece (and the follow-up out shortly) is a partial exposé on how our tax money is carved up and given to questionable projects, billionaire philanthropists who have their own money, yet want ours, and how unelected quangos are hiding the identities of firms/people whose services we are paying for (eg the chamber of commerce invoices sent via Scottish Enterprise for the City to actually pay regarding the City Garden Project).
George calls the piece ‘strange’ – another tool of the propagandist is to assign negative labels to people and things, hoping they will stick. The way in which a cash-strapped city which is cutting vital services, yet finds money to give to a billionaire, sells land at far less than market value to a millionaire which under-bids on jobs in construction are the things which are strange (if not unacceptable), not my uncovering them. I look forward to publishing Part 2 of this article shortly; no doubt George will have something to say about it as well. In fact, I’m finding it hard to remember the last time I wrote something George (if that’s his name) didn’t comment on. But thank you George – as long as you stay legal, avoid libel, and want to say something of value and relevance, do go ahead and post.
Cordially, Suzanne
I shall keep on commenting for as long as my comments are allowed, I don’t agree with your views and will voice that if I can.
Keep on being negative about people who have done far more good for my City than you have (in my opinion) and I’ll keep on pulling you up.
Champagne socialism doesn’t sit well in my book, Aberdeen is rife with it and in my opinion it is damaging the City.
And my real name is George, I have nothing to hide or fear by posting my real name. I am part of no group and have no political leanings, I’m certainly not a “propagandist”, I’m merely someone who dislikes the way some activists (imo) are holding back progress in our City, I’m born and bred here and can see it slipping into disrepair, me views on reversing that are the opposite of yours and I won’t be silenced on airing that viewpoint.
I’m well aware of the libel laws and have recently been successful when defending myself in a case, a case that now is actually cited as case law in bulletin board cases, it’s not something I would wish to do again due to the time it involved so if you feel I acted with malice towards you then I apologise and will strive to make it clear my viewpoints are just my opinion.
btw The council did not give money to a Billionaire, that is simply just misleading the reader imo, it gave money to a joint venture along with the Wood family trust to fund a very worthwhile project involving two schools, hundreds of children benefited and the long term benefits can only be good for the city, I just can’t see the negative in the programme, I actually hope the next school it’s introduced too is my daughters. The way you’ve written it above in my opinion makes it sound like the Council gave Sir Ian Wood directly.
Lets hope it encourages many of the children to set up business and provide employment, it may even spawn the next Aberdeen born Billionaire and could even lead on to another person from our area funding charity work in the poorer parts of Africa as Sir Ian does.
Congratulations to Michael Forbes! It would be interesting to find out how many votes were cast, but it is a powerful message all the same. If you’re out there Mr Salmond and Mr Trump, people clearly care about the situation at Menie.
A loud minority shout as always, the majority like me are glad to have Mr Trump investing in the area, how people can favour a ramshackle farm over a World class golf course is beyond me.
Champagne socialism at its best, people who hate the wealthy yet sit in their owned 4 bedroom detached watching their 50″ Plasma and typing on a £1200 Mac book, Aberdeen, don’t you just love it.
George, how do you know it’s a minority? 68% of folk in the north east dislike Donald Trump intensely. I don’t have a 50″ plasma. In fact I don’t have a television at all. I don’t hate the wealthy. I have many extremely wealthy friends. I hate Donald Trump because he is an arrogant, mendacious and manipulative bastard. It has nothing to do with his wealth.
Before claiming that Trump’s course is world-class and will benefit Scotland, I suggest you check out Mr Trump’s track record, which casts severe doubt over his ability to run the proverbial drinks party in a beer-making factory. His working day appears to involve tweeting for hours and bragging the rest of the time about how much money he has and how clever he is. These latter practices are generally deemed unnecessary by billionaires or seriously intelligent people, which leads us all to wonder how much truth there is in anything he says.
By contrast, Michael Forbes has worked hard all his life and is merely trying to protect his own home, where his family has lived for generations. He is a true hero, in the David and Goliath mould, and represents the 99%.
My god this is horrendous. I am shocked but I dont know why. Perhaps its because its a lot worse than I thought.
Why is this allowed to go on? Why is nothing done about it.
The answer is perhaps obvious. All tarred by the same brush?
*Post moderated, Sheila, it has been necessary to remove a small part of your post for legal reasons. Although many many sympathise and agree with the removed part, Aberdeen Voice cannot be responsible for publishing direct accusations. Please continue to contribute your comments. your input is welcome, but be aware of the boundaries we must operate within.
What a joke, the mans property is a disgrace, a biased vote based on a terrible slanted documentary, where are the cries that it was a one sided vote based on misleading information, hypocrites.
George, you could have voted on the basis of the information you have. It was a well advertised, open, public vote which accurately reflects the views of the participants.
George I saw it on the Scotsman website and then it spread virally across facebook, twitter and presumably other social networks. It’s a national award that’s been running for years. You maybe need to pay more attention.
An who are you taejudge Georgie boy??How anyone can put a golf course above an SSSI is beyond me…an i’m no a tree hugger…nor a member of the bunny brigade…I’m a Scot who will no stand by an watch some yank ruin my country fer profit!!
The course is there – it could have been built by making reasonable offers to buy property and accepting that not everyone wants to sell, instead of appealing to the Govt to use CPOs, and building huge mounds (which may contravene planning rules) to obscure ‘views’. Instead Trump acted like a baby to try to get everything his own way.
A pathetic way to try to do business and we shouldn’t tolerate it.
Forbes wants to live as he has – what’s wrong with that?
Or would you stand idly by as I offered you a fraction of the value of your home on the back of promises of gajillions of jobs for the area, regardless of the implausibility of the claims?
Mr Trump didn’t use 1 CPO, still comes a huge outcry from the usual suspects, meanwhile in Tillydrone 15 CPO’S are to be issued for a third Don crossing, where is the outcry about the rights of these people? No one is interested because it isn’t being done by a rich person that they hate on a personal level.
Forbes was living in a run down hovel, the place has not been worked for years, where was the outcry that this was spoiling a place of special scientific interest? No one cared about him or the area till Mr Trump bought it.
Socialists and the usual far left supporters don’t half talk a load of rubbish and have selective memories when it comes to things they support.
George, you and your cronies have a right bee in your bonnet about “far left socialist tree-huggers” and “champagne socialists”… to listen to you, you’d think we spent our lives printing off communist tracts in freezing garrets or down the Brewdog toasting the death of capitalism…
George, Trump requested that the council use CPOs and he would have been absolutley delighted if they had done so. You’ll find a link to the letter in which the Trump orgaisation requests the CPOs on Andy Wightman’s blog, here. http://www.andywightman.com/?p=858 If you look at it you will see they state clearly “the purpose of this letter is to ask the Council to exercise its powers of compulsory purchase under section 189 of the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 to acquire the eight plots of land on behalf of TIGLS.”
By the way, I’m opposed to the Third Don Crossing and happy to put my name to any petition opposing the compulsory purchase orders that apply thereto.
I’M interested in and back those who would have their peace and quiet destroyed and property ravaged by the building of a bridge in the wrong place. I differ from many of Trump’s critics in that, even as someone who despises the stupid game, I know that golf courses do a pretty good job of looking after coastal environments. I am concerned about the SSSI needs being ridden over rough-shoddedly, though.
My biggest gripe is the manner in which this bully has operated from day one. He’s a blustering toys-oot merchant whose behaviour I would not have tolerated from my bairns when they were wee.
I’m going to enjoy watching the FM twist and turn on this though.
Hey George,
Have you had a look at the Tripping up Trump pages on Facebook? Seems you’re famous since this article was posted there and folk from home and abroad responded to your comments.
To see how the world views you and your opinions check it out at http://www.facebook.com/groups/105372397865/?fref=ts
“and then somehow a private stadium which Milne would decant AFC into, turning AFC’s historic grounds into housing for his own profit”
What a load of rubbish, without Mr Milne Aberdeen football club could well cease to exist, the sale of the land at Pittodrie (a crumbling stadium which costs a fortune to maintain) would go into servicing the huge debt, a debt not quite so big this week as Mr Milne has agreed to turn part of the debt due to him into shares in the club. The new stadium would be built by borrowing a huge amount on a mortgage, this would presumably again be need to be underwritten by Mr Milne. If you or anyone else suggest he’s interested in AFC for his “own profit” then you are either deluded or have not done enough research, the club is loss making to over £1 Million per year and Mr Milne draws no salary, how on earth could he make a profit?
I really look forward to your reply, to me that is another misleading article the same as last weeks about Sir Ian.
This is turning into another Menie, no one cares about it till someone proposes building something for the good of the community on it, how many special areas do we have, looks like another piece of unvisited scrubland to me.
You truly believe that boat shown in the documentary would have floated? It looked like a long deserted rotten shell to me, and I presume you have proof that Mr Trump or his people holed a boat?
Wonderful news not only for Michael but for all the residents. Nobody should be bullied in this disgusting way. Also who gave Donald Trumps bullies the right to stop people walking on the foreshore!
Mr Forbes lives on a working farm. Real life tends to be untidy, as does the natural environment. Personal attacks on a working man do not lend support or credence to your increasingly spurious arguments.
This was a controlled shoot done by experts, the aim was not to wipe out the Deer population but to control it in a manner that would allow they long term herd and the newly planted trees to thrive, these type of culls are carried out all over Scotland on a regular basis. If it wasn’t done the deer population would explode and the poor animals would in some cases starve to death. None of us like seeing wild animals killed but if you go beyond the headline you’ll find it is for the deer populations long term health that these things are done, when the deer have a mature forest to wander through up there people will hail it as a success story.
Mike Forbes truly deserves this award for the honesty and integrity he has shown in the face of lies misinformation and propaganda, not solely from the Trump Organisation but from a vociferous minority who actually believe they may personally benefit from this environmental disaster that is as yet far from proven. A little due diligence before bowing down to Trump would have done us, the Scottish people, no harm at all. Well done Mike, a deserved award based on an open public vote.
With all due respect to Mr Smith, if you look at Trump’s track record, he rarely finishes the projects he begins. There are holes in the ground in many places where he attempted to build whatever it was to be, always using the same words, “best in the world,” “world class” and “famous”, all of which are untrue and proven to be so.
Mr Trump is a snake oil salesman of the first degree. He has had so many failed businesses, but has learned how to work the system in his favour. When he defaults on loans, he sues the banks for wanting to pursue. He is narcissistic and pathological. His self-importance is mind-blowing. To get behind this man can only result in disappointment and, for some, complete financial ruin.
I have read business article after business article recounting all these truths. The man is not well; I truly think his mental health is completely shot but he surrounds himself with yes men who will do his bidding and never question his decisions or statements. His behaviour after the last US elections shows how tentative his hold on reality really is. I would bet everything I have (and that’s very little), that this venture will never reach full development. He has been trying to back out while saving face for over a year (blaming everything from the economic climate, to investors, to windfarms).
Powerful business lobbies have always operated in cities to enhance ” the greater good.” Invariably, the “good” part is that they line their own pockets in the process.
Suzanne is right. All monies from the public purse should be clearly accounted for, in miniscule detail.
I agree, wonder if she managed to get a breakdown on the money that was given to Peacock, seeing as our council leader is on the board there it would be of interest to see if this in anyway benefited them, in the name of transaprency of course.
One wonders how she now views the Labour leaders on another matter as well, they appear to have been voted in in certain areas by opposing the third Don crossing, it now looks imo like they’re going to go against their election pledge and vote for it, surely this brings the whole election into focus as they probably wouldn’t have got in if they’d told the truth, in turn the CGP would have probably got the go ahead. Time for some real investigative journalism from our inquisitive reporter, surely a journalist doesn’t allow their own opinion to get in the way of a big story!
Never been to New York (no desire to go their either, to be honest). Did make Newark once though. Excellent public transport there also.
Now the comment about Glasgow is spot on. First Glasgow don’t rip you off by charging a “supplement” on their morning peak day ticket, unlike First Aberdeen. The Subway is a really cheap alternative to the bus also. Shame we haven’t had Aberdeen Crossrail implemented, after 30 years of talking about it. Just imagine, Cove to Guild Street in 6 minutes or so, instead of 30, or so, by bus. Glasgow also has the SPTE which ensures you pay a reasonable fair within their sphere of operations. Oh but we could have a similar authority to constrain First Aberdeen.
Could do with the Tesco Clubcard points myself Suzanne. Maybe we could lobby our councillors to get a cut in the action?
The fact still remains that not ONE CPO was issued for the golf course to be built, now why is no one up in arms about the 15 Tillydrone families about to receive their CPO? No documentary, not a peep on here, please explain why they don’t matter when a man who owns a ramshackle farm does….and he still lives there!?
I suspect if it was Mr Trump away to build the bridge it would be a different story.
I for one don’t want a third river crossing and I certainly don’t want it going through a built up estate, I do wonder if it was a more afluent area affected then peoples viewpoint would change.
George, did I say they didn’t matter? No. I said I am opposed to the 3rd Don crossing and to the use of any CPO’s connected to it. I’m not involved in a campaign against it because one can’t be involved in tackling every injustice i this crazy world but if the opportunity comes up and I’m in a position to offer support I most certainly will.
If there is a problem with items not being covered in the depth they deserve, then it is cos too many like yourself have plenty to say, but too few actually do anything about it in a constructive way. No, instead, guys like you prefer to pick holes in people who are investing their own time and energy doing things, finding stuff out and sharing information.
You have never even bothered to vote in a council election I understand. So who are you to comment on municipal projects and whether or not they should happen? The phrase ‘all mouth and no action’ springs to mind.
You have said somewhere on here that you are not willing to write an article to put your side of the story. And yet you think it’s OK to tell others how they should go about it. get a F**king grip.
Do you not see the irony in complaining about things that are not getting done while you yourself do f**k all of benefit to anyone but yourself?
You claim Mr Forbes lives in a ‘ramshackle farm’ and that it is not a working farm. You are wrong on both counts, and as you have never been to Mr Forbes’ home, you are not qualified to comment.
You make a lot of noise about people being of the ‘far left’ and yet you don’t know enough about any of the people you refer to qualify such a comment. However, as you are known to be a supporter of the EDL, I expect, next to you, nearly everyone including Trump and Margaret f**king Thatcher are of the ‘far left’.
I think George, just like the Donald you have admitted that you ‘love’, that you are a a source of hot air bubbling through a bellyful of s**te.
I know this is a forum for comments, and everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I can’t see what if any quality you add.
Gary, thanks for your eloquent response to George. You said it so much better than I would have!! And thanks for pointing out his affections for a racist organisation. All we get from him is that we are champagne socialists and extreme leftists without him ever actually taking any of our arguments seriously. I can’t be arsed with him any more. I’m away for a large Glenfiddich, slainte!
You don’t agree with my opinions so think I should be silenced, that’s fascist in the extreme, ironic seeing most here are daft socialists with stupid ideals that would never work in the real world, smash the rich, pay the poor etc etc! Move to North Korea and see how it works in practise!
I can see past the facade, no one really cares a damn about the golf course being built, what they care about is how a rich man they deem to be the enemy is building a course, they complain and shout about the treatment of his neighbours(not one of whom has been evicted) yet say not a peep when 15 families in their own City face being booted out of their homes.
The EDL link is tedious, I once liked a link slamming the poppy burning extreme islamists on facebook and now I’m an EDL supporter, that’s misinformation and damn right rude of you to try and blacken my name because I don’t agree with your opinion, typical far left reponse to any debate they’re losing.
Dear George – while I do refrain from posting on AV, here are some quotes from someone named George Smith from Facebook. There are screenshots backing each one up. Perhaps it is a different George Smith? If so, this George Smith has remarkably similar interests and views to your own:
1. “Keep digging Fred, I support the movement and its leadership, Tommy Robinson is inspirational, check out his speeches on you tube, I don’t support the bigots who sometimes tag on to them on facebook.”
Screenshot taken 19 September
2. “The EDL has no links to violence or hate based activities, I thought you would go behind the headlines before chucking generic Daily Mail style ranting at me, they are a non violent movement who campaign against the spread of radical islam and sharia law, I fully support them.”
Screenshot taken 19 September
3. “Nice dodge and I’m about as far removed from being a racist as anyone could get, I have coloured friends, on facebook as well as real life.”
Screenshot taken 19 September
4. “Fred, with the greatest of respect I know far more about the EDL than you, if some daft kid posts something on facebook it can’t be helped and shouldn’t reflect at all on the sterling work they are doing all over Britain.”
This George Smith seems to adore the EDL; it is quite a coincidence.
And that facebook page was very quick to exclude me from posting, well done on the out of context posts though, perhaps seeing as you’re impartial you’ll post the full exchanges so the readers here can make up their own mind?
As ever the extreme left bend over backwards to blacken the name of someone who debates with them in a civilised manner, I would never dream of snooping into the backgrounds of any of the people who have debated with me on here, no matter how much I disagree with them, as my position on a lot of things is so different I expect their lifes and political opinions to be different from mine as well.
For the benefit of doubt and incase the FULL conversation is not printed, I as I’ve said many times fully support the EDL in their fight against radical Islam, I despise seeing these people barrack our soldiers, burn poppies, blow up tube trains and buses etc, I have completely no problem with law abiding people of any faith or creed, pity Sussanah didn’t paste my post where i said I would be happy for Aberdeens new mosque to be built in my back garden, selective editing to blacken someones name, the art of Murdoch, now brought to you by the Aberdeen Voice! Whilst I agree with them I’m not a supporter nor member of them.
And that’s me done with this place, enjoy patting each other on the back in the future, I’m just an ordinary working man with a family that happens to disgaree with the way this paper has treated some people and the way it has campaigned against certain projects, if i can’t post without fear or favour then there is no point, my work wouldn’t take kindly to employing someone labled as a racist and I need work to pay the bills, thanks to all those who debated in a civilised manner.
Some very interesting points raised Susanne. Unelected quangos should never be in a position to dictate to government, local or national, that projects should simply be rubber stamped. Due process should always be followed. It is patently obvious that this was not the case in The City Garden project.
As you say at the beginning, “Aberdeen’s Granite Web is history.” Long may it stay that way.
I would like to add that even if I was the leader of the EDL I would still be allowed an opinion on any matter affecting my home town and should be allowed to air that view without my life being dug into, just yesterday one of the editorial people here posted my work details on Facebook, it only takes one radical opponent to my views to then take the next step of tracking down where I live and that puts my family in danger, please be more careful in the future before deciding to blacken someone’s name because they don’t agree with you on an issue.
Well, I see that George not only found the Tripping Up Trump page, but joined it and an hour after he submitted his first post the following message appeared from the page admin – “He has been removed from the group after being a member for less than an hour..”
Seems the man’s getting to be as popular as his angry role model!
Thinking about the Christmas good-will or lack of in Aberdeen. I heard a story, that when Marks & Spencer’s shelves had been emptied of their turkeys, customers started pinching turkeys out of other people’s trolleys!
Oh my goodness! Impressive article dude! Thank you, However I
am having issues with your RSS. I don’t know why I am unable to subscribe to it. Is there anybody having similar RSS problems? Anyone who knows the solution can you kindly respond? Thanx!!
Get a life min, I’ve lived in Aberdeen ower 60 years and never ever seen anything close to that ever happening, awa and eat yer nut roast an leave the res o us tae enjoy xmas. doon we trump and wood but nae we the good folk of aberdein,.
Bob I was told this when I worked in Marks & Spencer, by more than one senior member of staff. Perhaps if you came off your drugs, you might have a more realistic view of life in Aberdeen.
I was reading The Sunday Mail magazine Right At Home and it featured a Scottie Dog Harris Tweed cushion. Could you tell me if these are available to buy and how much they are? Thanks.
Yes they are available to buy although stocks are very low due to the demand coming up to Christmas. If you look on our Facebook page Crafty Things Scottie- land it will give you an idea of the colours of Harris Tweed we use and you can contact us Craftythings1@ googlemail.com
Saw one of the “Scottie dog cushions in a sunday paper. Would like to know the price of them as i would like to send two to my son for a house warming presant as they live in England. Would be grateful for a reply. Regards May Smart.
Thankyou for your interest in our Scottie Dog cushions. There are many colours available .We have a face book page Crafty Things Scottie-land which will give you an idea of some of the colours.please contact us at Craftythings1@googlemail.com.regards Jan Pearce
Thankyou for you’re interest in our Scottie Dog cushions. For an idea of colours you could have a look at our facebook page Crafty Things Scottie-land. And contact us on Craftythings1@googlemail.com. Regards Jan Pearce
Hello, I also saw your gorgeous Harris Tweed Scottie Dogs in the Sunday Mail and I would love to be able to purchase two.
Could you please advise how much these are and how I can purchase these?? Thank you.
Thank you for your message,we are so pleased you like our Scottie Dog cushions.please contact us at Craftythings1@googlemail.com or you can phone us on 07725855065.thanks Jan Pearce
Hi all, delighted that so many people like our Scottie Dog cushions. To contact us direct you can email craftythings1@gmail.com or visit our Facebook page Crafty Things Scottie-land.
Keep the orders coming. Dogs are £45 each plus postage and we have lots of other HarrisTweed products for sale, too. Maggie
Aye, I was lucky enough to attend a talk by Councillor Neil Cooney (Bob’s nephew) at Aberdeen College recently, and stirring stuff it was! Inspiring also that the working class of Aberdeen used to gather in their thousands to fight Fascism, on one magnificent occasion booting the Fascists’ collective arse all over the Castlegate before running them clean out of the city. If only such political awareness existed these days…
Do you realise how much the harbour affects the whole economy of the North East, if its at capacity it would be sheer folly to not extend, plenty other ports all over the Country will happily take up the slack but with that you’d see companies having to relocate and jobs being lost in Aberdeen. Please don’t make this important project another of the Aberdeen voices targets, with the oil industry in decline we need the harbour more than ever.
I note the SSSI tag has already been applied to the harbour project just like at Loirston and Menie, careful not to wear it out or the boy who cried wolf might come into play when something really important needs protecting.
Absolutely brilliant Dr Suz! You’ve said it all for us. I hope The Wooden Grinch takes note and drops his threats in his role as a very determined Grim Reaper still hovering over OUR Gardens in the coming year.
All very well extending the harbour Bob, but what happens to all this extra capacity when the oil runs done? New fields are to be developed West of Shetland, it appears. Are they likely to use Aberdeen harbour?
Significant development is ongoing at Peterhead. Surely spreading the work throughout the region would be no bad thing?
Well said Suz. Money is god. Greed is good and whatever you do don’t care a hoot about you’re fellow man. That’s what the great and the good seem to believe anyway. Our country is becoming more Americanised each decade. Do we really want to become as bankrupt as that nation in time. I wonder when the first Chinese US President will be appointed?
It is a great recording, the Laggan track is particularly stirring.
The talk n Aberdeen college was on Aberdonians in the Spansh civil War. I willbe repeating it as part of the Kings Museum lectures on the evening of Tuesday 5 February.
I’d be happy to give the notes to Aberdeen Voice if they think there is a wider audience for it.
Willie Young pledged at the last local election (merely Months ago) that he and his party were against the 3rd Don crossing, it’s the reason his party managed to scrape a coalition together as the areas around the proposed crossing all voted Labour. How can you as a supposed journalist be so blind as to ignore basic facts, fair enough it doesn’t suit your agenda as without Labour’s little white lie the SNP would have probably got into power and the City Garden Project would be happening but please don’t bend the truth.
In your defence on another issue; I’m really surprised you didn’t fall on the side of the poor car thiefs, I thought you’d be saying they wouldn’t be thiefs if it wasn’t for the nasty tories, what other options do they have etc etc……..no doubt some of your champagne socialist friends have nice Audi’s!
My elderly grandmother was in Rowan Court, she had jewelry and ornaments go missing, which were never recovered. I did speak informally with the social work inspectorate and decided to not to pursue the matter with the police in case there were repercussions against my grandmother.
I presume before writing your article you were aware Councillor Willie Young got voted in on the Bridge of Don ward, a ward of course that would have been particularly swayed by Labours manifesto pledge not to build a 3rd crossing and have all the extra roads through the ward that the bridge would have spawned. It makes your argument even more laughable that he only changed his mind after much thought due to the building work of the last Council, your argument isn’t even close to holding water infact its like a sieve with extra holes in it.
Labour went back on a manifesto pledge that will see many families kicked out of their lifetime homes through no choice of their own and the best you can say is you’re “unsure whether or not this crossing is a good idea”!! It doesn’t matter if it’s a good idea it was in Labours manifesto that it wouldn’t happen.
As an activist paper you see nothing wrong in this, shame on you, enjoy your brewdog beer tonight whilst more than a dozen families who were lied too worry what will become of them and their homes in the coming weeks.
One wonders how this paper would be reacting if Sir Ian Wood, Donald Trump or Stewart Milne were behind this bridge plan, I think we all know the answer to that.
Seems the blind mantra against certain rich people is more important than the real issues affecting real working class families in the area.
Great story, good factual points, and it still surprises me that the law enforcement agency is still dragging its feet, although I did hear tonight they have arrested a young lad for the theft & destruction of the Audi r5 that was stolen just a couple of days ago.
This does not mean anything to the people of Aberdeen, and the thieves out there, the residents are still angry, and scared, the thieves even more ambitious to go on their rampage of terror.
If a high profile outing of these so called “louts” is not forthcoming, I can see the power of Social Media sites like Facebook turning out yet another more frightening sequel to these events, vigilante groups, just like neighborhood watch, but a lot more violent.
Scary as it may sound, but that’s what I have been hearing, and if these people turn up at hospital saying a mob did it to them, then I saw nothing, i heard nothing, and i never will …..
It is generally accepted that a third Don crossing is required, the location of it is the problematic part. Is it wise to divert large traffic volumes through a housing estate? They could simply follow the seafront from The Black Dog or The Exhibition Centre, but that would lop a piece of a golf course – perish the thought – and be somewhat more expensive. Better to dump it on the deprived area of Tillydrone it seems.
The point about the new build housing at Mugiemoss is well made Suzanne. I seem to recollect that a certain guy named Stuart, well versed in house building, mentioned the possibility of a railway halt being included in the project. That sensible idea seems to have been lost along the way somewhere. The planners even allowed building right down to the existing road, so no chance of widening that either.
You forgot to mention the grandiose plans for George Square in Glasgow. Apparently they necessitate the re-emergence of that catastrophe proposed for Union Terrace Gardens. No doubt there will be an equally biased consultation and perhaps skewed referendum in Glasgow also. Labour won power, to a great degree, because they wanted to save the city from building any more carbuncles and the SNP lost. More than enough has been said on that dead issue. Strangely, the populace of Glasgow seem unimpressed with their traunch of “artists impressions.” where have we heard that before?
The ConDems have certainly made a few u turns, not to mention told a few porkies not previously mentioned in their manifesto. The easiest and probably best solution would be an overwhelming vote for independence in 2014. We booted them out of Scotland en masse in 1997. Let’s do the job properly this time as they never seem to learn.,
for a bit more clarity, this piece was specifically referring to the Press & Journal’s attack this past week on Willie Young for changing his mind from what it was in 2008. At the same time he voiced his opposition, he made it clear that he had to take the Labour Party’s line. Fast forward half a decade and a few hundred more homes later, and the picture has changed. I still can’t say I support this new crossing, but since we’ve permitted massive home building (more often than not on green space rather on brownfield), we do have to do something.
I do try not comment on these pages, but I did want to clarify this point. Another point worth reviewing is that even the greatest among us can perform U-Turns. No less a person than George Smith himself posted this on Aberdeen Voice some weeks back:-
“And that’s me done with this place, enjoy patting each other on the back in the future, I’m just an ordinary working man with a family that happens to disgaree with the way this paper has treated some people and the way it has campaigned against certain projects, if i can’t post without fear or favour then there is no point, my work wouldn’t take kindly to employing someone labled as a racist and I need work to pay the bills, thanks to all those who debated in a civilised manner.”
Nice to have you back, George, even if this return does constitute a U-Turn
An excellent article. I have been following a lot of the threads recently regarding motor theft in Aberdeen and couldn’t agree more with the point made here.
This is social media journalism at it’s best, thank you. We’ve the right to know these things-and now, thanks to you, we do. Clearly, you are keeping within the publishing laws regarding live cases, so one has to wonder why the local press did not also publish a more thorough and far-reaching investigation into what is clearly a huge problem in our city/shire at the moment.
I am concerned to see that you are concluding that “friends” of this page are partaking in the vehicle theft or in fact condoning it. When I first heard of this Facebook page I immediately went to have a look, only to find the page wall posts were private unless you became a “friend”. I was tempted to click that and would have done but only to see the wall posts and the discussions taking place by these vehicle thieves, does that make me an accessory to their crimes? Does it make my employer NHS Grampian an accessory to their crimes? Does it mean that my work as a nurse is poorly done and that I treat people poorly? Be careful of how you consider the “friends” of this page as they may just be inquisitive as a lot of the posts are not visible unless you do befriend the page.
As far as the rest of this article goes, it is so concerning for the residents of Aberdeen that these practices are not being tackled, I have heard reference to vigilante responses being the next step which concerns me even more.
As a family we have taken steps to enhance security at our house but to be completely honest, should an intruder still decide to somehow break into our house with the intention of theft of any item I am sure I will not confront them. I do not want to be beaten in my own home for trying to protect my belongings and I certainly do not want to end up with criminal charges for defending my home should I be given opportunity to do so. Its terrifying to think that if I picked up a household item and threw it at an intruder because I was scared for the lives of my children and my family I would be the one who ended up on the wrong side of the police.
My car was stolen two years ago i know who buy have told the police and they haven’t done anything despite me making 3 complaints against them now. they don’t want to lock these scumbags up becouse they are keeping them in a job.
This article seems to imply that the facebook page should be shut down- which would mean the police lose their richest source of evidence, leads and persons of interest- doesnt seem like a smart move to me…
Whilst I don’t agree with theft or crime, this article is poorly written and seems to miss the point. I also agree with Nurse that you cannot infer that ‘friends’ of said group partake in car theft and are are therefore a risk to people. Just saying.
Absolutely the kind of issue for which Aberdeen Voice is crying out. Somewhat diminished by assuming any Facebook page’s friends automatically sympathise with its aims. People have been known to ‘like’ pages run by those whose views they can’t abide simply to enable commenting (Barney Crockett Is A Disgrace To Democracy is a good example). They also ‘like’ pages promoting behaviour they wouldn’t dream of engaging in themselves because it’s vicarious online stuff, innit? But let’s imagine someone at the NHS looks through the group’s friends as a result of reading this and says: “Oh, there’s young Jimmy, the theatre orderly from Foresterhill.” Whether or not young Jimmy has ever had as much as a fleeting thought about stealing cars, the consequences could be dire. It’s the page admins and picture posters we should be trying to expose, not where people work. Also a bit concerned by the author’s assertion that: “If these people willingly advocate theft, then this indicates an elevated risk to the people in their care.” Really? Some of the most professional, dedicated, competent and compassionate people I’ve ever known have been complete nutters that got up to all sorts off duty. Otherwise informative. Might be in the P&J by Christmas.
No one voted me in to post here, that’s the big difference, I can change my mind at will. If I’d made a manifesto stating I’d never post here again I wouldn’t.
You keep backing Mr Young and ignore the lies, it makes for fun reading seeing you try and defend the indefensible. .
The families facing compulsory purchase orders won’t find it funny and this is why I’ll continue to post, I wouldn’t have the need if this activist paper was doing its job properly.
The existing bridge at Persley should be widened to have twin lanes on each side and the road widened right up to the haudagain, the Parkway should also be widened, this could be done without kicking loads of families out of their homes and would avoid putting a major road through a housing estate.
I have to agree with your last points George. The land exists to dual The Parkway and The Persley Bridge could either be widened, or a second bridge built adjacent to provide for dualling there (this has been proposed for The Bridge of Dee for manys a long year). Of course, none of this is practical until The “Haudupagain” is resolved and there seems no hurry on that one either.
Such a shame our planners and politicians (of all shades) hadn’t a bit more foresight fifty years ago. Had they pressed for a branch rail line from Woodside/Persley over The Don, to serve the burgeoning Bridge of Don Estates, many of the traffic issues would not have arisen. Even now, The Aberdeen Crossrail scheme keeps getting kicked in to the long grass, even when, at minimal cost, it could implemented, using existing infrastructure by simply extending trains from the North to Stonehaven and some of those from the South to Inverurie. New build halts at Bucksburn, Woodside, Cove and Newtonhill would only cost around £15m, much less than The City Garden Project and of much more use to Aberdonians.
Willie Young is between a rock and a hard place. He knows something needs to be done and done fast, but he has to consider his constituents as well. I certainly wouldn’t like to be in his position.
George, rather than moderate this post and have you once again crying foul, We will simply point out to you and other readers that the role of Aberdeen Voice as an organisation has been explained to you on several occasions. As you appear to have some difficulty taking this information on board, we will state again.
Far from being an ‘activist paper’, we are an online publication which is open to a wide range of writers and opinions associated with Aberdeen and the North East …. including those of ‘activists’.
Our job has also been explained to you and can be read on our front page.
We have in the two and a half years of our existence published almost every single article contributed, accomodating charities, artists, musicians, community facilities and events, historical pieces, environmental projects, sport, health and fitness, creative writing, humour, and much more.
Bearing in mind that out of 1318 articles contributed, we have published 1297, I think we are doing pretty well – and all done by volunteers from top to bottom.
Therefore it is surely clear that your judgement that we are not doing our job properly is utter nonesense, but as you are so fiercely defensive of your freedom of speech, we’ll leave it as is and allow others to make up their own minds on the evidence which is easily accessible to all.
All the same, nice to see you back in the mix George.
— “What, if any, law was violated by Ms Ross is unknown.”
This is wrong, I don’t have it on hand (search Google and you’ll find it) but it is illegal to post “offensive” messages online and you can be imprisoned for up to 6 months for it.
However my guess is they asked her not to inflame the situation, boring sure but the likely answer.
Here we go again. The great and the good decide what the “ordinary man on the street” needs and wants. Perhaps a referendum of Glaswegians will resolve the problem and save £15m in the process unless, that is, it is run in the same way as that in Aberdeen which was, quite frankly, a farce, with the public ignored at every stage until the desired result was gotten.
Trump can’t defeat nature, and it looks like it’s taking the course back from him. Is the planting of marram grass a realistic defence for the forces faced by the east coast? Although, I don’t suppose dear old Trump has had time to consider this now that his primary focus is wind farms located several miles away… in the sea.
“My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away
Ok, lets call it off …. Aberdeen Voice does not like to over moderate or censor, but the comments facility is not a forum for namecalling …. please focus comments on the article.
Please note though.
@Mike. We passed your comment re Irish with some reluctance, but gave you the benefit of the doubt in terms of the promise of local jobs, and the non-materialisation of same. We are hopeful that Irish readers will see it similarly and not take offence.
@Roger Daltry. In view of the above, I can accept your judgement of Mike’s statement as Xenophobic. I do find your post to R Eric Swanepoel ( ie his apt quote from Shelley’s Ozymandias ) unnecessarily confrontational tho, but in spite of the choice language, have allowed you to express your view.
@sweet cheeks, in view of the above, your response is understandable.
@All …. IIn spite of the reluctance to censor and/or over-moderate, if the level of debate deteriorates any further, posts will be removed in order that the majority can read the comments section without having to suffer exchanges of a distasteful nature.
As for the moderator…Are you perhaps a bible school teacher on the side?…True that rudeness on the comment section CAN be a problem…But it makes for fun reading watching adults snap at each other.
Did you really believe that you could print a story about a loudmouth American douche and not get SOME rude comments?… ( * Overt racist comment removed by Moderator )
Sweet cheeks gets a thumbs up by the way.
Anyways, to all much love from Monterey California.
Surely Moderator, it is of no great surprise the kind of comments you are receiving given the manner in which you have written the above article. It’s naive to believe otherwise. Hope all works out well for you though and that you resolve your differences in the locality. A big challenge ahead for all it seems.
No Ballanced, not a surprise, and as you will observe, we DO allow a lot of scope for readers to express their views, and do NOT like to moderate at all if we don’t have to.
But there are laws, and there are commonly understood boundaries of taste and decency which we are bound by in the same way as any other publication, and are obliged to observe and act upon.
Our request for a little restraint was in order that we can allow heartfelt exchanges to continue without having to intervene. We do prefer to present reader’s comments in their entirity.
The site was never going to be ideal for the proposed development. Perhaps Mr Trump should have listened to some of the advice he was offered instead of stubbornly persisting in his plans. None of us is more powerful than nature or immune to its acts of capriciousness, no matter how wealthy or important we might believe ourselves to be.
I have to ask, why is this not in any newspapers or online news sites yet? Surely you guys should have reported it to the BBC or someone similar? This is a story worthy of sharing! Many Scottish people will delight in this hilarity 🙂
( * In short Lynnski, Aberdeen Voice appear to be one of few, if not the only local media outlet interested in keeping the public updated on the REAL news from Menie. However, expect to see this story spill out tomorrow as many established media outlets will be picking it up. More from Menie coming soon in AV – Moderator )
Its a disgrace that he ever was allowed to build there, I hope that land is never used for golf but is always known as ‘trumps invasion” and our grandchildrens grandchildren will tell thier grandchildren about the frizzy haired twat who tried to ruin a beautiful landscape for his own profit
That was one of the most beautiful stretches of coast in the country and now it will never be the same again. Im glad for all the problems this is causing Mr Trump and his thugs but I feel very sorry for all the people who live on the estate who have had to put up with all this. My other main gripe with this sorry affair is the role of Grampian police who appear to nothing more than Trumps lackies. I would like to propose that a part of the site be used for a yearly festival of music and the arts. Cash raised could be used to help the area get back to some semblence of normality. Although he has destroyed a large swaith of the area.
Trump is always been an over leaveraged ‘pretend I am wealthy’ guy. His whole empire is a house of cards that when his creditors decide to pull the pin then thats that, as has happened in the past.
I found this on Facebook! Live in USA, celebrating with Mother Nature. The bigger they are, the harder they fall (permaculture principle in a form of a traditional proverb). Trump has declared bankruptcy at least twice before. I’m amazed that ANYONE will lend him any money.
Yes I agree with Nurse and JM. As an employer I would be more concerned with the vigilanties, as some of these thieves family members who have done everything possible, regarding their son/daughter/brother/sister’s behaviour may work alongside the victims of car crime.
Upon reading the vigilanties comments would they adopt the same attitude at work and resort to bulling/violence in the workplace.
I believe the police used the theives pages as evidence and subsequently this lead to arrests, things seemed to get worse after vigilanties started up.
I also am aware that insurance companies were going to be putting their premiums up anyway, this just gave them an excuse.
Word came a few hours ago – the residents are told the road in question will be closed tomorrow and Friday; hopefully this is for repair work. Aberdeen Voice will report on this development when more news is in.
I think many residents in many different countries have had their environment and livelihood wrecked permanently and irrevocably by psychopathic FAT CATS. They have lived sustainably and understand how everything works around them. I think is is equally worrying that local and national governments not only stand by, but assist in the destruction in an effort to be FAT CATS themselves, sitting in their mansions with their pensions.
I totally agree, any repairs will come apart when the water freezes!!!! A colleague of mine at work stated that it is perfectly legal for someone to divert water off their property even if it causes hardship to a neighbour, that cant be right surely?
I do not agree what there doing but I think your completely wrong in saying that some people who are friends with them work with that companys, just because there friends with them on Facebook has no importance with who they work for or if they know each other! that statement can lead to a few people being dismissed from there occupation due to you not getting your facts correct! A lot of people on social media websites like this just add them to be nosey to see what there written etc. and to egg them on at times!
When are we going to get councillors and Members of the Scottish Parliament who insist that the police and planning enforcement officers enforce the law? When we vote for them.
Great series of articles, Suzanne. I particularly like your final quote from David Milne, re trees: “Your first clue that they won’t grow is that there aren’t already any here”. Shades of Tullos Hill!
Would I be right in saying that it is almost time for you (Susan) to have a large gathering for like minded people over to your house for a wee chat/catch up/sing song – or would you need your invitation list vetted by your neighbours?
You might be interested to see that Trump has also managed to get sacked from managing Trump Place in NY – one of his own flagship developments because he couldn’t maintain it!
Donald Trump – the gift that keeps on giving – All together now ….. ” YOU’RE FIRED!” ….. I refuse to abbreviate in the worn out way, but I am genuinely laughing out loud at this…. well, at least I was until I started typing 🙂 … perhaps I should finish with WGLOLUIST ( Was genuinely laughing out loud until I started typing )
While you acknowledge that the details of the case concerning a nurse who found a child wandering around ‘presumably’ after being left alone in a car “are unclear,” I’m at a loss to understand how you can question the outcome of a hearing conducted by her professional body when, by your own admission, you are not in possession of the facts.
Oh and by the way, her professional body is the Royal College of NursING not the Royal College of NursES – a fact that I would have thought would be fairly easy for a serious journalist to get right.
Thanks for pointing out the error regarding the Royal College of Nursing, which I have now fixed. We’re not perfect (writers, sub editors, editors); from the Aberdeen Voice to the top UK printed papers, errors do occur. Please do keep pointing them out.
However, I do feel perfectly comfortable questioning a system which decides that a woman who got things wrong, but potentially saved a child from an automobile accident or abduction, is immediately struck off, when that same system takes time to think about whether a convicted murderer and proven liar belongs nursing the sick. Note that I’m not condemning the College; I am just questioning the wisdom applied in these two situations. If authority is in the right, then there is no problem with questioning authority. Sadly, all too often authority is not perfect and is not always right. I’d say one of the more important functions of newspapers (even satirical pieces like this column) is to question authority.
Firstly, the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) is her ‘professional body’ in that it is the one which will provide representation for her and her colleagues in any action taken against them by either their employer or their regulatory body (in other words, her trade union).
On the other hand it is the regulatory body – The Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) – which makes decisions relating to nurses and midwives being suspended from or struck off, the Nursing Register.
It might also be helpful to note here that the system in place does not allow a nurse/midwife to be, in your words, “immediately struck off” the Nursing Register i.e. punitive measures can only be taken as the result of both a full investigation and a formal hearing.
Secondly, from the reports I have been able to find in the press, the nurse in question was sacked by her employer and ‘suspended’ (not ‘struck off’) by the NMC – although perhaps you have further information which I have been unable to find. It is also unclear whether the suspension from the Register is action taken following an official hearing – in which case she will have the right of appeal against the decision – or whether it is a temporary suspension while the matter is investigated.
She will also, no doubt, have had the benefit of a two or three stage process – with appeals at each stage – against her employer terminating her employment.
It may well be that this nurse has been wrongly accused of a misdemeanour and the action taken against her has been flawed.
On the other hand it may be that, rather than her actions being seen as having “potentially saved a child from an automobile accident or abduction,” the disciplinary process conducted by her employer and the investigation and any hearing, conducted by the NMC, found that her actions actually put the child at greater risk, or that she was, in some way, guilty of some greater misdeed.
My point is that while, to use your words again, the “details are unclear,” WE JUST DON’T KNOW!
So while I don’t have a problem with your view that questions should be asked about a convicted murderer being allowed to remain on the Nursing Register, I do have concerns about you juxtaposing it against a case of which, I would argue, none of us have all the facts – a tactic that smacks a bit of the devices employed in Mr Murdoch’s publications.
We appear to have reason to celebrate. The City Garden “project” has had the coffin lid firmly screwed down on it, according to friday’s Evening Express. Will there be wails of anguish at ACEF I wonder, or will they continue to embarrass themselves supporting a costly white elephant? The illustrious Mr Kootis heading for patures new. Perhaps a wise move for all concerned. That nation has been known to resolve “annoyances” with the use of a rope, or a hail of bullets so perhaps Mr Koot may feel somewhat constrained. Ah well.
While Suzanne may have made a slight error in describing the organisation that regulates nurses, perhaps Brian is being a bit harsh. We are all fallable. I am sure he makes his own little “errors” from time to time, as we all do. At the end of the day, the public, in the main, are supportive of the common sense exercised by the nurse in question. The main thing is the child was saved from potential serious injury, and that’s what matters. Hopefully a rethink on high will see her re-instated to her profession.
Have to agree with all you say this week Suzanne, excepting, perhaps, the referencesto canings. I can think of a few tauregs who regularly give a one. or two fingered salute to the legal system. Now a sound caning might bring about a change in their ways. They might not feal weal good afterward. I seem to recollect a young Glaswegian, birched on The Isle of Man some years ago. He was never heard of again. Might be something to corporal punishment after all. It certainlynever did me anu harm at school and with the lack of options for teachers to keep control nowadays, perhaps the re-introduction of the tawse would be no bad thing, along with the added benefit that those children intent on learning might not have their opportunity to do so wrecked by the feral minority.
Who better to vote than 16 and 17 year olds. Any legislation is likely to affect them more than those of mature years. Another excellent idea eminating from Scotland. Westminster has, indeed.a lot to learn from Scotland. Shame they don’t have the inginuity to some up with such ideas themselves. Never mind, after independence we’ll be able to bring them, kicking and sqealing “Rule Brittania!” in to the 21st century.
Nice to see another Old Suzannah column from you and, as usual, one enabled for comments. It’s just a pity that you appear to take little notice of comments posted – I’m still waiting for your answer from you on the errors I pointed out in your last column. It also seems that my last post, although published at the time, has strangely disappeared, so here it is again –
“Well Suzanne, it seems it’s not too difficult to find out some truths surrounding this case as I can tell you that, since posting my last response, I have managed to discover that the nurse in question has been suspended from the register for six months – not “STRUCK OFF PERMANENTLY” as you had it – following a hearing by the NMC.
“This decision was apparently based on the panel’s finding that her, “actions and behaviour breached the standards expected of a registered nurse and are a serious departure from good practice.”
“Oh yes and you might also be interested to learn that it appears the ‘incident’ actually happened in May, 2010 – over two and a half years ago – so the matter has been under consideration for some time and the decision to suspend did not, therefore, have any element of your “IMMEDIATELY” about it.
“It also appears that she is currently considering an offer from Cameron Fife to make a legal challenge to this ruling. So the outcome to this story may well be that the NMC have made the wrong decision and she will be re-instated on the Register, an outcome I would certainly wish her well in achieving.
“Until then it would be good if journalists could stick to the known facts – that is the REAL facts not the made up ones which suit the story they’re trying to get their readers to believe.”
Brian, there is a very good explanation why your previously published post disappeared, and also why it may appear to you that Suzanne takes little ‘notice of comments posted’.
On Monday evening, due to an outage at our host, the server containing all data for the AV site went down. we were offline from then until yesterday afternoon, the site only becoming apparently stable last night.
Bearing in mind the apparent desperation to get an answer to your post, I’m surprised you did not notice that the site went ‘missing’ for 4 days.
Aware as I am of what Suzanne had planned for the days your comment was up, I am not sure she will have been aware of your post .. let alone found the time to reply or discuss making amendments to the post.
I hope this clears things up and in view of the circumstances, I hope you will be patient. As well as reading posts, we are busy catching up with work we have been unable to carry out for most of the last week.
Thanks Fred at Aberdeen Voice. I think I’ve been patient, but 5 days on from your response and zilch!
I would have thought that pointing out the error of reporting that the ROYAL COLLEGE OF NURSING had STRUCK a nurse OFF the nursing register PERMANENTLY and with some immediacy, when in fact it was the NURSING AND MIDWIFERY COUNCIL who SUSPENDED her from the nursing register FOR SIX MONTHS over two years after the event would have resulted in some sort of apology or retraction, but it seems Aberdeen Voice reporters aren’t too keen on owning up to errors of fact in their columns.
The golf course is build on flattened sand dunes, which are essentially shifting sands, facing the cold, unforgiving, treacherous North Sea. Trees do not survive when facing a continuous barrage of biting, furious salt spray. The sea and the dunes will reclaim its own, and it might not take too long. Look at Troon golf Course and St Andrew’s golf course, they are not surrounded by mansions by any means, but by typical Scottish flats and houses. Those fine builders respected the local residents. By trying to bury and surround houses in banks of soil, has created an eyesore beyound belief. Most golfers respect fairness and fair play.The dunes will return. The dunes have been there since time imemorial and they will come back, in time.
Terrible to leave the road in that mess. And leave residents stressed and unable to use a road they have been used to for so long. I only hope that all they have done wrong will catch up with them in the end.
When, in the name of all that is right and decent, are those awful tips of soil, placed around Susan Munro’s lovely sea side home, going to be removed? This will only attract vermin, and create health hazards of the worst type. When the rats arrive and breed, they will not head to the sea, but they will expand their colony up at Trump’s clubhouse, where there is ample food and shelter for them.
PS – Alicia Bruce will have a show of her Menie Estate photography at the Scottish Parliament show during ‘Scottish Environment Week’ in the members lobby. Aberdeen Voice will have further information on the show in due course; sadly, it will not be open to the public. Her work can also be seen in ‘You’ve Been Trumped.’
Any newspaper in the land – given the state of print advertising revenues – would have bitten the Trump organisations’ hand off at the prospect of a full page advert. 2 people have met, fallen in love, got married. Surely some congratulations might have been more appropriate rather than another article criticising the local press. I also feel that the comments about financial gain of the people involved is very cynical, and quite crass to be frank.
The paper can choose their editorial policy – it is up to them what they choose to report & what to support It would be financial suicide in the current climate – indeed any climate – to jeopardise potential revenue through additional paper sales / ad revenues by standing against something potentially lucrative for them. If they felt that this was in the best interests of the area and – ultimately – sells papers and generates ad revenues then fair play to them. I worked at Aberdeen Journals when the story broke and it did sell a large number of extra papers – throughout the varying twists and turns of the story.
It should also be mentioned that Derek Tucker – former p&J editor – was also on the PCC, so perhaps Mr Bates is solely taking on the role which he had. And really, the PCC is a toothless brigade anyway, so they hardly merit a mention.
On a final note, it’s DC Thomson, not DC Thompson – apologies for being pedantic, but i’ve seen this mis spelled on a number of your articles.
Bob, no paper with integrity would have accepted that advert. Not one. It was in horrendously bad taste. Rather than blaming the “current climate” for every piece of selling-out, perhaps it would be better to change tact and try and attract more readers?
There is nothing crass about pointing out a conflict of interest. In fact it should have been done by the paper/editor it/himself, that way people would have more trust in the reporting.
[blockquote cite=”Bob Smith”]It would be financial suicide in the current climate – indeed any climate – to jeopardise potential revenue through additional paper sales / ad revenues by standing against something potentially lucrative for them[/blockquote]
Wow. That expresses perfectly why I don’t read the P&J. I can’t think of anything redeeming in that attitude.
“In fact it should have been done by the paper/editor it/himself, that way people would have more trust in the reporting.”
I couldn’t disagree more – this is their personal lives and should be set aside from their working lives. I’ve do doubt they are trying to attract more readers, but in the current marketplace, where digital is king (and the environment that Aberdeen Voice operates in), they have to look to maximise every single sales opportunity.Ultimately, it is a business.
Every penny is a prisoner in the printed media at the moment so they have to look at the top line (although evidently this isn’t making much difference giving the payoffs that are going on, but thats another story.)
Not exactly. What I am saying is, if you are running a business that depends to a great extent on advertising revenues – be these print or digital – then you would be foolish to turn down the opportunity to take advantage of one off sales. Put yourself in this situation – if your business was of this nature and and an opportunity made itself available, would you turn it down on moral grounds and potentially jeopardise the employment of your members of staff? Or would you take the moral high ground and potentially damage your business? There is a big difference between “selling your soul” (i’m paraphrasing), and keeping your revenue / turnover / etc up.
Sorry if this isn’t a standpoint that you agree with, but this is reality.
Excellent article. These connections between people who side with the ‘elites’ are not uncommon. It is the old power corrupts adage. Many of these individuals get on in life by being ‘plucked’ from relative obscurity.
What is the threshold for refusing/questioning advertising revenue?
With many other Aberdonians, I stopped buying the Press and Journal and Evening Express, when they attacked the councillors who questioned Donald Trump’s development. And, I would love to see legal action and or an enquiry being made against the P&J and EE, failing that all of us have a duty to boycott these papers, discourage others from buying them and stop shopping and paying for services with those who advertise within their pages.
I have wondered why compaints about the Press and Journal have not been upheld by the Press Complaints Commission, now I know the reason why.
Ex D C Thomson employee Bob Smith sums up the myopic complacency of his ilk when he states that he considers Ms Kelly’s thoughtful and well referenced critique to be “crass” but thinks that bullying, intimidation, vitriolic personal abuse and character assassination, not to mention factually inaccurate reporting by journalists to be acceptable on the basis that it leads to additional revenue. Talk about missing the point!!!!
No, not missing the point. Nor myopic , though i do have a bit of a googly eye! Could you elaborate on my “ilk”? And, I also don’t recall stating that “bullying, intimidation, vitriolic personal abuse and character assassination, not to mention factually inaccurate reporting by journalists to be acceptable on the basis that it leads to additional revenue.” You have paraphrased this wholly incorrectly.
I don’t really think there is any need to elaborate Bob. Your praise for Dan’s contribution does that for me. I have read your comments again and believe that I have paraphrased them accurately. Should you really be unable to understand what you, yourself, have written then it may be time for you to think of alternative methods of expressing your views or, perhaps, of asking a friend to help you.
If you don’t want to elaborate, thats fine. I’m just interested as to what my “ilk” are like and why my views are myopic – you’ve decided to not answer my direct question. I like how you’ve singled out my praise for the only other contributor on this page who does not agree with anyone else. I understand exactly what I’ve written, but you have taken to misinterpreting this. I’m not advocating bullying, intimidation, etc. I’m impressed with your recommendation of looking at an alternative method of expressing my views – does this mean you feel that my contributions are not welcome on this partiuclar forum as they do not agree with yours? Perhaps I am paraphrasing this incorrectly 😉 (seems to be a common theme!). Your hilarious aside at the end about getting someone to help me was excellent as well and partiuclarly well thought out.
YAAAAAWN!!! For a place criticises the standard of news in the local press, this sure is a classic case of pot calling the kettle black. I’ve known they were seeing each other for ages. I thought it was common knowledge. The fact they’re married now is a bit more current, but how come you never revealed their relationship before? And if you did, how does is the fact they’re now married change anything?
Look, I this website carries hugely biased anti-Trump news and the P&J carries hugely biased news that’s pro-Trump. They point to surveys that claim the majority of the North-east public backs the development, you point to surveys that says the North-east public are against the development.
Who cares? Just as your website is entitled to take a stand on an issue it believes in, our Press are allowed to do exactly the same.
Believe it or not, A LOT of the public either support or don’t give two hoots what Donald Trump does. I’m sorry that hard for you to comprehend, but outside of you “lefties” – just as sweeping a generalisation as calling those in favour of the development “elites” – NO ONE CARES ANY MORE! It’s built! The local press like the idea of the course. Whether that’s for its own selfish reasons or because it believes the public in general also support it, WE WILL NEVER KNOW.
The idea of wishing the newspaper be prosecuted for holding views you don’t agree with is such a right wing, bordering on Nazi mindset, is frankly bizarre and an embarrassment to your cause.
#Dan –“No one cares any more” Ye wint tae git oot mair afen min. Try tellin the Forbes, Milne and Munro faimilies aat naebody cares onymair The support they git in their fecht agin the
hassle an intimidation they still experience is conseederable. Its only the local paper scribes an Trumpie’s “forelock touchin serfs” that wint fowk tae think naebody cares onymair. I bliddy care an I ken a helluva lot mair fowk faa care. O aye an a’m nae a ” leftie” jist a mannie faa’s bin aroon fer a fyow decades an faa cares aboot democracy. Somethin fit his bin missin in N.E Scotland fer a fair fylie.
“The Poetry Mannie”
Very Interesting.
Hope the travellers set up camp at or very close to the trump course when its an important game on.
i guess that malone woman must be good at something lol
Dan, Dan, Dan, if you don’t like what is printed in AV, why do you read it? Perhaps you are yet another lackey of thatched heid?
I care a lot about this whole saga. It is shocking from start to finish and there should have been an independent inquiry into Trump, ACC, Grampian Police, Aberdeen Journals and the Scottish governments handling of this affair.
When the little man is bullied by some rich oxygen thief like Trump and the aforementioned sit idly by and ignore, or in some cases, help, we have major issues.
Iggy: “Dan, Dan, Dan, if you don’t like what is printed in AV, why do you read it?”
The same goes for you and the P&J. Why don’t YOU stop reading it? I presume you’re going to come back and say “But I already have stopped reading it” – in which case I don’t consider you a reliable person to be calling for an inquiry into its handling of the affair, given you haven’t even been reading the paper and therefore have no way of knowing what it’s being doing.
It’s like complaining about a TV show and then admitting you haven’t actually watched it.
Poetry mannie:
When I said “nobody cares” of course I didn’t mean the people whose homes were threatened by the course. They have every right to hate what he’s done. I just meant, in the grand scheme of things, most of the people of the North-east would rather worry about more important things than a stupid golf course, which has already been built.
You forgot to put in your article that Sarahs father Councillor Tom Malone gave away the bride and that he has also been sitting on the committee regarding the windfarm project, but they say there is no conflict of interest as he doesn’t work for Trump, no he doesn’t but his daughter does.
Hello Minime – thanks indeed. Have also looked at his register of interests, doesn’t say anything about a family interest in this massive development/environmental problem. Of course, the rules don’t say you have to disclose interests related to an immediate family member (but some feel ethically it would be better to do so). Don’t worry though, we’re having a good look at voting / other involvements. A very valid point indeed. PS – I believe the mother is also involved with Aberdeenshire Council.
Thta is interesting. Come on Aberdeen Voice, you might be ahead as far as reporting on a wedding is concerned, but you appear to be falling behind a Joe Punter select.
Dear Gary thanks very much; I’ll certainly be looking into whether or not Tom Malone, whose daughter’s employer is against wind farms, has refused every application so far – that would be extremely interesting. Cheers!
I am not off track Gary, yes look at his voting and that of his cronies Cllrs Gardiner & Buchan suprise they will vote the same as him. He should not be allowed to sit on any committee that has dealings with Mr Trump there is a conflict of interests indirect or not. Yes I believe his wife does work for the council in housings or social work.
It’s sad when potentially what was almost a good debate turns into a slagging match really. No wonder people don’t post on forums/fora (whichever is correct) as often as they used to, because god forbid your view doesn’t match someone elses.
If anyone needs unequivocal evidence of the P&J acting as a mouthpiece for Trump’s lies, look no further than their front page spread of 3rd November 2010. Here they published Trump’s vitriolic outburst against Mollie Forbes, calling her home ‘a trailer’, ‘an eyesore’ and ‘an environmental hazard’, and calling for it to be demolished. To publish this unprovoked and completely unfounded personal attack on a pensioner’s home, without challenge and without a shred of evidence or a grain of truth, was a disgraceful attempt to misuse a newspaper’s influence, to mis-inform their readers, and a great discredit to journalism. The P&J was once a fine newspaper. Sadly, with the coming of Trump, it sold its soul to the devil and lost all credibility.
It should also be pointed out that that P&J article was published long before Bates was editor.
And why can’t we have some restrained, non-hyperbolic debate here? The P&J “sold its soul to the devil”?! You people need to calm down. As I said earlier – it’s only a golf course.
Some people were for it, some people were against it. That’s the same with every planning issue. Nobody has sold their soul to the devil. Saying stuff like that undermines your argument and makes you sound like a reactionary loon.
I’ve just done a search on the Press and Journal’s online wedding announcement section, nothing has come up for “Bates” or “Malone”, if the editior did not want to announce this in his own paper, is that not a bit strange?
Also, as I refuse to buy the above mentioned tabloid rag, can someone tell me please if there was even an article about the wedding within it.
There is always and has always been opposition to things. We had tremendous opposition to the building of canals, railways with land owners refusing to sell their land so huge extra costs were incurred a too expensive parliament ,by -passes, Union street the Marischal college. I could go on but you get the drift. Life is too short for this petty provincial squabble, to all concerned in the hot air comments grow up it’s not important get over it things will never be as we would wish them to be.
“Life is too short for this petty provincial squabble” —–If it wis jist a petty provincial squabble fit wye did thon mannie John Swinney stick his beak in and declare the development wis o national importance? An I dinna think Trumpie himsel thinks it a petty provincial squabble fin he keeps haein a go at “Wee Eck” ower the biggin o a wind fairm near his placie Bit fit IS at stake here is democracy an the richt o fowk tae lead their lives as they see fit withoot haein tae pit up wi aa the harassment an intimidation, the Menie faimilies hiv tae pit up wi.
A’m an avid gowfer, bit the wye aathing wis processed bi the local cooncil an the Scottish Government efter the “EE” managed tae instigate the seckin o Martin Ford fair stuck in ma craw. Aa fer the sake o protectin the future advertisin revenue they thocht micht cum their wye fae The Donald and his local business cronies Democracy rules in the N.E?
Dinna mak me bliddy laach!!!! Fit rules in the N.E nooadays is foo muckle siller can be made at the expense o some ither puir bugger.
The Poetry Mannie
Another vibrant and dynamic week perhaps, but I still await a response to my comments on the significant errors of fact in Old Susannah 109, which were published at the end of both that column and Old Susannah 110 (or would that not be vibrant and dynamic enough?)
Brian / anyone who’s not sure what your post refers to: In OS No. 109 200 words were devoted to Nurse Nicola Cheyne, the woman who was sacked and who is fighting to get her registration back. The same week, a newspaper reported that a convicted murderer could possibly be allowed to stay in the nursing profession. (See OS No. 109 for the 200 words I devoted to the subject) The juxtaposition of these two nurse stories appeared in local media and were a popular topic of discussion at the time; this is where my opinion came from. I am indebted to Brian for first pointing out an error (my reference to ‘Royal College of Nurses’ should have of course been ‘Nursing’). Brian then kindly posted again, and in great detail claimed I have made’significant errors of fact’. I thought I was simplifying and summarising in the quest for brevity.
I’m always happy to correct errors, but with Brian’s corrections already posted, I saw no need to beat a dead horse and turn it into burgers and lasagne. I had assumed that losing registration as a nurse was in some way the equivalent of being struck off, and I had also thought this had happened immediately (the initial articles did not say anything about the case being old). http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/sacked-nurse-fights-to-win-back-registration.html I don’t agree these are gross factual errors, sorry.
This column is a diary and a satirical round-up of topical issues with observations. While accuracy is the goal (as well as sarcasm and satire), errors do happen. The comments Brian posted serve exactly the way for instance Private Eye’s letter page serves – to let the public make any comments and corrections which they feel Private Eye articles deserve. The Eye staff hardly ever feel the need to comment further to published letters. Mostly, the PE staff seem to feel the need with getting on with the next issue, and other articles/columns. As do I.
I am happy to bow to Brian’s detailed knowledge; please do read his corrections if you are interested, and weigh my 200 words and the point I was making with them. The point seems to still remain valid.
Most people who’ve expressed an opinion to me think is the main issue, not whether ‘sacked’ or ‘struck off’ or ‘suspended’ or the time frame are the relevant points: 1. Murderer and apparent liar? RCN needs to think about whether such a person is a fit nurse. 2. Nurse who took an unaccompanied child with her and was later thanked by the father for her actions, even if they were not to the letter of what she was expected to do? RCN has taken away her registration (or whatever the exact correct term is) and she was sacked from her job. Aside from my lack of nursing knowledge, which I think is forgivable given the media coverage; the issue under examination is this rather disturbing unfairness.
Brian, if you were led into thinking that I am in some Aberdeen Voice office somewhere, working away full-time writing and researching, and am able 24/7 to issue corrections on issues which are already corrected by comments posted(and which do not in any way alter the substance of the point I’m making in a diary column), you’d be wrong. In fact I try not to comment on these pages at all; I believe they are primarily meant for reaction and discussion by readers. You would be more than welcome to write a piece on this nursing case or indeed any other issue you wish; we’ll get it published.
To sum up – take Brian’s comments over mine as to the ins and outs of Cheyne’s suspension and how the RCN works. Take my observation as to the fairness of the big picture as being what the column is addressing. Hope this helps; for me, alas, this is the end of this matter. Tally Ho! – OS
That’s me well and truly told then. My own fault I suppose for having the temerity to even suggest that the queen of the Aberdeen Voice might have got some facts wrong in the satirical column which she appears to suggest ranks with those found in Private Eye. (Please excuse me while I stifle a guffaw!)
I would say, however, that like Old Susannah I am not a nurse and, as a result, do not have ‘detailed knowledge’ of the subject. On the other hand, unlike Old Susannah, I managed to unearth the facts relating to this case by doing a wee bit of research.
(RESEARCH: noun – “diligent and systematic inquiry, or investigation, into a subject in order to discover, or revise, facts, theories, applications etc,” – you know, the kind of thing we expect competent journalists do.)
Oh yes and we did get the point of your comparison Susannah – the only problem was that you either failed to do your homework or chose to misrepresent the details of one of the cases in order for it to fit your line of reasoning.
But, as I’m sure you’ve said many times about P&J articles you disagree with, why let the facts spoil a good story!
Tullos Hill is not the only location where deer are being slaughtered unnecesssarily. On 4 occassions in as many weeks, deer have been killed at the Back o’ Bennachie. It has been done by Forestry Commission Scotland (FCS) rangers under cover of darkness. They drive along the logging roads using high powered spotlights to find the deer before shooting them. The deer are gutted where they fall and the entrails left there to be found by any passing dogs – the area is very popular with dog walkers. As with Tullos Hill., no warning signs have ever been posted at the entrances to the forest. to let people know that guns are being fired in a public place.
very valid points, and goodness knows why previously stable deer populations are now being targeted (literally) and cruel methods of population controls (if needed at all for creatures which live 6-7 years on average) are pushed by the SNH (in my opinion). I believe there were though at one time some farily clear direct signs used at Bennachie, as opposed to ambiguous signs at Tullos. In summary, very happy to see this petition, and have signed. Please do think about the issues, and if you agree, please sign and share
The youth unemployment situation is disasterous. With advances in technology, jobs of yore – bus conductors, railway firemen etc – are no longer with us. For the youth of today, who have no educational qualifications, the situation is dire. College funding cuts compound matters (courtesy of Westminster cuts). Most teens and twenties want to work. Living on benefits is no easy matter and not all have Bank of Mum and Dad to fall back on. The changes to the benefits system, whereby if you can breathe, you can work (ATOS) are less than helpfull also. Then we come to the illustrious bedroom tax. Teens and twenties are highly sociable, in the main, but should they really be required to live ten to a room to suffice the whims of the millionaires in residence at Westminster? All in all, I feel sorry for our youth. Damned and stigmatised – in my view unfairly -by many in society, they are between a rock and a hard place.
Naively, I thought the press were there to report in an unbiased way on issues. Giving both sides of any story is surely the best way to inform the public? In all honesty, the P&J/Evening Express have not a got a good track record on this. Taking just two issues, The Union Terrace Garden project and Trumps golf course are glaring examples of biased reporting. Well said Suzanne.
The concept of getting students/young people to work for free via ‘internships’ seems to me like pure exploitation as well. The American concept of ‘workfare’ which seems to be creeping in is even worse. Let’s hope some sensible solutions can be found – very quickly
To mention Samuel Pepys, Julie Burchill, and ‘even’ the Evening Express’s Cat Cubie in the same breathe as yourself is rather hilarious, Ms Kelly. Because ‘even’ Ms Cubie operates on a considerably higher journalistic plane than yourself. Unfortunately, what you describe as ‘simplifying and summarising’ often leads to amateurish exaggeration and distortion that might suit your own particular agenda but can be very misleading to the reader. I refer in particular to the rather nasty innuendo you insinuated against the Wood Family Trust in regard to its partnership with ACC in an educational project. How often are you going to use the part-time nature of your work with AV as an excuse for getting your facts wrong? Perhaps if you apologised when you did, and spent more time establishing the facts than simply churning out as many words as possible each week, then who knows where that might take you?
Well said. A friend has told me that even Aberdeen Journals have a strict policy that doesnt allow journalists to advertise company’s they have shares in.
I fear for the future of British satirical comedy. Where’s the 21st century Monty Python Bicycle Repair Man sketch going to come from if shops can’t find mechanics?
Aberdeen Voice has never been frightened to tackle/take on issues which the local press really should. While Suzanne may make the odd error, she expresses the opinions of many in the city and environs whose voices would otherwise go unheard
Yes, some of the issues may be contentious, but still warrant discussion and Aberdeen Voice serves that platform well, in my humble opinion.
Any legislation promoting equality and fairness is to be welcomed. Does it really matter – excepting to those of fervent religious beliefs – what sexuality a loving couple hold? Major churches ar in decline, which is why so many in Aberdeen are now night clubs or housing. Does the man in the street really care about his issue? Live and let live I say.
Oops, forgot to say. A wee bit of research would also have shown that the NMC is very keen to have the nurse who Susannah describes as a ‘murderer and apparent liar’ struck off the nursing register (and it seems likely that this will happen later this month) but the brother of the wife he was convicted of murdering is quoted as saying “This seems a waste of money and resources to continually have hearings and I am surprised to find out they are ongoing – it is incredible” – see http://local.stv.tv/aberdeen/news/210150-nmc-makes-fresh-bid-to-strike-off-convicted-killer-malcolm-webster/
Well written piece Suzanne. Apart from the A.V. the P&J/E.E are the only journals that provide local news.
Their biased reporting on both the Trump project and the City Gardens project was appalling. Many years ago they had a balanced policy on reporting which gained them respect but now all that has gone. I complained to the PCC about this but got nowhere, now I know why. I feel sorry for the 40+ printing employees who will be made redundant soon as they are moving their printing operations to Dundee. I stopped buying the P & J after the Trump project reporting and will do likewise to the E.E shortly. The A V and the neighbor’s bin will be my local news supply!
The PCC is a hopeless, pointless organisation regardless of who is on it – look at what self regulation did to the NOTW and every other paper involved in the phone hacking scandal. I actually cancelled my EE delivery after i got a letter saying it was going up to £13 a month. I get The Times ipad edition for £8.50 a month, and the difference is chalk and cheese.
According to this article, “Vicky Pryce … has admitted perverting the course of justice by taking the blame,” yet yesterdays Guardian reported, “Pryce, 60, an economist, DENIES perverting the course of justice by taking her husband’s penalty points after his speeding offence 10 years ago, on the ground of marital coercion” – http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/08/vicky-pryce-chris-huhne-coercion
The national press has been quite clear on this matter eg yesterdays Scotsman – “Ms Pryce DENIES perverting the course of justice and claims Huhne bullied her into taking his speeding points in 2003.”
Admit it, Old Susannahs statement that “Vicky Pryce … has ADMITTED perverting the course of justice …” just means shes got it wrong again!
The statement, written before the national press articles you refer to, implied that by accepting the points in place of Mr Huhne, that Vicky Pryce did indeed pervert the course of justice.
Looking at the statement in light of your comments, it is plain that this is not how most folks would read the statement, therefore, as I stated, you are technically, or otherwise, correct.
The post has been amended. Surely this is a clear admission/confirmation that Suzanne Kelly’s statement, although initially viewed as correct, is now considered to be WRONG.
So there is no dispute really, and we are grateful for your input which has resulted in the statement in question now being correct.
Hello Tam, thanks for your in-depth and continuing interest in this point of law. It would be interesting to know who you are, and why this precise issue is so important to you; if you are a legal professional, I’m happy to bow to your superior knowledge. But since you don’t seem to be satisfied, one valid interpretation of the plea she entered is this: she pleaded not guilty by marital coercion – ie admitting she did pervert the course of justice, and that the offense was indeed committed – but portraying herself as a person with no-free will bound by her controlling husband.
If I were writing a legal journal, this might be of some interest to the readers. But again, this is a satirical column and not a legal paper. All the best
Another hilarious reply – trying to cast sarcastic aspersions against those you perceive as opponents.
You claim to write a satirical journal, yet don’t recognise there is a line between satire and mudslinging, a line you cross frequently without too much regard for hard facts.
It would be interesting to know who Tam is, you say? Why would it be interesting?
Is it because you would like to try and dig up some dirt on his Facebook profile, Ms Kelly?
( *** Post moderated as lightly as possible in order that the whole is not overtly defamatory *** )
In early 2011 Ms Pryce told the political editor of the Sunday Times that 8 years earlier she had “consented” to take speeding points on her licence in order that her husband of the time could avoid a driving ban.
When this story was published both she and her ex husband (Chris Huhne) were charged with perverting the course of justice.
When Huhne appeared in court he pleaded guilty to the charges – in other words he admitted that he perverted the course of justice – and currently awaits sentencing.
However when Ms Pryce appeared in court she pleaded not guilty to the charge of perverting the course of justice – in other words she DENIED that she perverted the course of justice – and her case continues.
To sum up – Ms Pryce has admitted taking speeding points for her ex-husband, but denies the charge that she perverted the course of justice. (Had she admitted to perverting the course of justice the case would over and she would be awaiting sentencing.)
So while the amended statement in your article that she “has been charged with perverting the course of justice” is 100% correct, your original statement that “she has admitted perverting the course of justice by taking the blame” completely misrepresents the situation and is wrong.
Hope this helps. For me, alas, this is the end of this matter. Tally Ho!
I might add, Ms Kelly, that whether writing for a legal journal or a satirical column, one’s readers have a right to expect accuracy. Your attitude suggests otherwise.
I have supported Suzanne Kelly and her mammoth efforts since the start, although not physically able to take part in outside activities. I am so glad that you have taken up the cudgels to expose this thoughtless and expensive under-cover destruction of all the deer and other wildlife and surrounding natural environment and I support all your efforts to halt this on-going and needless destruction which still goes ahead elsewhere as well. It is diabolical that this carnage continues to be carried out despite every protest by the public leaving in its wake scenes of ravaged once beautiful natural habitat. We just have to continue to do all we can do to protect our beautiful and unique Scottish natural heritage. I’m glad to sign the petition.
Would you like to tell me on what grounds my last post was removed, please?
(*** Post included same defamatory statement as was previously moderated. Also contained inaccuracies and info which had been given privately. Furthermore, the team took the view that the post was personalised in terms not only of who you wished to comment on, but who you were addressing, and had no place in the comments section, particularly as you had been allowed to make your original point with very little moderation, and that you were no longer discussing the article the comments box was opened to accomodate. The decision was taken to treat the post in the same way as an article. See FAQs on our home page. ***)
Although I trained in journalism law, I’m afraid you have never made it clear what part of my post you consider defamatory. Please clarify. (***This will be obvious from the few changes which were made in the amended comment. This matter is now closed***)
Suppose its horses for courses really. The economics of feeding the masses started when the railways, shipping and refrigeration allowed a profit for the entrepreneurs of the 19th Century.
The Argentine meat trade fed the workers of the UK while the business folk made a few pounds. Andrew Carnegie made the steel while his companies shipped the goods. Ok, we have had some issues like Fray Bento’s pies and that Thatcher lady plus a war or two.
But hey …the upside may just be the payback from those brilliant folk who made things happen to provide libraries, roads, clean water, social services and housing.
There are always things we could do better and that is the nature of social change.
The supermarkets popularity will ebb and wane of course but that’s another story.
In days of yore, grandparents were valued. When they reached an age where they needed assistance, this was provided by their offspring. My late mother cared for my paternal grandmother for some fourteen years until her decline in health required hospitalisation. Nowadays, it seems many can’t wait to get granny, or grandad in to some kind of care, of which they will be required to play minimal part. Yes, the times they are a changing, and not always for the good it seems.
Hit a few nails on the head this week Suzanne. Never fear, the over paid beaurocrats in Brussels and Strasbourg will be busily creating more beaurocracy to resolve the issue, ably assisted by the multitude of equally over paid MEPs who will, no doubt, be able to justify even more dubious expenses (fly Ryanair, get paid BA – sign in and sod off etc). I’m sure they’ll get to the bottom of how cows can become horses as they progress through the food procesing chain.
Thank you for dedicating this to my late Uncle Bill. Regret I only learned of his death today through your article. He was a great campaigner and will be fondly remembered.
You won’t but I expect this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Trumps Vice President Sarah Malone is now married to Damien Bates the editor of the P&J
“Trees for Life” is an admirable conservation body and I wish them all the best, but please could they make it clear that they have nothing to do with Aberdeen City’s lamentable and disasterous “A Tree for Every Citizen” which not only resulted in the horrific and secretive slaughter of a sustainable group of deer at Tullos Hill but caused in its wake the wholesale destruction of a wonderful natural area of rare plants & wild flowers, small animals and birds in what is now an area of desolation. When this all came to light there were massive protests from Aberdeen Citizens who certainly didn’t want “A Tree for Life” in their names at such a cost to wild life (both financial and otherwise.) Many national conservations bodies also added their protests. “Trees for Life” should make it abundantly clear that they had nothing to do with this debacle.
There is no doubt of Prof Ritchies non independence. He appeared at the PLI in support and paid for by Trump. And MEMG was always advisory and toothless which is why SNH were directed to take part- they didn’t want to lend it credibility
Yes. toothless, like many other organisations supposed to act in the public interest. Not surprising, without teeth, there will be an awful lot of sucking going on.
“I am unable to confirm reports that burrowing animals were gassed in order to create the course and maintain its smooth contours, but this is the suspicion of some of my sources”
Wonderful journalism there. When were there “reports” of burrowing animals being gassed? I haven’t heard any “reports”. If you mean that anti-Trump folk think animals were gassed, that’s not the same as a “report”.
Wouldn’t it have been more accurate to say: “Opponents of Trump believe that burrowing animals were gassed in order to create the course, however any official with knowledge of the development has denied this is the case.” (I’m presuming you spoke to SEPA, the council etc, who would be able to tell you categorically whether burrowing animals were gassed or not)
The “this is the suspicion of some of my sources” line adds a level of mystery to the story that isn’t required. It’s clear that your sources are the oppenents, so why not just say that intead of wrapping in in this quasi-Deep Throat stylings.
The stuff that you got about the fairways being dyed is genuinely interesting and I didn’t know they were doing that, but you lose credibility when you include hyperbolic journo-speak to try to make the issue sound more mysterious or dastardly than it really is.
The truth is that there are people who gave me information and observations on this issue and are reasonably certain extermination took place, but who are wary of going on record officially; the Trump Organisation can seem, shall we say, just a touch litigious, and I don’t blame sources for not wanting to say anything that could get them into trouble. Sorry if it sounds cloak and dagger to you, but I hope you can understand the language needs to be protective. To me it’s just trying to let people know that animals are often killed when golf courses are set up – not everyone appreciates that – and that the belief is this happened here, too. The Trump Organisation is welcome to comment on this page and assure us that no animals were killed to make their course.
If the Council and MEMAG ever do bother to come back to me (I’ve waited over a month for MEMAG, and well over the five days in which Aberdeenshire Planning are supposed to get back to someone), maybe I can get more information on what happened to the animals that would have been living where we now have this course, and the dozens of other questions I’ve put to people.
I understand that Trump is litigious, but saying “I am unable to confirm reports that burrowing animals were gassed in order to create the course and maintain its smooth contours, but this is the suspicion of some of my sources” is still libellous if untrue.
If I said: “I am unable to confirm reports that Suzanne Kelly murders dogs for fun, but this is the suspicion of some of my sources” you could still sue me for libel. It’s your job as reporter to prove the facts of your story, not repeat allegations that may or may not be true.
Your sources may now be safe from Trump’s lawyers, but you have repeated the libel in print.
The list of things the Trump lot are doing that they shouldn’t be, or not doing as they should be, gets longer by the minute. One thing that has sneaked in under the radar is the planting of gorse (whin) plants at the southern end of the first golf course where, heaven forbid, ordinary folk might walk up from the beach and get close to one of the greens. Some might see it as trying to grow a windbreak from the fierce winds coming off the sea during storms, but that is not the reason. The gorse has been planted along pathways, long used by walkers, in a blatant attempt to keep people well away from the golf course.
There are paths all over the dunes, and there have been certainly for as long as anyone can remember. These narrow paths confine people to a small area of the dunes, but once paths have been made impassable more damage to the vegetation is inevitable. What these plantings of gorse will mean is that people will still walk the area, legally under Scotland’s right to roam legislation, but that they will risk trampling marram grass and other plants.
TIGLS could find that instead of keeping folk away from their precious golf course, they risk causing themselves untold problems once the gorse bushes grow, flower and seed. Gorse seeds are dispersed by the seed pods bursting open and ejecting the seeds – imagine what will happen when these seeds are blown inland by the prevailing wind. Before long the whole area will be covered in gorse. But that is not our problem.
What we should do is to continue walking these paths where we can and if we come across gorse, walk round it. And if we really feel strongly about it we can contact the Ramblers Association, The Scottish Rights of Way and Access Society, and the Access Officer of the Aberdeenshire Local Outdoor Access Forum and complain. Meanwhile, enjoy the dunes and your walk!
As this piece was written to offer others some humorous suggestions on how to have a bit of fun with rogue callers rather than to blaze any kind of campaigning trail, I’m glad to note that you found it funny.
Brilliant poem as always Bob, your fondness, warmth for the radio comes across. Like many other people I love the radio too, it held a special place for people in the war years and I think this is something I inherited from my grandmother. As I live on my own I like Radio 4 and the World Service, and at night when trying to sleep, I like to have the softness of Radio 3 by my bed. I just wish my DAB radio didn’t go through so many batteries.
I get badly pestered with nuisance phone calls, one time a sales person kept me on the phone for an hour trying to get me to part with £30 direct debit a month to join a club, where they will negotiate a discount for you when you buy an item. The man was hilariously stupid, it’s amazing the patter they come out with.
Sorry, I’m making a lot of comments in this Friday’s edition. Anyways, I knew a man who went on retreat to the seminary (as some lay members like to do) and he definitely came back with a few stories.
Regarding the water with rusty brown colour with an oily sheen, I can comment that this is not pollution but a natural phenomenon caused by the bacterium Leptothrix discophora acting on iron in the water. It is well known for forming oily-looking films and is a perfectly harmless.
Well if the seven councilors who rejected the original proposal were called ‘traitors’ on the fron t page by this disgusting sell-out rag what does this make them?
It is only fair the P&J is called what she really is and always has been, a vile money grabbing whore.
Why Aberdonians continue to support this grotesque foreign owned company I will never know. Time and time again it has been shown to be in the pocket of any lowlife willing to flash them a little cash.
Prostitute & Journal would be a much more accurate name. Shameful rag.
Hardly well written when it begins by talking about the “green shots of economic recovery”. I think the author means shoots, actually. Surprising such a glaring error hasn’t been picked up…
( *** In a perfect world full of perfect people, such glaring errors wouldn’t stand a chance! In such a world tho, I’m not sure there would be much to write about … Thanks for pointing it out, … well spooted 🙂 …text now amended – Moderator *** )
Many of our genesis’s were dyslexic i.e. Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci – so I expect they made some spelling mistakes too. I expect they also had ********* like “The Minger” in their time as well.
Thanks, he’s a local Inverurie Wullie who was seemingly stolen then returned after no ransom was paid. Am guessing his behaviour pissed off the kidnappers!
What a surprise?!! Trump’s golf course has holes! I wish a wealthy Scot could build a golf course next to one of Trump’s prized houses (and break down his fence, charge him for it, as well as cut off his water and electrics.)
Excellent work Suzanne. And its so true what you say about “rose tinted glasses”. The public still believe in Trump’s promises. But, its not all their fault really as the P&J and EE newspapers have a big part in this too. Along with the local councillors & government.
Great to know there are people with sufficient skills and resilience who will continue to strive to expose the tragicomedy of Menie. Well done and good luck!
Indeed it was the Evening Express – thanks Bob – will take opportunity to correct as soon as I can (Note – both are part of Aberdeen Journals Ltd, both had Mr Bates at the helm at one time or another) . Thanks to others who have pointed out that one or two links referenced have changed since the time of writing as well.
Is there an update on this story? I used to play the compton with the organ society every saturday and was really sad to hear the Capital is being renovated once again and not keeping this great organ on show. Unfortunately I don’t live in Aberdeen any more but wanted to know what will happen to the organ and bench
The beauty of the worldwide web is that it is open source and therefore it links the creative potential of all contributors were as those that attempt to regulate it rely on a smaller pool of minds so they will never assume ‘control’.
The web is a hotel of infinite rooms were the individual can source and pursue whatever takes their fancy some of which may be considered unsavoury and objectionable. This however is a dynamic and self regulating process and depending on your view of human nature the shit will always surface or the collective voice of humanity will triumph.
Some contributors are still at the infant stage playing with their poo whilst others have reached adolescence and are kicking against everything and many are now in productive adulthood educating and agitating in equal measure.
The adolescent me directs you to Tim Minchin’s ‘Pope Song’ as the best commentary on the Catholic Church.
I think the message is that you can certainly have folk like Tim Minchin or indeed Billy Connolly. They are public figures and have a following of sorts.
Both however seem to be treading a thin line at the moment as far as religious and ethnic tolerence are concered in my view.
I often think of the Balkans and Northern Ireland in this context since once the line is crossed there may be no easy way back.It would be a shame to lose net freedom because of the bigotry of a few.
“It was wearing a bright pink blouse (which was interesting, as the rest of us needed coats, hats and gloves). She must have been cold, but a little suffering is the price of beauty.”
Hmmm…
“From now on instead of investigating council waste, issues at the Menie Estate and abuses of office, I can start writing about who’s wearing what, what new beauty queens have been crowned, and how thin or fat they are.”
So how fat was she? I hope you’re backing this evidence up with a long-lense photo?
Press & Journal? is that a tongue in cheek question? please tell me it is but i imagine if they are saying anything it would be, “Its great being editor and being married to Donald Trumps Vice President of the TIGLS”
correction: Aberdeenshire Council informs me that Gordon Lyon is not retired after all. Apologies for any confusion. I shall write to him, asking for clarification of an email he sent me in May of last year, in which he indicates the bunds I described near the Munro home are temporary. More later.
Is that a picture of “it” wearing a bright pink blouse on the Time To Help article? Gads. And that’s a helluva way for one woman to refer to another. “It.” Pretty crap, really.
Just received: An Aberdeenshire Council spokesman said: “The retrospective application relates to works that have already been undertaken on site.
“As part of the assessment of the application, the planning service identified that a small section of land where works were undertaken was not included in the document. The applicant was approached for the additional information and this has been available for viewing in the planning office since it was submitted in September 2012.
“The information was not considered to have altered the application significantly given the works had already taken place, and as such re-notification was considered to be unnecessary.
“We accept that the additional information could have been made available digitally at an earlier stage in the process. However, as consultation was ongoing at the time and further amendments were possible, the submission to the website was delayed.
“The application is to be considered by the Formartine Area Committee at its meeting on Tuesday (Tue, Mar 26).”
“We at Aberdeenshire Council couldn’t give a flying caber about protecting either our natural heritage or the interests of our local communities. If that nice Dr Trump has already built those bunds, then that’s just fine by us! The rubber stamp for next Tuesday’s meeting of the Formartine Area Committee has already been inked and, as usual, we shall be dismissing all objections without any consideration.”
Hello Andrew, Pa Broon is now no longer pal to The Donald, and I’m sure he’ll be happy to hear from constituents who’ve had their fill of the World’s Greatest Golfcourse. Can’t hurt to write
The Caledonian Forrest was largely destroyed by human deforestation. I love forrests but I also love deer, and I believe Trees for Life and The Woodland Trust advocate the (unnecessary) killing of deer.
So, have we now totally abandoned the pretence that Ms Kelly’s a journalist, and we are accepting instead a thousand word ramble on whatever bugs her over the course of a fortnight or so?! And, it’s hardly insightful or cutting-edge to refer to other human beings as “it” or critcise what they wear, or their physical appearance. And referring to the woman in question as “Mrs Maloney-Baloney”? I’d pull my 8 year old daughter up for being lazy and derivative in her use of insults for that kind of thing. Still, at least you managed to get in the, by now, obligatory plug for Brewdog. Aye, Suse, you’ve still got it. Well done on another piece of witty, incisive writing.
Angela Joss your comment reminded me of the behavour of George Sorial and the rest of the Trump Organisation who make very nasty personal attacks against innocent people, that are many, many times worse than anything that could be read/or allowed in Aberdeen Voice. You have also defeated your own comment by making a personal attack against against Suzane Kelly, yet this is the thing you are complaing about!
But what I find the most concerning is the fact that you claim to be a mother to an eight year old daughter.
Sean, the lassie’s comments are very well-founded. If you think it is acceptable for one woman to describe another as “it” in this day and age, with women’s rights under siege in just about every corner of the planet, then you need to give yourself a good bloody shake. And as for the snide remark about the daughter, well…
PS what is it using with the phrase “past week’s event’s” in the opening sentence? A primary 7 schoolkid could tell you not to use apostrophes in plurals. Don’t you have any editors or sub-editors ?
Minger, it’s a pity your not genuinely interested in the welfare of others, otherwise you would have defended Suzanne Kelly and those viciously attacked by the Trump Organisation. Instead you choose to be selective in your bias. And for your information, I know a lot about women’s rights, I was the local secretary of a Scottish campaign against domestic violence towards women and children.
Despite your thought of my comment as “snide”, this could have been said of Angela Joss’s comment about Suzanne Kelly, but again you did not reply to that.
(*** Post moderated and overly personal content removed ***)
Hello Stray Ray, I’ve a few free minutes after work tonight, and have a chance to offer an observation or two. Obviously the most important thing at stake here is The Minger’s superior use of language and his knowledge of grammar – my content is irrelevant. If however, Minger gets his word order wrong when firing valuable comments in after 11pm, we should forgive him – his errors are to be overlooked; mine aren’t. Must have been a hard day at his or her office.
It’s completely true – my attempts at political satire sometimes involve me not being very nice to people – even other women! – including people who for instance who harm the environment, who get ahead in business by cashing in on their looks to take figurehead jobs (which certainly leaves me out), who cheat the taxpayer, and who try to steal common good land. it’s good to know the targets of my writing have found friends in Minger and Ms Joss.
I’ve never claimed to be a saint, but the way some people carry on, you’d think I was, say, an unfit mother or perhaps a criminal. I’m keeping my £95 worth of BrewDog shares thanks very much, and I’m going to keep writing, thanks. I accept completely that I am the only writer/reporter in history to own shares or to write about enjoying what I enjoy. I also give over £100 each month to a selection of charities, some of which I also talk about. Perhaps I’ll go get some sack cloth and ash – but I think the sub editor is using them at the moment, after the apostrophe debacle. My shortcomings are many, but they don’t make me incapable of looking at the great and good of this town and the wider world, and pointing up what I think smells rotten. I’m sure someone out there is writing politically correct, inoffensive political satire; do send me a sample or two.
You could forgive me for starting to wonder why these two people, so unhappy with my musings, continue to subject themselves to reading it, attempting to score points over me and the sub-editors about apostrophes and their superior morality. It is starting to look just a tad petty, tired and obsessive though. Perhaps I’ll have to take some time from looking at the Trumps and Milnes to have a peek at this pair to see what their motive might be and what gives them the moral high ground; I feel an investigation looms. Ms Joss has a culture show on SHMU FM; I will have to check it out one of these days (any reviews from those who’ve heard it welcome).
Minger is apoplectic at my referring to a woman as ‘it’ (In this column I had just referred to Aberdeen’s sweetheart as ‘the lessser spotted Sarah Malone-Bates’ referring to her post-nuptual disappearance from the papers, and her objectifying herself by going for the beauty title ‘Face of Aberdeen’). Minger’s own chivalrous treatment of women is of course beyond reproach. But again, this is satire of those who would oppress others for personal gain; in this instance of a woman who displayed her own feminist credentials by entering a beauty contest, and taking a job where she had no relevant experience. Again, if it is too upsetting for our Minger friend to read this little column to the point he can’t string a sentence together (witness his post elsewhere on this page), perhaps he needs to take up yoga, calm down, and read something less contentious. He’s not going to change Old Suz. Perhaps he might think about changing his own ways?
Yes, political satire can be mean – to men and women. As for the feminist credentials of ‘Minger’ I offer a definition, which might shed light on his right on criticism of me from http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=minger : ”
“minger – A derogatory term specifically for an English person. Comes from the Glasgow rhyming slang. The word England is often pronounced as “Inger-land” by English football fans, thus inger minger.
“It comes from the Scots word “ming”, which refers to several things, such as something smelly, poor quality, unattractive, and also to human excrement, the latter definition documented by Watson in the early 1900s around Roxburgh.”
Time to resume normal services. Minger, Angela – thank you for your valuable, witty, upbeat contributions, and please do carry on. But I do hate to see you both so upset. Calm down dears, it’s only a satirical column in a free online newspaper.
(Thanks everyone who’s sent me private messages of support expressing bafflement as to what this whole thing’s about – I agree, it is a wonder). Sorry – there is no time to proof, sub or check the grammar on this comment – I’m heading out the door on some matters which, believe it or not, are even more important than Minger’s and Joss’ comments. Tally Ho!
I am new to this whole issue, but from what i have read and seen the behaviour and actions of all involved bar the residents seems to have been utterly contemptible, and on the part of trump- simply downright nasty and vindictive- he has basically walled in a woman in a house she refuses to leave…in what world is this even vaguely acceptable? let alone backed by a government??? scotland? IMO i hope you get your independance and we set up a proper border where we can keep out the parasitic lunatic american megalomaniacs you seem to want in your country???
The fact your government even entertained giving him a visitors visa let alone cronying up to it like that speaks volumes IMO…
I am so happy with both decisions today, I wish all the residents continued success with their fight against Trump. I will support them in every way I can every step of the way! <3
Another piece of amazing backward thinking by the Aberdeenshire council. Here we have a Billionaire willing to invest in our local area to the tune of god knows how many millions and we are again treated with disdain by the elected council officials. The pointless wind farm project will provide next to no local jobs, the turbines will be built over seas if we (Scotland) are lucky the towers may be built in Nigg (Around 150 miles north of ABZ) however no local industry will benefit. Once up and running there is minimal maintenance on them so again will not provide many if any local jobs. The building of a second course a hotel and houses on the Menie estate will employ local trades man and women directly for many years to come during the building process. The hotel will provide jobs for many more locals once open for bookings. The course and hotel will pump much needed funds in to the local economy on a daily basis and far more during the summer months. There would also be a very real chance of European golf tournaments being held in Aberdeen and perhaps even the best of the lot The Open. The wind farm could be easily moved 15-20 miles up the coast and be tied in to an existing power station at Peterhead……. Trump may not cast himself in the best light every time he open his mouth however it’s him opening his wallet this city and shire needs. His building of Bunds around the houses is out of order and should be taken down however shooting ourselves in the foot by passing a plan for windmills is beyond comprehension.
Major international investors (many of whom I’m sure he calls friends) will look at Scotland and Aberdeen in particular and think why bother. What’s the point of trying to set up anything there when this is how they think, lets go to Ireland or France or Spain or wherever just don’t bother with Scotland!! Well done Aberdeenshire council you’ve covered your faces in egg once again…..
We need major investment (not at any cost) in this region and by doing this we have shown we are not worth the hassle of investing in.
Move the wind farm up the coast and benefit from both projects, win win situation!!
Do you work for the P&J? You might well do because your argument is as unsophisticated as one of theirs.
So you support illegal land developments? As long as the developer is rich, that’s OK then?
On the turbines, do you really think that wind power is going nowhere? Its all a big scam? Believe you me, the days of simple fossil fuel are coming to an end and we are going to need a mix of fossil fuel, renewables, energy conservation, and if we can sort the waste disposal, nuclear. The technologies still need to be sorted and if Aberdeen cannot get in on the act by using its offshore wind to research one of the more promising technologies, the NE will never become a player.
Get over yourself, you are going to see a lot more wind power.
No I never said i support any illegal developments and to my knowledge there aren’t any going on here…….
Tell me what the benefit of building the wind farm in Aberdeen Bay as opposed to Cruden bay? My argument isn’t against wind power and development of wind power if you had taken off your blinkers you’d have seen that. The argument is why there and in doing so stop further investment in Aberdeen/shire. The subsidies that has been pumped into wind in the past is coming to an end so is an expensive for of energy and do a trial in Aberdeen Bay is a very expensive gamble seeing as there is hundreds of millions worth of investment sitting there waiting.
There is a power station at Peterhead that could be utilised without having to build another sud station on the coast in the area and in moving them up the coast we get the best of both worlds…. Your and the others who spout their Anti Trump hatred can’t see the wood for the trees. You only want to see him fail and in doing so you would see millions lost to the local economy ever year. It’s a high price to pay to feel smug!
My feelings on Donal Trump is he makes himself look like an idiot each and every time he opens his mouth about the issue and Scotland however yes I’ll take a rich man’s investment in our area even if he is an Idiot cause I can’t see a line of them forming….. Just another feather in the shoot ourselves in the foot cap by the Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire councils and the UTG debacle. No doubt you were opposed to that also…..??
‘we are being treated with disdain by the council’. Certainly are. How they could even think of rubberstamping a contentious illegal development with retrospective planning permission without informing the opponents is total disdain for every one of us. That illegal development is designed solely to punish Trump’s opponents.
‘Billionaire willing to invest in our local area to the tune of god knows how many millions’. Is he a billionaire? His net worth could be as low as 150-250 million dollars. How many millions is he investing in our local area? Do you know? Apart from God the council, or the Scottish Government should. Whatever it is won’t be what Trump is claiming. He just opens his mouth and his latest factless fantasy spews out.
To make this development pay, and to bring ecomonic benefit to Aberdeenshire, it has to attract seriously wealthy golfers in huge numbers. And when those people come to Scotland they want heritage and tradition, not the kind of resort they can find anywhere else outside Scotland.
I urge caution not to self censor as the ruling elites, who have created this veneer of democracy, rely on our fear and hesitancy to protest and offend. Whilst we self censor they grow and prosper.
Look for the ‘truth about the catholic church’ on you tube if you like the spirit of Tim Minchin’s riposte to the pope.
A complete stretch of coastline ruined by uneconomic monstrosities and you support it, presumably because it upsets Mr Trump, how hypocritical.
God knows how many birds from the nearby nature reserve will be killed by these things not to mention the damage it will do to sealife, reports that the noise they create can lead to whales beaching themselves doesn’t appear to have reached you. That’s before you even get to the hazard it will create in a busy shipping area.
An utter eyesore on one of the best stretches of beach in our Country, how anyone can support putting them there is beyond me, you only need to drive towards Huntly to see how these things have ruined some great Countryside.
If Mr Trump was behind the building of them I know 100% your stance would be different, you’re so blinded by hatred of him that you’re willing to stand aside and let one of the greatest vandalism’s of our area occur under your nose, some environmental campaigner, well done.
George Smith, I would be very interested to know how many letters of complaint you sent to Menie House regarding the shooting of birds, the destruction of numerous populations of wildlife – in particular the hundreds or thousands of resident rabbits that are said to have been killed, the indigenous trees in the hundreds that were uprooted and buried, the stabilisation of a unique dynamic dune system and the elimination of the Site of Special Scientific Interest that contained rare and valuable flora, etc, etc. Which occurred during the building of Donald Trump’s golf course.
This wind farm atrocity has nothing to do with Mr Trump yet the environmentalists are willing to turn a blind eye because he is against it, I simply can’t fathom the thinking behind that. These eyesores are going to destroy the beauty of our coastline and cause untold amounts of damage to the environment, surely that’s bigger than any hatred you may feel for him as a man.
To reiterate; these are two completely separate issues, you don’t have to support one because of your opposition for another.
George Smith, I have not made your point in anyway. Futhermore, Suzanne Kelly or anyone who cares about the environment at Menie has not supported the EOWDC – “to support one because of your opposition for another”, as you state.
I suggest you read my reply again and if you don’t understand it get someone to help you. May I also suggest you get yourself a dictionary and look up the word, “hypocritical”.
With our local press bought and paid for, we depend all the more on Suzanne’s column in AV to highlight just what is going on in our town. More power to her elbow!
This is outrageous. What happened at the planning meeting? How dare the council not inform interested parties that Trump had applied for retrospective planning permission for these monstrosities. And how DARE they say-
‘“The information was not considered to have altered the application significantly given the works had already taken place, and as such re-notification was considered to be unnecessary.”
‘given the works had already taken place’ without planning persmission and with opposition which the comittee is legally obliged to consider?
What is the point of a planning committee if Trump can build what he wants in the face of legitimate and reasonable opposition. It must be acting illegally, and there’s a good case to answer that it’s depriving the interested parties of their human rights.
The joke is Trump has already decided to pull out because he can’t get the bookings and is using the offshore windpower as an excuse, but is still taking time to punish the residents just because he can. And doing the same to Salmond who at least deserves it. He will turn on the council too and let everyone know exactly what went on. Everyone is going to lose on this one, except one person. Guess who. All this makes me feel sick so I can’t begin to think what the people in Menie are going through.
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Aberdeenshire and the government “shot themselves in the foot” a while ago, when they granted planning permission, on a SSSI, to Donald Trump. He is seen as a joke in his own country, full of bluster and exaggeration and with a history of uncompleted projects and profitable (to him) bankruptcies, evident from the most cursory research into his business record. The real embarrassment is that so many people were gullible enough to believe his wild claims for jobs and profits, blinded, no doubt, by his apparent and ostentatious wealth. Any decision about a test centre for wind energy is a government decision and cannot and should not be influenced by the uninformed and self-serving pronouncements of someone who is not the success he pretends to be. In this context, he is, indeed, the evidence!
The Shire council made an error when they wrote to me about an aspect of this decision: as soon as they come back to me, I will have an article correcting their error. More on this as soon as possible
Please be advised that Gordon Lyon has not retired and is still on Aberdeenshire Council. We have asked him to clarify a statement made on the Shire’s behalf which read: “”This development is
well-scrutinised and the approved plans are being adhered to.
“Site inspections are undertaken on a weekly basis by various organisations
to ensure that the development is being carried out according to the
planning permission granted.”
As witnessed by the retrospective planning permission for the parking and the bunds blocking the Munro property from light and views, clearly something has gone amiss with this inspection process.
I am happy to clear up the matter of Mr Lyon’s retirement. I will be happier still to clear up this contradiction between the Shire’s statement and the reality on the ground at Menie- Suzanne Kelly
If Trumpie’s “broon noses” in the Aberdeenshire Council have their way I would suspect the “temporary” bunds shall become “permanent”Most of them are, in my opinion,
running scared of Mr Trump and have, with the exception of a few brave souls, been this way ever since he arrived on the scene,and threatened to move to the Emerald Isle if he didn’t get his way.
I have another concern about the grant of retrospective planning. It is quite clear that the 5 public access footpaths specified in the approved plans have not been built, despite the first course being complete. Would the retrospective planning not only rubber stamp the illegal bunds, and other off-plan developments, but remove the necessity for the public paths?
“Let’s hope the local authorities and parliamentary bodies see sense on this issue” Now THAT would be an event!! Local councils seeing sense.??As the American politician and Governor of California is quoted as saying, “Multinationals do control.They control the politicians. They control the media. They control the pattern of consumption, entertainment, thinking. They’re destroying the planet and laying the foundation for violent outbursts and racial division”
They do indeed control as you so rightly say but I always feel that if we refuse to empower folk, be they polititions or multi nationals then they have no actual power.
Good work Duncan. The Falls of Clyde is a stunning area which I visited only for the first time last August when we were at a wedding at New Lanark.
I’ve kept up to date with the debate and it’s reaching a critical stage.
There will be little point in voting for independence next year if we are still to be in thrall to multi-national capitalists whose only motive is profit.
Thank goodness you’re doing such thorough and meticulous research Suzanne. Absolutely essential for anyone trying to follow and understand the people and processes that govern all our lives.
Deborah Bonham is playing Kinross on 3 May – more info on this, her new album (top of the ReverbNation charts) and some further photos and thoughts at http://oldsusannahsjournal.yolasite.com/
Of course, “we in Scotland,” (where have I heard that phrase before?) will miss the illustrious, first, female PM. She did such a lot for us after all. She sold off as many council houses as possible, promising to build replacements but failing to do so and insisting that proceeds from such sales must be locked away for decades instead of being used to tackle the ever increasing waiting lists. She destroyed our heavy industry and mining, instead of investing in modernisation to make them more viable. Sold off our utilities to the highest bidder under the illusion that this would reduce prices to the consumer and not simply add to the dividends of the shareholders. Our railways and buses were dealt with likewise to save the public purse having to subsidise them. Perversely, many multiple of the previous subsidies are now paid to these “privatised” companies. Yes, our Maggie saved the nation a fortune. Then there was “The Big Bang.” Little did she realise that she was sowing the seeds of the present crises we find ourselves in now. The investment bankers (and associated crooks) continue to award themselves gynormous bonuses, which seems to have been the main aim of the changes. Yes, our Maggie took a delight in making changes that lined the pockets of the few, to the detriment of the many. But of course, she could never have been described as devisive, could she? In saying that, over a decade or more of Labour rule, the gap between the rich and the poor widened even more. So RIP Margaret. We will miss you sorely. Wonder when Tony’s due for permanent “retirement.”?
Perhaps it was the wrong sort of trees, planted in the wrong sort of soil, that’s the problem? Who knows. In a couple of hundred years time the areas concerned might regenerate themselves to their previous verdant state? No doubt, in the intervening period, ACC, and it’s well-meaning officials, will have come up with many new scams/schemes to waste the tax payers money.
And Aberdeen is one of two local authorities to lower a flag as a tribute to Thatcher and her legacy. The workers’ vanguard in charge of Aberdeen were only concerned about how low to drop it. t’s a while since the Labour Party sold out its principles but up it pops to remind us all from time to time.
Hello John, nice to hear from you. I left the boxes on the site – and tried to put as many bits of the plastic blowing around inside of one of them. Could hypocrite possibly be just a little misdirected? I’ve cleaned litter from the hill just after this scheme ripped up the gorse and exposed many dangerous items – I distinctly recall one huge bit of wire that would have broken a deer’s leg if it had been frightened and ran over it. Got witnesses; even have a few photos. Cleaning that hill of litter is impossible – but to declare you can expose it, strip away the gorse and the wildlife, plant your trees and leave your tree-related litter behind is beyond the pale. For that matter, I’ve never left any kind of litter there or anywhere. My friends and I often do impromptu cleans of the Torry coast as well. I do hope this goes some way to helping you, and have a good day.
PS John – I also wanted the officials to find the boxes and clean up after themselves. Then again, there was the small matter that I had visited straight from work, was carrying a few bags of my own stuff, and only have two hands. Shall I see you up there doing some cleaning when I next return?
You really generated a handful of remarkable points throughout ur blog
post, “The Don Crossing – Views From The ‘Brig’ – Aberdeen Voice”.
I am going to remain coming back to ur page eventually.
Thanks a lot ,Verlene
Och, I mind as a kid in Fife before Maggie. My dad is no slouch, but he was on and off the dole before Maggie, and has never been unemployed since Maggie. I think she did more good than bad. Maybe not much more good tho`. The worst thing I think she did was sell off the utility companies? They announce monsterous profits that I cant help but think would be helping out the Goverment just now. I think its lunacy to expect any economy to keep on growing, surely its a finite thing? Just ppl with lots of money have nowhere safe to put it just now. I think its business as usual for the bulk of the population. I hate the way the taxman is taxing as much as he can just now to cover bankers bonuses.
Consider when you buy a tv from Currys?
1 you paid around/at least 20% Tax on money you are about to spend (PAYE)
2 you get taxed another 20% for VAT
3 You cover currys extortionate rates/Tax to local goverment (now you know why a cup of coffee can cost up to £5)
4 You cover import duty/Tax as nobody makes TV`s in this country
5 You probably drove to pick up the tv and even may have paid a £5 parking fee/Tax
6 Any profits Currys made from the purchase will be taxed 20%
Anyone add to this list? 🙂
oh, and how come in poorer times, we were able to build and maintain things without lottery funding? What are they doing with all the money they take in not just in the above scenario but also proceeds from parking tickets/speeding tickets/fines etc. Have you ever bought anything from America on Ebay? you get a shock when you go to the post office to collect, and you wont be the only one in the que getting fleeced for up to a couple of hundred quid. Either Local and central goverment are very corrupt or they are in a really, really bad way.
Also, If I am made unemployed tomorrow, after 3 mnths I can expect £50/week, how come the gov have just decided to cap benefits to £500/week – thats laughable
Anyhows, Back to Maggie, What was the timeline between selling everything off and the Falklands war. Could one have been used to pay for the other? All fair in love and war?
Justin I think you are very, very brave. Words fail me in trying to describe how I feel about the way the Conservative and LibDem government have treated people.
Good article Duncan, what I also find quite interesting is the fact that Donald Trump forgets to tell people that he was a friend to Colonel Gaddafi, who was invited to stay on land belonging to Mr Trump during the United Nations General Assembly 2009.
Sheep are for eating, the lamb wouldn’t exist were it not for the farmer breeding them for the plate. Luckily for this sheep he’s a breeding ram so he’ll live a happy life doing what he does best, that isn’t sitting beside a donkey whilst children stroke him.
Well done to the sanctuary for rescuing ill treated animals but it can’t just keep well treated animals because someone found it.
Mr Smith might have a point if the animal had been well treated, animal sanctuaries get loads of traffic from animals their owners would describe describe as well treated, until found near death by a member of the public.
I heartily agree Bob, especially aboot fowk buttin in afore you’ve finished spikkin.
Dinna dachle at a roundabout or traffic lichts in fron o me when iIm pedalling though. My dad wis a lorry driver in the 60s and I learned some affa fool stuff when I wis only wee and can still recall it!
I’m sure it’s fit Otis Redding meant when he wrote Respect. I mean the manners, nae the fool orra Banffshire profanity.
So many false points in this report it’s unbelievable. According to the STV news a spokesperson for Willows said the lamb has only been there a week, the farmer has offered DNA proof of ownership, he also offered money. On radio Scotland Aberdeen news at lunchtime today he also offered a replacement lamb. He also stated that Willow put the matter in the hands of their solicitor rather than talk with him.
I’ve always enjoyed Aberdeen Voice’s investigative and accurate journalism, you’ve covered some very interesting topics and almost always done it in a fair and level headed way but I’m saddened to read this report above.
It’s so full of inaccuracies and sensationalism you’d think it was written by someone from Aberdeen Journals!
I understand that some of you don’t agree with modern farming methods and may find it hard to believe that farmers and meat eaters can be caring and compassionate about animals but since you are the voice of Aberdeen I think your reporting should be a bit more accurate. A few of the points I disagree with in the above report are:
1. The farmer never threatened or intimidated the charity at all, he asked for his lamb to be returned and even offered a donation and another lamb in it’s place. According to Willow’s facebook page yesterday (It’s been deleted today) they were happy for the matter to be handled by solicitors and they actively encouraged their supporters to harass the farmer, they also deleted the farmer’s posts on their page where he offered a replacement and politely defended his actions.
2. Fred – Sheep don’t get stuffed with growth hormones in the UK, or fat.
This is from the governments sheep and goat health regulations.
“Due to concerns about the potential risk to humans, the use of hormonal growth promoters for livestock is banned in the UK. Antibiotic growth-promoting feed additives have also been phased out – because of concerns about the potential spread of antibiotic resistance.”
Come on Aberdeen Voice please don’t loose your journalistic integrity by knowingly publishing inaccurate material, it’s insulting to your readers.
Hi Martyn, you bring up a valid and interesting point re. the quote attributed to myself in the above article, which I feel deserves to be addressed.
First of All, I should point out that I know you personally, and therefore do not doubt your background/involvement in farming. I also bow to your superior knowledge re. sheep rearing and the relevant laws. Secondly thanks for the kind words about AV which frame your complaint about the above article.. much appreciated.
I should point out that the quote, as used, is accurate, and as correctly stated, WAS my reaction to the issue, presented to the letter. I should also point out that what I offered at the time was a general expression of a scenario involving ANY animal rescue centre, ANY farmer, and/or ANY rescued animal ANYWHERE on the planet.
This in mind, Whilst there are no grounds to retract/remove the quote, nor object to it’s inclusion, I can recognise that in the context of the article, it could be implied that I am referring to specifics. However, it is fact that the idea I describe hypothetically, I find disgusting, and I stand by the expression.
I am glad, and even grateful to be a little wiser re. sheep rearing, and delighted to know that sheep in the UK are not subjected to growth hormones.
This being the case, what may be implied from the quote attributed to me would appear to be erroneous…. and if I was presented as a professor of Agriculture, or a qualified Veterinarian or similar, I would be embarrassed and want it removed. However, as I am none of those and not placated to be, then I will lose no sleep over it, and if ridiculed on account of it, I’ll just have to take it on the chin.
At Aberdeen Voice, we strive not to interfere with writer’s material, editing as lightly as possible, and only with good cause. In this instance, I see a case, but not cause.
I will of course alert the writer to this contribution for her consideration.
Nae worries Fred, cheers!
I appreciate the fact that your readers get a decent right to reply.
I wouldn’t like to see the article changed at all I just thought I’d point out that the use of growth hormones thankfully is not allowed in the UK, just in case anyone reading thought that it was common practice.
Keep up the good work, you guys have covered a lot of important issues over the years and 99.9% I totally agree with.
A very brave man indeed, let down by the system. The Benefits System was set in place to assist those, such as Justin. Most people want to work but, in cases like this, are clearly unable to do so. Little ATOS gems, such as, “can you lift an empty box?” hardly prove anything, of any value. All that is happening is that government is paying companies, such as ATOS,, phenomenal amounts of money to perform meaningless assessments, when JobCentrePlus staff, who are well aware of the dodgers in the system, are being deprived of funds to bring them to book. The high levels of appeals in regard to ATOS decisions, and the significant numbers winning those appeals, says it all.
It’s obvious that the sanctuary is run by people from an urban area. Here in the north east, any country person finding a lamb would first go round the local farms so that it could be reunited with its mother, for a start, and to return it to the farmer who owned it. We have far too many of these ignorant people living in country areas.
Dear Ewan, You seem to have missed most of the facts of the situation. The teenager who found it was far away from any sign of any other sheep or farm. She saved its life, and then brought it to a sanctuary. The sanctuary has been run for more than a decade by people who deal with wild, domestic and farm animals that have been abandonded, abused, or simply can’t be cared for by their owners. It is a bit odd that a ‘valuable’ lamb was allowed to get washed away down a river? Does that really sound like adequate animal husbandry to you? It sounds like you have a city folk/country folk chip on your shoulder more than anything else.
Well, Old Susannah……If I owned a farm, I would split it into 3-5 acre pieces and sell them so that people from the cities could build their dream house, with the long tree-lined drive, the fancy 5 bar gate with the goose head at one end, and give it a fancy name such as Cherry Tree Farm, and next to it, a sign saying PRIVATE.
They would have plenty room to build the stable block, exercise their many dogs, and keep their pot-bellied pigs, donkeys and a goat or two.
I would then stop having to work 365 days a year, up to 18 hours out of the 24 during the weeks of lambing, and I would retire somewhere nice and warm.
The meat that people buy in the supermarkets could then be brought in by plane from South America. After all, there’s millions and millions of acres of forest that could be cleared to provide all of the UK’s needs.
Everybody would then be happy. The farmers would be able to live a normal life like other people, and the new occupants of the plots could all get together and raise funds for the animal sanctuaries and feel good about themselves. They also would not have to look at farm animals in the fields knowing that one day, bits of them would be on their dinner plates, and other bits would be around their feet.
Well, this one is clearly dividing opinion. There have been developments – the farmer involved has posted on his Facebook page a comment referring to Willows as a ‘funny farm’ – it helps people with mental, physical and emotional problems from children to adults. Mocking those less fortunate than himself is not going down very well with anyone, whatever side people are on of the ownership issue – this was just nasty and unnecessary.
These people have bonded with this lamb – which might sound unimportant to some of you – but it will be extremely traumatising for them to let this animal go – putting a different animal in is not the answer. There is as yet no proof of ownership, and certainly no proof of this being a valuable tup. If it were worth a great deal of money, many farmers would have kept a better eye on it. This also begs the question – was it looked after properly – it was found in distress, nearly dead. There are some people who think the law is absolute and the farmer still owns the sheep. This is not exactly ironclad. If someone loses an animal, domestic or farm, and ceases to look for them, the person who finds the animal might be entitled to lay claim to the animal – this is a matter for the courts. The farmer posted that he stopped looking and thought it was dead. It is far from clear that he called all the area animal rescue centres.
Sometimes a look at a person’s character can give insight into how they operate. I would personally be a bit slow to take his word. This is a man who sued his injured, 77 year-old father for the farm and won; the court case papers make very interesting reading indeed. It would be nice if this wealthy landowning farmer could simply be happy this animal is alive and has been de facto adopted by vulnerable people who care for it. If he takes the charity to court, removes this animal and causes distress to the people on the animal assisted therapy, then I for one am going to let the meat dealers and retailers his insult to the people who rely on Willows and how he took them to court.
I am not unable to see his piont of view either. He believes this animal is his property; he says it is valuable. But it was the farmer who as I understand it started in with the threats of police, legal action and so on. I know Willows; I know they are in a difficult position over this, and we shall see what happens whether it is decided in or out of court. I know what I’ve found out about our farmer. I’ve made my decision who I believe; we’ll see what happens in due course.
Old Susannah, Thanks for the reply however I think there are still a few issues that you are wrong about.
I understand that you are a good friend and supporter of Willows and those who work there but I think this makes your reporting very biased an one sided in this case, I would do the same if my friends needed help too.
I don’t personally know anyone who works at Willows, I think they do a great job both for the animals they rescue and the people who receive therapy.
I don’t know the Farmer in question either but I have a interest in farming, I’ve lived on a farm for many years and my wife is a farmer.
I agree that the farmer’s use of the term “Funny Farm” was definitely unnecessary and derogatory however I would say that he and his Wife got a huge amount of unnecessary and derogatory abuse from the supporters of Willows on facebook, including a very disturbing description of what one supporter would do if he met them, taking time to describe separately what he would do to each of them. This “mob bullying” behaviour was encouraged by Willows and I would also say by you too on the Aberdeen Voice facebook page “Please post messages of support on the Willows page if you can; and if you do see the farmer’s post, please feel free to give him a piece of your mind.”
In a heated debate like this one I believe your action to be very irresponsible.
I also think that accusations of animal neglect towards the farmer are wrong, Blackfaced sheep are a very hardy outdoor breed that thrive in difficult areas and do not do well indoors, they are impossible to watch 24/7. Lambing season is also a very busy time for a farmer. This should all be taken into account. It is quite understandable that the lamb was in distress and nearly dead, it was found in a river. I don’t think anyone who knows and understands sheep farming would blame the farmer for this.
I also think that Willows have been very irresponsible in using the rescued lamb as part of their Therapy program knowing that it could be claimed at any time, allowing vulnerable people to become attached to the lamb then using this as the reason they should keep it. That is either poor management practices or a shocking manipulation of the very people they are supposed to be helping. I do hope it’s not the latter.
I wonder if this place is run by the same people who had the Donkey Sanctuary I visited in Devon. A sumptuous place with many broad acres. I understand that it started in a scruffy little smallholding. A sad looking donkey in an advert soon brought the dosh rolling in. I was there 35 years ago, and it had already been sold for over £1,000,000.
After all, it is a licence to print money, isn’t it? All those little old ladies leaving them a fat legacy.
All this anger-producing publicity is going to do them nothing but good, of course. They’ll milk it (no pun intended!) for all its worth.
I hope the fifteen year old girl who bravely rescued this lamb is OK, she deserves a great amount of thanks for saving River. When I was fifteen (because it concerns an animal), I would have probably been quite bewildered and upset at all the arguments.
This lamb is not a pet, it’s a working animal, I’ve spent a lot of my life on farms, sheep thrive in the company of other sheep, it just isn’t natural for a tup to be kept away from other sheep, it will get depressed and go mad in the confines of this “sanctuary”.
Thank god I’m not the only one who see’s the insanity of a rescue centre claiming ownership of everything that passes through its door, the very nature of these places should be to look after the animal till the owner can be reunited with the animal or to take care of it if no one wants it.
To keep this fluffy little animal because it’s cute and people at the centre have grown attached to it is laughable.
btw Well done on stopping the UTG project, I took my daughter down there on the the Sunday of the International market to eat some food we’d bought, Union Terrace was mobbed, we got harassed for money by two junkies when we passed an archway, not one other person was in the garden, my daughter got a real scare. This was a warm sunny afternoon, where were all you people? If it had been street level it would have been full.
Shame on you people for not giving a shit about the place now its “been saved”. We won’t be back, it’s a disgrace for a city centre.
Have Willow thought this through? In six months to a year this cute lamb is going to be a fully grown ram with horns, it will be stamping feet and butting everything in sight, is this suitable animal to be used as a therapy pet? These children are going to be a lot more attached after a year than they are now, how will they feel when a fully grown sheep charges at them head first?
Cracking review of what was a cracking evenings entertainment…
The evening was organised by ‘Folk at the Salmon Bothy’ (www.bothyfolk.com) and we have an open mic evening on the third Friday of the month at the Salmon Bothy in Portsoy – check out the website for details.
Coming up at the end of May (Fri 24th – Sun 26th) we have our annual Music Festival (The 4th Haal) which this year features Martin Carthy on the Friday evening and Eleanor McEvoy on the Saturday evening – again all details are on the website.
Details of all the workshops, singarounds etc. are on the website as well….
We plan to do more evenings featuring special guests – we have The Hot Seats performing on July 20th.
So if you like that sort of music come on down to Portsoy and help us make it a memorable evening!
It is the responsibility of the applicant, in this case TIGLS, to support their own planning application by complying with a site visit from Aberdeenshire Planning. They failed to do it by keeping the lights off. Importantly, this application is retrospective. They can have no compaints therefore, when the Council uphold the objections and refuse permission.
Or, does the Trump organisation have reason to believe that retrospective planning applications are “par for the course” in Aberdeenshire and that this latest one is just another shoo-in?
It’s worth mentioning to your readers that the bund in question is not the usual low affair designed to contain a fuel spillage from a tank, which is the usual purpose of a bund. No sir, Trump’s bund is almost 5m high, that’s more than the height of the upstairs windows of the cottage that it faces just 15m away. No way can this be justified on planning grounds or any other.
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OMG! Justin, this bloody government has a lot to answer for, how they can sleep at night.. is beyond me. They just don’t care about the ordinary people, all they care about is lining their own pockets.
All you went through with the accident and then they put this kind of pressure on you,it is despicable.
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The Press and Journal, and the Evening Express leave a lot to be desired, but it is very sad that over fourty people have lost their jobs. Part of me can’t help but think that Aberdeen Journals doesn’t really care much for Aberdeen folk and the North East anyway.
Of course we’re better together! Can’t have the Westminster Treasury going in to serious imbalance by the loss of the majority of North Sea revenues, whiskey taxes etc etc can we? We desperately need our youth to travel to far off lands to fight un-winnable wars and potentially lose their lives in the process.
Of course Trident is absolutely essential, as is nuclear power. The fact that we can’t afford to look after our sick and disabled, apparently, is a mere inconvenience.
We can’t afford to build council houses to put roofs over the heads of those on the ever increasing waiting lists is neither here nor there either. The Westminster dreamed up “bedroom tax” will solve that nasty problem. Yes, undoubtedly, we are better together.
I was born in Aberdeen and have lived in the area all my life, but I am absolutely dumbfounded that there are people who would want Scotland to be insular and separate.
It’s not a case of being “insular and separate” Sean. It’s a question of being in control of your own destiny; being governed by politicians who are accountable to the electorate, something those in Westminster are not to Scottish voters. No one is talking about putting up border posts at Carlisle and Berwick or deporting all English nationals resident north of the border. Under independence, things would carry on pretty much as at present, the major difference being that Scottish interests would be looked after by Scots, for the benefit of their fellow countrymen. Something that certainly never happens when the Conservative Party are voted in to power in Westminster. The inane bleatings of the “Better Together” group begger belief, the latest being the nonsense spouted about oil companies quacking in their boots at the thought of indepndence. That is probably why such massive investment is taking place in the industry north of the border, in the full knowlege that Scots may well vote for separation.
Sean, nobody wants Scotland to be insular and separate – quite the opposite in fact. As part of the UK, we’re forced to remain aloof from the rest of Europe, thanks to that peculiar strain of British attitude to foreigners that unfortunately dominates the way the UK government acts. Scotland should be a major player in the EU as we would be the third richest nation in it with independence; instead, we’re kept in the sidelines as the UK government sets its sights on taking us out of it, thanks to the UK parties’ constant pandering to this weird post-empire attitude that refuses to recognise Britain no longer rules the waves and that we’re just one of the many nation states in the modern world.
Independence doesn’t mean cutting ourselves off from the rest of the UK – it just means we don’t have to be dragged along for the ride if (or when) they decide to cut themselves off from everyone else.
I think the trouble is not with Aberdeen Journals (AJL) as such but the owners, D.C. Thomson (DCT). Previous owners of AJL were based hundreds rather than tens of miles away and AJL was run as a separate entity, with its own managing director running the show. When the last AJL MD retired his place was taken by a DCT CEO for publishing. I would imagine his allegiance is to DCT rather than AJL, and his job is to maximize profits across the DCT group. Unfortunately for AJL that means it no longer prints its own papers and dozens of redundancies.
The minute AJL was bought by D C Thomson the writiing was on the wall for AJL. The fact that the two head offices are only 60 miles apart meant that one would have to suffer. A new press was ordered and it went (naturally) to Dundee leaving Aberdeen without a press plus if you add the distribution going to Menzies it leaves only Advertising and Editorial at the Lang Stracht. As a former employee of AJL it saddens me so see a City like Aberdeen without a proper Aberdeen printed newspaper, but in the economic world that we live in I suppose this was always on the cards unfortunately.
I’ll certainly be out for The Hot Seats, Graham. Thanks for a great evening. I left my card with one of your colleagues – tell him to contact me and I’ll see if we can run a feature on the Bothy.
Having worked as a reporter at Aberdeen Journals for a number of years, I can confirm the place is a cesspit of bullying and misery.
Theres no such thing as honest journalism there. Everything published must meet with the agenda.
Kudos to Aberdeen Voice and outlets such as Twitter, which simply highlight how miserably these local newspapers are serving their communities. Do they hold power to account? No. Not if it conflicts with their interests. They are failing us completely.
Hello Kelvin – I appreciate the view from inside. I’m also very happy that my favourite publication Private Eye has taken up this story and agrees that this Bates/Malone relationship is a remarkable conflict of interest.
As to comments their relationship doesn’t matter – if that were true, they’d have been open about it. And yes, Aberdeen Voice did know they were involved, but this passed from rumour to fact when the marriage certificate was issued.
It’s not only a golf course. It’s an erosion of what was the highest designation of protection land can be given (SSSI status). It’s peoples’ lives.
As to the sweeping arguments that people in the past objected to progress, very true. We are now in the 21st century and are seeing the effects of long term loss of greenbelt and long term pollution. We know why we should be saving wildlife and our environment.
To all who’ve weighed in, thanks for keeping the debate lively – and live. Cheerio! Suzanne
I had hoped the area would have been turned into an open and green space, I was a bit shocked at the designs, the buildings are completely inappropriate. No wonder Aberdeen is known as the city of concrete.
Congratulations to whoever wrote this piece. It is not often these days to come across an example of stream of consciousness in prose. It may be drivel from beginning to end, but it at least shows that posturing by old lefties is as alive in Aberdeen, as it is in N Korea
Of course government must direct us Suzanne.We can’t possibly be allowed to think for ourselves, that would be decidedly dangerous. Think of all the little privitasation wheezes put in to place. Our utilities were sold of with the promise of lower bills. End result? Higher bills. Our public transport was treated similarly promising excellence of service and lower fares. did it happen? What did happen was that a small number of people became very rich while the rest of us got ripped off. Yes, government will always guide us and look after our best interests.
We were allowed to think for ourselves when we got the chance to vote on the UTG project, I seem to recall many here more than happy when the nanny state ignored the will of the people.
On the subject of UTG I went down there when the International market was in town, despite it being a beautiful day i was the only person down there apart from a couple of dodgy looking people in an arch, it was hard to believe that a few feet away was a busy bustling market. I can only imagine how many people would have used a raised garden that day to eat the food they’d bought and rest their feet.
Such a shame those who fought to stop this happening appear to have moved on to other left wing causes and have forgotten about the dank hole in the ground in our City centre, they could at least have the decency to pop down there now and again on a nice day.
It should be pointed out that the “food from Cafe 52” was actually paid for by the Unison union as a gift to the people of Aberdeen. It was, however, beautifully presented and served up with charming efficiency, as always, by Mrs B and her team from Cafe 52.
Load of left wing idealist rubbish, never any answers to how we’ll pay for lazy people to sit and live off benefits, never any answer as to how we can cut the huge debt Labour left us with (yes the very people who spoke at the rally actually created the debt and now moan about cutbacks).
I so hope the left wing leaflet that came through my door today entitled “Aberdeen Voice” has nothing to do with this site, the moment you take a political view no matter what side is the moment you give up the right to call yourself a site of the people.
I guess my personal beliefs or politics would be described as being left-wing, but I strongly dislike the Labour Party (and have good reasons to do so) who I thought were now, very much more a party of the centre than the left.
I’d quite like to see this leaflet; for Aberdeen Voice (this site) hasn’t produced anything which I know about. If it is implying there is a connection, we’d be interested.
Absolutely right George; FYI that other fly-by-night organisation the BBC covered this story as well. It’s good to see you demonstrate your empathy for other living creatures, and I’m touched at your concern that cruelty be prevented, detected and punished where found. Thank you for taking the time to comment to imply this is trivial.
I see his next world’s greatest golf course is to be in Dubai. Just a marginally greater chance there of any claim about it ‘encompassing’ the world’s highest dunes being true. As you say, sad.
It’s amazing the scarcity of golfers playing at Menie, which is something I have heard from different sources. Trump and his self-important staff like Sarah Malone really have fallen on their faces and the dirt will stick to those faces for a long time.
Thank you loons. If I had a can if Carlsberg here right now I’d raise it in a toast to you. Just before I poured it doon the sink and phoned Persley Sewage Works to warn them of dangerous effluent approaching.
No need for Brewdog on 83, Donald. In Neale Cooper we had our own Trashy Blond.
Good article yet again Suzanne. I watched David and Paul on TV tonight and couldn’t believe what I was hearing from the SNP twat about there just being a handful of nay-sayers against the development. It beggars belief and just shows up the SNP for the Salmond-worshipping sheep that they are.
Your words are very true Bob. Humans are the most destructive species on the Earth, and they forget that they are biological animals that are dependent on the nature which they are destroying. In the future Homo sapiens will become completely extinct (I predict less than a thousand years), scientists and academics provide theories as to how this will happen. One of the theories I have been thinking about, is that there will be a point of no return, the planet will become so sick by the behaviour and damage of humans, that a point will be crossed without people realising it.
This is a point in time where humans would of had a chance to stop and try to make their habitat healthier (the Earth), before a collapse of natural/biological systems that cannot be reversed. I think this will happen like a cascade and will be the begining of Homo sapiens extinction.
I object to the serious implication you make that I have or will receive or accept bribes. I refute entirely your allegations and put you on notice that I consider these defamatory and therefore actionable. I request that you desist from repeating them with immediate effect.
Fighting talk Gillian – where did you learn this ‘see you in court’ approach to public service – let me guess – from the shy and retiring, sexist, racist, bullying carnival huckster aka the Donald?
Good evening Cllr. Owen, perhaps you can answer this for me. Are we perhaps unwise in expecting much from our institutions, and that there is a mismatch between our expectations and reality and that perhaps your constituents expect too much from politics? Perhaps you can explain the lack of clarity about what you perceive are the long-term best interests of the Menie residents. On the other hand, is it wrong that we do rightly believe that councillors should govern in the interests of all, and that there should at least be fairness and a lack of double and shoddy standards?
**STOP PRESS** – Aberdeenshire Council are to consider one Mr Donald Trump’s application to re-name Balmedie “Trumptown.” It is anticipated that this will be nodded through, the norm for any Trump associated project.
This is a very good article which raises some important questions. Recently I read (and this is in several media sources), that Donald Trump is claiming that his “Human Rights” have been breached by the building of wind turbines off Aberdeen bay. I would like the Court of Session (where Mr Trump has now lodged legal action against the EOWDC), to ask TIGLS about the “Human Rights” of the Menie residents which the Trumps have blatantly destroyed.
Goodness, I have read the story above several times and find nothing that implies bribery. I’m worried now because I did consider myself literate. Of course it’s not me being accused so I would have no idea where such implications are in the text. However if I were guilty of such an allegation I would certainly see through any innuendo.
Dear Councillor Owen, I am most pleased that you find time to read my little satirical column; thank you for your interest. I think your comments must have to do with some other article somewhere else, for the word ‘bribe’ appears in your comment and not in the article; heavens forfend!
No doubt you are a champion of freedom of expression, and fully understand the place political satire has in the scheme of things. I am humbled that you found time to comment though. All the best, Suzanne.
PS – just out of interest, did you get any nice food to eat when you visited the Trump course as described in your newsletter, or did they not give you anything at all? There is, I’m told, a fantastic review of the clubhouse restaurant in the P&J today, and although far too pricey for the likes of me to enjoy, I’m sure the food must be special indeed. Cheerio!
I, too, have read the article more than once and am still looking for something that implies bribery. All I can say is that if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Invaluable stuff yet again from Suzanne and Rob, for which there is no other source of info, certainly not wir ain P&J! And why on earth does Aberdeenshire Council allow this to go on? But I agree with A. MacLeod – you can try to pin down a mobile sand dunes system, but the wind and the sea will prevail eventually.
work has been done; but ‘completed’ is a not word residents have used to describe it. ‘Chuckies’ have been put down; questions remain as to how suitable this is as a solution, and the drainage issues don’t appear to be addressed. Getting a clear answer from authorities to this and other questions is problematic
Trump’s development has been the only positive thing to happen up here for years. He has created a world class golf course on a desolate barren beach. I’m not his long lost brother by the way! As for the planning issue you might as well rename Aberdeen Milnetown.
My favourite read is Aberdeen Voice, but as subscriptions were mentioned, I’d like to post the weblink to the sought after publication highly regarded in the local area
If you do a we bit of digging about on the net you may find references to the Duke shooting boar in Germany as well. I think he has yet to shoot a ghillie though …
River Don Exhibition opens Saturday, June 1, 2013.
5:00pm until 7:00pm.
Join us to celebrate the launch of ‘Surfing the Don: a touring River Don photography exhibition’ in the majestic surroundings of St Machar’s Cathedral.
Surfing the Don is a dynamic community-led photography project celebrating the past, present and future of the river.
Launching at St Machar’s Cathedral with over 140 images then touring the city with subsequent exhibitions at Seventeen, Aberdeen University Library and Aberdeen University’s Natural History Centre.
Great piece, once again Suzanna and thanks mentioning the
Aberdeen Artist’s annual exhibition. Just goes to show what a rich vain of artistic talent we have here in the Deen. Hope you enjoyed the show in the Hammer.
Spot on Julian, A’ve deen ma ain research an I div think yer bein a bittie generous wi yer calculations.
Maist fowk in the Trump Organisation maun suffer fae the “Pinnochio” syndrum faar their noses keep growen.
Don’t you people have life’s to lead, leave the man and his golf course alone, your behaviour is akin to stalking. The vast majority of the people in our City support the course.
Why not use your energy to oppose the planned wind farm that is about to scar our coastline forever.
George,
We shall consider leaving the man alone when he leaves the Forbes, Milne and Munro families alone.Where do you get your evidence that the vast majority in the city support the course. Have you asked every citizen their view.? Thought not.!!!
Please dont say you get your evidence from P&J surveys!!!
“The vast majority of of the people in our city support the course,” George? I wonder what percentage of our good citizens actually play golf? I suspect, many, like myself, have no interest in the “sport” whatsoever and would be hard pressed to afford the fees associated with the Trump venue..
The building of an unneeded golf course on top of a SSSI?
The bullying of the local population?
The lying regarding the economic benefit to the NE community?
The involvement of the younger generation in politics is heartening. They should remember, however, that Holyrood is constrained by reduced funding from Westminster and, consequently, the aspirations of us all, in regard to funding education, among many other things, have to be realistic. Perhaps, if we have the foresight to vote for independence next year, our aspirations may become somewhat more attainable.
Of course it does Sean – less than it contributes overall true to say. Could it be to do with the low populace over great areas that require more support than the great conurbations of England?
We can take it, despite all the tirades and bluster, that the world’s best hotel, world’s best holiday homes and world’s best whatever else will be built given time. For the Trump organisation not to do so would mean a massive loss on the venture. It is fairly obvious, what ever the level of green fees, those alone cannot provide a significant return on the investment made.
At the end of the day, those playing the course will be watching the ball, not the proposed wind farm which has the potential to bring much greater wealth to the region..
While animal welfare is an important issue, perhaps you’re ire would be better directed at the government who have shown they have little regard for welfare of our fellow citizens. A woman commits suicide over the bedroom tax. Another terminally ill lady, found “fit for work” by the ATOS scam dies days later. Many thousands (including in Aberdeen) are reliant on food banks. Shamefully in 21st century Scotland.
I would rather lose everything I own than exist as a food animal.
Also, the vast majority of us who campaign for animal rights (I’m vegan & believe in animal rights rather than welfare) also campaign for human rights too. I have joined in protests against the cuts & I have the deepest sympathy for the poor woman who committed suicide as a result of the impact of the bedroom tax.
I am perfectly capable of campaigning for both but as much as I dislike everything about this government I am fairly confident that they are not going to remove my teeth without anaesthesia, take my offspring each time I give birth, slaughter me when I am no longer of any use or grind me up alive as a waste product of the egg industry…
Sorry this is off topic, but I have to share an idea with you guys.
Taxman is looking for a fair way to tax ppl in an already unfair tax system.
If the country needs to pull itself out of a hole, why not sell off the BBC? Think about it,
When toys are us sells a Dr who doll, who gets the profits?
The BBC must be worth billions to somebody, we can use the recent 100million Doon ‘e’ swanny as aspringboard for justification.
Ooh! I love windfarms, I also enjoy a game of golf, but golf is a game best taken not too seriously eh? Its more fun when its just a bit of fun eh?
Loving duthie park BTW,
the subsidised buses full of oap’s riding for free, are tearing up the speedbumps in cove, can they be made to renew please? (not the oap’s – bless em.)
Also, local gov should let ppl know how much things cost. The Manny that looks after the council greenspaces in my area looks like he comes all the way up from Glasgow. Maybe local entrepreneurs could do it cheaper and it would drive council costs down as a result?
I love nice tatties, I could eat stovies or chip suppers every day. One of the things I like best about Scotland is the food. I’m mad on skirlie too, but when ever I try to make it, it never tastes as fine as when somebody else has made it.
Sean,
A’m a great lover o skirlie as weel.Bit aabody maks it ower dry nooadays. The only placie fit made affa gweed skirlie wis the Metro Hotel[noo the Rox} in Mairket Street.
Oh, but didn’t you know – Trump’s paying for all of this out of the change in his back pocket. Do you honestly think anyone would be so stupid as to invest with him?
Wow so true, it makes me ashamed to be human. We really are brain washed, people have a right to see how animal food is created so they can make a true decision should they eat meat.
I can just imagine all you do gooders if Mr Trump was behind the windfarm plan, fact is none of you care about the environment or the people living at Menie, you’re just a bunch of socialists who hate the man because of his wealth.
Why no uproar at the tens of people being forced out of their homes in Tillydrone because of a bridge? again if a rich person was behind that you’d all be out with your placards.
George, I want to reply to your post, but until you make it clear who you are referring to by the terms ‘you people’, ‘you do-gooders’ and ‘bunch of socialists’, I am at a loss where to start.
If you could actually engage with the issues in the article you are commenting on, then it might look a lot less as if you come on here purely to insult people you dont agree with.
George,
I have never read such a load of clap trap in my life.If you care to take the trouble to read the articles which have appeared in AV re Trump you shall see clearly many are concerned about the environment and the Menie families. The fact he is rich has got damn all to do with it.Democracy has however a lot to do with what has happened at Menie.As regards the bridge being built over the Don which shall effect the residents of Tillydone I would point you in the direction of a poem which appeared in the AV -“A BRIG OWER FAR”
I don’t agree with people hounding Mr Trump, even if no one ever played the course is it really public interest, why not snoop into other local golf courses to see how many people are playing them? It’s clear the site has a large socialist following, the same people slap the same backs week in week out.
Instead of counting how many golfers are using a course they should perhaps be visiting Union Terrace gardens, the garden “they saved” (nothing to do with a rich man being involved), it still remains empty and desolate, it was dropped like a hot potato as soon as the next big bandwagon came along for them to jump on.
I’m still amazed that the next bandwagon isn’t a massive wind farm on our shores, I’ll tell you why no one cares about it? because of a blind hatred of a rich American. It sickens me that seemingly intelligent people only care when a rich person can be opposed. Dress it up and deny it all you like but this is a socialist mouth piece of a site.
Tillydrone, plenty of people being kicked out of their homes, I mean actually kicked out, not a Menie where no one was evicted, no rich person involved so who cares.
OK, I get ye. If anything is not being addressed in Aberdeen Voice George, it is because no-one is bothering to write about it. You know how we work, as you have been told more than once. We have also invited you to write a piece and offered assistance if necessary. To date, nothing, outwith the comments boxes, usually having a go at folks who do actually make the effort.
This always reminds me of that football fan who will shout for 90 minutes about the shortcomings of a particular player, verbally abuse him for his mistakes and tell him what they should be doing instead …. when all the time, said ‘football fan’ is incapable of jogging 20 yards without turning blue.
The latest articles about Menie have come from people who are either very familiar with the situation on the ground at Menie, or who actually live in the area. We would of course welcome news, info and opinion pieces from people similarly connected with the issues at Tillydrone, or Bridge of Don for that matter. Having already published material about the Don crossing, it should be plain that we are receptive to such input. But again, you know that George.
As to your insults, and for not making you laugh, what I find more laughable is being labelled a ‘bunch of socialists’ or a ‘socialist mouthpiece’ by someone who has fairly recently voiced support for the EDL and their thug leader Tommy Robinson. Perhaps it’s all comparative George, in which case, the mouldering corpse of ol’ Maggie T is a raving lefty compared to the position you appear to be coming from – so please forgive me for not weeping into my scarlet banner.
To cap it all, a guy who’s living depends on the installation of hulking great structures all around our shores, boring through the earth’s crust, bringing with them the risk of extensive pollution, believes there should be more opposition to a dozen wind turbines??
Did I see the word ‘Hypocrite’ written somewhere?
Another piece of advice George, especially if you change your mind and think of writing an article for AV, whenever you use the words ‘fact is’ in a sentence, it is a very good idea to follow up with something you not only know to be factual, but can demonstrate to be factual…. not a series of groundless accusations aimed at no-one in particular other than some figment of your own imagination.
Also when questioning why no-one is taking a particular action on a particular issue, first ask yourself what you yourself are doing about it.
In spite of what you think, and would encourage others to think George, Aberdeen Voice does welcome differing views on issues…. whether here in the comments section, or as a contributed article. But there is a difference between presenting an opposing view or challenging the basis of a writers work, and dishing out unsubstantiated accusations and insults – a difference which you would do well to study if you expect to be taken seriously.
Sticking to the facts, it isn’t easy to monitor usage of golf courses. It is labour intensive, even where there is an online facility like at TIGL. But you do have a point here.
As a means of using a benchmark, I monitor the 5 courses at St Andrews that are bookable online, so I can get a feeling for the general pattern of golfing on a particular day in Scotland. These five courses are usually almost fully booked – I think the maximum number of empty slots on a single day this season has been around 15 (across the five courses together), and it’s usually around 5 to 10. Most days at the Trump course there’s 15 free slots or more and that’s just for the one course. The figures for both TIGL and St Andrews are checked at the same time – after 6pm on the night before.
I am not sufficiently informed about the other points you make so cannot comment on them;. But I can say I had not taken much notice of Mr Trump until I heard of what he was doing at Menie. So my “blind hatred of a rich American” has only come about because of his actions in Aberdeenshire, and a growing understanding of his arrogant, bullying, self-agrandising, and totally self-centred approach to business and relationships with others. In the UK we have just gone through quite a bit of trauma coming to terms with abuse through bullying by people in “show business” (eg the recent resident of Glencoe, Jimmy Saville). We must surely learn to stand up to bullies, even if they are rich americans.
Julian,
You didn’t just compare Donald Trump antics at Mennie to the long list of paedophilia acts by Jimmy Saville? I know the guy is distasteful but really that’s one very poor comparison, and you told George to stick to the facts!!!
No Jim, I didn’t. I said the common issue was bullying. I certainly had no intention of suggesting that Trump was up to the things that Saville was up to. And I apologise if that’s how it read.
So my facebook page is me making information available to the public?
I think for myself Fred unlike the blind followers here, If I want to voice my opinion I will.
Julian’s latest reply even has me shaking my head in disbelief, he’s comparing a newly built golf course with historic old courses that have stood for over a 100 years, like any new course it will take time to grow and flourish, compare with like for like links courses if you want a real comparison. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond belief.
Perhaps Julian would be better spending his time researching how much damage offshore wind farms do and how much subsidies they need to operate, that is the real danger facing Aberdeen at the moment, along with plans for a “super” mosque we could see our coastline scarred forever. A links golf course doesn’t even register when it comes to the real issues.
Not that I expect a Socialist website to even think about covering the concerns of placing a huge building at our beachfront, Mr Trump or Wood should offer to fund it, that might do the trick.
You can keep your rice and your pasta, supermarket bread and new age grains – give me tatties any time. I get Golden Wonders from Newbiggin Farm near Inverurie – they are golden wonderful!!
Great article Sue. This should be sent to the BBC, STV and all national newspapers. And still the local authority and the Scottish Gvt. do nothing. It bodes ill for Scotland.
I think there are lots of local people who have no idea of what is going on and this does deserve a much wider audience. The Daily Mail would probably love an article like this.
Just a shame that his “new” course hadn’t been the original one, leaving the SSSI intact and avoiding all the acrimony and annoyance to the residents. No one likes a bully and Trump has proved himself to be such on so many occasions. Perhaps, as a condition of allowing his new course to be built, Aberdeenshire Council should insist that the original plans be implemented and and all constructions/deviations from them should be put right. We can but live in hope.
Having no car (nor do I want one), I find the bus service in Aberdeen as good as any other Scottish city. Yes, the fares are expensive but bargains are to be had (The Stagecoach Megarider springs to mind). Yes, they do get delayed by traffic. Yes, they do break down now and again. On the whole, the drivers are courteous and efficient. If you are pleasant to them, then they will reciprocate. As the contibutor notes, it is stressfull driving in Aberdeen. Given our bus and lorry drivers have to do it for many hours daily, is it any wonder they can be a tetch grumpy at times? They are only human after all. Excepting the peak periods, understandably, buses are fairly reliable, if you care to take the trouble to consult the timetable.
I agree most are lovely drivers, we are all capable of having our off days drivers too. Timetables are always consulted, buses do not always turn up. I still maintain that you never know what is going on in a persons life, they may experiencing the worst of their fears, if you are in a job of any type of service then it remains your job to be polite. I would still opt for the bus over the car however 🙂
Got to agree with you Smithy. I’ve no car, no “labels”, no flat screen telly, dvd player or cd player or smartphone. I live in a council flat and have modest income, but you know what? I’m happy! Wonder of all those individuals who crave everything consumerist and get themselves in to massive debt acquiring it can say likewise?
I think it’s a safe bet that Nigel and his motly crew will have minimal support in Scotland. The term “smarmy git,” springs to mind. Not the type of person Scots are drawn to naturally.
So well put. Having voted SNP all my life I wonder how I could possibly vote for them again given Alex Salmond’s imput into the Menie fiasco. This is our indigenous people being treated so badly for what? ‘inward investment?’ do we need this in the Aberdeen area? No! I intend to ask my MSP why the Menie residents have been treated to badly, why in an SSI tarmac was laid, fences were pushed in, bunds were built…..this is wrong! Living in rural Galloway this could also happen here under the guise of ‘plenty jobs’…no, not at any cost, before we vote for independence we must find out the integrity of our leaders.
The Lib-Dems once did the same a few years ago when putting out a pre-election newsletter called “Ferryhill Focus” to the public – the same name as our own strictly non-political Community Council Quarterly Newsletter which had been published for years and distributed all over Ferryhill. However, as we always supplied the British Library and Aberdeen Central Library with a copy, I, as Editor, complained to Aberdeen City Council and the L-Ds had to cease using the name immediately. Unfortunately, I presume that as ‘Aberdeen Voice’ is not a printed publication, it possibly doesn’t have any copyright protection? Correct me if I am wrong!
Not sure Irene, you make some very good points here. Aberdeen Voice has been on the go for 3 years and is non-partisan. I am not sure how old the Aberdeen Labour party is.
The name Aberdeen Voice wouldn’t fall under the auspices of Copyright Law, instead it’d come under Trademark laws. Copyright is to do with the creation and protection of original material whereas Trademark laws protect the identity of brands and companies.
In any case the there is little to no difference between a printed document or a web document and in AV’s case we can prove that we’ve been publishing for that period by showing old articles and also the fact we own the domain name for that period. That would be sufficient for copyright law, but for trademark we’d need to register the name/branding with the IPO.
hoping all this will be over soon for you both and can get back to normal , the bus service here in edinburgh is not to great either trish which i hate taking , always some ass hole like a junkie , drunk or some other making the journey not a pleasant one lol x x x x x
J Scott Skinner wrote a tune called “The Bonnie Lass O Bon Accord” Pity he wasn’t around to compose one about a certain Trumpophile and entitle it “The Bonnie Ass O Bon Accord”
After the malevolent behaviour of Aberdeen City Council and it’s chums in stopping Peacock Visuals Arts development in Union Terrace Gardens; I thought it was a joke the first time I heard the council wanted Aberdeen to be known as the “City of Culture”.
Like the Ostrich, I suspect that the City of Culture Award Committee ran like the wind from Aberdeen’s application. Seemingly the large,long legged, flighless birds can achieve over 40mph over a level playing field.
Wow, what an amazing story, it seems yet again that the police have bungled their way through this situation ,I hope that they are made to explain their ineptitude and that Dod is suitably compensated for his terrible treatment, this is no way to treat a “victim of circumstance “, especially someone who suffers a medical condition such as Dod.
There was no blunder. The police are nought but vandals, and will destroy anything within reach. Whether there is any reason to believe they have a legal, exigent or no right to do so. A long prison term as well as restitution is appropriate by the political unit, and the vandals themselves.
I had no idea that this had happened to Dod, that’s disgusting! Sadly though I am not surprised about the appalling way in which he was treated. My partner is still fighting Aberdeen police after a similar incident over 5 years ago where they inapropriately used CS gas on him amongst other things.
Dod I wish you well and will watch this space with interest.
Firstly thanks to the Aberdeen Voice for exposing this scandalous story. This is an astonishing abuse of power and totally unacceptable, I intend to write to Police Scotland expressing my disquiet and for them to explain their outrageous treatment of an innocent man, I will also contact my MSP regarding this matter.
flabbergasted,upon reading this first thing ,had to re-read ,then check calendar to see not april 1rst.unfortunately not the case and only too real.incomprehendible set of circumstances leading to an innocent party bein de-humanised ,forfeited rights and medical treatment,not forgetting anguish of invasiveness of ones home.it would appear that once a known character ,stooping to a new low is not beyond (human) ,used loosely,capabilities.i hope to see favourable outcome at some point,hope youre rising above all this Dod,and keeping in good health.my feather duster now taking backseat incase of reprisals,just be careful when using your “Armoury” especially hoover which in certain light might be mis-construed as weapon of mass destruction,when clearing up damage done.thoughts are with you.good luck.x
If he hadn’t commited a offence in the first place they wouldn’t of needed to do a search of his home and whats to say he didn’t damage his things to get sympathy??? He wasted police and tax payers money by phoning say’n someone was being held hostage!!! karma springs to mind!!!!
Dear Laura – oh dear; I guess my writing has somehow caused you to reach the wrong conclusion. The man who resides in this flat did not place the hoax call. He was not there during the siege; he was completely innocent of anything warranting a siege, making any hoax calls or anything but having toys and a fuzzy orange brush. I hope you will take back your implication that he would have trashed his flat deliberately; if you don’t know, when police search premises, they can be extremely destructive. Please let me know what part of the story has you confused. I will find another way to explain it all if this comment has not helped you. Thank you, Suzanne
Shocked but no longer surprised at the police. After the Menie debacle you would think one of the high heidyuns at Lodgewalk would have learned a valuable lesson but their complete ineptitude and abandon of care shows them to be the halfwits we already knew them to be.
As for you Laura, can you not read, digest and think more carefully before posting such utter tripe?
You’re referring to Liverpool in this as a UK City of Culture, it was in fact, a European City of Culture. THis year is the first time a UK CoC has been tried, and Londonderry won it. Aberdeen pulled out of the race 4 years ago when it was considering going for 2013.
yours, Phil.
Good point; thank you. We can still use the Liverpool experience to use as a benchmark. I have read a few reports, written by those who were behind the events as well as Private Eye pieces which were hardly a ringing endoresment for this scheme or Liverpool’s implementation. Hard to get black and white (or should I say red) figures on how Liverpool did. We do know costs were incurred, and public money was used. I see the same financial bottom line for the UK version of this competition; we’ll see how it turns out. Or not – as at present Aberdeen don’t even seem to want us to be able to read what their submission was. Watch this space… PS – I hope the Lord Provost will make this a year of cultural events – open to people of all ages, financial backgrounds and abilities.
Funny really… Dundee seemed to have acheived all this with little or no fuss. Take the DCA ( Dundee Contemporary Arts): invisaged in 1996 by Dundee Printmakers Workshop and realised in 1999 at a cost of £9million. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Difference is, no alternative proposal to scupper it, along with the baggage of two referendums and media hype which only served to divide opinion.
Dundee now have an established, internationally renowned contemporary arts centre in a prominent city centre location. In Aberdeen we have an internationally renowned contemporary arts centre and workshop stuck down a close off the Castlegate.
It could have been so different.. but what the hey….
I’ve always enjoyed my visits to Dundee, I’m glad they were short listed for the “City of Culture” award. The people are friendlier and it feels much safer to be out and about during the day or night.
I hope George recovers soon after this very unpleasant experience. It reminded me of the intimidation I have received from council staff, while living in a similar council house.
The police would certainly do that during a search for weapons or drugs, I would certainly be wondering what the hoaxer said during his interview for them to take follow up action.
The police were approached prior to publication twice. They have failed thusfar to reply to me and to at least one other journalist at a major broadcaster. In the public interest the story was published; as the article states, we will print a police reply when received.
Thank you for your concern as to the use of the word ‘arrested’ instead of the word ‘detained’; please feel free to share this concern with the Evening Express, which wrote:- “However, no one was inside and a 29-year-old man was later arrested in connection with wasting police time.” in its article which can be found here: http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/3271733 Having said that, the AV editorial team have changed my word ‘arrested’ for the word ‘detained’.
The purpose of this article is to make the public aware of the story Mr Copland shared with AV; again, the police are free to respond, and I hope to hear from them on this matter soon.
As it stands, the treatment he told me about – following an event days earlier at his home which was triggered by an acknowledged hoax call – is extremely worrying and unacceptable. I hope you can agree that is what is at issue.
Here is the story in the Scottish Sun – the photo of the flat is shocking. As someone waiting for the police to get back to them, I was surprised to see the police comment in the Sun piece – they say they have corroborated reports of a man with a firearm, and that is what sparked their search.
I therefore suggest anyone who owns an air rifle (which I don’t approve of by the way) to expect their flat to be trashed as well. But as the air rifle in question was, I am told, not on display or in use, but in a locked space, I am baffled by the corroborated report. We need to find out what time this report of a firearm was made and whether there is a connection between the people who reported it and the hoax caller. If Copland was not at his flat at the time the report was made – he wasn’t there at the siege and he wasn’t there when arrested – there are some large questions to be answered http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4979571/Huckle-duster-gaffe-as-cops-grill-man-over-fluffy-cleaning-aid.html
Look at it from the police point of view a point of view where public safety is paramount. Someone states that a person has a gun and is willing to use it (I will point out some air rifles and air pistols can look very real to someone who doesn’t know) Someone known to the police who has a history of mental health problems by his own admission, they go to the property and find a gun but no owner, two other’s confirm the original accuser’s story and the police then go looking for and search any other property where he may have stashed a weapon. Surely this is standard procedure you see it every day on the news when someone is arrested on suspicion of something the police will search friends and family’s property. It is also the detainee’s prerogative to ask for a lawyer to be present during questioning not the police to appoint one.
Let’s now look at recent gun crime history in the UK Dunblane there are still on-going accusations and calls for a public enquiry into the actions of authorities in not identifying Thomas Hamilton as a threat despite countless complaints about him.
I am in no way comparing Dod or this case to the actions of Thomas Hamilton, only trying to show the difficult decisions that have to be made by police and authorities with the information they have at the time. Will they get it right every time no but they are only human, can any of you say that every decision you have made was right especially when your under pressure and have 3 people telling you the same thing ?
Personally I would rather see a hundred innocent citizens searched detained and questioned if it stops 1 more massacre.
Hello Jim, when the police get it wrong, firstly I expect that they will make restitution for broken possessions, apologise, and undo damage done. Secondly, this newly-released statement that they had corroborated evidence of someone with a gun makes very little sense at present. When did this exactly happen? Surely not at the time they arrested Copland at his girlfriend’s house in the wee hours. If they had reports of a gunman, I’d like to know where the gunman was, where the gunman was, and how much time elapsed between reports of the gunman and the police going to the scene. This story is at present not adding up, except to be that anyone with an air rifle (which I do not like at all but which is legal) or a remote control toy is fair game as a suspect and their rights and property do not matter. I expect the decisions the police take to be made to the letter of the law. If a suspect says he needs medication for that matter, and a doctor is promised as Copland says, what went wrong? Why did they release the name of the hoax caller to Copland – what due procedure is this? Sorry, I am not seeing much about the siege or Copland’s arrest that I would call standard at all.
Suzanne you have one side of this story why are there 3 people with the same story the hoaxers name never came from the police but from Dod himself Fact I hope you get the truth
Dear Jim, I do hope the police will give me the information I requested soon; it will be published. With regard to your comments, we need to make sure we are not muddling two different events. 1. a hoax caller – acknowledged to be a hoax – said a gunman was inside a flat which was empty. The police arrested a 29 year old man for wasting police time in this regard. 2. As to the ‘corroborated’ report of a ‘male with a firearm’ this must be a different event – otherwise clearly the police would have had to arrest the corroborators for being part of the acknowledged hoax. 3. When arrested, it was early morning, and days after the hoax – Copland was not found with any gun. Therefore it certainly seems either the 2 incidents were days apart or if not, that the police took their time about reports of someone running around with a firearm, or they somehow decided the gunman had to be Copland, and then arrested him later on – did they leave a gunman on the streets? Until we know what time the ‘male with firearm’ report and corroboration came in, and where the gunman allegedly was, these two episodes – the hoax and Copland’s arrest do not in my opinion inspire faith in the police or assure me of their openness and transparency after the arrest of someone who is not guilty of a crime.
You seem certain ‘the hoaxer’s name never came from the police but from Dod himself Fact’ – can you please supply me with evidence of this claim you make, many thanks.
While I’m disappointed that the city missed out on the City of Culture bid, I can’t say I’m surprized by it. I don’t think that we should pursue the idea to have a year of culture in 2017 if Dundee win it would be hard to attract visitors with the main event going on 60 miles south, but I do believe the council and committee should push on with making culture more widely available in Aberdeen. With the sale of Woolmanhill Hospital there is an opportunity for ACC to create an area of culture in Aberdeen city centre from HMT to the Gallery Wollmanhill to the triple kirks. As pointed out Peacocks is located down a lane in the Castle gate wouldn’t it be beneficial to all if it moved to an iconic building the triple kirks ACC could look into buying it through compulsory purchase. Woolmanhill would have plenty of room to create studios for photography, art, dancing and drama.
The previous City of Culture winners – ‘Derry and Liverpool – were both in urgent need of regeneration. The same can’t be said for Aberdeen can it? OK, we have The Haudupagain and weeds growing out of half the empty shops in Union Street, but we have a good industrial base and high employment (thanks to the oil) compared to Dundee which has suffered from high unemployment for decades.The heady days of jute, jam and journalism are long gone alas.
Did this prestigious award benefit any of the ordinary folk in ‘Derry and Liverpool I wonder? Would it have done anything for ordinary folk in Aberdeen, or Dundee for that matter? Given £1m plus was wasted by the SNP on The Granite Web fiasco, I suppose we should be grateful that Labour only wasted £500k on The City of Culture bid. That £1.5m would have gone a long way to building a railway halt at Muggiemoss or Cove which would have been much more use than any “award.”
Surely if weapons were being looked for sniffer dogs would be more effective and leave less mess – the photos in a national paper yesterday looked more like a herd of rhinos had torn through the place. Good luck Dod. Keep your chin up.
I hope all you people who objected to the UTG project and the regeneration of our City Centre are proud of yourselves, we now have nothing but an empty hole in the ground and an ever dwindling Centre.
I went into UTG when the International market was in town, despite a busy bustling Union Terrace the garden was empty, my daughter objected to even going down the stairs as she was scare of the place.
And to think a local businessman was going to donate £50 Million from his own pocket to take the current shambles to street level and people still moaned! Let’s not forget the referendum where the people of Aberdeen spoke, an utter disgrace that a small minority shouted loudly and got their wish against the wishes of the majority.
When we’re up against people like that it is no surprise the City of Culture bid got nowhere, our City is a crumbling disgrace and we have the worst Nimbys in the whole World, a golf course can’t even be built without the usual suspects stomping their feet, to hell with what the people want, WE KNOW BETTER!
The Gardens were empty when The International Market was on George were they? What did you expect. In regard to The “City Garden Project” : You conveniently forget that Sir Ian said he would, “walk away,” if Aberdonian’s voted against his proposal initally. They did and he didn’t. They were then bombarded with downriight lies and a myriad of half truths, leading to a marginal vote in favour (20% of the population voted if I recollect correctly – a minority of the population?). We had “consultations” where a fair number of comments were not recorded because they were “inconvenient” to the proponents. That devious effort of the business community getting their hands on a prime city centre site is now dead thankfully. Live with it George.
Ian sorry “George” clearly you haven’t read the recent released information on the economics of the plan, which show that if it had went ahead, we’d have been left with a half finished building site for the next decade as there was no way it could be afforded and there was a massive shortfall in donations.
But don’t let fiscal reality or common sense knock you off your tedious and ill-informed taxi-driver rant soap-box. Amazing how anti-cultural plebs still fixate on CGP years later, like a crazed monkey banging it’s head against a cage. There’s plenty other dummies out there to chew on, little cry baby.
Before judging our city of culture bid as failing due to this project, might be an idea to broaden your horizons and get a feel for what culture actually is. Here’s a starter tip for Philistines like yourself. It’s not another boring shopping centre, fields of concrete, architectural vandalism or kissing the arse of big business.
There was only one referendum, democracy was ignored, something I never thought I’d ever see in my Home City. I for one wasn’t aware of an initial consultation, of course all the activists were and voted several times.
You reap what you sow and now have the City centre you deserve.
The socialist mindset that all rich people must be opposed has done enough damage in our City, time you gave it a rest for the good of the vast majority.
And Ron, yes they were empty, despite it being a really nice day and the Terrace mobbed, it’s past its sell by date, instead of a vibrant Centre we’ve been left with a dank hole in the ground surrounded by roads and rail lines, again well done all those involved.
I’ve read with interest that a friend of the activists plans to open a cafe down there, I despair that anyone would think that is going to make one bit of difference towards City regeneration or improve the area, a pathetic gesture.
Perhaps next time you sit in Brewdog in your Arran jumpers flying red flags discussing your next crusade you’ll take a step back and take a look at the damage you’ve already done to the city.
Dear George, Perhaps it slipped your memory, but from the outset Labour said they would not be bound by any referendum, because they had problems with the idea from the start. There was a great deal wrong with the referendum; for one thing it was waged by the pro-web side using huge amounts of money which the people who wanted to save our green space would never be able to match. The bias of the local printed press also helped; they printed scores of pro-web propaganda, much of which doesn’t stand up to the slightest amount of scrutiny.
The referendum was filled with problems as I wrote at the time. The project won this skewed contest with the smallest of margins for a massive expense. Labour had said –‘vote for us and we will stop the granite web.’ The public voted Labour in. They stopped the web. (Indications are that they have some saner, more affordable plans for our city as well, hopefully which will not involve borrowing nearly 100 million on a precarious TIF loan. Sadly, Salmond can’t stop punishing us for our choice. He will soon learn to leave the web out of it, mark my words.
The park will be greatly improved by a social enterprise – we can finally have a coffee/snack/socialising area which every single other major city in the UK has in its parks. The profits will be 100% put to fixing the gardens further. We had a past administration which squandered money on ridiculous schemes while cutting services to the most needy groups in society, and of course while neglecting our common good land.
It’s a park. It’s ours. It’s not a development opportunity.
You’re never going to get over it, but as long as you and others refuse to look at brownfield oportunities and leave the park alone, I and others will point out where your thinking is going wrong. Guess I won’t be seeing you at BrewDog; a great shame. The creativity, open-mindeness, intelligence of its customers, staff and founders alike would benefit you, as perhaps a pint of Punk IPA would as well. Tally ho.
I’m well aware you are a friend of the cafe owner, so please don’t bore me with bias claims, pot kettle.
Your Socialist agenda reeks, almost every article you write is an attack on either big business or a rich person, you need to stop basing your thoughts in such a bias manner.
You and others like you have ruined the only chance we have of seeing proper regeneration, a cafe in a shed and a lick of paint isn’t going to make that park busy, it isn’t going to regenerate the area either. Take off your blinkers and see the damage you’re doing, people voted for it, no matter how you spin it your side lost, at least have the decency to respect democracy.
Our City Centre is a shambles, one man offered a life line, of course the ultra rent a mob trade union type lefties wouldn’t be having that, we want our dank manky hole in the ground, how dare a rich man try and improve such a huge underused crap space, hoe dare he use money to fund surrounding regeneration.
Your ilk think you’re intelligent and above the working man but you never will be, ever, you can’t think logically as your mind is so anti establishment, you do damage to the citizens of the City where I was born and raised, you create nothing.
So you sit drinking your crap over priced beer and pat yourselves on the back, but perhaps afterwards visit union street on the way home, see the shambles you’ve left behind, all because you couldn’t stand a rich man wanting to improve the area.
A raised square would have brought a cafe culture, concerts, exhibitions, markets, ice rink, a real focal point for the people to gather, think of that next time you gaze over the railway lines and dual carriageway.
George Smith, can you help me explain why, on reading your posts, the words ‘medication, lie, down, darkened’, and ‘room’ keep running through my mind?
The play park is another bizarre idea, what right minded parent would let their child go play in there without constant supervision, the park is a magnet for drunks and drug takers. My daughter is 14 and wouldn’t dream of going down there with her friends.
With it raised the green space would have doubled, families would have been drawn to it, roll on the next election so we can replace this joke of a council and get the project underway.
George: I live near to and pass the park regularly, occasionally using it for what it was intended. I’d love to know where you get all this nonsense about alcoholics and drug taking individuals overtaking it, unless you’re talking after dark, when all parks attract dubious individuals. I regularly see families down there on a sunny day, especially when some event is being held. Perhaps it’s your warped outlook on life being passed on to your child that is affecting her?
George
What a load of absolute bloody codswallop. My wife and I have for years used the Gardens as a
place to get from Union Street to Schoolhill. The amount of times in all these years we have seen anyone resembling “undesirables”. could be counted on one hand.FACT!!! There are more druggies and alchoholics walking up and down Union Street in one day than you would see in the gardens in a year. FACT!!
I stopped buying Aberdeen Journals “newspapers” in the seventies because of their disgraceful role in the process that led to the sacking of Summerhill School head teacher R.F. Mackenzie in 1974.
The story was the subject of at least two Open University TV programmes. One pointed out that the fuss was dying down and the local newspapers decided to stir it up again.
No doubt good for sales.
In my view, the school never really recovered and is now a pile of dust.
I’m afraid to admit that newspapers are purveyors of newspapers and not purveyors of truth.
They each have an agenda. There is a very good living to be made by promoting an agenda. They are really propaganda sheets.
Is the Aberdeen Journals/DC Thomson agenda a force for good or ill?
You decide.
“Scotland will be free, said the historian Tom Nairn, when the last minister is strangled by the last copy of the Sunday Post.”
Oh dear. Our “George” is going to go apoplectic at this one. He can add it to his hysterical rants about drunks and addicts which we mere mortals never see.
All animals should be given a chance. It’s time we stepped in and for the Government to take the Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006 in to consideration, before it’s too late.
Doin ma best Bob. Ye ken athing aboot the Turra Coo? Its around the 100th anniversary this year. Fancy a cooperative wee venture on the subject? Apoligies for my “Doric”.
There was one in Aberdeen at Rubislaw Church I think plus one in Dundee. You can organise a local screening by following the links and borrowing a copy of the film.
This is a lovely story, unfortunately I love to eat chicken. I only managed eight months as a vegetarian when I was in my twenties, I do feel guilty at times eating meat but it’s far too difficult being a veggie.
The AWPR will cut pollution rates, the less time spent in cars and less people sitting at bottlenecks can only be good for the City, roll on and get it built.
A few horses getting moved in the big scheme of things doesn’t really register. They’ll be well compensated for the land and buildings.
There seems to be no limit to Mr Smith’s talents; he seems to be an equine expert on top of the rest of his skills. However, the rest of us were reading an article in which those who run Blaikiewell Sanctuary explained that the compensation offered is not enough money to maintain the 60 horses they care for in suitable premises, let alone take in any more animals. All at a time when horses and ponies are being dumped across the UK due to the financial mess everyone is in (well, except those who shelter money offshore that is). Tally ho!
I am really impressed that the Voice is able to publish this stuff. Dogging, after all is a minority pursuit and wont sell digital papers. Perhaps the Aberdeen daily should take a lead from this initiative.
George, that is the most honest and illuminating comment I have seen from you to date, and sums you up rather well … particularly the ‘as long as it doesn’t affect my life’.
Kinda gives a new perspective to the folks you slur as red flag waving, backward looking, arran jersey wearing, brewdog frequenting, anti progress, etc,etc, etc, in that you appear to have a problem with folks who want to make a better environment for others ( including their offspring ) than just for themselves ….. Looks like you have just admitted that your real problem with your imaginary enemies is that they might just have the capacity to affect “your life” … you poor thing!
Now George, how about you have a wee review of the occasions you have brandished the ‘NIMBY’ label at others, and reflect on how it fits on your own napper in light of the above post. It all becomes clear …. we are all stupid if we dare suggest that we value anything above what affects the life of George Smith …
All hail Dod Smith for the value and status of his life is so much greater than the lives of all others that it must not to be affected by the views, acts or omissions by others whatever their social standing or term of office.
… In fact, lets just do as ther above article suggests …. but rename Dogging as Dodding as a mark of reverence and respect, … hey, might even scare away all those hordes of junkies, winos, paedophiles, dirtbags, etc we are led to believe are a constant presence ( by folks who have never been there of course ) And so I say, ….. in the name of the Lord Dod, make it so! 🙂
Just stumbled upon this story, I am Kathryn’s (founder of homes4hens) Husband. she will be really pleased. Thank you for this write up.
If anybody reads this and would like to give a home to some ex-farmed hens, homes4hens now has collection points in Falkirk, Glasgow, Dumfries, Carlisle and Galashiels,
Good point Dave. To be honest I am surprised they failed to exploit the gap left when MFI went bust a year or so back. The removal man also told me that he had seen IKEA’s Polish factory which he described as being as a “monsterous forest munching machine!”
Absolutely – thank you for correcting! Error fixed now. (NB Aberdeen Voice used to receive a large number of press releases from BiG; I understand we would be happy to be kept in the loop by the in-house team as well)
Willie Young today announced all plans to pedestrianise Union Street are now off the table, wasn’t this the master plan after the CGP was not carried though despite the wishes of the people.
So instead of a new vibrant City centre we have…..NOTHING!
Yeah thanks folks, well done, you turned down a £50 Million donation for political reasons and have left the citizens of Aberdeen with a decaying centre.
The mind of the Councillor playing at being a politician and those of the socialist activists truly is remarkable.
I could provide a real newsworthy story, I know one of the Councillors who voted against the CGP, his garden is a shambles and is overgrown with 4 foot weeds, its not been touched in years, this man got a vote on what should be done with a garden project that the people voted for, I can provide address details if anyone wants to get a picture of his garden.
Dearie me George. You’re still obsessed with CGP. It’s done, dusted and buried my friend. Very noticeable that the proponents weren’t prepared to compromise and just cover the road and railway, thereby providing all that additional green space which was so vaunted. Could it be that darker forces were present, perhaps proposing a 5 star hotel or additional shopping mall in the fullness of time? Be an ideal use for a crumbling concrete edifice don’t you think, and highly profitable to no doubt.
Union Terrace Gardens could be brought back up to it’s previous, well liked, standard by the injection of, perhaps £15m, not £140/£240 that could have been the final cost of the dubious CGP. No dodgy funding packages needed either.
In regard to pedestrianisation: Regretably, it’s a non starter in Aberdeen as there’s simply no alternative route for the high volumes of traffic that would be displaced from Union Street.
Could the reason for so many vacant properties on Union Street be businesses locating to Union Square and the various other malls in the immediate vicinity of The Granite Mile?
Would you rather the same half dozen people patted your back every week (no doubt people you know) or would you rather you got some feedback from your average man in the street, my opinion on most things is shared by work mates and friends.
I’ll easily leave you in your brewdog socialist bubble if that’s what you’d prefer.
I know you have scant regard for the majority of people living in the City, your way or the highway, I like to think I’m better than that and listen to all so will stop posting my opinion if you want, it is your paper at the end of the day.
PS You not interested in the garden shambles story, the pictures would be great, it really is the worst garden in Aberdeen, I never even knew weeds could grow so high, granted he’s on your side of the fence but as a journo i’d have thought the story would be bigger than your own agenda.
hello George, Thanks for your story idea; you are welcome to write about it; although taking photos of someone’s private property might not be appropriate. I appreciate the insight as to your priorities.
I’m trying to encourage people to leave at least one corner of their gardens unmanicured to encourage/help wildlife. Not really up to me how people wish to keep their gardens. If you truly believe it is newsowrthy, I’ll put it on the list. I currently have half a dozen live FOI requests to pursue, am dealing with the Standards Commission, the Information Commissioner, Police Complaints, City and Shire councils on 10 different issues such as ATOS assessments, Trump’s locked gates, police perhaps straying from due process, dodgy councillors, environmental damage and so on. I’ve happily been doing ad hoc research since early March for the BBC on request for the upcoming Panorama programme, and am pleased to have been one of the people who helped feed info on request to the BBC team (out Monday at 8.30 – hope everyone watches). i’ve got a full-time job, cats, an arts practice, and I write this little opinion column when time permits. So in the scheme of things, I’ll either get to the scandal of the unkempt councillor’s garden after dealing with these few minor little issues, or leave it to you. You’re probably the more prolific writer of the two of us anyway.
You have no problem with taking pictures of Mr Trumps private property!
I’d have thought that a councillors garden would have been well within your remit, it is a council property as well. And if you have time to harass Camra and talk them down for the sake of a few quid then I’m sure you’d have time to cover the story.
Some of the obstacles in Trump Internationals way are the folk who actually live on Menie Estate and who appear to have been treated in a disturbingly cavalier way by both the Trump man and the local council.
Yep George, We would welcome anyone from the Trump Organisation or Aberdeenshire Council who were prepared to tell the truth regarding the whole sorry affair.Also somebody’s telling porkies about the windfarm saga
Either Trump or Alex Salmond. Tell you the truth I wouldn’t trust either.
It is a horrific disease, I watched my uncle die slowly of this. His mind intact locked in a body he had no say over his personal dignity stripped away.
I am certainly not surprised by the actions of police they let drug dealers do what the hell they want as long as they keep giving them names even the ones with asbos and Dod is most certainly going to get stopped every chance they get just aswell Fred was with him or it would have been a different outcome does this mean Dod has to have someone with him at all times when he steps out his door I think so if he hasn’t a witness they will do and say whatever the hell they like is there no end to police corruption sadly I think not xx
George.
Democracy? That went out the window the day Aberdeenshire Council sacked Martin Ford. Mr Ford followed the normal procedure as chairman of the Infrastructure Committee in that he voted for the status quo when the vote was tied at 7-7. The man was doing his job correctly according to the rules yet he was sacked.
Where’s the democracy in that.? Maybe of course the council was swayed by the very ” undemocratic” headline of “You Traitors” which appeared in the “Evening Express” which was followed by the equally undemocratic act by its sister paper the “Press and Journal” of refusing to publish any material from the “Tripping Up Trump” organisation.
What about that Moray Cup label, Duncan? Brewed in Macduff (Banffshire, NOT Aberdeenshire) at what was the Sangs factory and beloved of dentists throughout the land for its caries-causing tooth-corroding sweetness, yet its label belies the fact. No weatherbeaten King Edward fairmer, no craggy Moray Firth trawlerman. Why?
Just to note – the picture of the open gate between Leyton Farm Road and the parking lot is something of a rarity; I’ve not seen it opened since Leyton Farm Road was resurfaced with large gravel. Susan Munro had to exit via the parking lot before then – as Leyton Farm Road was impassible
“We will investigate the complaint in line with our usual procedures and will respond as appropriate”
Oh well that means the council will absolve themselves of any resposibility over this and do buggar all.
For your information, the golf club where I am a member has a coastal path running alongside its borders and because of the terrain walkers sometimes have to walk within the confines of the course. This very rarely causes a problem and both golfers and walkers exist side by side.I should point out we are a privately run club not council owned.
Back in April I complained to the Outdoor Access Officer that the the 5 public footpaths that were
part of the Trump Golf Course plan did not seem to have been built. The following is the reply I received.
“Dear Mr Downie,
I have made enquiries with our planning department in order to establish
what was required regarding public footpaths as part of the golf course
development. I have visited the site several times over the past year
regarding concerns over the public being able to exercise their access
rights. My last visit, undertaken on 21/03/2013, found no restrictions
which prevented members of the public exercising their access rights across
the golf course.”
Thanks for bringing up the subject of the footpaths that apparently were meant to be part of the plan. As to the reply you received – they should know how disingenuous it is to say that they didn’t find ‘restrictions which prevented members of the public exercising their access rights across the golf course.’ – they must know that gates in the area are permanently chained shut – ‘ access rights across the golf course’ is only a small part of the story.
Tut tut Suzanne. You can’t expect Trumpshire Council – sorry, “Aberdeenshire” Council, to go against their leading investor can you? The whole thing sounds like a load of balls to me. Or am I just being cynical?
Oh, me! More sycophantic “reportage” from Brew Dog’s biggest fan(nay!) I agree that here is a small, successful, local firm but do we really need Ms Kelly to trumpet their every success in laborious detail?
“Can world domination be far off” she asks, with no hint of irony and no apparent knowledge of cliche. And, once past the age of nine, it might be best to refrain from starting a sentence with the phrase “Seeing as how…”? Apart from that, though, all good, innovative journalism. Cheers!
How lovely for Angela Joss, the new Aberdeen Inspired Street Ambassador [what that? Ed] to take time out from her busy role supporting businesses to comment constructively on my little article. Thank you Angela.
I clearly missed the public advertisement for the Street Ambassador role which must have been in the help wanted sections, but undoubtedly the friendliest, warmest, most business-savvy candidate got this meaty role (and she says I don’t get irony).
Angela’s criticism of my humble prose is obviously completely independent of my past satirical attacks on some of the directors of Inspired she now serves (including John Michie and the ubiquitous Bob Collier). Voice readers will of course know the many roles these gentlemen take in our city, and would have loved the chance to work under them. Angela brings years of retail experience to her role, I have no doubt.
Perhaps when time permits, Angela will turn her gentle instructive nature and proofreading skills to the Aberdeen Inspired web page, which contains this beautiful Conradesque paragraph:
“The role of Street Ambassador will be a public face of Aberdeen Inspired, being a visible precense liasing with visitors and levy payers. Acting as the eyes and ears of the Board of Directors, Angela will also be the first point of contact on a one-to one basis with businesses in the city, acting in a customer service role .”
Good luck with the proofreading, and being the eyes and ears of Bob Collier and Co. I know you are the person best equipped morally and linguistically for the task. I’m sure you will make your ‘precense’ felt.
Tally Ho!
Suzanne
I look forward to Angela’s reply, which I have no doubt will instruct and entertain us all further when it arrives. But now it’s time to go watch Panorama.
Oh, Ms Kelly, are you seriously suggesting that I’m critical of yet another Brew Dog article because you’ve, at some point, apparently been critical of two men on the Board of a company that I work for? Well, let’s set THAT one straight – I commented as I did because you have a tendency to be sycophantic and demonstrate a lack of balance in both your subject matter and your approach to your “work”. And, for a “writer”, you’ve a sometimes tenuous grasp of the editing process. End of.
Can’t decide if I find your research into my part time job flattering or creepy. It’s my first job since I had my children, I’m enjoying it immensely, and giving it my very best. Of course, I understand your implication that it’s not a “proper” career for a “real” woman like you, but I will take on board what a sell out I am, in your (jaundiced) eyes. However, there is some dignity in labour, I believe in the principle aims of the organization I work for, and I’m really proud that the money I earn pays for my lovely children to take acting, dancing and music lessons, as well as providing other, extra treats for the whole family. It’s hard for me to feel any kind of embarassment about that.
Finally, I’m able to keep my social/private life and my employment separate. Perhaps you ought to try it, Ms Kelly.
( * Last sentence removed due to it’s blatant defamatory nature/content. Free speech is wonderful …. until it becomes something someone may have to pay dear for 🙂 – Moderator )
I knew you would find more useful comments to add; thank you ever so much. The research I did on your appointment came from it being announced on the Inspired website, on Facebook, and comments you yourself made. I can see straight away you will be a great ambassador for the business community. I can only hope to one day attain the historic balance you show. All the best
Pigsty George? I could swear I heard doanald junior say there was no sign of any livestock on the programme tonight. Are you calling trump jnr a liar? 🙂
Oh, and as for us ( or whoever you refer to as ‘you’ ) having had our say, you might be interested to know that it was actually the BBC who put the programme out, not Aberdeen Voice…. thought I should just point that out.
Give me a shout if you’re struggling to find an address to write to in order to direct your comments to those responsible for the documentary. I’m sure we’ll be able to help.
Comedy gold eh?…I wonder if you were in Michael Forbes’ position would you find it so amusing?Somehow i think no,mair likely you would be greetin like a bairn ower it.
He’s an attention seeker who lives in a run down dump, he has nothing to moan about, no one has done him any harm and he’s not been evicted.
How about you stop worrying about him and worry about the families in Tillydrone who will soon be forced out of their homes? that’s way more deserving than a man who doesn’t maintain his property.
And any launch of the boat he has would be comedy gold, it has more holes in it than an old Susannah article.
Michael Forbes an the other guid folk of the Meanie estate didnae court publicity,it was forced on them by trumps devious dealins.Did you watch the same panorama prog as i did?
If so how can you or anyone else claim that trump is anythin mair than a stupid yank wi’ an attitude problem?
Well said Angela, the sycophantic drooling over Brewdog is nauseating. The in place of the moment for students and left wing activists to hang out trying to act cool, I give it a couple years before the latest new place to hang out opens.
I sympathise with the likes of you who are working hard for the business community, you know the people who provide employment for a good percentage of the population, how dare they give the people of Aberdeen employment to feed their families.
In return as I have you get these people digging into your private life if you raise a questioning voice.
And Suzanne asking for balance, hahahahahahaha, pot kettle dear!!!!
The “independent” writers of the AV have previously stated they helped the program makers in their research, no doubt it was balanced points from both sides of the fence, I know myself my friends and workmates support Mr Trump and the new golf course, even though few of us play golf. We can see the bigger picture. I trust those who helped the BBC did point out the support as well as the negatives?
An email address would be nice yeah, I thought the program was crap and object to funding such biased nonsense.
And don’t forget that boat launch email, that would be so funny to watch. The rotten carcass wouldn’t make it off the trailer in one piece.
I’m unclear as to whether you think it is right for access to be restricted as illustrated, or you behind efforts to uphold in a reasonable way the rights to access under the Code?
No matter what Mr Trump does people will still moan, as I previously said Mr Forbes will not be launching that boat anytime soon, for all we know he might appreciate the extra security the gate provides. I have gates on my property, I suppose given the laws of the land people still have the right to wander through my property but the gates are there to discourage them.
When it comes to wilfully misunderstanding what has gone before, Mr Smith knows no equal. ‘Extra security the gate provides?’ having a permanently locked gate blocking a historic access is no security. I love Smith’s take – ‘gates are there to discourage them’ – from exercising a legal right. Well done yet again George; you do bring a (thankfully) unique perspective to any debate you engage in.
How many other golf courses in Scotland have such security measures taken.I’m thinkin ther night time patrols by ex bouncers an criminals are so don donny an his kin can sleep easy.
The course has been vandalised before and Mr Trump is under constant harassment from socialist activists upset that a rich man is in the area, that explains the security.
I’m pretty bewildered why people want access across a golf course anyway, the beach is still open and freely available, it just seems another stick to beat the Trump family with.
If golf course rambling is your thing then please also use all the other numerous courses in the area!
For the record George, any help offered to the BBC was at their request, presumably triggered by elevated levels of activity re. Menie including a series of Aberdeen Voice articles by 3 different writers, a petition signed by 18,000+, and activities of Trump international itself.
I am assured that information and assistance offered to the BBC by Aberdeen Voice did not deviate from the content of our articles which, in any case, were already in the public domain.
Dear George, I am getting quite concerned for your blood pressure, but am delighted to see you in one of your prolific (if less than logical) periods once more.
Please do explain how the independence of AV is compromised if the BBC contacts us to seek further details of our articles. I was asked to assist (not least because I’ve been lobbying government and wrote a detailed, referenced report circulated to the media and government); I gladly helped, and would do so for other nationals interested in looking at the situation at Menie, or other issues I’ve covered.
You’ll find a little hint as to the Beeb researching ‘both sides of the fence’ in the interview they had with Trump himself, which he cut short when the spectre of his Ft Lauderdale licensing deal, and possible mafia connection arose. By all means complain to the BBC about this ‘crap’ programme; include details of whatever you found inaccurate, and by all means share it with us too. I’m sure you will be able to find a means to contact them, given your astute analytical skills, but try http://www.bbc.co.uk as a starting point if you get stuck.
Good for you and your friends and workmates for supporting ‘Mr Trump’ despite all the evidence of laws bent, environmental protection disregarded, government and police irregularities and peoples’ lives made difficult. You must be an empathetic group indeed.
As to Michael Forbes’ boat – it is not that long ago that it was used; it is captured in You’ve Been Trumped at sea. After it was damaged when his property accessed in a scene captured in YBT, and after his access to the sea was cut off by the Trump organization with the police’s blessing, despite the Outdoor Access Code, it is hardly surprising that it might not be seaworthy now. You would find this funny, wouldn’t you?
Everyone is entitled to informed opinion, but George you’ve clearly not done any research to speak of; you never offer any quantifiable data, no first hand testimony, no facts enter into your little diatribes. I’ve done the homework; the BBC did its homework over the course of 5 months. Why not take up the Voice’s long-standing offer and send us an article supporting your point of view, with references and evidence? We’re waiting.
PS – there is a great deal of psychological writing on the neurotic need of some people to seek affirmation and acceptance of the rich and powerful by any means they can. This is to make up for their own insecurities and/or to try and gain some power through such recognition for themselves. Know anyone like that?
Billionaire or street sweeper, I treat people the same, you attack all rich people, jealousy, envy, I’m not sure, strange socialist mindset to have imo.
George,
Dont know if you buy the P&J but
ex employees and retired employees are extremely embarrassed at the subtle and not so subtle bias of the paper’s reporting of the Trump
fiasco. Are you also accusing leading economists at the LSE,an ex president of the Royal Town Planning Institute, a leading figure on outdoor pursuits, and various conservation bodies of being biased in their views about Trump. THEY CAN’T ALL BE WRONG!!!
Just before cutting short his Panorama interview, Donald Trump said, “Maybe you’re thick but when you have a signed contract, you can’t in this country just break it . . .” Well, that may help explain the question put recently to David Milne and Councillor Paul Johnston by Maureen Watt MSP before the Public Petitions Committee of Parliament, when she said “What are we talking about?”.
Mr. Trump possibly prefers to conduct his business in Scotland because, where our planning laws are concerned, he can pretty much do what he likes. From the Government to Aberdeenshire Council. It is easy to see why some politicians do not want a public inquiry.
DEVELOPMENT – indications are now that the police are working with George Copland to arrange compensation for the destruction of property. I am happy to hear that discussions are taking place, and I welcome the police working to compensate in this case.
Ikea is cheap and the stuff they sell looks good. I agree local shops need supporting but that shouldn’t be to the detriment of the consumer, I want choice and am not in a position where I could afford to kit out a house using the stores you mentioned. I’ve been to Ikea in Edinburgh more than once, having one up here would save the likes of me with a limited budget the journey.
Primark is also cheap and on the racks their stuff looks good. Problem is like IKEA their product has a relatively short “wearing” life. There is much truth in the saying”Buy cheap buy dear”
Great article I enjoyed reading this very much, I get my groceries delivered and I’ve just added a dozen bottles of Brewdog beer into the online shopping basket.
George: I’d be delighted to know all the people in Tillydrone who are to be evicted when the new bridge is built. Please enlighten us.
Strange how Aberdeenshire Council are putting out enforcements notices in Westhill in regard to works which do not comply with permissions granted, but didn’t in regard to Mr Trump’s organisations deviations from plan. It just goes to show that they can enforce the law when it suits them.
The Panorama programme showed up Trump for what he is – an egotistical bully. No one loves a bully, except our George it seems.
George,
I have heard it all now. You must have a crystal ball if you can categorically state those who have allegedly harrassed Trump are SOCIALIST activists. As usual George you are long on vitriol but short on actual facts. The right of access gives people the right to walk across ANY golf course if they so wish
providing they do not interfere with the golfers while they are in the act of playing a shot. Many people may not feel the need to walk across a golf course but in the case of Mr Trump’s course they are actively being discouraged from doing so .Mr Trump or his employees ,despite his obvious influence, have no right to stop people providing they adhere to the right of access code.Why should his course be different from any other in the land.
George.
You can walk across any golf course to get from A to B Many people do including football supporters who REGULARLY walk across the golf course at Aberdeen Links to get to Pittodrie from the beach area where they have parked their cars.
Please George furnish me with PROOF it was anti Trump folk who vandalised his machinery.No one was charged so how the hell can you say who was responsible.
You’ll be pleased to know that Derek Ibbotson is till going strong, albeit on new hips. He held the world mile record for a short while too. He didn’t have a privileged background like the Bannisters, Chataways etc, and learned his craft up and down the steep Pennine valleys around Huddersfield. Lovely chap too.
Complaints have been made dating back YEARS and some of these are documented on my blog. Specifically in 2009 when I, as local councillor, following complaints to me, documents photographically 5 sites of locked gates. These were opened by order of the access officer. Locked again. Opened again.
There is nothing to investigate, Aberdeenshire Council. Just look in your back files and update the old complaints and insist that Trump obeys the law.
As a serial offender, well documented as such, there is no case for leniency
The Trump organisation has failed to cite specific instances of vandalism at Menie, save one incident of damage to construction machines, rumoured locally to be from a disgruntled employee (he’s good at producing those). THE act of vandalism of course is the destruction of a SSSI – but I also witnessed the damaged to Mike Forbes fishing gear when Trump shoved this kit off land they claimed to own.
if you want more info on the actual police statistics on vandalism, my recent FOI will enlighten you further; details coming soon to Aberdeen Voice – Suzanne
Suzanne quine,
A dinna think it wis Salmond faa Trump ca’ed a “porker” Wis it nae Michael Forbes and he retaliated bi sayin nae bad cumin fae a clown or a’m I getting ma pigs and clowns aa mixed up?
I remember very clearly Donald Trump blaming the recession for not building the hotel and houses, this was stated in several publications about three years ago. Now he’s making a song and dance out of the wind-turbines off Aberdeen Bay, and blaming this for not building the hotel and houses. If he’s so concerned about wind-farms in Scotland why has he NEVER EVER objected previously, as there has been dozens upon dozens of opportunities to do so.
Can’t help but agree with you Sean. I have never been able to work out why, when playing a round of golf, the participants would be taking their eye off the ball. Isn’t that the object of the whole silly exercise in futility?
I think you will find that a police officer (I used to be one), keeps every bit of information in their notebooks. The new electronic note books would allow an officer to recall information such as time allocated to a job quite easily.
This information would already be held on their notebooks, and therefore would NOT be the creation of new information, it would only need to be collected and a monetary amount given for officers time.
a good point, and one I look forward to the police explaining when they cover how they have no idea how much time / costs accrue to visits that go ahead. Payroll departments usually store information as to overtime, special jobs, etc. It should not be rocket science to match planned/actual/cancelled Trump visit dates to police costs. I look forward to seeing what they write next.
That’s strange. Grampian Police informed me that they were unable to calculate police costs for policing the construction of the Menie estate as they weren’t, or chose not to be, able calculate police time spent on different activities! Graham indicates this might be otherwise.
Here is more of what the police wrote when explaining how they could calculate the cost of the cancelled visit, but could not calculate other costs:- “Although costs were calculated in regard to the cancelled trip, this was done at the time of the cancellation and involved a member of staff speaking to individual officers to find out what their shift changes were and what overtime or re-rostered rest days they were entitled to, in order to come up with an estimated figure. We also had to ask those involved in planning how long they spent on these tasks – such detail would not be routinely recorded and was provided based on the officer/member of staff’s recollection. Clearly this was easily done due to the fact that task was recent. If we were to approach officers and staff now to recall how long they spent on a piece of work 2 or three years ago, it is unlikely they would accurately recall. Furthermore, this would amount to the creation of new information and there is no obligation on authorities to create new information to answer a FOI request. Only recorded information held by an authority should be provided in response to a FOI request.”
You will not be surprised to know I’ve challenged this. Either you have tools to track how your manpower is spent, or you do not. If the police do not track how their manpower is spent, then I’d strongly suggest the police get in step with most other industries, where time-writing is standard. I also refer to the post above re. police notebooks; correlating dates of visits with overtime, etc. should be possible from records kept. We’ll see what they say next
I wonder if Mr Trump was to be/was on previous visits afforded the luxury of a police escort (covert or otherwise) during his periodic visits to The North East? Are his own security staff armed, which would be illegal? Granted he is a very wealthy, if pompous, individual, but he should not be given the benefit of thinly stretched police resources to enlarge his over inflated ego. Grampian, now Scotland’s Police, have been burdened with security costs for decades in regard to certain regal dignitaries; to add Trump’s “State Visits” to that is ridiculous.
Like you Suzanne, I noted the large number of people in UTG on Friday basking in the sun drenched, sheltered environment – a working day at that! The addicts and alcoholics that are a constant presence (according to our mutual friend George) must have been in absolute terror in to their favoured domain.
I watched the Panorama programme with interest. It, most certainly, didn’t show the illustrious Trump in a very good light. Thank heavens for our unbiased BBC and it’s excellent reporting/investigative staff. Given their conclusions, it’s pretty obvious you and your colleagues put forward a truthful and accurate view of matters Trump, for which we should all be grateful. It does, however, bring the coverage of our local newspapers in to disrepute regrettably and that is sad.
Your last two paragraphs sum things up beautifully.
The prize of independence would be a government elected by the people of Scotland, accountable to them at the ballot box. That is something we have never had, and can never achieve, under Westminster rule given we form only around 9% of the UK population base. Never again could divisive and vindictive Conservative Party policies be inflicted on us against our will.
Starting from a clean sheet would give us the ability to form policies which are appropriate to Scotland, not those merely fueling the overheating of the South East of England’s economy at our expense. Our future could be bright, but we, the electorate, have to participate and not simply sit on the sidelines carping and allowing politicians carte blanche.
As an electorate we need to be informed, accurately and factually, by both sides of the argument. The persistent scare mongering of the “No” lobby must stop. We are not as gullible as they think and even those of us with lesser amounts of grey matter can see through those laughable assertions.
I agree with both Steve Boyle and Ron Campbell. We really have to shake off this everlasting “slave mentality”! Rational discussion is required on both sides and not just get swept away in blind panic by scare stories initiated by the ‘no’ lobby.
Hello George. Of course, the most important thing about anyone exercising their democratic rights such as launching FOI requests is the cost, or so it seems as far as you are concerned. Did you know that by law government organisations have for many years been required to answer FOI requests and have dedicated staff doing so?
As to leaving the man and his family in peace, do you think that the Milne, Forbes and Munro families deserve peace? Precisely what problems have the Trumps encountered that required a police escort? Are you saying you are happy to spend thousands of taxpayer pounds on policing for a man with his own security team when driving from the airport to Menie? I do think you’ve outdone yourself this time Mr Smith
The casualty rate is shocking. The point about the investment in the A9 on safety grounds is the crux of the whole issue. Whilst I am a car owner, I use it as sparingly as possible. It’s become a dangerous lottery. Even drivers in the slower traffic in the city seem to be taking more and more dangerous chances with disregard for speed limits, red and amber signals and dangerous parking.
I cycle and walk as often as I can and generally have no problems, but if we are to ease congestion and pollution and tackle the obesity and fitness problem, we must invest in infrastructure to SEPARATE cyclists from motorists. The perceived risks on two wheels are a reason always given by would-be cyclusts fir their reluctance to use two wheels rather than four.
The situation of Aberdeen’s sole ghost bike is a joke. Hidden away on the riverside it might as well be in the middle of Rubislaw Quarry. The accident happened at the roundabout not a hundred yards away to satisfy some officious plonker worried about distracting motorists. One of the main objectives of ghost bikes is to increase awareness of accident black-spots.
We also need ghost bikes at the Haudagain and Kings Gate/Anderson Drive roundabouts!
Ewen. If you look above there is a link to last year’s article about the ghost bike at Riverside. There’s a link to BeCycle, the volunteer cycling organisation in High St, Old Aberdeen, who made the commemoration. There’s a link to BeCycle in the article, as I recall. You’ll be able to make the suggestion directly to BeCycle via that link. Stay safe. David.
A good mix this week Suzanne. It appears you can get awards for all kinds of nonsense. Perhaps the “City of Culture” one falls in to this bracket also. Strange how to umbridge at the Brewdog website offering, while totally disregarding the blatantly dubious offerings of the CGP lot. Perhaps money talks after all. Talking of money, I wonder when the illustrious Trump will complete his hundreds of over priced homes and luxury hotel? He desperately needs to get a return for his investors, so, wind farm or no wind farm, it’s only a matter of time.
Is he really desperate for a return for his investors? how do you know this?
That is way more defamatory than anything I wrote about tree hugging Ford, seems friends of the editors here can write what they want whilst other get relevant posts chopped.
While any loss of life on our roads is tragic, the actions of a section of the cycling fraternity do their cause no favours – the pavement riding, red light ignoring group. The sad fact is that patience – said to be a virtue – is sadly lacking in many road users, cyclists included. Yes, cycling should be actively promoted as a means of better health (if you exclude the traffic fumes in our cities) but, a marked increase in police presence is required to control the excesses/stupidity of many road users. Some cities have cameras installed on traffic lights to catch, and bring to book, offenders. Perhaps this is a way forward in The Granite City. It would certainly give ACC a significant income which could be used to improve the plight of cyclists and pedestrians alike.
[In my opinion] Martin Ford sums up all that is wrong with our City Council, “Defamatory portion of post removed – will be reinstated if poster can provide evidence in support of claim, or repost comment worded in a way which clearly indicates what is opinion and what is stated as factual – Moderator”
I hear what you are saying George but in the interest of rounding off the notion of windmills having been around in Scotland for quite a long time I thought it useful to include the reference. After all it makes readers react.
That’s just part of it min. Big Jimmy’s the boy, Donald’s oatcakes are the only proper mannies’ stovie accompaniment and God got it right when he diverted the Deveron to keep as apart fae the Aiberdeenshire heathens and the Avon and Spey to differentiate us fae the tartanista.
Great article. Everyone needs to remember that this vote is not about whether we keep the pound, join the euro, remain in the EU, have our own armed forces, etc. This vote is only about the right to decide all those things for ourselves.
Just a few hundred years ago there was a thing called The British Empire. The US, Canada, Australia, and India were all part of it (to name just a few locations). Does anyone in those countries feel that we’d be “better together”? I’d challenge anyone to name a single independent state that would vote to relinquish it’s independence given the option to do so? How can anyone believe that Scotland would somehow set a precedence here, and be the first country to regret gaining independence, let alone independence from the UK.
People fought and died for their freedom, all we have to do is tick the box marked “YES”. It really is a no brainer.
I should have mentioned that I’m well aware of Mr Fords political background and where he now sits and know he didn’t sit directly on the city council but [I believe] he still went out of his way to involve himself with City matters. “Defamatory portion of post removed – will be reinstated if poster can provide evidence in support of claim, or repost comment worded in a way which clearly indicates what is opinion and what is stated as factual – Moderator”
There’s your evidence, I look forward to my posts being reinstated.
I also look forward to Ron backing up his claim that Mr Trump desperately needs to get a return for investors.
[ George, having examined your ‘evidence’ we can fully accept that these might provide ample basis for your OPINION of Cllr. Ford, but no-one at Aberdeen Voice can see how any part of either of these articles justifies or supports the terms you have used to describe Mr Ford’s actions or position as related to in your post, therefore we are not prepared to accept liability for those comments as they stand.
We feel we must point out three things, which will hopefully help you make better use of the comments facility than you have been able to of late.
1. Your knowledge and opinion of Cllr. Ford or any other person or organisation is not an issue, and is of no concern to us. We have demonstrated often enough that where we find evidence of wrongdoing by any councillor or public figure, we have no fear of exposing said wrongdoing publicly regardless of the wrongdoer’s political leanings and/or influence.
2. Moderation has less to do with protecting the person or organisation being commented on ( in this case Martin Ford ), but more to do with protecting the poster ( in this case you ), and more importantly, the publisher ( in this case Aberdeen Voice ) from legal challenge.
3. Since the introduction of comments boxes were intended to give the public a say on our articles, and stimulate lively and informative debate, it makes no sense to edit ( or, as you put it, censor ) your opinion out of the potential debate without good reason. Your opinion will almost certainly provoke response, and this is good for Aberdeen Voice.
The issue remains that the wording of your post presents OPINION as a STATEMENT OF FACT, which, by it’s potential to damage a named person’s reputation by way of specific, direct, unsubstantiated accusations represents defamatory material.
I suggest you read the original advice again George ie. the part which suggests you “repost comment worded in a way which clearly indicates what is opinion and what is stated as factual”.
You will find words such as ‘in my opinion’,’I believe’, I think’, It appears to me’, ‘It is as if’,’I Suggest’, ‘Isn’t it the case?’, etc which indentifies what is your opinion and/or makes any charge/accusation less direct, used appropriately, will usually be all that is required for all the points you wish to put across to be approved with little or no amendment.
Hello George. Thank you for the suggestion. You’ve now sent in some half dozen posts today, and I am not at all comfortable with the tone and content of them. AV will get back to you when it can on the status of your posts when the rest of theh team have had time to consider them.
Just a reminder – while a column (such as Old Susannah) may be political satire, comments are a different thing. You can state your opinion; you can make constructive criticism, but stating opinion as fact, and abusive posts are not welcome here.
Why not write your own article or political satire George? This offer was made to you ages ago, and it still stands.
Finally, Aberdeen Voice is well within its rights to not publish any post or comment which may be defamatory, harrassement, or offensive in nature. We are also free to disagree with your expertise as to what is or is not libel.
Talking of defamation George:
You should have been in Union Terrace Gardens today (Saturday). Loads enjoying themselves in the sun with entertainment laid on. Perhaps you’re due an apology to all those addicts and drunks you defamed so frequently? Not one in sight again.
This morning we had the service of one of the children killed while out on his bike on a rural road right at the start of the school holidays. Please everyone take extra care.
My kids refer to the mannie Stott in Bucksburn as my dealer, since I make regular excursions into the mean streets of the Boxy ‘hood to feed my addiction. He drives from Culsalmond to Boxy to run the shop, but at least once a week goes to Portsoy to pick up the baked oatmeal Ambrosia.
His shop is on the left about a hunner n fifty yards before the A947. Right opposite Chalmers Bakery.
Nom nom nom nom nom.
They’re nae cheap, but stovies or tattie soup are enhanced immeasurably by The Prince of Breid.
I share your disapproval of pavement cyclists, cyclists who jump red lights, cyclists who wear no hi-viz or display lights during dark hours. I obey the law and take every precaution I can to make myself visible when biking in the dark.
In my experience, these are in the minority and when I have occasionaly asked pavement cyclists why they do it, the usual response is that they don’t feel safe on the road. If we are to stop such behaviour, proper, serious infrastructure has to be provided. There is no alternative to this if we are to stop the appalling casualty rate. I admit, however, there will always be irresponsible people on bikes, jyst as there will always be irresponsible vehicle drivers.
Dearie me George. Do you actually think it’s Trump’s personal funds that are paying for Menie?? Apparently the man’s gone bankrupt in the past and pulled out of the Presidential race the moment he had to declare his financial situation.
It would be very, very interesting to know which individuals or companies had provided funding to Trump for the Menie project, but I strongly suspect he did this one out of his own funds. The reason I think that is because he is going to make such a massive mind boggling profit when he sells the land, which I doubt he will want to share with anyone else.
I could be wrong of course, as it’s very difficult to imagine what goes on in the mind of someone who has (proven) connections to the Mafia.
[slight precautionary amendment to post to observe legal boundaries – Moderator]
It’s a great pity this eagerness to expose wrongdoing does not extend to the actions of AV’s own editorial team, at least some of whom could now be described, with a stretch of the imagination, as public figures. I refer, in this instance, to the speed with which a post containing a question – a question to which the answer might well have been considered damaging and/or embarrassing to Aberdeen Voice – was removed from the AV Facebook page recently. The alacrity with which the AV page admin acted (on being asked the question) might not only have been seen as embarrassing enough in itself, but might surely cause the casual observer to regard your lengthy statement to George Smith above with more than a healthy pinch of scepticism. I refer in particular to the passage containing the claim that “we have no fear of exposing… wrongdoing publicly regardless of the wrongdoer’s political leanings and/or influence.” If that is the case, then perhaps AV would care to make a public statement on the matter to which I refer, a statement already requested by a member of the public on that page? Or is this just a case of there being one rule for your targets, and quite another for your staff?
I assume this question is directed at myself Pete, as I am admin of the FB page. I did not reply because I did not know the answer to your question. I know now that the answer is ‘no’. No phone call took place, and no wrongdoing either. Dialogue is still open between myself and the aggrieved party, and I consider this the only healthy way to proceed.
Have a nice day.
For those of you who don’t know what ‘minger’ is on about this time, some false accusations were posted on the Aberdeen Voice Facebook page by Pete Thomson ( He’d already been suspended temporarily once by Facebook for a previous libellous comment directed at me). Minger seems keen these get mentioned on my column; and I’m glad of his insistence as it gives me an opportunity to set the record straight. Here goes.
I was accused on FB by Thomson of making a phonecall and complaining about someone, allegedly because they were critical about my writing. You might not know me personally, but I don’t work like that. For the record, no phonecall, no complaint ever happened. It appears to me as fabrication on Thomson’s part. And I happen to think a rather malicious one at that.
If it matters, I sent a very short, polite email which asked for info. which might or might not be the basis for this accusation against me. I’d tell you more but I don’t want to risk identifying the person Pete apparently feels was the subject of my email request (my email asked about finances, how appointments including a new job were made, whether public funds were used and so on). I can tell you that someone came to me with info they quite rightly wanted investigated, and I sent a wholly polite email of about 4 sentences with no hint of a complaint in it. I send out dozens of such emails looking for info a week; hope this doesn’t shock anyone.
Thomson wrote in his initial FB post an account of an event that never happened which ended (I have screenshots of course) that “this [phonecall] actually took place.” By the end of the thread however, which was libellous to me and therefore removed, Thomson was instead demanding Fred confirm whether or not such a phonecall happened,. How Fred was supposed to have info on an invented accusation is another matter. (NB I don’t get to see any of Pete’s comments on FB as I blocked him long ago for what I and others saw as repeated attacks on me).
Thomson so far refuses to apologise. I would like to say more about the ongoing criticism of me by Thomson, but can’t do so at present; I’m taking advice.
Voice Readers might want to ask themselves who Minger is and what his or her agenda is. I’m not the greatest writer on the block, but I’m one of a small group of people trying to get truth exposed when things go wrong with city, shire, police, etc. If someone’s trying to stop me doing so, what’s behind it? What is the ultimate goal?
Pete, Minger – you’ve seen I’m not going to stop writing. Thomson’s apology would still be appreciated for the phonecall/complaint comment. Failing that apology, then do send us all proof this phonecall and complaint happened. Since no call existed, there will be no record, no file note, no witness. Apology awaited.
For the sake of the readers, Minger/Pete – let’s get back to making comments that are relevant to the piece of writing in question, which do not amount to more boring attacks on me personally? Perhaps a new hobby would be beneficial for you as well. Not for anything, but Pete / Minger – other people have commented that you’re starting to look a little bit obsessed.
For the rest of you, thanks your comments, thanks for reading, and thanks for – well everything really. Maybe one day we will see the back of Pete/Minger; maybe not. But for those of you who keep reading, and because of those who give me reason to write, I’m going to keep carrying on. Cheers, Old Susannah aka Suzanne Kelly.
I’m a bit concerned about 200 peace lanterns being released, assuming they mean Chinese lanterns. There was a massive fire just recently at a recycling plant due to one of those. Hate to be a party pooper, but not a very responsible act, andit is essentially throwing 200 paper bags into the air. Weird!
Donna, just to put your mind at reest, the lanterns are not Chinese lanterns. As depicted on the front page, these are floating lanterns which are launched on the water rather than in the air.
A wonderful, knowledgeable, comprehensive and fair-minded report with excellent photographs, tinged with great sadness at the mindless and ignorant destruction which has gone before. Many congratulations on this very useful update on the present situation.
It might be worth investigating how well the conifers are doing in the enclosures above Ballgownie playing fields. Fine regeneration of natural meadow, but the saplings are few and far between and are being totally swamped by the grasses and as fine a crop of dandelions as I have ever seen.
All in all, I think we can agree that the project was a complete and utter waste of tax payers money. Nothing seems to have been learned from the St Fittick’s venture which could be best described as a failed attempt at reforestation, costing the public purse dear. I’m in total agreement that those who perpetrated this extravagant waste of public funds should be held to account. Regretably, award for failure have become the norm nowadays.
What I found most amazing from that day trip was that nature regardless, will still blossom, even in landfill. In some areas how anything grows at all is a wonder in itself.
Whoever was responsible for master minding the project had no environmental sense what so ever? We could take that further. Diversity what’s that. No thought has gone into how those (for a large part) shrivelled up examples will grow. A tree for every citizen, where? not on them thar hills.
For the record, Cllr Jean Morrison has mailed me her response today. I am still studying the contents, but thought it fair to acknowledge it here as soon as I could.
if it has to be rendered inoperable, wouldn’t it make more sense to salvage it and transfer it to somewhere like the music hall or beach ballroom? I’m sure that a good show of local support for such a plan could get the gears moving to find it a suitable home where it can be heard once again. Would the tivoli be an option?
Hi Michael. This is the mail address Charlie supplied in response to the previous Article about the Capitol. I have reason to believe though that it might not be active …. I await a response from Charlie myself … thinking of changing to co.uk and trying that out.
Suzanne excels herself here! A shaft of wit and insight, cutting through the pervading filth and mendacity. I particularly like her example of a circular argument!
Aye Duncan,
The Turra Show is aye worth a vist. Didna mak it up the The Haughs iss ear bit saw an equally gweed Vintage Tractor display an Fairmin Throwe the Ages at Echt Show
The Keith Show is almost upon us Bob, think it has a tractor parade as well plus some trained geese doing extreme stunts. I have been told that the saturday night fight between the lads of Buckie and the Keith loons is worth a look as well. Bit like the Orkney upies and doonies but without any semblance of rules! Must take a look at Echt next year. Hope the ear gets better real soon.
Such hatred over a spectacular golf course, all because a well known rich man built it.
Every development will always have objectors, this one no different, we’ve heard them all before, the poor families who suffered so much so it could be built, it’s now getting all so tedious. No one was evicted, no one lost their home, one objector to the beautiful course lives in a midden, an eyesore that scars the land, do we hear any objections and public inquiries as to how he chooses to live?
Get over it, a paltry 19,000 names is nothing, the course is here and will remain, no amount of foot stomping will change that.
I think the furore is more directed at rules bent or broken George, not a certain rich American. The law is meant to be equal for all and should be enforced impartially. Can you, in all sincerity, say that was the case in regard to Menie?
And you’re comment about a, “paltry 19,000 names,” is laughable. What about the “paltry” numbers who supported CGP?? The vast majority of citizens didn’t even vote!!!
If someone has a 3 bedroom property and a family is waiting for that type of house then it makes sense the single person downsizes, obviously if a house is available. A good scheme that will work as long as people are not penalised for having a property when no other is available.
As for the story about a family being asked to move from a 3 bedroom to another 3 bedroom I refuse to believe that.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least George in regard to the family being moved from a 3 bed to a 3 bed. Aberdeen City Council works in mysterious ways. I was regarded as being inadequately housed in a private room and kitchen many years ago. What was I offered? A room and kitchen! Nothing would surprise me about ACC. They simply make the rules up as they go along and deny any liability for any shortcomings on their part.
George. Did you in the article thow many 1 bedroom properies there are in Aberdeen? 86! Given the amount of tenants requesting to downsize, they could be paying Bedroom Tax for many years before local authorities can get round to building enough suitable accommodation.. COSLA statistics have already stated that this could be up to 25 years..
As for the woman with the autistic child, you seem surprised! It is in fact a true account. I know the woman and I can verify it as accurate.. If you come to UTG on the 24th August you can meet her yourself.
This tax has only one reason for existance, to stigmatise low waged and unemployed workers & make them scapegoats for far greater problems in the economy. They are being blamed for problems created by speculators & gamblers on the movement of stockmarkets. It was their greed that caused the slump, not a low-waged worker in B&Q, Sainsburys or the local shop. It is these people who claim Housing Benefit. And it is these people who struggle & juggle daily to find enough money to pay for clothes & food for their families. Dicretionary Housing Payment – (An extra amount recieved if a tenant is struggling to find Bedroom Tax payments) lat only six months, In some circumstances up to one year. There is no right of appeal, the government scrappet that on April 1st when the Bedroom Tax legislation becam law. If a tenant goe into arrears due to housing debt – they cannot transfer. It is vicious. People are getting into more & more debt & it will get worse. So if you can, lets stand up for our neighbours & friends who will be affected by this cruel legislation.. August 24th is a symbolic gesture. It is happening in 30 cities around the counry. Aberdeen is playing it’s part too. We don’t have much – but one thing we all have are voices. Let local & national politicians hear them.
Alex Salmond is correct, our Council is Kamikaze, they ignored the wishes of the people with the CGP and have done nothing to slow the decline of our City Centre. Turning down a £50 Million gift to improve our centre and making it a party political issue once the people had already spoken will never be forgotten.
Suzanne does well to get her Brewdog mention in but omits to mention the huge government grant they have just received, shame on you for putting your political interests before a story regarding your favourite company.
I have no political leanings but must say the difference between the SNP helping local business and the local council attempting to play at being politicians is in stark contrast, one comes out shining, the other a shambles.
You constantly neglect to mention that only about 20% of the populace voted in the dodgy referendum supporting CGP George. Hardly, “the wishes of the people”,is it??
There was a 52% turnout with 45,301 voting in favour of the project, that is in spite of the scaremongering from the no camp, that’s an incredible turnout for a vote on a garden.
George,
You’ve got it wrong AGAIN!! Hatred what hatred.? Anger yes but hatred come on!! Objections were NOT raised because he was building a golf course. Objections were raised because of WHERE he was building part of that golf course, and the unparalled actions of the Scottish Government in calling in the application before Mr Trump put in an appeal. A precedent has now been set and according to a golfing friend who is also a lawyer the Scottish Government may yet rue the day they took this action as no SSSI is now safe from predatory developers. George are you seriously suggesting a public inquiry or objections be raised because of how someone is perceived to live? Good heavens man there would be a public inquiry every day of the week if that was the case.The fact Trump is rich is irrelevant as I suspect you know full well. It is the unfailing attitude of Aberdeenshire Council,the local press and up till now the Scottish Government to bend over backwards towards this man when lesser mortals would have had their actions queried long ago.Rules are there for all to obey. Trumps refusal to take away the bunds from around Susan Munro’s and David Milne’s houses and his continual applications for retrospective planning permission have now at long last been queried by some in the Aberdeenshire Council. Not before time although I suspect he shall get away with it once again.Little wonder there are those who raise their voices in anger.
The fact remains the professional objectors wouldn’t have been interested had this been Joe Bloggs building the course, take a look at Tillydrone where people are losing homes and part of their gardens so a bridge can be built, no a murmur, you can be sure if it was Mr Trump building the bridge there would be an outcry.
Socialists pick their targets carefully, all this rubbish about a SSSI is a smokescreen to attack the rich man in my opinion, do you even know what was special about the site? I forget.
George, Where have you been in the past few years. Not in Aberdeen obviously or you would have read all the letters of protest about Tillydrone in the local papers. There also have been various meetings held in Tillydrone which anybody could attend and many did.
As for your description of the SSSI as a being a convenient smokescreen to attack Mr Trump I can only surmise you class Scottish Natural Heritage as being socialists as in their report in 2007 they laid out all the benefits of this unique sand sheet at Menie {their words, not mine} They classed the dunes at Menie links as being of great importance both nationally and internationally.George your belief that all this is to do with Mr Trump being rich is becoming a little obsessive. The protests from ordinary people like myself and my wife would have been equally vociferous had part of the golf course been built where it was by anybody, be they rich or famous or neither. Whist I have no doubt there are some professional objectors in the world the vast majority who oppose Trump DO NOT come into this category.
There are two holes within the boundary of the site of SSSi no building has been constructed on SSSI. The SNH rules are that they will work with the owners of the land they have designated a SSSI I cannot remember any objections by SNH to the building of the golf course and in fact in this very online publication in previous articles SNH were ridiculed for not protesting the development. In the report you refer to in your comments you will see that SNH have tried unsuccessfully to stabilize the dunes by using concrete blocks left over from WW11 and new blocks made from precast concrete pipe, surely the mixed vegetation used by Trump is more natural and sympathetic to the area than concrete, maybe this is why SNH never objected to the development because they seen it as realistic opportunity to preserve the dunes without the use of unnatural material at no cost to the public.
As for your comments on there would be a protest to the course no matter who was building it there was no protest to the building of the 9 hole extension to the Newburgh build on the Fovran links in 1996, whats changed since then only the developer and as George stated the rise of the professional objector.
Proof please that I, my wife and my friends,some of whom are regular golfers are “Professional objectors”. Planting marram grass does not “PRESERVE” the dunes merely stops them from shifting, which was their uniqueness in the first place. You don’t have to build a construction on an SSSI to destroy their uniqueness, merely interfere with the natural process is enough. George and Jim–We are never going to reach a compromise on this so this is my final post on this particular written article.
I honestly can’t fathom that one out, it would have been a big deal if he removed all the dunes but he didn’t.
A big fuss over nothing, he’s built a course that will enhance tourism in the area and provide employment, he’s also constructed a beautiful course that will protect the dunes long term, wouldn’t you and others time be better served protesting at the windfarm proposal? Now that’s something that is really going to do some real damage to our coastline and wildlife. As Mr Trump doesn’t want them it seem the usual objectors have went quiet on that issue, get the windmills and Mr Trump won’t be happy seems to be more important than the damage the things will do, do you really want those monstrosities scarring our coastline?
The SNH did object when the Reporters were reviewing the planning; however, the objection they put up would have appealed to the scientific community and not the layman/business person / government official. Its objection though has been noted in several publications.
Mike
A long time friend of mine is convinced that by the end of this century we the human race shall have destroyed our planet either through blowing each other to smithereens or by our greed in using up all the Earth’s resources.
Although I think it could be a more random date than the end of the century. Our systems to cope with 7 billion people are vulnerable to some natural disaster such as a mega-volcanic eruption, that everything could collapse fairly quickly. Not very cheery I know.
Kevin Stewart is now a lobby fodder on-message MSP, who always looked out of his depth as a cooncillor, heaven help us. The former leader who now heads up Manchester’s Pride is John Stewart, of the pro-CGP persuasion, but otherwise a seemingly able politician.
The whole Bramble Brae saga bemuses me. What was the class teacher and Headmistress/master doing when they were apparently invaded? DOesn’t say a lot for our super secure schools does it. Mind you, it could have been worse. It could have been Barney Off His Rocket and not the illustrious fish that forced entry. Now that would have been scary for the poor wee kids.
We should ask ourselves what brought this legislation about. Could it have been the private landlords in the South East & London ripping off the taxpayer by charging inflated rents(Aberdeen being a close second)? Would a more sensible solution not have been to put in place legislation curbing rent levels?
It’s all very well bleating about tenants being in larger properties than they need. Had The CONservatives not raced to sell off the housing stock in the first place and instead brought about a massive social house building programme instead, the problem would have been partially resolved. The fact is that council housing was, in the main, two bed flats. Those allocated them were assessed on need. If you need a roof over your head you can’t afford to be too choosey. The problem is that not nearly enough one bedded properties were built leading to single people being offered two bedroomed properties which they did not need or want. Hardly their fault. To penalise them is fundamentally and morally wrong.
Ordinary people are being hit because of The Tories obsession with market forces and monetarism. They brought about the problem but are making no effort whatsoever to resolve it instead trying to put one section of the populace against the other. Divide and rule – the oldest tactic in the book.
It is maybe a bit hard for those of us who are city dwellers to understand, but bracken is a native British fern commonly found in woodland and heath land. It is pretty much impossible to eradicate and is part of the Scottish countryside like it or not. A fire hazard? I think not. Poisonous to mammals? Perhaps but who amongst us would fry it up for breakfast?
As to the culling of deer, that is debateable on many grounds. Deer both eat and destroy saplings by rubbing off the velvet from their antlers. They also enhance woodland by creating clearings which allow colonisers such as birch and sycamore to establish. The usual response from land managers is to cull, build deer fences or enclose plantings in 1.2m tubes. Any or all are effective against Roe Deer but only fences and culling are proof against Red Deer.
Gorse and indeed Broom are certainly contentious. We love them and hate them in equal parts. The severe winters of 2010 and 2011 destroyed much of the Scottish Gorse and Broom stock but again that is part of the natural cycle and has allowed the colonising Birch and Sycamore to seed and flourish in the landscape.
Tullos Hill is a changing environment and the human impact has been severe in the past as the four Bronze Age cairns suggest.
In this extract from the “Book of St. Fittick”, published in 1902, Dr. Thomas White Ogilvie describes what the scene looked like in his day.
“full of quiet charm, this little glen, with its Kirk on the height and its Kirk in the hollow, extending from the great gap in the cliff, which forms the Bay, up to the river, where, with majestic bend, it sweeps glittering and gurgling by Allenvale and Duthie Park, sweetest of resting places for the quick and the dead”
Perhaps a re-evaluation of this Voice article is due.
Picnic anyone?
A very interesting take; and there are those in the Council who’d love it if people forgot what has gone before. For openers, there is the forestry commission’s own soil report covering the pollution and the rocky soil matrix; trees that do grow over the domestic and industrial waste will be likely to fall over because of the soil matrix in the wind. Community councils in the area opposed the scheme when it emerged its proponents had deliberately hidden the deer cull from the public consultation. The public consultation for phase 2 of the ‘tree for every citizen’ scheme ignored the £43,800 which the city was forced to repay for the failure of phase one. The causes of the failure were acknowledged to include weeds as well as deer browsing. The weed issue is not being addresses; weeds are overtaking the saplings. The deer could have been humanely dealt with; the trees did not have to go on Tullos in the first place; but perhaps the LibDems were keen to keep at least one of their election pledges, and Aileen Malone insisted the scheme would go ahead. She prevented me and (happily now councillor) Andy Finlayson from addressing the committee she convened when we had fresh information (the cull, the cost of the failure, etc) which could have shed new light on the realities – she used the rather disingenuous excuse that since she had only called for a verbal report on the deer / tree situation, no one was allowed to address the committee. A vote was taken and almost everyone save the labour councillors voted against letting us speak. So much for open government. Twenty deer were to have been culled; 34 or 35 were killed – but the record-keeping was so poor we don’t actually know. Consultant Chris Piper got at least £70k for his work on this project; he produced a report that said a small but vocal minority were against the scheme: ignoring the petition signed by about 3.5K people and the opposition of the community councils. The existing ecosystem before the tree scheme was launched saw deer migrating on and off the hill for at least 70 years without the need for a cull; smaller mammals were driven off the hill when the bulldozers came in; and bracken now replaces the gorse that housed and fed these animals and many bird species – many of which were on the RSPB’s list of birds which are in danger of significant population decrease. The hill was a rubbish tip (including radioactive waste) which had turned into an improving meadow; we’ve allowed a small handful of people to turn it into a poor looking tree experiment where gorse is now replaced by bracken. For those interested in the history of what happened here, here’s the link to my report http://suzannekelly.yolasite.com/ . The then city council went out of its way to disregard the elected community councils, the science, the thousands who signed the petition, and the right of the deer to continue peacefully. When this current crop of trees eventually fails – whether early in their growth cycle because of the weeds or later, when the 90+ mph winds and salt spray do their work – we’ll be out of more money. This to me was a hugely wasteful, cruel, unscientific project all to please the LibDems and make their ‘tree for every citizen’ election plank look good. Let’s not forget what happened here, so we can make sure it doesn’t happen again.
I think that we are talking about quite different issues here. The politics of local conservation are perhaps needing to be set aside. The hill and its resident population of wildlife do need our understanding and support but perhaps in a more laid back way. Let it grow back without too much human interference perhaps.
Your point about what has gone before is of course valid. But perhaps in the long term, and I mean the very long term, it would be better to let nature take its course.
Fully agree with you Sean, on the City council point at least, who in their right minds would hold a referendum then ignore the result, in the process turning down over £50 Million pounds in donations, madness.
Councils would be way better off without these part time politicians controlling them, every councillor should be an independent doing the best for their areas, party politics has no place at council levels.
Sorry George but figures gleaned from census figures and council’s website suggest your figures are a wee bittie oot.
Population of Aberdeen City 224,970
Population eligible to vote 192,067
Votes cast including 92 spoilt votes 86,568
Now even allowing for the fact I was not top of the class for maths I make that about 45.1 % not 52% as you quote
You conveniently forget to mention that 41,175 were against the CGP. 4,126 of a majority is hardly a ringing endorsement for the project
1 is a majority Bob, considering the misinformation spread by the no side I’d call 4,126 a massive majority.
And then DIRECT democracy was ignored and we were left with a dank almost no go zone in our City Centre.
Those who shout loudest tend to be heard, the socialists did the shouting as a rich man was involved. Same old story in Aberdeen, the silent majority get ignored, their votes even get ignored.
Where are the improvements that were promised? I see nothing but a decaying centre when we could have had a dynamic vibrant centre to be proud of, the best thing was we didn’t even have to pay for it. Green space would have doubled and it would have had easy access for the infirm, disabled and families.
The activists move on to the next campaign proud that they’ve blocked badly needed redevelopment, do they care that DIRECT democracy was ignored, do they heck, they know best.
Who’s spreading misinformation now George ? Dank?Almost a no go area.? Try telling that to all the people who sat in the sunshine in the gardens over the past few months[loads of photos on websites to prove this fact}and funnily enough went unmolested by the so called “undesirables” We have also the wee small problem of the original public consultation vote, before which, Sir Ian Wood said he would walk away if that vote went against him. It did and he didn’t.HE didn’t accept a democratic vote then, preferring to carry on the fight until he got the result he wanted. So he is as guilty of thumbing his nose at democracy as is the Labour council who overturned the result.Remember we were all warned by the previously SNP led council that the referendum result would not be binding. Who’s to say that an SNP led council would not have ignored the result had it gone the other way. Here we go again George, it was all socialists who were responsible for the 41,000 voting the way they did,and they all did it because a rich man was involved. Shades of the same argument you have used over your support for another rich man Mr Trump. I have rarely read such a load of drivel
I’ve lived in Aberdeen all my days and was not even aware a consultation was taking place, I’ve also read people boasting about how many times they voted in the said consultation, hardly a democratic vote I’m sure you’ll agree.
The only fair way was to ask everyone in the City, one person one vote, this they did and the result was clear.
I’ve no doubt they park was busy in the hot spell we had, is that enough for you? The park being busy for a handful of days over the Summer Months? Try going there from September through till May and the result will be very different.
A street level square covering the rail lines and road would have provided much more green space and would have been perfect for street markets, concerts, ice rink in Winter, cafe’s and bars with outdoor heating, our very own Covent garden/Trafalgar square with grass areas attached. It would have been accessible to all, my father is wheelchair bound, how does he get from the bus stop on Union street into the garden? How about the young family with prams en tow?
Actually I’d challenge you to go look there right now and tell me how well utilised the space is and how many people are in it, the last I went was the day of the International street market, Union Terrace was heaving with people, myself and my family were the only one’s who had taken some food into the garden, apart from two dodgy looking people in an archway it was deserted, it should be a focal point, a natural gathering place.
And I can assure you that the protests were Socialist led, scaremongering about huge debts and how it would bankrupt the City, all utter rubbish.
It was the same people who were at the forefront of both the UTG and the Trump protests, it doesn’t take a genius to work out their real agenda, in my opinion of course.
“I’ve no doubt they park was busy in the hot spell we had, is that enough for you? The park being busy for a handful of days over the Summer Months? Try going there from September through till May and the result will be very different.”
It’s a PARK, George, min. Ken, a PARK.
Fowk tend nae to ging to parks when it’s weet, snawin or caul, as a rule.
If you can provide me wi user statistics for Hazleheid, Duthie Park, Seaton Park, Stewart Park and Victoria Park, in the period during which you say UTG is teem, and show me that per square metre they are any better “used” that UTG, I will donate 50 quid to a charity of your choice.
I put “used” in inverted commas, because its needs definition.
I love Lochnagar. I admire its snowy corrie, or as Byron described it “the steep, frowning glories” fae Kingseat efter I’ve peched up the brae fae the Pitmedden road on my bike, it’s a magnificent spectacle as it hoves into view at Tullich on the A93 jist efter Cambus O May, it lowers ower the hale o Deeside as you approach Kinker fae Torphins, it is so magnificent that there is a marked viewpoint on the Tarland road, jist east of the Culsh Earth Hoose that allows you to breathe in the visual magnificence of the plain between Pressendye and the Mounth. It is a magnificent natural resource.
That’s how I “use” Lochnagar. I have climbed it often, but nae every day.
Do you want Lochnagar made into a theme park, or have the corrie riven in twa to allow folk to walk straight through fae Deeside to Glen Doll withoot haein to dee a that tiring climbing? Maybe if a wealthy “philanthropist” offers enough, the fowk of Braemar and district could have a non-binding referendum on it?
Likewise, even when I’m nae in UTG, I love looking ower it fae Union Brig and seeing HMT dominate that bonny slope. I “use” it every time I walk doon Union Street. Try it, it might cheer you up.
I have to admit that I am lucky and the bedroom tax does not affect me, but I think it was introduced for genuine reasons i.e. to free up larger houses for those that need it. I know looking into it the system has some serious flaws especially when you read of parents with sons, daughters in the army being hit with it, but if you only need a two bedroomed house and you are in a 3 then I believe you should downsize and let the ones that need the 3 bedroomed move in. Again the flaw here would be that the Aberdeen council apparently does not have the smaller houses to downsize people, but it this actually true, I mean has anyone actually counted the empty properties the council actually has.
We could look back and blame the fact that the council brought it the right to buy, but the main problem we now face is the fact that councils across the country did not invest that money into building other properties for future generations of tenant’s on this is what we are now left with.
But going back to the original point I still believe that this is a good thing providing it is managed correctly and all possible solutions have been examined
Ah see what you’re sayin’ Sean, and empathise to an extent, and at least agree that it’s ower bonny a fountain to commemorate such an ugly set of events.
In present times it is commonly known and understood that the Anglo-Zulu war was unnecessary and brutal, endorsed by Queen Victoria and driven by the deliberately perpetuated belief that Zulus were inferior, but malicious and dangerous beings.
However at the time of building the memorial, and before we could get our info via a couple of kewords and a google search, general public opinion was shaped by what news came out of Africa intact, and what of that was deemed fit for distribution by the powers that be ( or rather, were ).
In view of this, I find your comment about the people of Fochabers a bit harsh, particularly as only a tiny empowered and privileged minority would have been party to the decision, and would have been similarly influenced by approved accounts of events.
It is good that different feelings and opinions are allowed to comment in Aberdeen Voice, and I am grateful (and wiser) for your comment Fred. I made my comment after reading the article, and the article made me feel angry.
The British Empire invaded and occupied many countries that the Empire had absolutely no right to and this was done in a very cruel, self-righteous and merciless manner. Hundreds of thousands of indigenous peoples died (perhaps even millions), while Britain pillaged and those in charge became the richest in the world.
When I watch the news broadcasts from former occupied countries such as Nigeria and Zimbabwe, I can’t help but think that their problems and suffering started because of Britain. If I was Prime Minister I would quadruple the overseas budget and that can be paid for by taxing all the millionaires and billionaires at eighty per cent, (which would also sort out Britain’s poverty).
I see where you are coming from Sean but I don’t agree. For a start, in those days of “Empire” the common people were the underdogs. To get ahead you had to be part of the establishment. Wilson worked as a bank clerk then saw a way out. LIke many before and after, he went off to war, little realising the folly. The great lie, the old lie and the fibs we were all brought up with. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mores.
Its a story, a good tale and that’s all Sean. As to the funding of the fountain I suspect it was by subscription. There are many like it in Moray.
I really take issue on one point though. The use of the insulting term “imbecile”. Its not healthy to insult folk.
Its rude and its insulting not only to the people of Fochabers, but to us Scots. We are better than this. We can see the other point of view. We are strong because of this.
There is room for informed and indeed passionate debate and that is why I write for the Voice and indeed many other papers. But insulting the people of Fochabers is a step too far.
I am happy to discuss further.
I didn’t realise you were medically qualified Suzanne, but you must be, or you wouldn’t presume to hand out valuable advice about sunscreen. Oh, sorry, my mistake, you’re not – you’re handing out patronising misinformation. Fifteen minutes a day without sunscreen is actually very good for children. The sun is their best source of vitamin D. Stick to what you know. But then I suppose your column would be considerably shorter.
[ Edited very slightly to remove risk of being viewed as defamatory – Moderator ]
As a former colleague of Maggi and one of the “proof” readers, I can thoroughly recommend this book as it was truly written from the heart, Maggi is truly inspirational and a great laugh!
Hello Maggi, I bought your book on Kindle and have to tell you that it does you no favours ! There are sentences left unfinished, particularly at the end of paragraphs……as a reader this is seriously irritating! There is of course the option that this is intentional ! if so why? The bits (and they are bits….all broken up ) that I have read though are great………not sure it be such a monumental effort on the part of the reader though !
I too was one of the proof readers and found reading the book Dying Embers & Shooting Stars to be truly inspiring. Maggi is a selfless and committed individual who has always puts the needs of others before her own. Through her dedication and commitment many others have benefitted and its an honour to be her friend.
Perhaps there are more than one Glen Urquhart’s Ruth. Happy to corrected if I am in error though.
The Roll of Honour for the Shangani Patrol reads:
MAJOR ALLAN WILSON:
Born 1856 in Glen Urquhart, Co. Ross, Scotland.
Son of Robert Wilson.
Educated: Kirkwall Grammar School, Orkney, and Milnes’ Institution, Fochabers, Co. Moray.
Emigrated to South Africa, 1878.
Came to Mashonaland in 1892.
I feel sickened to think that Trump will be allowed to take over nearly the whole of Balmedie sands, It is a disgrace that he is even allowed to be even considering it. It seems money talks in this tragedy again. What makes me very suspicious is the fact that he is acting as if he has the land already, recently walked our dogs there and he has littered the area with small flags to plot his course, This greedy land destroyer has to be stopped.
We have to act as a voice of the people of Scotland now before all our green areas, wildlife reserves, parks and beaches have all gone.
Strange post, he does own the land already, you were walking on his land. And he hasn’t taken over the balmedie sands nor will he ever, you’ll still be able to walk on all the beaches to your hearts content.
So in reality he’s done NOTHING wrong, you have nothing to be sickened about.
I’m not a local resident, but I didn’t know anything about a consultation. It’ll be interesting to see if the local press (I don’t follow it anymore) mention it, and urge people to have their say. I listen to radio Scotland most mornings, there has been no mention of it there.
I have the greatest respect for Suzanne but am still none the wiser about how to comment on this issue. The link to http://suzannekelly.yolasite.com/ does not help.
thanks all for letting me know some of you have difficulties opening the two pages of the reply form; and it looks like quite a few of you accessed the yola page. I will upload a different, clearer version later today, before noon, and advise you when that is done. The two page form can be opened, printed, completed and sent to Trump International Golf Links Scotland either by email (if you have a scanner) or post. The photos beneath the form are of the text displayed at the exhibition so you can read and decide your position.
If you don’t want to wait for my PDFs to be uploaded to Yola, then why not drop a line to admin@trumpgolfscotland.commailto:admin@trumpgolfscotland.com , tell them you read their exhibition materials but you need to have a comment form sent to you (by email). They should be happy to oblige, and you might want to ask any questions if you email them, too.
My objections to the design will be environmental concerns (the previous environmental monitoring deteriorated); proximity to the public park (danger from flying golfballs for a start), and proximity to the water of some holes (possible further collapse). When I copy the local councillors I will ask that NO further approval be granted until MEMAG or a better environmental monitoring group is installed, until there is a decision on the requested public hearing, and until there are guarantees from TIGLS that there will be no further deviations from approved plans, current or future
I feel angered that someone who’s not even British, let alone Scottish, has so much control over the council simply because he has money. It’s worse than a tragedy
Would you have went if it was just another golf course being built? Craibstone was built not that long ago, did you go along and object to that?
This hounding of Mr Trump by you and serial objectors is very tiresome, leave the man and his business alone, he owns the land and subject to planning laws can do what he likes, it isn’t an incinerator he’s building, it’s another great golf course. Think of the tourism it will bring and the jobs it will create.
This new site has no sites of scientific interest, the best objection you have is it borders a park! come on, the likes of Auchmill borders peoples houses and no one has ever been injured by a flying ball.
As I’ve stated before, in my opinion the only reason you’re interested is because you don’t like Mr Trump, that is a very poor excuse and leaves a sour taste in my mouth that some people can be so vindictive.
Having just read through the entire consultation paper I can see not one reason to object, I wish Mr Trump all the best with his new course and thank him for bringing employment and tourists to the area.
I’d also like to commend him for his efforts in increasing the wildlife habitat in his plans.
What was once farming and scrub land will soon be a magnificent well maintained golf course, for that we should all think him and his team.
Now if only the plans for those ugly wildlife damaging turbines could be thrown out things would be perfect, I look forward to the Aberdeen voice reporters getting their teeth into that one, a real environmental disaster and an eyesore for us all, one we all need to unite behind to defeat, over to you Suzanne.
And trumps golf course aint ugly ? it be an effin eyesore once houses and the hotel go up.
I wonder whats in it for you george smith?
[ Post amended. Paul, you are very welcome to challenge input from George or any other, but please leave the personal insults out, cheers – Moderator ]
If you know of employment he’s brought to the area, please do send your evidence, for there seems very little of that. Thanks George; always a pleasure to hear from you
The lack of tents in the area suggest the tourists who have used the course lived in hotels and guest houses, the grass appears to be cut on a regular basis which suggest greenkeepers are employed, you never tire of mentioning the security, again more jobs. I suspect one can eat and drink at the course, more service jobs, waiters, porters, chefs, cleaners, great news in my opinion, not everyone is lucky enough to be well educated, people need to live and feed their families.
Lets add in the fact the tourists will be eating outwith the course, that means local cafes and restaurants will be getting business, as will taxi and bus companies. Let’s also look at the pic in the header, we see a young waiter and Mrs Malone, so that’s the service industry and the course management. That’s before you get to the local cinemas, shops, take away’s, whatever type of service is used by a tourist to the area.
Oil won’t be here forever, we need to get tourism in the area, it may turn out to be our most valuable resource, our area is beautiful and golf courses will only enhance that, take off your blinkers.
Reply to George Smith. I suspect that most of the players LIVE in the Aberdeen area, or are visiting on business, and would be staying in the area even if the course was not in operation.
“Oil won’t be here forever” There is no evidence of production falling. No oil field has been decommissioned. Fields at the ends of their lives require MORE labour rather than less. Income from oil will be with us for many years to come.
” dirty-blonde woman who emphatically refused to identify herself ”
Out of interest Suzanne, why should this woman be forced into identifying herself, what has it got to do with you or anyone else?
I’m sure she has good reason for keeping quiet, we’ve seen in the past how the objectors to various projects have attempted to dig up dirt on anyone who stands in their way, Sarah Malone has herself been the subject of various attacks, from her looks to whom she married has all been used in the past, I too have had my facebook page dug into and been accused of being a racist, not to mention my workplace being used as a weapon to tar me, she did the right thing keeping quiet in my opinion.
let’s think George. A public consultation offers the chance to put your questions to the team who want their design approved. I sit down and am told I’m speaking to Martin Hawtree, the designer. Every other question I ask – or near enough it – is interrupted by Anne Faulds telling him not to answer, declaring the question is not relevant, or otherwise interfering with my conversation. I’d say that’s fairly relevant. Why she thought it was best not to identify herself to me, when her identity was easily enough confirmed by other visitors and a 5 second look at the internet is a good question too. Sarah Malone would have, I thought, known who I was; after all, my picture atop the collapsed course was on a fair few of the UK’s front pages. Naturally when I was asked to identify myself, I did so. But so much for a chance to get my questions answered. To be fair to Hawtree, he was pleasant enough, if not party to information I was after.
Suzanne, I don’t know your questions so couldn’t comment on them but suspect you would have been there to be divisive, why not list the questions you posed so we can make up our own mind, I suspect none were in the least encouraging of the good work the Trump team has done in the area nor of the employment or tourism the courses will create.
I don’t why you expect to be treated well when you constantly deride the good work that has went on there, actually did you ever set foot on the estate before Trump bought it?
I’ve been many many times and see nothing but constant improvement, I have an open mind though.
You object for environmental reasons, hahaha, now there’s a surprise. Not a cheep from you on an attempt to plant 650 foot wind turbines into the sea in the area, the catastrophic damage to wildlife by these things is well documented, that’s before you even get to the asthetics but you’re concerned someone may be hit by a wayward golf ball. You couldn’t make it up.
As the “farmer” with the rundown farm says, “if the turbines p**s off Trump then I’m all for them”, at least he had the guts to be honest, you hide the fact in my opinion, you just can’t accept that a rich man is doing something constructive in our area.
You’re in danger of losing support for real issues with this continued witchhunt in my opinion, the look of sheer delight in your face that the marquee tent wasn’t busy says it all, I don’t think you had any intention of going there with an open mind, you went to collect information that you hoped could damage the application.
Your socialist agenda is quite clear, I wish you would have the guts to just come out with the truth instead of trying to blur things with an environment slant, hopefully the councillors will see through the likes of you and vote this perfectly good application through, the vast majority in the area support Mr Trump and realise oil won’t last forever, we could do without the same objectors trying to stop progress in the name of their political beliefs.
btw That’s champagne socialists, the type who own huge houses and shareholdings in companies and drive expensive cars, Aberdeen is full of them, always middle class silver spoon in the mouth types who don’t struggle for work. Real socialists would laugh at them.
In the past few months when there has been discussion in the television news and the papers about this second course, I haven’t come across any mention of the permanent club house. You would think that “The World’s Greatest Golf Course”, which is now going to have an adjoining “Magnificent” golf course, (and dedicated to his mother). Would not have a cheap prefab club house made out of timber.
I unfortunately didn’t go to the consultation, but if there wasn’t any mention of the glorified stone built club house, I find this a bit suspicious.
Public consultation is held, as I understand, for the purpose of informing interested members of the public and to afford them the opportunity to ask questions. It seems unreasonable of TIGLS to present a team to the public, which was either incapable or unwilling to answer a question about The Scottish Outdoor Access Code, particularly since they had published a statement about it and how it applies to golf courses. Would it have been too much trouble for TIGLS’ team to have had a copy to hand or via internet access?
I doubt the lady, who refused to identify herself was a lawyer since even a junior lawyer or anyone interested in outdoor pursuits would have been able to answer that question. Unless, of course, this consultation process disguises TIGLS’ partiality and their disrespect for their neighbours and the public.
Suzanne makes it clear in the article she opposes the course, she turned up with her mind made up, the people there are more than aware of the small group of people who continually hound the project, why should they bend over backwards when it’s clear no matter what they say it won’t make a jot of difference.
I accept that TIGLS would want to put on a good show of their proposals and planned new golf course. My point, however, is simply that as part of a “public consultation” the organisation should be prepared to field questions from those who may be opposed to it. Questions about public access should be easily answered, unless there is some reason to avoid them.
Perhaps TIGLS needs to try winning over those who have been hounded by the project, in particular their own neighbours at Menie. Support for them is anything but small.
Was this a statutory consultation? How could you tell? Were there any officers from the council in attendance if for no other reason than to ensure that the minimum requirements of the process were fulfilled? Interesting too that both of the commentators criticising Suzanne and her journalism don’t offer up either an alternative report of the public consultation or any substantive answers to the pertinent questions that were put to the ‘professional’, if anonymous, representatives of TIGLS. I’m wondering if these critics understand the current status of communication between Aberdeenshire Council and TIGLS which is (stated explicitly in official communication from said council) – Speak to my lawyers!
Dearie me Suzanne. Poor wee Stuartie. The man’s lost maist of his hair on his headlong rush to fill his various bank books to ensure a long and happy retirement. Should we really be so hard on him? After all, it’s the norm,nowadays, to rip off everyone in sight, especially local authorities and, let’s face it, our’s has a long history of selling off it’s assets at well below market value.
Got to agree with you in regard to Sir Ian’s continued obsession with Granite Webs. He seems to have forgotten about his pledge to, “walk away,” if the public didny like his master plan. Remember all the “consultations,” where anyone going against the proffered edifice was simply ignored? Then there was the “referendum” where, apparently, 20% of the electorate voting in favour of something which had neither been formalised, with content set in stone – sorry,”granite” – and costed, accurately, to the last penny,, with no potential for The City being left to hold the baby if the bathwater ran out appears to be a massive majority in favour. Wonder if that vote could possibly have been rigged? I mean, if one side manages, in various dubious ways, to pour funding in, well over and above that allowed for referenda, could that be, ever so slightly, be construed as an unequal bias?
Of course, Sir Ian’s benevolence must be welcomed. His dictatorial stance on how the money must be spent is not. His recent comments in the illustrious P&J asserted that,”road, air and sea transport,” to our magnificent city must be improved. Perhaps he could allow his benevolence to be utilised to that end? Aberdeen Crossrail springs to mind, along with “The Haudupagain,” upgrade. I am sure these improvements would benefit the good citizenry more than filling Union Terrace Gardens with concrete and turning it in to Teletubbyland. But , then again, when the oil and gas run out, we would all have someplace to relax, maybe even beg, because half the populace will be unemployed, apparently, and living, hand to mouth, on benefits (if they still exist). A crumbling, concrete edifice, filled with dying trees etc, is just the place indeed for the great and the good to stroll through and drop the odd pound coin in to the polystyrene cups being proffered by the less fortunate.
You would trust Barney with £50 Million pounds? lol
I wouldn’t trust him to run my bath let alone a City regeneration program, and as it is Mr Woods money he has every right to say how it should be spent.
You omit to mention the only fair referendum was won with a clear majority who were in favour of the CGP, you objectors just hate that fact and try every dirty tactic to try and discredit it, you can’t accept that other people in the City have differing opinions to you, even then you still think your way is the best as you believe you’re more educated than the oiks who voted yes, makes me ill the attitude of the far left in our City. They stay in luxury yet play at being socialists, we called them snotty when I was a kid, know it alls.
George,
I am beginning to feel sorry for you. You come across as being consumed with hatred against anyone who doesn’t see things your way. All the referendums were fair but unfortunately the SNP led council declared before the
last referendum took place that it was not binding. Where is the fairness in that? A pointless exercise in my book. You still seem to be seeing “Commies under the bed”. You certainly would have been at home in the company of Senator Joe McCarthy.
Perhaps you should have read the letters page in a recent addition of the P&J George. One eminently sensible lady suggested that, if a compromise had been reached, covering the rail and road to increase green space, everyone would have been happy. Shame Sir Ian couldn’t compromise or the whole sorry saga could have been averted.
Since when did a 20% vote in favour of anything become an overwhelming majority George? Are you actually saying that that the referendum was fair after it was proved financial bias was overwhelming? You also neglect to mention the small matter that the public, overwhelmingly, threw out The Granite Web at public consultation. What’s the point of consulting to ignore the result I wonder? Could it be there were ulterior motives ta play? Perhaps a 5 star hotel or another shopping mall in the fullness of time when the concrete began to crumble?
Perhaps, and only perhaps, when Edinburgh’s Princes St Gardens are covered in concrete. we might consider doing likewise. As said above the gardens are a common good asset. There is no reason why they could not be regenerated in the way Duthie Park was. Only we and Edinburgh have a green oasis slap bang in our city centres. We should be proud of that and protect it from developers wanting to make a fast buck at all costs.
[ In my opinion ] The referendum result was ignored, the one chance all the people of Aberdeen got to have a fair vote on the matter was discarded, as was the £50 Million gift and the TIF funding that would have came from new business rates.
btw To even question the Wood family trusts work in Africa is despicable in my opinion, they could quite easily sit on the money they have but have generously given much to help people fend for themselves, what have you done to help these people live?
Once again you choose to attack a business leader, someone who provides much needed employment in the area, your agenda seeps through with every article you make in my opinion, you just can’t stand to see a well off person propose any idea without interfering.
Look at the state of our City, it’s a shambles, Mr Wood has said the £50 Million may still be on the table if the council intend to spend it wisely, why not thank him for the offer instead of another negative article?
I’m sure no one in their right mind would give Barney and co a £50 Million cheque to spend as they wished, that would be a disaster.
[ Post amended slightly to clarify statement is opinion based. Stating something is a fact does not make it so – Moderator ]
My posts are waiting on moderation while a later post appears before it, sorry if my comments are uncomfortable but someone has to take a stand against the agenda filled stuff that appears on here.
if you’re going to start biased editing then I guess I’m wasting my time.
[George, it is plainly obvious that you dominate the comments sections in terms of both number of posts and length of post. This demands significantly of our time and attention, particularly as your posts are generally more contentious. We do not work to your timescale or anyone else’s, merely in accordance with time we have to give. We are not obliged to publish, and will be justified in ignoring your input if it becomes a conduit for expressing disrespect for those who take time to process it – Moderator ]
I’m a citizen of the City and have been all my life, I oppose the views of this group, they sure don’t speak for me or the majority who voted to raise the garden.
I would like them to leave the garden alone if they’re not elected or approved by the Council.
Ron,
The CGP would have doubled the green space and been accessible to all, that includes the disabled and those with buggies. At the moment the garden will be empty, if it as street level with facilities that wouldn’t have been the case, it was a massive missed opportunity.
They don’t have to be elected, they’re just making suggestions. The planning department will decide if the plans they produce are viable and worth proceeding with.
Would you be in favour of a solution that was less expensive but improved disabled access (disabled people can access the UTG just now) and brought better use of the area? You never seem to come back on here and respond to questions George, which is a shame as you might get some support for your points of view. I never liked the granite web, as I thought it was destined to over-run spetacularly and the engineering of it seemed dubious at least. Do you genuinely believe they could have poured the levels of concrete required to fill UTG without bringing the city to a stand still for months or years and still come in on budget with a good looking final product? Genuinely? I’d like to here your answers to this, and the questions that Suzanne raises in her other article about safety across the granite walkways?
You’ve been listening to those opposing it for too long i’m afraid, it wouldn’t have been a case of pouring concrete in till it filled up!
Structural engineers and architects said it could be done and it was properly costed from those reports, even if there was a shortfall Mr Wood has said he’d make that up, do you honestly believe he would walk away and leave it partially finished?
As for the safety aspects again do you really think the Worlds best architects would leave the project finished if it had safety issues? With all due respect Suzanne is not an expert in any of these fields.
The garden and City centre need upgraded, we need the same vision our forefathers had when they created Union street, an improvement here and there and a few licks of paint won’t do the job.
With a little vision this could be our own Covent Garden/Trafalgar square.
[ Unfounded defamatory remark removed – Moderator ]
Thanks George. I’m not suggesting they would have just filled it with concrete, but there would have been an inordinate amount requiring transportation. The city would have been at a standstill.
I don’t believe Ian Wood would have footed the bill for overrun, and there is clearly no mitigation of safety concerns on the walkways – it doesn’t take an architect to see that. As far as I’m aware Mr Wood, or the architect have not responded to questions regarding this (or the shipment of concrete to the site, or the ability to restore the vegetation).
Union street originally bankrupt the city and is now a wreck of pound shops and bookies. It’s horrendous. The UTG plans (Wood’s ones) would do nothing to change that. An upgrade is required, a sympathetic upgrade that gets more use out of the gardens, with better access and better facilites – not a £140M over-write. UTG is a stunning location, that could be made significantly better for little money. We don’t need more commercial space, or more parking, we need more ingenuity, imagination and pride. Less it more in this instance.
George,
You attack the group FOUTG for being unelected and not approved by the council and do not speak for those who were for the CGP.
ACSEF are also unelected and certainly do not speak for those 41,000 souls who voted no. FOUTG most certainly did and thank goodness still do Perhaps you wish to adopt the fascist approach of we’re right and anyone who opposes is most definitely wrong.
Covering the road and railway, while maintaining the existing green space would have done exactly the same thing George, at significantly less cost would it not? As I recollect, Sir Ian’s benevolence only extended to an additional £35m. His placing that offer made one think that an overspend was inevitable, which it probably was. They simply can’t get away with ignoring the public at every consultation and then saying the referendum was fair and unbiased. The whole thing was a PR disaster and well you know it. What would have happened when the concrete crumbled, as it inevitably does?
Mr Wood has stated he will look at other plans, I’m sure a compromise like this would be the type of thing he had in mind, unfortunately (and I have to be careful what I say as some of my posts are now being discarded) I have no doubt it will be met by the same opponents, they won’t work with Mr Wood in any circumstance because of who he is.
It’s a real shame that no matter what he does he gets attacked, same goes for Mr Trump and Mr Milne, these type of blinkered agendas will get us nowhere and we can’t afford to keep knocking back huge investments in our City.
On rereading the article I posted I can let you know that it wasn’t defamatory, I have a great deal of experience in this law and successfully defended myself in a court of law on the matter. Unfortunately the interpretation of the law appears to differ from person to person.
I thank you for your wise words though, although you might be better reading the alleged defamation before commenting in the future.
Hello George, at the risk of boring Voice readers who’ve already got the message, it is not your belief of what is/ isn’t defamatory that matters, it is ours. This message has been past to you previously. Some of the recent comments I saw of yours were, in my opinion absolutely defamatory. Congratulations on you – you defended yourself successfully in a defamation case in the past. I on the other hand don’t wish to wind up in court defending, thanks very much.
As I said Suzanne, the interpretation of the law differs from person to person, If I was editor here I wouldn’t have included some of the comments you attributed concerning Mr Milne, you obviously think they’re ok so fair enough, to be honest the readership here is so small bringing a case would hardly be worthwhile.
Regardless, as ever it’s your paper and you can publish what you like, it is my opinion you’re more likely to chop posts from those not agreeing with the author but again that’s just my opinion and your prerogative to edit as you see fit.
You should perhaps read the judges findings in the case I was involved in, it may provide a little more insight into defamation laws on the internet, I know it has been used as case law in several cases since.
George, there are reasons why some of your recent posts were not included. The following will help you determine these, and to understand why no explanation was given on these latest edits.
Defamation is not the only reason for removing posts. Gratuitous insults, Spamming or repetition ( ie. repeatedly stating the same as has been contributed in previous posts … eg. how many times now have you told us you went to the international market and found UTG empty? ), posts which are not relevant to the actual article, posts which add nothing to the debate other than which suit your own agenda ( eg that everyone who disagrees with you is a ‘champagne socialist’, far left activist etc ).
Posts being overly personal/personalised. Accusing others of acting in accordance with a particular motive/agenda ( which, unless substantiated, appears to exist in your own version of reality ), presenting untruths as fact, presenting opinion as statements of fact, casting aspertions on fellow posters on issues which have little or mo relevance to the article, and generally being unnecessarily unpleasant towards others.
Furthermore, if anyone is found to be member, associate, supporter or representative of a group/organisation which promotes/advocates discrimination/hatred/exploitation on the grounds of religion, race/ethnic background, sex, age, or nationality, they will be permanently blocked from posting.
You have 153 posts approved, and very few have been removed or amended. Many of your 153 approved posts have actually been passed in spite of having breached the above criteria for removal/moderation, and all so we could be seen to be inclusive.
We have reached a point now where we have given you more guidance than we have felt the need to give even to any single article writer, and have attempted to offer an explanation for every single edit, from the slightest, to complete removal.
You may well have successfully defended a defamation case, but you appear to have learned little from it. We have gone out of our way to provide guidance rather than not have your input included in our comments sections, and feel that we have done more than enough, and certainly well beyond our obligations.
Therefore, you will no longer receive the favourable treatment which we have not felt the need to offer other posters, and you will no longer have a moderator spend time and effort explaining every single edit – except in cases where the edit required is minor, and we believe the quality of information/argument you offer is significantly higher than average ( for you as well as others ).
You are of course still welcome to contribute your comments, but if you wish to see all of your comments published, in their entirity, you will do well to stay on topic, deal in verifiable facts, soundly based opinion, and be significantly more respectful towards fellow posters.
I am repeating the same comments some weeks as it’s the same arguments and articles that are appearing weekly, anti Trump and anti CGP.
I also go out of my way to be courteous to people regardless of their view, me having a differing view has singled me out for special treatment. I note you have alluded to the old EDL red herring, liking a comment on a facebook page years ago does not make me associated.
I suspect most of the people who post here are friends, if you want left in peace to pat yourselves on the back then I’d suggest making your paper a members only closed shop, if you want the view of the average man in the street then keep as is.
I’ve done nothing to warrant this attention except disagree with the content of the articles, these are subjects I feel strongly on, if you don’t wish to read my comments then go ahead and block me. I won’t be bullied because of my beliefs.
George, we are simply asking you to observe criteria which apply to all, although it appears few others need to be reminded of these
If your problem is with having your posts moderated, then I suggest you stick to the football forums. It would appear they are less concerned about what you post publicly.
I dare say George that the dictionary definition of gift isn’t this:
I hand over 50m, you give me 90m you can’t afford, and a bunch of land, I get to keep the developed land, you get to keep a massive debt for decades and an embarrassing concrete carbunkle.
Do you give your kids presents for Christmas then take the cost out of their pocket money then flog them on eBay? (framed pictures of Ian Woods no doubt)
The 90 Million was coming from TIF funds, that’s new business rates that go to Central government as it stands but would have been diverted to be used here, you know to regenerate the City, despite the scaremongering here it wouldn’t have cost the council one penny, to say otherwise is just another of the blatant lies spun by those opposing it.
And concrete carbunkle is far from the truth, the green space provided would have more than doubled, again another scare story spun by those opposing it.
Aberdeen badly needs regenerating and the last people to be trusted to do that are councillors playing at being politicians, there isn’t a person on this planet who would trust them with a blank canvas and that kind of money.
Remember, the people of Aberdeen voted for the project, doesn’t democracy mean a thing to you!
Just to clarify, Mr Wood would not have owned the land if the project went ahead, I don’t blame anyone for thinking otherwise as the scare stories from the objectors were so varied.
The funny thing is the objectors complain the local media are biased then constantly ram mistruths down everyone’s throat, pot, kettle!
George,
I used to work for the Press and Journal and Evening Express when they were both quality newspapers. I was at a funeral of an ex Aberdeen Journals colleague recently and bumped into one or two others who had retired. All were bemoaning the lack of quality reporting in both papers nowadays.!!!
Is this the Aberdeen Voice or the Anti-Trump Voice as this is no more a piece on the pro’s and cons of the proposed course (which don’t actually appear to have been discussed in any way despite 2 days of posts on the subject save for an anecdotal (and unrealistic) reference to people potentially being hit by golf balls in the neighbouring country park) than it is simply a personal attack on Donald Trump, his organisation and others employed by Trump to develop the ocurse.
Your site appears to pride itself on the independence of its journal which owuld suggest at least a degree of impartiality in your journal yet the last 2 days’ posts scream of an entrenched one-sided viewpoint, clouded by personal grievance rather than an objective assessment of the project as a whole.
I may be wrong. perhaps you plan to offer a pro-Trump and pro-project piece in your next post? From viewing previous posts however I suspect not.
It just seems a little sad that the through AV people of Aberdeen and the surrounding shire have, in theory, an independent organisaiton to report for them beyond traditional media on issues affecting their local area, but in reality it [ appears to be ] simply a blog to promote personal agendas and vendettas.
[ Post amended to remove direct unsubstantiated accusation. Steve, as stated several times, we accept contributions from anyone, and provided the material is relevant to the people of Aberdeen and the North east, reasonably well written, opinion having basis, facts verifiable, and does not breach legal boundaries, we will process in as favourable a manner as any other piece, regardless of the writers views. To date, we have been unable to publish only 22 articles recieved in over 3 years, and never due to the writers political leanings or the view expressed. As ever, we remind you that if you you are able to contribute material which you feel provides balance, you are as welcome to write an article as anyone else. – Moderator ]
By all means Steve, write your pro-Trump piece; if it is legal, Aberdeen Voice will publish it. By the way, since you object to the Trump coverage here as being bias, how do you feel about 3 days of blanket pro-granite web articles dominating the first pages of the Press & Journal?
If this is what they are referring to then maybe they should re-read and process the information again! http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A309336.pdf
Page 7 Paragraph 2.2
Everyone, whatever their age or ability, can exercise access rights over most land and inland water in Scotland, at any time
of day or night, providing they do so responsibly2. These rights do not extend to all places or to all activities (see paragraphs
2.11 to 2.15). Provided you do so responsibly (see Parts 3 and5 of the Code), you can exercise access rights in places such
as:
…golf courses, but only for crossing them and providing that you do not take access across greens or interfere with any
games of golf;
Thank you Fiona; I will report back when they tell me where they confidently say their quote appears ‘on Page 7’ of the code. You couldn’t make it up; but it seems that they can
I apologise to the moderation team, was a little irked that Seans post which was written hours after mine yet appeared before me, however I understand your reasons now.
Sorry, won’t push for any of my posts to be published in the future.
I have said this before and will say it yet again. Yes Aberdeen city centre lacks green places. Yes the Union Terrace area has some trees plus some grass. Sadly ignored by it’s citizens for many decades, the gardens are in the shadow of buildings all around. In high summer they are lovely but in the rest of the year they are a frost pocket and bereft of not only Aberdonians but sunlight.
Aberdeen has the beachfront, various parks and even a hill or two within the city boundaries. The “gardens”, if that is what they indeed are, have been in decline since Kelly cast his cats all those years ago.
Build over the hollow that is now there, invite developers to invest and build shopping precincts. Then use the capital and planning gain to pedestrianise Union Street and George Street then fill the car free boulevard with trees, public spaces and public transport systems.
Like any park, UTG is well used when their is something on and the sun shines. It’s sheltered, something raising it would have removed Duncan. Show me any park, in any city, that’s got numbers in it when it pouring with rain or snowing.
I agree Duncan that they are not fit for purpose, the majority who voted in the referendum agree, sadly we don’t have the loudest voices, till the opponents can be convinced I sadly see a stalemate for our centre and more decline to follow.
It’s time for both sides to come to a compromise that all will be happy with, it’s clear major change is needed.
Major change George? Now what about the glass and concrete boxes proposed for Broad Street? Perhaps discarding that idea, in favour of a public space, would improve the area? A win, win, situation. Just think: areas of grass and flower beds, shrubbery and trees, with lots of seating. We’re left with our city centre park and a new one at the much neglected east end of Union Street.
@Tom Newton there are very few smaller properties to move to right across the UK! The bedroom tax was introduced with one thought in mind to undermine the poorest in society. What can possibly be good about forcing people onto the street? This is by far the most nasty policy ever to be thought up and this government knew the consequences before introducing it.
In answer to your other point regarding investing the money from the sale of council homes into building more homes,Maggie Thatcher included a clause that prohibited council from doing this
Just about Annabel, although I must admit there’s also an indulgent streak of sarcasm in there as well 🙂
Must clear something up tho … I am one of a small number who act as moderator. Moderators always remain anonymous, acting impartially and representative of the team’s ethos, procedures and upholding agreed criteria re. publication.
If I reply to a post as ‘Fred’ … or Fred@Aberdeenvoice, then the comments are mine as an individual, but I am no more entitled to breach guidelines and legal boundaries than any other individual. Having said that, recent team discussions have brought about a review of our criteria for dealing with comments, and the above comment of mine, although not actually defamatory, at least in a legal sense, would not now be published unedited. So tell you what? Next time I’m the Mod, I’m gonna do the right thing and moderate it 🙂 … no point in trying to maintain standards and consistency if I leave something in place which does not set a good example.
Para 2 – “pore”, not “pour.
Para 4 – sentence needs a complete re-think – unless you actually WERE a giant asparagus spear?
Para 6 – “quiet”, not “quite”.
Can’t be bothered reading the rest.
Thanks Annabel. I hold my hands up and admit that there has been a drop in sub-editing quality this week. the reason for that is because I had a problem with my email that I was not aware of until late last night, meaning that my communications and requests to subeditors had not been sent, and I had to do the vast majority of the subediting, as well as the layouts, the image processing, the editing and the publishing on my own between 10pm and around 5.30am in order to get the articles out.
It’s not a situation I have ever found myself in before, and hope never to repeat 🙂
You are not the only one who has pointed out errors, and to those others I am equally grateful. I will go and make those amendments now…. thanks again.
Looking further up this thread, the moderators have had to spend some time addressing your previous postings, so I think you could be regarded as somewhat high-maintenance…
You claim that “…I have a great deal of experience in this law…”. I would suggest that someone with reaaonable knowledge of law would be able to post online without ringing any alarm bells with the moderators?
As for Annabel’s earlier posting – well, as the EE and P&J do not seem to give a balanced coverage of various issues, I welcome the additional information provided by AV. (I suspect you probably don’t though).
AV writers have made available a lot of information for the public to digest, that likely won’t be appearing in the EE/P&J.
And all Annabel can be bothered with is some typos/grammatical issues?
I have a simple solution for all you people so concerned with what the P&J and the EE write, don’t buy the papers!
There, problem solved.
I can’t recall the last time I bought either.
If you think the answer with a biased paper (in your minds) is replacing it with another biased paper then I’m afraid you can hardly sling mud at them. I’m sure I’m not the only sick of the constant anti Trump, Wood, Milne rhetoric, what started as a promising venture has sadly turned into a witch hunt. We have another anti Trump article again today, I’m not going to bother responding, its all been said before, has all became rather tedious and smacks of a personal agenda.
For those of you who have memories longer than a goldfish in a very small bowl, look away now.
George – editor of P&J is married to Trump’s local VP Sarah Malone. The coverage has been bias on this and other issues. Other vantage points not particularly welcome. They have to make a profit. Aberdeen Voice – if it is sane, non-violent, factual we will print it – whatever the point of view. We don’t make money; we rely on donations. We print what comes in. Write an article George if you will, but please spare our readers the tedium of your arguments which have already been countered/explained to you ad nauseum.
I’m well aware who Sarah Malone is married too but I don’t see the relevance. Sorry I don’t buy into a newspaper reporting in a biased manner because one of the workers is married to someone who works at the course.
I hope someone does do some pro articles, it would be nice to get some balance as many people in the area do support it, If I was a journalist I would myself but I don’t believe I’m qualified or skilled enough to write one.
Sadly I’m also not a golfer so I couldn’t even do a course review, with any luck someone else will.
Great stuff, Suzanne! I know how much work you must have put into this. I’ve read every link; it would appear that George Smith and his ilk have not, otherwise they would see the underhand way in which Ian Wood and his cronies have gone about their business. I’m not sure if you’ve brought this up before, but on 18th (I think) January 2009 there was a so-called ‘consultation’ in the Grammar School. As far as I know, only Community Councillors were invited, me included. Tom Smith was ‘directing operations’ and deemed that the citizens of Aberdeen were not to be allowed access. There was a horde outside the school and Smith only relented as long as these people were excluded from the ‘focus groups’. He was wasting his and our time on that basis – the focus groups all asked for feedback on our comments and would you believe, four years on we have heard zilch!
Dear Ruth, many thanks for your comments; I had not been aware of this ‘consultation’ – very interesting. Thanks for bringing it up; am interested in more details on this, and in any similar examples of the City Gardens Project proponents excluding the public from its operations (such as in choosing the web when the public wanted the glass ‘worm’ as it was being called, such as not letting the public vote no to any building in the garden during the shortlist consultation, such as the ACGT holding onto the votes/comments from the consultation and not letting anyone see them, even though the taxpayer paid at least in part for the exercise…,)
I was at school with Matthew Zajac, both Primary and Secondary. He has recently published a book, “The Tailor of Inverness”, his father. I recommend it highly to those who may read this comment.
Just bumped into an ex journalist who worked for Aberdeen Journals before he retired. I am talking here of a man well known for his integrity and work ethic who was employed by the Journals for decades. The poor man was nearly in tears as he bemoaned the lack of integrity and editorial quality in both newspapers.He put this down to a lack of ability in its editorships.
Nae so sure about Sniffin’ Glue being the first fanzine. It was probably the first punk fanzine, its DIY ethos fitting in with the punk mantra of getting up and deeing it for yersel. Until the fashion industry and money men sanitised it, of course.
Well done to the Evening Express for attempting to bring a solution to our Centres decline, as long as all sides agree that compromise is needed then I see no reason why things can’t happen.
I’m sure you’d agree that a pleasant plaza, fronting Marishal College, would be an improvement though George. A pile of concrete and glass wouldn’t exactly be pleasing on the eye.
Havenae a clue what your spickin aboot Bob. Janice pointed out my faux pas about last weeks poem.Some crass comment about a sore neck and hope its better. I will ask her to translate this one for me from the Doric.
Do you fancy a Turra Coo collaboration?
Duncan min, Yer gyaan tae hae tae brush up on yer doric,
iss poem wis aboot the story fit wis in aa the papers[,no nae the P&J or the EE] aboot a fish fae hid a likin fer chiels balls. Turns oot it wisna true. Turra coo collaboration? Am nae wi ye>
I’ve just watched this video (weblink below). The Trumps have destroyed even more peoples lives by robbing them of large amounts of money, in many cases their life savings or even the life savings of their entire family.
Excellent work again. Never ceases to amaze me the sleaze this horrendously coiffured buffoon has created amongst our elected, unelected and police force. Hope something does happen with an enquiry, I feel it won’t as some rather big names will find themselves in court!
Thanks Gavin. Derek e-mailed to that effect the day we went to press, or in our case “went to press the button”, just too late for inclusion. I’ll try to remember to get a reminder in next week’s issue since the event’s on the 15th.
I for one don’t see any issues with this being here – AV prints articles and event details for anything that is of interest to our area, and this counts as far as I’m concerned. I have seen a few AV pieces now and then that make me wonder who’d be interested, but there you go
I am of Scottish ancestry, Sir William Sinclair and the Murray’s of Dunkeld, the Stewarts and Bruce’s, and it sickens me to know the Scots have sunk so low that they would let a man like Donald Trump come in and destroy the land our ancestor fought so hard for money. All of us born here in these Americas are not for the almighty dollar and the Trumps of this world.
Scotland Forever…..Freedom
Some slight anomalies appeared in the latest, much vaunted, upgrade of Union Street and The Denburn Valley. A significant number of 20 foot plus trees were seen to sprout from the new concreted areas over The Denburn and on Union Street itself. John Halliday obviously has a scant knowledge of horticulture. No sight of the necessary venting for the enlarged underground area (road and rail) either. Vehicular traffic seems to have evaporated, where to no one knows. Potentially on to the already near gridlocked Guild Street area or on to a newly created gridlock in Union Terrace and Schoolhill, exacerbated by the pedestrianisation of Broad Street apparently..
Perhaps many millions could have been, potentially, saved by installing escalators from Guild Street to The Trinity Centre to enhance “connectivity”. The covering of the Denburn rail and road to create a green space would, of course, be welcome and the restoration of The Gardens (toilets included) to their former glory would also, but “raising” them? Wouldn’t this destroy the shelter afforded at present?
The book may be a load of nonsense, but calling somebody a ‘smug looking cock’ then criticising them for ‘shotgun mudslinging of the lowest order’? Pot, meet kettle. I suspect this review is primarily motivated by the reviewer’s attachment to the SNP and their seemingly obligatory intolerance to any criticism of them. Perhaps he’d rather burn any books that put the SNP in a bad light? The irony.
I suspect the reviewer is primarily motivated by the author’s: 1. revisionist nonsense, 2. misunderstanding of irony, 3. ultra oversimplification, and 4. ignorance of historical fact. The book’s author is putting one and one together to get 500. Pot meet kettle, and reviewer meet illogical, sensationalist, author untroubled by fact, imo
Yes, I’m all for having the Scots Pine as our national tree. No other tree matches up to it for its tenacity, beauty, usefulness to other species and sheer stubbornness in surviving throughout the centuries! We have our equally stubborn Thistle as our national flower emblem, so let’s go for the Scots Pine!
You are right to bristle at such blatant gingerism George. Strawberry bald would be a much more acceptable and accurate description of the esteemed member. Nevertheless this is yet another extremely informative and entertaining article which raises some serious issues don’t you think?
Thank you for continuing to provide an informative and unbiased alternative to the insulting nonsense consistently peddled by Aberdeen Journals Ltd. The methodology used by the committee to establish whether an inquiry was warranted, that is to ask those who may potentially face criticism and condemnation as a result of any inquiry to state whether an inquiry would serve any purpose, is completely consistent with my own experience in which democratically elected representatives and the bodies, often quasi – judicial, set up to investigate any perceived misconduct by such representatives appear, in my opinion, to conspire to ensure that no one is ever held to account, thereby making a mockery of our claim to be a free and open democracy. It appears that the more evident and obvious the perceived wrong – doing the less chance there is of any inquiry or action.
I was one of the 19,000 citizens who signed the petition you refer to and whilst I fully anticipated and expected a negative response from the committee, it is so disappointing, particularly for the long – suffering residents of Menie and those of us who would like to have heard the testimony of those directly involved.
There are about 19,500 people out there who wanted a just and fair response to the petition request; hopefully they will get in touch with their elected representatives to express their disappointment, to reaffirm they want a public inquiry, and to express how they feel about how the Petitions Committee proceeded.
Just to let you know – and to let those in power know – this is far from the end of the road. There is scope elsewhere in government for calling for investigations. This sadly predictable outcome is not the end of the line for me and others who are investigating what has happened, and what is still is going on.
There are 45,301 people still waiting for the garden they voted for to be built, that is 45.301 real people as opposed to this petition where I’ve read people urging others to sign multiple times.
That’s quite a concept you have come up with George. Those you agree with are “real” whilst those you disagree with are not. Such sentiments are surely guaranteed to win friends and influence people.
Of course those who voted for the Granite Web were not repeatedly urged to do so at all. Indeed apart from the gentle persuasion, information management, incessant propaganda and scaremongering of the Scottish Government, the City Council administration, the assortment of extremely expensive unelected incestous influential quangos and self interested businessmen, not to mention our beloved, but thankfully incompetent local press, there was barely a hint of encouragement. Hardly surprising, therefore, that they could only muster the approval of around 20% of those entitled to vote. Perhaps they will have to do a little more urging next time.
Beaten to a pulp by the new University Library building I think. Mind you, the London Shard looks fine. Then there’s that Glasgow Art School building designed by what’s his name – big tall backed seats with lots of legroom and a white raincoat, Wilson or someone?
Plus that there’s that nice green topped retro-gasometer in Garthdee. Oh and the Forth Road Bridge.
Especially the Forth Road Bridge.
Sorry what was the question?
If the music shows held in the quadrangle of Marischal College were paid for using public funds, why did the council keep quiet about this. Was it so the council staff could enjoy these events for themselves.
He plays with local ceilidhmeisters Shindig though, a sort of Fishless Marillion playing reels and Boston Two Steps. Nothing like Marillion at all, in fact.
I have to say your suggestion is unfounded George. I can confirm that I also find it to be, amongst other things, extremely divisive. When you refer to the “rest of us” who are you speaking for exactly?
Well, people are certainly replying, and some of the comments, well, let’s say they are a tad critical of the EE. One person even thinks they just print press releases instead of pounding the pavement looking for ground-breaking stories. George, this is a (satirical) poll, and it is not intended to be funny, just like the ‘mend our broken hearts’ campaign is not at all cynical or satirical. A collection of the (printable) results will be forthcoming. However, I think it would take more than a £90 million TIF loan to fix the EE.
US refers to everyone outside the anti everything brigade that flourishes in Aberdeen, now i don’t know you but I would bet good money you know Suzanne in person and campaign on the same issues as her. Please forgive me If I’m wrong but I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet.
Thankyou for writting this article. As you know, my passion is animals and in the last few weeks I have picked up two stray dogs, one with a collar and tag who was returned to his owner the other without who I took to the police. I have also thwarted a potential break in at a clients home while returning dogs after their walk.
Its important that people know who to contact and are aware that these crimes are ongoing, tragically.
I hadn’t appreciated there was ANY topic you know nothing of, George. However, when there are only two local papers owned by one entity, and the papers are persistently lobbying to ruin our only city centre free green space (instead of say reporting the actual news), it is important to read their contents to know what they are saying, don’t you think? You might love the local papers George; they certainly hold and actively push viewpoints close to your own. PS – I never recommended buying the things, did I?
They certainly speak for the majority if they support the CGP, don’t you recall the referendum result.
You read the paper with a biased viewpoint, I recall buying it in the run up to the vote on the gardens and the coverage was 50/50, both sides given even coverage
And yeah I know a lot about most things, free thinkers often do.
It seems a little hypocritical to suggest not reading something, or responding to it, if you don’t like the content, whilst reading and frequently responding negatively to articles which you clearly don’t like.
Incidentally, I have never, as you suggest, met or campaigned on issues wih Ms Kelly. It occurs to me, however, that the focus of your energy should be the serious issues raised, which are worthy of healthy debate and respectful disagreement, rather than seeking to personally disparage or discredit those inividuals who do not share your views.
George, If you read this I have never met Bruce!!! but I did work for the EE when it was a respected paper. Something sadly it cannot be classed as now. As you rightly say tho we can take the EE or leave it. The plummeting circulation would suggest people are leaving it.
I live in New Zealand but I’m of Scottish descent. Tonight I watched the documentary “You’ve been trumped”. I was shocked and disappointed to witness such shameful mistreatment of local people in support of a man with such low character as Trump. He is so obviously a liar and a charlatan and I can’t believe politicians and police can be so easily bought in good old Scotland. It doesn’t line up with what I’ve always believed about the true blue Scot. However, the Forbes family, their neighbours and supporters gave me some comfort there are still a few canny Scottish folk left.
Nicely written bit of local history.
No mention of the ongoing solar panels saga at 65 Crovie and not visible in this photo as it stops short of 65. Said solar panels are not readily visible which is why I hope to keep them despite Council Planners disapproval.
I’d heard the spies arrived with folding bicycles which was bound to get them noticed but it happened before my time. I’m sure Mr Reid didn’t have a telephone so must have dialed 999 from the village phone box, also not included in this photo.
The memorial to the Vigilant is known by Crovie folk as the Dalek, a fitting nickname for it!
Thanks Flora and good luck with the solar panels. There are indeed conflicting accounts of the bicycles saga. I suspect the dropping into the sea one is correct since it derives from several older versions of the tale. An extended version of this article is likely to appear in the Leopard Magazine in the near future and will include an image of the phone box plus a classic view from the path past the Dalek on the Rotten Shore.
As ever, Suzanne, an excellent piece. As David Milne says, it is indeed a sad day for the governance of Scotland if this is what their citizens can expect. I shall be writing to my MP and MSP and referring them to this article.,
George,
Your comment about both sides getting equal coverage during the CGP debate is way off the mark,
The column inches given over to Sir Ian Wood, Acsef and the City Gardens Trust was way in advance of that given to the likes of FOUTG. something like 75% to 25%.
The Evening Express has indeed a falling circulation, but it’s on a par with other local and national newspapers, in this digital age of online news and 24 hour a day news channels. I do buy the Evening Express it’s delivered to my house every day, it has the best coverage of local sport, announcement’s, classifieds, what’s on, reviews and daily columns by local journalists, politicians, and celebrities who usually have opposing views on local issues. As I recall Frank Gilfeather was against the CGP as was local councillor John Reynolds who voted against it in council chambers, but Scott Begbie was for it or the other way round who remembers who cares. It is what it is a local tabloid newspaper that provides a wealth of local information for local people. Start from the back page and work to the front.
As pointed out it shares the same owner and editorial chief as the P&J which also has a falling circulation but is far out performing every other local newspaper in Scotland now that is interesting!!!
Name of title, total circulation, percentage change year-on-year
Just so that there is no misunderstanding on my part, could you please comfirm you are actually suggesting that the coverage of the Granite Web/UTG redevelopment propsals, by the Evening Express and Press & Journal, was unbiased, neutral, and did not seek to influence the debate in any way whatsoever.
Please accept my apologies if I have misinterpreted your comments.
A liitle over 500 bothered to take part in the survey in the”EE’s” much vaunted “Mend our broken heart “campaign. That perhaps gives an indication of the public’s view of the paper. The views of only
500 will carry very little weight in the greater scheme of things. A complete waste of time and effort although I myself did take the trouble to participate.
A good in depth piece Suzanne! Well researched. I feel sorry for the residents of the Menie Estate but wonder if you could please summarise the points in a shortened form for folk like myself who just need an easy read of the salient issues.
Hello Duncan. When you want me to ‘summarise the points in a shortened form’ – I think this piece gives background on the particular matter at hand then analysis of the redacted text, text which had been in the public domain for years. It’s a short article, and I think it does what it sets out to do. If you want the points of the entire Menie Estate situation summarised in short form, well here goes. Rich man with apparent links to organised crime wines and dines Scottish First Ministers and Scottish Enterprise head while seeking planning permission. Permission turned down at local level by elected reps sticking to the law. Plans called in and approved. Residents lives made miserable by intrusive and abusive security and police, and giant bunds built blocking one resident’s former view of sea and causing property damage as sand/earth blows into her home and automobile engines and gardens. Environmental protection of the highest kind is swept aside. Environmental group set up to oversee development is both feeble and controlled by developer; refuses to answer questions, then disappears. Local newspaper wages aggressive campaign against anyone who would stand in the way of development, calling councillors ‘neeps’, declaring the opposition would be disregarded, all the while neglecting to tell readership editor’s wife is wed to developer’s VP. Part of course built very close to sea and falls into it. Planning approval is disregarded, marks overstepped, and many retrospective planning applications are required as developer builds as it pleases. Right of access laws are routinely disregarded. Police make many visits to one local resident in particular, arrest two journalists on say so of developer’s agent, causing outcry. Exceptional documentary made by these journalists wins awards around world. Residents continue to fight on with dignity. 19,400 people ask Scottish Government to have a full public inquiry into what has happened and is happening here. Committee decides to asks agencies in the firing line if they want to be investigated, and not surprisingly, none of these agencies want to be looked into. Relevant committee therefore decides the public won’t get an inquiry, and won’t be allowed to read the statement the campaigner has submitted, even though all material was already in public domain. BBC programme sets out story so far, linking developer with organised crime. Developer told public the government promised he’d get his way; developer falls out with government when they plan to allow an offshore wind farm; developer takes government to court. Second course planned. Hundreds of houses will destroy the environmental value of the formerly protected area. Despite overwhelming odds and a system interested in money over environment, residents and activists fight on.
It’s people moaning for the sake of moaning, no one was forced out of their homes and a beautiful golf course was built where scrubland once stood. If this were not Donald Trump building it you wouldn’t have even heard of it unless you were a golfer.
Links to organised crime, deary me, how low can one stoop.
Hello George – glad to see you’re not generalising, altering the facts, or trying to deflect attention from the salient points. For the rest of you, people living in the area have the threat of compulsory purchases hanging over their homes (even though such powers are meant to be for public projects); for ‘scrubland’ read valuable, unique, formerly SSSI protected habitat. If you care about people, the environment, pollution, urban sprawl, due process of law – you would have heard about what is going on here. For the links to organised crime, well – the BBC, other media, American prosecutors and a host of investigative reporters seem to think there is something to this. Watch the Panorama programme ‘the trouble with trump’ for a little clue about this. Watch ‘you’ve been trumped’ for a very accurate, and tragic picture of the truth. ‘How low can one stoop?’ is a question best asked of Trump and his minions.
Oh George you really are a one. Your talk of people moaning must be the most spectacular pre – emptive strike against a kettle since the birth of pots.
As for the beautiful golf course, it seems that not too many people agree with you. There is , as usual, hardly a soul booked to play the course all week and there are a number of cut – price deals being offered during October. What happened to all the overseas visitors who were going to arrive in their droves via the new direct flights and the thousands of jobs this would create. There are more golfers playing at Hazlehead in one hour than playing the Trump course in an entire day. Just as well he cancelled the classy houses and holiday homes eh?
Dear George, In order of your comments: 1. just met with councillors about this issue today, Tillydrone and AWPR CPOs. Will write more about them shortly. 2. I’ve several pieces about urban sprawl. 3. The bypass is not necessarily the cure for all our road problems; better regional public transport is what I’ve been re commending. Our air pollution on 3 roads ranks in the top 10 most polluted roads in Scotland. 4. I believe wind farm technology must improve, and that it will – like every other technological advancement man has made. But the damage to the environment from wind farms seems to me to be far less (it still exists) than the current oil spill issues blighting the seas and the small matter of the nuclear leak in Japan. 5. The issues of the golf course involve the bending of laws to suit the rich and powerful, contempt for people and environment, and the rule of law; I rather think these twee matters count. Finally George – I’m sure this will start to sink in eventually – if an issue bothers you – just write your article and submit it for publication, won’t you? We’re waiting. But my choice of subject matter is just that – my choice. Cheerio!
I’m not concerned with oil spills or nuclear issues in Japan, the people in those areas can worry about them, my issue is with these things ruining the coastline where I live. I may well write an article on it, thanks for the offer.
Btw Anyone who suggests we don’t need a bypass simply doesn’t have to live with the congestion on a daily basis, try working in Dyce and living South of the City or vice versa, even with improved public transport lorries going from the North or to the South have no option but to go through the centre of our City. We have congested roads because we have too many choke points and vehicles trying to use them. In this instance CPO’S are worthwhile for the greater good imo, you won’t find many people disagreeing with me on this one.
George. Dunes don’t need enhancing. They are a natural phenomenon best left alone not manicured by planting things like marram grass.
City roads choked and polluted. Very True. Shall the bypass help? Perhaps temporarily but due to expected increase in car usage over the next 20 years{ unless we come to our senses that is and cross city affordable public transport is put at the top of the agenda} the AWPR shall become unfit for purpose.
As a Keith loon, we travelled that road a lot and my dad had us convinced that the 40 ft black and white wooden sign declaring “Maggieknockater Apiary” in the park to the west of the road as you entered the village from the north meant that monkeys and apes roamed the woods nearby.
I told my 23 year old daughter this as we passed it by 3 weeks ago. She laughed at our naivete.
You mention Ironside, not a very common name in the NE, but for years the proprietors of the Craigellachie shop and single pump petrol station in Craigellechie also had that name.
Bang on the nail, Suzanne – could sub-title it The Use & Abuse Of Statistics. In my experience, provincial journalists quite genuinely can’t make head or tail of anything in statistical form – their critical faculties simply desert them as soon as they’re confronted by a percentage sign – see their annual reports of school exams results!
There may indeed be monkeys and apes in some NE woodlands Dave but not of the hairy kind. Mind you the Lewis Grassic Gibbon Centre reports that occasional tourists turn up laden with bags of bananas.
And here’s me thinking that all the hotel rooms in Aberdeen were booked up by oil workers in
in transit. It was the Trump effect all along. I was wrong all along.
By the way, do you think Mr Spence and the fChamber have been listening too much to that fine
De la Soul anthem “93 is a magic number” ;- )
Who cares how many people play at the course, why is it of interest to anyone!?
Paul Lawrie has a new golf venture just out of town, are you snooping about his bookings?
I simply can’t fathom out your obsession with the Trump course and the local papers, surely you could use your time in a more constructive manner, do something positive instead of deriding others.
George— Could be something to do with the fact Paul Lawrie is not making questionable claims
Could be something to do with the fact that Trump and the local papers have published survey figures which needed scrutininising.
Could be something to do with the fact that Trump derides anyone or any organisation who disagrees with him.
Could be something to do with….Och George I could give other instances but you wouldn’t believe them anyway so I’ll not bother.
As an ex newspaper employee what I will say is that citizen journalism like that of the Aberdeen Voice and other independent news and information sources are more likely to get nearer to the truth than those media sources who are heavily dependent on advertising revenue.
I should point out there are another 8 articles and a poem in this weeks AV which have absolutely nothing to do with Trump or the local papers and could be described as positive and constructive
As long as this vindictive agenda against the same people continues I’ll continue questioning the motives, there must come a point when the harassment stops, he’s built a course, get over it! You don’t like the local papers, don’t buy them…and get over it!
The attacks against Trump, Wood, Milne have an agenda behind them imo, every word written on them here is negative, not one positive on the employment and wealth they’ve brought to the area.
The reason no other courses are ever mentioned here is because no one is picking holes in them looking for fault.
There is an awful lot of people in the area with problems way worse than having a small mound built outside their homes, it is so trivial when you step back and look at it logically.
I’d also like to mention that I’ve stayed at the Marcliffe on several occasions and had direct dealings with Mr Spence, I’ve always believed him to be a man of the utmost integrity who goes beyond the call of duty to assist his customers, a true credit to our City, unlike the writer here I have no reason to dispute his claim of the course helping business, unless proof exists to contradict that I believe he’s above recourse.
I am amused that the conclusion George reaches is that I have an agenda, but that the Evening Express doesnt. Hmm. I do have an agenda as it happens – and that is not to let untruths published go unquestioned, not to stand by while the rights of people with little money are sacrificed for the whims of the powerful, and to ensure that our common good park UTG stays just that. I like my agenda more than their agenda. Hope this helps.
As to the mound of earth walling the Leyton Cottage inhabitants in, that’s a very callous outlook you have – do come and see the thing for yourself. It is unacceptable.
My parents used to have a view of a green field, it’s now a view of a big school, I don’t recall them once whining about it, if it bothered them that much they could move.
In my opinion you’re wasting your time and appear to have lost focus, you’re too blinkered. Open your eyes, do you really think people living in cramped overcrowded housing care that someone’s view from their window has changed?
Suzanne,
I am beginning to despair over George’s logic. He seems to see bogey men and women
hiding behind every dyke just to have a go at Mr Trump and his ilk.One thing though which certainly comes across from George is that economic prosperity is far more important than the lives of the people who have to suffer because of this rush toward economic prosperity.
A mound of earth round a person’s home seems small beer to him. I just wonder how he would react however if his next door neighbour was to block his view with a surrounding mound of earth.I suspect he would be upset and be straight on to his lawyer. If he can afford to stay at the Marcliffe on several occasions I should think he could afford the one of the best..
Thanks once again for providing your readers with an antidote to the extremely inane and tiresome pro – Trump wealth – worshipping nonsense we are forced to endure on a regular basis. Those who choose to forget or overlook that the Trump development was sold to us by the Scottish Government, amongst others, as being worthy of what, in my opinion, amounted to a corruption of democracy due to the promised “national importance” of the golf course at Menie are now clutching at straws comprised of 93% manure and 7% hot air.
The dunes at Menie, as I’m sure you know, were of a scientific value unmatched anywhere in the UK and yet, despite receiving the highest level of protection possible, were destroyed to satisfy the demands of a wealthy pseudo – celebrity with a penchant for extreme vulgarity. That our national leaders chose, in my opinion, to aid Trump in achieving his dubious ambitions at Menie by taking the unprecedented step of “calling in” the application and ignoring the protected sttus of the site, not to mention the rights of the local people, surely places a demand on all concerned to ensure that such action can be in any way justified. One suspects that those who once described the development to be of “national importance” are now more than a little red – faced.
Great survey by the way. I tried several times to participate but was unable, despite the various options available, to find a way to effectively articulate my level of contempt for the Evening Express.
Dear Bruce – George (or someone) inferred that you and I know eachother. We don’t. Having said that, reading your comments, I’d be happy to buy you a BrewDog one of these days. All the best, suzanne
George -Your probably right that people living in cramped overcrowded housing don’t care that someone’s view has changed just the same as Mr Trump most likely couldn’t care about people living in cramped overcrowded housing. Just because your parents weren’t bothered about their view that doesn’t mean that others don’t have the right to object if they feel theirs is, especially when they are being hassled by the person whose actions are spoiling that view. Suzanne thought you were portraying a callous attitude. She could have added unfeeling, uncaring,” I’m all right jack” attitude. However that is an attitude which has become more and more prevalent in Aberdeen, and I’m sorry to say this, but it really only became this since the discovery of oil.I’m old enough to remember a much more caring society in this city.
Bob I care about real issues, I have no time for witch hunts. Champagne socialist against the rich man was my first thought, this isn’t about sites of special interest nor the local people in my opinion.
A new Maggie centre opened in Aberdeen this week, local business contributed big style, how refreshing an article on that would have been instead of another on Mr Trump.
We have a chronic housing shortage in Aberdeen, that is far more pressing than someone’s seaside detached having its view changed, tens of thousands of people in town would kill for that property.
[ Potentially defamatory elements removed – Moderator ]
And for the record Bob, I’m far from well off, I’ve been cursing the end of the Month being on Monday because I’m almost out of money, I don’t own property and have to privately rent. I work full time and have always done so, any luxuries I’ve ever had have been grafted for.
I hold no grudge about anyone that has done better in life than me though, nor do I look down on those who have not, everyone is equal in my eyes.
Egality is a noble sentiment George, now if we could only get the Scottish Government, Aberdeenshire Council, Police Scotland, Aberdeen Journals Ltd, ACSEF, ALL elected representatives, and others, to agree with you, we might just be on to something.
George, as the subject of this thread is to do with lies, I’m sorry, but I cant let this one go.
“everyone is equal in my eyes”
I’m a football fan like yourself George, a Dons fan at that, and so it should not surprise you that I regularly read, and occasionally post on football forums.
From what I have read of your posts on one particular forum over the last few months, I would have to say the above is a blatant lie … unless of course we are not to include Arabs, Muslims, Women, or anyone with a shade of skin significantly deeper than white.
Sorry, but you dont turn these prejudices off, nor brush them under the carpet simply by logging out of one site and going onto another.
If you take those comments on the other site seriously and missed the tongue in cheek irony than that is your issue Fred, it’s a parody, not real life.
“Tongue in cheek” “irony” “parody” I can’t say that any of these would be readily identifiable as characteristic of your normal style George. Could it be thou doth protest too much?
Twenty years ago I would have felt safer being out and about in Aberdeen at night than I do now, and more than once I’ve experienced the distraction ploy from a robber at an ATM.
Don’t take on these Lefties George , you will never win against their holier than thou attitudes , ABERDEEN VOICE !!!!! Don’t make me laugh , Please change the name to ABERDEEN WHINGE , that would suit you lot better .
I am always reduced to giggling like a schoolgirl when someone responds to a well – reasoned, extremely detailed and properly documented argument by having absolutely nothing to say other than to moan about people moaning. The “irony” referred to by George must be contagious. It’s even better when I am transported back to 1983 by reference to “lefties”.
Corporate bookings are not made online so they don’t register.
The course has been a great success bringing in loads of money
for Trump and the area. That obviously upsets some people but hey ho.
In George’s defence, I recognise that his posts on said football chat site are
not meant to be taken seriously.
Corporate booking do close off tee slots so its easy to see what available tee slots are left. Usually more on one course than St Andrew’s has on the five online bookable.
Recommendation: go play Cruden Bay. Better (consistently high in world ranking), cheaper and more ethical.
On the subject of witch hunts George. How about the witch hunt conducted against Martin Ford by certain individuals and organisations through the local press. I happen to be someone who has chaired a couple of committees and his decision to vote for the status quo is the norm when a vote is tied. The fact he voted against the Trump application AS IT STOOD in the original vote becomes somewhat irrelevant when voting for the status quo.It might be of interest to you to know that a North east born reporter for a newspaper from outwith this area who attended the council meeting where Martin Ford was dismissed described the whole affair as “a witch hunt against a decent man” Who was one of the leading figures behind the witch hunt? I’ll give you three guesses.
Aaah … tongue in cheek. That explains it then. That’s why I’m never sure when to take you seriously George. I’ve been trying too hard to make sense of you. For example. You told us on here you were not a supporter of EDL, and that the facebook ‘like’ was a long time ago .. or something to that effect.
Yet, as recently as July, you were Singing the praises of that same organisation and its thug leader. Hmm … so you were only kidding, Ok I get it now …. it was pretty convincing tho … your use of the word ‘darkies’ was the punchline for me …. yup, I had you down as a racist. Silly me. I almost feel as if I owe you an apology.
Well, you’ve given me considerable food for thought George. You see, I was under the impression that in a reasonably developed and civilised society, there were certain things that were never funny, no matter where they were written, and regardless of the number of ‘lol’s and smiley tagged on at the end.
For example, even if you could convince me that it was Ok to use facebook to “perv at birds I know”, I don’t think you would ever convince me to post it in an open public forum, next to a picture of myself on my avatar, and with personal details available. But what do I know?
Maybe I’ve been wrong about you all along. But hey, now I know it’s all ‘tongue in cheek’, maybe now I can go have a second look at your ( previously regarded as disturbing ) thread about the mother of Stephen Lawrence, and your latest offering on the shopping mall massacre in Kenya, which I found particularly distasteful.
Maybe this time round I will realise you are not sick, but you are, in actual fact, f**king hilarious.
You certainly like digging into my background, I wonder if everyone here gets the same attention or just those you disagree with.
The things you’ve quoted me as saying without the context involved are worthless, anyone reading that doesn’t get the parody behind the full text is looking to be offended.
What’s hilarious George is that you still think it has been necessary to ‘dig’ this info up. Truth is I found many of many of your posts on said forum ( in the context they occurred ) extremely offensive before I knew who you really were.
I did have an idea it might have been you, but when YOU posted that picture of yourself with the wax model of the queen, and confirmed it was you in discussion, that’s when I knew you were responsible…. not before. No need to dig, you presented yourself – very clearly – with no effort, encouragement or invitation whatsoever on my behalf.
As I said, I am a football fan. I read football forums. Many people do. Not all posters reveal their identity as readily and as obviously though, so don’t give me this ‘digging up’ nonsense.
As for your comments, and their contextual frame, yes, readers can decide for themselves if they really want to go there…. I would hardly recommend it though.
However, I just felt that a little context was perhaps required to provide a framework for your regular challenges regarding basis, values and motives underpinning the work of Aberdeen Voice contributors, by shining a wee light on the basis, values and motives underpinning your own contributions here and elsewhere.
After all, you did mention something about equality somewhere didn’t you?
Fred,
I’m coming round to the idea that George likes to post on certain sites because he maybe gets some perverse pleasure from winding people up. If we all ignored his posts maybe he would disappear in a puff of smoke. By all means though let him rant on as he has a right to his opinion however mind boggingly insensitive and uncaring he comes across at times.But of course if he is a Trumpie “disciple” then he has a good teacher. I find the posts by people describing those who protest, through whatever medium, to be lefties or whingers to be particularily humourous. If people didn’t protest from time to time and bring things to the public view then we would all be controlled by the very people George seems to admire.As William C. Faulkner the American Nobel prize winner once said “never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice, lying and greed. If people all over the world did this, it would change the earth”
[Post removed. Aberdeen Voice will not tolerate the promotion or endorsement of organisations, or members of organisations characterised by discrimination on the grounds of race, religion, or nationality. Nor will we serve as a vehicle for peddling comments consistent with their doctrine – Moderator]
It’s one of the best courses I’ve played. You can use my eyewitness account that the course was very busy when I played it. It’s great to have such a course in the area (along with the others). Why are you bothered? The Marcliffe may well be 93% up, that may well be a fact. Just because they don’t have many rooms doesn’t change that. It’s a sound bite. It makes it easier to write and read that we’re 7 rooms in every week up on bookings from the last year or something like that. Live and let live…
Jason,
I like your sentiment live and let live. Unfortunately that’s precisely what Mr Trump is not doing through his continual harassment of the Milne, Munro and Forbes families.. Why are folk bothered? Well although the pro Trump lot would like others to think that those opposed to Trump are opposed to him simply because he built a golf course it goes much much deeper than this. The building of part of the golf course on a legally protected SSSI might have been the catalyst to all the furore but the process by which the planning process was circumvented through the intervention of John Swinney and his mates and subsequent events surrounding this such as SIX retrospective planning applications which even the Aberdeenshire Council are beginning to baulk at are only some of the things at the heart of the protest.David Milne acknowledges the golf course is now built but his 19000+
petition for a public inquiry is to stop others suffering the same fate as himself and the other Menie families at the hands of people like Trump and “faulty” planning processes.Please don’t hide behind the convenient smokescreen of a golf course when attacking the protesters views.
There is a slight problem with your logic Jason. Reviews of the Marcliffe reveal complaints about the high number of “golfers and weddings” during weekend stays throughout 2012. Even more intriguing, however, is that one of Mr Spence’s main marketing tools, that is his official website, continues to wax lyrical about the opportunities to play “magnificent” golf courses throughout the area, namely and specifically Royal Aberdeen, Murcar and Cruden Bay, but not Trump. It is not unreasonable, therefore, to conclude that Mr Spence considers these courses to be much more of an attraction than those he does not consider significant enough to mention, such as Trump No 1 and Hazelhead No 2 for example. One might even conclude that Mr Spence does not wish the reputation of his hotel to be tarnished by the Trump brand. Either way, Mr Spence is sending out very mixed signals.
Incidentally, when did you play the Trump course Jason and why are you bothered?
The high number of golfers backs Mr Spence’s quotes, thanks Bruce. I assume you’re planning on a night there soon if you’ve been trawling the reviews, I can recommend it, comfiest bed I ever slept on.
Bit weird people would complain of golfers and weddings, not something that has ever offended me.
Tommy.
You possibly are correct in saying that corporate bookings are not done online. However the times booked by such would still have to be taken off the system. This still left a lot of times not taken up over the season.A survey has shown that golf has become less popular in America where it’s popularity has dropped by 13% since 2000. Now of course golf has become more popular in India and China but if their economic bubble bursts as some economists have predicted then that market falls by the wayside. Let’s wait and see how successful Trump’s course has become after a few years.At the moment it would appear he is reliant to a large extent on corporate bookings from his “pals” .If he doesn’t succeed in stopping the offshore windfarm what then? The business cannot survive on golf bookings alone and he says he shall not continue with the rest of the development if he loses the fight over the offshore windfarm,or is this just another bit of Trump bluster. I have no problem with the golf course other than where part of it was built, and the “faulty” process which allowed it to be built and of course the building of the bunds round people’s homes.
Don’t get me wrong, I sympathise with those who’s property is close by and did not accept an offer to move.
It’s happening with WPR and new Don crossing.
I just feel that people are against Trump just for the sake of it..
There are far more important things going on, like Aberdeen’s trip to Paisley.
Sorry to disappoint you Tommy but people are not against Trump just for the sake of it. It could have been anyone. The response against what has been happening at Menie would have been the same.
Why are you and others so concerned with how busy it is? I just can’t get my head round it, are you also following the well being of all the other courses in the area?
An interesting hobby no doubt but not for me, I’ll stick to speaking crap on bulletin boards.
Nowhere near one of the top tourist attractions William. Doubt if it is in the top 100. Edinburgh Castle has around twice as many people going through its doors in one day that a fully booked up Trump’s course has for a month. No I didn’t specifically troll through the internet for information on Edinburgh Castle.
I read this in one of the newspapers lately. Depends who you class as tourists. Corporate bookings on golf courses are not necessarily tourists.Top tourist attraction in Aberdeenshire is Crathes Castle.{Visit Scotland Figures}
As I am a fully paid up member of the National Trust for Scotland, if I had the time, which I haven’t, I could probably find you many other places in Scotland which gets more TOURISTS than Trump’s course.
Would also like to add that we need more things to be accepted in Aberdeen i am fed up of the council rejecting everything like the Aberdeen’s City Garden Project and the Aberdeen football stadium plans and as for the Aberdeen bypass it has taken so long cars will be flying before its finished.
This would sound a lot less like a childish rant and more like an observation if you called people by their names instead of just throwing about surnames. Stewart Spence for example…
Secondly, the Evening Express is a privately owned newspaper. While you may not like it that means they can print what they like about who they like as long as they have the evidence to back it up. That also means there can be no such thing as a conflict of interests. They are not a publicly funded body, they are funded by the sales of the paper. Whether you like it or not the Evening Express is, by sales figures, the most popular local newspaper in Scotland. While their style of writing is only a touch better than yours, they make money.
Thirdly, how can anyone take anything you write seriously when your polls are as mature as p5’s in the playground deciding which boy is the best looking in their class.
This has to be some of the most uneducated, one sided, childish drivel I have ever had the misfortune of clicking a link to and I’ve read sun newspaper articles before…
[ Whilst you are welcome to your opinion Brian, and we are happy to accomodate and publish same, an unsubstantiated insult has been removed from your post. Will be reinstated if you can point out one single example which backs up your claim – moderator ]
I think you will find that most people reading a newspaper would want the relationship between its editor and a golf course it promotes to be fully disclosed – why the secrecy? There are codes of ethics and standards that come into play – well, or that should do.
You clearly missed the point that the survey re. ‘saving the evening express’ was a. satirical and b. undertaken to show how statistics can easily be manipulated. I told you the sample size and confirmed that no responses were paid for or solicited. Let’s see the Evening Express do the same with their recent ‘broken heart’ survey, and let’s see the actual numbers and details involved in the ‘up to 93% increase because of Trump’ claim revealed.
Has it ever occured to you that other NE tourist attractions are enjoying increased visitors because of the additional people Trump’s course is bringing to the area? Probably not because it would harm your anti Trump stance. I live in the area and your comments about the poor downtrodden Menie resident is nothing short of laughable.
Have you seen the state of one of the properties in particular? It should have been bulldozed years ago as an environmental hazard. Aberdeen and the North East is quickly becoming a backwater due to a minority of NIMBYs in prominent positions blocking progressive projects which benefit the area in general.
Wow what is going on here? Tommy, Jason, Ledandy, William and now Ally suddenly appearing in support of a position consistently adopted by George just after he appears to have been outed, on the basis of the evidence, as a racist sexist “perv” What a remarkable coincidence!
Let’s see if you are any better at answering questions than the others. Can you tell me how many “additional people” have come to the area as a result of the Trump development?
Bruce you are asking an impossible question to answer with any real figure and you know it, thats why you keep asking it. To find out what you have asked the following would have to be done; Barricades erected all around Aberdeen with tourist check points that ask, Do you live in Aberdeen or the surrounding area. What is the purpose of your visit to Aberdeen. Has the new golf course at Balmedie Beach had any bearing on your visit.
Without such a comprehensive survey any figure given can and most probably would be met with the same “check how right I am na na nana na” style argument you are sticking to as if it proves some magical point you havent quite managed to make yet.
[ Note to moderator received and read Brian, and as it at least proves you know there is a moderator, it should come as no surprise to you that your posts are subject to moderation – Moderator ]
Perhaps your remarks as to the impossibility of counting how many Trump-related visits there are to our area should not be directed at those who are questioning the logic, methodology, sample size, duration used by the hotel association and Spence who claim to be able to put a figure of ‘up to 93%’ on the increase value?
Ally, there is considerable problem with your comment re the buildings on Menie Estate, the vast majority of them are in a very sound and stable condition. The only house that is in significant need of essential maintenance actually belongs to Trump. The tenants are getting no response when they try and get repairs done! So please check your facts and accept when you are wrong.
I’ll think you’ll find most people couldnt care at all who was married to who within Aberdeen Journals apart from those with axes to grind and no real evidence to back any of their assumptions up so then have to look for ulterior reasons. You’re around two steps away from claiming the royal family are really lizard people and Elvis is alive and well on the moon…
The poll you question doesnt claim to be comprehensive, just a snap shot from the hotels asked. They will be based on figures gathered from straw polls left in rooms and questionnaires sent out by email after the stay, comprehensive it certainly is not. The writer then uses Jury’s Inn as a separate example. Without casting to many assertions I think it goes without saying that most of those in Jury’s in for £35 a night arent in the city to see the sights and tour the country just like those paying up to £450 a night arent in the city to get drunk in the big smoke with their friends from Buckie. Its also safe to say just like the Chamber of Commerce used the most positive example to highlight its message the writer used the most negative. Would it have made you all happier if the Chamber of Commerce had lead with JURY’S INN SALES UP 5% BECAUSE OF TRUMP COURSE and then right down the bottom and Mr Spence has said the Marcliffe has recorded a rise of 93% in golf tourists. Childish to the extreme.
You have already conceded that is impossible to calculate the increase in visitors, if any, which can be attributed to the Trump development. Your apparent support for those who suggest otherwise would, therefore, appear to put you at odds with yourself.
Frankly, your failure to accept that the public have been consistently misled, by a variety of sources, in relation to the potential benefits of Trump, suggest that you will be very much looking forward to joining Elvis in a lunar rendition of Heartbreak Hotel in the very near future.
An evocative piece. Please, everybody, get an objection to this in. Try to imagine if you were in Susan Munro and her family’s place, how awful this treatment would be.
Stewart Spence said during an interview with The Times that he travelled to London to purchase his shirts and boasted about how much they cost. What was wrong with the shirts available in the local shops? He also said something along the lines that the dunes at Menie had no value. Clearly a man fitting the famous Oscar Wilde quotation. I think he is envious of Trump. DT has a private 737 but Spency has to make do with a ride on mower. Spence has been a cheerleader for Trump’s grandiose scheme throughout. However the image of him dressed in short skirt, Alice band, bobby socks and wielding a pair of pompoms is making me nauseous.
Have put in my objection Suzanne but given the council’s track record with regard to all things Trump I am very sceptical about people’s objections carrying any any weight. in the council’s eyes.
I have no interest in golf but if it keeps some people happy, that’s fine by me. What is not fine, what will never be fine, is unequal treatment under the law. Planning regulations and procedures exist for good reason and should be equally applied across the board. That being the case, the events at Menie should be a national scandal, being a glaring example of preferential treatment for someone who is not even a British citizen, far less a tax payer. I have no doubt that some people will have received financial benefits from the development at Menie but they will be very few. Hardly any jobs have been created, despite the inflated claims for such prior to planning being granted, and those which do exist are temporary, seasonal, part-time and/or low-paid. Few could afford to take them. The continued inexactitudes emanating from the people involved in the development and the broadcasting of the same via the local media remind me of the concepts of newspeak and thoughtcrime in Orwell’s 1984. Perhaps those who doubt the value of questioning the claims made should read that book and try to imagine, if possible, how they might feel if they were subjected to the treatment suffered by the residents at Menie.
Well Bruce what a load of garbage you have now aimed at me. I neither know George or have any allegiance to him. For you to make such a broad sweeping statement about me shows staggering ignorance.I would tread very carefully in what you are implying.
Ally, I would suggest that you have another look at your original comment and then ponder the wisdom of accusing other people of making broad sweeping statements. You might be a tad embarassed. I’m not quite sure what you mean when you refer to a perceived implication and don’t really care.
I too have put an objection in but I notice that it may be 5 days before it appears in public by which time they will have made their decision. This application is a total disgrace but am very afraid that won’t be enough for our glorious planning dept to reject it. How that creature has the gall to say that his ‘human rights’ are being abused by having to look at a windfarm many miles out to sea when he can to this to someone’s home should beggar belief except that in Trump’s case absolutely nothing does any more. Wicked and immoral.
Kay, I don’t think you ought to worry about whether or not your objection appears in public. As long as it has been received by Aberdeenshire Council within the time limit, then the planning officers and committee must consider it, along with all other representations when they meet to make their decision. I don’t know when their next committee sits (perhaps Suzanne does) but certainly, with Aberdeen City Council, there is generally a window of a couple of weeks between close date for representations and committee sitting.I submitted my objection by email on Tuesday evening and received acknowledgement yesterday. A quick look confirms that to date, there have been 31 objections/representations. The website is currently displaying only 9 of those. I would expect to see more displayed by close of business today. You could try to contact Belhelvie Community Council as they might know more.
The anti Trump brigade associated with this site and their Facebook page will never accept anything positive which comes from TIGL in the form of increased visitor numbers or the economic benefits.
The blatant blinkered approach by all involved cannot see past their own hatred of the man to see the good the course is doing and can only continue to do in the future.
It’s impossible to point out reason to those who just don’t want to see it. Donald Trump isn’t the nicest person in the world and the way he’s went about his treatment of a few locals (although you never hear about the ones who made a killing on their property) could have and should have been handled better. However the course is built, the second has stared and people are coming to the area specifically to play it and the region IS seeing the benefits of it yet it would stick in their throats and choke them to death before anyone associated with this page or it’s regular contributors to admitted anything positive about the course.
I’ll be surprised if this sees the light of day however as long as you see it then that’ll do because you know and I know that’s the truth of it….. Now should I add a stupid smiley face to indicate I can say what I want and get away with it as long as I make out it’s a joke?
quick one – who are you accusing of hatred? For the record, I don’t hate a soul, so who do you mean? If not me, perhaps this accusation belongs somewhere other than on one of my articles. Many people have set out the abuses of law, procedure, overriding environmental protection, biased policing, arrest of journalists, illegal security operations directed at locals, etc. ad nauseum. But for you none of this matters, just the possibility that money is being made. Trump has, according to the BBC and others, links with organised crime. But as long as he’s perhaps making money, whatever the cost, that’s all that’s important to you. Again, you are invited to write your own article; please do.
The bit I like about this post is “although you never hear about the ones who made a killing on their property”. Drue is right there we never hear about them. Come on then Drue, who are these people?
It’s one thing to say the region is seeing benefits, and write about the good the course is doing but you dont say what these are. I thought Aberdeen Voice was supposed to check what it published but it looks to me like the word of Drue is fact enough.
I cant wait to read the article Suzanne says you should write Drue. I’m dying to know what that second course has been staring at.
Good point Gary, when it comes to articles, there is back up for any facts presented. however, when it comes to the comments, we are a bit more lenient. I re-invite Drue to write an article – anyone can write one – and share his facts and references with us for his claims.
We hear about 3 family’s who didn’t sell up and move on. It’s their right to stay after all as it’s their homes so I’m not knocking them, never have never will. However there was more than 3 homes that was affected by the building of the course and all but 3 sold up. Why do we never hear about the people who were happy to take an above valuation for their homes and land?
It’s all very well highlighting the 3 that are left however in the interests of parity we should also know about the ones who were happy to sell and have had a successful outcome of their dealings with Donald Trump. So they are the people Gary, does that keep you happy? Also no outrageous claims have been made however you’d find out fairly easily that local businesses have benefited from the building of the course, food n drink suppliers, local people getting jobs who spend those wages in the region, Golfers who are heading up to play the course that may not have had Aberdeenshire on their radar when planning their golfing trip to Scotland, florists supplying blooms for the club house and dinner tables. The very fact it is there means people are spending extra in the region and that can be said without any hard evidence for back up, that’s pure common sense!! And the last sentence you wrote makes no sense so please clarify.
Suzanne, for you to say that you don’t hate anyone is all fine and well so we can perhaps exclude you however don’t try and make a fool of anyone by insinuating that The Voice in general then doesn’t hate Donald Trump, one of you has in fact said it (well wrote it). And will YOU publish anything positive about TIGL? It’s all very well telling me to write something however I’m not the one with the anti Trump agenda. I’ve put enough down in favor of the course while saying I don’t particularly like Donald Trump or his methods. I do support what he’s trying to achieve and think all the positives it will bring outweigh the negatives. However The Voice is a full on anti Trump/Course publication and for that reason you’d never admit anything positive about the course or what it’s bringing in the way of cash to the local economy.
Drue, as one of the residents who have not sold to Trump I would ask you to tell me who has, because to the best of my knowledge there have only been two properties within the estate boundaries that have been sold since 2005. Both sold privately to parties other than Trump, at open market value. There have been no over market values offers made, the best offer for my own home was approximately 50% of market value at the time. Offers received by others were also considerably less than market value. so please get your facts right.
Also if the second course has started then all work should stop as it would be a breach of planning as no formal application has yet been made to the best of my knowledge. As for local staff, I understand there has been a considerable turn over, I wonder why?
Drue, I can assure you the Voice doesn’t have an editorial policy, unlike the local newspapers where Damian Bates has a clear, visible financial interest in Trump doing well – his wife is VP there. The AV contributors – and you’re welcome to join their ranks and write an article – all have their own thoughts on issues, and there is no one here telling us what to write, what to write about, or how to think. If there have only been a few pro-Trump articles over the course of his presence here, perhaps that has something to do with virtually no one submitting a pro-Trump piece: perhaps this reflects how people feel? By all means, send us in a pro-Trump, fact-based story, and it will be published. But there is no Aberdeen Voice agenda on this or any other issue.
Far’s Strawberry Bank? Far’s the auld Wallace To’er”
Fat’s come owre the Denburn ablow and abeen?
An’ dammit, ye’ve flittit oor Tarnary Ha’,
rugged doon the New Market and muckt up the Green.
That was from AM Davidson’s (1897-1979) poem ‘Vandalism’.
But nothing changes, except for the worse it seems.
But keep it up Smithy, as long as you can. You are the voice now of a great tradition.
“Rather than privatising our coal reserves to further enrich the wealthy, perhaps this source of revenue might be better used to bolster our empty public purse.”
If something is going to be harmful, don’t do it all. A shame that you both opened and closed with this argument and in between used the fact that it could have dangerous consequences. If it’s not right for private investors to exploit these reserves, then it’s not right that the public should either. The money to be made didn’t need to come into the argument.
Drue, all you have done above when you reply to me is say the same thing but with more words but little in the way of facts. Do you actually know for sure there were more than 3 houses affected?
If you cant say for sure that more than 3 people sold out to Trump, and tell us who these are, then it suggests you know nothing about it and if you dont know that, then you cant say anyone was offered ‘above value’ settlements, and so your claim that a significant amount of people has made a killing is not worth a damn.
I think as well when you count up what financial benefits the golf course has brought you need to balance that up with things like where does all the money go from the overpriced meals served by the underpaid staff? This is out of the pockets of locals as well as visitors. Are you telling us this feeds into the local economy? If you are I would like tell me how, because I dont believe that for a second. Just because money is spent on the course does not guarantee a penny to the local economy.
I dont think you know an awful lot about it Drue and you’re not doing an awful lot to convince me otherwise.
What evidence is there, which suggests that any business going to Trump International Golf Links Scotland, be it for golf or for very expensive meals in a temporary club house is new business, incremental to Aberdeenshire? Simply saying so is does not make it fact. Aberdeenshire has plenty to offer already both to lovers of golf and of fine dining. The brand Trump, to informed consumers, seems unlikely to be a draw. Curiosity perhaps, for some.
Those who claim a so-called Trump effect appear consistently to be supporters of Donald Trump and his brand, which is perhaps less curious. Vested interests, in business and in local media and in commentary are an easy spot. Language appears to mimic that of the man behind the brand, “93%” and “haters” and comments when challenged quickly become vitriol, noteable by a lack of humour and frequency of posts.
I do not hate Donald Trump. Like so many other members of the public who have taken an interest in the events surrounding his development at Menie and the shockingly bad treatment of the Menie residents, I support them in their fight against a bully. I hope Aberdeenshire and the Scottish Government will do right by them and put people first, before profit. The ends do not justify the means and politicians are accountable for their actions. I am anti Trump and I applaud Aberdeen Voice for publishing the truth.
I’m an Aberdonian and I’ve always thought it strange when I hear people call the place, “The Silver City” (in reference to the granite). I only see grey buildings and concrete.
I inherited my mother-in-law’s tea trolley which, ‘way back in the dim and distant past she used when inviting me to afternoon tea – and possibly weighing me up as a potential bride for her son! She would wheel it in front of a roaring fire, laden with little sandwiches and delicious home-baked goodies. It had a shelf underneath and a fold-back top with a green biaze surface for card playing. . . . . Readers, I married him!
PS: It probably doesn’t really count as as tea trolley, but although I don’t hold afternoon teas any more, I can’t bear to part with this very useful little piece of furniture.
Dear Irene, your mother-in-law obviously saw something special in you when she met you for the first time. The image of that roaring fire and those delicious home-baked goodies says it all!
Afternoon teas and indeed buns made tea trolleys what they were and always will be. What a memory for you to treasure always!
It goes without saying that the killing of Dr Rinpoche and his companions is very sad and concerning. What also makes this upsetting for me, is that our First Minister Alex Salmond refuses to listen or acknowledge the human right abuses by the Chinese government, but instead falls over himself like an excitable lap dog as he ingratiates himself to any Chinese dignitary.
While recognising that UTG are in need of a revamp, I have hated all the plans that I have seen to date. From what little I have seen, the John Halliday proposal looks really attractive. It keeps the large grassy areas, it covers over the Denburn and the horrible dual carriageway, and lifts the base of the gardens higher which will reduce the amount of shade. Most importantly, it seems to keep the essential essence of the gardens, that indefinable “UTNness”.
“The AWPR will not solve the ills of the truly inadequate road system in the area, but it will surely assist in lessening congestion slightly”
So we’re spending hundreds of millions on something that will lessen congestion slightly? The AWPR is 30 years too late. That an oil rich city/country is spending its money on becoming more dependant on an inefficient oil based transportation is insane. The AWPR money should be spent on fixing the haudagain, bridge of dee and great western road/langstracht lights (all of which will remain a serious issue with the AWPR) with the remainder going on beginnings of a complete overhaul of our public transport system and a proper cycling route design. AWPR is being done to open a new corridor for building more unsustainable and badly designed plastic housing, industrial and retail estates that will double the reliance and burden on our roads. Only when we have fixed the existing problems should we consider spending money on the AWPR, when we’re in a position whether we actually require it or not.
The Mistake about the Hauagain is that they never put in a flyover. Also the Bridge of Dee should have had a second bridge built when the Dee Motel closed. They still would have had room for Boots etc, just move them a bit
All good points Fin and nice article!
Preaching to the converted here I suspect, but one of the hazards of living in Aberdeenshire is the proliferation of those huge Chelsea Tractor vehicles which the oil rich buy and then attempt to use on the rural roads. With names like Defender, Land Cruiser and Outlander they are often driven by diminutive men and women who only ever drive off road on the grass verge at my local Tesco’s car park.
Some of these monsters are so long and wide that the drivers really should sit a special driving test just to get to drive them round corners. When met on a country road they often dominate the whole road and avoid the puddles lest they get mud on their vehicle of choice. We actually have a Humvee in my locality! I understand the owner lives in a flat in Inverurie and commutes to Dyce each day doing 55mph at a roaring 4mpg. The daily journey seemingly includes fuel stops every few miles and the occupants require a stepladder to get into the vehicle.
Don’t get me wrong though, these muscle cars have their place. I well remember a desert trip North of Cairo where a pal and I travelled off road for hours exploring Roman settlements and illegally collecting Amphora. The North East of Scotland has both but most are well within reach of a well surfaced road.
PRESS RELEASE FROM LAMA YESHE LOSAL RINPOCHE, ABBOT OF KAGYU SAMYE LING MONASTERY, SCOTLAND
RE: THE DEATH OF CHOJE AKONG TULKU RINPOCHE
Now that the Chengdu Police have released the names of the men who killed Choje Akong Tulku Rinpoche, his nephew and attendant, we are in a position to confirm that one of the suspects named by the police, Tu Dan Gu Sha also known as Thubten Kunsal, had previously spent more than five years in the UK, and returned to China two years ago.
Whilst residing in the UK he made religious statues at our monastery in Scotland and our London centre. He left very happy and there was no question of any economic dispute. My brother, Choje Akong Tulku Rinpoche had always been very kind to Thubten Kunsal and welcomed him into the heart of our community.
According to an official microblog post by the Chengdu police force, the three suspects confronted my brother and the other two victims, with knives, at his home in Chengdu in what is being described as an “economic dispute.”
We strongly refute any claims that Thubten Kunsal was owed money by Akong Rinpoche, the monastery or our London centre. When he was with us in the UK we supported his living expenses as agreed in writing, and there was never any dispute about that.
We are therefore very shocked that two years later he came demanding money, knowing that Akong Rinpoche was about to send funds to the ROKPA charitable projects in the Tibetan areas of China. As we have already stated, Akong Rinpoche died defending those funds.
It has been reported in the press that the driver who was killed was a monk from Samye Ling. This is not correct. It was Akong Tulku Rinpoche’s Tibetan attendant, from his Monastery Dolma Lhakang, who has not been to the UK.
I hope this statement will clear up any misunderstandings,
With thanks for your prayers and kind wishes,
Lama Yeshe Losal Rinpoche
Abbot of Kagyu Samye Ling Monastery, Scotland.
I personally don’t but I have attached a link to Glenbuchat Heritage website where there is a wealth of info and pics .If you have any info you can upload .I have also passed on your comments to Peter who runs the Glenbuchat heritage association .He may be able to help with any specific info you are looking for .There are memorials in both Glenkindie and Strathdon so I am sure there were men from the buchat that served .
Where do we start Suzanne; Well Sir Ian Wood has informed us (courtesy of the P&J) that any debate in regard to the new “vision” for Union Terrace Gardens should not be conducted publicly. Seems we’re heading for a re-run of the previous fiasco where the public were misled, bombarded with half truths, even downright lies to win them over.
Perhaps a sensible and cost effective compromise is overdue? What about we simply cover the road and railway adjacent to the park (clearly marking the ventilation systems that would be required) to provide an increased green space, then abandon the glass and concrete boxes proposed for Broad Street in favour of a large civic square fronting Marishal College. At a fraction of the cost we would have two significant public spaces for the good citizens to relax and enjoy themselves in. Just a thought.
Just think, all those billions used for health, education, housing and a decent, cheap, public transport system along with creating jobs for our youth. I’d say it’s a no brainer.
Of course, we will need a defense force, but are aircraft carriers and the like really necessary? Is having a nuclear “deterrent” that we dare not use really essential?
I look forward to Scots having the good sense to vote for a government that will be answerable to them at the ballot box (something we have never had with Westminster), who can implement policies that are appropriate to the well being of the nation and it’s citizens. It can happen, but only we can make it happen.
The Friends of Union Terrace Gardens have a vision. Their vision is for a tranquil place in our city centre where we can relax.
John Halliday also has a vision, complete with artists impressions, but how believable are they? Remember the artists impressions for the failed City Garden Project? A significant number of impossibilities were flaunted to gull the citizenry. Let’s hope we are not being misled once again.
Union Terrace Gardens are located on Common Good Lands. These are supposedly for the use of Aberdonians (and visitors), in perpetuity, not for some commercial interest to make a profit from.
One final note: Aberdeen has a serious traffic problem. Could anyone explain to me how closing off streets is going to improve that situation? Where will the displaced traffic go? Perhaps one of Mrs Boulton’s famous “tunnels” will emerge on to the agenda?
Well written article Mike.A letter in the P&J castigates the likes of you and me as being naysayers for trying to foist what he termed our agenda on the rest of the population of Aberdeen.What the hell is Sir Ian Wood trying to do but just that.
Why anyone would even consider voting “no” in the North East troubles me. For nearly two generations the wealth created in Aberdeen and it’s environs has been milked off by Westminster for various dubious schemes which were of no benefit to Scotland whatsoever.
We could join the number of successful small nations in the world if we so chose who are not involved in un-winnable wars and the nuclear arms race. Only time will tell if we have the vision to do so.
Just think. By now now we could have had a completed Peacock Visual Arts complex which the vast majority were in favour of (excluding Sir Ian Wood). We could have had an escalator from Guild Street in to The Trinity Centre providing a covered route from the railway station to Union Street. Neither of those projects would have cost the earth.
In regard to “connectivity”: Both Belmont Street and Union Terrace provide this at present. Why do we need any more?
Edinburgh has a similar, if somewhat larger, garden in it’s centre. No one is proposing “raising” it to provide car parking, so why should we? What is needed is a large dose of tlc to the existing gardens, in the process saving the taxpayer many millions.
“Halliday – Fraser – Munro, the company that drew up the original technical feasibility study for the City Garden Project.
They also created the plans for the Triple Kirks office block and the proposed Muse development on the St Nicholas House site.”
I’d like to draw up some plans to build over the current Halliday-Fraser-Munro office.
I agree that we must try and preserve as much of the original Union Terrace Gardens as we can whilst still making it a more attractive and accessible haven in the city centre. However, over the years, many of the mature trees have grown to such a size and height that a great part of the gardens is now in gloomy shade – one can now hardly see the gardens at all from Union Bridge. I would like to see most of these huge trees removed and replace by smaller ones to open up the gardens to as much natural sunlight as possible. I am also in total agreement that the gardens should NOT be raised to street level but I strongly feel that they could be raised to the level of the upper walkway and still retain the feature of a sunken, and sheltered, garden area. The area below should be made into a FREE car park to attract visitors to the gardens and to the city centre since current parking restrictions are deterring many from visiting the city centre at all. The current proposals to pedestrianise both Union Street AND Broad Street would be the death-knell of our once thriving city centre and the area would further deteriorate – where on earth is the displaced traffic supposed to be diverted?
Mike, your quote: ‘A rational solution is to spend some money on improving the gardens but not a great deal. They don’t really need many millions spent on them to bring about a city centre heart that everybody can be proud of.’ So why on earth did you suggest having a station/halt in the gardens that will instantly open the door to uber commercial activity and cost 10s of millions. And why did you present visuals that indicate a huge reduction in Green space?
Nice wee write up and photos, but . . . Substitute the word ” that”, with “THAN “…. and this sentence will flow better . . . “larger crowd that they had tonight”, cheers Biz .
I live in an Aberdeen Council house and apart from the accommodation being very poor, there is little or no insulation. The water heater and electric storage heaters haven’t been replaced since the house was built decades ago and during the winter it can be very cold. This year I have not put the heating on in the bedroom but am sleeping on the sofa (in the sitting room), I don’t intend going into or using the bedroom and hopefully this will save a quarter of my heating/electric bill.
Pretty much as expected. Nobody with any influence in Aberdeen is interested in anything but bleeding the city dry. It’s disgusting and makes me ashamed to be an Aberdonian 🙁
Cross the venue off your list , really you have just started out and your dissing venues, have shot in drummonds a million times and some of my best pics have been there. Stop whinging you can use your flash, if you choose not too then that’s your fault.
Also too many photographers come into the scene and expect to
Shoot all the big bands and don’t want to ply there trade in the smaller venues.
Hmm, OK – where do I say I want to shoot all the big bands? I don’t, so you can come off that horse for a start. I’ve been shooting mostly local bands – including those that have been playing in HMV – my next musings will cover the Old Granite Whistle Test.
I didn’t diss Drummonds (which is actually a nice place) – I state that (for my purpose there) the lighting was not good. I don’t want to use flash – I’m pretty sure that the use of flash is actually not that pleasant for the band to have going off in their faces, plus it seems to lose some of the atmosphere of the gig. You may think otherwise and you are entitled to your opinion – as I am mine.
I am learning – but I don’t think dropping someone in the deep end of the pool is the best way to teach them to swim. While I figure out the technical side of low light shooting, I prefer to at least be able to focus.
So, here’s what I have done since I wrote this article. Not being totally happy with my Spear of Destiny pics, I did some research (I’m a scientist – that’s what we do) about how I could fix the issues I had with them. THEN I went back to the same location with the same equipment and – using the information I had gleaned – shot some more. These seemed better with regard focus etc. so worth doing I thought.
The next outing was at the Tunnels (#2) – a lot of the action went on off the stage, where there was little lighting. Using the information I gained from the last shoot, I had some fun there shooting in near darkness at times.
So, I learn, I experiment.
Oh, and I am female – we reserve the right to change our minds. Once I am comfortable with low light shoot (sans flash), my list will be updated again.
Let’s get it sorted, And you can get off your high horse, I said lots of photographers come on to the scene, I never once said YOU , I have had many letters asking how to get straight to the big bands. You are surmising bands think flash is unpleasant for bands, Slash and Alice Cooper state use flash, as they probably want decent photos, cause low light can be difficult and you only have 3 songs or less.
As I have stated, these are my opinions – and I am entitled to them. As you are yours. I think we should just agree we disagree about certain things. I’m sure there are other experienced togs who disagree with you (and me) as well.
These articles are about how I see and find things – just my experiences & frustrations, as I only have mine to go on so far. In future articles, I plan on chatting to other togs (including you maybe?) about their experiences, highs, lows, how they got started etc. I think it would be an interesting insight into the world from the other side of the lens.
Of course ya can speak to me, anytime, I just disagreed with sone of your stuff, it wasn’t personal . And yes people will agree and disagree with us both. 🙂
Looking to the future, I can foresee the following happening:
1 – Prices will rises to satisfy shareholder demands
2 – Services will decline for the same reason
3 – It is highly possible that Royal Mail will be taken over by another country all together.
Suspect you are right on all 3 Ron. Royal Mail are already priced out of the letter and post card market and depend heavily on Ebay/Amazon deliveries. Once others move in they are basically ripe for a grab by the white van man companies.Also the rate of postal theft has rocketed which is a sign that things are not good in Pat’s world.
Very valid points but, given the largest gap between rich and poor came to pass when Labour was in power, what chance do we have of any change under the Tories?
There are solutions to economic problems of money scarcity and distribution.
The Money Reform movement has been calling for macroeconomic money reform for many years. We have a debt-based money system imposed on us.
If there is no debt there is no money.
Minted fiat money (cash) only makes up 3% of our money supply, which means just about all of our money is created in the form of bank credit which demands principal and interest.
Since the principal and interest must also come from the same bank credit source, the interest can never be paid back because more interest is demanded. Interest is rolled over and becomes compound interest. We are forced to dig a deeper hole for ourselves.
That’s why debt can only go up and taxes too.
The Positive Money charity explains it well.
Great story folks. I was in Crovie yesterday for a family day out and was intrigued by the Dalek. It would be great to hear the full story of the shipwreck incident. Pictures of the stricken S S Vigilant might be hard to come by, but fingers crossed someone managed to get some before it broke up completely.
I’m about 1/3rd of the way through Eric Schlosser’s book; “COMMAND and CONTROL.” Already I feel very uncomfortable about what our Westsinister government may be covering up about safety of TRIDENT II missiles at the Faslane submarine base. It is enough knowledge to make one realise why it is based as far away from London as possible. The fact it is just ten miles up the road from Glasgow seems of no concern to the London government. They must surely be forced out of this base by a YES vote in the independence referendum.
I am shocked that Grampian Police have yet to both apologise and compensate this man for the obvious violation of both his house and his civil liberties.
Has he complained to his local MP?
Absolutely shocking treatment. No surprise really that the police won’t give answers because they will stick together and protect those who are most accountable. The council would have known months ago that repairs had to be done but are too busy trying to work out how to cut costs and fleece us any which way they can. Credit to Oi Polloi for their efforts. Awesome gesture. Well done you!
I know exactly how it feels to deal with Aberdeen City Council’s housing department, I would like to take legal action against them for the discrimination, abuse and intimidation I have suffered from their staff.
I know the Garthdee area and it is true that many elderly and disabled people live here. It is very unfair of the council to ask these people, who may have little money to live on to pay for a parking permit, in some cases as was mentioned above when they don’t even own a car. I wonder if there are many resident parking zones where Ian Wood lives.
Also, there used to be a beaver bus (No 93) that snaked through Garthdee and then went down to Sainsbury’s and Asda, then later came back up again. It was a two way service that ran from the city centre to Peterculter three or four times a day and it was a life-line for dozens of elderly/disabled people getting their groceries. Aberdeen Council stopped subsidising this beaver bus (about a year and a half ago) and the service ceased. Many elderly people now have to walk down to the supermarket but walk back home up a steep hill and the paths that lead from Garthdee Road up to the houses are even steeper and dangerous. In bad weather such as with snow, sleet, hail and ice on the ground even the young and fit students struggle.
I wonder Sean if the council can be persuaded to allocate visitors passes at a vastly reduced rate to non vehicle owners. Perhaps these could be means tested to take account of low income households.
Good one, Duncan, and Sean is on the nail also. My old auntie & uncle, who live in Montrose Drive, were talking about this only yesterday. They don’t run a car, but why should they have to pay for a permit so that their daughters and others can visit?
For all those concerned about this issue, I will update the Voice in due course. There is a further meeting to discus the situation on 11th November in Inchgarth Community Centre. I will personally be inviting Dame Anne Begg MP and Doug Ritchie of Aberdeen Planning and Infrastructure to attend.
Meantime, any points and views will be gratefully received.
Have to agree with you Suzanne. It would appear all those privatisations that promised to benefit we mere mortals were a staggering success. We now have sky high utility prices, the most expensive rail fares in Europe, massive monopoly’s controlling our bus services. Weren’t we promised that fares and costs would drop dramatically with the new setup? Someone must have miscalculated. Perhaps they didn’t realise that “shareholder value” is the main priority of private companies. We can’t possibly have the shareholders being short changed at the cost of the consumer can we?
The current governments obsession with selling off the family silver takes some beating. One would think, if an organisation is profitable and contributing to The Exchequer they would hold on to it at all costs, but no. We have the profitable Royal Mail sold off. A dogged determination to re-privatise the North East Rail Line when, apparently, it contributes vast amount to government funds, unlike all the other rail companies which need massive subsidy. Maybe we’re all missing something. I’m sure the party who insists “market forces” is the be all and end all will enlighten us in the fullness of time.
Perhaps they could save a few billion by privatising the armed forces while they’re at it. I’m sure some wealthy individual, or organisation, could save large amounts of money asset stripping the facilities afforded to our forces. A few buildings in London spring to mind. I’m sure the MOD staff would be happy in a few portacabins and the troops have tents do they not?
Never mind, come next September we have the chance to change things.
It seems the great and the good demand we have a public space to enhance Aberdeen’s tarnished reputation after the “Granite Web” debauchle. Wouldn’t the Broad Street site be ideal? We could have two significant public spaces in our city centre at a fraction of the cost proposed for vandalising Union Terrace Gardens. Just a thought.
Seems reasonable to me Ron. Mind you the naming of squares may prove problematical. St Nicholas Square, Hanging Gardens of Broad Street and a few other unpublishable ideas spring to mind.
Duncan– They micht at the openin o ess civic square play the “Muse”ic fae Legend o the Glass Mountain or even hae a bittie o “square duncin” Efter bein doon at the public consultation a think they should as weel play the theme tune fae “Pinnochio” as a cwid sweir a saw some fowks noses getting langer as they tried tae explain fit wis fit.
I agree that this charge is disgraceful and the parking permit scheme is deeply flawed. I live in a HMO, for which two permits are allowed, even though four unrelated adults live here and we all have cars. This means that two of us cannot park here during the day, so have to drive to work. ACC stated that one of the aims of the scheme was to reduce the number of commuters travelling by car – making it expensive or even impossible for workers to leave their cars at home during the day does not help this cause!
House of Multiple Occupancy (or something like that).
Parking in and around Aberdeen is a nightmare. The problem is, that it doesn’t follow any sort of logical plan either. Parking permits appear to be being used as a money making scheme, as the addition of permit areas isn’t backed up by increased provision of public transport as an alternative. It should also be given its proper name, which is “parking tax”. It is a tax, which, at £6-10 per month, adds to the myriad of other compulsory taxes hidden among the monthly bills.
Quite often, the permit is only required between 8am and 5pm and so, as N says, people are forced to take their cars to work, and not use public transport.
I could be wrong too, but I think a tradesman can get a city-wide pass for parking in permit areas, which would mean not requiring folks to buy a visitor’s pass specifically for tradesmen visits. Might be worth checking that out before bringing it up at a meeting, better to be informed.
My mum can not leave the house on her own and will have to pay for a pass for me to take her out, for the cleaner, window cleaner, nurse etc to visit. Until recently before the charges we had a pass for my car, granted even though I don’t live there but I am her main carer. My car was written off and we went to get a permit for the new one to be told by a rather rude woman No, your mum has to be on the insurance. Mum is over 80 and has never driven. She then refused to issue a generic permit even though the Garthdee area folk are, according to the “new” rules, entitled to two generic permits, before the charges,. We were then told to put mum’s disabled badge in the car when there and dismissed.
Will the residents in Kincorth, Mastrick, Northfield and other areas similar to Garthdee also have permits enforced on them ? Or is it just the Garthdee residents being singled out to make up for the end of the uni money, the sweetener they crossed palms with to be allowed to build on a green area, it’s bad enough trying to get parked at mums with students parking in residents only areas with the vouchers from the local shop and giving us dogs abuse when we point it out to them.
I can’t be at the meeting on 11th as I am working and my mum won’t get either, There are a lot of housebound elderly whose voices are not being listened to in this
There is I have been told a plan to take Kaimhill into the scheme as well. That “rather rude woman” you describe is no doubt a council employee, paid by folk like your mum to carry out public service who should perhaps be taken to task for her attitude.
The city council publish a complaints procedure at http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/nmsruntime/saveasdialog.asp?lID=46472&sID=285
Mind the cat
Just a wee update on the sell off. Aside from my cat narrowly escaping death today when a review book crashed through the letterbox above her head, it seems the share price has now reached a dizzy 574p. An increase of huge proportions when you consider the original 330p sell off price three weeks ago.
Shame the posties, who have called off the threatened strike, can’t rake in the dosh for another few years.
Documentary film maker Adam Curtis made an excellent series for the BBC called “The Mayfair Set,” all about the personalities and ideas that drove the asset-stripping eighties and continues today.
It’s well worth seeing.
These seem interesting Gordon, I’ve down loaded them to my TV. Yesterday I watched Animal Farm (George Orwell) which I had never seen before, the pigs reminded me of a certain local authority 🙂
Pamela, I am in the same situation as yourself, my elderly parents live at the top end of Montrose Drive right opp. the university, it is a nightmare trying to get parked.Like yourself I was refused a fixed permit for my car, which I have had for the last 10yrs , Mum is 86 and Dad 83 and I am the one who takes them shopping etc.What really gets me angry is the fact they have had to £80 for the one permit and we can hardly get near their door for Students who have borrowed Auntie Jeans permit from the other side of Garthdee and come and park in Montrose Drive. It is my intention to be at the meeting on Monday night, I have spoken with two councillors so far and to date have not had satisfactory conclusion to this matter…
I dont like unions, if you dont like your job you know where the door is eh? I hear the Union in Grangmouth make a pretty penny out of the workers, but thats a different story.
Privatisation – hit the BBC, its worth billions, but yeah we`ve been getting scammed by successive goverments for as long as I can remember and I`m in me forties. I wouldnt care if it saved me a licence fee. ( who funds USA/BBC channel i wonder, also who gets all the license fee`s for making Dr who dolls?)
.gov is in a bit of a state just now tho` and they need money, the colossal amounts they demand from the poor isnt enough these days, my worry is where do all the western goverments borrow their money from, i cant help but think there is a war at the end of this tunnel somewhere.
one more, if the energy market is de-regulated so you or I could start selling energy, what if .gov started their own energy company, bought wholesale whatever and sold it to us. As you state its too late to buy telephone and energy services back as they are owned by foreign bodys, but we the people could simply “switch”
Too many ppl making lots of money just for generating invoices.
Sounds great. Do you think using the word “Radical” in your name is particularly useful, or descriptive?
Seems to me that, if you’re serious about providing an alternative choice, you should change name. The word radical would only ever garner a protest vote.
Going by your key visions, there is nothing radical about your views.
I think it would be a mistake if Scotland became independent. It’s all very well if a person has a strong Scottish identity and wants to express this by voting for independence, but the generations that come after us will not be the better for it.
I disagree with Sean. We have. possibly, a once in a lifetime opportunity to improve things for Scots. The over-riding benefit of independence would be a government voted for by Scots and accountable to them at the ballot box, something we have never had since The Act of Union in 1707.
Just think, all the billions wasted on nuclear weapons and meaningless wars, where many of our young men and women perished needlessly and to no good end would be ended. The monies expended on those ventures could be put to much better use to the benefit of our nation and citizens
In England, we have The Conservatives and UKIP posturing to leave the EU. Such a move would be a disaster for Scotland and we would have no say in it, as we have none in many important issues concerning us all.
The scare stories being peddled by the “no” lobby are just that. They merely wish to keep their high profile position on the world stage and have no concern for the well being of the average voter, only the retention of power for themselves. There is no reason why Scotland could not retain the pound. There is no reason why we would have border posts at Hardrian’s Wall. There is no reason why warships could not continue to be built on The Clyde. It is all simply political posturing to gratify their lust for power.
I would urge all to vote for independence to take our nation forward to become fairer and more compassionate. Many small countries are successful without all the natural resources we possess. Why could we not be also?
All fair and to the point comments Suzanne but what about all the nice Tory politicians who continually blame Labour for the mess the country’s in due to the deregulation of financial services when they wanted to go even further and just have a free for all?
Nearer to home, the delightfull Mrs Watts, Chief Executive of Aberdeen City Council, when asked, “do you condone your senior officials blatantly lying?” answered “no”, after a bit of waffling, but appears to condone the illustrious Pete Leonard for so doing. He vehemently denied a report from a clerk of works existed but, when pulled up by the SPSO said report mysteriously became available. Strange, don;t you think? Will he fall on his sword now he’s been found out? Doubtfull. It will just be another “over-site”, which our local and national politicians and officials are so guilty of.
good points Ron – couldn’t agree more. If I had a few hours, I’d comment further about Leonard / Watts, their convenient bouts of amnesia, and the fact they have more power than any elected councillor in ACC. Cheers
Thanks for the review, great to see the book getting local coverage, Fred would be proud. On the point ‘In terms of historical perspective, it is perhaps a dull book’ I would only direct the reader to the chapter Explanations & Acknowledgements. I was not trying to write yet another overview of the war and why it happened, but to write a different kind of history book, about one man from a singular background — St Cyrus — and how the war impacted on him, in the extraordinary eight months he was at the front with the Cameronians and his camera. The photo albums he left are remarkable, and they commemorate a remarkable bunch of men, and I find it touching that all the years after the war, they put together these albums in reinforce their comradeship. I hope my book does them justice. Andrew Davidson
Good point Andrew. Yes, the legacy the men who left Scotland to engage in that “adventure” is quite remarkable indeed and I would never demean their death except to say that it was perhaps a useless sacrifice to the industrialists of Britain and Europe.
Fred’s War is of course just one of seemingly over 1100 WW1 books about to hit the shelves prior to the anniversary of the start of the conflict. The St Cyrus link is important of course and his story is well worth the reading. Thank you for the writing!
As I have said “The strength of this book is in its images.”
I intend to lend the review copy to many friends and know that they will enjoy it.
Kindest regards,
Duncan Harley
Seemingly todays EPI committee rejected the case for review. Cllr Mrs Angela Taylor said it was unfortunate that the previous administration had misled the residents over the fact that they might have to pay for parking permits in the future. It is a fact, in my view, that if, as she says, the administration misled the community of the terms of the proposed Cotrolled Parking Zone when we were consulted on it, it raises serious questions about its validity.
Unfortunate perhaps but valid?
Rico, I do think that our message when compared to the status quo is radical. And we are not a political party. We are a group of activists from various backgrounds so a protest vote will do nicely. We are more about building a mass body of people to stand up when the day of independence comes. You should cone along to the meeting to discuss this further.
Perhaps “unfortunate” for Cllr Mrs Taylor that she didn’t realise that the supposed ’10 year clause’ was negotiated and introduced behind our backs under an administration led by HER party. That was the administration that she acknowledged had misled us.
It is the current administration that has failed to deliver the amendment to the area of the CPZ requested by the Roads Section and promised in the Development Management Committee Minutes when they gave conditional permission for the most recent phase of the campus. The same minutes said RGU could not occupy the new buildings until the scheme for the amendment had been agreed and implemented. This decision was made in public but with a nasty sting in its tail that said … unless agreed otherwise by the planning authority ( the City Council). Any such ‘agreement otherwise’ must have been done in private without public knowledge. This latter can surely not be legal. Time and better minds than the collective intellect of the EPI Committee and their advising officers will make a ruling when the matter goes to the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman who has responsibility for ruling on suspected local government maladministration.
The Big Issue was a perhaps a useful idea in its time however it followed a well established capitalist limited company business model. John Bird should perhaps be ashamed of what it became in the years after he founded it.
In many eyes the company has become a beggar’s charter. In some eyes it is a national disgrace.
The street folk remain poor and vulnerable.
Are these the same “street folk” who “remain poor and vulnerable”, or do we have a production line of them ready to abandon to the streets as others start getting their lives together?
If John Bird is “ashamed” of anything I feel he would have told us, for he seemed forthrightly honest.
I think you have a decent enough point Duncan (in hindsight). But to suggest that he should be “ashamed” is harsh. Incorrect, perhaps, but there is no shame in the very honourable intention with which the Big Issue was created.
Thanks Rico. Perhaps “ashamed” is a bit strong. Revisionist history will no doubt have a few takes on the episode. Thank goodness the Russian episode failed.
I worked for the Big Issue business David and have some insight into the cost of social businesses.
In “many eyes?” Ask the vendors what they think, that is if you can find any still alive after Bird’ and his cronies were done with them.
Having just returned to the Aberdeen area, following a lengthy absence, I am shaken to the core to read that anyone writing for Aberdeen Journals Ltd might in anyway mislead or misrepresent readers in any way whatsoever. My goodness, it seems like only yesterday that Chief Editor – Damian Bates, in response to the publication of the Leveson Report, declared boldly: “Newspapers like the Press and Journal provide one of the few platforms for the little man to take on the big institutions” and further claimed that the Leveson Report specifically praised regional newspapers ” such as the Press and Journal” Surely then it cannot be true that this egalitarian organ of truth and justice would put the interests of a powerful organisation, such as Trump International(wife included) before those of the “little man”.
As for the news that one of Bates’ Babes has indulged in plagiarism and that her recruitment to the Aberdeen Journals team may have been in any way influenced by her links to minor celebrity and her looks, i am speechless – well almost. Damian does appear to have something of a track record in appointing young and attractive, but regrettably not very competent, columnists but I have it on very good authority that rumours to the effect that prospective employees are required, as part of the interview process, to swing into Damian’s office, naked and atop a bright spherical object, singing “I came in like a bawling wreck” are simply the spiteful and malicious invention of unsuccessful applicants.
I look forward to seeing Damian proving that he is indeed the champion of the “little man” and not the incompetent and less than honest hack some may claim him to be.
I now very rarely go into town, but when ever I passed a Big Issue seller they would not accept my very polite refusal to buy a copy. I have also been sworn at, shouted at and spat at by these people and the beggars.
I usually buy a copy, and frequently some of the sellers are former pupils now grown, and I am aware of the sometimes awful family circumstances. In the past one used to call our “I’ve kept your copy Mrs. Bothwell”! It is often too easy to be glib about ‘charity’. I just hope that my small contribution will, in some little way, help.
I rarely use taxis to be honest.
At around £38 to travel to the airport from Inverurie and even more to reach the centre of Aberdeen the fares are hard to afford.
Many folk earn minimum wage. At around £6.40 per hour taxi fares are out of the question.
My disabled friends however often have to rely on them. My ill pals sometimes use them to attend ARI for treatment. My old mother used them when she could not climb onto a bus anymore.
I am sure that you mean well when you say that “The next act of lunacy that our city fathers have pushed through is that, by June 2017, all taxis in Aberdeen will have to be wheelchair accessible.”
Surely though you cannot be serious.
Fin, blaming the council for the Dons’ failure to raise building capital to fund Loirston by selling Pittodrie is what the club chairman and the press want you to believe.
Cove Rangers had had the lease for Calder Park for 12 years. They had a deadline for delivery of September 2012, less than two weeks after the council meeting of August 2012 took place. No work at all had been carried out. The council was not convinced that development was going to take place. After 12 years of inaction, was a possibility, especially given the missed deadlines. On valuable council owned (that’s me and other Council Taxpayers of Aberdeen).
Calder Park would have provided the Dons with the second access to Loirston required by Planning. The council has said that they could start building as soon as the second access was agreed but that having taken back the lease from a club which had done nothing with it, despite assurances, negotiations would now have to be with the landowners (the council) rather than Cove, who did not appear interested in delivering to the terms of the lease. As a Dons season ticket holder in common with about 7000 others, I am also a city Council Taxpayer. My hobby should not be subsidised by poor use of commonly-owned assets, especially in these straitened times. The council has also been clear that the second access via Calder Park can be negotiated but that those negotiations would have to be with the council rather than a promise-breaking Highland League club which has had no trouble in spending money on development of a playing squad whilst continuing to play at the outdated and barely-adequate Allan Park. Both former Councillor Kate Dean and the current leader of the Council administration opposition were/are representatives of the area and appear to have made no moves to persuade Cove to fulfill their obligations.
On the day that the council came to this decision, it also delivered on the senior coalition party’s manifesto commitment to abandon plans for UTG. The “referendum” was demonstrably “non-binding”. Could the AFC chairman’s unprofessional outburst have had more to do with his frustration at that decision and its effects on any development at Triple Kirks rather than the council’s decision to act on behalf of its taxpayers, aided by coverage and spin in a sycophantic local press?
Where is the seed corn capital for the Loirston development from the sale of Pittodrie?
Why have Cove Rangers remained silent?
Why were Cove Rangers allowed to hold the lease of prime land for so long with so little action?
A lie can travel halfway round the world before the truth has its breeks on.
Cant help see the similarities between this and the current row in the USA, amongst those who would benefit from “Obama care” the universal medical insurance…
I don’t think the taxi service in Aberdeen is very good, I’ve often had quite bad experiences with taxi drivers. This has included being short changed by up to ten pounds and the driver driving off with my shopping still in the taxi, I personally would call this robbery.
I was reading about Israel a couple of months ago. I discovered that despite it being a middle eastern country, it has the kindest human rights laws towards its own people and that many people flee/take shelter there from the surrounding countries and even from Palestine. I’m sure the politics must be quite complicated, I hope one day there will be peace.
Hi Sean, As someone who has spent some time in Israel, albeit a long time ago, and who may have more reason than most to harbour resentment toward sections of the Israeli security services, I find the on – going vilification of the state of Israel and the extremely biased and one sided commentary of the pro -Palestinian lobby to be unreasonable in the extreme.
Whilst I have no knowledge of those involved in the staging of the specific and forthcoming presentation mentioned here, I generally find the majority of those actively involved in the Palestinian cause to be intellegent and highly motivated individuals whose unwillingness to consider events from an Israeli perspective often leaves me searching for an explanation which does not come close to anti – semitism.
I will try to take the time to attend the forthcoming event in anticipation of a refreshingly fair and informed presentation and/or discussion.
Let’s speak in abstract. Regardless of your view for the Israeli laws or the pro-Palestine activism, one fact remains: Israel is the occupier. Palestinians are being blocked, imprisoned, harassed and ill-treated at Israeli check points in the Westbank. In Gaza we don’t dare think about normal life having closed borders, lack of electricity and basic services.
I urge you to attend these events to understand the Palestinian point of view so that you are informed enough to make your own judgement. I would welcome your questions in the event.
You really should think of your sylphlike figure lass. All this bevvying up at Brewdog could wreck havoc with the waistline you know. Or am I just jealous because I can’t afford such luxury’s along with the fact I take exception to having to stand out in our balmy Aberdeen weather to have a wee puff?
Your comments in regard to unnecessary deer culls, support for animal charities and, most importantly, trying to help the less fortunate of our elderly are worthy indeed. It saddens me greatly that our elderly are held in disdain in those affluent times in The Granite City. We all had a granny, indeed without her none of us would be here, something conveniently forgotten by sections of society alas.
The Menie residents are also worthy of your support. No one likes a bully and Mr Trump can truthfully be described as such. Given he just pops over “The Pond” now and again, I can’t see why a wee wind farm should disturb him so and surely his golfers should be keeping their eye on the ball, not the windmills. No doubt oil supply boats and the Northlink ferry will have to be diverted in the fullness of time as they will, undoubtedly, detract from the golfer’s experience also. On a recent trip to Fraserburgh I noticed a single windmill either on, or adjacent to Trumpsville. Shock! Horror!! and there’s a fair few landward that must cause Mr Trump grave concerns also. What seems to be forgotten is, that in the fullness of time, those structures may help to power Trumptown and keep his leccy bills down. Just a thought.
There seems to have been a blizzard of “retrospective” planning applications submitted in regard to various deviations from the plans for Menie. Mere mortals would have been told to remove the structures built without consent post haste. Strange that such constraints don’t seem to apply to the super-rich. Perhaps the removal of retrospective planning applications from the statute book is the answer. That would solve any future problems. Either submit a full and accurate plan in the first place or don’t plan at all. The law of the land is supposed to apply to all also but seems to have been applied somewhat sparingly when it comes to our favourite naturalised Scotsman ( is there anything natural about the guy?)
Well thanks for the kind words Ron. I am putting on a few pounds, but I find running around Torry lighthouse and Nigg Bay once or twice a week helps, although I usually get stopped by the police who assume I must be a theif making a getaway on foot. The thing about quality brews, whether by the local team at BrewDog or other great crafters is that you don’t need to or want to drink gallons of the stuff, or at least I don’t. I genuinely love tasting and sipping the good stuff. Cheerio
And just think, had it not been for Sir Ian and cohorts, PVA could have had a brand new facility overlooking Union Terrace Gardens. It would have been occupied by now and hardly a dent in the public purse,
The Maybeshewill track you refer to is the absolutely fantastic ‘Not for Want of Trying’ which features the excellent monologue by Peter Finch from the film Network. Incidentally that was Maybeshewill’s 4th gig in Aberdeen.
I don’t mind this idea, could be fun, but ‘to help create a new world record and to help put Aberdeen on the map for festive visitors is desperately shite.
In case anyone is interested, there is a debate (argument) going on about CPZs in residential steets in Bristol. Interestingly enough the charges for their permits are significantly cheaper than ours.
Unfortunately my time in Scotland is limited and I have an important prior engagement which I had overlooked and cannot cancel. I really did hope to attend the event and may still be able to do so, albeit only for a short time and this may be inappropriate.
I’m sure there are many issues on which we would disagree but many more on which we would most wholeheartedly agree. I should add that I was not seeking to be sarcastic when I indicated my anticipation of a fair and informed discussion and I’m sure it would have been a great pleasure to have met you.
Israel are undoubtedly the occupier in the West Bank though I think it should be acknowledged that they voluntarily abandoned their occupation of Gaza and were rewarded with the election of Hamas, an organisation dedicated to the destruction of the Israeli state, who refuse to accept the right of Israel to exist and, of course, incessant rocket attacks. I also think it is worth remembering that the Israeli occupation came about as a result of a war waged against them, on all sides, by forces who were unequivocal that their aim was the annihilation or expulsion of all Jews within Israel. I think the phrase Nasser used was “drive every living Jew into the Mediterranean” I do, however, acknowledge that much of what you say is an accurate description of daily life both in the West Bank and Gaza and that this is unacceptable.
It would, of course, be futile to try to engage in any meaningful or detailed debate on this forum and I apologise if you feel I have, in seeking to respond to the points made by yourself, put you in a position in which you feel bound to address aspects of my response.
There is, I am sure, little doubt that we both want a just and lasting peace for the long – suffering citizens of Palestine and the wider region and I hope I will have the opportunity to meet you at some time in the future.
Last night’s AGM comment that negotiations are continuing with the council over Loirston all but proves that the chairman spat the dummy over UTG at the council meeting and tried to conflate the two discrete issues, swallowed whole by the public, being misled by the local press as usual.
It’s still the worst possible place to build a stadium as far as Dons fans are concerned but that’s a different issue.
Pallas were originally a covers band playing the NE dance circuit as Rainbow, but when Ritchie Blackmore took the name, briefly became Gulliver in 75, until deciding on Pallas Athenae, then abbreviated to Pallas.
Very talented, very hard-working and Graeme’s Rickenbacker was the envy of every bass player in every band from Cummingstown to Cumineston to Catterline.
Ann Kramer’s “Land Girls & Their Impact” is a good account of the Winen’s Land Army, all the better for the inclusion of anecdotes and first-hand tales of the toil and good times from former members.
I also found Carol Harris’s Women At War 1939-45: The Home Front excellent source material for something I was working on. Wartime Britain by Juliet Gardiner has also been recommended but I’ve yet to get a copy to give me further insights.
Angela Huth’s romanticised but entertaining book is worth reading too. The film of the book, starring the delightful Anna Friel and Rachel Weisz is also a good bit of escapism.
As somebody who has stravaiged through the Rothiemurcus Estate which has one of the largest areas of natural forest in Britain I am delighted to see that “Trees For Life” have got funding to carry on their good work at Dundreggan. Organisations like Trees For Life, The Woodland Trust and the John Muir Trust deserve all the help the can get.
Gweed job Trumpie wisna aroon fin they ploo’d up gowf courses durin WW2. Hivven kens fit he wid o made o a fyow pairs o Clydesdales pullin ploos teerin up his greens an fairways. He wid nae doot hae
complained tae Churchill.
First of all, I would like to point out I am not taking either side of the RSPB or the British Feral Goat Research Group. I must say I dispute some of the comments in this article as unfounded and utterly bizarre! Firstly the grey squirrels… they are not Scottish Wildlife, they are an introduced species from North America, they are outcompeting the native red squirrels and are also the carrier of the usually data squirrel pox which is having a devastating effect on red squirrels, so if you really want to protect the real Scottish wildlife why would we let the grey squirrels push the red squirrels out. Secondly the deer. Well I agree the comment about the CO2 is ridiculous. But think back to a time when Scotland was home to lynx, wolves and bears. Large predators that would have lived in a predator prey equilibrium, less deer, less predators can be supported, more deer more predators can be supported. Wipe out the predators, the deer population explodes, with nothing controlling the numbers. Hence the requirement to manage the population. Deer have a notorious habit of eating saplings and stripping bark, let the deer numbers explode, the forests will slowly disappear. The same goes for the goat, they are not native species and as some say, have not always been a part of the forests at Inversnaid. There is also strong evidence to support the fact that domestic goats have also been introduced to the feral population. I’m not saying we should just kill all the goats. I think it would be great to relocate them, but that doesn’t solve the problem. There will become a time (quite soon) when the establishments willing to accept relocated goats will be saturated with goats, the population at Inversnaid will continue to breed and the relocated goats will continue to breed and then where are all the goats going to go. If Scotland had it’s full compliment of predators, how long would a small population of goats last. Also the welfare issue, yes animal welfare is obviously the most important aspect of this, and it will always be the most important. So why is everyone so up in arms about the goats. I didn’t see this much fuss about the Badger Cull, which was completely ridiculous, a waste of money and time. All the research suggested it wasn’t going to work, yet still it went a head. Where was the mass hysteria over that. I didn’t see Facebook pages attacking the badger cull. I didn’t see petitions being circled about it. Talking about thousands of badgers being mass-slaughtered, compared to controlling an introduced goat population.
All I’m saying is, the priorities in my eyes are somewhat wrong. Look after the NATIVE wildlife before the INTRODUCED animals.
Thank you for replying. You raise several interesting points, but to start with, your claim ‘you didn’t see this much fuss about the Badger Cull…’ is to me bizarre: the story made tabloids, broadsheets, magazines, television, news headlines, etc. etc. with people such as Dr Brian May pointing out the absurdities. The quantity of badgers involved was very large; but does the quantity make any cull less important? The SNH/RSPB want to cull 50% of a 60-strong herd of goats, and the Feral Goat Research Group would say this issue is very important; they would also probably stress that they are working to establish that there is an indigenous goat herd in GB. As to the migration of animals, sometimes caused by humans on purpose or inadvertently / sometimes caused by natural forces – does the origin of any species really devalue its right to exist? I’d say no. If you agree that ‘animal welfare is obviously the most important aspect of this’, then what is your issue with the goat cull being highlighted? As to the deer issues, the landowners/managers are claiming (with some evidence) that the SNH desire to cull huge numbers of deer does not support their own observations and measurements of deer populations. At Tullos Hill, a herd of deer had been in small (60 or so) stable numbers for over 70 years: half of them were killed in order for a Liberal Democrat pledge of ‘a tree for every deer’ to be realised: on a hill with flammable gas issues, radioactive waste in its past, little topsoil, and a rocky terrain on a rubbish heap: the trees are unlikely to thrive (they haven’t in the past and cost the taxpayer £43,800 for the prior attempt). The ins and outs of this specific cull had absolutely nothing to do with deer welfare. I would love to see the bigger picture of the SNH/Forestry Commission agenda when it comes to animal populations laid bare.
All animal species lives are valuable – the grey squirrel problem is man made as are numerous others all over the world. I cannot undestand the RSPB’s stance on this, whilst I appreciate that their primary objective is to protect birds surely not at the expense of any other species indigenous or not, especially when they have been offered an easy ‘out’, relocation is surely the better option.
It is difficult to know whether to laugh or cry. Information concerning an investigation which never took place cannot be released for fear it may enlighten criminals in relation to methods of investigation and might undermine confidence in the front line of our system of Justice!!
I would argue that one cannot undermine something which does not exist. The world witnessed what was, in my view and the view of many others, the unjustified physical assault and arrest of two innocent civilians who were going about their lawful business in an exemplary fashion. Should there be information deemed to be unsuitable for release for fear that confidence might be even further undermined, the mind boggles at what this might be. Might there be evidence of secret torture chambers deep inside Queen Street with manacles, chains and racks complete with the names of Menie residents above them? Might there be photographic evidence of senior police officers baton – charging and using tear gas against Menie residents trying to return to their homes? Are there eye – witnesses who will vouch that the Chief Constable was seen flying over Menie in a Chinook shouting something about napalm and the morning air?
The refusal to release the information requested merely confirms what most of us already know.
Here is further info from John Robins of Animal Concern Advice Line, from a recent email – bottom line = 20 goats were culled :-
Many thanks to all of you who e-mailed RSPB asking them to suspend the goat cull at least until they had fully investigated all possible non-lethal alternatives, especially the offer from Scotland for Animals (SfA) and Hillside Animal Sanctuary to catch and rehome the goats. Special thanks to those of you who are RSPB supporters and told them you were not going to give them any more donations or cut them out of your Will unless they stopped the cull. I know that at least one person returned her RSPB Christmas raffle tickets saying she would not buy or sell them while the goat cull continued.
First of all the good news. At a meeting with SfA on Monday 9th December the RSPB agreed to fully investigate the possible alternatives to culling the goats. Congratulations to SfA and all of you who lobbied the RSPB and achieved this promise from RSPB.
Now the bad news. I’ve had a look through my correspondence with RSPB. I wrote to their Chief Executive on November 30th saying; “Do you not recognise that by killing animals you regard as pests you are little better than those who regard raptors as vermin and use lethal means to reduce their numbers? I know that some of your long standing supporters have objected to your cull of goats at Loch Lomond. Please listen to them and stop the cull now.”
On the 2nd December Stuart Housden, RSPB Scotland Chief Executive replied saying;
“Given that we have been making quite considerable efforts to explore alternatives, that there will be no stalking undertaken over the next few days and we will be looking at the situation again next week can I ask you to work with us on this and encourage your supporters to give us the time we need to find the best possible solution? My colleague Anne McCall and her team are handling this.”
On 4th December I asked Stuart Housden to cancel the rest of the 2013 cull and told him;
“ …. before I can ask our supporters to desist from lobbying RSPB on this I would need an undertaking that RSPB will suspend all culling at least until your discussions with Scotland for Animals, Hillside Animal Sanctuary and any other organisation offering a potential non-lethal option to the goat situation are fully investigated.”
Later that day Anne McCall of RSPB got back to me saying; “Until we have a workable alternative that process (the cull) will remain in place but if you or others can help us develop that workable alternative quickly then we will be in a far better position to review and possibly modify our management approach – obviously assuming the statutory agencies agree.”
I immediately replied giving several possible non-lethal options and ended by saying; “Again I ask RSPB to cancel the current cull and make time to fully investigate all the options.”
I think many of you will have received an e-mail from Anne McCall on Tuesday 10th December in which she stated that following their meeting with SfA on Monday they would be looking into alternatives to culling. She also said;
“The goat management work at Inversnaid to protect the internationally important site has come to an end for 2013. No further goat management is planned until September 2014. ”
At first reading I thought this was great news and that culling had stopped three weeks early. I asked if this was the case only to be told by Ms McCall that;
“It has ended as we have reached the target of 20 culled goats for this year.”
The RSPB were keen to get me to get you to stop protesting but they refused point blank to suspend the cull and not one goat was spared. I am very concerned that RSPB simply stepped up the culling operation to reach their kill quota before meeting with SfA to discuss the alternatives.
Another wee bit of good news. Animal Concern Advice Line is constantly dealing with culling, often by conservation charities and Government agencies. In recent years in Scotland all species of deer, grey squirrels, mountain hares and hedgehogs have all been culled by various charities and/or Government agencies. We even had to oppose a cull of wallabies on an island on Loch Lomond. Every day of the year seals and birds are being culled under Government licenses.
Last weekend our Trustees authorised me to establish a forum to try to pull together the knowledge, expertise and different organisations required to mount a proper campaign against the growing culling culture in Scotland and other areas of the UK. More about that next year.
Another whitewash, exactly what most people expected. Lies, lies and more lies.
I sincerely hope there is such a thing as Karma.
Well done Aberdeen Voice for an excellent piece of work.
The Scottish Distant Islands allowance and that old chestnut, the London Living Allowance sound fine in principle until you realise that often they are actually an incentive for folk to apply for jobs in those high cost areas rather than a help to those already struggling with Aberdeen’s high cost of living.
Then of course the prickly issue of those on minimum wage and low hours contracts arises. Should they also benefit from the high cost living supplement?
If UNISON members benefit, who pays for the “Pay Equality?”
Lots of issues.
Surely if cops need to goto a solicitor to be advised if something is criminal or not they should not be cops ?
what cops are dealing with it, is it the 2 idiots who arrested the journalists ?
Maybe the cops dealing with this are keen golfers and hoping for freebie season tickets for trumps golf course.
whats happened with the video ? could it be put in the public domain or televised in a future documentary ?
I’ve just had a short but sweet chat to Bruce Watson; he’s looking forward to coming back to play in Aberdeen. Expect amazing opening sets from STEVIE AGNEW, DAVE SHARP and SIMON HOUGH. There will be the favourites as well as material from the latest album, The Journey. Bruce sounded in good form, but is about to use his extensive experience of dealing with large crowds as he heads to Edinburgh to do some Christmas shopping.
A lot to chew over Susannah. Enough to get the blood boiling. No bad thing in this weather. I recall stories of council officials having to lug home, probably by taxi paid for by the public, crates of whisky supplied by developers and the like. Given in a friendly gesture to mark the festive season you understand. That was a little before the time you were writing about. And properties at remarkably generous prices made available to the lucky recipient who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Friends help. Not much changes and regrettably not corrupt officials.
Was myself wondering lately how a religious festival came to be so tacky and shamelessly commercial. If in any doubt listen/watch news items on Christmas, should that be xmas?, and a successful one is where shops have taken more from our pockets than in previous years.
Always a pleasure to hear from Lena, hyena about town. I’m sure you can’t be referring to a property builder who sent crates to the city planners some years back, and had a hissy fit at the P&J when it got out. He apparently was stewing, and threatened to pull any further advertising from the P&J if such a story broke again. As to Christmas; am busy making things for people, and the television was thrown out the window long ago, rock chick style. Have a happy. See you at the UTG train halting (?). Cheerio
Got to agree with you both. £mas has never been my favourite time of year. The fundamentals have been long lost in the rush to make a quick buck. A sad old world we live in indeed.
All the best to all for 2014. With the present government in power the rich are guaranteed to get richer while the poor fall off a cliff.
Excellent as usual. And I am still having a laugh over a second read of “Twas the night…..” I dont know how you keep the narrative rolling, but keep doing it. Have a restful Christmas! Casey Jones rules!
very apt for today’s conditions Mr Smith, and indeed the winds are stronger than the desire to successfully establish mature trees in quantity on Tullos Hill, and even mightier than Donald Trump’s desire to build a golf course right on the North Sea. Can’t wait to visit the course again soon. A very happy holiday to you and yours, Suzanne
So are you just angry about the size of it? Or the masses of content?
If it was a lightweight 30 page document summarising the main points of the aims of independence would you have been much happier? Or criticised that for not sufficiently detailing how things would likely work?
The negative tone of the article infers you are against independence but, like so many with similar opinions, doesn’t offer any counterargument, only dismissal of the content as ‘longwinded’.
Or, to summarise the article – “Independence won’t work because most Scottish people can’t or won’t read the book”
I’m sorry to say that I find this to be a rather poorly written, naive and tedious article written by someone who, in common with a large number of his unionist friends, appears to (knowingly?) miss the point of the independence debate.
So come on Aberdeen Voice, if you insist on publishing articles on what will be the most important issue for the people of Scotland during 2014 you’ll really need to raise your game way, way, above the level of this self-serving drivel.
“If all 5.295 million of us Scot’s ordered a copy the English would no doubt be made to pay”…. I presume you are referring to the population of Scotland? Do you think that all people living in Scotland with voting entitlement are Scots? That’s a bit racist to suggest only Scots can vote. And might i ask where you get your figure of 5.295 million from? You think that perhaps all new born babies should order a copy? Maybe people under the age of 10 should get a copy? You think we need more than 1 copy per household? You think people can’t download it? And why would the English pay for it? It’s produced by the Scottish government. If the Scottish government didn’t pay for it and it came out of the UK budget (which it doesn’t), why would only the English pay for it? You are obviously of the opinion that Wales and Northern Ireland are part of England.
I would write further with regards to the anti Scottish message contained in this article but don’t feel it’s worth my time.
Shocking that someone would be allowed to publish such rubbish in the face of the most important issue Scotland has faced for decades.
[ Personal insults removed. Aberdeen Voice seeks to accomodate a wide range of views. We very rarely refuse to publish articles, and never on account of the socio-political views of writers. Comments on articles and views expressed within, as you have contributed, are equally welcome provided those focus on the content and don’t descend into insults and namecalling. Aberdeen Voice also exists so that writers ARE ALLOWED to be published, regardless of any particular persons evaluation of the resultant piece – Moderator ]
Now let me see, I have posted articles in the Voice about multinational corruption, war, anti war, economics, history, wildlife, Marischal Square, parking in the city, body image, the Royal Mail flotation, country dancing, Crovie, witches, food hygiene, the Dalai Lamma, Fochabers and the First Zulu War, Belfast, Art Nouveau, windmills, renewable power, Camp Chic, Robert Burns, David Cameron, product placement, citizen photojournalism, the murder of drummer Rigby, badgers, the state of Aberdeen, race horses, the Sunday Post, Donald Trump, New Lanark, Brigadoon and even Oor Wullie.
Not to mention the sad issues such horse meat in your food and those sad folk who rely on state benefits and cannot now afford to keep a roof over there heads due to the politics of the land we live in.
Few readers have commented on the above 80 or so articles which is why it is such a joy to have provoked such a challenging response to this wee crit’ of Alex Salmond’s White Paper.
The Voice does not have an army of paid researchers as you will already know. The Guardian does. The BBC does. The Sunday Post does. Just saying, you understand …
Well done readers however for commenting on this vitally important issue which is obviously close to your hearts.
I find it sad however when “personal insults removed” has to be posted after a response by reader Mike. Reasoned argument and criticism are great. Insults might be less so.
Perhaps Mike would pen a piece about the “Scotland’s Future” White Paper for us all to read.
Thanks to Alex Salmond and his SNP, I am living in a freezing cold council house. So I’ve ordered a paper copy of “Scotland’s Future” to burn in the sitting-room stove, it might not provide much warmth but at least it will cheer me up.
Sean, I hear what you are saying but have to wonder whether Alex or the SNP are to blame. The new year is of course very welcome of course. I blame the Tories usually.
It is regrettable that you appear to have been subjected to personal abuse for having presented a measured and legitimate point of view. Unfortunately, there does seem to be a rather extreme fundamentalist mentality within the nationalist argument. This is normally characterised by references to those who seek clarity as doom – laden unionists and traitorous lackeys of the English.
Your apparent scepticism is fully warranted as the answers we were promised, in the White Paper, have most definitely not been forthcoming and the references to future “legislation” are meaningless, not least because the present Scottish Government can not speak on behalf of future governments over which they my have no control.
I think Culloden would make an excellent golf course. I could see it generating in the region of 10,000 permanent jobs and £60 Billion of income to the Scottish economy.
i saw them at lemontree as part of a tv documentary for east coast trains a great venue and now a new adventure i saw them about 6 weeks ago in a pub in clitheroe for free my journey will continue i have done in excess of 50 gigs after being introduced to them in a coastal cabin whilst serving in the falklands in 1985 i have a special collection of posters set lists photos t shirts, drumsticks, cds vinyls, and my next concert is in dumfries on 26 jan meeting up with my old raf mate who intoduced me to big country in 1985 i have not seen my friend for 27 years this wil be our 1st gig together, a kind of reunion but also a thank you for my love with this band, that eve to get some i fell in love with whats next maybe a tattoo, big country is in my blood i could make a god interview and the band know me personaly be nice for me and steve for some newspaper publication, a great story and a long time apart for me 56 concerts
thank you paul
Not thrilled with Iceland’s whaling and turning whales into beer either? Here are some wise words from Deborah Bonham’s facebook page which I saw on the same day this column was published: “A new year, a new petition! How on earth in this day and age are countries still whaling? It beggars belief what we are doing to this planet. Help convince Iceland that they need to stop and they need to stop NOW! Much love to all, Deborah xxx” Please sign. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/409/705/170/iceland-dont-kill-even-more-whales/?z00m=20700843
You have to wonder if they are going to fall foul of government and national security requirements, by default, by reducing the geographical redundancy to a point where a single failure event in one important area (e.g., central control room) could effectively cripple the force.
Hi, I am a little concerned that you are mixing up the appropriateness of Kitchener being used to commemorate the first world war and the war itself. The Kaiser was in control of a militarised and belligerent germany/prussia. Some even argue that the Kaiser was insane. Whatever, had the Kaiser gained the resources of all of mainland europe the who knows what nightmares might have followed? Britain had no choice but to fight to prevent such expansion of germany.
How the war was prosecuted is open to debate but in the face of an entirely new industrialised war many experts believe our war leaders did the best they could.
For the record I am not in favour of Kitchener being used in this way and think there are others more deserving.
I can certainly understand your concern Alexander but am unsure about the notion that a militarised and belligerent Germany Prussia led by an insane leader was at the route of that conflict.
That the prosecution of the war led to mass slaughter is undeniable. Your assertion that Britain had no choice but to fight is debatable.
Who from that period of time would you like to commemorate coin wise?
Hi, thanks for your reply. I didn’t mean to suggest that the cause of the war was all germany/prussia. However once germany had started actions britain had no option but to react or germany would have had all of mainland europe’s resources to power it’s ambitions. Many of those european countries had their own “empires” and those foreign resources would also come under the sway of a greater germany/prussia and threatening britains “empire”, I cannot see how conflict could have been avoided.
No one wanted “mass slaughter”.
I have signed a petition to have Edith Cavell on a £2 coin. I consider all this “to do” to be about Celebrate or Commemorate? I choose to commemorate as celebration of war seems wrong to me.
I would be interested to know what the mound of powder was, I have seen this before (on the ground next to a garden) and wondered why someone would have put it there.
Cheers Alexander. Edith Cavell seems a very cool choice in my opinion. Can you post the link here please since I am pretty sure that other Voice readers will want to follow your lead.
Sad as that may be, the deer and most of the other wildlife will move back into the area. When I was a landowner it was always sad to see neighbours and so called friends shooting and trapping local wildlife in the mistaken belief that was their right to do so.
Bad karma perhaps but that is the reality of the often selfish and unthinking world many of us live in.
The Dalai Lama has words for this failing.
“I love my cats but I hate what they do.”
I enjoyed reading this article, New York would be an amazing place to live. There was a diner called Florent that would have been nice to go to, but I think it’s closed down now.
Have to agree with much of what you say Suzanne. There is, however, one major difference between Aberdeen and NYC. One is a metropolis, the other a large town/small city, the funding of the latter heavily constrained by government. Now, if we only had a local income tax, instead of council tax, we’d probably have the best facilities in the UK, given the well above salaries commanded here and here a bouts. You’re comments on quangos are spot on though.
The argument about the tv licence fee rumbles on. While, like all large organisations, it has it’s failings the BBC has stood us in good stead for generations. The massive payouts to redundant senior staff were misplaced but the private sector has it’s fair share of those to – “Fred The Shred” springs to mind, to mention but one.
The “Beeb” has served us well over the years, exposing corruption and deviousness in government along with bringing to our attention bad practice in the public sector. It’s current affairs and documentaries, along with wildlife programming, are respected worldwide. You just have to watch US public service broadcasting to to see how lucky we are, and all for less than £3 a week!
Commercial tv is heavily constrained by the whim of advertisers while the BBC is free to report, unbiased, on those subjects which genuinely affect the populace and world affairs that sponsers would rather we know nothing of.
I, for one, don’t grudge the cost, comparable to a loaf of bread and four pints of milk, less than the price of a pint of beer in many establishments. Government would love to abolish/privatise the service, but we would be the losers in the long term. Masses of adverts and mundane programming or a quality service? Make your own choice.
Cheers Ron. Take your point. It’s easy to take issue with a publicly funded business though. The failure to protect vulnerable people from stage personalities is unforgivable though in my view as is today’s revelation that Auntie spends around £1m pa on hotel rooms in Manchester.
I could go on.
It damned well beggars belief that this is still going on! WHO has paid the bill for the latest “bold vision”? It wouldn’t be our couthie Sir would it? In whose pocket the P & J seems to nestle.
Onybody wi a grain o common sinse wid hae kent nae tae bigg on the flood plains near the River Don in Inverurie. Then again fan did ye last hear o developers using common sinse .
.
I live probably closest to the river on Birch Drive than anyone else. I have to say that the water from the river would need to flood the whole of Inverurie before it came anywhere near my rear garden. My house stands several feet above the river. At least they won’t be building at the rear of me! My concern is the poor condition of the farm animals on the land at the rear, with dead lambs floating down the Urie and calves and sheep up to their necks in mud!!
“Plantation owners”, you mean poor farmers trying to eek an existence out of the land to feed their families.
Your fixation with Sir Ian is bizarre at the best of times, to try and make a mockery of his charitable trust for helping poor families in Africa feed themselves not only oversteps the mark but is sick in the extreme, how dare you write about something you know nothing about, have you any idea the good the trust is doing?
Perhaps instead of spending your money on holidays to America and on fad beer you might send a good portion of it to starving people in Africa, then you might be in a position to question others on the matter.
Bill, do you seriously think Ian Wood gives up holidays and alcohol in order to give to charity? There is a massive difference in asking someone with an unfathomable disposable income to give a small percentage of their money away than someone with very little, you surely understand that?
When a billionaire publicly suggests that the some of the lowest paid people in his organisation, in the riskiest jobs, responsible for the entire production, working for a fraction of the highest paid, should take a pay cut then people should ask questions.
Charitable trusts in the UK are used by wealthy individuals to avoid paying tax. I have no idea whether this is true in Ian Wood’s charity or not, and I would very much welcome a report from Suzanne on it (although I suspect that might be a bit much to ask!).
Hello Rico and all – you may be interested to know that I’m not alone at looking into the finances involved. In the mean time, this little snapshot from the Charities Commission doesn’t tell the full story – but I still think it speaks volumes. Draw your own conclusions https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-charity-register/charity-extract/?charitynumber=sc037957
Are you seriously trying to have a go at the man over the charity work he and his family do? A new low for you and the Aberdeen Voice if you are.
Is this all because he suggested regenerating Aberdeen and you didn’t like his plans?
Where do you imagine the income is coming from for this charity still in its infancy?
Not one word of appreciation for the good the charity is doing, just a look down your snooty nose at it, do you imagine those getting food parcels from the Someone Cares charity this week will be grateful? guess they’ll never know where the money came from as the Wood family trust don’t generally publicise the good they’re doing.
How easy would it be for the family to emigrate abroad and live a life of luxury without giving away a penny, in Aberdeen they give their charity almost £100 Million and still have people being snide to them.
Shame on you I say for being so shallow and blinkered, I for one would like to think him and his family for helping those less fortunate than themselves, the mind boggles at the comments on here, I’m glad I’m not as bitter as you.
I assume the YPI referred to is the same Youth Philanthropy Initiative referred to in the WFT website http://www.woodfamilytrust.org.uk/current-programmes/YPI-Page2.php . There is a great deal of money of the £55,000,000 or so which sits in the WFT accounts at stake here: £3,000 per winner. As the website advises “YPI School Finals: Each year, at each participating school, the YPI programme culminates in a show case event whereby students are given the platform to present upon their experience, and in their teams compete for a grant of £3000 to award to the small, local, grassroots, social service charity they have researched” – so in other words children compete against each other with the charities they shortlisted, and the charities spend time and energy, some going away with apparently nothing at all. Perhaps we could just put them all in a pit to compete for scraps?
It’s not really anyone’s business how much of my time and money I give to good causes locally and abroad, but I’d happily match the percentage of my time and money given to good causes against that of the WFT.
Keep digging that hole Suzanne, you’re really making a fool of yourself now.
The YPI scheme which runs in almost every secondary school in the Country encourages 3rd year pupils to get involved in local charities, the pupils visit the charity they have selected and get the chance to work with them, not only do they learn the charities work they then get a chance to raise awareness of their chosen charity in a one off debate.
The charity does no work towards this at all, it’s all the pupils work, the most deserving charity is then given £3000 towards the work they do.
I don’t know about you but I see not one negative in this scheme, from an education viewpoint it gives teenagers an insight into the problems others face, the bonus is the big winner but no one is a loser, many of the children continue to work for their chosen charity and this is supported by the scheme.
If you perhaps tried doing some research into the Wood family trust you’d see it not only helped smallholding African farmers but also many local charities, only in the last fortnight through the YPI scheme the trust runs £3000 was awarded to the Someone Cares charity in Aberdeen, that’s a local food bank to help the poorest in our community, this is one of many similar donations the trust makes through the scheme, all charities are selected through local schoolchildren participating in YPI events.
Of course this doesn’t fit with your agenda of running the man into the ground so why print it, no one wants to hear the good that any wealthy man is doing in the community.
Local man does well and turns the family fishing supply firm into a global oil support leader, not only providing huge employment in Aberdeen and globally, in turn it makes him a very rich man, most would say rightly so for the gamble he took and the hard work he put in. The taxes his company make produce vast sums for the exchequer.
As he nears retirement he sets up a charity to give something back.
Aberdeen voice opinion, let’s dig deep and try and pick holes in an attempt to besmirch him and his family, blame him for the demise of the Rwanda rainforest in the process. It’s no wonder only the same 3 or 4 people comment each week, this site has turned into a joke, you certainly don’t speak for me nor I suspect the vast majority of all right thinking people in our great City.
Bill,
Sir Ian micht be a local chiel fa his deen weel, He micht be a billionaire, His firm micht provide lots o jobbies. His charitable trust micht be helpin fowk in Africa. Aat still disnae exempt the mannie fae scrutiny or criticism nor onybody else in a similar high falutin position fer aat maitter.
I agree Bob, I would also add that it doesn’t mean he can’t get praise when it’s rightly due, the article writer in her dislike for Sir Ian would never do this as it doesn’t suit her agenda, this is what I find distasteful.
Her reply on the YPI scheme in particular shows how blinkered she is, perhaps she’d be advised to speak to the children and teachers involved in the scheme before making wild assumptions.
No doubt you won’t agree, nor will the same regular people who reply, perhaps this is why more people don;t comment on these pages, anyone who disagrees is jumped upon, you only need to look at the guy who posted a link to a personality disorder page (and the mod who let it be posted) to see how biased the comment section is here.
Dear Bill, you are more than welcome to write a fact-based piece on Sir Ian Wood and it will be published. You do have a habit of stating your opinion as if it were fact when describing me or the moderators. If the comments section and the moderation were as biased as you state they are, one might wonder why we publish your many comments.
I’d add that every child involved is vastly proud of the work they’ve done with their charities, it instils a pride in them and goes beyond what could be learned in a classroom, perfect for kids soon to face the working World.
You go on running down the scheme though, it says a huge amount about you.
Sorry for the avoidance of doubt the £3000 is per school, every year, that’s a lot of £3000 cheques considering almost every school in the Country participates.
As for the vast amount of money in the trust, please remember the old adage, give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day, teach him how to fish and he’ll eat for his lifetime, this is the ethos of the trust, these things take time to set up and manage, it wouldn’t be prudent to just give away money as handouts, this charity is a forever thing and will be here long after Sir Ian has gone, keeping a healthy surplus in the infancy years is prudent.
Gosh Bill, I have rarely, if ever, witnessed such an emotional response to a satirical article. Of course, we are all entitled to our opinions and, similarly, to voice them as strongly as we see fit but the vehemence with which you have responded, and the language used, is, in my view, extremely unbecoming, particularly when it appears to have been provoked by, what is after all, a very narrow and relatively insignificant part of an informative and entertaining piece which, in my view, does the author great credit. Indeed your use of the terms ” fixation” “sick” ” new low” and “bitter” are not indicative of a balanced point of view. Personally, I greatly enjoy the weekly articles by Ms Kelly and admire her indomitable desire to provide an alternative to the sickeningly deferential Aberdeen Journals who have a tendency, not unlike yourself apparently, to canonize and grovel to “tycoons” such as Sir Ian Wood on a regular basis. Do you really think it is a credible and tenable position for Sir Ian to accumulate and maintain massive wealth from an industry and then complain when workers seek to make more money for themselves or do you think it is outrageous hypocrisy?
Unlike yourself, were I to make one small criticism of Ms Kelly’s article,it would be that the criticism of Sir Ian is, in my view, a little timid. This, after all, is a guy who was only too happy to hand out honorary titles to the most vulgar of all nouveau – riche billionares, apparenly as a reward for destroying a valuable and unique part of our countryside and destroying the lives of local residents for no good reason other than because he could. For this alone he deserves much more criticism than he has received.
Your reference to a “local man does well” and Sir Ian’s “family fishing supply firm” did make me laugh however. The little family firm which Sir Ian inherited and ran was a multi – million pound operation which maximised it’s profits partly due to working practices and conditions which, even by the standards of the day, were unacceptably exploitative. Such practices made for a seamless transition from fishing to oil as the majority of the fishermen, who had helped his father and himself to amass an already considerable fortune, had been employed as “casual labour” and therefore received no redundancy package or any of the other benefits which, even then, would normally have been paid to workers who had lost their jobs. Of course Sir Ian did not create this system. He, like any other brave entrepreneurial opportunistic capitalist, merely maintained and exploited it. Perhaps he would like to resurrect such a system for offshore workers thereby make life easier for large corporations.
Sir Ian Wood has been extremely vocal in telling us what is good for our city and has tried to force his own vision on a not terribly willing citizenry. In doing so, he has received the most biased press coverage seen anywhere in the world, outside of Putin’s Russia, since the arrival of the duly anointed vulgar billionare mentioned above, yet you appear to take great offence when a local writer has the temerity to rebuke him for his unseemly criticism of offshore workers seeking to earn more for themselves and their families.How very dare you!!!!
Dear Bruce, thank you for taking the time to make this comment; I appreciate it. And thanks are due as well to the slightly unhappy poster who made your comments possible.
I am guessing Bruce that you are not a relative of Sir Ian. Tally ho, cheerio, etc. Old Susannah
Alas no relative Suzanne. Sir Ian appears to hail from the tall, rich, gifted and successful Rubislaw Woods whereas I am surely a product of the short, down at heel, talentless, no – hoper Summerhill variety. Still at least he’s not bitter eh?
Excellent response to Bill Stephen’s diatribe by Bruce Wood. I did enjoy reading it. I posted a connection to Anthony Baxter on Aberdeen Voice FB page and a review of “You’ve been Trumped”. I do really like what Roger Ebert says..”These days the nobility has been replaced by billionaire bullies who continue to screw us serfs.” We certainly have a couple of them locally. So Mr. Stephen keep tugging that forelock!
And you keep tugging your forelock to the author here every week, no matter what rubbish is printed.
Not one word of appreciation from any of you for the charity work his family trust are doing, I’m Aberdonian born and bred, unlike most of the people on here, I for one am proud that a fellow man in my City is helping the poor of our World.
I’d hazard a guess you didn’t receive a food parcel this week courtesy of Sir Ian? Perhaps if you did you’d appreciate him more.
This rich equals bad attitude on here is bizarre, no doubt all posted from nice semi detached houses in the burbs.
With the greatest of respect, your opinions might be more sympathetically heard if you refrained from insulting, labelling and making ridiculous assumptions about others. Some of your remarks here are not only bordering on the xenophobic but are, I assure you, factually incorrect.
The auld saying, “the mair you hae, the mair you want,” springs to mind. Sir Ian is no different from most large employers. They gain their wealth from the hard work of their employees, most of whom are simply treated as revenue earning units to be dispensed with the moment their productivity declines. It’s called “capitalism.” Sad old world we live in isn’t it.
that is some video Sean – I too hope the fur is fake (bet it is). On the subject of BrewDog, they have a series ‘Hello my name is…’ which has included Ingrid, Sonja and Mette Marit – and now Hello my name is Vladimir. Each has a major berry infusion; cloudberries, blueberries, etc. My favourite was the Sonja until I tasted the Vlad. Once you’ve had Vlad, there is no going back. If it’s not back in the bar soon, it can be ordered online. (yes, I have shares -5 now – bought over time when I saved my pennies. I love beer, I love they way they do beer and their style. I love how they’ve changed the game and how they’re employing a couple hundred people.)
I remember when Aberdeen City Council used an image of Annie Lennox in one of their promotional booklets for Ian Wood’s Square at UTG, they did this without permission also. In my opinion they are the worst local authority there is.
as for me, I remember being invited to come and cover the (excellent/creative/interesting) House of Annie Lennox exhibition at the art gallery. We were told we could take photos. Alas! As soon as I got back to my computer later that day, there were some IMO frantic messages not to use any of the photos I’d taken, as there was no permission for the show to be photographed. While that was something of an organisational shambles, someone somewhere in the city knew about copyright/intellectual property, as compared to the present. Watch this space – there are more such allegations emerging of photographers’ work being appropriated without consent. Anyone with such a story is welcome to get in touch.
I met Annie some years ago at an event with the royals. There was no sniffy “this is mine” image stuff to be honest. Her only comment was “you’se had better be good” as I recall.
were you part of the SURF group which put on the exhibition in 17? They worked together as a group for quite some time to make the show. What open show did you apply to, or were you part of the group? When you say ‘you reap what you sow’ I take it you are referring to the professional media people who published work without getting prior approval first.
Hello Duncan – my reply is pretty clear; I myself was wondering why you needed to explain that your ‘images are free for the use of the Voice’ – everyone’s images are free for the voice. Since the story is about work being used without the creators’ consent given, it seemed to me sensible to explain that not only are your images for free for the use of the voice, but everyone whose work appears is unpaid, but credited, and gives authorisation for work to be used in advance.
I am one of the photographers listed above.
Until I read this article I didnt know that 2 of my images were used nor which ones they were.
I was only told of the existence of this booklet by one of the other photographers.
With the advent of digital technology many more are creating, using and sharing copyright works and awareness needs to be raised to help users ensure best way of dealing with this in the circumstances to avoid misunderstandings and upset to rights owners and even potential lawsuits (see http://www.bllaw.co.uk/services_for_businesses/intellectual_property/news_and_updates/no_innocent_infringer_hoffman.aspx. Charities and non-profits cannot assume they are exempt from or do not need to consider copyright legislation!).
There is a great deal of free advice and information out there on ensuring clear agreements are in place, rights protection, copyright, licensing and how to grant limited rights to share e.g. images/photographs online whilst also protecting and retaining other rights (see http://www.creativecommons.org licences).
Own-it is a fantastic organisation for anyone producing creative work and photographers can join http://www.own-it for free and access their fantastic podcasts and fact sheets which cover many subjects including “Making a living from photography!, “Keeping it covered – licensing for photographers”, Photographing public spaces” and “I’m a photographer – what do I need to know about IP?”
#copyrightawareness is increasingly important in the digital age and anyone wishing to using third party works may be putting themselves (or their employers) at risk if they fail to check such use is authorised or licensed. Leaders and managers need to assess risks and ensure awareness is raised among staff.
The UK Intellectual Property Office (www.ipo.gov.uk) also has great free tools and information for learning about and understanding IP.
I agree with the comment above and I am happy to see the article going viral online.
I would like to add another useful sources of information’s, which could help those affected to claim their deserved compensation for the illegally used images.
http://bit.ly/1nrO9Uo – This guide have many good tips and examples, which I used to get the compensation when The Seventeen gallery founded by the Aberdeen City Council used my image without my knowledge, permission and appropriate payment.
http://artists-bill-of-rights.org/ – The Artist Bill of Rights “promotes the adoption of a set of ethical standards for competitions and appeals to which creative works are submitted”
On this site you can find many really helpful guides on how to distinguish fair competitions from those which are exploitative and damaging for the creative industries.
Those guides are very useful for both: the creative’s and the organisers.
Compensation:
If you aren’t sure what are the current prices for the use of photographic content you can have a look at this websites:
http://www.londonfreelance.org or http://bit.ly/1bukmur – treat them as a guides to calculate the scale of the compensation. As you aren’t a stock photographer and your pictures are unique and wasn’t offered to thousand possible buyers- actually they weren’t offered for sale at all- you may probably consider to set up the prices bit higher than those on the Getty or Freelance Fee Guide website.
I mentioned the issue of the competitions above as this is something what needs to be brought to the public attention as well.
Aberdeenshire Council and Be Part of The Picture are running a photography competition called BELONGING TO ABERDEENSHIRE which isn’t looking great when it comes to the rights and benefits of those who are submitting their images.
It has come to my attention that the T&C of the BELONGING TO ABERDEENSHIRE are in a direct opposition to the aims and mission of Be Part of The Picture. Those aims are:
“The Be Part of the Picture programme aims to build local economies and community pride through promoting the culture and creativity of Aberdeenshire.
Belonging to Aberdeenshire is one of the ways the programme is engaging with local communities…”
Excerpt from the BELONGING TO ABERDEENSHIRE T&C:
“As a condition of an image being awarded the Winner in its category, successful applicants will be expected to:
• Assign rights in connection with the image, without payment, to Aberdeenshire Council so that the image can be premiered in a book to commemorate the Belonging to Aberdeenshire project. This will require a guarantee from the photographer that the image will not be published or shown publically before the Belonging to Aberdeenshire book is produced (Summer 2014) ”
“As part of the project we would like to invite you to participate in a competition that will culminate in the production of a photographic book showcasing places in Aberdeenshire’s landscape and environment…”
I guess that one of the purposes of the planned book is to attract the investors and visitors to the Aberdeenshire- therefore I am very surprised why the contributors aren’t offered a fee for the use of their images in the book and their rights are to be taken away.
It is highly unethical to look to obtain a full copyrights from the creators of the images which would be used to promote the region. In my opinion this isn’t a best way to build local economies and community pride and for sure not the best way to engage with the communities.
By obtaining a full copyrights to the submitted images they are not giving the possibility to its authors to use them in the future and to benefit from them. I think this would damage a local economy rather than create one. It will also discourage professionals like myself to take a part in the activities organised by ACC in the future.
I contacted Artists’ Bill of Rights and asked for their opinion. One of their members had a look at BELONGING TO ABERDEENSHIRE rules and wrote back to me saying this:
“Dear Blazej
It is rather strange that Aberdeenshire Council feels that it is appropriate to expect hard-pressed creatives to give up their rights and income to aid the promotion of Aberdeenshire. I wonder if their council employees are being expected to work for nothing too. May I suggest that you point them to the ABoR website. There are helpful guidelines designed to assist organisations such as them to run photographic competitions that do respect the rights of creators.”
To my knowledge there is plenty of other ways in which you can run a competition in non-exploitative manner. Aberdeenshire Council could perhaps look for a different type of the license which could be beneficial for all involved. It is highly disappointing that Aberdeenshire Council officials chose the easiest and most damaging way to run this competition. As a Council-funded body, I would have thought that they would be more careful to follow ethical standards, especially considering that Aberdeen is branded as a Fair Trade City.
I believe that by bringing those issues to the attention of the public and highlighting what could be improved I am helping Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire Council’s and the creative’s living and working in the region. I hope that this would help to create a better environment for the people who they are aiming to support.
I hope that the Aberdeen City Council officials are reading our comments and taking them into consideration- I would be very worried if that’s not the case.
All Russia have done is outlaw promoting homosexuality to minors, I dont get what the big deal is? Most response`s are more marketing ploys than any real protest? I still dont get it 🙂 is it illegal to be gay in Russia? On the news I see gangs of ppl going around beating up gay ppl in the street, but isnt that a seperate issue? Nobody ever got beat up in this, or any other country for being gay?
I have no issue with Gay ppl, whatever floats your boat! but whats the big deal?
Hello John, I’ve attached a link or two which spell out the problems in depth. The government has painted legislation with a very broad brush for people in ‘non traditional relationships’ and the possibility of having children removed from such ‘non traditional families exists for one thing. The government seems to be fomenting an anti-gay movement. No one obviously should be beaten up in any country for their sexual orientation. Do have a look at these links for further info on this issue, but people are being denied basic human rights. Thanks for your comment
Would you even have an opinion on the Menie golf course if it wasn’t a rich well known person behind it? I respect how he’s turned some ugly scrubland into a World class course, I don’t play golf but fair play to the guy.
Now a real crime is away to happen with the wind turbines being plonked on our coastline, imagine if Mr Trump wanted to build them, the local activists would be up in arms as would this publication, because he opposes it they say not a peep, that tells me all I need to know about their agendas, hypocrites going on about the environment when it comes to a golf course being built there but nothing said about this.
I honestly despair at the mentality of some people, they’d rather cut of their nose to spite their own face.
3 homes were slightly affected by the Trump course, we never heard the end of it from the local lefties, the WHOLE village of Blackdog opposes the windfarms and will be directly affected by it, not a peep.
I’m not even going to start on the cost of these heavily subsidised eyesores, I’m not even going to mention the REAL damage they will do to the environment and marine life, I’m just pointing out how ugly some people and their personal agendas look in this whole affair.
While the AV welcomes all debate from both sides of the fence on any given subject. I feel I must point out 2 innacuracies in your comment.
Firstly the whole of Blackdog village was not against the windfarm as such. They were against the building of the electicity substation on the grounds it presented a health hazard because of possible asbestos disturbance. The Aberdeenshire Council agreed with them and turned down the application to build the substation purely on these grounds. Nothing to do with whether or not the windfarms would have spoiled the Blackdog villagers view.
Secondly “3 homes were slightly affected by the Trump Course.” Clearly you have NOT spoken to the families concerned otherwise you would have found out just how badly they have been affected by Trump and his cohorts..
I also cannot understand how you can still show support for a man who in an interview with The Irish Times said that the development of windfarms was a disaster for Scotland like Lockerbie.However perhaps on this point I am willing to concede you might have not known about this as it was not reported in the Trumpophile local rags{what a surprise} yet when the article appeared in the Scotsman it caused anger among it’s readers who took to the web to condemn Trump for uttering what most people would describe as a crass and insensitive remark. I would point out that other
stories about Trump have appeared in the Scotsman, the Herald and Sunday Herald and on the Internet which the “P&J” and the “EE” seemingly were unwilling to publish.
I can assure you the Blackdog village is united in its opposition to not only the sub station but the entire project, who in their right mind would want these damaging things scarring the coastline.
I like many enjoy watching the marine life that comes near our coastline here, do you know the effect these uneconomic things have on the likes of Dolphins and Whales?
I’m not sure about your fixation for the local press, I never buy them nor read them so can’t comment.
Can I ask you Bob, if Mr Trump had never came to our area do you believe the stance towards the windfarms would be different from our local activists?
hello there Bill Stephen. Glad you enjoy watching the marine life that comes near our coastline. Kind of how I feel about Nigg Bay and the Torry coast. Cheerio
“The trouble with wind farms is that they have a very large spatial footprint for a piddling little bit of electricity. You would need 8oo turbines to produce the output of a coal-fired power station.”
Sir Martin Holgate, Chief Scientist at the Department of the Environment of the British Government.
I meant to give a prime example in my previous comment of Trump’s hypocrisy and the local papers determination to protect Trump’s reputation at all costs.A few years ago the local papers were full of The Donald’s support for expansion at Aberdeen Airport yet failed to report that Trump was a vociferous opponent of the building of a second runway at Palm Beach International Airport on the grounds that the noise and pollution from the planes taking off from this new runway would affect his nearby Mar-a-lago estate and members- only beach club. Similar tactics to that which he has employed against windfarms which he claims shall spoil the view from his Menie development despite it being said that the turbines shall be close to one and a half miles offshore and not ON our coastline as you suggest.
The myriad of offshore supply boats and other vessels anchored at any one time in the bay pose a far more visible intrusion in my opinion.
Bill
The WHOLE of blackdog is not against the wind turbines. i have friends who live in blackdog that would benefit from work for these turbines.
If you think so much of marine life at blackdog why don’t you make yourself useful and go dig up all the oil thats polluting the area for the last 20 years.
Ps – some years ago someone wanted to give me info on the pollution and the politics behind the scenes. They abruptly changed their minds. I’d love to hear from anyone (in confidence if they wish) about the serious pollution issues there
Once these eyesores are up and running not one local job will be created.
I can’t believe that people really want these things scarring our coastline and damaging the marine life, the reason we don’t hear any opposition to them is down to one thing, Mr Trump doesn’t want them, I just find that a bizarre stance to take, the two things are not inclusive.
I read on another forum someone saying he wouldn’t be surprised if Mr Trump was actually behind the wind farm, I’m not into conspiracy theories but would not be surprised at all, what chance of something like this happening here without it being hugely opposed, he would have played a blinder if true.
Dearie me Suzanne, have you no compassion in your body? The poor man has invested millions (so we are told) and created thousands of jobs (or was it dozens?) and his little venture might cost him dear in the long term. Such a shame.
Never mind, if the expansion of Aberdeen Harbour goes ahead we’ll have “real” jobs, with excellent wages that will actually benefit the area in real terms. Will kinda spoil my leisurely strolls along The Coastal Path but, hey ho, rather see folk in work contributing to a new, independent Scotland and the big windmills in The Bay will help keep the lights on to.
I can’t fail to agree with all you say. Aberdeen is not over-run with beggars, as some would have us believe. Stronger legislation is simply unnecessary.
You correctly pinpoint that many of these individuals have mental health issues. Given one in four of us will have mental health issues in our lifetime and the fact that NHS services in that regard have been deprived of adequate funding for generations, the situation can only get worse. The near collapse of services at Cornhill Hospital in recent times due to the increased workload and staff shortages rather proves the point.
Each time I pass one of those individuals reduced to begging I think to myself, “there,but for the grace of God go I.” A change of heart on this issue by certain sections of the community would not go amiss, Councillors included.
I’ve spoken to two homeless people this week; the Council doesn’t seem to want to accept its responsibility in homing and feeding those who need it – and who should have protection under the law. Some argue that there are ‘professional’ beggars, but surely our professionals are able to tell whether or not someone is in need of food, shelter and safeety? Outlaw begging? fine – once you have homed those who need it – and help them get back on their feet
you wont like my reasoning tho`, so will try to put it in a way that doesnt offend 🙂
Consider this scenario,
There is a Gay couple living next door, they seem/are nice ppl, they have a pet dog, they always say hello, and christmas cards are exchanged each year. The world is a happy place and everything seems/is normal. They are just another couple journeying through life best way they can, same as you.
If a Russian mob was to turn up trying to cause conflict we would all be the first to rush in and help defend them yes?
Great,
Now what if they started marching up and down the street with a megaphone telling you how great life is being different every other week, Still rosy?
When your Straight, gay ppl are easy to get on with but some of them, and I believe a small minority, feel the need to continually validate their sexuality and this can be tedious, in fact I think the “market” may be saturated
Isnt this the line being held by the Russians Gov? I`m seeing, being gay is fine, why not keep the noise down a little 🙂
Hope this doesnt offend anyone.
I cant defend removing children from loving homes tho`.. :/
Thank you Suzanne for yet another entertaining reminder of how planning laws, local and national democracy, protected status of our most valuable and unique natural environment and the human rights of our fellow citizens were sacrificed for absolutely nothing. An under – used golf course, soon to be re-named Atlantis, will be all that will remain to remind us of the folly of the celebrity – struck politicians who bought the illusion and the fool’s gold offered by Trump.
That Trump played at building skyscrapers during his childhood suggests that Messr’s Milne and Spence might have played similar games with houses and hotels during their formative years. I wouldn’t wish, however, to hazard a guess at what Willie Zanker, or even Willie Stephens for that matter, might have played with.
Same old names week after week rounding on anyone with an opposing view, of course If I attempted to abuse others it would never be published, quite rightly so, seems the same rules don’t apply in reverse.
Not one argument disputing me saying if it wasn’t for Trump opposition of the wind farm would be widespread, instead silly childish digs,it says a lot about this publication, Aberdeen voice indeed.
Refreshing to read an article which addresses the issues around the narrow subject of begging, including it’s various causes,but which also refers to the dangers of deep divisions which can lead to the persecution of minorities. All the more enjoyable when provided by a clearly well informed source.
I have no idea is the answer to your question Bill. Perhaps some would some wouldn’t. You had better ASK the people who you class as “local activists”. Are you speaking about all the people in the Aberdeen and NE. area. who are NOW against Trump because if you are then I think you shall have a helluva lot of people to ask. I personally know a number of people who were pro Trump at the beginning but have completely changed their mind not because of Trump’s stance against windfarms but because of his business ethics and his treatment of the Menie families. My fixation with the local press as you put it is purely down to the fact I used to work for them when they were still highly respected publications. It saddens me greatly to see what the “P& J” in particular has become-A mouthpiece for Trump and other big business concerns in the N.E. The AV tries to give the other side of the story.If you don’t like what people write fair enough-that’s your choice but whether it is your intention or not you come across as someone who sees those who are anti -Trump as some sort of left wing low life who are against Trump simply because he is rich. His financial situation is immaterial. It’s his actions and steamrolling tactics since he came to the NE which upset folk.
Not completely sure what your point is Jonathan but I’m sure you mean well. No matter what the council or indeed any other body do, there will always be folk who live on the margin.
John Bird, Tricia Hughes and Mel Young did little for the homeless by “allowing the Roma’s” to sell the paper.
Sadly I was part of this process in Scotland and I am often troubled by what we did.
Rather than arrest or trivialise street beggars, I wonder if a better approach might be to bung them £100 pw just to stay off the streets.
I’m more than happy to dispute what you have to say Bill but you declined to engage with me last time, apparently because there was insufficient space between paragrahs for you, but I’ll try again.
To begin with, your posts have been abusive, particularly toward the author, from the beginning, so you deserve everything you get and more. You have made a whole range of non evidence based assertions and allegations based, in my opinion, on a combination of ignorance, paranoia and inability to identify or understand the relevant issues.
Your so called “argument” that there would be widespread opposition to the wind farm, were it not for the Trump opposition, is simply another of these wild assertions which include no logical basis with which to engage in rational debate. Your insistence on relying on a clearly prejudiced and warped instinct rather than any form of informed or intellegent opinion is symptomatic of your apparently incurable cerebral malaise. In short Bill, you’re just not very bright.
Should you feel up to providing any logical, rational or evidence – based argument, at any time, please do not hesitate to share it with me and I will be pleased to help you out.
I must say I’m glad to see the back of him, he has caused nothing but grief since he first stepped off of his private plane. It was bad enough that he destroyed a beautiful, living, eco system, but it now appears that it was all for nothing.
I bet Mr salmond feels like a bit of a twat now!
I absolutely hate Alex Salmond and his SNP for allowing Trump to damage my homeland. Like many Scots I will never vote for them or for Scottish Independence because of this.
I am curious as to how Trump will respond to the modified wind farm development about 5km from his Irish Doonbeg course? He cannot say he didn’t know about it (he would be a fool if he did) but if he is happy to let it go ahead without complaint, then it will prove that his complaints about the offshore Aberdeen wind farm were just posturing.
As Martin Ford says, the job creation potential was grossly overstated. the hundreds and houses and hotel were to pay for this project, now they are not going ahead (apparently), Mr Trump will be severely out of pocket. Will he have learned anything? Doubtful. The exit strategy seems to be to sell off land for housing development to the highest bidder. Given the planning permission for housing was linked to the other developments, let’s hope Aberdeenshire blocks this. Enough damage has been done.
This is a well written, thoughtful and informative article. There are many humane alternatives to begging than criminalisation. There would be no need for begging if every citizen was provided an unconditional basic income. http://basicincome2013.eu/
The whole world apparently Sean 🙂 … No, it’s half a golf club … he lost the ither half when a turbine chopped it in two …. apparently he only just managed to get the club between the blade and a sparrow in time tae save the wee thing. Rubbin his hands noo, a £2,000 bill is reportedly on it’s way tae the RSPB for services rendered in the interests of preservin wildlife … and anither bill for a new set o’ golf clubs 😀
Ford, the edjits that wanted to destroy Union Terrance Gardens, the bams that supported the wind farms, a lack lustre, lazy council (who has done NOTHING in 35 years to bolster the European oil Capital) and other varied neeps who think that Glass and Concrete is the way forward – you collectively are the true enemies of the people.
Your pathetic backward thinking has reduced this city to a JOKE.
The other edjits that wanted to destroy Union Terrance Gardens, again for MONEY.
The true enemies of the people in the lack lustre, lazy council (who has done NOTHING in 35 years to bolster the European oil Capital) and other varied neeps who think that Glass and Concrete is the way forward – you collectively are pathetic backward thinking neeps that has reduced this city to a JOKE.
Interesting article, having been registered homeless for 2 years, its not an good place to be in, you feel insecure, worthless and have what is sometimes refereed to as a feeling of anomie or normlesness. It was after a nervous breakdown I ended up in such a predicament and can happen to ‘anyone’. Cornhill Hospital put a roof over my head till I was well enough to be discharged, and even then I had to wait in the ward or mainly at my dads for a year extra for A.C.C. to house me, mental health patients are not a priority in the minds of those in such positions of power and would rather brush the lot of us under the carpet. Begging was something i was fortunate enough not to need to do, but know some of the beggar’s in Aberdeen that I talk to and share smokes. Its terrible to see, I don’t get it in a City with so much potential and it does have the means to help, it turns its back on those in need with out good reasoning. ‘Why is this happening?’ Surely the Police too have better things to do than pick up beggars of the street, though could be a step in the right direction if legitimated in a much more positive manor as said. The Homeless are vulnerable and need our help, not locking up in my humble opinion…
Great that this has improved, when I last saw it in 2007 it was a pretty awful spectacle. Mind you the acoustics in the Music Hall may have been unhelpful. Then it consisted of an amateurish caste with poor lighting and choreography to boke for. Again, great that it has made the grade. Nice review and good images.
Sean,
Sadly the other main parties were as much in favour of Trump as the SNP were. Jack McConnel as Labour First Minister made Trump (and some of his minions) Global Scots for their contribution to Scottish Tourism and LibDems and Tories were vocal in their support.
And you’d be hard put to find one of them saying ‘we got it wrong’.
You are right to state that the other parties were in favour of the Trump proposal. You are also right to say that the process was kicked off by Jack McConnell and that all parties should accept a degree of responsibility. What cannot be denied, however, is that the SNP Government intervened in an unprecedented and undemocratic manner and exploited a technicality, that is the technicality which they discovered allowed for an application to be “called in” only if the calling in process was implemented prior to the applicant receiving formal written notification of the refusal. This meant that they had to move quickly and my goodmess didn’t they just?
To be honest, there is nothing wrong with a rich landowner, even one as slimy as Trump, making an application to build whatever they see fit on their land, and a golf course, particularly one which might bring tourists and employment to the area, does not, on the face of it, seem like an unreasonable proposal. The real issue here is that the applicant sought to build on an SSSI, which was contrary to the Local Plan. This meant that, even if they had wanted to, the Committee could not grant permission to proceed. Indeed, as I understand it, there was an initial motion moved to refuse the application and only two amendments, one to defer to give the applicant the opportunity to amend their application excluding the land within the SSSI and another, quite bizarrely, to defer the decision to Council officers to make the decision instead of the Councillors. The second amendment was defeated on a vote leaving a choice between deferral and refusal. Given the strident stance taken by the applicant to the effect that it was their way or no way it is hardly surprising that the Councillors voted, in accordance with normal procedure, to refuse, thereby giving the applicant the opportunity to reconsider and resubmit.
Within days, a very private meeting was held between SNP Government First Minister Salmond and the applicant, following which the technicality was very quickly identified and exploited by the SNP Government on behalf of the Trump organisation. Yes, all parties were in favour and none of them come out of this with any credit but only one First Minister and one party took the decision which, in my opinion, makes a mockery of our so called democracy and reveals clear corruption at the heart of Government.
I have no party political allegiance but only the SNP rode roughshod over local democracy and only the SNP led a bullying billionaire to believe he was bigger than an entire nation.
To be fair, I think the ref had already marked Celtic’s card after a couple of ‘meaty’ challenges went flying in before the sending off. The red card itself could have gone either way. It could be argued that Pawlett was actually running away from goal and that van Dijk was neither the last man or had prevented a clear scoring chance. I have to admit to being somewhat mystified about Aberdeen’s ‘tactics’ after the restart. They started knocking the ball around the back, inviting Celtic to come at them. I had a feeling that this might prove to be our downfall and it very nearly was. At times, the Aberdeen players looked like they’d never seen a ball before, let alone be cruising at 2-0 with an extra man.It all made for a very nervy second half and Tate looked out of his depth at times, so it was no surprise….nay, it was a RELIEF when he was substituted. Logan too deserved to be hooked. I felt he did okay in the first half but looked jaded in the second. The timely substitutions made a huge difference and most likely were the difference between taking one point or all three.
Martin Ford more than deserves a chivalric order (and a senior one at that), for all he has had to put up with, from the Trump Organisation and Aberdeenshire Council. He is a very brave, honourable and decent man.
I can sympathise with the shock and horror of finding out that phone-interception was in fact illegal, but still mystified by the thinking behind treating an ex-con to a lunch at the RAC club in Pall Mall with the intention of offering re-employment?
Ha ha, you wouldn’t say nasty. They are a bunch of elitist morons who just steam roll anything they want through. The residents of Garthdee should ignore all tickets and let the court costs mount up. RGU should not have been allowed to build up here. Yet again nothing for the kids to do except take drugs. Which is what they do around here. Total joke this city from Garthdee to the Airport, what a laugh.
Your article contains an error, the gardens referendum was not split down the middle, the yes vote in favour of the City gardens project got a clear majority, if the yes vote get a similar majority in this years referendum I’ll be over the moon.
I completely exaggerated this result, and I am heartily sorry. Those in favour of the granite monstrosity numbered 52.4% in the final vote. Those who wanted to keep their common good land, the only green space in the city centre without tombs in it, numbered 47.6%. As you can see this is nothing like being split down the middle. Mea maxima culpa. (What of the postal votes which allegedly arrived too late? What of the votes sent to residential care homes which never seemed to get to the residents? More in a piece of mine called ’10 reasons the referendum is invalid). Cheerio!
I just read your article, it contains not one valid reason why the vote shouldn’t have stood.
Sour grapes springs to mind.
You appear to doubt the people of Aberdeens ability to think for themselves, as in the independence referendum the no side used plenty of scare stories, bankrupt the City, flooding issues, years of disruption, these appear valid to you but the positives get discredited.
It would be nice if sometimes you opened your mind to the possibility you might be wrong. I don’t think there would be one scenario where you would have accepted the referendum result. The dummy was always getting thrown if the no side lost.
Thankfully we only need to grin and bare another 3 years of this incompetent council then we can get this project back on track, as per the will of the people.
Nice day today, wonder how many people are down there, I don’t know but would hazard a guess I wouldn’t need the fingers of my second hand in the count. It’s a cold unwelcoming place, the sooner it gets raised the better.
You do realise SHMU is a charity that does a lot of work for disadvantaged and disabled people in the poorest parts of Aberdeen, to ask for a financial contribution for these pictures being used in a community newsletter is bizarre.
Has the photographer no shame??
What a strange story to cover, asking a poor charity for compensation when no monetary thing of value has been stolen.
I am one of the photographers and live in one of the poorest parts of the city. I sell my pictures to make a living. If folk are going to give them away for free I may as well just pack it in and sign on. Many photographers use film, I use both film and digital. Is it just photographers who should give things away? Maybe charities should expect tradesmen to work for free or shop to give them goods. After all they do good work. Maybe I could give them my pictures in exchange for food parcels.
They have apologised and admitted it was an error, surely that’s enough when it comes to dealing with a small local charity helping the poorest areas in our community?
If it was a private for profit company that had done it I’d fully support you.
yes – a small local charity, which undoubtedly does good. However, with just under £300,000 going on annual salaries; SHMU is also a private limited by guarantee company which should pay for artwork it uses. Was the brochure commissioned? Did SHMU receive money for printing it? Even if it wasn’t operating on £500,000 per year, media companies get permission and pay to use photos. When it is your artwork, you can say that an apology is enough. Vicky has already explained how she feels.
As an organisation, we are disappointed that Aberdeen Voice has chosen to continue to criticise our work. In our opinion this was an honest mistake; one that we have taken full responsibility for, which has been blown out of all proportion.
As can be seen in the content of the article above, we have attempted to contact all the photographers concerned to apologise in person for the error that took place when finalising the design of the booklet – Tillydrone Guide, which was delivered freely to every home in Tillydrone.
It was always our intention to make the publication available on our website (www.shmu.org.uk) so that others out with the Tillydrone area could make use of the excellent resource. It was for this reason that we attached a release form requesting the use of the photographs for the on-line version along with the letter of apology. We made it clear that we would remove the photographer’s image from the on-line version unless their consent was secured. We fully recognise that this is the same permission process that should have taken place with the original printed version and have openly accepted our shared responsibility in the failure to ensure that permissions were sought prior to printing, as can be seen in the letter of apology that was sent to photographers as detailed in the article above.
Seven photographers images were used in this booklet. Of the seven, one person could not be contacted due to data protection issues; one person has asked for their image not to be used; one person has not replied to the request for use of the image in the on-line version, and their image will be removed; and four people are very happy for their images to be used.
At no point have any of the photographers who have been contacted indicated that they are looking for financial compensation.
We have accepted our responsibility in the process that led to this issue arising and have put in place new procedures to ensure that it does not happen again. We will continue to deal with the matter directly with the photographers concerned, and would urge any photographer that would like to discuss this issue with us further to phone and make an appointment with me at SHMU, our number is: 01224 515 013.
We will not be making any further statements on this story as we are conscious that responding to this is taking us away from our primary purpose; providing and facilitating the platforms and skills required to enable the voices of residents within the regeneration areas of Aberdeen, and other disadvantaged communities of interest across the city, to be heard. This is, as it always has been, our priority.
Murray Dawson
Chief Executive
Station House Media Unit
It is very good that you admit making a mistake. The law however says the photographers who want compensation are entitled to it: and that is what Aberdeen Voice has been trying to secure: why the reluctance to offer any compensation? And just wondering: is this the first and only time SHMU has used images without permission? Thank you for clearing that up.
If SHMU were not a media organisation which trains people how to work in the media, this ‘mistake’ would be somewhat understandable. Considering SHMU’s remit (and this helpful piece on a website it administers – http://57north.org/news/copyright-infringement-practical-guide-musicians which tells people to go after compensation if their artwork has been used) – it seems on the disingenuous end of the spectrum to say this is just an accident, one that SHMU won’t make good on. Is there really none of your £500,000 annual budget left that giving one or two hundred pounds out is impossible? Don’t you agree that this is the right thing to do?
Thank you to people who have been in touch with regard to similar copyright breach experiences; I am very keen to hear from any artists/photographers whose work has been used without permission.
Well that last comment just shows up the idiots that are going about these days. Anyway this whole deer cull issue has been a disgrace from the beginning. It looks to me like ACC and the police are in cahoots about something. It makes me sick that all this deer killing is simply because of a load of trees, it’s got entirely out of hand. I never agreed with the cull, it has been completely unneccesary, and i do not agree with the current deer ‘management’ on Tullos Hill. The deer are beautiful and have every right to be left alone because we all know the hill was never over run with them don’t we?? Everyone involved with the cull seems be as crooked as the next.
Maybe the publicity itself about the deer has worked against them.Along with other dog owners I used to walk over the “Gramps”twice a day and it was a joy to view the deer,foxes and hawks among other wildlife but that was in the seventies and eighties and it was a silent law not to make that public information.We moved away years ago and it is very sad to read of the decimation of that former lovely nature’s haven!l
The way information has been handled about the deer is a very interesting aspect. As you say, it was a given the deer were there and they were left alone. Then we had Peter Leonard, Ian Tallboys of the city council and Chris Piper all saying we had ‘too many deer’. Then we have no publicity from the mainstream press about someone or something destroying these 4-5 deer, and a complete refusal to post signs reinforcing the laws about poaching/harming wildlife. Something is very much wrong with our administration.
SHMU has it in writing that some of the photographers want compensation, which they are legally entitled to. Apologising doesn’t let anyone off the hook in the eyes of the law. Did you see the comment from Vicky? Do you think it’s vindictive to want to be paid for your work or for wanting control of how your work is used? Interesting.
Are you sure?
They say in their statement;
“At no point have any of the photographers who have been contacted indicated that they are looking for financial compensation.”
Are you saying Vicki has requested compensation and has been refused?
Simple answer: I asked Murray about compensation on behalf of those who want compensation in an email 7 March – no answer came.
Question: If you take something that isn’t yours, use it in a way that earns you money, do you think saying ‘sorry’ gets you off the legal hook?
By the way, it’s taken quite a while to even determine whether Aberdeen City Council or SHMU was going to take responsibility for this piece of copyright theft. SHMU did so, but is now saying it is not the lead agency. Some of those involved held fire until the ‘apology’ letter was issued: normally such an acknowledgement of copyright theft would also contain an offer of compensation, the SHMU letter didn’t.
There are number of other factors behind the scenes I would love to make public, but for the time being I’m not doing so. Andy, why don’t you just ask SHMU why it can’t offer money for the work it used? It’s a £500,000 per year professional media company and it knows all about publishing law. And if it doesn’t know how to treat photographers and artists, then why not?
So Aberdeen Voice have requested compensation on behalf of the photographers?
Did you request a specific amount?
Did you ask all the photographers if they wanted you to deal with compensation claims on their behalf?
I dont understand why the photographers who are looking for compensation don’t just contact SHMU directly and ask for the amount they feel they are due?
First, I’d like you to look at the ‘about’ Aberdeen Voice page. This is my story, carried in Aberdeen Voice. Having admitted breaking copyright law, SHMU should have offered compensation – they had every opportunity to do so. When you are approached by people to look into a matter, and find out they’ve been wronged, and you can’t get redress or even all the facts (who was the lead agency if not SHMU? what was Aberdeen City’s role?), then there is every reason to make the story public. There are more facts behind how SHMU is dealing with the photographers and me behind the scenes, believe me I would so like to share this, and just might. Can I ask you – why don’t you think a company like SHMU which has a publicly-funded large budget, which purports to be able to train people to be media professionals won’t pay someone like Vicky when they admit to taking her work without permission? SHMU had every opportunity to do the right thing here and offer a settlement when it asked me to write that it was contacting the photographers to apologise. There would not have been a story had this happened. This is very black and white as far as the law is concerned; don’t you have any concerns about how SHMU acted? I can promise you that several rights agencies are interested.
So Vicki is the person you are acting on behalf of?
One photographer is behind the story?
I agree this is black and white – she should contact SHMU and request the amount of compensation she thinks is fair.
Suzanne, I take it from your lack of response to my earlier question that Vicky is the only photographer who is looking for compensation?
Is it not true that until recently Vicky was a volunteer photographer with a local community magazine facilitated by SHMU, offering to provide photographs to the community magazine free of charge?
I am happy to confirm that there is no conflict of interest. Why do you think the photographers are personal friends, I wonder – they are facebook acquaintances, like a few hundred other such acquaintances. Even if they were my closest friend, the principles remains the same – as set out in the article.
Can you ask your friend at SHMU why it feels it’s above the law and above industry standards of paying photographers for work published? We would love to know. SHMU does good work – why you feel that is in dispute is odd. What is not in dispute is they have acted unprofessionally here.
I am very glad to know that your friendship with a SHMU dj has not coloured the basics of copyright law and publishing.
Again, the same question – has Vicky directly asked SHMU for compensation?
If not, perhaps she should and then let us all know if in fact there is any point to this story?
Dear Andy, Thank you for your in depth interest in this case of admitted copyright theft. As you can appreciate, there are legal issues which make further disclosure at this time impractical. As indicated, compensation was requested, and was expected when we were told that SHMU was about to write to those involved. Perhaps you should ask SHMU instead to share their correspondence with me, Aberdeen Voice, and those involved, be it by email or on social media – you would find it interesting. By all means continue your conjecture and speculation; as interesting as they are to some I’m sure, they do not change the facts and the legal requirement to pay for photographs SHMU published. SHMU is aware of the rules; it posted guidance on a website it manages. As you are very interested in the backgrounds of those involved, may I ask whether you have any connection to SHMU?
I see that the photograph linked to this story is from the photographer in question.
How much money did Aberdeen Voice pay to use the image for this article – or was it provided free of charge?
Dear Kathy, all of our photographs are cleared in advance, thank you for your question. If Aberdeen Voice did pay for using photographs, that would of course be between us and the photographers / image makers. As it happens, all images on AV were cleared in advance and no fees were charged. It should also be noted that AV doesn’t have a budget remotely approaching that of SHMU, and receives no taxpayer funding.
It appears that the author has touched a few raw nerves with this article. Several parties appear to object to the publication of this information whilst failing to provide, or even attempt to provide, any evidence to suggest that the article is in any way inaccurate or misleading. At least one of the photographers appears to support the case put by the author and it is, therefore, difficult to understand any of the points being made by the detractors.
It appears that SHMU have acknowledged their guilt and apologised whilst, at the same time, they appear to have sought to add insult to injury by asking permission to continue to use the work free of charge in an additional publication. I would not take too kindly to someone apologising for stealing my wallet whilst asking my permission to steal my watch as well.
Perhaps those objecting should declare exactly why they have taken the time to make objections which contain no substance?
Andy,How do you know that I have volunteered time for a SHMU publication? Do you work form SHMU? Are you the same person that thought it was acceptable to send me a bullying email? Is my name being bandied about because I am the only photographer who has volunteered my time to as community magazine? The plot thickens…
I cant believe that this is even a subject within Aberdeen voice, local people give up there time to volunteer at shmu and learn new skills in doing so. I have stayed in woodside since I was a child If people who contribute to the magazines were to be paid for their input ie. photos, stories etc then there would not be enough money in the pot for it all. I do believe if people are paid monies for things then it has to be declared through tax would that be the case….
I am from one of this areas and am disgusted that people would even contemplate thinking about taking money from a CHARITY for their own work.
Does Aberdeen voice pay for the pictures and stories that they use… what is Aberdeen voices ethos anyway I dont quite understand what your about!!!!!
I will be happy to explain, since somehow the article didn’t seem to explain it to you. SHMU gets £500,000 per year. It spends £290,000+ on salaries. It gets paid to create booklets. It used photos without getting prior permission or payment from someone who cannot afford to work for free, as you somehow think they should. Aberdeen Voice asks permission from photographers, and then uses work. It’s quite simple really, and the law backs us up. In fact, a photographers’ rights agency has suggested that since SHMU is not offering to pay anything at all, the matter should go before the Charities Commission. Do you work for free? Do you let people take your goods without getting compensated? Thought not.
I find your comments insulting i am a local person and you have upset me with your tone. Im not academic and for the amount of work that goes on in the area through shmu that does not seem like a lot of money. I know about shmu due to having a magazine delivered to my house which is great to see the work by local people. I was only merely giving my point of view that’s what this page is about. I get the feeling that this is your issue with the organisation is this the case? Who funds you??
https://aberdeenvoice.com/about/ will tell you about funding. Sorry if you don’t like the tone of my reply; to me it seemed suited to the tone in your original post. All of the reasons why photographers’ work is clearly their creations and must be cleared is set out in the article, and is surely known to SHMU, which trains people to work in the media. If you ask someone for permission it is up to them if they will donate the work or ask to be paid. If you don’t ask for work and you publish it, well then the law has something to say on the issue. Whether or not you are local, as am I, sadly, has no bearing on SHMU being in the wrong.
“Sarcasm and political satire are sometimes the only weapons people have against powerful institutions and powerful people. We now have threats to our free press coming in light of the News of the World hacking scandal, wherein a sledgehammer is being used to crack all the nuts, good ones and bad ones, for the actions of a few corrupt, powerful people in the press, who were buying information from the police.”
It would be interesting to know if any action will be taken against the city warden who said they would report the Kincorth deer leg but did not do so, or if it will again be a case of Aberdeen City Council staff getting away with it.n [comment slightly moderated]
Anyone who claims to be in a position to provide their “vision” for an independent Scotland is misleading people. What they can provide is a summary of their own personal ideology and rhetorical statements which seek to support that ideology. Such rhetoric would include phrases such as, for example, “Scots should be in control of their own destiny” whilst failing to acknowledge that there is currently no such proposition available to us.
At this moment in time, we are being offered the chance to vote to continue to be constrained and controlled by the Bank of England, which is, in turn, controlled by the UK Government at Westminster and by the EU. Even this proposal would be dependent upon everyone in the UK and Europe, other than the SNP leadership, being liars who are trying to scare us. There is no other offer on the table as we are told that the “liars” will see sense if Scotland votes for Independence and, therefore, no other option is required.
I am certainly not ideologically opposed to Scottish Independence but am opposed to being deliberately misled. The ideological day – dreaming and surreal denial of those who lead the Yes campaign do not a “vision” make.
As far as I’m aware, none of the above are SNP candidates. The SNP white paper suggests a currency share and continued EU membership. These folks, hopefully (although, I agree, unlikely), might provide us with an alternative vision.
Your statement about being dependent on “everyone in the UK and Euro zone being liars” is pretty much nonsense. The bank of England have accepted a currency union is possible. The only people denying it are politicians. I’m not suggesting they’re liars, but surely it’s not beyond the realm that a conservative government could perform a u-turn?
For what its worth, I see very little in the SNP/Yes campaign offering that makes independence worthwhile, beyond our massively fairer electoral system.
All salmon farms rely on medication to control or suppress disease and the move of all production to “on-shore enclosed pond and caged systems” looks likely.
If you want to eat wild Scottish salmon then look no further than http://www.usansalmon.com/
At the very least Dave Pullar’s company is honest and above board unlike the farmed fish industry.
That’s just ridiculous. Its going to be hard enough to enforce the proposed licences and stop indiscriminate breeding etc. Dog fouling and the lack of people picking it up IS a huge problem as is the lack of provisions for disposing of it once you have picked it up. The fact is, responsible owners/walkers do pick up and they are the ones who will licence and microchip. Those genuinely concerned and who want to do something about it should check this out and take the pledge. http://www.greendogwalkers.org.uk/
I’ve just been thinking, if Scotland became independent it will affect the political make up of the rest of Britain, perhaps considerably so; it could become more right wing which also scares me.
Scotland has fifty nine parliamentary seats but only one is Conservative, England has five hundred and thirty three parliamentary seats but two hundred and ninety eight are Conservative.
Scotland does help to reduce (even with its small share of parliament) right of centre policies. I feel we owe it to the welfare of our countrymen/women throughout Britain to help them, and keep Scotland as part of the UK.
Sean, those south of the border vote for the right wing governments you complain of. Why feel sorry for someone who inflicts difficulties on themselves?
Than you for taking the time to write this article. The Boulton piece is beyond contempt but one might almost understand the anger and bitterness of someone so totally devoid of wit, charm, intellect or principle when faced with Tony Benn, who was amply blessed with all three.
Boulton’s claim to have been “barged out of the way” by Michael Foot did make me laugh. Mr Foot must have been all of 60kg soaking wet and walked with the aid of a stick whilst the boorish Mr Boulton is something of a gros cochon who would take a bit of barging.
The main benefit of independence would be that we would have a government that we could elect and depose at the ballot box. That is something we have never been able to do since 1707.
Self – determination is a fundamental right which no one denies us. The debate is about whether we achieve a fairer and more prosperous outcome as a voluntary part of an established union of ancient nations within the EU, or as a potentially isolated small state outwith the established union and potentially outwith the EU as well. There is, of course, also the very real probability that such isolation would, based on the arguments so far put forward in favour of Independence, result in us ceding power over our own monetary policy to a foreign and fiscally hostile and powerful foreign country.
My worry is that there is no rational or substantial argument being made, or evidence provided, to support the view that we should vote for Independence in order to achieve a fairer and more prosperous society and that lies and deception are being used to suggest we will automatically be better off in order to justify Independence. In other words, an ideology based on instinctive nationalist fervour is the end, rather than the means, for many of the most persuasive nationalists, who use wild and unsubstantiated language to convert others to their cause.
I take on board what you say but Westminster policies are seen to benefit London and the South East at the expense of the rest of the country. We have the opportunity to change that in September.
Scotland has consistently contributed more to the exchequer than she receives back and it is generally accepted by economists that we are perfectly capable of standing on our own two feet.
While I favour a Scottish currency, in the short to medium term retention of The Pound would be beneficial to both countries. Were Westminster to deny this and The Scottish Government to continue using it (which they are perfectly entitled to do) and to walk away from their apportioned share of the UK debt it could be problematic for sure, but much more of a problem for Westminster who would have to shoulder all the debt, along with the costs of relocating the nuclear arsenal located in Scotland.
Only time will tell, but we have the opportunity to start anew and form a more compassionate and caring nation who wealth is used for the benefit of it’s residents and not squandered on insanities such as Afghanistan and nuclear weapons.
My own personal experience of Aberdeen City Council has never left me in any doubt that they are a very corrupt and dishonest organisation. (Note to moderator, I accept full legal responsibility for my statement).
What a nice surprise to find a populist press release from the SNP! Even more surprising after Kevin Stewart’s stomach churning “bairns before bombs” questions to Nicola Sturgeon yesterday during which Kevin revealed himself to be the only person in Scotland who didn’t know what the SNP policy is, in relation to Trident. Maybe Kevin has had other things on his mind for the past 20 years.
Perhaps the next SNP press release will include details of what Alex Salmond’s personal expenses, during a gruelling and extremely worthwhile trip to the Ryder Cup in the USA, were spent on and how much public money he has spent on preventing this information being made available to the public? After all, it may be that he donated the reportedly missing £54,000 to Save the Children.
Where, one wonders, does Monsieur Allard suggest we direct our anger at SNP politicians who continually insult our collective intellegence with in my opinion their un – costed, unsubstantiated, unbelievable fantasy presentation of a future independent Scotland in which we will all enjoy good health, free of charge, and have billion dollar oil wells in our back gardens, whilst everyone in the world will do what we tell them or be revealed as bluffing blustering scaremongers? (post moderated)
Think you’re a bit off the mark Bruce. All that the SNP are doing is pointing out that money, wasted by Westminster for generations, could be better spent. What would be your preference I wonder: meaningless and unwinnable wars and weapons of mass destruction that cannot be used, or new schools and hospitals?
Miz Kelly has no idea of what the people of Derry think and sounds to me like a bitter twisted old lady. From someone who has lived in Derry and knows the city can I wish mrs watts all the best and thankyou for a great job! (post has been moderated)
I worked the salmon fishing here from 1989 – 1999 and again from 2002 – early 2011.
The oil pollution has been seeping onto the beach aince i started at blackdog.
Shanks and McEwans knew about the oil seeping onto the beach and sent a digger down to scoop some up and take back to the waste tip in about 1991 i think it was.
here links to you tube videos and photos on flickr i took during my time at blackdog. these are just a fraction of videos and photos i took during the years.
Thank you for the links – recommended viewing for anyone who cares about this area or pollution in general. No doubt SEPA will want to let us all know the latest state of affairs in terms of measuring pollution.
Look up Trump National Golf Club in Rancho Palos Verdes, Ca where we live next door to it. When the 14th fairway fell down over a couple hundred feet on the bluff, Trump spent something like 11 million dollars to put it back up again. Anyone can walk through his golf course to access the path along the ocean and they enjoy it. It’s the law that people can access the coastline and beaches. Dot
“The wariness about foreigners was to be a characteristic of the time. British intelligence had reports since 1909 about how German intelligence was being gathered in Britain and Ireland,” he
says.
When warfare broke away in Venerable 1914, spy paranoia
soared throughout the UK with a rash of paper stories, books and films.
High-visibility film releases, including the High German Sleuth Peril, Guarding Britain’s Secrets and The Kaiser’s Spies, added fuel to
the send away.
There are dozens of rich companies that are avoiding paying tax in this country. British Telecom and Vodaphone, both of them I believe are avoiding paying hundreds of millions each year, some of that money could go into the NHS.
Like many people who love animals I think this is very sad, but I’m sure Sophie is being well cared for by the SSPCA. Why don’t the government bring back the dog license and make this and micro-chipping compulsory. In some countries (I think it’s Australia) you also have to supply pictures of your dog when they are young and then later when they are an adult, this is kept on a data base as part of the dog license. If we also had this system in Britain, I’m sure it would help (at least in part) to deter/stop animal cruelty.
It was obvious our NHS would struggle when we threw our borders open and allowed mass immigration, as well as the burden on our health service affordable social housing is now out of reach to the average working man in the street. I recently applied to the council and at current levels it would take me 12 years to be offered a flat in the poorest part of town, to the area I was brought up in it would take 674 years.
How about an article on local people being denied basic services due to the huge influx of immigrants, surely more worthy of an article than ned abandons staffie.
Oh Bill you are a one. The lack of “affordable ” housing is due to a lack of any coherent housing policy, including rent controls. Private housing is now being openly marketed, on a grand scale, at “buy to let” investors who can own as many as 100 properties. This leads to a shortage of available housing for the low paid, including hard working immigrants, and obscenely high rents which, in turn, attracts more “buy to let” investment and an ever decreasing supply of housing.
The form actually asked for my ethnicity, I suspect white/scottish got me no points, why even ask the question.
I’m not sure about you but I’ve noticed a huge difference in the make up of Aberdeens population over the years, so yeah immigration on a huge scale when social housing is at a premium was always going to have casualties, you can add home grown mid forties people who have worked hard all their life to that list. I’d be as well going on the dole, that would get me housed.
Have to agree with you Bruce. The Conservatives gleefully sold off local authority housing, promising to use the proceeds to build replacements. That part of the deal was reneged on, creating massive waiting lists. Subsequent governments, of all persuasions, refused to sanction new build adding to the problem and causing house prices to escalate to unheard of levels. Had a sensible housing policy be adopted in regard to local authority/housing association new builds, this could have been avoided. We then have little gems like the “bedroom tax” being imposed because of market forces/greedy landlords increasing rents to ridiculous and unjustified levels to milk the benefits system. Surely a rent cap would have been more appropriate? Innocent parties in the rest of the country are being made suffer because the economy in the South East of England has been allowed to overheat dramatically by inept politicians of all persuasions.
To Bill’s comment on housing allocation on grounds of ethnicity I would comment: Housing is allocated on a needs basis. Those whom he complains about accept what they are offered while many locals turn up their noses at areas they don’t like. If you desperately need a roof over your head you can’t afford to be choosy. There in lies the problem.
It was the cheap sell – off of social housing, without replacement, and the creation of an anarchic private housing market which led to a shortage of housing for the less well off. I have a feeling you might have a sneaking admiration for the instigator of this deliberate policy.
Don’t blame the immigrants Bill. It might possibly give some the misguided impression you are a lumpen racist.
A must for anyone making a serious study into the totally ridiculous, Sid is best known as Douglas John McLean Cairns and was born in Glasgow. But don’t necessarily hold that against him.
For over 900 years he has worked as a Change Manager, Performance Poet and Spiritual Healer. His unique combination of skills have made him an exceptional speaker and expert in Transformational Change whatever that means.
In his spare time he has cycled across the Sinai Desert and something called Cuba.
Another adventure for Alan. Not a “death”. I have admired Alan and his work for many years. Future generations will be inspired by him and his work. How wonderful that there was no pandering to “fad” or “fashion” Your knowledge, and archetypal recall ]has loaded all the works with layers of meaning. Such enrichment to the world, and to my life… Such a precious rarity to be savoured. Vale. Michael Morgan Oyster Cove. Tasmania
I just went out and bought one of the new 4 bed houses being built in Bucksburn but as a tax payer since the day I left school social housing should have been an option for me.
How would I get on if I kicked up in Romania looking for a house and benefits??
Bruce, if you didn’t see it last night on channel 5 please get it on catch up, pickpocketers secrets, it was all about pickpockets in London, over 75% of all crime there now is carried out by immigrants.
They crowd our hospitals, prisons, social housing, schools, et al, sooner we leave the EU and can control the influx the better all round.
Bill, I am slightly confused, can you explain why you “just went out and bought one of the new 4 bed houses”. But you have also applied to the council for housing, if you have the money to “just” buy a house, some social housing providers may not think of you as being in priority need.
I pay my taxes and am as entitled to apply for housing as anyone, in my opinion more entitled than someone who has never paid into the system or has paid very little, this is where our Country has got things all wrong, the benefit system was meant to be a last resort but has turned into a way of life for some, these people in turn get social housing ahead of those who actually pay the bills.
The above goes for immigrants as well, we should be looking after our own first, those who pay taxes over a long length of time.
I suspect it would require an awful lot of Romanian pickpockets to steal the sums of money being misappropriated, on a daily basis, by our home – grown investors and businessmen, within the City of London and elsewhere.
Should you decide to “kick up in Romania” you will have no need of benefits. For the price of your house in Bucksburn, you will be able to buy an entire village and all the comforts you could ever desire.
a props of nothing in particular, I would like to say Aberdeen Voice is not able to publish comments accusing people of being racists, bigots, unsympathetic bread-heads, callous nationalists and the like. That is all. Thank you.
Hardly seems relevant now but don’t know how the Marillion reference got in there; can’t recall where I got that from. Unfortunately, drummer David Innes has passed away; he is missed by many, witnessed by a great celebration of his life in the form of a concert held last Friday evening in Aberdeen. RIP.
Very interesting article, thank you Suzanne and Aberdeen Voice. I’m quite stretched at the moment but I’ve given a donation to Sea Shepherd UK and Hunt Saboteurs Association. I would like to ask other readers to please make donations also, even a small amount helps and you get a nice feeling from knowing that you’ve done something to help.
Below are the webpages where you will find the donate buttons/web links:
The fact that these aggressive people have access to firearms is worrying. If they have started threatening people, I think they should be disarmed at once.
George Pullar of Scottish Wild Salmon Company responds:
“Firstly, there is no use of lethal measures at the Ythan [SUZANNE notes – I had a conversation with someone in the Ythan area who said the area was likewise being targeted, and I am trying to learn more] and in fact we have opted to refrain from exercising our netting rights there. Only the rod and line fishery is to be operated at the Ythan. Sea Shepherd are targeting our operation at Gardenstown, which is an entirely separate location.
“In response to your concerns, please be assured that we are going about our lawful business and are fully complying with all seal licence conditions, firearms legislation and the heritable title we have to fish for salmon. This, despite considerable provocation from Sea Shepherd who are known for their extreme actions. We note you have already uploaded an article on the Aberdeen Voice. This is a great pity as it is clear you only have one side of the story and that is inaccurate. Our staff are being constantly stalked and harassed by Sea Shepherd crew. We have met with both Police Scotland and Sea Shepherd representatives, in an attempt to resolve matters. Sea Shepherd have made it clear that they consider themselves as under a ‘higher law’ despite clear warnings from the police, that we are not to be impeded from carrying out our lawful business and that Scottish Law applies here. Today, 22 April, on arrival at the pier, our law abiding staff were faced by a large group of activists, wearing face masks, knuckledusters and combat gear. Clearly, the intent was to intimidate – surely such extremism has no place in modern Scotland. The police have been advised.
“Unfortunately, Sea Shepherd have chosen to sensationalise and misrepresent the issue for their own ends. To be clear, we deploy Acoustic Deterrent Devices wherever possible and have done so at Gardenstown. We have invested considerable resources in strengthening our fishing gear to further deter seal attack and are currently in discussions with Scottish Government to determine what additional non lethal measures can be deployed to avoid the need for lethal control – lethal methods are very much a last resort. To that end, in order to reduce tensions we will remove all firearms from our operation and will continue dialogue with Scottish Government involving the Sea Mammal Research Unit, to garner support and direct assistance to further expand non lethal measures.
“Please also be aware that we are mindful of our very strong legal rights and will defend these to the fullest extent of the law. Given the ongoing significant and unwarranted harassment we are suffering, through online media, email and face to face, giving rise to the potential of legal action, it would be inappropriate for us to make any further comment.”
sorry, you’re losing me here: these are the man’s written words in response to an email I sent. His comments are black and white. If I had interviewed him, which I’d be more than willing to do, do you think he’d have said something different? Please do explain what point you’re trying to make. It is almost as if you’re implying I’m somehow trying to mislead the ‘casual reader’ by presenting them with Pullar’s words.
When you say that the original fishing cottages of Old Torry were torn down to make way for the oil and gas industry, some people think that no Victorian houses remain in Torry. I and my family live in a detached house in Abbey Road which was built in 1872 and there are other houses of a similar vintage in the area.
Please excuse my ignorance on such an important issue when I say that I am simply astounded that the netting of wild salmon is still being carried out on such a scale in Scottish river estuaries. Given the acknowledged fragility of wild salmon stocks, I had simply assumed there to be legislation in place to prevent such widespread harvesting of Atlantic wild salmon.
Allegations of the slaughter of seals, by the use of firearms and for the purpose of accommodating the already questionable practice of widespread commercial salmon – netting, must be taken seriously and investigated thoroughly, as should allegations of intimidation towards the allegedly gun – toting fishermen.
Does anyone know what the anglers, who take such care to try to preserve salmon stocks , have to say about the activities of USAN?
I suspect that that is at the heart of the issue Bruce. The netting of wild salmon conflicts with the interests of the landowners who control the inland fisheries.
thank you for your suspicions. Do name the landowners you mean. The landowners at Gardenstown are, I know for a fact, against the shooting of seals from their land, and have told as much to USAN / Scottish Wild Salmon Co. on numerous occasions. Do you know someone connected to the company Duncan? You seem very keen to defend them, and I for one would like to know what your evidence is, thanks
I am sure there could be advantages to Scotland becoming independent, but we will loose much, much more than we could ever gain by doing so. We are in the centenary of World War One and many Scottish families lost loved ones in both World Wars keeping Britain safe. I will be remembering those who gave their lives when I vote to keep Britain together.
That doesn’t really make sense Sean. Regardless of whether you want to remember those who died in WW1/2, it has absolutely no bearing on the vote for independence – the two are entirely unrelated.
As an aside, nobody died in World Wars to maintain Scotland’s right to have nuclear weapons. Britain is less safe with Nuclear weapons in it, and less safe when it continues to support aggression in the middle east. If you want to keep Britain safe, then there is a far greater chance of that happening in an independent Scotland, as Trident would not be supported. With the UK’s first past the post system, you are tied to a Conservative or Labour party for the foreseeable future – both of those parties have attached themselves firmly to Trident. I’m not saying that independence is right or wrong, simply that if your goal is a safer Britain, then a non-nuclear independent Scotland should be your choice.
Maybe I did, but it very much looked to me like you were conflating something that has absolutely nothing to do with independence (remembering victims of WW1) with independence.
Sean, if you wish to remember those wo gave their lives in both World Wars before to vote in 144 days, please do acknowledge that many of those serving at the time did want Scotland to be an independent country, just like the ones serving today.
As someone who wasn’t born here, I do object to folks bringing those wo gave their lives in any wars to the debate. I know many veterans who will vote yes.
For you Sean to understand where I am coming from, both my great grandfathers lost a brother in WW1, my grandfather was fighting alongside British forces for 3 days in Dunkirk, I served and trained with many other nations’ armed forces including Germany, I want my children and grandchildren to learn from the past for the world to live in peace.
We are commemorating the start of WW1 this year, commemorating and not celebrating. British triomphalism has no place in this debate.
The leader of the SNP – one Alex Salmond has publicly conceded that nothing can be promised, guaranteed or believed in the course of the Referendum campaign and that includes the so called promise to get rid of Trident. This article presents an exemplary contrast between the cynical and the naive; the former represented by the unashamedly populist SNP and the latter by anyone who believes a word they say.
The last two lines, in particular, of today’s excellent piece by Bob Smith aka “The Poetry Mannie” sum up the situation perfectly.
You’re right Bruce, but I think it’s fair to say for certain that Trident will definitely stay as part of the Union. I wouldn’t trust the SNP to fulfil its promise, but I do believe that voting Yes will see us gain a number of parties to whom Trident will be unacceptable. The opportunity to vote for those parties, in a fairer PR system, will present itself very soon after the referendum. You’re not voting for SNP, your voting to decide whether you think the Scottish people can be better represented as an independent country than as part of the UK – the answer to that is overwhelmingly yes.
Like yourself, I wouldn’t trust the SNP to fulfil their promises. With regard to predicting voting intentions, this is an impossible task. At the last UK election, almost 80% of Scottish voters chose parties committed to retaining Trident. At the last Scottish election, a year later, only 45% of Scottish voters chose parties committed to retaining Trident. I would argue that the latter was heavily influenced by those who decided to give a vote of confidence to the SNP, as a devolved Executive, rather than an endorsement of unilateral nuclear disarmament. Such results do not suggest a groundswell of popular opposition to Trident, and provide no certainty of outcome, no matter what system of voting is employed.
With respect, I do understand that this is not a party political contest but the SNP are, beyond doubt, the driving force behind a Yes Campaign which cannot come up with one single definitive response to key questions on EU membership and currency union, to name but two. It is a dishonest and divisive campaign which provides vitriol rather than vision and derision rather than detail. The practical difficulties which would be presented by separation are considerable and are not, in my opinion, outweighed by any potential advantages.
Christian Allard makes a very valid point. Why spend billions on weapons we cannot use when the money could be used to much better ends? Westminster lives in an outdated “British Empire” bubble where power on the world stage is the be all and end all. I would rather live in a country where the government strives to better the position of it’s populace, not consign many to the hardship of food banks, no heating or lighting and abject poverty. Roll on independence. We live in one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. It is time that was reflected in the position of the man in the street, not a handful of super-rich individuals.
It does seem perverse that our illustrious council has decided to demolish what is a magnificent granite building in a deprived area of the city. Given the horrendous waiting lists for council housing and the effects of the “bedroom tax”, surely conversion in to a significant number of one bed roomed flats would be preferable?
There seems to be a built-in inability to admit to a mistake in public service in the UK. The police responded heavily to a hoax call. That in itself is absolutely fine – rather that than not be prepared enough. But the absolute refusal to admit when their in the wrong (and provide a relatively small sum to the claimant and investigate the hoax caller) is galling. The police are a public service. Tax payers pay for the information they hold and that information should be made available to the people who paid for it. You wouldn’t pay for a survey on your house only to be told that you couldn’t actually look at it.
I find it odd that the wild salmon fisheries are coming in for such a bad press. The industry is centuries old and despite the fact that many of us can choose to avoid eating those foods which we disapprove of, others decide otherwise.
Obviously if you are against the eating of fish then I understand. If you are a river fisherman or indeed a fan of fish suppers that is quite a different story.
George’s dad Dave recently told me “I have had many folk in my kitchen who go off to write bad press about the Salmon fishing afterward. They should look to what the big estates are doing really. That is where the problem lies.”
Why not target the consumer rather than the likes of Usan. Perhaps market forces will end the conflict between the catcher and the folk who object to the protection of the netting.
In many ways, the Usan Fisheries are continuing a heritage industry.
the situation at hand is far from centuries old Duncan. You can still have salmon without shooting seals 🙂 Target the consumer? be my guest. This article is about what is going on now at Gardenstown. Feel free to write a factual piece of your own.
Well Duncan, my nationality may be of interest to you, but it is not relevant. But I’ve lived here for over 10 years. I’ve lived here long enough to know that if you don’t have the landowner’s permission – which those involved in the shooting don’t have – you can’t legally shoot from the owner’s property. This was made clear last year when the shooters killed a seal in front of tourists who promptly cancelled their Gardenstown stay, and it was made clear again this year. Salmon netting on a sustainable scale, without illegally shooting seals (and there are non-lethal deterrents) is part of Scotland’s heritage. But new developments such as the cruelty of salmon farming and the modern methodology at play here have no business in any compassionate society. Are you saying that only people from a particular national background have the right to criticise or the ability to understand that nation? Does this mean we should allow the Japanese to whale because they claim (incorrectly) it is their ‘heritage’, or that bear bile, rhino horn and other traditional medicines should be allowed to continue because of national tradition?
I suppose its a big mistake really. Obviously George was innocent of wrong doing and my heart goes out to the man. He wasn’t even there after all.
The police did what they had to do, which is of course sad.
As to your comment that “Any first year law student would be making good points as to how holding a review pretty much gives validation to the request for a review.”
I very much doubt it. Law students and indeed lawyers are very quickly persuaded that the law only serves those who understand it and can afford to pay for justice.
Most honest lawyers will agree. Their mortgage payments depend upon it.
“the police did what they had to do?” Maybe you missed the part about finding there was no gunman, no gun and no illegal activity, and then days later arresting the flat owner. Or perhaps you missed the half dozen or more ambiguities in how the police proceeded
The Salmon netting companies in particular USAN trading as Scottish Wild Salmon Company receive a bad press because of their methodology which includes netting in estuaries where Salmon are returning to breed in already depleted rivers. Shooting seals (in Crovie in front of children and tourists who have vowed never to return). They have lied constantly about their intentions. Have intimidated protestors with threats of violence and filled their pockets, without return to the communities they plunder.
Anglers on The Ythan are in uproar that this river who’s stocks were depleted of fish by farming methods which filled the river with algae and starved it of light and oxygen.
River management are in uproar because they have done sterling work in improving the water quality and stocking the river. We are in uproar because they still intend to disrupt the biggest seal population in the area. (Anglers have been told to buy seal scarers) and though they say they will remove firearms from their operation still refuse to give up their cull licences and firearms licences.
Their methods are both unsustainable and unsavoury.
Ythan anglers on the other hand have done their bit for the river ecology. Returning the majority of their catch and enjoying a symbiotic relationship with other river users including our magnificent seal population.
Just because something has happened for hundreds of years doesn’t mean it’s right. We had to fight against such arguments to overcome the death penalty.
This Statement just in from Sea Shepherd:
Update on the meeting today between Sea shepherd and The scottish wild salmon company. Sea shepherd UK went to the table with as good an offer as its possible for us to make and asked only that the Scottish wild salmon company hands back its licences and ceases to kill seals.
The Scottish wild salmon company have asked for a week to consider our offer and have promised that they will kill no seals during that period.
For the sake of the good people of Gardenstown and local relations Sea shepherd suggested that the HSA depart from the town and this has now happened. Sea shepherd are hugely grateful to the HSA for all they have done in Gardenstown towards our mutual cause of stopping seals being killed. Huge respect to the members involved who conducted themselves with restraint even when employees of Scottish wild salmon company provocatively turned up at our beach clean up today.
Sea shepherd hugely appreciates the wonderful response from our supporters in putting pressure on the Harbour trust regarding the invoice for filming, this has now been resolved and we would ask that no more emails, tweets or comments are sent to them. The Harbour trustees have acted nobly and relations are now good between Sea shepherd and the harbour.
We urge seal lovers across the world to come together and (politely) make it very clear to the Scottish government and the Scottish wild salmon company that shooting protected seals under any circumstances is totally unacceptable. With your help and support we can bring an end to this senseless and unnecessary killing!
To discuss what the thoughts and opinions of long dead soldiers may, or may not, have been, particularly in the context of apparently seeking political advantage, appears unseemly and undignified. To attack someone and accuse them, quite falsely, of “British triumphalism” seems, in my opinion, to indicate a clear unwillingness to tolerate any opinion which does not support the Scottish Nationalist cause.
I would like to hear more about how an independent Scotland, as an aspiring member of NATO, might present, as part of their application process, their intention to immediately and unilaterally rip apart the NATO nuclear strategy at a stroke. Would it be the case that NATO, just like the UK Government and all 28 states within the EU, will simply do what Scotland says?
Bruce, to be sovereign is to negotiate your position in the world. After a Yes vote and if the people of Scotland vote for the SNP to form the first government of an independent Scotland, this will happen:
“The SNP wishes Scotland to fulfil its responsibilities to neighbours and allies. On independence Scotland will inherit its treaty obligations with NATO. An SNP Government will maintain NATO membership subject to an agreement that Scotland will not host nuclear weapons and NATO continues to respect the right of members to only take part in UN sanctioned operations. In the absence of such an agreement, Scotland will work with NATO as a member of the Partnership for Peace programme like Sweden, Finland, Austria and Ireland. Scotland will be a full member of the Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP) of the European Union and the Organisation for Cooperation and Security in Europe (OSCE).” http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/in-full-snp-resolution-on-nato-1-2414919
Your unwillingness to address legitimate concerns about making presumptions as to the opinions of dead soldiers to gain political advantage and unjustified attacks against those who disagree with you speaks volumes!!
It is somewhat ironic that your response begins by referring to negotiation and ends with an SNP resolution which clearly claims automatic rights to NATO membership, under terms and conditions strictly laid down by the SNP, and an additional option of membership of other associations due to our automatic right to EU membership, presumably also under terms and conditions strictly laid down by the SNP. Forgive me if I suggest that this sounds more like dictatorship and delusion than negotiation.
I have now boycotted Scottish wild salmon, and I will now be buying Pacific wild salmon. I had a good look at the product information on the different supermarkets websites, there is little information about country of origin and no information about the producer. But at least by refusing to buy Scottish fish I know that no innocent animals have been killed.
During 2011 and 2012 salmon farms and netsmen throughout Scotland shot a total of 898 seals, after the government issued licences to shoot a total of 2,506 seals. Salmon farms accounted for almost exactly half of the Scottish figure.
We have just cancelled our plans to holiday in Gardens Town this year. Unless the law is enforced then we will not visit Scotland again, plus Scottish Salmon is now off of our shopping list.
Dear Simon – Thanks for getting in touch, but I’m very sorry to hear you’ve cancelled your plans to visit this great area; I’d ask you to reconsider. The town and its people are amazing; I’ve just spent a pleasant few hours there in a local café, and bought quite a few locally made goods. The people I spoke to don’t want the salmon shooting any more than you or I do. The locals could really use your visit 🙂 that goes for anyone else who’d like to visit a beautiful, still unspoilt area. We can’t let the commercial salmon industry change this great area.
We are planning a trip to Scotland next year and our main reasons for coming are the natural beauty and wildlife, this type of incident is not tourist friendly and would certainly make us consider not adding this area to our tour.
Well done to all involved in putting a stop to the slaughter of Scotlands seals. The SWSC Known better in my area as USAN SALMON FISHERIES, TRADING AS SCOTTISH WILD SALMON COMPANY have, for years been shooting INNOCENT seals and need to be stopped. Montrose was a prime target area so much so that for years we had dead bodies left on local beaches with severe head shot wounds. Not pleasant for locals, families, children and tourists to view. Its such a shame that locals felt so intimidated that they wouldn’t at the time stand up and be counted…..perhaps now they will given SSUK and HSA are watching them. For the innocent seals that were killed at Dunnet Head and Montrose years back “I applaud all in their efforts” to get this stopped.
Hi Elaine, we would really appreciate any info on the shooting of seals in Montrose area, you can email in total confidence, please contact us at admin@seashepherduk.org or Face book message Sea shepherd UK. Thanks
The Laird O’ Inversnecky would be shocked and inclined to keep a breast of the matter no doubt.
“Oh tak me back tae Cove, tak me back tae Cove,
far the air is as strong as can be…”
Jist saying Bob.
Jist shows fit can be deen bi usin a bittie common sinse in restorin Duthie Park ti its former glory.In stark contrast ti fit wis planned ti revamp Union Terrace Gardens.
It must have been 12 years ago or more when I first heard that a Pralhad Kohle had purchased the harbour. For what reason one had to ask, and I heard bits and pieces over the years regarding his complaints that the fishing boats were not moored in a military like straight line etc? It all seemed rather bazaar that a chap from a totally different culture would take such an active interest in this ultra-conservative section of society. What were his short and long term motives one had to ask?
I do remember speaking to him with others all that time ago when I said if he thought he could get any money from Aberdonians from fishermen too then he should start looking at the rocks in the harbour and ask them to give him blood!
Nevertheless, I think one should look at the possibility of a secret agenda here. To get rid of the fishing boats and then turn the place into a leisure centre with hotels and holiday flats etc up, and let us not forget that there are those who own the land up the hill who would be only too willing to sell out for a nice fat sum of money no matter what they say about their own cultural interests.
I do sense something a little fishy here, and it is not totally unlike that film “Local Hero” but dear Mr Kohle is not the hero – he is the US business man who may not have his eyes on a massive oil harbour blasted out of rock but eyes towards turning Cove Bay into a great wondrous land of hotels, and leisure faciltiies etc, catering for the rich & famous but with jobs only for those who only want a “minimum wage”.
If this is the case one must ask how different are Mr kohle’s ambitions to the rest of our dear sceptred Isle which we currently call the UK where bankers take precedence, and where the only caring nationalism found today can only be found within Scotland!
Hi – I did enjoy your ‘usual business’ this week, although your preliminary note about the Crovie fire was a sad and salutory warning.
Also sadly, your note under ‘Propaganda’ about the ‘Unionist Alliance’ poster on Facebook is only too true. I found a similar effort through Twitter as long ago as September 2013. The passage of time has allowed the anonymous author(s?) of this sort of thing to expand the list of scary supporters of the UK from BNP and UKIP to include a few more organisations off most people’s radar. That first time round the title was more pointed – people minded to vote no in the referendum were ‘Saying NO to Scotland.’ That older version of the same poster is here – http://helpgov.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/scottish-independence-referendum-some-tendentious-propaganda/.
I’m sure you’re right to stay away from the subject. The best thing I’ve seen so far about how people should conduct themselves in the debate is from a group valled Collaborative Scotland (I have nothing to do with them) who have come up with a ‘Commitment to Respectful Dialogue’ – http://collaborativescotland.org/respectfuldialogue/. Unfortunately, many (on both sides) seem unable to approach anything near these standards of respect.
Your description of pollution in the East Tullos Burn is spurning me on to confession time. Way back in the mid 1970’s is was employed by a major oil service company who’s name begins in H (they were heavily involved in the Gulf wars). As a lowly technician I was frequently instructed to dispose of large quantities of trichlorethane solvent. How did we do it? By the simple method of tipping it out on the ground where I was told it would evaporate. As an older and much wiser person I know that this was bollocks and the bulk of the solvent almost certainly ended up down at the water table.
In total I must have dumped 50-100 gallons of solvent somewhere in the oil service yard between York Street and the beach esplanade where I am sure it sits to this day contaminating the land. The point of my story? Pollution can have occurred many years ago and unless someone ‘fesses-up, it may be impossible to determine the source years down the line.
I now feel hugely guilty but then I didn’t know better. I am sure that company “H” did, but preferred the quick and cheap disposal method that they instructed me in.
Common practise within all service companies at the time as the waste disposal companies didn’t exist as they do now, people just didn’t have the know how or experience back then.
These days everything is done by the book and the environment is up there with safety as far as the oil service companies go, no expense is spared when it comes to chemical disposal.
Even as a daft laddy I inherently knew that tipping chemicals on the ground was wrong, even though I did as instructed. “H” must have known it was wrong too. I left the job in 1978. I wonder when they stopped dumping trichlorethane?
The chap who was given the death penalty actually died within 45 minutes, imo he didn’t suffer enough in his death, this was someone who had raped his victim and actually buried her alive, i’m sure this took way longer than 45 minutes.
The next person to die by execution raped and killed an 11 Month old girl, how he dies and in what manner is of little importance imo, what’s sure is he doesn’t deserve to live, the man’s a monster.
” imo he didn’t suffer enough in his death” Hey, don’t hold back, tell us what you really think.
Do you really think it was good thing that someone underwent a botched, intensely painful execution, one that was almost certainly illegal under any international law? Maybe you should reread what you just wrote and reflect a little bit? You might do yourself some good.
As ever Suzanne your article has certainly given rise to much debate, especially about pollution. My concern is about Cllr.Malone. She appears to wish Aberdeen to be a “Wildlife Free Zone”. Coming home by taxi one night, a fox crossed the path of my taxi at 2 a.m. Will she call the fox hounds out, do you think?
Dear All, in response to several queries, Bill Stephen is actually a real person who writes in with these comments. You might be forgiven for thinking he is some fictitious invention created to inflame commentary by making outlandish statements, kind of like that woman who crashed and burned from ‘The Apprentice’ [what that? Ed] – but no; Bill is out there. And I do mean out there.
In fairness to this “real person”, it is surely time something was done about these cunning man – eating foxes which are raping and pillaging around our fair city and threatening our civilisation. Perhaps we could make it mandatory for taxi drivers to be adequately equipped with assault rifles with which to disable this threat to our security. Or then again Bill might take it upon himself to patrol our streets of an evening ensuring that anyone suspected of committing a crime is executed in an appropriately sadistic manner. His apparent bloodlust might lead to him teaming up with Ms Malone to boost tourism by initiating a program of late night safaris to eradicate all forms of wildlife.
What a great idea Bruce; we could team him up with seagull shooter Mervyn New (who blasted protected seagull chicks out of his office window a few years back) http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/oil-company-boss-probed-over-1071830 and of course Donald Forbes. Forbes was so petrified of a fox on a golf course which tried to eat his sandwich lunch that he took a club and battered the thing half to death and left it in agony. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-13411219 New seems to have had no sanction from his company, and Forbes is still apparently welcome at his golf club. I for one won’t be forgetting these heroic figures for a very long time. Have a good one Bruce.
Without wishing to sound unnecessarily negative, is this really the extent of the massive new influx of tourists and air routes we were promised in return for tearing up the Local Plan, sacrificing a unique SSSI and destroying the lives of local residents?
Fair play to VisitAberdeen however, as I’m sure the Baltic bloggers will have a ball riding quad bikes around Lumphanan and wandering around a windswept deserted golf course. Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire have some wonderful tourist attractions, most of them natural and open to all. Why on earth are we promoting privately owned businesses which offer tourists nothing they could not find elsewhere rather than highlighting and marketing our unique natural heritage?
Another Story on AV that I would have known about before it happened 🙂
Incidentally, I`ve been doing some work for the Royal Deeside railway and as a reward me and my kids got a ride aboard one of the engines alongside the drivers – It was awesome, the kids loved it and apparently during certain times of the year this experience is available to all? well worth an enquiry
Cool John. Yes the Deeside line is on target to expand. I wrote about it some time ago in various publications.
Sorry about the time lag on this story. At least I got the facts right unlike some other printed publications who led in one case on “Full steam ahead, May 3rd saw the arrival of the Great Britain VII in Inverurie. The train is one of the few steam trains around …. “
Speaking about U-turns and being economical with the truth.
An article in the E&E (15.5.14) reported in reference to Trump abandoning Menie:
” Asked if he would consider pulling out of the resort if the wind turbines are built, he said: “I would say that I would be extremely unhappy and so would the people of Aberdeen.
This is great news but when is work going to start? Also is it going to be a paved cycle path or will it be a hardcore track and suitable only for hybrids or mountain bikes?
Please don’t spoil the beautiful view of Marischal College with more glass boxes on pillars just like the ones you’ve pulled down. They will look dated in no time and we’ll be back here again arguing about plans. Provost Skene’s house and Marischal College need space around them to appreciate their stunning architecture. Save the proposed plan for a location more fitting. Tourists will never come to Aberdeen for office blocks and shops, they’re looking for a bit of history and culture.
Sheila is completely correct with her comment and I wholeheartedly agree.
Something I thought about when I’ve seen the artist impressions online in the E&E, is that with the proposed concrete buildings on the west side of Broad Street being as tall and wide as they are, how can the pictures be so sunny. In reality as the sun passes from east to west, even on a clear summer’s day there will be a lot of shadow, just like we had when Aberdeen Shifty Council (IMHO) was in St Nicholas House. During the winter Broad Street will be dark, dingy and unwelcoming, perhaps becoming like the top deck of the St Nicholas Shopping Centre.
I quite agree Sheila. I’m sure future generations of Aberdonians will look back say (not for the first time): what an opportunity missed. It’s high time Provost Skene’s house comes back into the consciousness of “everyday” Aberdeen environment.
For the record, I am NOT Aberdonian but have lived here for the last 35+ years. I am a ‘teuchter’ from Inverurie and to be honest in all of my time here I cannot really remember having feelings of pride of being in this city which I call home. Sure – we’re the ‘oil capital of Europe’ etc etc but you’d hardly know it. I’ve also travelled to many cities in Europe and America and been blown away by some of the most beautiful architecture you cud ever wish to see……… and with that in mind, I TOTALLY remember the first time I looked up Upperkirkgate as I was crossing the street and I literally caught my breath on seeing, for the first time, Marischal College in ALL of it’s glory, in the sunshine …. For the first time EVER I felt pride in this city – and was moved to tears by the beauty and impact and sheer majesty of what I saw!!! And every time I cross that street I look up and never cease to be amazed. PLEASE – do not build yet ANOTHER ‘modern’ glass monstrosity that is going to hide this amazing building!! Let it be seen! Marischal College is something that we should be celebrating and promoting for our tourists and visitors to Aberdeen!! It IS a masterpiece!!
I agree with all the comments about opening up the views to Marischal College and to Provost Skene’s House but the thing that really bothers me is the deliberate misinformation (at best) put forward by the developers, backed by the City Council. They state in their blurb that the new building will be significantly lower than St Nichols House – wrong. It will be lower than the tower block of St Nicks, but the part of St Nick’s which was opposite Marischal College was only three stories high. This new build, positioned closer to Marischal than St Nicks, will be eight to nine stories high, almost three times the height of the previous building. They also state that there will be no real problem with wind – again wrong. It was interesting to note that the most damage to the temporary covering to the tower block was on the lowest five floors, the area where wind turbulence is at its worst. This new build will extend that very real problem all the way accross to Upper Kirkgate. I think the Councillors need to be given a chance to see on site, the actual distances involved and the heights involved before this thing goes any further. Aberdeen is rapidly turning into the laughing stock of Scotland, where it could have so much to offer but continually delivers disasters.
Misunderstanding?or confused?Tak yer pick. I sure as hell am confused bi the crap comin oot o baith the Yes camp and the No camp. Aat’s the wye am voting fer the status quo.
Couldn’t agree more Bob. The level of debate is embarrassing and in the absence of any evidence – based argument for a Yes vote, it would appear that most weemin intend to vote based on rational thought rather than emotion and instinct.
At Salmond loon needs ti gie himsel a right shak if ye ask me min.
So the answers we have all been waiting for are to be found in Macduff! Not in Holyrood, Westminster, Strasbourg or Brussels but in Macduff!
Scotland is so “uniquely well equipped to be a successful independent country” that the proponents of Independence wish to rely on a foreign country for monetary policy, setting of interest rates, lender of last resort, allowing us to enter into a currency union with them, sharing their Head of State etc etc etc. We would be the most dependent Independent country in the world.
The energy of the Scottish Government would better used targeting the root causes of poverty rather than plastering over the cracks. The days of soup kitchens should be long gone.
I am tempted to apply for this building to be given listing provision (Cat C). A search on Historic Scotland’s database for similarly listed buildings/schools throws up some interesting results. Ultimately it would appear on paper to fit the historical and architectural requirements for such a listing. A listing would prevent demolition on any grounds. The decision to list is not made or indeed in the hands of the Council. I would happily apply for listing but would appreciate help in researching the history of the building andf its architecture.
This article has been the most optimistic and encouraging article I read this morning. It was the first article I read today. Sean you must mistaken enthusiasm with pomp.
“Aberdeen is the frontier town of consumer-capitalism… black gold in the sea and what should be a cultural hub from all the nations it attracts people from for their share of it, but its not…” I agree.
Good luck to all involved in “The Silver Lynx Sporadical” sounds like a great idea.
Some choice topics this week Suzanne. Football doesn’t interest me in the slightest, so I’ll skip that one.
Invasions are somewhat different. We’ve “invested” billions in supposedly “helping” those poor individuals in Afghanistan and Iraq. Very benevolent. Where did it get us? Well we seem to back to square one in the latter and the former was un-winnable in the first place. The poppy growers and heroin dealers triumphed. All we seem to have achieved is making life a lot more dangerous for ourselves, viz a viz 7/7 etc.
Deer need managed. That’s a fact of life. The problem is, as usual, the “experts” simply choose to ignore those who have successfully managed the species for generations – making a good few quid in the process.
Rhoddies are bonnie and, as you quite rightly say help our buzzing friends survive while we merrily go on our way trying to eradicate them with pesticides etc to enhance food production. The plant species has been known to be invasive for many’s a long year and there have been many interventions to stop it’s spread, some more effective than others. To eradicate it is going a wee bittie over the top however. Now giant hogweed would be a much better target methinks.
Romanians? Some years ago I flew, on a number of occasions with that country’s flag carrying airline, Tarom, to far off destinations. They were actually quite good, as airlines go. The lye over, in Bucharest, was spent in the cafe/bar in the airport where I had an interesting chat with one of the waiters. Expressing an interest in future exploration of his homeland, I was strongly advised not to. “Don’t leave the capitol,” I was told. “You will put yourself at risk.” Enough said. But, in saying that, every nation has it’s dodgy characters. Here in Aberdeen we have more than a couple of crime clans of local descent, so we have no room to talk really. Nigel Farage is an “English” phenomenon with little support north of Hadrian’s Wall. The main danger he poses to Scots is that if we fail to support independence, he may bring about the withdrawal of the UK from the EU and that would be disastrous for Scotland methinks. A bit of a dinosaur is our Nige. He could bring about the situation where those south of the border heartily sing, “Rule Brittannia!!” while the nation sinks beneath the waves instead of ruling them. Just a thought!
Did you miss the European election results? support is huge for a grassroots party, UKIP are being supported for a reason, they address peoples real concerns, the main left wing parties are being found out. Huge debt, mass uncontrolled immigration, illegal wars, the Country has had enough.
Well, let’s put it this way Bill: In Scotland, UKIP’s showing was pretty poor, compared to south of the border, down Watford way. Maybe we’re a more tolerant society in Scotland? If the UK pulls out of the EU, how many multi-nationals, who chose to locate in the UK as a gateway to Europe, would hang about? Millions of jobs could be lost to the indigenous population. Is that really what you want? My guess is that you’re right to a degree. Voters are dissatisfied with the mainstream parties and cast a protest vote. Will it recur at the next general election? Doubtfull, but we’ll just have to wait and see. Mass hysteria has been drummed up by Mr Farage and co, along with the tabloid press. Remember when he told us all that all of the population of theses countries would descend on us en masse?? Did it happen?
Sorry but you can’t hide from the facts here, over 80% of all shoplifting crime in London is carried out by Eastern Europeans, many many of those are Romanians. The more who come over the worse the problem gets, I said London but this story is replicated all over the Country, particularly the south of England. Many of these people have no intention of ever working here, what do you propose we do those types? I won’t even mention the human trafficking or prostitution gangs that are all predominately Eastern Europeans.
If they come to Aberdeen where do you propose we house them? we don’t have enough social housing for the indigenous people, actually we have a massive shortage, you can throw the racist card all you like but face facts, the Country simply isn’t in a position where any more immigrants can be provided for.
I agree on your comments re the Roddies, have never heard of them being a problem before, a lovely shrub.
“the indigenous people”. You’re a caird min Bill, brilliant.
How big is this racist card you want throwing at you, IMO ye cliché-ridden, statistic inventing, xenophobe? I’m nae that strong ye see, unlike those burly looking eastern europeans flooding the city.
Look at the court rolls for Aberdeen. The majority appearing in the Sheriff Court are local/UK residents. I’m not saying the problem doesn’t exist but it’s miniscule here compared to London and the South East. Changes to the benefits system have been put in place so those you complain about have to wait a fairly lengthy time to claim benefits.That’s fair and just. But UK citizens can hop over to mainland Europe and claim their much higher benefits as well remember.
On housing: Yes, there is a dearth of social housing. Why? Remember which government sold off council houses at knockdown prices and refused to build replacements? It wasn’t the SNP who have actually started a large scale rebuilding programme for social housing, not Labour or the Tories in Westminster. It would appear independence, while not the be all and end all, is a potential way forward in that and many other regards.
Leave the historic house as it is. Beautiful and a great centre point for the city.
Thought the wishes of the citizens were paramount in this plan for Broad Street redevelopment Seems not – as happened in the case of the UTG. Ask them what they would like to see – then do your own thing. Democratic governance – think not.
Provost Skene’s House has endured being hidden away these past few years and is finally emerging as the magnificent building and surroundings it ought to be admired for by the public. Its historic significance should be embraced and highlighted as a major feature of the heart of the City of Aberdeen. Not only is there the suggestion that yet again it is to be encapsulated by yet another glass monstrosity, the planners have the outright cheek to tamper with history by taking away the arch & wall….to what purpose does this serve? LEAVE WELL ALONE & let us true Aberdonians, other city dwellers & visitors/tourists enjoy what little is left that was built lovingly by our city forefathers for us & future generations. To admire and proudly present to the world, this IS Aberdeen, a beautiful unspoilt city…….
From what I understand the arch and wall wwhich are to be removed are not part of the original building, but were added some years ago in an attempt to enhance the appearanceof the building, arousing some controversy. The building itself is A-listed, and cannot be tampered with or altered in any way whatsoever.
Don’t touch it. I am so tired of the heritage of Aberdeen being demolished or moved. Please start retaining when we already have and keep all granite buildings “as-is”. When are the Planning Department, Council, etc going to realise that they are just infuriating the locals with their stupid attitude to change. I do wonder whether the people making these decisions actually have any real ties to Aberdeen.
With regard to the Muse Development plans for opposite Marischal College –
these go ‘completely against public opinion’ according to Councillor John Corall (Press & Journal 17/5/14). Additionally these now include proposals for the demolition of a part of Provost Skene’s House .
I have yet to meet anyone who thought these proposals other than banal and inappropriate and it seems most inequitable that a developer has power to virtually ‘cock a snook’ at what Aberdonians want for their city centre.
The frontage of Marischal College opposite is imaginative, splendid, dateless, dazzling, with a daring use of granite that we’ve never seen before.
Something equally innovative that can also stop us in our tracks is called for opposite. What could fill a relatively sizeable city centre site apart from office blocks and various glass structures? A single, breath-takingly modern building, a world class Institute of Offshore Technology.
A centre which would incorporate work already going on in this field, and at the same time reach out to the future.
Its proposed establishment in the ‘Oil Capital of Europe’ would take funding into a different zone altogether.
The oil industry would welcome it and contribute, while, of course, a few millions from Sir Ian Wood would not go amiss.
Diane Morgan- Published in P&J 4/6/14
With reference to the above comment by 4/06/14 ‘A single, breath-takingly modern building, a world class Institute of Offshore Technology’ ….’A centre which would incorporate work already going on in this field’ sounds more banal than what’s presently on the table. Has Diane Morgan employed a ghost writer?
Well spotted Steve … something obviously went wrong there when Diane Morgan entered her name. Fixed – Otherwise, Ah’ll nae tamper … as we generally dinna 😉
Thanks for that but Fred but, ‘A single, breath-takingly modern building, a world class Institute of Offshore Technology’ ….’A centre which would incorporate work already going on in this field’ I’m just surprised these are her words. A very different approach perhaps for a new book? I really find this odd that Diane’s passion and celebration for Aberdeen’s historic built and social environment has morphed into a need for an offshore show case. Aberdeen is already a show case for offshore technology. The last thing we need is for it to be showcased in the city centre. Too odd, far too odd.
Am I right in thinking that the SNP claim that independence will allow people a greater say in local democracy and power sharing. Because, if that is the case (from the above example) we can already see what the SNP do in practise.
Well Done Suzanne for making this go public! Last I heard was from yourself after seeing my rants over way my uncle was treated.! Just came across all this today by accident.!
There is a considerable history of local authority democracy being held in what looks like contempt by central government. The shape of things to come?
Wouldn’t it be nice if an open green space were to replace St Nicholas House, somewhere to relax and take in the stunning architecture of Marishal College and Provost Skene’s House? Some flowerbeds, shrubbery and small trees with plenty of seating. Ah well, one can dream.
A wis there on Sunday Duncan. A fair enjoyed the choochin billies. A wis chuffed ti see a BSA Bantam 175 motor bike on display as es wis the first bike a ained. As weel as aat there wis an Austin A30 motor car fit wis the first car a bocht. A can still myn the reg no. HRG 623. Bein o fairmin stock a wis interested in the display o auld tractors an it took Me back tae the 1950s/early 60s fin a drove ma faither’s Davie Broon 900 tractor. Gweed ti see sae mony young kids enjoyin the Punch an Judy show. There wis anither couple o “nae sae young kids”fa enjoyed it as weel. 😀
Cheers Bob. Was there on the Sunday as well. Drove a few bikes in my time but never a Bantam. Always wondered about the name though. Sounds a wee bit agricultural.
I understand the need to make the city money on its land, but by hooky, it MUST be possible to find someone with the nous, imagination and bollocks to design something sympathetic, appropriate, open and still make a bob or two out of it?
We finally have the numbers from this years 2014 event “2 North 4 South” – The exact amount that the event has managed to fundraise is £1483.33 for All Shapes And Sizes / and participants where free to raise money for any charity of their choice: £395 for D.A.W.G.S / £100 for Macmillan / £560 for Kidney Diagnosis at ARI / £72 for Breast Cancer Unit at ARI.
Also the event was planned for 70 folks, 18 booked in and 16 turned up on the day. And 2 managed to finish the event!
Great that our government are promoting this,but they cannot pretend that they are not promoting needless destruction of our beautiful land re AWPR esp Fast Link (development corridor) allowing urban sprawl all over Scotland.Our arable farmland is a non renewable resource and it is being covered in tarmac and concrete without a blink of the eye.Aberdeens wealth is based on a product that we that pollutes our air and sea,4m tons end up in the sea annually radio-active waste is a problem, so is plastic! Some day the true cost of our oil based society will be realised when the cost to our planet is factored into the whole production of oil and other extractive industries at the moment everyone is paying through the degrading of our natral environment and we do not yet realise what the true cost of that is yet ,
Couldn’t agree more; we’re not addressing our serious air pollution problems, we’re embracing urban sprawl, more pollution and tarmac all in the name of making yet more money. Someone in power should be getting the message, but I suspect nothing means more to those in charge than short=term profit (and all the usual money that follows big development)
Stewart Milne somehow gained permission to completely knock down and remove Dalhebity House in Bieldside, a beautiful listed mansion house and put a new build pastiche in its place. When I first moved to this end of Aberdeen, I went out for walks to explore the area and coming to the edge of the forest, I was able to see Dalhebity House and explored the ruined outbuildings, (I didn’t know I was on private land I just thought it was part of the forest). I feel very lucky I was able to see Dalhebity before it was destroyed, as I love period buildings.
Years later I discover it was Stewart Milne’s home which he knocked down (somewhere between 2007 to 2010), but what is very sad is that Dalhebity House was Princess Diana’s maternal grandmother’s (Baroness Fermoy) ancestral home where she was born and brought up.
In my opinion, Mr Milne SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED to destroy a listed building of important historical interest.
Ah the para – gliders of the world unite to visit Gardenstown? With the absolute greatest of respect, this appears to confirm the suspicion of some that the majority of Yes campaigners do not exactly have their feet on the ground. Hope all the crowds flocking to see this landmark fly carefully.
Didn,t see many crowds flocking to see this at the weekend . Perhaps a dolphin carved in the hillside would be a more suitable , and lasting attraction . It,s a NO from me .
Or perhaps they could carve a giant pork pie so that those para – gliders caught up in the airborne traffic jams could be as one with the pie in the sky promises of the SNP led Yes Campaign.
Typical response from the left wing no change to anything ever people on here, the one chance in our lifetime to have the chance to manage our own Country and some are too scared to grasp the opportunity, people are dying in many places over the World fighting for the right to have independence, in years gone by our forefathers fought for the right as well.
Why on earth would you want controlled by eton educated English people in London when we could have a better Country standing on our own two feet?? Do you think they care about anything North of Watford?
Ask yourself one question….why are they so desperate to keep us?
Now why I am I not surprised you’re a gnashionalist? Don’t tell me, your four fathers were Wallace, Bruce, Rob Roy and the mannie who used to sell Green Finals at the top of Market Street, or you were refused membership of the English Defence League after failing the entrance examination.
I don’t know Bill, what are we to do with you? Here’s a chance to convert me though if you can explain to me how my life will be enhanced by voting to leave the UK. Should you provide any semblance of a compelling argument, I will personally fly over Gardenstown with a Yes banner trailing in the slipstream of my para – glider.
I’m not a nationalist, I’m just someone who believes we as a Country are more than capable of standing on our own two feet, I can’t promise your life will be enhanced, you stick with the current situation if you like, they’ve made a fine job of balancing the books and looking after our health service. I’m sure the new super dooper rail line running from the south of England to the midlands that’s going to cost billions will enhance your life, as will the multi Billion aircraft carriers and trident replacement.
All those illegal multi billion wars need fought as well, those will really enhance your life, good thing we have great bankers in London making all this money to pay for things, it would be a nightmare if they ever messed up and needed bailing out.
I honestly can’t understand why anyone living in any Country would want it governed elsewhere, particularly given how things have went with the union.
This is a perfect example of SNP double -speak. We have the entire SNP/ Yes Campaign asserting that reported comments, made by a mysterious un-named Minister, to the effect that Currency Union could be traded for the retention of Trident in an independent Scotland, is proof that such a deal is a possibility, yet Mr Allard maintains, as does the entire SNP/Yes Campaign, that the removal of Trident is guaranteed. It is somewhat difficult to negotiate on the basis of retaining something you have already pledged to remove.
This serial fantasy being spoon – fed to the terminally gullible surely cannot be sustained for another two months!!
I always enjoy reading your informative and entertaining articles/columns but this one is exceptional and really did make me chuckle, as did Mr McKenna whose thoughts on the donning of “highland dress” are spookily similar to my own.
As if the World Cup wasn’t ridiculous enough, with it’s extremely effete participants rolling around on the ground and screaming in pink and yellow bootees for the mere pittance of around £300,000 per week, we now have our own tartan caricature of what used to be a sporting event with which to “showcase Scotland”.
1. I hate to break it to you but you are, whether you like it or not and by definition, a nationalist.
2. The Health Service in Scotland is already a devolved issue and not the responsibility of Westminster but the current SNP Government on Scotland.
3. Voting for separation will not, according to Nicola Sturgeon who expressed a willingness to negotiate on this issue, guarantee getting rid of Trident.
4. Saying repeatedly that a war is illegal does not make it so and there is always the possibility, no matter how unlikely, that an illegal war may be launched against us by another state. I assume you would then re – assign the Gardenstown para – gliders to defend us from rocket attacks.
5. The worst culprit in the banking meltdown was the Edinburgh based RBS, led by well known Scot – Fred Goodwin. The proposed vision of Independence on offer is based on the discredited assumption that a foreign country will step in to save Scotland if they do the same again.
6. The Union is far from perfect but what we are being asked to vote in favour of is a child – like fantasy based on nothing more than the hope and expectation that we are sufficiently stupid not to see how silly the whole thing is. The SNP ask us to accept a proposal that the whole of Europe will do what Scotland tells them because, well just because. This is not Independence, it is insanity.
I dont know who was responsible for security, but they certainly achieved the effect of an airport under siege. We arrived with pet (a dog) to be met with a large notice that said “NO animals”, and wondered if the animals in residence in UTG had been informed. There was also “NO catering”, NO drinking” NO eating” NO chairs (esp.plastic ones). We also were not allowed to see into the gardens, having been effectively barred from them. I would like to know why such high screens were necessary. The garden was not filled to capacity, and no access to Union Street was allowed along Union Terrace. The security woman with the sheep counter had a tally of 15 people on the terrace. Two unfortunate guests to the city and staying in the Caledonian Hotel had to persuade security to let them return to base. It really took all the joy out of the occasion.
With the threatened destruction apparently required of the wall and gateway seen so clearly in this photograph it astounds as to the extent that this elevation will be obscured in the proposed development. Is there a single coherent thought left in the planning department of Aberdeen City Council ? WHY has it reached the stage where massed online protest is trying to protect this pleasant antiquated environment ? Here’s a clue if you’re stuck. It’s the word ‘protect’ ….. I give up. I absolutely give up.
Deer and trees don’t mix, I know that as an ex-landowner and conservationist, trees and deer don’t mix at all.
The deer in Tullos are caught in a vice grip and I certainly don’t envy them. Yes, they will be killed, and reduced in numbers and yes of course right minded folk will grieve when they are gone.
The expansionist nature of Aberdonians is at odds with the countryside.
Deer, rabbits, lovely bunnies and nice houses don’t mix.
Deer and trees did not have to mix on Tullos Hill – 3,000 people and several community councils told Aileen Malone and the rangers that they wanted the hill to say as a meadow, continuing to support the stable deer herd that was there. This arbitrary tree scheme and deer don’t mix, particulary when some of those pushing it seem to have had a pro-culling agenda from the start (NB deer and trees do mix in the right conditions by the way)
thank you Duncan for alerting me to a rather awkward sentence which has now been I trust made clearer. Feel free to point out such issues, writers and sub-editors do appreciate the help.
Can you explain what ‘that’ you are referring to, which you think is ‘certainly a matter of opinion’? I think you’ll find there are many areas which have both trees and deer. In fact many landowners are protesting the guidelines as to how few deer the SNH want allowed on land according to their controversial guidelines; this has been very widely publicised. If it is something else that you think is a matter of opinion, spell it out so we have some idea what you are trying to say.
A golfer of my acquaintance predicted all this years ago, Bob, as being of particular significance re televised contests & championships – complete but unpredictable white-oot. That and the perishing cold, a real problem for elderly Americans accustomed to playing their golf in Florida.
The article identifies the writer; there is no attempt to cover up who it is. As to Aberdeen Voice taking a position on this or any other issue, as per the home page “Aberdeen Voice is a weekly independent online news and information source. It promotes Citizen Journalism in Aberdeen and the North East and is not affiliated to any Political Party or the interests of any private company, lobby or third party organisation. Its focus is to give a voice to the general public in the North East and to promote inclusion in affairs affecting the region.” If you disagree with this article, then by all means please do submit your own piece; it would be welcome
It’s a funny thing Mike; I can think of several organisations, some local, that will try all sorts of things to silence any opposition or criticism. When it comes to AV, as you well know, we publish what comes in and don’t impose a view or agenda. Why not write your own piece on the other side of the coin?
Having had to counter such claims many times, on many different issues over the past 4 years, I hope you will forgive the following cut’n’paste job. Hopefully it will clarify where AV stands, and has stood from the outset.
“I am sorry you feel that we have strayed from our neutral stance, and can see what leads you to this conclusion. We at Aberdeen Voice can only process what is contributed, and as long as articles do not breach or fall short of our criteria for publication, we treat each with equal favour.
Lately, more contributions have come from persons associated or involved with SNP and/or pro independence groups. Other than block, censor, or refuse to process any/all of these, which would go against our agreed principles and procedures, all we can do is to encourage anyone who believes we are not presenting a balanced menu to contribute material which challenges, or offers an alternative view/angle.
I also remember the SNP’s activities with regard to Menie and UTG, and over that period of time ( when we were accused of being anti-Trump, anti-development, anti-golf, anti-everything), I assured SNP supporters/members as well as others who levelled said accusations at us, that they were as welcome to write for us as anyone. The fact they failed to do so only maintained the perceived bias ( in their eyes at least ). Nothing has changed regard this approach. We are merely dealing with each article as it arrives in a manner which, within limits of legality, taste and quality, makes no judgement about the personal standpoint of the source.
Like a jar is made of clear glass, and only becomes a ‘green sweetie jar’ if all that is put into it are green sweeties, Aberdeen Voice remains the colourless jar and will display what is contributed in the exact proportion and shade of what writers and contributors add to it.
Funny enough, only a few weeks ago, on our facebook page, it was suggested we were a mouthpiece for the ‘NO’ campaign!
Next week? Who knows? Whatever happens, we will continue to process all articles which pass our criteria for publication, established and adhered without amendment in the 4 years we have been operating, regardless of the sociopolitical leanings of the writer/contributor, and regardless of suggestions that we appear to favour a particular side of any argument or issue.
As I say, I can understand there may appear to be an element of bias at times, but the perceived balance/imbalance of Aberdeen Voice is as much to do with those who don’t contribute as those who do, and although I appreciate your honesty, and understand why you have directed your comments to us, surely there is some scope to question why it is that other parties/campaigns are failing/not attempting to use our service.
Whatever the reason(s), they are not ours to address. Our neutrality extends to not actively lobbying any particular party/campaign to provide us with material, even if it would counteract any perceived imbalance.
However, I am satisfied that we have made it clear to all who question, and more besides, that we welcome material from all sides/camps, and should the situation change in terms of the nature and balance of what is contributed, then I assure you this will be reflected in the contents of AV.”
The complaints of pro – Independence bias are, in my view, not only unfair but miss the most important point. I have failed to discern any hint of bias on the part of AV and it would surely be considered strange were they to refuse to publish any article on the basis that those of an opposite view failed to take the opportunity to submit an equal number or indeed any at all. For my own part, I have not done so for fear that AV may in turn become yet another forum for the endless banality of the Referendum “debate”.
What I find objectionable is that, having been given the opportunity by AV to state their case for, or provide positive publicity for Independence and/or the SNP, the contributors consistently fail to respond when challenged on the accuracy or veracity of the claims they make. Such an approach appears to be at odds with my perception of the spirit of AV and is, in my view, impolite. Perhaps contributors might be reminded that in taking the opportunity to voice their opinions, they might accept the responsibility to respond to any respectful challenge to their often bizarre claims.
And so the nationalists continue to mislead people by suggesting that a vote for Independence will ensure that nuclear weaponry is removed from Scotland. Christian Allard and his colleagues cannot make promises on behalf of a future Government of an independent Scotland and cannot predict the outcome of negotiations between any such future government and that of the remaining member nations of the UK. Furthermore, the SNP Deputy First Minister has publicly stated that the existing Trident system will be included in any negotiations concerning the SNP declared preference for currency union with the UK.
Opinion will be divided on whether Mr Allard is merely mistaken or is deliberately seeking to mislead the more gullible members of the electorate. Given the consistency with which the SNP and the wider Yes Campaign employ such tactics, my own view is that it is definitely the latter.
I look forward to Mr Allard’s refusal to attempt to justify such cynical propaganda.
We do know for certain that if we vote no they’ll be staying 100% where they are. vote yes and we’ll have our own government that can then decide if they go or not, one gives us hope that they may go the other doesn’t.
Just an odd argument against independence, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Let’s decide for ourselves whether we as a nation need trident, I don’t believe we do.
I think the articles (like the one above), that have appeared in Aberdeen Voice in the run up to the referendum, will in fact encourage people to vote no to independence.
I`m probbly voting no.
There are a few fundamental`s I need to put in place before I can make an informed decision ;O)
Can i ask, and this is kinda off topic just a little.
If I visit a doctor and get referred to either a surgeon or a chemist. Is there any financial gain for the referring Doctor?
Oh, and if Scotland gets independance, will they drop corp tax a little to allow big business who threaten to move south an incentive to stay.
Will we be left with two big dodgy banks
can we stay out of Europe
Will Scottish silver spoons be just as bad as the Silver spoons plaguing westminster?
If independence is granted, does it mean snp will come to power automatically, or will there be a vote
if say Scottish labour “get in”, wont they just campaign to get back into Britain?
will we see the emergence of new parties
Can we treat criminals like criminals and not victims?
would we have an effective military force? ( I`m guessing strong military ties are in order,England cant afford a weak neighbour)
Also, will England go to war to protect oil revenue (Sounds far fetched, but it happens)
Doesnt oil and gas from North Sea land at Berwick upon tweed?
will pedophilia be properly investigated “up top” with no obvious stalling tactics and cabinet reshuffles
In Scotland, will we differentiate between some one who abuses 13-16 yr olds and someone who abuses 0-12 yr olds?
Will we the have death sentence back? It doesnt have to be in a nasty revengeful manner, just a bit of general anesthetic overdose, free up the prisons a little, save taxpayer a few quid (Do-gooders are just x-cons with time on their hands to lobby gov)
Do Scottish banks have to give the bank of England £5 in order to print a £5 note? and if so, if independance in realised, does the Scottish bank get its money back?
Will i need a passport to visit England
Couple of plus points for Scotland
Oil will boom as a result ( I reckon) as we distance ourselves a little from imperial legacies
Terrorist threats will decrease (same reason)
Scottish Athletes to cheer on at olympics (that would be awesome!!)
Any one else got any plus points, the ability to set our own taxes is hardly an incentive? :O)
To my mind angling is a far more strange activity and what is the point of catching a fish just to put it back.The salmon fisheries are a part of our heritage as well and have been around a lot longer than angling.
I hope that a way can be found to dissuade the seals to leave the nets alone. Our whole natural world is being degraded by mankind activities on land sea and air and our politicians are even talking about mining on the moon and living on Mars who is going to give them permission oh I forgot they just do as they think best and lie to get what they want I agree with Suzanne their are more important things to focus on,we need to change things but intimidation will not bring about a useful solution for all concerned.
Slavery was part of our heritage too. It didn’t make it right. USAN in fact are big business which fishermen of old were not. It’s a different world today and our rivers and fish stocks have suffered from over fishing, pollution and commonly; like in the Ythan from farming methods. Nitrogen rich feeds washed off the fields into the river, encouraged algae which changed the whole environment of the water, starving it of oxygen and the Salmon and trout which lived there suffered. Similar stories in rivers across Scotland. With this, of course Salmon stocks plunged through the floor. They couldn’t thrive and were not able to breed in the same numbers. In the case of the Ythan, this is something that river management have worked hard on and to their credit, anglers have supported their efforts by returning most of their catch. Enormous amounts of time and money have been invested in trying to improve Salmon stocks in the rivers and along come netsmen who purchase heritable fishing titles which have lain dormant for many years and start scooping up the fish that river management have introduced and nurtured to breed. I don’t see that as right.
Seals don’t normally eat a lot of salmon. They are too lazy. Faeces samples tend to show that they eat flounders and mackerel and other slow and readily available fish. Of course if you start netting near a seal haul out you are asking for trouble. That’s like leaving sweeties out when there are kids around. Hunt Sabs actually wear snood type masks not balaclavas. They wear them to protect their own identity, not to intentionally intimidate. Remember of an evening they have to mix in the same communities and this is for they’re own protection. Their safety could be at risk if they are spotted. If you read my comments below, I’ve come across USAN and they were intimidating!
Hi Vic Thanks for your comments and I do agree with them big business does tend to degrade our environment I have seen this in our countryside with the loss of numbers of our wildlife I can remember when every wee burn was full of trout and hares were a common sight this is just a sad fact not nostalgia.I will try to be more informed when I make comments in future
All the best
Hi Suzanne, I have already posted a response on the Stop The Ythan Seal Cull Facebook page. I hope you don’t mind if I repost here verbatim. I’d encourage anyone who enjoys the seals to join our page and join us. We are seal friendly. I digress.. My post.
Not sure that this is representative of the Pullars as Kirstin Wilkie, Andrew Wilkie, Morag Allan, Scott Hogg and I encountered them on the Estuary and found them Threatening and Intimidating. George warned the Ellon Times Photographer not to use his photo. Kirstie Ross, is he on this group? He also made threats to Scott.
The caught Salmon may be dispatched swiftly but they are caught in a net where they struggle to free themselves for hours. Hardly a trauma free event. As Michael Wood, said, it almost reads as if you feel sorry for the Pullars!?
You mention Elephant Rock in your photo. You might want to discuss it’s dark secrets with Elaine Roft.
Members of our group have met and I have been contacted by the Sabs who watch them at USAN. You seem to have accepted without evidence that anti terrorist police are interested in their activities.
They aren’t happy about that. But don’t worry they aren’t terrorists and are against violence in all forms. This weekend Sea Shepherds have once again intervened to prevent USAN from shooting seals. I think this was on Sunday ?Rob Read.
This was whilst legally they should not be fishing but were once again breaking the law.
USAN who trade as The Scottish Wild Salmon Company are already due in court.. AGAIN.
I have to give you credit though. I would never have gone out in a boat with these violent men.
I have though spent time chatting with Sea Shepherds and would do that quite happily any time.. I hope to visit them on location again soon. And I shall remember wine. Vegan of course!
Dear Victor, Thanks for making these excellent points. The purpose of this article was to record the day George Pullar took me out to see him in action and to put his points across. Having published the piece, it is exactly comments like yours I hope to see – thanks. I mentioned Elephant Rock specifically; the story is that the bodies of many seals were found there. Perhaps I’ll get some evidence for this, and other issues for the follow-up piece that I’m about to start, which will be the other side of the equation to USAN’s. And yes, it was absolutely horrible to see these salmon being destroyed. (Victor – hope you can get to watch the two videos soon)
The Aberdeen Voice article is in many ways fair and accurate but the comment “Having published the piece, it is exactly comments like yours I hope to see” politicises the piece in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable.
I confess to some bias here of course. The last time I met with George’s dad Dave was in the course of researching an article for the Leopard, he commentated then that many folk came to sit in his kitchen to take tea then wrote articles criticising his fishing of wild salmon.
My question is this: Is it right to write an article, moderate comments on it and also make comments regarding it?
Thanks for your question Duncan. Sorry that you feel uncomfortable. The main purpose of my article was to start a debate, and that’s what Vic Beattie is doing, and I’m grateful for it. I’m sorry if you think that opinion has no place in either article or commentary; I disagree with you there. In terms of moderating – for clarity, moderating posts is an editor’s job at AV, it entails making sure posts are legal, don’t descend into slanging matches and so on. Every comment that’s come in has been published in full without editing; they’ve hardly all been complimentary to me, but I’m publishing them. In an ideal world, other editors would be doing this task, but most of the rest of the team are off on holidays and so on. But for the record, we have many many contributors who have written articles and then gone on to comment on them. If I were selectively moderating, then I’d see your point.
PS Duncan – I note your comments about Dave Pullar offering hospitality to people and then being disappointed at what they write. Perhaps this is why I don’t ever accept any hospitality from anyone / any organisation I’m going to write about, not even a glass of water.
well Duncan, my answer is yes in this context. I thought that since I explained that I’m not moderating/editing/withholding any comments, that would have been the end of the issue for you, my fellow Aberdeen Voice contributor.
Again, no comments received have been altered; they’re all up there and no moderation, only approval, was required. Here’s a question – do you write articles and comment on them? Yes you do. Do I respond to comments on my articles, be it the one in question or other ones – of course I do – it’s called dialogue. It’s for me the most valuable part of writing – to get a dialogue going, get the perspective of others, and examine issues. And pro-USAN comments will be equally welcome.
Of course, a writer could stick to completely safe subjects and avoid any controversy, and churn out bland anodyne prose that couldn’t possibly upset anyone (or interest anyone). But I’m not interested in that kind of writing. I think you’ll find there is plenty of precedent for a writer to have opinions and include them in their articles, and be involved in any subsequent discussion that takes place. In terms of a writer having bias, did you see the Sunday Times article belittling/mocking Pamela Anderson for speaking out against the whale slaughter which Sea Shepherd is trying to prevent in the Faroes?
It is heartening to see the people of North East Scotland are beginning to see the potential of independence. Scotland is a rich and diverse country who’s strengths should be utilized to support it’s population, not punish them with the austerity measures emminating from Westminster. It is obscene that we have food banks in 21st century Scotland. It is despicable that the sick and disabled are being financially punished for the incompetence of Westminster politicians and bankers while billions are to be spent on nuclear weapons we cannot use.
The prize of independence will be a government that we can elect and depose, if necessary. That is something we can never do with Westminster.
Ach Suze, the Commonwealth Games uniforms were …. erm …. colourful. The Scotties and dancing teacakes were fun. Everyone had a ball (excluding some of the police and security staff it seems) and everyone fell madly in love with the lovable Weegies. A good few medals were forthcoming so it wasn’y a bad show after all.
Armed police? Well we’ve had them in airports for many’s a long year and I don’t recollect any of them shooting at random to move the queues on a bitty faster. Armed police have always been present in our midst, just not so highly visible. Strange, it’s the politicians and press that are leading the wails of anguish, not many members of joe public seem so perturbed. Personally, if I was in the process of being mugged and a gun toting cop appeared, pulled out his weapon and placed it to the temple of my assailant, I would be for ever grateful. If it happened to go off in any ensuing struggle it would save the country a small fortune in legal and custodial costs. It costs a small fortune to give out Community Service Orders which can be onerous as sitting in premises off King Street drawing pictures etc. That does a whole lot to serve the community. Let’s face it, there’s a section of the community who need to be kept in check so the rest of us can live relatively in peace. If certain individuals have to change their nether garments because a bobby pulls out his weapon, I’m all in favour. You must be well aware that certain criminal elements have access to guns (notably in the drug dealing fraternity) and that has to be combatted.
Aberdeen has one of the highest level of CCTV resources in the country. Personally, I feel safer because of that. Snooping by private companies is another thing. Of course, we could all turn of our mobile phones in the BID district and thwart them, but we’re a lazy lot. Apparently Facebook are even better at it and, if you’re really clever, you can thwart them also. The joys of new technologies eh.
Charitable trusts have always been a vehicle for tax evasion. Worse, in my view, are the companies that make a small fortune badgering us to support some charity or other while not advising us that up to the first year of “giving” to the good cause goes in to the coffers of the chugging company. Bit of a bummer that.
Finally poverty: We are, apparently, one of the richest nations on earth. We can afford nuclear weapons, but can’t afford to support the poorest and most vulnerable in society. Kids go hungry and pensioners freeze. Bankers and politicians in Westminster cause mayhem and expect the poorest in society to pay the cost of their little fiasco. Maybe independence will improve matters, maybe it won’t. One thing’s for sure, if the wealth of the nation was actually used for the benefit of it’s residents, that would be no bad thing and we would actually have a government that we directly elect and can remove should we choose to. That would be no bad thing either.
Here’s a thought Ron. The Police witness a struggle but are unsure who is the mugger and who is the potential victim and shoot you by mistake. Still grateful?
Yet more empty rhetoric, devoid of any substance or intellectual argument whatsoever. What are these visions which Mr Cassie seems unwilling to share with us? Do they include an aspiration to tell us what currency we are to use or are they simply of the Jeanne D’Arc variety.
This reads like a German propaganda bulletin circa 1936!!!!
Perhaps you have not received the booklet, “Scotland’s Future. What Independence Means For You,” Bruce. My copy dropped through the letter box yesterday and makes interesting reading. It states facts, not fiction, the norm from the “Better Together” group. It is genarally accepted by most leading, independent, economists, along with the vast majority of politicians, that Scotland is perfectly capable of going it alone and being successful in so doing. The lack of confidence in our nation by those residing there is concerning in the extreme.
There aren’t really any “facts” at all are there Ron. I will simply leave it at that and leave readers to ponder your failure to substantiate your claim.
Ok so Little Red Riding Hood would be safe whilst the rest of is would just have to take our chances then. Your blind faith in the forces of law and order, or at least our very own new State Police Force, suggests an endearing child – like innocence on your part. Ron. Unfortunately, some of us have direct experience of the serious issues related to the routine arming of police officers. Believe me, it is not something to be treated lightly.
In my limited experiences with The Police and legal system Bruce, I have always found them to be professional and competent. Perhaps yours differ for whatever reason.
My daughter and two of her friends actually won the Bucksburn academy leg of the Wood family trust competition, the food bank in Aberdeen that benefited from the £3000 were over the moon. All the kids who took part actually went to visit and work with their chosen charities, many of them still do to this day.
How on earth can you find a downside on what is a great initiative? In my opinion you’re bitter at any local rich person, one only needs read your weekly vitriol on Trump, Wood and Milne but for god sake, credit where credit is due. This is a nationwide project and gets kids interacting with charities, as you’ll have researched this perhaps you’ll tell your readers how many charities benefit “yearly” from the £3000 gifts?
How easy it would be for Mr Wood to go buy an island and give two fingers up to the World, instead he invests time and money into his charity, you really think someone of his age is doing this to hide a few quid from the taxman?? One wonders if he’d not upset the author here by daring to improve the City if he’d still come under attack.
Its great to mention tax avoidance, but I cant help but think a good percentage of tax revenue is just simply wasted.
if your talking about big multinational corps then fine, but the only way for the man in the street to get rich is tax avoidance, Our economy doesnt work if everyone is rich and nobody is poor. If you are poor, then its the economy’s job to keep you that way. New money upsets the balance.
As I read someone saying elsewhere, I’d barter goats if it gave us independence. Life is full of uncertainties, why vote no because you have some, do you really feel Scotland is best served being ran from London? Have they done such a good job that you don’t trust the Scottish people to match up to them?
They love us so much they don’t want us to leave, even though they state they cost us more per head than anywhere else, do you really believe this?
Bizarre situation when many people feel we’re better off not being ran by our own people, those toffs from Eton will see us ok.
Thank you Bill. I feel you have encapsulated the nationalist cause perfectly and your honesty is to be commended. One might think there would not be too many willing to revert to bartering goats for the right to claim Independence but it would appear you represent more than 30% of the electorate. Unfortunately, most of them make false claims about currency and a land of milk and honey to hide their maniacal nationalist fervour. You, on the other hand, are not in my opinion intellectually equipped to do so and, therefore, allow us a rare insight to the nationalist psyche.
I won’t bore you and Ron with too many facts but would simply remind any readers of the potential consequences of not caring about currency. Governments do not have any money but have a responsibility to provide basic things such as health services, education, pensions and the like. Traditionally, there are two methods of raising money to pay for such things. These are taxation and borrowing. High levels of personal taxation can and often do result, for a variety of reasons, in a reduced overall tax take for governments but, nevertheless, provide a substantial part of the required finance. The rest is raised by borrowing. Governments issue bonds, or IOU’s, which are purchased by interested parties with sufficient confidence in the currency and economy of that country. Governments must repay this borrowed money at a rate of interest determined by the “markets” thereby creating a national debt. The lower the confidence, the higher the rate of interest. Confidence is usually gained by a stable currency and what the “markets” deem to be a responsible approach to spending and borrowing. Small things, such as a refusal to pay a share of national debt or a decision to barter goats would inevitably lead to a collapse in confidence and inevitable bankruptcy. For those, such as yourself, who are happy to live the live of a bankrupt Bedouin, for the cause of Independence, this is not a problem but may not be an option for others.
You’re hiding from the main point, do you honestly believe the Scottish people are not going to have a viable currency by the time of the split? you deep down believe a government of our own wouldn’t be capable of doing this?
All over the World countries way worse off than us are managing just fine yet you believe we’re a special case, a Country who needs run by its neighbour.
You carry on living your life in fear, I do wonder how you ever manage to leave your front door of a morning though, what if you get hit by a lorry crossing the road??
For the record I’m no nationalist, have never voted SNP in all my days, in a Country of our own I’d most likely vote Conservative.
Thanks for the speel on World money markets btw, most interesting, 🙂
Dialogue may or may not have a place in writing. Depends whether you are writing for a daily or for the future. What happened to my piece about the Queen?
Thanks for your comment. Very glad you feel dialogue may or may not have a place in writing.
Again, it would be helpful for readers if we keep the in house technical stuff off of the comments page. For readers who might not know what Duncan means when asking on this piece about his article on the queen, he submitted an article which can be found here https://aberdeenvoice.com/2014/08/turra-show-celebrates-third-half-century/
I have no idea why it reverted to draft instead of published, Duncan; but I have published it again. Readers – from time to time I fill in on the technical side of this website, and do as good a job as I can. Readers can now read this piece on the Turriff show, and how Usan offered ‘mouthwatering’ wild caught salmon at same.
But Duncan – please do email the team when it is a team issue you are interested in – the comments section is for comments on the article in question. 🙂
No one is claiming it will be a land of milk and honey, I’m not even saying it will be any better, it will be a Country being ran by the people who live here though, we rarely get the government we vote for in Scotland, instead we’re ruled from London by the vote of middle England, I simply don’t see why you oppose the democratic wishes of your countrymen.
Actually thinking back I believe you did oppose the democratic wishes of your fellow city dwellers when it came to the gardens so it isn’t anything new.
As ever in these types of debate they’re pointless, you’ve already decided your vote, sadly it appears it’s down to fears and the what ifs, you go ahead and stick with the status quo, those fine people running our Country so well at the moment.
BTW As you’re so well versed in money markets perhaps you’ll tell us what our national debt currently stands at? please tell us how well the people you want to stick with are doing? TIA.
Mods, In the interests of fairness I don’t believe the personal attack on my self in Bruce’s reply should have been allowed to stand, debate is welcome, abuse isn’t. I’ve had many posts chopped in the past, no doubt he’s a friend of yours but please try to be impartial.
Dear Bill- the sentence “Unfortunately, most of them make false claims about currency and a land of milk and honey to hide their maniacal nationalist fervour. You, on the other hand, are not intellectually equipped to do so and, therefore, allow us a rare insight to the nationalist psyche.” has been changed to read “You, on the other hand, are not in my opinion intellectually equipped to do so and, therefore, allow us a rare insight to the nationalist psyche.”
This is the only personal comment I can find in the post; if you know of more, do let us know. And again, as explained previously, Bruce is not a friend.
I have witnessed posts from you in the past which have been, in my view, gratuitously offensive and which, in my view, have directed personal insults at contributors to this site. The nature of some of your comments have been, at times, bizarre and, in my view, spectacularly ill – informed, to such an extent that members of the editorial team have even felt the need to declare that you are indeed a “real person”. It is, therefore, unbecoming to complain when someone merely points out the extremely obvious.
In my opinion, your comments are consistently lacking any intellectual substance whatsoever and, in this instance, you fail to provide anything other than unsophisticated emotional rhetoric.
Should you, or anyone else for that matter, be in a position to provide a positive and logical argument in favour of Independence, I would be happy to consider it with respect. Until then, I will continue to pour scorn on this entire campaign of quasi – patriotic nonsense.
In your vitriol you forgot to answer all my perfectly valid points further up. You really do not have any time for your fellow Countrymen do you? People wanting the Country they live in to be governed by the people who live here is patriotic nonsense…aye ok mate. 🙂
Biased moderating in my opinon I’m afraid, if I suggested he wasn’t intellectually equipped in my opinion we both know it wouldn’t be printed. Remember the title of your site here.
Dear Bill Stephens, The answer to your question is that I don’t know how many school children have been made to compete against each other, or how many charities have expended energy on a competitive exercise, only to walk away with no funding. It’s to me rather a cruel exercise – ‘winner take all’ competitive approach to doing charitable works, which is decided on a voting system – and there is a tendency for friends to vote for friends. What I do know is that £50,000,000 is sitting around somewhere, and a few million has been spent on administering the scheme, while we have people in Scotland needing to use food banks. Animal charities are under more stress than ever before – and such charities are exempt from consideration of this scheme. To me it’s controlling, it’s unfair, it teaches that winning is all, and inevitably charities will invest their valuable time competing against others and walk away with nothing from a scheme run by a billionaire.
Every secondary school in Scotland is involved in the scheme. The charities have to expend no energy what so ever, the schoolchildren do all the work. In an ideal World it would be great to give every charity money but of course that isn’t possible. Your friends voting for friends comment is way wide of the mark, the judging panel comprises of teachers, they decide who wins on the merit of the debate put by the children.
As I’ve previously said the winner this last year in Bucksburn was the Someone cares food bank, they got £3000 that they were delighted about, obviously Aberdeen has many secondary schools so tens of other local charities benefited. The kids get to engage and work with charities, they learn debating skills and the bonus is some charities get much need cash, you may deem that a cruel exercise I think the opposite, I think it’s a very valuable lesson for children not far from embarking on adult life.
Don’t you agree that even having a charitable trust and funding it to the tune of £50 Million is an admirable act? I think you’ve dropped the ball on this one and your dislike of Mr Wood has taken over.
BTW If you can back up your argument with some hard evidence I’d love to hear it, perhaps a single charity that felt the scheme wasn’t good for them and actively cost them time or money? Look forward to your response.
I can’t wait for the wail of anguish from the “no” voters when the government of their choice delays, prevaricates, or just plain forgets/refuses to honour pledges made to Scotland. They have a track record of this unfortunately. You should have watched the excellent programme on BBC2 last night Bruce, presented by Andrew Neill. It showed the true reasons why Westminster is so reluctant to lose Scotland, something we, in the “yes” camp have always known..
Like yourself, I would also look forward to seeing the SNP failing to deliver on their grandiose promises were the Scottish people decide to vote for Independence. I suspect, however, that the loudest wails would be from the Yes voters who would find their blind faith had been misplaced. The No voters would undoubtedly be extremely angry despite being in a position to say they told you so.
I did see the programme but did not interpret the content in accordance with the Nationalist orthodoxy. I did, however, conclude that Trident will not be going anywhere. An independent Scotland of five million dictating to both the UK and USA seems fanciful at best. Indeed, this is beginning to sound more and more like an Ally McLeod team talk circa 1978.
Dearie me Bruce. You have such little faith in your fellow countrymen. No doubt you’ll be castigating Canada and New Zealand for their audacity in moving forward to successful independence? if they can do it, so can we.
Thought this may be of interest. This is feedback from the YPI scheme.
Case Study: What happens next?
Putting the children first
We’re always glad to hear some fantastic post-programme
engagement stories from our students, teachers, or charities
and in 2012/13 a group of pupils from Westhill Academy
in Aberdeenshire were a great example when they became
increasingly involved with their chosen charity – successfully
raising thousands of pounds for Children 1st.
Despite losing out on the £3000 YPI grant, the S3 group of pupils
– Kelvin, Callum, Nathan, Stephen and Ola – wanted to continue
to support their chosen charity. They went on to deliver their
final presentation in front of over 300 ladies at a fund-raising
lunch in Westhill, collecting £11,000. As well as this, the group
visited a nearby primary school where they presented to parents,
raised awareness of the charity and in turn, increased their funds.
Puppy love
A group of pupils from Crieff High School, Perth and Kinross, had
a slightly different follow up to YPI where they had the honour
of naming a Guide Dog puppy. S2 pupils Nina, Danielle, Eilidh and
Iona chose to support Guide Dogs Scotland when they took part
in YPI this year. After losing out in the final, the pupils went on
to raise more than £1500 for the charity – the target amount to
allow them to name a puppy. This was reached by fund-raising
activities including organising a musical extravaganza named ‘The
Cold Wet Nose Appreciation Society’ at a local hotel. The group
have now set a target of a further £1000 to sponsor the puppy to
become a fully-fledged guide dog. The pupils chose two names
– Alfie and Bobbie – and the school voted, with Alfie being the
number one choice by 5 votes.
wonderful. I’m glad some charities get some money. As stated before on other articles, I’m not happy with £50,000,000 sitting around in a charity account, with teaching children that charities should have to compete against other (usually other unrelated but worthwhile causes) and jump through hoops in a winner take all setting, etc. As you may recall from another article of mine, the Wood Family Trust takes as well as gives: it billed the city for some £20,000 in 2011 if memory serves. I think we can safely say we disagree when it comes to the WFT
I wonder if someone might be able to clarify matters for me. Food banks, which have multiplied by 400% in Scotland during the last two years of the SNP Government, are to receive £500,000 of Scottish Government funding despite the fact that the Scottish Government led Yes Campaign appear to be promising they may no longer exist following 18th September. Is this not quite a lot of money to spend to fund food banks for a matter of weeks or have I misunderstood?
I`m thinking, if you cant have Deer and you cant have tree`s on the hill, then whats the real reason for all of this? Does the council need land for more rates? desperate to build another school? Its landfill isnt it? Is the whole hill a natural feature, or manmade like a bing? (Sorry, Relatively new to Aberdeen(25yrs))
Also, as a citizen who like`s deer, can i pop onto the hill and destroy the tree that was planted in my name?
I live within 3 miles of this hill and have never seen it, (not much rambling since the dog past on, more of a Loirston loch man) Is this where all the quad bikes and scramblers go that you see in Tullos ind est on a sunday afternoon?
Dear John, if I follow the council’s ‘logic’ if they kill the deer (which they have), then the trees can grow (which I think is highly doubtful – it is a landfill swept by North Sea winds), then, er, deer will have a place to live. And yes, it is the area behind Shell. They have tried to discourage quad bikes and the like. By the way, I love Loirston Loch and appreciate it’s importance to wildlife. Unfortunately, it seems building around the loch is more important than the wildlife these days. And no you can’t take the tree allegedly planted in your name – but the weeds and polluted ground is likely to take care of that for you. Watch that space.
No mention of seals ? Blame the fishermen and not the seals ?
I been following the last couple of months on here about Usan fisheries and aint had the time to type stuff or show pictures that i wanted to show. I can now spare a few minutes to type today.
I been a salmon fisherman for 30 years and in all that time the salmon fisheries has reduced by over 80%. The number of seals has probably risen 1000%. Back in the 80’s alot of salmon fishing stations were licensed to shoot seals, and alot of fishing stations were paid a bounty by river boards for each seal shot. Evidence of seals shot was to cut the seals tail off and then hand the tails to appropriate river boards. This practise was still ongoing on at least 1 river board 10 years ago.
Since the closure of most of scotlands salmon fishing stations the seal population has been left to grow as there was no seal shootings in most areas. The control of seals could be seen as similar to pest control. e.g. forrestry commision killing deer, farmers killing foxes. But seals is a much bigger problem.
All along the scottish coast everyone can see the seals
are a growing species.
I read one reply to a story on this site where the person says seals don’t eat much salmon, thats utter crap.
I used to find lots of remains of salmon in my nets, mostly all thats left is the heads of salmon.
Seals will also attack dolphins and porpoises.
Most rivers i seen lately from aberdeen to inverness have lots of seals in them. I seen seals up the river dee & don, its just easy pickings for the seals to get a feed. What are these river boards doing to get rid of the seals ?
The Ythan Estuary is full of seals, its very noticeable to alot of people that the number has increased alot in the last 10 years. Not so long ago a gamekeepers dog went into the water there to retrieve a duck i think it was and the dog was mauled by a seal. I fear it won’t be long before a person swimming/paddling gets attacked by a seal in this area. Whats Ythan District Fishery Board doing to keep seals away from eating the salmon trying to get up the river ?
Its amazing how so many fish went up all the rivers when all the salmon fishing stations were active. Yet when most the salmon fishing stations closed down theres not so many salmon going up the rivers. So all you do-gooders, so called scientists, river boards, conservation groups. maybe you should look at blaming the seals instead of salmon fishermen. Heres a link to some photo’s i taken while working at blackdog salmon fishing station in previous years. its just a small selection of pics at moment but i shall add more when i have more spare time.
Perhaps, given the importance of the vote, everyone should be allowed a half day off work to vote? But then again, polling stations are open from 7am until 10pm, affording everyone, even schoolchildren, the opportunity to exercise their right to vote.
Why is it, when the countries woes were inflicted by incompetent Westminster politicians and inept bankers, that the poorest in society have to pay for the mistakes made? Just a thought.
Have to agree it should not be the poorest who should pay Ron and there can be no doubt that the banks, who were responsible for such woes, should have been better regulated by government. Your reference to Westminster and your previously and oft stated nationalist sentiments, however, suggest that you feel the Scottish Government might have been more responsible when, in fact, Alex Salmond had been openly lobbying for less and lighter regulation of the banks prior to the calamitous crash.
The possible consequences of an independent Scotland, with no lender of last resort, having to deal with such a scenario in the future is something all voters should consider. The consequences of an independent Scotland not having a broad enough tax base to fund future pensions might be too frightening to consider but a very real possibility nevertheless.
It doesn’t surprise me that the number of councillors responding to you is low. Councillors have a nasty habit of ducking and diving if anything contentious is placed before them. I have found Councillor Bill (I like my picture in the paper) Cormie and Jenny (I’m in charge) Laing particularly adept at this practice.
It is disgusting that food banks exist at all in 21st century Scotland. It is even more disturbing that those in work have to rely on them to feed their families to a basic level. At least The Scottish Government is doing something to support this necessary project unlike Westminster, who’s answer appears to be even more austerity cuts to make life even more miserable for the poorest in society. “No Thanks” supporters seem to relish this prospect with glee. At least the “yes” camp are trying to make some attempt to tackle the ever increasing problem. Food for thought perhaps when you cast your vote on September 18th.
I’m confused Ron. The Scottish Government call the existence of food banks a disgrace and are campaigning on a promise to get rid of them but offer £500,000 to promote them. You call them “disgusting” but enthusiastically support such an initiative. What immediate action would you like to see from either Westminster or Holyrood to negate the need for these food banks which didn’t seem to exist in any meaningful way in Scotland prior to the election of an SNP Government at Holyrood.
Agreed – polls are open a sufficiently long time and people should have enough time to get to one (every time I go to the one in Torry regardless of time of day, it’s just a handful of voters and the volunteers – very disappointing). For anyone who is completely unable to get to a poll, there is the postal vote. Here is a simple, useful BBC piece on the subject. Want a postal vote? Ask for one before 3 September
Deer cull acceptable for building but seal cull is not and they are in my opinion destroying our only access to wild organic salmon on our own beaches. Oh well toxic farm fish it is wrapped in plastic causing more pollution. I’d rather eat a fish from our own beaches than one of those places that use antibiotics, dye, kill seals and birds!!! Dolphins and otters in their anti predator nets. Ok our traditional fishermen use nets but how else do you catch fish??? That’s right you just scoop them out of a slimey fish farm! Local organic fish for locals without using chemicals and polluting the Eco system
in my opinion seals have ‘no natural predators’ and are eating one of the best natural food sources we have in Aberdeen wild Atlantic salmon is registered as a delicacy now
This should be Plan A – whether independence is gained or not. The positive money solution is simple, something that everyone should read about and understand. I defy anyone to study the proposal and not think it is a good idea.
Agreed, in a perfect world Money Reform should be Plan A but it’s not because it would be far too much to deal with alongside independence and whether to use Sterling or not.
First we have to get educated. Every citizen should be aware of what our money supply is and how it works.
Mark Carney’s Bank of England spelled this out in their Quarterly Bulletin 2014 Q1 (mentioned in article).
The best way to access it is via their website because it has very good videos.
The first two introductions under “topical issues” spell out how all money is now created by private banks as interest-bearing debt, except for 3% cash created interest-free at source for and by the people.
If you get the implications of this fact then you can see how we can never get out of debt without reducing the money supply and to carry out any major project to improve society we must get deeper into debt.
The heart of the matter is we are paying heavily to use private bank numbers when we could use our own.
This is where the Positive Money campaign comes in but Scotland has other fish to fry right now.
beautiful poem – let’s hope the people poisoning our birds of prey are found out and stopped (though I don’t hold out much hope for our wildlife crime officers doing this job)
Thanks Suzanne for your comments re poem.
Unless the wildlife crime officers get help from the general public in the rural areas their task is difficult. Some estate workers know what’s going on in the estates concerned but are frightened to give evidence as they are likely to lose both job and tied house.
This lengthy post is being approved with the editing to comply with Aberdeen Voice policy and to explain confusion, whether deliberate or not, on the part of the commenter:
First of all – “Pollution from salmon farms and escapee salmon are causing environmental disruption. Salmon nets seem to be growing in scale and quantity year on year.” The the devices on fish farms are not nets. They are cages, although they are made from netting. A net is for catching fish, a cage is to contain fish. [note – re. the sentences in question, the first referred to salmon farms; the second referred to netting. The commentor seems to think there was confusion when there was none]
2nd. Salmon netting is NOT on the increase. Salmon netting is down more than 80% since the late 80’s. [the government granted permission for the Ythan estuary netting; this is an increase coinciding with decreasing salmon stock in rivers]
3rd. Seal numbers are NOT on the decline. [they are, as referenced in the article. Commenter is welcome to submit statistics showing increase in seal numbers]
4th. “non-lethal methods of protecting salmon in nets exist” – Electronic seal scarers (Acoustic Deterrent Devices) do not work well in the sea when it is slightly rough, compared to in a river or a fish farm in still waters.
5th. “In the last three years dormant netting stations have re-opened and netting effort has increased substantially” Utter crap, dozens of fishing stations have closed down. Get the real facts on how many fishing stations have closed down in the last 30 years and have re-opened. I worked in 7 netting stations between inverness and aberdeen which closed down and i would love to know which of these has started nettting again.
6th “Would moving the nets, or avoiding seal area to avoid this mysterious damage not be a first means of avoiding destroying a seal?” The seals don’t have an area they call home, seals have been tracked swimming from aberdeen to orkney then back again.Then they go for a wee swim up the Dee then go back to sea then go for a wee swim up the Esk, then swim back to sea then go for a wee swim upto moray firth then test the waters of the Helmsdale. [again, if shooting seals is meant to be the last resort, what actions are taken before this final solution?]
7th. “Some 500 seals are in that estuary; it is a well-known, popular tourist destination. It is hard to not see a link between these two facts.” So no link between them 500+ seals and the ammount of salmon going up the river ? [the new factor is not the long-established seal population; it is the new netting]
It seems to me that theres alot of wrong information going out. Basically Lies in my opinion.
It also looks like somone has a thing against the Pullars or salmonfishing.
I typed a reply to one of the stories i read on here and no one commented on it. well here it is again, have a good read and go check out the pictures i put a link for. And you tell me a seal never touched that salmon or dolphin.
………………………………………………………….
No mention of seals ? Blame the fishermen and not the seals ?
I been following the last couple of months on here about Usan fisheries and aint had the time to type stuff or show pictures that i wanted to show. I can now spare a few minutes to type today.
I been a salmon fisherman for 30 years and in all that time the salmon fisheries has reduced by over 80% [your reference for the figure will be welcome]. The number of seals has probably risen 1000% [again, this is contrary to our references; please send reference showing 1000% increase in seal population and what type(s) of seal species is involved]. Back in the 80’s alot of salmon fishing stations were licensed to shoot seals, and alot of fishing stations were paid a bounty by river boards for each seal shot. Evidence of seals shot was to cut the seals tail off and then hand the tails to appropriate river boards. This practise was still ongoing on at least 1 river board 10 years ago.
Since the closure of most of scotlands salmon fishing stations the seal population has been left to grow as there was no seal shootings in most areas. The control of seals could be seen as similar to pest control. e.g. forrestry commision killing deer, farmers killing foxes. But seals is a much bigger problem in my opinion.
All along the scottish coast everyone can see the seals are a growing species in my opinion.
I read one reply to a story on this site where the person says seals don’t eat much salmon, thats utter crap in my opinion.
I used to find lots of remains of salmon in my nets, mostly all thats left is the heads of salmon.
Seals will also attack dolphins and porpoises.
Most rivers i seen lately from aberdeen to inverness have lots of seals in them. I seen seals up the river dee & don, its just easy pickings for the seals to get a feed in my opinion. What are these river boards doing to get rid of the seals ?
The Ythan Estuary is full of seals, its very noticeable to alot of people that the number has increased alot in the last 10 years I believe. Not so long ago a gamekeepers dog went into the water there to retrieve a duck i think it was and the dog was mauled by a seal*. I fear it won’t be long before a person swimming/paddling gets attacked by a seal in this area. Whats Ythan District Fishery Board doing to keep seals away from eating the salmon trying to get up the river ?
Its amazing how so many fish went up all the rivers when all the salmon fishing stations were active. Yet when most the salmon fishing stations closed down theres not so many salmon going up the rivers. [again, the drop in salmon numbers is a new phenomenon and it seems to coincide with new netting] So all you do-gooders, so called scientists, river boards, conservation groups. maybe you should look at blaming the seals instead of salmon fishermen in my opinion. Heres a link to some photo’s i taken while working at blackdog salmon fishing station in previous years. its just a small selection of pics at moment but i shall add more when i have more speare time.
And heres another thing, copying and pasting doesn’t make you an expert on seals. In my opinion you just read other peoples text and paste it. with no evidence of anything, wheres scientists reports ? When did a seal count occur ? what method was used to count seals ?
when you start copying an pasting from other sites try not miss out the important bits. e.g. – Catch and effort for fixed engine and net & coble net fisheries remain at historically low levels. Reported catches were 12,584 and 3,646 respectively, 5% and 1% of the maximum reported since records began in 1952. Fishing effort in these fisheries was 236.5 trap months and 78.5 crew months; the fifth and sixth lowest, respectively over the same time period. [can you pleaes supply the source for these figures? many thanks – Suzanne]
The fishermen know more than scientists in my opinion, all fishermen communicate with each other. Dr Peter Fraser, a leading marine biologist at the University of Aberdeen even agreed 5 years ago that seal population has grown alot. Maybe thats why he was licensed to shoot seals at the fishing station i worked at.
Even the river don river superintendant Jim Kerr and his bailiffs i had talked to most weeks for 10 years said they aint seen seals in great numbers like now.
I am well travelled over the years all over the coast and see the difference myself in the seal numbers.
Does your friend Michael Forbes agree that seal numbers are down ? I think not.
“According to those in the area 16 seals were shot, 14 were pregnant. An area expert advised that NONE had traces of salmon in their digestive tracts.”
wheres the autopsy reports ? photographic evidence ? this area expert what qualifications does he/she have ?
I think you’re just blowing wind, maybe you should devote your time to something else. How about salmon cruelty ? example of salmon cruelty = Thousands of salmon being caught by fishermen on rivers, fighting to get off the hook for upto 10 minutes or more. Just to be released and be caught again for more torture. All in the name of sport.
Thank you for your comments. Where I use quotes (which you call copy and paste) they are all referenced and serve to either pose questions or supprt points. And no, I don’t hold myself out as an expert on seals, salmon and our ecology: but I have grave concerns about some of those who do claim to be experts on a complex issue. in fact, thank you for this: “Dr Peter Fraser, a leading marine biologist at the University of Aberdeen even agreed 5 years ago that seal population has grown alot. Maybe thats why he was licensed to shoot seals at the fishing station i worked at.” – Perhaps someone who is engaged in shooting seals has an interest in ensuring seals get shot? People rightly worry about experts who make pronouncements about animal culls who are involved in the business of culling: we have this very issue in Aberdeen with rangers saying we have too many deer, sitting on a pro-culling public/private body, downplaying poaching (even claiming the remains of 4 deer found on his patch must have been from deer killed elsewhere – a most unlikely scenario), and taking awards for tree planting schemes. Experts perhaps should hold up their hands when there is a conflict of interest.
As for the cruelty of angling, I dare say anglers may hold a different view: in any event the fish goes away alive.
But you only copied the bits to suit your agenda in my opinion. [moderated]
No cull ever happened where i worked, just the odd seal that wouldn’t keep away from nets would be shot. And as you can see from my pics, seals captured by shallow salmon nets were freed and no harm come to them.
First, many apologies for the delay in posting your comment; we do aim to post faster than this. I still maintain, as do experts I consulted with, that the scale of the operations in place this season are far larger than the operations of the past. It is clear that salmon are not making it into the rivers from the data the anglers presented to me. I am sorry you felt you had to shoot ‘just the odd seal’ – what deterrents did you use? I am glad seals caught in nets were freed according to you, but we know that seals have been drowned in nets. However, the evidence exists that seals are being shot by those who are in the salmon fishing industry; seals have been shot in Gardenstown against the express wishes of the landowner. Deterrents exist, and after my research I fully support the work of Sea Shepherd in preventing this unnecessary slaughter.
(Bill’s comment has been edited to make it publishable; insults levelled at a Menie resident were removed)
Bill, I can safely say that the operations of Michael Forbes and his boat were considerably smaller in scale than those of commercial netting operations. I can also say that his small boat has not been in the water since the previous route he took to the water was locked shut – like other gates on the estate were locked, rather contrary to the laws in Scotland regarding the right to roam. I was told that two policemen advised him that if he went near the gate, he would be arrested. I hope this somewhat clarifies things for you.
At a time when salmon are not, for reasons unknown, returning to the rivers in sufficient numbers, you cannot surely be in favour of an increase in salmon – netting!
Furthermore Bill, I have big cute eyes and am a voracious consumer of fish but you surely wouldn’t be in favour of shooting me would you?
Do you think it is a good thing, in general terms, that rich people can use their wealth, power and influence to circumvent long established democratic principle and procedure and to control large sections of the media and local and national government?
Do you think it is a bad thing that contributors to alternative media publications, such as AV, take the time to try to ensure that an alternative point of view, free of vested interest or political interference, is offered to the public?
Bruce – I think you spend so much time undermining everyone you fail to be positive at all in anyway.
That is your problem in my opinion, can’t see the wood for the trees.
UK is a shadow of itself – Scotkand can easily go it alone.
Here’s some facts in my opinion
We’ll use the pound
Buissness won’t flee
We’ll be free to do whatever we want to diversify away from oil using oil revenue interest alone (like Norway)
We’ll still be trading with England as currency will be the same
We will still have the same trade compliance with no transaction costs – why would we introduce that?? Scotland wants away from stealth tax – it’s socio-democratic
You sound to me like a typical no troll to a lot of people on this board – even the no voters! Armchair critic in my opinnion
I believe it would serve the interests of the Scottish people better, regardless of voting intentions, if we tried to stick to the facts rather than adopting the extremely tiresome strategy of presenting opinion and assertion as fact and misleading people.
It is a fact that the vision of “independence” we are being offered is based on adopting the currency of a foreign country and allowing the central bank and lender of last resort of that foreign country to take full control of our entire monetary policy. A Yes vote, according to First Minister Salmond, would be sufficient to present such a position as the “sovereign will of the Scottish people”. To suggest, therefore, that a Yes vote would provide us with full control over our own economy is simply untrue.
Your assertion that all of the countries of Europe will be rushing to break existing rules by fast – tracking a membership application from a new nation which would, depending on the outcome of negotiations, either have no currency of it’s own or have no lender of last resort and, if the threats of the Yes Campaign are to be believed, may have just defaulted on it’s national debt is, in my opinion, fanciful at best. Your notion that member nations, threatened by separatist movements of their own, would not think twice before approving an application from an independent Scotland is, in my opinion, nonsensical.
To lobby for a Yes vote is entirely legitimate but to do so on the basis of what, in my view, amounts to wild and unreasonable expectation makes a mockery of the entire debate.
Bruce, you seem somewhat confused , First of all, Scotland will not be adopting the currency of a foreign country. The pound is as much ours as it is for the rest of the UK. The terms and conditions of a currency union will depend on negotiations between Edinburgh and Westminster – and the governer of the BoE.
Having a lender of last resort is not a requirement for joining the EU. Some would argue that by not having a lender of last resort it would make bankers act more prudently which would reduce the risk of another banking crisis.
I am already an EU citizen and have an EU passport. There are no rules to break concerning an Independent Scotland becoming a member – it is a unique case with no precedent in the history of the EU.
Scotland is not responsible for the UK’s national debt. This has already been acknowledged by the Westminster government who have announced that they will underwrite the entire debt. The SNP are prepared to accept a share of the UK’s debt as an act of good will but in the event of the Westminster government refusing a reasonable division of the UKs assets, there will be no reason for Scotland to be so generous.
With our track record and assets, there is no doubt that Scotland will gain acceptance very quickly.
This is exactly the kind of misleading information I was referring to. An independent Scotland would, of course, have every right to use any existing currency they so choose, including the US dollar, Australian dollar or rouble should they so wish. A problem with this is not only would there be no lender of last resort but those who would be representing Scotland in negotiations with the UK have already declared that currency union with the UK, in the event of a Yes vote, would be the “sovereign will” of the Scottish people and therefore no other option or Plan B is on the table. To achieve this, they would have to convince all three UK mainstream political parties to enter a domestic election campaign on the basis of an extremely high – profile and unpopular u – turn. Should they succeed in performing this miracle of biblical proportions then they would, I must tell you, most definitely be in a position in which their monetary policy would be dictated by a foreign country. There is no confusion here whatsoever and even the SNP leadership have conceded this point.
With regard to EU membership, you have failed to address the points I raise and I don’t blame you for that as these obstacles, according to knowledgable and experienced veterans of the EU Commission, are most likely insurmountable.
Notwithstanding the opinions of such experts, your suggestion that a new applicant state, as Scotland would be, could be accepted as an EU member whilst shadowing the currency of an existing member who had successfully negotiated an opt out of the Euro, whilst reneging on an acknowledged share of national debt thereby expecting that same member, whose vote would be required to enable our membership, to pay the bill on our behalf, whilst having no central bank to guarantee the value of our currency or bail out our banks in the event of a financial crisis and whilst setting a precedent which would encourage separatist movements in Catalonia, Pays Basque, Flanders and Corsica is, in my opinion, straight out of the SNP book of self – delusion.
Good luck with the campaign Denis but please do not try to fool people with such illogical and ill – informed contributions. The UK will decide if an independent Scotland will be permitted currency union and the UK will decide whether or not to veto our membership of the EU. They have all the cards whilst those in whom you have placed your trust are not only bluffing but are not very good at it.
I`m still 50/50, I truly believe Scotland is more than capable on standing on its own feet. We are a proud nation of Engineers, Inventors and Warriors.
When a man has to take his son to Spain for better treatment, maybe this shows what a mess the UK is in.
For me the NHS is the barometer of how we are doing. I just hope all the doctors and Surgeons dont decide to move South if things improve in the Scottish NHS
I think whats important here that regardless of what happens over the coming months, we must all stick together and respect the views of our fellow Scots. Voting YES or NO is neither a good or a bad thing. Nobody knows for sure what will happen next.
Can we de-privatise the postal service? 🙂
(Still 50/50, if I vote no. it wont be out of fear)
I’m genuinely surprised to read that a “proud warrior” like yourself is undecided but would agree that we should be voting on the basis of fact rather than fear and fantasy. Claims by SNP MP’S that only a Scottish Government can save the NHS and that we will be governed by UKIP, unless we vote Yes, amount to ridiculous scaremongering. As for their claims that an independent Scotland will have free childcare for all, free education for all, free medical treatment for all, free care of the elderly, index – linked pensions for all and will ban austerity, poverty, inequality and food banks whilst remaining debt free, well what can one say?
But why should we stick with Westminster which has not seen fit to save our assets? And I mean English assets as well as the rest of the UK’s assets. Over 50% of gas production lies within English maritime waters and yet Westminster (under both Labour and Conservative govts) has not seen fit to set up a sovereign wealth fund – here’s the evidence – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sovereign_wealth_funds
I’m not an economist but it seems like a sensible thing to do but the UK is NOT on the list. Nearly every oil producing country has set one one up – and can use the money to invest in infrastructure and their country’s future. I wonder where Westminster has put the cash? I reckon a sovereign wealth fund is a good reason to vote Yes it will go on sensible spending instead of bankers and privatisation and illegal wars- and by the way, 90% of oil production lies in Scottish waters.
Plus renewables are the future – and we have approx. 1/3 of wind and wave power in Europe – a country of 5 million has the energy capacity of 180 million. With carbon emission reductions Scotland will be at the forefront of a greener Europe.
The “Jarrow marchers” of 2014 who are walking to London to try and save the NHS in England are telling Scottish voters to vote Yes to save the NHS here – speaks volumes doesn’t it? But don’t expect taxes or National insurance payment to go down in England. So with a privatised system they will be paying for the “NHS” twice over. It’s horrible for r UK but at least we have a chance to prevent that up here,
So not only are we to receive everything free but we are to simultaneously set up a sovereign wealth fund and, at the same time, invest our new found wealth in infrastructure for the future whilst paying subsidies to encourage the growth of renewables.
In my view an independent Scotland may need its warriors from the off. what with the English helping themselves to the oil* and the Russians helping themselves to the fish
Looking at a little history, it was a Scottish King that United the Kingdoms. Does anyone know how many politicians there are in Westminster that are Scottish?
I dont like the notion being passed around that if Scotland Vote no, then Westminster will Claw back some of the power currently being enjoyed in Edinburgh.
Just now we have 3 goverments to appease. European,Westminster,Edinburgh, it would save us a few quid I reckon if we cut out the middle one, but still looking for another 1 or 2 good reasons to vote yes
Please don’t tell me our New Moral Army is to be fighting the English and the Russians at the same time. That’s been tried before you know and didn’t end too well in either case.
I’m not quite sure what the invitation, from the English nobles to James the Sixth in 1603, has to do with the number of Scottish politicians at Westminster now but am sure you will let me know.
You seem to be a very one – sided undecided and are extremely critical of anything remotely English/Westminster. What exactly is it which is preventing you from becoming one of Salmond’s brave soldiers?
Oh, your a no voter. Took me a while to work that out would you believe… 🙂
The westminster thing, was a poke to see how much representation Scotland actually has, there was no real link with what happened hundreds of years ago. Doesnt seem that long since we had a Mt Brown at the helm. Sorry if I appear ignorant, but I`m working hard just now to pay all these taxes and dont really have time to catch up on news and stuff, would rather be at the park with the kids.
3 months ago I was a definite no voter, but I cant help but think there is an important decision to be made here and I simply dont know what to do – along with a lot of other ppl
we cant vote yes because of a Tory Gov, we cant vote no just because we dont like Salmond
when i realised a yes vote doesnt automatically mean an snp gov, then it becomes interesting. for me anyway
Couldnt give a monkeys about currency, I`m always overdrawn at the bank, so I dont have any money to lose.
I do switch off when yes voters stick out their chest and cry freedom 🙂
Everybody has to go and see this film. Excellent article Suzanne, and for all those who are beating the drum for Salmond, think very carefully about how he has treated the Menie residents. I too have written to him and he continues, even now, to brush what has happened there, aside. Is this a blueprint for Scotland’s future?
No one is voting for Alec Salmond, the vote is to determine Scotland’s future and whether the Scottish people will govern themselves, please stop your attempt at petty point scoring.
that’s funny, I thought this piece is not about the referendum and this piece makes it clear the film is not about the referendum, but that Alex Salmond should be accountable to his constituents; he got them into this situation; he’s not bothered to go and visit them. What article are you reading, Bill?
and again, this article is about Alex Salmond (who is somehow ‘Alec’ to you) not visiting the people he’s been elected to represent who he knows are suffering because of Trump’s activiites. It’s not about the referendum. Perhaps that is a very difficult concept but other readers seem to be working it out
Bruce, Stop being so miserable in my opinion, and knocking every yes or undecided poster, we get it, you’re voting no. This doesn’t make you right and everyone else wrong. If you think the current system is serving you and the people of Scotland well then good for you, others like me think we could do it so much better, I don’t want the bedroom tax or people living on handouts from food banks, I want a fairer society which I believe a government local to us has a better chance of delivering.
I ask one question of you if you don’t mind…why are they so desperate to keep us? according to them we cost them money in subsidies, why try so hard with their project fear campaign if that’s the case. Tia.
Why ask if he’s going to following developments at Turnberry and Ireland?? Are you also going to ask him to look into every golf course that changes hands?
Interesting that Anthony says the following, “Something in our democracy is broken and we have to fix it.”
Perhaps he should do a documentary on democracy being ignored when the local people voted for a new City garden, that was the biggest slap in the face to democracy that I’ve ever witnessed.
With respect, I think you just might be missing the point. You see, these other resorts you mention already existed and did not require the intervention of the Scottish Government to overturn democratic decisions, or building to take place on land which had the highest level of protection possible, or lobbying by the business community, or the sycophancy and corruption, in my opinion, of the local media, or the clear abuse of the rights of private citizens, or lies about the creation of jobs, or the arrest of journalists for trying to do their jobs.
Please tell me you understand the difference Bill.
I know that Ford doesn’t speak for me, the worst kind of politician in the World imo, it was so right that his view was ignored, [updated to remove personal insulting comments]
when you say ‘it was so right that his view was ignored’ – what view was that? – when his committee voted to uphold existing law and protect the SSSI designation given to the sand dunes? To respect the legal protection given to the environment? That’s all he did.
It makes me laugh at the attempt to portray the Menie residents as persecuted people, they live by the seaside and had a golf course built next to them, not an incinerator or power station, a golf course, one that many people deem the best in the Country and one that is very nice to look at.
If this wasn’t built by a rich man I suspect the local socialists wouldn’t have batted an eye.
You want real stories of hardship try doing an article on the people who are forced to visit food banks in our oil rich city, the crocodile tears for home owning middle class people living on the beach is wearing thin.
Ye really hinna got a clue hiv ye Bill. Hiv ye ivver chatted ti the Munros ,the Forbes or the Milnes an fun oot fit REALLY wint on durin an efter the golf course wis biggit.Until ye div min ye really canna comment aboot whither or no they hiv or hivna bin persecuted. Fit class ye shove them in his git bugger aa ti dee wi the argument.A’ve bin a gowfer fer some 50 odd ‘ears an agree the course is a gweed een. Pairt o it jist shudna hae bin biggit on a legally protectit bit o grun.Naebody wis complainin aboot a gowf course per se.
[ this post moderated to comply with Aberdeen Voice policy]
Bob, in my opinion if this course was built by joe bloggs it would be a non story.
My folks house used to look out onto fields, now it is Bucksburn academy, where is the story of their hardship??
If Trump built it you lot would be all over it in my opinion.
The funny thing is I think that the set of writers here will all be at the music hall this weekend indulging in the arts, I don’t think there isn’t a low earner amongst you all, the arty set in my opinion, who I believe are sitting in brewdog putting the World to rights while massaging wax into your trendy moustache. I don’t believe this isn’t the Aberdeen voice, I believe it’s a platform for left wing vegans, the causes you are following are all aimed at middle class rich people in my opinion.
Don crossing going through Tillydrone has been ignored, food banks have been ignored, the masive lack of social housing, again ignored, i believe you’re you’re all in a middle class bubble attacking those richer than you, the real problems are the people under your upturned noses.
A golf course where in my opinion a half dozen families have been inconvenienced has been on these pages for Months, come on Bob, you must see that starving poor families are a bigger issue.
Enjoy the music hall day btw, I’m sure the paintings will be nice.
Dear Bill, There is so much wrong with what you say in this post, I’ll find a better way to spend my time than countering all your claims. I am sorry you’ve missed all the articles and comments in AV that have dealt with urban sprawl and over development; somehow they seem to have eluded you. I am sorry to think you believe the objection to all of the things going on at Menie is solely that Trump’s been involved. You cannot have digested the articles documenting the lack of democracy, the illegal treatment of people, the contempt for the right to roam, etc. etc. I am trying to figure out how you object to some urban sprawl, chide us incorrectly for ignoring the issue, but at the same time are in favour of urban sprawl at Menie, and the loss of legal protection from a completely unique, important dune system. It is, to me, completely incongruent.
But your contempt for the arts is one thing. ‘Indulge in the arts?’ – I think you’ll find that for some of us, arts practice, appreciation of art is an enriching experience, and one that need not cost any money at all.
If you think Trump and Wood and their ilk are middle class, I wonder who you class as rich?
And yes, there are been articles and posts about food banks – it is a crime we need them in 21st century UK.
well, the implication seems to be that ‘indulging’ in the arts is an affliction of the middle classes; I can assure you that the Trumps and Woods likewise indulge in culture. In fact many people with little money find that the arts are accessible (and even moving, thought-provoking and stimulating to some of us).
The edits on my post have been done to make me look like a thick uneducated mutant, the “I believe” stuff was not my writing. You should not edit peoples posts without their permission, just because I disagree with you does not mean I’m attacked in this manner.
Nothing I wrote was anywhere close to being defamatory, your editing has been done to detract from my perfectly valid opinions, I’m born and bred in Aberdeen, my “Voice” is as valid or even more than yours.
To clarify; in my opinion you’re posting articles aimed at your audience, ie the brewdog middle class people you know, the people of Aberdeen who you claim to be the voice for have way bigger worries than a half dozen middle class people living on the edge of a golf course being inconvenienced. Come into the real World. [post moderated – sorry Bill, if you keep stating things as facts, or insulting people, the post will be moderated. nothing in the moderation has taken away from the gist of your comments]
Bill’s many posts will be moderated the same way as anyone else’s. Stating things as facts which are not factual (and in some cases are insulting, which is unnecessary to make comment on an article, then expect ‘in my opinion’ or ‘I believe’ to be added to such statements to make it clear that they are not factual). Bill, dear – perhaps you should find something else to be reading; my work does seem to upset you so. As to Brewdog’s customers all being middle class, they’re very amused to hear it. Bill, we will either edit any such further posts from you, or we will simply not be able to use them. Defamation is not the only reason a post will be moderated; you must surely realise that. If anyone believes they look like a ‘thick uneducated mutant’ due to the words ‘I think’, or ‘I believe’ being added to make it clear to readers that something is an opinion and not a fact, well, there is little we can do about that except to ask the poster to reconsider their position. It is hardly an ‘attack’ of any sort to clarify fact from opinion.
So the not at all confused man who claims to vote for the Conservative and Unionists AND for the socialism of those Scottish nationalists espousing Independence, whilst clearly having a bit of a thing for rich people and dismissive of those he considers to be socialists now wants to champion the cause of those who use food banks. Just one question Bill because I know you never answer anyway:
I will vote conservative in a independent Scotland, I despise Socialists and I believe that you are the embarrassment my friend, you seem too scared of letting go of the spivs in Englands coattails, too scared to let the people of our Country run our Country. I believe you will have to explain what I see as your weakness to your children in years to come, how ashamed of you I think they’ll be as our Country crumbles beneath us. [post moderated. Bill, can you please try to contain your remarks to factual comments rather than personal attacks, thank you]
I’m terribly sorry that I disagree with Keith, John, Denis, Terry and yourself but if someone uses a forum to make claims which I believe to be false and misleading then I am entitled to respond.
You refer to “them” and “they” and a “project fear”. I assume from this that you are referring to the other members of the UK – England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Can you provide me with an example of this “project fear” campaign which you allege they are conducting so that I can respond to your question please?
Now you seem to be acting as a medical expert taking up the time of people working at a no doubt busy hospital. The Czech clinic they were intending going to is in the Eastern block, it’s also no where near Malaga where they were, with the best will in the World they won’t have better treatment available than a British hospital.
Alternative therapies are all well and good but you have to trust the Paediatricians who have years of experience before anyone else, if they thought the child would receive better treatment in England then they are best placed to make that decision.
I think it is pretty crass digging into the hospitals past I think,I would imagine most hospitals have had things go wrong over the years and most hospitals will use trial drugs, it’s how medicine has advanced over the years.
You should stick to local matters imo. [post moderated]
The rest of us seem to have read about how parents who decided on a legitimate course of treatment for their child were treated like criminals, and the boy subject to the unnecessary stress of separation from them. The police now concede there was no need to take the course of action they took. The hospital have a media team, well paid and meant to reply to questions – they chose not to. This ‘alternative therapy’ you refer to has some amazing results. But well done for spotting Malaga is not near the Czech clinic. I’m just glad they are together, that the child will have the treatment which other physicians than those at Southampton (which didn’t want to pay for this treatment – it was therefore at least in part a financial, not a clinical decision) feel will help. This child, as the article shows, is not the only case of a hospital taking draconian measures against patient and relative wishes. Best wishes to the King family
Mr Wood says – “You refer to “them” and “they” and a “project fear”. I assume from this that you are referring to the other members of the UK – England, Wales and Northern Ireland. ”
I’m friends with “other members of the UK” as we all are. Most of my English friends are voting Yes (and there are still Scottish people on the No side.) So trying to frame this debate along national lines is wrong, misleading and divisive.
The Yes side has got support from everywhere – Tories for Yes, Lawyers for Yes, English for Yes and even Celtic and Rangers fans United for Yes. Isn’t that unifying? This isn’t a national issue – it’s an issue of self determination, social justice and internationalism as Scotland wants to stay inside Europe. Attempts by desperate No supporters to say Yes voters are a bunch of insular racist types is a bit sad and pathetic.
Question – why do you think that the only grouping that hasn’t got a pro-independence element were Bankers. I couldn’t find any “Bankers for Yes at all. That speaks volumes.
I just wanted to let you know that once upon a time, during the dim and distant days of my gloriously decadent youth, and after an evening of spectacular over – indulgence, I was on my way home from Bucksburn when I was abducted by aliens who just so happened to be ” thick uneducated mutants”. Having read some of the comments here, I have decided, in retrospect, that they were actually relatively intelligent.
I just felt the need to share this with you so that you might stop indulging in the negative stereo – typing of my old friends.
Eh Suzanne fit hiv a said ti upset ye. Am assumin ye mint ti say Dear Bill in an earlier post instead o Dear Bob.
As regards comin ti see the film “A Dangerous Game”. A’m gutted a canna mak it bit hope ti see it a later showin.
An Bill git a grip min. Yer bias agin onybody fa his a go at Trumpie is weerin a bit thin.A’ll say it again. It his got nithin ti dee wi Trump bein rich!!!It his got nithin ti dee wi Trump bein rich!!! It his nithing ti dee wi Trump bein rich !!!. His es sunk in yet. No –Then a’m sorry bit yer past help.Oh an bye the wye a’m neither socialist nor Tory an ma wife an I SURVIVE on oor pensions. Ye canna pigeon hole fowk jist cos they happen ti hae a particular view.
well spotted Bob, and thanks – have corrected ‘Bob’ to ‘Bill’. Intelligent, logical corrections always welcome by me, and are appreciated. We’ll get you to a showing of A Dangerous Game; it’s oot for 7 days at CineWorld – not that you’d know that from the P&J which, I was told, omitted the film from its listing of films playing in the area. No doubt they will correct their error just as I corrected my error once you pointed it out to me.
My wife and I had reserved seats for Friday but we had to cancel at the last minute. Real shame as I had hoped to have the opportunity to meet you and other contributors to AV. We will try to get there some time this week.
PS – the film has been held over! Almost unprecedented for a documentary to get a major cinema chain like CineWorld to release it in the first place, but it is not only held over, it’s going to other theatres as well! Am very pleased for all involved. Check the CineWorld link for more info – see article.
Again Bill I suspect you are castin aspershuns agin Cooncillor Ford withoot ivver spikkin ti the mannie.
“The worst kind o politician in the warld” Michty me Bill ye must meet a helluva lot o politicians afore ye can come up wi es view.. Funnily aneuch Martin Ford wis voted as bein een o the top three guests fowk liked ti listen till on Lesley Riddoch’s radio programme a fyow ‘ear ago. Es poll wis teen amang listeners ti BBC Radio Scotland. Check it oot yersel if ye dinna believe me
I have spoke to him Bob, many times, I don’t like the man or his opinions, in my opinion we’d still be living in caves if the likes of him had led us through the years.
Anyone who commutes in Aberdeen knows we need better infrastructure, my commute from Dyce to Bucksburn has been near the hour mark this week, new industrial estates are springing up everywhere, you ask his opinion on this and it’s cycle paths we need, in my opinion that isn’t a bad thought but it needs to be coupled with road building, we need this bypass and dual carriageway from the airport to the City with flyovers instead of roundabouts, your stand up politician wants none of these, we don’t need the bypass in his opinion.
I’m all for being green but anyone who objects to every improvement to our infrastructure shouldn’t be a councillor, we can’t stand still, with a growing population you need houses and transport, your man Ford likes to block, he doesn’t offer many alternatives imo.
Wind power is the big green argument, you drive to Huntly and tell me those subsidised bird and bat killing monstrosities are what you want to see all over our Countryside and coast, they’re lauded on the Aberdeen Voice as Trump doesn’t like them, who cares they kill dolphins, whales and inland wildlife, Trump doesn’t like them, they’re good.
I get people calling me not intelligent enough to debate with here, it goes unmoderated, the editor even backs the author of that yet all my posts get picked apart and moderated, my facebook has even been snooped on and used against me to the point I don’t use my real name here. I am the Aberdeen voice, I’m a lifelong citizen here, my views on the gardens debate were shared by over 50% of the people living here, it’s a real shame imo that people are put off from posting in the comments section, I’ve had people say to me they’ve seen me getting attacked for my views and they agree with me but won’t post due to my treatment. You and your friends really need to either change the title of this publication or stop attacking anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
[Bill, we do try to pass as many comments as we can without moderation or amendment of any kind. Whilst your posts are the only ones you can know to have been moderated and how, I can assure you that yours are not the only ones moderated. Moderation, rather than being a process of cutting out, is more aimed at keeping content in, and thereby keeping the poster included and engaged in discussion. We do not always indicate that posts have been moderated, and when we do, it is as a means of providing advice and guidance to enable posters to self moderate … thereby making it unnecessary for us to do so. – Moderator]
It is my belief that Grampian police are almost entirely corrupt and/or incompetent. If they are a fair example of Scotland’s public services then god help the Scottish people if they vote yes to independence.
I couldn’t agree with you more. Why any right thinking person would want to vote no is an anathema. Like you, when travelling overseas, I was always asked if I was English. The most memorable occasion being in the high Andes of Peru. As you say, when I informed the questioner that I was Scottish I was greeted with open arms, even provided with a free, albeit basic, meal by people who had little of their own. I will be proud to vote yes to return my homeland to her rightful position on the world stage but bear no malice to our friends south of the border. In my book, we’re aw Jock Tamson’s bairns but with differing political aspirations and outlook.
Are you suggesting that the natives of the high Andes of Peru, on hearing you were Scottish, suddenly thought ” he’s Scottish and therefore has different political aspirations and a different outlook to the English so let’s give him some food” Really?
Honestly, this on – going nationalist theme suggesting we are morally superior to the English is wearing a bit thin and is, in my view, offensive. I suspect we share similar values Ron and I respect your views but claiming moral superiority on the basis of race is, in my opinion, distasteful.
Who said anything about moral superiority Bruce? They (The Peruvians) seemed to have the opinion we (The Scots) were more desirable companions, for whatever reason. Perhaps they have taste?
PS – I had a reply from Police Scotland. Absolutely no emails or pieces of correspondence can be located concerning how the Aberdeen event was organised. However, on the day this was the deployment:
“For simplicity, I propose that the Security Escort Team members and not others such as Local Policing etcetera be considered. The daily deployment comprised of:
1 x inspector (as security commander);
3 x sergeants (as running team leader, staff officer/loggist to commander and motorcycle supervisor); and
24 x constables (as security escort running team (x7), flexible support team (x7), motorcyclists (x6) and drivers (x4 incl. convoy commander))
Isles = 1 + 2 + 15 on average but not for every location, e.g. advance team travelled ahead and was augmented by others on the relevant day.”
so our little day out turns into be a rather expensive exercise in police muscle flexing.
This is one of the more ironic offerings from the SNP. Dr Whiteford suggests that Scotland is “better placed” to provide a dignified retirement and may, therefore, not have to raise the retirement age. Meanwhile, Nicola Sturgeon suggests an independent Scotland may not have to raise the retirement age because we die earlier!
Well I recon I’d rather go with their version of events than that offered by “better together” – 57, 58, 65, 84, or maybe an invite to the euthanasia clinic at the good old, “three score years and ten.” That would certainly help the benefits bill reduction policy. Given the austerity problem has caused said bill to rise, not fall, has it been worthwhile causing such pain and grief to the poor and disabled in society?
Whilst I certainly do not agree with many of the policies of the current UK Government, there has been no evidence presented to demonstrate how an independent Scotland, or quasi – independent Scotland in the event of currency union, will do any better.
You appear to taint your article before it starts by your inability to refer to the term “English” without resorting to the infantile use of the derogatory term “Engerlish” Are you really that bitter?
The rest of your article is dedicated to the attempted propagation of the quite incredible proposition that a nation of 60,000,000 will “have no choice” but to bend to the will of a neighbouring nation of 5,000,000. You have already admitted and clearly demonstrated your difficulty with economics and seem determined to exhibit a similar lack of expertise in relation to the reality of nationhood. Can you offer anything at all, by way of substance, to support assertions, which you yourself confess have been arrived at from a position of complete and utter ignorance of the subject matter?
Couldn’t agree with what you say more. If we consider the fact that New Zealand, when they gained independence, retained The Pound for many years before moving to a currency of their own, why not Scotland? New Zealand is similar in population to Scotland but does not have the same natural resources as Scotland does/would have, which is why most economists believe that Scotland could be a successful independent country.
Given as is said above, the UK debt is increasing, not decreasing, the loss of 10% of contributions to pay it down could prove more than a little problematic for rUK. If Scotland were to move to it’s own Pound in the fullness of time, that currency could well become worth more than the rUK Pound, a frightening thought for Westminster, hence all the sudden panic and trips north for senior politicians in the Better Together camp.
Independence could be very good for Scotland but a disaster for rUK.
For the avoidance of doubt, I feel I should point out that New Zealand was not part of the UK, had no UK debt liability and did not, at any time, enjoy currency union with the UK. They used the Pound in the same way as anyone can use the Pound but did not have access to a UK based lender of last resort.
Should Scotland, which unlike New Zealand is part of the UK and has a UK debt liability, decide that their Plan B is to use the Pound without access to a lender of last resort and refuse to accept ANY and ALL liabilities, then it will, in so doing, waive their right to ANY and ALL of the assets, including those assets in the North Sea.
The inevitable consequence of saying, as First Minister Salmond has, “no assets then no liabilities” is “no liabilities then no assets”. It is morally and legally impossible to walk away with no debt and with the most valuable assets and to attempt to do so would, in my opinion, be completely insane.
I think you’ll find your reference to The North Sea to be wrong in international law Bruce.
The basic point I was making was NZ is a perfectly sound, small, independent country. Are you disagreeing with that fact? Leading on from that statement of fact, there is no reason cannot be likewise with all the resourses that we have that NZ does not.
We are of course talking about independence Bruce. NZ is now independent, as are Canada, India, Australia and many other countries, all once part of The British Empire, or would you care to hair-split in regard to all of them. These days are gone and I think the people of Scotland have seen through the “benefits” of “better together” – food banks, starving, cold, pensioners, gross mismanagement of the economy etc etc.. Time to move on methinks.
I live in Torry…in a council flat so my comments are not influenced by property prices. I do a safety critical job and work shifts. Some nights the noise from the generators on the boats in the harbour is unbearable and even with double glazing I can hear it. If I want to open my window there is not much chance of sleep. The noise depends on things like wind direction so some nights there is a bit of respite…however if the bay was developed as a harbour that would be added noise plus extra nights noises as wind direction may mean noise from there on different days. Also the bay is an important leisure space for the local community. It is looking a bit sad just now…could do with a bit of a facelift and regular litter collections plus at the moment the smell from the sewage is evil. The residents of Torry deserve something to be done to enhance their wellbeing not drop yet another industrial nuisance on our doorstep. Sort the smell out and give us back our beach…
First of all Ron, you cannot promote the use of international law in relation to rightful claims to assets whilst ignoring such law in relation to liabilities. I know reality is a difficult concept for nationalists but they will have to come to terms with it sooner or later.
There is, as you say, nothing stopping Scotland from being a successful independent country but it is not “hair splitting” to point out that comparing Scotland with imperial colonies of the UK, who were not part of the UK and who did not, at any time, use the Pound as part of a currency union is quite ridiculous. Scotland is not a colony of the UK, it is an integral part of the UK and was an enthusiastic partner in the imperial rule and exploitation of colonies such as those you mention. Neither Canada, Australia, India or New Zealand sought independence on the basis of relying on the Bank of England to dictate their monetary policy or to bail them out in the event of problems. This is what made them truly independent as opposed to the cowardly and pathetic half – way option favoured by Scottish Nationalists.
Hi Bruce. So what you’re telling me is that New Zealand did not use the Pound for a lengthy period after gaining independence, whether or not the Bank of England was Bank of Last indulgence?
Of course they “used” the Pound but, as anyone can do, but not as part of a “currency union” as proposed by the Yes Campaign/SNP and their supporters. This would not have been permitted in the case of New Zealand and will not be permitted in the case of Scotland. As things stand, and I’m listening to Alex Salmond confirm this as I type, no alternative to currency union is being considered.
Using the Pound independent of the Bank of England is, as you say, one option but there will be negative consequences, which perhaps explains the reluctance of the Yes Campaign to announce this as their Plan B.
What would be be your preference Ron; Pound without the B of E or Euro?
“Who said anything about moral superiority”? The entire Yes campaign, including many of your own contributions, assert that Scottish people place more emphasis on social justice and equality than our southern neighbours. Indeed, this is quite often the only argument provided in favour of Scottish Independence.
If you are not, for a change, making such an assertion, what is it you feel is different about our “political aspirations and outlook”?
On the subject of international boundaries: You seem to be saying that all the eminent lawyers, academics and indeed senior politicians are wrong that, in their opinion, Scotland would have entitlement to 90% of the oil that lies in the North Sea in Scottish waters. Have I got that correctly? There has always been a border between Scotland and England as you well know. You may even recollect that, in fairly recent times Westminster had the audacity to move that border line over the North Sea to their advantage.
What I am saying is that you can’t have it both ways. There is not even the remotest chance that Scotland can walk away from the UK with assets but no liabilities. Even attempting to do so would result, as I see it, in the most severe repercussions for an independent Scotland.
Should Scotland accept it’s share of the debt, they will receive their rightful assets based on geographic boundaries. Geography was never my strong point, indeed I’ve never had any strong points, so could you just remind me where the Bank of England is located please?
Hi again Bruce. Empty rhetoric? That would be the statements made by most senior economists to the effect that Scotland was perfectly capable of being a successful independent country. Perhaps the rating agencies got it wrong to in their statement that Scotland would be afforded the highest rating (something Westminster lost). You are a one Bruce. 🙂
I think you will find that the one singular comment, to which you refer, was qualified by a number of caveats including currency and EU membership but I have yet to hear anything of substance to clarify how we would fund our public services. Perhaps you can do that for us?
As an aside Ron, I accept that no one knows what the future might hold for us, independent or otherwise, and I fully accept that my scepticism may be completely misplaced. Nevertheless, nothing I have said is factually incorrect, unreasonable or anything less than widely shared by knowledgable commentators. You, on the other hand, appear to be possessed of an absolute certainty and, given your parting comment, appear to be showing a degree of frustration that others do not share this absolute certainty.
Every argument/discussion has two sides Bruce. You are quite entitled to your opinions, as am I. There are many “experts” in this world and many have been proven wrong – on both sides of any argument.
This referendum s about self determination. Don’t you agree every nation state should have that privilege? Scotland has long been a nation state, one which, because of the error of judgement by a few wealthy individuals, opted to join with another. The new “conglomerate” has, in the eyes of many of us, made a number of errors of judgement. Had Margaret Thatcher opted to follow the example of Norway, what a different and inclusive nation we would have now. Had Gordon Brown (ably assisted by his Tory friends) not allowed such lassitude in banking sector, we would not be in the parlous state we find ourselves in. Those are the reasons many Scots want change, with control moving from a failed Westminster system to one closer to home, managed by those best placed to do so – those resident in Scotland.
You can’t have it both ways. “They will receive their rightful assets based on geographic boundaries.” The geographic boundaries are clear and laid down in international law so, clearly, the massive oil and gas reserves in The North Sea and West of Shetland (and potentially The Clyde) would be Scottish assets, not the preserve of Westminster, as at present. That’s not a bad start – a significant bonus I’d say. Geography doesn’t need to be your strong point, try Mr Google, who should be able to resolve matters for you on that score.
We can agree that sterlingisation could well be problematic for Scotland in the short term but much more so for Westminster. If you have massive debts and lose 10% of your income, it become more than a little problematic. At least one of the credit rating agencies has given Scotland a 4 star rating, the same agency removing that status for the UK. Not a bad start I’d say for an independent Scotland.
Last time I looked, The Bank of England resided in Threadneedle Street. Hope this clarifies. I seem to recollect the head honcho there – a Canadian. Apparently there’s no competent Englishman to do the job) saying he would be able to work with whatever scenario emerges from the independence referendum.
I know which way I’ll be voting today. What you do is, of course, entirely up to you.
Perhaps the fact that Scotland has, for many, many, years voted Labour, while our friends, south of the border have vote for the other main party (but moving in significant numbers to UKIP).I seem to recollect that we have, at present, one Tory MP. Would that give you a clue I wonder? Not since the 50’s have the Tories had any meaningful presence in Westminster, elected by Scottish voters. I think we can agree that the aspirations of Labour and The CONservatives are at some variance when it comes to social equality.
In saying that, the massive swing to the SNP in Scotland, leading to, what was thought to be an impossibility – a single party majority in Holyrood – shows that Scot’s are now, clearly, unsettled with the actions of Westminster and want change. Perhaps you would disagree with that also..
It’s all academic now as the people of Scotland have employed their democratic right to good effect and have rejected Independence. Now it is up to our leaders to accept the sovereign will of the Scottish people and work positively to improve and enhance our lives as part of the United Kingdom.
I really wanted to leave this alone and, in keeping with the sentiments of Bob’s excellent and wonderfully presented piece, never ever ever comment on the Referendum again. Unfortunately, you have broken my resolve.
Your denunciation of the clear majority of the Scottish electorate as blind cowards who would rather indulge in mass murder than feed those in need is, in my view, indicative of a shameful degree of arrogance and ignorance.
You profess to love your country but express utter contempt for the majority of the people of Scotland on the basis that they disagree with you. Do you really view the world through a prism in which the only view or opinion of any value is that which mirrors your own? The Referendum is over, the democratic will of the people of Scotland has been expressed and it is time to move on.
This will definitely be my last word on this subject and I apologise to readers of AV who have endured my regular comments in recent weeks/months.
A thunk ye Bruce fer comments aboot ma poem. Nae need ti apologise fer regular comments on es subject. AV likes ti hear fowk’s views including Ron’s even tho it wid appear ti hae bin written in a fit o pique.Obviously Ron his bin listinin ti his Glorious Leader ower muckle as Wee Eck himsel is a past maister o decryin the fowk in Scotland fa held a different viewpoint fae himsel.Peety fer him tho’ aat jist ower twa million fowk in Scotland didna agree wi him. Feart? Coorin an Timorous? Tut tut Ron aats gyaan a bittie ower the score min.
It’s pretty clear Sir Ian will not rest until he gets his way and concretes over UTG. What would we expect from a businessman faced with a prime city centre site, which could be developed and made highly profitable for someone? The fact that it’s a park on Common Good ground is a mere inconvenience. No doubt loads of dubious propaganda will now flow espousing his case, as before.
Equal pay for women is a strange one. Legislation was passed, many years ago, to allow this to happen. Strange, government has never enforced it don’t you think? Given, without the female race, none of us would be here, an argument could be made that the ladies are a fundamentally more important part of society than the men who, albeit, play a small “part” in the process.
The result of the referendum, as you say, still rancors many. For my own part, why a nation, given the opportunity of self determination rejects it, is perverse. We are definitely not too wee or too poor, so maybe we are just too feart? I suspect, with the back peddling of the Unionist Parties, this one may run and run for some time. The present feeling seems to be that nuclear weapons and power on the world stage are fundamentally more important than feeding the poor and heating their homes. Here’s me thinking government’s first priority was to the welfare of their citizens. Ah well – back to the drawing board.
Thanks for your thoughts Ron. I’m just a girl of course, but it certainly looks as if law enforcement in our little city and shire are completely arbitrary. Actually, arbitrary isn’t it – the laws are ignored or enforced depending on what pleases some of our wealthier citizens. For instance, guidelines, not law, is being enforced and that’s why the deer population is being destroyed. The law says that Trump must obey planning permission; tell that to Michael Forbes who can’t access the path to the beach any longer, his mother who as I undertsand it still doesn’t have adequate running water (she’s 90), or Susan Munro, who now stares at a bank of earth topped with dead trees where once her cottage looked over the sea. One law for one, another for the well-heeled.
As to my accusation of yellow journalism; today’s P&J’s cover featuring Sir Ian Wood talking of ‘killing’ the city centre by not letting him build in our gardens adds just a little weight to my argument, or so I think.
No doubt some of my usual critics will be on me soon to complain I keep writing about SIW and our gardens: well, if the P&J are going to keep his side of the argument (flimsy as it is) alive, then I’ll keep doing my ripostes. Cheerio, Tally ho, etc.
The good news is that the MSP who represents the residents at Menie says he loves nothing more than serving his constituents and should have more time to do so in the near future.
The bad news is Donald Trump has refused to rule out the possibility of running for the US Presidency this time around. You have to laugh!
The people of Aberdeen (those that really matter on this issue) were all given a vote on whether we should build the city gardens in UTG, the result was they did want it. Labour gave the people of Aberdeen and democracy a slap in the face when they overturned the vote, they also campaigned against Scotland being ran by its own people. They’ll pay for this at the next elections, local and general.
I have to say I fully agree with Sir Ian Wood in today’s paper, the council are asking us what we want in the City just 2 years after ignoring what we wanted. The city centre meanwhile has continued to go downhill, union street and the hole in the ground are a shambles. Where are all the do gooders campaigning to save the garden? any time I go past it it’s empty. No doubt they’ve moved on to other campaigns, perhaps opposing plans to increase the harbour expansion, the harbour that is the heart of our oil industry that employs so many. Or maybe they’re still bleating about a golf course that has also brought employment and money to the area.
All in my opinion of course. (which won’t stop it being moderated beyond recognition.
You obviously don’t pass the gardens on a sunny day Bill. Like all other public parks, it is well used then, also when events are held there. You may not have noticed the large marquee, erected for Octoberfest either.
While much was made of expanding the park by covering the road and railway in The Denburn, no one in the business community is prepared to take on that task, apparently, without the proposed swathes of concrete over the existing park. I wonder why that is?
Hello Duncan; I’d like to know what organisations you are referring to regarding Romanian dog adoptions. When you write:- “A traffic in Romanian canines developed and, for around £600 a pop, folk in Scotland could adopt a Romanian street hound. No questions asked and delivered to your door for a fee.
“Having been asked to report on the trade I soon discovered that there were insider interests at work who perhaps felt threatened by outsiders looking in. I of course backed off. At 10p a word who in their right mind wants to get shot or worse? The nutters had made their presence felt.”
I’d like clarification as to the evidence that leads you to conclude:- 1. no questions are asked of the would-be adoptive homes; 2. what insider interests are you talking about, and what was the evidence for this comment about them feeling threatened by outsiders looking in, 2. Who are you implying would cause you to ‘get shot or worse, and 3. what ‘nutters’ have made their presence felt and how?
If there are foreign dog adoption agencies that are unscrupulous, let us know which ones they are. If there are ‘dangerous nutters’ in the Romanian dog adoption business, we should know. If it is all just harmless prose intended to amuse, let’s hope you haven’t put people off adopting a foreign animal. There are plenty of animals here that need homes, but aren’t your implications a bit serious? Additionally, who had asked you to look into this? Many thanks for clearing these points up, Suzanne Kelly
PS – Are you certain Ferguson’s use of the Proclaimers’ quote, which clearly refers to the Scottish diaspora isn’t relevant? There are indeed millions of people with Scottish ancestry spread throughout North America. And as you know, ‘devils in skirts’ / ‘ladies from hell’ is an old, widely used expression which Ferguson nods to in his piece, which I for one find very well informed.
Thank you for this wealth of information Suzanne. Seems to be little in the way of accountability in where our cash goes, and a reluctance on the part of those receiving it to explain how it is used. Openness does not seem to part of their watchwords.
I suspect its probably not the elected parties that are to blame here, as elected parties come and go there must be a core inside local gov that dont have to give up positions for their opposite political counterpart. These are the ppl that are making all this happen, regardless of how the good ppl of Aberdeen vote.
I have to say I almost fell off me chair with laughter when i heard the leader of the labour party said he was going to start up a mansion tax to pay for more funding in the NHS.
The fact of the matter is that no matter how much money is put into any goverment body, the money will disappear as you have mentioned above. Unless they’ve discovered a lot of surgeons and consultants own mansions :))
politicians think we are all stupid
My thoughts are turning really nasty at this point, so best i leave it there..
I believe you may be missing the main point. This is not necessarily about money going into government bodies but is about money going out of government bodies to individuals and interests with no public accountability, transparency or audit trail to show who benefitted and why.
That land belonging to the City of Aberdeen, that is the people of Aberdeen, was sold off, at a tiny fraction of market value, to a company belonging to a local and apparently very influential multi – millionaire was shocking to even the most hardened of cynics.
The increasingly blurred lines and secrecy which surrounds such deals is scandalous and I look forward to hearing more about what I’m sure was a very thorough investigation into the ACC/Stewart Milne Group giveaway.
Dear Paul, Please refer to Aberdeen Voice policy. I think you will understand why it was not added. If you wish to re-submit removing the elements of religious intolerance, suggestions of ‘stringing people up’, etc. etc., then we will evaluate it and hopefully be able to approve.
I think I did get it and agree totally with everything you say. Thing is, what do I do about it? I fear a surface is just being scratched somehow. i.e the above could account for what ACC take in on parking charges. Where is the real money going?
Phoning the Police would be a waste of time maybe.
This piece barely scratches the surface; hopefully it raises some questions. As far as the police are concerned, here’s an update. Back at the time Audit Scotland criticised the city for its property transactions, the police were asked to investigate how these transactions came about, etc. Well, the police and the city can find no record of any investigation or report. I have been engaging with both entities to try and get somewhere; no progress yet, but the police will be asked further questions soon, and the Information Commissioner will be contacted in the very near future.
Thanks for that valuable update Suzanne. I know, from my own limited knowledge and experience, that this does indeed only scratch the surface but for what it’s worth, I know that your efforts are greatly appreciated by many. Really looking forward to hearing more.
Apologies John for suggesting you missed the point. I read your post again after pressing “reply” and felt a little embarrassed for suggesting this. My impetuosity can still get the better of me sometimes.
thanks for the kind words. When I can update on the police and whether or not they carried out an investigation into the transactions, will let you know.
Well done Johnathan people need to look at the real facts behind these conflicts and how they have been fermented and how truth has been twisted to form a narrative to suit a political doctrine that puts the interests of a small group of people before peace.History shows us that truth is relegated or dismissed as conspiracy look into the Iran-Contra affair or the lies of the weapons of mass destruction that were not in Iraq and we get an insight into what goes on in the world of Geo politics
My Grandpa Reynolds and most of his brothers and sisters attended Torry Public School. I think they lived in Victoria Road from around the early 1900’s. I would love to find out about their time attending the school.. Can anyone advise me how to research to find out more information?
Many thanks
Dear Mrs Coutts, if you are on Facebook, you might start by contacting the Torry Heritage Group; they can be found here https://www.facebook.com/groups/241504992690973/?ref=br_tf . Additionally the library in Torry on Victoria Road has local information. Good luck with your research; please let us know how you get on.
Simply unbelievable! There are a number of extremely serious concerns and issues raised by this incident but what on earth prompts an individual to react instinctively by demanding that, first and foremost, the most important thing is that such matters must be transferred to Holyrood on an urgent basis?
Lest we forget, we live on a relatively small island. Depending on the whereabouts of any such vessel, the merest change in wind direction might determine whether it would be in Scottish waters, Norwegian waters, Irish waters or, god forbid, in the waters of the dastardly Westminster elite who would surely evoke the spirit of Drake, Nelson and Farage by immediately implementing a naval blockade.
The most important thing, surely, is that the UK and it’s neighbours are properly equipped and prepared to deal with such incidents and that they cooperate in a unified fashion to minimise any risk. The last thing anyone needs is political posturing and opportunism.
I am delighted to hear this. I worked alongside one of the crafting stalls this Easter in UTG when the roller skating rink was there, and it was great watching the activities. I would make a plea that the rink is not hidden in a marquee, because people do like to watch what is going on, and that will also attract people to the gardens. And please no huge ‘excluding’ fences!
I think there where 2 reasons the council sells land cheap
1. Backhanders
2. Future tax income – turning empty land into a rate generator. Which is fine (honest) but you need to build some Schools. Perhaps the original value of the land could have paid for this? But when your cash strapped your options seem limited – we all know this.
Nuclear energy..
Nuclear energy. wind and tide energy are the future – like it or not.
Heres my logic
WE are all addicted to hydrocarbons. Unless you walk or cycle to work, dont heat your home and have no electricity either at home or at work then you cannot argue this point.
If we all decided tomorrow to switch to alternative power, the aeroplanes, ships trains and hgv still need to run, all this does is slow down the release of CO². How else is the bread going to get to the supermarket
all green policies work to help elongate the life of hydrocarbon energy. Nobody is trying to save the planet here as the planet will be perfectly fine, its our enviroment that we will destroy. We are releasing CO² trapped in the earth from a time when we couldnt have existed. Buy an electric car and use led lightbulbs – ace, we have just extended hydrocarbon use by 20 yrs. See? Green parties are there to aid Goverment, not actually be goverment
I say get it out of the ground and get it used up, the sooner the better. Dust off the rangerover and let the good times roll. Goverment imposing green taxes on less efficient vehicles? Utter nonsense, we are running out of a finite resource and they need to conserve it. Keep that in mind next time your hurtling down the M6. Look at all the cars around you, look at all the homes either side of you getting reading for a nice cosy winter, think of all the other M6`s there are in the world, the mind boggles..
:o)
I think there will be a market opening up for CO² removal from the atmosphere and deposited in solid form somewhere, somehow.
Anyhows, when we are finished with the offshore oil rigs, maybe these can be used as nuclear powerplants, will all the nasty stuff dropped down into the empty well, ready to be sealed off at a moments notice.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Perhaps we do need nuclear – but if so, it has to be in a system which is not capitalist. When you are trying to get the most for your money with the minimal safety/quality checks, that is, IMO, what leads to the nuclear disasters we’ve seen, and what will probably a contributing factor if not a root cause to future disasters. Cleaner energy should be being made affordable and reliable. (I do have a carbon footprint like everyone else; but I don’t have a car, use public/rail whenever possible, don’t have central heating, and try to do my bit for reducing waste).
No heating? not coming round your house for tea and cakes 🙂
I generally cycle to work and drive an efficient diesel when its windy ( it will get windier methinks) My motives arent green, I like cycling and I like to save money. I like green things, people who dont like windmills annoy me. Free energy is fun (The price is just the price, as they say in the oil industry)
Hydrocarbon age needs to run its course – then we can start to deal with it properly.
Remember those frosty patterns that used to form on the inside of your bedroom window when you where a kid? Burrr, those where the days, Cuddle in… 🙂
Thought provoking and informative as usual, as is the reply from John. The pros and cons of nuclear energy and the subsequent disposal of waste is something I seem to change my mind on frequently, mostly due to the conflicting information made available and my own ignorance.
Stewart Milne and widespread allegations of corruption within Aberdeen City Council(ACC) are, however, a subject on which I am far from beset by such indecision. Given that the police can find no trace of the anticipated investigation into land deals between companies owned or part owned by Mr Milne and ACC, have they given any undertaking to carry out an investigation now and can anyone come up with an explanation for the inability of ACC to record information concerning multi million pound land deals and the apparent incompetence of Aiberdeen’s finest, other than what some might consider to be blatant corruption?
PS – Torry Community Council meets on Thursday 16th October at 7:15pm in the Old Torry Community Centre (the Academy is closed for the school holidays). There will be a report back on the future of the Victoria Road School buildings as well as other important matters going on that affects us all. Open to all…see you there – from David Fryer on Facebook. I look forward to this meeting for many reasons – not least to find out more about how Victoria Road School was handled.
Great news you won’t be forgetting the CGP, was a complete travesty of justice why the people of Aberdeen were ignored in the referendum, a huge blow for democracy and a slap in the face for the majority who wanted it.
The vocal minority lost, it should be built at the first opportunity.
The labour shambles will be booted out at the first opportunity, another huge glass monstrosity now planned for our city, very strange where the vocal minority were on this occasion, would it be wrong for me to suggest that the lack of a well known rich person meant they weren’t interested in objecting to it??
[ Bill, re. delay in approving your post. As volunteers, with other responsibilities in our lives, moderators are not always available when comments arrive. We do try and check in regularly, but there will be periods where delays are inevitable]
terribly sorry; perhaps details have changed in the months since this article came out. Here is a contact list which may help; there is also a phone number in the article which may likewise be useful http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/lords/
I can’t argue with Monbiot, but the way things stand with the police and government, any predators introduced wouldn’t stand a chance. Illegal poaching, lamping, animal torture and raptor poisoning are realities that are not being adequately addressed. Putting Lynx and wolves into the wild in the present climate would only serve to foment wildlife crime. We can’t even keep deer safe in Aberdeen’s small park areas (remains of 4 deer found on Tullos in January and 1 on Kincorth Hill). This might seem a great plan to some, but this is far from a great time for it.
“There seem to be other groups wanting a train station in the gardens.”
Let’s make it clear that the Friends of Union Terrace Gardens as a group has not endorsed this idea. Our AGM last year firmly rejected the Halliday plans which had included plans for this.
Taking the lead from our members we are opposed to any plan that involves building in the park. If any future proposal comes forward concerning UTG, we will take advice from our members and act accordingly.
I’m confused Suzanne. And of course I may not have understood. I remember seeing, at some time, a Power Point presentation thingy that showed UTG with a station, a performance area and a cafe, with lots of shadowy folks strolling along the lower level – mostly on loc-bloc, and that this would encourage footfall etc.from the station, and that this was the way forward for the gardens. This was not a HFM idea. Was it?
let’s see – first there was a plan from Peacock to build some features into the gardens such as performance and gallery space. Then magically Scottish Enterprise ditched their support for Peacock and supported what Sir Ian Wood (formerly of Scottish Enterprise) wanted. This was illustrated as a street level, concrete plaza with one or two token trees in planters. Then there was a public consultation on that, with worthies such as Rita Stephen coming round to businesses, saying the Peacock plan was dead, and asking for opinions. We were then told that we hadn’t understood the plans at all, and it wasn’t going to be a square like that. Other plans came; then there was the consultation on six shortlisted designs, with the wackiest (and not most popular with the public) winning – an Escher-esque granite spaghetti junction in the air; with layers of parking (never mind the underground burn), magical pine forests, an outdoor performance area (great for those January evenings) with a concrete potato chip shape over the stage that somehow we were going to be allowed to sit on top of – none of which required safety railings or barriers – although a Christmas tree erected last year required such protection. Plans changed every other day; the public was kept away from trivialities such as how the shortlist vote went, or why they couldn’t just say no at that time. Hope this clears things up. ???
Oops. Hope I haven’t posted twice. Trying to drink first coffee of the day and type at the same time. Thank you for the information Suzanne. The power point thingy I am remembering was much more recent, and for the life of me, I cant remember where it came from. But there was definitely a station, a performance place and a cafe. There were folk walking along a path paved with loc-bloc. Was this one of ACC’s projections. It wasn’t HFM’s because in their plan the lower level has gone, along with the trees, so it had to have come from somewhere. Perhaps it was another one of Prof. Prondynski’s projections. Well perhaps we will see, if as Cllr.Crockett has said there will have to be compromise on UTG.
Thanks Dorothy – I wonder if it wasn’t one of those Prondynski / AB+ presentations you are thinking of; I’d not seen this one. There may be plans being drawn up behind the scenes; would be surprised if there aren’t. However, whatever group that comes forward with plans for UTG had best expect a great deal of opposition for any plan that involves building. If Cllr. Crockett says compromise is required over the garden’s future (and I don’t doubt it), he’d best be meaning whether to have tulips or petunias, and nothing involving any trains, webs, buildings or other nonsense.
Just remembered. Must have been the Sunday Times article that prompted the memory. A member of a local group said that it would enhance connectivity. Not sure what Urban Realm would make of that. Bang goes another bit of heritage maybe.! Interesting times indeed. Wionder what the PbJ will make of it tomorrow.
well, if they can’t collect the tens of millions that shopkeepers allegedly are meant to stump up in tax, it’s likely they’ll try and go after you instead 🙂 However, all signatures will help. All we want are some answers and assurances. If we get the 250 signatures before 14/11, then the next committee meeting will consider the petition – so thanks in advance for signing and sharing.
“Alex Robertson is a grass
He likes to kiss the bosses (sic) arse”
sprayed in red on the bus shelter near the roundabout at the Hareness Road/Blackness Road junction, Dunc?
An attempt has been made to remove this, but it is still visible. Alex’s nemeses obviously thought about durability and sustainability given their perspex canvas’s proximity to the North Sea, its north-facing aspect and the dozens of hi-vis jackets which must rub against their art as tired, freezing patrons await the 18 bus to Dyce.
I have a part-completed song somewhere, inspired by the message daubed or sprayed on a wall in Chanonry, opposite St Machar Cathedral, warning “Tiny Tilly is back”. I wonder where he or she had been? Craiginches (Butlins by-the-Dee), perhaps?
When it comes to being “disingenuous” and indulging in “political point – scoring” Mr Allard and the leadership of his party take some beating. In this case, Mr Alllard carefully chooses a period between 2003 and 2007, thereby ignoring the previous four years of the same Labour led Administration, whilst noticeably referring to an optimistic “target” figure in an effort to create a false understanding of the SNP record. Furthermore, he neglects to say how many houses, built during the period of SNP government, were already approved for building, by the Labour led Administration, prior to his party taking power.
In short this is, in my opinion, a quite disgraceful attempt to mislead the public and is consistent, in my view, with a nationalist party whose uncanny ability to control information is reminiscent of European fascist parties of the 1930’s.
This is a scandal which, like the description of the predicted golf resort by the Scottish Government at the time they “called in” the application, is of “national significance”. That our very own Scottish Government played a leading role in foisting this carbuncle on our protected land and successfully circumvented established democratic procedure and planning law to fulfil the ambitions of their erstwhile favourite foreign billionaire is bad enough but that the promises of jobs and tourism turned out to be completely false adds insult to injury.
A unique area of land, given the highest possible level of legal protection, was destroyed by our own government to satisfy the whim of someone, whom in my opinion, they thought would gain them political advantage whilst the human rights and lives of our own citizens became collateral damage in a cosy little accord between two of the most grotesquely vulgar individuals ever to walk a golf course. One a politician and the other merely rich.
Perhaps the long – suffering residents might seek help from their MSP now that he has relinquished his old job and renewed his friendship with the Donald?
Well said Bruce. There was a piece in the Sunday Sun headlined “Donald Dump” which was pretty apt when you look at the mess. Discarded trolleys were called “Stuck in the Rough: Wooden furniture cluttered around sheds were “The frame’s a bogey”: and ornamental lights had were ordered to be taken down by Aberdeenshire council because they were fixed on the Munro’s property were “Looking under par”. Now it is not often that I would praise what the Sun says, but on this occasion they were absolutely right. As they said “Tycoon’s course is in a right state.” Never a truer word spoken. As ever Mr. Trump’s spokesman declined to comment. If this mess had been left by erstwhile travellers there would have been an outcry in the local press. Have we heard a word? No. Could that be because Mrs.Bates works for Donald the Dump?
I have no knowledge of this issue whatsoever but the sums quoted seem to be straight out of the SNP arithmetical text book. Assuming an average salary of around £30,000 per year, that is £600 per week, for a police constable and a conference lasting a week at most, this would mean that around 1000 police officers attended this event for the entire duration.
I was unaware the LibDems had become so important that they merited a personal bodyguard for each and every one of their delegates. Now if only the SNP would pay back the money they spent to prevent the disclosure of EU advice which they they knew full well did not exist and had never even been requested, they might be in a position to claim the moral high ground on alleged unpaid bills.
Yet another episode of blatant hypocrisy from Mr Allard I would suggest.
Re the relative populations of the four nations of the UK, I think you’ll find the population of Norn Ireland is about 1 million, not 4.5 million. The Republic is about 3 million, but is not, of course, part of the UK.
Hi Alex – many ways to do the counting; point taken of course. Here is Wikipedia on the subject (while they are not infallible, their info seems to be what other sites are saying) “The population of the island of Ireland in 2012 was approximately 6.4 million comprising 4.58 million in the Republic of Ireland with another 1.8 million in Northern Ireland. Although this is a significant growth over recent years, it is lower than historical figures.” Perhaps the entire emerald isle should be consulted on the UK’s future, just to throw an idea out there for consideration in a devil’s advocate kind of way
my name is aristote wanga ikombo I’m artist musician in africa in the Democratic Republic of Congo in the kinshasa city
ok i want to come do my new album in your studio i want you to do me a booking
my
project
( recording end mixing / album of 6 tracks. the day i want to come in your studio is on the 5 of january 2015
Sincere thanks to Andrew Douglas for clarifying the situation and for confirming Mr Allard’s apparently growing reputation for inaccuracy, ineptitude and blatant opportunism.
Mr Allard and his constituency assistants have, in my opinion, contributed a number of articles/statements to Aberdeen Voice and have at no time responded to polite and pertinent challenge to their embarrassingly partisan and highly imaginative narrative.
It is to be hoped that Mr Allard will make a public apology for what appears to be yet another deliberate attempt to deceive the public.
I am an expat’ but a keen supporter of Scottish independence. However, having watched the events in Aberdeen/Menie Estate I must say that Scotland does not appear to be fit for independence. The corruption, incompetence and parochialism of those in positions of power are almost laughable and an albatross around the neck of the Scottish people.
Strange why you object to what are one sided articles in your opinion, this is exactly what this publication does on numerous matters imo, the CGP for example was favoured by the majority of those who voted the referendum, you only got one side of the story on here.
Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
I for one am all in favour of a new harbour, Nigg bay is an eyesore imo, no amount of “sssi” will change that, weird why these special places of scientific interest always pop up when people object to something. It will create jobs and bring tourists to our City, what’s not to like.
If anything it will create an extra habitat for wildlife, you want to oppose something that really affects wildlife then you should be opposing the offshore windmills imo, they do real damage…..oh sorry I forgot, Mr Trump doesn’t like them so they’re ok in your eyes.
Maybe if you looked up the facts about this development you’d see you’re
not speaking much sense.
It’s for decommissioning oil platforms.
I think you’ll find oily water, noise, light pollution, engine fumes,
Hundreds of vehicles do not add up to a habitat that wildlife would be rushing to .
There is no doubt that “long term solutions” are needed but there is no point in criticising intervention, at the request of those suffering at the hands of ISIS, without providing alternative proposals, other than doing nothing.
Finding a way forward in the Middle East is difficult enough but pretending that centuries of bloodshed and ethnic and religious conflict was somehow created by Western involvement is a poor starting point.
It would be helpful if we were to be told what level of special expertise, experience or knowledge these guest speakers might have, which would entice people to come and listen to what they have to say.
Well hello Bill – yes, a slow week. No one interested in this issue except me, the national press, and the several hundred who have read it so far. Some pictures showing the access problems at present can be found here http://menie-estate-report.yolasite.com/
I, for one, am extremely grateful that this scandal continues to be highlighted and that the apparent willingness of council officers and politicians, including First Minister Salmond, to encourage and condone unlawful behaviour by individuals on the basis of their wealth is exposed.
The infamous meeting between Salmond and Trump, which resulted in the the Scottish Government taking the unprecedented step of overturning established democratic process by “calling in” the original planning application and led to the similarly unprecedented building of a commercial development on land which had the highest possible level of legal protection, is ample evidence, in my opinion, that we live in a corrupt state in which our own national leader puts the interests of foreign billionaires before those of his own constituents.
Thank goodness for the AV and other outlets for reminding us of the wrongs committed in support of this golf course, because the likes of the EE and the P&J will never do so.
The dilemna John is what/who to vote for in terms of the Menie residents. Their MSP is Salmond and he has done nothing to support them, and look at the composition of Aberdeenshire council. This situation is a shocking indictment of how our councils are run, especially in terms of the permanent officials. I would be pleased to hear how you think this situation could be resolved in May.
this article on the opinions of individual persons to their opinions on the harbour situation i have never had any contact with the citizens paper i have never met or saw the other woman concerted her opinion is of no concern of mine i gave my opinion and my opinion only as to the opinions of mr bill stephens and david nicol their opinions are thier prerogative and theirs only i think that you would agree that no matter what we think a decision about how we feel is beyond our feelings and is without our control the matter has been passed on by a higher authority than ours as if anyone from the citizen wants my opinion i will gladly give it to them best wishes alan reid
I think that I might call this a run-on sentence, and one that’s particularly hard to follow. Either you want to have Nigg Bay turned into a no-go, private industrial zone or you don’t.
PS – Are you aware that the Citizen is sister paper to the Evening Express and the P&J? They are all published by Aberdeen Journals Ltd. What you say to one can get used by the others. Get them to print a correction. However you are completely wrong to think this decision is out of our hands: you may choose to be dictated to about the future of Nigg Bay, but I don’t, and nor do others. It is your democratic right to protest and object.
Aye, Bob, a friendly and funny man when I spoke with him, and a good friend of many of the 66-67 squad with whom I still have contact. Alas, their numbers are getting fewer. I have written obituaries for Franny Munro, Jens Petersen and Davie Johnston in recent years, as well as the Boss himself.
Fact is the people of the City voted for the city gardens project, it’s called democracy, for the council to overturn that is a disgrace that will stain them as long as they are in office, the people spoke…the council ignored them.
The £90 Million was to be paid for from new business rates, one only needs to look at the new business parks being built around the City to see that would have been no problem, now instead of retaining the money within our city it will go to the Central government and be spent elsewhere.
The people who didn’t want a new garden can spin all the scare stories in the World but a lack of finance or the people of Aberdeen having to directly pick up the tab isn’t one of them. Come out and say you don’t want it, don’t spin sensationalised rubbish to back it up. Very poor journalism in my humble opinion, no better than a Daily Mail headline.
You conveniently forget that the public initially voted AGAINST The UTG proposal Bill. Only after a whole lot of dubious figures and promises were thrown in to the arena did the public vote in favour. While everyone was broadly in favour of The Peacock Visual Arts plans (fully funded as I recollect), Sir Ian’s “vision” blew that out of the water. It does little credit to the cause that, after public “consultation,” the choice of The Web was selected, despite being the least supported by the public. The whole exercise was woeful and best forgotten.
We only had one vote where everyone was asked, I wasn’t even aware of the initial vote, have since found out activists voted numerous times in my opinion.
Dear Bill, if you found out that ‘activists voted numerous times’ – (we had to add the phrase ‘my opinion’ to this sensational claim) then you have more information than the rest of us. Despite numerous requests to see the votes and comments people made on the six shortlisted designs, the private entity, Aberdeen City Gardens Trust, which has the votes, refuses to let anyone else see them. Councillors told me they asked for the votes and were turned down. The taxpayer helped to pay for some of the voting process as well – and yet this unelected group of about 3 people has them. Doesn’t seem very democratic somehow. Further, the public were initially going to get the choice of saying no to the whole scheme during the shortlist process – and Gerry Brough and various unelected committees removed that choice, which councillors objected to.
As I recall, there was no offer of a “£90 million loan”. The loan offered was, I believe, only £70 million, which left a £20million black hole, to be filled by an alleged mystery £5 million donation from a mysterious anonymous donor and the remainder by….well by wishful thinking basically.
As for the repayment method, I seem to recall the business rates would be received from a specific area of development only, as opposed to region – wide and, given rumours of widespread redundancies in the oil industry and the recent 40% fall in the oil price, it is beginning to look extremely doubtful that this untried and untested method of repayment would have succeeded, even if the £20 million black hole was suddenly and miraculously filled. This would have resulted in Aberdeen City Council, that is the citizens of Aberdeen, including “Bill”, being left with the debt liability.
Of course, the referendum promise of hundreds of thousands of tourists rushing to Aberdeen to see the wondrous Granite Carbuncle, thereby creating thousands of jobs and making us all rich beyond our wildest dreams, was not at all wildly optimistic or unrealistic or cynical or a downright lie, as can be verified by the success of similar promises, in relation to the Trump development for example, which has brought tourists flocking from all over the world, filling our 5 star hotels to such an extent that their owners have decided to flog them off to their mates to give us more “luxury housing developments” and the promised new and exciting flights to and from Aberdeen, such as those to… Majorca and Majorca. Haud me back min!!
well, that’s a pretty concise, accurate summary of the state of things as far as I’m concerned; with all the numbers (some of them quite fanciful) flying around, it was hard to keep up.
Fact is Bill, the plans to raise the gardens were put out to public consultation and the result of the consultation was a clear No and that was to be the end of it. As seems to be popular in Scotland nowadays however, the clear No vote was ignored and the Yes supporters ploughed on and the population were even offered a choice on what they could say Yes to! This choice included the Granite Web but the public once again voted No to such a monstrosity and preferred an alternative option. Again, the public No vote was ignored and the public were asked to vote, yet again, whether or not the Web should go ahead. This time, the answer was Yes and,strangely enough, the verdict was accepted.
But just when I thought the scope for democratic choice had been exhausted, a political party stood for election on the basis of saying No to the Granite Web and they won. The voters had once again said No to this proposed development and this time, at long last, the matter was concluded, I think.
For some reason, which I don’t understand, there seems to be a significant minority who just won’t accept No for an answer on anything and only think an answer can be a democratic representation of the will of the people if the answer is Yes!
Do you think such an unwillingness to accept No and even an eagerness to interpret No as Yes is a welcome development Bill. Yes or No?
FACT is the people of Aberdeen were asked if they wanted it via a democratic referendum, they said yes.
Those opposed to it can cry all they like but they’re a minority IMO. They acted like spoilt brats imo when they lost, toys came out of the pram big style.
We’re now left with what is to me a cold dank hole in the ground and a decaying City centre, well done the minority.
Why do we need a spin doctor at ACC I wonder? Could it be the blatant lying of some councillors and senior officials has been found out? Perhaps the impressive salary being awarded for this non job would have better spent on educating the aforementioned parties on how to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and not prevaricating and blustering trying to make black seem white, costing the council tax payers significant sums in the process.
I never buy or read either paper, I think for myself unlike many on here in my opinion.
I think UTG is a shambles that is empty the vast majority of the year, open your eyes our City is dying and needs regenerating, this could have been a great focal point.
Which other City in the World would reject a £50 Million donation to kickstart regeneration, utter madness to me, the people voted for it as well but a bunch of amateur politicians IMO turned it into a political football and ignored direct democracy, a disgrace IMO.
I wish some reporter would check out the state of Graham Lawrences (Labour Councillor) garden to see if he should have been having any say over what happens to the CGP, it’s an overgrown shambles that hasn’t been tended to in years in my opinion.
Why local councils are ran [sic] by amatuer politicians in my opinion is beyond me, I believe local lever councils should not be about politics, it should be who’s best to represent the area where people live, it’s a disgrace that councillors have to tow the party line at this level. 20 independants would be a much fairer situation.
Quite right Bill, let’s get Ian Wood, Stewart Milne, Donald Trump and the like to run the city and shire without any need for councillors and elections and that kind of thing, come to think of it they already…..oops nearly said something controversial there Bill. With a Scottish Government talking left wing rhetoric whilst indulging the whims of their favoured billionaires, they could form a tartan Dream Team.
What could go wrong?
As for Cllr Lawrence’s garden, I heard he had hired the same firm of landscape gardeners as Trump. Have you seen the pictures of the “overgrown shambles” and giant mounds of earth at Menie? I agree with you that something should be done about this Bill. What would you suggest?
As has become tradition, the SNP actively promote the opening and operation of as many food banks as possible, so that they can, in my opinion, cynically blame others for the existence of food banks for the purpose of political and electoral advantage. The number of food banks has exploded during the years of SNP government as they work ever more closely with the Trussell Trust, a company which employs at least seventeen staff, ranging from Chief Executive to PR & Marketing Manager, Corporate Partnership Manager, HR Administration Manager etc. You know the kind of thing which any self respecting small business might need.
Mr Allard has, in my view, blatantly misled readers of Aberdeen Voice before and will, in my view, do so again. It is time, however, that people woke up to what, in my opinion, amounts to a cynical and opportunistic strategy of promoting something for no other reason than to use as a political stick to wave at opponents and falsely claim the moral high ground.
I have recently formed the opinion that the SNP prefer slogans and empty rhetoric to facts, details or rational debate and would not, therefore, expect any rebuttal of such accusations.
To clarify regarding what Bruce alluded to in an earlier comment re. the £70m figure, here is a fact ( yes, a fact ) which seems to have been continuously shoved under the carpet … and the edges of said carpet apparently stapled.
Progress of the Granite web was CONDITIONAL on £70m being raised from private sources/business community.
Sir Ian put up £50m. An anonymous donor pledged a further £5m …. leaving a £15m shortfall. As far as I can find ( or cannot find as the case may be ), to this day, not a single individual or business has gone on record even to express an interest in making a significant donation towards making up said shortfall.
We know you believe we should have had a granite web Bill, you’ve made that very clear. But whether you blame ‘activists’, the Council, Labour, voters, or the tooth fairy, the fact remains that the hordes of businesses/business leaders who voiced their support for the development ( or to get a mention in the press? free advertising? ) failed to put their hands in their pockets. Therefore the project was never going to see the light of day whatever the ( non-binding ) referendum result.
In simple terms … No dough, no go!
Before the referendum, supporters of the web insisted the money would come. It didn’t … and even in the period between the referendum result and the council elections, no individual or business went on record with a pledge of funds to breach the shortfall.
The idea of our City taking out a massive loan, whilst the private investors/business community were being too ‘careful’ with their own fortunes to address their side of the bargain, understandably I suggest, did not sit well with with a great many folks.
You seem to forget Sir Ian said he’d make up any shortfall, I get people don’t want the garden improved but why they make up scare stories to back their position I’ll never know.
With all due respect, you are wrong again. Sir Ian Wood said he would make up any shortfall in the event of a cost over – run, over and above the £140 million budget. I can categorically state that he never, at any time, offered to make up the missing £15 – £20 million pounds to meet the original budget shortfall.
Regretfully, I must tell you that you are equally wrong when you say that no one was against the Gardens being “improved”. Indeed, prior to Sir Ian’s intervention, there was an approved proposal to build a visual arts centre, for which guaranteed money was, I believe, already in place, which attracted little or no controversy and which would not have risked any debt liability for Aberdeen City Council and the tax payer. I also seem to recall some enterprising and public – spirited cafe owners submitted very reasonable proposals to “improve” and attract people to the Gardens. Unfortunately, Aberdeen City Council, if my memory serves me correctly, rejected these proposals.
With regard to your response to Mr Bothwell below, I must wholeheartedly agree with you that you are definitely not providing me with competition. I do however look forward, with eager anticipation, to your next contribution to this discussion.
Peacock Visual Arts were working with Scottish Enterprise to have their arts centre in the gardens; it would have cost a few trees, and I admit I didn’t wholly love it at first. Compared to the ‘monolith’ design(?) or the granite web, it was the Taj Mahal of arts centres. It needed only a few million more; it would have cost a fraction of the pointless granite ramps to nowhere. Perhaps Bill, Sir Ian, or someone at Scottish Enterprise can finally explain why they decided to change projects mid stream? I had some past rhetoric from SE along the lines that they were only interested in a generic arts centre in the gardens, not necessarily Peacock’s plans. That however, in my opinion, doesn’t match the facts – they certainly did a lot of work with Peacock, and no other arts organisation before Sir Ian and ACSEF got interested in our common good land.
Bill, when you deviate (as you sometimes do) from our policy, we will clarify when your opinion is being stated where otherwise you make it look as fact; we’ve explained many times the policy for posting here. For someone who feels they can’t get a fair debate on here, you certainly expend time trying to do so. Please do take up our standing offer and write an article for us. As to your believe Steve’s question is strange; I in turn think it’s strange that you don’t get the importance of the articles of association for the private group we nearly handed common good land to. But mostly, I want to know where you get your information from as to people making multiple votes at the shortlist voting opportunity: you seem to have access to information no one else does if you are making such a statement as fact. Please tell us where this assertion came from, thanks.
Why didn’t Stevens quote get a IMO added after it??
I actually replied to his wife but the name has changed overnight, this place is just bizarre, a group of friends are the only people who comment apart from me, you’re no voice for Aberdeen, you’re a bunch of elitist left wing incomers, IMO, that’s my IMO not yours just so your friends reading here know.
I also had a post on your heavy editing not posted, your editing is trying to make my grammar look bad to aid your argument, that’s really not on. IMO!!
I’m not sure where to start with this one. We have never changed grammar; if a phrase or sentence is unclear, “[sic]” is sometimes used to reinforce it is the poster’s grammar and not the editors’. In fact, in the post above, we didn’t change/comment on the uncorrect ‘Stevens quote’. There is only one Steven, who made two comments – neither of which breached AV policy or needed any revision. As to the comment about friends making posts, Steven and Voice editor Fred Wilkinson are the only posters on this thread personally known to me. Steven will be interested to know he has a wife. He does have a mother. No one has changed any names, overnight or otherwise. I do not see any post from Bill about heavy editing; if Bill would like to give examples of how our modifying his comments (which is only done to make them suitable for use as explained ad infinitum) to make his grammar look bad, I will be more than happy to comment on any such examples; none of which exist to my knowledge.
Your editing just doesn’t make sense to me and is so clearly biased in my opinion it’s bizarre you’re even trying to argue the point, I’m obviously writing this so it’s clearly my opinion, please leave my posts alone like you do with the other contributors, If you believe I’ve said something defamatory then you have a right to edit, stop getting power hungry with my perfectly valid posts.
Yet again my post gets heavily edited, it wasn’t defamatory and was written in a clear concise manner yet you choose to add the stupid in my opinions all over it, if you treated every reply like this I’d say fair enough, if you want to run the place like that then fine but to single out me because I don’t agree with your hippy left wing stance is just strange.
For the avoidance of doubt I did not add any imo to the paragraph above, nothing in it is even bordering on being illegal.
I also note my question has been unanswered.
Aberdeen voice….you’re having a laugh.
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Hello all – a comment has come in; it will be moderated when one of our other moderators has a chance. But to reiterate (sorry, yes again it seems necessary to do so), comments are moderated when deemed appropriate to do so; you may agree with the way they are moderated; you may not agree. Aberdeen Voice’s policies on what is acceptable and what isn’t may or may not agree with your views. Enjoy. Or not.
You have truly outdone yourself this time, Suzanne – an absolutely superb piece of writing! I’m sending the link to various friends, including a couple in the US, who have watched Mr Baxter’s first documentary & are appalled at what happened.
What a lovely seasonal tale and I hope all of these adorable fictional characters coin it in, sorry live, happily ever after and that they don’t simply go on to become sad caricatures and figures of ridicule.
I can’t help thinking, however, that it all sounds very familiar and close to home. Perhaps I dreamt it?
Strangely enough though, in a quite remarkable coincidence, I’m sure I read of some concerns raised recently by the wealthy residents of the western suburbs of a similar – sounding city, in relation to the fact that someone called “wee Stewart” had bought a magnificent inn, renowned for attracting thousands of players of the game known as golf from all over the world, from someone called “saft Stewart” with the intention of turning it into magnificent.. eh..offices but retaining the original part of the main building. The concerns of the residents are that, having submitted plans and proposals on this basis, “wee Stewart” has changed his mind and decided to knock the whole thing down and improve the lives of residents even further by building hundreds of magnificent..eh..flats instead.
Like your own kingdom, such decisions rest with someone called King Kowncil and it is believed, by many of his subjects, that Kowncil is really a slave of the Stewarts and their noble peers.
Do not give up just because a bunch of NEEPS IMO masquerading as councillors decide to inflict on generations the curse of modern developments To hide, obscure the facade of the worlds greatest granite building – Marischal College and call it a Square.
Join Aberdeen Beautiful a new organisation set up to inflict as much embarrassment as possible on the NEEPS for all the horrendous, ghastly buildings IMO they have proudly seen fit to foist on us. Wither now elected or not, the scars left behind by each councillor’s inability to understand the city they live in and the duty of care they own it will haunt them.
” Ian Gordon, an authority on salmon fishing in Scotland, commented:”
err what authority ?
i agree ban all salmon netting, matter of fact ban all salmon fishing using rods too. scrap catch and release too. so no more salmon being caught for food and no more salmon being tortured for ages by anglers for sport.. then government can pay the salmon fishermen millions in compensation for lost earnings and lost jobs.
and then what ? will the penny finally drop, who and what will they blame then for the lack of salmon in our waters. ?
Looking at the list of guest speakers, this has all the makings of yet another post – referendum nationalist rally. Cue emotional flag waving and tub thumping speeches on the subject of how the dream has not died.
I know because I was there. The month stated should be December and not February.
Apology accepted.
[ Thanks Gordon. February was the month given in the press release, but having now checked, I see that it was supposed to be December. Although the event has now passed, I have amended the month so it is at least accurate as an archive reference. – Editor ]
Difficult to believe that we are having to resort to petitions in order to try and prevent what appears to be a genuine crisis for salmon stocks and potentially for the wider natural environment. For the Scottish Government to ignore the statistics and continue as if nothing is wrong would be criminally irresponsible,
Such a shame that yet again the river owners and coastal salmon fishers are at loggerheads. The Scottish heritage industry is again challenged by landowners whose only aim is to protect lucrative riverside beats.
Perhaps detractors should look to the salmon farming industries contribution to the nations economy.
“Using the Scottish Government’s multiplier, the £36 million wage-bill translates to an input of almost £166 million to the Scottish economy, most of it in the Highlands and Islands. According to its own figures, the industry spends a further £223 million on supplies and services in Scotland – £143 million of this in the same area. Of the 6,200 full and part-time jobs in aquaculture, 1,579 are in remote, rural locations – and contrary to popular perception, just 13% of these jobs are held by migrant workers. On the face of it, these impressive totals would appear to outweigh angling-related jobs lost to the area.”
The hard fact is that they aren’t interested. The motorised traffic lobby will always win.
Two recent significant spends in Aberdeen are useless. Making pavements shared paths alongside Great Northern Road and Jesmond Drive are pointless for cyclists.
In Great Northern Road, the surface is poor and there are bus shelters with their concomitant bus queues along the route, narrowing it and blocking it (no fault of those queuing for buses). There are a number of junctions where cysclists have to stop, take cognisance of traffic and start from 0 MPH again. I’ll take my chances on the carriageway and in the bus lane, thanks.
On Jesmond Drive (and in Dubford/Greenbrae), there has been significant spend on dropping kerbs, signage and paint to encourage cyclists to use the pavements. Not when I’d have to stop at every one of the dozen or so road junctions, I’m afraid. I suspect that this is almost an admission that there is going to be a significant increase in through traffic on Jesmond Drive (despite Council denials, without supporting statistics) once the Third Don Crossing is opened, and pesky cyclists must be kept off the carriageway. I’ll still be there.
Give me the properly thought-out and adequately-resourced infrastructure that SEPARATES me from both motorised traffic and pedestrians and I’ll use it.
The Bay of Nigg, the jewel of Aberdeen, soon to be lost forever? I regularly walk near the path south of the foghorn, at all times of the year. There are many varieties of birds to photograph, and rockpools at low tide for parents to take children to investigate. Various plants and insects for close-up photography.
Interesting rock formations carved by sea action.
A run round by the Bay of Nigg is enjoyed by many bus-loads of tourists, and regular minibus trips with local groups of pensioners.
The area has been badly neglected by the city fathers (and mothers?). Now it is to be obliterated?
Contrary to the opinion of some I’ve never met you but I will be attending a “Je suis Charlie” event in a small village in South West France tomorrow. It promises to be an extremely poignant occasion and I will think of some of your words when I’m there.
“to send the youth of Scotland to their deaths in the madness of the trenches of France and Belgium during the first years of that war” Gosh was it only the Scot’s fighting in the trenches…. but you do not mention the Scot’s who were at Omdurman….referring only to “British”?
Sorry but your first paragraph uses the same emotion rousing misinformation that Kitchener used to rally the troops!
Would you mind answering why this publication is not up in arms at the proposals for the hideous Marischal square development?
I’m really intrigued as it appears right up your street.
Could I hazard a guess and say the fact no “rich” figurehead makes it a missable target? If Wood, Milne or Trump was involved you’d be all over it like a rash in my very honest humble opinion. It does the credentials of this place no good at all, again in my opinion. It makes you look like a left wing propaganda rag in my opinion.
As for the Charles Hebdo incident it’s something that’s been in the post for a very long time and will only get worse, another thing the left wing needs to look at itself very closely over, mass immigration with very little integration was always going to end up badly, it appears Enoch Powell may have been correct all along. A lot of these people don;t want to live under the laws of their chosen lands, they want to impose Sharia law on the indigenous people, the slaughter of the journalists is but one example of this in my opinion. Again all in my opinion, I know it isn’t a paragraph that will sit well with the resident lefties here but it’s what many people are thinking, your ilk have created a runaway train and now have blood on your hands in my opinion.
Hello Bill. Sometimes I get the oddest feeling of deja vu – or of banging my head against the wall. This publication is only what the contributors make it; it does not take up arms. I would have thought the various articles about Marischal and St Nicholas’ House over last year would have counted as coverage, but perhaps not. I do hope that the people who have strong feelings about the project either way (there is at least one petition in circulation) will choose to do an article.
As to your assertion that ‘people of your ilk have created a runaway train and now have blood on your hands’ (we had to add ‘in my opinion’ obviously) – i look forward to seeing what others have to say about your stance. From where I sit it’s not the people with opinions that have blood on their hands, it is the people who have killed others who have blood on their hands. Always interesting hearing from you, Bill. Suzanne
Bill, you really ought to read my stuff sometimes. I explained in a column ages ago that I’d campaigned against the development, against anything that would alter or change the Provost’s House. I was going to give a deputation – but having done the homework, realised the ship had sailed. I wish the campaigners well; I’ve signed petitions that are out there. They are more than welcome to do an AV piece – as are you; something we’ve hinted at several dozen times. I don’t like the plans; it doesn’t matter to me that none of the usual suspects seem to have direct connections to it. So – exactly what have you done about it if you’re an opponent? Am all ears (as any photograph of my face seems sadly to show).
Bill- you are, as ever, entitled to your view, as others are, but it would serve you well to temper some of your throw-away statements, which are insulting and rather inflammatory, and, in my opinion, serve no useful purpose in debate, if debate it is you wish. I would recommend that you read Stephane Hessel’s “Time for Outrage”.
I thank you for your recommendation but I’ll pass.
Perhaps you’d be well served ignoring my posts if you don’t agree with them, my points are perfectly valid even though they don’t fit with the happy clapping majority who cheer lead here.
Further confirmation, if indeed it were needed, about our local press coverage (or lack thereof) regarding the Marischal Square project – despite making headlines over the past few days in the ‘Scotland’ section of the BBC website, & being mentioned on ‘Reporting Scotland’, not a peep on the Evening Express website (which unlike the P&J does offer the option to comment) or on the STV ‘local news’ programme to date.
I agree Carolyn, in the past we could always rely on the vocal minority groups such as the Aberdeen voice to make a fuss but it appears no one wants to know about this development. Such a pity the likes of Mr Trump had not invested in it as we’d have had mass dissent in my opinion.
I suspect Suzanne, that Bill is so eager to read your column the second it becomes available, and so quick to click on it, that he misses that little piece of info which has been a feature of our front page for just over four and a half years.
So for Bill’s benefit, and for anyone else who may have missed it ….
“Aberdeen Voice is a weekly independent online news and information source. It promotes Citizen Journalism in Aberdeen and the North East and is not affiliated to any Political Party or the interests of any private company, lobby or third party organisation. Its focus is to give a voice to the general public in the North East and to promote inclusion in affairs affecting the region.”
William Yunnie was my gg grandfather, born 1841 died 16th March, 1888, of a heart attack. He died in the school house. My great grandfather, Alexander Yunnie, was born in 1868 so he probably was a pupil there when the school opened. Alexander was a mariner and settled in Australia.
I hadn’t noticed the late flurry of activity here so will try to keep it brief.
Bill,
I don’t really get the “left wing” or “right wing” thing. I just try to form a reasonably informed and objective opinion and am usually not slow to voice it.
I am against the Marischal Square development. It is a disgraceful dereliction of duty on the part of Aberdeen City Council IMO. That I was more vocal in my protests about the Trump and UTG developments was not a result of being against “rich” people but was a reaction to what was, in my opinion, a blatantly dishonest and corrupt campaign run by the Scottish Government, Aberdeen City and Aberdeenshire Councils, local businessmen, influential and mysoginistic quangos and the local media, to name but a few.
I considered the campaign to be not only one – sided, dishonest and corrupt, but that it included a level of bullying, intimidation, and self – interest which rendered it unacceptable. I don’t like being lied to and I don’t like bullies.
This sparked me to do some googling on Islam. I couldnt understand why these people had to be killed in Paris last week, I had to find reasoning.
Its not just an isolated incident tho` iis it? Remember the people in Pakistan who where all killed at school, bombing, burning and shooting unarmed children, teachers, victims, the stuff happening in north africa with again similar sights – and these acts against fellow Muslim`s. 2 North Africans thinking it would be a good idea to run over a man in combat trousers and then chop off his head in front of a crowd? Also I hear ISIS are throwing Gay men off cliffs
I need to bring up some ugly heads, nobody will like, but her goes.
It seems there is a cultural tendancy within Islam for a man to marry his brothers daughter. I wont use the laymans term, but supposedly after 5 mins googling this accounts for just under 50% of the Muslim community in the UK. Also Muslims account for 3% of births in the UK, but account for 30% of all birth defects.
Now, if this is true. If you can imagine somewhere like North africa where almost all are Muslim and there is as much as 80% of marriages as described above and there is no NHS to care from them?
If this is true, somebody is giving them guns? 🙁
I think maybe the likes of George bush and Tony Blair havent done anything to help, But I think Muslim culture is the problem here. I dont see it as a race issue or a religious issue, but a cultural one. The religion is somewhat invalidated by the culture. (NLP?)
And dont get me started on FGM, but thats not just Islam, but again, still a cultural issue I cannot accept.
I would dearly love peoples thoughts good or bad. I dont see myself as a racist. I remember skinheads from the 70`s beating up Black ppl on the streets and demanding they go home from whence they came. for me this is a racist
But these days it seems the Police are scared to protect children in Parts of north England incase they are accused of being one.
We rightly welcome allcomers to our country, but some of them are just downright ugly.
It also annoys me that everytime these bad people strike, our goverments capitalise on the situation and bring in more laws to infringe on our privacy
The Shoe bomber was treated for a mental illness, is this a clue?
Hope nobody offended. I might be wrong. I hope i am
Three SNP articles in a row in this weeks AV without any balancing pieces from other political views. I know AV publishes everything but this policy is now very obviously being exploited and makes the Voice appear highly partisan, especially today.
I completely agree Mike and whilst AV can hardly be held responsible for the apparent unwillingness of other political parties to submit articles, I feel that the right to submit such propaganda should be accompanied by a responsibility to respond to legitimate challenge, as is customary on such public forums.
Has Alex Salmond no shame? This is the man who, in my view, intentionally misled the Scottish Parliament, the BBC and the people of Scotland by lying about EU advice and then using public money to cover up his deceit. This is the man who, allegedly, instructed civil servants to block the release of information explaining what he spent the missing £54,000 of public money on during a short stay in a Chicago hotel. This is the man who, in my view, intentionally misled the Scottish people by instructing public servants to produce a White Paper, based on a fictional minimum oil price of $113 per barrel, and declared that the result of the independence campaign would be accepted unequivocally as an expression of the “sovereign will” of the people of Scotland and then changed his mind when he lost. This is the man who held private meetings with a foreign billionaire, by the name of Donald Trump, days before an unprecedented decision was taken by his government to “call in” an application for a private development on behalf of Mr Trump, a move which would lead to the overturning of a democratic decision by local government and the circumvention of established legal and democratic procedure and process, the building of a private development on a unique piece of land which had the highest possible level of legal protection, the flagrant abuse of the rights of those living close to the development and the catastrophic failure of the resort to bring the jobs and tourism Mr Salmond himself had promise would result.
Mr Salmond is, in my view, by far the most dishonest and unscrupulous politician to have “graced” the British political stage in recent years and it is, in my opinion, rank hypocrisy for him to complain about the withholding of information. or to suggest the majority of MP’s are not “decent” hopefull the voters in the Gordon constituency will be sensible enough to thwart Mr Salmond in his quest to insult our intelligence from Westminster instead of or perhaps as well as Holyrood.
Having spent three years as part of a campaign telling us that any prospect of an oil price collapse was mere “scaremongering” inspired by the Westminster establishment, the SNP MP tells us that we need the Westminster establishment to help us out now that the scaremongering has become a reality. Ms Whiteford, in my view, appears to validate the opinion of her boss who suggests there are very few “decent” MP’s at Westminster.
Well, Mike – as always the “other political views” can post to AV if they can be bothered. Also, Bruce Wood has taken the time to respond to the piece.
So incensed am I by this article, that I can’t resist continuing my response. Alex Salmond, in this piece, accuses all MP’s of all parties “with very few honourable exceptions” of deliberately delaying the publication of the Chilcot Report, for their own political ends, and even accuses Lord Chilcot himself of being complicit in causing this undue delay.
This is an independent inquiry, chaired by an impartial and independent individual who is universally considered to be completely above reproach. The reasons for the delay, as has been explained by Chilcot himself, have nothing to do with political motives and indeed any effort by politicians to expedite the publication might even be interpreted as an attempt to engage in the kind of political interference which would compromise the independence and integrity of the inquiry.
This barrage of criticism by Salmond, aimed at anyone and everyone except the SNP, is a disgraceful example of political opportunism,cynicism and hypocrisy in my opinion. Wouldn’t it be great indeed if we could have such independent inquiries in Salmond’s Scotland, where events such as those already mentioned in my initial response and the arrest and detention of journalists, for the crime of investigating private developments, including the role of the First Minister, could be properly scrutinised rather than, for example, asking the police, now a state police force directly accountable only to the Scottish Government, to investigate themselves behind closed doors.
Ann-Marie surely has a point. In fact several. If you ignore the fact that she is writing from a partisan viewpoint and look at her bosses claim that “there are a few decent MPs left at Westminster” then what is there to disagree about?
I particularly like the statement “Mr Salmond also said the “Maxwellisation” process, which allows individuals due to be criticised in an official report to see the criticism and respond prior to publication, had become a “device for procrastination”.
I really wish I had said that.
So Duncan, if there is little to disagree about, then perhaps you or Ann -Marie or even the great Salmond himself can provide some substance to these accusations.. For example, which MP’s or participants in the inquiry are deliberately holding up publication of the report. Which politicians or participants has Chilcot “allowed” to block, tackle and delay. Is it all of them or some of them, George W Bush, a good old fashioned world conspiracy led by Zionist rogues, or are you in a position to name one single individual who is holding up publication and provide evidence for such a claim. If, like Mr Salmond, you are unable to do so, then I would suggest your comments might be based on a combination of prejudice and politics rather than an objective appraisal.
You support unsubstantiated claims that politicians have sought to delay the publication of a report and express your overt admiration for someone, on the basis of a statement which claims that individuals, “due to be criticised” in an as yet unpublished report, have used their right to view and respond to the report prior to publication, as a vehicle for delay.
In expressing such support, one assumes you might just have some semblance of evidence to substantiate your claims and that you might indeed have specific individuals in mind. Otherwise, it might be assumed that your support and agreement with Mr Salmond is based on nothing more than prejudice. Your response would, in my view, appear to confirm the latter.
With regard to “Zionist rogues” I use this term because, sooner or later, those who indulge, as Mr Salmond and yourself appear to do, in extremely imaginative and, in my opinion, crackpot conspiracy theories, these theories invariably end up pointing in the direction of “Zionists” “Jews” or the “Israelis” often via the CIA, FBI or some similar organisation. I’m sure you’re aware of people who suggest that there was a Westminster led world conspiracy to deny independence to the gallant Scots and that it was the Israelis who destroyed the Twin Towers, you know the kind of thing.
Do you have any evidence to substantiate the claims made by Mr Salmond and supported by yourself or are you just another imaginative eccentric with a little too much time on your hands?
I’m out of the country at the moment and fortunately not tempted to sample the delights of the Bates/Salmond/ Trump triumvirate in the Press & Journal, so am indebted to Aberdeen Voice for keeping me up to date as I appear to be missing some riveting material.
It”s amazing how things work our sometimes. Here we have, for example, three amigos, who some seem to think cooperate too closely, and the appearance of what I consider to be blatantly misleading and clearly unsubstantiated SNP propaganda on my favourite local news site. Some of this propaganda has been submitted by one Ann Marie Parry, who is the Parliamentary Assistant to Alex Salmond and who used to be employed by the Press & Journal, where her boss would have been Damian Bates. Closer inspection even reveals that some articles, penned by Ms Parry during her employment at the Press & Journal, appear, to the casual observer, to be deliberately designed to give credit to Mr Salmond on local issues and now here she is working for him in an official and professional capacity.
Perhaps Ms Parry could become the Face of Aberdeen 2015 or Rear of Year or something important like that and go on to become an executive at a golf resort or something equally exciting? Just a thought!!!!
I think it’s great that the SNP want to particpate in the Aberdeen Voice and are having articles submitted. Other parties should follow suit. But on the subject of Alex Salmond and inquiries, i’m not sure the pot should be calling the kettle to publish inquiry results. David Milne, Menie Estate resident, mobilised thousands of eligible Scots to call for an inquiry to look at issues POST the planning approval for Trump’s Menie Links course, which saw our SSSI protection overruled by the development proposals Scottish Enterprise and Trump came up with. This inquiry would have had 7 governmental agencies forced to reveal relevant information as to how they conducted themselves. This would not least have covered the arrests of jounalists, the lack of any real environmental monitoring (what there was of it was, IMO, a complete farce), and more. Alex Salmond’s government decided that the way forward was to ask the departments involved whether they thought an inquiry was a good idea and whether it was needed. Surprisingly, all the departments asked said that an inquiry was not needed – and that was that. Perhaps we should in future ask someone caught red handed in the middle of a crime whether or not they think a trial is needed? But do keep sending the articles in. I think it’s great that Salmond and his operatives have embraced media careers; good luck to Alex with his Press & Journal column (though I suspect luck and jouranlism won’t be greatly required). Alex – you are still awaited by your constiuents at Menie – do make that call.
Indeed it is the rank hypocrisy which is the most galling thing about this attack. Salmond’s decision to ask those, whose reputations would have been at stake, to decide whether or not there should be an investigation, is in sharp contrast to the public inquiries and robust committee interrogations at Westminster.
Perhaps Mr Salmond should look closer to home when talking of dishonourable politicians?
On a personal note: I was one of the many objectors who wrote to the City Council about the absurdity of the Muse scheme last year. They offered me a 5 minute window to speak to the full council – and dozens of others were offered the same chance. This was then increased to a possible 10 minutes. When I was trying to decide if I could get another day off of my work to attend the (undoubtedly) full day hearing, I discussed the matter with an official at the council. Without getting anyone into any trouble – we discussed the matter and they, like me, were of the opinion that addressing the council would have been a waste of time – as the matter had already been finalised. That’s how the mainstream media presented it; that’s how councillors were presenting it. I doubt a 10 minute talk from me would have stopped the development. However, if I knew there was even a slight chance, and that I could have gone on the city’s records as objecting to a destructive scheme that had not yet been set in stone, I would have done so. I am not happy, to say the least.
Duncan your expertise is clearly needed by animal welfare and government agencies round the world, here is a link to some 300K+ sites that think seals should not be disturbed by people https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=seal%2C+and+disturbed%2C+and+hauled+out+and+people . To ignore is to pay no attention to. If someone tells you that you actions are going to disturb wildlife, but you choose not to heed that advice, you are being ignorant. Happy to have helped you understand this piece.
I am familiar Suzanne with the issues involved. I have visited the site on many occasions. As for your comment:
“Duncan your expertise is clearly needed by animal welfare and government agencies round the world, here is a link to some 300K+ sites that think seals should not be disturbed by people https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=seal%2C+and+disturbed%2C+and+hauled+out+and+people . To ignore is to pay no attention to. If someone tells you that you actions are going to disturb wildlife, but you choose not to heed that advice, you are being ignorant.” I am bemused.
What exactly do you mean?
Looking at Duncan’s “informed” comments it’s obvious that educating the public at Newburgh beach is required. Simple “graphics” type signs rather than an instruction. People like to think they are making A decision rather than being instructed what to do. Although you will still get people who know best.
Is fencing an option?
I agree with them, our City centre is a shambles, the referendum result should never have been ignored, the CGP would have been the perfect start to regenerating our City centre, instead we’re left with a dank hole in the ground that resembles a plowed park.
Sort it out Aberdeen council, go back to Sir Ian on your knees and apologise for your mistake, let the will of the people happen.
I seem to recall you mentioning, some time ago, that “Bill Stephens” is not your real name. Whilst the initials you choose appear to be entirely appropriate, would it be impolite of me to ask if you are Damian Bates?
Instead of worrying about a bunch of seals and trying to shame some innocent people simply walking on the beach. Why not concentrate on shaming the farmers who mostly ignore the NVZ regulations and continue to spread muck onto fields during the closed season, the run of will poison the waters of the Ythan estuary causing far more harm to this nationally important habitat!!
Even one of the dogy links at the bottom of the Aberdeen voice web site shows greater cruelty to that poor lizard just to get clicks and a laugh!!
Seals swim around harbors etc where there is far more disturbance…..and to some seals are vermin?
I’ll leave it to others to explain why they are ‘worrying about a bunch of seals’ – but people who are told their actions are disturbing wildlife are not to me ‘innocent’. you make an excellent point about the pollution: are you willing / able to write such a piece? It would be most welcome. However – I’m at a loss about ‘dodgy links’ – AV’s website doesn’t have any advertising on it – something I’m personally very happy about. (See the ‘about’ section for more info). If you are willing to send a screen shot of the ‘dodgy links’ – I’ll be more than happy to look into this.
The “link” was in the “You may also like:” section showing a lizard being held in a stream of water from a tap and the poor thing was trying to climb up the water, it seems to have been taken done now… I agree with other comments, re seals being dangerous and for their own safety people should keep clear. I will consider your request for an article on the almost blatant disregard to the Aberdeenshire NVZ regs…
Seals are fairly hardy creatures and will not be fazed by a few walkers on the beach…
hello – I’m waiting for someone more technical minded to look into why you get a ‘you may also like’ section – could it be your browser or where you log in from? Whether I’m travelling/home/otherwise – when I go to https://www.aberdeenvoice.com and link to the articles, I see no links to stories/ads/ anything that is not on AV. We don’t take ads; we don’t link to pages; we’re funded by donations alone. Will get back as soon as possible. Please do write that article. On a related note, some years back I seem to recall a Stewart Milne related company accidentally polluted some NE waters; I never did find out what the outcome was for the environment or if the law got involved. Will try and research. I look forward to your article in due course. But as to the seals – I go along with the widespread view that they are often exhausted and are trying to rest when hauling out – and that like all wildlife, keeping a distance is sensible and respectful.
Dear John – thank you for bringing this to our attention. Aberdeen Voice’s technical people looked into it and discovered that ‘shareaholic’, a system we use, had changed their service – without any notice or consultation – and started linking AV to advertising and other stories. I’m not the only person contributing to AV to be very unhappy at this development; it will be stopped. But back to the seals – seals haul out often out of exhaustion; scaring them back into the water if exhausted doesn’t do them any good. See also the link I posted in response to Duncan Harley; many wildlife experts agree: stay away from hauled out seals.
John, I wish to add my thanks to you for pointing out the link on our site. Like Suzanne, I was unaware that we were being linked to pages we were not responsible for posting.
I am assured that the issue has now been sorted out, and such links will no longer appear on our pages. We don’t always have control over how updated elements of the site will behave, and where there may be potential problems, these do not always come to light immediately.
However, with your help, and being alert to the issue, we will keep a close eye and do whatever we can, as soon as we can, to prevent such links reappearing.
I am an Aberdeen exile living in Glasgow these last 20 years. I visit Aberdeen regularly and on every visit I usually find an area/building and I find myself saying “they haven’t done that have they?”. But they have.
The city centre is indeed a disaster IMO. What is Union Square all about, ditto the St Nicholas Centre? As for Union Street, this once interesting thoroughfare / shopping street is now best avoided.
Steve Harris is right ““Aberdeen is a stunning city with beautiful parks and gardens, a beach that runs for miles right into the city centre and some stunning architecture.” That’s because they city fathers have not yet managed to completely spoil these so far. I suspect its just a matter of time however. The newer developments at the beach are horrid. The sports centre (Transition Extreme Sports) is possibly the most ugly building in the world set in a location where it is impossible to hide it. Very unfortunately it is not alone.
I love Aberdeen, its a great city, but folks, please ask the city fathers to respect its integrity. Not everything has to be about making a short-term buck.
adjective
Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
Describing the walkers as ignorant was at best giving them the benefit of doubt. In reality they are behaving deliberately and recklessly towards the wildlife in the area. There is no justification for it and they are showing no respect or appreciation for our local environment.
Once someone gets a nasty bite or their dog mauled they will soon get the message. seals will bite humans who get too close, they have a very powerfull bite and can quite easily bite someones hand off with a quick snap. i think it will just be a matter of time before a kid or pet dog gets seriously hurt or even killed by a seal at the ythan estuary.
One has to laugh at the incessant barrage of SNP propaganda, much of which would, in my opinion, make them a laughing stock, were it not for the ideologically obsessed hordes who appear to hang on their every word.
The new leader of the SNP – Ms Sturgeon, says she intends to lead a government which is “open, listening and available” just as her Finance Minister bypasses the national negotiating body for local councils, to issue a direct threat that any councils, who cannot recruit sufficient teachers, will face stringent financial penalties as a consequence and that there can be no negotiation on this self – defeating strategy.
Of course, it seems like only yesterday that the SNP claimed to have legal advice on EU membership, in the event of independence, but claimed that to publish their advice would be in contravention of parliamentary regulations. When they were ordered, by the courts, to publish this advice, they used public money to fight this ruling, only to eventually concede defeat and admit that, not only did they not have the advice they had claimed could not be published, but that they had never even sought such advice. In other words, they had lied.
Then again, there is the example of Mr Alex Salmond refusing to account for £54,000 of public money, claimed by himself during a short stay in an exclusive Chicago hotel. When an FOI request was submitted, it was claimed that to disclose the nature of this secret, could compromise his personal security. Mr Salmond, when challenged in Parliament, infamously described the sum as a mere “frippery”.
One might suspect that Ms Sturgeon’s idea of being “open, listening and available” may be slightly different to that of most reasonable people.
I believe the dog walkers are showing great awareness of the seals. They have the dog on a lead they are approaching in full view and giving the seals a wide birth, for the contributor of the article to decide it was too close is a matter of opinion, the seals will decide and as there is no mention of a stamped into the sea, so the space given must have been acceptable to the seals. You can only judge by the photo but the seals in the foreground look relaxed and many seal colonies have become accustomed to human presence.
Possibly an apology to the dog walkers is required by AV
There are two sentences relating to the dog walkers: “Last picture is a couple walking their dog on the other side.
Thankfully the dog was on a lead and they did give the seals a wide berth, but still a little close for comfort for us watching.” As
the people who observed them are offering a legitimate opinion, and the intent is to raise awareness, I for one don’t see any need for AV to apologise for these sentences. For me there is no doubt that the potential of the walkers/dog disturbing the seals existed. I think the photo illustrates clearly how close they were to the seals – surely there is no need to be that near.
Clearly the dog walkers are not ignorent or the dog would not be on the lead, they are also hugging the dune line giving as much space as possible. Who’s to say that if the seals had moved these two would of stopped and retreated. They should be held up as an example of how to behave around seals. Remember this area is not a protected seal haul out site and there are no restrictions to the public, proper behaviour should be encouraged and the photo suggests they did, yet your artical implys otherwise.
Won’t somebody please think of the seals!!! hahaha
Absurd article IMO, if the seals are not happy they’ll just swim somewhere else. Won’t be a problem for long anyway as the windfarm will either kill them or they’ll avoid the area IMO.
There can be no doubt that anyone, particularly dog – walkers, must educate themselves if they intend to engage in recreational activities, in close proximity to the natural habitat of wildlife.
As a dog lover/walker, I had to learn some basic rules some years ago, in order to take advantage of the great outdoors, with my dog, and to do so without upset to the wildlife and/or local gamekeepers. I had no hesitation in volunteering my ignorance, when seeking information, and learned much from those who make their living in the countryside and who have a lifetime of knowledge.
To have no knowledge of something is to be “ignorant” of the subject and I really can’t understand why so many appear to be upset by this term. Furthermore, to willfully ignore signs, in such circumstances, is both ignorant and irresponsible, in a more general sense.
Bruce I agree with you there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners and ramblers going about. What in the photo even remotely suggests that the dog owners are being ignorant or irresponsible? The photo of this couple should never of been posted in this story as you’ll now doubt know wild animals have a fight or flight reflex for the witness to say that they were too close to the seals without them fleeing into the sea clearly suggest that they weren’t. A responsible couple out walking their dog has been vilified in this article.
You ask ‘what in the photo even remotely suggests that the dog owners are being ignorant or irresponsible?’ Answer – their proximity to the seals. There is absolutely no reason or need to be walking a dog close to the animals. Believe it or not, but dogs have on occasion disobeyed their owners, lead or no lead, and wildlife has been injured and killed. You personally are happy with the distance between the seals and the dog/people – the people who were there on the day were not. This is a difference of opinion – and as they were there and you were not, there is nothing wrong with the way the matter is covered. Villified? Again – look at the two sentences, and please advise what in the article is ‘villifiying’ them. You seem rather obsessed by these two sentences; do you know the people by any chance? I can’t help but wonder.
Suzanne to answer your questions no I don’t know them, I wish I did as I’d certainly be making them aware of your comments. You state they are too close from a photo taken with a long lens where the distance is misleading. You have vilified because you have a photo in an article with the title ignorant walkers. You’re obviously not reading my points so here it is again THE SEALS DIDN’T MOVE SO THEY COULDN’T OF BEEN TOO CLOSE. There is no matter of opinion if the seals move too close they don’t not too close it couldn’t be any more black or white. You make a childish reply to Duncan about his expertise maybe you should offer your services to biologists as clearly you think animals after thousands of years of evolution have been misjudging safe distances. I’m asking the more educated and unbiased editors of AV to remove the photo and all mention of the dog walkers or point out that they are an example of how to you use this stretch of beach responsibly.
I am glad you are so concerned for the dog walkers and for Duncan. I guess we will agree to differ. There is definitely something for dog walkers to learn from the two sentences you are so IMO overly-concerned with – and that is leave seals a respectful distance. Seals and other wildlife are not respected by all walkers and dog walkers. A fawn was ripped to pieces two years ago at Crathes by a dog that was assumed by the owners to be under their control. Seals cannot look after themselves; they are being attacked, shot and exhausted seals forced back into the water by walkers disturbing them – well meaning or not. If you can’t admit this is the case, we shall continue to disagree.
Duncan made a sweeping, and obviously false, claim that ‘seals can look after themselves.’ This is not my opinion; it is backed up by wildlife experts, animal welfare charities, court cases about people who have killed seal pups, and so on. I gave him a link showing a host of such information disproving his claim, explaining that hauled-out seals need to be left in peace. I don’t think there is any further mileage in me continuing to re-state the obvious. But thank you for adding to the debate; it helps draw attention to the very real problem of people disturbing wildlife and in this case potentially disturbing seals. One of my many roles is as a safety rep: the basic principle of avoiding any sort of problem or accident is to take all steps to minimise risk. That’s what the dog walkers should have done – in my opinion.
Felt VisitAberdeen Mannie’s bit was definitely sub-stunning The phrase ‘fine merchant houses’ seems to be borrowed from Edinboro, the ‘sunken Victorian Garden’ – (wherezat?) – is possibly a phrase being used these days by those afraid to say Union Terrace Gardens in case SIW comes along and clobbers them. Archibald Simpson was not responsible for the entire Marischal College as is indicated, only the inner quad, delightful though that is, why can’t the VA Mannie give His Majesty’s Theatre its name in full, why doesn’t he mention OA and the ongoing work at Rubislaw Quarry? Why doesn’t he tell us what the North of Scotland Bank is nowadays? Takes me back to the dire dark days of PR man Jack Nichol (probably not spelt correctly).
If anyone’s been following the news of late, Chilcot has explained his difficulties in conducting and concluding this inquiry, including the difficulty of obtaining correspondence between Blair and Bush. I for one would hate to see Chilcot rush his conclusions – which surely must, IMO, damn Blair’s actions. I trust everyone is now clear that (unlike I fear many other inquiries) Chilcot is trying to do a thorough job which should not be rushed.
Sadly we witnessed at least 30 people within 5-10 yards of the seals today. Beautiful day at the estuary but not respect the colony and watch at a distance? Why not watch them like most people do, from the other side or at least from the safe distance of the dunes. It almost looked like a coach tour. Little children, families, dogs and photographers with massive lenses. One man with camera in hand walked right down to them causing about 20 resting seals to dive into the water, obviously frightened at his rapid approach. He then proceeded to film them swimming away! If they truly believe they are causing the seals no harm, I could almost understand the desire to get close as they are beautiful creatures. But, really why not leave them alone and watch at a distance like others do?
People need to watch the seals from a distance, they do bite and carry bacteria that we need special antibiotics to clear. Plus the distress caused for the animals themselves is aweful, its still pupping season for greys so interfereing may cause pups to be abandoned before they should be. Also if you see a seal or cetacean in distress or wounded you can also call British Divers Marine Life Rescue (BDMLR) on HOTLINE: 01825 765546 during office hours. 07787 433412 out of office hours. Thank You.
Stop investing in wind farms as this technology is a drain on the public finance £1.8 billion has been paid to operators since May 2007 in the form of a subsidy known as the Renewable Obligation. National Grid has paid out almost £80 million to wind farm operators in Scotland since 2010 to shut down their turbines and keep them idle. Operators are paid by the government to build them and paid by the national grid to keep them shut down win win for the operator lose lose for the bill payer.
Perhaps you’re on the wrong thread? There are a few fishing/seal related articles of mine. For the avoidance of doubt; isn’t one of them. But as you bring the subject up, I’ll be interested to see how the salmon population is doing this year, and this may interest you further. http://news.stv.tv/tayside/308394-major-salmon-netting-company-usan-admits-flouting-fishing-laws/
Any further salmon/seal comments? Choose the right article to post them on. Tally Ho!
Council tax should be scrapped altogether and the poll tax reintroduced, it was a much fairer system where everyone pays the same for local services such as schools, rubbish collection, roads and street lighting. Under the council tax system a couple living in a band E house pays £2005.96 in Aberdeen City and £1,896.71 in the Shire a family of 4 adults in a band A house are paying £1094.16 in the city and £1,034.57 in the shire. Everyone in full time employment should pay a community charge to pay for local services.
In a week when SNP parliamentary candidates have been exposed for fantasising about “sticking the nut” on political opponents and SNP councillors have resigned, amidst allegations of the leadership tampering with and refusing to publish details of votes cast to select candidates for the Westminster election, one might have expected Anne – Marie Parry and Alex Salmond to do a little better than this.
In attempting to enable Salmond to bask in the reflected glory of a few local businesses winning retail awards, Anne – Marie continues her role, embarked upon as an employee of Salmond’s chum Damian at the Press & Journal, in seeking to portray Mr Salmond as some sort of superhero of the Garioch. I seem to recall her then seeking to give Mr Salmond full credit for the erection of a waiting room at Inverurie Railway Station. Now she and Salmond appear to simply look for local good news and then try to be part of it by writing letters, making meaningful gestures and foisting it upon readers of Aberdeen Voice.
Notwithstanding the dubious nature of such claims, is it not time Ms Parry took her role more seriously and started trying to explain why Mr Salmond sought, in my view, to con the nation with mythical tales of EU advice, currency union and oil prices which would never ever, no matter what anyone said, fall below $113 per barrel? She might even convince him to make a speech on when we can expect to see the thousands of jobs he promised would be created, and the runway extension which would be required to deal with all those tourists flocking to his friend’s golf course at Menie?
Then again, perhaps she is wise to stick to the local shoppies.
I suppose they have a point; those figures do come up quite a bit in my column. My column which covers events in the local news, which the people in question all featured in this past week (per the links supplied). Somehow this little clip comes to mind, of the lady disappointed at Fawlty Towers to see a view of Torquay from her B&B window in Torquay… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcliR8kAbzc Really, I should either refund their subscription charges to this free sheet, or stop forcing them to read it.
Cumbernauld and East Kilbride certainly should certainly qualify but Leven town centre has merit if only for the Carlow Hall. As a former Hamiltonian I cannot comment much on NE buildings except to say that, in common with most of Aberdeenshire, Aberdeen has a rich architectural heritage. Nuff said.
Again the police jumping to conclusions and making a drama out of nothing personally i think they watch to many movies and forget this is Scotland lol ive had police with search warrant and can imagine the aftermath as they don’t care when their rummaging threw your possessions!!?
I agree that if there is a definite reason, the police should search. The problem is that due process isn’t being followed in so many cases. Have you seen the statistics on how many completely innocent children are being stopped and searched? It’s unacceptable. Here is a link – they want even more powers over children who they can already stop and demand a ‘voluntary’ search from (how many children know their rights??) – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31460120
Seems VW wasn’t required to be physically present here in Aberdeen – merely to contribute from Belfast via a video link, but was still too busy doing whatever it is she does.
Yes, the story is that she had to meet the Permanent Secretary. Obviously she couldn’t have rescheduled the PS – or told him she was due at a hearing. Obviously the people running the hearing couldn’t have either rescheduled or insisted she attend. There is one flight to and one flight from Aberdeen every day, just for the record. So – the people throwing the hearing either were stood up at the last minute – or they knew she was not coming and they just carried on any way – and IMO allowed the thing to be postponed. I have to arrange meetings as part of my work with people coming from around the world at times, some very high profile. If I arranged a meeting, got everyone together and then simply said ‘so and so can’t make it’ without rescheduling or telling people in advance, I’d likely be sacked for incompetence. But it doesn’t work that way in government, does it.
It is clear that Steve Harris and other city officials do not understand why Aberdeen was given this well deserved title. Steve Harris talks about future but he lives in the past. All he can talk about is the historical architecture, clearly something what ACC could not take any prizing for – in fact they can’t even preserve this architecture- it is dirty and crumbling- apart of course from the ACC headquarters. Steve Harris mentioned Aberdeen University library….again, something what was initiated and build by independent institution so ACC can’t get any scores for that neither and even if yes then it is only one modern building which is worth looking at.
Having brought the NHS in Scotland to crisis point, the SNP are now seeking plaudits for trying to sort out the unholy mess they created. This is not particularly surprising but, nonetheless, might be considered deceitful.
The elderly are currently occupying beds, due to the lack of investment in social care, leading to longer and longer waiting lists, whilst the SNP sit back complacently and again, in my view, seek to con the electorate with their phoney statistics and patronising drivel.
Alex Salmond, in my opinion, ought to retire gracelessly from politics, to spend more time with his betting slips, rather than continue to sell us his unique brand of snake oil.
On the same day that SNP Health Secretary – Shona Robison apologises for “hundreds of cancelled operations” Alex Salmond tells us that “the SNP Government is committed to ensuring that this progress continues…”
I’m sure patients across Scotland will be grateful to Mr Salmond for such comforting words.
Short term gain as usual, while public transport gets worse, people living further from work, future congestion,pollution and industrialisation of our countryside, not everyone sees it as a good deal for the NE
or for the future
Couldn’t agree more John. This was an ideal opportunity to investigate radical ways of improving the North East transport infrastructure, including rail services to the west and north. The only guarantees that new roads bring are, as you say, more congestion, longer commuting times and more pollution.
This road is being built, not to ease congestion, but to provide a “development corridor” for the usual suspects to bless us with their beautiful housing and commercial developments.
Once again, Alex Salmond and Christian Allard make claims which, in my view, cannot be explained by mere ignorance and ineptitude and I therefore conclude that they are, once again, deliberately misleading the public for short – term political gain.
Aberdeen Voice is a weekly independent online news and information source. It promotes Citizen Journalism in Aberdeen and the North East. Its focus is to give a voice to the general public in the North East and to promote inclusion in affairs affecting the region.
What about this article is current or local? Why don’t you report on violent crime down 13% crimes of dishonesty down 8.5% continued encouragement of victims of sexual crimes and domestic abuse with detection rates at 98% for domestic abuse. Try reporting on the good work Scottish police are doing.
It would be nice to hear something positive on the local area from this author unfortunately I don’t think we will. However Aberdeen is only a very small city in an expansive globe, its not a prison and anyone can leave anytime they want to find their utopia.
Without wishing to be disrespectful Jim, I would suggest that the statistics you cite refer to reported crime, rather than actual crime, and, as most people are aware, many crimes simply go unreported, such is the lack of confidence in the police, or are so common that they are hardly considered to be crimes anymore. Furthermore, I would venture that, if you really do believe these statistics to be truly representative of real crime levels, then there is certainly no need for you to go looking for “utopia” as you must already be there.
I’m not quite sure what you would define as “local” but I would certainly consider the arrest of the named journalists, a few miles from Aberdeen, to be so and fail to understand the lack of a real public outcry at the unwarranted arrest and detention of journalists, whose lawful investigation included the involvement of a First Minister in the nefarious dealings of a foreign billionaire with links to organised crime. That the same ex First Minister went on to oversee the creation of a state Police Force, whose level of accountability is now openly being questioned in Parliament, the routine arming of that Police Force and the shameless appointment of politically sympathetic individuals to lead the quango, to whom the state police are at least notionally accountable, merely adds to my curiosity at the lack of interest, from the mainstream media, in what I consider to be the clearly questionable conduct of our politicians and police.
There is no doubt that Aberdeen Voice, and the author of this article in particular, do a fine job in providing comment which is not, unlike more widely read local news publications, motivated by political or commercial expediency.
So people just arnt reporting breaking, asults, antisocial distubenceses, or car thefts because they have no faith in the police, I wonder how the claim insurance without a crime stopper number. To suggest it’s due to people simply not reporting crime is like suggesting that fires in grampian are not due to the good work that the fire service do in the cummnity educting the public. But people just don’t report fires anymore.
On the trump story local yes current no 4 years ago and in almost every article she writes about. Walter never arrested escorted from the conference by security not police stopped the following day by police to check his credentials for 15 minutes. An ex liberal party member thrown out for being a radical conspiracy theory isn’t is almost arrested 6 times (how do you almost get aressted) while promoting his latest book.
In an article named we need to talk about the police we have 3 incidents over a 10 year period , I’d say that’s a good job if other sectors had a record like that they’d be congratulated.
This is my utopia born here raised here worked all over the world but always return here. Like I said there is no locked gate at the bridge of Dee, if you don’t like Aberdeen feel free to leave because plenty think we’re doing fine.
Jim’s raised a few issues I’m happy to comment on – accuracy of the police’s stats (which has been rubbished by the government), arrests (I used 3 case studies; I could have had dozens), and whether or not this is utopia.
I am happy Jim has found his Utopia; indeed I love Aberdeen city and Shire for many reasons – but certainly not at the expense of losing my critical faculties. There are many things to fight for to stop the many problems we have. For the purpose of the series of articles about the police, we have a national problem with the police. I am far from alone in thinking so.
In October 2014 a Commons select committee published a report on the appalling quality of police statistical accuracy with the damning title “Caught Red Handed…” Here is an excerpt:-
“Measurement of crime is based on two main statistical sources: (i) the Crime Survey for
England and Wales (CSEW, formerly the British Crime Survey) and (ii) Police Recorded
Crime (PRC). The CSEW and PRC provide strong evidence that the overall volume of
crime has been falling. However, there is an accumulation of substantial and credible
evidence indicating that the PRC data do not represent a full and accurate account of crime
in England and Wales. Of most importance, we have strong evidence that PRC underrecords
crime, and therefore the rate of decrease in crime may be exaggerated, and this is
due to lax police compliance with the agreed national standard of victim-focussed crime
recording. As a result of PASC’s inquiry and the evidence we have exposed, the UK Statistics
Authority (UKSA) decided in January 2014 to strip PRC data of its designation as National
Statistics. We conclude that the Home Office, ONS and UKSA have been far too passive in
the face of concerns raised about PRC; they have repeatedly missed opportunities to ensure
the integrity and quality of PRC data.
That a select committee concluded police under report crime is enough vindication for me. I would have included it in the article – but in fact I thought it was well known and accepted that under reporting is the case. I’ve had people come to me with stories about how the police in Aberdeen turned them away from reporting crimes – theft and attempted theft. In the case of the attempted theft, the police said they wouldn’t be interested unless the item was actually stolen. Someone had tried to steal something; they were caught, chased and disappeared. The police had a description, had information on where the person might possibly be: they decided there was no action they needed to take.
This article only gave three examples; one to show how the Terrorism Act could be raised when clearly no terrorism of any kind was involved. The story of Baxter and Phinney show the police to be, in my opinion and the opinion of many I know, to be influenced by the rich and to interfere with legitimate journalism – in our own back yard. If this isn’t a worry, and the subsequent lack of any proper investigation or censure of the authorities involved, it should be. As to bringing in the beliefs and history of the man arrested where it transpires nothing criminal happened, we should be very worried the police are misusing – in my opinion – law to stifle dissent.
Back to crime statistics, there is a movement in the police to ask people to solve their own crimes – if you can believe it. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/04/police-telling-victims-solve-crimes-themselves – this is one of the means they have of keeping stats artificially low. That stats are lower than reality is not my opinion; it is a finding of the sub committee.
Perhaps Utopia is some place that is perfect in every regard where everyone’s rights are respected. If so, as fond as I am of the area, landscape (what’s left of it), and the people, this is not Utopia.
Jim a question. I write about Trump quite a bit (among dozens of other subjects). Do you also complain to the Press & Journal, which frequently features stories about Trump (always glowing)? Just wondering.
Again, with the greatest of respect Jim, if your stock response to any comment you deem to be negative, is to say, and I paraphrase “if you don’t like it why don’t you leave” then I wonder why you continue to read all of the articles penned on Aberdeen Voice.
I don’t believe there are any “locked gates” here are there?
Well Bruce this paticular contributor consistently writes negative points about Aberdeenshire even when she’s writing a review on a band.why she felt it necessary to comment on the state of icy pavements and criticise the council in here review of altered sky I have no idea. It’s a shame because the reviews on this site are normally informitive but as soon as this writer goes of on a tangent about council, local press or trump in totally unrelated article, you have to ask why stay.
and yet here you are, Jim – staying on this article even though you seem not to like/agree with me. It’s as if you feel that adding your comments and contribution might change things to your liking. Perhaps we are not so different, you and I. Have already explained that unlike you, I see huge areas where city govt and institutions such as the local newspapers need to be reformed. If anyone reading this article is wondering what he means, I reviewed a great performance by Altered Sky. The attendance wasn’t as high as I thought it should be, and I wondered if the freezing temperatures and icy pavements kept some people at home (which believe it or not sometimes happens). That is the tangent being referred to. Tally ho!
It was a Wednesday. It was freezing – anyone who hadn’t wound up in casualty from falling over on our icy pavements (note to city council – can’t you do something about this?) were staying in and staying warm. I’m still perplexed as to why icy paths casualty and the council have anything to do with a review of a band. I do believe you don’t even know your doing it.
Jim: http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/local/icy-aberdeen-pavements-blamed-for-93-people-attending-a-e-in-one-day-1.798816
Perhaps now we can stick to comments relating to this article.
(For anyone who is interested in why a music review dared to delve into Aberdeen’s winter logistics, the band Altered Sky didn’t have as large an audience as they might have. I decided the awful weather might have been a major factor. The review continued: “The band was freezing as well. Furthermore, with a young demographic, perhaps midweek late wasn’t the best time to get a large audience. But audience size never should impact performance, and even if the crowd was smaller than I’d expected, we had a good set from the band.”)
Everyone who lives in Aberdeen knows the pavements were icy, it’s the same every year. I still don’t think it was necessary to include it in a review. No other contributor to this site feels the need to digress from the main topic to have a snide dig at local council for the condition of the route they took to get there. Altered Sky may well have been a group that I would go see unfortunately I was turned off reading the full review when it turned into a political rant.
Back to the article, in a survey by the Sunday Post 56% of Scots believe that Scottish police should be allowed to continue the practice of stopping and searching people, without needing grounds for suspicion and with verbal consent. In the interest of impartiality 38% felt the service on offer had got worse since the 8 forces merged, while 15% thought there was an improvement 30% no change. There is evidence that the stop and search policy is working on reducing the knife crime that Scotland was plagued with a couple of years ago. There were 903 assaults involving blades in the period 2012-2013, compared with 1,439 the year before, a fall of 37 per cent. The rate is down 57 per cent since 2006-2007, when 2,138 knife attacks were recorded.
While human rights layers will argue against this policy, who stands up for the law abiding citizens whose life’s are ruined by the knife attacks that still happen. The vast majority of people in this country are more than happy to be searched by police a 5 minute inconvenience, but if they manage to stop one mother from burying a child then it was worth it.
You refer to the select committee report vindicating you it was on the police force in England and Wales. In Scotland the crime figures are sourced from two sources of crime statistics in, police recorded crime and the Scottish Crime and Justice Survey (SCJS). I don’t live in England or Wales and read the Aberdeen Voice because it claims to be local.
Since you want to write about the UK we’ll look at the anti-terrorism law, and Walter Wolfgang he was ejected from the conference and his pass confiscated by security, he tried to re-enter the next day without his pass he was stopped by the police when his name was flagged up and had to wait 15 minutes until the Labour party cleared the situation. What action do you want the police to take? His name was flagged as being evicted this was a party conference for a sitting government the highest security levels were in place for obvious reasons only 20 years earlier the Conservatives had their conference bombed by the IRA. The police followed the laws as set by government it was 15 minutes he wasn’t arrested he wasn’t shipped off to Guantanamo Bay.
This weekend we see 3 teenage girls groomed by terrorists, to leave their families and travel to a foreign country to fight. Who’s to say that they won’t return strap a bomb on and walk into a school/football stadium or concert? This happens in other countries and its only due to the secret services and policing policy’s in this country that it hasn’t happened here before oh wait it has happened here. There is a real threat to the liberties and safety of the citizens in this country but not from the police or government rather it’s from religious radicals.
You never questioned my opinion of the publicity seeking Donnachadh McCarthy who was in parliament square to promote his book. Let’s look at why the police have to now have strong presences at, in recent years peaceful protests have been hijacked by anarchists who have a completely different agenda to the march organizers this is not isolated to G8 summits, a protest march for against the changes to local authority pensions was hijacked tuition fee protest was hijacked and the occupy protests were also hijacked. The result is damages have run in to the millions, ultimately this cost is filtered down to the public whose insurance premiums have rocketed and the terror for local citizens going about their daily business. The police were vilified in England for allowing the riots of 2011 to quickly spiral out of control by using a softly softly approach. I guess they can’t do right for doing wrong.
Anthony Baxter the only local issue in the article in a local news site, I’m confused as to the article in one point it’s stated that the criminal charge was thrown out by the Crown office, but then you state that they were released with a caution. My understanding is that you may be offered a caution as an alternative to prosecution and if you accepted then this would count as a criminal conviction. Unless a conviction is a certainty they should never have accepted the caution and they would have had their day in court. Why did they accept the caution maybe you can ask them if there was an option to have a day in court and prove innocents surly this would of been the route to take.
I do not believe that my grandparents had any more civil rights than I have today, the fact they lived in much safer times after the WW2 than we do now. The police are there to protect the public and do so to the best of their limited resources in face of some of the most challenging times in history. With a starting salary of 23k who would even want to be a police officer with the risks that comes with the uniform, I take my hat off to every one of them for standing between me and the threats we see daily on TV and read in the press.
The solution to the problem is to stop having a world in which nations compete against other nations – we need a system of wealth redistribution between all countries to ensure that important habitat can be preserved worldwide on the basis of most important habitat first. We also need to understand that all resources should belong equally to all the world’s people and not just to the people sitting on the land where those resources happen to be found. It is selfishness that drives all the destruction, and the people where most of the damage is being done are the least to blame for that damage. The blame lies here and in other wealthy, lucky countries. We need to share out that luck until there is no luck left at all.
One wonders if Mr Salmond, who has already described Scotland as a “nation of drunks” and who is currently campaigning to prohibit Scottish football fans from enjoying the same rights as other UK and European citizens, in relation to alcohol, intends to pass emergency legislation to prevent alcohol consumption at golf events. Or could it possibly be that Mr Salmond thinks it is only working class Scots who constitute his “nation of drunks” whilst those middle – class model citizens, who share his love of golf, dodgy pullovers and “slacks” can easily be trusted to drink responsibly, refrain from beating up their spouses and to resist the temptation to drive whilst under the influence of alcohol.
Salmond’s Scotland seems to be one in which there is one law for the working class and another for his golf playing buddies. Regrettably, we still await the thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of tourists and flights from all over the world, which we were promised when Salmond helped out another of his rich fellow golfers.
Here’s an idea for Mr Allard. Why doesn’t he start explaining why our NHS is already in crisis, after eight years of an SNP government who recently reported a £444,000,000 underspend whilst our hospitals struggled to cope, instead of seeking to score party political points to further his democratically rejected ideological ambitions?
Indeed, whilst he is about it, he might like to explain why the present SNP First Minister is spending tens of millions of pounds every year, on an airport which nobody uses, not least because there are little or no flights, whilst our hard pressed citizens queue at food banks.
He might even like to explain why the SNP told us they had EU advice, then admitted this was a lie when instructed to publish the advice by the courts and why the ex SNP First Minister has refused to divulge exactly what he spent £54,000 of public funds on, during a short stay in a “luxury” Chicago hotel. After all, a man can surely only receive so many shoe -shines in a couple of days!
One wonders why Mr Allard is so keen to call for action from politicians elsewhere, whilst refusing to explain or accept responsibility for the actions of his own government ministers. After all, what do the SNP have to hide?
Was just looking up on this drunk thing, this may be one of those press things that is taken out of context. Not that exciting really. I`m guessing nobody you know drinks too much? next time your at a football match ask a nearby policeman on his views on football crowds, you never see the police playing cloud control at golf tournaments, they shouldnt even be at football matches, but it seems football fans cant behave themselves, so we are back to square one. btw I dont do football or golf, but I do drink regularly, but rarely get drunk 🙂
I`m guessing 100k for the new golf event is seen as an investment, might not pay back tomorrow, but if its a regular yearly thing, then it will bear fruit one day I spose.
I’m having difficulty understanding what your point is, in relation to my own comments, but will do my best to respond anyway.
One politician, and football fan, has suggested that alcohol might be served, in football stadiums, for a limited period prior to the matches and at half time. This would, as he quite rightly points out, be consistent with common practice in other parts of the UK and throughout Europe. The ex First Minister has responded by suggesting that Scottish football fans cannot be trusted to have a drink, in a football stadium, without transporting us back to a mythical dark age in which drink fuelled football fans engaged routinely in mutual jihad before going home to teach the wife a lesson she would never forget, or at least not until the next match. Mr Salmond has some form, in voicing his opinion that Scots are uniquely unable to control their appetite for alcohol, by infamously denouncing us as a “nation of drunks” but has never before suggested we are, as a race, uniquely unable to imbibe the merest sip of the devil’s brew, in a strictly controlled and highly supervised environment, without deciding our opponents are in possession of weapons of mass destruction, with which they are capable of destroying our home city by the end of the first half, and making an appropriate pre – emptive strike!
Mr Salmond, in his rush to party political posturing, forgets that, during his mythical dark age, alcohol was not served in any football stadium in Scotland and never has been. The abuse of alcohol, to which he refers, was a result of fans being permitted to bring copious quantities of alcohol into the stadiums, sometimes when already blind drunk, with which to aid their descent into their coma of choice. This practice, I should add, was peculiarly unique to the followers of only two of our football clubs and to Glasgow and the surrounding area on particular. No one is suggesting allowing this to recommence and there is no reason to believe that fans would suddenly change their routine, from drinking in welcoming hostelries before and after matches, or not drinking at all, to drinking heavily in cold unwelcoming stadiums with insufficient open air walls and fences to relieve themselves against, should the demand for the similarly insufficient, but regrettably less desirable, official toilet walls lead to gridlock.
With regard to Salmond and golf, the £100,000 may, or may not, be a sound investment but his scandalous depiction of the majority of football fans contrasts sharply with his fondness for, some might say sycophantic drooling over, rich golfers and even richer foreign billionaires, with a penchant for the vulgar and alleged links to organised crime. That Mr Salmond has, in my view, gone as far as to lie, collude, conspire and sell out his own constituents, to further the interests of such golfing tycoons, not to mention his litany of lies during the referendum campaign, leads me to view him as a corrupt, immoral and unprincipled crook, who is unfit for public office and who should be condemned and criticised at every opportunity.
You are right to state, albeit clumsily, that there is more potential for misbehaviour at football matches than at a golf event. I would simply suggest that anyone whose passions are aroused by the sight of a fat guy, dressed in clobber admired only by the likes of Donald Trump, Alex Salmond and your run of the mill Russian oligarch, oh and maybe by those people, whoever they are, who buy replica expensive watches to kid on they’re rich or, even worse, just to show they want everybody to know they like rich but stupid people, need to get out more.
Apologies to John, and anyone else who reads this, for my rambling, possibly incoherent, response. I had some spare time this morning and run off at the fingers a little.
To the Editors: Is there a reason for this emerging phenomenon, in which contributors to your news site refer to themselves simply as “Jim” or “John” or is this just a coincidence?
Bruce have you ever been to a football match? Alcohol was sold at many grounds, Pittodrie had the “nip trolley” in the main stand from which whisky and vodka was sold from bottles with optics. Beer was also sold from the food kiosks. Fighting was not limited to the two clubs from Glasgow you mention one of my first games was Dundee against Aberdeen, where I recall being brought to tears as a 6 year old with the fighting both inside and outside the ground. Fast forward 30 odd years and games are better policed and the consumption of alcohol is banned on trains and busses, crowds segregation has meant that it is now becoming family entertainment where the number of families going has increased in the last few years, but the young child who was struck with a missile throw from the Aberdeen end on Sunday at Parkhead proves that some football fans cannot be trusted. Introducing alcohol back into the Scottish domestic game will send it back to the dark ages as you put it. It would not be beneficial to anyone even the clubs who make more profit from a cup of coffee than they do a plastic bottle of Budweiser.
Whatever your personal hatred for the former first minister your argument in this case is well wide of the mark.
Season ticket holder at Pittodrie and responsible drinker
In general, I choose not to reply, whether in casual conversation or written correspondence, to those whose lack of sophistication and intellect, or just basic ignorance, renders them, in my considered view, to be ill equipped to absorb knowledge or to form an informed opinion or coherent argument. Sometimes, however, such people are sufficiently irritating that I am prompted, contrary to my better judgement, to waste my valuable time and respond. I tell you this simply that we understand each other a little better.
I attended my first football match at Pittodrie, as a four year old I hasten to add, in 1962 and, until adopting the lifestyle of a somewhat hedonistic hobo or when playing on a Saturday myself, never stopped going regularly to matches, both home and away. During all of these years, I have witnessed and, due to my impetuous and fun – loving nature, been caught up in scenes which would, judging from your sensitive nature, lead you to tears again. At no time and in no stadium in Scotland, can I ever recall being able to purchase alcohol at the pie counters or anywhere else. I may, of course, be wrong but, other than yourself, I can find no one who can recall doing so either. As for “nip trolleys” in the stand prior to the outright alcohol ban in 1980, are you seriously suggesting, even if this were true, that this sparse band of elderly citizens, resplendent in twin sets, anoraks and tartan rugs were known for singing “come and have a go if you think ye’re auld enough” if they decided to have a wee sherry as an accompaniment to their potted heid sandwiches and flasks of tea at half time?
Football fans, who choose to drink, can currently drink as much as they like right up until kick off time and do likewise afterwards. Unless you are saying that the booze in the Blue Lamp or Pittodrie Bar, for example, are watered down, I fail to see how having a drink in the stadium is likely to make them behave any differently to drinking in their favourite bar or club.
As for Mr Salmond, you confuse hatred with contempt. Only today, I am reminded of the corrupt nature of this odious individual, by the announcement that he has chosen a Rupert Murdoch owned company to publish his forthcoming book and of how Lord Leveson found him guilty of lobbying, at Westminster of all places, to further the commercial interests of the very same Rupert. That this was done, in return for political support from Mr Murdoch’s own newspapers in Scotland, makes it no more acceptable than had he done so for financial gain.
That he now chooses to continue his relationship with the not so PC Murdoch, for financial gain, from the publication of a book which, it is alleged, was partly written by publicly funded civil servants, cements his reputation, in my view, as a crook.
I think they should treble the number of wind turbines, cos when that idiot trump opens his mouth all that seems to come out is wind. i’m sure that idiot could help generate a few extra kw next time he comes back over here.
This is an experimental development of turbines, designed to give the nation experience in the design of renewable energy equipment, and offshore engineering. We want high technology, professional engineering jobs, not third-world servant jobs.
David is a tireless campaigner on issues surrounding disability. He is an amazingly aware person & understands about government cut will impact on ordinary citizens. I have no hesitation in supporting David for this award.
It’s all very well talking a lot but what, one must ask, has Ms Whiteford actually achieved for her constituents? As a member of a single – issue party, whose sole aim is to agitate for the democratically rejected ideological obsession of Scottish independence, Ms Whiteford remains a total irrelevance in the UK Parliament.
Perhaps she should spend more time explaining to her constituents exactly why she, and her colleagues, continue to defy the “sovereign will of the people of Scotland” instead of acting constructively on their behalf.
Cant say that during her stay in Aberdeen that I found the lady approachable. She was less than pleased when we had a demo in the foyer of the Marischal College on the day it opened. John Stewart was at least pleasant with us but she, obviously just back from a stay in the sun (and earned her the name of Fake Bake from a placard holding protester) just stopped short of stamping her feet. It maybe takes a special kind of person to get the best out of her. Perhaps a former chair of a campaign, oops sorry, a nurturing group, would help out to get her to co-operate . He managed to “loosen her up” and said she is “amenable to influence”. Sound advice that could perhaps be passed on.
This is brilliant news and proves that Aberdeen recognises the strong connection through historical and heritage links to the past. I exhibited a day of Traveller culture at Clinterty last year and found the children were so proud of their culture. Sites will make a monumental difference, I’d recommend P&Kinross take a leaf from Aberdeen Council’s book.
Allard on Twitter this morning pretending he knew nothing of this. Shameful dishonesty.
Refused to say how much SNP paid towards policing of their own conference. I suspect it’s zero?
My main recollections of Ms Watts include her behaviour in Council Chambers, when she appeared to, in my opinion,dispose of something extremely nasty upon her employees from a great height. During a Council meeting, senior council employees respectfully and politely sought to explain the folly of a motion moved, and largely supported, by Councillors of the then Administration, not least because of a lack of resources. When the Councillors appeared to take umbrage at such apparent dissent, in reaction to the idea of a clearly unworkable policy, Ms Watts interrupted her employees to point out that, and I paraphrase based on my own potentially prejudiced interpretation:
“…..if this is what the Councillors want then I will ensure that it will be carried out and all the necessary resources provided to ensure that their demands are met, and if my employees can’t stand the heat then they can just……” I don’t think I need to labour the point, but this reminded me of so many career – obsessed, selfish and sad individuals, whom it has been my misfortune to encounter, but if that is how some people choose to lead their lives then who am I to argue?
On a lighter note, I am reliably informed, but cannot confirm, that it was the same Ms Watts who complained to the then Grampian Police, when a mannequin, by the name of Helena Torry, was registered to stand for election to Aberdeen City Council. The subsequent flurry of police activity, including covert operations, led to a major manhunt to locate the dangerous fugitive, who was allegedly brought to justice with the help of specially Mossad trained agents, in the vicinity of a well known and apparently excellent restaurant in the vicinity of The Green. Helena was to be detained, in solitary confinement, without food or water and made to sleep on an old bag(no pun intended Val) for a period of some months, before being cleared of all charges, as I recall.
No backbone and no sense of humour, some uncharitable individuals have been heard to venture!
Said companion of said Helena Torry called me from the back of a police van to say that she was being detained and could I please get help! Poor Helena was ‘armless – mostly, except when bearing a placard. Have to say I agree with your assessment of Ms Watts. And she, along with others, made a pig’s ear of the C of C bid. So ‘amenable to influence’ – not so sure about that!
Hello Bruce Wood – Unless I’m havering, and at my age could well be, I remember you as having fishing industry connections. Have I got that right? I am well, as is the family. Where do the years go?
I agree with Martin Ford that the Scottish government should not have been taken in by Trump and the benefits have not materialised at the cost of our SSSI. Because his planning application has not materialised surly he can be made to compensate for the areas loss of promised jobs and investment and the planning consent should be withdrawn. I don’t think the American public would be taken in with his absurd thought he could come close to being in any way adequate material for president. Then again the Scottish government were taken in.
He must be stopped and not allowed to profit from planning gifted to him at our expense. the planning must be revoked. There will be no inward investment he will be taking the money for our land out of the country. Take the bull by the horns and let him rant, threaten and say what he likes just don’t let him profit from us, throw him out.
All very laudable but, given Aberdeen Crossrail has been spoken about for over thirty years and we only have Dyce and Laurencekirk stations re-opened, I wouldn’t be holding my breath on this one.
With the existing rail infrastructure, it is perfectly possible to operate a thirty minute service from Stonehaven to Inverurie, even with the installation of additional halts/stations. In the short term this could be achieved by realigning the timetable between Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen to provide the above service. It would, of course, require additional coaches and train crew
The cost of pouring concrete in to the dubious scheme fo Union Terrace Gardens.would be more than enough to fund Aberdeen Crossrails implementation, so one does wonder what our illustrious politicians and bastions of industry are playing at. Common sense seems to have flown out the window. A partial solution to the city’s gridlock is staring them in the face.
I am in complete agreement with you. We are a city with the sea to the east and rivers to the north and south(stating the obvious I know) yet there is no political or industry lobby to do the sensible thing and create a modern integrated public transport system, based on rail and a proper support network to make it work for the benefit of all.
Having briefly discussed this some years ago, with a local Labour MP, I was dismayed to find that such an idea was thought to be an impossible dream, such is the lack of ambition and imagination of those, of all political parties, who represent us. I therefore suspect that we are right not to hold our breath.
I would go further than this: with the reopening of the Deeside line at least as far as Banchory if not Aboyne, the doubling of the Inverness Aberdeen line to enable a regular hourly service, and why stop at Ellon, Peterhead and The Broch, would seriously benefit from the economic boost a reopened railway would bring!! Turriff, Banff and Oldmeldrum could equally benefit from reconnection to the rail network….And electrify the lot!!!
Let the wind turbines that now blight our countryside do something worthwhile!
What I fail to understand is, why the public are not actively clamouring for such a strategy. The benefits are obvious in the extreme. My only disagreement with you is that I feel the Deeside line could be re- opened as far as Ballater. There may be some difficulties, but none of them would be insurmountable.
Opening the line to Peterhead would (in my opinion) reduce the congestion on the A90 & A952. Given that some hundreds of houses are being built at Mintlaw, and that, I would imagine, most of the occupants will end up commuting to Aberdeen, a park & ride rail scheme would be a good idea.
These are magnificent creatures and we should do everything in our power to save these beautiful animals, too much culling of poor defenseless animals are allowed
The SNH and city will say that deer have (allegedly) been involved in 30 accidents last year. Well, if we left them some habitat and put up signs to warn motorists, things might be different. The city have repeatedly been asked to put up deer crossing signs (like you’d see further north or in the USA) – but the city says people ignore signs. Somehow that doesn’t stop the city putting up all sorts of other signs. If only they wanted to move the deer – but that is (laughably) illegal: they just shoot them. The logic for not moving deer is that some of them would die if tranquilized (I am sure there are ways to measure doses of such tranquilizers). So instead the SNH shoots 100%, rather than giving some the chance to be relocated.
I used to live beside the Gramps as we knew it then. I walked the dog there regularly, rode my horse there regularly, and played with my son there when he was a little boy. We even had barbeques there. The deer have lived quite happily on this hill for years. Why does man have to interfere and ruin things. This area should be for the people and the wildlife to enjoy. STOP KILLING OUR WILDLIFE
So sorry to hear about Bob Smith. I always enjoyed reading his weekly poetry and frequently found that he not eloquently expressed my own sentiments, but also led me on nostalgic trips to places I had long forgotten.
I never met Bob but suspect that they just dinna mak folk like him ony mair!!
It is not the 1950s. Almost anyone can now afford to buy and run a car and that is why the roads are congested. Train travel is inconvenient in comparison and not particularly good value anyway. The only way the congestion problem on the A90 between Aberdeen and Peterhead will be solved is by sorting out the A90 itself once and for all so that it can actually handle the volume of traffic thrown at it now, which is probably not going to change any time soon, railway or no railway.
It may help reduce the freight traffic on the A90 in the long term, but that’s it…and we are talking about companies that have been used to using the roads for freight for more than 40 years now. It won’t stop one tractor taking the whole road down to a 25mph limit for miles at a time. Only another lane will do that. It won’t stop the tailbacks at the Ellon Road because no one will swap using their own warm car for a convoluted, multi stage journey in the freezing cold, and it won’t stop the tailbacks when the dual carriageway merges into a single lane at Balmedie because, guess what? Everyone will still just use their own car rather than stand waiting for a train in diagonal sleet in the name of freeing up the A90 for someone else to use in your place.
Why waste years and hundreds of millions on half measures? Sort out the roads, move the North East forward – don’t try to resurrect an obsolete method of transport in the hope that it MIGHT help things A BIT. If you want to save the planet then why slap a great big (diesel) railway over the cycle path? It won’t save the planet and it will likely hardly make any difference to congestion. How long would people bother with the faff of (car, carpark, pay, station, wait in the rain, pay, train, wait in the freezing drizzle, pay, bus, walk in gale force winds) when they could just take their car that they already have and won’t be getting rid of anytime soon? Do you really think that Mr. Oil Industry in his V8 Audi with leather seats wants to rub shoulders with us sneezing plebs on the train instead?
A road based solution is the only real one. The end.
Not everybody can drive. It is unfair on us that these railways have been pulled out. And fifty passengers on a deisel train will always be more environmentally friendly than those same people in cars. How many cars on the street are electric? Plus there’s the damage of the batteries, and there’s still traffic congestion.
And I had the great privilege of being the subject
“THE DEBRA”
A’m hearin the news “The Debra”
As a cooncillor she’s nae ti stand
Nae langer haein ti watch her back
Or see fowk beery their heids in the sand
She’ll be missed nae doot o iss
Fer staanin up ti the bully boys
Like “The Donald” or sidekick Sorial
Fin fae prams hiv chukkit their toys
Noo Trump micht hae the thocht
The quine’ll be aff his back
If iss is fit the chiel’s thinkin
A doot he’s on the wrang track
We shudna jist think o Debra Storr
As a bodie close ti the Menie debacle
Oor Debra wisna feart at aa
Ony ither cause she wid tackle
She’s ti try her haun at plannin
As weel as workin wi Green Cat
Am winrin fit the mannie Trump
Wull maybe mak o aat
Am sure she’ll still show the flag
Fer a warld mair socially just
An keepin ti her gweed principles
Sustainable environments are a must
So a hope the ither cooncil fowk
Debra fer her wark div thank
As she wint aboot her business
Like some pocket Sherman tank
The cooncil chambers o the shire
Noo winna hae the same zing
Debra she’ll aye be thocht o
As the quine they cwidna ding
Such sad news to hear of Bob Smith’s passing – The Poetry Mannie will be missed by all his regular readers. May he rest In peace. Here’s another of his best.
Windfairms (Wi apologies to Wullie Wordsworth) by Bob Smith.
A wanner’t lonely as a clood
A stravaig’t throwe hills an pines
Fin aa at eence a saw aroond
A host o bliddy win’ turbines
Abeen the loch reachin ti the sky
Their massive blades a did espy
Conteenyus as the stars aat shine
They sproot on the taps o hills
Streechin in an nivver eynin line
We’re telt they’ll cure oor energy ills
Meybe nae ten thoosan at a gleck
As alang ma waak a did trek
The waves in loch aside me dunced
As turbine blades they did turn
A swore, a shook, a fairly prunced
An a near fell in a burn
A gazed an gazed in sombre stare
As whirlin blades they rent the air
Aft fin on ma cooch a lie
In vacant or in turmoil mood
There flashes in ma myn’s eye
An image a see fit’s nae good
An syne ma hairt wi anger fills
As a see crockaneetion on the hills.
Any issues one might have with salmon’s risks can be mitigated with a varied diet — something that’s tremendously important both for one’s health and for the environment.
I think most of would prefer to hear how the SNP would protect us from the crippling and unprecedented Greek style austerity programme, which would be necessitated by their proposed policy of full fiscal autonomy and the undisputed £7.6 billion annual deficit this would result in.
One might think they would be extolling the benefits of such de facto independence, yet it seems to be the SNP policy which dare not speak it’s name.
Bona Cola and two hot rowies clarted in butter. Such was the specialist sports nutrition, of the time, which spurred great victories from Harlaw to Nelson Street and from Linksfield to Kaimhill.
One suspects the “hot dogging housewife” might have a better grasp of basic economics and be less inclined to intentionally mislead people, in pursuit of her own obsessions?!
We had a comment from a Mr Murray; it contained unsupported allegations and with these removed, virtually nothing remained, except his comment ‘Oh, poor salmon’. If you would like to send in evidence of anyone harassing anyone (we have evidence of Sea Shepherd being harassed captured on video), or indeed of any ships being rammed, please do send this; we would be interested. Otherwise, your comments are not something we can publish.
Hi. We will be sending out cheques shortly, but first we have to cash the money and arrange times to present cheques to the charities, ideally with the appropriate winning acts handing over the money on behalf of Right Here Productions. Is there any reason you have implied we won’t be doing that?
The total raised for charity (thanks to our generous audience members and sponsors) was £2.650.
LABOUR COUNCILLERS ARE NEEDING A REALITY CHECK ,ABERDEEN CITY IS DISFUNCTIONAL,FACT ,THEY EVEN BLOCK COMMENTS LIKE YOU HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT in my opinion
Guessing wry missed the mark Dan. I obviously got the tone wrong and of course apologise for my error. Taking care to publicise the event in both Aberdeen Voice and Leopard Magazine demonstrates my wholehearted, continued support for the event and the charities it benefits.
I would not be able to offer support if I thought for a moment there were any concerns. It was simply the humorous stance you adopted on the night. Wishing you luck and looking forward to the next one.
I have seen this mind set for years rough wild areas not valued and often used as an excuse for planning permission calling it “waste land” The Donald Trump fiasco was the same. Trump said, “the people will love it, we will make this piece of land beautiful.” What he said sadly is what a lot of people think. Manicured lawns, neat and tidy planting achieved with the use of chemicals and pesticides. Give me brambles nettles and gorse any day.
Anyone who actually knows anything about the environment will know that getting rid of the deer will allow it to regenerate properly. Otherwise it’s about the same as having a flock of sheep grazing away at it.
If we want to get greener, we need to do our homework. Otherwise we all end up looking like a bunch of ill-informed hippies and don’t get taken seriously!
Ben, you’ve not read a single one of the articles on AV about Tullos, or so it seems. There is a soil report saying trees won’t grow. It is common knowledge the deer population on this hill was stable for over 70 years – no starvation, no overpopulation. The new SNH guidelines are controversial; landowners, animal welfare groups and gamekeepers feel the deer numbers proposed are far too small. You bring up the old ‘no natural predator’ argument. Did you know there have been no natural predators in Scotland for over 300 years? Yet somehow we have increased the acreage of woodlands, and the deer population has not spiralled out of control, whatever the SNH say. But this is about Tullos, where the city has ripped up considerable quantities of gorse and meadowland on what was a rubbish tip with a very rocky soil matrix and little topsoil. The hill is subject to the high winds which would make any trees subject to wind toss, and the salt spray from the North Sea doesn’t exactly favour trees either. Finally, I hardly see what your comment has to do with Bert’s apparent desire to have had this hill left alone.
Thanks for your comment. I’m sorry you feel the need to be so confrontational. We all want nature to flourish, we just have different ideas regarding the methodology.
I’m skeptical regarding the soil issues. I don’t doubt that the soil is contaminated. However, I would find it remarkable if vegetation is entirely unable to grow and set into action a succession. The ability of nature to reclaim what we have damaged is extraordinary.
I’m well aware that there have been no natural predators of deer for hundreds of years. This is why deer numbers have (and they have) risen out of control across large parts of the country (combined of course with management for high densities).
Of course, Tullos is a very different place and isn’t a deer moor. Nevertheless the fact remains that culling deer (not eradicating, culling) represents a straight forward method for helping the vegetation to flourish and in turn boost biodiversity. A cull on its own, of course, isn’t the only answer. Some additional conservation / management work would also be required…which seems to be partly what ‘A tree for every citizen’ is proposing.
It may well be true that the deer population at Tullos has been stable in the past. That’s fine, but at those levels it is unlikely that the ‘Trees…’ project would be a success. This represents a time when the (usually incompetent) council is actually making an effort to revitalise part of the city into a usable green space. Culling deer to help enable this to happen, is a good move in my opinion. In the end the habitat that is being proposed will be suitable (and better?!) for deer.
Finally, my point with regards to Bert’s comment was a little facetious. Whereas Bert would prefer the hill ‘left alone’ in terms of not culling deer. I would prefer the hill ‘left alone’ in terms of reducing the grazing.
Hello Ben; interesting that you find my response confrontational; I found your remarks about Tullos and letting predators loose just a bit condescending. But it seems you still aren’t quite on the page. This was a meadow. It never was a forest. There have been expensive attempts to grow trees on Tullos. A 2008 report to the city explains that this former rubbish tip just won’t support trees because of its soil matrix. People made money from the scheme to try and turn it into a forest; they were given power by the city and no debate at all was allowed; no experts allowed to speak on how to try and grow trees without killing deer. The hill is rocky as well as being used as a dump for decades (industrial waste, domestic, and a touch of uranium and other metals); we had a biodiverse meadow we enjoyed; now we have weeds and tree guards. Please do look back at the copious quantity of articles on Aberdeen Voice; it will help. Bert is right; for at least 70 years we had the deer and the meadow. Then the Lib Dems, especially Aileen Malone, pushed for this scheme.
Whilst I in no way endorse cruelty or shooting of animals for sport, do we have a moral responsibility to cull for the continued health of the colonies. With the recent evidence of cannibalism by SMRU from St Andrews, have we over protected some species to the detriment of the health and behaviour?
Hi Jim, it is possible, but not by any means certain, that cannibalism is to blame http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-31535600 . However, is it necessary for the SNH to decide yet again which animals it wants and doesn’t want, and to start dishing out yet more culling licenses? The only animal that the SNH seems reticent to stop being predatory, greedy and over-reaching is man. Raptor protection is laughable; wild salmon numbers are plummeting, deer, grey squirrels, seals, some birds are all culled with the SNH blessing, happily pleasing the hunting lobby at the same time. In fact, the lines between hunting and SNH goals and perhaps personnel are getting rather blurry, and the wildlife continues to suffer – imo.
Bridies or Bradies? Not being be from Aberdeen I call em Bridies, is this a pronunciation issue?
Oh, a definite Thains for me, haven’t been in some 20yrs tho….
As an enthusiastic cycling roadie, I can verify that there are many more accidents, involving cyclists, on our roads, than there are involving deer. In accordance with the spirit of the ACC strategy, I would, therefore, like to add my voice to the growing number of cyclists campaigning to be permitted to become the willing victims of “cycle cull” to improve the survival rates of cyclists across the world.
To all Range Rover drivers, I would like to thank you for unilaterally adopting this approach, in advance of any official policy implementation.
I wish the project success but wonder how long the rooftop location will be in use. Most such concrete buildings have a limited life and I wonder if the £200k will be well spent considering that the building may well be pulled down within the next decade.
A bit late, I realise, but why is there a kangaroo in the photo?
[ Haha …. yes, I have to agree that deer is very kangaroo-ish … You’ve heard the phrase ‘you are what you eat’? …. maybe something in it. Roe deer and kangaroos have a very similar diet – Editor ]
Ikea will be opening a small Aberdeen store in the future. It is part of the new huge expansion that Ikea is about to undertake to catch up with online shopping. This includes small stores, pick up points across the UK and a distribution hub between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Watch this space. Exciting times ahead.
In my opinion what a despicable excuse for a man Trump is along with his sons, from killing protected big game in Africa to buying supposedly protected land at a knock down price then fighting to destroy it making millions in the process. Not only here but world wide. I hope the planners, council and government now throw this application out and protect the land for nature. I would be glad to see the back of him. RGU should be ashamed giving him an honorary degree. He should be stripped of that as well.
This is a good example of what the drive for growth really means. More and more of nature is tarred over and re-formed to create a system for the flow of debt money so that the pie can get bigger and we all supposedly get a bigger piece.
Who else but economists would get away with the concept of a growing pie?
Certainly not scientists.
Other forms of development involving peoples’ real needs are available, but we have to demand them.
Absolutely outrageous that local media have not reported on this – thankfully we have Aberdeen Voice, & I hope those of us that read Suzanne’s output regularly pass on this info to family & friends. Indeed, I think I might send a link to this article to Aberdeen Journals & ask if they have any comment to make.
thank you for the kind words. Please do ask AJL why a Trump restaurant review gets a 2 page spread, but these plans and the pre-application consultation don’t merit an article; I’d be fascinated to know. It’s almost as if the P&J had some reason to deflect people from making any comment; but surely that couldn’t be the case.
Chuckling at your Trump update, Suzanne! I’m sure you won’t be surprised to hear that I’ve not heard a peep from Aberdeen Journals in response to the email I sent them which I mentioned in the ‘comments’ section of your article last week. Not sure that reminding them will do any good either – “The Voice of the North East” indeed…
The online register will be very useful, and will no doubt demonstrate how fairly, swiftly and impartially the Council acts with regard to deviations from approved plans. I can off the top of my head think of quite a few instances where such a register would be of great interest and importance.
I’m confused, the Trump people did place the adverts as required, are the activists up in arms about it because it wasn’t front page news and they missed them??
Oh and a big well done to the Wood foundation after the news they’ll spend £10 Million pounds building a new free to use hospital multi story at ARI, I’m sure the staff there, patients and visitors will be thrilled, odd you missed the news given how quickly you report any damaging news regarding Sir Ian. Perhaps you’re being as biased as the media you don’t like. There’s a thought, tallyho.
My late father in law George Melvin was the quartermaster sergeant in the RAF stationed at RAF Dyce, at this time . He was the person who drove the plane transporter vehicle carrying the coffins and remains along the winding country back roads to Dyce church yard where the remains were interred. There are only three gravestones and the remains of the third grave were eventually return to Germany several years after the war.
I find it disgusting and absolutely shocking at how biased this paper is. I seen the remarks that your so called journalist made on one of the animal sanctuary sites, and it was disgusting. The woman that runs the sanctuary that is so very obviously being spoken about here, works very hard and does it all herself. Your (so called) journalist was invited up on more than one occasion. But she never turned up at all. So how she has the audacity to speak about sanctuaries this way, without knowing the facts is not only slander, but is very very poor journalism. I can only assume that she couldn’t find the time to leave the brewdog beer for long enough.
I really really hope that some of the sanctuaries get together and sue this paper.
** [This comment is being published in full, in spite of obvious and valid reasons why some content contravenes publication criteria, as it has been published in full on a public facebook page. Therefore it appears futile to edit – Moderator]
For the benefit of readers, I believe Fiona must be talking about Northfield Animal Haven. As far as the article in question is concerned, it was a press release from other animal shelters – ones that do not sell animals at Thainstone to support saving other animals – and my name, Suzanne Kelly, was used in the article’s by line as ‘with thanks to’. I didn’t write the piece – which also appeared in local printed newspapers as well. But I stand by this initiative – who wouldn’t? – Suzanne
If there is anything more obscene than knocking down buildings with historical significance, it’s knocking those buildings down to make way for a service yard. Who wants to explain to the grandchildren that we levelled yet another completely sound and historically significant building — from the days when architects designed memorable landmarks rather than cash cows — in the name of a glorified, fenced-off square of glistening Tarmac dubbed a “service yard” along with the vague idea of hosting some teenage boybands?
It appears that one of the required qualifications for being an Aberdeen City Councillor (whether on the current council or those in bygone years) is that the candidate must be devoid of any appreciation for history and architectural heritage. There should be a new requirement for all candidates that they are tested for, and possess, such an appreciation – otherwise they can’t be on the council.
A tragedy indeed but it is difficult to imagine who would take on such a structure. The renovation and running costs would be severe and unless the building has unique architectural significance a future role looks dismal. There are many ruined buildings throughout the NE which have merit and this one seems destined for the text-book of history.
Agreed Duncan but is there no way, and I concede my naivety in advance here, of allocating the legal responsibility for securing a suitable tenant/ensuring adequate maintenance and protection for the building, to the developer, as a condition of planning permission?
From the outside, it appears that successive Council Administrations, both City and Shire, and the Scottish Government have been happy to sacrifice our architectural and environmental heritage, for very little in return.
Indeed Bruce. It is a sad state of affairs. Our land is littered with such ruins. Missed now perhaps but not valued in the past except in old words. Look at Hallforest, Pitlurg and the ruins of Slains. I see where you are coming from but doubt that the Council Tax funders of the Garioch would be happy paying for the renovation of past disasters.
All very laudable but, given Aberdeen Crossrail (Stonehaven to Inverurie) has been spoken of for over thirty years and only Laurencekirk and Dyce have materialised, I won’t be holding my breath. At the end of the day, if the line were to be re-opened, would it save commuters any time? Perhaps it would be cheaper to dual the road from Ellon to Aberdeen and provide a cheap (subsidised) park and ride facility between the two.
No mention of the drug den in union terrace garden? Sir Ian’s gift of £50 Million pounds would have made the area attractive to local people, it was what they voted for after all, instead we have junkies shooting up yards away from our main thoroughfare. Shame on all those who fought so hard to stop the progressive plans, they must share some of the blame as what has became of the dank hole in the ground.
BTW Please provide proof Sir Ian has illegally avoided taxes?
If it’s via legal methods then fair play to him I say, one presumes you don’t use tax free shops at airports if your moral compass on tax avoidance is so high?
I say thank you to the Wood family trust, they could quite easily just keep the money and buy a holiday island or yacht, instead they’re donating a huge sum to build a much needed car park to ARI, the nurses and staff who struggle to find a space must be delighted.
my moral compass is fine, thank you Bill. So for you anything that’s not illegal is OK? Trust you were fine with people dying on illegal highs then. Here’s an article for you about the morality of taking money out of the UK’s taxes and one scheme used by SIW. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/jake-molloy-column-1905148 I’m sure you’ll be fine with it. The duty free issue is bizarre; and no, Old Susannah doesn’t go around buying expensive designer stuff at airports or anywhere else, thank you. Good on him donating £10 million. I do have to wonder how much tax revenue has been lost though over the years by this one offshore scheme alone. I pay all the tax I owe. If everyone did, maybe there would be no need for food banks. Food for thought
I’m lucky enough to have seen the inside of Strathcona house on many occasions, it’s a truly beautiful building, to demolish it would be a crying shame. Surely it would be ideal for a high end hotel or at the very least conversion to apartments, regardless the council should not be permitted to destroy it.
People buy alcohol and cigarettes duty free to avoid paying tax, what’s bizarre about that?? It’s a legal tax avoidance scheme that the majority of people will have used at some point in life. Companies would not be doing justice to their shareholders if they didn’t set out to maximise their profits, using tax avoidance schemes is their duty.
I’m not bothered about anyone dying of a legal high, I’m sure those taking them are well aware of the risks, it’s probably no more dangerous than alcohol, a legal drug that you like to promote but one that kills more people than any other drug in the World. It appears you have no problem owning shares in a company that makes this killer drug, it’s easy to shift the compass to suit isn’t it?
Oh Bill, you do make me laugh. Believe it or not, it is possible to drink in moderation; and millions of us indulge in this ‘killer drug’ responsibly. There is arguably no safe way to smoke, but no doubt you’ll argue the toss. Perhaps you should try googling ‘legal highs’ and see how well aware of the risks people were. All the best
I could easily argue the toss re smoking, in my pot smoking days I’d have one or two five skinners and retire to my bed quite happy, I’d wake feeling a million dollars, now I have 7 or 8 Stellas and wake feeling tired and rough, all down to my oil and gas bosses wanting me to be drug free.
I’m now free of those shackles due to the oil cull but not found the courage to indulge in drugs, I would though if I knew a dealer, perhaps I’ll head to UTG.
Good to see you back Bill, we’d wondered where you’d disappeared to. Each passing issue, without the icing on the cake in the form of a comment from you, has left us feeling a sense of loss. On the other hand, a sense of calm has not been unwelcome.
Right on cue tho, up you pop as soon as we mention the gardens or certain ‘philanthropists’. Guess you’ll be glad to have something to get your teeth into now the fitba season is done, eh?
Eager to engage with you as I am on these issues, time is short at the moment, and other than the need to welcome you back, there is another issue which will become apparent in the fullness of time.
So glad to see that we have not been required to edit/amend your posts tho. Might I optimistically assume the penny has dropped? It would be nice to think so. 😀
Tell me please how you get on in your endeavours to score some drugs in UTG, should you decide upon such research, and your statistics on the apparent supply and demand, and we may get an article from you yet. However, if not, then I at least have a wee reading excercise for you which I’m sure you will enjoy.
After the article was set, a college spokesperson said, “The End of Year Creative Art Show is the culmination of two years’ hard work. It’s an opportunity to show the best of students’ work to friends, family, future employers and the public. Space is limited and so curating decisions for the End of Year Show are made by the College’s Art & Design lecturing team to ensure that what is shown is right for this particular exhibition, and for our audience.
“The student in this case has an excellent portfolio and staff were keen to display work that highlighted the student’s talent. However one piece did raise concerns that it was not appropriate in the context of the show. Nudity was not a factor in the decision to omit this piece. The images were considered by the curators of the show and were deemed inappropriate for the audience who will be attending due to the hand gestures depicted. Rather than the student censoring their work and compromising their artistic integrity, a decision was made to omit this piece from the exhibition. The student will be exhibiting other work from her portfolio.
“Principal Rob Wallen is happy to discuss this decision with the student.”
Bibo Keeley replied:
“1. I was told that this was the sole decision by the Chief exec, I am not aware
of a selection committee. the reason given was ‘not the nudity, but the way is presented’. Nobody could tell me what that meant. It was not clear whether the gestures were part of this.
2. I am not showing work at all (by my own choice) now because I am not bowing to censureship
3. I asked if I cld discuss this with rob wallen and was told by the teaching staff not to contact him
4. It was me who offered to cover the nipples, not their suggestion
5. It was me who offered to exchange the pics with the hand gestures for other images
6. I was told that this piece is not going in whatever I do to it, and that the decision was final
7. As for the space, every hnc student gets one exhib board,
hnd students get more”
On reading the college’s statement, I was interested to note that there are people in charge of deciding what is / is not right for their sensitive audience. An artist has since written to say: “Another slant on this Suzanne is the curating angle and molliecodling the viewing public and deciding on their behalf that these images, for whatever reason, are offensive and they are doing us a favour. They are speaking for the silent majority after all…. It’s a fine line between a curator and the thought police and it’s happening all over the place.” The college’s comment mentions ‘future employers’ – happily for me, the degree shows I was in were not designed to be employment-related exhibitions, but rather a chance for students to freely show their work. The art in degree shows I was in (New York Institute of Technology; Edinburgh College of Art) were not in any way subject to curation; I think my fellow students and I would have found that an unwanted intrusion and would not have accepted any such curation, especially without a chance for discussion; Bibo says she was told not to speak to the head of the school and was not given an explanation for the exclusion. It is good to see the school is willing to talk; but it may well be too late. As to the claim the nudity was not an issue, but the hand gestures were, is this to say that one form of censorship was not in place but another form of censorship was?
“What is missing though is a proper museum/gallery” – I don’t see this comment as being accurate. Aberdeen has an excellent Art Gallery and has the Maritime Museum, Tollbooth museum and Provost Skene’s House. Additionally, the University of Aberdeen has several museums in Old Aberdeen which are open to the public.
” … probably because Aberdeen has never had to rely on anything else but oil and gas”. Really? Aberdeen has a long history, going back about a thousand years. The oil & gas industry has only been here about 50 years. Wonder what we were all living on/off before the 1970s? The harbour? Fishing? Agriculture and food-processing? Textiles? Paper-making? Granite? Shipbuilding? Our two universities and mega health-care complex? No, I must have imagined all that stuff!
I was fortunate enough to spend two years of my life in that stunning building. Though the place was mostly used as offices at the back of the building there were blocks of flats meant for students. My down stairs neighbour was a Belgium living with his grand mum. Like thoes grannies in the movies, kind and always offering food. Life was taking me to new chapter where I was learning to come to terms with the fact that good thing never last and feeling can be very dangerous thing. However, going through the bad patch the house on the other hand offered the cosiness of a home. That gorgeous building with the magnificent garden, lobby, stair cases and stone facing was like a kind parent waiting to refuge me every evening after work.
I had an occasional visitor in the middle of the night, voice of a lady wiping as if mourning for a loved one, which later I found out I was not the only one hearing it though no one other than the grand mum and I ever claimed to here it. She didnt come back after gran mums prayer though. Guess she was put in peace. Guess these are expected from old and charactered buildings as such.
I know u posted this 5 years ago but I’m trying to make some rowies for me dad we live in Hull but me dad is fae The Deen & he was born in 1954 so I’m guessin his favourites are probably going to be from around the 60s & 70s I dunno exactly but I’m just trying 2 find out the best ones from the people of Aberdeen’s point of view so that hopefully then I could maybe track down a decent recipe coz if u lookin YouTube & Google for a recipe well they’re all completely different which kinda adds doubt & also makes it hard 2 pick which 1 2 do so anyway i know it’s a long shot but if u do happen to get this msg could u maybe let me know a bit about the best rowies from around tht time that a kid from logie gardens might of had when he was a wee bairn plz? Thankyou 👍🏻 Leanne
‘The culmination of two years hard work’ where the student submits what they think are their best pieces and ‘someone’ at the college decides these pieces are ‘inappropriate’. I thought this was art? If ever a subject has the need of freedom of expression it’s art. What are you censoring – not nudity but hand gestures? If this was not terribly sad it would be utterly laughable.
Which of the gestures were deemed so offensive that ‘friends, family, future employers and the public’ would be unable to cope? I have some relatives over eighty who might be deemed prudish by modern standards but not one who would be offended by a gesture in an exhibited piece of art. It’s art. They would feel this about some of the highly controversial exhibits in the past – even if disgusted and appalled they would still wish the exhibit to go ahead. And this is what is laughable. I find Bibo Keeley’s images provocative conceptually – Female nipples, the masks, the gestures – but it’s hardly pornographic or debasing – it’s actually quite refreshing. It’s clearly a well thought through piece of Art.
I could say more on this – there seem to be a number of contradictory and confused statements by the College – this is the bit that is not laughable. It’s actually very troubling.
I can’t see how this artwork could cause offence, especially given the message it puts across. This sort of censorship infringes the freedom that artists should have to express themselves.
Another beaut of an article Susannah – it’ll take me a while to stop chuckling at some of your writing – only thing I would take issue with is your describing Neil Young as ‘obscure’.
ah that’s the satire. I love Neil Young. He might not have a tv programme or a golf course, but he’s got something else. Values, talent, and credibility
Hello John – usually when writing one sentence, you include the subject, not just a pronoun like ‘it’ so people understand what the subject of your sentence is. When you say ‘it’s a bit rubbish’ – I can only conclude you mean the college’s contradictory statements, or the decision to ban any artwork. If you mean the artwork is rubbish – well that’s a very harsh opinion to offer, and you offer no reason as to why. As someone with a BA and a MA (both honours) in Fine Art, I am sure you can’t mean the artwork is rubbish. The technical execution of the photographs is faultless, the composition of the photographs on the page is full of movement and interesting shapes (and negative shape). The bird’s head to anonymize the women is artful and is a strong part of the messages that the artist is powerfully putting across. If you have some specific comments to make as to whatever it is you think is rubbish, let’s have them.
You can dress it up all you like suzanne but at the end of the day one’s opinion of what is good art and what is not is a very (indeed, one of the most) personal thing. I just happen to think it’s not much good, and didn’t warrant the publicity it received. That’s my opinion, you may have a different one. Surely you’re not trying to belittle my opinion just because you happen to think it has merit?
so – thank you for clarifying that it is the artwork that you say is ‘rubbish’ – not the censorship or the college’s behaviour. It’s a bit of a shift to move from rubbishing someone’s art to saying taste in art is subjective as you are doing. Perhaps you could have done a more kind thing, and commented ‘I don’t like this art’ or ‘I don’t think this is good art because….’ You sill give no reasons for rubbishing this woman’s artwork. No one is dressing anything up. Art is personal taste, but there are also means by which to talk about art – what do you think of the colours, composition, techniques, subject matter, message, etc. You are correct – I am not trying to belittle your opinion – now that I know it is not the censorship but the art that you declare to be ‘rubbish’ I just wish to understand why you decided to be so harsh and cruel, and what your criterion was for calling it ‘rubbish’. Your opinion will be most welcome by me if accompanied by some kind of reasonable critique – how much sympathy do you expect after rubbishing someone’s work without being able to justify what’s rubbish about it? I’ve given reasons why this work has merit for me. Awaiting patiently your reasoned, logical explanation of your opinion.
“This is the first time the main directors of the company have travelled to Crovie as they rarely leave their main base at Fishtown of Usan near Montrose.”
Hunt saboteurs don’t hang around people’s houses. They monitor people when they are hunting and have you ever thought why they wear a balaclava? If hunt saboteurs were unmasked the hunt support put dead animals outside their houses, slash their tyres put bricks through their window and I’m speaking of things I’ve seen. The fb pages were they unmask sabs and find out every detail about you. Yes people in balaclava’s are scary but what would you do if the police aren’t on your side and you have no other protection. They were asked to go to gardens town due to the fact other animal activists who where there, were being intimidated and threatened by usan. You see usan don’t say anything to the men they wait and only shout things at the girls I wasn’t allowed to walk around gardens town on my own in case usan hurt me. Hunt sabs were needed for every animal activists protection. If you don’t want them there tell usan to stop their threatening behaviour
i don’t see any part of this article saying what trump did for education. “Trump University” sounds too good to be true, yes a university to educate young students on how to make it big.
Paul well spotted! Thank you! How could I have forgotten the illegal university? Isn’t it amazing how you can run a fraudulent / illegal business in the USA, but be welcome in Scotland with open arms?
The only people to welcome trump with open arms are those who will make money out of him. And i’m sure there will be alot of people hoping to make some money out of his developments, even some local companies. I for one would boycott local companies that have dealings with trump.
Good point. It may be the case that many of the security and construction workers on site are not local; but there is a bread making business that may be a supplier, and BrewDog showed up and sold beer at the Trump open day. I think it’s important to try and educate the businesses. We’ll see which ones continue. If you want to boycott the biggest local business that has done all it can to support Trump and done all it could have done to insult, discredit and/or ignore the facts and the people who stand up to Trump, I suggest stop buying the Press & Journal and the Evening Express – neither one of which has yet to acknowledge in print (to the best of my knowledge) that Trump’s VP Sarah Malone is the wife of Aberdeen Journal’s supremo Damian Bates.
And as if things couldn’t get any worse, they do. Trump just says all the wrong stuff.
Univision is dropping its partnership with the Miss Universe Organization over part-owner Donald Trump’s “insulting remarks” about Mexican immigrants made during his presidential campaign announcement earlier this month.
I realize that they live in a remote area, and that there isn’t much that grows there. It is a local hunt, and the food is distributed for free among the Faroese people. It’s sustainable- even the IUCN has said so. Less than 1% of the estimated local population (100,000) is hunted each year (annual average catch is 850-950). The way the Faroese hunt these cetaceans isn’t putting them at risk of extinction. They wait for the whales to come to them, not actively seek out whales. If fewer whales come to them, the less they hunt. They could eat foods from faraway lands and add to the pollution and decrease of other, more endangered species, but chose to eat local.
As long as “civilized” nations continue to eat squid/octopus, pig, and kill crows, I see nothing wrong with eating pilot whales. Whole shoals of squids are fished up, perhaps they are losing culture. Murders of crows are well… murdered, maybe there is a lost tradition of tool usage there. Pigs are tortured for their meat, yet “civilized” people call the Faroese inhumane?
Who’s to say that other animals are intelligent? Maybe a cow is intelligent. Do I think people will test this? No, because beef is a staple for most people. People only want to believe convenient things. Believing cetaceans are intelligent is convenient to the western world, because most western people do not eat cetaceans. It’s also convenient to protest the hunting of cetaceans, because cetacean hunters are in the minority. Pork eaters, crow shooters and calamari enjoyers are in the majority.
The ignorance of current news this poster displays is staggering, as is the lack of empathy with living creatures and their capacity for thought and feeling – long since documented. I think the poster will find that the cetaceans (highly intelligent, social, family-orientated mammals) are specifically driven to the knife-wielding crowds. It is not sustainable; it is barbarism, and as all the footage shows, the perpetrators revel in the blood orgy. I personally feel no animal should be in the food chain; but many that go in are pre-stunned; I do not know pigs are tortured as a matter of course for meat. The well-documented Faroese torture of the cetaceans they kill after chasing them to their shores is long, prolonged, and wholly unnecessary. ‘Who’s to say that other animals are intelligent?’ – plenty of scientists, researchers and campaigners. Rarely have I seen such illogic in a single post; I think this is a new benchmark. Mr Shea does seem to like to court controversy, perhaps giving him any attention at all is wrong. But I do wonder what motivates people to write things they know are easily disproved, and to make sweeping generalisations and analogies that serve only to discredit their own capacity for logic
The ignorance of current news this poster displays is staggering I’ve taken a great interest since The Discovery Channel’s “Whale Wars: Viking Shores” Sea Shepherd attempted to engage in a confrontation with the locals and that too never happened. The shot secret video and tried to antagonize locals and police.
Sustainable: Conserving an ecological balance by avoiding depletion of natural resources.
Figures taken from North Atlantic Marine Mammal Commission
Population estimate 440,000 – 1,370,000
“An indication of long term historical trends in the abundance of pilot whales around the Faroe Islands can be gained from analysis of catch data. Catch records from the Faroes go as far back as 1584, and are unbroken since 1709 (Bloch 1994). Catch, corrected for hunting effort, shows a cyclic pattern with a period of 100-120 years, with peaks in catch occurring in 1720-1730, 1840-1850, and 1935-1985(Hoydal and Lastein 1993). There is no long-term indication of declining or increasing abundance over the period (Bloch and Lastein 1995). The local availability of pilot whales to the Faroese may be related to changes in sea temperature and the abundance of their favored prey (Hoydal and Lastein1993).”
The kill at the end is as quick and clean as any animal being slaughtered. The Faroese don’t actively hunt whales out with close waters they wait until the whales come close to certain beaches, in fact so years some islands don’t catch any whales as the don’t come close enough.
The reason and motivation behind it is simply to gather food. No fun, sport, rite of manhood or anything else. There is little to no agriculture or suitable land to raise cattle so the Faroese have always relied on the surrounding sea as a source of fish, seabirds, and the pilot whales If the slaughter and consumption of pilot whales is ethically on the same level as slaughter and consumption of beef or poultry, then the former is clearly to be preferred to the latter, since there is no environmental pollution created in the “harvesting” of pilot whales. If Faroese people were to eat, say, chicken wings or lasagnas instead of pilot whale, the meaty ingredients would have to be imported from abroad, which would contaminate the environment. In fact, it’s probably better to compare the grind to the hunting of local game in other countries, since there are farms, antibiotics, relatively cramped quarters and so on involved in the production of beef, poultry, pork, etc.
You may well believe that no animal should be in the food chain, but the vast majority of the population disagree and have done for millennia. I like to know where my meat comes from and actively research how it’s been reared and how it’s been dispatched. I guess that comes from one side of my family being farmers and the other side fishermen
Mr Shea does seem to like to court controversy, no I just have a very different view to life than you do, unlike my views are consistent you judge salmon net fishers yet support one against Tump, you frequently advertise Brew Dog but do not condemn they’re partnership with Trump.
On the 18th of July just under ½ population of the world will sit down and feast of meat killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe. Animals must be alive and healthy at the time of slaughter and all blood is drained from the carcass, not one activist, vegan, vegetarian, or attention seeking celebrity will condemn this why?
For anyone interested, Jim quotes from “North Atlantic Marine Mammal Commission” – which is a pro-whaling organisation. There are many papers on its website, which talk about harvesting (ie hunting and killing) marine mammals. The website has a nice euphamism for the animals which are chased by ships, injured by harpoons but which manage to escape; they call this ‘struck and lost’. At least they admit that pilot whales are very social animals – the acknowledgement that the animals are intelligent, live in ordered societal groups is welcome. The members of this outfit include Faroese representation you will not be surprised to learn.
Jim says the Faroese grind is simply to catch food, and that ‘No fun, sport, rite of manhood or anything else’. Perhaps he’s not seen the photographs of the blood soaked children sitting on the animals as they slowly die (they are driven ashore, exhausted, suffering and suffocating, they are hacked to pieces) and there is indeed a blood orgy which the Faroese claim is their cultural right. It is this culture that is one of the mainstays of their pro hunting argument, which is to be found all over the news. Perhaps there is nothing abhorrent in this to Jim; perhaps he takes his family members young and old to slaughterhouses to sit on animals about to be killed.
Jim doesn’t seem to acknowledge that a vegetarian lifestyle is the choice of a huge number of the world’s population; I don’t know why he thinks that not one ‘activist, vegan, vegetarian or attention-seeking celebrity will condemn’ live slaughter. Again, the fact that people who care about live slaughter is demonstrated all over the news and social media.
As to BrewDog, again, they sold beer at Trump’s open day; I immediately wrote to them, wrote a piece elsewhere in AV explaining why not to do business with the man. If you find that piece, you’ll see a comment from me about who should really be censured over its support for Trump: Aberdeen Journals Ltd, which to this day print pro Trump pieces, have poured scorn on Trump detractors, and have not yet once as far as I’m aware told its readership of the blatant conflict of interest it has: AJL’s Damian Bates is married to Trump’s VP Sarah Malone. But this is a digression.
Let’s for a minute assume (wrongly) that whales are abundant, that they are not dying in little-understood mass strandings, that their habitat is safe, and that our navy is not blowing them up. For some of us it is ethically and morally unjustifiable to kill wild animals (often after long, grueling, exhausting chases) – be it the fox, the baby seal, the seal or the whale.
Finally, whaling is not allowed in EU member countries. Denmark’s ridiculous protection of the Faroes (it still impounds a Sea Shepherd vessel) is at odds with law. On the subject of law, the Faroe Islands have enacted a new pro-whaling law which means anyone has to report any sitings of whales from something like two nautical miles offshore. This is a far cry from saying the whales happily come close to the islands, they are driven there.
All I can say to close is that all whaling is morally indefensible, and more power to Sea Shepherd.
I too have often pondered why animal rights activists never complain about Halal killing methods, it’s cruel and barbaric, it’s also being done these days on an industrial scale. It should be outlawed in this Country.
As for whales, just big fish really and I love a fish supper, if the Faroese people want to eat them more power to them, my biggest concern is the cost to the environment of these Sea shepherd boats, they’re also very unsafe and endanger other boats, they too should be outlawed, the reckless manner they posed when dealing with Japan’s whale research boats could have cost human life.
Interesting that Brewdog supply Trump, hahaha, that’s a bloody nose for a certain someone.
I’m a little perturbed that the author here resorted to personal abuse of a poster who offered up a differing viewpoint to the writer, the header here quite clearly states “Aberdeen Voice accepts and welcomes contributions from all sides/angles pertaining to any issue”, if that is indeed the case why the abuse??
If I dared call anyone ignorant it would never be posted, the double standards are astounding, the author and her friends have free reign but don’t allow anyone who oppose their view the same rights.
As someone who had their facebook page poured over and stuff from it used to attack me I now don’t post using my real name, surely in the interests of free speech and common decency people should be allowed to post viewpoints without being attacked.
Aberdeen Voice, you’re having a laugh, you’re not the voice of me that’s for sure and I am born and bred here unlike the author.
For those not familiar with the ‘Old Susannah’ satirical column I write, Bill is our most prolific heckler.
Perhaps he can spell out what ‘abuse’ is taking place here? As to using the word ‘ignorant’ as a description of someone who claims the Faroese don’t revel in the gory, violent death of the whales they herd ashore and hack up, it is a completely justified description. There are mountains of footage, photographs and eyewitness accounts of how the people involved not only revel in the bloodbath, but they take their children down as well, perching them, cheering and shouting atop the dead and dying whales.
I am still not sure who Bill is; so I don’t know what he’s talking about with regard to his Facebook page. But here’s a hint: a Facebook page is visible to the world at large depending on the settings you use, so if there are things on your page you could be ‘attacked’ over, perhaps it’s best not to publicise them.
Free speech comes with responsibilities, and opinions that are expressed which are devoid of any fact, such as saying the Faroese must kill whales, that they don’t enjoy it, and that whales are just big fish (? aren’t they teaching biology in school any longer?) are subject to being rebutted. Where someone displays ignorance, it is not a crime to call them ignorant and explain why. In fact, it would be curtailing my freedom of expression to stop me from doing so. I don’t know why you don’t think people including me are also campaigning against Halal slaughter; I am, many are. This was another reason I found the other poster’s remarks on the subject of celebrities to be worthy of of being called ignorant. But thank you Bill though; it’s always a pleasure and a good laugh having yet another one of your diatribes against me.
PS As to BrewDog selling beer at one Trump event, they have joined a host of local suppliers which have done so. See the Old Susannah column about Trump for my detailed thoughts. BrewDog have had an email from me about this. The real local supplier that is propping up Trump and villifying people is of course the Press & Journal.
PS. No, I wasn’t born in Scotland. But only someone with Xenophobia would think this worthy of mentioning. Perhaps Bill will explain why my birthplace is somehow relevant? Otherwise it just looks a bit like prejudice.
Clearly the actions of the Faroese constitute crimes against wildlife. This is, in my view, hardcore crime buried deep in some persistent (but hateful) cultural habits or beliefs. To them, and others,who commit these atrocities, it is a viable sport. They know what they are doing, they want to do it and they dont think people should stop them.
I was not going to reply to this thread anymore as obviously some people have such strong emotions that sensible reasoning/ debate would be pointless. I did and still do support Sea Shepherd in their fight against commercial whaling particularly the constant war with the Japanese in the Antarctic. However I would advise people to watch Whale Wars Viking Shores a program that massively back fired for Sea Shepard, and as such they have never filmed Whale wars in the Faros since.
People with no compassion for wildlife have no soul. The ignorance to think a whale is a fish or that the final kill is quick leaves me very sad for anyone deluded enough to believe this. Whales are very intelligent animals and feel pain in the same way we do. On-line papers such as The Aberdeen Voice has brought to light many forms of cruelty that should shame us as the human race.
What makes me sad Bert is someone who thinks they are righteous enough to comment on animal welfare, then buy a chicken from the supermarket for £2.99. What life do you think these chickens had so a profit can still be made at 2.99? Before you judge others look at your own eating habits.
We were born with incisors, meant for eating meat, one reason why we’re top of the food chain, to some eating whale is akin to us eating cattle and pigs, who are we too butt in on their way of life?
One responder here even owns a restaurant, it serves meat and fish on a huge scale, why not condemn her for having such an establishment? Why are these sustainable whales any different from hunting a killing a shoal of haddock?
Weird double standards.
IMO You case your opinions on how nice looking the animal is, be it deer, foxes. whales, no one cares about slugs being murdered in gardens every night on a huge scale or the fish of our seas. I love all animals but know I’m designed to be a meat eater so do, I’d eat any edible animal, that would include the likes of dog if I was in a Country where this practise was part of the culture.
The heading of this article is No Dialogue Possible in the Faroe Islands. It seems reasonable dialogue is not possible with people who when faced with the facts continue to support the unsupportable.
This link is for a new release from Sea Shepherd with a harrowing video. The torture and slow death of the animals, long acknowledged by experts as highly intelligent, social animals is well documented. http://www.seashepherdglobal.org/news-and-commentary/news/graphic-video-and-images-of-pilot-whale-slaughter-in-the-faroe-islands.html Here is a quote: “Ripping fetuses from the wombs of the mothers, mutilating the bodies, hacking out the teeth, having children play and and mutilate the bodies, carving numbers into their flesh, stabbing with knives, ripping their flesh with boat props, decapitating them, stressing the animals with bang poles and forcing these gentle intelligent social sentient beings to witness the slaughter of their family members around them in their own blood before they are slain is viciously barbaric and has no place in any civilized society.”
My goodness. I didn’t know that you owned a restaurant Suzanne. I dont,so must be you! But as I posted on AV FB page the ‘great apostle of the Philistines’ has certainly emerged from his box along with,it appears his side-kick.
Ah …. hello again Bill … you never did get back to me about that reading exercise (Comments Old Susannah #177) ….. Oh well, still time … if you didn’t see my comment, go have a look, and as you read, write down the first letter of each sentence ( hint … it will be a capital letter).
I completely understand that many folk will be horrified by the annual dolphin harvest but wonder if any self respecting local law enforcer would really pressure the annual influx of tourists to report the position of whales and dolphins.
Sea Shepherd has laudable goals however this “rampted-up” piece does them little credit.
Duncan, your doubts are something at odds with the facts; the newly-created laws are fairly clear – or perhaps you think they were written with no intent to be used. It is clear this new law is aimed at Sea Shepherd and other groups and individuals who want to protect animals from the slow and terrifying fate of being herded to shore to be killed in a gory bloodbath with people cheering. The law certainly implies that anyone who sees whales could be in legal trouble for not reporting same.
Yesterday the Faroese issued a press release which attempts to allay concerns tourists legitimately have. It is however far from reassuring: “The penalty of 2 years in prison may apply where the breach is intentional or due to gross negligence and has led to injury to people or whales, or damage to the environment or material property – or where there was immediate danger of such injury or damage. The penalty of 2 years in prison may also apply where the person in question has previously been convicted of breaching the Grindalógin. This statement has been updated on July 2nd 2015 Contact Páll Nolsøe, communication advisor, for more information: tel. +298 551028, palln@tinganes.fo”
It seems to be a law applying to everyone from tourist to people actively trying to stop the slaughter. Since health experts advise eating no more than 4kg of cetacean meat per year (or none if you are pregnant), there is absolutely no need to kill all the animals that are killed.
The press release is hardly reassuring and clarifications on several points have been requested. How do you prove or disprove a tourist was grosslly negligent? Will all tourists be issued with pamphlets with their new responsibilities spelled out? Would love to see one.
Finally, I don’t see anything in the article that is ‘ramped-up’ or a discredit to Sea Shepherd- so please do explain what you mean with specific examples.
I get it now; Bill’s apparently gone into the ‘PS’ part of this piece, read about WHEN my teenage boyfriend was hit by a car, and decided this was a recent event. Very witty Bill; I get it now
There are a number of positive reasons why I recommend Aberdeen Voice to so many of my friends and acquaintances, not least the informative,witty and thought – provoking satirical columns and convenient local alternative to the less than scintillating output offered by a local press generally considered to be more than a little influenced by friends and relatives in low places.
Sometimes, however, in moments of potential personal crises for close friends, when they may, for whatever reason, be suffering from flagging self esteem, intellectual self – doubt or indeed a general malaise characterised by a mistaken sense of inferiority, I humbly suggest Aberdeen Voice as an alternative to counselling, psychotherapy or serial sadistic fantasy featuring Donald Trump. The main reason for this is the often regular contributions from one particular correspondent who, by pretending to demonstrate an unimaginable and totally unrealistic level of inanity, imbecility and ignorance, usually goes a long way to convincing my friends that there is always someone worse off than themselves.
I could not possibly bring myself to try to identify the correspondent concerned, partly due to their understandable humility and desire for anonymity, but I really would like to thank him/her for their valuable work and for helping so many people.
Congratulations to Aberdeen Voice on five years of excellence and for long may it continue!
First para seems a bit misleading, Suzanne. The Conservatives decided to abandon their proposed amendment to the Hunting Act of 2004, partly because the 56 SNP MPs threatened to vote against it even though the Act applies only to England, separate legislation being in force in Scotland. The SNP took the view that the proposed England-only amendment might somehow affect Scotland, in some unspecified way, thereby establishing an interesting precedent, i.e., that England-only legislation is a legitimate matter of concern for Scottish MPs (SNP and other) at Westminster, even though Scotland-only legislation is the exclusive concern of MSPs at Holyrood.
Tally ho! Alex, thanks for picking up on a error now fixed: the SNP decided of course not to go along with the Conservatives, and now people who want their traditional right restored to have foxes ripped to shreds by dogs have been disappointed. It’s as if tradition was not as important as the humane treatment of animals.
I have just stumbled on this article. Members of the Rural were not consulted regarding these changes and you will find that since the article was published there has been a huge backlash from members.
Really pleased “A Dangerous Game” will be shown on the BBC. Friends in the US who are no fans of The Donald were horrified but not surprised by what they saw in “You’ve Been Trumped”.
I’d love someone to tell me that I am not imagining that Peglar’s Corner was an alternative meeting place to the monkey house for dating couples in the mid to late 50s. I may be aul, but I’m nae feel !!
I have been following this issue with great interest as I and four colleagues were sued for £20 million by a golf estate developer who pushed through his development in a rural area next to a nature conservancy in South Africa some years ago. He lost the case. Afterwards I saw a programme on the Menie golf course and contacted Mr Ford, who sent me a brilliant summary of the mess created by Trump. Hats off to all of you who held fast.
Thanks for your reply. I see manners are not lost on you lol. Out of all the industry you mention how many are still providing employment? Apart from the university and the hospital which every city has.
I think you have clearly missed the point. I’m not slagging off Aberdeen I’m merely pointing out that the tourism industry here could do a lot better. I’ve chosen to live here as I love Scotland and would like to see the city improve and provide jobs for our younger generation.
We can have highland games without horses. We don’t need to use animals to entertain us or to pull carts any longer. Is this really necessary? Being around loud noise is of no benefit to any animal, and some find the loudness painful; some are frightened and stressed. Many people are trying to ban the unnecessary use of animals for our amusement and entertainment in circuses and film. I’d put this on the list as well.
agree with you – but must go much further. We must treat people seeking asylum here with more compassion and dignity, there are people living in detention centres here who need help now. And if any politicians really wanted to attack the problem at the roots, can we please stop arming despots? http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/17/uk-sells-arms-to-worlds-w_n_3608760.html
Who cares what fluff Alex Salmond has to say about this service, why not post an actual link so we can actually check it out..? Lazy and not very useful article
I take your point re the link Martin, an oversight on my part, but have to report that it took me less than 30 seconds, using keywords ‘Ofcom’, ‘mobile’ and ‘coverage’ to find the link. So for all those who have less than 30 seconds to spare, or has difficulty searching, here is the URL …. I will add it to the article.
My family and I attended the games again this year and had a fantastic time as always. Thank you.
On the way home to Alford we came across a beret/ToS in the road and picked it up.
It’s dark blue/black with a red bobble’ on top and has a silver cap badge showing a Stag emblem and the motto ‘Si Je Peux’ – A long shot I know but, ”if we can”, we should reunite it with its owner – Any ideas?
There’s a word for this sort of thing. It’s about time the owners at Northfield open up the OED under “H” and read the meaning of the word “hypocrisy”. NO decent animal sanctuary would ever condone breeding, let alone breeding animals for sale that are going to be fattened for slaughter. Whether they are selling the animals directly to be slaughtered or sold to others before being slaughtered makes no difference. They must know what is going to happen so the blood is ultimately on their hands.
Excellent piece as ever Suzanne. Sometimes the script from Steve Shaw reads like something out of Little Britain – “Ah but, no but, ah……….” while trying to avoid giving a less than straight answer.
I think the important thing that seems to be getting forgotten here is the 6 ponies which are in need of rescue. Since an offer to cover all the costs involved to collect, passport, deal with all veterinary, dental and farrier problems transport them to a specialist Equine rescue centre willing to offer them a safe and friendly environment for the rest of their lives was turned down on the 13th of August, these ponies, we are assured, are safe but waiting for Northfield to raise several thousand pounds to proceed. There have been no further updates on their condition, no photos, no word of any kind on their present housing. I personally have to voice my concerns over the situation. This is not the way animal welfare should work.
Keith Marley, Director, The New Arc
Hi, I am interested in doing the volunteer training with yourselves. Please can you tell me whether it is every weekend, for 10 weeks? Is it all day on a Saturday and Sunday please? If not, how many hours each day please? Also, I live just outside Ellon, so would I be able to give people help in my area at the end of it please? How many hours a week would I be expected to volunteer for after the training? Could it be an evening? Please advise. Thanks.
Hi Penny
Please feel free to send me an e mail at acis.manager@mhaberdeen.org.uk
I think you would find the Open Evening very helpful to attend as many of these questions would be answered there.
Kind Regards
Christine
We had the chance to alter all this at the Independence referendum last year but we blew it big style. All this revenue could have been thwarted away from Westminster and put in Aberdeen/Scotland’s coffers but the NO voters let us all down on governing ourselves in my opinion. (moderated)
You should count yourself lucky we voted No. Look at the price of oil now. An ‘independent’ Scotland, basing its entire economy (as it was) on oil would be bankrupt. Greece is in a better state than an oil-dependent, ‘independent’ Scotland would be. (moderated)
When did Scotland base it’s entire economy on oil? I think you will find that was only the media who was saying that.
There are a lot more that Scotland has to offer than oil, but the point Les was getting at was if we were ruling ourselves, we could have set up the oil fund in the first place. The price of oil will go back up once the Saudi’s and Americans have stopped pricking around with the prices and Russia.
The Shetlands, Orkney and Isle of Man can all negotiate better terms because they are the only ports/land mass around that area. If Aberdeen had tried to do the same, the Oil industry would have likely gone somewhere else (Dundee, Peterhead, Cromarty), not a great comparison.
a good job independence didn’t go through! The oil revenues for Scotland are £7bn down this year already, and now rising unemployment due to shut downs offshore and onshore. I live in Aberdeen and know 8 of my neighbours well – 6 of them are either laid off or about to be laid off. There’s a crisis here but no-one cares
Your absolutely spot on with your last part Rah, too many friends and family are losing their jobs and who is doing anything about it. Firstly yes I am pro-independence but that’s not the point, the point is as highlighted again the North sea has generated over £300 Bn for the UK Government, now the industry and Aberdeen has managed to sustain it’s self due to the oil, but now we need help and we don’t have the oil to help the city or jobs the UK Government have left us high and dry.
I know Scotland would need to borrow to make up the short fall, but hey guess what so do the UK currently, the main focus should be on the future. The Scottish Government are doing all they can currently to help the situation only the UK can put more money in or even better change the Taxation in the short term for the oil companies.
The main thing for me all of this highlights is regardless of which government the oil money has been quandered, with nothing saved for situations like this. If this was our personal finances we would only have our self to blame, so why should the UK Government be any different. I am more convinced than ever that Scotland future and the future of our resources would be far better in the hands of Scotland and the people of Scotland.
a good job independence didn’t go through! The oil revenues for Scotland are £7bn down this year already, and now rising unemployment due to shut downs offshore and onshore. I live in Aberdeen and know 8 of my neighbours well – 6 of them are either laid off or about to be laid off. There’s a crisis here but no-one cares
Scotland is Central Belt Centric and always will be as that is where the majority of voters live. As a consequence Aberdeen has frequently received a much smaller share of the Block Grant than many other authorities.
The exception is the SNP dominated Dundee City Council where vast sums are being spent on large infrastructure projects.
However the above situation has, in my view been compounded by the tribal politics within Aberdeen Council and disastrous planning decisions, aka Union Square Development which has almost paralysed Harbour traffic and revenues. Look to the growth of Montrose and Peterhead Harbours for comparison.
We must also realise the current oil price is driven partly by global politics and ageing, inefficient North Production facilities. So let’s stop whinging about what might of been and get behind lowering production costs, or stay we are and lose everything.
Minor point of correction/clarification: “When the Scottish government turned up in the 90s, nothing much changed.”
Readers will know that the Scottish Parliament did not reconvene until 1997, at which time the ruling Labour/Liberal coalition was not styled as the Scottish Government but the Scottish Executive.
After victory in 2007 the SNP ruling minority renamed themselves the Scottish Government but this name was not recognised in law until 2012.
hi this is something i would be really interested in, i am already a volunteer for the companions scheme and would like to learn more, but i work offshore on a 2 on 2 off rota is this impossible?
Hi Vikki
If you are able to attend the Open Evening at ACIS I think you would find it very useful.
A shift pattern does make things more difficult in terms of attendance but it depends if your time off fits in with our training weekends.
Please e mail me at acis.manager@mhaberdeen.org.uk if you need further advice. Thanks for your interest.
Kind Regards
Christine
To the Aberdeen Voice and Suzanne Kelly Reporter for the Aberdeen Voice In response to your article published about our Northfield Animal Haven and myself Kelly Cable.
I find your article very opinionated as to your own personal beliefs of being a vegan, i.e. a non-meat eater and your presumptions are a bit ignorant from fact.
Suzanne Kelly you have never met me, have never been to my premises and have never seen the animals in my care. When you and Wendy Valentine first contacted me was back in March of this year when it was on my page about my own personal not rescue sheep were given birth, this is where the vendetta comes in, nothing to do with the formation of a group called REACH. We raise sheep on the farm which we sell later on in the year, we maybe have 20 out of the 4 million born in Scotland every year, the way we raise our sheep is giving them the best care they need, they also have freedom, now at that time of year when there are lambs here our supporters come along and feed the lambs, meet the sheep and learn about caring for animals in the right way. WE HAVE NEVER AND NEVER WOULD BREED FROM A RESCUE ANIMAL. You have stated that a certain picture containing a lamb and chickens, that these animals were destined for barbecue, where do you get this from, the lamb in the picture is an orphan lamb called cutie that we bought she is still here, the chickens in the picture are either still here or have been rehomed, again which we have already told you, our chickens and ducks are sold to people with their own flocks not for the barbecue as you put it.
With regards to your statement about other charities offering a home for the Shetland Ponies and your presumptions as to why I am not a registered Charity but a registered Non Profit Organisation.
Yes an offer was made by Hillside who are NOT a registered charity and Blaikewell who have recently became a registered charity to take these ponies, but Northfield Animal Haven was asked to help after larger charities were contacted, now the person who asked for our help has been a supporter of ours since day one, 3 years ago and knows our constitution and how our rehoming works, not only that how can you state that these sanctuaries are doing it for free, do they not have to pay for horse passports or vets so what will they do, they will fundraise exactly the same as I am doing, now this brings me to your presumption that I have something to hide with being a non profit and not a charity, the same rules and laws apply to a non profit as it does to a charity, so do a bit more research on how a non profit organisation works. When you do a go fund me page it tells you to double your target that is needed, which I have done I have also listed what needs to be done when the ponies arrive, I have also stated that donations can be made direct to the vet, so your presumption that we are in this for financial gain is wrong. Your next presumption was that if I didn’t raise the money then it would be too bad for the ponies, which is a pretty nasty presumption to make and couldn’t be further from the truth.
When you first contacted me I was fundraising then for help to save Shetland Ponies, which are here, even though the target was never reached we still took them in. Now between March and now we have taken in many animals that we haven’t held fundraisers for and you have said nothing, now we start a new fundraiser to help more Shetland ponies and you start with your attacks again. So I assume that all our good work and what we have done in the past 3 years means nothing to you nor does the animals that we still have in our care, you know the rescues, the horses the pigs the rabbits. The whole article stinks of “yellow” journalism, which is what closed the News of The World down, In my opinion this is what should happen to yourselves because of the way you are portraying my sanctuary and myself.
[ Please note. Although the above would normally be subject to moderation on account that it in part breaches our publication criteria, it has been decided that it be published in it’s entirity, unaltered, as it has already been published elsewhere online, exactly as above, therefore moderation would be a futile excercise. – Moderator ]
I find the idea of running a business selling animals on for slaughter alongside an animal rescue(which aims to save animals from those very situations she is putting her own livestock in) a baffling contradiction of morals and highly inethical. Not only this, but to use profits from animals sold on for slaughter to fund an animal rescue?
Whether or not she sells them directly for slaughter does not excuse her; she is fully aware of where those animals will eventually end up(and I very much doubt it will be with a kind hearted shepherd who out of the goodness of his heart decided to buy up flocks of sheep and keep them on to frolick blissfully to the end of their days!).
Now there is no particular issue with a farmer running a sheep farm alone. But you cannot run both at the same time. The purpose of each of these operations are completely opposite and couldn’t be more conflicting.
As to the comment about Hillside having some sort of ‘vendetta’ against Northfield..perhaps they also strongly disagree with Northfields contradicting ethics. However to refuse help which could potentially save the lives of the ponies they claim to care about seems rather petty and self serving indeed. It seems to be saying ‘If we can’t have them, then no one can’.
Running a rescue is an admirable thing to do and I applaud anyone who takes on such a worthwhile enterprise, but in this case this person is going about it in entirely the wrong way – and whats worse, she just doesn’t seem to see it. I think she really needs to sit down and think about where her priorities lie.
Hi Kelly, as a confirmed carnivore, I felt it incumbent upon me to give a ‘non vegan’ response to your entertaining post. Just like Suzanne, I have never met you, but then again I never met Mother Theresa….but I have a fairly good idea of what she was all about! I really don’t see why you think it important to emphasise how many sheep are bred for meat every year? I feel you are trying to muddy the waters. The point that has been raised is that you seem to be openly proud of the fact that you fund your animal rescue centre by breeding and selling other animals. Duh! Don’t you get it? Conflict of interests?
At least you confirm that your chickens and ducks are ‘sold’ to people. (our chickens and ducks are sold to people with their own flocks not for the barbecue as you put it.) although the fact is that if you ‘sell’ any livestock you relinquish any rights as to its further use…..Hmm, That will be a bit like the lambs or highland cows you raise that you don’t slaughter…you just sell them to people who ‘might’?. WOW! This is the sort of justification that people use when they sell their kids! ‘How were we to know they would end up as sex slaves’. Sorry, but thats a complete and utter ‘OPT OUT’. Yet again, another attempt to muddy the waters. You breed, you raise, you sell for profit…end of! You don’t get to choose when the animals concerned are auctioned at a meat market!
You seem to have had a problem in the past with Hillside who you emphasise ‘are NOT a registered charity’ but your only excuse for refusing Blaikieswells is that they have only recently become a registered charity? This seems a bit contradictory? You seem to be making a point that Hillside is not a registered charity….just like yourself? and yet you ignore Blaikieswells who ARE a registered charity, but according to you have ‘only recently became a registered charity’. You need to check your facts there chuck because they have been a registered charity for about 20 years!
A wee bit of a change of story regarding your comments about what you refer to as ‘other’ charities made me laugh. They are not ‘other’ charities! They are charities…you are NOT! You originally posted that ‘All other charities refused to help’ but you have now changed it to ‘Northfield Animal Haven was asked to help after larger charities were contacted’. Yet your next comment states ‘the person who asked for our help has been a supporter of ours since day one, 3 years ago and knows our constitution and how our rehoming works’ How does that work then? Perhaps you should post your ‘constitution’ on line so we can all see it?
You go on to say ‘not only that how can you state that these sanctuaries are doing it for free, do they not have to pay for horse passports or vets so what will they do, they will fundraise exactly the same as I am doing’. FFS! They offered to rescue the ponies, take them in and offer them lifelong care because they had the facilities and funding in place to do so immediately! Of course they had to pay for vets and passports etc. Nothing is for ‘free’ except the claim you make on twitter that your own care and love is for free…
I am sure there may be a few questions about your claims that ‘being a non profit and not a charity’ that has the same rules and laws applied as if you were a charity’ may well elicit a response from those concerned, so I will hold back on commenting on what I consider an amazing and outright misleading claim!
The rest of your post quite frankly is just blah followed by more blah. Muddy waters and more attempts to divert attention from the initial concerns voiced in this article followed by your comparison to ‘The News of the World’ .. AV …Is this a compliment or slander? lol
FYI most rescues that refer to themselves as sanctuaries offer homes for life. Your ‘sanctuary’ seems to be a contradiction itself because it is based round rehoming animals?
Then again your comments are full of contradictions from what I have read on your own facebook pages….That is if you haven’t already removed the posts which you don’t like which you have been quick to do so of late.
Oh and just out of curiosity, why is that you have now covered up the SSPCA logo on the bottom right of your farm sign? Is this an accident or perhaps you were told to remove it because you have no right to claim any connection with them. Perhaps you could explain?
I think you should get all the facts before posting this!. Half of the things ive read here are wrong and missinformation. Your speaking about a previous partner you know nothing about and the dates are wrong also!. It seems you are set out to destory someone who has saved hundreds of animals. No one that wrote these articles has came and seen the farm dont you think you should come and look around?. And putting her full address on it wrong it is compromising her saftey!.
Aberdeen Voice has documentation for the article. If you would care to explain what you believe is wrong that would be helpful. You may want to do an internet search on Northfield; you would find the address is widely publicised. If anyone is concerned about safety they should contact the police, although it is hard to see where the perceived danger is.
Well the 2009 date is wrong to start with!. Im her daughter believe me i know all the facts of this and you sadly do not. I would like to know what documentaion you have and how you recieved this?. This is a vendetta nothing more. Youve not once came to the farm or acknowledged the fact of how many animals my mum has saved, she does a brilliant job and i couldnt be prouder!!
I have seen a ‘determination of trustees remuneration’ which has the date of 2009 on it; it covers a period in 2008. I will be happy to change to precise bankruptcy dates when you supply with backup documentation if this is of crucial importance to you. Is that the most important thing you have come away with from the article?
As to asking how I received the documentation (a large and growing collection), I think you will find that writers keep their sources confidential. I can tell you though that there are now so many people with serious concerns about past financial issues that I’m being called to a meeting with them.
I have some questions for you. Why did your mother try to claim her signature on a loan document was not her signature? Was that an honest thing to do? Would you expect that kind of behaviour from someone seeking donations? Do you accept that some people have been misled into donating to you because they believed you were saving farm animals not sending them to market from reading your sign and your web appeals? Do you understand why people have ethical concerns about breeding for sale animals which will undoubtedly end up in the food chain and using their lives to pay for rescuing other animals? Why should some animals be saved and other animal should be sold – what do you do to determine which animals deserve sale? Would you personally donate money to someone who operates like this, when they also have past form for trying to get out of a loan agreement? Why did your mother try to deny getting this sizeable loan (in part from pensioners) – a loan which has not been returned? And one more question for now – has anyone connected with your operations been involved in any financial scandal or fraud in the past? I look forward to the answers.
I have never made any assertion about how animals are treated by the way. If I’ve stopped any further people from being mislead about what your operation is like, then I couldn’t be prouder.
quite a lot of news on this now; Sea Shepherd have photos. Doubtless it will make the news shortly, but photos and a statement can be found here https://www.facebook.com/SeaShepherdUK
Neither myself nor my daughter will be answering your stupid questions and as for providing you with documentation think you would have more chance of winnng the lottery than that happening, I dont care what you think you have in documentation ways but I know for a fact I wasnt made bankrupt in 2009 and as for what went on in a previous personal relationship 15 years certainly has nothing to do with you
I remain happy to clarify the actual date if you supply factual information, and I remain confident of the contents of the document I have. The date is not of importance to the bigger picture: the facts are that you have supplied conflicting statements about your operations, people have approached me to say they felt misled by your initial claims to rescue ‘all farm animals’ which you later changed. How you historically treated money, and the attempted deception to renege on a loan (never repaid as far as I am told) is extremely relevant. Clarifying that your rescue is funded by sales of animals you have deemed not worthy of rescue, and your past attempt at deception for the would-be donor is definitely in the public’s interest.
I did forget one question that people are asking: Who is the owner of these Shetlands, and did they really prefer not to let the animals be rescued by other organisations and insist that only you should have them? I can’t think of any similar case anywhere, ever, and I would love to hear from them.
Hello there Dave. The story is by me, Suzanne Kelly. I’m right here. Jenny supplied information for the story, and the police have since confirmed that they were supplied the information – and are investigating. There is this thing the press need to do – keep their sources confidential. It’s a pretty well-known principle. I’d like to know by return who you are? Do you have any connection with fishing/netting/farming? But I don’t expect a reply.
Interesting that Police Scotland could be bothered confiscating a Greenpeace rib which was involved in the protest against the horrific Faroese grind but do not seem to be bothered about taking action on a possible 34 wildlife crimes in our own country.
Hello John, Aberdeen Voice did ask the police why there was nothing being done about the 34 reports. This is their response:
A Police Scotland spokeswoman said,
“Police Scotland can confirm that information has been received in relation to concerns regarding salmon netting in the Montrose area and enquiries into the matter are ongoing. Police Scotland is committed to the investigation of wildlife crime and reports of criminality are taken very seriously. Wildlife crime is any act that is made illegal in Scotland under legislation with regard to certain birds, animals, aquatic life and plants including their habitats, both on land and in water. Such crimes cause significant harm to the species targeted by the criminals, as well as the communities who rely on wildlife for employment and tourism.
“All reports of wildlife crime will be investigated by Police Scotland and appropriate action will be taken. Extensive investigations into these matters can often be challenging and complex, requiring a multi-agency approach, with input and assistance from specialists within partner agencies, including the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service.
“Our aim is to reduce wildlife crime and we ask the public to report any concerns or suspicious activity to Police Scotland on 101. In an emergency contact 999.
Thanks for the clarification Suzanne. If Police Scotland are indeed continuing to investigate the 34 incidents in question then I apologise to them for my earlier comment. I look forward to hearing of proceedings commencing regarding these incidents.
no need to apologise; it had not been widely known as far as I can tell that these investigations were going on. I also look forward to hearing of positive action in the near future on these incidents.
have many in the UK forgotten is has been them who pushed forward the European Convention of Human Rights, based at Strasbourg, after WW II ? It has been Brits wanting Human Rights al over Europe!! I find it outrageous a UK PM wanting to re-negotiate EU bonds and values…..opting-out at any problem is NO EU value…obviously he does NOT care….and ot be clear: Scots obviously show UK what to to do …again!
Having read and previously commented on this article and looked over the past comments on both the Northfield havens face-book pages and the AV posts, it appears that there is a bigger story within the story and seemingly some background with the reporter concerned. A can of worms within a can of worms! I am looking forward to hearing more of this. Somebody should contact Jeremy Kyle!
Situations like this seem to fall into 3 distinct categories –
Response no 1 – All accusations are denied, counter accusations are made and the threat of legal reprisals are voiced.(but not acted upon)
Response no 2 – The accusations are answered and the ‘accuser’ is shown up to be a ‘vile piece of shit’ who will feel the full response of both the public and the legal system.
Response 3 – The people who are accused can not answer the questions and admit al or are ‘outed’ as fakes!
As a result, I have looked back over the past statements by both parties and have these questions to ask?
Suzanne Kelly – You claim to have documentary ‘back up’ to your claims? Do you have actual copies of the paperwork or is this verbal / second hand information?
It has been claimed that you have a vegan/ veggie agenda? Is that true?
It has been claimed that you are an ‘alcoholic’. Is this true?
There seems to be some confusion over the dates you have quoted? Why?
Northfield animal have been asked a number of questions which to date have also been unanswered, so I will put forward some questions to them.
It is almost a month since you launched your appeal to save these ponies from being turned into dog meat.
If you have not been able to raise the £5,000.00 (or half that as you have indicated) needed on your ‘Go fund me’ page.
Where are the ponies at this moment?
What veterinary attention have they received?
What veterinary attention will they need in future?
When will they arrive at you centre?
Why has there been no updates on their condition?
Why has there been no photos since you got them into your safe place?
Why are you refusing help that could have had these ponies in care 3 weeks ago?
Dear Pete, I am happy to answer your questions; we shall see if Northfield are as happy as I am to comply. I respond as follows;-
Suzanne Kelly – You claim to have documentary ‘back up’ to your claims? Do you have actual copies of the paperwork or is this verbal / second hand information? My information for this second article came to me directly from those involved. I have seen the documentation, and have copies of the loan agreement, documentation of bankruptcy – see my clarification as to the title of the document with the december 2009 date on it (there is quite a bit on the bankruptcy which seems to have stretched over a fair period of time), evidence of denial the signature on the loan was hers, and the three page letter from the forensic handwriting expert saying that the signatures match: Cable had signed for the loan she promised to repay, and her assertion the signature was not hers was false. Right now other people are coming forward to say they want to give me evidence of other financial improprieties – watch this space. For me how a charity’s fundraisers deal with money – particularly in the attempt to get money for nothing from her then partner’s parents and pensioner grandparents – raises serious questions about whether or not these people, already shown to be deceptive about the farm animal income stream, are trustworthy.
It has been claimed that you have a vegan/ veggie agenda? Is that true? I am a vegetarian – but I don’t know anything about an ‘agenda’. My acquaintances know my stance has unchanged – I am vegetarian, but what other people want to do is not my business. If they ask me, I’ll tell them why I am one. My agenda here is to: a. let people know that despite the signs, the many online appeals promising to rescue ‘all farm animals’ – the other side of their business, kept quiet until the first article, is to sell animals to slaughter with the left hand, while asking the public for money because they want to save animals with their right hand. One person who approached me confronted them on Facebook after being sickened to find out about the killing animal a to support saving animal b was told ‘everyone’ knows that’s how they operate. Again, that’s another statement from them not backed by fact.
It has been claimed that you are an ‘alcoholic’. Is this true? Absolutely not! Nor are the claims I am a liar their administrator, Fiona Manclark, makes on Twitter which she refuses to remove. She’s told me to ‘go ahead and sue’ – well, because my reputation means a lot to people who come to me with stories, I am considering doing just that. Alcoholism is a serious disease; if I thought someone were suffering from it, whatever their business ethics (or lack thereof) – I would not be accusing them of it publicly or privately.
So, I hope this clears things up from my side to your satisfaction; if not – let me know. Over to you Ms Cable
PS – I’d still like answers to the questions I posted for Kelly Cable, which she calls stupid. Pete – please let me know what you think of those questions – and Kelly – we’re waiting. I was approached by the people who gave me the story of trying to renege on the loan; I met with them, rifled through reams of paperwork, and that’s how this article came about. More people have since approached me – and when I see their paperwork, we may well see some further developments.
Dear Peter – while Northfield’s Facebook page administrator Fiona Manclark has found her way to this article and the comments section, it is starting to look as if Northfield are not going to reply to either your or my questions.
As ever, great article. I think the one on Syria could have been a ‘stand alone’, mainly because it contains so much information that explains the background to this awful conflict.
Suzanne, please do take me to court. Your reputation means everything to you? You haven’t even been to visit Kelly even though you have been invited many times.
And you have been seen coming out (or should I say falling out) of brewdog on many occasions. So until you remove your rubbish about Kelly, I will not be removing my truths about you.
for the benefit of readers, Fiona Manclark has used Twitter and Facebook to say I am a liar and an alcoholic. You will not be surprised to hear that I consider this libel and am taking advice. Manclark refuses to remove the posts. There is no point in visiting this farm. I don’t care if the animals that are being saved live in luxury. The original fundraising and sign for the ‘rescue’ claims that Cable rescues ‘ALL’ farm animals. When the truth came out – that they breed and sell animals which are sold for slaughter/meat/whatever at Thainstone to support the rescue work, that spoke volumes. Subsequent claims that ‘everyone’ knows they sell animals, that they don’t personally kill the sold animals so it’s OK, etc. etc. coupled with what looks to many (including those currently investigating from other news providers) like attempt to gain by deception (ie signing for a loan, then claiming the signature was a forgery, then having an expert prove the signature was genuine) are the relevant points. If Manclark or Cable answer the questions put by myself or other posters on this article, we can address issues they raise. Don’t worry Fiona – you will be hearing from legal representatives in the near future, although I would ask you one last time to remove your remarks which I consider libel damaging to my reputation and earning prospects. Just so you are in the loop, I am not the only person interested in how this operation at Northfield has solicited funds.
readers – while this post fails to meet the usual criteria for acceptable commentary on an article, it is being approved to demonstrate the libel continues. BrewDog staff will be surprised to hear that I have ever fallen out of the doors; and probably be miffed at the suggestion they are allowing me to get regularly inebriated in contravention of existing licensing laws. I’d quite like to know who it is who’s watching me; it’s just a tad stalky and creepy – Suzanne
Fiona – the questions put to Northfield by Peter Steven and by me still await something a bit more relevant by way of reply. By now, there may well be one or two other journalists asking the same questions…
I think that you will find that I also keep my sources confidential. As for the questions put forward re the sanctuary, the solicitor has advised Kelly not to answer any questions on here.
You have a solicitor who has no issue if you publish accusations that someone is an alcoholic and a liar – but who thinks it might somehow be risky to say where the Shetlands are coming from, where they are, or to answer any of the other questions? Happy to pass that on.
It appears that the conversation has moved at speed since I last logged in, not only here but on Northfields face book page where a variety of interesting reasons for non compliance are being put forward in response to a request for further information.
I find myself becoming increasingly confused, if not rather annoyed by some of the responses.
Cries of ‘Liar’, ‘alcoholic’, ‘fraudster’ etc. seem to be getting thrown freely about along with the threat of ‘solicitors’ and ‘legal action’.
That aside I appreciate that the questions I put forward to both parties have at least elicited a response from Suzanne Kelly who has answered in great detail. Thank you for your response Suzanne.
Unfortunately not one of the questions I have posted regarding Northfield Animal haven have yet been answered or even acknowledged by them?
1. It is almost a month since you launched your appeal to save these ponies from being turned into dog meat.
If you have not been able to raise the £5,000.00 (or half that as you have indicated) needed on your ‘Go fund me’ page.
Where are the ponies at this moment?
What veterinary attention have they received?
What veterinary attention will they need in future?
When will they arrive at you centre?
Why has there been no updates on their condition?
Why has there been no photos since you got them into your safe place?
Why are you refusing help that could have had these ponies in care 3 weeks ago?
I have to admit that I have found being ignored rather annoying and that the vague replies given by Northfield are simply another attempt to ‘muddy the waters’, so this made me look at some of the posts and answers on the NAH face book pages. What I found was rather surprising and even alarming.
In the interest of fairness, I would welcome response from Northfield animal haven to the comments I post below, so long as you are happy to answer the questions posted above.
‘Most of our lambs are over 6 months of age before they go the ram lambs normally go for meat and the ewe lambs normally are bought by other farmers.’ I don’t know about anyone else but, (despite the grammar) that seems to indicate that they DO knowingly sell animals to slaughter?
A staggering reply to a comment about charity status is as follows – Northfield Animal Haven ‘Frederick I am a registered non profit organisation, which has the same rules and laws with being a registered charity only difference is we don’t have an sco number, accounts etc all have to be done legally same as a charity.’
My personal opinion is that this is just a downright lie! I think somebody needs to get their ‘legal eagles’ to check this out because I think there is a bit more of a difference between being a ‘Scottish registered charity’ and a ‘non profit organisation’ than an SCVO number? This takes me back to their previous posts where they like to promote their SCVO number which is about as legitimate as a Labour party membership card at the moment.
With regard to the counter accusations made against the author of this article, I am not sure that even if she were an alcoholic if that would invalidate her observations. The replies given seem to be just a diversion from actually answering any of the questions asked.
The most important question in my mind is ‘Where are the ponies?’ It is now2 weeks since this was posted
‘Northfield Animal Haven
August 28 at 11:26am •
Just another wee update about the ponies, due to the weather yesterday they didn’t get moved so we will be going for transport this week on the first good day without wind and rain will keep you posted. Kelly’
I had not realised the weather has been that bad but perhaps this simple question might elicit a response? Over to you Northfield.
Dear Pete, Thank you for cutting to the important issue – where are these ponies? I’d like to hear from the owner (very odd they have stayed silent I think). I’d like to know if the animals need veterinary care, and what their condition is.
As to the various claims about the integrity of my data, I think I’m going to publish the documents I have (with addresses blocked out) to end all doubt.
It seems Kelly Cable is saying she has a brain tumour (mentioned on Facebook). This would in her case seem to be a condition going back to 2001 at least. I wish her a speedy and full recovery. It’s a bit surprising you can run a working farm, an animal sanctuary – even get a mortgage– with such a physical impediment, but there you go. It’s even more surprising that Northfield, run by someone apparently with a serious illness, wants to publicly insist that I have a serious illness (which thankfully I don’t) in order to discredit me. It is almost as if she is asking for compassion by revealing this illness, while at the same time having no compassion for someone believed to be ill. (The comments about my being a liar and alcoholic are not made directly by Kelly, but by her acquaintance. They are made on Twitter and on Facebook by a Northfield Animal Haven administrator, so you can conclude Northfield shares these sentiments).
If not for this (non-materialised) threat of legal action, and if not for the people who have come forward since with interesting tales of fdealing with Cable, I’d probably just let things lie, and let the various regulatory bodies do their work. However, it seems I’m being challenged, so it looks like a further article is coming with new revelations as to past financial dealings and images to back up my claims. Again, how someone obtains money, how they pay back (or don’t pay back) loans is definitely in the public interest if they are seeking donations for a charity for which the fundamental claims keep shifting (are they solely dependent on donations as sometimes claimed? No. Do they rescue ‘all farm animals’ as sometimes claimed? no). Potential donors have a right to this information.
So Pete thanks for your excellent questions, I for one am happy to answer any further questions, and I await Northfield’s answers to questions you and I posed. There will be quite a few more questions coming along, just from the people who got in touch with me this past week. And the articles are of course staying up.
If anyone else would like to contact me in confidence with details of relevant dealings with Northfield / Cable, please contact Aberdeen Voice.
This correspondence is with regards to the articles printed in your online publication of which legal advice has been sought.
I have been left with no choice but to demand you to take these articles down and also print a retraction confirming that errors have been made under the Defamation Act and Human Rights Act.
Your articles contain false information.
Your articles contain defamatory statements designed to cause harm to reputation.
Your articles contain information that should not be printed under the Human Rights Act for Privacy.
Your articles have caused threatening phone calls i.e. death threats, which are not acceptable; these have been reported to the Police.
If this action is not done within 10 days of receipt of this letter then I may be left with no other option but to raise a court action against you.
As the Press Complaints Commission does not regulate you this avenue cannot be pursued.
As you have no business address available to the public this has to be printed on your site as a comment, due to your sites moderation of comments, this will also be printed publicly on social media.
While I am confident that this matter can be resolved, I shall not hesitate to legal action to resolve this matter.
A somewhat predictable response from Kelly. All bull and bluster designed to distract and throw you off the scent.
As she is obviously still following your articles she has again avoided answering any of the questions posed to her regarding the whereabouts of the ponies and their condition. Perhaps more surprising is that there has been no further mention of them on the Northfield face book page either.
Whilst I am confident you will indeed print a retraction and an apology should you have unwittingly made any errors, regardless of the threat of the Defamation or Human Rights acts. Perhaps she should clarify her demands as to exactly which part of the articles contain the ‘false information’ she is specifically claiming to be false?
Which specific statement you have made that was ‘designed to cause harm to reputation’?
Which information you printed that ‘should not be printed under the Human Rights act for Privacy’ and to which part of the act she is referring to?
How you are responsible for any third parties behaviour and show proof of how these supposed claims of ‘death threats’ are directly attributable to your articles? I am surprised that you have not already been contacted by the police in this case? Perhaps Kelly could forward you the incident number and you could contact the police yourself regarding this? I always feel it goes better for the guilty party when they turn themselves in.
Looking forward to your next article, that is if you are allowed access to computers in your police cell.
Human Rights Act,eh? I don’t know what legal advice has been sought, but it certainly isn’t from a competent professional and she should ask for her money back. Dearie me.
There’s nothing like attending Offshore Europe to remind yourself that the oil sector is a world apart, the direct bus service put on for it between the airport and the AECC isn’t just for convenience.
Like the industry itself Aberdeen isn’t a home, it’s not even a genuine long term investment, it’s just a place they have to pass through on their way to and from the business of extracting oil and servicing the extractors.
From the well-paid rig-worker to the well paid executive set, why invest or even care about a city which you’re likely not from and won’t be staying once your reasons for being there are gone?
Even Aberdonian Oil Workers show a lamentable disinterest in the long term viability of their home city.
The city center is grungy and neglected, and while there seems an increase in construction projects lately, they all seem poorly thought out. Stewie Milne’s cheap little boxes built en masse on greenbelt land for not cheap prices, bland office blocks, more unwanted shops and office space going where the old council offices were, replacing an eyesore with…an eyesore.
It’s kinda sad that the council which greenlights these projects found the money to set up in Marischall College while the city around it rots but for the developments that the oil sector wants.
All that oil wealth passes through the city but it seems none of it actually sticks around for the benefit of the burghers.
As of 22:20 pm on 13 September, Kelly Cable has made a facebook post claiming the misuse of one of the pony’s photos was a mistake and a one-off. That hardly explains the others, especially the cows. Here’s what she wrote:
“I think from now on anytime I get asked to take ponies or that I will wait until they are here before posting the pictures, have just found out one of the pictures I was sent in February for the Shetland Ponies we took in in March wasnt even one that had anything to do with the rescue and quite rightly so the lady that owns the pony in the picture is fuming, I have apologised for this and deleted her ponies picture. So to be on the safe side from now I am going to wait until they are here at least that way I know the pictures im putting up are of real ponies that do need help”
Yes, well – it would be a good idea to put up pictures of real ponies that do need help when asking for money to help them. Good night all – Suzanne Kelly
I would like to point out here that stealing other peoples photos without their permission is copyright infringement. It is especially fraudulent to be making money from using other peoples work and you can be sued for it. It is also blatently lying to people in my opinion who believe that the money they are donating is going towards saving the animals they are seeing.
We are starting to find out what kind of people Kelly Cable and her ilk really are – dishonest and in some cases downright nasty IMO – especially when they resort to spouting degrading remarks by referring to the reporter as an ‘alkie'(which by the way Kelly Cable, is slander, a word you enjoyed throwing around as I recall), or calling those voicing their concerns over the ethics of her rescue-cum-livestock operation she is running ‘animal abusers’.
Personally i’m a little confused by this statement: ‘have just found out one of the pictures I was sent in February for the Shetland Ponies we took in in March wasnt even one that had anything to do with the rescue’
She states that the photograph sent to her regarding the shetland ponies by, i’m assuming the then owner of the shetland ponies, was in fact a stolen image. Why on earth would the owner have sent a fake photograph of their own ponies? If you had recieved the photograph in february and obtained the ponies in march, how did you not come to realize then that the picture was not genuine? How have you only just found this out now?
Even if, as she states, the pony picture was an error, what about the other stolen photos?
Also on Northfields facebook page, a wellmeaning facebook member who owns a registered charity has pointed out to Northfield the benefits of registering the sanctuary as a charity, as it is free to do so and will offer support and help with funding. This would be helpful, since they are now with the loss of donors lacking funds(and Northfield has commented that Kelly can ‘barely afford to feed herself’ – If you cannot afford to feed yourself, should you really be taking on the responsibility of having other hungry mouths to feed? Surely your wellbeing should come first). It will also help keep accurate records by requiring said charity to submit annual reports and accounts, and will offer their donors peace of mind. In other words, it will mean the organisation can operate with complete protection and transparency. Peace of mind for all.
Sounds like something too good to pass up, right?
However Northfield, from their comments on their facebook page, refuses point blank to register as a charity. Though this is not a crime, it does not help their case, especially from an onlookers point of view. One cannot help wondering if there really is something they’re trying to hide.
One supporter said on their page that ‘I do not really think that Northfield Animal Haven have to prove any more that they “have nothing to hide”‘. I disagree.
Given that they have not been entirely open to the public about their other livestock operation(which frankly no one who donates to save animals, meat eater or otherwise would be impressed with IMO), their refusal of help from other sanctuaries then claiming on their public funding page that they had received no offers of help, and now having been found using false images in order to obtain funding – i’d say proving this is now more important than ever – that is, if they want to retain the confidence of their supporters.
Ms. Cable also stole the use of a photo of a _healthy_ Shetland pony in her plea for money. Now she’s in trouble with the owner of the photo’s copyright. Lawsuit all around her.
Just trying to get my head round the mass of information you have supplied Suzanne.
2006 – 2009 – Kelly Cable was committing benefit fraud to the tune of £3,600.00 for which she was found guilty and ordered to do 180 hours community service. Her response – that she paid the money back and only pleaded guilty to avoid losing the farm. (Why would you pay the money back if you were not guilty?)
Following this she borrowed further money for a house purchase and when denying that she had ever got it a handwriting expert proved her claims false.
She was declared bankrupt (presumably this was the reason why the loan was never repaid) yet somehow managed to get a mortgage on her farm. Rather surprising considering her criminal record and brain tumour that anybody would give her a mortgage.
2011 Kelly opens an animal sanctuary at her Northfield farm. Seemingly she also raises and sells sheep to pay for this worthwhile endeavour. Although I cannot understand how the income of around £1,000.00 per year (she claims) is a viable business or capable of producing sufficient funds to run such an establishment.
She also claims incorrectly ‘I am a registered non profit organisation, which has the same rules and laws with being a registered charity only difference is we don’t have an sco number, accounts etc all have to be done legally same as a charity’.
Since then she has run a variety of campaigns to raise money for her sanctuary. However the pictures she uses on almost all of her fund raisers are false and. Some of the stories associated with the ‘rescues’ are completely fabricated, the example of the cows which she claimed “They dumped them in a shed I’ve been feeding them since Friday” were actually of a rescue in the USA 4 years previously although she clearly stated “RIP to the cows dumped in a shed, I couldn’t save them I tried to get more time and raise enough f… ‘
Her latest campaign to rescue 2 mares and 4 foals is centred round an undisclosed source who intended turning them into dog food, but when offered sanctuary by 2 other well known and respected rescues, refused to allow them to go to anybody but herself. (I find it a bit odd that if she was going to have them as dog food she should suddenly get picky about where they go)
Since then the pictures she had posted of the ponies is discovered to be false and are in fact other peoples ponies who to say the least are not happy about this at all, not surprisingly. However, she has consistently refused to say where the ponies are, give any updates as to their wellbeing (other than they are in a safe place) or provide any photos of the ponies in question despite being in their care for several weeks.
It now transpires that amongst other disabilities she has a brain tumour, claims to be receiving a number of death threats which (conveniently) include threats to the ponies should they arrive at their so called haven, hence the need for secrecy.
Do I have that in the right order and is it just me or do I seem to feel there is a certain repetition to her behaviour?
Oh, and just for extra, it appears from her father Eric, that you ‘and your cohorts’ have now broken her spirit forcing closure, and have revealed all this because you are on a vegan campaign because they sell 15/20 sheep per year. Seemingly it is also up to you and the other sanctuaries to feed and find homes for all the animals they care for.
My first suggestion to Eric Cable would be for him to contact the two rescues who offered to take the six Shetlands and see if they are still willing to help. As for him stating who will ‘step up to the plate’ I rather think the emphasis is on them to find homes for their rescued animals. They are still responsible for their wellbeing. They have claimed to have as many as 200 animals in their care, but which are farm animals and exactly how many are actual rescues is very unclear, however, I look forward to hearing that the six Shetlands are amongst the first to achieve sanctuary.
I hope I have this in the correct order, but please feel free to inform me of any errors I may have inadvertently made.
Just as a matter of interest have you received any visit from the police or solicitors letters yet?
Dear Pete, Thank you for putting it all in order. And your understanding matches my own. If their lawyer (who has not contacted me) would permit them to explain any errors I have made, I will be the first to correct them and apologise.
Since you mention Eric, he is making some charmingly amusing remarks on Facebook. On a thread about me/these articles, he says he’d like to get an AK-47 (tongue in cheek). Whatever am I to make of that.
For my part, all the information uncovered is now with Police Scotland, which will decide if there is anything untowards going on. I’ll report back – if able.
It has been claimed you are an Alkie and a liar and run a vendetta with cohorts of vegans bent on the ruination of this animal welfare group…..but on balance I am 100% certain of your credibility. You have answered every question put to you with back up information, quotes and facts. I have yet to see any credible answer to the questions put to Northfield other than counter allegations or a cry of ‘poor us, we are getting bullied’
I would ask yet again for proof of these ponies existence?
It seems to me that Ms Cable should get her facts straight before letting rip, especially about AV. If she had then she would plainly have seen that AV is “not affiliated to any Political Party or the interests of any private company, lobby or third party organisation. Its focus is to give a voice to the general public in the North East and to promote inclusion in affairs affecting the region.” So that blows the whole allegation that Suzanne Kelly is out to head a vegan cohort in order to close down Northfield (in fact, vegans would like nothing more than to see animal sanctuaries thriving not shutting in order to remove animals from the horror of slaughter that Ms. Cable sells the farm lambs to). As far as Suzanne’s diet is concerned it wouldn’t surprise me in the least that there are more carnivores who write for the publication than vegetarians, so if the article had been written by a meat eater would AV then be accused of having an anti-rescue bias?
Ms. Cable has also made mention of death threats against her which also include the ponies. It would be interesting to find out who she thinks these death threats are from because no-one involved in the fight for animal rights would EVER think about hurting an animal. And that also includes humans as we are as much animals as those on four legs, we are just a different species of animal.
As for the allegation being made that Suzanne Kelly is an “alkie” because she was
SUPPOSEDLY seen stumbling out of a bar, has no-one affiliated with Northfield ever left a bar drunk? I know that in the past 25 years since I have been legally allowed to buy alcohol that I’ve left drinking establishments a little the worse for wear on occasion. Or are everyone at Northfield modern-day Puritans who have never touched alcohol and think that everyone else should be the same?
Am toying with the idea of writing a sarcastic piece about the bizarre claims made against me and the contradictory logic employed by those affiliated with NAH. By the way, when I told BrewDog staff / customers about the allegations of me being seen falling out of the bar’s doors, they have no such recollection, and we all had a little laugh. Death threats are not as much a laughing matter. But if we’re supposed to believe that the Cables want our sympathy because they have received death threats, then it’s just a bit lacking in empathy for Eric Cable to have made a remark about getting an AK-47 on a Facebook page referring to me / these articles. Perhaps joking about bumping me off is a means of venting over the death threats they say they have had – which I hope they’ve brought to the attention of Police Scotland. One thing they are in denial about: I am the author of articles chronicling what has been done – I am not the author of their misfortunes, they are. Oh, and as far as the secret Vegan extremist cult agenda is concerned; alas, I am vegetarian, not vegan.
Glad to see you are not Tweeting from your
police cell as opposed to your politically active undercover ‘veggie cell’ devoted to the trolling of good honest people who wouldn’t ‘flee the fair’
Vegans and veggies, they are all the same. A bit like a working farm and an animal rescue centre. As my uncle Charlie used to say “Neeps – foo’s yer heed!”. I also do a great cake that contains a hacksaw, if ever needed. 🙂
You do realise I hope that the sheep shown in the pictures above does NOT have ear tags!
This must be rectified as soon as possible, according to the “Sheep and Goat Identification and Traceability – Guidance for Keepers In Scotland”.
You may otherwise incur the wrath of both “Animal Health” & The Scottish Government!!!
I await a new picture showing the aforementioned animal with its new, pretty tags (unless you use a bolus, in which case just one tag will do.
🙂
Oh dear, I’ve been blocked too. Just to say I’d no hat in this ring, I know that many people who desperately want to save animals will take them in and appeal for money, and then get into into difficulties with their books. No one condemns them and offers to help straighten out their affairs come flooding in – as a member of SCVO, Northfiled has access to free legal advice and help with accounting. If they’d asked for advice for setting up a haven for farm animals they would have been advised the best way to do this would have been to offer free farm land to an animal charity. And I would also say that most farmers are animal lovers even if they breed animals for slaughter. But, reason my hat is now in the ring is the appeal for £5000 for transport for 4 Shetlands is not the cost of transporting 4 Shetland ponies anywhere, and since I’ve asked questions of NAH I’ve been referred to April’s post to see a picture of some Shetland ponies with no details. Angry that goodhearted people are paying money to people who claim to be a registered non profit organisation which is n
ot, when they could donate to effective and legal charities who really do protect animals.
I think it’s important to consider the main issue here. This is not about Veggies V Meat eaters. This is not about breeding animals for slaughter.This is not an attack on an animal rescue who are neglecting or abusing their animals. This is not an attack on a vulnerable person or organisation.
This is an attack on people who abuse people! This is about people deceiving the public into thinking they are contributing money and goods towards the rescue of animals pictured in need. This is about the concealment of truth about those peoples methods of operation. This is about the lack of transparency and accountability of funds raised. This is about the methodical attempts to muddy the waters by lie upon lie and counter claim after counter claim. This is about the arrogance of people who think they can tell you lies and expect to get away with it. This is about people who think they do not have to account for their actions by simply refusing to answer you.
This is about people being brought to account by good investigative journalism!
What a load of utter bollocks in my opinion from the northfield animal haven aka kelly marie cable. All these pleas for donations for money for keeping the animals alive and the ponies that will only go to you (supposedly)- that is if they do actually exist. The duplication of other people’s photos of there animals that have nowt to do with Northfield that would be fraud by false representation. As for Cable’s claim (made elsewhere) stating they don’t have a computer for doing the accounts or a scanner for copying them bull. Kelly’s brother had a large computer shop that built and sold computers in Turriff so I doubt he would not see her without a pc and printer scanner that would be able to do everything to run the place [Note: Northfield certainly seem to have access to computers for creating all their fundraising appeal and using social media sites such as Facebook and Twitter]. Kelly is capable of doing the accounts and knowing how to email them. What is interesting is how would she keep charity donations of feed straw and hay apart from her personal purchases of same items and how much of the haven raises goes towards paying the Mortgage and the household bills. How much does Kelly actually earn and does it cover the running bills of the farm? From what I have read and followed it seems like a lot of deception has gone on and if nothing to hide why has she closed down and removed her fundraising appeals? oh and Suzanne I don’t believe for one minute what’s said about you – they are trying to cloud the waters so people can’t see clearly what is going on with you’re articles of factual accurate and we’ll researched reports thank you
Do you have proof this fundraising money wasn’t used to help animals??
BTW I hope you know suing someone for being libellous would cost you at least £3000 to even get to the initial hearing stage, and that you’d lose the case imo, calling someone an alcoholic isn’t libellous, it’s that persons opinion of you, rightly or wrongly people are allowed to state opinions on other people.
If this is a scam great work, I’ve not followed the story so would like to see some evidence of any wrongdoing?
‘Great’ work is high and unexpected praise from Bill Stephens.
The police are looking into how the money was spent; that’s their area. There were also goods donated via Amazon to do with animal care feeding, etc. I wonder whether these were only used for rescue animals and not for the commercial meat side of the business.
The deceptions had to do with using images (without permission) of animals who needed no rescue without explaining the (misappropriated) images were for illustration only. Did the six Shetland ponies actually exist? We were told the ponies were destined for the meat trade unless we coughed up £5,000. Two charities said they would rescue the animals without needing to raise £5,000. Then Northfield said the animals’ owners would only let Northfield save them. How logical does it seem to you that this mysterious owner didn’t contact major rescues, only Cable, and would rather have the ponies turned into meat rather than rescued by others? The explanation for this was along the lines that the owner (who has never come forward) decided that there was some sort of unfair vendetta or something against Cable. How an owner so far away (must not be local considering the sums wanted for transport and vets) knew anything about any vendetta is a good question, as is how they’d rather have the animals to be rescued killed if it meant not giving to CAble.
The Go Fund Me page was misleading in that it made a representation that Northfield was dependent only on the public to keep going. Not true: they didn’t let people know that they also sell animals at market. This alone was upsetting for some donors who would never have contributed to a rescue acting like this.
Is the past behaviour of the shelter’s operators relevant? I think so – there is a pattern of proven benefit fraud, several cases of borrowing thousands of pounds without repayment, in at least one case Kelly Cable tried to claim her signature on a loan document was a forgery. A forensic handwriting expert proved her claim was untrue.
As to my intent to take legal action against Fiona Manclark, she’s repeated the claim that I am an alcoholic and a liar over several different social media platforms. If she said ‘I beleive Suzanne is a liar and an alcoholic’ that would be one thing. She says that it is true, she won’t back down or apologise, and that I am an alcoholic and a liar. As I want people to keep coming to me with stories to research, and as I’d rather like my current and future employers to think well of me, action will be taken. I did give her every chance to retract / apologise, so she’s brought this on herself.
Incorrect terminology is, as Monsieur Allard says, potentially damaging. Unfortunately Monsieur Allard goes on to say that “They are not migrants….I am a migrant and I am no refugee”
Monsieur Allard makes no attempt to explain who “they “are but I presume, perhaps mistakenly, that he is referring to anyone who has recently arrived in Europe from the Middle East and/or Turkey. This gives rise to a further presumption, again perhaps mistaken, that he is blessed of special powers which enable him to determine, from a great distance, the origin, status and intentions of hundreds of thousands of people currently crossing Eastern and Central Europe on foot or crossing the sea to Greece.
At this moment in time, there is a burgeoning black market in Syrian passports across Europe as economic migrants seek to maximise their chances of being granted “refugee” status. Neither the migrants or refugees have any interest in seeking to settle in Eastern Europe or even in France, Spain or Italy. They are determined to make their way to England, Germany and Scandinavia as that is where they believe a better future lies.
If language is important, surely it is worth taking the time to ascertain who is a “migrant” and who is a “refugee”, to ensure the most vulnerable are protected, rather than lazily following the rather tired and unscrupulous SNP party line, which is to try to claim moral superiority over the UK Government by labelling everyone as a “refugee” and trying to exploit a humanitarian crisis.
What is his truthfull agenda for cove harbour in the future a house by any chance as why would he need it vacated and ruin hundreds of years of family tradition of fishing and the ĺeisure activities I am 47 now and I remember when I was a child and going out of cove harbour with the boat with my dad and his friend and it was a busy place then and if someone has used something for over 13yrs can they not claim possession of what they was using I might be wrong with that and would it not be very expensive serving court orders on individual people who are using the area for each of there activities be it from climbing to fishing
I was of the opinion that the coastal area’s belonged to the crown, if this is the case surely the fisherman would have right of access. Do we know what the said individual intends to do with the land. Between harbour developments and this we will have no public coastline left.
This man is in my opinion obviously a self centered buffoon who thinks he is more important than a community… Cove harbour has always been a public place, no-one should have the right to change that..!
Who does this single minded person think he is I was brought up.in cove and we always went down to the cove shore to explore as kids and when we got older took our kids and friends with us think this Person needs to realise this is a public place that all the locals and visitors do go to can this man open his eyes and show a little compassion for the local fishermen as many of them have been there for a good many years and their fathers before them a need to start a petition and see if they could get someone else to buy the area and keep it for everyone.
The law is on the side of the fishermen. Mr Kohle has no legal case whatsoever IMO. This is a pure try on and if he went to court he would loose. Just ignore this petty tyrant and carry on as usual.
Fairly sure you are right, Scott. And there might just be a case for counter suing for using harassment to wrongly deprive people of their rights. That would be sweet.
I thought that there was a method used by squatters that occupying somewhere of a set period meant that they became the owners
Or is that English law (which I believe may have been changed recently)
What happened to the case a year or few ago about some holiday huts? (in Ayrshire?)
I do hope everyone watches this, I have been looking forward to seeing it. I watched the first film, & I know that friends in the US have watched it on my recommendation – they’re not fans of The Donald either! It being Mark Kermode’s “TV film of the week” might bring it a wider audience that it would normally have garnered.
This programme provided an excellent opportunity for me to rediscover my anger and astonishment at the way this unusual example of humanity was not only permitted to ride roughshod over legal protection, established democratic procedure and the human rights of ordinary Scots, but that he did so with the full cooperation, encouragement and toadying of the Scottish Government, particularly Alex Salmond, Aberdeen Journals, our forces of law and order and both Aberdeenshire and Aberdeen City Councils.
What is it about the vulgarity of obscene wealth which turns otherwise intelligent and honest individuals into such slavering sycophants?
Could not agree with you more, Mr Wood – I had a few “I didn’t remember that” & “I can’t believe he said that” moments. I had the pleasure of meeting David Milne shortly after the first film was broadcast, & made a point of telling him how appalled I was by what was happening & how much I admired him for his stand. One thing Trump said, I think in the first film, but it was shown again last night, when he commented “Mr Milne has a house that is, frankly, unattractive” is making my blood boil all over again as I type this – Trump is hardly the arbiter of good taste, never mind the “environmental expert” he claimed to be, among other things. The tourism award was simply laughable – does he really think people are that uninformed? The letter Mr Forbes received from someone in San Francisco apologising for “our worst American export” would have been amusing if it wasn’t so sad & true.
Hello Sarah – the lecture will be on Aberdeen Voice after it is given by Neil Cooney. The link at the bottom of the article provides further information. Hope this helps
Thank you for the kind words. Even if I’m not living in Aberdeen, there is nothing to stop me keeping an eye on the town and a hand on a keyboard. I recall that the city once had a pension advisor; she moved to Canada. Apparently she was so invaluable, and no one else could do the job that they flew her over and paid her expenses when they needed her. This may have been around the same time we didn’t have enough money for all the social programmes that were cut. Have a great day.
the road down to the Harbour belongs to council so they would have no obligation to maintain this road if it was private it was built for access for fishermen, who originally built the road with there bare hands and was just boulders and cement. this guy better just stick to his plastic business and stop ripping off NHS for work that was never done
In my opinion Bibo’s work here is not good and I agree it does not deserve the publicity it has received. I think it is fair for the college to choose that which they deem appropriate to show at the exhibition. If the student or others disagree then send work into the appropriate forum for display or go to such a venue. The work makes no great social comment,again and of course, in my opinion. Thanks for the opportunity to read this article and to give my opinion. I hope that the promotion of this work inspires other artists of greater quality to raise their work above and beyond the purulent and grab our attention with something that can truly make us think and act differently.
“Scotland’s third sector, which does huge amounts of public good, desperately needs access to a financial infrastructure that matches its values and ways of working. For charities and socially beneficial organisations, the current financial system is broken beyond repair – leaving them hampered by scattered resources, unsuitable products and unmet needs,” said Deirdre Forsyth, Chair of Scottish Community Re:Investment Trust.”
I agree with the aims of SCRT but I don’t know of any other source of finance apart from the current financial system.
The financial system is broken beyond repair but there is no analysis on the SCRT site to explain this situation that affects all of us.
Look for the source of the problem and therein lies the solution. “Follow the money” supply to its source and you find the problem.
As detailed in The Bank of England Quarterly Bulletin Q1 2014 (website and videos), Topical article “Money Creation in the Modern Economy: An Introduction,” 97% of our money is now created in the form of loans by banking corporations and 3% as cash.
Every loan and mortgage means the creation of new money by the bank as bank credit (IOU).
Deposits do not create loans. Loans create deposits. Sounds mad but it’s true.
We have a private-for-profit money system which is fundamentally flawed because the interest demanded must also come from the same source, thus demanding even more interest.
That is why the National Debt has to go up. Taxes the same.
It doesn’t have to be like this. It’s a man-made system not a rule of nature.
The money reform group Positive Money is lobbying for a Commission on Money Creation to investigate the real problem instead of tinkering with regulation.
John Robins of Animal Concern has been in touch to comment: “This expensive project appears to have been fatally flawed from the start. Aberdeen City Council decided, against the wishes of locals, to replace a perfectly good wildlife habitat and natural meadow with an artificial woodland planted on ground which is unlikely to be able to support mature trees. They have not protected the young trees from being smothered by weeds or browsing by animals and they have killed so many roe deer the herd which lived there for generations may never recover. I suggest those involved plant some Calluna vulgaris – they might need some lucky white heather to keep their jobs.”
Aberdeen City Council has had many fiscal fiascoes, this being one. When challenged on these issues, officials come up with the most absurd arguments, Pete Leonard being an expert in this field.
Please can you advise if you have any more open evenings coming up? I am currently taking part in counseling skills training at Aberdeen University and am very keen to volunteer to help counsel with an organization such as yours.
I have been practising ‘Silent Night’ on my recorder and have looked out my elf hat, you know, the one I can use to collect the money, that will of course be rolling in when they hear my rendition of said carol. There will not be a dry eye on the terrace.
In an ever changing world of seemingly irresistible technological advance, it is always comforting to return to my native city, to find that some things remain reassuringly familiar, not least the apparently relentless Aberdeen City Council drive to remove all forms of wildlife, particularly roe deer, beyond the city limits.
Throw in the unwillingness of Aberdeen City Council, to voluntarily provide information to justify a degree of mass slaughter, rumoured to be the basis of a forthcoming Hollywood blockbuster entitled Bambi meets ISIS, and I am almost breaking into a proud and spontaneous chorus of The Northern Lights of Old Aberdeen.
We the Trustees of Port Erroll Harbour are intrigued by the narrative contained in the foregoing article to the effect that the Trustees have a “Draft Plan” for a Visitor – Heritage Centre and other related accommodation at Port Erroll Harbour.
There is no such ‘draft plan’ and whoever provided you with the information has miss-informed you.
It might have been better before going public, had you contacted the Trustees and established the accurate position regarding this matter.
The Trustees are trying to save the Port which has been a working Registered Port since 1872. The Harbour currently runs the grave possibility of being totally lost if there are no further extensive repairs and maintenance carried out. It has been professionally estimated that the Port requires a £2.4 million pound investment.
The Trustees in carrying out their fiduciary duties are looking at a range of ideas to develop robust revenue streams so that the Port can attract funding packages that will in turn secure the long term future of the Registered Port.
One of the ideas that is being considered along with others is a Visitor – Heritage Centre.
If any of the ideas were to become a possible viable project then all the relevant outcomes from a public consultation process would be an inherent part of any final design. It really goes without saying that full recognition of any Conservation status – requirements that may apply at the time of any proposed planning application would also be taken fully into account.
You will also know that there have been several award winning waterside developments carried out in Conservation Areas in Scotland,
[This post has been edited, heavily – it did not meet our criteria, and exhibited the kind of xenophobia Trump does. It is being published in edited form to allow me to reply – Suzanne Kelly ]Donald Trump is trying to prevent those who have added to the ruination of the Usa from entering the country. what in hell is wrong with that? nothing. Scotland has not been attacked as the USa has at the world trade center, San Baernardino killings. When Obama an for offic against hilliary clinton he said ‘mygrandmother showed typical white behavior.’ this racist should never have been President. the white race inculudes, Scottish, English, Irish, France, numerous nationalities. Including yours, Suzanne kelly. Why wassnt obama punished? becasue he has fooled many stupid people. Obm also insulted christians at the National day of Prayer Breakfast help annually in the White House. He never apologized.Turmp is not wanting to physically harm anyone. he just wants to keep out those harming the USa. That is not hate, The USa has suffered enough to to its goodness of allowing people freely into the country.
It never ceases to amaze me that people will formulate strong opinions, make sweeping generalisations and reach unfounded conclusions without doing any research at all. 1. Donald Trump DOES want to hurt people – he’s said, and repeated that relatives of terrorists should be taken out (i.e. killed if you haven’t realised it). This has had condemnation from many quarters, and is of course in direct opposition to worldwide conventions and accords on basic human rights. He’s not called for the relatives of would-be pipe bomber William Celli to be taken out though; I wonder why not? But to get on to the racism comments in Virginia’s submission. We could try to explain the difference to you between the words ‘typical’ and ‘all’. What Obama said was this: “The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn’t know (pause) there’s a reaction in her that doesn’t go away and it comes out in the wrong way.” – and Donald Trump said ALL Muslims would be banned ‘until we can figure out what the hell is going on.’ Should we have to wait for Trump to figure out what is going on, we’d best get comfortable and not hold our collective breath. Obama has fooled stupid people? Has Trump then appealed to the intellencia? But there is our lesson for the day – the difference between ‘typical’ and ‘all’.
It’s your comments and conclusions about race though which worry me. The white races. Ah yes, you presume to know what race I am. First though, one of the more eloquent speakers at the UK Parliamentary debate helpfully debunked the myth that America was/is some form of inclusive melting pot that historically welcomed everyone with open arms. My Irish immigrant ancestors fled starvation, and were met in New York when looking for work by signs that read ‘No Blacks, No Irish and No dogs.’ America of course wasn’t so nice to the actual Americans, the tiniest bit of their blood is in me, which is a source of pride. Alas, though, I think that would taint my ‘white racial purity’ in the eyes of someone like you to whom skin colour and ‘race’ seem so important. (NB – I am not a ‘pretendian’ – someone with a drop of Native American blood who believes they are indeed native). So no, I don’t think of my race as being the white race. I think of my race as being The Human Race. I wish this would be a comment you’d take on board and do further research and soul searching in response, but that’s not going to happen.
Interesting article. Thanks. ” Heritage Centre” or not, it does make a point about how strongly most local peopIe feel about the retention of the conservation area status of Port Errol. It is a “living” village with a strong sense of community. When referring to a draft plan by the Harbour Trust of building a two storey modern building on the drying green, I wondered whether you refered to the following? http://youtu.be/m4ZbHx_LWek
No proposals? Funny the producers of the video say this : iCreate produced this Flyaround and Interior Walkthrough Animation to show the proposed visitor-heritage centre for Port Erroll Harbour, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
Save extra huff to your precious parliament that rules over your Scotland from London and honour me with a simultaneous exclusion with Trump because I endorse his position in regard to Muslim immigration to the USA 100%. I can do without breathing the oxygen your dismal weather generates. Since we are a Republic as unlike you, your parliament and your queen have no writ over Malta. And the European Union, that quintessential liberalist half arsed rump will have to lump it whether it likes us conservatives and rightist or not. Thanks to your Muslim arse kissing multitudes who cringe we who do not (cringe) and have killed the critters in their thousands throughout history here at least, will continue to grow. Meanwhile you bunch of chamberlainites continue to pander to them whilst they continue to hold you beneath contempt for as Mr. Benn said in your precious parliament (aka saliva palace) each one of them considers himself as superior to you. Then when the Shit will hit the fan you will be evaporated by them and it will be us against them without your holier than thou leftist liberalist trembling anal twittering messing around.
Ehh… why should UK be banned from U.S.? They haven’t acted abusive as far as I know, Silly Trump really do act as a stupid, other countries may consider a ban for him as well we’ll see.
Trump is not baning Muslims he is just saying they should be screened. Do you think terrorists should be allowed into Britain willynilly if you do you obviously have never heard of the atrocities they have committed.
Suzanne here – I guess one of the other editors must have approved the comment from Murray Smith. Don’t you think it speaks volumes about prejudice? I do. Sure, let’s just segregate people based on their religious inclinations; that’s never led anywhere bad in the past (Murray, that nice Mr Trump wants to ban Muslims from entering the USA, and spy on mosques. He did not say screen them. This may come as a shock to you, but some Muslims are actually American citizens. How did you feel about the American internment camps for Americans of Japanese origin? Just wondering).
Hello, thank you for your question. There is a link in the article, but it is only for UK residents, as it’s a petition to the UK government. Here is the link for ease of reference. All the best https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003 PS – at the time of writing the petition is all of 4 hours or so old, and has over 7,000 signatures. This is gratifying; if nothing comes of it, that’s 7,000+ UK residents who’ve said no to hate speech, however wealthy the speaker is. And, it’s very humbling. Overall, this is a group project, and am proud to be part of it – Suzanne Kelly
Bravo Suzanne! I have just signed theUK Gov petition – just to let you know, 40,777 have signed it now at 08:19 on December 9. I firmly believe there will be 100000 sigs by the end of the day.
Dear ms Kelly. Thankyou for starting this petition and I’m glad it has gained much more than half a million signatures. We don’t want bigots like him in our country. Do you have any idea if and when the parliament will debate this?
I just created a petition to “Ban Suzanne Kelly of Aberdeen, Scotland from pretending she is a journalist.” It has about as much chance as her getting DT banned from the UK. Oh Well!
Sorry Trump is a racist buffoon who should not been allowed to ruin the Mennie Estate and who by the sound of his bragging is doing the same to Turnberry. By the way where are the thousands of jobs he promised at Menie all talk and no substance.
You are misguided! You must live in a perfect White bubble to not see how illegal immigration and/or not vetting Muslims correctly is wrong for any country. It’s not hate, it’s realism. You should try it sometime!
I’ll be impressed when Miss Kelly calls for the banning from the UK of most of the Saudi prices living in London calling for Sharia law in the UK. But she is merely 1 more of the politically correct masses who don’t see the real danger to the country and take out their bile on a harmless blowhard.
Harmless? Running for the POTUS – you cannot be serious? The bile is flowing from Trump – you’re blinded by your preconceptions. What do you know about Trump – or rather what do you think you know about Trump? Gosh and if you feel so strongly about something then you could do worse than emulate Suzanne and work hard to achieve her goal rather than expect someone else to do the hard, thankless work! Why don’t you pull your finger out and do something rather than rain on somebody else’s parade? I’m quite sure that Suzanne won’t be kept up at night wondering how she can impress Tee Kay!!
Let’s talk about rhetoric…Suzanne Kelly is well versed in this as well. She has always had issue with Donald Trump & now this? Sorry Suzanne, but seeing as you are NOT a US citizen I think it’s safe to say that the election for President is NONE of your business. A petition to ban him from the UK for hate speech? Against a radicalized religious group? I’m sorry, am I missing something here?
Donald Trump may be boisterous, loud & unsavory at times but I’ve never known him to build IED’s, pipe bombs, carry automatic weapons or fly a plane into a building…now, terrorists have, al Qaeda HAS, ISIS/ISIL would love to do that. And perhaps most pertinent is that he didn’t say ban ALL MUSLIMS, but to cease the settlement of refugees in the US for a moment, to hit the pause button, because you know, after the Paris attack & San Bernadino shootings, you want to be sure who you are bringing into your country for safe haven. How, in your tiny little mind do you consider that hate speech & why would you have an issue with the US taking measures to protect its citizens?
That’s not hate speech, that’s being smart, not opening our borders to every refugee, because if the Paris atta is taught us ANYTHING it’s that you must be cautious, you never know where or when an attack might happen or where it might come from.
If you have a problem with that, I tell you what…come talk to me after you’ve watched 2,977 of your countries citizens either burn to death, be vaporized by an explosion, die from smoke inhalation or leap to their own deaths, all in one day, in a time span lasting less than 2 hours. One hour & 42 minutes to be exact. Almost 3,000 dead & another 6000+ injured, because of a terrorist attack by radical Muslim jihadists. Then & only then, will you have a right to open your stupid mouth.
How in the world can you even believe &/or defend this? Your arrogance is absolutely disgusting. Is Trump the best man for President? I’m not sure, there’s more information to gather everyday…what I am sure of is that I am so glad that you are not a citizen of the US. You think Trump is awful, so greedy, so filled with hate speech?
Lady, you’re just like him. And the fact that you can’t see it is extremely disturbing.
and who do you think created these so called terrorists ? UK and US bombed F out of iraq, afghanistan and libya etc. do you not think people from these countries see us as terorrists ?
foreign policy for the last 100 years has created these so called terrorists and they are only getting their own back on us any which way they can.
Rather than bar him from entering Great Britain, perhaps you could admit him and then immediately send him in exile to one of those tiny little rocky islands far off the coast of Scotland, the ones that are only like twenty by twenty feet or so. Drop food for him every few weeks, but that’s it. He’ll have to stay on his tiny island until he apologizes.
Please, Britain, you are our ally. Couldn’t you take him off our hands for us here across the pond? The grat majority of we Americans do not want Adolph — er I mean Donald over here any longer.
Leave Trump alone – we all have opinions and he has his.
Remember we have freedom of speech both in UK and US.
If the US voters don’t want him they won’t vote for him.
Trump is acting within the boundaries of US law.
Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 —
“Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.”
So it’s only freedom of speech when it’s the type of speech you seem to correct? At the end of the day more people didn’t sign the petition than did. I can’t help but feel there is a vindictive element to this petition. You didn’t stop his “ecological disaster” of a golf course, so we will have our round two with this petition. There are actual hate hate preachers in this country who publicly call for the destruction of Britain. Where is you petition for them? Seems that a rich white male oh and American makes an easier target for the socialist left leaning lunatics. I don’t agree with what Trump said, but I agree that he has a right to say what he thinks. If you don’t like it?…change the channel.
Trump is a disgusting racist. I hope the UK does pass a ban against him entering the country. The vast majority of Americans do not agree with anything he says and consider him a joke. There is no way this man will ever win the presidency. We only wish we could pass a bill throwing him out of America.
It’s about time that his true colours have finally been exposed for everyone to see, the man is a disgrace to the human race. Let’s just hope he gets exactly what he deserves. Also well done to the actions of the Abeedeen voice, and the petitioners for their part, bravo 🙂
Although I am not a follower of Mr Trump everyone who thinks they are somebody (narcissistic EGO lovers) will rule the day when he becomes President of the USA and ignores Britain and you will all rule the day with your open arms policy of flooding the UK with Muslims when more terrorist attacks/murdering happens in Britain for this is not if they start its only a matter of when they start – and don’t say I am speaking a load of rubbish and all the other feel good names you people use to describe someone who does not have your blinkered knowledge less views of life and the world – anyone with a modicum of sense and knowledge can understand any person who reads and follows the teachings of the Quran (The Muslim Holy Book)and says they are a Muslim are potential – I will leave you to fill in the blank just remember one thing its Muslims and not Christians that are causing at least 95% of all terrorism in the world today and the British Government are /will be unable to protect the British public from these attacks once they start O yes they will be able to clean up but not prevent up to now its been luck more than anything that has kept us safe but this luck is running thin
He is speaking out , what a lot of us are thinking. We are trying to protect our citizens, because our president isn’t. The news is picking out certain words & not the whole speach.
I have seen many post/news feeds, where the UK is having trouble from them refugees and all of their HATE comments, hand jesters to the camera & their demands. Maybe, just maybe…our leaders have put the rights of their citizens safety, 2nd to refugees , who do not respect the laws of their host countries and is going to be a strain on every ones economy. I watched many film clips of ALL MALE refugees coming into Europe….looked like an invasion, not people coming with their families, that need help. Then, when they were offered food, they threw it on the ground & demanded money. Crime rates are going up & the rapes are going though the roof.
And you have a petition to keep a man out…who just wants his country to be safe ? Take a serious look around, to see the big picture of what is really happening. The citizen’s safety of Europe & UK have to come first. That is the responsibility of the men/ women we vote into office…..hence Donald Trump’s passion.
A very proud AMERICAN.
Trump is IMO a narcissistic self-serving liar who says whatever he thinks will rile up a particular section of the ignorant uneducated american public. He taps into their fears and lies when he promises he has the answers. Trump knows nothing about foreign policy and security that much is very clear if you have 2 brain cells. And his economic pronouncements must embarrass and/or shame his alma mater the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.
Trump is a bully and a creep – beware if he says I love you – mexicans, women and black people, wives. [slightly edited – IMO added to the start]
Stuart has not got a clue about his constituents, let alone anything to do with energy, 6 months since he was elected still not had a decent reply from him, let alone any action or help. I live in a rural hard to heat home, low income, disabled, at risk and vulnerable!! bad enough? Add, no heating, no hot water and no insulation and 3 years of trying to get assistance, never mind smart meters, deal with important matters first.
There is a “huuuuuge” number of Americans who support banning Trump from the UK. The best we can do here in America is hope that the FBI adds him to their formal list of “hate groups” for monitoring. I’d like to thank my “cousins” in the UK for initiating this discussion regarding the ban. Good work! Trump is a “huuuuge” embarrassment to this country, so I feel the need to apologize for his existence.
People of UK have been misinformed on what Trump’s actual words were. Due to Earnest and Ryan not telling the whole truth! Listen to speech temporary stopping entrance in US just til our Government gets background checks in order is all he said just for safety. Its no different than Ryan trying to totally keep refugees out of US forever. Mr Trump is doing so well in polls in US they exaggerated what he said to try and make him fall in polls. That’s our government at work for you! They have to exaggerate to make someone look bad…
yes, it must be terribly difficult to make Mr Trump look bad. So – aside from his occasional sexist/racist/intolerant remarks, what did you think of the BBC Panorama programme seemingly linking him with organised crime?
I noticed a conspicous absence of front-page commentary from the P and J and Evening Express whilst national papers ran headlines about his xenophobic comments. These two local papers backed the man and were very biased in his favour in spite of his bullying behaviour and destruction of a site of special scientific interest. A man with his wealth could have built anywhere he wanted and landscaped it to his requirements, the original nature of those dunes didn’t even matter to their final configuration, I think he just wanted to fight, and to win, against environmental law and the will of the people who lived there. If you haven’t seen “You’ve been Trumped” I can recommend it as a very good film.
so very sorry not to have responded sooner; there are just one or two comments besides yours, and we’ve been slightly busy. In fact, the current petition is taking a wee bit of time. Why don’t you do your own petition? Oh, and at the risk of being repetitive, the petition was lodged before, not after the Muslim remarks. All the best
Good on ya Suzanne!, stop this IMO half witted moron, who is a fat, over indulged ugly twitt with fake hair. Said I would never stoop as low as he does, but then he appears to bring out the worst in everyone! It does appear he has damaged his own interests all over the World so one could say he is “self destructing” already. [moderated]
Suzanne, I am proud of you. You have been working hard for years uncovering -and fighting against – scandals in Aberdeen(shire), from so-called animal protection organisations which in reality sell animals for slaughter to the local College banning feminist artwork to Donald Trump treating the locals like dirt – whilst at the same time receiving an honorary degree from his pal at the Robert Gordon University ( RGU) – a highly controversial move by the university.
The former principal of RGU (bravely and rightly) handed back his own honorary doctorate at the time in protest against Trump receiving one. But you achieved what Dr David Kennedy unfortunately didn’t. With your petition you put enough pressure on the university for them to realise their serious error of judjement and as a result they stripped Donald Trump off this award. Well done.
As for the other petition, which asks to ban Trump from entering the UK, I agree with you that we don’t need misogynistic, mexicophobic, anti-disabled people here who act against the UK laws against spreading hate. His anti-muslim comments, which he has made after the launch of your petition, only add weight to the argument. But really the international media (and others who are now jumping on the bandwagon) should have pro-actively been condemning his behaviour. Thank you for giving them all a good kick up the arse! 🙂
I am totally against the proposal,I think it is all about platform decommissioning and heavy industry and I can’t see it happening without great disturbancs in the Torry area especially Victoria bridge and Victoria Road which is busy as it is , without the increase in traffic that will inevitably happen .As for cruise ships I think the given estimate is far larger than expected.I have been going around the bay of Nigg and Walkers Park since I was a child and would not like the proposed development to happen.
I /we are totally disgusted and sick to our stomach forever Complaining about the Stink that the sewage Factory is Causing (With no one accepting the Blame and No proper explanation answers to forever asked questions) ,This is going to be the first point that any future development work whether it is a New Harbour or whatever is /has been planed for the future of Torry and of course the Torry resident’s
Torry’s future Housing plan’s either Selling or Buying have/s fallen Sharply because of the sewage factory .granted that there is some sort of park BUT who wants to walk or play in that area? ..anyway ..
go to Duthie park/Seaton park ..NO smell there …I/we are not against the planning of the future of torry .
but we are against (all Torry residents) that I know of ..of the smell ..caused by the factory,,what about investigating how many new born children defects there are including Stillborn since the sewage company have opened ,,the air can not be healthy to breath ..what dangers are there ? caused by them …it is not safe for our people to go down to the Bay of Nigg ,So how on earth can it be safe to work down there or to make future plans ? I would like to be kept up to date/feedback on these matters concerned as would others ,and to see proof of investigation ,as there is nothing at the moment
Your website’s been accessed and vandalised a little. The site would’ve received and be receiving lots of hits while this anti prejudice petition (against Trump) is still live. When trying to access your home page to read more about Aberdeen Voice and see what the hame page offers, the screen just shows a repeated array of dots, dashes and other assorted keyboard symbols, hope you can sort this out as i’d like to read more of your webazine. Yours –
thanks for getting in touch. Our humble site end to do that if demand gets very high; we’ve had a tech person looking into this for months (Rob – you there ? 🙂 )
This is exactly what i had, which i mentioned in a message on facebook Suzanne. I think it could be something to do with windows vista and internet explorer 9. I don’t think windows vista can update explorer upwards of 9, And alot fo websites are withdrawing support for IE9. i managed to view this site using Google Chrome though 🙂
The more I think about it, the more I think the destruction and ‘plans’ the powers that be have for Torry, isn’t just an issue for the people if Torry, it’s an issue for the whole of Aberdeen, particularly if that incinerator gets the go ahead (some think both are linked)…. The fumes won’t just effect Torry, they will go all over the city. The people of Cove, Kincorth, Porthlen should also be consulted.
We’ll all need ‘direct buses’ to the hospital !
Luxury yachts landing next to a huge incinerator…..not happening.
This country is kowtowing to Muslims so much, even though it is obvious they hate our country and their biggest desire is to change it to meet their own needs. Politicians seem intent upon allowing them to do so, but even that is not good enough for them.
Then we get a very influential American politician, who obviously cares very deeply about his country, make a comment that he would like to, temporarily, stop more of them from entering the US. Dear Lord you would think he had killed someone, the hysterior from “certain individuals” is so incredible.There is nothing wrong with the statement, only the left, the media lovies, and Muslims themselves actually by into this impertinent pc bullshit.
As for dear old Suzanne, you are an insignificant little bum wipe, get over yourself…
Thank for your comment; I only wish it had come in sooner; could have used it a an example of sweeping xenophobia in my last Old Susannah column. Anyway. I am completely insignificant – on my own. But I’m not alone so it seems. Impertinent? To use a democratic tool? Disagree. ‘The Muslims?’ – who are THE Muslims. There are terrorists claiming to be Muslim, but there is no more such a thing as THE Muslims as there is THE Christians (well, ok there is the band The Christians) or indeed THE Left. I’m glad you think Trump cares deeply about his / my country. I kind of care for the people who have been caught up in financial turmoil when his companies have gone bankrupt, on several occasions. I wonder how deeply his concern is for the welfare of Atlantic City, but that’s another matter.
I’m only an amateur writer/journalist, but somehow I sense a connection to a presidential candidate saying Muslims should not be allowed in the US and the recent acts of arsons at mosques. Do you think hate speech is something anyone would bother with if they didn’t think their words would have impact? How long before someone is actually killed, I shudder to think? But to do absolutely nothing and watch as that man gets close to being Commander in Chief and having his finger on the button; I’d do anything legal to stand up against that.
‘Impertinent?’ bet on it, you bigoted, illogical twerp. – Suzanne
I /we are totally disgusted and sick to our stomach forever Complaining about the Stink that the sewage Factory is Causing (With no one accepting the Blame and No proper explanation answers to forever asked questions) ,This is going to be the first point that any future development work whether it is a New Harbour or whatever is /has been planed for the future of Torry and of course the Torry resident’s
Torry’s future Housing plan’s either Selling or Buying have/s fallen Sharply because of the sewage factory .granted that there is some sort of park BUT who wants to walk or play in that area? ..anyway ..
go to Duthie park/Seaton park ..NO smell there …I/we are not against the planning of the future of torry .
but we are against (all Torry residents) that I know of ..of the smell ..caused by the factory,,what about investigating how many new born children defects there are including Stillborn since the sewage company have opened ,,the air can not be healthy to breath ..what dangers are there ? caused by them …it is not safe for our people to go down to the Bay of Nigg ,So how on earth can it be safe to work down there or to make future plans ? I would like to be kept up to date/feedback on these matters concerned as would others ,and to see proof of investigation ,as there is nothing at the moment
Get crowd funding.Take this all the way to the highest court in the land.
Test out inherant rights of access and use of land.Who genuinely owns whatbland?
Take ‘Trumpism ‘to task.
Good wishes
If you was to get a petition started to sack them at Aberdeenshire planning for failing to make sure trump stuck to the plans then i would certainly sign that too 🙂
sure. Like the time he hinted he wanted an AK-47 to solve a problem (problem discussed was Aberdeen Voice?) And for those interested in the Northfield saga, as old as this particular article is, don’t worry: I’ve been a touch busy, but further analysis can’t be far away.
These people claim to want a democracy and free speech, well that means standing shoulder to shoulder with someone who’s comments so repulse you. That is free speech. I welcome Donald Trump
Some of ‘these people’ have watched with dismay as mosques have been vandalised and Muslims in parts of the US were attacked – following Trump’s inciteful, hateful prejudicial remarks. Does your concept of free speech allow someone to yell ‘FIRE’ in a crowded building? Freedoms all come with responsibilities. And yes, Trump’s comments repulse me. Lots. As well as most things about the man. Tally ho – Suzanne
;We know from our struggle to stop the fast link that stopping these so called developments is not easy as you are up against big money and even the government.We look at all the reports on how the environment will be protected and how local people will be effected to a minimum but the reality is far different,masses of lorrys noise, pollution in the burns and much more land destroyed than promised and more to come , as it stands we cant see that the estimated costs will be kept to but these figures are normally made to look better than they really are.All the best in your campaign. City’s have little enough spaces like Nigg without more being lost for ever and the local people gaining nothing.
Trump is the only hope for America. The country has become a Socialistic near bankrupt nation. We don’t want that anymore. I don’t know anyone who isn’t voting for him.
STOP PRESS – This evening the Trump organisation threatened to pull its investment out of Scotland if The Donald were to be banned UK entry. Here’s what I say to that – Suzanne
Donald Trump is a man that knows the cost of everything – well, a hugely inflated cost of everything – and the value of nothing. Let’s look at what he’s actually chosen to do today. He’s threatening Scotland once again as he did over the offshore windfarms that if he is barred from entering the UK, he’ll pull out of his Scottish Golf courses. The irony of a man who wants to ban Muslims from entering the US throwing a temper tantrum over being similarly banned himself is apparent to everyone except the tycoon himself.
Perhaps a man who is actually suitable presidential material might have done things differently – and instead of issuing hollow economic threats would have profusely apologised for painting all Muslims as terrorists who need to be monitored and kept out of America. As to the value of these investments, we were promised thousands of permanent jobs (although I believe many would be cleaning toilets and bedrooms). We were promised millions flowing into our economy every year. What is the reality? A man who’s stopped our experimental offshore wind farm programme thereby costing thousands of jobs and who has cost untold sums in fighting his court appeals, which finally failed. The course at Menie is thought to have lost £2 million last year. Jobs? Other than hiring Sarah Malone, wife of Aberdeen Journals Ltd’s Damian Bates, what permanent, desirable jobs have been created? How do the jobs created weigh against the jobs in the energy sector his appeals are costing? How does his investment compare to the cleaner energy we might be enjoying? For me, even if half of his figures stacked up – there is no amount of money that for me will ever undue the environmental damage at Menie. If our electors value money more than the rights of Muslims – and everyone else he has denigrated, then we may need new electors. Some might consider this to be blackmail on his part – and as such there’s more than a little deja vu along with it. Pull his investments? I should think he’s got no choice: who on earth will be playing at a Trump course now?
Here’s the results for Donald Trump and lies – https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=donald+trump+and+lies – enjoy perusing this ‘honest speaking man’s’ catalogue of exaggeration, mis statements, inaccuracies and some would say outright lies. But yes, you tell yourself he’s honest speaking. Which particular ‘honest’ statement of his do you particularly gel with? Would love to know
Think long and hard before you offend Mr. Trump and his supporters. He may well win the election and if he does there will be demands for retaliation against the UK. Suzanne Kelly would be well-advised to never set foot outside the UK again, at least not where we can get our hands on her. Americans have had just about enough guff from leftist Marxist morons in the UK and we may get it into our heads to rescue the Mother Country from the lunatics currently running it. We have vast cotton fields where the likes of Ms. Kelly can turn their hands to profitable labor.
Hello all; am approving this. And quite probably reporting it as a threat to the relevant people. Scary Trump supporters are out there. This is one. Thankfully, they usually show their true colours and intellectual prowess, and thus reassure me that I’m right
For a so-called journalist you have very poor grammar. I guess you’re UK educated. Or maybe, you are like other liberals who can only communicate in 140 characters or less eh?
so, you’re not much of a fan of free speech then 🙂 Don’t worry, you’ll have a chance to explain your position in depth very soon. Ps – are you in South America, or is that just where your IP is routed through? Ta
from reader Mark Gardiner: Well Mr bridges I would pint out SK is one of your own. New York born and bred. She’s one of your own and has every right to exercise her freedom of speech I believe your country is big on that. As for the threats it idiots like yourself who shame your country with these ignorant threats. DT is a big boy and I’m sure he will manage to shake off the criticism, idiots like you on the other scare the rest of the world because you could put that nut job in the white house.
from reader Mark Gardiner: Well Mr bridges I would pint out SK is one of your own. New York born and bred. She’s one of your own and has every right to exercise her freedom of speech I believe your country is big on that. As for the threats it idiots like yourself who shame your country with these ignorant threats. DT is a big boy and I’m sure he will manage to shake off the criticism, idiots like you on the other scare the rest of the world because you could put that (IMO) nut job in the white house.
What a pointless petition.This has nothing to do with what D T said in his speech ref a ban on -immigration until they know whats going on in the U S.
I think this lassie S K has a deeper issue with D T.
By jumping on the sensitive subject of ……..religion or culture call it what you will.
Setting a petition to ban someone for their views, after all it’s just one mans opinion. Could the same be directed at you S K ? Could the people that disagree with your point of view get you shipped out to a let say for argument sake, the warmer climes of Middle Eastern country as it seems your views obviously very strong and you will certainly not be bothered by D T.
Trump is not, in the context in which he said these despicable things ‘just a man’. He is asking to become one of the most powerful politicians in the world.
To get there, he is trading upon his record as a ‘successful businessman’. Our knowledge of him here is not of him as such. He has proven himself time and time again as a bully and braggart.
I wouldn’t let him run a tea shop , let alone a country.
Anything we can do to highlight this specimens enormities is a good deed – both fir the Menie residents and the good people of the USA.
If I was being (wrongly petitioned) banned from a country that I had invested money etc… I would be a Mug not to withdrew my investment and put it elsewhere.
For you to accuse me of a temper tantrum is plain stupid.
I think you are the one to have the hissie fit.
Lets say you had a house with beautiful furniture and you where told to leave the house as you were no longer a desirable resident, for whatever reason.
Would you leave your beautiful furniture in this house etc ….? Of course you wouldn’t.
So if D T wants to take his money he has every right to.
For you to try and score out of this by dressing it up as a tantrum. What does this make you.
He does not have to apologies to anyone for what he said in my opinion…. Get it ” my opinion”.
if DT wants to leave his Scotland investments, then fine. If the Menie Golf Course is truly a world-class course, then someone will buy it, and leave the overblown housing plans to moulder. If it’s not, then the dunes will reclaim it, as they rightfully should. The whole place was probably just a tax write-off for him anyway, seeing how little investment he made as compared to what he promised. As for world-famous, historic Turnberry, do you honestly think there’s NO OTHER billionaire in the whole world who wouldn’t buy Turnberry? Someone who’d buy it and remove the ‘Trump’ from ‘Trump Turnberry’ and turn it back into a prestigious establishment again. Trump’s got his name on far too many buildings and enterprises in this world. Scotland can survive being a Trump-free zone!
I do hope Andy g that you are never subject to such hate speech where you fear for the lives of your family and yourself because someone doesn’t like your skin colour, race or religion. I for one signed to ban DT as he is not the kind of man I want walking the streets of our country. I personally would love a world were such awful crimes don’t exist but unfortunately they do, having a man on a podium saying what he wants to do scares the life out of me. I commend Suzanne for all that she has done its about time someone stood up too DT and over 580 000 folk can’t all be deluded!
Someone has to stand up to the radicals Laura, look at the problems in Germany over new year and the mass slaughters in Paris last year, the left wing look the other way view isn’t going to make the problem go away, I’d suggest it has helped spread the problem.
Good on Mr Trump for not bowing to terrorists, unfettered immigration as allowed by Merkel is only making the problem more widespread, that Trump doesn’t want that happening to his own Country should be applauded.
Hello Gillian, I am not going to visit; thank you all the same. The animals that were shown in the photographs are definitely not there – because the photos of the Shetland ponies that were used in the appeals had nothing to do with Northfield, as proven. They did not need rehoming. Some are well homed in Wales; some are well homed in the Shetlands. Other animals NAH had shown in photos that were actually of animals on its working farm but shown on the charity appeals were likely put on dinner plates when sold at Thainstone. Other animals in photos that NAH appropriated without permission from the web are quite probably dead. Is it OK with you that someone raises lambs to be killed and uses the profits to ‘save’ other animals that they ask for donations for? Tell me how that works. PS – have you visited the people who were tricked out of thousands of pounds? They are still there – well, two sadly are not. They passed away. PS – if you are commenting on this article, it is presumed you read it and saw how photos which had absolutely nothing to do with Northfield were used by the for fundraising – is that fine with you? It’s not fine with the owners, some of whom are still thinking about legal action, as they have told me. What’s your take on that? Suzanne Kelly
PPS – congratulations ‘gillianstrachan82@hotmail.com’ you are the first ever email address that I’ve searched for on the internet without finding a single, solitary match. Did you just open an account my dear? It really is very uncommon. Either you just opened an account, or you have managed to hide your email address from the entire http://www….
What a ridiculous suggestion to ban Mr Trump the right to travel, reeks of personal agendas and no surprise to see who started the petition.
It really is ironic, Mr Trump suggested barring unknown Muslims from coming to the States and it is met by a response suggesting we do the same to him coming to our Country, can’t you see how illogical that is??
The authors hatred of Mr Trump is nothing more than a dummy spitting exercise imo, she was defeated over Menie and can’t move on from it.
Another liberal idiot posing as a journalist. What did you tell Bill O’Reilly? You’re an unpaid journalist. What does that make you? A liberal blogger with a weak opinion. You and your sorry a$$ supporters stay in the UK. The next time you need saving the USA should tell you to fvck off. If not for the USA saving the UK TWICE, you’d be speaking German…
If your belief that DT “hate” speech causes violence and for that he should be banned, then certainly you should be looking at any and all Imam’s who spew “hate” and, in essence, push their followers to the ISIS fight. You must admit that those imam’s speaking about challenging government policy’s in the name of Islamn can be construed by some as a call to become militant by joining ISIS. You can see the effect the Imam’s speech’s have. Surely you are smart enough to see that… With you acting as the speech police,judge and jury when it comes to identifying “hate” speech, I am sure dissident voices will be silenced and there will be no more Paris or Belgium tragedies.
I had the misfortune of hearing Suzanne’s psuedo-intelligence on display on U.S. TV this evening where she characterized Trump’s policies (many of which I do not support) as “hate speech” rather than policy statements with which she disagrees. This presumes Suzanne has some divine omnipotent knowledge of Trump’s deepest motives (and that he is lying since he attributes his statements to policy positions required by current circumstances), which I hope she will share with the world, as she could solve many of our most egregious problems.
The other alternative is that Suzanne is simply an arrogant and condescending person who presumes a divine ability to intuit motives, and further still, presumes to prejudge emotions (hate) from another person’s words policy statements (interesting how many Muslims and Hispanics Trump employs despite this “hate”).
Citing an alleged incident where someone was beaten in Boston while citing Trump’s immigrant policy statement, she characterizes this as Trump’s responsibility. I wonder if someone attacked Trump based on her hate speech about him (the examples are obvious based on her criteria) if she would surrender herself to authorities and claim responsibility?
In the post above mine she actually calls a commenter a “bigoted, illogical” twerp…gee Suzanne sounds like hate speech and someone who should be banned or exported so fewer are around to require some logical or deductive reasoning from you beyond just calling people names (you will note she does not cite or argue the policies based on any facts…she just knows they are prompted by “hate.”
Suzanne calling someone prejudiced, bigoted and illogical is a priceless example I can use as an example for students studying psychology (Jungian projection of shadow), that is the one benefit I gained from hearing her deep intellectual and tolerant speech firsthand,.
Ms. Kelly complains about Trump, yet it is the UK that is being overrun with the Sharia loving hoards. I think Ms.Kelly is wrong headed liberal that just loves finding another reason to hate the US.
In America, we have a very good rule, which is that one may say whatever one wishes, so
long as one’s words do not create a “clear & present” danger of violence or serious injury,
as when one falsely cries “fire!” in a crowded theater. In all other cases, Thomas Jefferson’s
dictum applies: that the proper corrective of vile or irresponsible speech is the antiseptic
effect of sunlight & fresh air. In other words, a thorough ventilation. AS to whether being in
HM realm is a privilege or not, my cousins in Cros Mhic Lionnáin might venture an opinion, to
which I would defer.
Alba abú!
Eoin MagRáighne
PS. A tip of the hat to Suzanne Kelly, a good Manx name!
Are you a USA citizen? If not, mind your own business. You have no idea what WE as Americans are dealing with immigration of Mexicans and OUR issues of Muslims and the problems we are having in oUR country!!! So shut your mouth and keep your opinion to yourself and in Scotland. Your a disgrace to journalism. We have freedom of spearheaded and freedom of policies here. You are the person spraining hate! You are the hater. Thank God you are not a hater journalist here… Stay in Scotland!!!
Greetings from America: In regards to Donald Trump and your petition to ban him from the United Kingdom. First of all let me say I think you may be confused, you claimed that Muslims are a “race” on The O’Reilly factor. A race of what? We currently have our own immigration issues and a government that chooses to enforce the laws they agree with. Trump called for a moratorium on Muslim immigration because we dont need or want the rape culture that now prevails in Germany and until we can properly “vet” these people, Its a good idea.
hi im one of the drill crew that was onboard for the discovery .and took part in making forty years of forties….rob (swede) lingard..retired toolpusher…
I guess Susanne Kelly has no idea Trump’s Mother was from Scotland. And also. why didnt someone start a petition when Obama said his grandmother showed ‘typical white behavior?’ he said this when he ran against Hilliary Clinton. Obama hates his white heritage as Hitler hated his Jewish heritage. Also, Obama insulted Christians at the National Prayer breakfast and never apologized. Kelly is targeting the wrong person as a hater. Trump said there will be a ‘golden doo for those who wish to enter the USa legally.” i guess Kelly completely missed this one. She is wrongfully trying to ruin Trump.
Sorry about the typo. i meant to say Trump said there will be a ‘golden door for those who wish to become a USA citizen legally.” Sorry about teh above typo error.
Although i do not believe Suzanne Kelly would EVER actually want to debate her views on immigration & race, she is publicly acting like she would love to have one, She is the first leftist to ever insinuate that they are not afraid of a debate, and i think she’s bluffing
SET UP AN ONLINE LIVE CHAT DEBATE – you name the time/format
hello, I think you will find me ready to debate the pros and cons of the two Trump-related petitions. 🙂 with a Trump spokesperson or the author of the pro Trump petition. Anytime 🙂
I recently discovered that DT’s mother comes from Tunga on the Isle of Leodhas & SK is
treating him as if he were a wee wee German lairdie. Shame, I say!
Pardon this descent into silliness, but I just remembered someone’s having mentioned the
name Mac Crocodile, at some point in the past. Just for the fun of it I’d like to know if any
reader can identify the said person and/or the context wherein his name occurs. Aficionados
of a certain type should know the answer. To give a clue- the name is somehow related to
the Scottish or Irish name: MacGuffin or McGuffin.
It’s a slow night, folks. Look, I take a dim view of a jock who is named after a fish. Although
the Old Irish word ‘eo’ [salmon] metaphorically can mean a ‘prince’ [v. The Voyage of Bran].
And of course, in Irish mythology, there is the Salmond of Knowledge, who knew everything.
How fishy _is_ Alex, by the way?
As a rule, I am generally disinclined to support the banning of individuals, no matter how abhorrent, inflammatory or deliberately provocative their views, not least because I believe everyone has a right to express their views freely and without fear of repercussion. I am, however, willing to make an exception when it comes to Donald Trump, on the basis of consistency, good taste, decency and my own shamelessly excessive and spiralling contempt for the man.
I would, however, given the erstwhile history of publicly requited love and admiration between Mr Trump and Alex Salmond and particularly at a time when Mr Salmond is using Aberdeen Voice to try and publicly distance himself from his former unscrupulous and disreputable racist billionaire of choice, be willing to support the call for a ban on Mr Trump if such a ban could be extended to include his ex golfing buddy, ex First Minister Alex Salmond MP, MSP, Shock Jock etc as well.
It was, of course, the bold Mr Salmond who championed Mr Trump, repeated his false assertions of thousands of jobs and untold riches for the North East, and held private meetings with him prior to the unprecedented Scottish Government decision to breach all planning law and legal protection in relation to an important area of our national heritage by calling in an application that had been properly, legally and democratically rejected by the relevant local authority.That the ex First Minister stood idly by as his emboldened and empowered favourite tycoon went on to ride roughshod over the rights and property of Mr Salmond’s own constituents does, in my humble opinion, suggest that Mr Salmond might be culpable in the nurturing of the apparent Trump megalomania and his ambition to become leader of the “Free World”
Were this not enough, searching questions are now being publicly asked in relation to alleged inconsistencies between Mr Salmond’s promise to donate the publicly funded salary and pension he receives for not being an MSP at Holyrood, to charity and the income and expenditure accounts of the promised beneficiary. Even were such allegations to be false, one can only conclude that Mr Salmond deserves to be banned for his hypocrisy alone.
I really would like to share your words Bruce Wood. This is one of the best responses I have read re the Trump debacle, and one which exposes the role of Salmond, who is, as ever, jumping on the bandwagon and will, in all probability, try to make out it was his idea in the first place to banTrump. He like the man he let loose on the Menie estate, is quite shameless in his assertions. There is one SNP devotee who near enough every day sings the praises on AV facebook page, of Salmond, despite being told and shown repeatedly how his hero has feet of clay, will not ever listen to reason. I shall probably quote one or two of your more choice phrases to him. I especially do like ……”given the erstwhile history of publicly requited love and admiration…….”
As a fully paid up member of the dogmatic Facebook Resistance movement, I am unaware of the individual you refer to or the sentiments he expresses. Feel free to share but, as you will already know, the myopia and denial of some of the more radical adherents to the nationalist cause can be extremely resistant to factual information and/or knowledge.
It is absurd to claim that the mere fact of allowing DT to cross the border implies some sort of
_association_ between DT & Scotland. Even Mr. Salmond would have to concede that allowing
someone to enter your country falls far short of an official endorsement of his or her views. Thus,
it is absurd to claim that the mere presence of DT in Scotland would be “damaging” to the land of
Roibert a Briuis. I fear that Mr. Salmond’s view is more likely related to the pusillanimous injunction which prevails in Europe nowadays: whatever you do, don’t draw a cartoon. Get the reference, folks?
Oddly, while I strongly oppose the antics of the Mannie Trump, I have not signed this Petition. His views are highly distasteful generally ,and particularly in relation to Muslims, Mexicans and the Disabled. However, has he crossed the line where admission to the UK is a threat to Public Order? By a narrow margin, I don’t think he has…yet. I am keen to see where Mr Gladwin – that name rings a bell somewhere, but I can’t be bothered finding out why – gets his support from. If nothing else, the Petition shows how inimical the Mannie Trum is to values of fairness and tolerance in this country. Irrespective of whether he or Cruz succeed, the Republican Party will find that is true for the bulk of USAShire too.
thanks – just in case you didn’t know, in August in Boston, a homeless Hispanic man was set to by two men with metal poles. They beat him; they broke his nose. The attack was unprovoked. The two men were arrested and told the police ‘Donald Trump is right – we have too many immigrants.’ Trump’s hatemongering is turning into acts of violence, there is no doubt. Under UK law, a ban is more than reasonable. – Suzanne Kelly
It is excruciatingly embarrassing, yet somehow deliciously amusing, to read of this spat between the former golfing buddies and good chums. Lest we forget, it was the Alex Salmond led Scottish Government which empowered and enabled the Donald to build his golf course in the exact spot demanded by The Specious One, to subsequently overcome legal and planning restrictions, to dismiss both local and national democracy as an irrelevance, to commit acts of vandalism, to abuse and breach the human rights of property owners in the immediate vicinity of his golf course, to routinely disregard local planning law, to instruct police officers to look the other way when property owners were forced to watch their properties being debased and their views and water supplies being illegally interrupted and, last but not least, to apparently ensure that journalists were arrested and detained for the heinous crime of investigating such legalised thuggery.
Now the same Alex Salmond, who falsely claimed to have legal advice on the EU membership rights of an independent Scotland, who falsely claimed that anyone who suggested that the price of oil might fall below $100 was “scaremongering” and whose lack of any economic or political justification for leaving the UK might suggest his lifelong ambition is founded on nothing more than race, denounces his erstwhile favourite billionaire as a racist.
Perhaps there is a difference between the xenophobic racism of Trump and what might possibly be termed the civic racism of Salmond and I would be delighted if Mr Salmond were to use his declared fondness for debate to define it?
Jeremy Corbyn is courting Trump because he thinks he will be investing here as Alex Salmond did. The difference is Alex Salmond now sees him for what he is, a bigot, racist, sexist. Why can Corbyn not see this and why do you not condemn Corbyn as you do Alex Salmond. And why not give Alex Salmond credit for his stance now. Corbyn invited Trump to London prior to todays debate, not much chance of him being banned from the UK then. Will he speak out in his favour, he certainly wont be voting to keep him out. If anyone is an embarrassment it is Corbyn.
I was unaware of Mr Corbyn’s overt support for Donald Trump and am similarly unaware of his involvement in the provision of articles, on the subject of Donald Trump, in Aberdeen Voice or anywhere else. I would be happy to respond in condemnation of Mr Corbyn,should he ever take the opportunity to do so.
Far from giving Alex Salmond credit for his rank hypocrisy and failure to acknowledge his own prominent role in promoting and propagating the Trump propaganda and false promises, i would further condemn him for his opportunistic and publicity seeking grandstanding on an issue which should both shame and haunt him.
Alex Salmond, in my own humble opinion, has lied and continues to lie, on a grand scale, to the people of Scotland, to further his doomed ideological obsession and to further inflate an ego, the enormity of which is totally at odds with his level of competence and credibility.
It appears that my most recent comments have been banned. So much for open dialogue &
free debate, eh? Even the preposterous David Cameron couldn’t stomach the bill of attainder
which SK proposed against DT. Good for him! Bye bye, Aberdeen Voice.
10 The Crown still owns around 50% of the 18,000 km length of Scotland’s foreshore (Fig.5). The foreshore is defined in Scots law as the area of shore between the high and low water marks of ordinary spring tides, and it forms the boundary between the marine and terrestrial halves of Scotland’s land area. The exceptions to the Crown’s ownership of the foreshore are of two main types. Firstly, there is no Crown foreshore in the Northern Isles under udal tenure, where ownership of the foreshore goes with the ownership of the adjoining land. Secondly, there are the many parts of the rest of Scotland’s foreshore that have been acquired from the Crown by other land owners, much of it in the 19th century.
Come come now, the owner of the Bates Motel was inclined to wear strange headgear, talk to or about his mother a lot and interrupt the water supplies of unsuspecting individuals, albeit only when they were taking a shower.
Your account of one of your hikes once took me to the top of Kerloch – I felt I was climbing with you the stone-strewn path through the trees. Now, I’m sitting down beside you in contemplation, and I am moved by the beauty of your poetry.
Oil was never the ‘be all or end all’ for an Independent Scotland may I firstly say folks-we can and could always do better as an Independent Country and I still believe that firmly. Great read,and very informative..the only thing I would disagree with within which I have read is within this article is the comparison between Westminster and the Scottish parliament..how on earth could they control Westminster plans without Full control over,in this case-oil? As Stan describes above,it is exactly the same in most towns and cities within Scotland and it’s heartbreaking to know that we could have put an end to Scotland constantly being short changed via Independence. We will Always be in this situ folks..unless We as a nation change that once and for all..have many friends in Aberdeen,lived in the central belt.the east neuk of Fife and back(currently in North Lanarkshire where you wouldn’t believe the hardship amongst folk)..next time maybe? Certainly hope so..
Aberdeen city council are useless dunderheads, union street looks like a dump, full of crap, like the council, the bridge of Dee bridge in the middle of dual carriageways is a disgrace forcing trucks to drive around town. They wasted the all taxes for years, down the drain on what?? The bypass is twenty years too late. Idiots. They should be sacked, not to mention the planners, they should be the first cuts.k
Hopefully you’ll be so passionate when it comes to seeing hate preachers already in our Country kicked out, or perhaps stopping Isil supporters from returning here.
The one sided attack has became ever so tiring imo, you don’t like him, we get it.
Bill … errr sorry, George Smith …. yep, that’s right … if you could be bothered to read responses to your comments you would be aware that we rumbled your new identity some time ago ( you really need to change your IP address … Oh sorry, it was your work computer .. sorry).
It is no surprise you defend Trump – you are not averse yourself to spouting sexist, racist remarks online which has been raised here already. We cant kick such people out of the country George, but we can at least ditch them from our own pages so when it comes to banning hate speech, you might need to take care what you wish for or you might be well ahead of the queue.
What’s that? not in the queue? … Oh … of course … you’re already banned … run along now and crow to yer fitba forum chums …. bye bye.
Aw gee whiz Fred, you said if he came back I could keep him, at least for a while. I miss his intellect, his incisive grasp of situations, his ability to entertain two sides of an argument. My usual discussions with him run like this:
George: You’re all a bunch of leftists and Aberdeen Voice pushes a leftist agenda. You don’t speak for me.
Me: George, we print what we get – why don’t you write an article about your well-rounded, educated views?
George: Don’t wanna
Me: Then you can’t really complain we’re not printing articles that suit you. We do print your comments.
George: Er.
I miss all that. I’m sure he’ll return. I hope he watches the Channel 4 programme on Trump tomorrow night. George is sad that I attack powerful people rather than tugging my forelock at them. If he still feels that way after watching this programme tomorrow, that’ll tell me all I need to know about him – Suzanne
The Devil wears Prada or a whiter than white shirt. But that still makes that ruthless individual Trump still the biggest bag of dangerous shirt without the r to touch Scottish soil in a long while.
No wonder he is scared of ‘terrorists’. He should also be scared of non terrorists. I wonder how much it costs him every day to buy yes sayers and corrupt folk…God or Allah or whatever help America -and us- if he should win the election. Still keeping faith in the American (wo)man on the streets…keep up the good work, Suzanne. I would dearly like to sign your petition to keep him out of the UK, Europe -in fact pledge for shooting him to some desolate planet where the sage locals could take good care of him. Let him try build his golf courses there!
Best regards,
Sigi (in Germany)
And the citizens of Aberdeen have lost an important recreational resource (many more people are interested in walking, jogging, and sunbathing than play golf.
Quote: ‘Had Mr Trump been a more reasonable individual, a golf course could have been built at Menie without touching the Site of Special Scientific Interest or adversely affecting his neighbours.’
How reasonable were the majority of Aberdeenshire Councillors who pushed to allow planning permission?
3 local landfill sites and an open cast quarry which have done more to ruin and “vandalise” the area than a golf course ever will. No Press comment on them. The councillors should be so proud approving those!
Would you mind explaining how many of these landfill sites and quarries were created on sites of special scientific interest, on which all development was forbidden by the highest possible level of legal protection preventing the lawful approval by local councils, how many were rejected by local councils only to be “called in” by the Scottish Government prior to the developer receiving written notification of refusal, thereby rendering the “calling in” process unlawful, how many included false guarantees of billion dollar investments and thousands of jobs, such promises being made by both the developer and Scottish Government, how many led to the deliberate vandalism and harassment of neighbouring residents, how many saw the arrest and detention of investigative journalists at the apparent behest of the developer……
I could go on but would be happy if you could possibly address these small points for the purpose of justifying your analogy.
Please exciuse my clumsy language Alan. To clarify, the “calling in” would have been rendered unlawful had the developer received written notification of rejection prior to the Scottish Government decision to “call it in”.
It is my opinion, and the opinion of most neutral and informed observers, that the Scottish Government, following a meeting between Alex Salmond and Donald Trump on the Sunday following the inevitable rejection, knew they had to move quickly as the only way they could intervene legally, on behalf of Mr Trump, would be to announce the “calling in” prior to Mr Trump receiving such written notification, in other words immediately.
So one further question: Do you know any other potential developers who have been granted a personal audience with a First Minister, followed by the overt and vocal support of the First Minister and Scottish Government?
This is CBD oil only, and not cannabis oil. CBD is only one of the cannabinoids found in Cannabis, but you are certainly misleading people by telling them that “Cannabis oil is now legal in the United Kingdom”. That is not something that you should be doing. Many illnesses need both THC and CBD to be effective and you should not be advertising in this way.
This is the same tactics that oil scammers use by suggesting that they are supplying cannabis oil when they are not.
From Suzanne Kelly: I see what you’re saying – but as far as implying there are misleading tactics about the THC not being in the oil – did you get as far as the third paragraph: “It is up to anyone with an illness to make the decision to use cannabis oil themselves and/or with their medical practitioner. The THC in cannabis, which results in the ‘high’, is removed from medical cannabis oil products.” -(I could change it to read “‘these’ cannabis oil products” instead of “medical cannabis oil products” – but that’s rather splitting hairs as the THC issue has been spelled out. Additionally, the UK’s media have used the phrase ‘cannabis oil’ in a huge amount of articles heralding the legalistion of the oil – https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cannabis+oil+legal+in+uk – if this article, spelling out as it does that THC is not in the oil is misleading for reporting that ‘cannabis oil is now legal in the UK’ – then you have a few dozen other newspapers you should write to as well. It may not contain THC, but it is still oil made from cannabis, which to all intents and purposes is cannabis oil (I’m reminded of a horticultural class lesson – all cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are cacti – in case that helps). All that’s going on here is that three people are trying to raise funds, 100% of which are going on cannabis oil / cbd oil if you prefer for people who can’t afford it, but who know that they benefit from using oil. (In fact, a good deal of the costs have come from my own pocket so far; but demand is growing more than I can afford on my own). There are people out there who are greatly benefitting from what we’re doing, and we’re going to continue. But thanks for your comment. So if you’re saying cannabis oil isn’t really cannabis oil if it doesn’t have THC in it, we’ll agree to disagree; CBD oil is a type of cannabis oil.
It would appear that no one does hypocrisy and a complete lack of self – awareness quite like Christian Allard.
Hot on the heels of Mr Allard lecturing us on “racism” as a proud member of a political party which sought to bankrupt an entire nation on no economic or political basis but simply because they don’t like English people, Mr Allard now issues his latest diatribe against the UK Government on the subject of democracy, despite himself and his party continuing to agitate for their ideological and, some might say, racist goal less than eighteen months after seeing it democratically rejected by a substantial majority.
Were this not enough to potentially condemn Mr Allard to the status of eternal laughing stock, he forgets to mention that he and his party decided to withhold the right to vote, in the 2014 Referendum, from Scots who lived, temporarily or otherwise, and worked in other parts of the UK, and engineered a vote for schoolchildren because they thought such young and impressionable individuals might be gullible enough to vote for their non – existent cause.
Fortunately for the nation, our youngsters were not as daft as Mr Allard and his colleagues had hoped.
I find your comment inaccurate, and frankly disgraceful. The electorate in the 2014 referendum consisted of those people who lived in Scotland. It was not selected by race as per your suggestion (Scots living abroad) but consisted of only those people who chose to work and live in Scotland. It is you, sir, who is playing the race card.The extension of the franchise to 16 and 17 year olds was a triumph. Engaging young people in the democratic process is surely essential to our future as a democracy. They did vote slightly in favour to end our dependency but that is hardly the point – it is they who will spend longest in captivity and it is surely their voice that needs to be heard the loudest. Like all those who seek to end the charade of the British Imperial state I am not anti-English, but certainly do seek to end the British State and liberate not just my fellow Scots, but all of those living under the yoke of a state that exists to perpetuate the privileges of the few over the rights of the many.
Oh dear, I believe you have exemplified all of the denial, delusion, dictatorial dogma, prejudice, pretence, revisionism and racism of nationalists the world over within one single paragraph.
The historic British imperialism you speak of included the actions of Scots, who provided the most enthusiastic and valuable contribution, particularly in the fields of military occupation, policing, administration and slave supervision/ownership. Indeed it is the case that Scotland benefitted and profited more from slavery than any other area of the United Kingdom.
The failure of anyone, within the SNP or the wider nationalist movement, to provide a rational economic or geo – political case for separation from the rest of the United Kingdom, leaves one to search in vain for any other explanation for the ideological basis which forms the raison d’être of the SNP, other than the sort of racism and prejudice which might appear to lead you to believe that you live in “captivity” and that Scotland is an oppressed colony of England.
To get back to the nationalist hypocrisy of Mr Allard, I would be interested to hear his thoughts on the nationalist aspirations of La Corse et Bretagne but suspect I am to be deprived of his musings on such issues.
My daughter and I went for a walk yesterday along the Ythan estuary, and I wanted to see it going into the sea, but you can imagine our surprise when we turned the corner and my daughter said she saw a seal in the water, and I said look over there, and here were hundreds of them on the river bank! None of us knew about the seals until yesterday, and it was the most gorgeous thing to see, and it made our day. What spoilt it was this couple, who went so close to them, they scared away a good lot of them, and we spoke loud enough for them to hear we were annoyed, so the woman eventually came to the bank and sat down up from us a bit, waiting for the man, and they could see we were annoyed at them, and decided to do it again, they went right over with their backs to them taking a selfie, so close to them that they all started to move again, it was so sad to see, and they knew perfectly well what they were doing, the kept looking at us and laughing. Something really needs to be done, it’s such a precious sight to see all that on our doorstep and it’s a shame idiots feel the need to ruin it for the rest of us and the seals.
My how the mighty have fallen. It seems like only yesterday that Alex Salmond was urging us to join the “Arc of Prosperity” as he described the then”tiger economies” of Ireland and Iceland just before they went bust, whilst holding up his erstwhile best friend – Fred Goodwin as the man to inspire us. Now he is urging us to embrace the “corridor of prosperity” between Inverness and Aberdeen, presumably to enable Highlanders to benefit from the thousands of non – existent job opportunities he promised would be created by another of his former best friends – Donald Trump on the Menie Estate.
From world domination to extending platforms at Inverurie Station. What’s not to laugh at?
I’ve always despised Donald Trump, from the first time I saw his horrible reality show. I watched a couple of episodes and couldn’t stomach any more. I was very moved by the documentary You’ve Been Trumped. Moved by the community and enraged and sickened by him and his puppets.
Now that he’s running for President of the US I don’t think anybody can do enough to expose him. There’s nothing funny or benign about him. He’s dangerous. Frankly I think he belongs in a mental hospital.
I think the work you’ve done is utterly brilliant. I loved signing the petition and thrilled at how much support it got and what it’s achieved so far. It’s an ongoing David and Goliath story. With apologies to Goliath.
Having returned to Aberdeen after living abroad I was shocked and saddened to see what the City Centre and Union street has become. We can have no faith in the years of Aberdeen City councillors that have allowed this to happen, do they ever walk or drive down Union Street? As for the sporting facilities provided for the children of Aberdeen both the Council and the many people who have made millions out of Aberdeen should be ashamed, in Spain where I lived every small village has asto turf football pitches and tennis courts which are the heart of their communities, these facilities are provided by cash strapped councils who prioritise their youth and communities. For a city like Aberdeen there is no investment in our youth by providing decent facilities for children to enjoy sport or to promote a sense of community which is sadly lacking in Aberdeen. Aberdeen is a centre of excellence with our oil industry knowledge but why does it feel like a back water city that nobody cares about. Give us a council that wants to work with the like of Sir Ian Wood who wants to give Aberdeen something back.
As someone of simple pleasures, I have, for some time, looked forward to enjoying my coffee on a Friday morning, whilst reading the excellent investigative journalism and informative output in Aberdeen Voice. More recently, this excellent use of my leisure time has been further enhanced by the hilarious comedy on offer, courtesy of the cant, pomposity and hypocrisy, but most of all the unerring certainty of local politicians as they inflict their populist rhetoric on unsuspecting citizens.
This week we have a whole host of them basking in the moral certainty of unilateralism by claiming they don’t like nuclear weapons, as if there were nuclear fan clubs up and down the country, continent and western world. As all but the most feeble – minded are aware, no one really thinks nuclear weapons are a good thing, with the possible exception of the North Korean government, a handful of influential and fanatical Islamists in Iran and possibly Vladimir Putin. But how to get rid of them?
For those possessed of special powers of foresight and a degree of moral and intellectual certainty normally reserved for the most deranged conspiracy theorists and terminally paranoid, the answer is obvious – simply get rid of the nuclear weapons in the UK and the world will become a safer place as others rush to follow our example. Or is that really what they think?
All of the elected or ex politicians quoted above are in favour of maintaining the defence of the United Kingdom by remaining in NATO, an organisation which has a large – scale nuclear deterrent at the heart of it’s entire strategy. It is clear, therefore, that these politicians either do believe that nuclear weapons are an efficient deterrent, protection and guarantor of relative peace but don’t want the UK to contribute financially, are brazen hypocrites, or are perhaps incapable of understanding this clear contradiction.
Perhaps they could consider clarifying their position by stating whether or not they are in favour of unilateral nuclear disarmament on the part of the USA and whether or not they believe this would lead to Russia, China, North Korea and Iran following such a fine example and abandoning their nuclear weapons and programs?
Who needs nuclear weapons when we have the intellectual might and far – reaching influence of Kevin Stewart and Kirsty Blackman to protect us after all?
Having given further consideration to the above contributions, I believe the comments of Kevin Stewart MSP, in particular, merit further attention.
By highlighting the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Mr Stewart reminds us of what can happen when only one side is in possession of such awful weapons, a position he appears to want to return to, only with the UK and, perhaps other NATO members, or ex NATO members, the ones left to ponder the potential consequences of refusing to surrender to an enemy force.
Not content with adopting such an arguably disingenuous position, Mr Stewart invites further potential accusations of dishonesty by claiming the cost of Trident renewal to be £167 billion. What the apparently feckless MSP fails to point out or understand is that the cost of Trident renewal is estimated to be only £31 billion at most and that the rest is made up of a series of assumptions of UK Government defence spending and percentage spend on nuclear, over the anticipated lifetime of Trident through to 2060 and includes the assumed £15 billion cost of decommissioning. This equates to an annual spend on the UK independent nuclear deterrent of less than £3 billion per annum, or only £9 billion per annum less than the projected and universally accepted annual deficit in Scotland were Mr Stewart to achieve his ambition of separating Scotland from the United Kingdom and only around eight times more than the now annual Scottish Government underspend.
One wonders why present – day politicians are held in such low esteem?!
I was puking for 3 months and eventually was puking up blood and was in pain. I caught an ambulance to the er where they accused me of being a druggie while the nurses sat outside my room gossiping and laughing about me before I was admitted for nearly a week.. I’ve also been yelled at for puking in the er. They told me I wasn’t even trying not to. Last time they asked why I have cvs and got irritated when I told them which medication works and which does not work for me. I usually just go after episodes are bad for a week or longer and I really need iv fluid because I hate going, so much. My veins collapse, blow, roll, etc from dehydration. I end up with giant bruises and multiple pokes. My body has actually pushed my iv out of my arm and rejected it from shutting down according to the nurse. There are so many stories and I refuse to talk about pain because I try to avoid the drug seeker remarks although they still accuse me almost every single time.
Has anyone considered starting a “boycott Pralhad Kohli” facebook page? He makes his living in Aberdeen & a lot of it is through word of mouth. What is sauce for the goose…
Thought I was the only one but found that when it came to the bay of nigg I suddenly became the many more than happy to support your beliefs still drying the tears from your words which are all true and heartbreaking when will people see the destruction that is happening in front of our eyes and put a stop to it let the councillors, MSPs and MP s know we have had enough pollution kills
Hi Betty lyons thanks for your words of support and its good to know that there are people who understand and really care All the best,I am keeping an eye on the Nigg situation is it worth spending more on infrastructure that will make Aberdeen a less pleasant, place to live who gains,developers
There was a better, less expensive option for an Aberdeen bypass (involving a cut-and-cover road under the existing one along the beach and a couple of tunnels under rivers) but it was rejected because the primary objective was to please developers by opening up a wave of new building opportunities all round the route, the idea being that hordes of people from elsewhere will be desperate to move to our part of the country to take advantage of the decline in the oil industry and the massive loss of jobs.
Most people don’t know the countryside that’s being torn up and therefore don’t care about it, but I’ve spent decades cycling round all the little backroads and know exactly how much of it is going to have its atmosphere ruined, and while I find that depressing, it’s the people living near the route that I feel for as what have always been peaceful places soon be suffering from a continual roar of traffic going the long way round the city. All of the change is aimed at a future that will not come: most jobs will vanish soon (not just here, but everywhere) and people will be keen to move away from the cities in search of more peaceful places to live in. We are seeing one of the last gasps of the old era in which we allow our environment to be trashed in the name of progress, and soon we’ll have to start undoing it all so that future generations can try to turn this part of the world back into one that’s worth existing in instead of a concrete hell.
Hi David We told the government and local authority what they already know but developers have had the last say more urban sprawl even as far as Laurencekirk(at least 300 houses) and how does that make life easier for people.We are misusing technology destroying the planet and carrying on as though it is not a problem.What are the City council going to do with the money from the city deal more infrastructure lets hope it cycle routes through the city we can but hope.Thanks for your support and understanding and I agree we are at the end of an era and it just takes more people to really care and we can turn the earth into a garden again with all its diversity of life.
I think Tony Cockroach – raconteur, bon vivant and friend to the stars – should get his own column to enlighten the people of Aberdeen of the lives of the rich, famous and talentless. Obviously, due to his heavy schedule of wining and dining, ligging and inappropriately touching famous people, a ghost writer would have to be employed to be at his beck and call.
I would predict that the North Sea offshore oil industry will be unlikely to revive.
To add to the points Mr Shepherd made in ‘part 1’ of his series of articles, there has always been a massive supply of cheaply produced oil. Despite this the price of oil rose much higher than its productive cost because the US and then European oil, car, and arms corporations made sure the world economies became heavily dependent on oil. This resulted in crises when the supply was interrupted in 1973 by the Yom Kippur War and on 1979 by the Iranian Revolution.
The need to obtain more control over oil supply and the perception of a limit to supply (i.e. peak oil) led to the encouragement by governments and corporations to seek out and exploit reserves outside the low cost productive fields of the Middle East and Venezuela, resulting in more costly extraction from more marginal and difficult environments. The high cost of oil funded this.
To encourage and maintain continual investment in oil, the oil corporations had to maintain the confidence of investors by demonstrating there was continual scope for supply and future growth, further encouraging the move to marginal fields.
The exploitation in the extreme North Sea environment gave rise to the technologies and skills of the North East for exploitation in marginal offshore locations throughout the globe.
This expertise is now rapidly becoming redundant as there is becoming less need, and less investment for exploiting the expensive marginal fields.
The existing glut in oil supply has now been increased by the expanding oil fields across America and by previous sanctioned and disrupted suppliers coming back on to the market (Iran, Iraq).
Oil producing countries dependent on oil revenue such as USSR, Venezuela, Nigeria need to put greater volumes on the market to support their economies no matter how low the price.
Now with threat of climate change is becoming ever more understood and accepted – (global warming deniers are now a more threatened species than polar bears).
There is now a trend to divest, for ethical reasons, from oil by universities, churches, local governments etc.
On the financial spectrum, more clued up investment managers are noticing the decline in oil company dividends, and realising that a third of existing resources can’t be burned,are looking to move away from potentially stranded assets.
Unfortunately for North East Scotland, but fortunately for the future of the planet, the trend appears to point to a continual decline in oil as the means of powering the global economy.
Suzanne Kelly: This article contains a link to a yola site with the full report I wrote: https://aberdeenvoice.com/2011/12/tullos-hill-report-issued-by-meadow-campaigner/ . The yola site link is: http://suzannekelly.yolasite.com/ . Scroll down (hopefully read some of the documents) past the Executive Summary, and you will find the soil report by Forest Research, an arm of the Forestry Commission. The promise of a forest on Tullos, as per the initial public consultation, is unlikely. “It is noteworthy that the establishment of large mature trees on many parts of Tullos Hill is unlikely.” the report reads. The weeds are not controlled; we are spraying pesticides, there is no decent soil matrix to support tree roots; we’ve spent tens of thousands of pounds of public money when we could have had a meadow with deer if we’d done nothing at all. Despite costing the taxpayer £43,800 for the past failure, ACC told the public they would get a forest (they didn’t say in the consultation they would decimate the existing deer population to plant trees unlikely to grow this forest – which they knew well). No forest, no deer, we do have a nice collection of weeds where once we had gorse (food and home for wildlife). The public’s objections were overruled (STV found 80% polled were against the scheme; some 3,000 people signed a petition to halt the scheme), and yet consultant Chris Piper walks away with a sum not far off £100,000 for recommending we go ahead with this scheme. Glad you are interested.
I believe there is only one country in the Middle East which is a fully functioning democracy and is surrounded on all sides by extremely hostile enemies, most of whom still refuse to accept the right of that country to exist and all of whom would gladly participate in it’s destruction and/or who have, in the past, embarked on military action with the intention of driving it’s entire population “into the Mediterranean”.
Yeah.. The fully democratic country that killed 504 children and injured 3,436 children, of whom 10% suffered permanent disability in less than two months (as perHuman Rights).
You either don’t know much or changing obvious facts. The Israeli government is the one who wishes that the entire Palestinian population would sink into the medetatanean as the Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin Said in 1992, “I wish I could wake up one day and find that Gaza has sunk into the sea.” And they’re working brutaly on it.
I wondered how long it might take for me to be accused of ignorance or dishonesty, on the basis that my views on Israel are contrary to the intellectually inexplicable revisionist orthodoxy which currently prevails.
One suspects you must have had to work extremely hard to not only find a quote, but then to stretch it so far out of context, from of all people, a man who lost his life as a result of his commitment to peace and who was rightfully awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, in order to maintain your apparent adherence to a distortion of history and reality which, in my view, can not be explained by mere ignorance alone.
I would humbly and respectfully suggest to you that the election of a terrorist organisation dedicated to the destruction of a neighbouring State, the refusal to accept the right of that State to exist, the continuous and deliberate bombing of civilian areas within that State, from missile launchers deliberately sited near schools, and the use of civilians as “human shields” in the event of eventual retaliation, may not really be the best way to ensure the safety of one’s children.
Now that we have engaged in an exchange of views, would you mind explaining which part of my initial comment you consider to be inaccurate, leading to your depiction of me as either ignorant or dishonest?
In 1975 I invented the Apache. In 1980 I directed the deveopment of the Multi-Purpose Semi-Submersible with the assistance of W S Atkins, Glasgow University’ Prof Douglas Faulkner and Dr Atilla Incecik. In the past year we have promoted the Novel Extended Semi-Submersible, Nessie, for removing topsides and jackets in single lifts. This is an extension of Ernest Cox salving of the German Hifgh Seas fleet in 1924.
If the UK supports Nessie thousands of jobs will be created, including an active refurbishing, resale and relocation industry.
As we all know there is an enormous gulf, Death Valley, that the UK has repeatedly failed to cross. As Sir John Parker (formerly Harland and Wolff) said, “we can build cheaper but we cannot sell cheaper”. How is this to be solved?
Hello Bruce,
There wasn’t a need to work ‘extremely hard’ to write the quote. It would ring a bell, to anyone who knows a bit about the conflict, when reading what you wrote about the ‘hostil enemies’ who are trying to drive the entire Israeli population into the sea. While it was said by an Israeli official.
And yes it’s ironic and sad that this very person is a noble prize winner for peace, while he was responsible of the killing of thousands of civilians in the first intifada and his soldiers broke the bones of hundreds, where he got the ‘bone crusher ‘ name.
To answer your question, I believe that for a person to support the Israeli’s government has to either not know much about the conflict or be turning a blind eye on it.
Im of course against firing missiles to civilian areas near schools. But let’s look at the facts. How many Israeli were killed by those missiles in the last big series of missiles launched against Israel in 2014? 8 Israeli.
How many Palestinians killed by the Israeli army as a reaction? 2300 civilians. Do I need to comment?!
Please don’t tell me about the human shield stories! The Israeli army is the only party IMO using human shields (many times children). An example is what’s the Haartez themselves published where Israeli soldiers were convicted on using a child as human shield.
It’s difficult, for a simple person like myself, to know where to start, when faced with the task of publicly disagreeing with your overwhelmingly superior knowledge and wisdom. That said, I’m going to give it a go anyway:
As someone of your undoubted subject knowledge will be aware, there has never been an independent state in the territories referred to by some as “Palestine” other than the State of Israel, and there has never been an independent Palestinian State anywhere. Indeed, following the forced expulsion of the Jews, by the Romans, the territory was occupied and ruled predominantly and successively by the forces of Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman Empires, not to mention the Syrians, Egyptians and others, prior to the British Mandate following the end of the First World War. At no time throughout this period was there ever any notion or idea of Palestinian statehood. This was confirmed by Arab commentators during deliberations leading to the establishment of the State of Israel by the United Nations(UN) in 1948, although some of these commentators would much later go on to change their position and become prominent members of the so called Palestinian Liberation Organisation in 1964.
Of course, the refusal of many of the “Palestinian” inhabitants of the new State of Israel and the refusal of neighbouring countries to accept the presence of a Jewish State led to the large – scale attempted annihilation of the Jewish citizens of Israel in 1948, 1967 and 1973, with never – ending and widely acknowledged terrorist attacks throughout this period, and which continue to this day. Fortunately for the people of Israel, their defence forces prevailed and the prospect of a second 20th Century holocaust was prevented.
That Yitzhak Rabin played a prominent and heroic part in defending his fellow citizens, including peace – loving Arabs, during these conflicts and went on to pursue a peace settlement with those who had sought to destroy Israel, thereby setting a fine example for Ariel Sharon to follow with his unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, surely merits more positive recognition than you are willing to concede.
One of the downsides of refusing to accept the existence of a nation State and maintaing continuous military and terrorist attacks upon such States, particularly when such a State has some experience of surviving attempted destruction and is forced to be eternally vigilant, is the prospect of a spectacular black of “success” and inevitable retaliation. I believe there is a debate to be had in relation to the proportionality of such retaliation but would respectfully suggest, particularly given your intellectual pre – eminence, that the skill, ingenuity and sophistication of the Israeli defence capability and vigilance of Israeli civilians are responsible for the prevention of comparable numbers of civilian casualties in Israel, rather than the proclaimed moral superiority of those who launch missiles at them on a daily basis.
I would like to go on Mulham but sadly have work to do. I look forward with enthusiasm to your next tutorial and to reading your detailed critique of my original comments which, as you have said but failed to demonstrate, do not stand up to scrutiny.
Just one question before I go Mulham: Do you accept the right of the State of Israel to exist or not?
The love – hate relationship between the Scottish Government, it’s publicly funded quangos and Donald Trump continues unabated. As the publicly funded VisitScotland seems to act as a full – time promoter of Trump’s business interests in Scotland and Trump’s widely publicised official “partnership” with the publicly owned Prestwick Airport appears to consist of the massive loss making operation providing free parking for Trump’s private jet and helicopter, not to mention free publicity, is it any wonder that The Donald loves to say “Yes” to such generosity whilst the Scottish Government just hates to say “No” when he comes calling.
There can be no doubt, in my view, that the Scottish Government, and former First Minister Alex Salmond in particular, acted dishonestly and without scruple, in enabling Trump to overcome Scottish law and established democratic process, in order to build his golf resort at Menie. Now we see the Scottish Government condemn Trump publicly whilst providing public funds, from the hard pressed Scottish tax payer, to boost the business interests of Trump in Scotland. It might even be argued, particularly given the VisitScotland statements of the unique importance of the numbers of visitors to Trump resorts to the Scottish tourist industry, that the Scottish tax payers, courtesy of the Scottish Government, are helping to provide funds for Trump’s campaign of hate and ignorance as he seeks to become the next President of the United States.
Perhaps we can take some solace in the promise of First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, to turn Prestwick Airport into the first UK spaceport, leading to her government’s favourite billionaire bigot finding a new parking lot for his private aircraft somewhere in another galaxy.
Every time I reply on a specific point you mention, you deviate and move to another, instead of replying back.
I didn’t give a tutorial in my previous post but it was you who gave a lecture.
I can of course waste another 4 lines being sarcastic, in a try to be funny. But I’d rather write facts.
As for your last jump:
Yes, there wasn’t an independent state called Palestine, because it has a long sad history of brutal occupations and invasions, the worst is the Israeli one. But how is that relevant?!
The land has always been inhabited by Palestinians since they started to be called so. So the fact that there was always someone stealing their land doesn’t give the right for another to do so.
If the UN is your reference, then the UN Partition Plan and General Assembly Resolution 181 of 1947 did indeed declare an “Arab state” and a “Jewish state” in Palestine.
However, it did so based on the population distribution at the time. It did not define a “Jewish” state so that Jews from all over the world would continue to migrate taking over Palestinian’s homes and lands, increasing the population from 600,000 to over 6,000,000 now.
Over 77 resolutions were declared by the UN against Israel, one of them is 242 in 1967 where it stated that Israel should withdraw it’s army from the recent ‘occupation’ at that time. That of course or any of the other 76 resolutions weren’t respected. We’re not talking here about an organisation like Hamas that is recognised as a terrorist organisation by the western governments, but a government of a state.
Now I’ll go back further in history since you mentioned the expulsion of the Jews.
The Jews were expelled from Palestine in 70 AC. But when did they enter Palastine in the first place?
As you probably know the Jews invaded what we call now Palestine in 1125 BC.
So the Jews lived in Palestine for 1200 years, but they were outside Palestine for a much longer period of 1900 years.
I can see that, just like any argument of this type, it’s not going anywhere.
So will end it by answering your question.
Israel didn’t have the right to be created. Israel exists through a biblical statement, Balfour’s illegitimate declaration, a promise of a land he didn’t own, by facilitation of another occupier of the land, and tens of thousands of dead bodies of rightfully Palestinian original land owners.
Having said that, there is now a new Israeli generation who was born there and haven’t committed a crime or had a choice of being there on someone else’s land. So those people should have the right to live peacefully side by side by the Palestinians, only when the Palestinians rights, land and basic humanitarian needs are respected by the Israelis.
I believe the US of A is the only country in the world founded on
the natural rights of man [&, to the low info. voters, that means women,
too]. I believe that even the French constitution conforms to the general theory
that you aint got no rights but what the Gummint says you got. The
American view is that Nature’s God [ooh, that sounds suspiciously like
religion!] has conferred certain rights upon all us rational beings & moreover
that state of affairs is fixed & immutable. One of those natural rights is
the right of self defense, both against local criminals, foreign interlopers
[remember 1776?], & one’s own government, should it become despotic. That
natural right is recognized, but not created, by the 2nd Amendment to the
US Constitution. The stupid & irresponsible actions of a dummkopf mother do
not & cannot eclipse that right. Pace, S. Kelly.
the right to have a defensive armed militia is a different thing to what has evolved. Funny, the right to ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ has really gone by the wayside in many areas, with the US’s police forces turning into reckless, profiteering violent thuggery in many documented cases, while people are incarcerated for minor misdemeanours (or unjustly jailed) are forced to work as veritable slave labour producing goods that can be made cheaply and sold for profit. You don’t even have the right to grow certain kinds of plants any more without expecting a police dawn raid and your children being taken into care. The whole country needs an overhaul – including gun laws. Goodness knows who our next president will be, let’s hope it’s not a profiteering, opportunist, racist bigot – Suzanne Kelly
I thought all Americans, other than those natives who inhabited “The Americas” prior to the arrival of Columbus, Cortez et al, were “foreign interlopers”. I know this may be a ridiculous, albeit historically accurate, observation to make but then you started it.
Incidentally, why would one assume the need to defend one’s self against another on the basis of their country or continent of origin?
Hi, Suzanne & Bruce. Ganging up on me, eh? Alas, I start many a donnybrook. Re:
your point- well, of course, you’re right. Americans stole the land from the Indians, as
England stole the land of my ancestors from the Irish, etc. Moreover, justice has never
been done to the American Indians & that is plainly wrong. Also, the Kingdom of Hawaii
was blatantly stolen by Americans. I think a restoration of Hawaiian sovereignty is
feasible &, if native Hawaiians want independence they should get it. Ditto for Puerto
Rico, Guam, the North Marianas Islands, Pago Pago, et al. I am four-square for freedom
& justice. And I have the heart of a raparee, one of those Irish Jacobite “outlaws” who harassed the English after the Treaty of Limerick. 2 MagRaighne’s were hanged as
raparees in 1725, by the way. And an ancestor on my mother’s side was the Fenian
chief in Buffalo NY when, in the wake of the American Civil War, the Fenians invaded
Canada. [1866? 7?] So write me down as a congenital rebel.
As for the American Indians, they have been shabbily treated throughout American
history, but I think it would be unfeasible to give the whole country back to them. However, an attempt should be made to give them their due. Justice is vital in this
context, as always.
As to Suzanne’s anti-American diatribe, I must confess that parts of it are quite true.
The Power Elites worship the Almighty Dollar & corruption is endemic, at all levels.
And strongly entrenched. The Speaker of the NY State House of Representatives &
the Majority leader of the NY State Senate were both found guilty of corruption late
last year and will be sentenced to long terms of imprisonment on April 13- I wonder if
that’s a Friday. That’s only the tip of the iceberg. Money talks, BS walks- that’s the
unofficial motto of contemporary America. I think Ben Franklin or someone of that sort
said that the US Constitution was intended for a virtuous people; although ordinary
Americans are reasonably decent people, the power elites are woefully deficient in
that respect- as a rule.
Beyond all that, the government is increasingly eroding my freedom. Civil rights
attorney Harvey Silvergate & law prof Alan Dershowitz have written a book, which
says that there are so many Federal laws & regulations [with the force of laws] that
the average American commits about 3 felonies per day, without even knowing it.
So, increasingly, if the government wants to suppress a dissident, it can almost
certainly bring the hapless citizen up on one charge or another. Truly a marvelous
form of social control.
The statistics on the killing of blacks by policemen are unclear, do to bad record
keeping, but every police homicide should be fairly judged. The Policeman is generally
friend, but rotten apples should be crucified, in my opinion. As to the charge of slave
labor in the US of A, well Suzanne, you must be thinking of the conditions in which
many illegal aliens must work, under the tutelage of Mexican gang enforcers. Of course,
American business owners have been known to exploit illegal, as well. In my opinion,
such people should be jailed- the business execs, that is. Illegals should be given their
due, but every reasonable mitigation should be given to them, as most are just decent
people looking to get out of the Hell hole that Mexico has become, due to the power
& pervasiveness of the drug gangs.
In my last paragraph, I typed ‘do’ instead of ‘due’. My digits sometimes get ahead of
my brain. This was one such case. May the Gods of Lexicography forgive me.
Bruce, I don’t quite get the meaning of your question. I do support just war, which must
be fought for a good cause & with a rightful intention. My ancestors had the right, for example, to defend themselves against Strongbow & the Norman knights, back in AD 1169. Had they come as tourists, we could have given them a bowl of stir-about. And
sold them a kilt.
Suzanne, I’ll reply to your other points later, as I don’t have
the time, at present. Regarding the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution,
it says, “a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a
free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed.” The meaning of the term ‘militia’, as known to those
who wrote & ratified the US Bill of Rights, is set forth in District of
Columbia vs. Heller [US Supreme Court, 2008], as follows,
“the ‘militia’ comprised all males physically capable of acting
in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that
the Federal Government would disarm the people in order
to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army
or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress
power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms,
so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.”
Just to “clue” you into my political views, I am sending this encapsulated
version thereof.
The foundation of my politics is Cicero’s famous dictum: true law is right reason in
conformity with nature. In other words, I recognize no law as legitimate which is either
contrary to reason or to human nature. Nor do I recognize any obligation as binding on me,
which I do not freely take upon myself. I believe that people should follow Roman jurist
Ulpian’s 3 precepts of true law, as punctiliously as they can: to live uprightly; not to
harm another; and to give everyone his or her due. I believe we should lessen human suffering,
when & to the extent that we can- always remembering that every human being is made in
the image & likeness of God.
With that as background, I’ll try to answer your indictment of America.
By Henry II’s Assize of Arms [1181] all knights, free laymen, and townsmen
in England were to be armed; this was the beginning of the English militia or
‘train bands’. In 1659, General Monk invaded England from Scotland & commenced
the liberation of both countries from the Puritan Commonwealth; Monk started
the war, but it was English train bands which guaranteed victory. Prior to that,
in 1630, the Massachusetts Bay Colony’s General Court [or legislature] had
promulgated a law requiring all males from 16 to 60 [excepting only clergymen
& magistrates] to arm themselves. There was even a provision to arm indigents!
It was against this background that the American Constitutional Convention
did its work. If Americans wish to be disarmed by the government, then all they
have to do is to amend the Constitution. Oh, yes- they could also repeal the
first Amendment, as people should not be offended by speech which they dislike.
The US Attorney General recently admitted before Congress that her department
was looking for ways to prosecute global warming skeptics. Don’t worry, though.
They’re from the Government & they’re here to help you. By the way, there’s a
great flick that satirically punctures Government, particularly of the custodial
liberal sort: “The Monitors”. It’s about a nanny-state run amok. The tag-line
being- trust The Monitors; The Monitors are here to help you.
And it’s six miles from Bangor to Donaghadee. Or is it?
I’m flattered that you consider me suitable to be a gang member, given my distinct lack of street cred – I don’t even have a tattoo for goodness sake! Can’t speak for Suzanne as though I’ve never met her and it might seem tasteless to ask “do ya wanna be in my gang” ?
Nevertheless, just because you’re not paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you and you are perhaps right to be wary.
Thanks for the entertainment Eoin and Bon weekend.
Well, the dialogue is the important thing. During the recent troubles in The Six
Counties, an Orangeman & I conceived the idea of a no-man’s-land pub, where
one’s weapons were taken at the door & one could say whatever he or she wanted,
so long as St. Thomas Aquinas’s precept was maintained: that one should employ
only so much acrimony as was necessary to correct a sinner. Given reason & good
will on both sides, I think most human conflicts can be settled amicably. Or, at least,
with no massive effusion of blood. There is too much cruelty in the world & war
is extremely cruel; even when justified.
I expect I’ll visit Aberdeen, one of these days. I remember an old song, which says-
“The Northern lights of Aberdeen mean home-sweet-home to me. … [.]” If you’ve got
a no-man’s-land pub in the district, maybe we can have a pint or two together & some “craic”, as the Irish say.
Re: Interlopers, my dictionary traces the word to the 1630’s, with the meaning “self-
interested intruder”. In which case, I suppose I’m guilty. It’s part of my charm, I’ve
always thought.
A basic message here is that if you don’t stand up for yourself as they did in The Northern Isles and Norway you get walked all over and left with nothing and worse with negative equity.
A strong message for Scotland too.
There’s to be an announcement tomorrow about London’s Crossrail 2.
Hooray!
This guy is an unbelievable creep/tosser (very polite version). I think my punk thing may be to wait outside his house and egg him for Easter….Christian values are called for. I suppose that’s what you learn from never being poor. Well, we’ve got a Government full of people like him. Knox is one of the most decent people I know and he would think I’m being mean, but I’ll say it anyway- BOO to you, Little Lord Snooty. Yours Sincerely, Ginny
I had to resfresh my memory of the Sex Pistols, The Ueber-Punkers. Dare I call them seminal?Their “oeuvre” really was garbage, like rap & most contemporary muzak. There was a time when
rock had some class. Round about the 14th century- surely not later. Johnny Rotten. Now, doesn’t
that say it all? Rotten was a rotter & all of his ilk. Oh for the days of Lord Eatingham-on-Rye & some
good old-fashioned hard-baroque oratorio by Handel. And, hóigh, this is Alba- why not a pibroch?
Could you handle it?
Seriously, soaks- I mean ‘folks’, contemporary kultchah is the pits, but still I do think it’s an excellent
point that rich miscreants should not destroy stuff which others can use. There’s a very old principle,
which Cicero mentions in connection with the virtue of benignity: that one should not withhold from
another what it costs him or her nothing to give. Cicero cites the example of someone with a lit torch
who offers to relight the torch a man whose own has lost its fire. That’s a good principle which should
be honored, even by dummkopfs like what’s-his-face.
In fact, there is some rock music I like. A little. Danny & the Juniors doing “Rock & Roll is here to
stay”- it was; they weren’t. The Beach Boys- “Surfin’ USA”. Gary Numan “Cars”. A-ha doing “Take
On Me”. Devo. Incredible String Band- rock of a sort. The Stones- “Sittin’ On The Fence”, “Street
Fighting Man”, “Honky-Tonk Woman”. Only one Beatles song I really liked, “Norwegian Wood”.
The Grateful Dead, “Uncle John’s Band”. Linda Ronstadt’s version of the Smokey Robinson song
“The Tracks of my Tears”. The Hollies, “Carrie Anne”. Karen Carpenter, “Top of the World”- very
sad her fate. Jennifer Warnes, “The Right Time of the Night”. Johnny Rivers, “Secret Agent Man”.
Jan & Dean, “Dead Man’s Curve”. Nervous Norvos, “Transfusion”. Jefferson Airplane, “We Can Be
Together”. When I was a young guy, that was our anthem; I was a leftist, of course, & the song
pretty much said it all for me & my mob. If anyone doesn’t know it, check it out on YouTube. The
Rascals doin’ “People Got To Be Free”- another anthem of my youth. Van Morrison, “Brown-eyed
Girl” & “Tupelo Honey” [“She’s as sweet as Tupelo honey, she’s an angel of the first degree”.
I forgot to mention that my 2 favorite Incredible String Band songs are “Everything’s Fine Right Now”
& “My Painting Box”. I haven’t reminisced this way for quite a while. Oh, yes- Joanie Mitchell, “Big
Yellow Taxi”; excellent version by Counting Crows. Oh, yes- a short-lived Montréal outfit called
Men Without Hats had a great song called “Pop Goes The World”.
If only I could go back in time & correct my stupid mistakes & enjoy the small pleasures of life in those
days. Didn’t Joanie say that something’s lost but something’s gained, from living every day? Yep!
She got that right.
By the way, when I said I had been a leftist in those days, I really was a libertarian. I still am.
And I am very partial to Irish poet Breandan O Beachain, who said, “I have a total irreverence for
anything connected with society except that which makes the roads safer, the beer stronger, the
food cheaper and the old men and old women warmer in the winter and happier in the summer.”
Show me a political party with that program & I’ll join it in a heartbeat.
Well they will have to fix the water treatment smell before the supposed cruise ships dock and those well heeled tourists embark. Where will all the traffic go?
And dont forge the planned incenerator at tullos!
Taking away a much loved green space that many many people use is just so sad.
Who will benefit from this project? Not torry thats for sure!
In who’s bank account will the money and vast profits end up!
There is nothing for the youth and children growing up and the schools are fit to bursting with the wave of economic migrants and thats a fact.
Profits of £1 billion per year!! none of which will be spent on social aspects of torry and its citizens.
Thank you kindly – Suzanne. I hope though that after Donald Trump’s column launches on Monday in the P&J that you won’t switch alliance to him and forget Old Susannah.
I fear I must chide you, for being far too lenient, tolerant and reluctant to apply an appropriate level of opprobrium to the most grotesque piece of legislation ever to be considered by the Scottish Parliament.
This appalling scheme is not supported by parents, is not supported by Health Visitors and is not supported by the people of Scotland. Indeed, the only person who appears to support the scheme is Nicola Sturgeon, as she flounders around trying, as usual, to be all things to all Scotsmen/women.
The Named Person Scheme is mandatory and will ensure that a Named Person will be assigned to every young person in Scotland, whether the parents wish to “engage” or not. The Named Person will be obliged to note and notify the authorities of the most trivial concern, not least for fear that inaction may lead to them facing censure, or worse, in the future.
Named Persons will be assigned to seventeen year olds, who may have children of their own and may even share the same Named Person as their offspring. Named Persons will be assigned to young people, under the age of eighteen, serving in the armed forces, though who this might be remains unclear.
This is an appalling attack on our human rights and an object lesson in how elected dictatorships can resort to crass stupidity, and should be resisted by all.
On a brighter note, I suspect this may be Nicola Sturgeon’s Poll Tax and that this, along with the various high – profile allegations of sleaze, fraud, theft, bullying, mortgage fraud, fiddling of expenses, cronyism and racism currently engulfing the Scottish Government, might lead voters to remove the face – paint and apply some logic when exercising their democratic right to vote.
Great work Suzanne and may your God or Named Person bless you!
Suzanne says – agreed! The very idea of this legislation shows what kind of megalomaniacal power-hungry people are making laws. If I had a child, I’d leave Scotland, or at least resist. I do hope there will be lots of resistance to this Orwellian diktat. The State is answerable to us – children must never be conditioned to think they are answerable to it.
The Scottish Government, in my opinion, now effectively exercise political control over the Police, the Civil Service and all areas of publicly funded institutions, including all quangos and much of what is now referred to as the Third Sector. IMO They have bullied and intimidated large sections of the mainstream media into silence and have shamelessly courted the most unsavoury individuals and regimes, including the flapping of their collective undergarments in the air, like Snuffy Ivy* after a few too many in the Criterion, in an attempt to woo the most despicable, such as Donald Trump and the Qatari Government.
The manner in which so many Scots are willing to accept this, as a perceived antidote to imaginary injustice and oppression, at the hands of the dastardly “English”, makes me a tad angry, as you might have already guessed.
* I apologise for any offence caused to any surviving friends or relatives of the legend that was Snuffy Ivy. She was a fine lady and I mean no disrespect in using her name to make my point.
We have children, and we are leaving Scotland. We’re not alone. We’ll be going as soon as humanly possible.
There’s a bigger picture here. Yes, it’s important to prevent the NP from rolling out, and very important to get it stopped. But the minds that came up with it are still in charge, they’re still planning all sorts of other grosteque things, like a central ID database using NHS records. And if they can come up with NP, what else will they come up with? They’ve already silenced dissent within the party itself. I find the whole thing more than a little scary & surreal. And what’s most surreal is that a huge number of my fellow Scots appear to have gone stark, staring mad; not only do they trust the government, they trust the government to do what’s ‘best’.
The SNP are not offering independence. Not by anyones stretch of the imagination. They’re offering North Korea. On a plate. And those so obssessed with independence they can’t see beyond it are lapping it up.
Superb piece as ever, Suzanne. I am fervently hoping that what you said about Trump’s forthcoming column in our esteemed local press was a belated April Fool…
Suzanne says – Thanks very much. I guess Trump’s got to find a new income stream as he’s unlikely to get the presidential job. Have read 7 out of 10 Americans polled say that they can’t stand him. Alas! The column is very real. Expect more about it after it debuts on Monday.
Given that the P&J has a limit on the number of free articles one can read, I doubt I’ll be reading The Donald’s output, nor buying the actual newspaper. I trust we can count on you to keep us informed – you do such a sterling job, thank you.
Suzanne responds: I guess if someone wants unbiased, professional, enthralling groundbreaking writing and investigative journalism like the P&J offers, it’s only fair to pay for the privilege. But if you search the internet for a news item or a column you want, under the actual result, there is a line that reads ‘cached’ ending in an arrow. Hit that link / the arrow and you will see the item your heart desires, in this case on Monday the Trump column. And it’s free. But yes, I can’t wait to read the musings of a US presidential hopeful who has found time to launch a column in Aberdeen. Am a bit disappointed; I’d been gearing up to approach the P&J and beg them for a paying job as a columnist. I’m sure they would have hired me, but looks like I’m too late.
Suzanne says – and that’s part of the problem. She says one thing; the people organising it say it is mandatory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHyAqeKY7O0 If they can’t even work that out, then why are they rolling it out. I’m no fan of the Press & Journal, but today it reports the cost to Aberdeen City Council will be c. £2 million (sounds conservative to me). Just. Say. No.
It is mandatory. There is no opt out and, as stated by the QC hired by Nicola Sturgeon to defend the appeal in the Supreme Court, there would be absolutely no point in such legislation were there to be an opt out or if the scheme were to be voluntary.
Nicola Sturgeon, in my humble opinion, is, as usual, talking out of both sides of her mouth at the same time. She says there is no obligation for parents to “engage” with the Named Person, but concedes there will be a Named Person assigned to every young person in Scotland, come what may, unless the current appeal is successful.
Like Dorothy Bothwell, I find it staggering that there is such little vocal opposition to this. I was, however, similarly taken aback at the lack of public awareness during the early days of the ill – fated Poll Tax initiative, a move which effectively ended the political career of a rather over – bearing female politician with a penchant for screeching, expensive designer suits and intolerance of dissent.
Hello there! I could have sworn I’ve been to this site before but
after reading through some of the post I realized it’s new to me.
Nonetheless, I’m definitely happy I found it and I’ll be bookmarking and checking back frequently!
Bit late, but I got his last night from a friend in Seattle
I have a pretty good idea whose woods these are, believe me.
And let me tell you something, my people say he’s a complete nobody.
This guy lives in the village. So what if he sees me stopping here?
I dare him to sue me! I dare him!
And by the way, this snow is pathetic.
These are by far, the least downy flakes ever!
I hear they had to import them from Canada.
I don’t know. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn’t. We’re looking into it.
My horse – he’s the most incredible horse, seriously,
I have the greatest, the classiest horses –
My horse doesn’t even know what the hell we’re doing here.
The horses love me though. They do.
They’re always shaking their bells at me, it’s very loving.
It’s a beautiful thing.
Let me tell you something, these woods are an embarrassment.
They’re not dark. They’re not deep. They’re nothing. They’re for losers.
And I cannot wait to sue this guy.
I cannot wait to sue this guy.
Don’t know who wrote it, but it might cheer folk up a bit
As ever, such refreshing comments by Bruce Wood – if refreshing is the word. As a head teacher (retired) I have such concerns about this legislation. There are systems in place to protect children already. These do need to be looked at again, but there is no way on this earth that what is being put in place will protect vulnerable children any more than they are ‘protected’ at the moment. I am surprised at the lack of debate on this issue, both in the media and on FB, as many people seem to be taking it at face value, which is always a danger. I have been involved nearly all of my teaching career with children who are vulnerable, and this misguided initiative is certainly not the answer.
As a regular Visitor to Cruden Bay and its environs, a Visitor/Heritage Centre strategically sited would be boon to the area, although just how that might contribute to the Trustee’s estimated £2.4 million redevelopment of Port Erroll Harbour is not immediately clear to see. The Centre might be better placed beside the shop on the right of the road into Port Erroll, perhaps even providing the shop with updated premises to lease with the footfall from the Heritage Centre helping to offset any additional rent the new premises might warrant. With respect to the Conservation Status of Port Erroll itself I think that is warranted and would be counter productive to consider its removal
Suzanne says – thank you Susan. Am quite disappointed that the P&J’s exclusive new columnist hasn’t found time to write a second column; perhaps his priority is to embarrass grandmothers who answer a call of nature in sand dunes near him. Then again, having announced that he won Scotland over, perhaps he’s little left to say.
This can only be good news for wildlife and the environment. I planted 5000 mixed native species over 5 acres thirty years ago and the transformation has been amazing with many more birds, badgers, foxes and deer. It was a challenge protecting each tree from rabbits and deer but they are established and thriving now. Initially I did lose about 1000 to rabbits and deer but I plant more each year.
I always remember reading about the children of Fred and Rosemary West who grew up believing that their very harsh environment was normal. Rosemary always had the youngsters turned out immaculately and they were given notes for excuses not to attend PE classes due their bruising. In the end a persistent police officer uncovered the awful crimes their parents had committed.
The Baby P case elicited a failure of all the agencies who did not work together or share information and their individual concerns regarding his environment.
There are instances where young Asian girls have been taken suddenly out of school to another country which raises concerns about forced marriages. I feel that the GIRFEC scheme will save youngsters like these. They are very precious. GIRFEC provides a joint way of looking after and identifying our most vulnerable children.
From Suzanne Kelly: High profile failures of systems that were stretched because of too much work and/or red tape is what you are referring to. The GIRFEC pilot scheme of the Named Person scheme has already seen – per the article you comment on – a woman approved a Named Person who had shared violent fantasies about children online and is now struck off. Your GIRFEC scheme fondness overlooks the fact that this woman managed to slip through the nets and would have been asking children sexual activity questions. High profile cases you cite are thankfully extremely rare. How on earth will treating all children as if they are answerable to the state – or to that woman who thankfully was caught – solve anything? Collecting more data will only make it harder to find the needle in the haystack. Teaching children their parents are subject to state control over their family life is Orwellian, wrong, and against basic human rights and freedoms. This ill thought out, expensive, intrusive, potentially psychologically damaging scheme is in no way a logical, fair, sensible, workable answer to the number of children that fit the Baby P bill or the West Family’s horrors. Sorry, but you are quite wrong.
nice article made me want to find out more about an very interesting and talented man. Intriguing that his diaries remain unavailable until 2040.Thanks for the article
Cheers John. Peter took a complex path but there is nothing “dark” about the diary issue – just family sensibilities. I will be telling a bit more in about the Doune Kirkyard funeral in my June Leopard column – but not too much. Glad you enjoyed the piece.
There are times when even an incurably self – opinionated chatterbox, such as myself, is almost rendered speechless, by being subjected to the most astonishing level of open – mouthed disbelief since….well since yesterday I suppose, when Ken Livingstone described Adolf Hitler as a “Zionist” or perhaps the day before when I learned that Nicola Sturgeon had decided there are no boys or girls or men or women any more, but simply various points on a “gender spectrum” not necessarily pre – determined by genes, but developed by social conditioning.
But no, it was neither of these events which almost achieved what my friends and family have been trying to do for so many years, but this latest SNP offering in Aberdeen Voice
Were any SNP MSP to be introduced as a champion of business, at a time when they are causing so much uncertainty for business, with their constitutional obsession, doubling of Business Rates and implying, but not confirming, that taxes will rise further in the next five years, it would be surely be greeted by uncontrollable laughter. Dennis Robertson, however, is the very business – friendly Aberdeenshire MSP, who, on 5th January 2016, with tens of thousands of jobs being lost in the North East, oil trading at around $30 per barrel, and families wondering how they would get by, claimed:
“There is no crisis…We have the most skilled workforce in the North Sea and it is booming”
“BOOMING”
With friends of business like Dennis Robertson MSP, we might need to get fracking after all.
I’m up there regularly and can confirm I’ve not seen a deer there in a very long time. It’s not all bad with regards to wildlife – I see quite a few birds of prey (buzzard, kestrel and owls) which would indicate there must be a reasonable amount of activity further down the food chain. I’m ok too with the tree planting not thriving at this location (though as you point out it’s a ridiculous waste), if it were successful it’d obscure one of the best views over Aberdeen there is.
Suzanne says – thanks for the observation. One of the likely reasons there are more birds of prey is the sad state of affairs at nearby Loirston Loch. Once a sign proclaimed that area should never be developed; it’s being developed now, displacing all sorts of animals (a short eared owl used to be there, but seems to have moved away for instance).
I’ve not been to Loirston Loch in a while, I didn’t realise they’d started development there, I’ll have to go out and have a look before it’s obliterated – unfortunately another entry in my growing list of places in Aberdeenshire to visit before they’re wiped out by developers
It’s so very sad to see the Gramps looking like this, I have lots of happy memories of walks up there when I was young. It was a beautiful place full of trees bushes and wildlife, a place we used to love to hang out with our pals. Went up for a walk last year and couldn’t believe that they have torn it apart it’s such a shame, it was a place of natural beauty which has now been lost.
I don’t know the site or the particular situation, but you clearly have a passion for wildlife.
A shame then that you repeatedly refer to “weeds” & claim that they have killed the trees. This is clearly nonsense. Weeds as you call them are just wild plants & have every right to be there. They do not kill trees.
As for Gorse & Deer, both will be back when all this is done. Neither are endangered in any sense of the word. Both need control if they are not to dominate at the expense of other biodiversity.
Suzanne says – good point about the word ‘weeds’ – I should have made it clear that the word is used by the Council, the experts, and the Forestry Commission (Personally I consider that every plant has value). The Forestry Commission used the word ‘weeds’ as to why the first planting – costing the taxpayer £43,800 — failed (weeds and deer). They demanded the city undertook weeding as part of the go ahead for this current phase we’re in. How exactly will this herd of deer re-establish, especially under the SNH guidelines? There’s nothing for them to shelter in, there will be no forest, and the plants they ate are largely wiped out in this mess that is here now.
All the best with the re- opening Karen. I will be popping in as soon as I’m home again.
For anyone who has yet to enjoy the pleasure of informal dining at the Brown Sugar, I cannot recommend it highly enough.
Excellent food, with all dietary requirements catered for and extremely friendly and helpful staff, make the Brown Sugar a must for anyone visiting Upper Deeside.
Aaaargh!
Having worked somewhere this was piloted it is nothing more than an update to what any decent school/council should have had in place. Are the acronyms annoying – yes, but they are designed to help people working with children identify areas of concern and start discussions about next steps. Common sense and professional judgement will be used every step along the way (as it always has) but GIRFEC and SHANARRI are updates to educationally required child protection guidelines to protect the countries most vulnerable children.
Suzanne says ‘AArgh!’ right back at you. If you’d care to address the points the article brings up, great (did you read the piece?). Common sense and professional judgement – like the woman who sailed through the NP training and is now struck off for her paedophile fantasies? Sure. FYI I’ve talked to people who’ve been on the other end of the pilot scheme who aren’t as thrilled as you are. Here’s an interesting debate http://no2np.org/bbc-question-time-named-person-scheme-strange-says-dimbleby/ . It boils down to state control over all families. If you’re happy with that great. There are a great many people out here who prefer their freedom and rights of the individual. The ‘head gardener’ description given to the NPs when explained to children – doesn’t that tell the children that their parents are secondary. Cost to Aberdeen city is thought to be £2 million a year.
As the son of two teachers (one of them a guidance teacher) I would like to think that the NP role will be filled with people possessing these qualities in abundance.
Sadly, as the father of a child with additional support needs, I find them to be severely lacking.
Our son has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers. This makes his behaviour challenging at times, making it all the more necessary for parents and school to work in partnership.
However, his first headteacher (identified prematurely as his Named Person on one of the GIRFEC forms) ascribed his difficulties to “lack of parental consequences” (I fail to see how not punishing a child sufficiently could lead to them having fixations and literal thinking…) and placed a huge added strain on our relationship with our son as we dealt with not only his behaviour, but the ignorant condemnation arising from it. Her attitude was ignorant, judgemental, patronising, smug and self-righteous.. and I’ll stop before I reach the darker end of my vocabulary.
And this was the person who would be responsible for our son’s “wellbeing”… I note the school were recently participating in “Autism Awareness Week” – I hope the head teacher learned something.
Another participant in the “Staged Intervention” meetings (beautifully described by one comment I’ve seen as “Six people telling you how rotten your kid is, but they’re there to help”) was the Educational Psychologist. I’m not sure if she had children herself, or had ever actually met any real children… at one point when there seemed like the vague hope of her actually getting involved, she said “That would be an interesting wee research project for me!”. I’m glad she found our family’s mental health such fertile ground…
I should say, that amongst the “professionals” we’ve met there are those who will say “I’ve been there” or “My son gets a taxi to school” or “I know what it’s like to get the phone-calls [from school]” which is a tremendous reassurance that the person you are dealing with will have some insight and wisdom.
Regarding the whole “GrrrFeck!” (as we have come to think of it) and SHANARRI stuff… I find it extremely offensive that there is one process which is used for intervention regardless of whether it is for protection concerns, or because your child has, for example, a neuro-biological condition. The original poster perpetuates that conflation.
But, back to the named person scheme.
In contrast to our relationship with our son’s first Head Teacher, the one we had with his Health Visitor was extremely helpful. She was (and is) someone we could trust and rely upon for advice and referrals (e.g. to CAMHS – Oh- the waiting list is 6 months already, if there is to be a huge increase arising from the NP scheme)
However, the NP scheme will undermine this sort of relationship with a trusted professional, requiring them to conduct multiple hour-long interrogations on such matters as family finance! That isn’t Daily Mail hyperbole, it’s in the plan here: http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0048/00487884.pdf
Wonderful stuff, Suzanne. This one deserves to go down in history. Talk about bought and sold for foreign gold, such a parcel of rogues in a nation. Or a Shire! Not to mention the point-blank refusal of public authorities to do the job they are paid for. Then we wonder how places like Ukraine end up the way they are.
Suzanne says Thank you very much. The police are overdue in answering a FOI I did to explain how often exactly they spend time and taxpayer money on pursuing someone for allegedly peeing in public – they haven’t answered yet. I wonder why not.
This is the force who once heartily embarrassed themselves by lifting one of their own guys for peeing in a public toilet when he was off-duty – I wonder if they will ever own-up that…?
So I suspect they may have many more widdling tales to tell!
Thank you Eilidh. Like many women of my age, I just ‘put up with’ even more inequality for women in the form of the unfair handling of raising the Pension age . It is so good to hear of WASPI’s actions and of your support, and this article has inspired me, and I hope others to claim both our rights and respectful treatment.
Had to stop drinking my afternoon cuppa while reading this in case I chuckled so much I trashed my keyboard! Brilliant as ever, Suzanne – what actually happened during the whole fiasco beggars belief – looking forward to updating our American friends when we visit them soon…
Is your oil whole plant extract, from cannabis, and not hemp? Do you also have THC-acid, which is being used to treat seizures? THC-a is also not psychoactive, and has been very helpful in treating intractable seizures. What strains are being used to produce the CBD oil? Thank you for your assistance.
Suzanne Kelly says: UKCBD will be our preferred supplier; they have a wide range of products made different ways; please see their website (link in the article). I personally think THC oil should be legalised asap. Thank you for your interest
In struggling to make sense of this issue, I decided to do a little research.
As I understand it, the retirement/pension age in the UK had, for many years, been 60 for women and 65 for men. This peculiar inequality in favour of women, as far as I understand it, did not lead to a women’s equality campaign to increase the retirement age for women to 65 or reduce the retirement age of men to 60 at any time.
Although the WASPI message seems unclear, I understand they would like the retirement age for women, born during the 1950’s, to revert back to 60 and for the retirement age for women born in 1960 and thereafter to be immediately increased to 66 in line with that of men.
This, I feel, invites questions of WASPI, some of whose members it is alleged, have attacked Pensions Minister – Ros Altmann who said: “These women have e – mailed me with horrid and vile messages, such as hoping I get struck down with cancer, that I’m a traitor, a turncoat and that I’ve sold my soul to the devil” and makes one wonder whether their issue is one of equality or just disappointment that moving towards equality has resulted in them, personally, losing the advantage afforded them by the previous inequality?
Notwithstanding the somewhat debatable validity and dubious morality of the WASPI stance, it is not surprising to see the SNP embark on yet another opportunistic and populist crusade, with nothing constructive to say about the inevitable difficulties in attempting to keep everyone happy during a time of transition from clear advantage for women to a more equal arrangement.
Personally, I find the continual rabble – rousing and sectarianism of the SNP depressing, rather than inspiring, and would like to hear Ms Whiteford explain exactly what transitional arrangements she would prefer to put in place and how she would pay for them.
Well done Scott…… It is very necessary for important matters such as this to be opened up and taken into the public domain. At the end of the day, the tax payer provides the money to these Councils and we are all entitled to know what happens to the funds. I sincerely hope that this article leads to the full public awareness that it deserves and that after what has been a very long and stressful time for you, this whole matter is taken seriously and receives a full investigation so that the people behind all this can be brought to account for their actions and or failings.
Heads need to roll and people need to learn!
The big problem is that such organizations rely on their sheer size to bully and intimidate the small people – us the public! and that gives them the opinion that they can all do what they like, ignoring rules and laws. We just have to look at what the banks did only a few years ago and we are all still suffering from that sorry episode.
The Deputy Provost was quite correct to suggest that the police should be notified. This should have been automatically done by the Council. From what I understand, there a great many items of very substantial value held in galleries and museums up and down the Country and that many of these objects still remain in the ownership of individuals or the families and others who have entrusted the galleries or museums to fully protect everything in their possession. Likewise, all the other items held in these places are the property of the tax payer. They are not the personal possessions of the Council. With the Council and in fact every Council as you mention, not having full insurance cover, is surely a gross failing on their part to honour the professional commitment and requirements that they should provide as a minimum responsibility and what the public expect.
On whistle blowing, there was an article in the Press & Journal only this week, dealing with the intimidation and bullying behaviour from institutions against those who stand up and through honesty, reveal wrong doings! For 70% of investigations to be basically swept aside with supposedly no wrong doing being found, is quite clearly a wrong doing in itself and needs to be fully investigated.
More people need to stand up like you are doing Scott and have the guts and determination to reveal everything. Keep going and do not give in!!
You raise a number of pertinent points. The majority of local government art gallery items are not owned by Councils, they are either on loan from members of the public, owned by the citizens of the Council and thus the Council are custodians or are items in a travelling exhibition. Very, very high value items on loan from national galleries are covered under government indemnity and the Council are required to insure 1% value of these but even the 1% can be a reasonably high sum.
My FOI request was specifically sent to all 32 Scottish Councils asking only about PIDA disclosures ie proper disclosures under the public interest act that they had records for. In 70% of such cases no wrong doing was found and I believe this this is far too high an outcome. The person on the Scottish parliament site who raised petition PE01488 and PE01605 fully understands the situation……………..Its called integrity risk. Whistle blowing cases attract a high integrity risk from within the organisation where the whistle is blown. The petitioner fully realises that to eradicate this risk from occurring ie preventing cover ups etc one has to create a system where the whistle is blown via an external whistle blowing hotline run externally and outwith the Council. He has managed to get Edinburgh City Council to change onto this system and its run very successfully for 2 years. They have recently published a report on the 2yr trial period and they are very happy with the outcome and are keeping it. ECC are the only Council in Scotland to run such a system. Prior to it they had quite a few problems I understand re disclosures going wrong and not investigated properly.
Thanks for expanding on the whistle blowing. Do you think that had the external process now used by Edinburgh C.C. been in operation at Aberdeen C.C., your whistle blowing disclosure would have received a different outcome and the wrong doings would have been exposed?
As I have said in another post, it appears that with all that has happened to you, everyone at Aberdeen C.C. from the CEO down , including PWC are complicit to what was going on. In which case, this is of National importance and should now be fully uncovered, investigated and all of the wrong doings and those implicated in the decision making process must be exposed to the public. After all, these people are employed by the tax payer to look after their best interests – not to play games with the public assets and finances.
For an investigator to destroy correspondence and exclude pertinent documents from such an important Report is beyond comprehension and his actions alone must merit a full investigation. If there was nothing to hide, then why go to the trouble of destroying correspondence and one wonders, what else has been destroyed.
Thankfully, there has not been a disaster at any of the galleries or museums involved, but what would have happened if there had been major loss through fire or theft? What about damage by flooding or even as a result of building decay? There was a recent case of flood damage at an art gallery in Glasgow and we frequently read of open theft from galleries. Would Aberdeen C.C. or any of the other councils be duty bound to publish full details of such a disaster, or would this just be covered up too when it came to the fine detail of there being no suitable insurance cover to protect
the items concerned.
Surely, as far as Scotland is concerned, this is now a matter which needs to be seriously investigated and reviewed by the Scottish Government with fixed legislation being introduced? You mentioned that you had already taken your case to the Paliament and nothing happened. Does this suggest that there is yet another stone walling to protect certain parties from a deeper investigation, or is this just a case of incompetence?
I am curious to know if the Deputy Provost will go ahead and report this entire matter to the police. Have you thought about going to the police direct?
There appears to be a great deal of information to be revealed and carefully investigated.
Just a further couple of questions. The readers who are following this article and the ultimate exposure of a clear wrong doing, may, like me, also be questioning whether the money paid out by Aberdeen CC and other councils across the Country for the Zurich insurance policies, has in fact been a total waste of tax payers resources? You may not be able to answer this question Scott, but just how much money has been spent by Aberdeen CC on insurance policies which are totally useless over say the past 10 years? What would be the purpose of taking out insurance cover which is ineffective and at the ultimate risk of having no suitable protection for priceless works of art. Surely nobody can gain from this and the whole thing is total mismanagement and incompetence?
This begs a final question: if this practice goes on with insurance cover for publicly managed works of art etc., should everyone now be examining the wording of their insurance policies for any valuable items owned and supposedly protected by what could be a worthless piece of paper.
Mr Mackay raises a number of important points in his 2 additional posts and I will try and deal with these.
1. IMO Had ACC had an external hotline in place when I blew the whistle this mess would never have happened. It would have resulted in the Police being notified correctly and very early on in the investigation and my whistle blowing disclosure fully upheald.
2. I believe Aberdeen City Councils CEO (and current Legal Head) are complicit in this and are covering their internal auditors who are PWC. They are I think covering them to prevent any exposure of wrong which was carried out by their internal auditors and where this would expose a massive failing in the Corporate Governance of Aberdeen City Council and where criminal acts were pointed out, covered up and nullified.
3. The Scottish Government seem to be lagging way behind the times when it comes to whistle blowing in the public sector and where serious integrity risk exists with said disclosures. The problem is that organisations like Audit Scotland, Local Govt Ombudsman etc leave Councils up to their own devises with regards to handling these matters with little oversight into the monitoring of cases . Thus the integrity risk can become huge. There is no oversight whatsoever with regards these matters apart from ensuring that procedures are in place. Procedures that can be warped, twisted, distorted from within the organisation where the whistle was blown. I have 25yrs professional experience in Risk Management which is a subject which identifies, analyses and controls risk in areas of corporate life. Integrity risk or corruption risk (if you prefer) is the number 1 risk associated with protected interest disclosures and that risk oozes from within the organisations where the disclosure was made.
4. I reported this to the Police myself by walking into Queen Street Police station during 2015. The matter was passed on to their fraud squad who I chased 3 times over the phone. One evening I got an inspector on the phone (he never visited to obtain documented evidence) and he went away to check a few points. I got a message left on my answer phone that he had carried out some due diligence checks by ( by phoning ACC’s legal unit) and he was dropping it. He would have been told that the PWC investigative report showed “no wrongs” and thus it was a tick box exercise in time wasting.
5. ACC pay Zurich Municipal circa £1.5M per annum in insurance premiums. This overall premium is for an insurance portfolio of covers such as employers liability cover, public liability cover, buildings insurance and motor insurance cover. All these covers were ok. This matter relates to the insurance cover of the high value art items only. The covers however are critical as they relate to ultra high value paintings valued at £32M downwards. Overall they amount to one of the highest value on shore risks north of Edinburgh which are highly susceptible to fire and theft.
6. With regards Zurich Municipals insurance arrangements for the high value art items which IMO never at any stage met the Councils insurance tender document since 96/97. Zurich Municipal resorted IMO to lying, cheating and engaging in wilful fraudulent misrepresentation on the arrangement at ACC in addition to operating a UK wide insurance scam with regards to the essential fire cover of the entire countries art collections that were under the control of UK local government. The fire insurance scam only ended with dramatic changes to UK insurance law specifically addressing problems relating to non disclosure.
Thanks Suzanne. I just feel that nowadays, the public are required to contribute large sums of money towards every aspect of life and where we have to rely upon other people, whether it be the council, NHS or any other organization, Public or Private, we should be entitled to have clarity and complete honesty at all times. It is not much to expect or ask for. It seems very sad and a terrible situation that someone such as Scott Shaw, has effectively had his career ruined by being honest and revealing a failure in the system, which should never have happened in the first place.
Would I be right in thinking that during the period of time since you exposed these wrong doings, the CEO, the Head of Finance and also the Head of Legal, amongst others at Aberdeen CC have all departed and been replaced. It would seem that the new individuals, having declared that nothing was wrong in their eyes, are now also complicit to what has taken place. Either that, or they are all totally incompetent?
By refusing to accept what was happening, despite all of the evidence which you have submitted, clearly shows that there must be something much deeper and more complex going on. Why would an organization such as PWC want to risk having their reputation damaged by being party to such activities? As you say, there must be a massive failing in Corporate Governance at the Council which has become totally endemic throughout the entire entity, so much so, that the risk of any public exposure, would have significant repercussions and financial implications up and down the Country. Hence the need to bury it?
From what you have said, it appears that the Scottish Government and I assume therefore, the local MP and the local Government Ombudsman are doing nothing? You also mentioned that you went personally to the Police and they are not taking the matter up. Do you think the Deputy Provost may now report everything, given that was his wish?
What about Audit Scotland. Would they not be duty bound to now investigate every aspect of this? Now that it has been shown without doubt from the evidence which you have collected, there is something very wrong, surely they must take this seriously and demand answers.
As for Zurich, it would appear that for many years they have been collecting hundreds of thousands of pounds for potentially worthless policies, not just from Aberdeen CC but from all of the other Councils and organizations who have taken out similar insurance cover through them.
I really hope that you can take this forward and are not bullied into submission, as frequently happens with the big guy, small guy scenario !
I will attempt to answer the points you raise in your recent post,
The disclosure was made in March 2012 and the then acting CEO and Monitoring Officer have since departed. The Current CEO and Monitoring Officer have been made fully aware of matters via an extensive professional 160 page report including extensive appendix sections. They are IMO complicit via their stubborn refusal to accept proven facts.
I believe the much deeper malaise which exists within ACC is a constant oozing lack of integrity in the face of empirically proven fact and where it is now understood that they engaged the services of a cohort (PWC) who were IMO quite happy to prostitute themselves for money. Integrity didn’t get a look in I believe. And you are right………….it seems the corporate governance of Aberdeen City Council is riddled with incompetence and intentional oversight. A perfect example of this is my suspension letter of 30th March 2012 where it is apparent that the finance director/line manager personally approached the organisation highlighted as committing wrongs in an attempt to coerce that organisation into bring charges against me. I quote this out of my suspension letter:
“Serious concerns have been raised by Zurich Municipal as to the inappropriateness of your handling of certain areas of the Council’s insurance portfolio; this has potential to cause serious reputational damage to the Council ”
You couldn’t make this up, you really couldn’t. As soon as I blew the whistle on the wrongs IMO a numpty finance director and line manger immediately run to the wrong doer via telephone contact to get the wrong doer to come forward with charges that they then write in a suspension letter. And that is after they were both fully aware of the serious nature of the wrongs being committed against the Council ! It is the corporate governance of Alice in Wonderland.
Audit Scotland are currently carrying out a tick box investigation which will IMO not address and tackle the serious failings with regards to this case. They should be addressing and looking what I believe were the serious breaches in ACC’s corporate governance and particularly where PWC were involved. Of course the Police should be called and I have already made this obvious to Audit Scotland that they need to do this.
And as for Zurich Municipal you are absolutely right. Hundreds of thousands of pounds around the UK and over decades have been raked in for an insurance arrangement that was completely useless IMO. It was I believe intentionally useless due to the documentation scam that was running on Councils for decades which IMO cheated these organisations out of fire essential fire cover.
I won’t be bullied into any submission. It is they who are frightened to meet with me and not the other way round.
Unbelievable……………..I also would be very interested to hear how many prosecutions they have made for urinating in public. Behind a sand dune is not exactly public. What happens if you are sick in a public place ? Lol. That must deserve 10 days in jail at least.
This alternative Queen’s Speech, in my view, represents approximately similar value to the tax – payer, as the new SNP MP’s, Angus MacNeil and Stewart Hosie did whilst swanning around London hotels, and cheating on their wives by taking turns with the same woman, allegedly at our expense on occasion.
The SNP MP’s clearly have so little to do in London and so little to contribute, that they have time to squabble over mistresses and indulge in pointless political grandstanding, whilst their ex Leader – Alex Salmond, takes to the airwaves on his weekly London radio show to announce to the world that he diid indeed “gild the lily”, in other words deliberately mislead the people of Scotland.
Given the chance to raise taxes to boost education and public services in Scotland, the SNP have steadfastly refused to do so, yet at Westminster they propose the raising of the top rate of income tax to 50% and criticise the UK Government for failing to do so.
It is, in my opinion, just this this kind of hypocrisy and deception which will eventually lead to their downfall.
Thanks very much Bruce…………….the main stress that comes with most whistle blowing saga’s is after the whistle is blown. The organisation into which the whistle was blown either takes a right move or a wrong one. If they take a wrong one and then try to cover up what has been exposed the journey becomes very stressful. All power to AV for getting involved.
It sounds like another cover up going on here. Big organisations trying to silence individuals. I would have thought that you should have been fully protected as a whistle blower?
If this is the case, how did you find out about the councils not having fire cover?
Thanks for your comments John. Protection for UK whistle blowers is spurious. It is meant to be provided by a piece of legislation called the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 and via the tribunal courts. Fair judicial process however can only occur if the organisation into which the whistle was blown are being honest and open regarding the findings of any investigation that has taken place into the wrongs. If they wilfully cover up wrongs then they are misleading a court. This happened in my case and PWC are the cause of that.
Regarding your question concerning the fire cover. This involved a documentation scam that Zurich Municipal were using against their entire UK customer base. The annual renewal document or disclosure document to be more precise induced customers into non disclosure of high value art items under Part A of the policy where they were supposed to be insured for fire, lightening, earthquake and aircraft cover. Councils only disclosure these items where they were asked ie under Part K of the disclosure document. If you look at the exclusions under Part K that AV have posted you will see fire cover is excluded. Thus Councils had no fire cover for decades in this arrangement. I have verified this via FOI to all Councils who used the arrangement. The legal scam came to an end via important changes to non disclosure insurance legislation which are to be introduced. When the scam was up ie Zurich Municipal would have to pay fire claims regardless of the non disclosure having occurred they then redesigned their All Risks policy and included fire cover but without telling their Uk customers what they were doing. How could they tell them ? They also charged no increased premium for doing this as the scam would also have been apparent to their UK customer base. The scam worked a treat for over 20yrs and for that duration Aberdeen City Council and many other Councils throughout the UK had no fire cover for ultra high value fire susceptible works of art which would burn in minutes.
If you look at the Zurich Municipal document dated 2003 that AV have posted you will see the best example you are ever going to see of fraudulent misrepresentation of a commercial insurance policy. The ZM underwriting division produced this at a tender time when questions were being asked concerning covers stipulated in the Councils insurance tender document. ZM drafted and sent this letter to fraudulently deceive me into believing the contents of it were true. 3 of the covers in the letter are direct contradictions to the exclusions within the policy itself ans you can see this clearly. There is no definition of theft cover in the Part K policy (it is defined in Part L which is also posted). The ZM underwriting unit were endeavouring to make me believe the policy operated on a full theft cover basis ie unforced entry/exit thefts would be covered. They did this again in March 2012. After I was suspended on 30th March 2012 I found out via the Insurance Officer at Highland Council that they had a walk in theft turned down by ZM on the same arrangement and they received a letter stating that the theft peril operated on the restricted basis ie restricted to break in/out and/or force against a person. My extensive FOI research indicates that many claims around the UK have been turned down for unforced walk in/out theft. One Council……….Tamworth Borough Council received e-mail confirmation from ZM’s underwriting unit itself that the theft cover is restricted and thus the is 100% categorical. ZM used fraudulent misrepresentation at Aberdeen City Council over an extensive number of years on this important cover in order to deceive ACC into believing the policy met the tender requirements. They did this knowingly, willingly and intentionally.
And the theft cover was part of your disclosure? Didn’t the PWC investigation look into this as it was one of the concerns you raised via your whistle blowing disclosure?
Stuart raises a key fundamental point in relation to the matter.
The issue over the theft cover was the main thrust of my whistle blowing disclosure and which was highlighted to both my line manager and the finance director. It was specifically discussed (and understood) during a private meeting with both at 2.00pm on Wednesday 28th March 2012 in the ground floor meeting room of Aberdeen City Councils AECC offices. This followed a long e-mail sent to the finance director on 26th March 2012 highlighting the problem and where an extensive explanation of the long standing problem with the theft cover was provided and where I state:
“Zurich have basically been committing longstanding policy wording fraud on the Council”
That e-mail was part of my disclosure and was examined by the Councils Monitoring Officer (Head of Legal). In my letter to her I again explain the problem with regards misrepresentation of key covers and state:
“My reporting under whistle blowing rules follows my repeated attempts to bring the matter to line managers attention and also to the attentions of finance director. Repetitive attempts to raise this very important issue regarding the Councils insurances has fallen on deaf ears and therefore I have no alternative but to now raise these matters with yourself via the internal whistle blowing rules”
The IMO fraudulent misrepresentation with regards the theft cover was the key area of concern in my whistle blowing disclosure. What I believe amounts to proof of the criminal nature behind the ZM underwriters activities was discovered via a lengthy discussion in person with Highland Councils insurance officer and when I met this person during May 2012. This important evidence was presented to the PWC investigative officer during a meeting with him on 25th June 2012 at PWC’s Aberdeen offices and where he took extensive notes and said he would investigate the matter. He also stated that there would be further meetings with regards the matter. At this stage I believe it should have been a Police investigation with the PWC person making a quick telephone call to the Highland Council insurance officer prior to passing the matter over to the Police.
The PWC investigator did neither. No further meetings took place with me and I learnt much latter that he neither had made contact with Highland Councils insurance officer who had the evidence waiting on his desk. when I learnt of this I notified the Councils Monitoring Officer via e-mail of these facts and that a central issue of the investigation had not been carried out. She ignored it even though she had the PWC report in her possession at the time and where it was clearly obvious the matter had not been dealt with. When I eventually received the PWC report it was apparent that the PWC investigator had IMO wilfully fabricated an e-mail specifically relating to the theft cover and where he was trying to provide protection to the ZM underwriter who was engaging in what seems like criminal fraudulent misrepresentation against the Council. His report is IMO full of e-mail fabrications, altering of time events and omissions of key documents such as the 2003 Zurich document that AV have posted and where historic fraudulent misrepresentation is apparent.
By engaging in these activities I believe the PWC investigator therefore ignored investigating (and reporting top the Police) the criminal activity and indeed attempted to cover it up via his fabrications within his report. It has been possible to expose this key e-mail fabrication within his report only after having to expend a horrendous amount of time and by using 6 separate corroborative pieces of evidence to expose it has having been an intentional fabrication. All these are in my 160 page report which was presented to Ms Angela Scott, CEO of Aberdeen City Council on 9th November 2015 yet in a recent letter to me dated 7th March 2016 she expresses her satisfaction with the PWC investigation and report.
It would seem that a group that is in a position to council or advise the public in various matters would take it upon themselves to have all the information that is available.
This would also include finding ways to use the city or towns finances in ways that best serve the public.
I would say that this in no way has been done in this case.
Perhaps it is time that this council look at the position they hold and represent that position.
Local government is structured around various committee’s run by democratically elected councillors and Officers who are the paid employee’s of the Council. Any whistle blowing concern raised has to pass to a Monitoring Officer (paid Officer) for approval. IMO In my case this Monitoring Officer skewed the disclosure somewhat to keep the mention of wrongs out of the disclosure and thus out of any report which would eventually go back into committee. IMO The whistle blowing investigative officer (PWC) failed to carry out an investigation into wrongs even when these were discussed with him on 25th June 2012. Thus when his resultant report was produced and returned to the Monitoring Officer there were no wrongs mentioned as part of the disclosure and no wrongs found. That sanitised report then gets presented to committee and misleads them.
This is how big town hall works. They can then pull the shutters down on the whole thing and go into denial. And why a wrong can still exist on the arrangement 4 yrs after it was clearly identified.
Scott, could it therefore be assumed that they ( the Council and PWC) all knew that the wrongs had taken place and therefore did not bother to investigate the matter, hence the fact that the Monitoring Officer failed on purpose, to keep the mention of wrongs out of the initial report? and that evidence was subsequently destroyed or not included in the final PWC Report. Could it be, that these wrongs are just the tip of a much larger iceberg, in which numerous other wrongs have not been disclosed or have been systematically covered up? Therefore, this would surely mean that everyone from the CEO, the Legal Officer and Compliance Officer and every other senior official in the Council who is in a position of control and / or trust, is complicit to what has and presumably still is taking place. Not to mention PWC who were appointed to “investigate” the matter.
Do you happen to know how much PWC were paid for conducting this investigation?
The primary reason for the Monitoring Officer from keeping wrongs out of the disclosure and report that she presented to Council Committee on 18th April 2012 was to block any wrongs from exposed to democratically elected councillors. It also meant that they kept out of being recorded via Council minutes. You are correct in your assumption that they knew wrongs had been pointed out and as long as they did not investigate them then how could they be proven. They, however did not calculate or even remotely see the possibility of a whistle blower being able to prove the wrongs and account for the wrongs via his/her own investigation and independently provided documentation.
The destruction of e-mail documentation at PWC’s Glasgow office was an attempt to destroy an audit trail which would prove the highly corrupted nature of the PWC investigation and report. The PWC investigator was sat in his Glasgow office with a pile of e-mails fabricating a story line and was then allowed to destroy the lot which contravenes Audit Scotland guidelines on fraud/whistle blowing investigations.
Aberdeen City Councils current CEO and Legal Head are entirely complicit in this matter. Totally so. Both of them are specified designated statutory officers who are compelled via statute to account for wrongs as and when these are apparent and have been pointed out to them. They choose not to do this and therefore are displaying extremely low integrity and ethical standards and where they continue to do this. They chose to bring further reputational damage on their organisation and where criminal fraudulent insurance misrepresentation is still in place.
PWC were paid exactly £3,750 – exclusive of VAT which would have been charged on the total invoice costs, which is reclaimable from HMRC. I quote directly from a FOI request I made to the Council re the cost of the PWC. Nearly £4,000 for an IMO corrupted report which I believe ignored white collar criminal activity and perverted due legal process in a public court of law.
Scott, This is quite incredible. Who oversees the conduct of the Monitoring Officer?
To supress this or any evidence of a wrong doing from the elected councillors who effectively represent the public is very wrong. Have you thought of approaching the councillors directly yourself?
For anyone to destroy documentation which is part of evidence, must surely be a criminal act and at the very least, totally unprofessional. PWC must have received written instructions from someone to go ahead with the destroying of the emails and documentation. However, it is almost impossible to destroy the embedded electronic evidence from a computer system and if a full investigation was opened up, it should be possible to retrieve the evidence.
From what you have said and evidenced, the CEO and Legal Head are certainly appear to be devoid of professional integrity, having failed to deal with your complaints or any of this properly. Should the Legal Head not be reported to the Law Society so that they can instigate an investigation? Likewise for the previous Legal Head. Who or which organization is responsible for the conduct of the CEO ?
There are many questions yet to be answered! As I said the other day, is this just the tip of a very large iceberg? Finally, rather than end up with a complete disaster lurching out of control, would it not be in the Council`s interests to admit they were wrong, had failed in the due diligence of the insurance policies and apologise to you for what they have done to you and to the public for the costly failure in protecting their property. The truth can never hurt!
You have hit on some very pertinent points and I will address these.
There is no oversight of the Monitoring Officer (Head of Legal) with regards whistle blowing disclosures which are passed to this person once they are made. This is the number 1 primary integrity risk regarding such disclosures in Scottish Local Government today IMO. A Head of Legal is the worst possible person who could be solely put in charge of said disclosures and with no opinions or input from any other person with regards said disclosures IMO.
The Head of Legal thus acts as a filterer of bad news from ever reaching Councillors. If the disclosure can be handled and dealt with easily then the system will function as it should and Cllr’s would be made aware of the full nature of the disclosure. However, if the disclosure is awkward with the possibility of large fall out risk occurring via the exposing of wrongs associated with an important provider of Council services then the integrity of the whole system falls apart totally. My case is a perfect example and illustrates this clearly.
With regards to electronic data storage, you are quite correct. In the case of ACC it is kept off site via an external hard drive provider and instruction would probably have already been given by now to wipe all trace of e-mail data off the records. However, I do not need the full e-mail records of the last two weeks in March 2012 to prove what I believe is extensive e-mail fabrications within the PWC report. The e-mails that do exist (and which I have) prove the fabrications. The destruction of said e-mails breached both Audit Scotland guidelines into fraud/whistle blowing investigations and also data retention requirements for outsourced work as laid down by the Standards for Scottish Solicitors Professional Practice Rules 2011.
I believe the current CEO of ACC, Ms Angela Scott and her current legal head are devoid of professional integrity with regards this matter. Ms Angela Scott has continually refused to meet me to discuss (after asking her in writing 3 times for a meeting) and they continue to be entirely obstinate in their refusal to accept facts. A disaster lurching out of control is what they seem to desire and where they still have an insurance arrangement with fraudulent misrepresentation in place. The truth hurts if it proves the entire corporate governance of ACC surrounding this matter has failed and failed dismally.
It must have been very stressful and frustrating for an individual to go through this particularly there are cover ups and wrongdoing in this case! Best of luck!
Thanks for your post David. The point you raise has been dealt with in my reply to an early post sent by Stuart. After reading please come back with any further questions you may have with respects PWC and the activities they engaged in. Regards.
Shocking to see big professional firms behaving like that! Was the PWC whistle blowing investigative report presented to the tribunal court by the Council?
Good question. The PWC investigative report was IMO a highly corrupted account of fact and where the PWC report IMO engaged in extensive e-mail fabrications and altering of time events and where he was apparently allowed to destroy all e-mail documentation within PWC’s Glasgow offices prior to forwarding an undated and unsigned corrupted account of fact back to the Council. The Councils Monitoring Officer knew that he had not dealt with the central issue relating to my disclosure as she was informed by me via e-mail and she had a copy of the PWC report in her possession. She however as the Councils head of legal used this IMO corrupted report and presented it to the tribunal court as a true account of fact and thus was responsible (along with her PWC cohorts) I believe of wilfully misleading a court and denying due legal process to take place. She is a current committee member of the Law Society of Scotland for god’s sake. Recently retired out of ACC with a nice fat augmented superannuated pension I understand.
You ,as a member of professional body/associate, acted ethically but IMO the Council and PWC misled a public court and cheated you out of a fair tribunal hearing that you lost your job. That is absolutely disgraceful. I do hope your case gains wider exposure and is being heard from the Audit Scotland. Shame that it has ruined your career!! Very best of luck, Scott.
You have mentioned problems over the theft cover related to Art Donations. Does that mean as a potential donor of Art to the Council that any high value Art is not covered unless there are obvious break-in signs? For example – where is my Picasso that I lent – I want it back to sell it. Err we don’t know and since there are no signs of a break-in it’s not actually insured therefore the value is effectively lost? Bad luck! Can councils having this policy therefore really be trusted with major (or minor) items of Art having any value at all? If it’s also inadequately for by fire then that is truly dreadful and represents a possible major cultural loss.
Very valid post Mr Harrison and you are bang on the money. There is no insurance in place for walk in/walk out thefts or thefts by other means without force. This could include thefts where a thief hides in an art gallery during opening hours and then raids the place during closing hours and escapes via a fire exit. The possibilities of committing theft without force is endless and is a primary risk for all uk art galleries open to the public. Aberdeen art gallery staff themselves say this risk is a major concern.
IMO Zurich Municipal know full well that their policy does not cover for these events but rather than being truthful about this shortcoming they chose to commit white collar crime via fraudulently misrepresenting the cover. After the IMO corrupted PWC document came into existence, Aberdeen City Council got a second opinion and after viewing e-mail statements forwarded by the ZM underwriter he wrote:
“It is apparent from the examination of documents made available that the Insurance Company has categorically stated that Theft losses are insured whether there is evidence of forcible entry or exit from the premises. In addition as the policy wording does not stipulate that theft is only covered in such circumstances (ie of forcible entry or exit) it is impossible to follow anything other than the Insurers written confirmation on this point.
Therefore it is clear that he believes and Aberdeen City Council believe (from what ZM are saying) that theft cover is Full ie would cover walk in thefts. This point is important as for fraudulent misrepresentation to exist it is important that one can prove that the misrepresentation has been believed.
His comment that the policy does not stipulate the theft cover is incorrect as it is clearly stipulated in the place where it should be ie under the contracts definition of theft cover and AV have posted this clearly as part of the article. Zurich Municipals theft cover is clearly defined in the only place where it needs to be ie under theft cover.
The point you make about the UK wide public sector scam involving the historic hole in fire cover for Council art galleries is absolutely correct. No insurance means no money. This scam has fortunately been brought to a close via pending UK wide insurance legislation. At the present moment in time it is highly unlikely that any UK local government organisation are aware of this. It was a complex documentation scam (IMO) which I have touched upon via my reply to John who posted earlier. It however should be fully exposed and to organisations who continue to rely on Zurich Municipal for insurance and Risk Management services. This insurer has been proven to be the largest single risk that these organisations had IMO.
It strikes me that even on my own land, if it was a part of it with a reasonable assumption of public access, I could well be facing a raft of pretty unpleasant charges if I went around filming or photographing people peeing.
Its not like she was deliberately or maliciously watering the greens!
Thanks for reply – Whistleblowing seems a very risky occupation if your notes are anything to go by – is there any possibility that some sort of independent investigation will go forward highlighting the issues you describe?
Audit Scotland are carrying out a month long investigation into this as we write. It is due to be finalised by the end of May. Audit Scotland are the external auditors of all Scottish local government organisations.
I guarantee that this investigation will not look nor document anything with regards the seriousness of what has taken place. It will not document the longstanding situation that existed with regards fire cover and nor tackle the (IMO) fraudulent misrepresentation that still exists with regards theft cover. It should also tackle and deal with the very serious failings in Corporate Governance which took place within Aberdeen City Council where (IMO) their own internal auditors (PWC) intentionally ignored investigating and purposefully covered up my disclosure.
An additional comment with regards the current Audit Scotland investigation.
I first made contact with this organisation in during 2013 when I e-mailed them details of the problem. I again made successive attempts to involve them during 2014 where their involvement may have prevented (IMO) a court being misled via the PWC report. During the later part of 2015 and when I was virtually kicking the door down of the Auditor General of Scotland they started to show an interest and have agreed to carry out an investigation.
This investigation needs to document the long standing failings in fire with respects to ACC’s art collections and where I have presented a spread sheet and supporting evidence to show the failings were UK wide. This needs documented and circulated to all 32 Scottish local govt organisations and also circulated to their English/Welsh counterparts.
They then need to tackle and document the (IMO) cover up PWC investigation/report into my disclosure at ACC and make sure this is reported to the Accounts Commission as a serious breach in ACC’s Corporate Governance.
They then need to notify the Police with regards the (IMO) wilful fraudulent insurance misrepresentation which is on going and relative to the theft cover. I will assist the Police and matters needs to be brought to the attention of the relative Southern force for consideration of pressing charges under the Fraud Act 2006 which is the applicable piece of legislation for fraud charges in England.
Very interesting article. Shows what takes to be a “whistleblower”
Very brave of you Scott to take on the big boys and it looks like you almost there.
Simon
Agree with the comments noted above by Colin, Andrew & others. I have worked in a number of large companies over my career and “whistle blowing” is taken very seriously in these organisations. It takes real courage to highlight errors or wrong doings especially when your livelihood may be at stake.
Scott, I can fully understand your frustration and anger at the way you have been treated in this matter and I hope that you can meet your objectives in “flushing out” the wrong doings. It seems to me that you have moved some way to doing so through this Aberdeen voice page. Good luck going forward…
I gave up cycling several years ago due to the lack of safe car-free lanes in Aberdeenshire. Amazingly, places such as East Kilbride attempted to address this issue in the 1960’s with a transport infrastructure which included underground roundabouts for cyclists at road junctions – to separate cars and bikes at choke points.
Given the £170m funding currently allocated to the “Corridor of Prosperity Aberdeen/Inverness improvement a million or so for a safe cycling route seems like a no brainer both from a safety and carbon footprint stance.
Bruce, you have failed to understand the argument. The request is for adequate notification of changes to the pensions age, as required by the government’s own commission in 1995 which was ignored, Women like myself have had the pension age changed twice in 7 years and then weren’t even informed for several more years, resulting in too little time to make career changes to accommodate for having to work longer. Add this to inequitous changes in Home Reponsibilites NInsurance, and the fact that women still bear the burden of child and other care in our communities, making job changes more restricted.
This is an apolitical issue, we are looking for reasonable treatment and people to hear the arguments not slag each other off and score political points.
We have some World class developments that massively overshadow our heritage. We have some World class leaders and business personalities who like to leave stamp their mark all over our valued natural heritage with “class” buildings. We also, apparently have the largest (greatest) dunes in the World , a very well kept secret and not even mentioned in any of the blurbs on 10 greatest, largest, highest dunes on google… The greatest ever US presidential candidate is known to visit the area, sometimes even staying more that 30 minutes.
When Joanna Blythman said “The Granite City is in thrall to the Philistines” and went on to say “The oil years have changed the ethos of this fine town……Today the city is all about materialism, bling cars, big steaks and bugger the past. Even within Scotland, Aberdeen and its surrounding area now looks like territory all but ceded, by fawning politicians and planners……..seems semi-detached from civilised European culture ……” I could go on, but I think you probably get the picture. Perhaps VisitAberdeenshire should have looked at what visitors – even corporate ones – like to do when they come to Scotland, and playing golf is way down the list. While I have no objection to you promoting golf, I do object to the promotion of TIGLS. Trump is no longer a Global Scot, and his degree from RGU has been rescinded. There was a petition,that collected way more than half a million signatures, requesting that he be banned from entering the UK, yet you are promoting a business that is owned by a bullying, racist, misogynist where his neighbours on the Menie are treated despicably. This smacks of sycophancy of the worst order, and you should be ashamed that you are promoting Scotland in this dreadful way.
A well written & extremely informative piece as ever, Suzanne – thank you. We’re just back from 2 weeks with friends who live 30-odd miles north of Houston, so of course were there when the Orlando shooting happened – the reactions on all sides were something to hear. An interesting time to be in the US with elections coming up, too. Much political discussion over dinner during our stay – the male half of our hosts & I will never agree on either guns or capital punishment, but will remain firm friends nevertheless…!
Excellent article as ever, thank you Suzanne. I doubt Ms Malone-Bates will be rushing to take you up on your public debate offer any time soon, though! I did chuckle when I saw local news coverage (on TV as opposed to in the local press, obviously) about Mr Forbes & the Milnes flying the Mexican flag on their properties.
Jeanette wrote from a different continent as it happens. However, we have had some repeat posters in the past who write the most astonishing things from the UK in the wee hours.
If this comment isn’t out of time,! Your correspondents comments about rail being an obselete method of transport is itself an increasingly obsolete mind set in view of the vast increase in demand for rail travel! I would propose that if serious studies on a reinstatement of a future rail connection to both Peterhead and Fraserburgh are going to be initiated that a route onwards from the embryonic Ellon proposal could be to reinstate the former Boddam line ,extend it past Peterhead harbour into a new through rail head station for Peterhead and then reconnect into the former track bed towards Mintlaw and further consider new construction back into the former Maud to Fraserburgh rail route ,this could provide a future passenger service to both Peterhead and Fraserburgh using a single service and could perhaps stimulate the development of Peterhead harbour into a potentially viable container port ,land access of course permitting .It is well known that recent rail construction projects are carrying a huge price burden
(I inadvertently sent my comment unfinished!)..price burden vis a vis similar projects on the continent it is however encouraging that the Waverly reinstatement was good value,so it is to be anticipated that a Buchan rail reinstatement could be carried out with like diligence,in view of the current Oil industry hiatus Aberdeenshire towns could well do with such a stimulus which would not only provide future employment but signal that Peterhead and Faserburgh will have a forward looking future.!.,notwithstanding the current by pass project.
What’s more, if we built the line all the way to Peterhead and then to Fraserburgh, instead of then expanding Westwards from Peterhead only as far as Mintlaw, we could build all the way to Huntly to make a connection, thus creating a rail triangle.
Yes, I know this post is 2 years out of date, but it is the first time I have really found anywhere where there are real supporters of reopening North Eastern railway lines.
From Marie Boulton: I have contacted Tree Officers to try and get you the information you asked for, there are approximately 40 pine trees which are tightly close together which are being felled. The largest 2 trees that have been removed so far have been rotten hence why branches have been falling and have damaged residents properties. There were also issues with the properties feeling damp due to the lack of light, the paths becoming slippery and when returning home in the evening the area felt slightly threatening to some of the residents particularly those living alone. Residents complained that the outside area wasn’t pleasant or safe to sit out because it felt dank, dark and the fear of falling branches meant residents were reluctant to use it . The Council did try cutting back branches, improving the lighting in the street and in houses owned by the Council over several years prior to taking the current action and only did so because residents still felt unsafe for the reasons above. The cottages are amenity housing and don’t have separate gardens so the outside communal spaces are important to them and many of the residents are older so the safety aspects become a priority.
I have confirmed with the tree officers that they have checked the trees for nests which they confirmed they did and that there was only one nest and it was empty and photographic evidence was taken to show this. The tree Officers will re plant suitable trees as quickly as possible. I am sorry I cannot comment on the lack of response because I have only had two people contact me and that was the one to keep the trees and one to have the trees felled and I have responded to them both. The letters which have been sent out and the planning of works was an operational matter carried out by officers with no elected member involvement or instruction so it would be inappropriate for me to comment.
Council Tree Officer do not take the decision lightly to fell trees and do consider very carefully the competing issues before reaching a final decision and in this case will be replanting as soon as possible.
I hope this clarifies the situation on this situation.
In response to Councillor Boulton’s comments – we have watched the destruction of these trees from our window, right from the start – and they were healthy, not rotten. This can be seen from my photographs of the log piles. If the trees have been monitored and “maintained” at all in the past – surely any “rotten” ones would have been removed and the healthy ones left in place. I am not sure how old these trees are, but they are a long way from the end of their lives – Scots Pines can live around 300 years and Douglas Firs around 600 years.
This belt of trees provides habitat for many species of birds. It is hard to believe that only one (empty) nest was found. If this was the case, then the tree officers may not have been looking thoroughly enough – blue tits’ nests, for instance, are small are often in small holes in trees (eg where an old branch has broken off), so would not be visible easily.
So, only ONE person has contacted Councillor Boulton in favour of felling the trees, and yet the destruction has gone ahead on this basis??? This does NOT clarify the situation!
Come on Suzanne, be fair. Mrs Malone – Bates and her employers were probably completely unaware that people needed luxury facilities such as running water and access to their livelihoods in order to survive when such amenities were being “accidentally” cut off.
Furthermore, she did everything possible to make their lives better, by unilaterally removing barriers and providing a landscaping service, thereby ensuring a more modern, open – plan environment and even went as far as to place huge quantities of earth, free of charge, adjacent to one of the houses, providing a more authentic rustic charm and enabling residents to offer a real Sahara type experience to visitors.
Suzanne says – it was good of Marie Boulton to get back so quickly – but I really don’t understand a few things about this tree cull, and hope people in the area who are interested / the author of this article can look at the info from the Council below and let us know whether or not the tree cutting fit into these guidelines or not. Any photos to show the health of the trees, how close they were to the buildings, etc. would help. But if a few people ‘felt scared’ in a home with trees near it – in Peterculter – my reaction is shame on them if these trees were destroyed because of small-minded, ill-informed paranoia of a minority – and that’s what it looks like to me as regards the resident related complaint. Council policy:
Planning and Environment > Planning > Trees and Woodlands > Council Owned Trees
Council Owned Trees
Trees are of vital importance to the world for many reasons.
Amongst other things they screen eyesores, frame views and form landscapes. Trees have significant environmental value, produce a habitat for many species and help provide us with cleaner, filtered air, shade in the summer and warmth in the winter. Advice is freely available on any aspect of maintenance of Council owned city trees, for example:
Street Trees
Park Trees
Open Space Trees
Trees in Housing Areas
Trees in Council House Gardens (This does not include former Council Housing sold under ‘Right to Buy’)
Woodland Management
This involves work such as pruning, planting or felling of trees or woodlands that are owned by Aberdeen City Council. Also, the Council has a similar level of responsibility when managing the trees it owns to any private land owner or neighbour. In the first instance contact the call centre on 0845 608 0919 for general advice. However, the City Council has guidelines for works relating to the trees it owns.
Work the Council will or will not do to Council owned trees
Work the Council will do on Council owned trees:
Remove dead, dying or dangerous trees
Remove trees within 2 metres from property (see notes relating to proximity to buildings)
Remove dangerous limbs
Remove limbs which are obscuring highway signs, traffic lights or lamp columns
Inspect and if necessary, repair trip hazard caused by Council owned trees
Inspect trees causing daylight obstruction to the South or South West of the property. Work may proceed after this inspection, an exception to this is in the case of established woodland predating the house construction
Thin groups of trees to improve form and condition of remaining trees
Work the Council will not do on Council owned trees:
Cut back branches overhanging private property. (The private property owner has the legal right to cut back these branches on a tree which is not subject to a Tree Protection Order)
‘Top’ trees or remove branches to increase daylight or decrease height in relation to property (See note regarding South or South West trees above)
Remove branches or trees affecting views or interfering with TV reception
Remove branches or trees to prevent falling leaves, honeydew from aphids or other minor debris
Remove roots from gardens
Remove roots from drains or repair damage to structures where the tree has not been clearly demonstrated to be the principal cause
Remove branches or trees to prevent potential root damage to structures
Remove branches nearly touching buildings, walls, roofs, fences etc.
Remove branches or trees to prevent access to squirrels or birds
Remove branches or trees affecting BT lines (see notes relating to BT lines)
Hello Suzanne, thank you for adding the Council’s policy. I believe the trees are within 2 metres of sheds but not actual properties. Most of the branches on that side have been removed already.
There may be some daylight obstruction but the trees pre-date the houses.
The trees were in good condition, not rotten. I would not have objected to the removal of rotten branches or trees.
I do have photos to back up these points, but can’t seem to attach them here, should I send them to you separately?
I am scunnered to hear that even more local habitat is being destroyed as if enough destruction hasn’t already taken place with the building of the AWPR. Even if they do replace the trees, it will take many years before the same diversity of species and an equivalent habitat to the current one is reached. Trees are under more threat than ever from due to Climate Change as well as the global trade in plants bringing a host of new bugs, fungi and bacteria into the UK. The council should be protecting and enhancing our local wildlife habitats not needlessly wiping them out.
I can’t understand why they have started felling now, RSPB guidelines are very clear about the possibility of birds nesting until mid/the end of August and for felling to take place after such time. I am inclined to agree with George McKay’s comment about a proper inspection not really taking place. I think it would be extremely unusual for only one bird to nest in that size of habitat (not to mention birds that are nesting nearby and using the insects on the trees for a food source for their young).
The Scots Pine tree is excellent for wildlife and supports a large variety of insects which in turn helps support the surrounding bird population. Furthermore, Scots pine seeds are a favourite food for red squirrels. I would have thought that Aberdeen City Council would be trying to increase not decrease potential red squirrel habitat in order to be in line with their partnership with the ‘Saving Scotland’s Red Squirrel Project’. It is especially surprising as red squirrels have been spotted as nearby as the Camphill Estate (see ‘squirrel sightings’ on scottishsquirrels.org.)
As these mature trees are supporting an abundance of insects, there is the possibility of bats also relying on the trees. Again, it is the wrong time of year to fell a bat roost, as at this time of year breeding females may be using them as maternity sites. Even if they aren’t using the trees for roosting, bats use tree lines as linear features which guide them on their commuting routes between their roosting location and foraging areas. Bats are a protected species and it may be worthwhile for Diane McKay to get in touch with the Bat Conservation Trust.
Why did they waste time sending out a survey when in the end they don’t go along with the majority of written replies but instead ‘mind read’ what the silent majority want? Is this just to tick a box to say they have ‘consulted’ the community? This is not democracy. It saddens me that we can’t rely on the council to play by the rules and that despite many good reasons for not destroying this habitat, especially at this time of year, they go ahead and do it anyway.
Hi Diane, Sorry this has happened and the council has been so intransigent. City councils tend to listen more to group action. From my experience of getting a wildflower meadow established, there’s a procedure which will give the best chance of yielding the results you want.
Firstly see if there is a local Councillor who holds surgeries which handle complaints like this. They are actively looking for issues to pursue and will be in a strong position of authority in the council. They will be likely to listen to you and act for you, especially if you tell them there is a majority of people on board.
They will also suggest further action, maybe joining a Community Council and also rallying a few people with .placards.
That would be a photo opportunity which would get you noticed by the newspapers who like to have a bit of drama to report, with very strong preference for a photo to illustrate it.
There’s also your local Green representatives who would be likely to want to help – maybe bring it up with the Scottish Government. Don’t give up. The silent majority needs some opposition!
As someone who Ives in Lewisvale We are all happy to have the trees removed and the area cleaned up . There are more trees getting planted I have seen the damage the branches have caused. There are a few young people who live here and who own there home.
Hello Ann,
Thank you very much for joining this conversation. As I said earlier, we are new to the area – perhaps you can shed some light on the situation and explain what damage has been done? It seems to me that there are very few branches at the Lewisvale side – most of them seem to have been removed already.
Do you feel that it’s necessary to fell the whole belt of trees?
When you say “We are ALL happy to have the trees removed” how many people does that include? – In response to the Council’s letter, only 6 people in the whole area (52 households) stated that they were in favour of felling the trees.
Also, please could you explain how removing the trees will “clean up” the area?
I don’t see how the age of residents or their home ownership status has any bearing on the issue, so I’m not sure of the point you are making – presumably the residents made the choice to purchase a property adjacent to trees.
I am sorry to read here that your column is going to end, Suzanne. I do hope we will be able to continue to read your take on things in a different format. I will very much miss your observations on local matters, especially with regard to The Donald!
Suzanne says – thank you for the kind words now and in the past. I’m not nearly done with Donald J Trump and local chicanery yet, but this format will come to an end. Cheerio
The malt mill (downstairs) I have been going to the live venues for 6years 2 years ago I moved to the highlands . So I am 200 miles away I still went to it I would spend 5hours on the train to get to the malt mill (downstairs) so if I can go 200 miles to get to the venue, THIS PERSON SHOULD BE ASHAMED AND NAMED why did he move there in the first place if he new there was noise duh
So pleased that the resilient residents and businesses have made such a fantastic recovery after the devastating floods. It says much for the incredible community spirit of this wonderful village. We look forwarding to holidaying again in Ballater in October in the apartment flooded next to the golf course, in October.
Any truth in the rumour that the SNP have rolled out a Getting It Right For Every Calf(GIRFEC) scheme, in which every calf will have a named cow, usually Daisy or Buttercup, assigned to keep an eye on them and share information, or would this be a really stupid thing to do, on the basis that the implementation of such a scheme would be out with the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament?
The Capitol was a working cinema well into the nineties, seeing out its final years showing art house and non-English language films. I know. because I went there regularly
Leave Kelly alone!!!!! Your rag of a publication is a disgrace. Go and hound someone else!!!! And no, I’m not related to her, just visited her property a few times and adopted 2 rabbits.
Suzanne writes: thank you Mrs Duncan for your opinions. I will be writing more about Northfield Animal Haven and resuming investigations in the near future – a little legal matter I started will conclude soon, and then I am free to investigate and I can barely wait. I think it’s wonderful that an old article of mine still commands comments. You think AV is a ‘disgrace;’ I’m equally convinced that benefit fraud, using photos of other people’s animals (without permission) claiming you need money to rescue the animals pictued, and claiming to ‘rescue all farm animals’ while part of your business is sending some to market and all that implies, etc. is rather disgraceful, but there you go. Next time you visit, have a look at the animals being raised for sale, and let us know how it is morally possible to ‘rescue’ one animal and sell others (which will likely end up in the food chain). People who were donating money based on ads which omitted this little fact were shocked when they found this out You might also ask the Cables when you visit about the father’s Facebook post in which the ‘problem’ of my articles is something he’d solve with an AK-47. Have a good day.
awww no mention of the celtic supporters flying the Palestinian flag.
Good of you to mention about the poor Palestinians though as not enough is said or done in scotland about it. Glad to see at least we have an SNP Friends of Palestine group though 🙂
Lies regarding Northfield Animal Haven in an attempt to defame them to encourage support for other so called “Reputable” charities that your reporter supports
[ This post itself appears defamatory, but as it does not directly accuse a named individual of a specific wrong, we’ll allow it as an opinion. Aberdeen Voice strives to maintain the credibility of its content by scrutinising the factual basis behind all presented as fact. We DO slip up occasionally, and we are always appreciative of those who point out errors in order that we can amend/correct thereby maintaining the standards we are determined to uphold.
Therefore, I would be interested in knowing where we have published lies about Northfield Animal Haven as you strongly suggest in your post. Please point these out. Provide specifics. As Editor, I will personally review and amend as necessary. No writer/contributor is above the integrity of our publication and the value of reliable, verifiable facts. I trust you will assist me in finding these lies you refer to. Thank you. Fred Wilkinson – Editor. ]
Excellent article. Good links, well worth reading.
You may be interested in knowing that your couple of sentences mentioning old friends Northfield Animal Haven has resulted in an absolute blizzard of ‘hate posts’ on their fb page. It appears that you and others from AV are responsible for everything that has gone wrong with them in the past year.
My personal favourite is the blame they manage to attach to AV and undefined ‘haters’ who caused dad / ‘granda’ Eric Cable to be crushed loading horses onto a transporter because of flooding in their fields. This sad excuse for an ‘Animal Haven’ along with their more moronic supporters seem incapable of apportioning blame where it belongs. Think about what she claims. 17 terrified horses ALL with cuts? Either they stupidly tried to load a herd of 17 horses onto some sort of transporter at one time resulting in bedlam or they did multiple loads all resulting in injuries to the horses in addition to poor old Eric. Either way, complete and utter misjudgement and mismanagement on their part. Fools!
Northfield Animal Haven
May 21 •
WARNING VERY IRATE RANT COMING *********
This is Kelly just so everyone knows it is me that is saying this. This rant is directed at the evil twisted scumbags that thought it would be a good idea to try and discredit me so that I couldnt give evidence against you at court. I still stood up and gave my evidence, even after all the crap and my car being damaged on the day of the court and I have a judges ruling that this information was supplied purely for this reason, the information that was passed over was incorrect and very misleading to paint me as the baddest person and very untrustworthy. The judge saw right through you and your family. Now because of these actions it has had a major effect on the sanctuary with regards to donations, after all who would donate to a scammer or a drug dealer we were hit badly by floods and have had no way of fixing the flood damage. I arranged alternative grazing for the animals here some of which should not have even been attempted to load and moved and what happens my Dad who is 73 gets knocked over and trampled by horses that are so scared, so now I have 17 terrified horses all with cuts etc from trying be loaded and they are now stressed and very anxious. I would suggest that anyone who has shared the articles from the Aberdeen voice or anyone who has jumped on the bandwagon and spouted this crap had better remove all information as Monday morning even if I have to sell my car to do it I will be going after everyone who has done damage to this sanctuary.
Northfield Animal Haven
10 hrs •
Hey all just another update for you. Last week my mum ranted about the carry on that she has been having and while trying to move the horses to other grazing, my granda got hurt well its worse than we thought my granda who is 73 has a broken bone in his back so I hope all you haters out there are pleased with yourselves Sammy x
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In addition it also appears that you are picking on a poor misunderstood innocent (who, remember is disabled and has a brain tumour} and that you are defying a court order in doing so!
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Eric Cable to Northfield Animal Haven
August 28 at 1:02pm •
well well I see the arsehole has once again reared her ugly head (Suzanne Kelly)Whats wrong dear have you been given orders by your cronies and you know who they are to try coming after Kell once again The day you decide to do the honourable thing and actually come up and see the animals for yourself but you won’t you lying piece of trash because then you would have to print a retraction Fuck you you horrible human being
Comments
Laura Green Thought she had gone to London. Horrible troll
Like • Reply • August 28 at 2:01pm
Northfield Animal Haven Sadly not but another article with my sanctuaries name in it so gone against a court order etc xxx
Like • Reply • August 28 at 2:17pm
Laura Green Looks like they need reporting again then. Silly silly fools xxx
Like • Reply • 1 • August 28 at 2:18pm
Northfield Animal Haven Yep phoned the police this morning xxxx
Like • Reply • 2 • August 28 at 2:19pm
Sally Ragu-Lady Drakeley Some people are just assholes and don’t deserve the time of day your conscience us clear is this idiots
Like • Reply • August 28 at 3:36pm
Eric Cable Afurther point to show her for the liar she is and mentioned that Kelly has posted pic’s of other peoples animals All the pictures on here are on OUR land and with our camera’s .This can be readily checked with GPS technology . Kelly pointed out to me that one picture was sent to her to let her see the pony that was coming down on the ferry from the islands but you go Suzanne I have told you one way to prove your and i use the word loosely veracity
Northfield Animal Haven Sadly not but another article with my sanctuaries name in it so gone against a court order etc xxx
Northfield Animal Haven Never been convicted or sent to jail for any benefit fraud. Photos of animals were sent to me and I posted, the cows that we were taking in can be verified through the council. The ponies are not fake and are here all of them including the ones that are very similar to the ones i posted but I publicly apologised for the mix up and still the crap continued.
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WOW! I do believe that the manner in which any professional group or organisation responds to criticism reflects the mentality of those concerned. I think we can all judge for ourselves the type of people you are dealing with.
Please keep up the good work in exposing these and others like them!
Suzanne Kelly says: It is with huge relief that the NP scheme is not being rolled out. Flawed, undemocratic, Orwellian some say – it was dealt a blow by the courts. Far from ‘getting it right for every child’ this sought to treat all children and families with a one-size-fits-all mentality starting on the assumption the parents are inferior guardians to state-appointed ones. Glad – very glad – to see this dealt such a blow. Please let’s ensure it doesn’t come back. Time to start looking at its architects and the propagandists who helped it along, not least the people behind the ‘SHANARRI’ song who happily took taxpayer money to produce the worst drivel I have ever seen used to support any government programme anywhere, ever.
hey suzanne keep up the good work exposing these dubious organisations if they were rational people running them and charities there wouldn’t be any threats or anger involved against you or the news articles making thoughts as to why there so angry
I considered putting some money into this scheme as it seems worthy and green and is offering seven percent ROI. However at that rate I would get back my investment after fourteen years, and in order to ‘double my money ‘ I would then have to be able to sell someone my shares. And that’s likely to be the tricky bit.I don’t think there’ll be many buyers around that far down the line. The project itself isn’t going to have a great lifespan.
This is a very negative article on what should be an exceptionally positive project for Aberdeen. “Concerns emerge around ACE energy share offer” what concerns? That your money may be at risk if you invest, is this not the same for any investment made? Should the author of this article not then print a warning on every investment scheme out there? The only value from this article is that prospective investors should do due diligence.
Who’s to say those investing are actually looking for a return on their investment, some may just be willing to contribute to a local environmental project, which could kick start sustainability and green living in communities up and down the Dee and Don. Do people donate to Greenpeace expecting financial return?
The useful information in this article is the last line and link to the FCA, maybe a positive piece with the same warning would have been more appropriate.
Suzanne Kelly says: sorry I’m not sorry. I can see both a potentially good green investment as well as pitfalls. City council employee Laing’s scheme was advertised in a taxpayer-funded city green newspaper, with no reference to the connection between Laing and the city; and there is the little matter of advertising to the investing public that they will ‘more than double their investment’. The idea for this story came to me from a source who is equally concerned about this double-your-money promise. Whether any authorities are looking into elements of this scheme and the promise, I am not at liberty to confirm or deny (but don’t be surprised if there are developments). Please do see the other comment though. In essence, the city is endorsing a city employee’s scheme and thereby lending ACC weight to the share sales and the remarkable doubling promise. This article serves as a reminder that people should not be swept up by the city’s greenwash or grand promises. Let’s hope it all goes smoothly and everyone ends up rich. If not, you can’t say I didn’t raise concerns. Of course, you a welcome to write your own fact-based article for AV should you wish.
The double your money “promise” is based on the lifetime of the scheme 20 plus years, and based on case studies elsewhere in the country and across Europe. This is a long term investment clearly stated on the literature. It’s not a get rich scheme, anyone who thinks or thought otherwise never read the proposal. https://www.renewablesfirst.co.uk/hydropower/hydropower-learning-centre/what-would-the-return-on-investment-be/ http://riversproject.eu/pdf/Comparative%20study.pdf
The risks are also clearly stated on the share brochure section 12 and again in section 15, covering the cost of contingency loans, dry summer’s fluctuation in wholesale prices.
Given that 4.6billion of taxpayer’s money is used to fund green projects, are we really supposed to be repulsed that an advertisement in a local council (tax payers) funded publication was used, to gain support for a local community project.
Why should there be a reference to Laing’s employment with ACC and this project?
Suzanne says: again, since it is lost on you, the city endorsed a scheme run by one of its officers without clarifying this material fact. I am delighted you read every detail. Do you know that not everyone does read the fine print, and when someone sees a director posting ‘c’mon show me the colour of your money and I will more than double it’ without referring anyone to the fine print, there might be an issue? Perhaps you don’t think so – and BTW what is your involvement if any to the company, council or the director? – but for people like me who have worked in advertising, for the CAB in principle and quite likely from the point of view of some regulators, there are some issues here. Actually, if you factor inflation into the equation, then it’s impossible to say that you are doubling the actual value of today’s money over 20 years, isn’t it?
Let me start by stating I have no connection to the company, any director or the council. I happened across the project by chance while out photographing wildlife on the Don, as an engineer I was interested in the technology and researched the project. The statement you refer to “ C mon show me the colour of your money and I will more than double it” it taken from Sinclair’s face book page not the ACE energy page, so I take this as being targeted at his friends, not the general public. If you had bothered to read the literature on http://acenergy.org.uk/ you would have already seen that the risks of investment are not in small print, but full section (12) on page 31 same font size the rest of the print throughout the document. You would have also seen that Sinclair is not the only employee of ACC involved in the project. ACC also appear on the share document along with a number of public and private organizations.
ACC’s green times print articles on lots of projects both public and private initiatives. This is an informative publication designed to let citizens know what’s going on, given that ACC is one of the biggest, if not the biggest employer in Aberdeen, I’d be sure that plenty other employees of ACC are involved in voluntary organizations doing there bit for the environment. ACC also appear on the share document along with a number of public and private organizations.
The article you have written is very lazy attempt at investigative journalism IMO, of the 3 questions put to ACE #2 &3 are the same, IMO you engaged in trolling of an individual’s face book page and apart from the warning that investments may go up or down, has absolutely no substance to suggest any concern, given the dramatic title of the article. It is tactless gossip.
I would be correct in saying that the surname Laing is purely coincidental and Sinclair Laing is no relation to Jenny Laing (ACC ((Labour) current administration leader)
Great stuff Dod, these are superb pictures. Since they started work on the AWPR near us I’ve seen too many badger casualties, as you say they’re creatures of habit and digging up their routes and homes creates havoc. They are amazing animals, it’s a tragedy that we’re more likely to see them dead than alive.
i would have thought Aberdeen – Ellon – Peterhead – Fraserburgh – Banff – Portsoy – Buckie – Elgin would be successful/profitable railway line. it could cut down on traffic as i think car owners would prefer to drive from A to B rather than use a bus, but if there was a choice of a train then i think alot of people would take a train rather than drive.
I look forward to reading Ms Manclarks submission to the court as I think I can see where this is leading. Nice piece of investigative journalism Suzanne my only criticism is why drip feed what you have? As a reader I can’t understand why you can’t hit this subject with the complete proven facts and put this sorry affair behind you? I’m sure then if well founded the appropriate authorities can then be notified which seems like everyone from animal welfare, DWP, and the Inland Revenue to step in and if deemed take the appropriate action if required? Even my new social media ‘friend’ Eric I’m sure would agree on this?
Suzanne writes – dear Paul, I agree about drip-feeding – but in this case Manclark’s letter to the court alone deserves a full article; and if I’d condensed everything into one piece a good deal of detail would have been cut. I also want to write a piece in this series about why it’s important for an investigative journalist to be free of any smears, and what my thoughts were as I watched while the NAH contingent made social media posts claiming they started legal action – ridiculous. I / AV have not been approached by police / lawyers on this or any issue. Now that after a year of having to stay silent while ludicrous posts and claims were made on social media, there will be one article in this series devoted to dispelling these too. Series of articles? I might turn it into a book 🙂 . AV have approached Fiona Manclark seeking her comments/response before publication; we will do the same to her and NAH before the next article. As is always the case, and has been offered to them before, anyone can submit a fact-based article to AV and we will publish it (as long as it isn’t illegal, isn’t obscene and is readable, we publish).
Paul Gall’s last sentence is clearly aimed at me. It’s unnecessary, insolent and disrespectful. Are the owners of this site happy with contributors using the comment function to have a pop like that?
Good to see everything laid out in order and clearly defined. I look forward to your next article which will hopefully reveal what Fiona Manclark’s submission to the court actually contained 🙂
Good to see everything laid out in order and clearly defined. I look forward to your next article which will hopefully reveal what Fiona Manclark’s submission to the court actually contained 🙂
What can you say about this appalling trade other than to say how shocked I was to hear items are being sold here in Aberdeen. Apart from the cruelty I would have thought it is a very bad commercial decision, far better to sell a designer line by someone as mentioned above Stella McCartney. All the time I was there last Saturday no one went into the shop, I can’t see them surviving. The last fur shop in Aberdeen was on Union Street and closed down about forty years ago because people realised then they should not wear fur. There seems to be a generation now that a few don’t care.
Really looking forward to attending.David our Chairman has worked tirelessly arranging the whole event with Lydia Kemunto. Really pleased that we have over 90 guests coming.Its going to be an amazing night.Thank you to everyone who has bought a ticket and will be attending the night.
I’m not sure why we have such a problem with fur, these folks were shouting and ranting outside a fashion shop while next door the co op was selling several hundred bits of dead animal for human consumption. And were completed unmolested. My guess is that most of these protestors were typical muesli eating surbanites with the usual sentimental view of animals.
The claim that those who buy fur could buy fake fur is utter tosh, you wear fur for comfort not appearance, we might as well demand that leather shoes should be banned and replaced with plastic
Well Colin I was one of those protesting outside and can assure you I have a much more varied diet than muesli.
In reference to you asking what’s the problem with fur then I shall enlighten you. The animals bred for fur live in tiny cramped cages covered in their own faeces and urine along with that of those stored above them. They are often covered in sores and have painful deformities caused by living in such inhumane conditions. The day the door finally opens is to drag them to have anal or vaginal electrocution and having the fur removed while many are still alive. They are then tossed into a skip to die a prolonged agonising death. Most often fur is produced in countries with no animal welfare procedures. Now although the meat industry is brutal it’s regulated so apparently suffering is minimal. I don’t eat meat or wear leather because I don’t see a product I see a life and wearing a corpse just doesn’t appeal to me.
I shall also be attending the protest tomorrow regarding farm animals and the meat industry. I’m sure you realise you can’t make a point if you protest everything at once hence different protests different days.
In response to Colin’s comment; how very typical of an animal consuming person. if you actually researched what the fur trade is all about, you will be left in know doubt how different it is to our farming methods and consumption – I might add I was one of those protesters shouting outside the fashion shop selling fur, and I do not eat meat or wear leather – if you want to get all analytical let me explain; the animals murdered for fur have no other item of their body used..I.E no poor community is eating the meat! The financial benefit from fur is not for local improvements or better economical development. It is for an elite market of fashion designers and retailers who charge extortionate amounts of money…
If you wish to see the same people who you assume don’t care about our consumption of farming animals then please do pop along to see us protesting on World day for farmed animals outside M&S tomorrow. Humans have to evolve, we do not need to eat or wear animal skin/fur….there is plenty proof of this. I might add that is a great idea ban leather and wear plastic…now that is the future 😀 (slightly moderate)
In reply to the utter tosh spoken by Colin, may I just say that I was (and will continue to be) one of the protester’s shouting outside the shop whose name shall not pass my lips (i wouldn’t give them the advertising space).
As Fiona quite rightly points out, these unfortunate creatures are either bred in captivity, not knowing what it means to live a life of freedom exhibiting natural behaviour and the day of being liberated from the cages keeping them imprisoned is the day that they are removed only to be anally or vaginally electrocuted, gassed or drowned in order to preserve the quality of their fur. The carcasses are then nothing more than an unimportant by-product to be tossed away like rubbish. Being an HND animal care student I have studied animal welfare as part of my course and can tell you that there are absolutely NO animal welfare laws in countries such as China where a majority of fur is derived from.
To say that fur is worn for comfort and not appearance is so far from the point as to beggar belief. If that was the case why aren’t we all wearing it? Why isn’t it sold in every clothes shop at a price that everyone can afford instead of extortionate prices in select shops that I presume you don’t shop in, Colin?
Your guess that I am a “muesli eating suburbanite with the usual sentimental view of animals” is only partly correct. I admit to loving muesli but as a vegan I probably have a wider (and more nutritious and healthy) diet than yourself and as for the “usual sentimental view” of animals – i spent the first 18 years of my life consuming meat before I educated myself on the barbarity of the industry and 5 years ago came to the realisation that I was being hypocritical by consuming ANY animal product, so in this I find myself agreeing with him about the abandonment of leather and replacing it with manmade microfibre products instead.
Maybe if you wish to educate yourself/argue your point Colin, may I suggest that you should come along the next time we hold a demonstration?
unfortunately so much has been spent on the oversized bypass all the finance for transport will be used up for some years to come,it is going to be 200m over budget at least.
Wow! What an amazing article! Not only have you exposed this so called ‘animal sanctuary’ and its owner, Kelly Cable, as being a complete fraud…..You have backed up everything you have printed with incontrovertible evidence!
I do not believe I have ever seen such an article posted either in the press or on line with such detailed factual evidence…..Wiki leaks aside
The only thing more worrying than the evidence you have provided is the messages of support she still manages to elicit on her own face book page……Quite amazing!
Her defence of your article is even more outstanding, as she attempts to deflect any serious issues you have made by trying to twist your comments and concentrate on ‘non issues’ while ignoring and failing to deny or reply to the many other accusations made against her.
Below I have copied her first two replies to your article which she has reposted on her own personal page…..although not on the NAH page strangely? I am sure many more comments will follow, but this will give you the gist of her MO…..
Kelly Cable shared Suzanne Kelly’s post.
13 hrs •
Anyone who reads this, hopefully will see how much crap this woman speaks, still waiting for all these people whom im supposed to be under investigation from to come and see me. It also amazes me how she can send screenshots of posts from a page that was mysteriously hacked last year and I cant even access it. I have stated a few things against her but yet she wont sue me mmmm wonder why she doesnt want to face me in court, give her her 15 mins of fame, after all that is what she wants’
Lets have a good look at this reply….. Lies, Lies more lies and deflection!
1st sentence. The authorities concerned do not make a habit of publicizing who they investigate and at the same time she manages to completely ignore and dismiss any of the other 20 or so facts detailed in the article.
2nd sentence. If screenshots were taken at the time they were posted then they are ‘on file’ regardless of attempts to delete them at a later stage by hosts or ‘mystery hackers’.
3rd sentence. Kelly may well rue this particular comment for 2 reasons. 1) She publically denied many of these allegations on face book, which Suzanne Kelly has since offered proof of and 2) Suzanne has never offered to sue her….but has debunked Kelly’s own claims that both her and Aberdeen Voice were allowed to comment about her due to a court order. Kelly Cable has also claimed police action on her behalf and yet failed to show any proof of this. The only court action taken to date was a successful prosecution of her spokesperson Fiona Manclark by Suzanne Kelly.
Next quote….
Kelly Cable Oh and anyone that knows anything about raising chickens, know they have to be under heat till they are 4 weeks old and if you zoom into the pics you will see they have pin feathers dont get them till after 4wks age, but as soon as the ad was seen i took the chickens back, all our rescue animals can be traced as when you rehome from me you have a contract and the animal will always be under the contract unlike other sanctuaries that miss kelly supports who allows their animals to be rehomed then sold to anyone’
As this is all one sentence I will break it down to its relevant points. It implies far more than one would first assume…..
Point 1) Having zoomed into these pictures I, for one, am unconvinced that these chicks were 5 weeks old at the time of photo. (As the owner had already had them a week) However, this point is again a deflection. The chicks were advertised only a week after being sold to this person. So much for the supposed ‘contract’! So much for responsible re-homing! It will be interesting to see what other animals Kelly may have ‘lost track’ of which turn up in surprising places?
Point 2) Again we see ‘deflection’ …’unlike other sanctuaries that miss Kelly supports who allows their animals to be rehomed then sold to anyone’…….This is another of Kelly Cables great skills…Naming and blaming, but without actually naming! She makes constant references to ‘haters’ and other ‘charities’ and other ‘sanctuaries’, but manages to generalize whilst at the same time casting aspersions on others who may be at fault…..
Point 3) There are a number of sanctuaries that Suzanne Kelly has openly declared support for….I cannot think of any that allow their animals to be re-homed and sold other than Kelly Cable’s….and certainly none that sell animals at the mart….again the use of deflection from her own actions without actually naming anyone who may take exception or to a direct accusation…….thereby managing to spread rumour without proof and feed the paranoia of her own supporters, who are free to make their own assumptions on her face book page without any restraint from the page admin.
It is worth pointing out that Kelly should be more open about her ‘haters’ if they are truly to blame. Perhaps she should avoid using the phrase ‘other charities’ as if she were an actual charity or for that matter ‘other sanctuaries’ as she runs a re-homing centre which, in no way is to be confused with a sanctuary which offers lifelong care for its residents.
It is only when you take a good close look at the people who continue supporting her that you begin to realise that there is an intrinsic problem that your article will not cure Suzanne.
The vocal supporters on ‘Kelly Cable’s’ own face book page are a self supporting group of sad misfits who feed each other with their sense of paranoia and fall into several categories
Category1) Those who offer their loud support and even have the nerve to criticize Suzanne Kelly for not ‘seeing for herself’ when they have never met Kelly Cable or seen the ‘Haven’ for themselves…
Leah Crysta Rumens i want to know is how the sweet fuck(excuse my language) does someone who lives in NORFOLK ENGLAND know and has contact with someone in ABERDEEN SCOTLAND……??????????
How true indeed Leah, when you live in Norwich…..have never met Kelly or been to her ‘haven’
Or the outspoken Laura Green who admits that she has never met Kelly but would love to come visit….
Category 2) Those who know not of which they talk…..These are a mixture of those who have bought or adopted animals from Kelly, who may well have been turned down for adoption by other more discerning agencies, and those who have gratefully turned over the care of their animals to her and will vigorously stand by their decision because they do not know better and it would make them look bad.
Category3) It’s not all bad news….Some praise for Kelly Cable! NAH supports in my opinion some of the most illiterate, intellectually challenged, ignorant, foul mouthed, aggressive and paranoid supporters I have ever seen on any animal welfare site. For this alone she should receive the thanks of bona fide charities at least.
Suzanne Kelly says – Dear Pete, thank you for this comment – very rich in detail indeed. Thanks too for showing readers what Kelly Cable posts / allows on her facebook page (if not the Northfield FB page). You read early articles, were neutral, and asked both Kelly and I to respond to questions. I did; she didn’t. You approached this with an open mind which, IMO, her supporters lack.
Suzanne Kelly says – Dear Pete, thank you for this comment – very rich in detail indeed. Thanks too for showing readers what Kelly Cable posts / allows on her facebook page (if not the Northfield FB page). You read early articles, were neutral, and asked both Kelly and I to respond to questions. I did; she didn’t. You approached this with an open mind which, IMO, her supporters lack.
Who is bringing the police to account for their atrocious partisan behaviour? Arguably it’s worse than Trump’s as they are supposed to uphold the law not act as a private force.
Suzanne Kelly responds – the Police were encouraged to, and agreed to, create a special policing policy for the Menie Estate – they were badgered by Trump’s people to treat the area ‘specially’. Let’s hope that no journalists will ever, ever be arrested in the UK again for the crime of investigating a story and trying to help people (in this case trying to find out when the Forbes family would get running water restored). Here are some links. PS – the police are unable (unwilling?) to say how much it costs the taxpayer every time they accompany Trump when he flies into Scotland, but I did get them to reveal a cancelled visit cost thousands in police salaries, expenses. Ridiculous and must stop. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13116768.Police__sided_with_Trump__in_golf_course_row/ and http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/film-makers-arrested-at-donald-trump-estate-accuse-grampian-police-of-cover-up-1-2612269
Personally, I would only support those charity’s that follow the “REach” code;
“All members of RE.A.CH. (Reputable Animal Charities) are registered animal charities that conform to the following declaration:- They are no kill rescues who will never deliberately breed from their animals or fund their rescues from the sale of animals. Members will strive to provide the best environment for their rescues, the best veterinary care and when rehoming animals or releasing wildlife, to do this in the best interests of the animals involved”
Suzanne says – thanks John – there is a reason organisations like REACH exist – and in my opinion, what I’ve found at Northfield makes it clear why that’s the case.
Hope they keep the acoustics. The Music Hall holds many memories, from the Clash to Southside Johnny to more recently Jackie Kay at the Culture Club, and more to follow. A couple of wee points – Bowie’s first Aberdeen concerts were on May 16th 1973 and Emile was born in Sunderland and moved to Alford aged four.
Why would I pay for an overpriced ticket so I can stand in 4 degrees with diagonal rain and wait for a train/bus that may or may not show up when it’s supposed to, sit on a germ-covered seat in a train full of god-knows-who making all sorts of racket, to get somewhere within several miles of where I want to end up, to have to get to where I actually want to go by some other means, when I can just get into my car which I already own (which has heated leather seats and only my own germs) that’s sitting on my driveway, and end up exactly where I want to go?
This would be a novelty for most until they realised the above. Most people that live out of Aberdeen haven’t been confined to their homes up until this point just waiting for a railway to be built. We manage just fine without this. That’s why they are spending hundreds of millions on a ROAD BASED SOLUTION. That is where the money should, and has gone…because we ALREADY have cars, buses, and HGVs.
I find it scandalous that in this day and age of environmental consciousness they are actually proposing to replace a “linear nature reserve” and a popular cycling route with particulate-belching diesel trains!
You only need to look at the “dire performance figures” (According to last month’s The Guardian article about its frequent breakdowns and delays) of the Borders Railway to see that this would be a brief novelty that would be quickly passed up for the road-based solution, on which hundreds of millions has already been spent, on which we can drive our cars, which we already own and pay for, to exactly where we are going, once we realise that spending 20 minutes in the cold. late for work, waiting for a train that probably broke down (Borders Railway, The Guardian, September 2016), is a much worse idea.
Hello Ms. Kelly- I just want to tell you how right you are about Trump and his ridiculous spokesperson. I live in the U.S. and have researched Trump. I am embarrassed that he even got on the ballot. Trump is so full of hate that he incites violence at his own rallies. His followers make death threats to his opponents and they assault protesters. He makes terrible remarks about Jews, Muslims, Latinos, Afro-Americans, women, girls, the poor, the deaf, the physically and mentally disabled, the overweight, elders, the less educated, liberals- everyone is fair game. Donald Trump pitches fear and feeds off attention. He is a: 1.Narcissist 2. Misogynist 3. Xenophobe 4. Pathological liar. 5. Power glutton 6. Money Glutton 7. Fraud 8. Racist. He knows nothing about the military, environment, world history, psychosocial issues, theology, etc. God help us if somehow he is elected and has the nuclear codes. If he wins, I head for Mexico……. …. A few years ago I watched a great film about the golf resort he built in your country. I am so sorry… He is an absolute horror of a human being. Keep him out. Good luck. Marianne Hall Kennedy, Spanaway, WA USA
Suzanne responds: Dear Ms Kennedy – thank you for your kind words and support; they come just as I am about to confront one of the Trump supporters who wrote a threatening message to me some time ago to see if they changed their mind (I doubt it). You may already know, but the next film from Anthony Baxter regarding Trump at the Menie Estate is just about to be streamed live over Facebook tomorrow at 8pm Eaastern Standard Time. All the best.
In my opinion this woman is a traitor to the Scottish people. Her family should be disgusted in her ethics. I think she should be in prison today.she is a disgrace to the people of Scotland. [post slightly altered to comply with AV policy]
This council needs to be held Accountable for what its doing to this city . striping out its history and creating eye sores around the historic center. We has the people of Aberdeen have had enough and now stand up for our history and city. no more of this
This Council is investing over £1.5m in Provost Skene’s House so rather than detracting from it we are investing in it. There is a paper going to the next Education Committee Meeting which will give you a bit of direction as to what we are proposing to do with the inside of the house. We are not going to dumb down the house and showcase Joey Harper we are going to show Aberdeen’s rich citizen of talent dating back to the 14th century. You may not like the Muse development but please do not insult the intellegence of the people by saying this Council is not investing heavily in Provost Skene’s House because we certainly are. We intend to showcase Aberdeen’s rich history which will enhance Provost Skene’s House rather than detract from it.
This Council is investing over £1.5m in Provost Skene’s House so rather than detracting from it we are investing in it. There is a paper going to the next Education Committee Meeting which will give you a bit of direction as to what we are proposing to do with the inside of the house. We are not going to dumb down the house and showcase Joey Harper we are going to show Aberdeen’s rich citizen of talent dating back to the 14th century. You may not like the Muse development but please do not insult the intellegence of the people by saying this Council is not investing heavily in Provost Skene’s House because we certainly are. We intend to showcase Aberdeen’s rich history which will enhance Provost Skene’s House rather than detract from it.
Outstanding article. Look at the maritime museum, yes it now has a glass frontage and the extension has been modernised but the original building is still there and preserved. This has to stop before it’s too late.
Good to see Jon Symons making a contribution on AV. Hey Jon maybe some life in the old dog after next years local government elections? Enjoyable and informative read….
Willie Young:- “You may not like the Muse development but please do not insult the intellegence of the people by saying this Council is not investing heavily in Provost Skene’s House because we certainly are.”
Firstly the article above never mentioned Council investment in PSH but let’s not worry about facts when point scoring, eh William?
This is the same PSH the Council stated in the original Ryden prospectus they might even sell so let’s not get too righteous and protective now. It’s also the same PSH Muse once suggested might make a good entrance sand reception area for the Marriott short stay hotel.
It’s
The adverse Press and looming election date may have persuaded you to invest in PSH – at long last -and that’s a good thing.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the work currently being done under PSH “accidentally” brought it crashing down (cheaper than hiring a demolition squad and you can remain blameless, eh Wullie?) and a another glass and steel monstrosity built in its’ place. This council should remember who put them into power and who has the opportunity to replace them.
Suzanne Kelly says: A spokesperson for Muse sent this response; I had requested to go onto site to take photos, but it is apparently too busy for this to be safe. The response:
“From day one in the process, the Muse team were clear on the historical importance of Provost Skene’s House and the significance it has to those living and working in Aberdeen.
“The significant investment being made by the development partners to transform Provost Skene’s House once again into a facility to be enjoyed by everyone in the city, is a testament to the importance the building will have in the Marischal Square development.
“We believe the new civic space around the building will give Provost Skene’s House a level of prominence it has not had for some time. The works involved are in the supply of utilities to prepare the building for this new lease of life and there is absolutely no issue or danger involved with the foundations of the building from this development phase or any of the earlier construction activities around Marischal Square.”
i guess the only reference to last nights fireworks display can be described as “damp squib”
pity the council can’t/won’t reschedule due to costs etc 🙁
I’m disgusted with Sarah Malone too….a complete abuse of power. Never a truer saying then ‘money talks’ and I’m sure her living quarters and amenities have increased dramatically since accepting her ‘powerful’ post! I’m sure Ms Malone Bates and her husband are now enjoying the benefits of being a ‘power’ couple in Aberdeen.
What a waste of time for you all, all those years attempting to talk President Trump and he eases into the white house with the same easy manner he got his gold course at menie built, you losers must be gutted.
Your article misses the “allegedly” when discussing the woman without water for 5 years, careful you don’t get sued. We all know it’s allegedly not true.
Suzanne Kelly says-hi Bill; in keeping with time-honoured tradition your attempts at vitriolic comment are all off base. Michael Forbes did repair the broken water pipe just recently; he was sent a 3 page rambling letter by reply. The Forbes had unreliable water, no water or sludge for 5 years; like the repair this is verified.
Trump saw his name and tens of millions of dollars wiped off Middle East projects and suffered other losses when the ban petition was live. The loser is the POTUS elect and no one else.
Fighting against racism, sexism and nationalism wherever it comes from is worthwhile however amused you are by it. By the way we still have a racketeering and a rape charge pending on Mr Trump- we shall see what comes out of these. But as ever nice to have you back Bill; lost track of how many times you quit reading AV for good. Have a nice day.
Note to Suzanne and other moderators. Please be reminded that Bill Stephens is actually George Smith – who is banned. Much as I know some of you like to have your bit of fun with him, he is banned for good reasons which have been explained here. I am allowing recent comments to stand, but will remove all further posts by George/Bill, and any responses which are left without context as a result of their removal.
IMO You have yourself to blame for your life issues, perhaps stopping looking down your nose at people would be a first step, you’re no better than anyone else, your opinions are yours, if someone has a different opinion it doesn’t mean they’re wrong and to be derided.
You have no respect for others who don’t agree with you.
Suzanne Kelly says: thank you for this string of platitudes. Do I look my nose down on racists? Absolutely. When you talk about opinions did you mean anything specifically? Evolutionary theory is scientific fact; creationism is an opinion with no factual basis. If you mean my opinions about racism and sexism – I absolutely deride anyone whose ‘opinions’ are that either are ok – and I will never acquiesce, compromise on these fundamentals. Plenty of people disagree with me – most do so on specific points not generalisations, and there is always room in an open mind to entertain logical counterpoint: if you have any logical counterpoint, please say what you mean.
Hello again George Smith/Bill Stephens. Congrats on creating your third user identity, equally as objectionable and obnoxious as the previous two… Jeez your on a roll – how do you manage?
Please do not bother to respond to Suzanne’s request for you to elaborate on what you have said. We know what you are about …. all the more reason not to want you about.
I’m so sorry to read you’re having a difficult time at the moment, Suzanne, & I send you my best wishes for things to be resolved quickly; I’m also sorry that you have received unsympathetic (to put it mildly) comments about this from one of your readers. Kind regards, Carolyn.
Not necessarily unless it can be proven that the animal’s welfare had deliberately been put at risk. All they can do is serve a notice of warning to improve matters within a certain amount of time and then take animals into custody if this does not happen. As long as animals are being fed/watered, looked after appropriately with proper shelter and are kept free from avoidable pain, injury, suffering and disease then their hands are tied. They will only take animals if their welfare is in immediate danger but if there are 170 animals finding places for them within the Drumoak rescue centre would be nigh on impossible unless other REPUTABLE sanctuaries (of which there are a few in Aberdeenshire/Angus/Morayshire) can step in to provide assistance (although they all have the welfare of their own animals to put first) but seeing how these have all been shunned by the Cables in the past I can see no reason to help them apart from the fact that none of us wish to see an innocent animal suffer.
You’d have to be Donald Trump to think this was a remotely acceptable or proper way of behaving – our local paper accepting a massive freebie in the form of rent-free accommodation from the very organisation our newspapers are supposed to keep under scrutiny.
Without doubt the Cable family have overstepped the mark this time. Personally, I have no doubt that this incident was originally nothing more than a case of unfortunate circumstances. Let’s face it, incidents with unsecured food stores and Shetland Ponies are hardly unknown.
However on this occasion, their talent for sensationalising events in order to maximise sympathy for themselves, possibly in the hope of securing some donations from their savant followers has hopefully backfired.
It would appear that in order to avoid any possible blame being laid at their door for yet another animal death at their so called ‘haven’, they have concocted what they consider to be a suitable cover story blaming ‘haters’, mysterious ‘activists’ and even alluding that AV’s Suzanne Kelly is to blame and actually responsible for this supposed attack on their ‘haven’ is to say the least disgusting and I hope that this is taken seriously by the appropriate authorities and investigated by the Police, the Scottish SPCA and the governments appointed animal welfare agency in Inverurie.
The scary thing is that the Cable family are unable to accept being wrong in any shape or form. Their default response to anybody questioning the things they do is either denial or deflection. If that does not work, then Step 2 is to intimate that the person commenting is a ‘hater’ or a ‘Vegan’ or cast aspersions on their character in the hope that they back off. Step 3 is to suggest that police or solicitors are going to be involved in the belief that most people will not pursue the matter in case they end up in an expensive court case. Step 4 has now been auctioned. Stick their heads in the sand and shut down communications with the outside world until their critics get bored and go away.
I don’t know about you, but I do not feel the need to lose interest in this particular ‘can of maggots’.
These people need to be exposed and prosecuted!
Suzanne says – thank you for this comment Peter. Readers should know that quite a while back Peter read one of my articles on NAH, and sent in questions for me and for Kelly Cable. I answered him with facts; and pretty much since that time, Kelly Cable and NAH supporters have subjected Peter to a considerable amount of abuse for his trouble.
Well done, Suzanne – another excellent article. The lack of unbiased coverage, or even just a mention of some things, of local goings-on in our local media is appalling – the local TV news (on both BBC & STV) does a better job than Aberdeen Journals, but even that’s not saying much.
Suzanne says – thank you Carolyn – the only positive thing I can say about how AJL historically operates is that if not for them, I’d likely never felt the need to make my attempts to do the reporting I thought AJL should have done.
I hope you keep us all updated as to any further actions either NAH make, or you personally have to make? I feel that these are potentially dangerous people. They do not appear to have any boundaries! My concerns are not only limited to the animals in their care, but to the deluded people who they have sucked into their supporters group. It seems to me that the Cable’s take advantage of people, some of whom may have special needs. These people may possibly be in need of support as well.
Suzanne says – thank you Peter; and you are not the first person to suggest there is danger (after all, there are now several documented threats and two police reports filed by me about them). As for a supporter’s group, one of the people cheated out of thousands suggested that a meeting could be called to get everyone with a grievance together – this may yet happen)
As predicted in my previous post. Please see above. Step 2 was used first, intimating the ‘enemy’ is simply a fool. I see that steps 3 and 4 have been actioned by Kelly Cable at Northfield Animal Haven.
I have no idea where the references regarding another daughter is concerned. Perhaps one of her supporters who follow this page would care to clarify? I can not speak on behalf of AV but I am confident your comments WILL be published.
I have no idea of the threats made to her last year other than her stating that threats had been made. Again I would like to see a direct quote of these threats.
Finally Kelly has published that she would rather put her animals to sleep than let other sanctuaries take them.
She is right about one thing. The animals in her care are her responsibility, and for any of them to die in such dubious circumstances as has been described and for that not to be reported to the police, should be considered as an act of gross negligence at the very least.
Her comments also suggest that she looks forward to her day in court facing Suzanne Kelly ‘and I look foward to meeting this woman in court to show her as the liar she is, she started this campaign 22 months ago, i was threatened and still get threats daily because of this woman and her story telling.’
I am not very knowledgeable about these things, but perhaps there is someone reading this who knows how to set up a fund to finance Suzanne or AV to make this a reality?
These people need to be publicly shown as the frauds that they are so that good people are not taken advantage of any more!
Kelly Cable
11 hrs · New Pitsligo ·
Hi everyone sorry havent been on, i am trying to sort out all the carry on but its rather difficult. I have seen that the story has grown arms and legs and I also seem to have another daughter, im pretty sure I only have one. No apologies will be coming from me or Northfield Animal Haven and I look foward to meeting this woman in court to show her as the liar she is, she started this campaign 22 months ago, i was threatened and still get threats daily because of this woman and her story telling. I see from a few comments the threats i was given last year are now in print, so these have all been copied too. Lastly `Northfield Animal Haven has not closed and will not close, no other sanctuaries or charities will have to look after our animals, they are my responsibilty. Thanks all xxx
Thank you Sammy McQueen for clarifying the picture. It was not AV or Suzanne Kelly who made any comment regarding you having another daughter. It was simply a genuine comment from the general public that you have used to try and mock the reporter…..nothing more than a case of wrong identity by the poster which you and your family have pounced on to try and deflect and belittle the article.
Victor Beattie
Gillian Louise Tosh – I read a lot about genuine animal charities and never hear about the kind of dishonesty perpetuated by your mother and her organisation.
Fortunately I have the screenshot available on my page that you so kindly shared 🙂
Just seen some photographs of dogs, rabbits, monkeys, and turkeys – experimented upon for the manufacture of cigarettes. Shocking. If any of the fur protestors smoke, and I do not know if they do or not, then they should not cast stones.
Suzanne says: Interesting point. However, in many countries including the UK tobacco/smoke is not tested on animals – and brands like American Spirit have no testing at all https://peoplefortheethicaltreatmentofanimals.wordpress.com/tag/american-spirit/ . However a person feels about the [IMO inexcusable, violent, horrific] world of animal testing, the life of any animal killed for fur is sacrified only for human vanity. With thousands of fabrics and fake fur, the idea anyone needs to do what is done to fur-bearing animals for human ornamentation has no place in the 21st century whatsoever.
It’s scary how close this likely is to the truth of it all. The man is a boor and his wife a statue. How in the hell are we going to live with their crap for four years? No excuse for what he’s been allowed to get away with in Scotland, either. Boors and whores seem to now be in charge of the world.
Very interesting read. I am planning a few FIR’s myself over the coming months for a local business blog, specifically about matter that the council are involved in and technology. I would maybe like to collaborate with Suzanne on something.
I Support BDS, and i hope plenty others do too. It would be interesting to see what happens when donald trump is president of USA and what he will do about the israel/palestinian troubles. If donald supports israeli illegal settlements then i would hope alot of golfers would boycott trump golf courses.
If its ok for the UK government and press to criticise Russia and Putin for its handling of of helping rid Syria of terrorists then there should be no law preventing us people campaigning for human rights abuses to stop in Palestine. If the UK government can sanction Russia then us the people can sanction Israel.
I do wonder what responsibility and authority, Aberdeen city council hold. Perhaps someone can address this thought. Does the council possess the legal authority to close this and other retail outlets in the selling of these products which are subject to this evil method of harvesting their skins?
Unfortunately not G Rennie, what is being pushed is banning of fur farms around the world, Japan, Croatia in last few weeks! and I believe Holland banned fur farming but has a time frame of closer. Slowly change are happening. It is government that is able to address importation into this country of fur. Five different government bodies control this area. We have had contact with Scottish Parliament however due to Brexit they have said until this has been addressed revising the current Fur Farming Law – which needs to go through Westminster – will not be taken on. Meanwhile fashion outlets can source and buy fur from some of the worst countries in the world that still exist.
My own experience of “pro – Palestinian” organisations is that the transparently one – sided and often viciously anti – Israeli propaganda they tend to produce is at odds with reality, to such an extent, that it is difficult to imagine how anyone could explain their position on the basis of a mere misinterpretation of history, ignorance, or over – enthusiastic support for Palestinian representation alone.
Not having sufficient time to trawl through the SPSC website, I wonder if any of their spokespersons might take the time to advise me if they ever feel the need to criticise the many terrorist groups and governments dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel and the slaughter of it’s Jewish inhabitants, uses children as human shields to protect them from retaliation, routinely attacks the civilian population of Israel and sponsors children to carry out suicide bombings on their behalf?
G. Rennie makes a very good point. Fur farms are now illegal in the UK yet we still allow the import of fur from foreign factory fur farms. We need some new international legislation along the lines of CITES so that as well as banning the trade in endangered species we can ban the import of animal products produced under conditions which would not be allowed in our own country.
And ALL the comments were from people with a WHOLESOME vested interest in making its sound, be or want to be a success. So what is the REAL impact – very little according to many traders.
As a former resident of Aberdeen and Crathes, who walked the whole Deeside line in 1976, and has covered parts of the Formartine and Buchan Way despite shrill complaints from my better half; I hope my contribution to this debate will be accepted, despite my present domicile in England.
The Deeside line was formerly very busy to Peterculter, markedly less busy to Banchory; and less busy again after that. I remember Alexander’s running double decker buses up to Ballater through summer; but holidaymakers and day trippers are not enough traffic to sustain a service all year round. Prospects for freight on Deeside would surely be very poor.
The line through Ellon was notorious as a long way to get to Aberdeen – much longer than the equivalent roads. But again, commuters could benefit – especially if Schoolhill station was reopened.
Schoolhill could provide somewhere to store trains between services if required. But it could make sense to reopen both lines together, offering the option of through journeys; and keeping the dwell time in Aberdeen station to a minimum.
On another topic, how about a station at Nigg for office workers on the Altens estate? – or am I overstating the present importance of oil?
how did you manage to make that game sound half decent ? geez that was some pretty grim stuff , hayes and rooney never turned up ( think thats the worst i’ve seen them play ) anyway 3 points and we’ll take them added bonus jumpin oer the huns.
Not sure about this. Does making the event for charity excuse the fact that it is being held in the hotel where the owner was taken off the VisitScotland site for using the ‘poof’ word? And that another of the chefs works in Trumps hotel in the Menie estate? Is the public seriously expected to endorse this event?
Suzanne Says: Thank you for your enquiry; you can write to Michael, Sheila and Molly at: Mill of Menie, Balmedie, Aberdeen AB23 8YE. I am sure they will be pleased to hear from you, even if they can’t answer all their letters.
“Three of Scotland’s finest chefs” – Nick Nairn, certainly, but given you had to state where the other two work I doubt their inclusion in the description, & I daresay the likes of Tom Kitchin, Martin Wishart & many more might agree. Have been a big fan of Aberdeen Voice since I discovered this site, but I think it has lost its edge since the superb Suzanne Kelly departed. Not much contentious content since she went, & far too many articles by local PR companies rather than independent-thinking authors.
Agree with Dorothy Bothwell’s comments above, & it’s odd to read about you endorsing, not to mention advertising, such an event given the site’s past content.
The nature and colour of our content is at the mercy of contributors Carolyn …. as it has always been. We aim to publish all that is contributed provided it does not breach our editorial criteria … as we always have. This does not equate to endorsement of content. We have from the outset endeavoured to be an impartial outlet … which has made us accessible to contributors such as Suzanne Kelly who might not find the freedom elsewhere to have their work published as close to it’s original form as possible – free from over editing/interference.
This remains the case, and we are always open to new writers/contributors. If we ever appear too much of one thing, it will almost certainly be because there is not enough of another. It’s a bit like what they say about voting … “if you don’t vote, you cant complain about the result.”
However, that’s what these comments boxes are all about…. and I thank you for at least making the effort to contribute your views. All the best – Editor.
Wishing you every success with your appeal . You do a wonderful job and deserve all the support you can get . Your members get so much out of being able to be part of your group .
How sad! I hope the decision can be reversed and the Strathcona put to good use. It deserves it.
I spent several happy years in my first job there in the 1960s. I enjoyed the interesting company: Scots of many ilks, Sassenachs such as myself and visiting research workers from all over the world. I learned the basics of several languages there. We had enjoyable trips into the hills climbing and skiing. Some lunch times one could ski just outside the building. Sadly most of my colleagues from then rest in peace.
Great to hear about this initiative and to see some of the art works on TV.
Please help us to have a piece of Street Art with an environmental theme in Calderbank near Airdrie in North Lanarkshire as a big meeting of conservation and heritage interests is to be held there on Wednesday 31 May 2017. Hope to hear from you about this.
hi i am looking for the women who helps out with young people taken them out and about aberdeen in there wheel chair she suffered a stroke herself recently i think she takes them on a friday would like to get in touch with her thks 078082634527
A bit of political mischief making here. Fact is most abuse takes place within families. You will always have examples of professionals who fail in their duties but my concerns are just WHO are you trying to protect here?
I met Ms Slater many years ago when I volunteered as an Adult Education tutor. I wish her all the best in her bid to become a councillor, I think she will be a great champion for her community.
I am an American with the Tullos name and was planing a trip to your country in October 2017 . Because of my name of course was interested in Aberdeen. But was saddened with what I’m reading about Tullos Hill. Has it gotten any better?
This is great news, just another indication that the construction industry is bouncing back. This will be great for students from both Universities and will also be good, as you mention, for local businesses in the area that will benefit from the influx of students to the area.
One of the worst aspects is the current sub-contracting of road-going tipper work to bring boulders to the site, presumably to act as foundations for the concrete work.
Around half a dozen tippers belonging to Yuill and Dodds are currently employed on the contract, their also having been employed on the AWPR.
This was the company whose vehicles brazenly crashed the picket lines during the miners’ strike in 1984-85 to transport coal from Scottish pits.
It sickens me to see Thatcher’s scabs employed on major civil engineering contracts.
Hi good afternoon I would like more information on this package please for myself and my partner. we would be thinking of coming up on the 30th from Glasgow and returning on the 2nd January.
Decades ago, my family operated salmon netting at many places around the Scottish coast, east and west, including up to the 1930s at Gardenstown. We always carried a gun in the salmon cobles, and seals found around the nets were shot. There was no difficulty in shooting from a boat on the water. The seals damaged the nets trying to get at the salmon, and in doing so let the salmon escape. The numbers that were shot ( 1 or 2 per week ) reflected the numbers of seal population at that time. I.E. the population was controlled, but not eradicated. The shot seals were left in the water, and no-one raised any complaint, as they would have realised if they had thought about it, that seals were a vermin, and the salmon netting industry was a substantial employer of local labour. A hard job, like all the other branches of the fishing industry.
And if you really want to be squeamish, I have a cutting from the Banffshire newspaper, with an item entered by my grandfather 90 years ago, warning the locals not to pick up any salmon they found on the beach, as these were ones he had laced with strychnine. But then locals were locals in those days, and not do-gooder incomers.
Personally I don’t know why we don’t eat seal-meat, as the Inuit do. I have eaten whale.
Hiya Linda, thank you so much for your very kind words, it means alot, so again thank you, we have alot coming up as next year, we celebrate our 10th anniversary ?❤️
Hello, happy to say yhat in the UK your GP CAN now prescribe CBD oil; whether or not they will seems hit and miss. Make an appointment to discuss with them and in your case tell them it definitely helps you. All the best
At Donna Nook on the English East coast the seal beach is fenced off. Public can view them quite close but not interfere and the seals look quite undisturbed.
A lot of serious subjects are discussed here but selfies are surely not the worst. The general public showing an interest is surely a positive thing if common sense prevails.
You lot. Need your heed seen to as seals need to be slaughtered properly and all as same as seagulls but you bunch of whack jobs not got a clue and it is all protect this and that
Well come time you lot will be moaning as watch and see as happens in peterhead but you don’t give a toss as is as they swoop down and prey on old fowks but hai ho is was your grandparents then u would complain wouldn’t you
Give me a shot gun and I will
Show you what to do
Very late to see this post, but I think it is a madness that we have just one railway in the North East, and has such irregular services despite its importance! Scotrail and the Scottish Government seemingly don’t care about anywhere North of Dundee when it comes to transport. A line to Ellon would be beneficial, as would an extension right up to Fraserburgh, via Peterhead. As a massive transport enthusiast and local I have often looked into the rebuilding of lines in the area, and based on settlement size alone there would be enough passengers to keep lines running not only to Ellon, and up to Fraserburgh, but also on the Deeside line, at the very least to Banchory, certainly as far as Aboyne, and even to Ballater like it used to run is feasible seeing as the whole track section is largely intact thanks to the Deeside Railway, and tourism alone as well as the commute to town thanks to the oil industry would let the railway thrive. Even 4 services a day such as on the Kyle line would work out. Same goes for a line along the Moray and North Aberdeenshire costs between Elgin and Fraserburgh. Plenty of tourism and an abundance of population. There is sufficient demand in the area. The Borders Railway is a massive success, and Aberdeenshire has more population to be served and much more tourism. Anyone suggesting this wouldn’t work is either Tory to the core or completely deluded. At the very worst a tunnel section would have to be made on the Deeside line out of Aberdeen for a certain section, same potentially going for some other routes.
With research I have drawn up I know that all these lines are sufficient. In Aberdeen new stations could and SHOULD be opened at Nigg Bay (especially now the new harbour is being built – yeah, we have money for that yet not new lines, funny that isn’t it?), Cove Bay and Newtonhill on the stretch to Laurencekirk, and potentially new stations opened at Kittybrewster, or Berryden, along the current line. It is sad that Dundee’s suburbs themselves have an abundance of stations, yet already nothing compared to Edinburgh and Glasgow. Just one station for Scotland’s third city and oil capital is nothing. Just one line going through it is nothing.
Deeside Line, if it reopened, would surely stop at these settlements for a bare minimum:
Aberdeen
Peterculter – Population, quick commute into town
Banchory – Population, essential shopping area for those in Upper Deeside
Aboyne – Population, lots of commuters
Ballater – Tourism and decently sized population.
Ellon branch, as discussed, although with extension to Fraserburgh via Peterhead (with, admittedly, a slight deviation to the route proposed, but my ‘research’ suggests is perfectly feasible):
Dyce
Balmedie/Newmachar (depending on route used)
Ellon
Cruden Bay – Tourism, decent population and would serve large area
Peterhead – Large population
St Fergus – Lots of commuters, serves large rural area also
Fraserburgh – Large population
Also to add that even despite the decline in the oil industry there are still, and will still be many commuters still needing to travel in, along with local residents and tourists. Had these lines be reopened 40,30,20, even 10 years ago they would have been doubly profitable. I find it pathetic that we can open stations on rural lines to Kyle and Mallaig that serve hunting lodges for the rich few, but can’t open stations in large population centres to serve many people.
I don’t think the SNP are keeping stations on Kyle and Mallaig lines open for hunting lodges given the policy on land reform.
However the point stands that the lack of rail links in the NE is ridiculous. Especially when the other option (road improvement) will not happen either.
Your proposal for a line going through Cruden Bay, PHD,St Fergus and FR makes perfect sense. The only real alteration might be trying to connect Mintlaw(although how practical it is I am not sure)
What won’t fly is an Ellon P&R train for Broch/Phd etc. It has to include Buchan as well as Formartine.
Congratulations on passing your exams, Suzanne – I do miss your offerings on this site! Good luck with your future endeavours in the journalistic world.
First, to commenter Bill Stephens: You either didn’t see “You’ve Been Trumped” or you approve of his actions. The neighbors’ houses, barns etc., mostly Mike and Molly Forbes’s houses, were shown for all the world to see. The current president of my country, Trump, who was so ready to insult and the homeowners, has not bothered to check the back areas of his own “pristine” luxury golf course, and is uncaring about dumping their own waste products. Either you just woke up and know virtually nothing about what Trump has done to not only the residents but to the last natural ecologically pure coastal area of Scotland or you are of the same bullying mindset of this bIllionaire narcissistic land-grabber.
bitter article by a bitter journalist with a massive chip on her shoulder because the golf course was built and proved to be an excellent facility and a boost to the area.
I have read the Facebook spat unfold day by day. The author has been selective in her description for sure. Her opening spat made a veiled threat to include the restaurant on an app which boycotts Donald Trump’s business over a sign they posted years ago before work on the course commenced and their refusal to conform to her demands. Anyone reading the article can clearly see an attempt to undermine a local business enjoyed by many in the area, which pays taxes, employs local staff and promotes local produce. This is not some faceless corporation being attacked, it is someone’s livelihood and business, and someone who support the lives of many others in the area who has been slandered on the whim of a self proclaimed journalist and activist. I would hope that the local anti-trump action groups take the stance to denounce the actions of this journalist and that the public show their support by spending some money in the restaurant.
Suzanne Kelly says: Here is what I’ve written to The Cock and Bull Balmedie; until they can explain their exaggerations, it’s my last word for now:
Seeing as you opened a direct dialogue with me, I want your public apology. Either that, or evidence for your false claims against me, believed/seen by over 100 people. You are in defamation territory here imo.
1. you wrote: ‘a journalist and anti-Trump activist was looking to include us in a “blacklist” to encourage customers to boycott the Cock and Bull (I never wrote any such thing)’ ‘I was contacted by said journalist and asked to publicly renounce any support for Donald Trump (I asked for your current position; I did not ask you to publicly do anything but answer the yes or no question) I may have (the man, not the course) in order for us to be excluded from the boycott list (I never said anything about your having to make any public statement to be excluded from ‘the boycott list’ – this is a huge slur),’. and ‘Ours was not the only local business named that may be added to the list (where do you get this from?)’ . These statements are gross exaggerations and you have twisted the dialogue out of proportion. What I wrote was this ‘In case you don’t know, there is a major anti-Trump backlash, an international boycott of his businesses and their supporters (and even an app), and I’d be delighted to tell my contacts re. the boycott that the Cock and Bull has not, and does not, side with Trump’s racist, sexist ideas.’ and it does not add up to demanding you do anything, it is not threatening to put you on a blacklist; it is offering to tell the world you have changed your mind on Trump: it could have done you a favour. I do think it is time to up the boycotting of pro-Trump businesses, as I wrote on a Tripping Up Trump thread – which was not addressed to you. 2. Are you a liar? You wrongly said I made ‘inflammatory comments regarding the restaurant elsewhere’ – come up with these inflammatory comments; I’ll be very interested to see how you prove this. I want an apology for what you’ve written or failing that, proof of your claims, especially about the ‘inflammatory comments’.
Back with a bang, Suzanne, I see – you have been sorely missed, as I said in a previous post. I look forward to many more articles authored by your good self.
Just viewed the documentary “You’ve Been Trumped “. I still have a pain in my chest – sorrow, anger -no, rage! I can’t imagine how you, who have lived through the loss must feel. Nothing I can say will put back what was stolen from you. You may have been Trumped, but the land of your soul, for generations, has been raped. This done by a person (Can’t call him a man, for fear of possibly offending those who are, and he doesn’t meet my definition of human.) who seems to have only two motivations: self & money. Trump is a real me-me/more-more kinda guy, isn’t he? Give thanks that he’s not in charge of leading your country. Alas, I can’t.
What I’d like to know is, how much good do you do – for yourself and your neighbors – by continuing to place blame and assign guilt? Are you giving that thoughtless, greedy Trump more power by perpetatting ill feelings and dissention? Will doing so bring back the dunes? Keep well.
Suzanne Kelly says: For anyone who objects to the idea of boycotting local businesses (something I never ‘threatened’ the cock with which you know if you read the article), here are a few words from Trump when Michael Forbes won ‘Top Scot of the year’ in 2012 for standing up to him. Trump said: “I hereby call for a boycott on drinking Glenfiddich products because there is no way a result such as this could have been made by the Scottish people.”
Trump asked people to boycott the Glenfiddich business; to those who attacked me for simply trying to find out where a local business stands which used to support Trump by its own admission – I hope you attacked Trump for actually calling for a boycott back then.
Some people are wrongly under the impression I threatened a restaurant to either disavow trump (it had supported him) or be put on a local business blacklist. This incorrect assumption is a lie, a massive over exaggeration of my asking a trump-supporting restaurant if it still supported him in light of all that has happened. No answer was forthcoming.
But if you have a choice of spending your money at a place that aligns with trump (and you can’t separate the man from his business interests) or one that doesn’t, what are you going to do? Trump asked people to consider boycotting businesses, and those who attacked me for simply trying to find out where a local business stands, I hope you attacked Trump for actually calling for a boycott. Hope this helps some of you. Doubt it will though.
My family have owned the Cock and Bull for 20 years and I have run it for the past 8 years so I thought I would give some background to this article.
Until 8 years ago the restaurant was chef/proprietor run and the banner was erected during that time. The banner did nor reference Trump but was in support of golf and was only in place during the planning stages of the new course but was removed well before any work began (a detail that the author does not think is important, the restaurant then cannot be aligned with the tactics used during the building phase of the development and that does not make as good copy). All of this is irrelevant ten years after the fact but thought I would clarify for anyone who does not know the details.
Through sheer hard work and determination my family have built the business into a reputable establishment that has won best gastropub in Scotland three times and holds an AA rosette for culinary skill and an entry in the much-coveted Michelin guide. We are proud of these achievements but even more proud of the Catering in Excellence award presented by Scottish ambassador Andrew Fairlie in recognition of our commitment to training and educating young people. We have seen hundreds of people come through our restaurant from all walks of life, many have been SVQ trained in cookery, hospitality and management. A large number of our leavers have gone on to have very successful careers in this industry (a few Michelin stars spread among our past chefs – fantastic!) but more importantly they have taken away great life skills that we hope will help them in the future. Our staff are our greatest asset, we are proud of them all and will fight tooth and nail to safeguard their jobs (just for the record Ms Kelly).
It was while we were going about our daily business of creating menus, sourcing suppliers and staff training that Ms Kelly’s fully loaded question arrived on our business page asking if we supported Donald Trump or not. I was genuinely perplexed and would have ignored had I not been alerted by members of the Tripping Up Trump page that Ms Kelly had posted there that she would LOVE to have photographic evidence of the banner erected 10 years ago as it was time to up the boycotting of pro-Trump businesses. Due to this post we refused to answer Ms Kelly’s question and told her that we wanted no part of what she was planning, she then went back on the TUT page to share that we had declined to answer and added a smiley face – a misplaced emoji surely (or glee at having the green light to write this article)?
Since this article was published I have seen my restaurant reduced to being a “Trump-loving greasy spoon” on the TUT page and watched others have their say on matters they know nothing about. While my team were serving 500 customers over the weekend as well as providing food for firefighters across the city who were taking part in a charity car-wash, there were posters bickering over a decade-old banner. While I was in a Prince’s trust meeting on Monday trying to affect positive change by calling for more youngsters to be given opportunities across the industry, there were keyboard warriors spreading negativity and hate towards the restaurant. While I was writing an article for Visit Scotland extolling the virtues of our beautiful country, there were TUT members extolling the need to “hit us where it hurts” by denying us business. While my restaurant was doing grassroots work in the community and trying to actually make a difference through productive enterprise, there were many on the TUT page throwing insults at each other and trying to apportion blame to a country inn in rural Aberdeenshire for the wrongdoings of the American President (the thread has since been removed due to it’s content). It seems ludicrous to me that anyone would want to land so much hate at the door of another but we can at least be thankful that the one real positive since this article was published has been the countless well-wishes we have received via Facebook, email and telephone giving support and sympathy (also inundated by press requests but this sorry debacle requires no further publicity). We have been truly humbled by the reaction of the people of Aberdeenshire who have rallied round us with kind messages.I think the poster C. Coble above has it nailed, why perpetuate blame and guilt when “anger and hate dig holes, love and kindness move mountains” – Zero Dean
Suzanne says: the editors decided to publish Mandy’s comment as it is; it is filled with conjecture, unsupportable conclusions, fabrications. Most of these have been addressed elsewhere. I am glad to know though that it is the same family that came out in support of Trump then that still own it now, and like petulant children will not say if they still support Trump – read into that what you will. Mandy seems to be able to not only read my mind but read the minds of Facebook administrators on the Tripping Up Trump page. Why exactly she puts so much support on the banner – after having confirmed the restaurant supported Trump (see article) is unknown. I’ve previously asked for evidence of things she states as facts – which aren’t’ no evidence is forthcoming (obviously). She actually thinks she and her restaurant matter enough to me to hate them. I don’t hate anyone; even Trump. I do hate racism, sexism, organised crime – all things that Trump is the posterboy for. No one forced the restaurant to come out and declare support for Trump; I had thought given the bad treatment of the Menie residents, the attack on the wind farm which cost Scotland untold sums in legal fees and delayed jobs, the non-existent millions and 6,000 jobs Trump promised never came – that the restaurant would have wanted to tell people that it cannot support Trump. Remember that Trump is a man that RGU and the Global Scots ambassadorship decided did not fit their values and renounced. I’ll not be apologizing for asking whether the cock wanted to join them. But I’d like an apology for the assertions I made any demands tantamount to blackmail, that I made ‘inflammatory’ comments about the cock in the past, etc etc. I’ve written hundreds of pieces, but I’ve never run into anyone before who jumped to such wild conclusions.
You are so right to demand that C&B apologize for publically twisting and misrepresenting what you said, Suzanne. They’re acting just like that racist sexist who ‘dined at this restaurant’. Nothing to be proud of C&B! Suzanne, you are a true inspiration.
*Where can I find this blacklist for Trump-supporting businesses?*
Suzanne says- thank you, glad people have read the article and compared what I wrote to the charges invented against me. I wished the owners would have asked me if they were unsure what I meant rather than jumping to extreme, woefully wrong conclusions and sharing these as if they were facts. I’m neither dumb nor counter-productive enough to engage in demands or threats, let alone do so in writing, let alone on Facebook. There are 2 comments pending- they have not been published yet as they contain more misinformation and opinion presented as fact. As to boycotts; i recommend using google- you will find lots of info there including the app i referred to. What did I think would happen when I asked the cock if it still supported trump? I thought they would be happy to have the chance to distance themselves from a man with proven ties to organised crime and the KKK. After all, who wouldn’t do so?
I met Sarah when she was just out of art school. We had and exhibition of her work here at Syllavethy Gallery. She was feisty and fun. I also met her mom and dad. They seemed pretty good people to me. I am an American who has lived in Scotland since 1975. I can’t stand Trump, and wonder how Sarah can? It seems like a dichotomy…but life is strange. I am sure he gives her a fantastic salary, as the ex Face of Aberdeen, and a very intelligent lass. Although still beautiful, she didn’t do well in her interview on the BBC. Shoving truth under the table doesn’t work, Sarah. Her answer to every question was, “It is an on going project.” Promises of 6000 jobs, when only 150 are employed and some of those part time. Hundreds of houses not built, no second golf course or huge hotel. Possibly money gives sleep at night. But what happened to that feisty and fun girl. I still have one of her art works if anyone is interested. I paid her £400 for it, but will sell it for £40,000 now that she is Trump’s lass. Anyone interested. Sarah? You can afford it now.
Now watching ‘Donald Trump: Scotland’s President’ on BBC and amused at the pretence of wide-eyed innocence of Ms Malone.
Still, at least BBC Scotland is finally looking critically at this project now it is fashionable to Bash Trump. Contrast that with the anodyne and uncritical coverage at the time
Hello
We have 2 children and paid about £400 plus for cloth reusable nappies about 13 years ago. They have been boxed up for the last 8 years. Does anyone want them? We want to donate them to someone who will use them rather than us having to throw them away. Thanks
John Askey
Your pithy take on life in Aberdeen & the powers that be is much missed, Suzanne – this is a cracking article! Please don’t leave it too long until the next one.
Suzanne says- thanks for the kind words. Where I’m reporting from now doesn’t lend itself to satire quite like Aberdeen city and shire. I miss the Deen. Happy Christmas all!
Thanks for tbis Fredsplaining; have often wondered about the influences that created the one-off that is you. Looking fwd to hearing music and reading more.
I’d almost forgotten this beuatiful song – A favourite Burns song of Dick Gaughan’s of course. You sing it so well, Ian, thanks for sharing it! Cheered and calmed my Friday morning. Issy
Suzanne says Dear Jamie, I’m glad you find safety lapses resulting in a broken leg and concussion ‘hilarious’. Do tell though how you recommend protecting sources in such a situation so as to get the details out while protecting their identities. As to the cited source, for the people who understand safety, the point is that the official Dragados rep doesn’t understand how such accidents are normally reported and that companies are normally happy to release their HSE statement. Perhaps you’ll find some other hilarious articles to comment on, for instance there have been some road accidents that might appeal to your sense of humour. Enjoy! PS – since you don’t see the point in protecting sources, perhaps you’ll like to tell us where you work/what company you work for – it’s almost as if you want to defend Dragados 🙂
Well said Suzanne.
One of the guys I know there told me months ago about the substandard rock and the damage to the dredge which neither the AHB or their Spanish contractors have published. Then again all of AHB top guys are in the Masonic lodge so secrecy is a god given.
I would like to get the figures of how many local people are employed on the project ,remembering the 400 jobs spiel before this commenced .
Another excellent article, Suzanne. Lack of information/transparency with our esteemed ‘cooncil’ about many things is just shocking, but I think people here are so used to it they just can’t be bothered protesting or making a fuss.
Suzanne says- thanks Carolyn and Davie. Carolyn there is still a lot of apathy but far less imo than when I moved up in 2003. There are movements, protests and people asking questions. Lots more to do, but progress is being made. If the mainstream news investigated businesses and the council instead of sucking up to them and seeking free rent, things would be better. Davie, I can’t possibly comment on the influence of Masons 😉 but appreciate your comments. I still would like to hear in confidence from any sources on Dragados at Nigg. I was a safety rep, and my fear is that someone is going to be seriously hurt or killed long before this environmentally-destructive white elephant is completed.
I do hope you’re right about less apathy these days, Suzanne – if so, long may it continue. I couldn’t agree more regarding your comment about the mainstream media. It annoys me when they crow about such-&-such a business moving into, for example, the Silver Fin building or Marischal Square, all the whole omitting the fact that so many are not new businesses to the area so the premises vacated for the move are now empty. Also the misleading headlines – for example, “new coffee shop opens wherever”, when it’s yet another branch of a well known American chain as opposed to a business new to the area, or heaven forbid, an independent, local endeavour.
Saw them at Barrowlands in Glasgow in October 2017.
Best songs and performance I’ve experienced in a very, very long time.
This band already has a huge live following and must be experienced while you can.
The feminist Angela Carter element makes them extra interesting.
Playing Transmt in Glasgow Saturday 30 June 2018.
I used to know Sarah and had an exhibition of her art at our gallery. I set up a charity for Aung San Suu Kyi and thought Theresa May might make a good Prime Minister Obviously, I am a lousy judge of women. Sarah used to be a straight talking fighter, Aung San Suu Kyi used to care for her Burmese people. Theresa May…I had no idea that she hated immigrants so much and was capable of U Turning on her ideals so easily. We were told in school that money and power equals corruption. So being a lousy judge of women, I was also a lousy student, or would have guessed what would happen! three very wealthy blind mice. See no evil (or just don’t look), hear no evil (or stick fingers in your ears), and speak the purest bullshit!
HI I am Interested in some oil. I have Myloma and haven’t achieved remission. Its an aggressive form thats hard to treat as i have two other mutations. Im 45 tomorrow and would like to do anything to remain around for my little girl. As it stands im looking at 18 to 24 months so am ready to crack on with anything!! Many thanks Sharon
Hello- cbd oil frustratingly is still expensive and hard to get on prescription. You can buy cbd oil online and Holland and Barratt sell it too. Hope this helps.
ANOTHER NAH scam busted! As Lance Corporal Jones so quite rightly put it – “They don’t like it up ’em!”. Carry on the good work but it would be nice to counterbalance the article with one about the legal and aboveboard sanctuaries in and around the city and shire that are doing sterling work without being given any sort of recognition….
Suzanne says – thank you – and I agree with you and hope either that an AV reader will write something up on the great rescues and shelters in the area, or I’ll try to do a piece soon. I was actually working on a piece about a rescue and a shelter, but in the interests of the animals being rescued getting rescued quickly without putting a spotlight on their owner, the piece was dropped.
Hi there,
We would have been thrilled to receive more submissions in Doric, unfortunately we only received one and the selection committee did not feel it was of a sufficient quality for the collection. We did, however, feature several poets from the North East of Scotland, several of whom attended our Aberdeen launch of the book alongside their supporters. Katie and I travelled up to Aberdeen from Glasgow where we were based at the time at our own personal expense, and had a wonderful time at the launch there.
Thank you for your review and for engaging with Aiblins!
This is load of bullsheet. Get a grip! I have joined DUK in the last 3 months and the level of H&S you would expect on a construction site was one of the best in my years of experience.
Suzanne says: I don’t know what you expect, but a 100% accident free situation is what most shoot for. Your 3 months excluded the serious leg injury in December, and many have a different view to yours.
Even as a kid in the mid 1950,s Aberdeen,the back door of 44 Union Grove where we stayed was partly broken by a world war 2 German bomb.
I,ve long left Aberdeen in 1957 and often wonder if the gate is still there today with the relic scar of that distant war and 75 years gone by since the last German raid on Aberdeen in 1943.
Another amazing story by Ms Kelly. Where are all those pictures and videos you talk about? Is there ever any evidence of all the things you say in your articles, other than imaginary whistleblowers?
I think you are actually quite dangerous for journalism.
Suzanne says: thanks for your comment. There is plenty of evidence seen by us, and Dragados knows it to be true. But at present we take more care in protecting our sources imo than seemingly Dragados takes protecting workers. Do tell us what specifically you doubt. Dragados has not been in touch to dispute a single word.
Excellent report! – Since the beginning, I have been concerned that this is yet another project where the people of Aberdeen are being sold a very smelly pup, whose benefits and effects will be very different to those claimed for it.
Suzanne says: Thank you for the comment. The fact two people were recently injured while working on the caissons for the Harbour project should be cause for Dragados to immediately step up their safety. I remain fearful for peoples’ and wildlife’s safety and with good reason.
The birds will benefit with the wild flowers (weeds) dockens, sow thistle etc. they can reach the seeds in the snow. Hopefully some trees will take, if they had planted blackthorn, rowan they would have a better chance.
Suzanne says: thanks Bert; meadowland remains the fastest-disappearing type of habitat in the UK – and what also disappeared fast was Cllr Cooney’s proposal to leave Tullos as meadowland: Peter Leonard either lost or undemocratically stopped this. We know the trees if they reach a certain height will be subject to wind toss (the hill is a rubbish tip with very bad soil matrix) – the roots can’t get a proper purchase. No deer, less meadow, less wildlife. And finally, Leonard promised this was cost-neutral: while the council were being pursued for £43,800 for the failure of an earlier phase of this unnecessary, destructive vanity project.
My father and uncle were young bots from Hull in England living in Aberdeen and vividly remember the plane going down. It was so low that my father can remember seeing the pilot and co pilot in the cockpit as the plane hit the top of a group of poplar trees and then knocked the chimney off their house before it crashed. A neighbour was amongst those killed.
I am a former client of ACC taken into care at birth did not have a childhood Aberdeen City Council has a very bad history going back to the old days of the County Council and Regional Council. Since they wrongfully judged my late mother may I say! they appear to be above the law all the time and could not careless who they abuse. For sure they never cared for me and many other children in its care, however many have asked what care did we ever receive.! Survivors of abuse will not forgive. Nor will I.
Was a fan until they took the outside investment – seemed to go against all the things they initially said they stood for. Seem to remember a story about unfair dismissal or some such & lack of a proper HR function, plus the owner who appeared on a recruitment reality cum documentary programme some time ago did not come across well at all. I always thought it would be a good place to work if your face fitted, otherwise not so much.
All this notwithstanding, lovely to see another piece from you, Suzanne, although I do love it when you cover the more contentious local stories!
Hi Carolyn – nice to hear from you. It’s a growing company; it’s fixing what it gets wrong, and it’s doing a good deal right socially and brewing-wise. Compare and contrast with some Aberdeen businesses (or the council, getting ready to cut services again to the most vulnerable), or other brewers (they are far from giants just yet compared to the big boys, one of which tried to literally steal an award from BrewDog years back). I also like the fact that whether I’ve arrived in my zep t-shirt or a pinstripe suit, no one looks at you funny. But if you want contentious stories – I’ve now got something in the works that I think you’ll like – hope so. Cheerio.
Many thanks for the response, Suzanne. Oh don’t even get me started re our esteemed ‘cooncil’ – when I contacted them to say that the salary paid to the ‘Evening & Night Time Economy Manager’ could have been put to better use elsewhere, & actually said that I knew they’d come back to me with the fact that the salary was from a different budget to, for example, elderly, disabled or community services, that’s exactly what they did say!
It’s not so much contentious issues that I like, it’s your take on them, especially one particular subject whose main character I won’t name as I have a specific holiday destination organised for a trip shortly!! I look forward to your forthcoming article.
hello
My name is Ricardo Thomson and I am chilean
My grand father was Thomas Thomson Duncan and my grandmother Joan Hoban Winchester
Both arrive tu Punta Arenas city in the south of Chile direct from Liverpool
May father Adam Richar Thomson Hoban and there brothers Thomas Thomson Hoban and Jack Leslie Thomson Hoban was sended to Aberdeen to go to the school around 1920 t0 1926
I am looking to see if they go to the Victory School there stay with there grandmother and she lives in Menzies 27 at Torry área
if you can help with more information i will thankfull
Best rgds RT
good luck with your search; if you want me – Suzanne Kelly, one of the contributors to help, I can share this on some Torry, Aberdeen social media groups. Just let me know.
In this Trumped-up World it has always amused and unsettled me that Damien Bates has the names of two infamous horror film characters, namely Damien from The Omen and Bates, as in Norman Bates, from Psycho.
It’s all very creepy but this horror story is our reality.
You continue to deliver, Suzanne. I will follow this article, & any responses or comments from those mentioned, with interest, though I won’t hold my breath for anyone actually rushing to contact you! I have noticed recently that Ms Malone has reverted to using only her own surname when being interviewed or quoted. As for the forthcoming book by Mr Bates, you couldn’t make it up (though I’m sure he will)!
I work at Aberdeen City Council Work Experience Unit where we place secondary school pupils into 1 week placements or extended placements which is usually a couple of afternoons / days a week over a period of time. We are looking for some new employers to come on board so that we can ease the pressure of asking the same employers time after time. We require placements in all different areas as follows:
Accounts
Administration
Beauty
Care Assistants
Childcare
Dentist and Dental Nurses
Electricians
Engineering (mechanical, electrical, design)
Graphic Design
Hairdressers
IT
Retail
Sport
Veterinary or working with animals.
It would be great if you could possibly post this on your site so that any employers that are interested in taking part in the programme can get in touch.
Health and Safety requirements are not a barrier to hosting work placements. Aberdeen City Council trained staff will complete a young persons risk assessment. The only piece of paperwork that the employer has to have is a copy of Employer’s Liability Insurance.
Suzanne Kelly says: George Sorial quit his post with Donald Trump a few days ago. Aberdeen Voice emailed both Sorial (prior to his leaving) and Trump International Golf Links Scotland; no replies have been received.
I was told yesterday that this was a top artical and I should give it a read. It has lived up to high expectations. Well crafted artical by a Mr Dave Watt, he should be proud of his handy work. Anyone know what colour of car he drives?
My family netted salmon for 5 generations all round Scotland. Yes we overfished, but more factors also damaged stocks – pollution from fish farms including sea lice, overfishing of the sea bed for sand eels, habitat and climate change, and exploding populations of seals. You can argue with any of these, I am not a biologist.But the stock reduction has happened.
Yes we shot seals, at close range from the boats, those seals who were hanging about the nets and most liable to be guilty of damaging the salmon. That happened, and there was no fuss. It was control, not extermination.There is more worry in the N of Scotland about intensive control of raptors and mountain hares, and the disappointing lack of control of numbers of deer.
I happen to like seals, probably more than any other animal, because of their intelligent inquisitive nature, and willingness to give up their own time to almost talk to you, and I have sat out on rocks doing just that. But that doet stop me wishing that their stocks be controlled. I am sorry to tell you that most of you eat animals who have been killed by man. Personally I think that we should eat sealmeat. I have eaten whale, no problem at the time, but judge me if you want. We can spend from now until the end of time judging each other.
As a professional railway engineer, I am in complete agreement with the proposal to re -open the railway to Ellon : with few caveats: 1 A proper funding package with a robust business case. must be put in place to ensure that the plan is economically credible. 2 the new line must be built to suit the travel requirements of not only today but of the prospective travel needs of the latter part of the 21st century and early part of the 22nd Century. Long term planning is required if a project such as this is to be a success, we should also be looking to create a high voltage A.C. electrified railway network, (25K.V.olt,) in the North- East of Scotland as this will help to create sustainable economic growth in the region and help with the diversification of the regions’ economy in the long term. 3 We should not get hung up on saying we re-open certain lines we need to look at current transport network look at what the major issues are going to be in the future and plan any expansion and improvements to the network accordingly; long term transport planning is required in this region to sort out the current mess and we must include the distribution of traffic in the City of Aberdeen, with all options being on the table because if we improve the transport network outside the city, then these improvements will have a knock on effect on the city’s traffic. There is potential for rail expansion in the region but it must be planned on a proper business like basis.
Stewart Prise Fyvie Aberdeenshire
At the same time I fell ill in London, was rushed to hospital and in an isolation ward for several weeks.
Everyone from the govt. to health authorities and FBI types were trying to find the cause. I had ParaTyphoid and the only treatment was one pill a day. One other woman had the same illness – we were from different parts of London and the investigators could find absolutely no connection between us as to where we had eaten.
Finally it was determined that I had eaten a corned beef sandwich in a deli near Claridges Hotel.
The beef had been rejected by U.K. health authorities, sent back to Argentina where it was re-packaged and got through the second time.
I hope L.A. wakes up and realizes how serious a disease this is.
Suzanne says – it’s appalling – an approved medicine, one that could be affordably produced, is being withheld. at SCOAP we are getting scores of letters from people who have used cannabis and cbd medicines, who are benefitting from them – but for whom the NHS refuses to write prescriptions. SCOAP will continue to lobby.
Congrats Suzanne – now I am safely back on this side of the pond after a visit to old friends (!), I look forward to ordering the book & settling down with a glass or two of red for a good read!
Apologies for bothering you, but as I “don’t”do Facebook” I have no other way of contacting you – looked at ordering your book in paperback from Amazon, but delivery time quoted was a couple of months! Would you be so kind as to update me on the situation please?
Hi Carolyn – sorry for the late reply. I was astonished when I saw that; my publisher says he’s seen this before with Amazon, and he’s working on it. It really should be a matter of days for the paperback to arrive, but I’ll happily send you one of the copies I have. If you send me your address to sgvk27@aol.com, we’ll work it out. PS – there will be a few videos of me reading some chapters coming soon; hope you’ll like.
GUESS THIS COULD BE TITLED “WE TOO (at least I, for one) HAVE BEEN TRUMPED BIG TIME by a cruel land grabber/plunderer who has managed to dupe 38% of the US population into electing him President. If not for gerrymandering, i.e., districting and the unnecessary electoral college, well….For one thing, the planet has been given less than 12 years to slow climate change. Under this gargoyle he ousted the EPA and Endangered Species Act, opened the Arctic for oil drilling, and speculated buying Greenland. Thank Odin, the latter isn’t for sale. If a golf course or casino was built on that ice, and drilled for oil, the Atlantic and North Sea would rise in 5, not 12 years. Surely the president of Denmark seen what our President hath wrought on Aberdeen’s dunes. She knows he bowed out of the Paris Climate Accord and committed enough violations to fill a volume or two. But you already know this.
Only recently have I discovered the Aberdeen Voice having looked around the Net, looking for updates for 2018 and 2019 on the status of the Forbes’ (especially Molly), the Munros, and the Milnes’ situations and found nothing. Somehow I found the Aberdeen Voice. “The Trouble with Trump” 1 and 2 were such a relief to be able to comment here. Everyone who knows me, listening to my impotent anger at Trump and his abuse of power, shares my feelings. I warned people not to vote for him (pleading “look what he did to an environmentally sensitive area of a country not hjs own–don’t turn him loose on the USA!”) after watching Anthony Baxter’s film in 2014. A lot of people heeded my plea, some just to shut me up.
At this juncture, 2019, this is my first chance to voice deep concerns on many levels. I am from New York, Arizona, and Southern California, respectively. I was visiting Savannah, Georgia when the film You’ve Been Trumped woke me up on Free Speech TV. Then buying the DVD, I was appalled by his inhuman x, his elephant tail- brandishing pipsqueak son; be was plundering another country, denigrating and eventually punishing property owners who dared say no to him. Anyone with a TV already knows how despised Trump is by a majority of us over here. As a senior aged 82 next month, living 3 miles from the California and Mexican border, in a 98% Mexican-American neighborhood, many Latino families and other friends share my feelings. It was a great honor and a real treat, they said, that those property owners fly Mexican flags over Aberdeenshire skies!
My question is, then: Why, if Alex Salmond finally got wise after he and his put-upon constituents have been thoroughly bilked by the Tangerine Tyrant, hasn’t he still got up off his parliamentary arse and seen to it that the violations of the rights of his constituents were HIS top priority? Has he fined the departments in Scotland that have not complied? What kind of power does the MSP have? Trump’s power can’t be absolute. Why hasn’t Mr. Salmond finally “manned up” and visited the people’s needs, sincerely apologized and listened to them, inspecting properties, taken copious notes, and got things done, i.e. was at the ready for them? He isn’t timid about voicing his opinion in public or in his office. Now he has the dubious honor of being on Trump’s insult list, maybe even has a nickname. He should never have allowed this invasion to occur and he knows it. He is a fellow Scot, Donald isn’t–he’s an invader from another country.
If the earthen cliffs with loose soil that kicks up on a windy day and gorse still prevent the Munros from getting any sun, aren’t they legally considered an impediment to the owners’ health, tranquility, comfort, and sunlight? All this should be corrected a.s.a.p. How high up can an MSP go? Or are there greedier people who out-rank him? From the photo of the Milne cottage and Munro station, attractive white buildings, scenic, classically built, neatly maintained, they need never have been deliberately concealed from view. The berm and the gorse are inside the Munro property—-NOT Trump’s, aren’t they? So their property line is intruded upon–a gross violation of property ordinances, right? And, the Munros should not be harassed by absentee Trump’s local armed bully police preventing the Munro egress-ingress to their own property. The hired goons routinely trespass and intimidate and follow Susan whenever she walks her dog to the beach There should be a higher authority to protect the property owners. Money is one thing, but aren’t there laws? Trump has wilfully set property lines to intrude on private property, i.e, David Milne’s. It’s his country, not Trump’s. He violated your land.
Salmond should not just be miffed because Trump gave HIM “10 cents on the dollar”. But he should go all out to restore rights and reparation, be a pubic servant for a change. He is not helpless, is he? The government’s responsibilities are ignored. It shouldn’t cost the victims a cent. Trump owes them. He admitted the Forbes pipe was an accident. HE acts wronged, not Forbes. If he doesn’t fix the problem, then Aberdeenshire legislators should step in. Salmond (or whoever may have replaced him by now) should stand up for his constituents. He serves them, not vice versa. If there’s anything I got wrong, please straighten me out.
As for Mike and Sheila Forbes and their fearless mom, Molly, admired and loved by people worldwide—and by the way, my role model—were their water, plumbing and electricity finally properly restored by now? Has anyone responded? It’s 10 years.
While watching the crowds of supporters to whom the Forbeses opened their wholesome barn to talented artist David (who got Trump down pat) and other loving friends and supporters. Their old farm is exactly like thousands of working farms of all sizes in our country.
Those who live in glass high rises shouldn’t throw stones. Donald Trump is used to tacky, baroque gilded, ostentatious surroundings. The photos of Trump’s debris-strewn junk, plastic and boards are shameful. As an absentee owner, his garbage is collecting, yet he trashes Mike Forbes’ tractor, machinery—and maybe of the nice white pony with a full mane of his own natural hair. Hypocrisy comes to mind.
I for one am now a fan of the Aberdeen Voice and would like to subscribe.
Dear Ms Stewart, Suzanne Kelly here, and I just wanted to thank you for your kind words. I am a bit late in seeing this comment, as I only write occasionally for aberdeen Voice these days, so apologies for the delay in posting it. Your thoughtful comments come just as Damian Bates, former Aberdeen Journals Ltd editor, has been chosen to address an annual Aberdeen business dinner to talk about his pro-Trump book. For a dozen or so reasons, I find this disappointing. Thank you for reading AV; I’m going to put out an ‘Old Susannah’ column for the first time in a while, perhaps you might enjoy it. All the best
Your article fails to highlight just at how monumentally incompetent the AHB staff (sorry meant thugs) currently onsite actually are which has greatly contributed to all the problems that they are currently facing onsite. Keith Young should be castrated for putting these morons onsite.
How can we be sure that the museum collections have been the subject of a formal inventory and that items have not disappeared . In addition the recent decanting of the art collection to a ‘safe place’ during the ongoing works at the Gallery must have considerably increased the risk of fire , theft or damage .
Did the council take out a ‘special’ policy to reflect this , I wonder ?
Please council, vote no. In line to what David mentioned, the long-term maintenance on the roads, sewers, drainage, and surrounding infrastructure is a reason alone to not approve this plan. It would be irresponsible for you to vote yes on something of this size, as it does not support the living conditions of the adjacent surroundings. In addition, the Aberdeenshire council should be looking at projects in a controlled and directed manner so as to be compatible with preserving the rural-residential character of the town. It is your role to recognize the importance of quality natural resources, environmental resources, especially water resources and the continued health of the community. Listen to your community on their desire for positive growth and changes that actually supply growth and enrichment.
Trump can bull dose his way into anything with his lies that can seem so believable. Please no more houses. I live in the USA and see first hand what Trump can do to destroy the land.
With President Donald J. Trump (and now Prime Minister Alexander de Pfeffel Johnson) we are witnessing how the world really operates, via the money power establishment. Their purpose is to maintain and increase the power of their dynasties, at the expense of the people whilst using the psychological techniques well proven in advertising to get the very people who will pay to vote for them.
This is extremely cynical and cannot end well.
The concept used to push through just about any enterprise is “growth.” This is a fallacious and dangerous concept which sounds good but is an ill because they mean exponential growth. The reasons for this are based in the private debt-based money creation system imposed on us which demands more stuff is produced and thrown away every year to make the debt; e.g. National Debt, seem smaller as a proportion of GDP when in fact the debt is increasing because that is how our money is now created.
To get to grips with this basic problem read The Bank of England Quarterly Bulletin Q1 2014 website Topical Article “Money Creation in the Modern World: an Introduction.”
Exponential growth (of anything) is impossible in a finite system such as a planet.
The only things that can successfully grow exponentially are cancers and infections.
The area can not sustain this development. It is also a back door to a further bid to put more houses near Balmedie. Notwithstanding all that, I would urge the council not to put itself further into Donald Trump’s pocket; the more you give him the more he will take.
Hello Joshua, always happy to argue minor semantics and points in the face of devastating environmental disaster such as the vote has created. The impeachment road is a long one with Nancy Pelosi announcing a formal impeachment inquiry – the first step, and there are indeed half a dozen committees looking at different aspects of impeachment/impeahcable offences. Impeachment process has started. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B8UMTLL3OU However, if any readers want to view something really unbalanced, here’s a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYb2KTHKk2Y in which Trump says ‘what the Democrats are doing “… should be stopped, MAYBE legally” – is he asking for illegal help – he does have mob friends as is proven. He goes on to compare Adam Schiff to Pontius Pilot – and therefore painting himself as Christ (which some of his less balanced, armed evangelicals may take to be a rallying cry – they’ve been told Trump is god’s ‘chosen one'”. Do I agree that I’ve misled readers? No – it’s started. Do I know my facts? Yes – do you? What do you make of the state of the impeachment process then, and of the whistleblower situation – and myriad other improprieties. As to impeachment – Tally ho!
Lovely to see Mr Milne giving his thoughts, just a shame that the powers that be appear to have taken no notice whatsoever. I had the pleasure of meeting him at an industry event my then employer had organised just after Anthony Baxter’s documentary was shown, & I made a point of talking to him.
Welcome back, Suzanne – how I’ve missed your witty, observant take on things! Totally agree with you on the child exploitation thing, but am reluctant to comment agreeing with you on so much more as I still want to be able to visit friends on the other side of the pond regularly! I did comment on the lovely David Milne’s recent article, though – I’m a fan! The Shire councillors, who are supposed to represent their constituents’ wishes, should be ashamed of themselves – no notice whatsoever taken of the few thousand letters of objection to the latest iteration of plans for Menie. It would appear quite a few of them registered initial objections, then folded like the proverbial house of cards when push came to shove. Let’s just hope karma comes into play at the next local elections, that’s if people can even be bothered to vote, & it would be understandable though regrettable if they didn’t, given that what us plebs think appears to be of no consequence at all. I look forward to your aforementioned 10 further columns!
You are quite right about my ‘s’ ‘z’ issues. It got worse since I started doing some writing for an American gun law reform group. Then again, there are some English words where the z is acceptable if not preferable. All too much for me before I’ve had my cofvefee.
I’d just like to add to my piece a couple of notes – one, to remember Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Trump refused to listen to the audio which proves his barbaric murder by the Saudis was both horrific and premeditated. Instead, Trump has hired out US troops to the Saudis. But Damian sticks with his story that Trump’s a good friend, and Bates is a misunderstood, honest working newsman. Secondly, someone created a video of Trump’s head superimposed on a person beating up second person, which had the CNN logo instead of a head. In the vvideo Trump punches CNN repeatedly: trump personally shared this video on his official US Presidential twitter account. No other American president ever has shown such contempt for journalism, nor done so in such a childish yet violence-promoting manner. Northsound and Bates – have a great dinner.
A few years on 2019, and oil is still thriving in Scotland, new fields new contracts etc. are still being discovered and formed; oil is not running out soon but technology and culture is shifting: eg. Mariner, Hurricane, West Shetland. There are still scores if not 100-200 oil rigs at least in production in the North Sea today. Many foreign owners and contracts as well as overseas workers are employed; but the Scottish government has limited powers since it is Westminster that controls spends. Only if Scotland becomes independent will full economic and cultural control be possible. Athough it is not widely advertised, some oil industry companies also support and gives back to the local communities and education through different schemes. It’s not all bad news. Renewable energy in Aberdeenshire 2017-20 has now reshaped the horizon all along the local coastline. The Scottish gov. under SNP aim for a shift away from oil towards greener systems. So if oil is dead or dying it is because contemporary culture, politics and society wants it that way for the sake of a greener future. But there is still money to be made in the depths; will it be buried or what would happen if Scotland became independent now?
Have passed this several times over the years and wondered what it was. Definitely not a Martello tower; too many openings, though not overly dissimilar. The ‘dig’ at Pick Of The Unscrupulous Scum/POTUS 45 is entirely acceptable, mandatory even. Thank you for this historical idiosyncrasy.
It’s been about 6 weeks so maybe you’ve heard, but Randy Cannon has left this atmosphere. He has been living in my building for the past 10 years and I saw him regularly in the elevator. He had embarked on a significant weight-loss program and looked pretty good for a while. But then he gained a lot of his weight back and was looking like a real ‘puss-bag’ (up to you), I never interfere.
He was about 15 years younger than me. I also have just put away both my parents, and now for the first time in my life I am feeling the finite-ness of life.
I heard from an old man years ago that the spies paid £1 either for or to hire ! The old fella had a fair sparkle in his eyes when he explained that £1 was a fortune in Crivvy at the time. PS it wasn’t Sandy !
I can’t understand why we must import these dogs , there a thousands of dogs in need of a good home in the uk , so is it just people think they are cute and cuddly ? Believe me they are not !! some are so damaged and prettified the kindest thing to do is put them down ,, charity begins at home get a dog here not from over there
The local news later on yesterday reported that he had officially notified the Standards Commission that he was going to appeal his conviction. Why does the old saying “Denial is not just a river in Egypt” spring so readily to mind?
SSPCA are not fit for this purpose , they need shaken up and made more transparent . They are corrupt …
Until they can sort themselves out , the snake is the tip of the iceberg .
Jackie is correct. If you only knew the truth about the SSPCA, they are the one’s that should be investigated. Go and inspect their base and the poor conditions they keep animals in. Talk about calling the kettle black.
Honestly, how the Nigg Bay Expansion ever got the go-ahead is beyond me…then I remember the sort of city council we have lived under and it makes sense. Corruption and incompetence.
A “solution” nobody asked for. Throwing tons of money, damaging the environment,poorly sited, to bring tourists to Aberdeen when there is nothing in Aberdeen for tourists. And by bringing them through the sorry-to-say backside of Aberdeen, past train tracks, sewage works and industrial estates and into Torry, a place that has long since forgotten prosperity and smells of fish or other industrial smells, and hardly the lowest crime rate in the city.
It’d be far cheaper for Aberdeen to take sensible steps to improve it’s own tourist appeal so it can catch some of the traffic to Deeside.
Typical ACC, always obsessed with grand expensive stupid business-friendly schemes, that line the pockets of councillors and especially the contractors, but often somehow leave Aberdeen, its people themselves poorer and the city scarred for the effort.
Hi Susanne
Enjoy your columns but I’m afraid you are victim of fake news. I am sure that there are many wacky banners and posters scribbled in support of conspiracy theories but I’m afraid Obama 19 is not one of them. See: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/barack-hussein-obama-covid-sign/
I am sure you would be the last one to justify the circulation, however inadvertent, of fake news so I hope just to show that we all play by the same rules, you will make a correction in your next column.
Cheers
Ian
Hello Ian, Thank you – I am happy to set the record straight now and amend my piece. Thank you for sharing this. Fake news is something everyone is susceptible to even me. Many people get caught (hands up – I did here and have done in the past) – but many more people choose to never question the authority of something in print. Cheers.
Hi Suzanne
Thanks for that. I’ve been caught out too and had to retract a post I recently sent to a few friends on WhatsApp once I realised I had sent them what turned out t be false. This despite my confidence in being able to spot something dodgy from 100 yards!
Writing this not as a comment so please don’t publish. Is Fred still dealing with editorial suggestions? I am not getting any responses from suggestions I am making though the contact form, in particular re developments at Aberdeen South Harbour. Is there any reason he is not responding?
You can contact me directly at ian_baird@fastmail.fm
Ian
Ian, sorry so late in replying! As far as I know the comments form still works, but I don’t have access. If you email me at sgvk27@aol.com I will happily look at editorial suggestions share with Fred. All the best
Scottish writer Isabella Fyvie Mayo (1843-1914), who lived in Aberdeen, had views on the subject of memorials and statues:
‘‘Of late years, since the multiplication of “monuments” and “memorials” has become the fashion, Scotland has erected many to the honour of Royalties and of Scotsmen who have taken prominent part in spreading English dominancy over the world, whether by force of arms or statecraft. But she has not much remembered those sons of hers who have wrought for all human kind or for herself.” [The Young Man, 1901]
Mrs Fyvie Mayo instanced the abolitionist Rev. James Ramsay (1733-1789), an Aberdeen graduate whose writings had inspired Wilberforce but who, she believed, had no memorial. And she supported the idea of honouring Aberdonian William Alexander, author of Johnny Gibb of Gushetneuk, complaining that “his sole memorial had been thrust into a graveyard of sordid associations.” She may not have known that Nelson actively defended slavery but she commented that he “was on the side of the tyrants against the peoples” and that “after his death a great deal of Russian Imperial money went into the foolish column on which he now stands (as an honest Jack-tar remarked) mast-headed.” [being sent up to the mast-head was a punishment] And she referenced the involvement of Scots in imperialism in her objection to a memorial to John Wilson of Fochabers according to the press report of a talk she gave in 1894:
“in Tasmania the native had vanished before the barbarity of the white race, and in Matebeleland there had been another object lesson supplied. A monument was to be erected at Fochabers in memory of Major Wilson’s party; it was to be hoped the inscription would record that these men suffered through the treachery of two scoundrels of their own race.” [‘Aberdeen Journal’]
Not surprisingly, the resulting memorial fountain, commissioned by the Duke of Richmond and Gordon did not include any such comment in its inscription.
This was a stupid idea. We have them in Seaton beside Mrs. Murray’s and the multistorey’s. They have only just started to grow now after years. I’ll tell you out of four multistorey’s (Bayview, Northsea, Aulton and Beachview Courts.) Only 30 residents from Aulton Court had agreed to this initiative. Residents in the other buildings DID NOT WANT THIS. And now the area looks worse than ever.
Suzanne Kelly here – what an absolute fiasco – expensive failure, and the taxpayer picks up the tab again. The story may be old, but the anger is still very much with us – glad you commented.
Three plus years on and I have just come across this article in relation to searching for something else.
Wowee I thought, strange no edit telling us the undoubted sum it fetched. What a story. Surprised I missed this. Then I read the comments to see if someone had posted the info.
I worked for them and dean keans reply was very much a new employee rant at 23.41 clearly had a few shandy’s trying to make himself look good to his new employers. The place was a complete shambles. I witnessed very serious racism against foreign workers, a couple of managers who hadn’t a clue, but swiped everyone who was a threat to them including accidents being brushed away. I heard daily a manger going to meetings and coming back calling the higher management for everything under the sun then when the arrived on site he was there best pal. Confidentiality well non existent. Management bullying worker tried it with me 1 week well put in there place tried to say this and that and with my experience absolutely rattled him for six. He never knew my back ground he thought I was a agency worker tried his best then found out I was very well known in my profession including with the hse. He knew he wasn’t a match and I rose from that. Middle management were a problem on that site ie site agents who knew nothing a guy who spent years on a submarine trying to take charge it was laughable and it’s little wonder the gate closed. The middle management always tried to under mime the Spanish management and then walked about the site all day to the dead wood as I called them calling them for everything then in turn the dead wood would carry this on making the top boys look stupid again. The problem was the middle management DIDNT know what they were doing then passing orders onto guys who were clueless to the operations vehicle Marshall’s getting made to be experienced ground worker whilst all the good guy and there was many got shown the door because they showed the middle management up as they had the knowledge. I could name a few so dean were are you now as you weren’t there when I was there so you three months was well noted a bet you regret now putting your name to this post. The middle management talked a good job and with the language barrier the higher management didn’t know any better. I sussed it the first few days I was there. I had my ear to the ground I knew before taking the job who the fly by nights were and who was milking dragados and it wasn’t all Spanish guys as they would let you know to make them self look very important king rats. What we left with now in Aberdeen the harbour board 350mil out of pocket all blamed on the covid-19 that’s bullshit the place sunk well before that when it was announced the north break water had to be dug back up yes people dig back up. Again traffic Marshall’s doing the ground works and all the wrong materials being used. Why did the middle management not stop this eh eh because they were cluesless.
Cool! My Mom, Margaret Abercrombie, descends from this guy. Glad I found the article. Is there a manor house still standing at Glassaugh? Do I need to come visit!? – Lorie
I think that you need to reconsider the school going back until the outbreak has settled! Numbers are rising and the safety of the children and teachers has to be paramount! Blended learning to see the numbers of if there will be a further rise by putting schools back or home school until it’s safe! My children are your guinea pigs.
Suzanne here, I’ve been sent this anonymous comment; anyone from the Shire, which has not responded yet on risk assessments care to comment?: “…Academy in Peterhead, whole sections of the school would be unfit for use as lacking ventilation – windows jammed shut for years – awaiting demolition & replacement in coming 5 years, how could it possibly pass a risk assessment, and any remedial work couldn’t be completed within a few hours of opening”
Suzanne with an update: 1. Aberdeen City Council is debating with me on twitter, pointing to its FAQ document which says the Risk Assessments are done – they are not. But this just in from Unison – they are happy for this to be shared: “UNISON believes that support staff across Aberdeenshire are very concerned about the reopening of schools.
Ann Gray Branch, Assistant Branch Secretary, said “We have had Pupil Support Assistants.,School Administrators, technicians , Cleaners and Caretakers raising concerns on a weekly basis .They are receiving inadequate information from their individual schools. They are all clear pupils education and wellbeing is foremost in their thoughts however staff must be assured that schools will be safe for their return and sadly at this time staff do not have this reassurance.”
Karen Davidson, UNISON Organiser, said “We have been meeting online weekly throughout the holidays with our members to seek answers to their concerns. Over 50 members have undertaken UNISON Health and Safety training to try and be prepared for assisting with risk assessments for the safe reopening of schools .””
When the Scottish Government announced full opening of the schools (without even face coverings in secondary schools) they said that one of the conditions was “infection rates must be at a level that is sufficiently low to provide assurance that we can continue to control the virus” (https://www.gov.scot/publications/re-opening-schools/). Clearly, this is right now the case in many parts of Scotland, but not in Aberdeen. Germany has set a level of 50 infections per week out of 100,000 people as triggering a lockdown. In Aberdeen, the figure is currently 64 in 100,000 – it is high by any standards. I don’t see how anything other than blended learning can be safe until and unless the infection rate has been brought down.
Very well done to them both and I know there is so many people so proud of Ryan and I haven’t heard much about Lucan’s so good luck to them both I know a few of the future choice group
and I have knowing them a very long time David and
d the team do a great job and I heard about Ryan after is big brother Lewis also did a lot of good things as well and all these’s young teenagers show’s there is also a lot of them great youu man so from a very good friend of future choices keep your hard work going so proud of these young men.
Suzanne Kelly here – first thank you Fred for your help and editing. Secondly, thank to the Stop the Desecration of Marischal College Facebook page who has done in-depth research, everyone who has done FOI requests on the matter, and sources who are still coming forward with new information. Part II will be out in the near future. I am still keen to hear from people in complete confidence who have knowledge of the situation, especially information that has not yet been published.
It would interesting to know if William Young has Power of Attorney over his parents affairs . In any case as a son or indeed as with any offspring the legal affairs of the family are often discussed informally before any action was taken and as a lawyer his parents must have at one point , “Hey Willie , what do you think of this”? There is enough material in this to form the basis of a public Inquiry . The bottom line is ….if my front wall fell into the street , National Cycle Route or not , I alone would have to pay for it .
A very enlightening piece as I have long collected his books which are more difficult to find these days. My very first one I acquired as a present when a child in the1940s, was How to Draw Ships. Thanks for such an informative article. He was a great man.
I am a visitor to my family who live on the Kingseat site in a new build but adjacent to an apartment conversion of one of the original buildings. I am an 85 year old retired doctor and am enjoying the multiple opportunities for long walks around the estate which has many refreshing designs of new build houses..
HOWEVER I am appalled by the state that the remaining undeveloped original buildings are in.
So many of them have great character and would make attractive new homes it sadly many are being left to deteriorate and will ultimately be beyond economic restoration and redevelopment.
One wonders if this is the forward plan of the owner of the site.
I have researched that ownership and have copied these comments to him.
N
Look, I’m not fan of the Evening Express, but this feels like a bizarre criticism. It seems the author of this piece penned it because he was so appalled the EE refused to cover the story (“Did no journalist at the Evening Express feel any impulse to pen an article which would eviscerate the tweet, but not the man? …. The failure to capture and draw attention to this is a hallmark of how toothless, ineffectual and utterly insipid the standard of journalism has become in this country”).
Given Craig’s clear passion for accurate, fair and balanced journalism, wouldn’t it be fair to tell your readers that the Evening Express DID in fact cover the story of Willie’s tweet. Repeatedly – on October 21, October 22, October 27 and October 29.
This article would be totally fair if Craig represented the facts accurately. Instead, this just comes across as they type of woeful local journalism that he rails against.
Come on chaps! You’re all about ethical, fair journalism – how come you won’t publish my response? I’m not saying you shouldn’t publish the article above, but at least add my comment for balance or to inform your readers.
If you’re not going to, can you at least give me an explanation of why it doesn’t meet the moderator’s standards?
Hi Dale, Amazingly, we were on holiday and there is no staff waiting around to approve your posts. They’re approved now, hope that please you. – Suzanne PS – I personally think Craig has a definite point to make about coverage, not least as the EE’s ‘hard-hitting’ columnist Gilfeather sees nothing wrong in Young’s behaviour, calling it a crime against comedy. Glad to have the view of a white male like him on this. I’d ask how any of the EE’s non-white columnists feel about it, but I don’t exactly see very many on the roster. Calling into question the integrity of an AJL paper on issue of racism seems fair; after all, sister paper the P&J decided to lavish praise on KKK-endorsed Trump for years, even giving him a column.
Many thanks for your considered input on my article. Iam pleased to see that it has been read, absorbed and considered worthy of comment by yourself.
To address your point, I would add that I had contacted the EE, expressing my concerns over not only the racist nature of the tweet, but also to highlight that, as per my article, Mr Young had been a perpetual nuisance on social media with posts designed to antagonise, belittle and at times disseminate false information on a spectrum of issues, local and national.
The fact that a position was held by this man, a then Labour Party member, which has led to the commission of several prominent “questionable” projects Aberdeen, is of relevance, and more to the point, his tweet was yet another example where Mr Young’s judgment could be legitimately questioned.
Indeed, had Mr Young apologised sincerely for his tweet, there would have been little to discuss.
However, this did not happen and he doubled down on his position, positing that it was those who took exception to the rhetoric in the tweet who were in the wrong.
This man has and arguably still has influence in Aberdeen and I sought to seek assurance that the EE, as part of a free and healthy media, would cover the issue, highlighting not only the racial nature of the tweet, but also bringing to a wider light this former councillors appalling, very public, behaviour on social media. His tweet marking a particularly low point.
With all this in mind, the EE responded, prior to the penning of my article, essentially stating that they did not feel it was worthy of coverage and directed myself toward the another body should I wish to complain.
The EE could have reverted to inform me that they were looking into the issue, or that they were aware of the tweet, but no. They had no real interest.
As Suzanne rightly comments, they ran a “puff piece” by Frank Gilfeather which essentially swept the matter under the carpet, thereby excusing Young of any real scrutiny or critisism.
Further, as she also highlights, this newspaper has not been above acting as a mouthpiece for a businessman who has been vocal in his support of far right rhetoric and on a global stage, mobilised and “dog whistled” far right militia.
In light of the EE reluctance to commit to covering the topic, running a meaningless puff pieces by an adult who should know better, failing utterly to condem the racial nature of the tweet and heaping praise on a KKK sympathiser, I wonder, is my critisism of the EE still “bizzare” in your view?
I would argue that perhaps you have missed the point of my article, where i indicate that by failing utterly to fully and definitively condem racism, we open the door to its acceptance in our society?
I would have thought that this was a point far more worthy of engagement, rather than criticising the article for questioning the competency of our media in failing to condem racism?
Or perhaps you felt that Frank Gilfeather was an appropriate conduit for this newspaper to fully report, analyse and articulatley condem a racist tweet by a former City Councillor and then Labour Party member?
Indeed, having fully explained the basis for the article above, hopefully clearing up any issues you may have had, I would welcome your comments on Young’s tweet, and extend you the opportunity to also critique it?
Ps – screenshots of the poor response from the EE were sent to AV editorial prior to publication of my article, so the veracity of them has been determined. In addition, due to the nature of the EE being a daily paper and the AV being weekly/bi weekly, articles submitted prior to any EE responses may appear several days after the article was written. Regardless, the EE shirked their responsibilities.
I’ve looked for the article that Frank Gilfeather and I think it’s a bit disingenuous to describe it as a “puff piece” – it’s just him expressing his opinion. I don’t know what he’s “puffing” (racism?) or how its publication was a way for the EE to “sweep it under the carpet” (as I’ve pointed out, they also ran a series of articles about the issue – including criticism it was racist and the subsequent apology from Willie).
I think we just have a fundamental difference in what we believe newspapers should be allowed to print. I firmly believe Frank and the EE should be allowed to print opinions that are controversial – even if personally don’t believe in that view.
Since when have newspaper columnists been used to “fully report, analyse and articulate” issues? That’s not their job, and it never has been (I’m speaking about opinion columnists, specifically). I don’t see how you could read Frank’s slightly snarky opinion piece and say he was speaking on behalf of the EE in general or that it was the EE’s attempt to “fully report, analyse and articulate” the issue. That seems to be a deliberate misreading of the article.
To be clear: I don’t agree with what Frank said and I do think the original tweets could be considered offensive. But if Frank wants to disagree with that, I don’t see a problem with them printing it. And I don’t see their publishing his opinion an endorsement of that opinion. (ie if a columnist praises Nicola Sturgeon and other criticises her, how does either view ‘speak’ for the EE?)
If the EE had expressed the same sentiment in their leader column, I would 100% agree with you. But they didn’t, and I don’t think their lack of a direct address to readers about Willie’s tweet amounts to them condoning racism. After all, I don’t expect them to write a piece to their readers to stress that the EE is against violence when they do a story about violence.
To be clear (again): if you got that response from the EE and they did not report anything of the Willie tweets, I’d agree your article was warranted. I just think your criticism is a tad unfair given the thrust of your argument – the EE refused to report this story and therefore they are condoning racism in their silence – is untrue.
But I appreciate you getting back to me. I think we probably agree about more than we disagree with. And maybe both of us are guilty of focusing our angst on the small things rather than the bigger, more damaging, picture.
Suzanne says: thanks for this perspective. It seems for the EE the matter wasn’t important enough to report on seriously – a queen’s civic rep making a racist remark. However, the EE thought it was fine for an opinion piece ignoring the racism, accusing others of losing their sense of humour. Glad to have the old, white male perspective on racism; very helpful. We’ll agree to disagree; if the EE had room for the opinion piece ridiculing those who found the comment racist, it might have found room for some reportage, even if that might have meant cutting down on the latest pretty baby contest or whatever.
I have been contributing to Aberdeen Voice – both in words and in cash for a few years and am grateful for both the platform and the editorial support. But this ranting eight-page piece makes me uneasy. What has it come to when the Aberdeen Voice headlines on “Crazy how white Republicans got other white Republicans scared of Muslims and Mexicans when all along they needed to be scared of other white Republicans…”?
The Aberdeen Voice digital archive is full of verifiable and well written pieces well worth preserving. Bob Smith’s Doric poems, Neil Cooney on the Spanish Civil War, Suzanne Kelly on Sustrans and much much more. But at the end of the day this current piece titled “Thoughts For A Post Trump America Reboot” does little to enhance our reputation as an alternative press for the folk of Aberdeen or indeed anywhere else in the digital world.
Aye.
Suzanne says Well Duncan, I remind you (again) that AV takes submissions that are fact-based, of interest to people in Scotland, and which can be legally published. No one’s forcing you to read any piece you don’t want to; but no one gets to say what belongs in AV if it meets the criteria. Since Trump has destroyed two SSSIs and impacted negatively on many lives from residents at Menie through councillors through to the chef fired because of an obscene-shaped biscuit (yes, really), and since for four years the man held influence over the world and used his position to spread bigotry, I am happy to say that many people enjoyed reading the piece and your attempt to try to pontificate about what does and doesn’t belong in AV when you know the criteria are tiresome. I’m delighted when we’ve printed pro Trump pieces; I sometimes wonder at op ed pieces I’ve disagreed with, press releases from professional PR firms – but I know that it’s not for me to suggest something that fits the publication criteria should not be published. Aye yourself.
Mr Harley, I totally disagree.
You stated what you think but why do you think it?
Not related to Aberdeen? Nonsense.
These facts need to be in documents of record everywhere as a warning to all people from Aberdeenshire to to every corner of the World.
Well done Suzanne Kelly.
Thank you Gordon; appreciated. I was disappointed to see a colleague take what could and should have been an internal discussion to the public by his comment. He must know by now that ACC published things of interest to people in Scotland, things that are true/valid fact-based beliefs, and that are lawful to print. We have no person deciding what goes in or not as long as it meets the criteria. Goodness knows I don’t like everything we publish – but it’s not my place to say we shouldn’t publish valid stories. That’s what sets us apart. An editor once said AV is an empty jar – it’s up to the contributors to fill it. We just make sure it’s legal. x
Good to hear your fire as you hold a moral compass in one hand and a mirror up to America with the other.
I couldn’t get Delacroix’s Liberty Leading the People (1830) famous for its allegorical and political significance – now a universal symbol of liberty and democracy out of my mind.
Aberdeenshire Council has asked for 3 months bank statements each for 2019 and 2020, so 6 months in total! This is supposed to prove that taxi income has dropped by at least 50%, which is their eligibility criteria. Don’t know if this is central government criteria or if local authorities are responsible for their own criteria. I have serious concerns about handing over 6 months of bank statements but felt we had no option, definitely an invasion of privacy and over the top.
Hi Suzanne here; your bank statements are none of their business. I will ask them about their policy and whether they will let you redact transactions or not like Glasgow do. All they need is your id, proof you’re eligible, and proof of sort code, account number etc.
Thanks for drawing attention to this Suzanne, it is truly shocking. May I correct one point though, the estate most certainly does not have planning permission for clay shooting.
You’ve got to laugh. Here’s the council being so “careful” when giving out money in the form of a grant supplied by central government yet if your garden wall falls down the council will dole out £250,000! 😂
This is disgraceful on a number of levels, but what was to be expected from dealing with Donald Trump? His pattern of narcissistic behaviour is well known.
“He moved to Britain to avoid the Vietnam War draft,[4][5] and in 1967, he was married in London.[6] He was described as “the first American to refuse his draft call publicly in Great Britain”, and was pictured presenting his US Army induction papers to Canon John Collins in what he described as “a symbolic gesture in seeking the sanctuary of the Church”.[7]“
Wikipedia.
A shining light that may well have been snuffed out had he not acted.
He gave us a lot. A great human being.
Thank you for being Marc Ellington.
We were bombed in Hilton 1943 and moved to Union Grove.
I became a member of the Queens Cross Boys Club.
I was employed at
The Aberdeen Combworks
Middletons, Rose Street
The Council are uninsured for the art collections George as are all the other Councils who use Zurich. Audit Scotland corrupted their investigation in the same manner as PWC and the person responsible has recently been voted the new Auditor General of Scotland. Farsical. The new whistlee blowing Bill currently in Westminster makes concealment a criminal offence. The PWC Glasgow corruptor (Mark Reid) was finally caught for forgery via another whistle blower and his professional body (CIPFA) was not pleased. Oh dear, he is going to get whacked again.
The highest value uninsured painting in Aberdeen Art gallery is a Francis Bacon valued at £70,000,000
I am pushing for the Scottish Parliament to investigate Audit Scotland’s corrupted activity in the relation to this whistle blowing case. I’am glad to be back through here in Inverness. I’m retired now also.
Aberdeen Voices were the only news media to give a damn and post something although it is completely outdated now.
Dear Michael and Molly Forbes,
My name is Kanapathipillai Wignarajah and I admire the Scottish and Welsh friends. I am glad that you stood up to that “ar… ” called Trump. He is the biggest liar that roamed this earth. I studied in Liverpool in the early 70’s and then went onto work in Wales under a great man called Professor Gareth Wynn-Jones, a true Welsh patriot. I hope I could come and meet you personally in Scotland. I now live in USA.
Thank you so much.
About 10 years ago, I asked if they could look for a Victorian corset made of leather that I found in the eaves of the attic of my family home thirty five years earlier.. Even though there had been a wee mention of the donation in the local paper at the time, there was no record of it 8j the archives and so it could not be found 😢
Suzanne here – hi Clare – your comment is very interesting – and possibly very important too. I’ve searched the inventory – there are several corsets listed; however not a one is listed as missing. None are described as leather; none of them are that old. I’ll message you on Facebook – something’s gone very wrong with your donation. And if it happened to you, it’s likely happened to others.
Suzanne says – sorry for the delay in replying! The pits were in such a state of decay it was not possible to tell much – aside from several deer legs. Anything could be in there. I was alerted because of many missing cats; anything that’s a curious animal, particularly a carnivore, could be attracted; but anything could have been killed – like the deer – and thrown into the pit. Definitely invesetigating further when am next around. Thank you for a good quesetion.
Suzanne here; hello Carolyn; just wanted you to know that my 10th annual Christmas satire is out now; A Night at the Museum. Hopefully you’ll enjoy. All the best and thank you for your support over time. Appreciated.
I was unaware of your FOI requests but having been on the receiving end of an UAP on 29th July I made a request today for information on their use. I have been gagged by ACC for slowly unpicking and revealing the truth about their maladministration of Kingswells. May I ask your interest in UAPs?
We lived directly across from Causewayend Church which received a direct hit, our tenement, 26 Powis Place, suffered severe bomb damage and the exterior stone staircase was blown away. We slept in the basement of the Split o’ Wind Church for 3 nights until we were re-located to the home of two sisters that lived in Watson St. We lived there for 6 months until our flat was repaired .
I recently tried CBD gummies in requital for the victory heyday and I must cbd capsules remark, I’m impressed with the results. I felt more nonchalant and at ease, and my dread was significantly reduced. The gummies tasted cardinal and were mild to consume. I’ll indubitably be using them again and would recommend them to anyone looking appropriate for a logical habit to alleviate accent and anxiety.
It appears that the Aberdeen Compton has been ‘lost’. Historic Scotland listed the building and its contents shortly before permission was granted for its conversion. It was conditional of the planning permission that the organ be donated to ‘The Aberdeen Theatre Organ Trust’, of which Charlie was one of the Trustees. In the five years preceding the ‘gifting’ of the organ to the Trust the Trust was allowed collapse due to retirement and death of Trustees. No attempt appears to have been made to replace the missing Trustee’s, despite interest being shown from several potential replacements. According to OSCR the trust simply ceased submitting accounts in 2018 without explanation. I have it on good authority that in August 2021, during lockdown, Knight Property evicted the organ from its storage premesis, and the sole remaining Trustee, Charlie Davidson, decided ‘Unilaterally’to ‘give’ the organ to a collegue in Germany. The organ has since been removed from the UK.
After reading an article ‘Don’t wait until Aberdeen’s heritage is under threat to fight for it’ by Rebecca Buchan in the P&J, I contacted her with the potential story of the missing organ. Despite an initial interview in which she seemed very excited to look in to it she sat on it for nearly a year then never published it. I find it highly ironic that she then goes on to write articles bemoaning the lack of musical interest in Aberdeen, when she could have played a part in providing the same.
At the time I belived there was a strong case that the remaining Trustee had acted illegally, not least because the whole planning permission for the conversion of the Capitol was granted on the basis that the organ remained in Aberdeen for preservation. Also, the organ was ‘gifted’ to the Trust. Under Scottish law title to an object doesn’t change unless some form of consideration is passed, a ‘peppercorn’ gesture, yet the documents in Aberdeen councils planning department say the organ was gifted free of charge. There was also probably an implied contract between the owner and the Trust which is now broken by the Trust’s failiure to meet its side of the contract. At the time it was shipped I belived there was a very good chance the organ could have been recovered, but thanks in part to the total inaction fo Aberdeen’s P&J that opportunity has probably now been lost.
And if you dont think it could have been done, in the late 1960’s a local Arbroath man, Ian Fraser, bought a steam loco from BR and gifted it to the then Dundee Corporation for it to be included in a proposed transport museum. When, after 20 years Dundee council failed to build the museum Mr. Fraser was able to show that the contract had been broken and ownership of the loco was reverted back to him. The loco, Ivatt class 2, No. 46464, is now nearing completion of its return to steam by the Carmyllie Pilot Company Ltd.
So sad to hear of the ‘loss’ of the Capitol Compton. Also, it is many years since I heard the Henry Willis Organ in the Music Hall played. Anyone know what condition it is in?
My mother jean Coulter was on fire station when it was bombed,I know nothing about the date ,damage etc she was never the same again,any information about this would be appreciated
Geoff
I very much remember my late father Richard Forbes telling me that on the day of this raid , he was an apprentice marine engineer at Hall Russell, Shipyard. He was just cycling out the front gate at the exact time of the attack. He recalled that the card school were actually having a break in a boiler room playing card when the first bomb exploded, killing them all.. He was blown off his bike and thrown across the entrance. Thankfully he only sustained minor injuries but the memories of that day stayed with him to the end.
My late father in law George Melvin was a sergeant in the RAF and was for a while stationed in RAF Orkney before being transferred back to RAF Dyce, Aberdeenshire. He was allocated the task of transporting the remains of three German airmen on a plane transporter to be interred at Dyce church cemetery where a small service was given. He recalled the problems he hd driving the winding narrow roads from Raf Dyce to the church yard. We went there several years back and even they being enemies he became very emotional. As far as I recall there are three graves but now only two are occupied, the third was reinterred.
the referendum showed support for the design – no councillor in their right mind want to commit to the £92m loan, regardless of the result!
The “referendum” only ever took place because a previous opinion poll (hopelessly biased as it was in favour of SIW’s “project”) didn’t deliver the right result. The result (52% against, 47% in favour with 1% undecided) was written off as being the result of a “vocal minority” campaigning against it. You can be quite sure that would not have been the verdict had it been the other way round. Still, not to be put off by democratic expression or any such niceties, the Council/SIW/the P&J try again (and this time make sure they get the result they want). The whole thing is a monumental waste of public money and it is a scandal that such an iconic piece of Aberdeen’s heritage could be filled in with concrete merely for some oil tycoon’s personal vanity project – because that’s what it is! If the sunken gardens are such a noose around the city’s neck, I suggest he goes down to Princes Street in Edinburgh and see if they corroborate his view!
Didn’t labour get less first choice votes than the snp? Hardly a glowing recommendation for keeping the gardens? I’m pro cgp but probably more pro regeneration of the city centre I read a post from a pro union terrace garden supporter who proposed keeping the gardens but covering the road/railway line and adding cafes,shops,art galleries, whatever. I think he could be onto a winner there and I think most pro cgp supporters would agree. The frustrating thing is how long it takes to do anything up here!! I.e bypass!!!!!!
You are absolutely correct when you say that Ian Wood and his associates will not lie down over this. It did strike me that the numbers of active voters in the recent council elections threw up one enormous question mark over the number of participants in the garden referendum.
For anyone with an iota of taste and sensibility to Aberdeen’s heritage the crass proposal to concrete over the sunken gardens is seen as sheer vandalism.
We can look at those who support the Wood plan and the councillors who suck up to him and decide for ourselves their motives. Sense and good taste doesn’t come into it.
The situation the SNP in Aberdeen has found itself in since the election is almost certainly a direct result of their unqualified support for this appalling project. The way they have behaved, their unwavering conformity to speak with one voice is nothing short of Stalinist and must send out warnings to prospective voters for future elections and referenda.
(evil masterplan)If they start demolishing UTG, I`m having those gates! I`ll stash them in Findon, they wont be seen for another 100 years, should be worth a bob or two by then.(/evil masterplan)
We all know this will go roughly 2x overbudget tho` ay?
Congratulations on your 100th edition. I look forward to reading Old Susannah’s column every week!
Great stuff: hilarious but sadly based on fact :o)) x
Nearly choked on my cornflakes this morning – laughing! Wonderful stuff. I do hope SIW, ACSEF and our councillors read this.
You’re completely missing the point Peter. Aberdeen is a tired old fishing village and a project on this scale is essential to future oil revenues. Donald Duck has very graciously offered to front the first £5M of this ambitious scheme. To turn down that sort of offer would be akin to sending a message that Aberdeen is closed to cronyism. It’s clear from Councillor McChild’s explanation that the council will operate tight cost controls to come in under the projected £500m price tag. It’s people like you Peter with you leftist defeatist NIMBY attitude that hard holding this city back. Bring in the bulldozers and reduce it to rubble, the sooner the better!
Cackle away Dorothy because you’ll be laughing out the other side of your face when they bulldoze your precious Victorian dump of a city.
WOW, love the dynamics of this hiconic concept, with a bit of personal attention to detail and a flight of fantasy vision from the right design company you could be off to a flyer. If you want any promotional work done come fly with me, I’m right up for a slice of pie in the sky. xxx
I gotta say I sure do like the look of that ugly tower with F-(seagull)- UCK YOU! on it – I’ve been doing the same thing with the words like “TRUMP” on towers for years and the folks back home love that kinda thing. As an expert in tourism I can tell you for fact that you aren’t making the most of your assets here – Billy Connolly lives nearby and you guys ought to be making the most of that. I reckon you ought to put “AWAY AND F**K YOURSELF” in huge letters like the HOLLYWOOD sign up along the skyline to the south of the city and light them up at night to put Aberdeen on the international tourist map.
Yay – the trolls are back. The P and J blog site is alive and well in AV!
Jock, Victoriana is this years ‘cool’
@Steve, if Victoriana was cool then Queen Victoria would still be running the country. Now go back to you quaint little Cafe and baracade the doors because the bulldozers are coming. The future is light airy spaces of modular drywall construction.
Excellent!
I love reading Aberdeen Voice, it’s good to get some accurate news for the area and the writing is of high quality. Many happy returns and long may you continue.
I loved the article – I had tears streaming down my face – I recently watched the televised debate with Sir Ian Wood and other worthies about the development in the City Centre re Union Terrace/Gardens. – so I have an inkling of the real life scenario being satirised. I loved it!
Can ‘Old Susannah’, the self-professed oracle of knowledge and wisdom, enlighten us as to the following:
i) what, for each school built under the 3Rs project, the rental cost back to the Council is?
ii) what the difference between “PPI-type deals” and Public Private Partnerships is? Or whether she perhaps just didn’t bother researching the topic well enough to refer to the financing initiative by the correct name.
iii) if she disagrees with the way that £120million of improvements to the learning environment in Aberdeen were made, how she would finance it? Or would she have just let the school estate rot?
This article obfuscates and agitates. Planting a seed in the vulnerable minds that read this rag and undoubtedly it is there from which the loopy conspiracy theories stem.
What was the point of knocking down a perfectly sound school building in Cults and replacing it with a new one which is no better? We’re going to go on paying for this pointless replacement for decades, and that will be decades beyond the need for schools of this type which are completely unsuited to the revolution which is about to overtake education (and which will eliminate most of the need for schools).
How very nice to get the chance to discuss Suzanne Kelly’s contributions. I love her special blend of sarcasm and satire and as an ex-pat living in Sweden much enjoy reading the paper every Friday – I’m only surprised she hasn’t been done in by the council as yet!! If people only looked behind what she is saying some action might be taken on Menie, Union Terrace Gardens (God Almighty how can Aberdeen possibly afford 140 odd million and the thought of a city grid locked for two years is horrifying) not to mention all the other points she brings up about that project. Then there’s Tullos hill and Loirston – not enough people are fully engaged or care enough and will waken up too late. Long may this lady flourish and prosper!!
Another good opportunity for a laugh. Thank you Suzanne!
Every issue Mike Shepherd writes page after page of nonsense regarding the city gardens, what he fails to grasp is that the people of Aberdeen have spoken, we were asked in a referendum whether we wanted the new city gardens, the vote came back with a clear majority yes vote. The very vocal minority failed.
To even suggest the city ignore a democratic vote is lunacy and borders on Nazism, he put up a good fight but lost, can you imagine the outcry if this was happening the other way around.
George, the people of Aberdeen have not spoken. A more accurate statement from yourself would have been “the slim majority of the people of Aberdeen who voted in the City Garden Project referendum have approved the spending £140 million on a park after being bombarded with propaganda biased towards the City Garden Project during a period of several months”. In addition, I would also request that you stop spreading inaccurate propaganda about the legality and power of the referendum; the referendum was not binding and it never will be. May I suggest that you do some further reading on the subjects of politics, the legal system, and referendums—perhaps then you will be able to understand that there is no such thing as a referendum, binding or not, that establishes an absolute yes or no with such a fine majority as was the case with the City Garden Project.
Regards from Mars, Doctor.
If the referendum was so biased and not worth bothering about as it didn’t matter at the end of the day then why did the people against it (Mike Shepherd and his team) attend the voting result?
Smacks of sour grapes, also disappointing that the anti city gardens people are questioning the intelligence of the majority to decide the matter for themselves, no one was brainwashed by propaganda, we simply want the dead garden brought to street level.
Please respect the referendum result, every adult in Aberdeen was asked the question and we gave our answer, that’s proper democracy in action. If the result had went the other way would you still be crying foul play.
Regards,
George Smith, Bucksburn
“…..and borders on Nazism….”
Well, George has just undermined his comment even more with that nonsense. Godwin’s Law?
Perhaps Fascism would have been more apt than Nazism, I apologise.
If you want to make a comparison with an undemocratic regime, George, perhaps Putin’s Russia would be a better one to choose. Putin uses his control over the media to ensure that the people are informed as to “what the people want”, and what the actual public then think the people want influences them into voting for “what the people want” (which actually means what Putin wants them to want) – this is a known psychological method of influencing people through misinformation. He also ensures that they only hear the news that suits his purposes and that the rest is blocked such that the people aren’t properly informed as to the facts. Exactly the same propaganda techniques were used here in Aberdeen throughout the referendum campaign, and long before it, exploiting the virtual monopoly of the local press in the knowledge that no one from the other side could get a word in without it being edited to water it down and have a reply by a pro-CGP guy tacked onto the end of it of equal or greater length. A Chomsky-style analysis of the EE and P&J over the last few years needs to be done to determine the actual degree of bias, but it will certainly be in excess of 90%. I am working on building artificial intelligence software capable of automating this task of analysis not only to make it practical, but also to ensure that no bias can creep into the analysis itself – once that has been done, everyone will know the score for certain, and this will happen before work on the CGP can begin. I don’t think it will be long before we get rid of the local propaganda rags which have for the last decade been driving Aberdeen in the wrong direction – they are the mouthpiece of developers who only care about making money for themselves.
Here’s what Plato had to say on democracy; “The laws of democracy remain a dead letter, its freedom is anarchy, its equality the equality of unequals”
Is Mike Shepherd Aberdeen’s Plato?
David,
The local press gave equal press to both sides of the debate (I went out of my way to check as I foresaw these accusations would come) , me thinks you’re employing your own “propaganda techniques”, the only platform that was biased (infact 100% biased) was the Aberdeen Voice.
Good luck with that software.
You clearly aren’t capable of weighing up the evidence impartially if you think equal press was given to both sides – a simple exercise with highlighter pens will show the 90%+ bias very quickly. In the last week or so of the campaign you’ll see a significant shift in the direction of equal quantity of comment for both sides, but there is still massive tinkering going on, for example with all the most powerful parts of Jim Milne’s statement being edited out. Now, I can’t guarantee that I can analyse things perfectly either without some bias of my own creeping in, and however small that bias might be, it opens the door to people on your side accusing me of being hugely biassed, so no analysis done by me or anyone else will ever count for anything – he who shouts loudest will always win, and that means he who controls the press. That is why a completely impartial means of analysis is essential to resolve this issue, and all other contentious issues likewise – it needs high-level A.I., and that’s why rather than going on arguing about it here I’m going to get on with my A.I. work. Thanks for wishing me good luck with it, but it’s well beyond the stage where any luck is required.
David,
You don’t believe the Aberdeen public are intelligent enough to decide what’s propaganda and what way they should have voted?
I asked my elderly parents how they voted and the answer was for the new city gardens, the reasons given were they could never access it as it is (1 is wheelchair bound the other not capable of many stairs) , the other reasons were they’ve never been down there anyway and the place is always empty, not swayed by propaganda, they like most people don’t even get the local paper, just a honest opinion as to their reasons.
Sorry George, I have no idea what you’re on about. Please see the following page to refresh your memory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism. Umm nope, that’s not what we have here. Oh well then, back to the comment writing!
George, again I must reply to you. David is absolutely correct in that this is simply a game, and unfortunately the banker controlling the game has significant political, press and financial influence. And I can tell you from my own research and from witnessing the full press coverage, from radio to paper, that the ‘pro’ and ‘anti’ advertising budgets certainly were not equal (if you believe this then it would seem that you have been taken in by the same biased propaganda that you say doesn’t exist).
Doctor.
I’ll repeat this sentence for the benefit of “Doctor who” (why anyone would wish to remain anonymous on this site is beyond me).
You don’t believe the Aberdeen public are intelligent enough to decide what’s propaganda and what way they should have voted?
Are you another Plato?
Fascists ignore democracy, simple really Doctor Who, I don’t need to read your link to understand that.
If propaganda had no effect, the massive advertising campaign by the CGP side would not have taken place and the press would have been neutral. Propaganda demonstrably works, and the people of Aberdeen are not uniquely superior to the rest of humanity such that they can’t be influenced. Even if people don’t read the papers directly, the ideas pushed through them still get into the population and are spread around to everyone regardless, apart from a few people who are socially isolated. Opinions can be spread through a population through the art of propaganda while the spread of other opinions can be prevented by not giving them any room. The more often and the louder an opinion is shouted by a newspaper, the more widely it will be held as a result. There is no need to be right or to win the argument, but merely to be able to shout your case louder than the other side. Most of the people who voted had a negligible or highly warped understanding of what they were voting for as a direct result of the propaganda campaign, and that destroyed the attempt to measure public opinion on the issue. If you were to run another referendum on the issue with a propaganda campaign of the same scale in favour of the other side instead, the CGP would have been lucky to scrape 30% of the vote, at best.
Who’s right? You or me? Is propaganda a failed idea which doesn’t work? Is all money spent on adverts wasted? Is a good salesman no better than a bad one? When you look at the business cass for it, the CGP is actually a scheme to build a loss-making facility in the middle of town to compete against other loss-making facilities and thereby amplify all the losses. If the papers had spent a year pumping that message out, the whole idea of the CGP would have died lang syne.
Anonymous? Why George darling, that is my name. A name is simply an identifier that a person wishes to be known as, and not a good one at that. If this website wishes to have accurate and verifiable identification for comment posters then perhaps it would have in place a requirement that all posters submit their DNA in some form. In fact, you have proven quite well why some posters remain anonymous in debates such as this one, and that’s because people such as yourself enjoy personal attacks rather than attacks upon the points of debate raised. Accusing the writer of being a Nazi isn’t very sensible now, is it?
You are simply embarrassing yourself now George. This has nothing to do with the intelligence of anybody involved; it is a fact, yes fact, that humans are influenced quite easily by the world around them. I presume that you have not studied enough psychology to understand this, so I will let this pass. My point? During the campaign, there were false claims which were so sensational that there is no doubt in my mind that they did influence the referendum result (just not enough to ensure a valid majority though, LOL!). The evidence is available if you know where to look, and the economic report is quite frankly hilarious. Whether you like it or not, humans (fancy versions of monkeys, basically) are influenced by the media.
That is all. Doctor.
No one accused anyone of being a Nazi, talk about a drama queen!
I simply pointed out that democracy worked and that the people of Aberdeen are more than capable of deciding whether the dank hole in the ground is past its sell by date.
Embrace change, the people want it.
Same goes for the Bypass, the Trump golf course, Airport extension and City redevelopment, the majority want it all, the vocal minority can shout all they want it won’t stop progress.
I have a feeling this platform and the majority of its readers would have objected to industrial estates and oil exploration if it/they had been around in the 70’s.
“Most of the people who voted had a negligible or highly warped understanding of what they were voting for as a direct result of the propaganda campaign”
How do you know this as fact?
I believe that is a bizarre statement that implies you think you and the no voters are somewhat superior to those who voted for it!
I think I’ll stick on the side of a multi millionaire businessman who has built a business from scratch and provided employment for thousands of people (and the majority of voters in the referendum) over some anon person on a website.
As George has previously used the terms Nazism (subsequently withdrawn) and fascism when referring to the campaign against the CGP, his credibility on this forum is dropping even further, post by post.
I concur with Gary. Fairness is hard to define, but it is clear that the referendum was not fair, both legally and morally, due to the efforts of several individuals and organisations with significant and non-questioned public influence. Referendums are supposed to be run in an equal way, with all information provided being non-bias (or as much as possible subject to independent review), but this simply has not happened. Once again I must reiterate that at no point has the intelligence of voters been questioned; please consider even the basics of human psychology and behaviour before you make such a foolish statement. The fact is that humans are easily influenced in ways you wouldn’t even notice, and in this case people were influenced by false statements and promises provided by trusted public servants and media outlets. ‘Subconscious.’
Doctor.
I must apologise. The above post was intended to be a reply to George and Gary.
Doctor.
George, there is no disputing that downright lies and flawed projections were presented as facts in the pro CGP propoganda. There is also no disputing that many, many people believed those. I know because I was on the street campaigning, and spoke to people who had voted fro CGP, and prominent among their reasons were those ‘facts’ eg, the jobs, the diseased elms, the costing by PwC who have been fined millions for flawed auditing for other projects.
Lets consider this.
If a jury convicted a suspect of a crime based on the evidence they were presented with, it would not make them stupid, and the suspect would rightly be convicted. If however the evidence was later found to be flawed, or any witness was found to be unreliable, then that suspect would have the conviction overturned. That is Justice, and justice has a value which is greater than democracy.
Whatever value you place on the outcome of the referendum, the process was unfair, and the ‘evidence’ which swung the voters was seriously flawed. To progress with the CGP would be a victory for those, who had they acted as they did in a court of law, would find themselves in a whole lot of trouble.
“I believe that is a bizarre statement that implies you think you and the no voters are somewhat superior to those who voted for it!”
Knowing more about an issue doesn’t make a person superior, but it can lead to their judgement of that issue being superior, so long as that knowledge doesn’t come from one side. Most of the people who voted got most of their information from one side – the press bias ensured that.
“I think I’ll stick on the side of a multi millionaire businessman who has built a business from scratch and provided employment for thousands of people (and the majority of voters in the referendum) over some anon person on a website.”
You’ll stick with a man who wants to saddle Aberdeen with a debt and a permanently loss-making facility which replaces a run-down park with a new concrete-themed park? The business case for it is an absolute pile of pants, so fortunately it hasn’t a hope of qualifying for TIF funding.
Thanks for your allusion to Plato, George. There are indeed many interesting parallels between the current situation and the Athenian democracy which Plato railed against.
As I understand it, Plato objected to the vote of a well-educated citizen carrying equal weight to that of one who knew little or nothing about the matter being voted on.
One of the main problems faced by the Athenian democracy in Plato’s time was the ease with which the citizens were swayed by demagogues – skilled public speakers who on occasion employed the art of rhetoric, rumour and propaganda to persuade the masses to vote against their own best interests.
The Athenian democracy made some horrible decisions. This is one of the reasons why we now have representative rather than direct democracy – our representatives are afforded a salary so they can devote their time to becoming well informed on matters of public interest.
I’m sorry to hear that your parents voted to destroy the Gardens without ever having visited them. I hope they will take the opportunity to do so before they are gone. From William Wallace’s statue, cross the road towards His Majesty’s Theatre – there’s a pedestrian crossing, it’s perfectly safe. Turn left and go past St Marks and the library. At the end of the library building, turn right down Skene Street. Take the first right, along the back of the theatre. In front of you is a very short tunnel or arch which will take you under Union Street and into the Gardens without having to negotiate any steps. It is a very tranquil place which I’m sure your parents will enjoy. My own parents are very fond of it, and are disappointed that their grandson’s favourite park is to be erased – but not being Athenian citizens they sadly have no say in the matter.
* under Rosemount Viaduct I should say above, not under Union Street 🙂
Let’s see: We had Sir Ian saying he would “walk away” if the public voted against his project. They voted against and he didn’t. so off we go again with all kinds of dubious propoganda and promises – remember the “pine forest”? No horticulturists on board at Acef & co it seems or they would have realised, pretty smartly, there’s not a hope in hell of pines growing in UTG. Then we come to the millions of pounds and thousands of jobs to appear magically because of Teletubbyland. Yes, propoganda appears to work folks, either that, or a serious proportion of our citizenry is gullible in the extreme. I’m sure we’d all be delighted if the road and railway in the Denburn was covered and grassed. That wouldn’t cost £140m (or £240m or £340m) but the movers and shakers appear not to like that idea. I wonder why? There has to be an ulterior motive for wasting such large amounts of money and I do wish someone would actually be honest and upfront about the necessity of The Granite Web for, to mere mortals, the business case just doesn’t stack up.
“As George has previously used the terms Nazism (subsequently withdrawn) and fascism when referring to the campaign against the CGP, his credibility on this forum is dropping even further, post by post.”
You think I’m concerned about my credibility?
I didn’t post to change anyone’s mind, I know that isn’t possible, especially on an extremely biased forum such as the Aberdeen Voice, I’m well aware of the position of the majority of the readers here. I do however hope that some people will see that ignoring the referendum is extremely undemocratic, judging by the latest opinion poll where 70% of those asked said we should listen to the result I appear to be with the majority.
I thank the editorial team here for allowing my views to stand, I expected heavy moderation.
An excellent post Melissa. Indeed the gardens do need improved access routes. I cannot deny that for the disabled, elderly or otherwise physically incapable there are not enough access routes which do not involve stairs. Let us hope that instead of the gardens becoming a concrete nod to people in high places they are revived and able to be used and enjoyed by all in a way and at a cost that the public deem worthy.
Doctor.
I had several people say they are delighted that the project isnt going ahead, that all the talk of it being empty was stupid, who the hell uses thier garden in bloody winter anyway??
There is NO good reason why they cant knock down the old offices and build the civic sq in the civic quarter and leave the green heart where it is….aberdeen didnt win britain in bloom with a concrete block!
George you are in ill informed troll and trolls shouldnt be fed! back under your bridge until something easier comes along….
George, if so many folk wanted the Granite Web to go ahead why did they not turn out to vote for councillors who shared their support for the development? It would appear that a majority of the councillors were elected on a clear promise to oppose the development. Is it not right that the fulfill their election promise?
Alasdair,
The referendum was when the people were asked to vote on the gardens, we did and the city garden project was the clear winner, local elections are decided on tens of issues, you can’t start moving the goalposts when you lose.
Sarah,
I’m sorry if you feel I’m trolling, I honestly didn’t think a call to support democracy would be met with such hostility and personal attacks. I respect yours and others opinions even though I may not agree with them, please try and do the same for me without stooping to insults.
George, please stop bringing up old hat. Either you’re desperate to get a big reaction from your trolling, or your support of the City Gardens Project is paying your bills. Democracy goes both ways. On a side note, you can’t ignore the previous referendum. You know, the one before the heavily funded council referendum, the result of which you claim must be supported by everyone—democracy anyone? Sarah is quite within her rights to express her belief that you are a troll; it’s certainly looking a lot like it based on what you’ve said so far!
Doctor
I live in Bucksburn and hand on heart never even knew the first consultation was happening, I’ve still to this day no idea in what format that consultation took. If I didn’t know about it then no doubt I wasn’t the only one, how can that be considered fair.
Regardless of what form it took even the most blinkered would agree that it was a very small percentage of the population who responded to it, the only fair way of asking the question to the people is to ask them all, the size of the vote in the referendum was huge and put shame on the turnout for the council elections.
Strange that you too claim I’m “trolling” when in fact I am on the side of the majority. Perhaps you can’t accept not everyone in the World agrees with your views.
looking to the vote, was the result swayed with online votes that where counted last? I seem to remember that things didnt look great for the utg web until the online votes where counted. I think i was around my mid 30`s when I began to realise when I was being influenced. Anyhows, what are the demographics of Aberdeen just now. Is it mostly young ppl or old?
I have to be honest here. I would like to see something happen down at UT, problem is I just didnt trust anyone involved with the current proposals. The £120 million budget was nonsense, the jobs created are being created anyway( I wouldnt want to be one of the businesses in those parks paying those rates).
My view that somebody needs this project to go wildly overbudget as it enevitably will, and will then seek to be seen to “help” the city for a small reward along the lines of ownership of the land, to then go ahead and build as they see fit.
This is as daft as a new football stadium that wants to compete with a failing AECC
How stupid and dated is the granite web going to look 50 years from now? Look at all the concrete eyesores thrown up in the 60`s. It will be a nice place for the homeless to hang out.
I would just like here to point out to George that Ian Wood (just like Trump) did NOT build his business from scratch – he is playing with his father’s money
Keep on writing, great job!
I find it increasingly hilarious that the impending shitcanning of the CGP is being painted by shills as ‘anti-democratic’.
Of course, if the RETAIN vote had come out on top, none of this would now be taking place, but it’s hardly a case of sour grapes – the rather sinister backers of the CGP would have known that the game was up, and would have slunk off into the night, rightly chastened.
Instead, they doubled down on their amusing little paid-for advantage, and went into the elections confident that they’d get the result they’d splashed out on.
The difference between the referendum and the election, of course, is that one was an ELECTION, and the other manifestly wasn’t. One required people to actively engage with the process of democracy, and one required you to put a code in on a website.
Put it this way. You could go out onto the streets of Aberdeen today, and ask 80,000 people what they liked best, apples or oranges.
52% of your constituency might say apples. But then a month later, if the ‘We Hate Apples’ party rather surprisingly gets into power, they sure as sh*t don’t have to start liking apples.
The cancellation of the CGP is the ONLY democratic way forward.
From a countryside point of view, the culling of deer is important and needs to happen, but in this instance if the culling of deer has taken place to protect trees which have been planted only to commemorate the Queens Jubilee well that is wrong. Wild life is more important than stroking the queens ego.
Disgraceful behaviour by Aberdeen City Council, they never conculted the Citizens of Aberdeen on planting a tree for all citizens, and certainly never said they would be killing deer in order to do this, I am not happy about them murdering deer in my name, but what’s new with the council, they believe they are beyod the law and have no idea what democracy means, hang them high
Hi there i am kavin, its my first occasion to commenting anywhere, when i read this post i thought i could also make comment due to this
brilliant article.
Annie, Annie, stop your greetin.
Annie, Annie, stop your bleetin.
Widdie’s nae changin Duthie or Hazeheid,
Just the ditch in the middle o Union Street.
Gordon Gordon get a grip
A doot yer brain’s developed a blip
The only ditch Annie wints ti see
Is the “ditchin” o plans fer UTG
Well Hankinshaw, I think that sums up this whole debate quite nicely.
Good day to you, my good person.
Doctor
A fine Aiberdeen quine ca’d Annie
Took a keek at Ian Wid’s plannie
And asked fit bright spark
Wid wreck Trainie Park?
But an egotistical mannie.
The Grunty Wib is awfy dire
But will lend a view tae Milnies Spire
Sir Ian believes he’s a’ times right
But we believe his plan is shite.
There was a fine singer named Lennox
Who said the web concept ‘is bollox’
‘The drawings are tosh’,
‘It would cost too much dosh.’
(Sir Ian is out of his box)
To go further, it’s interesting that the CGP shills got so heavily behind the ‘anti-democratic’ stance as their latest and probably last effort to sway popular opinion.
That only an imbicile couldn’t see through it is tantamount to the high-handed and – yes, I’ll say it – *contemptuous* attitude the pro-CGP adopted right from the start.
To be fair to the many successful businessmen behind it, it was dunderheaded move after dunderheaded move on their part – that they’re all extremely rich has less to do with their business skills and intelligence and more to do with them being unpleasant human beings. It’s a credit to the city that we’ve all been consistently unimpressed by their ham-fistedly proffered bauble.
And where’s George gone? Come back and tell us all how people getting what they voted for – as opposed to what they were asked their opinion on – is ‘undemocratic’
If this weather continues DT and his guests will be needing their sub-aqua gear.
This is just not right. These deer have a right to live here just as we do. Why cannot the trees have wire mesh around them like the ones i see when hill walking to stop the deer from damageing the wood . I cannot fathom why or how our council get these ideas from. Is there anyone with any good plans or ideas on this council.
What is wrong with the council? Why have they spread a campaign of propaganda, misinformation and lies to enable them to perform an illegal extermination of deer (because it is clearly not a cull)? Why do the council give no regard for the constituents who they claim to represent and who have time and again raised their disgust and disgrace and a totally unnecessary scheme that is wasting all our countil tax monies while they allow pot holes to get bigger, Union Street to fade to a shadow of its former self, bus services to get worse and worse whilst charging higher fares?
Come on ACC sort out our city and stop this illegal disgrace of a massacre – you can keep my tree in you scheme if it saves one deer, otherwise it very much is time to bag the bags a move to a more civilised sity.
That’s criminal. It’s disgusting the council should be ashamed. All the authorities that are doing nothing about this should be ashamed.
What’s worst, the tree planting business will probably never happen. If it does it will be a disaster. You don’t just plant trees and forget about them they need some initial maintainance to grow properly.
This killing is all about CON-servation zealots and their desire to create aesthetically pleasing woodlands for the sacred cow of public access. Their hate focuses on deer because they might nibble the shoots of saplings and on deer fencing because it doesn’t look natural. The persecution of deer in their home environment is not “conservation”; it’s the futher exploitation of the natural environment for human consumption by fake conservationists.
It is worthy of note that urban woodlands can be no-go areas and attract all kinds of anti-social behaviour. How often do we see incidences of serious assault, rape and murders taking place in such environments – just look at BBC’s Crimewatch and newspaper reports to see what goes on in these environments. Householders should also be concerned if their properties back on to these woodlands.
Humans have gone too far. Aberdeen City Council should be ashamed of themselves, both for the pointless culling of this many deer and for being unable to oversee a simple operation (do a thing and then keep a log of how many times you have done that thing). It would appear from the evidence presented thus far that the individuals shooting the deer are unable to count — possibly unsuitable candidates for a firearms licence — and that Aberdeen City Council could not organise an Oompa Loompa on Willy Wonka’s factory tour.
The whole issue has been a complete and utter disgrace. Lies from beginning to end. Believe me Aberdeen Council HAD and still HAS enough money to pay for other means of protecting the trees. Aileen Malone and all those associated with her should be sacked over this. SNH and The Wildlife Trust who were so involved in all this should also stop and try hard to remember just what their organisation stands for – they have lost the plot and should hang their heads in shame. I agree that in some instances a control of certain animals has to take place in special circumstances, although i don’t like it, maybe it has to happen. This was NOT a special circumstance, just someones stupid idea to look like they were doing something ‘green and environmental’. Time to get used to sharing this planet with our wildlife, or lose it for future generations. Aberdeen Council are a laughing stock to many people across the UK – but sadly this isn’t funny.
Annie, Annie,
Bring yer brush,
the bogs need painting,
And they dinnae flush.
As even hardy golfers will discover, the summer weather at Menie is not the same as they might be used to. Really quite a stupid place to build a golf course.
Aberdeen City Council is a corrupt, devious, deceitful and underhanded local authority.
Still £15m short on donations from the private business sector gagging for this to go ahead, we were told. One imagines that being the reticent, shy, self-effacing, publicity-averse philanthropists they are, content to take a back seat when publicity is offered, that they have already pledged the money and have just ticked the “no publicity” box.
The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
He made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate.
And don’t you forget it, peasant.
I was sorry to see that three of the Lib Dems enthusiastic supporters of the destruction of a lovely , near tame of herd of deer , on Tullos Hill , It has always been my belief , that this sorry affair , is a vanity project , by those involved . Two of them sent Caristmas cards , posing together at a manger , watched over by harmless animals , not a deer in sight . What did it mean ,.
I did not understand URI . The Xmas card was sent to us . a previous election type card arrived , listing all the things the senders claimed credit for , including , a tree planting scheme . No mention of the deer kills that are planned , plus the poisoning of scarce habitat for bees and other pollinators . Must be a secret . I can not change a word , It is all true . as I see it .
I do not want my Council Tax spent on killing beautiful wild animals. This is a disgrace and I feel that the council has not listened to public opinion. I do not want a tree planted in my name if it means the death of a deer.
America is watching this and all of the rational people see the folly, and are embarrassed and ashamed of how the Trumpster has unethically used his money as a weapon of corruption. That would be “just business” (which is shameful enough) but invading other nations is both unethical, and immoral.
If the Trumpster had only thought to look at an almanac, even he could figure out that what he has done, didn’t need to be, without a calculator.
Stick to hounding the Dictator in Chief at home. That’s what is needed anyway.
The figure of 8000 jobs is pure hopeful speculation and utterly baseless. The dependence on TIF is fraught with all sorts of difficulties, so many unknowns and what happens if businesses fail to produce the cash required? The council will be responsible which will mean cutting services to cover any (inevitable) shortfall.
Complete madness when all that is required is some intelligent updating of UTG.
Spot on Davie min,
. Ye shud be on the cooncil. Then agin maybe yer faar ower sensible ti be on the cooncil. Ye see things afore they happen.
This behaviour by Aberdeen City Council does not surprise me, I have also suffered abuse and underhanded discrimination from its staff.
I understand that some some road “realignment” north of Balmedie has been causing some disruption. Apparently there is a new golf course opening nearby with potential for a new hotel and 750 houses in the future.
Perhaps a Disneyland type mono rail system from Balmedie “park and ride” along the central reservation of the dual carriageway to Brig o’ Don then left along the beach Esplanade up the Beach Boulevard to Castlegate may be worthwhile.
this is AWESOME i’m moved to tears 》
According to this recent article in The Herald, “… the golf clubhouse, car park and a sign erected by Trump at Menie have broken local authority rules.” http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/environment/as-trump-flies-in-for-grand-opening-the-guest-list-diminishes-amid-outcry.1808
Moan moan f****ng moan that’s all we hear from you tree hugging beauts get a life
Best to ignore common muck like Paul, not only is he as thick as Trumps comb over…he’s actually proud to of it. Back to your Daily Star and Hollyoaks paul.
Away and hug a tree Keith you beaut
There you go again with that rapier wit Paul, you old scamp you!
Part of the link referred to above appears to have been lost – the full link is http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/environment/as-trump-flies-in-for-grand-opening-the-guest-list-diminishes-amid-outcry.18084672
thank you Paul for the incisive remark above; clearly you have weighed up the loss of the only moving sand dune area in Scotland, the manner in which people were treated, the loss of habitat, carbon footprint of the scheme….
For those who haven’t had as much time to weigh the issues as Paul has, please come along to the Belmont Cinema, Aberdeen this week for screenings of ‘youv’ve been trumped’, the Saturday showing(s) – or at least some of them – will have the director and affected residents. Perhaps after seeing the film and talking to people who are living through yet another Trump project, you might have a different opinion than Paul does. – Old Susannah
The owner of the house who had the Grampian Police vehicle outside his house which then followed him, has the right to ask the police officer/s involved to surrender their badge number, take the registration number of the police car and also contact Grampian Police and ask them what they were doing outside their house at 3.45 am and why they followed him. I also suggest they write to their M.S.P, M.P and Alex Salmond to inform them of this incident.
WOW a moving sand dune oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!! Whoop de bloody do get a grip and move on let’s hope it’s not too long till the UTG are bulldozed as well
How refreshing to see that intelligent articulation, reasoned argument and rapier wit still exist.
Nature reserves took a wrong turn in the past by stabilising sand dunes – the result was a loss of biodiversity. They are now tearing up marram grass to try to get their dunes moving again, though it will take a long time to get the original biodiversity to return. Trump has made the same mistake, but this time with a full understanding that it is a mistake, and in one of the few places where the biodiversity had not been lost. That is unforgivable, particularly as a golf course with identical geometry could have been built anywhere, and this crime against nature will disqualify Trump’s course from ever holding major competitions, destroying any ideas he has about its importance.
Hard to believe it happened after all the well directed opposition. I dare say it couldn’t have happened quite like that even here in the states. Loved Aberdeen when I was there (pre-Trump). Shame on Scotland’s national leaders for forcing this travesty upon it.
Amazing stuff this. Keep on saving cash like this and probably in about 780 years you will have enough cash to pay off Aberdeen F.C. debt of 15 millon.
Where was this “sporting integrity” when Aberdeen FC avoided relegation when Falkirks FC stadium was deemed unfit? why were Falkirk not allowed to use another stadium like Celtic were (Hampden).
This is a case of Turkeys voting for Xmas.
@Fred
Come back to me with facts and knowledge rather than succulent lamb rubbish.
Falkirk is amyth put about by Traynor and his ilk.
Oh and adults use their real names, they don’t post anonymously using cartoon characters as a front.
Why is it by the way ‘ a case of Turkeys voting for Xmas.’?
Yawn…
Goes to show if you repeat a myth often enough it becomes believable.
For the sake of clarity, again, Aberdeen FC did not avoid relegation due to Falkirk’s non-compliant stadium. The SPL was due to be expanded that season to a 12 team league and the bottom side in the SPL was due to enter a three-way relegation play-off with the second and third sides in SFL 1. Each team would play each other once with the top two teams from that mini-league playing in the SPL the following season.
Falkirk didn’t apply to groundshare elsewhere so that is a moot point.
Ah Caveman, the old Aberdeen avoiding relegation myth that has been perpetuated by the Glasgow media so frequently that people like you take it as fact. Here’s the FACTS!! In the season Aberdeen “avoided relegation” the top 2 teams in division 1 were to be automatically promoted and the third team were to play the bottom team in the SPL in a play-off, this because the SPL was increasing from 10 to 12 teams the next season. In March of that season (when Aberdeen still had a very good chance of avoiding the bottom spot) it was clear Falkirk would finish in the top 3 and therefore it was decided there would be no play-off, just automatic promotion for the top 2 teams in Division 1 with a stadium that met SPL criteria. Where would be the “integrity” be in allowing Falkirk to groundshare when clubs like Raith Rovers had complied with SPL rules and upgraded their stadiums to SPL standard, thus severely reducing their playing budget and chances of SPL football in the process? Even if there was a play off, Aberdeen would have been strong favourites to win and avoid relegation. Still, don’t let these facts get in the way of things!
I know you won’t get it but it’s not about paying off AFC debt, they’ll have to deal with that as best they can and take the consequences. It’s about supporting less well off teams that show integrity.
As for the falkirk saga…. aye,right.
Fred Flinstone – what a totally appropriate handle you have chosen for yourself and your soon to be extinct dinosaur of a club.
The decision on Falkirk was made well before the end of that particular season, it was not brought into to stop Aberdeen from going down. But why let the facts get in the way.
If it takes Aberdeen 780 years to pay off the £15m how long would it take RFC(IA/IL) to pay off the £134m you owe. Ah, I forgot you’ve gone bust and won’t be paying anything back.
Lets hope that come Friday RFC will be a footnote in the history books. You’re odious club will be mentioned in the same breath as slavery and small pox. Good riddance to bad rubbish you hun mink.
Aberdeen did not cheat! the now defunct team formally known as rangers did for many years and it is because of their cheating that scottish football is in turmoil. Supporters of the team no more really dont get it all the trophies won during the time of your cheating are tainted and of course anyone who disagrees with your take on things comes from a different religious background.
But I thought you did not care that no one liked you!! You are bigots, go away we dont want you in fact no one does.
Anyway this is no other teams fault othere than whats their name again?
I dont see what this article has to do with Falkirk or Rangers, but for anyone remotely interested in knowing the facts about the reasons why Falkirk failed to qualify for promotion, this is a good start.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/FOOTBALL%3a+SPL+throw+out+Falkirk's+Murrayfield+plea.-a061136911
Guys don’t listen to Fred he belongs to the past, he can only love things are exstrinct.
Well done dons fans for this initiative and other fans around scotland will compliment you by copying your idea.
Hail Hail
Eloquently put, fellow Reds.
On my day I could quite happily join in the eloquent and fact-based badinage exposing the inbred throwback, born on the day the gene pool attendants were on holiday. However I will content myself with a small smirk of satisfaction and a hearty good wish to the loathsome slithering amoeba in choosing a football team to support which is not a disgrace to competitive sport and 21st century social values now that the lying cheating tax-dodging bigoted right wing cultural monolith is in the ‘tits up’ position. Next time, to paraphrase Bertie Wooster, try walking the full length of the counter before making your choice you soap-dodging cretinous hun loser.
That’s all.
Good night buns, turn off the light behind you 🙂
Light? Their supply’s been cut off for failing to pay the bill.
Who is this stupid git Paul? Must have an IQ in single digits – or wait! He’s a golfer!!
Some cracking sectarian comments there guys, you do yourself proud.
Actually you will find that Rangers are not dead. We will rise up again whilst the likes of Aberdeen drop down due to their own financial problems etc.
Crowds of 4,000 for you guys this coming season.
Sporting Integrity my ar*e.
It seems lately that the First Minister has been attending a lot of various entertainment events, presumably at tax payers expense. For instance flying off to America to attend the premiere of a cartoon and more recently spotted at the Wimbledon Mens Final. I’m sure he will have great reasons why the taxpayer had to fund all these trips.
Sectarian? No we are Aberdeen we stand free from that nonsense and of course cheating by the way! Enjoy your trip to Peterheed on Aug 11th for your first 3rd division fixture 🙂 Actually I feel sorry for the Blue Toon having to put up with your bigoted, filth singing “fans”, just a pity the AWPR won’t be built so we don’t need to smell you. Having said that if your commenting on this fine Voice you are probably one of those Old Firm glory hunters that live in our fair city but don’t support your local team. GIRFUY
FYI, I was born and bred in Rutherglen but moved to Aberdeen for work reasons. Does this mean I should now support Aberdeen FC? This being the case should all Aberdeen fans who move to Glasgow, London, Manchester etc should forget about their original team and begin to support the teams in their new location? what a strange idea.
Repeated use of the sectarian word H*n is quite frequent among the Dandy Dons – not clever and on a par with using equally offensive words to describe people race or religion..
Anyway, it seems my prediction has came true very quickly – Inverness Caley being the first. Hopefully it will be another club who are living way above their means who get into serious trouble – how about Aberdeen FC?
I shall continue to support my team through thick and thin, and would also like to thank my Loyal Brother in Lodge 701 for their continued support and look forward to meeting up with all you guys when we visit our brothers in Peterhead.
If a local business man made this course no one would have batted an eyelid, as it’s Mr Trump the local socialists are up in arms.
I’ve been out for a look and the course has improved that stretch of coastline a million percent, it really is a brilliant course.
Look at the benefits for the entire community as well, as well as many jobs being created how much money will pour into hotels, restaurants, shops, taxi drivers, airport bookings etc etc, a couple of people having their view changed is a price well worth paying for the local economy.
Well done Mr Trump, ignore the vocal minority the silent majority are behind you and thank you for bringing this opportunity to Aberdeenshire.
Sue – hi. After you posted your update here I noticed yesterday’s Evening Express had an article on the sign at the entrance to the estate. Seems it’s not quite in conformance with the planning permission (like the car park). I thought I’d just do a wee analysis of this wonderful sign, at http://helpgov.wordpress.com/2012/07/14/whats-in-a-sign-the-new-trump-golf-course/. Enjoy.
There is little point in arguing with anyone like Paul. He doesn’t appear to have much intelligence or education which is why any explanation about dynamic dunes or Sites of Special Scientific interest are a complete mystery to him. He’s only heard about “tree huggers” from his tabloid- most likely the Sun- and obviously doesn’t realise that this issue has nothing to do with trees!
Fred, you’re still not getting it are you? If any the teams that you want to go bust actually go bust then so be it; they should have looked after themselves better. It’s hardly a “prediction”, the biggest team in Scotland has gone so spectacularly bust that it doesn’t exist any more so it’s not a surprise that there are others skating on thin ice.
Advice for the 11th Aug btw: remember to go straight on up King Street, nae turning right, that’s SPL only.
Roger,
It’s a sign!!
How can anyone get worked up about something so trivial??
Allan,
I believe Paul’s point was why do people moan for the sake of moaning, the article details every little negative but doesn’t once mention the positives, i.e employment and money for the local economy.
George – signs are not trivial, they tell you a lot. This one was given planning permission for a certain size and is 83% bigger than approved. That’s either careless (=incompetence) or deliberate (=couldn’t care less, the rules are for someone else not me). A bit like someone being given permission to build a 4-bedroom house next to you and suddenly it’s 7-bedrooms. And I wasn’t getting ‘worked up’ I gave an entirely rational analysis of the thing – read my blog post if you haven’t.
I had a look at some picture online – looks pretty good if you ask me! So what if he wants to hide a couple of ugly houses. I’m sure we would all like to do that to improve our views!
It is only pretty good if like artificiality and have no concept of what was lost by this act of vandalism
Paul is so funny. Anyone who looks at the evidence is a “tree hugger” Ha.
From the Express…
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/332934
“… a leading geomorphologist yesterday insisted that building the landmark so close to the “inherently unstable” coast could still prove fatal for Trump’s creation.
Dr Jim Hansom, from the School of Geographical and Earth Sciences at Glasgow University, explained that the defences will divert the water elsewhere, causing problems at other areas of the course.”
He told the Scottish Sunday Express: “The third green is eroding at the mouth of Blairton Burn, that area has been eroding for many years.
“The Trump organisation has gone ahead and protected about 250 metres of foreshore but if you protect one part of the shore, you automatically create erosion at other parts of the shore. Basically you’re be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
“It has an instantaneous impact – the shoreline is already eroding and it’s only going to get worse.
“From a sustainable point of view, the course should be designed to avoid those areas of erosion by building it further from the foreshore but that’s what Trump refused to do.”
He added: “Trump might well have built the best course in the world, I don’t know, but it is far too close to a coastal ledge that is inherently unstable.
“And it is not going to be helped by protecting bits that are already eroding, that’s the paradox. The erosion will appear elsewhere, along his own dune system and on to his own golf course.”
Meanwhile, fellow experts are predicting that “catastrophic” sandstorms could cover tees, greens and fairways in heaps of sand.
According to Andy Wightman, a researcher who specialises in land issues, the one-time dynamic dunes could continue to move north-wards despite efforts to stabilize them.
The analyst explained: “This is a living dune system which has moved half a kilometre in 40 years. Trump has went in and basically destroyed the most mobile part of it, added lots of Marram grass and sealed it all up.”
According to Mr Wightman, the course has already experienced “large blowings of sand”, including one last December which left the grass covered in an inch of sand.
He continued: “In a place like St Andrews you have to clear fairways very rarely because it is such a stable system, but Menie is such a dynamic and moving system, it will have to be done quite a lot.
“There is also the possibility that you have a catastrophic event which could smother several greens. You’d have to go in there with diggers, reform it and relay turf.
“It is not a place he should have built a golf course.”
Similarly, Jonathan Hughes, the Director of Conservation at the Scottish Wildlife Trust, said Trump had “ignored the laws of nature” when he built the course.
He added: “It wasn’t just the planning laws which were ignored during the building of this golf course, more worryingly for Donald Trump, the laws of nature were ignored too.
“Until they were tampered with, these rare dunes were highly mobile and will continue to shift, change and move, at least along the eroding coastal fringe.
“Not only has this destroyed the scientific interest at the site, it has also condemned his ground staff to endless battles with sand blowing in from the beach.
“We predict that on days when the south-easterly winds are strong, there could be several tonnes of sand dumped on the fairways, greens and tees.”
A spokesperson for Trump International Golf Links yesterday dismissed the claims as “complete and utter nonsense”, adding: “We built the course with the country’s leading environmental scientists, architects and engineers – nobody knows the land or golf course construction better than we do.”
Patrick,
You’ve just pasted more evidence of loony scare mongering tree huggers getting involved in something because they don’t like the golf course owner, are they really worried about Mr Trumps staff and all that sand they’ll have to clear?? lol!
Of course they’re not, they’re attempting to sway their target audience into believing the whole thing is a disaster in the making.
Please roll out the same “experts” for the Union terrace debate, you know, the same one’s who are going on about flooding and the loss of tree’s and rare habitat, these “experts” are good for a soundbite in any case where the socialists get a bee in their bonnet about a development.
Fact is the course is built and it has got great reviews in its first week, already the Scottish Open is being talked about for 2014, how many Millions will that bring into the local community??
Tree huggers should be grateful that their benefit money will be safe with these type of businesses opening up in the area.
George,
Both of your comments above show a considerable lack of understanding of the facts, first personally I am a resident at Menie and see the facts of the destruction most every day, second you talk of money and jobs comi g into the area. If you watch ‘you’ve been trumped’ you will see the ONLYindependant economic review of the project which describes it as ‘hopelessly optimistic’ etc in other words pure BS as for the jobs I was told directly by George Sorial on a tour of the course three weeks or so ago that a total of seventy people were employed on the estate. That will include the self employed caddies, in other words there are no significant jobs. Please open your eyes and look at the facts and not the hype. If you want to talk to me directly please do so, most people know how to get hold of me and I’m sure AV would assist if you require.
Aye, so we’re supposed to be grateful for the opportunity to get a zero-contract job carting around rich tourists golf clubs and spitting in their dinners? Patronizing nonsense. Just like the BS they were spouting about the UTG car-park creating thousands of jobs. Do they think we’re thick? Of course they do.
There’s plenty great golf courses in Scotland without having to fellate Trump’s ego and ruin our country’s greatest asset – its natural beauty and environment – just because w**kers like Paul and George want to putt around with Yank millionaires like they’re in the same league? Paul and George patronize us, Trump patronizes them, and I for one don’t want any part of their stupid wee game. I want our citizens and our land rights to be respected.
How sad that some of these deer may have been pregnant. Aberdeen City Council should be ashamed of themselves, they are not fit to run this city.
David,
It isn’t just the jobs on the estate, it’s the jobs created by all the industry that will service the golfers and the estate, that number will be huge. You and your neighbours have made your point but I’d rather look at this course than the ram shackled old farm buildings etc that some of your ilk choose to have on their properties . Progress is good.
If you really want to moan about something worthwhile that’s destroying our wildlife and habitat please start campaigning about the wind farm monstrosities, Calum claims he’s interested in natural beauty and environment yet puts a beautiful golf course before those stains on our horizons on his objections list.
I wonder what the articles on here would look like if Mr Trump was the man behind putting these uneconomical wind mills on our gorgeous coastline!
If the answer to the problem with unsold tickets is reducing the size of the sporting venues, could G4S’s problem with an insufficient number of security guards not be solved by asking those that they have recruited to bring a friend?
The proposed offshore turbines are for test purposes only, not for commercial energy generation. This means your charge of “uneconomical” is wrong, as that is not the purpose of the development. They should, however, help to make future wind energy developments more economical as experiments are conducted, results examined and decisions reached using these data as a basis. I think I may go and hug a land-based one.
Are there enough of you latter-day Communist naysayers to hug another million trees?
I think that sales of the Press and Journal and Evening Express will have fallen quite a bit, as more and more people refuse to buy them.
I suspect this is only the thin end of the wedge as it is alleged that the advertising revenue is dropping especially with regard to the “EE”
I was amazed when I moved down to Gateshead to find an old P&J van parked round the corner from where I was staying.
The main give away this blue transit was a P7J van was the traces of the lettering on the side of the van.
It always made me smile knowing that all those miles way, a bit of Aberdeen was still with me,
A large number of my ex colleagues will now be looking for work, which saddens me immensely. I started my career in this department and left after 11 happy years there.
However, a combination of falling sales, slumping ad revenues and the continued growth in digital has made this an inevitability and indeed a great shame. My thoughts are with all those who will be having to find work. Sadly, i remember someone at AJL actually stating that “digital would never catch on”, or words to that effect.
Brilliant as ever Suzanne.
Good job Mike. Thank you for wading through the waffle of the TIF buisness case that is designed to obscure the fact that the project is not economically viable. I really hope the council show sense and don’t sadle the city with further bad debt. It makes me ask the question, are our elected representatives equiped/qualified to do the job? From councillors to MP’s?
Last film shown in the 1960’s ? ….late 1980’s perhaps.
Gary,
Thanks for that correction. See reference 2. The council said:
“The cinema closed for regular film showings in the 1960s but was used for occasional rock concerts (including the Rolling Stones and Tina Turner) until 1998 when it was mothballed”.
Maybe it stopped showing regular films, only occasional films from the 60s. Maybe they just got it wrong.
Murray
Suzanne for Provost! Sadly, I stay in the Shire and my opinion is ignored, but, with folk like Suzanne on the side of the Gardens, they don’t need anyone else.
Linda Smith
A very good article Murray. The cinema down here in Hebden Bridge is a great old venue from the same era and was recently taken over by the local community when it was potentially going to be sold to developers.
http://yorkshire.greatbritishlife.co.uk/article/film-fans-celebrate-reel-life-in-hebden-bridge-33055/
Living in a council house I have often had to deal with Aberdeen City Council. And I can say (with evidence) that they (and their staff) are the most underhanded, devious, dishonest and corrupt local authority there is.
Sean, I can endorse totally what you say. The Council are without a doubt a lying and devious lot. Well at least the most senior members are……..
“What a tangled web they weave…..WHEN FIRST THEY PRACTICE TO DECEIVE! Don’t think so, Suzanne! Greed and avarice are their constant companions!
Good article – I had actually forgotten the extent of the enormity of the destruction of the Capitol. One of the disgraces of Aberdeen is that it lacks an auditorium fit for present day demographics and the Capitol at 2200 seats came close to purpose, on many occasions. (Music Hall 1300) Why did they lose sight of the fact that concerts there would retain people in the city centre, now (rightly) regarded as such a priority? Another big cinema, and again an auditorium by definition, is the Kingsway which I recall is even bigger. Aberdeen needs to take a proper comparison of the concert acts that come as far as Dundee and no further, by the way.
Hi Jake,
That was very interesting and brought back old memories.
I walked, paddled and crawled the entire length of the Denburn in 1981-82 from Kingswells to the Upper Dock and published it as a series in Leopard. Didn’t have a map and wondered where it would take me. I’ve been thinking of re-running it as a blog in the near future, each entry accompanied by an update. There’s been a lot of changes.I have to confess I turned back somewhere under HM Theatre, too many rats for my liking. Did the last bit on foot. Best wishes,
Diane
Diane, I remember those Leopard articles and would love to read them again. If you are thinking of re-publishing online, I am certain they will prove to be extremely interesting to those interested in heritage and its preservation rather than That Thing They’re Voting On Today. David
The ref dept of the library has a complete copy of the articles, photocopied from Leopard. It’s a great read and deserves to be republished and updated.
I would love to read your articles, Diane, I’ve been interested in the Den Burn since I heard a story from a bloke I worked with at Hazelhead som 35 years ago, and I realised it was still there, under the modern landscape.
Jim.
Well said Suzanne!
Good story, Jake. Makes me wish I’d taken you up on the offer of a re-enactment last year. How nice would it be to see water flowing through the gardens again? Sadly unlikely.
Apart from Callum McCaig’s tears you mean, Dave?
Excellent article.
Let me get this right; the CHAIR of campaigning group DEMOCRACY WATCH wants to ignore a DEMOCRATIC vote because her side didn’t win! hahahaha
You couldn’t make this up, brilliant.
If the referendum had been run fairly, then I would have agreed with you but .. to quote from the article above :-
“There was an unofficial group campaigning for the City Garden Project; and they bombarded the public with literature which I personally found misleading.
“I did try to complain to the Electoral Commission and to Advertising Standards, but neither could intervene in a referendum. There were glossy brochures, newspapers, print and radio advertising placed by this group which far exceeded the value that the official groups were allowed to spend. There were problems with the official material as well; the Green Party’s statement was cut off in the paper brochures for instance. “
Denis,
Commonly known as excuses for bad losers, I saw probably more anti CGP propoganda than pro, look at this site for example, 100% anti CGP and this is a “independant” site.
The anti people will get their wish today and imo it will set Aberdeen back years, who wants to invest in a City where a village mentality is rife.
George, whilst Aberdeen Voice welcomes your input and regards your opinion as valid as anyone elses, We would like to point out that Aberdeen Voice as an organisation does not have an opinion on UTG/CGP, and the reason you are seeing an imbalance is simply because almost all articles contributed to AV are from people who are against the development.
We do not censor, over-edit nor refuse to publish articles based on the writer’s opinion provided the content fulfills criteria which all publications are bound by.
Perhaps if other publications and media outlets operated similarly, Aberdeen Voice would not be the only/go-to option for writers whose views arise from a particular band of the political spectrum. Until this changes, I’m afraid our unbiased, independent publication is just gonna have to lean one way or another.
….. Anyway, just wanted to point this out ( as I believe I have previously ) …. carry on .. 🙂
George,
Are you aware that the first democratic vote was the public consultation vote which was conveniently
brushed aside by Sir Ian and his ACSEF cronies simply because THAT vote did not give them the result they wanted
I think if you seriously look into anti’s stance you shall find they are not against the Gardens having a makeover but what is being considered is not a makeover. Anyway the idea that The Granite Web
is going the rejuvenate the city centre is plain bonkers.Union Street is dead simply because shopping habits have changed and more and more people are shopping online or going to places like Union Square. A street full of financial institutions, night clubs ,coffee shops and charity shops is not condusive
to attracting people back to it. Building the Granite Web shall not alter that fact and the rest of the planned scheme I’m afraid does not add up. This is not just my opinion but is that of a London economist
And there we have, a city dying on its arse throws away the only real opportunity for saving it.
Have you people seen the state of the city centre, its populated by junkies and alkies with businesses folding and shops empty everywhere, and we throw away the only real regeneration option on offer.
Last one turn out the lights, a dark day for Aberdeen and democracy.
So the only way to save the city is to spend 140 million on some gardens? how’s that work then?
Kelly, how do you feel about the following since you suggested we couldn’t afford the £92 million?
“Councillors voted 22-20 against the project instead supporting a proposal the Independent Alliance Group, led by councillor Marie Boulton, to use the TIF money to regenerate Union Street, the Arts Centre, the Music Hall, the Lemon Tree and the Mither Kirk.”
Thanks for explaining the TIF business case Mike, I presume your opposition to TIF will continue despite the council pushing it through today?
Bob,
I never even knew about the consultation, hardly anyone did, the only fair option was to ask everyone, they did and we answered yes.
Now we’re still having to borrow the money but don’t get the major project we asked for.
They even respect democracy in Russia these days.
“They even respect democracy in Russia these days.”
What did I miss? Did Putin offer to send Pussy Riot over to perform at the City Garden Project’s opening?
A non-binding referendum intended to gauge public opinion produced a vote of 45,301 for the City Garden Project design and 41,175 against it. As a consultation exercise, it was far from being a decisive result….and in such circumstances, I think most impartial adjudicators would probably regard it as fair to take some account of the imbalance created by the use (on one side) of an expensive PR campaign.
For whatever reason, the pro CGP businessmen who instructed that expensive PR campaign didn’t think the imbalance mattered. The general consensus among them perhaps being “the ends we want justifies the means.” However, if you’re going to very clearly benefit from inequality one minute (when factors like cash flow and the political make-up of the local Council are in your favour) you’re in a weak position to complain about inequity when a new Council, one less supportive of your aims, is democratically elected.
To pursue that argument regardless is hypocrisy. When you’re feeling unassailable you might think “who cares about democracy? Getting what I want is all that matters.” Now suddenly, this week, democracy becomes something that matters. The problem is, if you’ve never cared much for issues like fairness, equality and democracy because you’ve never had to, you’re probably going to come a cropper when you try to participate in debates about these concepts.
If the majority of Aberdonians were strongly in support of the CGP, then they should have voted a pro-CGP Council in – and then the plans would have been accepted by the Council. That’s democracy. I know it’s disappointing for anybody who feels they didn’t get the best democracy money can buy.
The people who clicked on a link and clicked “vote for the city garden project” months back, when the Big Partnership PR company told them to, evidently weren’t sufficiently interested to participate in the local Elections. You can blame them for that, or you can blame democracy for requiring people to put on a coat and visit a polling station, rather than just clicking on a couple of links….but to argue that this outcome isn’t democratic shows a lack of understanding about what democracy is, and what it requires of all of us.
Bob,
Funny you should mention London, I was there on holiday last week, Trafalger square and Piccadily circus were both mobbed with people, if you create a natural gathering place people will come and spend time there, in turn the surrounding areas will thrive. This anti progress movement in Aberdeen is strangling us, it’s the dour “nothing wrong with it” attitude that has got us where we are.
Now the Full Council has thrown the plan out, maybe Sir Ian will put his donation to something the city needs. the “Sir Ian Wood Cancer Centre” sounds pretty good to me.
Thanks for this. I saw the P&J article on the proposed redevelopment calling the current building an ‘eyesore’ which made me really angry. The building is amazing, the only problem is it not being used. The last thing we need is another beautiful granite building being replaced by a generic corporate office block.
Another great one, Suzanne! Just one quibble – our former Provost was Peter Stephen, not John Stephen.
Well spotted Alex …. now corrected.
Amazing that this long article fails to even mention the central issues – (1) the public finance implications (debt, borrowing), (2) the effective transfer of civic assets and common good land to a private company and (3) the loss of the unique Victorian gardens we already have. The author seems to assume that any change is bound to be for the better – not so!
Excellent article Suzanne, reading AV is my favourite thing to do on a Friday.
Aberdeen Voice is of course inclusive and a forum for everyone, but apart from some of Amanda-Jaied McCahery’s infactual opinions. I had no idea Union Terrace Gardens had a seedy reputation or was known for, “harbouring many of the city’s undesirables”. Perhaps Ms McCahery is refering to Councillor Donnelly, who was seen on Wednesday.
You mean to say that some people complain that Democracy has been killed?
Surely Democracy was “hung” when the result of the first consultation was ignored… The body was then “drawn” when the CGT ignored the public’s “best-worst-choice” of the winter garden, in favour of the concrete, sorry, granite web, and it was finally “quartered” when the referendum expenses were “capped”, except for an unofficial group which spent a fortune on glossy brochures with fuzzy pictures and specious financial arguments…
It seems to me that this week’s result was the resurrection of democracy, not it’s death!
Well said Amanda, great post.
Just a pity the editorial team here have chosen to bury it away from the front page, they’ve even kept articles from last week ahead of this very relevant post.
It’s simple George. There are always 5 featured articles on the carousel. All contributors of articles are asked to provide at least one good quality picture. If the picture is adaptable for use on the carousel, and there are no copyright issues, then the article can be featured.
For today’s release, only two articles were accompanied by images suitable for the carousel, therefore two articles remain from Monday, and one from last Friday…. No burying, no bias.
However, it’s a shame you chose to bury your support of a new writer by dedicating more words in your post to drawing attention to your own jaundiced view of this publication.
I enjoyed reading your story Jake, as a child I would walk past part of the burn when I went to school. At that time being interested in spooky places I had also wanted to explore the undergound tunnel, but never did. I would love to walk right to the ending of the burn.
Vis-a-vis the Dons, let’s do some accuracy, shall we?
The plans have been in place for some time for Cove Rangers (a private company) to develop Calder Park as a Highland League football ground. Aberdeen FC (another private company in which I am a shareholder and season ticket holder) would use this facility to train.
It seems that the building of this facility, funded as I recall by Stewart Milne, Aberdeen FC chairman and Mr Bert McIntosh of McIntosh Plant Hire, Birchmoss, Echt, a regular benefactor to AFC, would allow Aberdeen FC access, a condition of planning, it is reported, to its proposed new stadium on the fringes of Loirston Loch, roughly to the south of Calder Park.
The Council, democratically elected and inheriting a debt of over £600m, seems to have decided (the meeting was understandably held in private for reasons of confidentiality) to take control of this land which it owns. This presumably means that a previous administration loosed control of an asset which belongs to the citizens of Aberdeen, where I am a Council Tax payer. I didn’t know that and I’m not sure, not having all the facts before me, if I’m happy with that.
This looks like a council re-asserting control over its assets, possibly in an attempt to realise their market value, quite a commendable action in today’s straitened times.
Councillor Young has pointed out that Aberdeen FC has planning permission to develop a stadium on the Loirston site and suggests that they go ahead and do so. It is well-known that the stadium development plans are in limbo due, it is rumoured, to the Club still having a funding shortfall in terms of the £30+m required to build the stadium.
I find the reaction of the Club somewhat hysterical in saying that the plans are dead. Might it be a convenient way of deflecting criticism from the current board’s inability to find the wherewithal to fund their ambitious plans?
Aberdeen City Council’s ruling coalition has taken a kicking this week despite its being crystal clear that the vote on Union Terrace Gardens was a manifesto commitment that would be honoured.
It is convenient then, when those who wish to lambast elected representatives for doing what they said they would do, conflate the two discrete issues and point fingers in what is possibly the wrong direction.
It looks simple to me – the Council will consider offers for the land in question, but at market rates. It is then up to those who wish to own it to find the money necessary to effect that purchase.
Cove Rangers’ silence on this is remarkable, but given rumours of that club’s struggle to find the funding necessary to make the move, that may not be surprising.
Good luck to the Dons on Sunday.
The article writer has conveniently forgotten that a consultation about whether or not to redevelop the gardens as per Sir Ian Woods proposals was ignored when the result was no! She has also failed to mention the fact that any concerns she may have had would have been resolved by the Peacock proposal which had funding in place and was scuppered by Sir Ian Wood sticking his nose into the affair. She has also ignored the fact that the scheme which was put forward was not the one the public voted for! Also ignored was the fact that the amount of money thrown at the referendum by the advocates for the new design and the misinformation regarding the Tif funding and amount of jobs the scheme would bring to the city and the fact that the booklet produced to give all sides opinions left out parts of the document sent in by at least one side who wanted to retain UTG. The council that was at the time also was biased toward the scheme and set up a video of it in the Art Gallery. The local press were also biased in favour. These things would not have been acceptable in a political election and it is my view that were the scales tipped more evenly then the people would have voted no. Anyway the council elections were about to be held not long afterwards and Labour immediately said that they would be standing on a no to the CGP mandate and they ended up running the council. Therefore IMHO the last vote which was the council election was the fairest vote and the one that should stand. I personally use the gardens and am in favour of restoring them in a sympathetic way but apart from the fact that to say that raising a garden will make all our problems disappear is nonesense there is so much wrong with that design……it is horrendous and full of nooks and crannies for undesirables to gather, dangerous in icy winters, will certainly not be a haven of peace and tranquility as we have now! As for Calder Park…..it was supposed to be for Cove Rangers……..why if AFC need to use it for their training ground, should they not have put in a planning application for the whole thing at the same time? Why did they not incorporate training facilities into their stadium at Loiriston and why don’t they do so and why not if they are having problems getting finance don’t they share Loiriston with Cove Rangers? As far as I’m aware they don’t have reserve matches when not playing at home so share with Cove and incorporate a training facility……however if you went for planning permission for Loiriston knowing it couldn’t operate without Cove getting their stadium at Calder Park then that was very bad planning indeed!
Stupid and illogical article. What a daft and odious woman
Karin,
You appear to have not noticed that the SNP polled more votes than Labour, you also appear to have forgot that local elections are not decided on a one issue mandate.
The only fair vote was the single issue referendum, we were all asked if we wanted the CGP, the people of Aberdeen spoke and voted for it, we’re all more than capable of making an informed judgement and we did, the arguments from your side are pure sour grapes, you and others are ignoring democracy, something I never thought I’d live to see in my Country.
Labour will get hammered in the next local election, the majority who never bother with local politics as all sides are self serving fools will turn out in huge numbers to get this undemocratic idiots out of office.
Local councils shouldn’t even be run by politicians but that’s a different argument for another day.
Just a note for the those considering following the Denburn: The amount of hard surfaces draining into the Denburn means that it can go from a trickle to a flood very quickly. Events at the weekend demonstrated just how fast this can happen, and I would be extremely wary about entering the culverts. If they block, as apparently happened this weekend, you could face the prospect of having to fight your way back against the current, in a confined space with rising water. Not a pleasant thought.
Ignacio, there have been at least two instances in recent years of the Denburn Car Park flooding to frightening levels caused by the Denburn backing up, so your advice is timely. The issue was also one which was highlighted when the currently-mothballed (but let’s maintain vigilance, shall we?) “plans” for CGP were put forward. The increase in areas of hard non-porous surface and concomitant swift rainfall run-off might have seen the circumstances which led to these floods and those at the weekend become a regular and if not hazardous, costly occurrence for those further up the watercourse.
Re Calder Park, as I understand it, having turned down all oil company sponsorship 20 years ago, AFC (aka Milne) are now trying to get hold of public money. Milne could put his hand in his pocket, or how about the Sir Ian Wood Community Stadium? As AV has pointed out. Loch of Loirston is not a fit place for a stadium due to wildlife and lack of public transport (with or without a new bypass). Labour have obviously looked at the ACC books and thought “enough is enough”. I have never voted Labour but good for them!
Couldn’t agree more Charles!
Karen,
Where do you suggest Aberdeen football club build the new stadium? I’ll pass your answer on to Mr Milne.
We don’t want to be moving wildlife 50 yards to the side so it will need to be a brownfield site, obviously next to a railway station.
Very interesting that Mr Milne turned down oil sponsorship, I’ve been an Aberdeen fan for 40 years and that’s the first I’ve heard of that, could you please pass me a link to this news?
Pity Labour didn’t look at the books before deciding to spend £62 Million doing up the new council office and giving £24 Million to the AECC to bail it out!
On Calder Park, it would seem from an interview published yesterday that the Council took back control of the lease from Cove Rangers since, after 12 years of discussion and negotiation, the Calder Park facility was meant to be completed by 01 September 2012. They’ve got 55 hours from now until midnight on Saturday then. I doubt it’ll be ready for next Saturday’s match.
The interview also stated that if Calder Park isn’t developed, the Dons can still fulfill the planning condition of alternative access via this route but that they will have to pay for it. I am one of around 7000 season ticket holders and one of around 15000 shareholders in AFC. Council taxpayers, feeling the pinch due to the recession, outnumber us by 7 to 1 and their needs, like it or not, have to come first. Still no statement from Cove Rangers or from the representatives of the ward or those who formerly represented the ward throughout earlier episodes of this long-running saga. That silence says much, I think. They’re skint although still able to offer Mike McKenzie, probably the Highland League’s best player, enough of a contract to entice him from Deveronvale.
I agree with George on oil company sponsorship not having been offered to my knowledge. I also agree with Karen on the craziness of the location at Loirston both from a transport viewpoint and environmentally.
“Where do you suggest Aberdeen football club build the new stadium?”
I think between the chip on Milne’s shoulder and the petted lip on display recently, there’s enough space for a stadium, training facilities, car and bus parking and a load of shite quality housing.
Anyway, they have a stadium. They can always ground-share with Inverness Caley until they tart it up.
Very mature response from one of the resident socialists who frequent this site and who hate all wealth creators, always some rich guys fault, no ideas to create wealth or to stimulate growth, always a negative.
Lets just give it all up and go back to living in caves.
Yaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwnn.
George, I have no problem with wealth creators. I do have a problem, however, with those who would create wealth for themselves by exploiting public assets, especially when such individuals are usually among those who denigrate and decry public services and servants. Getting counil-owned Calder Park on the cheap would be one such stunt and I’m delighted that a far bigger attempted purloining of prime city centre public land, with a bribe of £55m was halted last week.
Charles,
Just keep repeating those things many times a day and you and others will really start to believe there was nothing wrong in ignoring the referendum, sorry “non binding referendum” as the anti people now call it, we all know the truth of course but you and others just keep brainwashing yourselves.
It’s almost as if some anti people are now feeling guilty about ignoring democracy.
If Mike Shepherd and Suzanne and co had refused to be at the referendum vote because they believed it to be biased then their claims now would stack up much better, as it was they virtually drooled over the count and only spat the dummy when the result came out on the wrong side for them.
Jim the P&J seems to term everything old an eyesore. I remember going to my first gig there with my parents in the 80’s. It is such a shame as I think Aberdeen sorely needs a medium sized venue but I am worried that it is all going to either be knocked flat, become a gym or end up like the Tivoli on guild street.
My fear is that the architecture of Aberdeen is slowly being sterilsed into a bland mediocraty of unispired blocks of concrete
It was definitely later than the 60s. I’m sure I saw Back to the Future 2 and 3 there 🙂
I believe there has been some recent investigation into bringing culverted inner-city waterways back to the surface. SNH were keen to restore lost rivers and burns and were looking for suitable sites. Resurrecting the Den Burn as part of any future redevelopment should not be discounted. The flooding problems could be addressed at the same time although it might mean turning the back of Belmont Street into a flood plain, not too different from its usual weekend state.
It is factually inaccurate to say that Labour secured a majority in the local elections. They are the single largest party (although they came second in the number of votes) but are in coalition with the Tories and independents.
The pro CGP parties did secure more votes and seats than Labour.
The vote against the CGP was secured because two Lib Dem councillors – elected on a manifesto which said the Lib Dems would respect the referendum result – voted against. Perhaps the self-appointed Democracy Watcher would like to investigate that.
“Perhaps the self-appointed Democracy Watcher would like to investigate that.”
I wouldn’t hold your breath, it’s only a issue for the democracy watchers when the result doesn’t suit them. Good post btw.
Hireton, your statement re.the Lib Dems is factually inaccurate. The Lib Dems are quick to state that they do not operate a whip system, so any pledge as a party to ‘respect the referendum result’ is meaningless as well as ambiguous. As it was, 3 LD candidates went public with their personal opposition to the CGP, and those 3 were among the 5 who were successful in the election.
I see George has shown what a hypocrite he is, he only compliments writers who say what suits his own view, without checking if their arguments hold water. Tell you what George, why don’t you go investigate your a**e just to ascertain it’s not actually your elbow.
( No offence Hireton, but it’s no great compliment getting praise from a guy who supports the English Defence League. At least it seems as if you read the article before challenging it’s substance. I’m not sure George actually gets beyond the title. )
Could you please explain how “the people of Aberdeen fought back and won”? this seems strange considering the referendum came out for the project. I think you will find that there will be another vote by the councillors and the true feelings of the people will come through – otherwise they will not be councillors much longer.
Personally I thought it was a great project, hi jacked by the usual tree huggers and Johnny come latelys.
A typically one sided point of view of the whole debacle. Where are the points about a democratic decision being made by the public and being overturned by the local council. you might not have liked the result, but a result it was!
[Blocked by Moderator]… Sorry George, we can allow a wide range of opinion in our comments, but direct, dubious and unsubstantiated accusations of a specific nature are considered defamatory and open to prosecution. For Aberdeen Voice to publish would be to accept liability for same.
Feel free to reword your comment with this in mind. Thanks.
The local council IS democracy. The last lot shat it close to an election and weaseled out of making a decision and left it to “the people” who were then bombarded with glossy promises of deliveries from on high of sugar candy mountains and Moray Cup fountains. Councillors are paid nowadays and failed to do their job.
Check out what you were voting for in February. The vote was about whether or not to continue examining proposals to allow the second choice Granite Web design to be built. There were and are NO plans just artists’ impressions of woolly, naive concepts.
At least apprise yourself of some facts before commenting. It gives any point you may try to make a bit more credible.
We can’t afford it (there’s a recession on and the real public spending cuts in Scotland have yet to be implemented) and the business case wouldn’t even make it past the desk of a Channel 5 comedy commissioning meeting, it being so far-fetched, vague and more full of holes than a second hand dartboard.
Just sayin.
Absolutely fabulous, darling… keep up the good work!
Twofaced, Freddy, have you conveniently forgot that the public rejected the project in the first (and only fairly conducted) consultation back in 2010? Or does ‘democracy’ only count when it goes your way by a small margin swung by massive pressure from one side with unlimited spending power after multiple attempts? What about the design vote where the public vote was also ignored because it didn’t go the way big business behind this whole scam wanted? Sure that’s democratic, pretend it didn’t happen! Or that none of these votes was legally binding except the councils rejection of the project? Democracy certainly isn’t well served by uninformed and uneducated hypocrites like yourselves. Freddy-come-lately, by all means inform us all about how CGP was rejected in 2010.. didn’t think so!
Excellent way to win an argument… hurl insults!
I am not a Chav nor a moron. I would say I am quite informed and certainly educated However if you want to resort to petty name calling by all means knock yourself out.
The Cyard, I have read the business case, and forgive me but I am more likely to trust the findings of a suitably qualified experienced person reporting on these matters than somebody totally opposed to the project. There is a shortage of suitably qualified or experienced staff in Aberdeen, and we need to attract these staff if Aberdeen is to continue to prosper. This requires significant investment in Infrastructure which the TIF was going to do. it wasn’t just about the City Garden Project. Yes it might have been a big part of it but so was other projects like the St Nicholas House redevelopment and the Art Gallery redevelopment.
You’ll probably tell me that these are just big business’ creating more profit for themselves but unfortunately the council have little or no money, so the only investment is going to from Business.
Aye, 3-1 on aggregate. UTG was 2-0 ahead before CGP paid a fortune to bring the score back to 2-1 but Crockett sealed it with a late third from a Boulton cross to relegate CGP for good.
Councillors are held accountable for decisions taken, electors, or voters in a loaded referendum are not. The new régime has taken responsibility. The last lot, as I said above, shat it, shirked their responsibility and organised a one-sided referendum on the orders of their masters in Holyrood, who would be spitting blood if Westminster interfered in something that they hold dear.
For god sake people – the Capitol is the last remaining ‘icon’ of cinema history in Aberdeen. I used to play the wonderful Compton organ there when I was a kid. I grew up in Aberdeen and this building should not be allowed to fall. I will do everything in my power to rescue it but especially the organ which is such a rare instrument. One of the last to be in its original setting in the whole of the UK. PLEASE PLEASE anyone who wants to help, get in touch with me. I am at chasdavidson@hotmail.com !!!!!!!
This article has got it spot on. For the last two generations, two attempts have been made to secure this prime city centre location by the business community. Their last attempt was particularly nasty. As previously said, the original consultation resulted in a “no” vote. Then there was the further consultation, where models of the various proposals were put to the public. Again, their choice was disregarded. Finally we had the very one-sided referendum, full of dubious assertions (disproved by a leading economist) and a vast imbalance in funding between the two sides, to ensure they won the day. The business community should hang their heads in shame on this one. Labour made the cancellation of this project a major plank in their manifesto and received increased support primarily because of this. The percentage of the citizenry voting in the Local Government elections was much greater than that of the “referendum,” – around 20% participated, as I recollect. Labour should be congratulated for dumping this project, potentially saving the city from plunging further in to debt. At the end of the day, no one actually knew what the finished article would be, given the “artists impressions” were totally misleading along with the fact that no firm decisions had been put forward for the content of the “garden”. No one, with any sense, buys a pig in a poke.
Ron,
You have your facts wrong, the percentage turnout was much bigger in the referendum than the local election, I believe around 50% of the citizens voted in the referendum whilst the council election saw a poor turnout of less than 20%.
I do also hope you realise that Labour pushed ahead with the plans to borrow the money, they actually asked for £92 Million to spruce the place up a bit, this is something the CGP opponents have went strangely quiet on, only a couple weeks ago they were screaming the project would bankrupt the City. The government have told the Council they have little chance of getting the money.
Where does that leave us now? Well we won’t be seeing any investment in our City centre, Mr Wood has pulled his £50 Million off the table and the government are going to say no to the £92 Million, the new rates money from the estates popping up in BOD and Dyce will now go straight to the government to no doubt be spent in the Central belt and Aberdeen will slide further into decline.
I can’t help but think that Labour and the anti CGP people just didn’t think this one through, the one glimmer of light comes from a comment from Cllr McCaig in todays EE, “It is almost inevitable that the City Garden Project will come back to council within the next 12 Months” .
We can only hope for the sake of our City that this comment comes true.
There are many things I love about Scotland, but the SNP is not one of them and it is clear the SNP do not love Scotland. Aberdeen will not forgive the Scottish National Party councillors for the damage they have done to our city.
Gordon McIntosh, with staff like him in the council no wonder ACC has such a poor reputation.
Susannah,
I suggest you pick up a copy of last nights Evening Express, the council have pressed ahead already with the £92 Million TIF application, infact the government already have the paperwork, hence if we get the money we’ll still be £92 Million in debt, the only difference is we won’t get much for our money, a few buildings cleaned up is the aim of our Labour led leaders.
I look forward to you to soon condemning this hastely thought up TIF application, as you say we don’t want our city £92 Million pounds in debt over some “real estate speculation”.
No point in staging a protest or demo in the middle of a desert where there’s nobody to see or hear you and where you can safely be ignored … guess that’s the idea.
Looks as though a lunatic may be in charge of this particular branch of the asylum
If this is accepted by the local authority, we’ll need to test it out, just to see that it works, of course.
Utterly contemptible! This could have a knock-on effect throughout the whole of the UK, as other councils face budget cuts, and seek new revenue streams. If allowed to progress, this could seriously damage the future of public parks.
You reap what you sow Mike, you got the council you wanted, an inept short sighted bunch of people, as Bob Smith says the lunatic may be in charge of the asylum.
Ach, you’ll have to do better than that George. The author of the paper is not a councillor and having known him since schooldays he is definitely not a Labour voter. He also looks after ACSEF’s Management Team (whatever that is). You may also like to read the link quoted in the Voice article which shows that this is an update of an earlier price list.
“However, ever growing demand for use of the City’s Parks and Open
Spaces has taken a toll on the maintenance of these areas, and it
agreed to introduce a pricing structure from 1 April 2012, to contribute
to daily maintenance costs.
Each stand alone event incurs a minimum daily hire charge of £250,
regardless of status – charity, corporate, private or otherwise.
A copy of the 2012/13 pricing structure is included as Appendix 1”
That’s “April”, George.
The elections were in May.
There is very little chance, given that the current administration didn’t get behind their desks until May, then had to divvy up the committee responsibilities and then tread water during the holiday period, that anything this analytical has been produced in that period.
Therefore I don’t think for a moment that this is an initiative originated by the current administration, although given that this isn’t the Labour Party as I grew up with it, I will not be surprised if they support it.
I suggest you read my post again my friend, no where did I mention anything regarding Labour, though they no doubt will be in favour of these charges.
I said you reap what you sow and we have an inept group of people now in charge, they have shunned private money and thrown away the chance of a tif loan, they’ve left themselves little choice but to raise funds from the public directly, they have no other options! We’re out of money!
Regardless on this occasion they may just have got it right, is it unreasonable to charge for a council space being used for something other than personal use.
Great article, Suzanne. That they’ve been allowed to get away with this defies belief. Where are the intrepid investigating journalists of wir local press and other media?
Excellent Article Suzanne !!’
The “Piss and Urinal” and the “Evening Distress” wont be happy bunnies.
PS – if you would like to see more photos, here is where to look
http://oldsusannahsjournalchildrenschristmasartwork.yolasite.com
Yes this looks like a council project. A mess.
Photos before the hash up would be good
Sheila, there’s a search tab top right on the page. Click this and type in ‘Tullos’ or ‘Tullos Hill’ for previous articles where pictures previous to the carnage have been used. There are not a great many pics, and there are quite a number of articles to wade through … however, here is a link to an article with one of my favourite pics of Tullos Hill before the cull/planting.
https://aberdeenvoice.com/2011/11/a-meadow-sweet-experience/
See also: https://aberdeenvoice.com/2011/05/picnic-on-tullos-hill-deerwatch/
I feel sorry for that wee lad Brayden, just a baby and already he is experiencing discrimination. I think I will avoid spending money in a Costa from now on.
Aileen Malone is quite a bad and lazy councillor, (I was surprised she was re elected). But I hope she has to face legal repercussions because of her behaviour.
The sooner ACSEF is folded the better.
“Verdict: Newspapers can take any side of an issue they want; that is democracy. However, do you want a paper that gives you one side of an issue, or one that covers all ground?”
The Aberdeen Voice has been the most one sided publication in this whole affair, pot kettle!
At least the local papers gave both viewpoints, the feature writers on here have rammed their personal viewpoints down all readers throats.
How about also canvassing for those duped into voting against the CGP by the Mike Shepherd adverts, in the interests of democracy. I can’t believe the low regard the anti people have on the ability of the Aberdeen people to make an informed decision regarding the gardens, according to them we were all brainwashed by a few adverts on some local radio stations, what a load of biased rubbish, you lost a referendum based on the fact you didn’t get enough votes, stop looking for excuses to explain that away.
Funny you should actually mention the web and the disabled in the same article, my father is wheelchair bound and would love to visit Union terrace gardens in a safe manner, that’s why he voted for it to be raised, he wasn’t swayed by the press or the radio he simply wants to access the gardens in the city centre when he’s shopping on Union Street.
I also feel you do a disservice to disabled people by stating they will be pushed into low paid menial work, especially be bringing the Walkers child into your article, many disabled people excel in school and go on to have very successful careers, why do you doubt the Walkers child may be one of them? I once worked at BP with a gentleman who was paralysed from the neck down, he was a very successful analyst.
Hello George – while I’d made it a rule not to reply to the posts on articles / satirical columns I write (note – this is a satirical column), you seem to be missing some facts evidenced by your post above.
Dame Anne Begg is one of several people I know who visit the gardens in her wheelchair. The entrance is on the north side not far from HMT. The next time your father wants to visit, I, Dame Anne, or members of Common Good Aberdeen will be happy to show him how it can be done.
I don’t believe that you’ve grasped the concept of my linking the mythical, non-existent, unspecified jobs the web’s proponents are promising to create with the way the Government is now trying to force people into work who should not be working. It’s happening to people I know who are incapable of working, but are being pushed into taking menial, low-paid work to hold onto the meagre benefits they get. My friends with special abilities have been able to understand the sarcastic link I am making at the expense of those who would force people unable to work into work, and the massively inflated claim the web will bring thousands of permanent jobs (this figure surely must be including low-paid cleaning, maintenance-type posts – or are we all getting white collar work?). In fact people have asked me to post links to this piece so others can see it.
So if you don’t get what was being alluded to, hope this has helped. Please do take your dad into the gardens – the break the gardens provide from the wind, the fresh air, the sight of people enjoying themselves will do you both good.
My father goes into town with my mother on the bus, due to their ages the walk to the North side is just too far, I also wouldn’t encourage them to be going through the tunnel down there, it’s a well known hang out point for the less desirables in our City.
I also doubt anyone incapable of working is pushed into a job, if their disability allows them then I see no reason why they shouldn’t work, if they are only qualified for low paying jobs then so be it, however I would never class someone’s work as menial, I think you should rephrase that term if you write on this subject again.
The new industrial estates being built right now in Dyce and Bridge of Don will provide a broad spectrum of jobs, from low paid to high, the business rates from these companies would have gone to the TIF loan, instead they will go directly to Central government and will no doubt remain in the Central belt. I have no objection for people wanting to keep the existing gardens but when they twist facts to back up their story then it becomes a problem, the 6500 jobs was based on a report by an independent company, they had no reason to make anything up.
Will the industrial estates attract companies that view Aberdeen as a hard place to do business and a place that has huge traffic problems? That remains to be seen but the recent decisions by our Council will not have made the task easier. I suspect many will view a vibrant Dundee a nicer place to go than a dying Aberdeen.
George, if your father is in a wheelchair, i’m sure he has a bus pass which would also allow your mother to travel for free… if the walk to the North side of the gardens is too far there are a number of buses that go from one side to the other… i’m sure they could manage to use these to transport them both… i access the gardens via the tunnel with my 2 children (one of whom is in a pushchair and the other has learning difficulties) with no problems at all and i can assure you i would not do so if i felt my children or i were at any risk from undesirables… to be honest, i have felt more discomfort at the prospect of walking down union street with my children at times than i ever have at the prospect of entering the gardens. Hope this helps 🙂
Yep! Your column resonates (terrifyingly) with me this week. I had to fill in one of the interminably long forms for ATOS a couple of weeks ago and, if you’ve seen the questions, the criteria they appear to use would make as much sense to a monkey as to a health professional. But, of course we know that it’s not health professionals they use. It’s purely a tick–box exercise and the ‘professionals’ will just have a little chart sitting next to them and if you score over a certain amount (assuming they can do arithmetic) that’s it – you’re stuffed. I got my Macmillan Project Worker to go through the whole thing with me, but I have still heard nothing back. I’m hooked to my feeding pump 15 hours a day and depending on how my throat and every other bit of my body feels, I may have to spend up to another hour a day administering drugs. So, sixteen hours a day. And did I say I sometimes have to be sitting VERY close to a loo? I don’t think any of these factors are taken into account. Dr Bick speaks the truth, I’m sure. One of my friends was working for Triage, one of two companies in this area of the country, contracted by the Government to run the DWP Work Programmes for long-term unemployed. What he told me was just as scary – they had similar targets of getting people off benefits altogether and that they were so pressured that there were NO criteria for deciding who to target. So, if perhaps you’re face didn’t fit with your advisor you were basically f**cked. I don’t know how bad it’s got in Aberdeen yet but it’s nnot going to get better any time soon. Pleased to say that said friend now works with disadvantaged people/families at a charity in the city now. That’s my rant for the morning!
Good morning George – Common Good Aberdeen hosted an event in the Gardens to celebrate the Queen’s Jubilee – Jubilee Tea in UTG! It was a wonderful day, celebrated by young and old, and what was significant was the amount of elderly/ less able, who were using walking aids, or were wheelchair bound, or who had difficulties with sight, or parents with children in buggies/prams, who all came to the gardens via the rear of HMT. I’m not sure what tunnel you are talking about, so perhaps I have misunderstood what you were saying. Yes, I agree, it would be great to have better access from Union Street, but that is something that can be worked for once agreed plans to upgrade the existing gardens are in place, but, as I said, there is reasonable access for all to enjoy the peace and quiet of Union Terrace Gardens.
Ruth, I’m sure in your position you won’t be forced into work, the main targets are those who use the invadility benefits as a lifestyle choice, if they didn’t exist then you wouldn’t be in the position of having to justify yourself to get the benefits.
I’m aware of someone who has pocketed invadility benefits for over 20 years with a “bad back” yet props up the bar in my local pub every day of the week. As a Country we can no longer afford to pay these people. It is quite right that filters are put in place to stop these people, that others have to justify their illness by filling out a form is a small price to pay.
Dorothy,
Thanks for the advice but I can’t see the prospect of multiple buses just to enter the garden being very appealing to them, I suspect they’ll rather just wait till the garden gets brought to street level as per how they voted.
The Press and Journal and Evening Express are the most dishonest and misleading (so called) newspapers that I know of. More and more people like myself refuse to buy them, DC Thomson also own other publications which I also boycott and as soon as the Aberdeen Citizen comes through the door it gets thrown in the bin.
One of the effects of a small city is the fact that the same people tend to be involved in lots of things. In some ways, this can help – as people get to know each other and work together.
All too often, it can hinder – as the same people, consult with the same people, hearing the same point of view, and taking it to be universal.
ACSEF is a symptom of this – and as the author of this piece rightly states, Aberdeen needs to look beyond the same faces that have been involved in the past. Aberdeen needs to seek wider viewpoints. A good start would be to spend more time talking to the city’s young people.
For as long as the city’s councillors – and Scotland’s politicians focus on a handful of ‘elite’ businesspeople, and forget the wider community, the city will flounder.
If it would require “multiple buses” for your parents to visit UTG – a prospect which, you say, would not be very appealing to them – then clearly Sir Ian Wood’s Granite Web would not be the answer. Perhaps, depending on which service they use, a letter to Sir Moir Lockead’s successor at First Group, or Sir Brian Souter at Slagecoach Bluebird, asking for ‘bus services to be improved might be more appropriate.
H Harper, Access from Union Street would be very appealing, just one bus from Bucksburn to there.
Even a Plaza covering the railway lines and roads would be much more appealing than what we have now, pity the anti people have now delayed any chance of us getting the TIF loan the City so desperately needs, as it stands all new business rates from the new industrial estates will go directly to the Central belt instead of going to rejuvenate our City, something the anti people didn’t think about in their haste to campaign about something.
At least we have Mr Trumps investment bringing new visitors, nothing else in the City is doing that, it could be so much better if we didn’t have this radical left wing minority spoiling the wishes of the indigenous people, everything is a struggle, from a simple road bypass to a new World class golf course right through to improvements in a underused hole in the ground there is always a wall facing progress, this has to change or this City is forever going to be seen as backward, the rate of decline is actually frightening.
Sorry George, but I am at a complete loss to understand how it requires only ‘one bus from Bucksburn’ to reach Union Terrace Gardens yet it would take ‘multiple buses just to enter the garden’. Clearly there is some esoteric scientific principle at work here which is completely beyond my extremely limited intellect. Perhaps you could explain it to me.
H Harper,
It really is quite simple, it takes one bus to get from Bucksburn to Union Street, if my parents were to try and get to the garden it would take at least one more bus to take them to the garden entrance, perhaps you could take your “extremely limited intellect” back to the top of this thread of posts and read them all.
I did follow the thread hence my picking up on your use of the word “multiple” when describing the number of buses which your parents would be required to take in order and I quote you George, “just to enter the garden.” Now I don’t know about your dictionary, but mine defines ‘multiple’ as, ‘having or consisting of many parts, elements etc; manifold,” which I understood to be more than two i.e. one to get to Union Street and one to get to the garden entrance but clearly, once again, I must bow to your superior intellect.
Shakes head!
I’m not going to lower myself to your level of debate.
Btw H Harper, when using the first link off Google please don’t edit the contents to suit your agenda, lol! You may just get caught out!!!!! 🙂
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/multiple
Having, relating to, or consisting of more than one individual, element, part, or other component; manifold.
Not Google Mr S but Collins Concise English Dictionary – see page 494 between ‘multipartite’ and multiple choice’.
End of conversation.
Surely if Wood Group were asked to build a natural gas power station by the Dorad Energy, it must off been under instruction of the Israeli government. Why would Wood Group even know where the electricity is going? They are not the distributors they are constructing a power station. This is yet another attempt to blacken Sir Ian Wood the pro UTG group if its not why have you not mentioned all the other UK companies currently working in Israel. Is the gas being produced in Israeli waters by UK and international companies going to the West Bank probably not but you haven’t even mentioned another company.
I agree that Israel’s occupation of the West Bank is wrong but to hold Wood Group responsible come on grow up.
Thanks for a very enlightening article. Some people have no scruples about making money out of the misery of others. Am I surprised at this behaviour? Of course not.
The Tesco heiress Dame Shirley Porter has strong connections with Israel and has ploughed millions of pounds into the country. I no longer do my main shop with them, but sometimes have to go to the small Tesco for milk.
I am surprised that staff in the city council are claiming to be bullied, I always thought they were more than able to look after themselves. I have first hand experience of ACC employees tactics of intimidation, threats, dishonesty and bullying.
Bullying of officers at ACC? Never! Now, bullying of council tenants is another thing. Defending the indefensible is another. In the recent past, ACC, very kindly, installed a more modern gas central heating system in my home. This reduced my gas bills markedly and I was delighted. Prior to installation, I requested that I keep my gas fire as backup, given central heating systems require electricity to work. Officers held up their hands in horror at this, citing that gas fires were extremely dangerous and I could die if I kept mine. They also pointed out that I would need electricity to light my gas fire in the first place. When I pointed out that I’d managed just fine with matches for some thirty years (thereby saving a fortune in electricity), common sense still didn’t prevail. After a year of prevaricating, they eventually agreed that if I installed a fire myself, they would service it. Very benevolent, given the threw out one that had twenty years more life in it. The overall cost of their untenable position must have cost thousands. Wonder why ACC is so endebted?
Their latest trick (courtesy of said Pete Leonard) is to argue that showers must be sited at the head of the bath, instead of the foot, because you could fall and strike your head of the taps. Really? Last time I looked, if you fall backward from the head of the bath you, more than likely, will crack your head off the taps. Standing at the foot of the bath to shower, on the other hand, guarantees you will fall backward away from the taps. Much safer I’d say. But oh no, ACC sticks to it’s ill thought out guns.
The list goes on and on. The tactic sems to be, if you can’t win an argument logically, throw it into the long grass in the hope it will go away. Like Old Susannah, alas, I don’t go away. Such a shame our city officials can’t go on a common sense and integrity course. Much more beneficial than health and safety that would be.
Ah, the joys of religion. Were it to be banned, what a peacefull world we would have.
No doubt about it, smoking is harmfull to all. But then, so are the multitude of vehicles on our city streets, especially deisel powered ones. The junction of Union Terrace and Union Street has some of the highest levels of pollution, caused by vehicular traffic, in the Western World. Do we all wear face masks or ban cars, buses and lorries from that locus? When challenged about the removal of the mature trees in Union Terrace Gardens (which make a valiant effort to remove some of the noxious substances from our heavily polluted air), one proponent of Teletubbieland argued that the harbour was just around the corner, totally failing to notice the fumes pumped out by the large ships therein, or the gridlock on Guild Street and Market Street which adds to the problem. Yes, smoking may be unhealthy, but there are many more pressing problems for the good citizens of Aberdeen and their offspring
How predictably to see a bit of anti – Israeli posts on this site. I trust since you are all so concerned about down trodden people then you will consistent in your views and also refuse to purchase any items from China, Cuba and Iran. No? I thought not – pick on the Jews, easy targets.
Fred, for the sake of clarity, this site/Aberdeen Voice has no view on the subject.
Any leanings you perceive on any subject is an accurate reflection of what has been contributed.
We neither censor nor select. Rather, we aim to publish every contribution we receive and present same in a professional manner whilst editing as little as is necessary, regardless of the writer’s leaning.
Please regard our willingness to publish comments which refute, disagree with, or are critical of particular items/writers as indicative of our being open to article contributions which present a differing or opposite slant to that which you believe is prevalent.
Imbalance, perceived or real, has as much to do with what is missing as what is there. Aberdeen Voice has no control over what writers choose to contribute … or not as the case may be.
Thank you Suzanne for this article, and for Ron Campbell’s comment demonstrating the similarities between passive smoking and traffic pollution.
Tillydrone Community Council raised a question at the NHS Annual Review asking why, with so much evidence of health issues, does NHS Grampian not campaign for traffic pollution action to any extent compared to that for passive smoking, alcohol consumption and obesity.
We have yet to receive an answer although Sir Lewis Ritchie, Director of Public Health, on the day, did say there will be Health Intelligence analysis of all community health issues.
In developing our case for the 3rd Don Crossing Compulsory Purchase Inquiry last December, Tillydrone Community Council have gathered extensive information on the effects of traffic pollution on health.
Unsurprisingly the Scottish Government Reporter dismissed this evidence advising the Government that economic issues are above matters of health.
The experts in your article say any quantity over 25 micrograms of smoke in a cubic metre of air space is harmful. We have a screenshot of the 24 hourly mean PM10 particulate matter recorded at the Aberdeen King Street monitoring station on 2nd February as 38 micrograms per cubic meter, and this is identified as being ‘Low’, (high is 75 to 99 and very high 100 +). The more dangerous smaller PH2.5 particles and microscopic nano particles are not measured. (Note, the web pages no longer function.) Even if the number of cars on the road diminish, pollution will increase as a greater percentage of diesel fuelled vehicles are being purchased, whilst the pollution from modern diesel cars is four times greater than those purchased 10 years ago.
We have many unanswered questions such as:
Why is Nestrans supporting the inclusion of a 3rd Don Crossing in the ‘Development Plan’, a measure to encourage car commuting into the city centre, whilst their status policy for pollution reduction is to reduce the number of car journeys?
An Aberdeen Voice investigation into this issue would be most welcome.
Regards
Frank Paterson
Vice Chair
Thinking about the naked rambler, I believe for the sake of children (who would not understand), the rambler should have worn clothes. But I also feel there is a difference in being naked to be natural (such as wanting to be closer to nature or the natural environment) and being naked to be sexual.
When I walk about the house without clothes on my cat doesn’t recoil in horror and when I see a naked person nothing unsavoury enters my mind, I believe humans are conditioned by society. An individual can and does commit exactly the same kind of crimes whether they have clothes on or not, ancient civilisations who didn’t wear clothes, would not of shared the same ideas that we do of life.
Hi Sean – good points. I agree – be naked at home, or at a nudist colony – totally fine. But when you’re desire to be naked is going to be in public and cause problems for people who’d rather not be exposed to you (or sit on seats you’ve just been sitting on!), then it’s a different story
I think Bob Collier can safely be thought of as a bit of an imbecile. It would be interesting to know where Mr Collier comes from, as he and his like are the first to accuse others of being “incomers”, and enjoy using (possibly racist) terms such as “white/English settlers”. When attacking others who do not share their views of a development in Aberdeen or the shire.
Hey There Aberdeenvoice,
This might be off topic, however, I have to give a speech for a class where i have to persuade the audience to vote for a bill which requires all power providers in the US to have at least certain percentage of its power source from renewable sources. I should understand how much they employ today, thus which i have an idea of how much the necessary % will be fair. If you understand any representative who has proposed a synonymous bill, please allow me recognize.
Cheers
Hi – thanks for your comment. Certainly an important as well as a wide open question – here are some resources which may be of interest; if you already know of them sorry –
http://www.renewableenergyjobs.com/scotland
http://www.absenergyresearch.com/energy-market-research-reports/renewable-energy-market-research-reports
http://www.iea.org/newsroomandevents/pressreleases/2012/july/name,28200,en.html
good luck!
A good article with excellent information and advice on who to contact etc. I would really like to see the day where the courts etc take this issue seriously and give the sentences deserved for such barbaric acts of violence against animals.
Perhaps Old Susannah would allow me a plug for my own blog on the back of her latest comment about the annoyingly loud Trump-et? I ask the question ‘Can an intelligent man be an idiot? The case of Donald Trump.’ M’learned friends have advised me not to answer the question myself but your avid readers can come to their own conclusion at http://helpgov.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/can-an-intelligent-man-be-an-idiot-the-case-of-donald-trump/. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
I can already see Mr Trump choking on his caviar at the thought of this going out on BBC2.
Sorry but I doubt Mr Trump has heard of BBC Two. Of course he’s proven in this film (and countless others) that he is such a two-faced liar, so he might well say he has heard of it.
Great film, @antbaxter!
Story updates: It has emerged that Japan has apparently used $30 million of donations from around the world intended for Tsunami victims… on public relations to discredit Sea Shepherd and other anti-whaling groups. In Taji cove – this update from Cetacean research: “Taiji update: Just heard from Melissa, police are at the hotel, it is being searched, all phones, cameras, and computers are being seized. We will update when we have more details. ~Scott West, Cove Guardian Campaign Coordinator”
People in Pakistan are observing a day of prayer for teenage campaigner Malala Yousafzai who remains in a coma, having been shot in the head by the Taliban for speaking up for womens’ rights.
I greatly admire Anthony and Richard, they are both very intelligent and brave men. I had hoped “You’ve been Trumped”, would get shown on national television, it will go someway in addressing the injustice caused by Mr Trump and his supporters in Aberdeenshire Council.
Typical BBC putting it on at 10pm. It should be on at least an hour earlier, preferably 8pm.
Better 10pm than not at all. We should consider ourselves fortunate to have seen this at all, thanks BBC2. I see it has won awards for the journalism, and I consider it to be a great piece of film-making, with the documentary cleverly interspersed with the natural beauty that has sadly been blighted.
A good atricle. Very interesting. It is a pity it cannot be saved in working order. Get the P&J to run an article and drum up some support. Do you know what the new owners plan to do with the building and the organ?
Cinema organs are very easy to rescue – because the keys and the pipes are connected electrically, unlike church organs there isn’t any visible decorative case, and there are far fewer pipes than in a typical church pipe organ. All it needs is somewhere in a hall to reinstall it perhaps the size of a one bedroom flat, and it will hide out of the way, ready to make the hairs on the back of your neck tingle again. Good luck Charlie.
Really looking forward to this! I hope it gets plenty more media coverage too.
The BBC at it’s best, exposing (albeit belatedly) the Trump greed and bullying tactics. For around £3 a week, the licence fee is well deserved by them for this kind of output. Trump on Panorama having one of his rants next perhaps? What about an interview with “Paxo”?
I saw this at a cinema I would urge everyone to watch this.
The film highlights the power of money and it is only too obvious from watching the film that backhanders were received from some high level ‘organisations.’
Donald Trump is a bully who is used to getting his own way by throwing money around and if that fails he gets his Trump Organisation puppets to throw their weight around and make people’s lives hell.
It was bad enough that the Scottish Govt overturned the council’s decision and allowed this SSSI to be destroyed but seeing how some of the residents were treated disgusted and saddened me.
The PBS interview is excellent, but Anthony wasn’t able to answer one question which was why Trump was given an honorary doctorate by Robert Gordon University in 2010. The reason is that Sir Ian Wood is Chancellor of the university. With Sir Ian being the main funder of another controversial project, the Union Terrace Gardens, it would make perfect sense for him to organise the honouring of a similarly controversial figure to make his own activities appear mainstream.
isn’t it strange how the BBC-hating daily mail hasn’t go around to reporting this? err…I think I just answered my own question.
risky, diligently-researched, factual journalism – a million miles away from our fearless brit. press.
Yes they did. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2219599/Donald-Trump-Suffering-residents-near-Aberdeenshire-golf-resort-documentary.html
Who better than 16 and 17 year olds to vote on this major issue. At the end of the day, it is their generation who will be most affected should independence win the day.
Ain’t it sickening how those damned capitalists go around creating jobs for people? We don’t need your stinking jobs! We’re happy wallowing in our muck and looking at the empty landscape while the government sustains our unemployed lifestyle.
Great point capitalist. Those 6,000 jobs are a god-send to the people of Aberdeen.
In the past I have written letters to Alex Salmond and both he and his staff have ignored them all, I think the SNP only answer questions they want to be asked. But it must be nice for them living so comfortably on my taxes while having such disregard for me as a Scottish citizen. I at least know how I will be voting at the referendum.
When Britain was an Empire she ruthlessly invaded, colonised, murdered and plundered the wealth of many other countries. The government should have moral obligation to help those from other lands settle in the UK.
Some weeks ago while surfing the net I ended up reading about, “letters of last resort”. I had never heard of these nuclear plans, it was very interesting and I realised just how real the possibility of a nuclear war could be.
With both a Friends of Union Terrace Gardens and a Common Good Aberdeen, who should I vote for? Or should the two become one? Either way, great work by both of you on what will hopefully be a sensitive and sensible raising of the gardens (aye, raising it’s profile, of course).
Dear Rico
You don’t have to ‘vote’ for either. Glad you approve of CGA’s raising the profile. CGA were the organisation which held last year’s Christmas event and the Jubilee tea party; they wish to go ahead with the volunteer-run cafe and look set to go ahead with the play area / swing initiative. They have a good number of plans in an advance stage of costing/development as far as I can tell, and have been liaising with the council and councillors for quite some time now.
The referendum isn’t for Salmond, it’s for an Independent Scotland. I think we stand a far better chance of ousting a man in Edinburgh under a PR system then we ever do of getting change in LabCon London. Don’t equate independence with Salmond, the two are entirely different. An independent Scotland without Salmond would be quite some achievement.
The government has a moral obligation to help the tax paying indigenous population before helping others, we as a Country are massively in debt. If the article writer can find a country with a more progressive approach to immigration then I wish them good luck, I think they’ll find the UK is way ahead of the majority when it comes to immigration.
Aberdeen in particular has seen a huge influx of immigrants these last few years, this is of course to be welcomed and it has been positive for the city but it has put huge strains on social housing, getting a council house is nigh on impossible for the young in Aberdeen these days, immigration should always be encouraged but steps such as this income requirement are important if we’re to deal with migration in a controlled manner, if they have low or no income where do we house them?
good news – the missing dog has been handed in at a police station. How it escaped / was it taken / where it was hopefully answered – just very happy for the owners.
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/aberdeenshire sign the petition
#Capitalist and Richard Simpson.
What 6000 jobs? Evidence please? Sorry guys seems you’ve been reading the Trump loving local press too much.
First of all I’m a golfer. I love the game and I have travelled both home and abroad to play numerous courses. This year, the society I belong to, spent a great week in and around Dundee playing some great courses and receiving superb hospitality. Well done to all concerned, who made our trip such an enjoyable one. A credit to Scotland.
Last night I watched the movie, you’ve been trumped. Oh dear, oh dear. Mr Salmond should be ashamed if himself. After the locally voted representatives have said no to this golf course, the greedy politicians ride rough shod over everyone, so they can get Mr Trump his golf course. The treatment of the local residents was simply appalling. As an ex police officer, I am also ashamed of the local constabulary. The blatant one sided arrest of a man trying to do his job in a polite and respectful manner, simply made me cringe.
I am not a tree hugger, I’m probably right of centre in political terms. But I will always stand up for fairness and respect for all law abiding people. In this instance, those poor local folk have my deepest sympathy. I for one, will never play the course, even if I could afford the monstrous green fees. How ridiculous to price local people at £150 for a round of golf!!! What planet is Mr Trump on??
Everyone in Scotland should rise up and support the local people affected by this golf course, if only because of the inhumane treatment of them and their rights in a democratic society.
As a foot note, this is my first ever comment on an issue like this. The film has incensed so much.
Got to hand it to you. All you say may be true but, The SNP is the ONLY party offering us the chance of independence, not a snowball’s chance in hell of any other party doing so. But then I suppose, the prospect of being ruled ad infinitum by Tory, London based, governments is a far better option for we Scots . Always remember, the bulk of the UK population is located south of the border, down Watford way and what they vote goes. Scotland was once a nation state and there is no fiscal or logical reason why it could not be so again. The SNP may not be perfect but they are our ticket to a better future, free from illegal wars, nuclear weapons, The Tories etc etc etc.
Granted the long awaited AWPR will help traffic by-pass Aberdeen City Centre. Will it make much difference to city centre bound commuters? Not a lot methinks. We have new build housing on the cards for Cove/Charleston, Elsick and Muggiemoss. No mention of new railway stations on the nearby rail line at each location though. Now what about the long awaited (and much studied and talked about) Abedeen Crossrail which seems to be moving forward at a snail’s pace. One new station in a decade, and another on the drawing board. We could, apparently, find £140m/£240m/£340m for Teletubbieland, but there appears to be a significant difficulty of finding a lesser amount that would revolutionise commutes. Perverse.
Sarah Malone’s quip about being, “highly biased and manipulative,” describes her boss perfectly don’t you think? As for Grampian Police: They should hang their heads in shame in regard to their one-sided policing.
Well said.
I don’t believe the Trump Organisation has taken any legal advice, in court they would just get laughed at – like they did in the Scottish Parliament. Though on a serious note, they would expose themselves to cross questioning and dozens apon dozens of facts and information that would be greatly damaging to them.
How about a public enquiry into the lack of objectivity by our local pess in all this? Not through the Press Complaints Commission -they are completely toothless -but by a serious body of people who have no connection to the press.
Well done to the Aberdeen Voice for the article above. It is clear and pulls no punches.
Grampian Police and local and national government have behaved as per the script set for them. Business interests trump those of local people. This has to stop in Scotland. For Alex Salmond to allow his constituents to be treated with such contempt is shocking. I feel so let down by him. He has lost my vote and the vote of everyone I know. Before, I respected his integrity and have voted for him for years. Watching Anthony Baxter’s brilliant ‘You’ve Been Trumped’ made me sad that our First Minister has lost touch with the Scottish people. The Scottish Parliament has also let us down by calling the planning permission in and passing it. Now they have to put it right and quickly.
Let’s have a full investigation into Grampian Police, The Local Authority Planning and Clerk of Work’s failures and Parliament’s role. This isn’t going to go away. I want answers. All decent Scots should too.
Congratulations Old Susannah on reaching a hundred!!
A perfect piece David, you say it all!
Michael
“Practical conservation work began in June 1989, when Alan took a team of volunteers to place tree guards around Scots pine seedlings in Glen Cannich, to protect them from being eaten by deer.” It’s very sad that Councillor Aileen Malone and the city council could not have done the same on Tullos Hill before killing families of deer.
While Michael was often described as Scotland’s answer to Randy Newman, I was always of the opinion that Randy Newman was America’s answer to Michael Marra.
He’ll be sadly missed.
Change the record; wood, trump, ,milne, repeat……………
What have you ever done to bring employment to the area? why attack the people that do?
That’s the problem with socialists, they point out problems and are snide to people they see as being rich but they never come up with any solutions.
And if Japanese people want to eat whales who are we to stop them, we eat plenty of fish and meat!
Ah George Smith… Old Halliburton Man himself. I remember you said to me in one conversation that you LOVE Donald Trump. That just about says it all, really…
George – ‘A healthy male adult bore consumes each year one and a half times his own weight on other people’s patience.’ ……..Updike.
I don’t understand George… you complain about the content of these articles, yet you still read them (pretty much as soon as they are published, as far as i can make out) and respond just to argue for arguments sake. It seems to me that you are in fact the one with the vendetta.
Also, comparing the butchering and decimation of the whale population to the captive farming of livestock is ludicrous… whales are an extremely intelligent species of mammal whose numbers are in rapid decline as a result of the massacres that take place. To disregard the value of the existence of these creatures and to excuse the likely extermination of their species shows ignorance and a distinct lack of compassion
I’m sorry but what was started as a paper for the people of Aberdeen has turned into a left wing propaganda rag, every week is full of attacks on the same people. Aberdeen has a lot going for it so why not concentrate on that instead of the constant campaigning against the same people/projects.
I mean hating Mr Wood for his support of the cgp is fair enough but to then keep picking at him by questioning his charity work is just being too personal and borders on stalking. The same goes for Mr Trump, you don’t like him, we get it! plenty of people in Aberdeen do though and many welcome his investment. The objectivity on here has been lost due to the blind hatred of these people.
And bringing my place of work into a debate isn’t very nice, all I’m doing is airing my opinion.
If you have a look at the FAQ page (see top right) you will see that anyone can submit an article which will be published if it is of sufficient quality and credibility, is relevant and/or of general interest to people in Aberdeen and the Northeast of Scotland and is not distasteful, offensive, or libellous.
There is, therefore, nothing to stop you submitting an article which represents your views as long as it meets these criteria.
George, Just a few words from one Smith to another. Aberdeen Voice gives a voice as did Anthony Baxters film to those who are largely ignored by our local press Having worked at one time in the newspaper industry for 23 years, our illustrious local press have always been on the side of big business as that is where their advertising revenue comes from, however that does not necessarily make them right wing.
Similarily if the AV puts the rich under intense scrutiny it does not mean they are necessarily left wing.
It’s all a matter of how you view the world. As long as the media reflects the truth then thats fine by me.
H Harper,
I have no desire to write an article, I’m no journalist! I do however care about Aberdeen and its people and I can see no reason why some of the resident writers here have to deride some of the wealthier business leaders we have amongst us. A quick google got me the links below, it quickly becomes apparent that the Wood family trust are doing a huge amount of charity work at home as well as Africa, instead of being snide about Mr Woods efforts why not applaud him for being generous, he could quite easily sit on his wealth and do nothing. The tea efforts in Africa are surely a better way of providing long term help to the Country instead of simply giving them money or aid, it looks a great idea! i simply don’t see what good it does attacking the man because he had a different vision for the city centre than the article writer.
http://www.woodfamilytrust.org/current-programmes/Imbarutso.php
http://www.woodfamilytrust.org/current-programmes/SportScotland.php
http://www.woodfamilytrust.org/current-programmes/WoodFamilyTrustCurrentProgrammesGlobalTeachersFund.php
http://www.woodfamilytrust.org/current-programmes/VSO.php
http://www.woodfamilytrust.org/current-programmes/EnterpriseEducation.php
http://www.woodfamilytrust.org/current-programmes/YPI.php
http://www.woodfamilytrust.org/current-programmes/Chai.php
Clearly you have your own opinions George (just as I have mine).
I would, however, point you in the direction of another article in this week’s issue https://aberdeenvoice.com/2012/10/vsa-announces-diamond-ball-and-silent-auction/ in which the charity work of Sir Ian Wood’s son Garreth is acknowledged and applauded.
May I just add that I don’t mind in the slightest any of my council tax money going to the linked project, it sounds a great initiative, infact it’s projects like these I’d be interested in reading about, our young people being encouraged to open up and run a business through a school project sounds great, I wish my daughters school was involved. The long term benefits of this training to the entire area also shouldn’t be ignored as these kids take the experience into the real World, well done our council and the Wood family trust for providing funding.
http://www.woodfamilytrust.org/current-programmes/EnterpriseEducation.php
George min, Voice was originally set up in early summer 2010 due to the frustration many people felt at the lack of objectivity in the local press over proposed developments such as (and especially) UTG.
As someone who’s been in since the start, albeit deliberately in mostly a backroom capacity, the ethos has always been to give a platform to members of the public who have something to articulate. If you don’t want to take up that offer, that’s your choice, but we HAVE given space to contributions which take the same view as you express in your feedback to us.
We operate on a wholly voluntary basis. It takes up time that few of us have to spare. We don’t have the backing of a large organisation, we don’t take ads and are not in the pockets of any commercial or political body or individual.
Given that your views seem adequately and widely expressed by the local print media, I think you’re doing OK publicity-wise for the views you express withput haranguing Aberdeen Voice.
As someone else said, feel free to submit something for publication, otherwise you’re missing the point (some might think delibetayely) of what Voice was established to do.
George, no one denies that Sir Ian’s trust does good work, in many nations, including our own. What is being complained about is the fact that he and much more prominently, Trump, are trying to bulldoze through projects which have modest support, by nothing short of bully boy tactics. The assertions for both the City Garden and Menie projects were, to say the least,.somewhat over-stated. No one likes a bully. That is the hub of the matter.
My respect goes out to all those who continue to fight for truth and justice , the more materialistic our society becomes , the more vigilance will be required to expose unscrupulous businessmen , at home and from abroad.
I too am living with the result of a local planning decision being overturned by Edinburgh.
‘However, it is undeniable that the Scottish Government took the unprecedented step of intervening in Trump’s planning application, rubber-stamping it over the local government’s will.’
Flats were built higher than alleged and at minimum distance from the rear of my cottage in Old Aberdeen in an area that was described by our local planning department as already being congested. Their refusal to grant planning permission was overturned mysteriously by some bureaucrat from Edinburgh. Our home now suffers from considerably less heat and light than it did , before construction.
Writing from Gloucestershire .. we were appalled by what we learned from this brave documentary .. and astonished that we have not heard of any investigative campaign to determine a whole series of extraordinary things that the documentary seemed to turn up, eg:
• how appropriate was it for the Scottish government to call in the planning application and grant consent of that sort on an SSSI?
• having granted planning consent for such a sensitive development in such a sensitive area, why were the planners not keeping a very close watch to ensure that the work was carried out in accordance with the planning consent? Whose interests should the planners be protecting?
• Why were the police allowed to appear without question as if they were representing the interests of Mr Trump and acting as his private security force?
• Why was Mr Trump apparently unchallenged over his apparent land grab when he was taking from residents land they believed belonged to them? Even if not on their title deeds, they presumably had obtained title by means of ‘adverse posession’ (always assuming that Scottish land law has such a concept similar to English law)?
– why was not more fuss made in the media … did we simply miss it?
Full praise and credit to Aberdeen Voice for its outspoken criticism of the events surrounding the disgusting events and actions associated with the Trump Golf course at Menie Estate.
Tump claims regarding the benefits to Aberdeenshire and to Scotland have always been grossly exaggerated and should have been virtually ignored until scrutinised by independant economists.
Even the ‘simplest’ of politicians should have seen the whole Trump promise for what it was – ‘bull s**t’ delivered with smoke and mirrors!
The treatment by all those involved on the Trump ‘bandwagon’ of the residents of Menie should be a warning to all about the problems of greed overiding peoples basic rights – I would have thought the action of the bankers over recent years should have been enough to sound warning bells in everyones heads.
All praise to those who have fought against this ‘tirany’ by the wealthy against those who cannot afford to defend themselves.
This whole affair may very well come back to those who thought with their pockets and not their conscience!
Honour, decency and moral actions have taken a serious blow in this matter – hopefully not beyond repair
Ron,
That’s not what the article above is saying, it’s looking for another avenue to attack Mr Wood, the author can’t wait for the trust to file accounts so she can pour over them looking for holes. As I said fair enough to oppose the CGP even though it got a majority in the referendum but please don’t use that as an excuse to hound a man who has done so much for the City and with his charity work. I’m proud we have a charity based in Aberdeen that’s attempting to help those less fortunate than us in Africa and at home.
Fair enough George, but please don’t go on about the much vaunted “referendum.” That was so heavily biased that it reflected something one would expect in a banana republic. The desired outcome was achieved by blatant lies, half truths and extremely misleading artists impressions. You seem to forget that previous consultations threw out the project and the one purporting to give the public a choice of plans was a farce, in that the public choice was disregarded and the results hidden for a considerable time. All in all, the proponents of The City Garden should hang their heads in shame at such a deliberate ploy to mislead the citizens, yourself included.
Ron,
Shame on you for doubting the intelligence and ability of your fellow citizens to decide what they wanted and to weigh up both sides of the debate, strange why these accusations of bias only flew when your side lost the referendum. That debate has been done to death so lets not go over it again.
George: I’m talking facts. Are you trying to tell me, or anyone else, that the representations of both sides in the referendum were equal (normally a requirement)?
Anyone who met Michael, no matter how briefly, would leave a better person for the experience.
His influence on those around him is, and will remain, immeasurable.
Throughout his illness his sense of humour and concern for others remained strong.
Michael will stay forever in the minds of many. I doubt we’ll ever know the likes of him again.
Kip on Michael – sleep well.
I’m inclined to agree with all said above. While the AWPR will act as a by-pass to the city, it will do little to relieve city centre conjestion brought about by the daily commute. Aberdeen Crossrail has been spoken about for over 30 years, the end result being one additional station. Similarly, widening or the provision of a second bridge at The Bridge of Dee has been spoken of for decades. The end result? Nothing! The world famous Haudigan round-a-bout should have been upgraded many years ago. When this work finally commences, mayhem will ensue, AWPR or no AWPR.
Public transport has a great part to play in resolving our congestion issues. The privatisation of same has made this much more difficult however with escalating fares and service reductions/withdrawals. Aberdeen is the only major city that does not have a supported park and ride system for example. Again, because of fare rises, the limited park and ride that we do have is poorly patronised. Private operators have to make a profit to satisfy their shareholders and investors and are unlikely to improve services unless some form of subsidy is forthcoming.
This is exactly what we have been saying for years, not only that Governments for decades do not seem to comprehend that our unspoiled countryside is a precious resource that once gone is lost for ever, and with concerns over food security we should not be covering our farmland with roads and such like.
There was a large article about Karine Polwart in the Aberdeen Evening Express (pro Trump local paper) on 3 November within the Weekend Supplement. She provides the music at the end of the film, but the main thing is there was an image of the You’ve Been Trumped poster for the film, probably the first time in the newspaper!!!
Re-open the train line to Peterhead instead, and the Banchory line. Get Kintore station, and another couple between Dyce and the toon opened. Stop building houses in f’n BoD, without creating significantly more jobs in the area. 20 years ago, the AWPR would have been acceptable – it isn’t now.
You missed a few points:
1. The AWPR has been designed in such a fashion that it opens up swathes of land for new housing developments, which will be built with no transport links or amenities of note. The people who live there will be forced to use the AWPR, or other routes, significantly increasing the traffic.
2. People who previously ruled out working in Dyce/BoD and living in the South (and vice versa) will now consider this acceptable, adding more traffic to the road.
3. We’ll do it wrong. Roundabouts will be used where slip roads should be etc etc. to cut corners. It’ll just move the congestion to a different corner.
Excellent points.
FOR NOW, the AWPR is great for bypassing Aberdeen, but in the long run only serves to cause further ugly & pointless dormitory developments that don’t help Aberdeen, and certainly won’t bring back the steadily withering-away prosperity & jobs.
Best case scenario is the bypass is great for the relative few folk up north to avoid Aberdeen altogether. Aberdeen traffic still bad, Aberdeen’s prosperity still declining.
Worst case scenario, despite lack of demand, tons of new developments spring up along the bypass route. The bypass just becomes another point of traffic congestion, commuters into Aberdeen find it even harder, people can’t find jobs or amenities because nobody bothered to make sensible plans to improve Aberdeen’s lot.
A second Dee crossing near the Bridge of Dee is sensible. Fixing the Haudigan is sensible. Improving public transport for Aberdeen is sensible. Making honest efforts to reinvigorate the city centre is sensible. Fixing the major issue which is traffic INTO AND OUT OF Aberdeen is sensible.
It had decades of oil prosperity and if the council had bothered, could have bent some of that money being made off of Aberdeen’s back to it;s own benefit. Instead all it got was decades of lazy dormitory estates & lazy commercial & industrial estates that were always intended to be abandoned once the oil ran dry.
But hey, for now, it knocks off a few minutes getting from north of Aberdeen round to south of it, so there’s that. Really late & well over budget, but a time saving for some folk all the same.
I have to agree with Suzanne Kelly. The lack of transparency in various local projects leaves much to be desired.
Most glaring, in recent times, was the failure of the business community and politicians to disclosed the potential personal gains that would have been made from the “redevelopment” of Union Terrace Gardens. The Tullos Hill project was also shrouded in mystery in that regard as has been said above.
I have lived in a council house for several years and suffered very nasty discrimination and dishonesty from council staff, this has included intimidation and aggressive behavior. I think Aberdeen City Council must be the most corrupt local authority there is.
I’m always mystified by the careless ease with which people apply the word “corrupt” to entities or situations they don’t much like, in particular the city council. Intimidation and aggressive behaviour from any council is inexcusable but hardly corrupt. I’m not saying our council is squeaky clean – far from it, the article throws up some very shady dealings, indeed – but really they are more about bad (read bloody awful) practice and lack of transparency than corruption in the real sense. I wouldn’t think the council here is any more or less corrupt then the norm, however regrettable that might be…
Of course talented people will leave Aberdeen to head for Glasgow and London, it’s because Aberdeen is fast becoming a run down backwater of a place that has no chance of attracting tourists, any plan to change this has been halted by the same old anti progress people.
We need investment and we need creative projects to turn the tide, putting a few swings in UTG is not going to do this. It now seems the City of Culture bid is the next project in the cross hairs of the anti people, I just wish they could step back for a minute and see the long term damage they’re doing by opposing everything, the city isn’t going to magically transform without change.
btw Enjoy your masked ball, a great cause, such a pity at £110 per head the majority like me were priced out, events on common good land no matter how good the cause should perhaps be priced within the range of the ordinary working man in the future.
The City of Culture Bid? Ah yes, that’ll will be a devise for adding to our city’s massive debt I suppose. As Old Susannah points out, a fat lot of good it did Liverpool, having to make cut after cut caused by the funding of this, apparent celebrity status.
Comparing Aberdeen and Dundee is farcical. The harbour area along to the railway station was, in the main, derelict, excepting the concrete monstrosities dotted about. Union Terrace Gardens, on the other hand is a green city centre space bounded by magnificent granite buildings. Do we really want to turn it in to a concrete monstrosity? What will that prove? Would it be an act of “culture”? I think not.
Ron,
You don’t solve a debt problem by stopping investment, infact that’s the last thing to do. As always Susannah focuses on the negatives, the likes of Glasgow benefited hugely when they won the city of culture bid yet some council cuts in Liverpool are the focus of the article.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2375339.stm
Speculate to accumulate, Aberdeen has suffered by standing still while the other main Cities in Scotland are all spending, who would have ever foreseen Dundee overtaking Aberdeen as a place for tourism, they didn’t do that by being afraid of progress.
And a quick google regarding Liverpool suggests the City of Culture win was a huge success.
Visiting Liverpool ECoC
– The Liverpool ECoC attracted 9.7 million
additional visits to Liverpool, constituting
35% of all visits to the city in 2008.
– These visits generated an economic impact
of £753.8 million (additional direct visitor
spend) across Liverpool, Merseyside and the
wider North West region.
– 2.6 million European and global visits were
motivated by the Liverpool ECoC in 2008.
97% of these were first-time visits to the city.
– The ECoC generated an additional
1.14 million staying visitor nights in
Liverpool hotels, 1.29 million in the rest
of Merseyside and 1.7 million in the rest of
the North West.
http://www.liv.ac.uk/impacts08/Papers/Creating_an_Impact_-_web.pdf
I take it your figures are for the year Liverpool held this dubious title? Subsequent years?? Derry doesn’t seem to have improved things much after it’s venture in to the cultural field.
And as for Aberdeen standing still: I seem to recollect it is the easiest place in the UK to find work in these recessionary times. But then we are the oil capitol of Europe, apparently. I’d say we’re doing just fine without culture and dubious Teletubbie Theme Parks.
One last point George: Glasgow benefitted no end. It still has the highest unemployment in Scotland. It still has major drug problems. It’s still the crime capital of Scotland. Guess the cultural revolution didn’t impact on these groups. I wonder why?
Ron,
No one is saying it is the cure to all ills, same goes for the CGP, but it would be a start. Aberdeen may be the oil capital but the years of prosperity have done little towards improving Aberdeen as a City. Stop the negativity, it’s time to promote and improve the City, the years of standing still have put us into decline.
We need to promote industry outwith the oil sector, it won’t be with us forever, tourism is one area where we should be bending backwards to help, it provides much need money and employment especially in the lower end unskilled market. We even saw protests against someone trying to turn some scrubland into a World class golf course, that just wouldn’t happen elsewhere in Scotland, it’s like any attempt at progress is met with a brick wall, those protesters never give one hoot for the hotels and businesses that would prosper from the course they were only interested in who was behind it, it didn’t fit with their socialist agenda.
Same goes for the bypass, for 20 plus years self interested groups have campaigned against something the vast majority want.
Campaign all you like but just remember it’s real people you are hurting, for every thing that is shouted down it’s costing people real jobs and hope for their families, not everyone in Aberdeen is in a well paying oil job.
Ah how simple things are.
“Some scrubland” I assume you mean the unique dune system forming part of a site of special scientific interest. I’m sure tourists would have liked to see that.
I was just thinking that George Wilson. Seems your namesake is somewhat misinformed, if artfully and culturally inclined (does whacking wee ba’s aboot count as culture?) We all want Aberdeen to prosper. As you say, the oil won’t last for ever, just forty or fifty years by most recent reckoning. We then have the carbon capture technology to replace it coming and the various associated technologies, if Westminster can get their act together that is. The bypass has been talked about for decades, as has Aberdeen Crossrail. Politicians, not objectors, caused the major delays in implementation. All in all, a major improvement to the road infrastructure and full utilisation of our rail network would bring more benefits to the city than any Teletubbie lookalike could, don’t you agree?
Don’t think there was any lasting benefit to the ordinary citizens of the towns who became
Cities of Culture. The usual suspects in big business would have no doubt benefited in their involvement. It is only ” big business” which benefits in any sort of grandiose schemes in cities, yet it is left to the
so called “plebs” who pick up the tab when things go arse over tit.
Brilliant!
Why’s everyone so desperate for a conspiracy – what’s wrong with the Scottish government’s explanation???
“Ministers nonetheless wished to invite Aberdeen City Council to submit a full TIF business case, provided that public support for the Union Terrace Gardens project could be demonstrated. Aberdeen’s project was chosen to ensure good geographical spread of TIF pilots. It was also selected because of the potential of the scheme to lever in £55 million of private funding immediately, representing 40% of the estimated total cost of the City Garden Project (£140 million). The potential to lever in such levels of guaranteed private funding for the creation of the assets made this project unique amongst those for which bids had been received.” http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Government/Finance/18232/FOI
Wonder if we can catch these fish, and because of quotas, throw them back dead, it’s a dream….
What a load of cobblers, I bet you think America blew up the twin towers. I voted for UTG redevelopment, but no way would I vote for independence and no way would this have encouraged me to do so.
Catherine
A geographical spread was not one of the criteria for evaluating TIF business cases. They were to be judged on economic robustness and for a good reason too. If the business case was poor then the municipal council taking the risk of borrowing would be left in debt.
The public were not informed that the Aberdeen business case was dubious. They should have been.
This is definitely being used for point scoring by snp opponents. Many a complaint we have heard about the unfair share of Scottish funding Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire receive from the Scottish government but when the government do something to ensure funding for this area where otherwise there would have been none the same politicians complain. Do they want funding or just to score points.
Mike,
Give it a rest, the people of Aberdeen voted for the CGP to go ahead, your conspiracy theory stories won’t alter that fact, we wanted it!
How on earth you can link that with a SNP referendum vote is beyond me.
btw If you thought the CGP vote was not fair why did you attend the count?
George, you do not speak for everyone, so kindly refrain from applying the royal “we” to your exclamations. Thousands did not want it, but unfortunately CGP supporters without fail experience extreme difficulty when it comes to accepting evidence that does not support their point of view. “Blinkered” is the word I’m looking for…
George, the Scottish Futures Trust decided the Aberdeen TIF was substandard and that the economic benefits scored 4/10. They are part of the Scottish Government and the assessment was made well before the CGP referendum.
This was information that should have been put in the public domain before the referendum. The people of Aberdeen were not provided with all the information that they should have to inform their vote.
We now know that the City Garden Project does not make any business sense. This validates the August 22 council decision to reject the TIF business case.
Ben, I am not anti SNP or indeed a member of any political party. I can tell you that I once voted for the SNP although not any more.
I have written the article in good faith. It is a matter of public record that the TIF ranking was interfered with, that ‘geographic spread’ was not a criterion for assessing TIF applications and that for whatever reason the SFT were most reluctant to reveal the ranking.
The judgement that the Aberdeen TIF was substandard was kept out of the public eye. This is poor government. There is a lack of transparency and accountability over what happened.
My opinion that Alex Salmond is trying to keep SIW sweet is speculative but consistent with the facts, and to my mind utterly believable.
When will folk get it into their heads that the question of Independence is not about the SNP, is not about Alex Salmond, and it’s certainly not about a bit of green space in the centre of Aberdeen.
Yes, Independence has always been an SNP policy, of course, but the issue has moved on from that now. We are getting the referendum. It’s about the future of the nation for centuries to come. Now is the time we should all move on from the petty personal attacks on individuals, and move on to concentrate on the important issue of an entire nation’s future.
I was at the first Yes Scotland Aberdeenshire meeting last weekend. Chair of the meeting was an Englishman. A Frenchman and an Italian spoke from the audience. There were members from the Labour Party who also spoke. All of whom were of the opinion Scotland would do better as an Independent nation.
As emotive a subject UTG’S has been to the minority of Aberdeen residents, it has nothing to do with the future of our nation. It’s minuscule by comparison.
With your MSM tendencies, you should get a job with the BBC mate.
Tut tut Susannah. Having a go at the most popular government in the UK. Compared to the one down the road, south of Watford, the Holyrood bunch actually have public support, don’t you know>
I have to agree with Mike Shepherd. Not only did the figures not add up, according to a leading economist, was the £140m price tag realistic in the first place?
Yes, the much vaunted referendum did produce a result in favour of redevelopment, but only after a blizzard of misleading, indeed dubious, figures were bandied about by proponents, not to mention the dodgy “artists impressions.” Rules for referenada are clear. Each side should have equal funding to put their point across. The was sidestepped by proponents, effectively annulling the referendum in any other circumstance.
We should also remember that the public’s views were disregarded in every other “consultation” when the desired result was not achieved. The Granite Web design was rejected, outright, by the public, was it not George?
All in all, the whole saga was an affront to democracy.
Agree Ron,
Probably the most shocking episode of the referendum was the bogus £20 million Art Gallery grant that the TIF funding was supposed to unlock. It was pure fiction. It never existed, Yet as far as the CGP propaganda was concerned, it was a reality and was sold to the public as such.
There was such a serious short fall in cash, £15 million from the private sector and the £20 million bogus grant that never existed, the economics of the project was a total basket case. And it still is.
Mike, we won. Many of us who campaigned against UTG are independence supporters. Many of us voted labour at the council elections not because of a new found love of the union, but because we knew they would put a stop to UTG.
We realised it would mean no Don bridge and the pedestrianisation of Union St would be back on the agenda. The same Labour guff that got them booted out of the toon hoose before.
Now if you want to support the union, do so – that is your right. UTG is not a reason to vote for or against independence. Please stop trying to make it one.
Mike,
I hope you enjoy this Labour term in office in Aberdeen as it will be its last for many a year, the huge number of people who voted for the CGP will not forget the overturning of their democratic vote. I’ve never voted in council elections, to me they’re all self serving failed businessmen playing at big boys politics, you can be sure I’ll be at the next election to get this lot out, I know for sure I won’t be the only one.
The CGP will happen, too many people are for it for it not to go ahead, you’ll get another chance to bang that desk and cry foul play when you lose.
George:
It is generally accepted that the referendum was totally imbalanced and the public were dramatically misled. Please don’t try to convince anyone otherwise because you will make yourself a laughing stock.
In regard to independence: I firmly believe that it would benefit Scots and consequently voted SNP since Margaret Thatcher’s era. Prior to that I simply didn’t vote. I voted for Labour in the local government election as they were the only party which represented my views in regard to UTG.
UTG is a matter local to our city and intervention, by either Holyrood or Westminster politicians, is unwarranted. It is certainly not a matter that should pertain to independence, or otherwise, of Scotland as a whole..
Generally accepted….by the losing side! How little faith you have in the Aberdeen people to weigh the pros and cons, shame on you for thinking you know better.
I’ve not changed my mind on which way I’d vote nor have those I know who voted for the CGP. If the likes of Mike Shepherd didn’t believe it was fair then they wouldn’t have went to the count and leered at the prospect of a majority, the sour grapes only began when they lost. If he’d boycotted and called foul before the count then he may have garnered a little respect.
*POST AMENDED. George, I will restore the removed sentence if you can specify which ‘lies’ you are referring to, and if we/you can establish that a specific group or individual is indeed guilty of lying. Also ‘anti progress people’ does not specify or define any group or set of individuals therefore the sentence removed is either meaningless, groundless, defamatory or unjustifiably inflammatory and therefore Aberdeen Voice will not bear responsibility for its publication. – Moderator.
Let’s not forget that a lot of the trees they are/were planning on planting are Ash – their provenance? Who-knows-where. Already infected with Chalara? Possibly, if they were imported to minimise costs.
Strange article and odd that you appear again to be singling out Sir Ian Wood and Stewart Milne for scrutinising, both these people have provided employment for hundreds of people and have paid Millions back to taxpayer through themselves and their companies. A truly pointless exercise imo trying to dig dirt on them, not only a waste of your time but not a pleasant thing to read. Couldn’t you have done a positive article on the great work the Wood family trust is doing in Africa, perhaps research the schemes it has put in place to help families over there.
George,
I hope you’re not suggesting that just because Sir Ian Wood and Stewart Milne provide jobs for people they are somehow above scrutiny. Dictatorships arise when people are not scrutinised. Yes, I agree Sir Ian has done good charitable work in Africa, but then Sir Jimmy Saville was looked upon as someone who did good work for charitable causes. NO!!! I’M NOT FOR ONE MOMENT BRACKETING SIR IAN ALONG WITH SIR JIMMY SAVILLE, only trying to make the point that nobody should be above scrutiny.
Why don’t you submit the article you suggest, George?
Ian Wood promised to give fifty million to Africa and he has now gone back on his word. For Mr Wood to say that he is giving money to charity and then not do so, displays dishonesty.
*Post Moderated. Sean, please refrain from including direct accusations in your comments as these require us to amend or remove in order that we do not become legally responsible/liable on your behalf.
We do value your opinion and your contributions, but not to the extent that we will risk court action and all that entails,
Please do continue to contribute material, preferably that which we can publish in full, compromising neither your sentiment or style, nor our journalistic integrity.
– Moderator
He may yet donate the money he promised. What he has done is delayed the withdrawal of his offer to part-fund the CGP by a year whilst there is an obvious clumsy concerted effort to get this discredited and rigged TIF scheme back on the table. In August 2013 that year will be up.
To the contrary of C.J.Piper”s take on objectors, more people are outraged since the slaughter of the deer, the destruction of the ecosystem and subsequent eviction of the rest of the wildlife. This is NOT going away.I am ashamed that a tree has been planted in my name.
Bob,
The reason they’re getting scrutinised looks to be for their involvement in the CGP, this appears little more than an attempt to gain some revenge by those against the project by finding some dirt on them. Quite petty imo considering all those two men have done for the people of this city and beyond.
Venison is very good with red wine
Are you a member of ACC?
Post removed Sorry Sean, but unless this statement can be evidenced, we cannot publish, and whilst many might sympathise, as it is such a sweeping statement, I doubt if evidencing is possible. Please note, Aberdeen Voice is legally responsible for all content – including readers comments.
Please feel free to post comments which do not require us to contravene laws governing all publications.
– Moderator
I believe I have evidence in my medical files that council staff lied in order to discriminate and behave aggressively towards me. This in particular, includes completely inaccurate information written by council staff. I am prepared to stand up in court and welcome any legal action by the council against me, for telling the truth.
That will be the same Mr Wood who stated he would, “walk away,” if the public voted against his plan for UTG, then did the exact opposite George? The same Mr Milne that, when found by the courts (at great expense to the taxpayer) to be in the wrong, decided to “negotiate” a settlement with ACC? Hardly paragons of virtue..
At the end of the day, I wonder how many citizens wanted a tree planted in their name? But then that’s Aberdeen, which many describe as a backwater, stuck in the past. What the proponents of all those schemes forget is that it is Aberdonians who oppose them – the very people born and brought up in the city and it’s environs – and who have to live here. So who better to object? Who better to listen to? We have become the oil capital of Europe without Granite Webs and silly tree planting schemes and will probably become the cutting edge centre for green energy (if Westminster gets it act together). The prosperity of our city and shire is set to continue for the foreseeable future without all the absurdities being propounded. Never forget, the revenues from the North East drive the Scottish economy and make a very healthy contribution to UK plc.
The students make valid points. Austerity is simply not working. Then we have the benefits scam, headed by ATOS, with the attitude that, if you’re breathing, you can work. Somewhat simplistic. But then, paying a French company millions and others similar amounts to perpetuate scams is definitely going to cure the economy’s ills. The end result will probably be that suicides will soar and the mental services wing of the NHS will be in heavy demand (if you’re lucky enough to be seen by them at all). Just remember students that, there is no possibility of you receiving housing benefit, from April, unless you share a room. Better still, cram as many in to said room as you can and if you can’t find work, apply for a place in the new Work Houses to be set up by The CONservatives in the near future, where you will be served gruel twice a day to meets the government’s human rights requirements.
I don’t want a blood tree planted in my name either.
Ron,
Also the same people where one gives Millions of their personal wealth to the poor in Africa and another who underwrite’s the debt at Pittodrie to keep our football team in business. That’s before you get to the huge employment they provide.
Starting a vendetta against them because they didn’t agree with you on a garden project is a joke.
Nothing to do with The Gardens directly George. It’s about wealthy individuals trying to usurp public assets for their own wealth making ploys. Granted, both have given employment to many in the city and beyond. That does not give them the right to ride roughshod over public opinion, or to try and sway said opinion by foul means.
Ron,
The article in question has nothing to do with the garden, that’s my point, the author is trying to dig dirt on them because they had an opinion she didn’t agree with. I just don’t see the point. Attacking them over their support of the garden is fine but digging into their life’s looking for nuggets to fire at them is not on in my book, that’s Murdock style reporting.
Ron,
You’ll be glad to read I’m giving up on this forum, it seems futile to try and debate issues when the moderation is so one sided, again I’ve had a post chopped because it didn’t fit with the agenda.
George, it has been explained to you at some length, and in some detail why one sentence was removed from a comment you made for LEGAL reasons, not on account of any agenda. I see no point in discussing this any further with you, particularly as the moderators have thus far put more effort into clarifying the issue for you than they were obliged to, both publicly via the comments box and via private email, but I will not allow your view on the moderation to go unchallenged.
If you are incapable of understanding that direct, unsubstantiated accusations are out of bounds in a publication, and that for us to publish these is to accept liability on your behalf, then that is your problem and one that only you can rectify.
If I may take the opportunity to provide figures re. how your comments to date have been dealt with, they look like this.
Total comments contributed : 46
comments published in full and unaltered : 44
comments blocked : 1 (Reason : legal. Explanation provided )
comments published but amended : 1 (Reason : legal. Explanation provided )
These stats are easily checked by anyone George. Please look them over before attempting to persuade anyone other than yourself that your attempts to participate in debate on this site have been made ‘futile’ by ‘one sided moderation’ because the evidence suggests otherwise.
Apologies, my mistake, I thought comment 6 had been chopped as I didn’t see it awaiting moderation when I looked in.
Sorry.
I don’t think anyone wanted a blood tree planted in their name, I certainly didn’t. If they think this will just go away they are very much mistaken.
Prejudicial in parts. Watch yourselves.
George:
In fact, I will be sorry to see you giving up the forum. The moderation is not, in reality, one sided in my view. Aberdeen Voice was set up so that matters ignored by, or reported in a biased manner could be addressed by ordinary Aberdonians. It does that effectively with moderators only stepping in when “legalities” raise their head. I find it refreshing that you have apologised for the unwarranted attack on the moderators. Too few in this world are prepared to admit their mistakes and you and I appear to take the same moral stance on this issue. I always had the greatest respect for Ian Wood until, as previously stated, he went back on his word. That is my reason for losing respect for this, otherwise, pillar of our society.. I do wish you would reconsider remaining in the forum. As you say, debate/discussion is healthy and it is important all sides of issues are represented.
Hilariously only 5,000 lazy individuals bothered to show up in comparison to the 50,000 during the last riot. This Government is doing a good job for students and the drop in numbers shows that!
I usually make it a point not to comment on stories I have in Aberdeen Voice, but occasionally one or two posters go too far down either illogical or legally-questionable routes that I am better off commenting than not. George has written “..that’s my point, the author is trying to dig dirt on them because they had an opinion she didn’t agree with…”.
George, perhaps you mean to say ‘you think the author is trying to dig dirt…’ or ‘you believe the author is trying to dig dirt…’ But your assertions you know what my intent is are (as ever) wrong, and in this instance getting rather close to libel.
For the avoidance of doubt, this piece (and the follow-up out shortly) is a partial exposé on how our tax money is carved up and given to questionable projects, billionaire philanthropists who have their own money, yet want ours, and how unelected quangos are hiding the identities of firms/people whose services we are paying for (eg the chamber of commerce invoices sent via Scottish Enterprise for the City to actually pay regarding the City Garden Project).
George calls the piece ‘strange’ – another tool of the propagandist is to assign negative labels to people and things, hoping they will stick. The way in which a cash-strapped city which is cutting vital services, yet finds money to give to a billionaire, sells land at far less than market value to a millionaire which under-bids on jobs in construction are the things which are strange (if not unacceptable), not my uncovering them. I look forward to publishing Part 2 of this article shortly; no doubt George will have something to say about it as well. In fact, I’m finding it hard to remember the last time I wrote something George (if that’s his name) didn’t comment on. But thank you George – as long as you stay legal, avoid libel, and want to say something of value and relevance, do go ahead and post.
Cordially, Suzanne
I shall keep on commenting for as long as my comments are allowed, I don’t agree with your views and will voice that if I can.
Keep on being negative about people who have done far more good for my City than you have (in my opinion) and I’ll keep on pulling you up.
Champagne socialism doesn’t sit well in my book, Aberdeen is rife with it and in my opinion it is damaging the City.
And my real name is George, I have nothing to hide or fear by posting my real name. I am part of no group and have no political leanings, I’m certainly not a “propagandist”, I’m merely someone who dislikes the way some activists (imo) are holding back progress in our City, I’m born and bred here and can see it slipping into disrepair, me views on reversing that are the opposite of yours and I won’t be silenced on airing that viewpoint.
I’m well aware of the libel laws and have recently been successful when defending myself in a case, a case that now is actually cited as case law in bulletin board cases, it’s not something I would wish to do again due to the time it involved so if you feel I acted with malice towards you then I apologise and will strive to make it clear my viewpoints are just my opinion.
btw The council did not give money to a Billionaire, that is simply just misleading the reader imo, it gave money to a joint venture along with the Wood family trust to fund a very worthwhile project involving two schools, hundreds of children benefited and the long term benefits can only be good for the city, I just can’t see the negative in the programme, I actually hope the next school it’s introduced too is my daughters. The way you’ve written it above in my opinion makes it sound like the Council gave Sir Ian Wood directly.
The project in question;
http://www.woodfamilytrust.org/current-programmes/EnterpriseEducation.php
Lets hope it encourages many of the children to set up business and provide employment, it may even spawn the next Aberdeen born Billionaire and could even lead on to another person from our area funding charity work in the poorer parts of Africa as Sir Ian does.
Congratulations to Michael Forbes! It would be interesting to find out how many votes were cast, but it is a powerful message all the same. If you’re out there Mr Salmond and Mr Trump, people clearly care about the situation at Menie.
A loud minority shout as always, the majority like me are glad to have Mr Trump investing in the area, how people can favour a ramshackle farm over a World class golf course is beyond me.
Champagne socialism at its best, people who hate the wealthy yet sit in their owned 4 bedroom detached watching their 50″ Plasma and typing on a £1200 Mac book, Aberdeen, don’t you just love it.
George, how do you know it’s a minority? 68% of folk in the north east dislike Donald Trump intensely. I don’t have a 50″ plasma. In fact I don’t have a television at all. I don’t hate the wealthy. I have many extremely wealthy friends. I hate Donald Trump because he is an arrogant, mendacious and manipulative bastard. It has nothing to do with his wealth.
Before claiming that Trump’s course is world-class and will benefit Scotland, I suggest you check out Mr Trump’s track record, which casts severe doubt over his ability to run the proverbial drinks party in a beer-making factory. His working day appears to involve tweeting for hours and bragging the rest of the time about how much money he has and how clever he is. These latter practices are generally deemed unnecessary by billionaires or seriously intelligent people, which leads us all to wonder how much truth there is in anything he says.
By contrast, Michael Forbes has worked hard all his life and is merely trying to protect his own home, where his family has lived for generations. He is a true hero, in the David and Goliath mould, and represents the 99%.
Footnote: The Deer Cull costs from the previous year certainly mount up, too. Details can be found at https://aberdeenvoice.com/2012/01/tree-for-every-citizen-scheme-not-so-cost-neutral-after-all/
My god this is horrendous. I am shocked but I dont know why. Perhaps its because its a lot worse than I thought.
Why is this allowed to go on? Why is nothing done about it.
The answer is perhaps obvious. All tarred by the same brush?
*Post moderated, Sheila, it has been necessary to remove a small part of your post for legal reasons. Although many many sympathise and agree with the removed part, Aberdeen Voice cannot be responsible for publishing direct accusations. Please continue to contribute your comments. your input is welcome, but be aware of the boundaries we must operate within.
– Moderator.
What a joke, the mans property is a disgrace, a biased vote based on a terrible slanted documentary, where are the cries that it was a one sided vote based on misleading information, hypocrites.
George, you could have voted on the basis of the information you have. It was a well advertised, open, public vote which accurately reflects the views of the participants.
Alasdair,
I had no idea this vote was taking place, where was it advertised? Socialist Worker newspaper no doubt.
George I saw it on the Scotsman website and then it spread virally across facebook, twitter and presumably other social networks. It’s a national award that’s been running for years. You maybe need to pay more attention.
George, does the socialist worker still exist? I was never a big fan, probably last saw a copy about 20 years ago in the Prince of Wales
An who are you taejudge Georgie boy??How anyone can put a golf course above an SSSI is beyond me…an i’m no a tree hugger…nor a member of the bunny brigade…I’m a Scot who will no stand by an watch some yank ruin my country fer profit!!
The course is there – it could have been built by making reasonable offers to buy property and accepting that not everyone wants to sell, instead of appealing to the Govt to use CPOs, and building huge mounds (which may contravene planning rules) to obscure ‘views’. Instead Trump acted like a baby to try to get everything his own way.
A pathetic way to try to do business and we shouldn’t tolerate it.
Forbes wants to live as he has – what’s wrong with that?
Or would you stand idly by as I offered you a fraction of the value of your home on the back of promises of gajillions of jobs for the area, regardless of the implausibility of the claims?
Mr Trump didn’t use 1 CPO, still comes a huge outcry from the usual suspects, meanwhile in Tillydrone 15 CPO’S are to be issued for a third Don crossing, where is the outcry about the rights of these people? No one is interested because it isn’t being done by a rich person that they hate on a personal level.
Forbes was living in a run down hovel, the place has not been worked for years, where was the outcry that this was spoiling a place of special scientific interest? No one cared about him or the area till Mr Trump bought it.
Socialists and the usual far left supporters don’t half talk a load of rubbish and have selective memories when it comes to things they support.
George, you and your cronies have a right bee in your bonnet about “far left socialist tree-huggers” and “champagne socialists”… to listen to you, you’d think we spent our lives printing off communist tracts in freezing garrets or down the Brewdog toasting the death of capitalism…
George, Trump requested that the council use CPOs and he would have been absolutley delighted if they had done so. You’ll find a link to the letter in which the Trump orgaisation requests the CPOs on Andy Wightman’s blog, here. http://www.andywightman.com/?p=858 If you look at it you will see they state clearly “the purpose of this letter is to ask the Council to exercise its powers of compulsory purchase under section 189 of the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 to acquire the eight plots of land on behalf of TIGLS.”
By the way, I’m opposed to the Third Don Crossing and happy to put my name to any petition opposing the compulsory purchase orders that apply thereto.
I’M interested in and back those who would have their peace and quiet destroyed and property ravaged by the building of a bridge in the wrong place. I differ from many of Trump’s critics in that, even as someone who despises the stupid game, I know that golf courses do a pretty good job of looking after coastal environments. I am concerned about the SSSI needs being ridden over rough-shoddedly, though.
My biggest gripe is the manner in which this bully has operated from day one. He’s a blustering toys-oot merchant whose behaviour I would not have tolerated from my bairns when they were wee.
I’m going to enjoy watching the FM twist and turn on this though.
Hey George,
Have you had a look at the Tripping up Trump pages on Facebook? Seems you’re famous since this article was posted there and folk from home and abroad responded to your comments.
To see how the world views you and your opinions check it out at http://www.facebook.com/groups/105372397865/?fref=ts
“and then somehow a private stadium which Milne would decant AFC into, turning AFC’s historic grounds into housing for his own profit”
What a load of rubbish, without Mr Milne Aberdeen football club could well cease to exist, the sale of the land at Pittodrie (a crumbling stadium which costs a fortune to maintain) would go into servicing the huge debt, a debt not quite so big this week as Mr Milne has agreed to turn part of the debt due to him into shares in the club. The new stadium would be built by borrowing a huge amount on a mortgage, this would presumably again be need to be underwritten by Mr Milne. If you or anyone else suggest he’s interested in AFC for his “own profit” then you are either deluded or have not done enough research, the club is loss making to over £1 Million per year and Mr Milne draws no salary, how on earth could he make a profit?
I really look forward to your reply, to me that is another misleading article the same as last weeks about Sir Ian.
“special area of conservation at Loirston ”
This is turning into another Menie, no one cares about it till someone proposes building something for the good of the community on it, how many special areas do we have, looks like another piece of unvisited scrubland to me.
Scotland. O.K. to hole a mans boat and deprive him of income. Get a life.
You truly believe that boat shown in the documentary would have floated? It looked like a long deserted rotten shell to me, and I presume you have proof that Mr Trump or his people holed a boat?
Wonderful news not only for Michael but for all the residents. Nobody should be bullied in this disgusting way. Also who gave Donald Trumps bullies the right to stop people walking on the foreshore!
Mr Forbes lives on a working farm. Real life tends to be untidy, as does the natural environment. Personal attacks on a working man do not lend support or credence to your increasingly spurious arguments.
That is not a working farm!
Please substantiate this statement.
I am shocked that money was found for fencing but the deer were killed anyway. Shameful.
Lynn,
This was a controlled shoot done by experts, the aim was not to wipe out the Deer population but to control it in a manner that would allow they long term herd and the newly planted trees to thrive, these type of culls are carried out all over Scotland on a regular basis. If it wasn’t done the deer population would explode and the poor animals would in some cases starve to death. None of us like seeing wild animals killed but if you go beyond the headline you’ll find it is for the deer populations long term health that these things are done, when the deer have a mature forest to wander through up there people will hail it as a success story.
George, can you tell us more about this “controlled shoot done by experts”, please? Where do you get your information, other than the P&J?
“When the deer have a mature forest to wander through,” George. Bit optimistic that, is it not, given that phase one was a dismal failure.
Peter,
I’m well read and well aware of how deer populations need controlling for their own good, try googling the subject.
I’ll do that, George, and will eat my hat when vast herds of deer are grazing a heavily-wooded Tullos Hill, I’m sure…
Mike Forbes truly deserves this award for the honesty and integrity he has shown in the face of lies misinformation and propaganda, not solely from the Trump Organisation but from a vociferous minority who actually believe they may personally benefit from this environmental disaster that is as yet far from proven. A little due diligence before bowing down to Trump would have done us, the Scottish people, no harm at all. Well done Mike, a deserved award based on an open public vote.
One has to laugh – Trump is possibly the most petulant, puerile and pathetic person to walk the planet. Having failed once again to get his way he has now banned Glenfiddich from his bars. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/05/donald-trump-whisky-award?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038
With all due respect to Mr Smith, if you look at Trump’s track record, he rarely finishes the projects he begins. There are holes in the ground in many places where he attempted to build whatever it was to be, always using the same words, “best in the world,” “world class” and “famous”, all of which are untrue and proven to be so.
Mr Trump is a snake oil salesman of the first degree. He has had so many failed businesses, but has learned how to work the system in his favour. When he defaults on loans, he sues the banks for wanting to pursue. He is narcissistic and pathological. His self-importance is mind-blowing. To get behind this man can only result in disappointment and, for some, complete financial ruin.
I have read business article after business article recounting all these truths. The man is not well; I truly think his mental health is completely shot but he surrounds himself with yes men who will do his bidding and never question his decisions or statements. His behaviour after the last US elections shows how tentative his hold on reality really is. I would bet everything I have (and that’s very little), that this venture will never reach full development. He has been trying to back out while saving face for over a year (blaming everything from the economic climate, to investors, to windfarms).
Powerful business lobbies have always operated in cities to enhance ” the greater good.” Invariably, the “good” part is that they line their own pockets in the process.
Suzanne is right. All monies from the public purse should be clearly accounted for, in miniscule detail.
Ron,
I agree, wonder if she managed to get a breakdown on the money that was given to Peacock, seeing as our council leader is on the board there it would be of interest to see if this in anyway benefited them, in the name of transaprency of course.
One wonders how she now views the Labour leaders on another matter as well, they appear to have been voted in in certain areas by opposing the third Don crossing, it now looks imo like they’re going to go against their election pledge and vote for it, surely this brings the whole election into focus as they probably wouldn’t have got in if they’d told the truth, in turn the CGP would have probably got the go ahead. Time for some real investigative journalism from our inquisitive reporter, surely a journalist doesn’t allow their own opinion to get in the way of a big story!
Never been to New York (no desire to go their either, to be honest). Did make Newark once though. Excellent public transport there also.
Now the comment about Glasgow is spot on. First Glasgow don’t rip you off by charging a “supplement” on their morning peak day ticket, unlike First Aberdeen. The Subway is a really cheap alternative to the bus also. Shame we haven’t had Aberdeen Crossrail implemented, after 30 years of talking about it. Just imagine, Cove to Guild Street in 6 minutes or so, instead of 30, or so, by bus. Glasgow also has the SPTE which ensures you pay a reasonable fair within their sphere of operations. Oh but we could have a similar authority to constrain First Aberdeen.
Could do with the Tesco Clubcard points myself Suzanne. Maybe we could lobby our councillors to get a cut in the action?
An award won by someone of integrity who stood up to a bully. Well deserved Mike.
“The Donald” has been slapped down a few times and invairiably throws his toys out of the pram and goes in to the huff. We’ve seen it all before.
Alasdair,
The fact still remains that not ONE CPO was issued for the golf course to be built, now why is no one up in arms about the 15 Tillydrone families about to receive their CPO? No documentary, not a peep on here, please explain why they don’t matter when a man who owns a ramshackle farm does….and he still lives there!?
I suspect if it was Mr Trump away to build the bridge it would be a different story.
I for one don’t want a third river crossing and I certainly don’t want it going through a built up estate, I do wonder if it was a more afluent area affected then peoples viewpoint would change.
George, did I say they didn’t matter? No. I said I am opposed to the 3rd Don crossing and to the use of any CPO’s connected to it. I’m not involved in a campaign against it because one can’t be involved in tackling every injustice i this crazy world but if the opportunity comes up and I’m in a position to offer support I most certainly will.
There is a search function George, you should learn to use it. 4 articles about the Don crossing found easily.
https://aberdeenvoice.com/2010/07/bridge-on-the-river-why/
https://aberdeenvoice.com/2010/09/riverside-picnic/
https://aberdeenvoice.com/2010/09/third-don-crossing-jam-tomorrow/
https://aberdeenvoice.com/2012/07/the-don-crossing/
If there is a problem with items not being covered in the depth they deserve, then it is cos too many like yourself have plenty to say, but too few actually do anything about it in a constructive way. No, instead, guys like you prefer to pick holes in people who are investing their own time and energy doing things, finding stuff out and sharing information.
You have never even bothered to vote in a council election I understand. So who are you to comment on municipal projects and whether or not they should happen? The phrase ‘all mouth and no action’ springs to mind.
You have said somewhere on here that you are not willing to write an article to put your side of the story. And yet you think it’s OK to tell others how they should go about it. get a F**king grip.
Do you not see the irony in complaining about things that are not getting done while you yourself do f**k all of benefit to anyone but yourself?
You claim Mr Forbes lives in a ‘ramshackle farm’ and that it is not a working farm. You are wrong on both counts, and as you have never been to Mr Forbes’ home, you are not qualified to comment.
You make a lot of noise about people being of the ‘far left’ and yet you don’t know enough about any of the people you refer to qualify such a comment. However, as you are known to be a supporter of the EDL, I expect, next to you, nearly everyone including Trump and Margaret f**king Thatcher are of the ‘far left’.
I think George, just like the Donald you have admitted that you ‘love’, that you are a a source of hot air bubbling through a bellyful of s**te.
I know this is a forum for comments, and everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I can’t see what if any quality you add.
Gary, thanks for your eloquent response to George. You said it so much better than I would have!! And thanks for pointing out his affections for a racist organisation. All we get from him is that we are champagne socialists and extreme leftists without him ever actually taking any of our arguments seriously. I can’t be arsed with him any more. I’m away for a large Glenfiddich, slainte!
I just listened to the news and it appears that Trump is being quoted yet again.
“George Smith,” he said, “never heard of him, but he’s probably a loser!”
Gary Sim,
You don’t agree with my opinions so think I should be silenced, that’s fascist in the extreme, ironic seeing most here are daft socialists with stupid ideals that would never work in the real world, smash the rich, pay the poor etc etc! Move to North Korea and see how it works in practise!
I can see past the facade, no one really cares a damn about the golf course being built, what they care about is how a rich man they deem to be the enemy is building a course, they complain and shout about the treatment of his neighbours(not one of whom has been evicted) yet say not a peep when 15 families in their own City face being booted out of their homes.
The EDL link is tedious, I once liked a link slamming the poppy burning extreme islamists on facebook and now I’m an EDL supporter, that’s misinformation and damn right rude of you to try and blacken my name because I don’t agree with your opinion, typical far left reponse to any debate they’re losing.
Dear George – while I do refrain from posting on AV, here are some quotes from someone named George Smith from Facebook. There are screenshots backing each one up. Perhaps it is a different George Smith? If so, this George Smith has remarkably similar interests and views to your own:
1. “Keep digging Fred, I support the movement and its leadership, Tommy Robinson is inspirational, check out his speeches on you tube, I don’t support the bigots who sometimes tag on to them on facebook.”
Screenshot taken 19 September
2. “The EDL has no links to violence or hate based activities, I thought you would go behind the headlines before chucking generic Daily Mail style ranting at me, they are a non violent movement who campaign against the spread of radical islam and sharia law, I fully support them.”
Screenshot taken 19 September
3. “Nice dodge and I’m about as far removed from being a racist as anyone could get, I have coloured friends, on facebook as well as real life.”
Screenshot taken 19 September
4. “Fred, with the greatest of respect I know far more about the EDL than you, if some daft kid posts something on facebook it can’t be helped and shouldn’t reflect at all on the sterling work they are doing all over Britain.”
This George Smith seems to adore the EDL; it is quite a coincidence.
Regards, Suzanne
You never stop posting on here! lol
And that facebook page was very quick to exclude me from posting, well done on the out of context posts though, perhaps seeing as you’re impartial you’ll post the full exchanges so the readers here can make up their own mind?
As ever the extreme left bend over backwards to blacken the name of someone who debates with them in a civilised manner, I would never dream of snooping into the backgrounds of any of the people who have debated with me on here, no matter how much I disagree with them, as my position on a lot of things is so different I expect their lifes and political opinions to be different from mine as well.
For the benefit of doubt and incase the FULL conversation is not printed, I as I’ve said many times fully support the EDL in their fight against radical Islam, I despise seeing these people barrack our soldiers, burn poppies, blow up tube trains and buses etc, I have completely no problem with law abiding people of any faith or creed, pity Sussanah didn’t paste my post where i said I would be happy for Aberdeens new mosque to be built in my back garden, selective editing to blacken someones name, the art of Murdoch, now brought to you by the Aberdeen Voice! Whilst I agree with them I’m not a supporter nor member of them.
And that’s me done with this place, enjoy patting each other on the back in the future, I’m just an ordinary working man with a family that happens to disgaree with the way this paper has treated some people and the way it has campaigned against certain projects, if i can’t post without fear or favour then there is no point, my work wouldn’t take kindly to employing someone labled as a racist and I need work to pay the bills, thanks to all those who debated in a civilised manner.
I went to see the doctor this week after suffering from insomnia for a long while and, glory be, he pointed me in the direction of a miracle cure.
“Go and read George Smith’s rantings in response to articles in Aberdeen Voice,” he said and, do you know what – it really works.
I read Mr S’s comments yesterday evening and have just had the best night’s sleep in a long time.
Thank you George!
Well said Big Eck.
George really is so bo-o-o-o-ring – and the sad thing is, I think he thinks he’s clever. Poor misguided boy!
Some very interesting points raised Susanne. Unelected quangos should never be in a position to dictate to government, local or national, that projects should simply be rubber stamped. Due process should always be followed. It is patently obvious that this was not the case in The City Garden project.
As you say at the beginning, “Aberdeen’s Granite Web is history.” Long may it stay that way.
Just read this Suzanne. Excellent work. Very worrying indeed.
EDIT; Should have said fully support the aim of the edl.
TIA For editing this for me and I wish you well in the future.
Cheerio.
I would like to add that even if I was the leader of the EDL I would still be allowed an opinion on any matter affecting my home town and should be allowed to air that view without my life being dug into, just yesterday one of the editorial people here posted my work details on Facebook, it only takes one radical opponent to my views to then take the next step of tracking down where I live and that puts my family in danger, please be more careful in the future before deciding to blacken someone’s name because they don’t agree with you on an issue.
Well, I see that George not only found the Tripping Up Trump page, but joined it and an hour after he submitted his first post the following message appeared from the page admin – “He has been removed from the group after being a member for less than an hour..”
Seems the man’s getting to be as popular as his angry role model!
My sides are sore with laughing, you have a fair talent Bob!
Thanks a million Sean. Glad you enjoyed it.
Bob
Excellent, I take my hat off to your tenacity. Who watches the watchers is this conniving and duplicitous world of politics and global companies?
Thinking about the Christmas good-will or lack of in Aberdeen. I heard a story, that when Marks & Spencer’s shelves had been emptied of their turkeys, customers started pinching turkeys out of other people’s trolleys!
Oh my goodness! Impressive article dude! Thank you, However I
am having issues with your RSS. I don’t know why I am unable to subscribe to it. Is there anybody having similar RSS problems? Anyone who knows the solution can you kindly respond? Thanx!!
Sean,
Get a life min, I’ve lived in Aberdeen ower 60 years and never ever seen anything close to that ever happening, awa and eat yer nut roast an leave the res o us tae enjoy xmas. doon we trump and wood but nae we the good folk of aberdein,.
Bob I was told this when I worked in Marks & Spencer, by more than one senior member of staff. Perhaps if you came off your drugs, you might have a more realistic view of life in Aberdeen.
I was reading The Sunday Mail magazine Right At Home and it featured a Scottie Dog Harris Tweed cushion. Could you tell me if these are available to buy and how much they are? Thanks.
Yes they are available to buy although stocks are very low due to the demand coming up to Christmas. If you look on our Facebook page Crafty Things Scottie- land it will give you an idea of the colours of Harris Tweed we use and you can contact us Craftythings1@ googlemail.com
Saw one of the “Scottie dog cushions in a sunday paper. Would like to know the price of them as i would like to send two to my son for a house warming presant as they live in England. Would be grateful for a reply. Regards May Smart.
And for the thieves to do this to a charity at Christmas.
Interested in the Scottie dog tweed cushions, can you give me price and colour options please. Regards Karen Cavin
Thankyou for your interest in our Scottie Dog cushions. There are many colours available .We have a face book page Crafty Things Scottie-land which will give you an idea of some of the colours.please contact us at Craftythings1@googlemail.com.regards Jan Pearce
Loved your Scottie cushions can I purchase two of them? What tweeds do they
come in.
Kind regards
Irene Tod.
Thankyou for you’re interest in our Scottie Dog cushions. For an idea of colours you could have a look at our facebook page Crafty Things Scottie-land. And contact us on Craftythings1@googlemail.com. Regards Jan Pearce
I also saw the Scottie Dog Cushsions and would like to purchase. Please advise. Many thanks
Hello, I also saw your gorgeous Harris Tweed Scottie Dogs in the Sunday Mail and I would love to be able to purchase two.
Could you please advise how much these are and how I can purchase these?? Thank you.
Thank you for your message,we are so pleased you like our Scottie Dog cushions.please contact us at Craftythings1@googlemail.com or you can phone us on 07725855065.thanks Jan Pearce
Re Scottie Dog cushions. You need to contact the project. See contact details in the above article under the heading ‘Further information’
Hi all, delighted that so many people like our Scottie Dog cushions. To contact us direct you can email craftythings1@gmail.com or visit our Facebook page Crafty Things Scottie-land.
Keep the orders coming. Dogs are £45 each plus postage and we have lots of other HarrisTweed products for sale, too. Maggie
Aye, I was lucky enough to attend a talk by Councillor Neil Cooney (Bob’s nephew) at Aberdeen College recently, and stirring stuff it was! Inspiring also that the working class of Aberdeen used to gather in their thousands to fight Fascism, on one magnificent occasion booting the Fascists’ collective arse all over the Castlegate before running them clean out of the city. If only such political awareness existed these days…
Dr Suz,
Only one word to descibe this. BRILLIANT!!
Suzanne,
Do you realise how much the harbour affects the whole economy of the North East, if its at capacity it would be sheer folly to not extend, plenty other ports all over the Country will happily take up the slack but with that you’d see companies having to relocate and jobs being lost in Aberdeen. Please don’t make this important project another of the Aberdeen voices targets, with the oil industry in decline we need the harbour more than ever.
I note the SSSI tag has already been applied to the harbour project just like at Loirston and Menie, careful not to wear it out or the boy who cried wolf might come into play when something really important needs protecting.
Absolutely brilliant Dr Suz! You’ve said it all for us. I hope The Wooden Grinch takes note and drops his threats in his role as a very determined Grim Reaper still hovering over OUR Gardens in the coming year.
All very well extending the harbour Bob, but what happens to all this extra capacity when the oil runs done? New fields are to be developed West of Shetland, it appears. Are they likely to use Aberdeen harbour?
Significant development is ongoing at Peterhead. Surely spreading the work throughout the region would be no bad thing?
Poor Ian. Nobody loved him it seems. I wonder why?
Well said Suz. Money is god. Greed is good and whatever you do don’t care a hoot about you’re fellow man. That’s what the great and the good seem to believe anyway. Our country is becoming more Americanised each decade. Do we really want to become as bankrupt as that nation in time. I wonder when the first Chinese US President will be appointed?
It is a great recording, the Laggan track is particularly stirring.
The talk n Aberdeen college was on Aberdonians in the Spansh civil War. I willbe repeating it as part of the Kings Museum lectures on the evening of Tuesday 5 February.
I’d be happy to give the notes to Aberdeen Voice if they think there is a wider audience for it.
you’ve got to be kidding me you cannot be serious?!
Great story. This is how Social Media ought to be.
Your columns get better!
Willie Young pledged at the last local election (merely Months ago) that he and his party were against the 3rd Don crossing, it’s the reason his party managed to scrape a coalition together as the areas around the proposed crossing all voted Labour. How can you as a supposed journalist be so blind as to ignore basic facts, fair enough it doesn’t suit your agenda as without Labour’s little white lie the SNP would have probably got into power and the City Garden Project would be happening but please don’t bend the truth.
In your defence on another issue; I’m really surprised you didn’t fall on the side of the poor car thiefs, I thought you’d be saying they wouldn’t be thiefs if it wasn’t for the nasty tories, what other options do they have etc etc……..no doubt some of your champagne socialist friends have nice Audi’s!
My elderly grandmother was in Rowan Court, she had jewelry and ornaments go missing, which were never recovered. I did speak informally with the social work inspectorate and decided to not to pursue the matter with the police in case there were repercussions against my grandmother.
Excellent. How do I vote for you? Or can you at least tell me who to vote for?
Susannah,
I presume before writing your article you were aware Councillor Willie Young got voted in on the Bridge of Don ward, a ward of course that would have been particularly swayed by Labours manifesto pledge not to build a 3rd crossing and have all the extra roads through the ward that the bridge would have spawned. It makes your argument even more laughable that he only changed his mind after much thought due to the building work of the last Council, your argument isn’t even close to holding water infact its like a sieve with extra holes in it.
Labour went back on a manifesto pledge that will see many families kicked out of their lifetime homes through no choice of their own and the best you can say is you’re “unsure whether or not this crossing is a good idea”!! It doesn’t matter if it’s a good idea it was in Labours manifesto that it wouldn’t happen.
As an activist paper you see nothing wrong in this, shame on you, enjoy your brewdog beer tonight whilst more than a dozen families who were lied too worry what will become of them and their homes in the coming weeks.
One wonders how this paper would be reacting if Sir Ian Wood, Donald Trump or Stewart Milne were behind this bridge plan, I think we all know the answer to that.
Seems the blind mantra against certain rich people is more important than the real issues affecting real working class families in the area.
Great story, good factual points, and it still surprises me that the law enforcement agency is still dragging its feet, although I did hear tonight they have arrested a young lad for the theft & destruction of the Audi r5 that was stolen just a couple of days ago.
This does not mean anything to the people of Aberdeen, and the thieves out there, the residents are still angry, and scared, the thieves even more ambitious to go on their rampage of terror.
If a high profile outing of these so called “louts” is not forthcoming, I can see the power of Social Media sites like Facebook turning out yet another more frightening sequel to these events, vigilante groups, just like neighborhood watch, but a lot more violent.
Scary as it may sound, but that’s what I have been hearing, and if these people turn up at hospital saying a mob did it to them, then I saw nothing, i heard nothing, and i never will …..
It is generally accepted that a third Don crossing is required, the location of it is the problematic part. Is it wise to divert large traffic volumes through a housing estate? They could simply follow the seafront from The Black Dog or The Exhibition Centre, but that would lop a piece of a golf course – perish the thought – and be somewhat more expensive. Better to dump it on the deprived area of Tillydrone it seems.
The point about the new build housing at Mugiemoss is well made Suzanne. I seem to recollect that a certain guy named Stuart, well versed in house building, mentioned the possibility of a railway halt being included in the project. That sensible idea seems to have been lost along the way somewhere. The planners even allowed building right down to the existing road, so no chance of widening that either.
You forgot to mention the grandiose plans for George Square in Glasgow. Apparently they necessitate the re-emergence of that catastrophe proposed for Union Terrace Gardens. No doubt there will be an equally biased consultation and perhaps skewed referendum in Glasgow also. Labour won power, to a great degree, because they wanted to save the city from building any more carbuncles and the SNP lost. More than enough has been said on that dead issue. Strangely, the populace of Glasgow seem unimpressed with their traunch of “artists impressions.” where have we heard that before?
The ConDems have certainly made a few u turns, not to mention told a few porkies not previously mentioned in their manifesto. The easiest and probably best solution would be an overwhelming vote for independence in 2014. We booted them out of Scotland en masse in 1997. Let’s do the job properly this time as they never seem to learn.,
Have you showed the page to the police or just left it for someone else to report ?
Fine. well-observed piece,John. We could do with more like you.
for a bit more clarity, this piece was specifically referring to the Press & Journal’s attack this past week on Willie Young for changing his mind from what it was in 2008. At the same time he voiced his opposition, he made it clear that he had to take the Labour Party’s line. Fast forward half a decade and a few hundred more homes later, and the picture has changed. I still can’t say I support this new crossing, but since we’ve permitted massive home building (more often than not on green space rather on brownfield), we do have to do something.
I do try not comment on these pages, but I did want to clarify this point. Another point worth reviewing is that even the greatest among us can perform U-Turns. No less a person than George Smith himself posted this on Aberdeen Voice some weeks back:-
“And that’s me done with this place, enjoy patting each other on the back in the future, I’m just an ordinary working man with a family that happens to disgaree with the way this paper has treated some people and the way it has campaigned against certain projects, if i can’t post without fear or favour then there is no point, my work wouldn’t take kindly to employing someone labled as a racist and I need work to pay the bills, thanks to all those who debated in a civilised manner.”
Nice to have you back, George, even if this return does constitute a U-Turn
An excellent article. I have been following a lot of the threads recently regarding motor theft in Aberdeen and couldn’t agree more with the point made here.
This is social media journalism at it’s best, thank you. We’ve the right to know these things-and now, thanks to you, we do. Clearly, you are keeping within the publishing laws regarding live cases, so one has to wonder why the local press did not also publish a more thorough and far-reaching investigation into what is clearly a huge problem in our city/shire at the moment.
I am concerned to see that you are concluding that “friends” of this page are partaking in the vehicle theft or in fact condoning it. When I first heard of this Facebook page I immediately went to have a look, only to find the page wall posts were private unless you became a “friend”. I was tempted to click that and would have done but only to see the wall posts and the discussions taking place by these vehicle thieves, does that make me an accessory to their crimes? Does it make my employer NHS Grampian an accessory to their crimes? Does it mean that my work as a nurse is poorly done and that I treat people poorly? Be careful of how you consider the “friends” of this page as they may just be inquisitive as a lot of the posts are not visible unless you do befriend the page.
As far as the rest of this article goes, it is so concerning for the residents of Aberdeen that these practices are not being tackled, I have heard reference to vigilante responses being the next step which concerns me even more.
As a family we have taken steps to enhance security at our house but to be completely honest, should an intruder still decide to somehow break into our house with the intention of theft of any item I am sure I will not confront them. I do not want to be beaten in my own home for trying to protect my belongings and I certainly do not want to end up with criminal charges for defending my home should I be given opportunity to do so. Its terrifying to think that if I picked up a household item and threw it at an intruder because I was scared for the lives of my children and my family I would be the one who ended up on the wrong side of the police.
My car was stolen two years ago i know who buy have told the police and they haven’t done anything despite me making 3 complaints against them now. they don’t want to lock these scumbags up becouse they are keeping them in a job.
Typical Grampian Police incompetence.
This article seems to imply that the facebook page should be shut down- which would mean the police lose their richest source of evidence, leads and persons of interest- doesnt seem like a smart move to me…
Whilst I don’t agree with theft or crime, this article is poorly written and seems to miss the point. I also agree with Nurse that you cannot infer that ‘friends’ of said group partake in car theft and are are therefore a risk to people. Just saying.
‘FaceBook’?
‘special abilities’??
Absolutely the kind of issue for which Aberdeen Voice is crying out. Somewhat diminished by assuming any Facebook page’s friends automatically sympathise with its aims. People have been known to ‘like’ pages run by those whose views they can’t abide simply to enable commenting (Barney Crockett Is A Disgrace To Democracy is a good example). They also ‘like’ pages promoting behaviour they wouldn’t dream of engaging in themselves because it’s vicarious online stuff, innit? But let’s imagine someone at the NHS looks through the group’s friends as a result of reading this and says: “Oh, there’s young Jimmy, the theatre orderly from Foresterhill.” Whether or not young Jimmy has ever had as much as a fleeting thought about stealing cars, the consequences could be dire. It’s the page admins and picture posters we should be trying to expose, not where people work. Also a bit concerned by the author’s assertion that: “If these people willingly advocate theft, then this indicates an elevated risk to the people in their care.” Really? Some of the most professional, dedicated, competent and compassionate people I’ve ever known have been complete nutters that got up to all sorts off duty. Otherwise informative. Might be in the P&J by Christmas.
No one voted me in to post here, that’s the big difference, I can change my mind at will. If I’d made a manifesto stating I’d never post here again I wouldn’t.
You keep backing Mr Young and ignore the lies, it makes for fun reading seeing you try and defend the indefensible. .
The families facing compulsory purchase orders won’t find it funny and this is why I’ll continue to post, I wouldn’t have the need if this activist paper was doing its job properly.
The existing bridge at Persley should be widened to have twin lanes on each side and the road widened right up to the haudagain, the Parkway should also be widened, this could be done without kicking loads of families out of their homes and would avoid putting a major road through a housing estate.
I have to agree with your last points George. The land exists to dual The Parkway and The Persley Bridge could either be widened, or a second bridge built adjacent to provide for dualling there (this has been proposed for The Bridge of Dee for manys a long year). Of course, none of this is practical until The “Haudupagain” is resolved and there seems no hurry on that one either.
Such a shame our planners and politicians (of all shades) hadn’t a bit more foresight fifty years ago. Had they pressed for a branch rail line from Woodside/Persley over The Don, to serve the burgeoning Bridge of Don Estates, many of the traffic issues would not have arisen. Even now, The Aberdeen Crossrail scheme keeps getting kicked in to the long grass, even when, at minimal cost, it could implemented, using existing infrastructure by simply extending trains from the North to Stonehaven and some of those from the South to Inverurie. New build halts at Bucksburn, Woodside, Cove and Newtonhill would only cost around £15m, much less than The City Garden Project and of much more use to Aberdonians.
Willie Young is between a rock and a hard place. He knows something needs to be done and done fast, but he has to consider his constituents as well. I certainly wouldn’t like to be in his position.
George, rather than moderate this post and have you once again crying foul, We will simply point out to you and other readers that the role of Aberdeen Voice as an organisation has been explained to you on several occasions. As you appear to have some difficulty taking this information on board, we will state again.
Far from being an ‘activist paper’, we are an online publication which is open to a wide range of writers and opinions associated with Aberdeen and the North East …. including those of ‘activists’.
Our job has also been explained to you and can be read on our front page.
We have in the two and a half years of our existence published almost every single article contributed, accomodating charities, artists, musicians, community facilities and events, historical pieces, environmental projects, sport, health and fitness, creative writing, humour, and much more.
Bearing in mind that out of 1318 articles contributed, we have published 1297, I think we are doing pretty well – and all done by volunteers from top to bottom.
Therefore it is surely clear that your judgement that we are not doing our job properly is utter nonesense, but as you are so fiercely defensive of your freedom of speech, we’ll leave it as is and allow others to make up their own minds on the evidence which is easily accessible to all.
All the same, nice to see you back in the mix George.
— “What, if any, law was violated by Ms Ross is unknown.”
This is wrong, I don’t have it on hand (search Google and you’ll find it) but it is illegal to post “offensive” messages online and you can be imprisoned for up to 6 months for it.
However my guess is they asked her not to inflame the situation, boring sure but the likely answer.
Here we go again. The great and the good decide what the “ordinary man on the street” needs and wants. Perhaps a referendum of Glaswegians will resolve the problem and save £15m in the process unless, that is, it is run in the same way as that in Aberdeen which was, quite frankly, a farce, with the public ignored at every stage until the desired result was gotten.
Great piece, as ever. Gave lots of ‘pause for thought’.
Donald Trump is going to have very, very bad karma.
Trump can’t defeat nature, and it looks like it’s taking the course back from him. Is the planting of marram grass a realistic defence for the forces faced by the east coast? Although, I don’t suppose dear old Trump has had time to consider this now that his primary focus is wind farms located several miles away… in the sea.
Ha, the coucil will probably fix it for them !!
Thats what happens when you hire an Irish contractor!! Hopefully it will be swallowed up by the sea whilst the buffoon is playing it…..
What goes around comes back around to bite ya on the arse, couldn’t happen to a nicer guy 🙂
Does this ring any bells?
“My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away
Excellent! Great comment.
@Mike Xenophobic twat.
@R. Eric Swanepoel No it doesn’t. Got any poems about a shitty golf course or w*nker with a wig?
For a poem about w-nker with a wig trawl through the archives of Aberdeen Voice. There are a quite a few on there.
Is it wrong to laugh? I really do not like trump. The course should never have been allowed.
May there be 1000 windmills around it.
@Roger Daltry – do you have a wig? I ask as you’re clearly a w*nker.
Ok, lets call it off …. Aberdeen Voice does not like to over moderate or censor, but the comments facility is not a forum for namecalling …. please focus comments on the article.
Please note though.
@Mike. We passed your comment re Irish with some reluctance, but gave you the benefit of the doubt in terms of the promise of local jobs, and the non-materialisation of same. We are hopeful that Irish readers will see it similarly and not take offence.
@Roger Daltry. In view of the above, I can accept your judgement of Mike’s statement as Xenophobic. I do find your post to R Eric Swanepoel ( ie his apt quote from Shelley’s Ozymandias ) unnecessarily confrontational tho, but in spite of the choice language, have allowed you to express your view.
@sweet cheeks, in view of the above, your response is understandable.
@All …. IIn spite of the reluctance to censor and/or over-moderate, if the level of debate deteriorates any further, posts will be removed in order that the majority can read the comments section without having to suffer exchanges of a distasteful nature.
This is why a Moderator is called a Moderator – well done Moderator. I like this site more and more because of the moderation. Thank you.
( * Cheers John …. It’s a sair fecht, but somebody has to do it 🙂 – Moderator )
Jesus! I thought you Irish had a sense of humour?
As for the moderator…Are you perhaps a bible school teacher on the side?…True that rudeness on the comment section CAN be a problem…But it makes for fun reading watching adults snap at each other.
Did you really believe that you could print a story about a loudmouth American douche and not get SOME rude comments?… ( * Overt racist comment removed by Moderator )
Sweet cheeks gets a thumbs up by the way.
Anyways, to all much love from Monterey California.
Surely Moderator, it is of no great surprise the kind of comments you are receiving given the manner in which you have written the above article. It’s naive to believe otherwise. Hope all works out well for you though and that you resolve your differences in the locality. A big challenge ahead for all it seems.
No Ballanced, not a surprise, and as you will observe, we DO allow a lot of scope for readers to express their views, and do NOT like to moderate at all if we don’t have to.
But there are laws, and there are commonly understood boundaries of taste and decency which we are bound by in the same way as any other publication, and are obliged to observe and act upon.
Our request for a little restraint was in order that we can allow heartfelt exchanges to continue without having to intervene. We do prefer to present reader’s comments in their entirity.
Oh, and thanks for the good wishes.
The site was never going to be ideal for the proposed development. Perhaps Mr Trump should have listened to some of the advice he was offered instead of stubbornly persisting in his plans. None of us is more powerful than nature or immune to its acts of capriciousness, no matter how wealthy or important we might believe ourselves to be.
I have to ask, why is this not in any newspapers or online news sites yet? Surely you guys should have reported it to the BBC or someone similar? This is a story worthy of sharing! Many Scottish people will delight in this hilarity 🙂
( * In short Lynnski, Aberdeen Voice appear to be one of few, if not the only local media outlet interested in keeping the public updated on the REAL news from Menie. However, expect to see this story spill out tomorrow as many established media outlets will be picking it up. More from Menie coming soon in AV – Moderator )
Its a disgrace that he ever was allowed to build there, I hope that land is never used for golf but is always known as ‘trumps invasion” and our grandchildrens grandchildren will tell thier grandchildren about the frizzy haired twat who tried to ruin a beautiful landscape for his own profit
That was one of the most beautiful stretches of coast in the country and now it will never be the same again. Im glad for all the problems this is causing Mr Trump and his thugs but I feel very sorry for all the people who live on the estate who have had to put up with all this. My other main gripe with this sorry affair is the role of Grampian police who appear to nothing more than Trumps lackies. I would like to propose that a part of the site be used for a yearly festival of music and the arts. Cash raised could be used to help the area get back to some semblence of normality. Although he has destroyed a large swaith of the area.
Trump is always been an over leaveraged ‘pretend I am wealthy’ guy. His whole empire is a house of cards that when his creditors decide to pull the pin then thats that, as has happened in the past.
Canute wasn’t just famous for failing to hold back the tide.
In the year 1012 King Canute invaded Scotland, at Cruden Bay a few miles north of Menie.
He had power, he had soldiers.
The locals kicked his @rse.
Perhaps there is nothing new in the world?
I found this on Facebook! Live in USA, celebrating with Mother Nature. The bigger they are, the harder they fall (permaculture principle in a form of a traditional proverb). Trump has declared bankruptcy at least twice before. I’m amazed that ANYONE will lend him any money.
Yes I agree with Nurse and JM. As an employer I would be more concerned with the vigilanties, as some of these thieves family members who have done everything possible, regarding their son/daughter/brother/sister’s behaviour may work alongside the victims of car crime.
Upon reading the vigilanties comments would they adopt the same attitude at work and resort to bulling/violence in the workplace.
I believe the police used the theives pages as evidence and subsequently this lead to arrests, things seemed to get worse after vigilanties started up.
I also am aware that insurance companies were going to be putting their premiums up anyway, this just gave them an excuse.
I greatly admire Suzanne and Rob for bringing this to people’s attention, why the authorities won’t do anything is very worrying.
Sean, there may be some news on that very soon. I will let you know when I have the correct info re. repairs to the road.
Word came a few hours ago – the residents are told the road in question will be closed tomorrow and Friday; hopefully this is for repair work. Aberdeen Voice will report on this development when more news is in.
Excellent coverage, I thought. Cant wait to see the next issue!
I think many residents in many different countries have had their environment and livelihood wrecked permanently and irrevocably by psychopathic FAT CATS. They have lived sustainably and understand how everything works around them. I think is is equally worrying that local and national governments not only stand by, but assist in the destruction in an effort to be FAT CATS themselves, sitting in their mansions with their pensions.
Clearly the traditional hazards like bunkers and water aren’t enough for Donald Trump.
With snow and then rain forecast, seems a strange time to be carrying out road repairs.
I totally agree, any repairs will come apart when the water freezes!!!! A colleague of mine at work stated that it is perfectly legal for someone to divert water off their property even if it causes hardship to a neighbour, that cant be right surely?
I do not agree what there doing but I think your completely wrong in saying that some people who are friends with them work with that companys, just because there friends with them on Facebook has no importance with who they work for or if they know each other! that statement can lead to a few people being dismissed from there occupation due to you not getting your facts correct! A lot of people on social media websites like this just add them to be nosey to see what there written etc. and to egg them on at times!
A great idea Duncan. The comrades who fought in Spain were the vanguard in fighting fascism. I will add my voice to your personal quest.
An excellent series of articles. I look forward to Aberdeenshire Council’s response to their lack of enforcement over the planning breaches.
When are we going to get councillors and Members of the Scottish Parliament who insist that the police and planning enforcement officers enforce the law? When we vote for them.
Great series of articles, Suzanne. I particularly like your final quote from David Milne, re trees: “Your first clue that they won’t grow is that there aren’t already any here”. Shades of Tullos Hill!
This is a consistently good series of articles and I hope you are reaching a wide audience on this injustice.
Would I be right in saying that it is almost time for you (Susan) to have a large gathering for like minded people over to your house for a wee chat/catch up/sing song – or would you need your invitation list vetted by your neighbours?
As Hendrix once said: “Even Castles made of sand, fall into the sea, eventually.”
I’m getting one of these! http://amzn.to/VoC9al
You might be interested to see that Trump has also managed to get sacked from managing Trump Place in NY – one of his own flagship developments because he couldn’t maintain it!
http://www.examiner.com/article/donald-trump-fired-from-management-of-trump-place
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/23/the-donald-fired-from-trump-tower-no-longer-manger-new-york-high-rise_n_2006368.html
Donald Trump – the gift that keeps on giving – All together now ….. ” YOU’RE FIRED!” ….. I refuse to abbreviate in the worn out way, but I am genuinely laughing out loud at this…. well, at least I was until I started typing 🙂 … perhaps I should finish with WGLOLUIST ( Was genuinely laughing out loud until I started typing )
I wonder if the tall Mr Koot will be as brave in Iraq and tell the Iraqis what to do in their own country, as he has done in Aberdeen.
Great story, Suzanne!
While you acknowledge that the details of the case concerning a nurse who found a child wandering around ‘presumably’ after being left alone in a car “are unclear,” I’m at a loss to understand how you can question the outcome of a hearing conducted by her professional body when, by your own admission, you are not in possession of the facts.
Oh and by the way, her professional body is the Royal College of NursING not the Royal College of NursES – a fact that I would have thought would be fairly easy for a serious journalist to get right.
Dear Brian,
Thanks for pointing out the error regarding the Royal College of Nursing, which I have now fixed. We’re not perfect (writers, sub editors, editors); from the Aberdeen Voice to the top UK printed papers, errors do occur. Please do keep pointing them out.
However, I do feel perfectly comfortable questioning a system which decides that a woman who got things wrong, but potentially saved a child from an automobile accident or abduction, is immediately struck off, when that same system takes time to think about whether a convicted murderer and proven liar belongs nursing the sick. Note that I’m not condemning the College; I am just questioning the wisdom applied in these two situations. If authority is in the right, then there is no problem with questioning authority. Sadly, all too often authority is not perfect and is not always right. I’d say one of the more important functions of newspapers (even satirical pieces like this column) is to question authority.
It seems that I’m not alone in wondering about this issue. A petition has been set up to reinstate the nurse in question. Details can be found here:- http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/sacked-nurse-fights-to-win-back-registration/sign.html
Thanks Suzanne.
A couple of points.
Firstly, the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) is her ‘professional body’ in that it is the one which will provide representation for her and her colleagues in any action taken against them by either their employer or their regulatory body (in other words, her trade union).
On the other hand it is the regulatory body – The Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) – which makes decisions relating to nurses and midwives being suspended from or struck off, the Nursing Register.
It might also be helpful to note here that the system in place does not allow a nurse/midwife to be, in your words, “immediately struck off” the Nursing Register i.e. punitive measures can only be taken as the result of both a full investigation and a formal hearing.
Secondly, from the reports I have been able to find in the press, the nurse in question was sacked by her employer and ‘suspended’ (not ‘struck off’) by the NMC – although perhaps you have further information which I have been unable to find. It is also unclear whether the suspension from the Register is action taken following an official hearing – in which case she will have the right of appeal against the decision – or whether it is a temporary suspension while the matter is investigated.
She will also, no doubt, have had the benefit of a two or three stage process – with appeals at each stage – against her employer terminating her employment.
It may well be that this nurse has been wrongly accused of a misdemeanour and the action taken against her has been flawed.
On the other hand it may be that, rather than her actions being seen as having “potentially saved a child from an automobile accident or abduction,” the disciplinary process conducted by her employer and the investigation and any hearing, conducted by the NMC, found that her actions actually put the child at greater risk, or that she was, in some way, guilty of some greater misdeed.
My point is that while, to use your words again, the “details are unclear,” WE JUST DON’T KNOW!
So while I don’t have a problem with your view that questions should be asked about a convicted murderer being allowed to remain on the Nursing Register, I do have concerns about you juxtaposing it against a case of which, I would argue, none of us have all the facts – a tactic that smacks a bit of the devices employed in Mr Murdoch’s publications.
We appear to have reason to celebrate. The City Garden “project” has had the coffin lid firmly screwed down on it, according to friday’s Evening Express. Will there be wails of anguish at ACEF I wonder, or will they continue to embarrass themselves supporting a costly white elephant? The illustrious Mr Kootis heading for patures new. Perhaps a wise move for all concerned. That nation has been known to resolve “annoyances” with the use of a rope, or a hail of bullets so perhaps Mr Koot may feel somewhat constrained. Ah well.
While Suzanne may have made a slight error in describing the organisation that regulates nurses, perhaps Brian is being a bit harsh. We are all fallable. I am sure he makes his own little “errors” from time to time, as we all do. At the end of the day, the public, in the main, are supportive of the common sense exercised by the nurse in question. The main thing is the child was saved from potential serious injury, and that’s what matters. Hopefully a rethink on high will see her re-instated to her profession.
Stephen Williams must be an MP who works for his money.
Terrific and worthwhile but fit time does it start and how long is it predicted to last?
7.30 tae 8.30pm … like it says in the article ( cue eyes to the sky while innocently whistling smiley ).
Have to agree with all you say this week Suzanne, excepting, perhaps, the referencesto canings. I can think of a few tauregs who regularly give a one. or two fingered salute to the legal system. Now a sound caning might bring about a change in their ways. They might not feal weal good afterward. I seem to recollect a young Glaswegian, birched on The Isle of Man some years ago. He was never heard of again. Might be something to corporal punishment after all. It certainlynever did me anu harm at school and with the lack of options for teachers to keep control nowadays, perhaps the re-introduction of the tawse would be no bad thing, along with the added benefit that those children intent on learning might not have their opportunity to do so wrecked by the feral minority.
Who better to vote than 16 and 17 year olds. Any legislation is likely to affect them more than those of mature years. Another excellent idea eminating from Scotland. Westminster has, indeed.a lot to learn from Scotland. Shame they don’t have the inginuity to some up with such ideas themselves. Never mind, after independence we’ll be able to bring them, kicking and sqealing “Rule Brittania!” in to the 21st century.
Nice to see another Old Suzannah column from you and, as usual, one enabled for comments. It’s just a pity that you appear to take little notice of comments posted – I’m still waiting for your answer from you on the errors I pointed out in your last column. It also seems that my last post, although published at the time, has strangely disappeared, so here it is again –
“Well Suzanne, it seems it’s not too difficult to find out some truths surrounding this case as I can tell you that, since posting my last response, I have managed to discover that the nurse in question has been suspended from the register for six months – not “STRUCK OFF PERMANENTLY” as you had it – following a hearing by the NMC.
“This decision was apparently based on the panel’s finding that her, “actions and behaviour breached the standards expected of a registered nurse and are a serious departure from good practice.”
“Oh yes and you might also be interested to learn that it appears the ‘incident’ actually happened in May, 2010 – over two and a half years ago – so the matter has been under consideration for some time and the decision to suspend did not, therefore, have any element of your “IMMEDIATELY” about it.
“It also appears that she is currently considering an offer from Cameron Fife to make a legal challenge to this ruling. So the outcome to this story may well be that the NMC have made the wrong decision and she will be re-instated on the Register, an outcome I would certainly wish her well in achieving.
“Until then it would be good if journalists could stick to the known facts – that is the REAL facts not the made up ones which suit the story they’re trying to get their readers to believe.”
Brian, there is a very good explanation why your previously published post disappeared, and also why it may appear to you that Suzanne takes little ‘notice of comments posted’.
On Monday evening, due to an outage at our host, the server containing all data for the AV site went down. we were offline from then until yesterday afternoon, the site only becoming apparently stable last night.
Bearing in mind the apparent desperation to get an answer to your post, I’m surprised you did not notice that the site went ‘missing’ for 4 days.
Aware as I am of what Suzanne had planned for the days your comment was up, I am not sure she will have been aware of your post .. let alone found the time to reply or discuss making amendments to the post.
I hope this clears things up and in view of the circumstances, I hope you will be patient. As well as reading posts, we are busy catching up with work we have been unable to carry out for most of the last week.
Thanks Fred at Aberdeen Voice. I think I’ve been patient, but 5 days on from your response and zilch!
I would have thought that pointing out the error of reporting that the ROYAL COLLEGE OF NURSING had STRUCK a nurse OFF the nursing register PERMANENTLY and with some immediacy, when in fact it was the NURSING AND MIDWIFERY COUNCIL who SUSPENDED her from the nursing register FOR SIX MONTHS over two years after the event would have resulted in some sort of apology or retraction, but it seems Aberdeen Voice reporters aren’t too keen on owning up to errors of fact in their columns.
The golf course is build on flattened sand dunes, which are essentially shifting sands, facing the cold, unforgiving, treacherous North Sea. Trees do not survive when facing a continuous barrage of biting, furious salt spray. The sea and the dunes will reclaim its own, and it might not take too long. Look at Troon golf Course and St Andrew’s golf course, they are not surrounded by mansions by any means, but by typical Scottish flats and houses. Those fine builders respected the local residents. By trying to bury and surround houses in banks of soil, has created an eyesore beyound belief. Most golfers respect fairness and fair play.The dunes will return. The dunes have been there since time imemorial and they will come back, in time.
Terrible to leave the road in that mess. And leave residents stressed and unable to use a road they have been used to for so long. I only hope that all they have done wrong will catch up with them in the end.
From a few minutes ago they’ll be getting my £3 a month. Whisky and trees, two of my fav things.
Awesome as usual Suzanne!
People can be so impressive – here is the evidence.
When, in the name of all that is right and decent, are those awful tips of soil, placed around Susan Munro’s lovely sea side home, going to be removed? This will only attract vermin, and create health hazards of the worst type. When the rats arrive and breed, they will not head to the sea, but they will expand their colony up at Trump’s clubhouse, where there is ample food and shelter for them.
PS – Alicia Bruce will have a show of her Menie Estate photography at the Scottish Parliament show during ‘Scottish Environment Week’ in the members lobby. Aberdeen Voice will have further information on the show in due course; sadly, it will not be open to the public. Her work can also be seen in ‘You’ve Been Trumped.’
Articles like this remind me why i joined TUT…
Excellent honest reporting, it’s time Aberdeen Journals closed up shop, disgusting misuse of media powers once again from this Editor.
Well said!
Any newspaper in the land – given the state of print advertising revenues – would have bitten the Trump organisations’ hand off at the prospect of a full page advert. 2 people have met, fallen in love, got married. Surely some congratulations might have been more appropriate rather than another article criticising the local press. I also feel that the comments about financial gain of the people involved is very cynical, and quite crass to be frank.
The paper can choose their editorial policy – it is up to them what they choose to report & what to support It would be financial suicide in the current climate – indeed any climate – to jeopardise potential revenue through additional paper sales / ad revenues by standing against something potentially lucrative for them. If they felt that this was in the best interests of the area and – ultimately – sells papers and generates ad revenues then fair play to them. I worked at Aberdeen Journals when the story broke and it did sell a large number of extra papers – throughout the varying twists and turns of the story.
It should also be mentioned that Derek Tucker – former p&J editor – was also on the PCC, so perhaps Mr Bates is solely taking on the role which he had. And really, the PCC is a toothless brigade anyway, so they hardly merit a mention.
On a final note, it’s DC Thomson, not DC Thompson – apologies for being pedantic, but i’ve seen this mis spelled on a number of your articles.
Thanks for typo correction re. ‘DC Thomson’
Bob, no paper with integrity would have accepted that advert. Not one. It was in horrendously bad taste. Rather than blaming the “current climate” for every piece of selling-out, perhaps it would be better to change tact and try and attract more readers?
There is nothing crass about pointing out a conflict of interest. In fact it should have been done by the paper/editor it/himself, that way people would have more trust in the reporting.
[blockquote cite=”Bob Smith”]It would be financial suicide in the current climate – indeed any climate – to jeopardise potential revenue through additional paper sales / ad revenues by standing against something potentially lucrative for them[/blockquote]
Wow. That expresses perfectly why I don’t read the P&J. I can’t think of anything redeeming in that attitude.
“In fact it should have been done by the paper/editor it/himself, that way people would have more trust in the reporting.”
I couldn’t disagree more – this is their personal lives and should be set aside from their working lives. I’ve do doubt they are trying to attract more readers, but in the current marketplace, where digital is king (and the environment that Aberdeen Voice operates in), they have to look to maximise every single sales opportunity.Ultimately, it is a business.
Every penny is a prisoner in the printed media at the moment so they have to look at the top line (although evidently this isn’t making much difference giving the payoffs that are going on, but thats another story.)
Bob Smith seems to thjink that taking the ‘Devils Shilling’ is ok as long as it sells newspapers. shame on you
Not exactly. What I am saying is, if you are running a business that depends to a great extent on advertising revenues – be these print or digital – then you would be foolish to turn down the opportunity to take advantage of one off sales. Put yourself in this situation – if your business was of this nature and and an opportunity made itself available, would you turn it down on moral grounds and potentially jeopardise the employment of your members of staff? Or would you take the moral high ground and potentially damage your business? There is a big difference between “selling your soul” (i’m paraphrasing), and keeping your revenue / turnover / etc up.
Sorry if this isn’t a standpoint that you agree with, but this is reality.
I should like to point out to Suzanne and others that the views expressed by Bob Smith ( above ) are not those of Bob Smith “The Poetry Mannie”
Excellent article. These connections between people who side with the ‘elites’ are not uncommon. It is the old power corrupts adage. Many of these individuals get on in life by being ‘plucked’ from relative obscurity.
What is the threshold for refusing/questioning advertising revenue?
With many other Aberdonians, I stopped buying the Press and Journal and Evening Express, when they attacked the councillors who questioned Donald Trump’s development. And, I would love to see legal action and or an enquiry being made against the P&J and EE, failing that all of us have a duty to boycott these papers, discourage others from buying them and stop shopping and paying for services with those who advertise within their pages.
I have wondered why compaints about the Press and Journal have not been upheld by the Press Complaints Commission, now I know the reason why.
Ex D C Thomson employee Bob Smith sums up the myopic complacency of his ilk when he states that he considers Ms Kelly’s thoughtful and well referenced critique to be “crass” but thinks that bullying, intimidation, vitriolic personal abuse and character assassination, not to mention factually inaccurate reporting by journalists to be acceptable on the basis that it leads to additional revenue. Talk about missing the point!!!!
No, not missing the point. Nor myopic , though i do have a bit of a googly eye! Could you elaborate on my “ilk”? And, I also don’t recall stating that “bullying, intimidation, vitriolic personal abuse and character assassination, not to mention factually inaccurate reporting by journalists to be acceptable on the basis that it leads to additional revenue.” You have paraphrased this wholly incorrectly.
I don’t really think there is any need to elaborate Bob. Your praise for Dan’s contribution does that for me. I have read your comments again and believe that I have paraphrased them accurately. Should you really be unable to understand what you, yourself, have written then it may be time for you to think of alternative methods of expressing your views or, perhaps, of asking a friend to help you.
If you don’t want to elaborate, thats fine. I’m just interested as to what my “ilk” are like and why my views are myopic – you’ve decided to not answer my direct question. I like how you’ve singled out my praise for the only other contributor on this page who does not agree with anyone else. I understand exactly what I’ve written, but you have taken to misinterpreting this. I’m not advocating bullying, intimidation, etc. I’m impressed with your recommendation of looking at an alternative method of expressing my views – does this mean you feel that my contributions are not welcome on this partiuclar forum as they do not agree with yours? Perhaps I am paraphrasing this incorrectly 😉 (seems to be a common theme!). Your hilarious aside at the end about getting someone to help me was excellent as well and partiuclarly well thought out.
YAAAAAWN!!! For a place criticises the standard of news in the local press, this sure is a classic case of pot calling the kettle black. I’ve known they were seeing each other for ages. I thought it was common knowledge. The fact they’re married now is a bit more current, but how come you never revealed their relationship before? And if you did, how does is the fact they’re now married change anything?
Look, I this website carries hugely biased anti-Trump news and the P&J carries hugely biased news that’s pro-Trump. They point to surveys that claim the majority of the North-east public backs the development, you point to surveys that says the North-east public are against the development.
Who cares? Just as your website is entitled to take a stand on an issue it believes in, our Press are allowed to do exactly the same.
Believe it or not, A LOT of the public either support or don’t give two hoots what Donald Trump does. I’m sorry that hard for you to comprehend, but outside of you “lefties” – just as sweeping a generalisation as calling those in favour of the development “elites” – NO ONE CARES ANY MORE! It’s built! The local press like the idea of the course. Whether that’s for its own selfish reasons or because it believes the public in general also support it, WE WILL NEVER KNOW.
The idea of wishing the newspaper be prosecuted for holding views you don’t agree with is such a right wing, bordering on Nazi mindset, is frankly bizarre and an embarrassment to your cause.
#Dan –“No one cares any more” Ye wint tae git oot mair afen min. Try tellin the Forbes, Milne and Munro faimilies aat naebody cares onymair The support they git in their fecht agin the
hassle an intimidation they still experience is conseederable. Its only the local paper scribes an Trumpie’s “forelock touchin serfs” that wint fowk tae think naebody cares onymair. I bliddy care an I ken a helluva lot mair fowk faa care. O aye an a’m nae a ” leftie” jist a mannie faa’s bin aroon fer a fyow decades an faa cares aboot democracy. Somethin fit his bin missin in N.E Scotland fer a fair fylie.
“The Poetry Mannie”
Hear hear!
i meant to say the hear hear was for Dan’s comment.
Very Interesting.
Hope the travellers set up camp at or very close to the trump course when its an important game on.
i guess that malone woman must be good at something lol
Dan, Dan, Dan, if you don’t like what is printed in AV, why do you read it? Perhaps you are yet another lackey of thatched heid?
I care a lot about this whole saga. It is shocking from start to finish and there should have been an independent inquiry into Trump, ACC, Grampian Police, Aberdeen Journals and the Scottish governments handling of this affair.
When the little man is bullied by some rich oxygen thief like Trump and the aforementioned sit idly by and ignore, or in some cases, help, we have major issues.
Iggy: “Dan, Dan, Dan, if you don’t like what is printed in AV, why do you read it?”
The same goes for you and the P&J. Why don’t YOU stop reading it? I presume you’re going to come back and say “But I already have stopped reading it” – in which case I don’t consider you a reliable person to be calling for an inquiry into its handling of the affair, given you haven’t even been reading the paper and therefore have no way of knowing what it’s being doing.
It’s like complaining about a TV show and then admitting you haven’t actually watched it.
Poetry mannie:
When I said “nobody cares” of course I didn’t mean the people whose homes were threatened by the course. They have every right to hate what he’s done. I just meant, in the grand scheme of things, most of the people of the North-east would rather worry about more important things than a stupid golf course, which has already been built.
You forgot to put in your article that Sarahs father Councillor Tom Malone gave away the bride and that he has also been sitting on the committee regarding the windfarm project, but they say there is no conflict of interest as he doesn’t work for Trump, no he doesn’t but his daughter does.
Hello Minime – thanks indeed. Have also looked at his register of interests, doesn’t say anything about a family interest in this massive development/environmental problem. Of course, the rules don’t say you have to disclose interests related to an immediate family member (but some feel ethically it would be better to do so). Don’t worry though, we’re having a good look at voting / other involvements. A very valid point indeed. PS – I believe the mother is also involved with Aberdeenshire Council.
Thta is interesting. Come on Aberdeen Voice, you might be ahead as far as reporting on a wedding is concerned, but you appear to be falling behind a Joe Punter select.
Minime is a bit off track as well. Tom malone might sit on a windfarm committee, but he has refused a evry application so far. http://www.cawt.co.uk/index.php?page=voting-records
Dear Gary thanks very much; I’ll certainly be looking into whether or not Tom Malone, whose daughter’s employer is against wind farms, has refused every application so far – that would be extremely interesting. Cheers!
I am not off track Gary, yes look at his voting and that of his cronies Cllrs Gardiner & Buchan suprise they will vote the same as him. He should not be allowed to sit on any committee that has dealings with Mr Trump there is a conflict of interests indirect or not. Yes I believe his wife does work for the council in housings or social work.
It’s sad when potentially what was almost a good debate turns into a slagging match really. No wonder people don’t post on forums/fora (whichever is correct) as often as they used to, because god forbid your view doesn’t match someone elses.
If anyone needs unequivocal evidence of the P&J acting as a mouthpiece for Trump’s lies, look no further than their front page spread of 3rd November 2010. Here they published Trump’s vitriolic outburst against Mollie Forbes, calling her home ‘a trailer’, ‘an eyesore’ and ‘an environmental hazard’, and calling for it to be demolished. To publish this unprovoked and completely unfounded personal attack on a pensioner’s home, without challenge and without a shred of evidence or a grain of truth, was a disgraceful attempt to misuse a newspaper’s influence, to mis-inform their readers, and a great discredit to journalism. The P&J was once a fine newspaper. Sadly, with the coming of Trump, it sold its soul to the devil and lost all credibility.
It should also be pointed out that that P&J article was published long before Bates was editor.
And why can’t we have some restrained, non-hyperbolic debate here? The P&J “sold its soul to the devil”?! You people need to calm down. As I said earlier – it’s only a golf course.
Some people were for it, some people were against it. That’s the same with every planning issue. Nobody has sold their soul to the devil. Saying stuff like that undermines your argument and makes you sound like a reactionary loon.
Just for accuracy’s sake, the vote to turn down the application took place in late November 2007, not 2009 as written.
I’ve just done a search on the Press and Journal’s online wedding announcement section, nothing has come up for “Bates” or “Malone”, if the editior did not want to announce this in his own paper, is that not a bit strange?
Also, as I refuse to buy the above mentioned tabloid rag, can someone tell me please if there was even an article about the wedding within it.
Sean.
As faar as a ken the answer is no
“The Poetry Mannie”
There is always and has always been opposition to things. We had tremendous opposition to the building of canals, railways with land owners refusing to sell their land so huge extra costs were incurred a too expensive parliament ,by -passes, Union street the Marischal college. I could go on but you get the drift. Life is too short for this petty provincial squabble, to all concerned in the hot air comments grow up it’s not important get over it things will never be as we would wish them to be.
by far the best comment made on this page to date. Well said.
#History repeat so itself”
“Life is too short for this petty provincial squabble” —–If it wis jist a petty provincial squabble fit wye did thon mannie John Swinney stick his beak in and declare the development wis o national importance? An I dinna think Trumpie himsel thinks it a petty provincial squabble fin he keeps haein a go at “Wee Eck” ower the biggin o a wind fairm near his placie Bit fit IS at stake here is democracy an the richt o fowk tae lead their lives as they see fit withoot haein tae pit up wi aa the harassment an intimidation, the Menie faimilies hiv tae pit up wi.
A’m an avid gowfer, bit the wye aathing wis processed bi the local cooncil an the Scottish Government efter the “EE” managed tae instigate the seckin o Martin Ford fair stuck in ma craw. Aa fer the sake o protectin the future advertisin revenue they thocht micht cum their wye fae The Donald and his local business cronies Democracy rules in the N.E?
Dinna mak me bliddy laach!!!! Fit rules in the N.E nooadays is foo muckle siller can be made at the expense o some ither puir bugger.
The Poetry Mannie
A.V. should run classes on journalism, most honest reporting i have read in years. D.C.T. staff should look, learn and resign. Well done the staff.
Another vibrant and dynamic week perhaps, but I still await a response to my comments on the significant errors of fact in Old Susannah 109, which were published at the end of both that column and Old Susannah 110 (or would that not be vibrant and dynamic enough?)
Brian / anyone who’s not sure what your post refers to: In OS No. 109 200 words were devoted to Nurse Nicola Cheyne, the woman who was sacked and who is fighting to get her registration back. The same week, a newspaper reported that a convicted murderer could possibly be allowed to stay in the nursing profession. (See OS No. 109 for the 200 words I devoted to the subject) The juxtaposition of these two nurse stories appeared in local media and were a popular topic of discussion at the time; this is where my opinion came from. I am indebted to Brian for first pointing out an error (my reference to ‘Royal College of Nurses’ should have of course been ‘Nursing’). Brian then kindly posted again, and in great detail claimed I have made’significant errors of fact’. I thought I was simplifying and summarising in the quest for brevity.
I’m always happy to correct errors, but with Brian’s corrections already posted, I saw no need to beat a dead horse and turn it into burgers and lasagne. I had assumed that losing registration as a nurse was in some way the equivalent of being struck off, and I had also thought this had happened immediately (the initial articles did not say anything about the case being old). http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/sacked-nurse-fights-to-win-back-registration.html I don’t agree these are gross factual errors, sorry.
This column is a diary and a satirical round-up of topical issues with observations. While accuracy is the goal (as well as sarcasm and satire), errors do happen. The comments Brian posted serve exactly the way for instance Private Eye’s letter page serves – to let the public make any comments and corrections which they feel Private Eye articles deserve. The Eye staff hardly ever feel the need to comment further to published letters. Mostly, the PE staff seem to feel the need with getting on with the next issue, and other articles/columns. As do I.
I am happy to bow to Brian’s detailed knowledge; please do read his corrections if you are interested, and weigh my 200 words and the point I was making with them. The point seems to still remain valid.
Most people who’ve expressed an opinion to me think is the main issue, not whether ‘sacked’ or ‘struck off’ or ‘suspended’ or the time frame are the relevant points: 1. Murderer and apparent liar? RCN needs to think about whether such a person is a fit nurse. 2. Nurse who took an unaccompanied child with her and was later thanked by the father for her actions, even if they were not to the letter of what she was expected to do? RCN has taken away her registration (or whatever the exact correct term is) and she was sacked from her job. Aside from my lack of nursing knowledge, which I think is forgivable given the media coverage; the issue under examination is this rather disturbing unfairness.
Brian, if you were led into thinking that I am in some Aberdeen Voice office somewhere, working away full-time writing and researching, and am able 24/7 to issue corrections on issues which are already corrected by comments posted(and which do not in any way alter the substance of the point I’m making in a diary column), you’d be wrong. In fact I try not to comment on these pages at all; I believe they are primarily meant for reaction and discussion by readers. You would be more than welcome to write a piece on this nursing case or indeed any other issue you wish; we’ll get it published.
To sum up – take Brian’s comments over mine as to the ins and outs of Cheyne’s suspension and how the RCN works. Take my observation as to the fairness of the big picture as being what the column is addressing. Hope this helps; for me, alas, this is the end of this matter. Tally Ho! – OS
That’s me well and truly told then. My own fault I suppose for having the temerity to even suggest that the queen of the Aberdeen Voice might have got some facts wrong in the satirical column which she appears to suggest ranks with those found in Private Eye. (Please excuse me while I stifle a guffaw!)
I would say, however, that like Old Susannah I am not a nurse and, as a result, do not have ‘detailed knowledge’ of the subject. On the other hand, unlike Old Susannah, I managed to unearth the facts relating to this case by doing a wee bit of research.
(RESEARCH: noun – “diligent and systematic inquiry, or investigation, into a subject in order to discover, or revise, facts, theories, applications etc,” – you know, the kind of thing we expect competent journalists do.)
Oh yes and we did get the point of your comparison Susannah – the only problem was that you either failed to do your homework or chose to misrepresent the details of one of the cases in order for it to fit your line of reasoning.
But, as I’m sure you’ve said many times about P&J articles you disagree with, why let the facts spoil a good story!
Tullos Hill is not the only location where deer are being slaughtered unnecesssarily. On 4 occassions in as many weeks, deer have been killed at the Back o’ Bennachie. It has been done by Forestry Commission Scotland (FCS) rangers under cover of darkness. They drive along the logging roads using high powered spotlights to find the deer before shooting them. The deer are gutted where they fall and the entrails left there to be found by any passing dogs – the area is very popular with dog walkers. As with Tullos Hill., no warning signs have ever been posted at the entrances to the forest. to let people know that guns are being fired in a public place.
very valid points, and goodness knows why previously stable deer populations are now being targeted (literally) and cruel methods of population controls (if needed at all for creatures which live 6-7 years on average) are pushed by the SNH (in my opinion). I believe there were though at one time some farily clear direct signs used at Bennachie, as opposed to ambiguous signs at Tullos. In summary, very happy to see this petition, and have signed. Please do think about the issues, and if you agree, please sign and share
The youth unemployment situation is disasterous. With advances in technology, jobs of yore – bus conductors, railway firemen etc – are no longer with us. For the youth of today, who have no educational qualifications, the situation is dire. College funding cuts compound matters (courtesy of Westminster cuts). Most teens and twenties want to work. Living on benefits is no easy matter and not all have Bank of Mum and Dad to fall back on. The changes to the benefits system, whereby if you can breathe, you can work (ATOS) are less than helpfull also. Then we come to the illustrious bedroom tax. Teens and twenties are highly sociable, in the main, but should they really be required to live ten to a room to suffice the whims of the millionaires in residence at Westminster? All in all, I feel sorry for our youth. Damned and stigmatised – in my view unfairly -by many in society, they are between a rock and a hard place.
Naively, I thought the press were there to report in an unbiased way on issues. Giving both sides of any story is surely the best way to inform the public? In all honesty, the P&J/Evening Express have not a got a good track record on this. Taking just two issues, The Union Terrace Garden project and Trumps golf course are glaring examples of biased reporting. Well said Suzanne.
The concept of getting students/young people to work for free via ‘internships’ seems to me like pure exploitation as well. The American concept of ‘workfare’ which seems to be creeping in is even worse. Let’s hope some sensible solutions can be found – very quickly
To mention Samuel Pepys, Julie Burchill, and ‘even’ the Evening Express’s Cat Cubie in the same breathe as yourself is rather hilarious, Ms Kelly. Because ‘even’ Ms Cubie operates on a considerably higher journalistic plane than yourself. Unfortunately, what you describe as ‘simplifying and summarising’ often leads to amateurish exaggeration and distortion that might suit your own particular agenda but can be very misleading to the reader. I refer in particular to the rather nasty innuendo you insinuated against the Wood Family Trust in regard to its partnership with ACC in an educational project. How often are you going to use the part-time nature of your work with AV as an excuse for getting your facts wrong? Perhaps if you apologised when you did, and spent more time establishing the facts than simply churning out as many words as possible each week, then who knows where that might take you?
Well said. A friend has told me that even Aberdeen Journals have a strict policy that doesnt allow journalists to advertise company’s they have shares in.
I fear for the future of British satirical comedy. Where’s the 21st century Monty Python Bicycle Repair Man sketch going to come from if shops can’t find mechanics?
Aberdeen Voice has never been frightened to tackle/take on issues which the local press really should. While Suzanne may make the odd error, she expresses the opinions of many in the city and environs whose voices would otherwise go unheard
Yes, some of the issues may be contentious, but still warrant discussion and Aberdeen Voice serves that platform well, in my humble opinion.
Any legislation promoting equality and fairness is to be welcomed. Does it really matter – excepting to those of fervent religious beliefs – what sexuality a loving couple hold? Major churches ar in decline, which is why so many in Aberdeen are now night clubs or housing. Does the man in the street really care about his issue? Live and let live I say.
Oops, forgot to say. A wee bit of research would also have shown that the NMC is very keen to have the nurse who Susannah describes as a ‘murderer and apparent liar’ struck off the nursing register (and it seems likely that this will happen later this month) but the brother of the wife he was convicted of murdering is quoted as saying “This seems a waste of money and resources to continually have hearings and I am surprised to find out they are ongoing – it is incredible” – see http://local.stv.tv/aberdeen/news/210150-nmc-makes-fresh-bid-to-strike-off-convicted-killer-malcolm-webster/
Well written piece Suzanne. Apart from the A.V. the P&J/E.E are the only journals that provide local news.
Their biased reporting on both the Trump project and the City Gardens project was appalling. Many years ago they had a balanced policy on reporting which gained them respect but now all that has gone. I complained to the PCC about this but got nowhere, now I know why. I feel sorry for the 40+ printing employees who will be made redundant soon as they are moving their printing operations to Dundee. I stopped buying the P & J after the Trump project reporting and will do likewise to the E.E shortly. The A V and the neighbor’s bin will be my local news supply!
The PCC is a hopeless, pointless organisation regardless of who is on it – look at what self regulation did to the NOTW and every other paper involved in the phone hacking scandal. I actually cancelled my EE delivery after i got a letter saying it was going up to £13 a month. I get The Times ipad edition for £8.50 a month, and the difference is chalk and cheese.
According to this article, “Vicky Pryce … has admitted perverting the course of justice by taking the blame,” yet yesterdays Guardian reported, “Pryce, 60, an economist, DENIES perverting the course of justice by taking her husband’s penalty points after his speeding offence 10 years ago, on the ground of marital coercion” – http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/08/vicky-pryce-chris-huhne-coercion
I wonder who is correct.
Tam, you are technically correct. article amended.
‘Technically’ nothing.
The national press has been quite clear on this matter eg yesterdays Scotsman – “Ms Pryce DENIES perverting the course of justice and claims Huhne bullied her into taking his speeding points in 2003.”
Admit it, Old Susannahs statement that “Vicky Pryce … has ADMITTED perverting the course of justice …” just means shes got it wrong again!
The statement, written before the national press articles you refer to, implied that by accepting the points in place of Mr Huhne, that Vicky Pryce did indeed pervert the course of justice.
Looking at the statement in light of your comments, it is plain that this is not how most folks would read the statement, therefore, as I stated, you are technically, or otherwise, correct.
The post has been amended. Surely this is a clear admission/confirmation that Suzanne Kelly’s statement, although initially viewed as correct, is now considered to be WRONG.
So there is no dispute really, and we are grateful for your input which has resulted in the statement in question now being correct.
Hello Tam, thanks for your in-depth and continuing interest in this point of law. It would be interesting to know who you are, and why this precise issue is so important to you; if you are a legal professional, I’m happy to bow to your superior knowledge. But since you don’t seem to be satisfied, one valid interpretation of the plea she entered is this: she pleaded not guilty by marital coercion – ie admitting she did pervert the course of justice, and that the offense was indeed committed – but portraying herself as a person with no-free will bound by her controlling husband.
If I were writing a legal journal, this might be of some interest to the readers. But again, this is a satirical column and not a legal paper. All the best
Ms Kelly,
Another hilarious reply – trying to cast sarcastic aspersions against those you perceive as opponents.
You claim to write a satirical journal, yet don’t recognise there is a line between satire and mudslinging, a line you cross frequently without too much regard for hard facts.
It would be interesting to know who Tam is, you say? Why would it be interesting?
Is it because you would like to try and dig up some dirt on his Facebook profile, Ms Kelly?
( *** Post moderated as lightly as possible in order that the whole is not overtly defamatory *** )
Let me see if I can simplify this for you.
In early 2011 Ms Pryce told the political editor of the Sunday Times that 8 years earlier she had “consented” to take speeding points on her licence in order that her husband of the time could avoid a driving ban.
When this story was published both she and her ex husband (Chris Huhne) were charged with perverting the course of justice.
When Huhne appeared in court he pleaded guilty to the charges – in other words he admitted that he perverted the course of justice – and currently awaits sentencing.
However when Ms Pryce appeared in court she pleaded not guilty to the charge of perverting the course of justice – in other words she DENIED that she perverted the course of justice – and her case continues.
To sum up – Ms Pryce has admitted taking speeding points for her ex-husband, but denies the charge that she perverted the course of justice. (Had she admitted to perverting the course of justice the case would over and she would be awaiting sentencing.)
So while the amended statement in your article that she “has been charged with perverting the course of justice” is 100% correct, your original statement that “she has admitted perverting the course of justice by taking the blame” completely misrepresents the situation and is wrong.
Hope this helps. For me, alas, this is the end of this matter. Tally Ho!
I might add, Ms Kelly, that whether writing for a legal journal or a satirical column, one’s readers have a right to expect accuracy. Your attitude suggests otherwise.
I have supported Suzanne Kelly and her mammoth efforts since the start, although not physically able to take part in outside activities. I am so glad that you have taken up the cudgels to expose this thoughtless and expensive under-cover destruction of all the deer and other wildlife and surrounding natural environment and I support all your efforts to halt this on-going and needless destruction which still goes ahead elsewhere as well. It is diabolical that this carnage continues to be carried out despite every protest by the public leaving in its wake scenes of ravaged once beautiful natural habitat. We just have to continue to do all we can do to protect our beautiful and unique Scottish natural heritage. I’m glad to sign the petition.
When are we going to get Councillors and Member of the Scottish Parliament who are willing to tell planning officers to enforce the law?
I’ve noticed very little coverage in the local press, especially in on-line editions, about the planning application for the 2nd course.
Many thanks Alan for taking out a membership with Trees for Life – I’m very grateful for your support.
With best wishes,
Alan Watson Featherstone, Executive Director, Trees for Life
Would you like to tell me on what grounds my last post was removed, please?
(*** Post included same defamatory statement as was previously moderated. Also contained inaccuracies and info which had been given privately. Furthermore, the team took the view that the post was personalised in terms not only of who you wished to comment on, but who you were addressing, and had no place in the comments section, particularly as you had been allowed to make your original point with very little moderation, and that you were no longer discussing the article the comments box was opened to accomodate. The decision was taken to treat the post in the same way as an article. See FAQs on our home page. ***)
Although I trained in journalism law, I’m afraid you have never made it clear what part of my post you consider defamatory. Please clarify.
(***This will be obvious from the few changes which were made in the amended comment. This matter is now closed***)
Persepolis is very good. That’s all.
Suppose its horses for courses really. The economics of feeding the masses started when the railways, shipping and refrigeration allowed a profit for the entrepreneurs of the 19th Century.
The Argentine meat trade fed the workers of the UK while the business folk made a few pounds. Andrew Carnegie made the steel while his companies shipped the goods. Ok, we have had some issues like Fray Bento’s pies and that Thatcher lady plus a war or two.
But hey …the upside may just be the payback from those brilliant folk who made things happen to provide libraries, roads, clean water, social services and housing.
There are always things we could do better and that is the nature of social change.
The supermarkets popularity will ebb and wane of course but that’s another story.
In days of yore, grandparents were valued. When they reached an age where they needed assistance, this was provided by their offspring. My late mother cared for my paternal grandmother for some fourteen years until her decline in health required hospitalisation. Nowadays, it seems many can’t wait to get granny, or grandad in to some kind of care, of which they will be required to play minimal part. Yes, the times they are a changing, and not always for the good it seems.
Hit a few nails on the head this week Suzanne. Never fear, the over paid beaurocrats in Brussels and Strasbourg will be busily creating more beaurocracy to resolve the issue, ably assisted by the multitude of equally over paid MEPs who will, no doubt, be able to justify even more dubious expenses (fly Ryanair, get paid BA – sign in and sod off etc). I’m sure they’ll get to the bottom of how cows can become horses as they progress through the food procesing chain.
Thank you for dedicating this to my late Uncle Bill. Regret I only learned of his death today through your article. He was a great campaigner and will be fondly remembered.
Andy Knight
Lightwater, Surrey.
You won’t but I expect this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Trumps Vice President Sarah Malone is now married to Damien Bates the editor of the P&J
PS – The latest issue of Private Eye Magazine, No. 1334, covers this story on Page 7.
Tuesday is the 5th of March. Which is it – Tues 5th or Wed 6th?
(*** well spotted Alex. It is on Tues 5th – Article amended ***)
“Trees for Life” is an admirable conservation body and I wish them all the best, but please could they make it clear that they have nothing to do with Aberdeen City’s lamentable and disasterous “A Tree for Every Citizen” which not only resulted in the horrific and secretive slaughter of a sustainable group of deer at Tullos Hill but caused in its wake the wholesale destruction of a wonderful natural area of rare plants & wild flowers, small animals and birds in what is now an area of desolation. When this all came to light there were massive protests from Aberdeen Citizens who certainly didn’t want “A Tree for Life” in their names at such a cost to wild life (both financial and otherwise.) Many national conservations bodies also added their protests. “Trees for Life” should make it abundantly clear that they had nothing to do with this debacle.
There is no doubt of Prof Ritchies non independence. He appeared at the PLI in support and paid for by Trump. And MEMG was always advisory and toothless which is why SNH were directed to take part- they didn’t want to lend it credibility
Yes. toothless, like many other organisations supposed to act in the public interest. Not surprising, without teeth, there will be an awful lot of sucking going on.
“I am unable to confirm reports that burrowing animals were gassed in order to create the course and maintain its smooth contours, but this is the suspicion of some of my sources”
Wonderful journalism there. When were there “reports” of burrowing animals being gassed? I haven’t heard any “reports”. If you mean that anti-Trump folk think animals were gassed, that’s not the same as a “report”.
Wouldn’t it have been more accurate to say: “Opponents of Trump believe that burrowing animals were gassed in order to create the course, however any official with knowledge of the development has denied this is the case.” (I’m presuming you spoke to SEPA, the council etc, who would be able to tell you categorically whether burrowing animals were gassed or not)
The “this is the suspicion of some of my sources” line adds a level of mystery to the story that isn’t required. It’s clear that your sources are the oppenents, so why not just say that intead of wrapping in in this quasi-Deep Throat stylings.
The stuff that you got about the fairways being dyed is genuinely interesting and I didn’t know they were doing that, but you lose credibility when you include hyperbolic journo-speak to try to make the issue sound more mysterious or dastardly than it really is.
Hello Dan, Thanks for your comments.
The truth is that there are people who gave me information and observations on this issue and are reasonably certain extermination took place, but who are wary of going on record officially; the Trump Organisation can seem, shall we say, just a touch litigious, and I don’t blame sources for not wanting to say anything that could get them into trouble. Sorry if it sounds cloak and dagger to you, but I hope you can understand the language needs to be protective. To me it’s just trying to let people know that animals are often killed when golf courses are set up – not everyone appreciates that – and that the belief is this happened here, too. The Trump Organisation is welcome to comment on this page and assure us that no animals were killed to make their course.
If the Council and MEMAG ever do bother to come back to me (I’ve waited over a month for MEMAG, and well over the five days in which Aberdeenshire Planning are supposed to get back to someone), maybe I can get more information on what happened to the animals that would have been living where we now have this course, and the dozens of other questions I’ve put to people.
Cheers, Suzanne
Hi Suzanne,
I understand that Trump is litigious, but saying “I am unable to confirm reports that burrowing animals were gassed in order to create the course and maintain its smooth contours, but this is the suspicion of some of my sources” is still libellous if untrue.
If I said: “I am unable to confirm reports that Suzanne Kelly murders dogs for fun, but this is the suspicion of some of my sources” you could still sue me for libel. It’s your job as reporter to prove the facts of your story, not repeat allegations that may or may not be true.
Your sources may now be safe from Trump’s lawyers, but you have repeated the libel in print.
The list of things the Trump lot are doing that they shouldn’t be, or not doing as they should be, gets longer by the minute. One thing that has sneaked in under the radar is the planting of gorse (whin) plants at the southern end of the first golf course where, heaven forbid, ordinary folk might walk up from the beach and get close to one of the greens. Some might see it as trying to grow a windbreak from the fierce winds coming off the sea during storms, but that is not the reason. The gorse has been planted along pathways, long used by walkers, in a blatant attempt to keep people well away from the golf course.
There are paths all over the dunes, and there have been certainly for as long as anyone can remember. These narrow paths confine people to a small area of the dunes, but once paths have been made impassable more damage to the vegetation is inevitable. What these plantings of gorse will mean is that people will still walk the area, legally under Scotland’s right to roam legislation, but that they will risk trampling marram grass and other plants.
TIGLS could find that instead of keeping folk away from their precious golf course, they risk causing themselves untold problems once the gorse bushes grow, flower and seed. Gorse seeds are dispersed by the seed pods bursting open and ejecting the seeds – imagine what will happen when these seeds are blown inland by the prevailing wind. Before long the whole area will be covered in gorse. But that is not our problem.
What we should do is to continue walking these paths where we can and if we come across gorse, walk round it. And if we really feel strongly about it we can contact the Ramblers Association, The Scottish Rights of Way and Access Society, and the Access Officer of the Aberdeenshire Local Outdoor Access Forum and complain. Meanwhile, enjoy the dunes and your walk!
Hi
Your article is funny but unfortunately does not help to reduce unwanted phone calls.
Result is very disappointing.
If you are going to promote a Citizen Journalism you should do more research before writing a piece. Especially when you have a platform to reach a wider audience.
What about that for a start?
http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2013/feb/16/nuisance-phone-calls
I am sorry for my grammar but english isn’t my first language.
I am off to sharpen my swan knifes, good luck!
Thanks for your comments Victor.
As this piece was written to offer others some humorous suggestions on how to have a bit of fun with rogue callers rather than to blaze any kind of campaigning trail, I’m glad to note that you found it funny.
Brilliant poem as always Bob, your fondness, warmth for the radio comes across. Like many other people I love the radio too, it held a special place for people in the war years and I think this is something I inherited from my grandmother. As I live on my own I like Radio 4 and the World Service, and at night when trying to sleep, I like to have the softness of Radio 3 by my bed. I just wish my DAB radio didn’t go through so many batteries.
Very, very well written article, D C Thompson’s papers don’t hold a candle to Aberdeen Voice.
I get badly pestered with nuisance phone calls, one time a sales person kept me on the phone for an hour trying to get me to part with £30 direct debit a month to join a club, where they will negotiate a discount for you when you buy an item. The man was hilariously stupid, it’s amazing the patter they come out with.
Sorry, I’m making a lot of comments in this Friday’s edition. Anyways, I knew a man who went on retreat to the seminary (as some lay members like to do) and he definitely came back with a few stories.
I havn’t yet tried this one but it may work. Let the caller deliver the sales message then ask them in a soft suggestive tone “what are you wearing?”.
Sounds good Duncan and definitely worth a try.
If anyone wants to see how far the fairways are from the shore, all is revealed on Bing maps.
About 21m form the closest approach of the fairway to the beach seems about right at the southern end of the development.
http://binged.it/WlQB7D
Regarding the water with rusty brown colour with an oily sheen, I can comment that this is not pollution but a natural phenomenon caused by the bacterium Leptothrix discophora acting on iron in the water. It is well known for forming oily-looking films and is a perfectly harmless.
Well if the seven councilors who rejected the original proposal were called ‘traitors’ on the fron t page by this disgusting sell-out rag what does this make them?
It is only fair the P&J is called what she really is and always has been, a vile money grabbing whore.
Why Aberdonians continue to support this grotesque foreign owned company I will never know. Time and time again it has been shown to be in the pocket of any lowlife willing to flash them a little cash.
Prostitute & Journal would be a much more accurate name. Shameful rag.
Hardly well written when it begins by talking about the “green shots of economic recovery”. I think the author means shoots, actually. Surprising such a glaring error hasn’t been picked up…
( *** In a perfect world full of perfect people, such glaring errors wouldn’t stand a chance! In such a world tho, I’m not sure there would be much to write about … Thanks for pointing it out, … well spooted 🙂 …text now amended – Moderator *** )
Many of our genesis’s were dyslexic i.e. Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci – so I expect they made some spelling mistakes too. I expect they also had ********* like “The Minger” in their time as well.
( *** Post moderated *** )
FYI – there are 7,399 signatures as at 4pm 6 March 2013.
Nice one Duncan! You put me in mind of my column from July last year – https://aberdeenvoice.com/2012/07/old-susannah-no-85-brigadoon-braveheart-brave-balmedie/ – like what you did with Oor Wullie!
Thanks, he’s a local Inverurie Wullie who was seemingly stolen then returned after no ransom was paid. Am guessing his behaviour pissed off the kidnappers!
What a surprise?!! Trump’s golf course has holes! I wish a wealthy Scot could build a golf course next to one of Trump’s prized houses (and break down his fence, charge him for it, as well as cut off his water and electrics.)
Excellent work Suzanne. And its so true what you say about “rose tinted glasses”. The public still believe in Trump’s promises. But, its not all their fault really as the P&J and EE newspapers have a big part in this too. Along with the local councillors & government.
Great to know there are people with sufficient skills and resilience who will continue to strive to expose the tragicomedy of Menie. Well done and good luck!
Suzanne, a hate tae be picky aboot an itherwise affa braw report bit I aye thocht it wis the “EE” fit cairry’t the “Traitors” front page heidline
Indeed it was the Evening Express – thanks Bob – will take opportunity to correct as soon as I can (Note – both are part of Aberdeen Journals Ltd, both had Mr Bates at the helm at one time or another) . Thanks to others who have pointed out that one or two links referenced have changed since the time of writing as well.
I have to wonder if any of those who backed this scheme have looked at Trump’s track record. How many bankruptcies? How many unfinished projects?
Is there an update on this story? I used to play the compton with the organ society every saturday and was really sad to hear the Capital is being renovated once again and not keeping this great organ on show. Unfortunately I don’t live in Aberdeen any more but wanted to know what will happen to the organ and bench
Good piece.
The beauty of the worldwide web is that it is open source and therefore it links the creative potential of all contributors were as those that attempt to regulate it rely on a smaller pool of minds so they will never assume ‘control’.
The web is a hotel of infinite rooms were the individual can source and pursue whatever takes their fancy some of which may be considered unsavoury and objectionable. This however is a dynamic and self regulating process and depending on your view of human nature the shit will always surface or the collective voice of humanity will triumph.
Some contributors are still at the infant stage playing with their poo whilst others have reached adolescence and are kicking against everything and many are now in productive adulthood educating and agitating in equal measure.
The adolescent me directs you to Tim Minchin’s ‘Pope Song’ as the best commentary on the Catholic Church.
I like Tim Minchin, why can’t we have more of him.
I think the message is that you can certainly have folk like Tim Minchin or indeed Billy Connolly. They are public figures and have a following of sorts.
Both however seem to be treading a thin line at the moment as far as religious and ethnic tolerence are concered in my view.
I often think of the Balkans and Northern Ireland in this context since once the line is crossed there may be no easy way back.It would be a shame to lose net freedom because of the bigotry of a few.
I suppose the Tim Minchin song falls into both the humerous and nasty camps in equal measure.
Thank goodness you are back Suzanne!! Two weeks without a snigger or belly-laugh was too much
What is the campaigning Press & Journal saying on this matter?
Bunds R Cool says former X Factor contestant .
Bugger aa is probably the answer tae yer question Bob
“It was wearing a bright pink blouse (which was interesting, as the rest of us needed coats, hats and gloves). She must have been cold, but a little suffering is the price of beauty.”
Hmmm…
“From now on instead of investigating council waste, issues at the Menie Estate and abuses of office, I can start writing about who’s wearing what, what new beauty queens have been crowned, and how thin or fat they are.”
So how fat was she? I hope you’re backing this evidence up with a long-lense photo?
As a member of The Woodland Trust I thoroughly approve of all the work being carried out by “Trees for Life” organisation
Press & Journal? is that a tongue in cheek question? please tell me it is but i imagine if they are saying anything it would be, “Its great being editor and being married to Donald Trumps Vice President of the TIGLS”
correction: Aberdeenshire Council informs me that Gordon Lyon is not retired after all. Apologies for any confusion. I shall write to him, asking for clarification of an email he sent me in May of last year, in which he indicates the bunds I described near the Munro home are temporary. More later.
Not like you to get your facts wrong, is it?
Is that a picture of “it” wearing a bright pink blouse on the Time To Help article? Gads. And that’s a helluva way for one woman to refer to another. “It.” Pretty crap, really.
Just received: An Aberdeenshire Council spokesman said: “The retrospective application relates to works that have already been undertaken on site.
“As part of the assessment of the application, the planning service identified that a small section of land where works were undertaken was not included in the document. The applicant was approached for the additional information and this has been available for viewing in the planning office since it was submitted in September 2012.
“The information was not considered to have altered the application significantly given the works had already taken place, and as such re-notification was considered to be unnecessary.
“We accept that the additional information could have been made available digitally at an earlier stage in the process. However, as consultation was ongoing at the time and further amendments were possible, the submission to the website was delayed.
“The application is to be considered by the Formartine Area Committee at its meeting on Tuesday (Tue, Mar 26).”
TRANSLATION:
“We at Aberdeenshire Council couldn’t give a flying caber about protecting either our natural heritage or the interests of our local communities. If that nice Dr Trump has already built those bunds, then that’s just fine by us! The rubber stamp for next Tuesday’s meeting of the Formartine Area Committee has already been inked and, as usual, we shall be dismissing all objections without any consideration.”
That sounds about right, Jerry. Will they surprise us by doing something different?
Ma local MP is Gordon (the unelected) Broon,so whit is the point of mailin thon dunderheid?
Hello Andrew, Pa Broon is now no longer pal to The Donald, and I’m sure he’ll be happy to hear from constituents who’ve had their fill of the World’s Greatest Golfcourse. Can’t hurt to write
Brilliant
I hate the Press & Journal and the EE, there should be an organised boycott or campaign against them.
The excuse by Aberdeenshire Council is just nonsense.
The Caledonian Forrest was largely destroyed by human deforestation. I love forrests but I also love deer, and I believe Trees for Life and The Woodland Trust advocate the (unnecessary) killing of deer.
Having visited other British cities, I think Aberdeen is the dirtiest (in more senses than one).
So, have we now totally abandoned the pretence that Ms Kelly’s a journalist, and we are accepting instead a thousand word ramble on whatever bugs her over the course of a fortnight or so?! And, it’s hardly insightful or cutting-edge to refer to other human beings as “it” or critcise what they wear, or their physical appearance. And referring to the woman in question as “Mrs Maloney-Baloney”? I’d pull my 8 year old daughter up for being lazy and derivative in her use of insults for that kind of thing. Still, at least you managed to get in the, by now, obligatory plug for Brewdog. Aye, Suse, you’ve still got it. Well done on another piece of witty, incisive writing.
Angela Joss your comment reminded me of the behavour of George Sorial and the rest of the Trump Organisation who make very nasty personal attacks against innocent people, that are many, many times worse than anything that could be read/or allowed in Aberdeen Voice. You have also defeated your own comment by making a personal attack against against Suzane Kelly, yet this is the thing you are complaing about!
But what I find the most concerning is the fact that you claim to be a mother to an eight year old daughter.
Sean, the lassie’s comments are very well-founded. If you think it is acceptable for one woman to describe another as “it” in this day and age, with women’s rights under siege in just about every corner of the planet, then you need to give yourself a good bloody shake. And as for the snide remark about the daughter, well…
PS what is it using with the phrase “past week’s event’s” in the opening sentence? A primary 7 schoolkid could tell you not to use apostrophes in plurals. Don’t you have any editors or sub-editors ?
Minger, it’s a pity your not genuinely interested in the welfare of others, otherwise you would have defended Suzanne Kelly and those viciously attacked by the Trump Organisation. Instead you choose to be selective in your bias. And for your information, I know a lot about women’s rights, I was the local secretary of a Scottish campaign against domestic violence towards women and children.
Despite your thought of my comment as “snide”, this could have been said of Angela Joss’s comment about Suzanne Kelly, but again you did not reply to that.
(*** Post moderated and overly personal content removed ***)
FAO The Minger. Quote -> “what is it using with the phrase” and you have a problem with an apostrophe?
Hello Stray Ray, I’ve a few free minutes after work tonight, and have a chance to offer an observation or two. Obviously the most important thing at stake here is The Minger’s superior use of language and his knowledge of grammar – my content is irrelevant. If however, Minger gets his word order wrong when firing valuable comments in after 11pm, we should forgive him – his errors are to be overlooked; mine aren’t. Must have been a hard day at his or her office.
It’s completely true – my attempts at political satire sometimes involve me not being very nice to people – even other women! – including people who for instance who harm the environment, who get ahead in business by cashing in on their looks to take figurehead jobs (which certainly leaves me out), who cheat the taxpayer, and who try to steal common good land. it’s good to know the targets of my writing have found friends in Minger and Ms Joss.
I’ve never claimed to be a saint, but the way some people carry on, you’d think I was, say, an unfit mother or perhaps a criminal. I’m keeping my £95 worth of BrewDog shares thanks very much, and I’m going to keep writing, thanks. I accept completely that I am the only writer/reporter in history to own shares or to write about enjoying what I enjoy. I also give over £100 each month to a selection of charities, some of which I also talk about. Perhaps I’ll go get some sack cloth and ash – but I think the sub editor is using them at the moment, after the apostrophe debacle. My shortcomings are many, but they don’t make me incapable of looking at the great and good of this town and the wider world, and pointing up what I think smells rotten. I’m sure someone out there is writing politically correct, inoffensive political satire; do send me a sample or two.
You could forgive me for starting to wonder why these two people, so unhappy with my musings, continue to subject themselves to reading it, attempting to score points over me and the sub-editors about apostrophes and their superior morality. It is starting to look just a tad petty, tired and obsessive though. Perhaps I’ll have to take some time from looking at the Trumps and Milnes to have a peek at this pair to see what their motive might be and what gives them the moral high ground; I feel an investigation looms. Ms Joss has a culture show on SHMU FM; I will have to check it out one of these days (any reviews from those who’ve heard it welcome).
Minger is apoplectic at my referring to a woman as ‘it’ (In this column I had just referred to Aberdeen’s sweetheart as ‘the lessser spotted Sarah Malone-Bates’ referring to her post-nuptual disappearance from the papers, and her objectifying herself by going for the beauty title ‘Face of Aberdeen’). Minger’s own chivalrous treatment of women is of course beyond reproach. But again, this is satire of those who would oppress others for personal gain; in this instance of a woman who displayed her own feminist credentials by entering a beauty contest, and taking a job where she had no relevant experience. Again, if it is too upsetting for our Minger friend to read this little column to the point he can’t string a sentence together (witness his post elsewhere on this page), perhaps he needs to take up yoga, calm down, and read something less contentious. He’s not going to change Old Suz. Perhaps he might think about changing his own ways?
Yes, political satire can be mean – to men and women. As for the feminist credentials of ‘Minger’ I offer a definition, which might shed light on his right on criticism of me from http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=minger : ”
“minger – A derogatory term specifically for an English person. Comes from the Glasgow rhyming slang. The word England is often pronounced as “Inger-land” by English football fans, thus inger minger.
“It comes from the Scots word “ming”, which refers to several things, such as something smelly, poor quality, unattractive, and also to human excrement, the latter definition documented by Watson in the early 1900s around Roxburgh.”
Time to resume normal services. Minger, Angela – thank you for your valuable, witty, upbeat contributions, and please do carry on. But I do hate to see you both so upset. Calm down dears, it’s only a satirical column in a free online newspaper.
(Thanks everyone who’s sent me private messages of support expressing bafflement as to what this whole thing’s about – I agree, it is a wonder). Sorry – there is no time to proof, sub or check the grammar on this comment – I’m heading out the door on some matters which, believe it or not, are even more important than Minger’s and Joss’ comments. Tally Ho!
Aye, Stray Ray… I cringed masel ;o))
I am new to this whole issue, but from what i have read and seen the behaviour and actions of all involved bar the residents seems to have been utterly contemptible, and on the part of trump- simply downright nasty and vindictive- he has basically walled in a woman in a house she refuses to leave…in what world is this even vaguely acceptable? let alone backed by a government??? scotland? IMO i hope you get your independance and we set up a proper border where we can keep out the parasitic lunatic american megalomaniacs you seem to want in your country???
The fact your government even entertained giving him a visitors visa let alone cronying up to it like that speaks volumes IMO…
At last a bit of good news, I just hope it’s the beginning of the end for this vile uncaring man.
Hahah! Get it up ye, Trump, you daft fool!
Great news! Maybe the powers that be are starting to see sense, especially with a public enquiry looming… 😉
I am so happy with both decisions today, I wish all the residents continued success with their fight against Trump. I will support them in every way I can every step of the way! <3
Another piece of amazing backward thinking by the Aberdeenshire council. Here we have a Billionaire willing to invest in our local area to the tune of god knows how many millions and we are again treated with disdain by the elected council officials. The pointless wind farm project will provide next to no local jobs, the turbines will be built over seas if we (Scotland) are lucky the towers may be built in Nigg (Around 150 miles north of ABZ) however no local industry will benefit. Once up and running there is minimal maintenance on them so again will not provide many if any local jobs. The building of a second course a hotel and houses on the Menie estate will employ local trades man and women directly for many years to come during the building process. The hotel will provide jobs for many more locals once open for bookings. The course and hotel will pump much needed funds in to the local economy on a daily basis and far more during the summer months. There would also be a very real chance of European golf tournaments being held in Aberdeen and perhaps even the best of the lot The Open. The wind farm could be easily moved 15-20 miles up the coast and be tied in to an existing power station at Peterhead……. Trump may not cast himself in the best light every time he open his mouth however it’s him opening his wallet this city and shire needs. His building of Bunds around the houses is out of order and should be taken down however shooting ourselves in the foot by passing a plan for windmills is beyond comprehension.
Major international investors (many of whom I’m sure he calls friends) will look at Scotland and Aberdeen in particular and think why bother. What’s the point of trying to set up anything there when this is how they think, lets go to Ireland or France or Spain or wherever just don’t bother with Scotland!! Well done Aberdeenshire council you’ve covered your faces in egg once again…..
We need major investment (not at any cost) in this region and by doing this we have shown we are not worth the hassle of investing in.
Move the wind farm up the coast and benefit from both projects, win win situation!!
Hi Drue
Do you work for the P&J? You might well do because your argument is as unsophisticated as one of theirs.
So you support illegal land developments? As long as the developer is rich, that’s OK then?
On the turbines, do you really think that wind power is going nowhere? Its all a big scam? Believe you me, the days of simple fossil fuel are coming to an end and we are going to need a mix of fossil fuel, renewables, energy conservation, and if we can sort the waste disposal, nuclear. The technologies still need to be sorted and if Aberdeen cannot get in on the act by using its offshore wind to research one of the more promising technologies, the NE will never become a player.
Get over yourself, you are going to see a lot more wind power.
Bob,
No I don’t work for the P&J.
No I never said i support any illegal developments and to my knowledge there aren’t any going on here…….
Tell me what the benefit of building the wind farm in Aberdeen Bay as opposed to Cruden bay? My argument isn’t against wind power and development of wind power if you had taken off your blinkers you’d have seen that. The argument is why there and in doing so stop further investment in Aberdeen/shire. The subsidies that has been pumped into wind in the past is coming to an end so is an expensive for of energy and do a trial in Aberdeen Bay is a very expensive gamble seeing as there is hundreds of millions worth of investment sitting there waiting.
There is a power station at Peterhead that could be utilised without having to build another sud station on the coast in the area and in moving them up the coast we get the best of both worlds…. Your and the others who spout their Anti Trump hatred can’t see the wood for the trees. You only want to see him fail and in doing so you would see millions lost to the local economy ever year. It’s a high price to pay to feel smug!
My feelings on Donal Trump is he makes himself look like an idiot each and every time he opens his mouth about the issue and Scotland however yes I’ll take a rich man’s investment in our area even if he is an Idiot cause I can’t see a line of them forming….. Just another feather in the shoot ourselves in the foot cap by the Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire councils and the UTG debacle. No doubt you were opposed to that also…..??
Have a wee read of this, Drue:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/03/27/trump-and-the-turbines/
‘we are being treated with disdain by the council’. Certainly are. How they could even think of rubberstamping a contentious illegal development with retrospective planning permission without informing the opponents is total disdain for every one of us. That illegal development is designed solely to punish Trump’s opponents.
‘Billionaire willing to invest in our local area to the tune of god knows how many millions’. Is he a billionaire? His net worth could be as low as 150-250 million dollars. How many millions is he investing in our local area? Do you know? Apart from God the council, or the Scottish Government should. Whatever it is won’t be what Trump is claiming. He just opens his mouth and his latest factless fantasy spews out.
To make this development pay, and to bring ecomonic benefit to Aberdeenshire, it has to attract seriously wealthy golfers in huge numbers. And when those people come to Scotland they want heritage and tradition, not the kind of resort they can find anywhere else outside Scotland.
Well done Aberdeenshire – at last, and well done Aberdeen Voice/Suzanne Kelly for all the work and effort that has gone into this campaign! Thanks. 🙂
I urge caution not to self censor as the ruling elites, who have created this veneer of democracy, rely on our fear and hesitancy to protest and offend. Whilst we self censor they grow and prosper.
Look for the ‘truth about the catholic church’ on you tube if you like the spirit of Tim Minchin’s riposte to the pope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k
Thank you for your views Jeremy.
Not really sure what you mean about urging caution. I hope this is not a personal threat.
Good news – let’s hope the tide is turning
A complete stretch of coastline ruined by uneconomic monstrosities and you support it, presumably because it upsets Mr Trump, how hypocritical.
God knows how many birds from the nearby nature reserve will be killed by these things not to mention the damage it will do to sealife, reports that the noise they create can lead to whales beaching themselves doesn’t appear to have reached you. That’s before you even get to the hazard it will create in a busy shipping area.
An utter eyesore on one of the best stretches of beach in our Country, how anyone can support putting them there is beyond me, you only need to drive towards Huntly to see how these things have ruined some great Countryside.
If Mr Trump was behind the building of them I know 100% your stance would be different, you’re so blinded by hatred of him that you’re willing to stand aside and let one of the greatest vandalism’s of our area occur under your nose, some environmental campaigner, well done.
George Smith, I would be very interested to know how many letters of complaint you sent to Menie House regarding the shooting of birds, the destruction of numerous populations of wildlife – in particular the hundreds or thousands of resident rabbits that are said to have been killed, the indigenous trees in the hundreds that were uprooted and buried, the stabilisation of a unique dynamic dune system and the elimination of the Site of Special Scientific Interest that contained rare and valuable flora, etc, etc. Which occurred during the building of Donald Trump’s golf course.
You’ve made my point exactly!
This wind farm atrocity has nothing to do with Mr Trump yet the environmentalists are willing to turn a blind eye because he is against it, I simply can’t fathom the thinking behind that. These eyesores are going to destroy the beauty of our coastline and cause untold amounts of damage to the environment, surely that’s bigger than any hatred you may feel for him as a man.
To reiterate; these are two completely separate issues, you don’t have to support one because of your opposition for another.
George Smith, I have not made your point in anyway. Futhermore, Suzanne Kelly or anyone who cares about the environment at Menie has not supported the EOWDC – “to support one because of your opposition for another”, as you state.
I suggest you read my reply again and if you don’t understand it get someone to help you. May I also suggest you get yourself a dictionary and look up the word, “hypocritical”.
With our local press bought and paid for, we depend all the more on Suzanne’s column in AV to highlight just what is going on in our town. More power to her elbow!
This is outrageous. What happened at the planning meeting? How dare the council not inform interested parties that Trump had applied for retrospective planning permission for these monstrosities. And how DARE they say-
‘“The information was not considered to have altered the application significantly given the works had already taken place, and as such re-notification was considered to be unnecessary.”
‘given the works had already taken place’ without planning persmission and with opposition which the comittee is legally obliged to consider?
What is the point of a planning committee if Trump can build what he wants in the face of legitimate and reasonable opposition. It must be acting illegally, and there’s a good case to answer that it’s depriving the interested parties of their human rights.
The joke is Trump has already decided to pull out because he can’t get the bookings and is using the offshore windpower as an excuse, but is still taking time to punish the residents just because he can. And doing the same to Salmond who at least deserves it. He will turn on the council too and let everyone know exactly what went on. Everyone is going to lose on this one, except one person. Guess who. All this makes me feel sick so I can’t begin to think what the people in Menie are going through.
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Aberdeenshire and the government “shot themselves in the foot” a while ago, when they granted planning permission, on a SSSI, to Donald Trump. He is seen as a joke in his own country, full of bluster and exaggeration and with a history of uncompleted projects and profitable (to him) bankruptcies, evident from the most cursory research into his business record. The real embarrassment is that so many people were gullible enough to believe his wild claims for jobs and profits, blinded, no doubt, by his apparent and ostentatious wealth. Any decision about a test centre for wind energy is a government decision and cannot and should not be influenced by the uninformed and self-serving pronouncements of someone who is not the success he pretends to be. In this context, he is, indeed, the evidence!
The Shire council made an error when they wrote to me about an aspect of this decision: as soon as they come back to me, I will have an article correcting their error. More on this as soon as possible
Please be advised that Gordon Lyon has not retired and is still on Aberdeenshire Council. We have asked him to clarify a statement made on the Shire’s behalf which read: “”This development is
well-scrutinised and the approved plans are being adhered to.
“Site inspections are undertaken on a weekly basis by various organisations
to ensure that the development is being carried out according to the
planning permission granted.”
As witnessed by the retrospective planning permission for the parking and the bunds blocking the Munro property from light and views, clearly something has gone amiss with this inspection process.
I am happy to clear up the matter of Mr Lyon’s retirement. I will be happier still to clear up this contradiction between the Shire’s statement and the reality on the ground at Menie- Suzanne Kelly
you don’t need to worry about trump any longer………
http://www.leagardens.co.uk
…. Brilliant Rosa 🙂 cheers for the chuckles, and carry on with the good work.
Does anyone know when the Public Petitions Committee at Holyrood will confirm their approval for the Inquiry.
So when do the “temporary” bunds get taken doon?
If Trumpie’s “broon noses” in the Aberdeenshire Council have their way I would suspect the “temporary” bunds shall become “permanent”Most of them are, in my opinion,
running scared of Mr Trump and have, with the exception of a few brave souls, been this way ever since he arrived on the scene,and threatened to move to the Emerald Isle if he didn’t get his way.
I have another concern about the grant of retrospective planning. It is quite clear that the 5 public access footpaths specified in the approved plans have not been built, despite the first course being complete. Would the retrospective planning not only rubber stamp the illegal bunds, and other off-plan developments, but remove the necessity for the public paths?
To paraphase a well known Eartha Kitt song ” Whatever Trumpie Wants, Trumpie Gets”
“Let’s hope the local authorities and parliamentary bodies see sense on this issue” Now THAT would be an event!! Local councils seeing sense.??As the American politician and Governor of California is quoted as saying, “Multinationals do control.They control the politicians. They control the media. They control the pattern of consumption, entertainment, thinking. They’re destroying the planet and laying the foundation for violent outbursts and racial division”
They do indeed control as you so rightly say but I always feel that if we refuse to empower folk, be they polititions or multi nationals then they have no actual power.
Good work Duncan. The Falls of Clyde is a stunning area which I visited only for the first time last August when we were at a wedding at New Lanark.
I’ve kept up to date with the debate and it’s reaching a critical stage.
There will be little point in voting for independence next year if we are still to be in thrall to multi-national capitalists whose only motive is profit.
Thank goodness you’re doing such thorough and meticulous research Suzanne. Absolutely essential for anyone trying to follow and understand the people and processes that govern all our lives.
Great Article, great and very very down to earth and kind people; wonderful environment and well worth supporting.
Deborah Bonham is playing Kinross on 3 May – more info on this, her new album (top of the ReverbNation charts) and some further photos and thoughts at http://oldsusannahsjournal.yolasite.com/
I have seen council staff dump white goods in a car park and two years later the rubbish is still there.
Of course, “we in Scotland,” (where have I heard that phrase before?) will miss the illustrious, first, female PM. She did such a lot for us after all. She sold off as many council houses as possible, promising to build replacements but failing to do so and insisting that proceeds from such sales must be locked away for decades instead of being used to tackle the ever increasing waiting lists. She destroyed our heavy industry and mining, instead of investing in modernisation to make them more viable. Sold off our utilities to the highest bidder under the illusion that this would reduce prices to the consumer and not simply add to the dividends of the shareholders. Our railways and buses were dealt with likewise to save the public purse having to subsidise them. Perversely, many multiple of the previous subsidies are now paid to these “privatised” companies. Yes, our Maggie saved the nation a fortune. Then there was “The Big Bang.” Little did she realise that she was sowing the seeds of the present crises we find ourselves in now. The investment bankers (and associated crooks) continue to award themselves gynormous bonuses, which seems to have been the main aim of the changes. Yes, our Maggie took a delight in making changes that lined the pockets of the few, to the detriment of the many. But of course, she could never have been described as devisive, could she? In saying that, over a decade or more of Labour rule, the gap between the rich and the poor widened even more. So RIP Margaret. We will miss you sorely. Wonder when Tony’s due for permanent “retirement.”?
Dearie me. How could I ever forget The Poll Tax? Another exercise in Tory “fairness”, plonked on Scotland a year before The rest of the UK.
Perhaps it was the wrong sort of trees, planted in the wrong sort of soil, that’s the problem? Who knows. In a couple of hundred years time the areas concerned might regenerate themselves to their previous verdant state? No doubt, in the intervening period, ACC, and it’s well-meaning officials, will have come up with many new scams/schemes to waste the tax payers money.
And Aberdeen is one of two local authorities to lower a flag as a tribute to Thatcher and her legacy. The workers’ vanguard in charge of Aberdeen were only concerned about how low to drop it. t’s a while since the Labour Party sold out its principles but up it pops to remind us all from time to time.
Shamefull that any Scottish local authority could even contemplate that action.
I agree with Lena and Ron, nothing surprises me about the scum that is Aberdeen City Council.
So, while you were taking these pictures did you tidy up at all?
I’ll bet not.
Hypocrite.
Hello John, nice to hear from you. I left the boxes on the site – and tried to put as many bits of the plastic blowing around inside of one of them. Could hypocrite possibly be just a little misdirected? I’ve cleaned litter from the hill just after this scheme ripped up the gorse and exposed many dangerous items – I distinctly recall one huge bit of wire that would have broken a deer’s leg if it had been frightened and ran over it. Got witnesses; even have a few photos. Cleaning that hill of litter is impossible – but to declare you can expose it, strip away the gorse and the wildlife, plant your trees and leave your tree-related litter behind is beyond the pale. For that matter, I’ve never left any kind of litter there or anywhere. My friends and I often do impromptu cleans of the Torry coast as well. I do hope this goes some way to helping you, and have a good day.
PS John – I also wanted the officials to find the boxes and clean up after themselves. Then again, there was the small matter that I had visited straight from work, was carrying a few bags of my own stuff, and only have two hands. Shall I see you up there doing some cleaning when I next return?
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post, “The Don Crossing – Views From The ‘Brig’ – Aberdeen Voice”.
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Thanks a lot ,Verlene
Och, I mind as a kid in Fife before Maggie. My dad is no slouch, but he was on and off the dole before Maggie, and has never been unemployed since Maggie. I think she did more good than bad. Maybe not much more good tho`. The worst thing I think she did was sell off the utility companies? They announce monsterous profits that I cant help but think would be helping out the Goverment just now. I think its lunacy to expect any economy to keep on growing, surely its a finite thing? Just ppl with lots of money have nowhere safe to put it just now. I think its business as usual for the bulk of the population. I hate the way the taxman is taxing as much as he can just now to cover bankers bonuses.
Consider when you buy a tv from Currys?
1 you paid around/at least 20% Tax on money you are about to spend (PAYE)
2 you get taxed another 20% for VAT
3 You cover currys extortionate rates/Tax to local goverment (now you know why a cup of coffee can cost up to £5)
4 You cover import duty/Tax as nobody makes TV`s in this country
5 You probably drove to pick up the tv and even may have paid a £5 parking fee/Tax
6 Any profits Currys made from the purchase will be taxed 20%
Anyone add to this list? 🙂
oh, and how come in poorer times, we were able to build and maintain things without lottery funding? What are they doing with all the money they take in not just in the above scenario but also proceeds from parking tickets/speeding tickets/fines etc. Have you ever bought anything from America on Ebay? you get a shock when you go to the post office to collect, and you wont be the only one in the que getting fleeced for up to a couple of hundred quid. Either Local and central goverment are very corrupt or they are in a really, really bad way.
Also, If I am made unemployed tomorrow, after 3 mnths I can expect £50/week, how come the gov have just decided to cap benefits to £500/week – thats laughable
Anyhows, Back to Maggie, What was the timeline between selling everything off and the Falklands war. Could one have been used to pay for the other? All fair in love and war?
Justin I think you are very, very brave. Words fail me in trying to describe how I feel about the way the Conservative and LibDem government have treated people.
This farmer should be charged with waisting police and court time, how can he not even feel ashamed of his behaviour.
Good article Duncan, what I also find quite interesting is the fact that Donald Trump forgets to tell people that he was a friend to Colonel Gaddafi, who was invited to stay on land belonging to Mr Trump during the United Nations General Assembly 2009.
Selective memory i’m thinkin
Didn’t know about that Sean. Can you give me sources please.
Dinnae be fergettin trump is the evidence…he is also an eejit imho of course
Growth hormones, lol!
Sheep are for eating, the lamb wouldn’t exist were it not for the farmer breeding them for the plate. Luckily for this sheep he’s a breeding ram so he’ll live a happy life doing what he does best, that isn’t sitting beside a donkey whilst children stroke him.
Well done to the sanctuary for rescuing ill treated animals but it can’t just keep well treated animals because someone found it.
The farmer needs to provide proof of ownership before he can lay claim to the sheep
Mr Smith might have a point if the animal had been well treated, animal sanctuaries get loads of traffic from animals their owners would describe describe as well treated, until found near death by a member of the public.
I heartily agree Bob, especially aboot fowk buttin in afore you’ve finished spikkin.
Dinna dachle at a roundabout or traffic lichts in fron o me when iIm pedalling though. My dad wis a lorry driver in the 60s and I learned some affa fool stuff when I wis only wee and can still recall it!
I’m sure it’s fit Otis Redding meant when he wrote Respect. I mean the manners, nae the fool orra Banffshire profanity.
So many false points in this report it’s unbelievable. According to the STV news a spokesperson for Willows said the lamb has only been there a week, the farmer has offered DNA proof of ownership, he also offered money. On radio Scotland Aberdeen news at lunchtime today he also offered a replacement lamb. He also stated that Willow put the matter in the hands of their solicitor rather than talk with him.
I’ve always enjoyed Aberdeen Voice’s investigative and accurate journalism, you’ve covered some very interesting topics and almost always done it in a fair and level headed way but I’m saddened to read this report above.
It’s so full of inaccuracies and sensationalism you’d think it was written by someone from Aberdeen Journals!
I understand that some of you don’t agree with modern farming methods and may find it hard to believe that farmers and meat eaters can be caring and compassionate about animals but since you are the voice of Aberdeen I think your reporting should be a bit more accurate. A few of the points I disagree with in the above report are:
1. The farmer never threatened or intimidated the charity at all, he asked for his lamb to be returned and even offered a donation and another lamb in it’s place. According to Willow’s facebook page yesterday (It’s been deleted today) they were happy for the matter to be handled by solicitors and they actively encouraged their supporters to harass the farmer, they also deleted the farmer’s posts on their page where he offered a replacement and politely defended his actions.
2. Fred – Sheep don’t get stuffed with growth hormones in the UK, or fat.
This is from the governments sheep and goat health regulations.
“Due to concerns about the potential risk to humans, the use of hormonal growth promoters for livestock is banned in the UK. Antibiotic growth-promoting feed additives have also been phased out – because of concerns about the potential spread of antibiotic resistance.”
Come on Aberdeen Voice please don’t loose your journalistic integrity by knowingly publishing inaccurate material, it’s insulting to your readers.
Hi Martyn, you bring up a valid and interesting point re. the quote attributed to myself in the above article, which I feel deserves to be addressed.
First of All, I should point out that I know you personally, and therefore do not doubt your background/involvement in farming. I also bow to your superior knowledge re. sheep rearing and the relevant laws. Secondly thanks for the kind words about AV which frame your complaint about the above article.. much appreciated.
I should point out that the quote, as used, is accurate, and as correctly stated, WAS my reaction to the issue, presented to the letter. I should also point out that what I offered at the time was a general expression of a scenario involving ANY animal rescue centre, ANY farmer, and/or ANY rescued animal ANYWHERE on the planet.
This in mind, Whilst there are no grounds to retract/remove the quote, nor object to it’s inclusion, I can recognise that in the context of the article, it could be implied that I am referring to specifics. However, it is fact that the idea I describe hypothetically, I find disgusting, and I stand by the expression.
I am glad, and even grateful to be a little wiser re. sheep rearing, and delighted to know that sheep in the UK are not subjected to growth hormones.
This being the case, what may be implied from the quote attributed to me would appear to be erroneous…. and if I was presented as a professor of Agriculture, or a qualified Veterinarian or similar, I would be embarrassed and want it removed. However, as I am none of those and not placated to be, then I will lose no sleep over it, and if ridiculed on account of it, I’ll just have to take it on the chin.
At Aberdeen Voice, we strive not to interfere with writer’s material, editing as lightly as possible, and only with good cause. In this instance, I see a case, but not cause.
I will of course alert the writer to this contribution for her consideration.
Nae worries Fred, cheers!
I appreciate the fact that your readers get a decent right to reply.
I wouldn’t like to see the article changed at all I just thought I’d point out that the use of growth hormones thankfully is not allowed in the UK, just in case anyone reading thought that it was common practice.
Keep up the good work, you guys have covered a lot of important issues over the years and 99.9% I totally agree with.
A very brave man indeed, let down by the system. The Benefits System was set in place to assist those, such as Justin. Most people want to work but, in cases like this, are clearly unable to do so. Little ATOS gems, such as, “can you lift an empty box?” hardly prove anything, of any value. All that is happening is that government is paying companies, such as ATOS,, phenomenal amounts of money to perform meaningless assessments, when JobCentrePlus staff, who are well aware of the dodgers in the system, are being deprived of funds to bring them to book. The high levels of appeals in regard to ATOS decisions, and the significant numbers winning those appeals, says it all.
It’s obvious that the sanctuary is run by people from an urban area. Here in the north east, any country person finding a lamb would first go round the local farms so that it could be reunited with its mother, for a start, and to return it to the farmer who owned it. We have far too many of these ignorant people living in country areas.
Ewan-
To paraphrase the words of Samuel Taylor Coleridge “Until you understand a person’s ignorance
presume yourself ignorant of their understanding”
Dear Ewan, You seem to have missed most of the facts of the situation. The teenager who found it was far away from any sign of any other sheep or farm. She saved its life, and then brought it to a sanctuary. The sanctuary has been run for more than a decade by people who deal with wild, domestic and farm animals that have been abandonded, abused, or simply can’t be cared for by their owners. It is a bit odd that a ‘valuable’ lamb was allowed to get washed away down a river? Does that really sound like adequate animal husbandry to you? It sounds like you have a city folk/country folk chip on your shoulder more than anything else.
Well, Old Susannah……If I owned a farm, I would split it into 3-5 acre pieces and sell them so that people from the cities could build their dream house, with the long tree-lined drive, the fancy 5 bar gate with the goose head at one end, and give it a fancy name such as Cherry Tree Farm, and next to it, a sign saying PRIVATE.
They would have plenty room to build the stable block, exercise their many dogs, and keep their pot-bellied pigs, donkeys and a goat or two.
I would then stop having to work 365 days a year, up to 18 hours out of the 24 during the weeks of lambing, and I would retire somewhere nice and warm.
There’s more to it, Old Susannah.
The meat that people buy in the supermarkets could then be brought in by plane from South America. After all, there’s millions and millions of acres of forest that could be cleared to provide all of the UK’s needs.
Everybody would then be happy. The farmers would be able to live a normal life like other people, and the new occupants of the plots could all get together and raise funds for the animal sanctuaries and feel good about themselves. They also would not have to look at farm animals in the fields knowing that one day, bits of them would be on their dinner plates, and other bits would be around their feet.
Well, this one is clearly dividing opinion. There have been developments – the farmer involved has posted on his Facebook page a comment referring to Willows as a ‘funny farm’ – it helps people with mental, physical and emotional problems from children to adults. Mocking those less fortunate than himself is not going down very well with anyone, whatever side people are on of the ownership issue – this was just nasty and unnecessary.
These people have bonded with this lamb – which might sound unimportant to some of you – but it will be extremely traumatising for them to let this animal go – putting a different animal in is not the answer. There is as yet no proof of ownership, and certainly no proof of this being a valuable tup. If it were worth a great deal of money, many farmers would have kept a better eye on it. This also begs the question – was it looked after properly – it was found in distress, nearly dead. There are some people who think the law is absolute and the farmer still owns the sheep. This is not exactly ironclad. If someone loses an animal, domestic or farm, and ceases to look for them, the person who finds the animal might be entitled to lay claim to the animal – this is a matter for the courts. The farmer posted that he stopped looking and thought it was dead. It is far from clear that he called all the area animal rescue centres.
Sometimes a look at a person’s character can give insight into how they operate. I would personally be a bit slow to take his word. This is a man who sued his injured, 77 year-old father for the farm and won; the court case papers make very interesting reading indeed. It would be nice if this wealthy landowning farmer could simply be happy this animal is alive and has been de facto adopted by vulnerable people who care for it. If he takes the charity to court, removes this animal and causes distress to the people on the animal assisted therapy, then I for one am going to let the meat dealers and retailers his insult to the people who rely on Willows and how he took them to court.
I am not unable to see his piont of view either. He believes this animal is his property; he says it is valuable. But it was the farmer who as I understand it started in with the threats of police, legal action and so on. I know Willows; I know they are in a difficult position over this, and we shall see what happens whether it is decided in or out of court. I know what I’ve found out about our farmer. I’ve made my decision who I believe; we’ll see what happens in due course.
Old Susannah, Thanks for the reply however I think there are still a few issues that you are wrong about.
I understand that you are a good friend and supporter of Willows and those who work there but I think this makes your reporting very biased an one sided in this case, I would do the same if my friends needed help too.
I don’t personally know anyone who works at Willows, I think they do a great job both for the animals they rescue and the people who receive therapy.
I don’t know the Farmer in question either but I have a interest in farming, I’ve lived on a farm for many years and my wife is a farmer.
I agree that the farmer’s use of the term “Funny Farm” was definitely unnecessary and derogatory however I would say that he and his Wife got a huge amount of unnecessary and derogatory abuse from the supporters of Willows on facebook, including a very disturbing description of what one supporter would do if he met them, taking time to describe separately what he would do to each of them. This “mob bullying” behaviour was encouraged by Willows and I would also say by you too on the Aberdeen Voice facebook page “Please post messages of support on the Willows page if you can; and if you do see the farmer’s post, please feel free to give him a piece of your mind.”
In a heated debate like this one I believe your action to be very irresponsible.
I also think that accusations of animal neglect towards the farmer are wrong, Blackfaced sheep are a very hardy outdoor breed that thrive in difficult areas and do not do well indoors, they are impossible to watch 24/7. Lambing season is also a very busy time for a farmer. This should all be taken into account. It is quite understandable that the lamb was in distress and nearly dead, it was found in a river. I don’t think anyone who knows and understands sheep farming would blame the farmer for this.
I also think that Willows have been very irresponsible in using the rescued lamb as part of their Therapy program knowing that it could be claimed at any time, allowing vulnerable people to become attached to the lamb then using this as the reason they should keep it. That is either poor management practices or a shocking manipulation of the very people they are supposed to be helping. I do hope it’s not the latter.
I wonder if this place is run by the same people who had the Donkey Sanctuary I visited in Devon. A sumptuous place with many broad acres. I understand that it started in a scruffy little smallholding. A sad looking donkey in an advert soon brought the dosh rolling in. I was there 35 years ago, and it had already been sold for over £1,000,000.
After all, it is a licence to print money, isn’t it? All those little old ladies leaving them a fat legacy.
All this anger-producing publicity is going to do them nothing but good, of course. They’ll milk it (no pun intended!) for all its worth.
Thank’s Andrew. Can you expand please? If you have evidence based comments to make that would be great!
Will the BBC and Mail be acceptable sources?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8270450.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1215509/Have-got-permit-Bedouin-tent-sir-Colonel-Gaddafi-meets-match–New-York-planning-officials.html
Will take a wee look in the morning. Thank you!
I hope the fifteen year old girl who bravely rescued this lamb is OK, she deserves a great amount of thanks for saving River. When I was fifteen (because it concerns an animal), I would have probably been quite bewildered and upset at all the arguments.
Sean,
This lamb is not a pet, it’s a working animal, I’ve spent a lot of my life on farms, sheep thrive in the company of other sheep, it just isn’t natural for a tup to be kept away from other sheep, it will get depressed and go mad in the confines of this “sanctuary”.
Thank god I’m not the only one who see’s the insanity of a rescue centre claiming ownership of everything that passes through its door, the very nature of these places should be to look after the animal till the owner can be reunited with the animal or to take care of it if no one wants it.
To keep this fluffy little animal because it’s cute and people at the centre have grown attached to it is laughable.
btw Well done on stopping the UTG project, I took my daughter down there on the the Sunday of the International market to eat some food we’d bought, Union Terrace was mobbed, we got harassed for money by two junkies when we passed an archway, not one other person was in the garden, my daughter got a real scare. This was a warm sunny afternoon, where were all you people? If it had been street level it would have been full.
Shame on you people for not giving a shit about the place now its “been saved”. We won’t be back, it’s a disgrace for a city centre.
Have Willow thought this through? In six months to a year this cute lamb is going to be a fully grown ram with horns, it will be stamping feet and butting everything in sight, is this suitable animal to be used as a therapy pet? These children are going to be a lot more attached after a year than they are now, how will they feel when a fully grown sheep charges at them head first?
Worth a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELeZmPDdFPE
A wonderful piece. Well done Alicia.
Cracking review of what was a cracking evenings entertainment…
The evening was organised by ‘Folk at the Salmon Bothy’ (www.bothyfolk.com) and we have an open mic evening on the third Friday of the month at the Salmon Bothy in Portsoy – check out the website for details.
Coming up at the end of May (Fri 24th – Sun 26th) we have our annual Music Festival (The 4th Haal) which this year features Martin Carthy on the Friday evening and Eleanor McEvoy on the Saturday evening – again all details are on the website.
Details of all the workshops, singarounds etc. are on the website as well….
We plan to do more evenings featuring special guests – we have The Hot Seats performing on July 20th.
So if you like that sort of music come on down to Portsoy and help us make it a memorable evening!
It is the responsibility of the applicant, in this case TIGLS, to support their own planning application by complying with a site visit from Aberdeenshire Planning. They failed to do it by keeping the lights off. Importantly, this application is retrospective. They can have no compaints therefore, when the Council uphold the objections and refuse permission.
Or, does the Trump organisation have reason to believe that retrospective planning applications are “par for the course” in Aberdeenshire and that this latest one is just another shoo-in?
Well put together Suzanne. I very much enjoyed reading your writing.
It’s worth mentioning to your readers that the bund in question is not the usual low affair designed to contain a fuel spillage from a tank, which is the usual purpose of a bund. No sir, Trump’s bund is almost 5m high, that’s more than the height of the upstairs windows of the cottage that it faces just 15m away. No way can this be justified on planning grounds or any other.
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OMG! Justin, this bloody government has a lot to answer for, how they can sleep at night.. is beyond me. They just don’t care about the ordinary people, all they care about is lining their own pockets.
All you went through with the accident and then they put this kind of pressure on you,it is despicable.
Hilary x
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The Press and Journal, and the Evening Express leave a lot to be desired, but it is very sad that over fourty people have lost their jobs. Part of me can’t help but think that Aberdeen Journals doesn’t really care much for Aberdeen folk and the North East anyway.
Of course we’re better together! Can’t have the Westminster Treasury going in to serious imbalance by the loss of the majority of North Sea revenues, whiskey taxes etc etc can we? We desperately need our youth to travel to far off lands to fight un-winnable wars and potentially lose their lives in the process.
Of course Trident is absolutely essential, as is nuclear power. The fact that we can’t afford to look after our sick and disabled, apparently, is a mere inconvenience.
We can’t afford to build council houses to put roofs over the heads of those on the ever increasing waiting lists is neither here nor there either. The Westminster dreamed up “bedroom tax” will solve that nasty problem. Yes, undoubtedly, we are better together.
I was born in Aberdeen and have lived in the area all my life, but I am absolutely dumbfounded that there are people who would want Scotland to be insular and separate.
It’s not a case of being “insular and separate” Sean. It’s a question of being in control of your own destiny; being governed by politicians who are accountable to the electorate, something those in Westminster are not to Scottish voters. No one is talking about putting up border posts at Carlisle and Berwick or deporting all English nationals resident north of the border. Under independence, things would carry on pretty much as at present, the major difference being that Scottish interests would be looked after by Scots, for the benefit of their fellow countrymen. Something that certainly never happens when the Conservative Party are voted in to power in Westminster. The inane bleatings of the “Better Together” group begger belief, the latest being the nonsense spouted about oil companies quacking in their boots at the thought of indepndence. That is probably why such massive investment is taking place in the industry north of the border, in the full knowlege that Scots may well vote for separation.
Sean, nobody wants Scotland to be insular and separate – quite the opposite in fact. As part of the UK, we’re forced to remain aloof from the rest of Europe, thanks to that peculiar strain of British attitude to foreigners that unfortunately dominates the way the UK government acts. Scotland should be a major player in the EU as we would be the third richest nation in it with independence; instead, we’re kept in the sidelines as the UK government sets its sights on taking us out of it, thanks to the UK parties’ constant pandering to this weird post-empire attitude that refuses to recognise Britain no longer rules the waves and that we’re just one of the many nation states in the modern world.
Independence doesn’t mean cutting ourselves off from the rest of the UK – it just means we don’t have to be dragged along for the ride if (or when) they decide to cut themselves off from everyone else.
Couldn’t agree more Doug.
I think the trouble is not with Aberdeen Journals (AJL) as such but the owners, D.C. Thomson (DCT). Previous owners of AJL were based hundreds rather than tens of miles away and AJL was run as a separate entity, with its own managing director running the show. When the last AJL MD retired his place was taken by a DCT CEO for publishing. I would imagine his allegiance is to DCT rather than AJL, and his job is to maximize profits across the DCT group. Unfortunately for AJL that means it no longer prints its own papers and dozens of redundancies.
The minute AJL was bought by D C Thomson the writiing was on the wall for AJL. The fact that the two head offices are only 60 miles apart meant that one would have to suffer. A new press was ordered and it went (naturally) to Dundee leaving Aberdeen without a press plus if you add the distribution going to Menzies it leaves only Advertising and Editorial at the Lang Stracht. As a former employee of AJL it saddens me so see a City like Aberdeen without a proper Aberdeen printed newspaper, but in the economic world that we live in I suppose this was always on the cards unfortunately.
I’ll certainly be out for The Hot Seats, Graham. Thanks for a great evening. I left my card with one of your colleagues – tell him to contact me and I’ll see if we can run a feature on the Bothy.
Having worked as a reporter at Aberdeen Journals for a number of years, I can confirm the place is a cesspit of bullying and misery.
Theres no such thing as honest journalism there. Everything published must meet with the agenda.
Kudos to Aberdeen Voice and outlets such as Twitter, which simply highlight how miserably these local newspapers are serving their communities. Do they hold power to account? No. Not if it conflicts with their interests. They are failing us completely.
Hello Kelvin – I appreciate the view from inside. I’m also very happy that my favourite publication Private Eye has taken up this story and agrees that this Bates/Malone relationship is a remarkable conflict of interest.
As to comments their relationship doesn’t matter – if that were true, they’d have been open about it. And yes, Aberdeen Voice did know they were involved, but this passed from rumour to fact when the marriage certificate was issued.
It’s not only a golf course. It’s an erosion of what was the highest designation of protection land can be given (SSSI status). It’s peoples’ lives.
As to the sweeping arguments that people in the past objected to progress, very true. We are now in the 21st century and are seeing the effects of long term loss of greenbelt and long term pollution. We know why we should be saving wildlife and our environment.
To all who’ve weighed in, thanks for keeping the debate lively – and live. Cheerio! Suzanne
“The concocshuns o some feel…”
Brilliant! Couldna pit it better masel, Bob!
I had hoped the area would have been turned into an open and green space, I was a bit shocked at the designs, the buildings are completely inappropriate. No wonder Aberdeen is known as the city of concrete.
“Aiberdeen is kent as the city o concrete” Aat’s cos it’s run by a bunch o “Block”heids Sean
Is it? I’ve never heard that. Agree though, pish design. All about the money.
Congratulations to whoever wrote this piece. It is not often these days to come across an example of stream of consciousness in prose. It may be drivel from beginning to end, but it at least shows that posturing by old lefties is as alive in Aberdeen, as it is in N Korea
Of course government must direct us Suzanne.We can’t possibly be allowed to think for ourselves, that would be decidedly dangerous. Think of all the little privitasation wheezes put in to place. Our utilities were sold of with the promise of lower bills. End result? Higher bills. Our public transport was treated similarly promising excellence of service and lower fares. did it happen? What did happen was that a small number of people became very rich while the rest of us got ripped off. Yes, government will always guide us and look after our best interests.
Ron,
We were allowed to think for ourselves when we got the chance to vote on the UTG project, I seem to recall many here more than happy when the nanny state ignored the will of the people.
On the subject of UTG I went down there when the International market was in town, despite it being a beautiful day i was the only person down there apart from a couple of dodgy looking people in an arch, it was hard to believe that a few feet away was a busy bustling market. I can only imagine how many people would have used a raised garden that day to eat the food they’d bought and rest their feet.
Such a shame those who fought to stop this happening appear to have moved on to other left wing causes and have forgotten about the dank hole in the ground in our City centre, they could at least have the decency to pop down there now and again on a nice day.
It should be pointed out that the “food from Cafe 52” was actually paid for by the Unison union as a gift to the people of Aberdeen. It was, however, beautifully presented and served up with charming efficiency, as always, by Mrs B and her team from Cafe 52.
Load of left wing idealist rubbish, never any answers to how we’ll pay for lazy people to sit and live off benefits, never any answer as to how we can cut the huge debt Labour left us with (yes the very people who spoke at the rally actually created the debt and now moan about cutbacks).
I so hope the left wing leaflet that came through my door today entitled “Aberdeen Voice” has nothing to do with this site, the moment you take a political view no matter what side is the moment you give up the right to call yourself a site of the people.
I guess my personal beliefs or politics would be described as being left-wing, but I strongly dislike the Labour Party (and have good reasons to do so) who I thought were now, very much more a party of the centre than the left.
George, you talk some shite.
I’d quite like to see this leaflet; for Aberdeen Voice (this site) hasn’t produced anything which I know about. If it is implying there is a connection, we’d be interested.
Next week, the remarkable story of pebbles the cat who was stuck up a tree for 3 hours.
No mention of Mr Trump??
I’m shocked.
Jist bidin ma time George. He’s sure tae gie me mair ammunition afore lang.
Thanks Nicola. I’ll have to add it to the reading pile.
That’s bloody brilliant.
Happy Gothenburg Day.
That’s an ace article David.
Would the history of afc been different if folk had had the opportunity of drinking brew dog instead of gold Carlsberg?
Absolutely right George; FYI that other fly-by-night organisation the BBC covered this story as well. It’s good to see you demonstrate your empathy for other living creatures, and I’m touched at your concern that cruelty be prevented, detected and punished where found. Thank you for taking the time to comment to imply this is trivial.
I see his next world’s greatest golf course is to be in Dubai. Just a marginally greater chance there of any claim about it ‘encompassing’ the world’s highest dunes being true. As you say, sad.
It’s amazing the scarcity of golfers playing at Menie, which is something I have heard from different sources. Trump and his self-important staff like Sarah Malone really have fallen on their faces and the dirt will stick to those faces for a long time.
Thank you loons. If I had a can if Carlsberg here right now I’d raise it in a toast to you. Just before I poured it doon the sink and phoned Persley Sewage Works to warn them of dangerous effluent approaching.
No need for Brewdog on 83, Donald. In Neale Cooper we had our own Trashy Blond.
COYR.
Good article yet again Suzanne. I watched David and Paul on TV tonight and couldn’t believe what I was hearing from the SNP twat about there just being a handful of nay-sayers against the development. It beggars belief and just shows up the SNP for the Salmond-worshipping sheep that they are.
Your words are very true Bob. Humans are the most destructive species on the Earth, and they forget that they are biological animals that are dependent on the nature which they are destroying. In the future Homo sapiens will become completely extinct (I predict less than a thousand years), scientists and academics provide theories as to how this will happen. One of the theories I have been thinking about, is that there will be a point of no return, the planet will become so sick by the behaviour and damage of humans, that a point will be crossed without people realising it.
This is a point in time where humans would of had a chance to stop and try to make their habitat healthier (the Earth), before a collapse of natural/biological systems that cannot be reversed. I think this will happen like a cascade and will be the begining of Homo sapiens extinction.
I thank ye fer yer comments Sean, bit michty me a div hope the human race cums tae its sinses lang afore yer thoosan ‘ears is up
I object to the serious implication you make that I have or will receive or accept bribes. I refute entirely your allegations and put you on notice that I consider these defamatory and therefore actionable. I request that you desist from repeating them with immediate effect.
Fighting talk Gillian – where did you learn this ‘see you in court’ approach to public service – let me guess – from the shy and retiring, sexist, racist, bullying carnival huckster aka the Donald?
Good evening Cllr. Owen, perhaps you can answer this for me. Are we perhaps unwise in expecting much from our institutions, and that there is a mismatch between our expectations and reality and that perhaps your constituents expect too much from politics? Perhaps you can explain the lack of clarity about what you perceive are the long-term best interests of the Menie residents. On the other hand, is it wrong that we do rightly believe that councillors should govern in the interests of all, and that there should at least be fairness and a lack of double and shoddy standards?
**STOP PRESS** – Aberdeenshire Council are to consider one Mr Donald Trump’s application to re-name Balmedie “Trumptown.” It is anticipated that this will be nodded through, the norm for any Trump associated project.
This is a very good article which raises some important questions. Recently I read (and this is in several media sources), that Donald Trump is claiming that his “Human Rights” have been breached by the building of wind turbines off Aberdeen bay. I would like the Court of Session (where Mr Trump has now lodged legal action against the EOWDC), to ask TIGLS about the “Human Rights” of the Menie residents which the Trumps have blatantly destroyed.
Goodness, I have read the story above several times and find nothing that implies bribery. I’m worried now because I did consider myself literate. Of course it’s not me being accused so I would have no idea where such implications are in the text. However if I were guilty of such an allegation I would certainly see through any innuendo.
Dear Councillor Owen, I am most pleased that you find time to read my little satirical column; thank you for your interest. I think your comments must have to do with some other article somewhere else, for the word ‘bribe’ appears in your comment and not in the article; heavens forfend!
No doubt you are a champion of freedom of expression, and fully understand the place political satire has in the scheme of things. I am humbled that you found time to comment though. All the best, Suzanne.
PS – just out of interest, did you get any nice food to eat when you visited the Trump course as described in your newsletter, or did they not give you anything at all? There is, I’m told, a fantastic review of the clubhouse restaurant in the P&J today, and although far too pricey for the likes of me to enjoy, I’m sure the food must be special indeed. Cheerio!
I, too, have read the article more than once and am still looking for something that implies bribery. All I can say is that if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Invaluable stuff yet again from Suzanne and Rob, for which there is no other source of info, certainly not wir ain P&J! And why on earth does Aberdeenshire Council allow this to go on? But I agree with A. MacLeod – you can try to pin down a mobile sand dunes system, but the wind and the sea will prevail eventually.
” Aberdeen Voice will report on the repair work once completed.” Has any been done?
work has been done; but ‘completed’ is a not word residents have used to describe it. ‘Chuckies’ have been put down; questions remain as to how suitable this is as a solution, and the drainage issues don’t appear to be addressed. Getting a clear answer from authorities to this and other questions is problematic
To take a quote from Shakespeare : “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
Trump’s development has been the only positive thing to happen up here for years. He has created a world class golf course on a desolate barren beach. I’m not his long lost brother by the way! As for the planning issue you might as well rename Aberdeen Milnetown.
My favourite read is Aberdeen Voice, but as subscriptions were mentioned, I’d like to post the weblink to the sought after publication highly regarded in the local area
https://privateeye.subscribeonline.co.uk/subscriptions/private-eye?personalSubscription=true
Interesting facts about the royal family, their behaviour leaves a lot to be desired.
If you do a we bit of digging about on the net you may find references to the Duke shooting boar in Germany as well. I think he has yet to shoot a ghillie though …
Brilliant picture, it almost makes Alex Salmond look handsome!
River Don Exhibition opens Saturday, June 1, 2013.
5:00pm until 7:00pm.
Join us to celebrate the launch of ‘Surfing the Don: a touring River Don photography exhibition’ in the majestic surroundings of St Machar’s Cathedral.
Surfing the Don is a dynamic community-led photography project celebrating the past, present and future of the river.
Launching at St Machar’s Cathedral with over 140 images then touring the city with subsequent exhibitions at Seventeen, Aberdeen University Library and Aberdeen University’s Natural History Centre.
What a pleasure to read – thank you! 🙂
Great piece, once again Suzanna and thanks mentioning the
Aberdeen Artist’s annual exhibition. Just goes to show what a rich vain of artistic talent we have here in the Deen. Hope you enjoyed the show in the Hammer.
I had no idea about the Gummi Bears. Yuck!
A Trump entity being economical with the facts? Whoever would have thought?
The level of business at the burger van just north of trumpton far surpasses Mrs Bates’ figures….obviously sums are no her strong point
Spot on Julian, A’ve deen ma ain research an I div think yer bein a bittie generous wi yer calculations.
Maist fowk in the Trump Organisation maun suffer fae the “Pinnochio” syndrum faar their noses keep growen.
Don’t you people have life’s to lead, leave the man and his golf course alone, your behaviour is akin to stalking. The vast majority of the people in our City support the course.
Why not use your energy to oppose the planned wind farm that is about to scar our coastline forever.
George,
We shall consider leaving the man alone when he leaves the Forbes, Milne and Munro families alone.Where do you get your evidence that the vast majority in the city support the course. Have you asked every citizen their view.? Thought not.!!!
Please dont say you get your evidence from P&J surveys!!!
“The vast majority of of the people in our city support the course,” George? I wonder what percentage of our good citizens actually play golf? I suspect, many, like myself, have no interest in the “sport” whatsoever and would be hard pressed to afford the fees associated with the Trump venue..
Whaur are your statistics Geordie?
Mr G. Smith, what is it you do not get?
The building of an unneeded golf course on top of a SSSI?
The bullying of the local population?
The lying regarding the economic benefit to the NE community?
I’ve not met one person who has been or who supports it!
The involvement of the younger generation in politics is heartening. They should remember, however, that Holyrood is constrained by reduced funding from Westminster and, consequently, the aspirations of us all, in regard to funding education, among many other things, have to be realistic. Perhaps, if we have the foresight to vote for independence next year, our aspirations may become somewhat more attainable.
Scotland receives more money per head of population than any other region in Britain.
Of course it does Sean – less than it contributes overall true to say. Could it be to do with the low populace over great areas that require more support than the great conurbations of England?
Incidentally Sean, the area of the UK which receives the largest overall subsidy is London. Perhaps that fact would surprise you?
We can take it, despite all the tirades and bluster, that the world’s best hotel, world’s best holiday homes and world’s best whatever else will be built given time. For the Trump organisation not to do so would mean a massive loss on the venture. It is fairly obvious, what ever the level of green fees, those alone cannot provide a significant return on the investment made.
At the end of the day, those playing the course will be watching the ball, not the proposed wind farm which has the potential to bring much greater wealth to the region..
While animal welfare is an important issue, perhaps you’re ire would be better directed at the government who have shown they have little regard for welfare of our fellow citizens. A woman commits suicide over the bedroom tax. Another terminally ill lady, found “fit for work” by the ATOS scam dies days later. Many thousands (including in Aberdeen) are reliant on food banks. Shamefully in 21st century Scotland.
I would rather lose everything I own than exist as a food animal.
Also, the vast majority of us who campaign for animal rights (I’m vegan & believe in animal rights rather than welfare) also campaign for human rights too. I have joined in protests against the cuts & I have the deepest sympathy for the poor woman who committed suicide as a result of the impact of the bedroom tax.
I am perfectly capable of campaigning for both but as much as I dislike everything about this government I am fairly confident that they are not going to remove my teeth without anaesthesia, take my offspring each time I give birth, slaughter me when I am no longer of any use or grind me up alive as a waste product of the egg industry…
Off topic,
Sorry this is off topic, but I have to share an idea with you guys.
Taxman is looking for a fair way to tax ppl in an already unfair tax system.
If the country needs to pull itself out of a hole, why not sell off the BBC? Think about it,
When toys are us sells a Dr who doll, who gets the profits?
The BBC must be worth billions to somebody, we can use the recent 100million Doon ‘e’ swanny as aspringboard for justification.
Ooh! I love windfarms, I also enjoy a game of golf, but golf is a game best taken not too seriously eh? Its more fun when its just a bit of fun eh?
Loving duthie park BTW,
the subsidised buses full of oap’s riding for free, are tearing up the speedbumps in cove, can they be made to renew please? (not the oap’s – bless em.)
Also, local gov should let ppl know how much things cost. The Manny that looks after the council greenspaces in my area looks like he comes all the way up from Glasgow. Maybe local entrepreneurs could do it cheaper and it would drive council costs down as a result?
Erm, thanx! 🙂
I love nice tatties, I could eat stovies or chip suppers every day. One of the things I like best about Scotland is the food. I’m mad on skirlie too, but when ever I try to make it, it never tastes as fine as when somebody else has made it.
Sean,
A’m a great lover o skirlie as weel.Bit aabody maks it ower dry nooadays. The only placie fit made affa gweed skirlie wis the Metro Hotel[noo the Rox} in Mairket Street.
One of these days Donald Trump will announce he’s abandoning this golf project, it will be a good day to watch the news.
I very much doubt it Sean. All the people who’s money he’s using would object strongly. The want payback!
Oh, but didn’t you know – Trump’s paying for all of this out of the change in his back pocket. Do you honestly think anyone would be so stupid as to invest with him?
All slaughting needs to stop period animals do fee pain and do want to live
Wow so true, it makes me ashamed to be human. We really are brain washed, people have a right to see how animal food is created so they can make a true decision should they eat meat.
I can just imagine all you do gooders if Mr Trump was behind the windfarm plan, fact is none of you care about the environment or the people living at Menie, you’re just a bunch of socialists who hate the man because of his wealth.
Why no uproar at the tens of people being forced out of their homes in Tillydrone because of a bridge? again if a rich person was behind that you’d all be out with your placards.
Hypocrites.
George, I want to reply to your post, but until you make it clear who you are referring to by the terms ‘you people’, ‘you do-gooders’ and ‘bunch of socialists’, I am at a loss where to start.
If you could actually engage with the issues in the article you are commenting on, then it might look a lot less as if you come on here purely to insult people you dont agree with.
Excuse me George, but who are all the “hundreds” being turfed out of their homes in Tillydrone? That’s news to everyone.
George,
I have never read such a load of clap trap in my life.If you care to take the trouble to read the articles which have appeared in AV re Trump you shall see clearly many are concerned about the environment and the Menie families. The fact he is rich has got damn all to do with it.Democracy has however a lot to do with what has happened at Menie.As regards the bridge being built over the Don which shall effect the residents of Tillydone I would point you in the direction of a poem which appeared in the AV -“A BRIG OWER FAR”
Fred,
I don’t agree with people hounding Mr Trump, even if no one ever played the course is it really public interest, why not snoop into other local golf courses to see how many people are playing them? It’s clear the site has a large socialist following, the same people slap the same backs week in week out.
Instead of counting how many golfers are using a course they should perhaps be visiting Union Terrace gardens, the garden “they saved” (nothing to do with a rich man being involved), it still remains empty and desolate, it was dropped like a hot potato as soon as the next big bandwagon came along for them to jump on.
I’m still amazed that the next bandwagon isn’t a massive wind farm on our shores, I’ll tell you why no one cares about it? because of a blind hatred of a rich American. It sickens me that seemingly intelligent people only care when a rich person can be opposed. Dress it up and deny it all you like but this is a socialist mouth piece of a site.
Tillydrone, plenty of people being kicked out of their homes, I mean actually kicked out, not a Menie where no one was evicted, no rich person involved so who cares.
The Aberdeen VOICE, don’t make me laugh.
OK, I get ye. If anything is not being addressed in Aberdeen Voice George, it is because no-one is bothering to write about it. You know how we work, as you have been told more than once. We have also invited you to write a piece and offered assistance if necessary. To date, nothing, outwith the comments boxes, usually having a go at folks who do actually make the effort.
This always reminds me of that football fan who will shout for 90 minutes about the shortcomings of a particular player, verbally abuse him for his mistakes and tell him what they should be doing instead …. when all the time, said ‘football fan’ is incapable of jogging 20 yards without turning blue.
The latest articles about Menie have come from people who are either very familiar with the situation on the ground at Menie, or who actually live in the area. We would of course welcome news, info and opinion pieces from people similarly connected with the issues at Tillydrone, or Bridge of Don for that matter. Having already published material about the Don crossing, it should be plain that we are receptive to such input. But again, you know that George.
As to your insults, and for not making you laugh, what I find more laughable is being labelled a ‘bunch of socialists’ or a ‘socialist mouthpiece’ by someone who has fairly recently voiced support for the EDL and their thug leader Tommy Robinson. Perhaps it’s all comparative George, in which case, the mouldering corpse of ol’ Maggie T is a raving lefty compared to the position you appear to be coming from – so please forgive me for not weeping into my scarlet banner.
To cap it all, a guy who’s living depends on the installation of hulking great structures all around our shores, boring through the earth’s crust, bringing with them the risk of extensive pollution, believes there should be more opposition to a dozen wind turbines??
Did I see the word ‘Hypocrite’ written somewhere?
Another piece of advice George, especially if you change your mind and think of writing an article for AV, whenever you use the words ‘fact is’ in a sentence, it is a very good idea to follow up with something you not only know to be factual, but can demonstrate to be factual…. not a series of groundless accusations aimed at no-one in particular other than some figment of your own imagination.
Also when questioning why no-one is taking a particular action on a particular issue, first ask yourself what you yourself are doing about it.
In spite of what you think, and would encourage others to think George, Aberdeen Voice does welcome differing views on issues…. whether here in the comments section, or as a contributed article. But there is a difference between presenting an opposing view or challenging the basis of a writers work, and dishing out unsubstantiated accusations and insults – a difference which you would do well to study if you expect to be taken seriously.
Well said Fred.
George
Sticking to the facts, it isn’t easy to monitor usage of golf courses. It is labour intensive, even where there is an online facility like at TIGL. But you do have a point here.
As a means of using a benchmark, I monitor the 5 courses at St Andrews that are bookable online, so I can get a feeling for the general pattern of golfing on a particular day in Scotland. These five courses are usually almost fully booked – I think the maximum number of empty slots on a single day this season has been around 15 (across the five courses together), and it’s usually around 5 to 10. Most days at the Trump course there’s 15 free slots or more and that’s just for the one course. The figures for both TIGL and St Andrews are checked at the same time – after 6pm on the night before.
I am not sufficiently informed about the other points you make so cannot comment on them;. But I can say I had not taken much notice of Mr Trump until I heard of what he was doing at Menie. So my “blind hatred of a rich American” has only come about because of his actions in Aberdeenshire, and a growing understanding of his arrogant, bullying, self-agrandising, and totally self-centred approach to business and relationships with others. In the UK we have just gone through quite a bit of trauma coming to terms with abuse through bullying by people in “show business” (eg the recent resident of Glencoe, Jimmy Saville). We must surely learn to stand up to bullies, even if they are rich americans.
Julian,
You didn’t just compare Donald Trump antics at Mennie to the long list of paedophilia acts by Jimmy Saville? I know the guy is distasteful but really that’s one very poor comparison, and you told George to stick to the facts!!!
No Jim, I didn’t. I said the common issue was bullying. I certainly had no intention of suggesting that Trump was up to the things that Saville was up to. And I apologise if that’s how it read.
And there in a nutshell is why I wouldn’t write an article here, have you dug into the background of any other writer here?
Personal information made public by yourself does not require any digging George, and can hardly be described as ‘background’.
So two more pieces of advice.
1. Dont post info you dont want to be known, and,
2. People in glasshouses ….
So my facebook page is me making information available to the public?
I think for myself Fred unlike the blind followers here, If I want to voice my opinion I will.
Julian’s latest reply even has me shaking my head in disbelief, he’s comparing a newly built golf course with historic old courses that have stood for over a 100 years, like any new course it will take time to grow and flourish, compare with like for like links courses if you want a real comparison. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond belief.
Perhaps Julian would be better spending his time researching how much damage offshore wind farms do and how much subsidies they need to operate, that is the real danger facing Aberdeen at the moment, along with plans for a “super” mosque we could see our coastline scarred forever. A links golf course doesn’t even register when it comes to the real issues.
Not that I expect a Socialist website to even think about covering the concerns of placing a huge building at our beachfront, Mr Trump or Wood should offer to fund it, that might do the trick.
Sounds like Sasha to me.
You can keep your rice and your pasta, supermarket bread and new age grains – give me tatties any time. I get Golden Wonders from Newbiggin Farm near Inverurie – they are golden wonderful!!
Brewdog mention – Check
Wasting police time – Check
Slag off rich business owner and local employer- Check
Well done Susannah, great article, same again next week please.
Society would be very much poorer without people and writers like Suzanne.
Totally agree Sean. Just a shame our local press can’t compile such effective and factual exposes.
Destruction of SSSI’s – Check
Intimidation of residents – Check
Ignoring planning law – Check
Oops. I seem to be getting mixed up with somoen else and his cohorts George. Sorry!
Very well put Sue!!!
Great article Sue. This should be sent to the BBC, STV and all national newspapers. And still the local authority and the Scottish Gvt. do nothing. It bodes ill for Scotland.
The bus service in Aberdeen is a disgrace and it’s amazing how rude the bus drivers are.
I think there are lots of local people who have no idea of what is going on and this does deserve a much wider audience. The Daily Mail would probably love an article like this.
I hate the shopping centres in Aberdeen, and one of the worst things to have happened in the city was the building of Union Square.
Never been in it Sean (Union Square) and no intention of going in either.
Just a shame that his “new” course hadn’t been the original one, leaving the SSSI intact and avoiding all the acrimony and annoyance to the residents. No one likes a bully and Trump has proved himself to be such on so many occasions. Perhaps, as a condition of allowing his new course to be built, Aberdeenshire Council should insist that the original plans be implemented and and all constructions/deviations from them should be put right. We can but live in hope.
Having no car (nor do I want one), I find the bus service in Aberdeen as good as any other Scottish city. Yes, the fares are expensive but bargains are to be had (The Stagecoach Megarider springs to mind). Yes, they do get delayed by traffic. Yes, they do break down now and again. On the whole, the drivers are courteous and efficient. If you are pleasant to them, then they will reciprocate. As the contibutor notes, it is stressfull driving in Aberdeen. Given our bus and lorry drivers have to do it for many hours daily, is it any wonder they can be a tetch grumpy at times? They are only human after all. Excepting the peak periods, understandably, buses are fairly reliable, if you care to take the trouble to consult the timetable.
I agree most are lovely drivers, we are all capable of having our off days drivers too. Timetables are always consulted, buses do not always turn up. I still maintain that you never know what is going on in a persons life, they may experiencing the worst of their fears, if you are in a job of any type of service then it remains your job to be polite. I would still opt for the bus over the car however 🙂
Got to agree with you Smithy. I’ve no car, no “labels”, no flat screen telly, dvd player or cd player or smartphone. I live in a council flat and have modest income, but you know what? I’m happy! Wonder of all those individuals who crave everything consumerist and get themselves in to massive debt acquiring it can say likewise?
I think it’s a safe bet that Nigel and his motly crew will have minimal support in Scotland. The term “smarmy git,” springs to mind. Not the type of person Scots are drawn to naturally.
For sure Ron but beware the ides of march …
So well put. Having voted SNP all my life I wonder how I could possibly vote for them again given Alex Salmond’s imput into the Menie fiasco. This is our indigenous people being treated so badly for what? ‘inward investment?’ do we need this in the Aberdeen area? No! I intend to ask my MSP why the Menie residents have been treated to badly, why in an SSI tarmac was laid, fences were pushed in, bunds were built…..this is wrong! Living in rural Galloway this could also happen here under the guise of ‘plenty jobs’…no, not at any cost, before we vote for independence we must find out the integrity of our leaders.
If only the voice could host some sort of competition where entrants could win a copy of this book.
The Lib-Dems once did the same a few years ago when putting out a pre-election newsletter called “Ferryhill Focus” to the public – the same name as our own strictly non-political Community Council Quarterly Newsletter which had been published for years and distributed all over Ferryhill. However, as we always supplied the British Library and Aberdeen Central Library with a copy, I, as Editor, complained to Aberdeen City Council and the L-Ds had to cease using the name immediately. Unfortunately, I presume that as ‘Aberdeen Voice’ is not a printed publication, it possibly doesn’t have any copyright protection? Correct me if I am wrong!
Irene Bryce, Ferryhill, Aberdeen.
Not sure Irene, you make some very good points here. Aberdeen Voice has been on the go for 3 years and is non-partisan. I am not sure how old the Aberdeen Labour party is.
Irene,
The name Aberdeen Voice wouldn’t fall under the auspices of Copyright Law, instead it’d come under Trademark laws. Copyright is to do with the creation and protection of original material whereas Trademark laws protect the identity of brands and companies.
In any case the there is little to no difference between a printed document or a web document and in AV’s case we can prove that we’ve been publishing for that period by showing old articles and also the fact we own the domain name for that period. That would be sufficient for copyright law, but for trademark we’d need to register the name/branding with the IPO.
hoping all this will be over soon for you both and can get back to normal , the bus service here in edinburgh is not to great either trish which i hate taking , always some ass hole like a junkie , drunk or some other making the journey not a pleasant one lol x x x x x
Well missed indeed!
Keep at it Suzanne, great work so far, the truth will out.
Brilliant Suzanne. Verily it needs to become part of North East folklore methinks!!
Brilliant Suzanne!!
Verily this needs to go down in North East folklore methinks!!!!
That’s a very fine tribute, Hall. I hope you saw his interview with Kirsty Wark the other night. It was very moving but funny as f**k too !!
I did Ruth and found it to be an amazingly poignant and dignified example of a man who had come to terms with his own mortality.
Oh yes and funny as f*ck as well!
J Scott Skinner wrote a tune called “The Bonnie Lass O Bon Accord” Pity he wasn’t around to compose one about a certain Trumpophile and entitle it “The Bonnie Ass O Bon Accord”
After the malevolent behaviour of Aberdeen City Council and it’s chums in stopping Peacock Visuals Arts development in Union Terrace Gardens; I thought it was a joke the first time I heard the council wanted Aberdeen to be known as the “City of Culture”.
Like the Ostrich, I suspect that the City of Culture Award Committee ran like the wind from Aberdeen’s application. Seemingly the large,long legged, flighless birds can achieve over 40mph over a level playing field.
Wow, what an amazing story, it seems yet again that the police have bungled their way through this situation ,I hope that they are made to explain their ineptitude and that Dod is suitably compensated for his terrible treatment, this is no way to treat a “victim of circumstance “, especially someone who suffers a medical condition such as Dod.
There was no blunder. The police are nought but vandals, and will destroy anything within reach. Whether there is any reason to believe they have a legal, exigent or no right to do so. A long prison term as well as restitution is appropriate by the political unit, and the vandals themselves.
I had no idea that this had happened to Dod, that’s disgusting! Sadly though I am not surprised about the appalling way in which he was treated. My partner is still fighting Aberdeen police after a similar incident over 5 years ago where they inapropriately used CS gas on him amongst other things.
Dod I wish you well and will watch this space with interest.
Firstly thanks to the Aberdeen Voice for exposing this scandalous story. This is an astonishing abuse of power and totally unacceptable, I intend to write to Police Scotland expressing my disquiet and for them to explain their outrageous treatment of an innocent man, I will also contact my MSP regarding this matter.
flabbergasted,upon reading this first thing ,had to re-read ,then check calendar to see not april 1rst.unfortunately not the case and only too real.incomprehendible set of circumstances leading to an innocent party bein de-humanised ,forfeited rights and medical treatment,not forgetting anguish of invasiveness of ones home.it would appear that once a known character ,stooping to a new low is not beyond (human) ,used loosely,capabilities.i hope to see favourable outcome at some point,hope youre rising above all this Dod,and keeping in good health.my feather duster now taking backseat incase of reprisals,just be careful when using your “Armoury” especially hoover which in certain light might be mis-construed as weapon of mass destruction,when clearing up damage done.thoughts are with you.good luck.x
Shocking story. Dod, I hope you get compensation + some resolution to this appalling incident.
If he hadn’t commited a offence in the first place they wouldn’t of needed to do a search of his home and whats to say he didn’t damage his things to get sympathy??? He wasted police and tax payers money by phoning say’n someone was being held hostage!!! karma springs to mind!!!!
Dear Laura – oh dear; I guess my writing has somehow caused you to reach the wrong conclusion. The man who resides in this flat did not place the hoax call. He was not there during the siege; he was completely innocent of anything warranting a siege, making any hoax calls or anything but having toys and a fuzzy orange brush. I hope you will take back your implication that he would have trashed his flat deliberately; if you don’t know, when police search premises, they can be extremely destructive. Please let me know what part of the story has you confused. I will find another way to explain it all if this comment has not helped you. Thank you, Suzanne
Gweed Sakes Laura quine.A despair!!!! Foo in hell’s name cwid ye git the hoaxer mixed up wi Mr Copland .
Shocked but no longer surprised at the police. After the Menie debacle you would think one of the high heidyuns at Lodgewalk would have learned a valuable lesson but their complete ineptitude and abandon of care shows them to be the halfwits we already knew them to be.
As for you Laura, can you not read, digest and think more carefully before posting such utter tripe?
You’re referring to Liverpool in this as a UK City of Culture, it was in fact, a European City of Culture. THis year is the first time a UK CoC has been tried, and Londonderry won it. Aberdeen pulled out of the race 4 years ago when it was considering going for 2013.
yours, Phil.
Good point; thank you. We can still use the Liverpool experience to use as a benchmark. I have read a few reports, written by those who were behind the events as well as Private Eye pieces which were hardly a ringing endoresment for this scheme or Liverpool’s implementation. Hard to get black and white (or should I say red) figures on how Liverpool did. We do know costs were incurred, and public money was used. I see the same financial bottom line for the UK version of this competition; we’ll see how it turns out. Or not – as at present Aberdeen don’t even seem to want us to be able to read what their submission was. Watch this space… PS – I hope the Lord Provost will make this a year of cultural events – open to people of all ages, financial backgrounds and abilities.
Funny really… Dundee seemed to have acheived all this with little or no fuss. Take the DCA ( Dundee Contemporary Arts): invisaged in 1996 by Dundee Printmakers Workshop and realised in 1999 at a cost of £9million. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Difference is, no alternative proposal to scupper it, along with the baggage of two referendums and media hype which only served to divide opinion.
Dundee now have an established, internationally renowned contemporary arts centre in a prominent city centre location. In Aberdeen we have an internationally renowned contemporary arts centre and workshop stuck down a close off the Castlegate.
It could have been so different.. but what the hey….
I’ve always enjoyed my visits to Dundee, I’m glad they were short listed for the “City of Culture” award. The people are friendlier and it feels much safer to be out and about during the day or night.
I hope George recovers soon after this very unpleasant experience. It reminded me of the intimidation I have received from council staff, while living in a similar council house.
No smoke without fire, the police don’t just do that and wreck his things, load of rubbish.
Anyone want to send Mr Smith some proof to the contrary? There is no shortage of it for the UK
The police would certainly do that during a search for weapons or drugs, I would certainly be wondering what the hoaxer said during his interview for them to take follow up action.
I dread to think what the consequences would have been if Dod had actually been inside his home. I hope he’s OK after this disgraceful nightmare.
As a journalist I am astonished this has been published without waiting for the police comment.
The 29 year old was detained, not arrested, on suspicion of wasting police time. He was later released without charge pending further inquiries.
This article is far from legally sound, extremely concerning given it’s spreading quickly across social media.
The police were approached prior to publication twice. They have failed thusfar to reply to me and to at least one other journalist at a major broadcaster. In the public interest the story was published; as the article states, we will print a police reply when received.
Thank you for your concern as to the use of the word ‘arrested’ instead of the word ‘detained’; please feel free to share this concern with the Evening Express, which wrote:- “However, no one was inside and a 29-year-old man was later arrested in connection with wasting police time.” in its article which can be found here: http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/3271733 Having said that, the AV editorial team have changed my word ‘arrested’ for the word ‘detained’.
The purpose of this article is to make the public aware of the story Mr Copland shared with AV; again, the police are free to respond, and I hope to hear from them on this matter soon.
As it stands, the treatment he told me about – following an event days earlier at his home which was triggered by an acknowledged hoax call – is extremely worrying and unacceptable. I hope you can agree that is what is at issue.
Here is the story in the Scottish Sun – the photo of the flat is shocking. As someone waiting for the police to get back to them, I was surprised to see the police comment in the Sun piece – they say they have corroborated reports of a man with a firearm, and that is what sparked their search.
I therefore suggest anyone who owns an air rifle (which I don’t approve of by the way) to expect their flat to be trashed as well. But as the air rifle in question was, I am told, not on display or in use, but in a locked space, I am baffled by the corroborated report. We need to find out what time this report of a firearm was made and whether there is a connection between the people who reported it and the hoax caller. If Copland was not at his flat at the time the report was made – he wasn’t there at the siege and he wasn’t there when arrested – there are some large questions to be answered http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4979571/Huckle-duster-gaffe-as-cops-grill-man-over-fluffy-cleaning-aid.html
Look at it from the police point of view a point of view where public safety is paramount. Someone states that a person has a gun and is willing to use it (I will point out some air rifles and air pistols can look very real to someone who doesn’t know) Someone known to the police who has a history of mental health problems by his own admission, they go to the property and find a gun but no owner, two other’s confirm the original accuser’s story and the police then go looking for and search any other property where he may have stashed a weapon. Surely this is standard procedure you see it every day on the news when someone is arrested on suspicion of something the police will search friends and family’s property. It is also the detainee’s prerogative to ask for a lawyer to be present during questioning not the police to appoint one.
Let’s now look at recent gun crime history in the UK Dunblane there are still on-going accusations and calls for a public enquiry into the actions of authorities in not identifying Thomas Hamilton as a threat despite countless complaints about him.
I am in no way comparing Dod or this case to the actions of Thomas Hamilton, only trying to show the difficult decisions that have to be made by police and authorities with the information they have at the time. Will they get it right every time no but they are only human, can any of you say that every decision you have made was right especially when your under pressure and have 3 people telling you the same thing ?
Personally I would rather see a hundred innocent citizens searched detained and questioned if it stops 1 more massacre.
Hello Jim, when the police get it wrong, firstly I expect that they will make restitution for broken possessions, apologise, and undo damage done. Secondly, this newly-released statement that they had corroborated evidence of someone with a gun makes very little sense at present. When did this exactly happen? Surely not at the time they arrested Copland at his girlfriend’s house in the wee hours. If they had reports of a gunman, I’d like to know where the gunman was, where the gunman was, and how much time elapsed between reports of the gunman and the police going to the scene. This story is at present not adding up, except to be that anyone with an air rifle (which I do not like at all but which is legal) or a remote control toy is fair game as a suspect and their rights and property do not matter. I expect the decisions the police take to be made to the letter of the law. If a suspect says he needs medication for that matter, and a doctor is promised as Copland says, what went wrong? Why did they release the name of the hoax caller to Copland – what due procedure is this? Sorry, I am not seeing much about the siege or Copland’s arrest that I would call standard at all.
Expect a follow up story shortly.
Suzanne you have one side of this story why are there 3 people with the same story the hoaxers name never came from the police but from Dod himself Fact I hope you get the truth
Dear Jim, I do hope the police will give me the information I requested soon; it will be published. With regard to your comments, we need to make sure we are not muddling two different events. 1. a hoax caller – acknowledged to be a hoax – said a gunman was inside a flat which was empty. The police arrested a 29 year old man for wasting police time in this regard. 2. As to the ‘corroborated’ report of a ‘male with a firearm’ this must be a different event – otherwise clearly the police would have had to arrest the corroborators for being part of the acknowledged hoax. 3. When arrested, it was early morning, and days after the hoax – Copland was not found with any gun. Therefore it certainly seems either the 2 incidents were days apart or if not, that the police took their time about reports of someone running around with a firearm, or they somehow decided the gunman had to be Copland, and then arrested him later on – did they leave a gunman on the streets? Until we know what time the ‘male with firearm’ report and corroboration came in, and where the gunman allegedly was, these two episodes – the hoax and Copland’s arrest do not in my opinion inspire faith in the police or assure me of their openness and transparency after the arrest of someone who is not guilty of a crime.
You seem certain ‘the hoaxer’s name never came from the police but from Dod himself Fact’ – can you please supply me with evidence of this claim you make, many thanks.
While I’m disappointed that the city missed out on the City of Culture bid, I can’t say I’m surprized by it. I don’t think that we should pursue the idea to have a year of culture in 2017 if Dundee win it would be hard to attract visitors with the main event going on 60 miles south, but I do believe the council and committee should push on with making culture more widely available in Aberdeen. With the sale of Woolmanhill Hospital there is an opportunity for ACC to create an area of culture in Aberdeen city centre from HMT to the Gallery Wollmanhill to the triple kirks. As pointed out Peacocks is located down a lane in the Castle gate wouldn’t it be beneficial to all if it moved to an iconic building the triple kirks ACC could look into buying it through compulsory purchase. Woolmanhill would have plenty of room to create studios for photography, art, dancing and drama.
The previous City of Culture winners – ‘Derry and Liverpool – were both in urgent need of regeneration. The same can’t be said for Aberdeen can it? OK, we have The Haudupagain and weeds growing out of half the empty shops in Union Street, but we have a good industrial base and high employment (thanks to the oil) compared to Dundee which has suffered from high unemployment for decades.The heady days of jute, jam and journalism are long gone alas.
Did this prestigious award benefit any of the ordinary folk in ‘Derry and Liverpool I wonder? Would it have done anything for ordinary folk in Aberdeen, or Dundee for that matter? Given £1m plus was wasted by the SNP on The Granite Web fiasco, I suppose we should be grateful that Labour only wasted £500k on The City of Culture bid. That £1.5m would have gone a long way to building a railway halt at Muggiemoss or Cove which would have been much more use than any “award.”
Surely if weapons were being looked for sniffer dogs would be more effective and leave less mess – the photos in a national paper yesterday looked more like a herd of rhinos had torn through the place. Good luck Dod. Keep your chin up.
I hope all you people who objected to the UTG project and the regeneration of our City Centre are proud of yourselves, we now have nothing but an empty hole in the ground and an ever dwindling Centre.
I went into UTG when the International market was in town, despite a busy bustling Union Terrace the garden was empty, my daughter objected to even going down the stairs as she was scare of the place.
And to think a local businessman was going to donate £50 Million from his own pocket to take the current shambles to street level and people still moaned! Let’s not forget the referendum where the people of Aberdeen spoke, an utter disgrace that a small minority shouted loudly and got their wish against the wishes of the majority.
When we’re up against people like that it is no surprise the City of Culture bid got nowhere, our City is a crumbling disgrace and we have the worst Nimbys in the whole World, a golf course can’t even be built without the usual suspects stomping their feet, to hell with what the people want, WE KNOW BETTER!
The Gardens were empty when The International Market was on George were they? What did you expect. In regard to The “City Garden Project” : You conveniently forget that Sir Ian said he would, “walk away,” if Aberdonian’s voted against his proposal initally. They did and he didn’t. They were then bombarded with downriight lies and a myriad of half truths, leading to a marginal vote in favour (20% of the population voted if I recollect correctly – a minority of the population?). We had “consultations” where a fair number of comments were not recorded because they were “inconvenient” to the proponents. That devious effort of the business community getting their hands on a prime city centre site is now dead thankfully. Live with it George.
Iansorry “George” clearly you haven’t read the recent released information on the economics of the plan, which show that if it had went ahead, we’d have been left with a half finished building site for the next decade as there was no way it could be afforded and there was a massive shortfall in donations.But don’t let fiscal reality or common sense knock you off your tedious and ill-informed taxi-driver rant soap-box. Amazing how anti-cultural plebs still fixate on CGP years later, like a crazed monkey banging it’s head against a cage. There’s plenty other dummies out there to chew on, little cry baby.
Before judging our city of culture bid as failing due to this project, might be an idea to broaden your horizons and get a feel for what culture actually is. Here’s a starter tip for Philistines like yourself. It’s not another boring shopping centre, fields of concrete, architectural vandalism or kissing the arse of big business.
There was only one referendum, democracy was ignored, something I never thought I’d ever see in my Home City. I for one wasn’t aware of an initial consultation, of course all the activists were and voted several times.
You reap what you sow and now have the City centre you deserve.
The socialist mindset that all rich people must be opposed has done enough damage in our City, time you gave it a rest for the good of the vast majority.
And Ron, yes they were empty, despite it being a really nice day and the Terrace mobbed, it’s past its sell by date, instead of a vibrant Centre we’ve been left with a dank hole in the ground surrounded by roads and rail lines, again well done all those involved.
I’ve read with interest that a friend of the activists plans to open a cafe down there, I despair that anyone would think that is going to make one bit of difference towards City regeneration or improve the area, a pathetic gesture.
Perhaps next time you sit in Brewdog in your Arran jumpers flying red flags discussing your next crusade you’ll take a step back and take a look at the damage you’ve already done to the city.
Dear George, Perhaps it slipped your memory, but from the outset Labour said they would not be bound by any referendum, because they had problems with the idea from the start. There was a great deal wrong with the referendum; for one thing it was waged by the pro-web side using huge amounts of money which the people who wanted to save our green space would never be able to match. The bias of the local printed press also helped; they printed scores of pro-web propaganda, much of which doesn’t stand up to the slightest amount of scrutiny.
The referendum was filled with problems as I wrote at the time. The project won this skewed contest with the smallest of margins for a massive expense. Labour had said –‘vote for us and we will stop the granite web.’ The public voted Labour in. They stopped the web. (Indications are that they have some saner, more affordable plans for our city as well, hopefully which will not involve borrowing nearly 100 million on a precarious TIF loan. Sadly, Salmond can’t stop punishing us for our choice. He will soon learn to leave the web out of it, mark my words.
The park will be greatly improved by a social enterprise – we can finally have a coffee/snack/socialising area which every single other major city in the UK has in its parks. The profits will be 100% put to fixing the gardens further. We had a past administration which squandered money on ridiculous schemes while cutting services to the most needy groups in society, and of course while neglecting our common good land.
It’s a park. It’s ours. It’s not a development opportunity.
You’re never going to get over it, but as long as you and others refuse to look at brownfield oportunities and leave the park alone, I and others will point out where your thinking is going wrong. Guess I won’t be seeing you at BrewDog; a great shame. The creativity, open-mindeness, intelligence of its customers, staff and founders alike would benefit you, as perhaps a pint of Punk IPA would as well. Tally ho.
I’m well aware you are a friend of the cafe owner, so please don’t bore me with bias claims, pot kettle.
Your Socialist agenda reeks, almost every article you write is an attack on either big business or a rich person, you need to stop basing your thoughts in such a bias manner.
You and others like you have ruined the only chance we have of seeing proper regeneration, a cafe in a shed and a lick of paint isn’t going to make that park busy, it isn’t going to regenerate the area either. Take off your blinkers and see the damage you’re doing, people voted for it, no matter how you spin it your side lost, at least have the decency to respect democracy.
Our City Centre is a shambles, one man offered a life line, of course the ultra rent a mob trade union type lefties wouldn’t be having that, we want our dank manky hole in the ground, how dare a rich man try and improve such a huge underused crap space, hoe dare he use money to fund surrounding regeneration.
Your ilk think you’re intelligent and above the working man but you never will be, ever, you can’t think logically as your mind is so anti establishment, you do damage to the citizens of the City where I was born and raised, you create nothing.
So you sit drinking your crap over priced beer and pat yourselves on the back, but perhaps afterwards visit union street on the way home, see the shambles you’ve left behind, all because you couldn’t stand a rich man wanting to improve the area.
A raised square would have brought a cafe culture, concerts, exhibitions, markets, ice rink, a real focal point for the people to gather, think of that next time you gaze over the railway lines and dual carriageway.
George Smith, can you help me explain why, on reading your posts, the words ‘medication, lie, down, darkened’, and ‘room’ keep running through my mind?
Well thought out reasoned debate Gary, well done.
The play park is another bizarre idea, what right minded parent would let their child go play in there without constant supervision, the park is a magnet for drunks and drug takers. My daughter is 14 and wouldn’t dream of going down there with her friends.
With it raised the green space would have doubled, families would have been drawn to it, roll on the next election so we can replace this joke of a council and get the project underway.
George: I live near to and pass the park regularly, occasionally using it for what it was intended. I’d love to know where you get all this nonsense about alcoholics and drug taking individuals overtaking it, unless you’re talking after dark, when all parks attract dubious individuals. I regularly see families down there on a sunny day, especially when some event is being held. Perhaps it’s your warped outlook on life being passed on to your child that is affecting her?
George
What a load of absolute bloody codswallop. My wife and I have for years used the Gardens as a
place to get from Union Street to Schoolhill. The amount of times in all these years we have seen anyone resembling “undesirables”. could be counted on one hand.FACT!!! There are more druggies and alchoholics walking up and down Union Street in one day than you would see in the gardens in a year. FACT!!
I stopped buying Aberdeen Journals “newspapers” in the seventies because of their disgraceful role in the process that led to the sacking of Summerhill School head teacher R.F. Mackenzie in 1974.
The story was the subject of at least two Open University TV programmes. One pointed out that the fuss was dying down and the local newspapers decided to stir it up again.
No doubt good for sales.
In my view, the school never really recovered and is now a pile of dust.
I’m afraid to admit that newspapers are purveyors of newspapers and not purveyors of truth.
They each have an agenda. There is a very good living to be made by promoting an agenda. They are really propaganda sheets.
Is the Aberdeen Journals/DC Thomson agenda a force for good or ill?
You decide.
“Scotland will be free, said the historian Tom Nairn, when the last minister is strangled by the last copy of the Sunday Post.”
Oh dear. Our “George” is going to go apoplectic at this one. He can add it to his hysterical rants about drunks and addicts which we mere mortals never see.
All animals should be given a chance. It’s time we stepped in and for the Government to take the Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006 in to consideration, before it’s too late.
Duncan Min,
Aat wis affa interestin
Doin ma best Bob. Ye ken athing aboot the Turra Coo? Its around the 100th anniversary this year. Fancy a cooperative wee venture on the subject? Apoligies for my “Doric”.
A tragic story. Such a shame it appears there’s no screenings in Scotland.
There was one in Aberdeen at Rubislaw Church I think plus one in Dundee. You can organise a local screening by following the links and borrowing a copy of the film.
This is a lovely story, unfortunately I love to eat chicken. I only managed eight months as a vegetarian when I was in my twenties, I do feel guilty at times eating meat but it’s far too difficult being a veggie.
Actually it’s a no comment from me, people can live whatever life they choose as long as it doesn’t affect my life.
The AWPR will cut pollution rates, the less time spent in cars and less people sitting at bottlenecks can only be good for the City, roll on and get it built.
A few horses getting moved in the big scheme of things doesn’t really register. They’ll be well compensated for the land and buildings.
There seems to be no limit to Mr Smith’s talents; he seems to be an equine expert on top of the rest of his skills. However, the rest of us were reading an article in which those who run Blaikiewell Sanctuary explained that the compensation offered is not enough money to maintain the 60 horses they care for in suitable premises, let alone take in any more animals. All at a time when horses and ponies are being dumped across the UK due to the financial mess everyone is in (well, except those who shelter money offshore that is). Tally ho!
I am really impressed that the Voice is able to publish this stuff. Dogging, after all is a minority pursuit and wont sell digital papers. Perhaps the Aberdeen daily should take a lead from this initiative.
George, that is the most honest and illuminating comment I have seen from you to date, and sums you up rather well … particularly the ‘as long as it doesn’t affect my life’.
Kinda gives a new perspective to the folks you slur as red flag waving, backward looking, arran jersey wearing, brewdog frequenting, anti progress, etc,etc, etc, in that you appear to have a problem with folks who want to make a better environment for others ( including their offspring ) than just for themselves ….. Looks like you have just admitted that your real problem with your imaginary enemies is that they might just have the capacity to affect “your life” … you poor thing!
Now George, how about you have a wee review of the occasions you have brandished the ‘NIMBY’ label at others, and reflect on how it fits on your own napper in light of the above post. It all becomes clear …. we are all stupid if we dare suggest that we value anything above what affects the life of George Smith …
All hail Dod Smith for the value and status of his life is so much greater than the lives of all others that it must not to be affected by the views, acts or omissions by others whatever their social standing or term of office.
… In fact, lets just do as ther above article suggests …. but rename Dogging as Dodding as a mark of reverence and respect, … hey, might even scare away all those hordes of junkies, winos, paedophiles, dirtbags, etc we are led to believe are a constant presence ( by folks who have never been there of course ) And so I say, ….. in the name of the Lord Dod, make it so! 🙂
Yikes Fred! I’m sure our George is really a lovable cratur in reality.
Just stumbled upon this story, I am Kathryn’s (founder of homes4hens) Husband. she will be really pleased. Thank you for this write up.
If anybody reads this and would like to give a home to some ex-farmed hens, homes4hens now has collection points in Falkirk, Glasgow, Dumfries, Carlisle and Galashiels,
Oh dear.
Duncan. They’ll be among the first to take advantage of the cheap rents when the new Western Peripheral Industrial and Retail corridor opens.
Good point Dave. To be honest I am surprised they failed to exploit the gap left when MFI went bust a year or so back. The removal man also told me that he had seen IKEA’s Polish factory which he described as being as a “monsterous forest munching machine!”
Correction: Aberdeenshire Council in house team will take on the ACSEF PR contract, not the City Council.
Absolutely – thank you for correcting! Error fixed now. (NB Aberdeen Voice used to receive a large number of press releases from BiG; I understand we would be happy to be kept in the loop by the in-house team as well)
First they kowtow to Trump, now this. Protecting the public? My @rse.
Bring IKEA to Aberdeen. No No and thrice times no!!!!
Bob, wheres your sense of fun? After all we need more material for landfill …
Ok Duncan. A tak yer point.Ye’d need a helluva big landfill tae tak aa IKEA’s crap.Mind ye you cwid aye use the big bunkers on Donald’s course.
Willie Young today announced all plans to pedestrianise Union Street are now off the table, wasn’t this the master plan after the CGP was not carried though despite the wishes of the people.
So instead of a new vibrant City centre we have…..NOTHING!
Yeah thanks folks, well done, you turned down a £50 Million donation for political reasons and have left the citizens of Aberdeen with a decaying centre.
The mind of the Councillor playing at being a politician and those of the socialist activists truly is remarkable.
I could provide a real newsworthy story, I know one of the Councillors who voted against the CGP, his garden is a shambles and is overgrown with 4 foot weeds, its not been touched in years, this man got a vote on what should be done with a garden project that the people voted for, I can provide address details if anyone wants to get a picture of his garden.
Dearie me George. You’re still obsessed with CGP. It’s done, dusted and buried my friend. Very noticeable that the proponents weren’t prepared to compromise and just cover the road and railway, thereby providing all that additional green space which was so vaunted. Could it be that darker forces were present, perhaps proposing a 5 star hotel or additional shopping mall in the fullness of time? Be an ideal use for a crumbling concrete edifice don’t you think, and highly profitable to no doubt.
Union Terrace Gardens could be brought back up to it’s previous, well liked, standard by the injection of, perhaps £15m, not £140/£240 that could have been the final cost of the dubious CGP. No dodgy funding packages needed either.
In regard to pedestrianisation: Regretably, it’s a non starter in Aberdeen as there’s simply no alternative route for the high volumes of traffic that would be displaced from Union Street.
Could the reason for so many vacant properties on Union Street be businesses locating to Union Square and the various other malls in the immediate vicinity of The Granite Mile?
Oh, and George, 20% of the population voted in the well dodgy referendum. Hardly the will of the people.
Thank you Ron. And here’s me thinking I’d written a column not covering UTG, but I seem to have upset Mr Smith again.
It’s called democracy, most votes win.
Suzanne,
Would you rather the same half dozen people patted your back every week (no doubt people you know) or would you rather you got some feedback from your average man in the street, my opinion on most things is shared by work mates and friends.
I’ll easily leave you in your brewdog socialist bubble if that’s what you’d prefer.
I know you have scant regard for the majority of people living in the City, your way or the highway, I like to think I’m better than that and listen to all so will stop posting my opinion if you want, it is your paper at the end of the day.
PS You not interested in the garden shambles story, the pictures would be great, it really is the worst garden in Aberdeen, I never even knew weeds could grow so high, granted he’s on your side of the fence but as a journo i’d have thought the story would be bigger than your own agenda.
hello George, Thanks for your story idea; you are welcome to write about it; although taking photos of someone’s private property might not be appropriate. I appreciate the insight as to your priorities.
I’m trying to encourage people to leave at least one corner of their gardens unmanicured to encourage/help wildlife. Not really up to me how people wish to keep their gardens. If you truly believe it is newsowrthy, I’ll put it on the list. I currently have half a dozen live FOI requests to pursue, am dealing with the Standards Commission, the Information Commissioner, Police Complaints, City and Shire councils on 10 different issues such as ATOS assessments, Trump’s locked gates, police perhaps straying from due process, dodgy councillors, environmental damage and so on. I’ve happily been doing ad hoc research since early March for the BBC on request for the upcoming Panorama programme, and am pleased to have been one of the people who helped feed info on request to the BBC team (out Monday at 8.30 – hope everyone watches). i’ve got a full-time job, cats, an arts practice, and I write this little opinion column when time permits. So in the scheme of things, I’ll either get to the scandal of the unkempt councillor’s garden after dealing with these few minor little issues, or leave it to you. You’re probably the more prolific writer of the two of us anyway.
Tally ho,
Old Susannah
You have no problem with taking pictures of Mr Trumps private property!
I’d have thought that a councillors garden would have been well within your remit, it is a council property as well. And if you have time to harass Camra and talk them down for the sake of a few quid then I’m sure you’d have time to cover the story.
Is there anything some of you people would actually welcome to our area?
And perhaps Mr trump would have got on faster without the constant harassment he’s received and obstacles put in his way.
Some of the obstacles in Trump Internationals way are the folk who actually live on Menie Estate and who appear to have been treated in a disturbingly cavalier way by both the Trump man and the local council.
Yep George, We would welcome anyone from the Trump Organisation or Aberdeenshire Council who were prepared to tell the truth regarding the whole sorry affair.Also somebody’s telling porkies about the windfarm saga
Either Trump or Alex Salmond. Tell you the truth I wouldn’t trust either.
It is a horrific disease, I watched my uncle die slowly of this. His mind intact locked in a body he had no say over his personal dignity stripped away.
I am certainly not surprised by the actions of police they let drug dealers do what the hell they want as long as they keep giving them names even the ones with asbos and Dod is most certainly going to get stopped every chance they get just aswell Fred was with him or it would have been a different outcome does this mean Dod has to have someone with him at all times when he steps out his door I think so if he hasn’t a witness they will do and say whatever the hell they like is there no end to police corruption sadly I think not xx
Never mind IKEA, when is Aberdeen going to get a Waitrose.
There are already at least two Sainsburys, Sean and they’re fine.
They do the job, as Stephen Fry says, of keeping the riff-raff (that’s me) out of Waitrose.
I hope the graffiti artist remains anonymous, and I admire anyone who stands up against the bullying, devious scum that is Aberdeen City Council.
George.
Democracy? That went out the window the day Aberdeenshire Council sacked Martin Ford. Mr Ford followed the normal procedure as chairman of the Infrastructure Committee in that he voted for the status quo when the vote was tied at 7-7. The man was doing his job correctly according to the rules yet he was sacked.
Where’s the democracy in that.? Maybe of course the council was swayed by the very ” undemocratic” headline of “You Traitors” which appeared in the “Evening Express” which was followed by the equally undemocratic act by its sister paper the “Press and Journal” of refusing to publish any material from the “Tripping Up Trump” organisation.
What about that Moray Cup label, Duncan? Brewed in Macduff (Banffshire, NOT Aberdeenshire) at what was the Sangs factory and beloved of dentists throughout the land for its caries-causing tooth-corroding sweetness, yet its label belies the fact. No weatherbeaten King Edward fairmer, no craggy Moray Firth trawlerman. Why?
http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/57vintage/media/product%20images/moraycup.jpg.html
Thanks, had no idea about this. Seems there is a Save Moray Cup group on Facebook at
https://www.facebook.com/SaveMorayCup
Just to note – the picture of the open gate between Leyton Farm Road and the parking lot is something of a rarity; I’ve not seen it opened since Leyton Farm Road was resurfaced with large gravel. Susan Munro had to exit via the parking lot before then – as Leyton Farm Road was impassible
“We will investigate the complaint in line with our usual procedures and will respond as appropriate”
Oh well that means the council will absolve themselves of any resposibility over this and do buggar all.
For your information, the golf club where I am a member has a coastal path running alongside its borders and because of the terrain walkers sometimes have to walk within the confines of the course. This very rarely causes a problem and both golfers and walkers exist side by side.I should point out we are a privately run club not council owned.
Back in April I complained to the Outdoor Access Officer that the the 5 public footpaths that were
part of the Trump Golf Course plan did not seem to have been built. The following is the reply I received.
“Dear Mr Downie,
I have made enquiries with our planning department in order to establish
what was required regarding public footpaths as part of the golf course
development. I have visited the site several times over the past year
regarding concerns over the public being able to exercise their access
rights. My last visit, undertaken on 21/03/2013, found no restrictions
which prevented members of the public exercising their access rights across
the golf course.”
So that’s all right then?
Thanks for bringing up the subject of the footpaths that apparently were meant to be part of the plan. As to the reply you received – they should know how disingenuous it is to say that they didn’t find ‘restrictions which prevented members of the public exercising their access rights across the golf course.’ – they must know that gates in the area are permanently chained shut – ‘ access rights across the golf course’ is only a small part of the story.
Might i suggest keepin yer een open next time downie!
They have been built? Where?
Bring Ikea tae Aiberdein?
That thought maks mony splutter.
Tis the shop where things are bought,
By some ower-paid yuppie nutter!
Ron The Rhymer?
I have my moments Bob.
Tut tut Suzanne. You can’t expect Trumpshire Council – sorry, “Aberdeenshire” Council, to go against their leading investor can you? The whole thing sounds like a load of balls to me. Or am I just being cynical?
Aye, is it on iTunes?
It’s disgusting that council staff can go against or break planning law for their own needs or that of their chums.
Oh, me! More sycophantic “reportage” from Brew Dog’s biggest fan(nay!) I agree that here is a small, successful, local firm but do we really need Ms Kelly to trumpet their every success in laborious detail?
“Can world domination be far off” she asks, with no hint of irony and no apparent knowledge of cliche. And, once past the age of nine, it might be best to refrain from starting a sentence with the phrase “Seeing as how…”? Apart from that, though, all good, innovative journalism. Cheers!
How lovely for Angela Joss, the new Aberdeen Inspired Street Ambassador [what that? Ed] to take time out from her busy role supporting businesses to comment constructively on my little article. Thank you Angela.
I clearly missed the public advertisement for the Street Ambassador role which must have been in the help wanted sections, but undoubtedly the friendliest, warmest, most business-savvy candidate got this meaty role (and she says I don’t get irony).
Angela’s criticism of my humble prose is obviously completely independent of my past satirical attacks on some of the directors of Inspired she now serves (including John Michie and the ubiquitous Bob Collier). Voice readers will of course know the many roles these gentlemen take in our city, and would have loved the chance to work under them. Angela brings years of retail experience to her role, I have no doubt.
Those of you wondering what Inspired is, their newsletters which trumpet their every plan (if not many successes) can be found here: http://www.aberdeeninspired.com/index.php/about/newsletters#.Udr3Q3ZwbIU
Perhaps when time permits, Angela will turn her gentle instructive nature and proofreading skills to the Aberdeen Inspired web page, which contains this beautiful Conradesque paragraph:
“The role of Street Ambassador will be a public face of Aberdeen Inspired, being a visible precense liasing with visitors and levy payers. Acting as the eyes and ears of the Board of Directors, Angela will also be the first point of contact on a one-to one basis with businesses in the city, acting in a customer service role .”
Good luck with the proofreading, and being the eyes and ears of Bob Collier and Co. I know you are the person best equipped morally and linguistically for the task. I’m sure you will make your ‘precense’ felt.
Tally Ho!
Suzanne
I look forward to Angela’s reply, which I have no doubt will instruct and entertain us all further when it arrives. But now it’s time to go watch Panorama.
Oh, Ms Kelly, are you seriously suggesting that I’m critical of yet another Brew Dog article because you’ve, at some point, apparently been critical of two men on the Board of a company that I work for? Well, let’s set THAT one straight – I commented as I did because you have a tendency to be sycophantic and demonstrate a lack of balance in both your subject matter and your approach to your “work”. And, for a “writer”, you’ve a sometimes tenuous grasp of the editing process. End of.
Can’t decide if I find your research into my part time job flattering or creepy. It’s my first job since I had my children, I’m enjoying it immensely, and giving it my very best. Of course, I understand your implication that it’s not a “proper” career for a “real” woman like you, but I will take on board what a sell out I am, in your (jaundiced) eyes. However, there is some dignity in labour, I believe in the principle aims of the organization I work for, and I’m really proud that the money I earn pays for my lovely children to take acting, dancing and music lessons, as well as providing other, extra treats for the whole family. It’s hard for me to feel any kind of embarassment about that.
Finally, I’m able to keep my social/private life and my employment separate. Perhaps you ought to try it, Ms Kelly.
( * Last sentence removed due to it’s blatant defamatory nature/content. Free speech is wonderful …. until it becomes something someone may have to pay dear for 🙂 – Moderator )
Dear Angela
I knew you would find more useful comments to add; thank you ever so much. The research I did on your appointment came from it being announced on the Inspired website, on Facebook, and comments you yourself made. I can see straight away you will be a great ambassador for the business community. I can only hope to one day attain the historic balance you show. All the best
Well wrote Bob!
Give me an email if Forbes every tries to put his boat in the water, it would be comedy gold.
His “farm” is a pigsty and a disgrace, how about having a go at him for ruining some of the coastline?
btw Tonights tv show came across as just a rehash of precious efforts to run Mr Trump down, leave the man and the business alone, you’ve had you say.
Pigsty George? I could swear I heard doanald junior say there was no sign of any livestock on the programme tonight. Are you calling trump jnr a liar? 🙂
Oh, and as for us ( or whoever you refer to as ‘you’ ) having had our say, you might be interested to know that it was actually the BBC who put the programme out, not Aberdeen Voice…. thought I should just point that out.
Give me a shout if you’re struggling to find an address to write to in order to direct your comments to those responsible for the documentary. I’m sure we’ll be able to help.
Comedy gold eh?…I wonder if you were in Michael Forbes’ position would you find it so amusing?Somehow i think no,mair likely you would be greetin like a bairn ower it.
Andrew,
He’s an attention seeker who lives in a run down dump, he has nothing to moan about, no one has done him any harm and he’s not been evicted.
How about you stop worrying about him and worry about the families in Tillydrone who will soon be forced out of their homes? that’s way more deserving than a man who doesn’t maintain his property.
And any launch of the boat he has would be comedy gold, it has more holes in it than an old Susannah article.
Michael Forbes an the other guid folk of the Meanie estate didnae court publicity,it was forced on them by trumps devious dealins.Did you watch the same panorama prog as i did?
If so how can you or anyone else claim that trump is anythin mair than a stupid yank wi’ an attitude problem?
Well said Angela, the sycophantic drooling over Brewdog is nauseating. The in place of the moment for students and left wing activists to hang out trying to act cool, I give it a couple years before the latest new place to hang out opens.
I sympathise with the likes of you who are working hard for the business community, you know the people who provide employment for a good percentage of the population, how dare they give the people of Aberdeen employment to feed their families.
In return as I have you get these people digging into your private life if you raise a questioning voice.
And Suzanne asking for balance, hahahahahahaha, pot kettle dear!!!!
Tally ho.
Previous, 🙂
The “independent” writers of the AV have previously stated they helped the program makers in their research, no doubt it was balanced points from both sides of the fence, I know myself my friends and workmates support Mr Trump and the new golf course, even though few of us play golf. We can see the bigger picture. I trust those who helped the BBC did point out the support as well as the negatives?
An email address would be nice yeah, I thought the program was crap and object to funding such biased nonsense.
And don’t forget that boat launch email, that would be so funny to watch. The rotten carcass wouldn’t make it off the trailer in one piece.
George
I’m unclear as to whether you think it is right for access to be restricted as illustrated, or you behind efforts to uphold in a reasonable way the rights to access under the Code?
JULIAN
Julian,
No matter what Mr Trump does people will still moan, as I previously said Mr Forbes will not be launching that boat anytime soon, for all we know he might appreciate the extra security the gate provides. I have gates on my property, I suppose given the laws of the land people still have the right to wander through my property but the gates are there to discourage them.
When it comes to wilfully misunderstanding what has gone before, Mr Smith knows no equal. ‘Extra security the gate provides?’ having a permanently locked gate blocking a historic access is no security. I love Smith’s take – ‘gates are there to discourage them’ – from exercising a legal right. Well done yet again George; you do bring a (thankfully) unique perspective to any debate you engage in.
How many other golf courses in Scotland have such security measures taken.I’m thinkin ther night time patrols by ex bouncers an criminals are so don donny an his kin can sleep easy.
The course has been vandalised before and Mr Trump is under constant harassment from socialist activists upset that a rich man is in the area, that explains the security.
I’m pretty bewildered why people want access across a golf course anyway, the beach is still open and freely available, it just seems another stick to beat the Trump family with.
If golf course rambling is your thing then please also use all the other numerous courses in the area!
For the record George, any help offered to the BBC was at their request, presumably triggered by elevated levels of activity re. Menie including a series of Aberdeen Voice articles by 3 different writers, a petition signed by 18,000+, and activities of Trump international itself.
I am assured that information and assistance offered to the BBC by Aberdeen Voice did not deviate from the content of our articles which, in any case, were already in the public domain.
Anyway, here’s that link to BBC complaints. Enjoy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/
Dear George, I am getting quite concerned for your blood pressure, but am delighted to see you in one of your prolific (if less than logical) periods once more.
Please do explain how the independence of AV is compromised if the BBC contacts us to seek further details of our articles. I was asked to assist (not least because I’ve been lobbying government and wrote a detailed, referenced report circulated to the media and government); I gladly helped, and would do so for other nationals interested in looking at the situation at Menie, or other issues I’ve covered.
You’ll find a little hint as to the Beeb researching ‘both sides of the fence’ in the interview they had with Trump himself, which he cut short when the spectre of his Ft Lauderdale licensing deal, and possible mafia connection arose. By all means complain to the BBC about this ‘crap’ programme; include details of whatever you found inaccurate, and by all means share it with us too. I’m sure you will be able to find a means to contact them, given your astute analytical skills, but try http://www.bbc.co.uk as a starting point if you get stuck.
Good for you and your friends and workmates for supporting ‘Mr Trump’ despite all the evidence of laws bent, environmental protection disregarded, government and police irregularities and peoples’ lives made difficult. You must be an empathetic group indeed.
As to Michael Forbes’ boat – it is not that long ago that it was used; it is captured in You’ve Been Trumped at sea. After it was damaged when his property accessed in a scene captured in YBT, and after his access to the sea was cut off by the Trump organization with the police’s blessing, despite the Outdoor Access Code, it is hardly surprising that it might not be seaworthy now. You would find this funny, wouldn’t you?
Everyone is entitled to informed opinion, but George you’ve clearly not done any research to speak of; you never offer any quantifiable data, no first hand testimony, no facts enter into your little diatribes. I’ve done the homework; the BBC did its homework over the course of 5 months. Why not take up the Voice’s long-standing offer and send us an article supporting your point of view, with references and evidence? We’re waiting.
PS – there is a great deal of psychological writing on the neurotic need of some people to seek affirmation and acceptance of the rich and powerful by any means they can. This is to make up for their own insecurities and/or to try and gain some power through such recognition for themselves. Know anyone like that?
Billionaire or street sweeper, I treat people the same, you attack all rich people, jealousy, envy, I’m not sure, strange socialist mindset to have imo.
All people are equal.
George,
Dont know if you buy the P&J but
ex employees and retired employees are extremely embarrassed at the subtle and not so subtle bias of the paper’s reporting of the Trump
fiasco. Are you also accusing leading economists at the LSE,an ex president of the Royal Town Planning Institute, a leading figure on outdoor pursuits, and various conservation bodies of being biased in their views about Trump. THEY CAN’T ALL BE WRONG!!!
Just before cutting short his Panorama interview, Donald Trump said, “Maybe you’re thick but when you have a signed contract, you can’t in this country just break it . . .” Well, that may help explain the question put recently to David Milne and Councillor Paul Johnston by Maureen Watt MSP before the Public Petitions Committee of Parliament, when she said “What are we talking about?”.
Mr. Trump possibly prefers to conduct his business in Scotland because, where our planning laws are concerned, he can pretty much do what he likes. From the Government to Aberdeenshire Council. It is easy to see why some politicians do not want a public inquiry.
Note to amend! Hence the locked gates. Who is going to challenge him? Or so he thinks.
DEVELOPMENT – indications are now that the police are working with George Copland to arrange compensation for the destruction of property. I am happy to hear that discussions are taking place, and I welcome the police working to compensate in this case.
Bob,
Ikea is cheap and the stuff they sell looks good. I agree local shops need supporting but that shouldn’t be to the detriment of the consumer, I want choice and am not in a position where I could afford to kit out a house using the stores you mentioned. I’ve been to Ikea in Edinburgh more than once, having one up here would save the likes of me with a limited budget the journey.
Primark is also cheap and on the racks their stuff looks good. Problem is like IKEA their product has a relatively short “wearing” life. There is much truth in the saying”Buy cheap buy dear”
Great article I enjoyed reading this very much, I get my groceries delivered and I’ve just added a dozen bottles of Brewdog beer into the online shopping basket.
It disna look like it Rico loon.
Mail order it fae Greentrax at the link. Sign up for their newsletter too – a terrific, caring true independent label deserving of your support.
George: I’d be delighted to know all the people in Tillydrone who are to be evicted when the new bridge is built. Please enlighten us.
Strange how Aberdeenshire Council are putting out enforcements notices in Westhill in regard to works which do not comply with permissions granted, but didn’t in regard to Mr Trump’s organisations deviations from plan. It just goes to show that they can enforce the law when it suits them.
The Panorama programme showed up Trump for what he is – an egotistical bully. No one loves a bully, except our George it seems.
George,
I have heard it all now. You must have a crystal ball if you can categorically state those who have allegedly harrassed Trump are SOCIALIST activists. As usual George you are long on vitriol but short on actual facts. The right of access gives people the right to walk across ANY golf course if they so wish
providing they do not interfere with the golfers while they are in the act of playing a shot. Many people may not feel the need to walk across a golf course but in the case of Mr Trump’s course they are actively being discouraged from doing so .Mr Trump or his employees ,despite his obvious influence, have no right to stop people providing they adhere to the right of access code.Why should his course be different from any other in the land.
Why would you want to walk on a golf course, it’s bizarre.
And the security is needed thanks to your activist mates who have already vandalised the course and equipment within.
George.
You can walk across any golf course to get from A to B Many people do including football supporters who REGULARLY walk across the golf course at Aberdeen Links to get to Pittodrie from the beach area where they have parked their cars.
Please George furnish me with PROOF it was anti Trump folk who vandalised his machinery.No one was charged so how the hell can you say who was responsible.
You’ll be pleased to know that Derek Ibbotson is till going strong, albeit on new hips. He held the world mile record for a short while too. He didn’t have a privileged background like the Bannisters, Chataways etc, and learned his craft up and down the steep Pennine valleys around Huddersfield. Lovely chap too.
A complaint will be made …
Complaints have been made dating back YEARS and some of these are documented on my blog. Specifically in 2009 when I, as local councillor, following complaints to me, documents photographically 5 sites of locked gates. These were opened by order of the access officer. Locked again. Opened again.
There is nothing to investigate, Aberdeenshire Council. Just look in your back files and update the old complaints and insist that Trump obeys the law.
As a serial offender, well documented as such, there is no case for leniency
The Trump organisation has failed to cite specific instances of vandalism at Menie, save one incident of damage to construction machines, rumoured locally to be from a disgruntled employee (he’s good at producing those). THE act of vandalism of course is the destruction of a SSSI – but I also witnessed the damaged to Mike Forbes fishing gear when Trump shoved this kit off land they claimed to own.
if you want more info on the actual police statistics on vandalism, my recent FOI will enlighten you further; details coming soon to Aberdeen Voice – Suzanne
Julian,
Thanks for info
Suzanne quine,
A dinna think it wis Salmond faa Trump ca’ed a “porker” Wis it nae Michael Forbes and he retaliated bi sayin nae bad cumin fae a clown or a’m I getting ma pigs and clowns aa mixed up?
I can never tell the difference Bob.
Indeed you were correct as ever Bob; corrected now and many thanks!
Strugglin a wee bit Bob wi the text. Did Bannister ever run in Aberdeen?
I dinna myn on him ivver rinnin in Aiberdeen Duncan, bit bein an auld bugger a micht’ve forgotten.
I remember very clearly Donald Trump blaming the recession for not building the hotel and houses, this was stated in several publications about three years ago. Now he’s making a song and dance out of the wind-turbines off Aberdeen Bay, and blaming this for not building the hotel and houses. If he’s so concerned about wind-farms in Scotland why has he NEVER EVER objected previously, as there has been dozens upon dozens of opportunities to do so.
Can’t help but agree with you Sean. I have never been able to work out why, when playing a round of golf, the participants would be taking their eye off the ball. Isn’t that the object of the whole silly exercise in futility?
I think you will find that a police officer (I used to be one), keeps every bit of information in their notebooks. The new electronic note books would allow an officer to recall information such as time allocated to a job quite easily.
This information would already be held on their notebooks, and therefore would NOT be the creation of new information, it would only need to be collected and a monetary amount given for officers time.
a good point, and one I look forward to the police explaining when they cover how they have no idea how much time / costs accrue to visits that go ahead. Payroll departments usually store information as to overtime, special jobs, etc. It should not be rocket science to match planned/actual/cancelled Trump visit dates to police costs. I look forward to seeing what they write next.
That’s strange. Grampian Police informed me that they were unable to calculate police costs for policing the construction of the Menie estate as they weren’t, or chose not to be, able calculate police time spent on different activities! Graham indicates this might be otherwise.
Here is more of what the police wrote when explaining how they could calculate the cost of the cancelled visit, but could not calculate other costs:- “Although costs were calculated in regard to the cancelled trip, this was done at the time of the cancellation and involved a member of staff speaking to individual officers to find out what their shift changes were and what overtime or re-rostered rest days they were entitled to, in order to come up with an estimated figure. We also had to ask those involved in planning how long they spent on these tasks – such detail would not be routinely recorded and was provided based on the officer/member of staff’s recollection. Clearly this was easily done due to the fact that task was recent. If we were to approach officers and staff now to recall how long they spent on a piece of work 2 or three years ago, it is unlikely they would accurately recall. Furthermore, this would amount to the creation of new information and there is no obligation on authorities to create new information to answer a FOI request. Only recorded information held by an authority should be provided in response to a FOI request.”
You will not be surprised to know I’ve challenged this. Either you have tools to track how your manpower is spent, or you do not. If the police do not track how their manpower is spent, then I’d strongly suggest the police get in step with most other industries, where time-writing is standard. I also refer to the post above re. police notebooks; correlating dates of visits with overtime, etc. should be possible from records kept. We’ll see what they say next
I wonder if Mr Trump was to be/was on previous visits afforded the luxury of a police escort (covert or otherwise) during his periodic visits to The North East? Are his own security staff armed, which would be illegal? Granted he is a very wealthy, if pompous, individual, but he should not be given the benefit of thinly stretched police resources to enlarge his over inflated ego. Grampian, now Scotland’s Police, have been burdened with security costs for decades in regard to certain regal dignitaries; to add Trump’s “State Visits” to that is ridiculous.
Like you Suzanne, I noted the large number of people in UTG on Friday basking in the sun drenched, sheltered environment – a working day at that! The addicts and alcoholics that are a constant presence (according to our mutual friend George) must have been in absolute terror in to their favoured domain.
I watched the Panorama programme with interest. It, most certainly, didn’t show the illustrious Trump in a very good light. Thank heavens for our unbiased BBC and it’s excellent reporting/investigative staff. Given their conclusions, it’s pretty obvious you and your colleagues put forward a truthful and accurate view of matters Trump, for which we should all be grateful. It does, however, bring the coverage of our local newspapers in to disrepute regrettably and that is sad.
More power to your elbow.
Hello Ron – all I can say is thanks. Cheers, and we’ll see what happens next
It’s a pity the police themselves don’t act in a law abiding and honest manner.
Tut tut Sazanne. All that chocolate!! Think of the damage you’re doing to your sylphlike, girlish figure. Happy birthday, by the way.
Your last two paragraphs sum things up beautifully.
The prize of independence would be a government elected by the people of Scotland, accountable to them at the ballot box. That is something we have never had, and can never achieve, under Westminster rule given we form only around 9% of the UK population base. Never again could divisive and vindictive Conservative Party policies be inflicted on us against our will.
Starting from a clean sheet would give us the ability to form policies which are appropriate to Scotland, not those merely fueling the overheating of the South East of England’s economy at our expense. Our future could be bright, but we, the electorate, have to participate and not simply sit on the sidelines carping and allowing politicians carte blanche.
As an electorate we need to be informed, accurately and factually, by both sides of the argument. The persistent scare mongering of the “No” lobby must stop. We are not as gullible as they think and even those of us with lesser amounts of grey matter can see through those laughable assertions.
I am all for Tibet gaining independence.
We can support ourselves Sean. Can Tibet I wonder?
I agree with both Steve Boyle and Ron Campbell. We really have to shake off this everlasting “slave mentality”! Rational discussion is required on both sides and not just get swept away in blind panic by scare stories initiated by the ‘no’ lobby.
Irene B.
I wonder how much money it costs the police to answer your inane FOI requests?
If the man and his family were left in peace they wouldn’t require police escorts, something for you “activists” to ponder.
Hello George. Of course, the most important thing about anyone exercising their democratic rights such as launching FOI requests is the cost, or so it seems as far as you are concerned. Did you know that by law government organisations have for many years been required to answer FOI requests and have dedicated staff doing so?
As to leaving the man and his family in peace, do you think that the Milne, Forbes and Munro families deserve peace? Precisely what problems have the Trumps encountered that required a police escort? Are you saying you are happy to spend thousands of taxpayer pounds on policing for a man with his own security team when driving from the airport to Menie? I do think you’ve outdone yourself this time Mr Smith
Great review, disciplined writing. Dare I say some of AV’s more established contributors could take note?
The casualty rate is shocking. The point about the investment in the A9 on safety grounds is the crux of the whole issue. Whilst I am a car owner, I use it as sparingly as possible. It’s become a dangerous lottery. Even drivers in the slower traffic in the city seem to be taking more and more dangerous chances with disregard for speed limits, red and amber signals and dangerous parking.
I cycle and walk as often as I can and generally have no problems, but if we are to ease congestion and pollution and tackle the obesity and fitness problem, we must invest in infrastructure to SEPARATE cyclists from motorists. The perceived risks on two wheels are a reason always given by would-be cyclusts fir their reluctance to use two wheels rather than four.
The situation of Aberdeen’s sole ghost bike is a joke. Hidden away on the riverside it might as well be in the middle of Rubislaw Quarry. The accident happened at the roundabout not a hundred yards away to satisfy some officious plonker worried about distracting motorists. One of the main objectives of ghost bikes is to increase awareness of accident black-spots.
We also need ghost bikes at the Haudagain and Kings Gate/Anderson Drive roundabouts!
Ewen. If you look above there is a link to last year’s article about the ghost bike at Riverside. There’s a link to BeCycle, the volunteer cycling organisation in High St, Old Aberdeen, who made the commemoration. There’s a link to BeCycle in the article, as I recall. You’ll be able to make the suggestion directly to BeCycle via that link. Stay safe. David.
Well put Bob.
A good mix this week Suzanne. It appears you can get awards for all kinds of nonsense. Perhaps the “City of Culture” one falls in to this bracket also. Strange how to umbridge at the Brewdog website offering, while totally disregarding the blatantly dubious offerings of the CGP lot. Perhaps money talks after all. Talking of money, I wonder when the illustrious Trump will complete his hundreds of over priced homes and luxury hotel? He desperately needs to get a return for his investors, so, wind farm or no wind farm, it’s only a matter of time.
Is he really desperate for a return for his investors? how do you know this?
That is way more defamatory than anything I wrote about tree hugging Ford, seems friends of the editors here can write what they want whilst other get relevant posts chopped.
While any loss of life on our roads is tragic, the actions of a section of the cycling fraternity do their cause no favours – the pavement riding, red light ignoring group. The sad fact is that patience – said to be a virtue – is sadly lacking in many road users, cyclists included. Yes, cycling should be actively promoted as a means of better health (if you exclude the traffic fumes in our cities) but, a marked increase in police presence is required to control the excesses/stupidity of many road users. Some cities have cameras installed on traffic lights to catch, and bring to book, offenders. Perhaps this is a way forward in The Granite City. It would certainly give ACC a significant income which could be used to improve the plight of cyclists and pedestrians alike.
[In my opinion] Martin Ford sums up all that is wrong with our City Council, “Defamatory portion of post removed – will be reinstated if poster can provide evidence in support of claim, or repost comment worded in a way which clearly indicates what is opinion and what is stated as factual – Moderator”
Nice interesting article although spoiled somewhat by a needless dig at Mr Trump.
I hear what you are saying George but in the interest of rounding off the notion of windmills having been around in Scotland for quite a long time I thought it useful to include the reference. After all it makes readers react.
There will a de-trumpted version of this piece in the Banffshire Herald next weekif that helps George. Honest injuns!
So, Eoin Jess is the greatest ever fitba’r, and some band played some music somewhere?
That’s just part of it min. Big Jimmy’s the boy, Donald’s oatcakes are the only proper mannies’ stovie accompaniment and God got it right when he diverted the Deveron to keep as apart fae the Aiberdeenshire heathens and the Avon and Spey to differentiate us fae the tartanista.
Did I mention that the Seats were some eese?
Great article. Everyone needs to remember that this vote is not about whether we keep the pound, join the euro, remain in the EU, have our own armed forces, etc. This vote is only about the right to decide all those things for ourselves.
Just a few hundred years ago there was a thing called The British Empire. The US, Canada, Australia, and India were all part of it (to name just a few locations). Does anyone in those countries feel that we’d be “better together”? I’d challenge anyone to name a single independent state that would vote to relinquish it’s independence given the option to do so? How can anyone believe that Scotland would somehow set a precedence here, and be the first country to regret gaining independence, let alone independence from the UK.
People fought and died for their freedom, all we have to do is tick the box marked “YES”. It really is a no brainer.
“Gigs on Rigs”, which idiot thought that one up.
I should have mentioned that I’m well aware of Mr Fords political background and where he now sits and know he didn’t sit directly on the city council but [I believe] he still went out of his way to involve himself with City matters. “Defamatory portion of post removed – will be reinstated if poster can provide evidence in support of claim, or repost comment worded in a way which clearly indicates what is opinion and what is stated as factual – Moderator”
The best thing to do with the eyesore is build a fifty foot bund around it and screen it with trees.
Do you mean the windmill or Donald Trump Ron?
https://aberdeenvoice.com/tag/organisation/
http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/867075
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/scottish-government-give-green-light-to-controversial-trump-wind-farm-plans.1364294009
There’s your evidence, I look forward to my posts being reinstated.
I also look forward to Ron backing up his claim that Mr Trump desperately needs to get a return for investors.
[ George, having examined your ‘evidence’ we can fully accept that these might provide ample basis for your OPINION of Cllr. Ford, but no-one at Aberdeen Voice can see how any part of either of these articles justifies or supports the terms you have used to describe Mr Ford’s actions or position as related to in your post, therefore we are not prepared to accept liability for those comments as they stand.
We feel we must point out three things, which will hopefully help you make better use of the comments facility than you have been able to of late.
1. Your knowledge and opinion of Cllr. Ford or any other person or organisation is not an issue, and is of no concern to us. We have demonstrated often enough that where we find evidence of wrongdoing by any councillor or public figure, we have no fear of exposing said wrongdoing publicly regardless of the wrongdoer’s political leanings and/or influence.
2. Moderation has less to do with protecting the person or organisation being commented on ( in this case Martin Ford ), but more to do with protecting the poster ( in this case you ), and more importantly, the publisher ( in this case Aberdeen Voice ) from legal challenge.
3. Since the introduction of comments boxes were intended to give the public a say on our articles, and stimulate lively and informative debate, it makes no sense to edit ( or, as you put it, censor ) your opinion out of the potential debate without good reason. Your opinion will almost certainly provoke response, and this is good for Aberdeen Voice.
The issue remains that the wording of your post presents OPINION as a STATEMENT OF FACT, which, by it’s potential to damage a named person’s reputation by way of specific, direct, unsubstantiated accusations represents defamatory material.
I suggest you read the original advice again George ie. the part which suggests you “repost comment worded in a way which clearly indicates what is opinion and what is stated as factual”.
You will find words such as ‘in my opinion’,’I believe’, I think’, It appears to me’, ‘It is as if’,’I Suggest’, ‘Isn’t it the case?’, etc which indentifies what is your opinion and/or makes any charge/accusation less direct, used appropriately, will usually be all that is required for all the points you wish to put across to be approved with little or no amendment.
Otherwise, we consider this matter closed.
– Moderator ]
Can I suggest you read up on defamation laws, it will save you making further mistakes in the future.
Thanks.
Hello George. Thank you for the suggestion. You’ve now sent in some half dozen posts today, and I am not at all comfortable with the tone and content of them. AV will get back to you when it can on the status of your posts when the rest of theh team have had time to consider them.
Just a reminder – while a column (such as Old Susannah) may be political satire, comments are a different thing. You can state your opinion; you can make constructive criticism, but stating opinion as fact, and abusive posts are not welcome here.
Why not write your own article or political satire George? This offer was made to you ages ago, and it still stands.
Finally, Aberdeen Voice is well within its rights to not publish any post or comment which may be defamatory, harrassement, or offensive in nature. We are also free to disagree with your expertise as to what is or is not libel.
I do hope this helps.
Talking of defamation George:
You should have been in Union Terrace Gardens today (Saturday). Loads enjoying themselves in the sun with entertainment laid on. Perhaps you’re due an apology to all those addicts and drunks you defamed so frequently? Not one in sight again.
This morning we had the service of one of the children killed while out on his bike on a rural road right at the start of the school holidays. Please everyone take extra care.
Until my bicycle was stolen I used to cycle a lot, I don’t intend to ever cycle again due to the dangerous car and bus drivers in Aberdeen.
David
A’m slaiverin at the mou at the thocht o Donald’s oatcakes.They tak a lot o beatin.
Hi Bob
My kids refer to the mannie Stott in Bucksburn as my dealer, since I make regular excursions into the mean streets of the Boxy ‘hood to feed my addiction. He drives from Culsalmond to Boxy to run the shop, but at least once a week goes to Portsoy to pick up the baked oatmeal Ambrosia.
His shop is on the left about a hunner n fifty yards before the A947. Right opposite Chalmers Bakery.
Nom nom nom nom nom.
They’re nae cheap, but stovies or tattie soup are enhanced immeasurably by The Prince of Breid.
David
Hi Ron
I share your disapproval of pavement cyclists, cyclists who jump red lights, cyclists who wear no hi-viz or display lights during dark hours. I obey the law and take every precaution I can to make myself visible when biking in the dark.
In my experience, these are in the minority and when I have occasionaly asked pavement cyclists why they do it, the usual response is that they don’t feel safe on the road. If we are to stop such behaviour, proper, serious infrastructure has to be provided. There is no alternative to this if we are to stop the appalling casualty rate. I admit, however, there will always be irresponsible people on bikes, jyst as there will always be irresponsible vehicle drivers.
I’ve not been abusive at all, the content of my comments is something you disagree with, fair enough.
Don’t twist you not wanting my opinion aired into me being abusive, we both know that isn’t true.
Dearie me George. Do you actually think it’s Trump’s personal funds that are paying for Menie?? Apparently the man’s gone bankrupt in the past and pulled out of the Presidential race the moment he had to declare his financial situation.
It would be very, very interesting to know which individuals or companies had provided funding to Trump for the Menie project, but I strongly suspect he did this one out of his own funds. The reason I think that is because he is going to make such a massive mind boggling profit when he sells the land, which I doubt he will want to share with anyone else.
I could be wrong of course, as it’s very difficult to imagine what goes on in the mind of someone who has (proven) connections to the Mafia.
[slight precautionary amendment to post to observe legal boundaries – Moderator]
It’s a great pity this eagerness to expose wrongdoing does not extend to the actions of AV’s own editorial team, at least some of whom could now be described, with a stretch of the imagination, as public figures. I refer, in this instance, to the speed with which a post containing a question – a question to which the answer might well have been considered damaging and/or embarrassing to Aberdeen Voice – was removed from the AV Facebook page recently. The alacrity with which the AV page admin acted (on being asked the question) might not only have been seen as embarrassing enough in itself, but might surely cause the casual observer to regard your lengthy statement to George Smith above with more than a healthy pinch of scepticism. I refer in particular to the passage containing the claim that “we have no fear of exposing… wrongdoing publicly regardless of the wrongdoer’s political leanings and/or influence.” If that is the case, then perhaps AV would care to make a public statement on the matter to which I refer, a statement already requested by a member of the public on that page? Or is this just a case of there being one rule for your targets, and quite another for your staff?
I assume this question is directed at myself Pete, as I am admin of the FB page. I did not reply because I did not know the answer to your question. I know now that the answer is ‘no’. No phone call took place, and no wrongdoing either. Dialogue is still open between myself and the aggrieved party, and I consider this the only healthy way to proceed.
Have a nice day.
For those of you who don’t know what ‘minger’ is on about this time, some false accusations were posted on the Aberdeen Voice Facebook page by Pete Thomson ( He’d already been suspended temporarily once by Facebook for a previous libellous comment directed at me). Minger seems keen these get mentioned on my column; and I’m glad of his insistence as it gives me an opportunity to set the record straight. Here goes.
I was accused on FB by Thomson of making a phonecall and complaining about someone, allegedly because they were critical about my writing. You might not know me personally, but I don’t work like that. For the record, no phonecall, no complaint ever happened. It appears to me as fabrication on Thomson’s part. And I happen to think a rather malicious one at that.
If it matters, I sent a very short, polite email which asked for info. which might or might not be the basis for this accusation against me. I’d tell you more but I don’t want to risk identifying the person Pete apparently feels was the subject of my email request (my email asked about finances, how appointments including a new job were made, whether public funds were used and so on). I can tell you that someone came to me with info they quite rightly wanted investigated, and I sent a wholly polite email of about 4 sentences with no hint of a complaint in it. I send out dozens of such emails looking for info a week; hope this doesn’t shock anyone.
Thomson wrote in his initial FB post an account of an event that never happened which ended (I have screenshots of course) that “this [phonecall] actually took place.” By the end of the thread however, which was libellous to me and therefore removed, Thomson was instead demanding Fred confirm whether or not such a phonecall happened,. How Fred was supposed to have info on an invented accusation is another matter. (NB I don’t get to see any of Pete’s comments on FB as I blocked him long ago for what I and others saw as repeated attacks on me).
Thomson so far refuses to apologise. I would like to say more about the ongoing criticism of me by Thomson, but can’t do so at present; I’m taking advice.
Voice Readers might want to ask themselves who Minger is and what his or her agenda is. I’m not the greatest writer on the block, but I’m one of a small group of people trying to get truth exposed when things go wrong with city, shire, police, etc. If someone’s trying to stop me doing so, what’s behind it? What is the ultimate goal?
Pete, Minger – you’ve seen I’m not going to stop writing. Thomson’s apology would still be appreciated for the phonecall/complaint comment. Failing that apology, then do send us all proof this phonecall and complaint happened. Since no call existed, there will be no record, no file note, no witness. Apology awaited.
For the sake of the readers, Minger/Pete – let’s get back to making comments that are relevant to the piece of writing in question, which do not amount to more boring attacks on me personally? Perhaps a new hobby would be beneficial for you as well. Not for anything, but Pete / Minger – other people have commented that you’re starting to look a little bit obsessed.
For the rest of you, thanks your comments, thanks for reading, and thanks for – well everything really. Maybe one day we will see the back of Pete/Minger; maybe not. But for those of you who keep reading, and because of those who give me reason to write, I’m going to keep carrying on. Cheers, Old Susannah aka Suzanne Kelly.
Great report, Fred. In particular, the effective replacement of gorse by bracken seems nothing short of disastrous!
I’m a bit concerned about 200 peace lanterns being released, assuming they mean Chinese lanterns. There was a massive fire just recently at a recycling plant due to one of those. Hate to be a party pooper, but not a very responsible act, andit is essentially throwing 200 paper bags into the air. Weird!
Donna, just to put your mind at reest, the lanterns are not Chinese lanterns. As depicted on the front page, these are floating lanterns which are launched on the water rather than in the air.
A wonderful, knowledgeable, comprehensive and fair-minded report with excellent photographs, tinged with great sadness at the mindless and ignorant destruction which has gone before. Many congratulations on this very useful update on the present situation.
It might be worth investigating how well the conifers are doing in the enclosures above Ballgownie playing fields. Fine regeneration of natural meadow, but the saplings are few and far between and are being totally swamped by the grasses and as fine a crop of dandelions as I have ever seen.
Are you intending publishing the above comment or not, Fred?
All in all, I think we can agree that the project was a complete and utter waste of tax payers money. Nothing seems to have been learned from the St Fittick’s venture which could be best described as a failed attempt at reforestation, costing the public purse dear. I’m in total agreement that those who perpetrated this extravagant waste of public funds should be held to account. Regretably, award for failure have become the norm nowadays.
What I found most amazing from that day trip was that nature regardless, will still blossom, even in landfill. In some areas how anything grows at all is a wonder in itself.
Whoever was responsible for master minding the project had no environmental sense what so ever? We could take that further. Diversity what’s that. No thought has gone into how those (for a large part) shrivelled up examples will grow. A tree for every citizen, where? not on them thar hills.
For the record, Cllr Jean Morrison has mailed me her response today. I am still studying the contents, but thought it fair to acknowledge it here as soon as I could.
if it has to be rendered inoperable, wouldn’t it make more sense to salvage it and transfer it to somewhere like the music hall or beach ballroom? I’m sure that a good show of local support for such a plan could get the gears moving to find it a suitable home where it can be heard once again. Would the tivoli be an option?
Are there any contact details for Charlie?
Hi Michael. This is the mail address Charlie supplied in response to the previous Article about the Capitol. I have reason to believe though that it might not be active …. I await a response from Charlie myself … thinking of changing to co.uk and trying that out.
chasdavidson@hotmail.com
Suzanne excels herself here! A shaft of wit and insight, cutting through the pervading filth and mendacity. I particularly like her example of a circular argument!
Aye Duncan,
The Turra Show is aye worth a vist. Didna mak it up the The Haughs iss ear bit saw an equally gweed Vintage Tractor display an Fairmin Throwe the Ages at Echt Show
The Keith Show is almost upon us Bob, think it has a tractor parade as well plus some trained geese doing extreme stunts. I have been told that the saturday night fight between the lads of Buckie and the Keith loons is worth a look as well. Bit like the Orkney upies and doonies but without any semblance of rules! Must take a look at Echt next year. Hope the ear gets better real soon.
Such hatred over a spectacular golf course, all because a well known rich man built it.
Every development will always have objectors, this one no different, we’ve heard them all before, the poor families who suffered so much so it could be built, it’s now getting all so tedious. No one was evicted, no one lost their home, one objector to the beautiful course lives in a midden, an eyesore that scars the land, do we hear any objections and public inquiries as to how he chooses to live?
Get over it, a paltry 19,000 names is nothing, the course is here and will remain, no amount of foot stomping will change that.
I think the furore is more directed at rules bent or broken George, not a certain rich American. The law is meant to be equal for all and should be enforced impartially. Can you, in all sincerity, say that was the case in regard to Menie?
And you’re comment about a, “paltry 19,000 names,” is laughable. What about the “paltry” numbers who supported CGP?? The vast majority of citizens didn’t even vote!!!
If someone has a 3 bedroom property and a family is waiting for that type of house then it makes sense the single person downsizes, obviously if a house is available. A good scheme that will work as long as people are not penalised for having a property when no other is available.
As for the story about a family being asked to move from a 3 bedroom to another 3 bedroom I refuse to believe that.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least George in regard to the family being moved from a 3 bed to a 3 bed. Aberdeen City Council works in mysterious ways. I was regarded as being inadequately housed in a private room and kitchen many years ago. What was I offered? A room and kitchen! Nothing would surprise me about ACC. They simply make the rules up as they go along and deny any liability for any shortcomings on their part.
I have lived in an Aberdeen council house for many years, and as a landlord they are very, very nasty.
George. Did you in the article thow many 1 bedroom properies there are in Aberdeen? 86! Given the amount of tenants requesting to downsize, they could be paying Bedroom Tax for many years before local authorities can get round to building enough suitable accommodation.. COSLA statistics have already stated that this could be up to 25 years..
As for the woman with the autistic child, you seem surprised! It is in fact a true account. I know the woman and I can verify it as accurate.. If you come to UTG on the 24th August you can meet her yourself.
This tax has only one reason for existance, to stigmatise low waged and unemployed workers & make them scapegoats for far greater problems in the economy. They are being blamed for problems created by speculators & gamblers on the movement of stockmarkets. It was their greed that caused the slump, not a low-waged worker in B&Q, Sainsburys or the local shop. It is these people who claim Housing Benefit. And it is these people who struggle & juggle daily to find enough money to pay for clothes & food for their families. Dicretionary Housing Payment – (An extra amount recieved if a tenant is struggling to find Bedroom Tax payments) lat only six months, In some circumstances up to one year. There is no right of appeal, the government scrappet that on April 1st when the Bedroom Tax legislation becam law. If a tenant goe into arrears due to housing debt – they cannot transfer. It is vicious. People are getting into more & more debt & it will get worse. So if you can, lets stand up for our neighbours & friends who will be affected by this cruel legislation.. August 24th is a symbolic gesture. It is happening in 30 cities around the counry. Aberdeen is playing it’s part too. We don’t have much – but one thing we all have are voices. Let local & national politicians hear them.
My God George you are one big bit of rubbish! I have NEVER read anything positive from you – are you sick?
I concur with the Wind farms Bob, hideous things that scar the Countryside and soon to be our great coastline, uneconomical as well.
Alex Salmond is correct, our Council is Kamikaze, they ignored the wishes of the people with the CGP and have done nothing to slow the decline of our City Centre. Turning down a £50 Million gift to improve our centre and making it a party political issue once the people had already spoken will never be forgotten.
Suzanne does well to get her Brewdog mention in but omits to mention the huge government grant they have just received, shame on you for putting your political interests before a story regarding your favourite company.
I have no political leanings but must say the difference between the SNP helping local business and the local council attempting to play at being politicians is in stark contrast, one comes out shining, the other a shambles.
You constantly neglect to mention that only about 20% of the populace voted in the dodgy referendum supporting CGP George. Hardly, “the wishes of the people”,is it??
Ron,
There was a 52% turnout with 45,301 voting in favour of the project, that is in spite of the scaremongering from the no camp, that’s an incredible turnout for a vote on a garden.
George,
You’ve got it wrong AGAIN!! Hatred what hatred.? Anger yes but hatred come on!! Objections were NOT raised because he was building a golf course. Objections were raised because of WHERE he was building part of that golf course, and the unparalled actions of the Scottish Government in calling in the application before Mr Trump put in an appeal. A precedent has now been set and according to a golfing friend who is also a lawyer the Scottish Government may yet rue the day they took this action as no SSSI is now safe from predatory developers. George are you seriously suggesting a public inquiry or objections be raised because of how someone is perceived to live? Good heavens man there would be a public inquiry every day of the week if that was the case.The fact Trump is rich is irrelevant as I suspect you know full well. It is the unfailing attitude of Aberdeenshire Council,the local press and up till now the Scottish Government to bend over backwards towards this man when lesser mortals would have had their actions queried long ago.Rules are there for all to obey. Trumps refusal to take away the bunds from around Susan Munro’s and David Milne’s houses and his continual applications for retrospective planning permission have now at long last been queried by some in the Aberdeenshire Council. Not before time although I suspect he shall get away with it once again.Little wonder there are those who raise their voices in anger.
Bob,
The fact remains the professional objectors wouldn’t have been interested had this been Joe Bloggs building the course, take a look at Tillydrone where people are losing homes and part of their gardens so a bridge can be built, no a murmur, you can be sure if it was Mr Trump building the bridge there would be an outcry.
Socialists pick their targets carefully, all this rubbish about a SSSI is a smokescreen to attack the rich man in my opinion, do you even know what was special about the site? I forget.
George, Where have you been in the past few years. Not in Aberdeen obviously or you would have read all the letters of protest about Tillydrone in the local papers. There also have been various meetings held in Tillydrone which anybody could attend and many did.
As for your description of the SSSI as a being a convenient smokescreen to attack Mr Trump I can only surmise you class Scottish Natural Heritage as being socialists as in their report in 2007 they laid out all the benefits of this unique sand sheet at Menie {their words, not mine} They classed the dunes at Menie links as being of great importance both nationally and internationally.George your belief that all this is to do with Mr Trump being rich is becoming a little obsessive. The protests from ordinary people like myself and my wife would have been equally vociferous had part of the golf course been built where it was by anybody, be they rich or famous or neither. Whist I have no doubt there are some professional objectors in the world the vast majority who oppose Trump DO NOT come into this category.
Bob,
There are two holes within the boundary of the site of SSSi no building has been constructed on SSSI. The SNH rules are that they will work with the owners of the land they have designated a SSSI I cannot remember any objections by SNH to the building of the golf course and in fact in this very online publication in previous articles SNH were ridiculed for not protesting the development. In the report you refer to in your comments you will see that SNH have tried unsuccessfully to stabilize the dunes by using concrete blocks left over from WW11 and new blocks made from precast concrete pipe, surely the mixed vegetation used by Trump is more natural and sympathetic to the area than concrete, maybe this is why SNH never objected to the development because they seen it as realistic opportunity to preserve the dunes without the use of unnatural material at no cost to the public.
As for your comments on there would be a protest to the course no matter who was building it there was no protest to the building of the 9 hole extension to the Newburgh build on the Fovran links in 1996, whats changed since then only the developer and as George stated the rise of the professional objector.
Proof please that I, my wife and my friends,some of whom are regular golfers are “Professional objectors”. Planting marram grass does not “PRESERVE” the dunes merely stops them from shifting, which was their uniqueness in the first place. You don’t have to build a construction on an SSSI to destroy their uniqueness, merely interfere with the natural process is enough. George and Jim–We are never going to reach a compromise on this so this is my final post on this particular written article.
Bob,
What’s so interesting about a shifting sand dune?
I honestly can’t fathom that one out, it would have been a big deal if he removed all the dunes but he didn’t.
A big fuss over nothing, he’s built a course that will enhance tourism in the area and provide employment, he’s also constructed a beautiful course that will protect the dunes long term, wouldn’t you and others time be better served protesting at the windfarm proposal? Now that’s something that is really going to do some real damage to our coastline and wildlife. As Mr Trump doesn’t want them it seem the usual objectors have went quiet on that issue, get the windmills and Mr Trump won’t be happy seems to be more important than the damage the things will do, do you really want those monstrosities scarring our coastline?
The SNH did object when the Reporters were reviewing the planning; however, the objection they put up would have appealed to the scientific community and not the layman/business person / government official. Its objection though has been noted in several publications.
Mike
A long time friend of mine is convinced that by the end of this century we the human race shall have destroyed our planet either through blowing each other to smithereens or by our greed in using up all the Earth’s resources.
Agree Bob
Although I think it could be a more random date than the end of the century. Our systems to cope with 7 billion people are vulnerable to some natural disaster such as a mega-volcanic eruption, that everything could collapse fairly quickly. Not very cheery I know.
Kevin Stewart is now a lobby fodder on-message MSP, who always looked out of his depth as a cooncillor, heaven help us. The former leader who now heads up Manchester’s Pride is John Stewart, of the pro-CGP persuasion, but otherwise a seemingly able politician.
Absolutely! Thanks for that – error now fixed
The whole Bramble Brae saga bemuses me. What was the class teacher and Headmistress/master doing when they were apparently invaded? DOesn’t say a lot for our super secure schools does it. Mind you, it could have been worse. It could have been Barney Off His Rocket and not the illustrious fish that forced entry. Now that would have been scary for the poor wee kids.
We should ask ourselves what brought this legislation about. Could it have been the private landlords in the South East & London ripping off the taxpayer by charging inflated rents(Aberdeen being a close second)? Would a more sensible solution not have been to put in place legislation curbing rent levels?
It’s all very well bleating about tenants being in larger properties than they need. Had The CONservatives not raced to sell off the housing stock in the first place and instead brought about a massive social house building programme instead, the problem would have been partially resolved. The fact is that council housing was, in the main, two bed flats. Those allocated them were assessed on need. If you need a roof over your head you can’t afford to be too choosey. The problem is that not nearly enough one bedded properties were built leading to single people being offered two bedroomed properties which they did not need or want. Hardly their fault. To penalise them is fundamentally and morally wrong.
Ordinary people are being hit because of The Tories obsession with market forces and monetarism. They brought about the problem but are making no effort whatsoever to resolve it instead trying to put one section of the populace against the other. Divide and rule – the oldest tactic in the book.
It is maybe a bit hard for those of us who are city dwellers to understand, but bracken is a native British fern commonly found in woodland and heath land. It is pretty much impossible to eradicate and is part of the Scottish countryside like it or not. A fire hazard? I think not. Poisonous to mammals? Perhaps but who amongst us would fry it up for breakfast?
As to the culling of deer, that is debateable on many grounds. Deer both eat and destroy saplings by rubbing off the velvet from their antlers. They also enhance woodland by creating clearings which allow colonisers such as birch and sycamore to establish. The usual response from land managers is to cull, build deer fences or enclose plantings in 1.2m tubes. Any or all are effective against Roe Deer but only fences and culling are proof against Red Deer.
Gorse and indeed Broom are certainly contentious. We love them and hate them in equal parts. The severe winters of 2010 and 2011 destroyed much of the Scottish Gorse and Broom stock but again that is part of the natural cycle and has allowed the colonising Birch and Sycamore to seed and flourish in the landscape.
Tullos Hill is a changing environment and the human impact has been severe in the past as the four Bronze Age cairns suggest.
In this extract from the “Book of St. Fittick”, published in 1902, Dr. Thomas White Ogilvie describes what the scene looked like in his day.
“full of quiet charm, this little glen, with its Kirk on the height and its Kirk in the hollow, extending from the great gap in the cliff, which forms the Bay, up to the river, where, with majestic bend, it sweeps glittering and gurgling by Allenvale and Duthie Park, sweetest of resting places for the quick and the dead”
Perhaps a re-evaluation of this Voice article is due.
Picnic anyone?
A very interesting take; and there are those in the Council who’d love it if people forgot what has gone before. For openers, there is the forestry commission’s own soil report covering the pollution and the rocky soil matrix; trees that do grow over the domestic and industrial waste will be likely to fall over because of the soil matrix in the wind. Community councils in the area opposed the scheme when it emerged its proponents had deliberately hidden the deer cull from the public consultation. The public consultation for phase 2 of the ‘tree for every citizen’ scheme ignored the £43,800 which the city was forced to repay for the failure of phase one. The causes of the failure were acknowledged to include weeds as well as deer browsing. The weed issue is not being addresses; weeds are overtaking the saplings. The deer could have been humanely dealt with; the trees did not have to go on Tullos in the first place; but perhaps the LibDems were keen to keep at least one of their election pledges, and Aileen Malone insisted the scheme would go ahead. She prevented me and (happily now councillor) Andy Finlayson from addressing the committee she convened when we had fresh information (the cull, the cost of the failure, etc) which could have shed new light on the realities – she used the rather disingenuous excuse that since she had only called for a verbal report on the deer / tree situation, no one was allowed to address the committee. A vote was taken and almost everyone save the labour councillors voted against letting us speak. So much for open government. Twenty deer were to have been culled; 34 or 35 were killed – but the record-keeping was so poor we don’t actually know. Consultant Chris Piper got at least £70k for his work on this project; he produced a report that said a small but vocal minority were against the scheme: ignoring the petition signed by about 3.5K people and the opposition of the community councils. The existing ecosystem before the tree scheme was launched saw deer migrating on and off the hill for at least 70 years without the need for a cull; smaller mammals were driven off the hill when the bulldozers came in; and bracken now replaces the gorse that housed and fed these animals and many bird species – many of which were on the RSPB’s list of birds which are in danger of significant population decrease. The hill was a rubbish tip (including radioactive waste) which had turned into an improving meadow; we’ve allowed a small handful of people to turn it into a poor looking tree experiment where gorse is now replaced by bracken. For those interested in the history of what happened here, here’s the link to my report http://suzannekelly.yolasite.com/ . The then city council went out of its way to disregard the elected community councils, the science, the thousands who signed the petition, and the right of the deer to continue peacefully. When this current crop of trees eventually fails – whether early in their growth cycle because of the weeds or later, when the 90+ mph winds and salt spray do their work – we’ll be out of more money. This to me was a hugely wasteful, cruel, unscientific project all to please the LibDems and make their ‘tree for every citizen’ election plank look good. Let’s not forget what happened here, so we can make sure it doesn’t happen again.
I think that we are talking about quite different issues here. The politics of local conservation are perhaps needing to be set aside. The hill and its resident population of wildlife do need our understanding and support but perhaps in a more laid back way. Let it grow back without too much human interference perhaps.
Your point about what has gone before is of course valid. But perhaps in the long term, and I mean the very long term, it would be better to let nature take its course.
I think Aberdeenshire and Aberdeen City Council, must be two of the most deceitful and corrupt local authorities in Britain.
Fully agree with you Sean, on the City council point at least, who in their right minds would hold a referendum then ignore the result, in the process turning down over £50 Million pounds in donations, madness.
Councils would be way better off without these part time politicians controlling them, every councillor should be an independent doing the best for their areas, party politics has no place at council levels.
Sorry George but figures gleaned from census figures and council’s website suggest your figures are a wee bittie oot.
Population of Aberdeen City 224,970
Population eligible to vote 192,067
Votes cast including 92 spoilt votes 86,568
Now even allowing for the fact I was not top of the class for maths I make that about 45.1 % not 52% as you quote
You conveniently forget to mention that 41,175 were against the CGP. 4,126 of a majority is hardly a ringing endorsement for the project
1 is a majority Bob, considering the misinformation spread by the no side I’d call 4,126 a massive majority.
And then DIRECT democracy was ignored and we were left with a dank almost no go zone in our City Centre.
Those who shout loudest tend to be heard, the socialists did the shouting as a rich man was involved. Same old story in Aberdeen, the silent majority get ignored, their votes even get ignored.
Where are the improvements that were promised? I see nothing but a decaying centre when we could have had a dynamic vibrant centre to be proud of, the best thing was we didn’t even have to pay for it. Green space would have doubled and it would have had easy access for the infirm, disabled and families.
The activists move on to the next campaign proud that they’ve blocked badly needed redevelopment, do they care that DIRECT democracy was ignored, do they heck, they know best.
Who’s spreading misinformation now George ? Dank?Almost a no go area.? Try telling that to all the people who sat in the sunshine in the gardens over the past few months[loads of photos on websites to prove this fact}and funnily enough went unmolested by the so called “undesirables” We have also the wee small problem of the original public consultation vote, before which, Sir Ian Wood said he would walk away if that vote went against him. It did and he didn’t.HE didn’t accept a democratic vote then, preferring to carry on the fight until he got the result he wanted. So he is as guilty of thumbing his nose at democracy as is the Labour council who overturned the result.Remember we were all warned by the previously SNP led council that the referendum result would not be binding. Who’s to say that an SNP led council would not have ignored the result had it gone the other way. Here we go again George, it was all socialists who were responsible for the 41,000 voting the way they did,and they all did it because a rich man was involved. Shades of the same argument you have used over your support for another rich man Mr Trump. I have rarely read such a load of drivel
Bob,
I’ve lived in Aberdeen all my days and was not even aware a consultation was taking place, I’ve also read people boasting about how many times they voted in the said consultation, hardly a democratic vote I’m sure you’ll agree.
The only fair way was to ask everyone in the City, one person one vote, this they did and the result was clear.
I’ve no doubt they park was busy in the hot spell we had, is that enough for you? The park being busy for a handful of days over the Summer Months? Try going there from September through till May and the result will be very different.
A street level square covering the rail lines and road would have provided much more green space and would have been perfect for street markets, concerts, ice rink in Winter, cafe’s and bars with outdoor heating, our very own Covent garden/Trafalgar square with grass areas attached. It would have been accessible to all, my father is wheelchair bound, how does he get from the bus stop on Union street into the garden? How about the young family with prams en tow?
Actually I’d challenge you to go look there right now and tell me how well utilised the space is and how many people are in it, the last I went was the day of the International street market, Union Terrace was heaving with people, myself and my family were the only one’s who had taken some food into the garden, apart from two dodgy looking people in an archway it was deserted, it should be a focal point, a natural gathering place.
And I can assure you that the protests were Socialist led, scaremongering about huge debts and how it would bankrupt the City, all utter rubbish.
Bob,
It was the same people who were at the forefront of both the UTG and the Trump protests, it doesn’t take a genius to work out their real agenda, in my opinion of course.
When ever I read George Smith’s posts I have a wee laugh to myself, as I’m sure he must be the double of Alf Garnett…………”BLOOMIN SOCIALISTS” !!!
“I’ve no doubt they park was busy in the hot spell we had, is that enough for you? The park being busy for a handful of days over the Summer Months? Try going there from September through till May and the result will be very different.”
It’s a PARK, George, min. Ken, a PARK.
Fowk tend nae to ging to parks when it’s weet, snawin or caul, as a rule.
If you can provide me wi user statistics for Hazleheid, Duthie Park, Seaton Park, Stewart Park and Victoria Park, in the period during which you say UTG is teem, and show me that per square metre they are any better “used” that UTG, I will donate 50 quid to a charity of your choice.
I put “used” in inverted commas, because its needs definition.
I love Lochnagar. I admire its snowy corrie, or as Byron described it “the steep, frowning glories” fae Kingseat efter I’ve peched up the brae fae the Pitmedden road on my bike, it’s a magnificent spectacle as it hoves into view at Tullich on the A93 jist efter Cambus O May, it lowers ower the hale o Deeside as you approach Kinker fae Torphins, it is so magnificent that there is a marked viewpoint on the Tarland road, jist east of the Culsh Earth Hoose that allows you to breathe in the visual magnificence of the plain between Pressendye and the Mounth. It is a magnificent natural resource.
That’s how I “use” Lochnagar. I have climbed it often, but nae every day.
Do you want Lochnagar made into a theme park, or have the corrie riven in twa to allow folk to walk straight through fae Deeside to Glen Doll withoot haein to dee a that tiring climbing? Maybe if a wealthy “philanthropist” offers enough, the fowk of Braemar and district could have a non-binding referendum on it?
Likewise, even when I’m nae in UTG, I love looking ower it fae Union Brig and seeing HMT dominate that bonny slope. I “use” it every time I walk doon Union Street. Try it, it might cheer you up.
Happy now? (I suspect nae, but hey-ho).
I have to admit that I am lucky and the bedroom tax does not affect me, but I think it was introduced for genuine reasons i.e. to free up larger houses for those that need it. I know looking into it the system has some serious flaws especially when you read of parents with sons, daughters in the army being hit with it, but if you only need a two bedroomed house and you are in a 3 then I believe you should downsize and let the ones that need the 3 bedroomed move in. Again the flaw here would be that the Aberdeen council apparently does not have the smaller houses to downsize people, but it this actually true, I mean has anyone actually counted the empty properties the council actually has.
We could look back and blame the fact that the council brought it the right to buy, but the main problem we now face is the fact that councils across the country did not invest that money into building other properties for future generations of tenant’s on this is what we are now left with.
But going back to the original point I still believe that this is a good thing providing it is managed correctly and all possible solutions have been examined
I think the people in Fochabers must be imbeciles to build a fountain in commemoration to a mass murderer.
[Slight edit to clarify opinion based nature of comment – Moderator ]
Ah see what you’re sayin’ Sean, and empathise to an extent, and at least agree that it’s ower bonny a fountain to commemorate such an ugly set of events.
In present times it is commonly known and understood that the Anglo-Zulu war was unnecessary and brutal, endorsed by Queen Victoria and driven by the deliberately perpetuated belief that Zulus were inferior, but malicious and dangerous beings.
However at the time of building the memorial, and before we could get our info via a couple of kewords and a google search, general public opinion was shaped by what news came out of Africa intact, and what of that was deemed fit for distribution by the powers that be ( or rather, were ).
In view of this, I find your comment about the people of Fochabers a bit harsh, particularly as only a tiny empowered and privileged minority would have been party to the decision, and would have been similarly influenced by approved accounts of events.
It is good that different feelings and opinions are allowed to comment in Aberdeen Voice, and I am grateful (and wiser) for your comment Fred. I made my comment after reading the article, and the article made me feel angry.
The British Empire invaded and occupied many countries that the Empire had absolutely no right to and this was done in a very cruel, self-righteous and merciless manner. Hundreds of thousands of indigenous peoples died (perhaps even millions), while Britain pillaged and those in charge became the richest in the world.
When I watch the news broadcasts from former occupied countries such as Nigeria and Zimbabwe, I can’t help but think that their problems and suffering started because of Britain. If I was Prime Minister I would quadruple the overseas budget and that can be paid for by taxing all the millionaires and billionaires at eighty per cent, (which would also sort out Britain’s poverty).
I see where you are coming from Sean but I don’t agree. For a start, in those days of “Empire” the common people were the underdogs. To get ahead you had to be part of the establishment. Wilson worked as a bank clerk then saw a way out. LIke many before and after, he went off to war, little realising the folly. The great lie, the old lie and the fibs we were all brought up with. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mores.
Its a story, a good tale and that’s all Sean. As to the funding of the fountain I suspect it was by subscription. There are many like it in Moray.
I really take issue on one point though. The use of the insulting term “imbecile”. Its not healthy to insult folk.
Its rude and its insulting not only to the people of Fochabers, but to us Scots. We are better than this. We can see the other point of view. We are strong because of this.
There is room for informed and indeed passionate debate and that is why I write for the Voice and indeed many other papers. But insulting the people of Fochabers is a step too far.
I am happy to discuss further.
I didn’t realise you were medically qualified Suzanne, but you must be, or you wouldn’t presume to hand out valuable advice about sunscreen. Oh, sorry, my mistake, you’re not – you’re handing out patronising misinformation. Fifteen minutes a day without sunscreen is actually very good for children. The sun is their best source of vitamin D. Stick to what you know. But then I suppose your column would be considerably shorter.
[ Edited very slightly to remove risk of being viewed as defamatory – Moderator ]
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/travelhealth/Pages/SunsafetyQA.aspx
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/10052972/Six-year-old-diagnosed-with-rickets-after-using-sunscreen.html
Sean, Zimbabwe is in fact where this slice of colonial history took place. Wilson is buried next to Cecil Rhodes.Rhodesia was the precurser to Zim.
As a former colleague of Maggi and one of the “proof” readers, I can thoroughly recommend this book as it was truly written from the heart, Maggi is truly inspirational and a great laugh!
Hello Maggi, I bought your book on Kindle and have to tell you that it does you no favours ! There are sentences left unfinished, particularly at the end of paragraphs……as a reader this is seriously irritating! There is of course the option that this is intentional ! if so why? The bits (and they are bits….all broken up ) that I have read though are great………not sure it be such a monumental effort on the part of the reader though !
Love Lorainne xx
I too was one of the proof readers and found reading the book Dying Embers & Shooting Stars to be truly inspiring. Maggi is a selfless and committed individual who has always puts the needs of others before her own. Through her dedication and commitment many others have benefitted and its an honour to be her friend.
Will share this piece. I had assumed, probably wrongly that when the police break down your door that they might be responsible for making good the damage. That holds whether you are guilty or innocent since your loved ones probably live in the house and a zero door situation seems harsh.
Dod has, as the article suggests, clearly been the victim of a significant injustice. It’s disturbing to think that something like this can happen at all, but the fact that he has still not been compensated for either the damage to his property or to his reputation, not to mention the adverse effect that this must have had on his health and wealth simply beggars belief.
The authorities in Aberdeen need to be called to account and shamed.
Aberdeen Police City Division is responsible for policing the metropolitan area of Aberdeen, covering the major population areas and business and commercial environs of Scotland’s third city. Divisional Headquarters is situated on Queen Street, in the heart of the city centre.
They can be contacted at the usual 999 number.
The Small print:
Deaf, stupid or hard of hearing citizens can contact us via TextRelay on 1 800 1 101. Calls to 101 from landlines and mobiles cost 15 pence per call, no matter what time of day you call or how long your call lasts. International callers and those in the UK residing outside of Scotland should call either +44 1786 289 070 (International callers) or 01786 289 070 to contact Police Scotland. 101 FAQs can be found here. Calls to Police Scotland may be recorded for training and service improvement purposes. No doors or windows were harmed during the writing of this disclaimer. All rights reserved. ©
May I just point out that Glen Urquhart is in Inverness-shire and not Ross-shire.
Perhaps there are more than one Glen Urquhart’s Ruth. Happy to corrected if I am in error though.
The Roll of Honour for the Shangani Patrol reads:
MAJOR ALLAN WILSON:
Born 1856 in Glen Urquhart, Co. Ross, Scotland.
Son of Robert Wilson.
Educated: Kirkwall Grammar School, Orkney, and Milnes’ Institution, Fochabers, Co. Moray.
Emigrated to South Africa, 1878.
Came to Mashonaland in 1892.
More at http://www.newrhodesian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2929
He’ll be lucky if he gets any more than an apology as Grampian Police appear to be completely corrupt.
I feel sickened to think that Trump will be allowed to take over nearly the whole of Balmedie sands, It is a disgrace that he is even allowed to be even considering it. It seems money talks in this tragedy again. What makes me very suspicious is the fact that he is acting as if he has the land already, recently walked our dogs there and he has littered the area with small flags to plot his course, This greedy land destroyer has to be stopped.
We have to act as a voice of the people of Scotland now before all our green areas, wildlife reserves, parks and beaches have all gone.
Strange post, he does own the land already, you were walking on his land. And he hasn’t taken over the balmedie sands nor will he ever, you’ll still be able to walk on all the beaches to your hearts content.
So in reality he’s done NOTHING wrong, you have nothing to be sickened about.
Is he gonnae pit up bunds tae hide Balmedie country park?
I’m not a local resident, but I didn’t know anything about a consultation. It’ll be interesting to see if the local press (I don’t follow it anymore) mention it, and urge people to have their say. I listen to radio Scotland most mornings, there has been no mention of it there.
I have the greatest respect for Suzanne but am still none the wiser about how to comment on this issue. The link to http://suzannekelly.yolasite.com/ does not help.
thanks all for letting me know some of you have difficulties opening the two pages of the reply form; and it looks like quite a few of you accessed the yola page. I will upload a different, clearer version later today, before noon, and advise you when that is done. The two page form can be opened, printed, completed and sent to Trump International Golf Links Scotland either by email (if you have a scanner) or post. The photos beneath the form are of the text displayed at the exhibition so you can read and decide your position.
If you don’t want to wait for my PDFs to be uploaded to Yola, then why not drop a line to admin@trumpgolfscotland.commailto:admin@trumpgolfscotland.com , tell them you read their exhibition materials but you need to have a comment form sent to you (by email). They should be happy to oblige, and you might want to ask any questions if you email them, too.
My objections to the design will be environmental concerns (the previous environmental monitoring deteriorated); proximity to the public park (danger from flying golfballs for a start), and proximity to the water of some holes (possible further collapse). When I copy the local councillors I will ask that NO further approval be granted until MEMAG or a better environmental monitoring group is installed, until there is a decision on the requested public hearing, and until there are guarantees from TIGLS that there will be no further deviations from approved plans, current or future
I feel angered that someone who’s not even British, let alone Scottish, has so much control over the council simply because he has money. It’s worse than a tragedy
Since when was someone’s nationality important?
He’s holding a consultation and following the correct planning procedure, how on earth is that controlling a council?
Why did you even go?
Would you have went if it was just another golf course being built? Craibstone was built not that long ago, did you go along and object to that?
This hounding of Mr Trump by you and serial objectors is very tiresome, leave the man and his business alone, he owns the land and subject to planning laws can do what he likes, it isn’t an incinerator he’s building, it’s another great golf course. Think of the tourism it will bring and the jobs it will create.
This new site has no sites of scientific interest, the best objection you have is it borders a park! come on, the likes of Auchmill borders peoples houses and no one has ever been injured by a flying ball.
As I’ve stated before, in my opinion the only reason you’re interested is because you don’t like Mr Trump, that is a very poor excuse and leaves a sour taste in my mouth that some people can be so vindictive.
Having just read through the entire consultation paper I can see not one reason to object, I wish Mr Trump all the best with his new course and thank him for bringing employment and tourists to the area.
I’d also like to commend him for his efforts in increasing the wildlife habitat in his plans.
What was once farming and scrub land will soon be a magnificent well maintained golf course, for that we should all think him and his team.
Now if only the plans for those ugly wildlife damaging turbines could be thrown out things would be perfect, I look forward to the Aberdeen voice reporters getting their teeth into that one, a real environmental disaster and an eyesore for us all, one we all need to unite behind to defeat, over to you Suzanne.
And trumps golf course aint ugly ? it be an effin eyesore once houses and the hotel go up.
I wonder whats in it for you george smith?
[ Post amended. Paul, you are very welcome to challenge input from George or any other, but please leave the personal insults out, cheers – Moderator ]
If you know of employment he’s brought to the area, please do send your evidence, for there seems very little of that. Thanks George; always a pleasure to hear from you
The lack of tents in the area suggest the tourists who have used the course lived in hotels and guest houses, the grass appears to be cut on a regular basis which suggest greenkeepers are employed, you never tire of mentioning the security, again more jobs. I suspect one can eat and drink at the course, more service jobs, waiters, porters, chefs, cleaners, great news in my opinion, not everyone is lucky enough to be well educated, people need to live and feed their families.
Lets add in the fact the tourists will be eating outwith the course, that means local cafes and restaurants will be getting business, as will taxi and bus companies. Let’s also look at the pic in the header, we see a young waiter and Mrs Malone, so that’s the service industry and the course management. That’s before you get to the local cinemas, shops, take away’s, whatever type of service is used by a tourist to the area.
Oil won’t be here forever, we need to get tourism in the area, it may turn out to be our most valuable resource, our area is beautiful and golf courses will only enhance that, take off your blinkers.
Reply to George Smith. I suspect that most of the players LIVE in the Aberdeen area, or are visiting on business, and would be staying in the area even if the course was not in operation.
“Oil won’t be here forever” There is no evidence of production falling. No oil field has been decommissioned. Fields at the ends of their lives require MORE labour rather than less. Income from oil will be with us for many years to come.
” dirty-blonde woman who emphatically refused to identify herself ”
Out of interest Suzanne, why should this woman be forced into identifying herself, what has it got to do with you or anyone else?
I’m sure she has good reason for keeping quiet, we’ve seen in the past how the objectors to various projects have attempted to dig up dirt on anyone who stands in their way, Sarah Malone has herself been the subject of various attacks, from her looks to whom she married has all been used in the past, I too have had my facebook page dug into and been accused of being a racist, not to mention my workplace being used as a weapon to tar me, she did the right thing keeping quiet in my opinion.
let’s think George. A public consultation offers the chance to put your questions to the team who want their design approved. I sit down and am told I’m speaking to Martin Hawtree, the designer. Every other question I ask – or near enough it – is interrupted by Anne Faulds telling him not to answer, declaring the question is not relevant, or otherwise interfering with my conversation. I’d say that’s fairly relevant. Why she thought it was best not to identify herself to me, when her identity was easily enough confirmed by other visitors and a 5 second look at the internet is a good question too. Sarah Malone would have, I thought, known who I was; after all, my picture atop the collapsed course was on a fair few of the UK’s front pages. Naturally when I was asked to identify myself, I did so. But so much for a chance to get my questions answered. To be fair to Hawtree, he was pleasant enough, if not party to information I was after.
Suzanne, I don’t know your questions so couldn’t comment on them but suspect you would have been there to be divisive, why not list the questions you posed so we can make up our own mind, I suspect none were in the least encouraging of the good work the Trump team has done in the area nor of the employment or tourism the courses will create.
I don’t why you expect to be treated well when you constantly deride the good work that has went on there, actually did you ever set foot on the estate before Trump bought it?
I’ve been many many times and see nothing but constant improvement, I have an open mind though.
You object for environmental reasons, hahaha, now there’s a surprise. Not a cheep from you on an attempt to plant 650 foot wind turbines into the sea in the area, the catastrophic damage to wildlife by these things is well documented, that’s before you even get to the asthetics but you’re concerned someone may be hit by a wayward golf ball. You couldn’t make it up.
As the “farmer” with the rundown farm says, “if the turbines p**s off Trump then I’m all for them”, at least he had the guts to be honest, you hide the fact in my opinion, you just can’t accept that a rich man is doing something constructive in our area.
You’re in danger of losing support for real issues with this continued witchhunt in my opinion, the look of sheer delight in your face that the marquee tent wasn’t busy says it all, I don’t think you had any intention of going there with an open mind, you went to collect information that you hoped could damage the application.
Your socialist agenda is quite clear, I wish you would have the guts to just come out with the truth instead of trying to blur things with an environment slant, hopefully the councillors will see through the likes of you and vote this perfectly good application through, the vast majority in the area support Mr Trump and realise oil won’t last forever, we could do without the same objectors trying to stop progress in the name of their political beliefs.
btw That’s champagne socialists, the type who own huge houses and shareholdings in companies and drive expensive cars, Aberdeen is full of them, always middle class silver spoon in the mouth types who don’t struggle for work. Real socialists would laugh at them.
In the past few months when there has been discussion in the television news and the papers about this second course, I haven’t come across any mention of the permanent club house. You would think that “The World’s Greatest Golf Course”, which is now going to have an adjoining “Magnificent” golf course, (and dedicated to his mother). Would not have a cheap prefab club house made out of timber.
I unfortunately didn’t go to the consultation, but if there wasn’t any mention of the glorified stone built club house, I find this a bit suspicious.
Public consultation is held, as I understand, for the purpose of informing interested members of the public and to afford them the opportunity to ask questions. It seems unreasonable of TIGLS to present a team to the public, which was either incapable or unwilling to answer a question about The Scottish Outdoor Access Code, particularly since they had published a statement about it and how it applies to golf courses. Would it have been too much trouble for TIGLS’ team to have had a copy to hand or via internet access?
I doubt the lady, who refused to identify herself was a lawyer since even a junior lawyer or anyone interested in outdoor pursuits would have been able to answer that question. Unless, of course, this consultation process disguises TIGLS’ partiality and their disrespect for their neighbours and the public.
John,
Suzanne makes it clear in the article she opposes the course, she turned up with her mind made up, the people there are more than aware of the small group of people who continually hound the project, why should they bend over backwards when it’s clear no matter what they say it won’t make a jot of difference.
George,
I accept that TIGLS would want to put on a good show of their proposals and planned new golf course. My point, however, is simply that as part of a “public consultation” the organisation should be prepared to field questions from those who may be opposed to it. Questions about public access should be easily answered, unless there is some reason to avoid them.
Perhaps TIGLS needs to try winning over those who have been hounded by the project, in particular their own neighbours at Menie. Support for them is anything but small.
Was this a statutory consultation? How could you tell? Were there any officers from the council in attendance if for no other reason than to ensure that the minimum requirements of the process were fulfilled? Interesting too that both of the commentators criticising Suzanne and her journalism don’t offer up either an alternative report of the public consultation or any substantive answers to the pertinent questions that were put to the ‘professional’, if anonymous, representatives of TIGLS. I’m wondering if these critics understand the current status of communication between Aberdeenshire Council and TIGLS which is (stated explicitly in official communication from said council) – Speak to my lawyers!
Dearie me Suzanne. Poor wee Stuartie. The man’s lost maist of his hair on his headlong rush to fill his various bank books to ensure a long and happy retirement. Should we really be so hard on him? After all, it’s the norm,nowadays, to rip off everyone in sight, especially local authorities and, let’s face it, our’s has a long history of selling off it’s assets at well below market value.
Got to agree with you in regard to Sir Ian’s continued obsession with Granite Webs. He seems to have forgotten about his pledge to, “walk away,” if the public didny like his master plan. Remember all the “consultations,” where anyone going against the proffered edifice was simply ignored? Then there was the “referendum” where, apparently, 20% of the electorate voting in favour of something which had neither been formalised, with content set in stone – sorry,”granite” – and costed, accurately, to the last penny,, with no potential for The City being left to hold the baby if the bathwater ran out appears to be a massive majority in favour. Wonder if that vote could possibly have been rigged? I mean, if one side manages, in various dubious ways, to pour funding in, well over and above that allowed for referenda, could that be, ever so slightly, be construed as an unequal bias?
Of course, Sir Ian’s benevolence must be welcomed. His dictatorial stance on how the money must be spent is not. His recent comments in the illustrious P&J asserted that,”road, air and sea transport,” to our magnificent city must be improved. Perhaps he could allow his benevolence to be utilised to that end? Aberdeen Crossrail springs to mind, along with “The Haudupagain,” upgrade. I am sure these improvements would benefit the good citizenry more than filling Union Terrace Gardens with concrete and turning it in to Teletubbyland. But , then again, when the oil and gas run out, we would all have someplace to relax, maybe even beg, because half the populace will be unemployed, apparently, and living, hand to mouth, on benefits (if they still exist). A crumbling, concrete edifice, filled with dying trees etc, is just the place indeed for the great and the good to stroll through and drop the odd pound coin in to the polystyrene cups being proffered by the less fortunate.
You would trust Barney with £50 Million pounds? lol
I wouldn’t trust him to run my bath let alone a City regeneration program, and as it is Mr Woods money he has every right to say how it should be spent.
You omit to mention the only fair referendum was won with a clear majority who were in favour of the CGP, you objectors just hate that fact and try every dirty tactic to try and discredit it, you can’t accept that other people in the City have differing opinions to you, even then you still think your way is the best as you believe you’re more educated than the oiks who voted yes, makes me ill the attitude of the far left in our City. They stay in luxury yet play at being socialists, we called them snotty when I was a kid, know it alls.
George,
I am beginning to feel sorry for you. You come across as being consumed with hatred against anyone who doesn’t see things your way. All the referendums were fair but unfortunately the SNP led council declared before the
last referendum took place that it was not binding. Where is the fairness in that? A pointless exercise in my book. You still seem to be seeing “Commies under the bed”. You certainly would have been at home in the company of Senator Joe McCarthy.
Perhaps you should have read the letters page in a recent addition of the P&J George. One eminently sensible lady suggested that, if a compromise had been reached, covering the rail and road to increase green space, everyone would have been happy. Shame Sir Ian couldn’t compromise or the whole sorry saga could have been averted.
Since when did a 20% vote in favour of anything become an overwhelming majority George? Are you actually saying that that the referendum was fair after it was proved financial bias was overwhelming? You also neglect to mention the small matter that the public, overwhelmingly, threw out The Granite Web at public consultation. What’s the point of consulting to ignore the result I wonder? Could it be there were ulterior motives ta play? Perhaps a 5 star hotel or another shopping mall in the fullness of time when the concrete began to crumble?
Perhaps, and only perhaps, when Edinburgh’s Princes St Gardens are covered in concrete. we might consider doing likewise. As said above the gardens are a common good asset. There is no reason why they could not be regenerated in the way Duthie Park was. Only we and Edinburgh have a green oasis slap bang in our city centres. We should be proud of that and protect it from developers wanting to make a fast buck at all costs.
Well said !!
[ In my opinion ] The referendum result was ignored, the one chance all the people of Aberdeen got to have a fair vote on the matter was discarded, as was the £50 Million gift and the TIF funding that would have came from new business rates.
btw To even question the Wood family trusts work in Africa is despicable in my opinion, they could quite easily sit on the money they have but have generously given much to help people fend for themselves, what have you done to help these people live?
Once again you choose to attack a business leader, someone who provides much needed employment in the area, your agenda seeps through with every article you make in my opinion, you just can’t stand to see a well off person propose any idea without interfering.
Look at the state of our City, it’s a shambles, Mr Wood has said the £50 Million may still be on the table if the council intend to spend it wisely, why not thank him for the offer instead of another negative article?
I’m sure no one in their right mind would give Barney and co a £50 Million cheque to spend as they wished, that would be a disaster.
[ Post amended slightly to clarify statement is opinion based. Stating something is a fact does not make it so – Moderator ]
My posts are waiting on moderation while a later post appears before it, sorry if my comments are uncomfortable but someone has to take a stand against the agenda filled stuff that appears on here.
if you’re going to start biased editing then I guess I’m wasting my time.
[George, it is plainly obvious that you dominate the comments sections in terms of both number of posts and length of post. This demands significantly of our time and attention, particularly as your posts are generally more contentious. We do not work to your timescale or anyone else’s, merely in accordance with time we have to give. We are not obliged to publish, and will be justified in ignoring your input if it becomes a conduit for expressing disrespect for those who take time to process it – Moderator ]
Who elected this FOUTG group?
I’m a citizen of the City and have been all my life, I oppose the views of this group, they sure don’t speak for me or the majority who voted to raise the garden.
I would like them to leave the garden alone if they’re not elected or approved by the Council.
Ron,
The CGP would have doubled the green space and been accessible to all, that includes the disabled and those with buggies. At the moment the garden will be empty, if it as street level with facilities that wouldn’t have been the case, it was a massive missed opportunity.
They don’t have to be elected, they’re just making suggestions. The planning department will decide if the plans they produce are viable and worth proceeding with.
Would you be in favour of a solution that was less expensive but improved disabled access (disabled people can access the UTG just now) and brought better use of the area? You never seem to come back on here and respond to questions George, which is a shame as you might get some support for your points of view. I never liked the granite web, as I thought it was destined to over-run spetacularly and the engineering of it seemed dubious at least. Do you genuinely believe they could have poured the levels of concrete required to fill UTG without bringing the city to a stand still for months or years and still come in on budget with a good looking final product? Genuinely? I’d like to here your answers to this, and the questions that Suzanne raises in her other article about safety across the granite walkways?
You’ve been listening to those opposing it for too long i’m afraid, it wouldn’t have been a case of pouring concrete in till it filled up!
Structural engineers and architects said it could be done and it was properly costed from those reports, even if there was a shortfall Mr Wood has said he’d make that up, do you honestly believe he would walk away and leave it partially finished?
As for the safety aspects again do you really think the Worlds best architects would leave the project finished if it had safety issues? With all due respect Suzanne is not an expert in any of these fields.
The garden and City centre need upgraded, we need the same vision our forefathers had when they created Union street, an improvement here and there and a few licks of paint won’t do the job.
With a little vision this could be our own Covent Garden/Trafalgar square.
[ Unfounded defamatory remark removed – Moderator ]
Thanks George. I’m not suggesting they would have just filled it with concrete, but there would have been an inordinate amount requiring transportation. The city would have been at a standstill.
I don’t believe Ian Wood would have footed the bill for overrun, and there is clearly no mitigation of safety concerns on the walkways – it doesn’t take an architect to see that. As far as I’m aware Mr Wood, or the architect have not responded to questions regarding this (or the shipment of concrete to the site, or the ability to restore the vegetation).
Union street originally bankrupt the city and is now a wreck of pound shops and bookies. It’s horrendous. The UTG plans (Wood’s ones) would do nothing to change that. An upgrade is required, a sympathetic upgrade that gets more use out of the gardens, with better access and better facilites – not a £140M over-write. UTG is a stunning location, that could be made significantly better for little money. We don’t need more commercial space, or more parking, we need more ingenuity, imagination and pride. Less it more in this instance.
George,
You attack the group FOUTG for being unelected and not approved by the council and do not speak for those who were for the CGP.
ACSEF are also unelected and certainly do not speak for those 41,000 souls who voted no. FOUTG most certainly did and thank goodness still do Perhaps you wish to adopt the fascist approach of we’re right and anyone who opposes is most definitely wrong.
Bob,
I prefer the democratic approach, one vote, one person. I think it fascist to ignore democracy, as was the case here.
Covering the road and railway, while maintaining the existing green space would have done exactly the same thing George, at significantly less cost would it not? As I recollect, Sir Ian’s benevolence only extended to an additional £35m. His placing that offer made one think that an overspend was inevitable, which it probably was. They simply can’t get away with ignoring the public at every consultation and then saying the referendum was fair and unbiased. The whole thing was a PR disaster and well you know it. What would have happened when the concrete crumbled, as it inevitably does?
Ron,
Mr Wood has stated he will look at other plans, I’m sure a compromise like this would be the type of thing he had in mind, unfortunately (and I have to be careful what I say as some of my posts are now being discarded) I have no doubt it will be met by the same opponents, they won’t work with Mr Wood in any circumstance because of who he is.
It’s a real shame that no matter what he does he gets attacked, same goes for Mr Trump and Mr Milne, these type of blinkered agendas will get us nowhere and we can’t afford to keep knocking back huge investments in our City.
[ Post removed. Read carefully before making such overtly defamatory remarks – Moderator]
Would you mind emailing the post back to me so I can rewrite, didn’t realise i’d been defamatory, apologies if anyone was offended by the content.
[ Arranging this now – Moderator ]
George:
“….didn’t realise i’d been defamatory….”
You’ve been picked up on this quite a few times in previous editions, is the message not getting through?
IJM,
On rereading the article I posted I can let you know that it wasn’t defamatory, I have a great deal of experience in this law and successfully defended myself in a court of law on the matter. Unfortunately the interpretation of the law appears to differ from person to person.
I thank you for your wise words though, although you might be better reading the alleged defamation before commenting in the future.
Hello George, at the risk of boring Voice readers who’ve already got the message, it is not your belief of what is/ isn’t defamatory that matters, it is ours. This message has been past to you previously. Some of the recent comments I saw of yours were, in my opinion absolutely defamatory. Congratulations on you – you defended yourself successfully in a defamation case in the past. I on the other hand don’t wish to wind up in court defending, thanks very much.
As I said Suzanne, the interpretation of the law differs from person to person, If I was editor here I wouldn’t have included some of the comments you attributed concerning Mr Milne, you obviously think they’re ok so fair enough, to be honest the readership here is so small bringing a case would hardly be worthwhile.
Regardless, as ever it’s your paper and you can publish what you like, it is my opinion you’re more likely to chop posts from those not agreeing with the author but again that’s just my opinion and your prerogative to edit as you see fit.
You should perhaps read the judges findings in the case I was involved in, it may provide a little more insight into defamation laws on the internet, I know it has been used as case law in several cases since.
BTW It should be passed, not past.
yes, you are right; it should have been ‘past’; it’s almost as if I were concentrating on more important things.
George, there are reasons why some of your recent posts were not included. The following will help you determine these, and to understand why no explanation was given on these latest edits.
Defamation is not the only reason for removing posts. Gratuitous insults, Spamming or repetition ( ie. repeatedly stating the same as has been contributed in previous posts … eg. how many times now have you told us you went to the international market and found UTG empty? ), posts which are not relevant to the actual article, posts which add nothing to the debate other than which suit your own agenda ( eg that everyone who disagrees with you is a ‘champagne socialist’, far left activist etc ).
Posts being overly personal/personalised. Accusing others of acting in accordance with a particular motive/agenda ( which, unless substantiated, appears to exist in your own version of reality ), presenting untruths as fact, presenting opinion as statements of fact, casting aspertions on fellow posters on issues which have little or mo relevance to the article, and generally being unnecessarily unpleasant towards others.
Furthermore, if anyone is found to be member, associate, supporter or representative of a group/organisation which promotes/advocates discrimination/hatred/exploitation on the grounds of religion, race/ethnic background, sex, age, or nationality, they will be permanently blocked from posting.
You have 153 posts approved, and very few have been removed or amended. Many of your 153 approved posts have actually been passed in spite of having breached the above criteria for removal/moderation, and all so we could be seen to be inclusive.
We have reached a point now where we have given you more guidance than we have felt the need to give even to any single article writer, and have attempted to offer an explanation for every single edit, from the slightest, to complete removal.
You may well have successfully defended a defamation case, but you appear to have learned little from it. We have gone out of our way to provide guidance rather than not have your input included in our comments sections, and feel that we have done more than enough, and certainly well beyond our obligations.
Therefore, you will no longer receive the favourable treatment which we have not felt the need to offer other posters, and you will no longer have a moderator spend time and effort explaining every single edit – except in cases where the edit required is minor, and we believe the quality of information/argument you offer is significantly higher than average ( for you as well as others ).
You are of course still welcome to contribute your comments, but if you wish to see all of your comments published, in their entirity, you will do well to stay on topic, deal in verifiable facts, soundly based opinion, and be significantly more respectful towards fellow posters.
Editor,
I am repeating the same comments some weeks as it’s the same arguments and articles that are appearing weekly, anti Trump and anti CGP.
I also go out of my way to be courteous to people regardless of their view, me having a differing view has singled me out for special treatment. I note you have alluded to the old EDL red herring, liking a comment on a facebook page years ago does not make me associated.
I suspect most of the people who post here are friends, if you want left in peace to pat yourselves on the back then I’d suggest making your paper a members only closed shop, if you want the view of the average man in the street then keep as is.
I’ve done nothing to warrant this attention except disagree with the content of the articles, these are subjects I feel strongly on, if you don’t wish to read my comments then go ahead and block me. I won’t be bullied because of my beliefs.
George, we are simply asking you to observe criteria which apply to all, although it appears few others need to be reminded of these
If your problem is with having your posts moderated, then I suggest you stick to the football forums. It would appear they are less concerned about what you post publicly.
Has anyone considered putting a large concrete structure on top of the gardens to protect them? I, for one, would be in favour of that.
I dare say George that the dictionary definition of gift isn’t this:
I hand over 50m, you give me 90m you can’t afford, and a bunch of land, I get to keep the developed land, you get to keep a massive debt for decades and an embarrassing concrete carbunkle.
Do you give your kids presents for Christmas then take the cost out of their pocket money then flog them on eBay? (framed pictures of Ian Woods no doubt)
The 90 Million was coming from TIF funds, that’s new business rates that go to Central government as it stands but would have been diverted to be used here, you know to regenerate the City, despite the scaremongering here it wouldn’t have cost the council one penny, to say otherwise is just another of the blatant lies spun by those opposing it.
And concrete carbunkle is far from the truth, the green space provided would have more than doubled, again another scare story spun by those opposing it.
Aberdeen badly needs regenerating and the last people to be trusted to do that are councillors playing at being politicians, there isn’t a person on this planet who would trust them with a blank canvas and that kind of money.
Remember, the people of Aberdeen voted for the project, doesn’t democracy mean a thing to you!
Just to clarify, Mr Wood would not have owned the land if the project went ahead, I don’t blame anyone for thinking otherwise as the scare stories from the objectors were so varied.
The funny thing is the objectors complain the local media are biased then constantly ram mistruths down everyone’s throat, pot, kettle!
George,
I used to work for the Press and Journal and Evening Express when they were both quality newspapers. I was at a funeral of an ex Aberdeen Journals colleague recently and bumped into one or two others who had retired. All were bemoaning the lack of quality reporting in both papers nowadays.!!!
Is this the Aberdeen Voice or the Anti-Trump Voice as this is no more a piece on the pro’s and cons of the proposed course (which don’t actually appear to have been discussed in any way despite 2 days of posts on the subject save for an anecdotal (and unrealistic) reference to people potentially being hit by golf balls in the neighbouring country park) than it is simply a personal attack on Donald Trump, his organisation and others employed by Trump to develop the ocurse.
Your site appears to pride itself on the independence of its journal which owuld suggest at least a degree of impartiality in your journal yet the last 2 days’ posts scream of an entrenched one-sided viewpoint, clouded by personal grievance rather than an objective assessment of the project as a whole.
I may be wrong. perhaps you plan to offer a pro-Trump and pro-project piece in your next post? From viewing previous posts however I suspect not.
It just seems a little sad that the through AV people of Aberdeen and the surrounding shire have, in theory, an independent organisaiton to report for them beyond traditional media on issues affecting their local area, but in reality it [ appears to be ] simply a blog to promote personal agendas and vendettas.
[ Post amended to remove direct unsubstantiated accusation. Steve, as stated several times, we accept contributions from anyone, and provided the material is relevant to the people of Aberdeen and the North east, reasonably well written, opinion having basis, facts verifiable, and does not breach legal boundaries, we will process in as favourable a manner as any other piece, regardless of the writers views. To date, we have been unable to publish only 22 articles recieved in over 3 years, and never due to the writers political leanings or the view expressed. As ever, we remind you that if you you are able to contribute material which you feel provides balance, you are as welcome to write an article as anyone else. – Moderator ]
By all means Steve, write your pro-Trump piece; if it is legal, Aberdeen Voice will publish it. By the way, since you object to the Trump coverage here as being bias, how do you feel about 3 days of blanket pro-granite web articles dominating the first pages of the Press & Journal?
If this is what they are referring to then maybe they should re-read and process the information again! http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A309336.pdf
Page 7 Paragraph 2.2
Everyone, whatever their age or ability, can exercise access rights over most land and inland water in Scotland, at any time
of day or night, providing they do so responsibly2. These rights do not extend to all places or to all activities (see paragraphs
2.11 to 2.15). Provided you do so responsibly (see Parts 3 and5 of the Code), you can exercise access rights in places such
as:
…golf courses, but only for crossing them and providing that you do not take access across greens or interfere with any
games of golf;
Thank you Fiona; I will report back when they tell me where they confidently say their quote appears ‘on Page 7’ of the code. You couldn’t make it up; but it seems that they can
I apologise to the moderation team, was a little irked that Seans post which was written hours after mine yet appeared before me, however I understand your reasons now.
Sorry, won’t push for any of my posts to be published in the future.
I have said this before and will say it yet again. Yes Aberdeen city centre lacks green places. Yes the Union Terrace area has some trees plus some grass. Sadly ignored by it’s citizens for many decades, the gardens are in the shadow of buildings all around. In high summer they are lovely but in the rest of the year they are a frost pocket and bereft of not only Aberdonians but sunlight.
Aberdeen has the beachfront, various parks and even a hill or two within the city boundaries. The “gardens”, if that is what they indeed are, have been in decline since Kelly cast his cats all those years ago.
Build over the hollow that is now there, invite developers to invest and build shopping precincts. Then use the capital and planning gain to pedestrianise Union Street and George Street then fill the car free boulevard with trees, public spaces and public transport systems.
Like any park, UTG is well used when their is something on and the sun shines. It’s sheltered, something raising it would have removed Duncan. Show me any park, in any city, that’s got numbers in it when it pouring with rain or snowing.
I agree Duncan that they are not fit for purpose, the majority who voted in the referendum agree, sadly we don’t have the loudest voices, till the opponents can be convinced I sadly see a stalemate for our centre and more decline to follow.
It’s time for both sides to come to a compromise that all will be happy with, it’s clear major change is needed.
Major change George? Now what about the glass and concrete boxes proposed for Broad Street? Perhaps discarding that idea, in favour of a public space, would improve the area? A win, win, situation. Just think: areas of grass and flower beds, shrubbery and trees, with lots of seating. We’re left with our city centre park and a new one at the much neglected east end of Union Street.
Broad street isn’t the City Centre, putting a square there would be a waste of time.
This is a superb article. Well researched and well written. Aberdeen Voice is again reminding us of what happened. We should never forget.
@Tom Newton there are very few smaller properties to move to right across the UK! The bedroom tax was introduced with one thought in mind to undermine the poorest in society. What can possibly be good about forcing people onto the street? This is by far the most nasty policy ever to be thought up and this government knew the consequences before introducing it.
In answer to your other point regarding investing the money from the sale of council homes into building more homes,Maggie Thatcher included a clause that prohibited council from doing this
Since Fred is the moderator of Aberdeen Voice, I understand that his comment is “satire” and not, as it appears, defamation. 😉
Just about Annabel, although I must admit there’s also an indulgent streak of sarcasm in there as well 🙂
Must clear something up tho … I am one of a small number who act as moderator. Moderators always remain anonymous, acting impartially and representative of the team’s ethos, procedures and upholding agreed criteria re. publication.
If I reply to a post as ‘Fred’ … or Fred@Aberdeenvoice, then the comments are mine as an individual, but I am no more entitled to breach guidelines and legal boundaries than any other individual. Having said that, recent team discussions have brought about a review of our criteria for dealing with comments, and the above comment of mine, although not actually defamatory, at least in a legal sense, would not now be published unedited. So tell you what? Next time I’m the Mod, I’m gonna do the right thing and moderate it 🙂 … no point in trying to maintain standards and consistency if I leave something in place which does not set a good example.
Fair enough!
Para 2 – “pore”, not “pour.
Para 4 – sentence needs a complete re-think – unless you actually WERE a giant asparagus spear?
Para 6 – “quiet”, not “quite”.
Can’t be bothered reading the rest.
Thanks Annabel. I hold my hands up and admit that there has been a drop in sub-editing quality this week. the reason for that is because I had a problem with my email that I was not aware of until late last night, meaning that my communications and requests to subeditors had not been sent, and I had to do the vast majority of the subediting, as well as the layouts, the image processing, the editing and the publishing on my own between 10pm and around 5.30am in order to get the articles out.
It’s not a situation I have ever found myself in before, and hope never to repeat 🙂
You are not the only one who has pointed out errors, and to those others I am equally grateful. I will go and make those amendments now…. thanks again.
Hi Fred, I’d be very happy to help with subbing. Let me know if you need a hand.
Annabel – well done on the important task of spotting some typos and grammatical errors.
Now, any thoughts on some of the really important issues in hand?
You pull me up for having posts removed and now have a go at Annabel, how about posting your views instead of wasting peoples time.
Thank you.
George:
So apparently I’m “…wasting people’s time”.
Looking further up this thread, the moderators have had to spend some time addressing your previous postings, so I think you could be regarded as somewhat high-maintenance…
You claim that “…I have a great deal of experience in this law…”. I would suggest that someone with reaaonable knowledge of law would be able to post online without ringing any alarm bells with the moderators?
As for Annabel’s earlier posting – well, as the EE and P&J do not seem to give a balanced coverage of various issues, I welcome the additional information provided by AV. (I suspect you probably don’t though).
AV writers have made available a lot of information for the public to digest, that likely won’t be appearing in the EE/P&J.
And all Annabel can be bothered with is some typos/grammatical issues?
I have a simple solution for all you people so concerned with what the P&J and the EE write, don’t buy the papers!
There, problem solved.
I can’t recall the last time I bought either.
If you think the answer with a biased paper (in your minds) is replacing it with another biased paper then I’m afraid you can hardly sling mud at them. I’m sure I’m not the only sick of the constant anti Trump, Wood, Milne rhetoric, what started as a promising venture has sadly turned into a witch hunt. We have another anti Trump article again today, I’m not going to bother responding, its all been said before, has all became rather tedious and smacks of a personal agenda.
For those of you who have memories longer than a goldfish in a very small bowl, look away now.
George – editor of P&J is married to Trump’s local VP Sarah Malone. The coverage has been bias on this and other issues. Other vantage points not particularly welcome. They have to make a profit. Aberdeen Voice – if it is sane, non-violent, factual we will print it – whatever the point of view. We don’t make money; we rely on donations. We print what comes in. Write an article George if you will, but please spare our readers the tedium of your arguments which have already been countered/explained to you ad nauseum.
I’m well aware who Sarah Malone is married too but I don’t see the relevance. Sorry I don’t buy into a newspaper reporting in a biased manner because one of the workers is married to someone who works at the course.
I hope someone does do some pro articles, it would be nice to get some balance as many people in the area do support it, If I was a journalist I would myself but I don’t believe I’m qualified or skilled enough to write one.
Sadly I’m also not a golfer so I couldn’t even do a course review, with any luck someone else will.
Great stuff, Suzanne! I know how much work you must have put into this. I’ve read every link; it would appear that George Smith and his ilk have not, otherwise they would see the underhand way in which Ian Wood and his cronies have gone about their business. I’m not sure if you’ve brought this up before, but on 18th (I think) January 2009 there was a so-called ‘consultation’ in the Grammar School. As far as I know, only Community Councillors were invited, me included. Tom Smith was ‘directing operations’ and deemed that the citizens of Aberdeen were not to be allowed access. There was a horde outside the school and Smith only relented as long as these people were excluded from the ‘focus groups’. He was wasting his and our time on that basis – the focus groups all asked for feedback on our comments and would you believe, four years on we have heard zilch!
Dear Ruth, many thanks for your comments; I had not been aware of this ‘consultation’ – very interesting. Thanks for bringing it up; am interested in more details on this, and in any similar examples of the City Gardens Project proponents excluding the public from its operations (such as in choosing the web when the public wanted the glass ‘worm’ as it was being called, such as not letting the public vote no to any building in the garden during the shortlist consultation, such as the ACGT holding onto the votes/comments from the consultation and not letting anyone see them, even though the taxpayer paid at least in part for the exercise…,)
I was at school with Matthew Zajac, both Primary and Secondary. He has recently published a book, “The Tailor of Inverness”, his father. I recommend it highly to those who may read this comment.
Just bumped into an ex journalist who worked for Aberdeen Journals before he retired. I am talking here of a man well known for his integrity and work ethic who was employed by the Journals for decades. The poor man was nearly in tears as he bemoaned the lack of integrity and editorial quality in both newspapers.He put this down to a lack of ability in its editorships.
Fine researched piece.
Nae so sure about Sniffin’ Glue being the first fanzine. It was probably the first punk fanzine, its DIY ethos fitting in with the punk mantra of getting up and deeing it for yersel. Until the fashion industry and money men sanitised it, of course.
Oz?
Zigzag?
In a fitba context – Foul?
There was, of course, the famous Plook 69.
A wonderful gesture made in a dignified, ego-free manner. Ian Wood, pay attention, eh?
Got to agree with you Perdo
Well done to the Evening Express for attempting to bring a solution to our Centres decline, as long as all sides agree that compromise is needed then I see no reason why things can’t happen.
http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/3368144
For once I agree with you George. Compromise, not dictatorial, is the way forward.
I’m sure you’d agree that a pleasant plaza, fronting Marishal College, would be an improvement though George. A pile of concrete and glass wouldn’t exactly be pleasing on the eye.
Havenae a clue what your spickin aboot Bob. Janice pointed out my faux pas about last weeks poem.Some crass comment about a sore neck and hope its better. I will ask her to translate this one for me from the Doric.
Do you fancy a Turra Coo collaboration?
Duncan min, Yer gyaan tae hae tae brush up on yer doric,
iss poem wis aboot the story fit wis in aa the papers[,no nae the P&J or the EE] aboot a fish fae hid a likin fer chiels balls. Turns oot it wisna true. Turra coo collaboration? Am nae wi ye>
I’ve just watched this video (weblink below). The Trumps have destroyed even more peoples lives by robbing them of large amounts of money, in many cases their life savings or even the life savings of their entire family.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/25/n-y-attorney-general-suing-trumps-school-for-fraud/?hpt=hp_t2
Excellent work again. Never ceases to amaze me the sleaze this horrendously coiffured buffoon has created amongst our elected, unelected and police force. Hope something does happen with an enquiry, I feel it won’t as some rather big names will find themselves in court!
Many thanks Suzanne, a good evening with great company was had last Monday.
Since ACF wrote this, the Council have reviewed the idea of charging to enter the Pedal for Scotland event: it will now be FREE to enter.
Thanks Gavin. Derek e-mailed to that effect the day we went to press, or in our case “went to press the button”, just too late for inclusion. I’ll try to remember to get a reminder in next week’s issue since the event’s on the 15th.
Not sure what place a pub quiz has on the Voice digipaper, but why not I suppose.
I for one don’t see any issues with this being here – AV prints articles and event details for anything that is of interest to our area, and this counts as far as I’m concerned. I have seen a few AV pieces now and then that make me wonder who’d be interested, but there you go
I am of Scottish ancestry, Sir William Sinclair and the Murray’s of Dunkeld, the Stewarts and Bruce’s, and it sickens me to know the Scots have sunk so low that they would let a man like Donald Trump come in and destroy the land our ancestor fought so hard for money. All of us born here in these Americas are not for the almighty dollar and the Trumps of this world.
Scotland Forever…..Freedom
Brilliant riposte! You’ve made me laugh out loud this morning.
Some slight anomalies appeared in the latest, much vaunted, upgrade of Union Street and The Denburn Valley. A significant number of 20 foot plus trees were seen to sprout from the new concreted areas over The Denburn and on Union Street itself. John Halliday obviously has a scant knowledge of horticulture. No sight of the necessary venting for the enlarged underground area (road and rail) either. Vehicular traffic seems to have evaporated, where to no one knows. Potentially on to the already near gridlocked Guild Street area or on to a newly created gridlock in Union Terrace and Schoolhill, exacerbated by the pedestrianisation of Broad Street apparently..
Perhaps many millions could have been, potentially, saved by installing escalators from Guild Street to The Trinity Centre to enhance “connectivity”. The covering of the Denburn rail and road to create a green space would, of course, be welcome and the restoration of The Gardens (toilets included) to their former glory would also, but “raising” them? Wouldn’t this destroy the shelter afforded at present?
Seems a good choice I’d say.
The book may be a load of nonsense, but calling somebody a ‘smug looking cock’ then criticising them for ‘shotgun mudslinging of the lowest order’? Pot, meet kettle. I suspect this review is primarily motivated by the reviewer’s attachment to the SNP and their seemingly obligatory intolerance to any criticism of them. Perhaps he’d rather burn any books that put the SNP in a bad light? The irony.
I suspect the reviewer is primarily motivated by the author’s: 1. revisionist nonsense, 2. misunderstanding of irony, 3. ultra oversimplification, and 4. ignorance of historical fact. The book’s author is putting one and one together to get 500. Pot meet kettle, and reviewer meet illogical, sensationalist, author untroubled by fact, imo
Yes, I’m all for having the Scots Pine as our national tree. No other tree matches up to it for its tenacity, beauty, usefulness to other species and sheer stubbornness in surviving throughout the centuries! We have our equally stubborn Thistle as our national flower emblem, so let’s go for the Scots Pine!
Oliver– Yer spot on min.
Aye Bob. Have to agree with you.
Aberdeen city seems to be having an ugly building competition just now, not sure who with tho`
“Carrot Top Kev”
Could you please clarify what you mean by this?
Thanks.
You are right to bristle at such blatant gingerism George. Strawberry bald would be a much more acceptable and accurate description of the esteemed member. Nevertheless this is yet another extremely informative and entertaining article which raises some serious issues don’t you think?
I think she means ginger hair, George.
Are you going to pretend to be offended by this? Pick yer battles min, some of the points you make are pretty decent.
Thank you for continuing to provide an informative and unbiased alternative to the insulting nonsense consistently peddled by Aberdeen Journals Ltd. The methodology used by the committee to establish whether an inquiry was warranted, that is to ask those who may potentially face criticism and condemnation as a result of any inquiry to state whether an inquiry would serve any purpose, is completely consistent with my own experience in which democratically elected representatives and the bodies, often quasi – judicial, set up to investigate any perceived misconduct by such representatives appear, in my opinion, to conspire to ensure that no one is ever held to account, thereby making a mockery of our claim to be a free and open democracy. It appears that the more evident and obvious the perceived wrong – doing the less chance there is of any inquiry or action.
I was one of the 19,000 citizens who signed the petition you refer to and whilst I fully anticipated and expected a negative response from the committee, it is so disappointing, particularly for the long – suffering residents of Menie and those of us who would like to have heard the testimony of those directly involved.
“Thank you for continuing to provide an informative and unbiased alternative”
lol, I presume your tongue was firmly in your cheek when writing this?
Dear Bruce
You’ve summed the situation up perfectly.
There are about 19,500 people out there who wanted a just and fair response to the petition request; hopefully they will get in touch with their elected representatives to express their disappointment, to reaffirm they want a public inquiry, and to express how they feel about how the Petitions Committee proceeded.
Just to let you know – and to let those in power know – this is far from the end of the road. There is scope elsewhere in government for calling for investigations. This sadly predictable outcome is not the end of the line for me and others who are investigating what has happened, and what is still is going on.
Watch this space.
There are 45,301 people still waiting for the garden they voted for to be built, that is 45.301 real people as opposed to this petition where I’ve read people urging others to sign multiple times.
That’s quite a concept you have come up with George. Those you agree with are “real” whilst those you disagree with are not. Such sentiments are surely guaranteed to win friends and influence people.
Of course those who voted for the Granite Web were not repeatedly urged to do so at all. Indeed apart from the gentle persuasion, information management, incessant propaganda and scaremongering of the Scottish Government, the City Council administration, the assortment of extremely expensive unelected incestous influential quangos and self interested businessmen, not to mention our beloved, but thankfully incompetent local press, there was barely a hint of encouragement. Hardly surprising, therefore, that they could only muster the approval of around 20% of those entitled to vote. Perhaps they will have to do a little more urging next time.
Beaten to a pulp by the new University Library building I think. Mind you, the London Shard looks fine. Then there’s that Glasgow Art School building designed by what’s his name – big tall backed seats with lots of legroom and a white raincoat, Wilson or someone?
Plus that there’s that nice green topped retro-gasometer in Garthdee. Oh and the Forth Road Bridge.
Especially the Forth Road Bridge.
Sorry what was the question?
If the music shows held in the quadrangle of Marischal College were paid for using public funds, why did the council keep quiet about this. Was it so the council staff could enjoy these events for themselves.
Thank’s Suzanne, try as I might I am have problems sharing this. Too painful perhaps, I don’t really know.
As ever Suzanne – very informative, but painful to come to terms with that people will behave in this way towards animals.
I’m sure Dave is a great drummer, pretty sure I have seen him with both Fish and Midge, but also pretty sure he never played with Marillion.
He plays with local ceilidhmeisters Shindig though, a sort of Fishless Marillion playing reels and Boston Two Steps. Nothing like Marillion at all, in fact.
And no, he isna me! Get well soon Dave.
I would suggest it is divise only in your head, the rest of us take it or leave it.
BTW The survey isn’t funny.
I have to say your suggestion is unfounded George. I can confirm that I also find it to be, amongst other things, extremely divisive. When you refer to the “rest of us” who are you speaking for exactly?
Well, people are certainly replying, and some of the comments, well, let’s say they are a tad critical of the EE. One person even thinks they just print press releases instead of pounding the pavement looking for ground-breaking stories. George, this is a (satirical) poll, and it is not intended to be funny, just like the ‘mend our broken hearts’ campaign is not at all cynical or satirical. A collection of the (printable) results will be forthcoming. However, I think it would take more than a £90 million TIF loan to fix the EE.
Bruce,
US refers to everyone outside the anti everything brigade that flourishes in Aberdeen, now i don’t know you but I would bet good money you know Suzanne in person and campaign on the same issues as her. Please forgive me If I’m wrong but I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet.
I’m terribly sorry George, but you are wrong, possibly not for the first time.
Thankyou for writting this article. As you know, my passion is animals and in the last few weeks I have picked up two stray dogs, one with a collar and tag who was returned to his owner the other without who I took to the police. I have also thwarted a potential break in at a clients home while returning dogs after their walk.
Its important that people know who to contact and are aware that these crimes are ongoing, tragically.
thanks! There will sometime soon be an article on what to do with found / stray dogs and cats. (Elaine – keep up the great work you do!)
I know nothing of the broken heart campaign, I don’t buy the local papers, may I suggest you do likewise if you don’t like the content.
I hadn’t appreciated there was ANY topic you know nothing of, George. However, when there are only two local papers owned by one entity, and the papers are persistently lobbying to ruin our only city centre free green space (instead of say reporting the actual news), it is important to read their contents to know what they are saying, don’t you think? You might love the local papers George; they certainly hold and actively push viewpoints close to your own. PS – I never recommended buying the things, did I?
They certainly speak for the majority if they support the CGP, don’t you recall the referendum result.
You read the paper with a biased viewpoint, I recall buying it in the run up to the vote on the gardens and the coverage was 50/50, both sides given even coverage
And yeah I know a lot about most things, free thinkers often do.
George,
It seems a little hypocritical to suggest not reading something, or responding to it, if you don’t like the content, whilst reading and frequently responding negatively to articles which you clearly don’t like.
Incidentally, I have never, as you suggest, met or campaigned on issues wih Ms Kelly. It occurs to me, however, that the focus of your energy should be the serious issues raised, which are worthy of healthy debate and respectful disagreement, rather than seeking to personally disparage or discredit those inividuals who do not share your views.
Agree with everything you say Bruce.
George, If you read this I have never met Bruce!!! but I did work for the EE when it was a respected paper. Something sadly it cannot be classed as now. As you rightly say tho we can take the EE or leave it. The plummeting circulation would suggest people are leaving it.
I live in New Zealand but I’m of Scottish descent. Tonight I watched the documentary “You’ve been trumped”. I was shocked and disappointed to witness such shameful mistreatment of local people in support of a man with such low character as Trump. He is so obviously a liar and a charlatan and I can’t believe politicians and police can be so easily bought in good old Scotland. It doesn’t line up with what I’ve always believed about the true blue Scot. However, the Forbes family, their neighbours and supporters gave me some comfort there are still a few canny Scottish folk left.
Nicely written bit of local history.
No mention of the ongoing solar panels saga at 65 Crovie and not visible in this photo as it stops short of 65. Said solar panels are not readily visible which is why I hope to keep them despite Council Planners disapproval.
I’d heard the spies arrived with folding bicycles which was bound to get them noticed but it happened before my time. I’m sure Mr Reid didn’t have a telephone so must have dialed 999 from the village phone box, also not included in this photo.
The memorial to the Vigilant is known by Crovie folk as the Dalek, a fitting nickname for it!
Thanks Flora and good luck with the solar panels. There are indeed conflicting accounts of the bicycles saga. I suspect the dropping into the sea one is correct since it derives from several older versions of the tale. An extended version of this article is likely to appear in the Leopard Magazine in the near future and will include an image of the phone box plus a classic view from the path past the Dalek on the Rotten Shore.
As ever, Suzanne, an excellent piece. As David Milne says, it is indeed a sad day for the governance of Scotland if this is what their citizens can expect. I shall be writing to my MP and MSP and referring them to this article.,
George,
Your comment about both sides getting equal coverage during the CGP debate is way off the mark,
The column inches given over to Sir Ian Wood, Acsef and the City Gardens Trust was way in advance of that given to the likes of FOUTG. something like 75% to 25%.
The Evening Express has indeed a falling circulation, but it’s on a par with other local and national newspapers, in this digital age of online news and 24 hour a day news channels. I do buy the Evening Express it’s delivered to my house every day, it has the best coverage of local sport, announcement’s, classifieds, what’s on, reviews and daily columns by local journalists, politicians, and celebrities who usually have opposing views on local issues. As I recall Frank Gilfeather was against the CGP as was local councillor John Reynolds who voted against it in council chambers, but Scott Begbie was for it or the other way round who remembers who cares. It is what it is a local tabloid newspaper that provides a wealth of local information for local people. Start from the back page and work to the front.
As pointed out it shares the same owner and editorial chief as the P&J which also has a falling circulation but is far out performing every other local newspaper in Scotland now that is interesting!!!
Name of title, total circulation, percentage change year-on-year
Dailies
Aberdeen – Evening Express : 43,067 ; -10.0%
Aberdeen – Press & Journal : 68,659 ; -3.4%
Dundee Courier & Advertiser : 56,243 ; -9.3%
Dundee Evening Telegraph : 22,496 ; -4.8%
Edinburgh – Evening News : 35,611 ; -10.9%
Glasgow – Evening Times : 45,942 ; -12.3%
Greenock Telegraph : 13,470 ; -6.1%
Paisley Daily Express : 6,887 ; -8.6%
Jim,
Just so that there is no misunderstanding on my part, could you please comfirm you are actually suggesting that the coverage of the Granite Web/UTG redevelopment propsals, by the Evening Express and Press & Journal, was unbiased, neutral, and did not seek to influence the debate in any way whatsoever.
Please accept my apologies if I have misinterpreted your comments.
Thanks
A liitle over 500 bothered to take part in the survey in the”EE’s” much vaunted “Mend our broken heart “campaign. That perhaps gives an indication of the public’s view of the paper. The views of only
500 will carry very little weight in the greater scheme of things. A complete waste of time and effort although I myself did take the trouble to participate.
A good in depth piece Suzanne! Well researched. I feel sorry for the residents of the Menie Estate but wonder if you could please summarise the points in a shortened form for folk like myself who just need an easy read of the salient issues.
Hello Duncan. When you want me to ‘summarise the points in a shortened form’ – I think this piece gives background on the particular matter at hand then analysis of the redacted text, text which had been in the public domain for years. It’s a short article, and I think it does what it sets out to do. If you want the points of the entire Menie Estate situation summarised in short form, well here goes. Rich man with apparent links to organised crime wines and dines Scottish First Ministers and Scottish Enterprise head while seeking planning permission. Permission turned down at local level by elected reps sticking to the law. Plans called in and approved. Residents lives made miserable by intrusive and abusive security and police, and giant bunds built blocking one resident’s former view of sea and causing property damage as sand/earth blows into her home and automobile engines and gardens. Environmental protection of the highest kind is swept aside. Environmental group set up to oversee development is both feeble and controlled by developer; refuses to answer questions, then disappears. Local newspaper wages aggressive campaign against anyone who would stand in the way of development, calling councillors ‘neeps’, declaring the opposition would be disregarded, all the while neglecting to tell readership editor’s wife is wed to developer’s VP. Part of course built very close to sea and falls into it. Planning approval is disregarded, marks overstepped, and many retrospective planning applications are required as developer builds as it pleases. Right of access laws are routinely disregarded. Police make many visits to one local resident in particular, arrest two journalists on say so of developer’s agent, causing outcry. Exceptional documentary made by these journalists wins awards around world. Residents continue to fight on with dignity. 19,400 people ask Scottish Government to have a full public inquiry into what has happened and is happening here. Committee decides to asks agencies in the firing line if they want to be investigated, and not surprisingly, none of these agencies want to be looked into. Relevant committee therefore decides the public won’t get an inquiry, and won’t be allowed to read the statement the campaigner has submitted, even though all material was already in public domain. BBC programme sets out story so far, linking developer with organised crime. Developer told public the government promised he’d get his way; developer falls out with government when they plan to allow an offshore wind farm; developer takes government to court. Second course planned. Hundreds of houses will destroy the environmental value of the formerly protected area. Despite overwhelming odds and a system interested in money over environment, residents and activists fight on.
Will this do? 🙂
Duncan,
It’s people moaning for the sake of moaning, no one was forced out of their homes and a beautiful golf course was built where scrubland once stood. If this were not Donald Trump building it you wouldn’t have even heard of it unless you were a golfer.
Links to organised crime, deary me, how low can one stoop.
Hello George – glad to see you’re not generalising, altering the facts, or trying to deflect attention from the salient points. For the rest of you, people living in the area have the threat of compulsory purchases hanging over their homes (even though such powers are meant to be for public projects); for ‘scrubland’ read valuable, unique, formerly SSSI protected habitat. If you care about people, the environment, pollution, urban sprawl, due process of law – you would have heard about what is going on here. For the links to organised crime, well – the BBC, other media, American prosecutors and a host of investigative reporters seem to think there is something to this. Watch the Panorama programme ‘the trouble with trump’ for a little clue about this. Watch ‘you’ve been trumped’ for a very accurate, and tragic picture of the truth. ‘How low can one stoop?’ is a question best asked of Trump and his minions.
Oh George you really are a one. Your talk of people moaning must be the most spectacular pre – emptive strike against a kettle since the birth of pots.
As for the beautiful golf course, it seems that not too many people agree with you. There is , as usual, hardly a soul booked to play the course all week and there are a number of cut – price deals being offered during October. What happened to all the overseas visitors who were going to arrive in their droves via the new direct flights and the thousands of jobs this would create. There are more golfers playing at Hazlehead in one hour than playing the Trump course in an entire day. Just as well he cancelled the classy houses and holiday homes eh?
CPO’S are actually being enforced in the City right now in Tillydrone, not the threat of one, do you write about that?
Urban sprawl is happening all round our City, Kingswells nearly joins Bucksburn these days, do you write about that?
Our City roads are choked and pollution rife due to us not having a bypass, your care factor?
Plans for 650 foot wind turbines that will scar our coastline forever and damage marine and bird life are afoot, not a peep.
This golf course is a non story, if anything the care being taken on the property will enhance the dunes and increase wildlife.
Dear George, In order of your comments: 1. just met with councillors about this issue today, Tillydrone and AWPR CPOs. Will write more about them shortly. 2. I’ve several pieces about urban sprawl. 3. The bypass is not necessarily the cure for all our road problems; better regional public transport is what I’ve been re commending. Our air pollution on 3 roads ranks in the top 10 most polluted roads in Scotland. 4. I believe wind farm technology must improve, and that it will – like every other technological advancement man has made. But the damage to the environment from wind farms seems to me to be far less (it still exists) than the current oil spill issues blighting the seas and the small matter of the nuclear leak in Japan. 5. The issues of the golf course involve the bending of laws to suit the rich and powerful, contempt for people and environment, and the rule of law; I rather think these twee matters count. Finally George – I’m sure this will start to sink in eventually – if an issue bothers you – just write your article and submit it for publication, won’t you? We’re waiting. But my choice of subject matter is just that – my choice. Cheerio!
I’m not concerned with oil spills or nuclear issues in Japan, the people in those areas can worry about them, my issue is with these things ruining the coastline where I live. I may well write an article on it, thanks for the offer.
Btw Anyone who suggests we don’t need a bypass simply doesn’t have to live with the congestion on a daily basis, try working in Dyce and living South of the City or vice versa, even with improved public transport lorries going from the North or to the South have no option but to go through the centre of our City. We have congested roads because we have too many choke points and vehicles trying to use them. In this instance CPO’S are worthwhile for the greater good imo, you won’t find many people disagreeing with me on this one.
George. Dunes don’t need enhancing. They are a natural phenomenon best left alone not manicured by planting things like marram grass.
City roads choked and polluted. Very True. Shall the bypass help? Perhaps temporarily but due to expected increase in car usage over the next 20 years{ unless we come to our senses that is and cross city affordable public transport is put at the top of the agenda} the AWPR shall become unfit for purpose.
As a Keith loon, we travelled that road a lot and my dad had us convinced that the 40 ft black and white wooden sign declaring “Maggieknockater Apiary” in the park to the west of the road as you entered the village from the north meant that monkeys and apes roamed the woods nearby.
I told my 23 year old daughter this as we passed it by 3 weeks ago. She laughed at our naivete.
You mention Ironside, not a very common name in the NE, but for years the proprietors of the Craigellachie shop and single pump petrol station in Craigellechie also had that name.
God’s own country.
Bang on the nail, Suzanne – could sub-title it The Use & Abuse Of Statistics. In my experience, provincial journalists quite genuinely can’t make head or tail of anything in statistical form – their critical faculties simply desert them as soon as they’re confronted by a percentage sign – see their annual reports of school exams results!
There may indeed be monkeys and apes in some NE woodlands Dave but not of the hairy kind. Mind you the Lewis Grassic Gibbon Centre reports that occasional tourists turn up laden with bags of bananas.
On the same vein Duncan —-maybe golfers who turn up at the “Trump” course expect to be greeted by an old fart or perhaps enjoy passing wind a lot.
Enjoyed your article.
Cheers Bob. Enjoy your Doric poems. Oh, and thank you for the “mum” piece. Much appreciated.
Nice one, Suzanne! The Marcliffe has a “partner stays free” offer on its website. Maybe Trumpy and co each brought a friend? Lol!
I heard george and donald shared the same bed, giving each other a sooky 🙂
And here’s me thinking that all the hotel rooms in Aberdeen were booked up by oil workers in
in transit. It was the Trump effect all along. I was wrong all along.
By the way, do you think Mr Spence and the fChamber have been listening too much to that fine
De la Soul anthem “93 is a magic number” ;- )
Who cares how many people play at the course, why is it of interest to anyone!?
Paul Lawrie has a new golf venture just out of town, are you snooping about his bookings?
I simply can’t fathom out your obsession with the Trump course and the local papers, surely you could use your time in a more constructive manner, do something positive instead of deriding others.
George— Could be something to do with the fact Paul Lawrie is not making questionable claims
Could be something to do with the fact that Trump and the local papers have published survey figures which needed scrutininising.
Could be something to do with the fact that Trump derides anyone or any organisation who disagrees with him.
Could be something to do with….Och George I could give other instances but you wouldn’t believe them anyway so I’ll not bother.
As an ex newspaper employee what I will say is that citizen journalism like that of the Aberdeen Voice and other independent news and information sources are more likely to get nearer to the truth than those media sources who are heavily dependent on advertising revenue.
I should point out there are another 8 articles and a poem in this weeks AV which have absolutely nothing to do with Trump or the local papers and could be described as positive and constructive
Bob,
As long as this vindictive agenda against the same people continues I’ll continue questioning the motives, there must come a point when the harassment stops, he’s built a course, get over it! You don’t like the local papers, don’t buy them…and get over it!
The attacks against Trump, Wood, Milne have an agenda behind them imo, every word written on them here is negative, not one positive on the employment and wealth they’ve brought to the area.
The reason no other courses are ever mentioned here is because no one is picking holes in them looking for fault.
There is an awful lot of people in the area with problems way worse than having a small mound built outside their homes, it is so trivial when you step back and look at it logically.
I’d also like to mention that I’ve stayed at the Marcliffe on several occasions and had direct dealings with Mr Spence, I’ve always believed him to be a man of the utmost integrity who goes beyond the call of duty to assist his customers, a true credit to our City, unlike the writer here I have no reason to dispute his claim of the course helping business, unless proof exists to contradict that I believe he’s above recourse.
A nonsense article.
I am amused that the conclusion George reaches is that I have an agenda, but that the Evening Express doesnt. Hmm. I do have an agenda as it happens – and that is not to let untruths published go unquestioned, not to stand by while the rights of people with little money are sacrificed for the whims of the powerful, and to ensure that our common good park UTG stays just that. I like my agenda more than their agenda. Hope this helps.
As to the mound of earth walling the Leyton Cottage inhabitants in, that’s a very callous outlook you have – do come and see the thing for yourself. It is unacceptable.
My parents used to have a view of a green field, it’s now a view of a big school, I don’t recall them once whining about it, if it bothered them that much they could move.
In my opinion you’re wasting your time and appear to have lost focus, you’re too blinkered. Open your eyes, do you really think people living in cramped overcrowded housing care that someone’s view from their window has changed?
Suzanne,
I am beginning to despair over George’s logic. He seems to see bogey men and women
hiding behind every dyke just to have a go at Mr Trump and his ilk.One thing though which certainly comes across from George is that economic prosperity is far more important than the lives of the people who have to suffer because of this rush toward economic prosperity.
A mound of earth round a person’s home seems small beer to him. I just wonder how he would react however if his next door neighbour was to block his view with a surrounding mound of earth.I suspect he would be upset and be straight on to his lawyer. If he can afford to stay at the Marcliffe on several occasions I should think he could afford the one of the best..
Thanks once again for providing your readers with an antidote to the extremely inane and tiresome pro – Trump wealth – worshipping nonsense we are forced to endure on a regular basis. Those who choose to forget or overlook that the Trump development was sold to us by the Scottish Government, amongst others, as being worthy of what, in my opinion, amounted to a corruption of democracy due to the promised “national importance” of the golf course at Menie are now clutching at straws comprised of 93% manure and 7% hot air.
The dunes at Menie, as I’m sure you know, were of a scientific value unmatched anywhere in the UK and yet, despite receiving the highest level of protection possible, were destroyed to satisfy the demands of a wealthy pseudo – celebrity with a penchant for extreme vulgarity. That our national leaders chose, in my opinion, to aid Trump in achieving his dubious ambitions at Menie by taking the unprecedented step of “calling in” the application and ignoring the protected sttus of the site, not to mention the rights of the local people, surely places a demand on all concerned to ensure that such action can be in any way justified. One suspects that those who once described the development to be of “national importance” are now more than a little red – faced.
Great survey by the way. I tried several times to participate but was unable, despite the various options available, to find a way to effectively articulate my level of contempt for the Evening Express.
Dear Bruce – George (or someone) inferred that you and I know eachother. We don’t. Having said that, reading your comments, I’d be happy to buy you a BrewDog one of these days. All the best, suzanne
George -Your probably right that people living in cramped overcrowded housing don’t care that someone’s view has changed just the same as Mr Trump most likely couldn’t care about people living in cramped overcrowded housing. Just because your parents weren’t bothered about their view that doesn’t mean that others don’t have the right to object if they feel theirs is, especially when they are being hassled by the person whose actions are spoiling that view. Suzanne thought you were portraying a callous attitude. She could have added unfeeling, uncaring,” I’m all right jack” attitude. However that is an attitude which has become more and more prevalent in Aberdeen, and I’m sorry to say this, but it really only became this since the discovery of oil.I’m old enough to remember a much more caring society in this city.
Bob I care about real issues, I have no time for witch hunts. Champagne socialist against the rich man was my first thought, this isn’t about sites of special interest nor the local people in my opinion.
A new Maggie centre opened in Aberdeen this week, local business contributed big style, how refreshing an article on that would have been instead of another on Mr Trump.
We have a chronic housing shortage in Aberdeen, that is far more pressing than someone’s seaside detached having its view changed, tens of thousands of people in town would kill for that property.
[ Potentially defamatory elements removed – Moderator ]
And for the record Bob, I’m far from well off, I’ve been cursing the end of the Month being on Monday because I’m almost out of money, I don’t own property and have to privately rent. I work full time and have always done so, any luxuries I’ve ever had have been grafted for.
I hold no grudge about anyone that has done better in life than me though, nor do I look down on those who have not, everyone is equal in my eyes.
Egality is a noble sentiment George, now if we could only get the Scottish Government, Aberdeenshire Council, Police Scotland, Aberdeen Journals Ltd, ACSEF, ALL elected representatives, and others, to agree with you, we might just be on to something.
George, as the subject of this thread is to do with lies, I’m sorry, but I cant let this one go.
“everyone is equal in my eyes”
I’m a football fan like yourself George, a Dons fan at that, and so it should not surprise you that I regularly read, and occasionally post on football forums.
From what I have read of your posts on one particular forum over the last few months, I would have to say the above is a blatant lie … unless of course we are not to include Arabs, Muslims, Women, or anyone with a shade of skin significantly deeper than white.
Sorry, but you dont turn these prejudices off, nor brush them under the carpet simply by logging out of one site and going onto another.
If you take those comments on the other site seriously and missed the tongue in cheek irony than that is your issue Fred, it’s a parody, not real life.
“Tongue in cheek” “irony” “parody” I can’t say that any of these would be readily identifiable as characteristic of your normal style George. Could it be thou doth protest too much?
[ Potentially defamatory post removed – Moderator ]
Twenty years ago I would have felt safer being out and about in Aberdeen at night than I do now, and more than once I’ve experienced the distraction ploy from a robber at an ATM.
Quote, unquote – “everyone is equal in my eyes”, I’ll need to remember this one. (LOL)
Don’t take on these Lefties George , you will never win against their holier than thou attitudes , ABERDEEN VOICE !!!!! Don’t make me laugh , Please change the name to ABERDEEN WHINGE , that would suit you lot better .
I am always reduced to giggling like a schoolgirl when someone responds to a well – reasoned, extremely detailed and properly documented argument by having absolutely nothing to say other than to moan about people moaning. The “irony” referred to by George must be contagious. It’s even better when I am transported back to 1983 by reference to “lefties”.
Corporate bookings are not made online so they don’t register.
The course has been a great success bringing in loads of money
for Trump and the area. That obviously upsets some people but hey ho.
In George’s defence, I recognise that his posts on said football chat site are
not meant to be taken seriously.
How much has it brought in and how successful has it been?
Corporate booking do close off tee slots so its easy to see what available tee slots are left. Usually more on one course than St Andrew’s has on the five online bookable.
Recommendation: go play Cruden Bay. Better (consistently high in world ranking), cheaper and more ethical.
On the subject of witch hunts George. How about the witch hunt conducted against Martin Ford by certain individuals and organisations through the local press. I happen to be someone who has chaired a couple of committees and his decision to vote for the status quo is the norm when a vote is tied. The fact he voted against the Trump application AS IT STOOD in the original vote becomes somewhat irrelevant when voting for the status quo.It might be of interest to you to know that a North east born reporter for a newspaper from outwith this area who attended the council meeting where Martin Ford was dismissed described the whole affair as “a witch hunt against a decent man” Who was one of the leading figures behind the witch hunt? I’ll give you three guesses.
How very well said.
Aaah … tongue in cheek. That explains it then. That’s why I’m never sure when to take you seriously George. I’ve been trying too hard to make sense of you. For example. You told us on here you were not a supporter of EDL, and that the facebook ‘like’ was a long time ago .. or something to that effect.
Yet, as recently as July, you were Singing the praises of that same organisation and its thug leader. Hmm … so you were only kidding, Ok I get it now …. it was pretty convincing tho … your use of the word ‘darkies’ was the punchline for me …. yup, I had you down as a racist. Silly me. I almost feel as if I owe you an apology.
Well, you’ve given me considerable food for thought George. You see, I was under the impression that in a reasonably developed and civilised society, there were certain things that were never funny, no matter where they were written, and regardless of the number of ‘lol’s and smiley tagged on at the end.
For example, even if you could convince me that it was Ok to use facebook to “perv at birds I know”, I don’t think you would ever convince me to post it in an open public forum, next to a picture of myself on my avatar, and with personal details available. But what do I know?
Maybe I’ve been wrong about you all along. But hey, now I know it’s all ‘tongue in cheek’, maybe now I can go have a second look at your ( previously regarded as disturbing ) thread about the mother of Stephen Lawrence, and your latest offering on the shopping mall massacre in Kenya, which I found particularly distasteful.
Maybe this time round I will realise you are not sick, but you are, in actual fact, f**king hilarious.
Yeah Fred, all tongue in cheek, I am Hilarious.
You certainly like digging into my background, I wonder if everyone here gets the same attention or just those you disagree with.
The things you’ve quoted me as saying without the context involved are worthless, anyone reading that doesn’t get the parody behind the full text is looking to be offended.
What’s hilarious George is that you still think it has been necessary to ‘dig’ this info up. Truth is I found many of many of your posts on said forum ( in the context they occurred ) extremely offensive before I knew who you really were.
I did have an idea it might have been you, but when YOU posted that picture of yourself with the wax model of the queen, and confirmed it was you in discussion, that’s when I knew you were responsible…. not before. No need to dig, you presented yourself – very clearly – with no effort, encouragement or invitation whatsoever on my behalf.
As I said, I am a football fan. I read football forums. Many people do. Not all posters reveal their identity as readily and as obviously though, so don’t give me this ‘digging up’ nonsense.
As for your comments, and their contextual frame, yes, readers can decide for themselves if they really want to go there…. I would hardly recommend it though.
However, I just felt that a little context was perhaps required to provide a framework for your regular challenges regarding basis, values and motives underpinning the work of Aberdeen Voice contributors, by shining a wee light on the basis, values and motives underpinning your own contributions here and elsewhere.
After all, you did mention something about equality somewhere didn’t you?
Fred,
I’m coming round to the idea that George likes to post on certain sites because he maybe gets some perverse pleasure from winding people up. If we all ignored his posts maybe he would disappear in a puff of smoke. By all means though let him rant on as he has a right to his opinion however mind boggingly insensitive and uncaring he comes across at times.But of course if he is a Trumpie “disciple” then he has a good teacher. I find the posts by people describing those who protest, through whatever medium, to be lefties or whingers to be particularily humourous. If people didn’t protest from time to time and bring things to the public view then we would all be controlled by the very people George seems to admire.As William C. Faulkner the American Nobel prize winner once said “never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice, lying and greed. If people all over the world did this, it would change the earth”
[Post removed. Aberdeen Voice will not tolerate the promotion or endorsement of organisations, or members of organisations characterised by discrimination on the grounds of race, religion, or nationality. Nor will we serve as a vehicle for peddling comments consistent with their doctrine – Moderator]
It’s one of the best courses I’ve played. You can use my eyewitness account that the course was very busy when I played it. It’s great to have such a course in the area (along with the others). Why are you bothered? The Marcliffe may well be 93% up, that may well be a fact. Just because they don’t have many rooms doesn’t change that. It’s a sound bite. It makes it easier to write and read that we’re 7 rooms in every week up on bookings from the last year or something like that. Live and let live…
Jason,
I like your sentiment live and let live. Unfortunately that’s precisely what Mr Trump is not doing through his continual harassment of the Milne, Munro and Forbes families.. Why are folk bothered? Well although the pro Trump lot would like others to think that those opposed to Trump are opposed to him simply because he built a golf course it goes much much deeper than this. The building of part of the golf course on a legally protected SSSI might have been the catalyst to all the furore but the process by which the planning process was circumvented through the intervention of John Swinney and his mates and subsequent events surrounding this such as SIX retrospective planning applications which even the Aberdeenshire Council are beginning to baulk at are only some of the things at the heart of the protest.David Milne acknowledges the golf course is now built but his 19000+
petition for a public inquiry is to stop others suffering the same fate as himself and the other Menie families at the hands of people like Trump and “faulty” planning processes.Please don’t hide behind the convenient smokescreen of a golf course when attacking the protesters views.
There is a slight problem with your logic Jason. Reviews of the Marcliffe reveal complaints about the high number of “golfers and weddings” during weekend stays throughout 2012. Even more intriguing, however, is that one of Mr Spence’s main marketing tools, that is his official website, continues to wax lyrical about the opportunities to play “magnificent” golf courses throughout the area, namely and specifically Royal Aberdeen, Murcar and Cruden Bay, but not Trump. It is not unreasonable, therefore, to conclude that Mr Spence considers these courses to be much more of an attraction than those he does not consider significant enough to mention, such as Trump No 1 and Hazelhead No 2 for example. One might even conclude that Mr Spence does not wish the reputation of his hotel to be tarnished by the Trump brand. Either way, Mr Spence is sending out very mixed signals.
Incidentally, when did you play the Trump course Jason and why are you bothered?
The high number of golfers backs Mr Spence’s quotes, thanks Bruce. I assume you’re planning on a night there soon if you’ve been trawling the reviews, I can recommend it, comfiest bed I ever slept on.
Bit weird people would complain of golfers and weddings, not something that has ever offended me.
Tommy.
You possibly are correct in saying that corporate bookings are not done online. However the times booked by such would still have to be taken off the system. This still left a lot of times not taken up over the season.A survey has shown that golf has become less popular in America where it’s popularity has dropped by 13% since 2000. Now of course golf has become more popular in India and China but if their economic bubble bursts as some economists have predicted then that market falls by the wayside. Let’s wait and see how successful Trump’s course has become after a few years.At the moment it would appear he is reliant to a large extent on corporate bookings from his “pals” .If he doesn’t succeed in stopping the offshore windfarm what then? The business cannot survive on golf bookings alone and he says he shall not continue with the rest of the development if he loses the fight over the offshore windfarm,or is this just another bit of Trump bluster. I have no problem with the golf course other than where part of it was built, and the “faulty” process which allowed it to be built and of course the building of the bunds round people’s homes.
Don’t get me wrong, I sympathise with those who’s property is close by and did not accept an offer to move.
It’s happening with WPR and new Don crossing.
I just feel that people are against Trump just for the sake of it..
There are far more important things going on, like Aberdeen’s trip to Paisley.
Sorry to disappoint you Tommy but people are not against Trump just for the sake of it. It could have been anyone. The response against what has been happening at Menie would have been the same.
Bob,
Why are you and others so concerned with how busy it is? I just can’t get my head round it, are you also following the well being of all the other courses in the area?
An interesting hobby no doubt but not for me, I’ll stick to speaking crap on bulletin boards.
Not going to argue but must say Trumps gold course must be one of the biggest tourist attractions in the whole of Scotland
Well done Donald
Doesn’t say much for the rest of Scotland’s history or heritage then does it? Perhaps you should consider reviewing some facts.
Nowhere near one of the top tourist attractions William. Doubt if it is in the top 100. Edinburgh Castle has around twice as many people going through its doors in one day that a fully booked up Trump’s course has for a month. No I didn’t specifically troll through the internet for information on Edinburgh Castle.
I read this in one of the newspapers lately. Depends who you class as tourists. Corporate bookings on golf courses are not necessarily tourists.Top tourist attraction in Aberdeenshire is Crathes Castle.{Visit Scotland Figures}
As I am a fully paid up member of the National Trust for Scotland, if I had the time, which I haven’t, I could probably find you many other places in Scotland which gets more TOURISTS than Trump’s course.
Would also like to add that we need more things to be accepted in Aberdeen i am fed up of the council rejecting everything like the Aberdeen’s City Garden Project and the Aberdeen football stadium plans and as for the Aberdeen bypass it has taken so long cars will be flying before its finished.
This would sound a lot less like a childish rant and more like an observation if you called people by their names instead of just throwing about surnames. Stewart Spence for example…
Secondly, the Evening Express is a privately owned newspaper. While you may not like it that means they can print what they like about who they like as long as they have the evidence to back it up. That also means there can be no such thing as a conflict of interests. They are not a publicly funded body, they are funded by the sales of the paper. Whether you like it or not the Evening Express is, by sales figures, the most popular local newspaper in Scotland. While their style of writing is only a touch better than yours, they make money.
Thirdly, how can anyone take anything you write seriously when your polls are as mature as p5’s in the playground deciding which boy is the best looking in their class.
This has to be some of the most uneducated, one sided, childish drivel I have ever had the misfortune of clicking a link to and I’ve read sun newspaper articles before…
[ Whilst you are welcome to your opinion Brian, and we are happy to accomodate and publish same, an unsubstantiated insult has been removed from your post. Will be reinstated if you can point out one single example which backs up your claim – moderator ]
I think you will find that most people reading a newspaper would want the relationship between its editor and a golf course it promotes to be fully disclosed – why the secrecy? There are codes of ethics and standards that come into play – well, or that should do.
You clearly missed the point that the survey re. ‘saving the evening express’ was a. satirical and b. undertaken to show how statistics can easily be manipulated. I told you the sample size and confirmed that no responses were paid for or solicited. Let’s see the Evening Express do the same with their recent ‘broken heart’ survey, and let’s see the actual numbers and details involved in the ‘up to 93% increase because of Trump’ claim revealed.
Has it ever occured to you that other NE tourist attractions are enjoying increased visitors because of the additional people Trump’s course is bringing to the area? Probably not because it would harm your anti Trump stance. I live in the area and your comments about the poor downtrodden Menie resident is nothing short of laughable.
Have you seen the state of one of the properties in particular? It should have been bulldozed years ago as an environmental hazard. Aberdeen and the North East is quickly becoming a backwater due to a minority of NIMBYs in prominent positions blocking progressive projects which benefit the area in general.
Wow what is going on here? Tommy, Jason, Ledandy, William and now Ally suddenly appearing in support of a position consistently adopted by George just after he appears to have been outed, on the basis of the evidence, as a racist sexist “perv” What a remarkable coincidence!
Let’s see if you are any better at answering questions than the others. Can you tell me how many “additional people” have come to the area as a result of the Trump development?
Bruce you are asking an impossible question to answer with any real figure and you know it, thats why you keep asking it. To find out what you have asked the following would have to be done; Barricades erected all around Aberdeen with tourist check points that ask, Do you live in Aberdeen or the surrounding area. What is the purpose of your visit to Aberdeen. Has the new golf course at Balmedie Beach had any bearing on your visit.
Without such a comprehensive survey any figure given can and most probably would be met with the same “check how right I am na na nana na” style argument you are sticking to as if it proves some magical point you havent quite managed to make yet.
[ Note to moderator received and read Brian, and as it at least proves you know there is a moderator, it should come as no surprise to you that your posts are subject to moderation – Moderator ]
Perhaps your remarks as to the impossibility of counting how many Trump-related visits there are to our area should not be directed at those who are questioning the logic, methodology, sample size, duration used by the hotel association and Spence who claim to be able to put a figure of ‘up to 93%’ on the increase value?
Ally, there is considerable problem with your comment re the buildings on Menie Estate, the vast majority of them are in a very sound and stable condition. The only house that is in significant need of essential maintenance actually belongs to Trump. The tenants are getting no response when they try and get repairs done! So please check your facts and accept when you are wrong.
I’ll think you’ll find most people couldnt care at all who was married to who within Aberdeen Journals apart from those with axes to grind and no real evidence to back any of their assumptions up so then have to look for ulterior reasons. You’re around two steps away from claiming the royal family are really lizard people and Elvis is alive and well on the moon…
The poll you question doesnt claim to be comprehensive, just a snap shot from the hotels asked. They will be based on figures gathered from straw polls left in rooms and questionnaires sent out by email after the stay, comprehensive it certainly is not. The writer then uses Jury’s Inn as a separate example. Without casting to many assertions I think it goes without saying that most of those in Jury’s in for £35 a night arent in the city to see the sights and tour the country just like those paying up to £450 a night arent in the city to get drunk in the big smoke with their friends from Buckie. Its also safe to say just like the Chamber of Commerce used the most positive example to highlight its message the writer used the most negative. Would it have made you all happier if the Chamber of Commerce had lead with JURY’S INN SALES UP 5% BECAUSE OF TRUMP COURSE and then right down the bottom and Mr Spence has said the Marcliffe has recorded a rise of 93% in golf tourists. Childish to the extreme.
Brian,
You have already conceded that is impossible to calculate the increase in visitors, if any, which can be attributed to the Trump development. Your apparent support for those who suggest otherwise would, therefore, appear to put you at odds with yourself.
Frankly, your failure to accept that the public have been consistently misled, by a variety of sources, in relation to the potential benefits of Trump, suggest that you will be very much looking forward to joining Elvis in a lunar rendition of Heartbreak Hotel in the very near future.
An evocative piece. Please, everybody, get an objection to this in. Try to imagine if you were in Susan Munro and her family’s place, how awful this treatment would be.
Stewart Spence said during an interview with The Times that he travelled to London to purchase his shirts and boasted about how much they cost. What was wrong with the shirts available in the local shops? He also said something along the lines that the dunes at Menie had no value. Clearly a man fitting the famous Oscar Wilde quotation. I think he is envious of Trump. DT has a private 737 but Spency has to make do with a ride on mower. Spence has been a cheerleader for Trump’s grandiose scheme throughout. However the image of him dressed in short skirt, Alice band, bobby socks and wielding a pair of pompoms is making me nauseous.
Have put in my objection Suzanne but given the council’s track record with regard to all things Trump I am very sceptical about people’s objections carrying any any weight. in the council’s eyes.
I have no interest in golf but if it keeps some people happy, that’s fine by me. What is not fine, what will never be fine, is unequal treatment under the law. Planning regulations and procedures exist for good reason and should be equally applied across the board. That being the case, the events at Menie should be a national scandal, being a glaring example of preferential treatment for someone who is not even a British citizen, far less a tax payer. I have no doubt that some people will have received financial benefits from the development at Menie but they will be very few. Hardly any jobs have been created, despite the inflated claims for such prior to planning being granted, and those which do exist are temporary, seasonal, part-time and/or low-paid. Few could afford to take them. The continued inexactitudes emanating from the people involved in the development and the broadcasting of the same via the local media remind me of the concepts of newspeak and thoughtcrime in Orwell’s 1984. Perhaps those who doubt the value of questioning the claims made should read that book and try to imagine, if possible, how they might feel if they were subjected to the treatment suffered by the residents at Menie.
Spot on Christine
Well Bruce what a load of garbage you have now aimed at me. I neither know George or have any allegiance to him. For you to make such a broad sweeping statement about me shows staggering ignorance.I would tread very carefully in what you are implying.
Ally, I would suggest that you have another look at your original comment and then ponder the wisdom of accusing other people of making broad sweeping statements. You might be a tad embarassed. I’m not quite sure what you mean when you refer to a perceived implication and don’t really care.
By the way, are you threatening me Ally?
Objection in but I share Bob’s pessimism with regard to Aberdeenshire Council.
done on the grounds of health and wellbeing of the residents
I too have put an objection in but I notice that it may be 5 days before it appears in public by which time they will have made their decision. This application is a total disgrace but am very afraid that won’t be enough for our glorious planning dept to reject it. How that creature has the gall to say that his ‘human rights’ are being abused by having to look at a windfarm many miles out to sea when he can to this to someone’s home should beggar belief except that in Trump’s case absolutely nothing does any more. Wicked and immoral.
Kay, I don’t think you ought to worry about whether or not your objection appears in public. As long as it has been received by Aberdeenshire Council within the time limit, then the planning officers and committee must consider it, along with all other representations when they meet to make their decision. I don’t know when their next committee sits (perhaps Suzanne does) but certainly, with Aberdeen City Council, there is generally a window of a couple of weeks between close date for representations and committee sitting.I submitted my objection by email on Tuesday evening and received acknowledgement yesterday. A quick look confirms that to date, there have been 31 objections/representations. The website is currently displaying only 9 of those. I would expect to see more displayed by close of business today. You could try to contact Belhelvie Community Council as they might know more.
The anti Trump brigade associated with this site and their Facebook page will never accept anything positive which comes from TIGL in the form of increased visitor numbers or the economic benefits.
The blatant blinkered approach by all involved cannot see past their own hatred of the man to see the good the course is doing and can only continue to do in the future.
It’s impossible to point out reason to those who just don’t want to see it. Donald Trump isn’t the nicest person in the world and the way he’s went about his treatment of a few locals (although you never hear about the ones who made a killing on their property) could have and should have been handled better. However the course is built, the second has stared and people are coming to the area specifically to play it and the region IS seeing the benefits of it yet it would stick in their throats and choke them to death before anyone associated with this page or it’s regular contributors to admitted anything positive about the course.
I’ll be surprised if this sees the light of day however as long as you see it then that’ll do because you know and I know that’s the truth of it….. Now should I add a stupid smiley face to indicate I can say what I want and get away with it as long as I make out it’s a joke?
quick one – who are you accusing of hatred? For the record, I don’t hate a soul, so who do you mean? If not me, perhaps this accusation belongs somewhere other than on one of my articles. Many people have set out the abuses of law, procedure, overriding environmental protection, biased policing, arrest of journalists, illegal security operations directed at locals, etc. ad nauseum. But for you none of this matters, just the possibility that money is being made. Trump has, according to the BBC and others, links with organised crime. But as long as he’s perhaps making money, whatever the cost, that’s all that’s important to you. Again, you are invited to write your own article; please do.
The bit I like about this post is “although you never hear about the ones who made a killing on their property”. Drue is right there we never hear about them. Come on then Drue, who are these people?
It’s one thing to say the region is seeing benefits, and write about the good the course is doing but you dont say what these are. I thought Aberdeen Voice was supposed to check what it published but it looks to me like the word of Drue is fact enough.
I cant wait to read the article Suzanne says you should write Drue. I’m dying to know what that second course has been staring at.
Good point Gary, when it comes to articles, there is back up for any facts presented. however, when it comes to the comments, we are a bit more lenient. I re-invite Drue to write an article – anyone can write one – and share his facts and references with us for his claims.
We hear about 3 family’s who didn’t sell up and move on. It’s their right to stay after all as it’s their homes so I’m not knocking them, never have never will. However there was more than 3 homes that was affected by the building of the course and all but 3 sold up. Why do we never hear about the people who were happy to take an above valuation for their homes and land?
It’s all very well highlighting the 3 that are left however in the interests of parity we should also know about the ones who were happy to sell and have had a successful outcome of their dealings with Donald Trump. So they are the people Gary, does that keep you happy? Also no outrageous claims have been made however you’d find out fairly easily that local businesses have benefited from the building of the course, food n drink suppliers, local people getting jobs who spend those wages in the region, Golfers who are heading up to play the course that may not have had Aberdeenshire on their radar when planning their golfing trip to Scotland, florists supplying blooms for the club house and dinner tables. The very fact it is there means people are spending extra in the region and that can be said without any hard evidence for back up, that’s pure common sense!! And the last sentence you wrote makes no sense so please clarify.
Suzanne, for you to say that you don’t hate anyone is all fine and well so we can perhaps exclude you however don’t try and make a fool of anyone by insinuating that The Voice in general then doesn’t hate Donald Trump, one of you has in fact said it (well wrote it). And will YOU publish anything positive about TIGL? It’s all very well telling me to write something however I’m not the one with the anti Trump agenda. I’ve put enough down in favor of the course while saying I don’t particularly like Donald Trump or his methods. I do support what he’s trying to achieve and think all the positives it will bring outweigh the negatives. However The Voice is a full on anti Trump/Course publication and for that reason you’d never admit anything positive about the course or what it’s bringing in the way of cash to the local economy.
Drue, as one of the residents who have not sold to Trump I would ask you to tell me who has, because to the best of my knowledge there have only been two properties within the estate boundaries that have been sold since 2005. Both sold privately to parties other than Trump, at open market value. There have been no over market values offers made, the best offer for my own home was approximately 50% of market value at the time. Offers received by others were also considerably less than market value. so please get your facts right.
Also if the second course has started then all work should stop as it would be a breach of planning as no formal application has yet been made to the best of my knowledge. As for local staff, I understand there has been a considerable turn over, I wonder why?
Drue, I can assure you the Voice doesn’t have an editorial policy, unlike the local newspapers where Damian Bates has a clear, visible financial interest in Trump doing well – his wife is VP there. The AV contributors – and you’re welcome to join their ranks and write an article – all have their own thoughts on issues, and there is no one here telling us what to write, what to write about, or how to think. If there have only been a few pro-Trump articles over the course of his presence here, perhaps that has something to do with virtually no one submitting a pro-Trump piece: perhaps this reflects how people feel? By all means, send us in a pro-Trump, fact-based story, and it will be published. But there is no Aberdeen Voice agenda on this or any other issue.
Aye David He was one of the great performers
Sorry David, Bit a cwidna resist ess.
“Ye’ll gyang a lang wye afore ye’ll meet his marra”
Aye Bob . An afa lang wye afore ye’ll meet the mannie Marra’s marra!
Far’s Strawberry Bank? Far’s the auld Wallace To’er”
Fat’s come owre the Denburn ablow and abeen?
An’ dammit, ye’ve flittit oor Tarnary Ha’,
rugged doon the New Market and muckt up the Green.
That was from AM Davidson’s (1897-1979) poem ‘Vandalism’.
But nothing changes, except for the worse it seems.
But keep it up Smithy, as long as you can. You are the voice now of a great tradition.
“Rather than privatising our coal reserves to further enrich the wealthy, perhaps this source of revenue might be better used to bolster our empty public purse.”
If something is going to be harmful, don’t do it all. A shame that you both opened and closed with this argument and in between used the fact that it could have dangerous consequences. If it’s not right for private investors to exploit these reserves, then it’s not right that the public should either. The money to be made didn’t need to come into the argument.
Fit wye wid y’ want yer valve amplifier tanned?
Well missed indeed!
Rare review David, I was hoping that you would be moved to write something. Good loon!
Thanks for your comment Diane.
A’ll dee ma best!!!
You could have cleaned the bird shit off the window before taking the photo!
Here you are Rico min:
http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Amps/Fender-Pro-Junior-Amp-Tan/td-p/17679840
although the tweed eens are my ain preference.
Drue, all you have done above when you reply to me is say the same thing but with more words but little in the way of facts. Do you actually know for sure there were more than 3 houses affected?
If you cant say for sure that more than 3 people sold out to Trump, and tell us who these are, then it suggests you know nothing about it and if you dont know that, then you cant say anyone was offered ‘above value’ settlements, and so your claim that a significant amount of people has made a killing is not worth a damn.
I think as well when you count up what financial benefits the golf course has brought you need to balance that up with things like where does all the money go from the overpriced meals served by the underpaid staff? This is out of the pockets of locals as well as visitors. Are you telling us this feeds into the local economy? If you are I would like tell me how, because I dont believe that for a second. Just because money is spent on the course does not guarantee a penny to the local economy.
I dont think you know an awful lot about it Drue and you’re not doing an awful lot to convince me otherwise.
What evidence is there, which suggests that any business going to Trump International Golf Links Scotland, be it for golf or for very expensive meals in a temporary club house is new business, incremental to Aberdeenshire? Simply saying so is does not make it fact. Aberdeenshire has plenty to offer already both to lovers of golf and of fine dining. The brand Trump, to informed consumers, seems unlikely to be a draw. Curiosity perhaps, for some.
Those who claim a so-called Trump effect appear consistently to be supporters of Donald Trump and his brand, which is perhaps less curious. Vested interests, in business and in local media and in commentary are an easy spot. Language appears to mimic that of the man behind the brand, “93%” and “haters” and comments when challenged quickly become vitriol, noteable by a lack of humour and frequency of posts.
I do not hate Donald Trump. Like so many other members of the public who have taken an interest in the events surrounding his development at Menie and the shockingly bad treatment of the Menie residents, I support them in their fight against a bully. I hope Aberdeenshire and the Scottish Government will do right by them and put people first, before profit. The ends do not justify the means and politicians are accountable for their actions. I am anti Trump and I applaud Aberdeen Voice for publishing the truth.
Over to you, Alex Salmond, and others.
I’m an Aberdonian and I’ve always thought it strange when I hear people call the place, “The Silver City” (in reference to the granite). I only see grey buildings and concrete.
Sean
Aat’s cos the biggins are nae weel leuk’t efter. Fin I wis a loon the toon deserved it’s “Silver City” tag
I inherited my mother-in-law’s tea trolley which, ‘way back in the dim and distant past she used when inviting me to afternoon tea – and possibly weighing me up as a potential bride for her son! She would wheel it in front of a roaring fire, laden with little sandwiches and delicious home-baked goodies. It had a shelf underneath and a fold-back top with a green biaze surface for card playing. . . . . Readers, I married him!
PS: It probably doesn’t really count as as tea trolley, but although I don’t hold afternoon teas any more, I can’t bear to part with this very useful little piece of furniture.
Dear Irene, your mother-in-law obviously saw something special in you when she met you for the first time. The image of that roaring fire and those delicious home-baked goodies says it all!
Afternoon teas and indeed buns made tea trolleys what they were and always will be. What a memory for you to treasure always!
I’m wi ye there Bob, an Diane Morgan tee. Far will it aa end?
Aye gled o fowk’s support Irene
(You’ve got my support 100% Bob – I just can’t get the hang of Doric) 🙂
It goes without saying that the killing of Dr Rinpoche and his companions is very sad and concerning. What also makes this upsetting for me, is that our First Minister Alex Salmond refuses to listen or acknowledge the human right abuses by the Chinese government, but instead falls over himself like an excitable lap dog as he ingratiates himself to any Chinese dignitary.
A year on, his brother speaks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtJfR50EWTM&feature=youtu.be
Ach Suzanne quine— ye’ll jist hae tae try a bittie harder he! he!
Thunks fer yer support tho’
While recognising that UTG are in need of a revamp, I have hated all the plans that I have seen to date. From what little I have seen, the John Halliday proposal looks really attractive. It keeps the large grassy areas, it covers over the Denburn and the horrible dual carriageway, and lifts the base of the gardens higher which will reduce the amount of shade. Most importantly, it seems to keep the essential essence of the gardens, that indefinable “UTNness”.
I am greatly encouraged.
“The AWPR will not solve the ills of the truly inadequate road system in the area, but it will surely assist in lessening congestion slightly”
So we’re spending hundreds of millions on something that will lessen congestion slightly? The AWPR is 30 years too late. That an oil rich city/country is spending its money on becoming more dependant on an inefficient oil based transportation is insane. The AWPR money should be spent on fixing the haudagain, bridge of dee and great western road/langstracht lights (all of which will remain a serious issue with the AWPR) with the remainder going on beginnings of a complete overhaul of our public transport system and a proper cycling route design. AWPR is being done to open a new corridor for building more unsustainable and badly designed plastic housing, industrial and retail estates that will double the reliance and burden on our roads. Only when we have fixed the existing problems should we consider spending money on the AWPR, when we’re in a position whether we actually require it or not.
The Mistake about the Hauagain is that they never put in a flyover. Also the Bridge of Dee should have had a second bridge built when the Dee Motel closed. They still would have had room for Boots etc, just move them a bit
All good points Fin and nice article!
Preaching to the converted here I suspect, but one of the hazards of living in Aberdeenshire is the proliferation of those huge Chelsea Tractor vehicles which the oil rich buy and then attempt to use on the rural roads. With names like Defender, Land Cruiser and Outlander they are often driven by diminutive men and women who only ever drive off road on the grass verge at my local Tesco’s car park.
Some of these monsters are so long and wide that the drivers really should sit a special driving test just to get to drive them round corners. When met on a country road they often dominate the whole road and avoid the puddles lest they get mud on their vehicle of choice. We actually have a Humvee in my locality! I understand the owner lives in a flat in Inverurie and commutes to Dyce each day doing 55mph at a roaring 4mpg. The daily journey seemingly includes fuel stops every few miles and the occupants require a stepladder to get into the vehicle.
Don’t get me wrong though, these muscle cars have their place. I well remember a desert trip North of Cairo where a pal and I travelled off road for hours exploring Roman settlements and illegally collecting Amphora. The North East of Scotland has both but most are well within reach of a well surfaced road.
I have done a desert trip in Tunisia in one of these vehicles, but we want to Star Wars film set.
Thanks for that Steve. Looks like a seriously vibrant place. Do you have any WW1 stories aboot the place?
There is an update to this story as follows:
12 OCTOBER 2012
PRESS RELEASE FROM LAMA YESHE LOSAL RINPOCHE, ABBOT OF KAGYU SAMYE LING MONASTERY, SCOTLAND
RE: THE DEATH OF CHOJE AKONG TULKU RINPOCHE
Now that the Chengdu Police have released the names of the men who killed Choje Akong Tulku Rinpoche, his nephew and attendant, we are in a position to confirm that one of the suspects named by the police, Tu Dan Gu Sha also known as Thubten Kunsal, had previously spent more than five years in the UK, and returned to China two years ago.
Whilst residing in the UK he made religious statues at our monastery in Scotland and our London centre. He left very happy and there was no question of any economic dispute. My brother, Choje Akong Tulku Rinpoche had always been very kind to Thubten Kunsal and welcomed him into the heart of our community.
According to an official microblog post by the Chengdu police force, the three suspects confronted my brother and the other two victims, with knives, at his home in Chengdu in what is being described as an “economic dispute.”
We strongly refute any claims that Thubten Kunsal was owed money by Akong Rinpoche, the monastery or our London centre. When he was with us in the UK we supported his living expenses as agreed in writing, and there was never any dispute about that.
We are therefore very shocked that two years later he came demanding money, knowing that Akong Rinpoche was about to send funds to the ROKPA charitable projects in the Tibetan areas of China. As we have already stated, Akong Rinpoche died defending those funds.
It has been reported in the press that the driver who was killed was a monk from Samye Ling. This is not correct. It was Akong Tulku Rinpoche’s Tibetan attendant, from his Monastery Dolma Lhakang, who has not been to the UK.
I hope this statement will clear up any misunderstandings,
With thanks for your prayers and kind wishes,
Lama Yeshe Losal Rinpoche
Abbot of Kagyu Samye Ling Monastery, Scotland.
I personally don’t but I have attached a link to Glenbuchat Heritage website where there is a wealth of info and pics .If you have any info you can upload .I have also passed on your comments to Peter who runs the Glenbuchat heritage association .He may be able to help with any specific info you are looking for .There are memorials in both Glenkindie and Strathdon so I am sure there were men from the buchat that served .
http://www.glenbuchatheritage.com/index.asp
Where do we start Suzanne; Well Sir Ian Wood has informed us (courtesy of the P&J) that any debate in regard to the new “vision” for Union Terrace Gardens should not be conducted publicly. Seems we’re heading for a re-run of the previous fiasco where the public were misled, bombarded with half truths, even downright lies to win them over.
Perhaps a sensible and cost effective compromise is overdue? What about we simply cover the road and railway adjacent to the park (clearly marking the ventilation systems that would be required) to provide an increased green space, then abandon the glass and concrete boxes proposed for Broad Street in favour of a large civic square fronting Marishal College. At a fraction of the cost we would have two significant public spaces for the good citizens to relax and enjoy themselves in. Just a thought.
Just think, all those billions used for health, education, housing and a decent, cheap, public transport system along with creating jobs for our youth. I’d say it’s a no brainer.
Of course, we will need a defense force, but are aircraft carriers and the like really necessary? Is having a nuclear “deterrent” that we dare not use really essential?
I look forward to Scots having the good sense to vote for a government that will be answerable to them at the ballot box (something we have never had with Westminster), who can implement policies that are appropriate to the well being of the nation and it’s citizens. It can happen, but only we can make it happen.
The Friends of Union Terrace Gardens have a vision. Their vision is for a tranquil place in our city centre where we can relax.
John Halliday also has a vision, complete with artists impressions, but how believable are they? Remember the artists impressions for the failed City Garden Project? A significant number of impossibilities were flaunted to gull the citizenry. Let’s hope we are not being misled once again.
Union Terrace Gardens are located on Common Good Lands. These are supposedly for the use of Aberdonians (and visitors), in perpetuity, not for some commercial interest to make a profit from.
One final note: Aberdeen has a serious traffic problem. Could anyone explain to me how closing off streets is going to improve that situation? Where will the displaced traffic go? Perhaps one of Mrs Boulton’s famous “tunnels” will emerge on to the agenda?
Well written article Mike.A letter in the P&J castigates the likes of you and me as being naysayers for trying to foist what he termed our agenda on the rest of the population of Aberdeen.What the hell is Sir Ian Wood trying to do but just that.
Why anyone would even consider voting “no” in the North East troubles me. For nearly two generations the wealth created in Aberdeen and it’s environs has been milked off by Westminster for various dubious schemes which were of no benefit to Scotland whatsoever.
We could join the number of successful small nations in the world if we so chose who are not involved in un-winnable wars and the nuclear arms race. Only time will tell if we have the vision to do so.
Just think. By now now we could have had a completed Peacock Visual Arts complex which the vast majority were in favour of (excluding Sir Ian Wood). We could have had an escalator from Guild Street in to The Trinity Centre providing a covered route from the railway station to Union Street. Neither of those projects would have cost the earth.
In regard to “connectivity”: Both Belmont Street and Union Terrace provide this at present. Why do we need any more?
Edinburgh has a similar, if somewhat larger, garden in it’s centre. No one is proposing “raising” it to provide car parking, so why should we? What is needed is a large dose of tlc to the existing gardens, in the process saving the taxpayer many millions.
“Halliday – Fraser – Munro, the company that drew up the original technical feasibility study for the City Garden Project.
They also created the plans for the Triple Kirks office block and the proposed Muse development on the St Nicholas House site.”
I’d like to draw up some plans to build over the current Halliday-Fraser-Munro office.
I agree that we must try and preserve as much of the original Union Terrace Gardens as we can whilst still making it a more attractive and accessible haven in the city centre. However, over the years, many of the mature trees have grown to such a size and height that a great part of the gardens is now in gloomy shade – one can now hardly see the gardens at all from Union Bridge. I would like to see most of these huge trees removed and replace by smaller ones to open up the gardens to as much natural sunlight as possible. I am also in total agreement that the gardens should NOT be raised to street level but I strongly feel that they could be raised to the level of the upper walkway and still retain the feature of a sunken, and sheltered, garden area. The area below should be made into a FREE car park to attract visitors to the gardens and to the city centre since current parking restrictions are deterring many from visiting the city centre at all. The current proposals to pedestrianise both Union Street AND Broad Street would be the death-knell of our once thriving city centre and the area would further deteriorate – where on earth is the displaced traffic supposed to be diverted?
Mike, your quote: ‘A rational solution is to spend some money on improving the gardens but not a great deal. They don’t really need many millions spent on them to bring about a city centre heart that everybody can be proud of.’ So why on earth did you suggest having a station/halt in the gardens that will instantly open the door to uber commercial activity and cost 10s of millions. And why did you present visuals that indicate a huge reduction in Green space?
Well put Suzanne. Great piece. We can learn a lot from Dundee. If only….
Nice wee write up and photos, but . . . Substitute the word ” that”, with “THAN “…. and this sentence will flow better . . . “larger crowd that they had tonight”, cheers Biz .
Oops …. it’s aye those wee words ye have tae watch for … sneaky wee buggers 🙂 … Cheers Biz, now amended.
Hits the nail on the head.
I live in an Aberdeen Council house and apart from the accommodation being very poor, there is little or no insulation. The water heater and electric storage heaters haven’t been replaced since the house was built decades ago and during the winter it can be very cold. This year I have not put the heating on in the bedroom but am sleeping on the sofa (in the sitting room), I don’t intend going into or using the bedroom and hopefully this will save a quarter of my heating/electric bill.
Pretty much as expected. Nobody with any influence in Aberdeen is interested in anything but bleeding the city dry. It’s disgusting and makes me ashamed to be an Aberdonian 🙁
Cross the venue off your list , really you have just started out and your dissing venues, have shot in drummonds a million times and some of my best pics have been there. Stop whinging you can use your flash, if you choose not too then that’s your fault.
Also too many photographers come into the scene and expect to
Shoot all the big bands and don’t want to ply there trade in the smaller venues.
Hmm, OK – where do I say I want to shoot all the big bands? I don’t, so you can come off that horse for a start. I’ve been shooting mostly local bands – including those that have been playing in HMV – my next musings will cover the Old Granite Whistle Test.
I didn’t diss Drummonds (which is actually a nice place) – I state that (for my purpose there) the lighting was not good. I don’t want to use flash – I’m pretty sure that the use of flash is actually not that pleasant for the band to have going off in their faces, plus it seems to lose some of the atmosphere of the gig. You may think otherwise and you are entitled to your opinion – as I am mine.
I am learning – but I don’t think dropping someone in the deep end of the pool is the best way to teach them to swim. While I figure out the technical side of low light shooting, I prefer to at least be able to focus.
So, here’s what I have done since I wrote this article. Not being totally happy with my Spear of Destiny pics, I did some research (I’m a scientist – that’s what we do) about how I could fix the issues I had with them. THEN I went back to the same location with the same equipment and – using the information I had gleaned – shot some more. These seemed better with regard focus etc. so worth doing I thought.
The next outing was at the Tunnels (#2) – a lot of the action went on off the stage, where there was little lighting. Using the information I gained from the last shoot, I had some fun there shooting in near darkness at times.
So, I learn, I experiment.
Oh, and I am female – we reserve the right to change our minds. Once I am comfortable with low light shoot (sans flash), my list will be updated again.
Let’s get it sorted, And you can get off your high horse, I said lots of photographers come on to the scene, I never once said YOU , I have had many letters asking how to get straight to the big bands. You are surmising bands think flash is unpleasant for bands, Slash and Alice Cooper state use flash, as they probably want decent photos, cause low light can be difficult and you only have 3 songs or less.
As I have stated, these are my opinions – and I am entitled to them. As you are yours. I think we should just agree we disagree about certain things. I’m sure there are other experienced togs who disagree with you (and me) as well.
These articles are about how I see and find things – just my experiences & frustrations, as I only have mine to go on so far. In future articles, I plan on chatting to other togs (including you maybe?) about their experiences, highs, lows, how they got started etc. I think it would be an interesting insight into the world from the other side of the lens.
Of course ya can speak to me, anytime, I just disagreed with sone of your stuff, it wasn’t personal . And yes people will agree and disagree with us both. 🙂
Looking to the future, I can foresee the following happening:
1 – Prices will rises to satisfy shareholder demands
2 – Services will decline for the same reason
3 – It is highly possible that Royal Mail will be taken over by another country all together.
Suspect you are right on all 3 Ron. Royal Mail are already priced out of the letter and post card market and depend heavily on Ebay/Amazon deliveries. Once others move in they are basically ripe for a grab by the white van man companies.Also the rate of postal theft has rocketed which is a sign that things are not good in Pat’s world.
Very valid points but, given the largest gap between rich and poor came to pass when Labour was in power, what chance do we have of any change under the Tories?
There are solutions to economic problems of money scarcity and distribution.
The Money Reform movement has been calling for macroeconomic money reform for many years. We have a debt-based money system imposed on us.
If there is no debt there is no money.
Minted fiat money (cash) only makes up 3% of our money supply, which means just about all of our money is created in the form of bank credit which demands principal and interest.
Since the principal and interest must also come from the same bank credit source, the interest can never be paid back because more interest is demanded. Interest is rolled over and becomes compound interest. We are forced to dig a deeper hole for ourselves.
That’s why debt can only go up and taxes too.
The Positive Money charity explains it well.
http://www.positivemoney.org/
Great story folks. I was in Crovie yesterday for a family day out and was intrigued by the Dalek. It would be great to hear the full story of the shipwreck incident. Pictures of the stricken S S Vigilant might be hard to come by, but fingers crossed someone managed to get some before it broke up completely.
I’m about 1/3rd of the way through Eric Schlosser’s book; “COMMAND and CONTROL.” Already I feel very uncomfortable about what our Westsinister government may be covering up about safety of TRIDENT II missiles at the Faslane submarine base. It is enough knowledge to make one realise why it is based as far away from London as possible. The fact it is just ten miles up the road from Glasgow seems of no concern to the London government. They must surely be forced out of this base by a YES vote in the independence referendum.
I am shocked that Grampian Police have yet to both apologise and compensate this man for the obvious violation of both his house and his civil liberties.
Has he complained to his local MP?
some politicians are helping, yes.
Absolutely shocking treatment. No surprise really that the police won’t give answers because they will stick together and protect those who are most accountable. The council would have known months ago that repairs had to be done but are too busy trying to work out how to cut costs and fleece us any which way they can. Credit to Oi Polloi for their efforts. Awesome gesture. Well done you!
I know exactly how it feels to deal with Aberdeen City Council’s housing department, I would like to take legal action against them for the discrimination, abuse and intimidation I have suffered from their staff.
I know the Garthdee area and it is true that many elderly and disabled people live here. It is very unfair of the council to ask these people, who may have little money to live on to pay for a parking permit, in some cases as was mentioned above when they don’t even own a car. I wonder if there are many resident parking zones where Ian Wood lives.
Also, there used to be a beaver bus (No 93) that snaked through Garthdee and then went down to Sainsbury’s and Asda, then later came back up again. It was a two way service that ran from the city centre to Peterculter three or four times a day and it was a life-line for dozens of elderly/disabled people getting their groceries. Aberdeen Council stopped subsidising this beaver bus (about a year and a half ago) and the service ceased. Many elderly people now have to walk down to the supermarket but walk back home up a steep hill and the paths that lead from Garthdee Road up to the houses are even steeper and dangerous. In bad weather such as with snow, sleet, hail and ice on the ground even the young and fit students struggle.
I wonder Sean if the council can be persuaded to allocate visitors passes at a vastly reduced rate to non vehicle owners. Perhaps these could be means tested to take account of low income households.
Good one, Duncan, and Sean is on the nail also. My old auntie & uncle, who live in Montrose Drive, were talking about this only yesterday. They don’t run a car, but why should they have to pay for a permit so that their daughters and others can visit?
For all those concerned about this issue, I will update the Voice in due course. There is a further meeting to discus the situation on 11th November in Inchgarth Community Centre. I will personally be inviting Dame Anne Begg MP and Doug Ritchie of Aberdeen Planning and Infrastructure to attend.
Meantime, any points and views will be gratefully received.
Both invited, 7.30 prompt.
A subsequent article with photos showing the state of the flat can be found here: https://aberdeenvoice.com/2013/11/siege-heathryfold-devastation-compensation/ , and the Police have sent a letter, apparently wishing to (finally) begin a compensation process. There will be further updates as and when.
Have to agree with you Suzanne. It would appear all those privatisations that promised to benefit we mere mortals were a staggering success. We now have sky high utility prices, the most expensive rail fares in Europe, massive monopoly’s controlling our bus services. Weren’t we promised that fares and costs would drop dramatically with the new setup? Someone must have miscalculated. Perhaps they didn’t realise that “shareholder value” is the main priority of private companies. We can’t possibly have the shareholders being short changed at the cost of the consumer can we?
The current governments obsession with selling off the family silver takes some beating. One would think, if an organisation is profitable and contributing to The Exchequer they would hold on to it at all costs, but no. We have the profitable Royal Mail sold off. A dogged determination to re-privatise the North East Rail Line when, apparently, it contributes vast amount to government funds, unlike all the other rail companies which need massive subsidy. Maybe we’re all missing something. I’m sure the party who insists “market forces” is the be all and end all will enlighten us in the fullness of time.
Perhaps they could save a few billion by privatising the armed forces while they’re at it. I’m sure some wealthy individual, or organisation, could save large amounts of money asset stripping the facilities afforded to our forces. A few buildings in London spring to mind. I’m sure the MOD staff would be happy in a few portacabins and the troops have tents do they not?
Never mind, come next September we have the chance to change things.
It seems the great and the good demand we have a public space to enhance Aberdeen’s tarnished reputation after the “Granite Web” debauchle. Wouldn’t the Broad Street site be ideal? We could have two significant public spaces in our city centre at a fraction of the cost proposed for vandalising Union Terrace Gardens. Just a thought.
Seems reasonable to me Ron. Mind you the naming of squares may prove problematical. St Nicholas Square, Hanging Gardens of Broad Street and a few other unpublishable ideas spring to mind.
Duncan– They micht at the openin o ess civic square play the “Muse”ic fae Legend o the Glass Mountain or even hae a bittie o “square duncin” Efter bein doon at the public consultation a think they should as weel play the theme tune fae “Pinnochio” as a cwid sweir a saw some fowks noses getting langer as they tried tae explain fit wis fit.
Ah right Bob, very A Musing …
I agree that this charge is disgraceful and the parking permit scheme is deeply flawed. I live in a HMO, for which two permits are allowed, even though four unrelated adults live here and we all have cars. This means that two of us cannot park here during the day, so have to drive to work. ACC stated that one of the aims of the scheme was to reduce the number of commuters travelling by car – making it expensive or even impossible for workers to leave their cars at home during the day does not help this cause!
What’s a HMO N?
House of Multiple Occupancy (or something like that).
Parking in and around Aberdeen is a nightmare. The problem is, that it doesn’t follow any sort of logical plan either. Parking permits appear to be being used as a money making scheme, as the addition of permit areas isn’t backed up by increased provision of public transport as an alternative. It should also be given its proper name, which is “parking tax”. It is a tax, which, at £6-10 per month, adds to the myriad of other compulsory taxes hidden among the monthly bills.
Quite often, the permit is only required between 8am and 5pm and so, as N says, people are forced to take their cars to work, and not use public transport.
I could be wrong too, but I think a tradesman can get a city-wide pass for parking in permit areas, which would mean not requiring folks to buy a visitor’s pass specifically for tradesmen visits. Might be worth checking that out before bringing it up at a meeting, better to be informed.
My mum can not leave the house on her own and will have to pay for a pass for me to take her out, for the cleaner, window cleaner, nurse etc to visit. Until recently before the charges we had a pass for my car, granted even though I don’t live there but I am her main carer. My car was written off and we went to get a permit for the new one to be told by a rather rude woman No, your mum has to be on the insurance. Mum is over 80 and has never driven. She then refused to issue a generic permit even though the Garthdee area folk are, according to the “new” rules, entitled to two generic permits, before the charges,. We were then told to put mum’s disabled badge in the car when there and dismissed.
Will the residents in Kincorth, Mastrick, Northfield and other areas similar to Garthdee also have permits enforced on them ? Or is it just the Garthdee residents being singled out to make up for the end of the uni money, the sweetener they crossed palms with to be allowed to build on a green area, it’s bad enough trying to get parked at mums with students parking in residents only areas with the vouchers from the local shop and giving us dogs abuse when we point it out to them.
I can’t be at the meeting on 11th as I am working and my mum won’t get either, There are a lot of housebound elderly whose voices are not being listened to in this
There is I have been told a plan to take Kaimhill into the scheme as well. That “rather rude woman” you describe is no doubt a council employee, paid by folk like your mum to carry out public service who should perhaps be taken to task for her attitude.
The city council publish a complaints procedure at http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/nmsruntime/saveasdialog.asp?lID=46472&sID=285
Whatever happened re the “29 year old man” reported to have been detained by Grampian Police for wasting Police time.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/aberdeen-siege-man-detained-for-wasting-police-time-1-2959452
Mind the cat
Just a wee update on the sell off. Aside from my cat narrowly escaping death today when a review book crashed through the letterbox above her head, it seems the share price has now reached a dizzy 574p. An increase of huge proportions when you consider the original 330p sell off price three weeks ago.
Shame the posties, who have called off the threatened strike, can’t rake in the dosh for another few years.
Documentary film maker Adam Curtis made an excellent series for the BBC called “The Mayfair Set,” all about the personalities and ideas that drove the asset-stripping eighties and continues today.
It’s well worth seeing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U-sNn28dJk
Adam Curtis also has a blog hidden away on the BBC website. Just enter his name in the search box and go to “The Medium and The Message.”
These seem interesting Gordon, I’ve down loaded them to my TV. Yesterday I watched Animal Farm (George Orwell) which I had never seen before, the pigs reminded me of a certain local authority 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClaNnaMgbF0
Pamela, I am in the same situation as yourself, my elderly parents live at the top end of Montrose Drive right opp. the university, it is a nightmare trying to get parked.Like yourself I was refused a fixed permit for my car, which I have had for the last 10yrs , Mum is 86 and Dad 83 and I am the one who takes them shopping etc.What really gets me angry is the fact they have had to £80 for the one permit and we can hardly get near their door for Students who have borrowed Auntie Jeans permit from the other side of Garthdee and come and park in Montrose Drive. It is my intention to be at the meeting on Monday night, I have spoken with two councillors so far and to date have not had satisfactory conclusion to this matter…
Hiya, thought provoking eh?
I dont like unions, if you dont like your job you know where the door is eh? I hear the Union in Grangmouth make a pretty penny out of the workers, but thats a different story.
Privatisation – hit the BBC, its worth billions, but yeah we`ve been getting scammed by successive goverments for as long as I can remember and I`m in me forties. I wouldnt care if it saved me a licence fee. ( who funds USA/BBC channel i wonder, also who gets all the license fee`s for making Dr who dolls?)
.gov is in a bit of a state just now tho` and they need money, the colossal amounts they demand from the poor isnt enough these days, my worry is where do all the western goverments borrow their money from, i cant help but think there is a war at the end of this tunnel somewhere.
one more, if the energy market is de-regulated so you or I could start selling energy, what if .gov started their own energy company, bought wholesale whatever and sold it to us. As you state its too late to buy telephone and energy services back as they are owned by foreign bodys, but we the people could simply “switch”
Too many ppl making lots of money just for generating invoices.
Sounds great. Do you think using the word “Radical” in your name is particularly useful, or descriptive?
Seems to me that, if you’re serious about providing an alternative choice, you should change name. The word radical would only ever garner a protest vote.
Going by your key visions, there is nothing radical about your views.
I think it would be a mistake if Scotland became independent. It’s all very well if a person has a strong Scottish identity and wants to express this by voting for independence, but the generations that come after us will not be the better for it.
I disagree with Sean. We have. possibly, a once in a lifetime opportunity to improve things for Scots. The over-riding benefit of independence would be a government voted for by Scots and accountable to them at the ballot box, something we have never had since The Act of Union in 1707.
Just think, all the billions wasted on nuclear weapons and meaningless wars, where many of our young men and women perished needlessly and to no good end would be ended. The monies expended on those ventures could be put to much better use to the benefit of our nation and citizens
In England, we have The Conservatives and UKIP posturing to leave the EU. Such a move would be a disaster for Scotland and we would have no say in it, as we have none in many important issues concerning us all.
The scare stories being peddled by the “no” lobby are just that. They merely wish to keep their high profile position on the world stage and have no concern for the well being of the average voter, only the retention of power for themselves. There is no reason why Scotland could not retain the pound. There is no reason why we would have border posts at Hardrian’s Wall. There is no reason why warships could not continue to be built on The Clyde. It is all simply political posturing to gratify their lust for power.
I would urge all to vote for independence to take our nation forward to become fairer and more compassionate. Many small countries are successful without all the natural resources we possess. Why could we not be also?
All fair and to the point comments Suzanne but what about all the nice Tory politicians who continually blame Labour for the mess the country’s in due to the deregulation of financial services when they wanted to go even further and just have a free for all?
Nearer to home, the delightfull Mrs Watts, Chief Executive of Aberdeen City Council, when asked, “do you condone your senior officials blatantly lying?” answered “no”, after a bit of waffling, but appears to condone the illustrious Pete Leonard for so doing. He vehemently denied a report from a clerk of works existed but, when pulled up by the SPSO said report mysteriously became available. Strange, don;t you think? Will he fall on his sword now he’s been found out? Doubtfull. It will just be another “over-site”, which our local and national politicians and officials are so guilty of.
good points Ron – couldn’t agree more. If I had a few hours, I’d comment further about Leonard / Watts, their convenient bouts of amnesia, and the fact they have more power than any elected councillor in ACC. Cheers
Thanks for the review, great to see the book getting local coverage, Fred would be proud. On the point ‘In terms of historical perspective, it is perhaps a dull book’ I would only direct the reader to the chapter Explanations & Acknowledgements. I was not trying to write yet another overview of the war and why it happened, but to write a different kind of history book, about one man from a singular background — St Cyrus — and how the war impacted on him, in the extraordinary eight months he was at the front with the Cameronians and his camera. The photo albums he left are remarkable, and they commemorate a remarkable bunch of men, and I find it touching that all the years after the war, they put together these albums in reinforce their comradeship. I hope my book does them justice. Andrew Davidson
Good point Andrew. Yes, the legacy the men who left Scotland to engage in that “adventure” is quite remarkable indeed and I would never demean their death except to say that it was perhaps a useless sacrifice to the industrialists of Britain and Europe.
Fred’s War is of course just one of seemingly over 1100 WW1 books about to hit the shelves prior to the anniversary of the start of the conflict. The St Cyrus link is important of course and his story is well worth the reading. Thank you for the writing!
As I have said “The strength of this book is in its images.”
I intend to lend the review copy to many friends and know that they will enjoy it.
Kindest regards,
Duncan Harley
Seemingly todays EPI committee rejected the case for review. Cllr Mrs Angela Taylor said it was unfortunate that the previous administration had misled the residents over the fact that they might have to pay for parking permits in the future. It is a fact, in my view, that if, as she says, the administration misled the community of the terms of the proposed Cotrolled Parking Zone when we were consulted on it, it raises serious questions about its validity.
Unfortunate perhaps but valid?
Rico, I do think that our message when compared to the status quo is radical. And we are not a political party. We are a group of activists from various backgrounds so a protest vote will do nicely. We are more about building a mass body of people to stand up when the day of independence comes. You should cone along to the meeting to discuss this further.
Perhaps “unfortunate” for Cllr Mrs Taylor that she didn’t realise that the supposed ’10 year clause’ was negotiated and introduced behind our backs under an administration led by HER party. That was the administration that she acknowledged had misled us.
It is the current administration that has failed to deliver the amendment to the area of the CPZ requested by the Roads Section and promised in the Development Management Committee Minutes when they gave conditional permission for the most recent phase of the campus. The same minutes said RGU could not occupy the new buildings until the scheme for the amendment had been agreed and implemented. This decision was made in public but with a nasty sting in its tail that said … unless agreed otherwise by the planning authority ( the City Council). Any such ‘agreement otherwise’ must have been done in private without public knowledge. This latter can surely not be legal. Time and better minds than the collective intellect of the EPI Committee and their advising officers will make a ruling when the matter goes to the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman who has responsibility for ruling on suspected local government maladministration.
What is the next step William?
The Big Issue was a perhaps a useful idea in its time however it followed a well established capitalist limited company business model. John Bird should perhaps be ashamed of what it became in the years after he founded it.
In many eyes the company has become a beggar’s charter. In some eyes it is a national disgrace.
The street folk remain poor and vulnerable.
“In many eyes”?
And whose eyes would those be?
Are these the same “street folk” who “remain poor and vulnerable”, or do we have a production line of them ready to abandon to the streets as others start getting their lives together?
If John Bird is “ashamed” of anything I feel he would have told us, for he seemed forthrightly honest.
I think you have a decent enough point Duncan (in hindsight). But to suggest that he should be “ashamed” is harsh. Incorrect, perhaps, but there is no shame in the very honourable intention with which the Big Issue was created.
Thanks Rico. Perhaps “ashamed” is a bit strong. Revisionist history will no doubt have a few takes on the episode. Thank goodness the Russian episode failed.
I worked for the Big Issue business David and have some insight into the cost of social businesses.
In “many eyes?” Ask the vendors what they think, that is if you can find any still alive after Bird’ and his cronies were done with them.
Having just returned to the Aberdeen area, following a lengthy absence, I am shaken to the core to read that anyone writing for Aberdeen Journals Ltd might in anyway mislead or misrepresent readers in any way whatsoever. My goodness, it seems like only yesterday that Chief Editor – Damian Bates, in response to the publication of the Leveson Report, declared boldly: “Newspapers like the Press and Journal provide one of the few platforms for the little man to take on the big institutions” and further claimed that the Leveson Report specifically praised regional newspapers ” such as the Press and Journal” Surely then it cannot be true that this egalitarian organ of truth and justice would put the interests of a powerful organisation, such as Trump International(wife included) before those of the “little man”.
As for the news that one of Bates’ Babes has indulged in plagiarism and that her recruitment to the Aberdeen Journals team may have been in any way influenced by her links to minor celebrity and her looks, i am speechless – well almost. Damian does appear to have something of a track record in appointing young and attractive, but regrettably not very competent, columnists but I have it on very good authority that rumours to the effect that prospective employees are required, as part of the interview process, to swing into Damian’s office, naked and atop a bright spherical object, singing “I came in like a bawling wreck” are simply the spiteful and malicious invention of unsuccessful applicants.
I look forward to seeing Damian proving that he is indeed the champion of the “little man” and not the incompetent and less than honest hack some may claim him to be.
I hope that some form of legal action or compensation will be sought against Mr Bates and Aberdeen Journals.
I now very rarely go into town, but when ever I passed a Big Issue seller they would not accept my very polite refusal to buy a copy. I have also been sworn at, shouted at and spat at by these people and the beggars.
Being sworn at and spat at is not nice.
Thank you Duncan for highlighting/raising this issue. IMHO, Aberdeen City Council is a very nasty local authority.
Not sure about “nasty” Sean. Uncaring perhaps?
I usually buy a copy, and frequently some of the sellers are former pupils now grown, and I am aware of the sometimes awful family circumstances. In the past one used to call our “I’ve kept your copy Mrs. Bothwell”! It is often too easy to be glib about ‘charity’. I just hope that my small contribution will, in some little way, help.
No comment Dorothy.
Absolutely spot on
I rarely use taxis to be honest.
At around £38 to travel to the airport from Inverurie and even more to reach the centre of Aberdeen the fares are hard to afford.
Many folk earn minimum wage. At around £6.40 per hour taxi fares are out of the question.
My disabled friends however often have to rely on them. My ill pals sometimes use them to attend ARI for treatment. My old mother used them when she could not climb onto a bus anymore.
I am sure that you mean well when you say that “The next act of lunacy that our city fathers have pushed through is that, by June 2017, all taxis in Aberdeen will have to be wheelchair accessible.”
Surely though you cannot be serious.
Fin, blaming the council for the Dons’ failure to raise building capital to fund Loirston by selling Pittodrie is what the club chairman and the press want you to believe.
Cove Rangers had had the lease for Calder Park for 12 years. They had a deadline for delivery of September 2012, less than two weeks after the council meeting of August 2012 took place. No work at all had been carried out. The council was not convinced that development was going to take place. After 12 years of inaction, was a possibility, especially given the missed deadlines. On valuable council owned (that’s me and other Council Taxpayers of Aberdeen).
Calder Park would have provided the Dons with the second access to Loirston required by Planning. The council has said that they could start building as soon as the second access was agreed but that having taken back the lease from a club which had done nothing with it, despite assurances, negotiations would now have to be with the landowners (the council) rather than Cove, who did not appear interested in delivering to the terms of the lease. As a Dons season ticket holder in common with about 7000 others, I am also a city Council Taxpayer. My hobby should not be subsidised by poor use of commonly-owned assets, especially in these straitened times. The council has also been clear that the second access via Calder Park can be negotiated but that those negotiations would have to be with the council rather than a promise-breaking Highland League club which has had no trouble in spending money on development of a playing squad whilst continuing to play at the outdated and barely-adequate Allan Park. Both former Councillor Kate Dean and the current leader of the Council administration opposition were/are representatives of the area and appear to have made no moves to persuade Cove to fulfill their obligations.
On the day that the council came to this decision, it also delivered on the senior coalition party’s manifesto commitment to abandon plans for UTG. The “referendum” was demonstrably “non-binding”. Could the AFC chairman’s unprofessional outburst have had more to do with his frustration at that decision and its effects on any development at Triple Kirks rather than the council’s decision to act on behalf of its taxpayers, aided by coverage and spin in a sycophantic local press?
Where is the seed corn capital for the Loirston development from the sale of Pittodrie?
Why have Cove Rangers remained silent?
Why were Cove Rangers allowed to hold the lease of prime land for so long with so little action?
A lie can travel halfway round the world before the truth has its breeks on.
Cant help see the similarities between this and the current row in the USA, amongst those who would benefit from “Obama care” the universal medical insurance…
I have to admit not being up to speed Steve. Can you say more about Obama Care?
I don’t think the taxi service in Aberdeen is very good, I’ve often had quite bad experiences with taxi drivers. This has included being short changed by up to ten pounds and the driver driving off with my shopping still in the taxi, I personally would call this robbery.
I was reading about Israel a couple of months ago. I discovered that despite it being a middle eastern country, it has the kindest human rights laws towards its own people and that many people flee/take shelter there from the surrounding countries and even from Palestine. I’m sure the politics must be quite complicated, I hope one day there will be peace.
Hi Sean, As someone who has spent some time in Israel, albeit a long time ago, and who may have more reason than most to harbour resentment toward sections of the Israeli security services, I find the on – going vilification of the state of Israel and the extremely biased and one sided commentary of the pro -Palestinian lobby to be unreasonable in the extreme.
Whilst I have no knowledge of those involved in the staging of the specific and forthcoming presentation mentioned here, I generally find the majority of those actively involved in the Palestinian cause to be intellegent and highly motivated individuals whose unwillingness to consider events from an Israeli perspective often leaves me searching for an explanation which does not come close to anti – semitism.
I will try to take the time to attend the forthcoming event in anticipation of a refreshingly fair and informed presentation and/or discussion.
Hi Bruce, Sean,
Let’s speak in abstract. Regardless of your view for the Israeli laws or the pro-Palestine activism, one fact remains: Israel is the occupier. Palestinians are being blocked, imprisoned, harassed and ill-treated at Israeli check points in the Westbank. In Gaza we don’t dare think about normal life having closed borders, lack of electricity and basic services.
I urge you to attend these events to understand the Palestinian point of view so that you are informed enough to make your own judgement. I would welcome your questions in the event.
Fin, I do you drive a saloon taxi?
Where do we start Suzanne:
You really should think of your sylphlike figure lass. All this bevvying up at Brewdog could wreck havoc with the waistline you know. Or am I just jealous because I can’t afford such luxury’s along with the fact I take exception to having to stand out in our balmy Aberdeen weather to have a wee puff?
Your comments in regard to unnecessary deer culls, support for animal charities and, most importantly, trying to help the less fortunate of our elderly are worthy indeed. It saddens me greatly that our elderly are held in disdain in those affluent times in The Granite City. We all had a granny, indeed without her none of us would be here, something conveniently forgotten by sections of society alas.
The Menie residents are also worthy of your support. No one likes a bully and Mr Trump can truthfully be described as such. Given he just pops over “The Pond” now and again, I can’t see why a wee wind farm should disturb him so and surely his golfers should be keeping their eye on the ball, not the windmills. No doubt oil supply boats and the Northlink ferry will have to be diverted in the fullness of time as they will, undoubtedly, detract from the golfer’s experience also. On a recent trip to Fraserburgh I noticed a single windmill either on, or adjacent to Trumpsville. Shock! Horror!! and there’s a fair few landward that must cause Mr Trump grave concerns also. What seems to be forgotten is, that in the fullness of time, those structures may help to power Trumptown and keep his leccy bills down. Just a thought.
There seems to have been a blizzard of “retrospective” planning applications submitted in regard to various deviations from the plans for Menie. Mere mortals would have been told to remove the structures built without consent post haste. Strange that such constraints don’t seem to apply to the super-rich. Perhaps the removal of retrospective planning applications from the statute book is the answer. That would solve any future problems. Either submit a full and accurate plan in the first place or don’t plan at all. The law of the land is supposed to apply to all also but seems to have been applied somewhat sparingly when it comes to our favourite naturalised Scotsman ( is there anything natural about the guy?)
Have a great weekend you voluptuous damsel.
Well thanks for the kind words Ron. I am putting on a few pounds, but I find running around Torry lighthouse and Nigg Bay once or twice a week helps, although I usually get stopped by the police who assume I must be a theif making a getaway on foot. The thing about quality brews, whether by the local team at BrewDog or other great crafters is that you don’t need to or want to drink gallons of the stuff, or at least I don’t. I genuinely love tasting and sipping the good stuff. Cheerio
And just think, had it not been for Sir Ian and cohorts, PVA could have had a brand new facility overlooking Union Terrace Gardens. It would have been occupied by now and hardly a dent in the public purse,
The Maybeshewill track you refer to is the absolutely fantastic ‘Not for Want of Trying’ which features the excellent monologue by Peter Finch from the film Network. Incidentally that was Maybeshewill’s 4th gig in Aberdeen.
Thanks for that – one of the problems of having a camera in tow to these things is the inability to make decent notes. 🙂
I don’t mind this idea, could be fun, but ‘to help create a new world record and to help put Aberdeen on the map for festive visitors is desperately shite.
In case anyone is interested, there is a debate (argument) going on about CPZs in residential steets in Bristol. Interestingly enough the charges for their permits are significantly cheaper than ours.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-23583231
Hi Rafat,
Unfortunately my time in Scotland is limited and I have an important prior engagement which I had overlooked and cannot cancel. I really did hope to attend the event and may still be able to do so, albeit only for a short time and this may be inappropriate.
I’m sure there are many issues on which we would disagree but many more on which we would most wholeheartedly agree. I should add that I was not seeking to be sarcastic when I indicated my anticipation of a fair and informed discussion and I’m sure it would have been a great pleasure to have met you.
Israel are undoubtedly the occupier in the West Bank though I think it should be acknowledged that they voluntarily abandoned their occupation of Gaza and were rewarded with the election of Hamas, an organisation dedicated to the destruction of the Israeli state, who refuse to accept the right of Israel to exist and, of course, incessant rocket attacks. I also think it is worth remembering that the Israeli occupation came about as a result of a war waged against them, on all sides, by forces who were unequivocal that their aim was the annihilation or expulsion of all Jews within Israel. I think the phrase Nasser used was “drive every living Jew into the Mediterranean” I do, however, acknowledge that much of what you say is an accurate description of daily life both in the West Bank and Gaza and that this is unacceptable.
It would, of course, be futile to try to engage in any meaningful or detailed debate on this forum and I apologise if you feel I have, in seeking to respond to the points made by yourself, put you in a position in which you feel bound to address aspects of my response.
There is, I am sure, little doubt that we both want a just and lasting peace for the long – suffering citizens of Palestine and the wider region and I hope I will have the opportunity to meet you at some time in the future.
I wish you well in your struggle.
Last night’s AGM comment that negotiations are continuing with the council over Loirston all but proves that the chairman spat the dummy over UTG at the council meeting and tried to conflate the two discrete issues, swallowed whole by the public, being misled by the local press as usual.
It’s still the worst possible place to build a stadium as far as Dons fans are concerned but that’s a different issue.
Pallas were originally a covers band playing the NE dance circuit as Rainbow, but when Ritchie Blackmore took the name, briefly became Gulliver in 75, until deciding on Pallas Athenae, then abbreviated to Pallas.
Very talented, very hard-working and Graeme’s Rickenbacker was the envy of every bass player in every band from Cummingstown to Cumineston to Catterline.
Good to see they’re still carrying the torch.
Ann Kramer’s “Land Girls & Their Impact” is a good account of the Winen’s Land Army, all the better for the inclusion of anecdotes and first-hand tales of the toil and good times from former members.
I also found Carol Harris’s Women At War 1939-45: The Home Front excellent source material for something I was working on. Wartime Britain by Juliet Gardiner has also been recommended but I’ve yet to get a copy to give me further insights.
Angela Huth’s romanticised but entertaining book is worth reading too. The film of the book, starring the delightful Anna Friel and Rachel Weisz is also a good bit of escapism.
Cheers David, will check these oot! Lumber jills and all that.
As somebody who has stravaiged through the Rothiemurcus Estate which has one of the largest areas of natural forest in Britain I am delighted to see that “Trees For Life” have got funding to carry on their good work at Dundreggan. Organisations like Trees For Life, The Woodland Trust and the John Muir Trust deserve all the help the can get.
Gweed job Trumpie wisna aroon fin they ploo’d up gowf courses durin WW2. Hivven kens fit he wid o made o a fyow pairs o Clydesdales pullin ploos teerin up his greens an fairways. He wid nae doot hae
complained tae Churchill.
Old Churchill would have fought Trump on the beaches Bob.
Aye Duncan,
There’s nae mony gyaan aboot nooadays like “Mandiba”
I guid point Bob. Suddenly everyone claims to Nelson’s pal though.
First of all, I would like to point out I am not taking either side of the RSPB or the British Feral Goat Research Group. I must say I dispute some of the comments in this article as unfounded and utterly bizarre! Firstly the grey squirrels… they are not Scottish Wildlife, they are an introduced species from North America, they are outcompeting the native red squirrels and are also the carrier of the usually data squirrel pox which is having a devastating effect on red squirrels, so if you really want to protect the real Scottish wildlife why would we let the grey squirrels push the red squirrels out. Secondly the deer. Well I agree the comment about the CO2 is ridiculous. But think back to a time when Scotland was home to lynx, wolves and bears. Large predators that would have lived in a predator prey equilibrium, less deer, less predators can be supported, more deer more predators can be supported. Wipe out the predators, the deer population explodes, with nothing controlling the numbers. Hence the requirement to manage the population. Deer have a notorious habit of eating saplings and stripping bark, let the deer numbers explode, the forests will slowly disappear. The same goes for the goat, they are not native species and as some say, have not always been a part of the forests at Inversnaid. There is also strong evidence to support the fact that domestic goats have also been introduced to the feral population. I’m not saying we should just kill all the goats. I think it would be great to relocate them, but that doesn’t solve the problem. There will become a time (quite soon) when the establishments willing to accept relocated goats will be saturated with goats, the population at Inversnaid will continue to breed and the relocated goats will continue to breed and then where are all the goats going to go. If Scotland had it’s full compliment of predators, how long would a small population of goats last. Also the welfare issue, yes animal welfare is obviously the most important aspect of this, and it will always be the most important. So why is everyone so up in arms about the goats. I didn’t see this much fuss about the Badger Cull, which was completely ridiculous, a waste of money and time. All the research suggested it wasn’t going to work, yet still it went a head. Where was the mass hysteria over that. I didn’t see Facebook pages attacking the badger cull. I didn’t see petitions being circled about it. Talking about thousands of badgers being mass-slaughtered, compared to controlling an introduced goat population.
All I’m saying is, the priorities in my eyes are somewhat wrong. Look after the NATIVE wildlife before the INTRODUCED animals.
Thank you for replying. You raise several interesting points, but to start with, your claim ‘you didn’t see this much fuss about the Badger Cull…’ is to me bizarre: the story made tabloids, broadsheets, magazines, television, news headlines, etc. etc. with people such as Dr Brian May pointing out the absurdities. The quantity of badgers involved was very large; but does the quantity make any cull less important? The SNH/RSPB want to cull 50% of a 60-strong herd of goats, and the Feral Goat Research Group would say this issue is very important; they would also probably stress that they are working to establish that there is an indigenous goat herd in GB. As to the migration of animals, sometimes caused by humans on purpose or inadvertently / sometimes caused by natural forces – does the origin of any species really devalue its right to exist? I’d say no. If you agree that ‘animal welfare is obviously the most important aspect of this’, then what is your issue with the goat cull being highlighted? As to the deer issues, the landowners/managers are claiming (with some evidence) that the SNH desire to cull huge numbers of deer does not support their own observations and measurements of deer populations. At Tullos Hill, a herd of deer had been in small (60 or so) stable numbers for over 70 years: half of them were killed in order for a Liberal Democrat pledge of ‘a tree for every deer’ to be realised: on a hill with flammable gas issues, radioactive waste in its past, little topsoil, and a rocky terrain on a rubbish heap: the trees are unlikely to thrive (they haven’t in the past and cost the taxpayer £43,800 for the prior attempt). The ins and outs of this specific cull had absolutely nothing to do with deer welfare. I would love to see the bigger picture of the SNH/Forestry Commission agenda when it comes to animal populations laid bare.
All animal species lives are valuable – the grey squirrel problem is man made as are numerous others all over the world. I cannot undestand the RSPB’s stance on this, whilst I appreciate that their primary objective is to protect birds surely not at the expense of any other species indigenous or not, especially when they have been offered an easy ‘out’, relocation is surely the better option.
Perhaps David Milne might get further if he were to change his name to Stewart. Clearly he’s the wrong kind of Milne
As ever,excellent piece of work. Gives pause for thought.
It is difficult to know whether to laugh or cry. Information concerning an investigation which never took place cannot be released for fear it may enlighten criminals in relation to methods of investigation and might undermine confidence in the front line of our system of Justice!!
I would argue that one cannot undermine something which does not exist. The world witnessed what was, in my view and the view of many others, the unjustified physical assault and arrest of two innocent civilians who were going about their lawful business in an exemplary fashion. Should there be information deemed to be unsuitable for release for fear that confidence might be even further undermined, the mind boggles at what this might be. Might there be evidence of secret torture chambers deep inside Queen Street with manacles, chains and racks complete with the names of Menie residents above them? Might there be photographic evidence of senior police officers baton – charging and using tear gas against Menie residents trying to return to their homes? Are there eye – witnesses who will vouch that the Chief Constable was seen flying over Menie in a Chinook shouting something about napalm and the morning air?
The refusal to release the information requested merely confirms what most of us already know.
Here is further info from John Robins of Animal Concern Advice Line, from a recent email – bottom line = 20 goats were culled :-
Many thanks to all of you who e-mailed RSPB asking them to suspend the goat cull at least until they had fully investigated all possible non-lethal alternatives, especially the offer from Scotland for Animals (SfA) and Hillside Animal Sanctuary to catch and rehome the goats. Special thanks to those of you who are RSPB supporters and told them you were not going to give them any more donations or cut them out of your Will unless they stopped the cull. I know that at least one person returned her RSPB Christmas raffle tickets saying she would not buy or sell them while the goat cull continued.
First of all the good news. At a meeting with SfA on Monday 9th December the RSPB agreed to fully investigate the possible alternatives to culling the goats. Congratulations to SfA and all of you who lobbied the RSPB and achieved this promise from RSPB.
Now the bad news. I’ve had a look through my correspondence with RSPB. I wrote to their Chief Executive on November 30th saying; “Do you not recognise that by killing animals you regard as pests you are little better than those who regard raptors as vermin and use lethal means to reduce their numbers? I know that some of your long standing supporters have objected to your cull of goats at Loch Lomond. Please listen to them and stop the cull now.”
On the 2nd December Stuart Housden, RSPB Scotland Chief Executive replied saying;
“Given that we have been making quite considerable efforts to explore alternatives, that there will be no stalking undertaken over the next few days and we will be looking at the situation again next week can I ask you to work with us on this and encourage your supporters to give us the time we need to find the best possible solution? My colleague Anne McCall and her team are handling this.”
On 4th December I asked Stuart Housden to cancel the rest of the 2013 cull and told him;
“ …. before I can ask our supporters to desist from lobbying RSPB on this I would need an undertaking that RSPB will suspend all culling at least until your discussions with Scotland for Animals, Hillside Animal Sanctuary and any other organisation offering a potential non-lethal option to the goat situation are fully investigated.”
Later that day Anne McCall of RSPB got back to me saying; “Until we have a workable alternative that process (the cull) will remain in place but if you or others can help us develop that workable alternative quickly then we will be in a far better position to review and possibly modify our management approach – obviously assuming the statutory agencies agree.”
I immediately replied giving several possible non-lethal options and ended by saying; “Again I ask RSPB to cancel the current cull and make time to fully investigate all the options.”
I think many of you will have received an e-mail from Anne McCall on Tuesday 10th December in which she stated that following their meeting with SfA on Monday they would be looking into alternatives to culling. She also said;
“The goat management work at Inversnaid to protect the internationally important site has come to an end for 2013. No further goat management is planned until September 2014. ”
At first reading I thought this was great news and that culling had stopped three weeks early. I asked if this was the case only to be told by Ms McCall that;
“It has ended as we have reached the target of 20 culled goats for this year.”
The RSPB were keen to get me to get you to stop protesting but they refused point blank to suspend the cull and not one goat was spared. I am very concerned that RSPB simply stepped up the culling operation to reach their kill quota before meeting with SfA to discuss the alternatives.
Another wee bit of good news. Animal Concern Advice Line is constantly dealing with culling, often by conservation charities and Government agencies. In recent years in Scotland all species of deer, grey squirrels, mountain hares and hedgehogs have all been culled by various charities and/or Government agencies. We even had to oppose a cull of wallabies on an island on Loch Lomond. Every day of the year seals and birds are being culled under Government licenses.
Last weekend our Trustees authorised me to establish a forum to try to pull together the knowledge, expertise and different organisations required to mount a proper campaign against the growing culling culture in Scotland and other areas of the UK. More about that next year.
Another whitewash, exactly what most people expected. Lies, lies and more lies.
I sincerely hope there is such a thing as Karma.
Well done Aberdeen Voice for an excellent piece of work.
Defo bring ikea to the north of Scotland as we miss out on all the bargains.it would be a massive success.
The Scottish Distant Islands allowance and that old chestnut, the London Living Allowance sound fine in principle until you realise that often they are actually an incentive for folk to apply for jobs in those high cost areas rather than a help to those already struggling with Aberdeen’s high cost of living.
Then of course the prickly issue of those on minimum wage and low hours contracts arises. Should they also benefit from the high cost living supplement?
If UNISON members benefit, who pays for the “Pay Equality?”
Lots of issues.
Surely if cops need to goto a solicitor to be advised if something is criminal or not they should not be cops ?
what cops are dealing with it, is it the 2 idiots who arrested the journalists ?
Maybe the cops dealing with this are keen golfers and hoping for freebie season tickets for trumps golf course.
whats happened with the video ? could it be put in the public domain or televised in a future documentary ?
Paul Murray
I’ve just had a short but sweet chat to Bruce Watson; he’s looking forward to coming back to play in Aberdeen. Expect amazing opening sets from STEVIE AGNEW, DAVE SHARP and SIMON HOUGH. There will be the favourites as well as material from the latest album, The Journey. Bruce sounded in good form, but is about to use his extensive experience of dealing with large crowds as he heads to Edinburgh to do some Christmas shopping.
Ah! But do the Shetland islanders want to go with an independent Scotland?
Buggered if I know Richard …
A lot to chew over Susannah. Enough to get the blood boiling. No bad thing in this weather. I recall stories of council officials having to lug home, probably by taxi paid for by the public, crates of whisky supplied by developers and the like. Given in a friendly gesture to mark the festive season you understand. That was a little before the time you were writing about. And properties at remarkably generous prices made available to the lucky recipient who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Friends help. Not much changes and regrettably not corrupt officials.
Was myself wondering lately how a religious festival came to be so tacky and shamelessly commercial. If in any doubt listen/watch news items on Christmas, should that be xmas?, and a successful one is where shops have taken more from our pockets than in previous years.
Oh it’s a sick old world.
Have a good one.
Always a pleasure to hear from Lena, hyena about town. I’m sure you can’t be referring to a property builder who sent crates to the city planners some years back, and had a hissy fit at the P&J when it got out. He apparently was stewing, and threatened to pull any further advertising from the P&J if such a story broke again. As to Christmas; am busy making things for people, and the television was thrown out the window long ago, rock chick style. Have a happy. See you at the UTG train halting (?). Cheerio
Got to agree with you both. £mas has never been my favourite time of year. The fundamentals have been long lost in the rush to make a quick buck. A sad old world we live in indeed.
All the best to all for 2014. With the present government in power the rich are guaranteed to get richer while the poor fall off a cliff.
Yes I agree, the sooner the SNP are voted out of power the better.
Excellent as usual. And I am still having a laugh over a second read of “Twas the night…..” I dont know how you keep the narrative rolling, but keep doing it. Have a restful Christmas! Casey Jones rules!
Fair gied me a laach
very apt for today’s conditions Mr Smith, and indeed the winds are stronger than the desire to successfully establish mature trees in quantity on Tullos Hill, and even mightier than Donald Trump’s desire to build a golf course right on the North Sea. Can’t wait to visit the course again soon. A very happy holiday to you and yours, Suzanne
An a Merry Xmas an Guid New Year tae yersel Suzanne
Just how Sir Ian has behaved.
So are you just angry about the size of it? Or the masses of content?
If it was a lightweight 30 page document summarising the main points of the aims of independence would you have been much happier? Or criticised that for not sufficiently detailing how things would likely work?
The negative tone of the article infers you are against independence but, like so many with similar opinions, doesn’t offer any counterargument, only dismissal of the content as ‘longwinded’.
Or, to summarise the article – “Independence won’t work because most Scottish people can’t or won’t read the book”
Bravo.
Not angry at all Andrew, just disappointed.
I’m sorry to say that I find this to be a rather poorly written, naive and tedious article written by someone who, in common with a large number of his unionist friends, appears to (knowingly?) miss the point of the independence debate.
So come on Aberdeen Voice, if you insist on publishing articles on what will be the most important issue for the people of Scotland during 2014 you’ll really need to raise your game way, way, above the level of this self-serving drivel.
Not sure where you get the idea of the writer being unionist.
What a terribly written article.
“If all 5.295 million of us Scot’s ordered a copy the English would no doubt be made to pay”…. I presume you are referring to the population of Scotland? Do you think that all people living in Scotland with voting entitlement are Scots? That’s a bit racist to suggest only Scots can vote. And might i ask where you get your figure of 5.295 million from? You think that perhaps all new born babies should order a copy? Maybe people under the age of 10 should get a copy? You think we need more than 1 copy per household? You think people can’t download it? And why would the English pay for it? It’s produced by the Scottish government. If the Scottish government didn’t pay for it and it came out of the UK budget (which it doesn’t), why would only the English pay for it? You are obviously of the opinion that Wales and Northern Ireland are part of England.
I would write further with regards to the anti Scottish message contained in this article but don’t feel it’s worth my time.
Shocking that someone would be allowed to publish such rubbish in the face of the most important issue Scotland has faced for decades.
[ Personal insults removed. Aberdeen Voice seeks to accomodate a wide range of views. We very rarely refuse to publish articles, and never on account of the socio-political views of writers. Comments on articles and views expressed within, as you have contributed, are equally welcome provided those focus on the content and don’t descend into insults and namecalling. Aberdeen Voice also exists so that writers ARE ALLOWED to be published, regardless of any particular persons evaluation of the resultant piece – Moderator ]
At least the piece has provoked some reactive comments.
Shouldn’t the para following the Forth Rail Bridge pic begin ‘On Macroeconomic Policy’ rather than ‘On Macroeconomic Police’?
Cheers Alex. It has been re-subbed following your comments.
Now let me see, I have posted articles in the Voice about multinational corruption, war, anti war, economics, history, wildlife, Marischal Square, parking in the city, body image, the Royal Mail flotation, country dancing, Crovie, witches, food hygiene, the Dalai Lamma, Fochabers and the First Zulu War, Belfast, Art Nouveau, windmills, renewable power, Camp Chic, Robert Burns, David Cameron, product placement, citizen photojournalism, the murder of drummer Rigby, badgers, the state of Aberdeen, race horses, the Sunday Post, Donald Trump, New Lanark, Brigadoon and even Oor Wullie.
Not to mention the sad issues such horse meat in your food and those sad folk who rely on state benefits and cannot now afford to keep a roof over there heads due to the politics of the land we live in.
Few readers have commented on the above 80 or so articles which is why it is such a joy to have provoked such a challenging response to this wee crit’ of Alex Salmond’s White Paper.
The Voice does not have an army of paid researchers as you will already know. The Guardian does. The BBC does. The Sunday Post does. Just saying, you understand …
Well done readers however for commenting on this vitally important issue which is obviously close to your hearts.
I find it sad however when “personal insults removed” has to be posted after a response by reader Mike. Reasoned argument and criticism are great. Insults might be less so.
Perhaps Mike would pen a piece about the “Scotland’s Future” White Paper for us all to read.
Thanks to Alex Salmond and his SNP, I am living in a freezing cold council house. So I’ve ordered a paper copy of “Scotland’s Future” to burn in the sitting-room stove, it might not provide much warmth but at least it will cheer me up.
Happy New Year to you all, (SNP exempted).
Sean, I hear what you are saying but have to wonder whether Alex or the SNP are to blame. The new year is of course very welcome of course. I blame the Tories usually.
Duncan,
It is regrettable that you appear to have been subjected to personal abuse for having presented a measured and legitimate point of view. Unfortunately, there does seem to be a rather extreme fundamentalist mentality within the nationalist argument. This is normally characterised by references to those who seek clarity as doom – laden unionists and traitorous lackeys of the English.
Your apparent scepticism is fully warranted as the answers we were promised, in the White Paper, have most definitely not been forthcoming and the references to future “legislation” are meaningless, not least because the present Scottish Government can not speak on behalf of future governments over which they my have no control.
Cheers Bruce.
Was one of rare occasions that thankfully seem to be becoming more common in Aberdeen, especially the Moorings, great night & great performances.
I repose far greater confidence in Tony Robinson than in Micky Gove!
I think Culloden would make an excellent golf course. I could see it generating in the region of 10,000 permanent jobs and £60 Billion of income to the Scottish economy.
i saw them at lemontree as part of a tv documentary for east coast trains a great venue and now a new adventure i saw them about 6 weeks ago in a pub in clitheroe for free my journey will continue i have done in excess of 50 gigs after being introduced to them in a coastal cabin whilst serving in the falklands in 1985 i have a special collection of posters set lists photos t shirts, drumsticks, cds vinyls, and my next concert is in dumfries on 26 jan meeting up with my old raf mate who intoduced me to big country in 1985 i have not seen my friend for 27 years this wil be our 1st gig together, a kind of reunion but also a thank you for my love with this band, that eve to get some i fell in love with whats next maybe a tattoo, big country is in my blood i could make a god interview and the band know me personaly be nice for me and steve for some newspaper publication, a great story and a long time apart for me 56 concerts
thank you paul
Thank you for your comments Paul; perhaps next time we’ll have a chat. They certainly inspire loyalty in their fans
Not thrilled with Iceland’s whaling and turning whales into beer either? Here are some wise words from Deborah Bonham’s facebook page which I saw on the same day this column was published: “A new year, a new petition! How on earth in this day and age are countries still whaling? It beggars belief what we are doing to this planet. Help convince Iceland that they need to stop and they need to stop NOW! Much love to all, Deborah xxx” Please sign.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/409/705/170/iceland-dont-kill-even-more-whales/?z00m=20700843
PS .
Iceland’s Public Health Authority says whale meal fails food regulations – whale beer production must end. http://uk.whales.org/blog/vanessawilliams-grey/2014/01/whale-beer-not-fit-for-human-consumption-in-iceland
You have to wonder if they are going to fall foul of government and national security requirements, by default, by reducing the geographical redundancy to a point where a single failure event in one important area (e.g., central control room) could effectively cripple the force.
Hi, I am a little concerned that you are mixing up the appropriateness of Kitchener being used to commemorate the first world war and the war itself. The Kaiser was in control of a militarised and belligerent germany/prussia. Some even argue that the Kaiser was insane. Whatever, had the Kaiser gained the resources of all of mainland europe the who knows what nightmares might have followed? Britain had no choice but to fight to prevent such expansion of germany.
How the war was prosecuted is open to debate but in the face of an entirely new industrialised war many experts believe our war leaders did the best they could.
For the record I am not in favour of Kitchener being used in this way and think there are others more deserving.
I can certainly understand your concern Alexander but am unsure about the notion that a militarised and belligerent Germany Prussia led by an insane leader was at the route of that conflict.
That the prosecution of the war led to mass slaughter is undeniable. Your assertion that Britain had no choice but to fight is debatable.
Who from that period of time would you like to commemorate coin wise?
Hi, thanks for your reply. I didn’t mean to suggest that the cause of the war was all germany/prussia. However once germany had started actions britain had no option but to react or germany would have had all of mainland europe’s resources to power it’s ambitions. Many of those european countries had their own “empires” and those foreign resources would also come under the sway of a greater germany/prussia and threatening britains “empire”, I cannot see how conflict could have been avoided.
No one wanted “mass slaughter”.
I have signed a petition to have Edith Cavell on a £2 coin. I consider all this “to do” to be about Celebrate or Commemorate? I choose to commemorate as celebration of war seems wrong to me.
I would be interested to know what the mound of powder was, I have seen this before (on the ground next to a garden) and wondered why someone would have put it there.
Cheers Alexander. Edith Cavell seems a very cool choice in my opinion. Can you post the link here please since I am pretty sure that other Voice readers will want to follow your lead.
Sad as that may be, the deer and most of the other wildlife will move back into the area. When I was a landowner it was always sad to see neighbours and so called friends shooting and trapping local wildlife in the mistaken belief that was their right to do so.
Bad karma perhaps but that is the reality of the often selfish and unthinking world many of us live in.
The Dalai Lama has words for this failing.
“I love my cats but I hate what they do.”
If you like New York so much you should stay there, your constant bitching about Aberdeen is wearing thin.
And please stop calling our city the Deen, no local would ever describe it as such.
I think this is it: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-british-treasury-issue-a-2-coin-with-the-face-of-edith-cavell-on-it?share_id=vTmejSeEDn&utm_campaign=share_button_action_box&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition
Thanks, the link works for me.
I prefer the good customer service that comes with shopping online.
I enjoyed reading this article, New York would be an amazing place to live. There was a diner called Florent that would have been nice to go to, but I think it’s closed down now.
Have to agree with much of what you say Suzanne. There is, however, one major difference between Aberdeen and NYC. One is a metropolis, the other a large town/small city, the funding of the latter heavily constrained by government. Now, if we only had a local income tax, instead of council tax, we’d probably have the best facilities in the UK, given the well above salaries commanded here and here a bouts. You’re comments on quangos are spot on though.
The argument about the tv licence fee rumbles on. While, like all large organisations, it has it’s failings the BBC has stood us in good stead for generations. The massive payouts to redundant senior staff were misplaced but the private sector has it’s fair share of those to – “Fred The Shred” springs to mind, to mention but one.
The “Beeb” has served us well over the years, exposing corruption and deviousness in government along with bringing to our attention bad practice in the public sector. It’s current affairs and documentaries, along with wildlife programming, are respected worldwide. You just have to watch US public service broadcasting to to see how lucky we are, and all for less than £3 a week!
Commercial tv is heavily constrained by the whim of advertisers while the BBC is free to report, unbiased, on those subjects which genuinely affect the populace and world affairs that sponsers would rather we know nothing of.
I, for one, don’t grudge the cost, comparable to a loaf of bread and four pints of milk, less than the price of a pint of beer in many establishments. Government would love to abolish/privatise the service, but we would be the losers in the long term. Masses of adverts and mundane programming or a quality service? Make your own choice.
Cheers Ron. Take your point. It’s easy to take issue with a publicly funded business though. The failure to protect vulnerable people from stage personalities is unforgivable though in my view as is today’s revelation that Auntie spends around £1m pa on hotel rooms in Manchester.
I could go on.
It damned well beggars belief that this is still going on! WHO has paid the bill for the latest “bold vision”? It wouldn’t be our couthie Sir would it? In whose pocket the P & J seems to nestle.
Onybody wi a grain o common sinse wid hae kent nae tae bigg on the flood plains near the River Don in Inverurie. Then again fan did ye last hear o developers using common sinse .
.
Guid pont Bob. Mind you, money talks.
Good news indeed. The Music Hall is sharing in the handout seemingly. I wonder why Aberdeen Arts Centre has been ignored.
I live probably closest to the river on Birch Drive than anyone else. I have to say that the water from the river would need to flood the whole of Inverurie before it came anywhere near my rear garden. My house stands several feet above the river. At least they won’t be building at the rear of me! My concern is the poor condition of the farm animals on the land at the rear, with dead lambs floating down the Urie and calves and sheep up to their necks in mud!!
Good you are safe Amanda, I hate seeing animals in peril also.
Hello Amanda
Do you find that you have had an issue with the flooding in the past two years at all?
Thanks
Chris Bell
“Plantation owners”, you mean poor farmers trying to eek an existence out of the land to feed their families.
Your fixation with Sir Ian is bizarre at the best of times, to try and make a mockery of his charitable trust for helping poor families in Africa feed themselves not only oversteps the mark but is sick in the extreme, how dare you write about something you know nothing about, have you any idea the good the trust is doing?
Perhaps instead of spending your money on holidays to America and on fad beer you might send a good portion of it to starving people in Africa, then you might be in a position to question others on the matter.
Bill, do you seriously think Ian Wood gives up holidays and alcohol in order to give to charity? There is a massive difference in asking someone with an unfathomable disposable income to give a small percentage of their money away than someone with very little, you surely understand that?
When a billionaire publicly suggests that the some of the lowest paid people in his organisation, in the riskiest jobs, responsible for the entire production, working for a fraction of the highest paid, should take a pay cut then people should ask questions.
Charitable trusts in the UK are used by wealthy individuals to avoid paying tax. I have no idea whether this is true in Ian Wood’s charity or not, and I would very much welcome a report from Suzanne on it (although I suspect that might be a bit much to ask!).
Hello Rico and all – you may be interested to know that I’m not alone at looking into the finances involved. In the mean time, this little snapshot from the Charities Commission doesn’t tell the full story – but I still think it speaks volumes. Draw your own conclusions https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-charity-register/charity-extract/?charitynumber=sc037957
Are you seriously trying to have a go at the man over the charity work he and his family do? A new low for you and the Aberdeen Voice if you are.
Is this all because he suggested regenerating Aberdeen and you didn’t like his plans?
Where do you imagine the income is coming from for this charity still in its infancy?
Not one word of appreciation for the good the charity is doing, just a look down your snooty nose at it, do you imagine those getting food parcels from the Someone Cares charity this week will be grateful? guess they’ll never know where the money came from as the Wood family trust don’t generally publicise the good they’re doing.
How easy would it be for the family to emigrate abroad and live a life of luxury without giving away a penny, in Aberdeen they give their charity almost £100 Million and still have people being snide to them.
Shame on you I say for being so shallow and blinkered, I for one would like to think him and his family for helping those less fortunate than themselves, the mind boggles at the comments on here, I’m glad I’m not as bitter as you.
I assume the YPI referred to is the same Youth Philanthropy Initiative referred to in the WFT website http://www.woodfamilytrust.org.uk/current-programmes/YPI-Page2.php . There is a great deal of money of the £55,000,000 or so which sits in the WFT accounts at stake here: £3,000 per winner. As the website advises “YPI School Finals: Each year, at each participating school, the YPI programme culminates in a show case event whereby students are given the platform to present upon their experience, and in their teams compete for a grant of £3000 to award to the small, local, grassroots, social service charity they have researched” – so in other words children compete against each other with the charities they shortlisted, and the charities spend time and energy, some going away with apparently nothing at all. Perhaps we could just put them all in a pit to compete for scraps?
It’s not really anyone’s business how much of my time and money I give to good causes locally and abroad, but I’d happily match the percentage of my time and money given to good causes against that of the WFT.
Keep digging that hole Suzanne, you’re really making a fool of yourself now.
The YPI scheme which runs in almost every secondary school in the Country encourages 3rd year pupils to get involved in local charities, the pupils visit the charity they have selected and get the chance to work with them, not only do they learn the charities work they then get a chance to raise awareness of their chosen charity in a one off debate.
The charity does no work towards this at all, it’s all the pupils work, the most deserving charity is then given £3000 towards the work they do.
I don’t know about you but I see not one negative in this scheme, from an education viewpoint it gives teenagers an insight into the problems others face, the bonus is the big winner but no one is a loser, many of the children continue to work for their chosen charity and this is supported by the scheme.
If you perhaps tried doing some research into the Wood family trust you’d see it not only helped smallholding African farmers but also many local charities, only in the last fortnight through the YPI scheme the trust runs £3000 was awarded to the Someone Cares charity in Aberdeen, that’s a local food bank to help the poorest in our community, this is one of many similar donations the trust makes through the scheme, all charities are selected through local schoolchildren participating in YPI events.
Of course this doesn’t fit with your agenda of running the man into the ground so why print it, no one wants to hear the good that any wealthy man is doing in the community.
Excellent article. Surely there will be more to come.
Local man does well and turns the family fishing supply firm into a global oil support leader, not only providing huge employment in Aberdeen and globally, in turn it makes him a very rich man, most would say rightly so for the gamble he took and the hard work he put in. The taxes his company make produce vast sums for the exchequer.
As he nears retirement he sets up a charity to give something back.
Aberdeen voice opinion, let’s dig deep and try and pick holes in an attempt to besmirch him and his family, blame him for the demise of the Rwanda rainforest in the process. It’s no wonder only the same 3 or 4 people comment each week, this site has turned into a joke, you certainly don’t speak for me nor I suspect the vast majority of all right thinking people in our great City.
Bill,
Sir Ian micht be a local chiel fa his deen weel, He micht be a billionaire, His firm micht provide lots o jobbies. His charitable trust micht be helpin fowk in Africa. Aat still disnae exempt the mannie fae scrutiny or criticism nor onybody else in a similar high falutin position fer aat maitter.
I agree Bob, I would also add that it doesn’t mean he can’t get praise when it’s rightly due, the article writer in her dislike for Sir Ian would never do this as it doesn’t suit her agenda, this is what I find distasteful.
Her reply on the YPI scheme in particular shows how blinkered she is, perhaps she’d be advised to speak to the children and teachers involved in the scheme before making wild assumptions.
No doubt you won’t agree, nor will the same regular people who reply, perhaps this is why more people don;t comment on these pages, anyone who disagrees is jumped upon, you only need to look at the guy who posted a link to a personality disorder page (and the mod who let it be posted) to see how biased the comment section is here.
Dear Bill, you are more than welcome to write a fact-based piece on Sir Ian Wood and it will be published. You do have a habit of stating your opinion as if it were fact when describing me or the moderators. If the comments section and the moderation were as biased as you state they are, one might wonder why we publish your many comments.
I’d add that every child involved is vastly proud of the work they’ve done with their charities, it instils a pride in them and goes beyond what could be learned in a classroom, perfect for kids soon to face the working World.
You go on running down the scheme though, it says a huge amount about you.
Sorry for the avoidance of doubt the £3000 is per school, every year, that’s a lot of £3000 cheques considering almost every school in the Country participates.
As for the vast amount of money in the trust, please remember the old adage, give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day, teach him how to fish and he’ll eat for his lifetime, this is the ethos of the trust, these things take time to set up and manage, it wouldn’t be prudent to just give away money as handouts, this charity is a forever thing and will be here long after Sir Ian has gone, keeping a healthy surplus in the infancy years is prudent.
Gosh Bill, I have rarely, if ever, witnessed such an emotional response to a satirical article. Of course, we are all entitled to our opinions and, similarly, to voice them as strongly as we see fit but the vehemence with which you have responded, and the language used, is, in my view, extremely unbecoming, particularly when it appears to have been provoked by, what is after all, a very narrow and relatively insignificant part of an informative and entertaining piece which, in my view, does the author great credit. Indeed your use of the terms ” fixation” “sick” ” new low” and “bitter” are not indicative of a balanced point of view. Personally, I greatly enjoy the weekly articles by Ms Kelly and admire her indomitable desire to provide an alternative to the sickeningly deferential Aberdeen Journals who have a tendency, not unlike yourself apparently, to canonize and grovel to “tycoons” such as Sir Ian Wood on a regular basis. Do you really think it is a credible and tenable position for Sir Ian to accumulate and maintain massive wealth from an industry and then complain when workers seek to make more money for themselves or do you think it is outrageous hypocrisy?
Unlike yourself, were I to make one small criticism of Ms Kelly’s article,it would be that the criticism of Sir Ian is, in my view, a little timid. This, after all, is a guy who was only too happy to hand out honorary titles to the most vulgar of all nouveau – riche billionares, apparenly as a reward for destroying a valuable and unique part of our countryside and destroying the lives of local residents for no good reason other than because he could. For this alone he deserves much more criticism than he has received.
Your reference to a “local man does well” and Sir Ian’s “family fishing supply firm” did make me laugh however. The little family firm which Sir Ian inherited and ran was a multi – million pound operation which maximised it’s profits partly due to working practices and conditions which, even by the standards of the day, were unacceptably exploitative. Such practices made for a seamless transition from fishing to oil as the majority of the fishermen, who had helped his father and himself to amass an already considerable fortune, had been employed as “casual labour” and therefore received no redundancy package or any of the other benefits which, even then, would normally have been paid to workers who had lost their jobs. Of course Sir Ian did not create this system. He, like any other brave entrepreneurial opportunistic capitalist, merely maintained and exploited it. Perhaps he would like to resurrect such a system for offshore workers thereby make life easier for large corporations.
Sir Ian Wood has been extremely vocal in telling us what is good for our city and has tried to force his own vision on a not terribly willing citizenry. In doing so, he has received the most biased press coverage seen anywhere in the world, outside of Putin’s Russia, since the arrival of the duly anointed vulgar billionare mentioned above, yet you appear to take great offence when a local writer has the temerity to rebuke him for his unseemly criticism of offshore workers seeking to earn more for themselves and their families.How very dare you!!!!
Dear Bruce, thank you for taking the time to make this comment; I appreciate it. And thanks are due as well to the slightly unhappy poster who made your comments possible.
I am guessing Bruce that you are not a relative of Sir Ian. Tally ho, cheerio, etc. Old Susannah
Alas no relative Suzanne. Sir Ian appears to hail from the tall, rich, gifted and successful Rubislaw Woods whereas I am surely a product of the short, down at heel, talentless, no – hoper Summerhill variety. Still at least he’s not bitter eh?
Without paragraphs that’s just too hard to read, sorry.
I know exactly what you mean Bill. It is so difficult to read and to eat humble pie at the same time isn’t it?
Meanwhile, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder
Excellent response to Bill Stephen’s diatribe by Bruce Wood. I did enjoy reading it. I posted a connection to Anthony Baxter on Aberdeen Voice FB page and a review of “You’ve been Trumped”. I do really like what Roger Ebert says..”These days the nobility has been replaced by billionaire bullies who continue to screw us serfs.” We certainly have a couple of them locally. So Mr. Stephen keep tugging that forelock!
And you keep tugging your forelock to the author here every week, no matter what rubbish is printed.
Not one word of appreciation from any of you for the charity work his family trust are doing, I’m Aberdonian born and bred, unlike most of the people on here, I for one am proud that a fellow man in my City is helping the poor of our World.
I’d hazard a guess you didn’t receive a food parcel this week courtesy of Sir Ian? Perhaps if you did you’d appreciate him more.
This rich equals bad attitude on here is bizarre, no doubt all posted from nice semi detached houses in the burbs.
Bill,
With the greatest of respect, your opinions might be more sympathetically heard if you refrained from insulting, labelling and making ridiculous assumptions about others. Some of your remarks here are not only bordering on the xenophobic but are, I assure you, factually incorrect.
The auld saying, “the mair you hae, the mair you want,” springs to mind. Sir Ian is no different from most large employers. They gain their wealth from the hard work of their employees, most of whom are simply treated as revenue earning units to be dispensed with the moment their productivity declines. It’s called “capitalism.” Sad old world we live in isn’t it.
I’ve never had a Limonnik berry, I wonder what it tastes like. I was quite upset at this video, the fur coat better be faux fur.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6RID82Ru-k
that is some video Sean – I too hope the fur is fake (bet it is). On the subject of BrewDog, they have a series ‘Hello my name is…’ which has included Ingrid, Sonja and Mette Marit – and now Hello my name is Vladimir. Each has a major berry infusion; cloudberries, blueberries, etc. My favourite was the Sonja until I tasted the Vlad. Once you’ve had Vlad, there is no going back. If it’s not back in the bar soon, it can be ordered online. (yes, I have shares -5 now – bought over time when I saved my pennies. I love beer, I love they way they do beer and their style. I love how they’ve changed the game and how they’re employing a couple hundred people.)
I saw the film “The Cove” about two years ago on LoveFilm, it is horrific what the Japanese are doing, but it is a film every adult should see.
I remember when Aberdeen City Council used an image of Annie Lennox in one of their promotional booklets for Ian Wood’s Square at UTG, they did this without permission also. In my opinion they are the worst local authority there is.
as for me, I remember being invited to come and cover the (excellent/creative/interesting) House of Annie Lennox exhibition at the art gallery. We were told we could take photos. Alas! As soon as I got back to my computer later that day, there were some IMO frantic messages not to use any of the photos I’d taken, as there was no permission for the show to be photographed. While that was something of an organisational shambles, someone somewhere in the city knew about copyright/intellectual property, as compared to the present. Watch this space – there are more such allegations emerging of photographers’ work being appropriated without consent. Anyone with such a story is welcome to get in touch.
I met Annie some years ago at an event with the royals. There was no sniffy “this is mine” image stuff to be honest. Her only comment was “you’se had better be good” as I recall.
As one who submitted an image to the Don exhibition without success I guess I have no real right to comment except to say that you reap what you sow.
were you part of the SURF group which put on the exhibition in 17? They worked together as a group for quite some time to make the show. What open show did you apply to, or were you part of the group? When you say ‘you reap what you sow’ I take it you are referring to the professional media people who published work without getting prior approval first.
Nae getting into this except to say I that my images are free for the use of the Voice.
The Voice doesn’t pay for images, artwork or writing; nothing used is misappropriated 🙂
Trust you are ok Suzanne. Not sure what you mean by “The Voice doesn’t pay for images, artwork or writing; nothing used is misappropriated :-)”
Hello Duncan – my reply is pretty clear; I myself was wondering why you needed to explain that your ‘images are free for the use of the Voice’ – everyone’s images are free for the voice. Since the story is about work being used without the creators’ consent given, it seemed to me sensible to explain that not only are your images for free for the use of the voice, but everyone whose work appears is unpaid, but credited, and gives authorisation for work to be used in advance.
I am one of the photographers listed above.
Until I read this article I didnt know that 2 of my images were used nor which ones they were.
I was only told of the existence of this booklet by one of the other photographers.
🙁
Great article!
With the advent of digital technology many more are creating, using and sharing copyright works and awareness needs to be raised to help users ensure best way of dealing with this in the circumstances to avoid misunderstandings and upset to rights owners and even potential lawsuits (see http://www.bllaw.co.uk/services_for_businesses/intellectual_property/news_and_updates/no_innocent_infringer_hoffman.aspx. Charities and non-profits cannot assume they are exempt from or do not need to consider copyright legislation!).
There is a great deal of free advice and information out there on ensuring clear agreements are in place, rights protection, copyright, licensing and how to grant limited rights to share e.g. images/photographs online whilst also protecting and retaining other rights (see http://www.creativecommons.org licences).
Own-it is a fantastic organisation for anyone producing creative work and photographers can join http://www.own-it for free and access their fantastic podcasts and fact sheets which cover many subjects including “Making a living from photography!, “Keeping it covered – licensing for photographers”, Photographing public spaces” and “I’m a photographer – what do I need to know about IP?”
#copyrightawareness is increasingly important in the digital age and anyone wishing to using third party works may be putting themselves (or their employers) at risk if they fail to check such use is authorised or licensed. Leaders and managers need to assess risks and ensure awareness is raised among staff.
The UK Intellectual Property Office (www.ipo.gov.uk) also has great free tools and information for learning about and understanding IP.
I agree with the comment above and I am happy to see the article going viral online.
I would like to add another useful sources of information’s, which could help those affected to claim their deserved compensation for the illegally used images.
http://bit.ly/1nrO9Uo – This guide have many good tips and examples, which I used to get the compensation when The Seventeen gallery founded by the Aberdeen City Council used my image without my knowledge, permission and appropriate payment.
http://artists-bill-of-rights.org/ – The Artist Bill of Rights “promotes the adoption of a set of ethical standards for competitions and appeals to which creative works are submitted”
On this site you can find many really helpful guides on how to distinguish fair competitions from those which are exploitative and damaging for the creative industries.
Those guides are very useful for both: the creative’s and the organisers.
Compensation:
If you aren’t sure what are the current prices for the use of photographic content you can have a look at this websites:
http://www.londonfreelance.org or http://bit.ly/1bukmur – treat them as a guides to calculate the scale of the compensation. As you aren’t a stock photographer and your pictures are unique and wasn’t offered to thousand possible buyers- actually they weren’t offered for sale at all- you may probably consider to set up the prices bit higher than those on the Getty or Freelance Fee Guide website.
I mentioned the issue of the competitions above as this is something what needs to be brought to the public attention as well.
Aberdeenshire Council and Be Part of The Picture are running a photography competition called BELONGING TO ABERDEENSHIRE which isn’t looking great when it comes to the rights and benefits of those who are submitting their images.
It has come to my attention that the T&C of the BELONGING TO ABERDEENSHIRE are in a direct opposition to the aims and mission of Be Part of The Picture. Those aims are:
“The Be Part of the Picture programme aims to build local economies and community pride through promoting the culture and creativity of Aberdeenshire.
Belonging to Aberdeenshire is one of the ways the programme is engaging with local communities…”
Excerpt from the BELONGING TO ABERDEENSHIRE T&C:
“As a condition of an image being awarded the Winner in its category, successful applicants will be expected to:
• Assign rights in connection with the image, without payment, to Aberdeenshire Council so that the image can be premiered in a book to commemorate the Belonging to Aberdeenshire project. This will require a guarantee from the photographer that the image will not be published or shown publically before the Belonging to Aberdeenshire book is produced (Summer 2014) ”
“As part of the project we would like to invite you to participate in a competition that will culminate in the production of a photographic book showcasing places in Aberdeenshire’s landscape and environment…”
Rest of the T&C and other documents from which I sourced the information above could be find here: http://bepartofthepicture.com/tools-resources/resources/
I guess that one of the purposes of the planned book is to attract the investors and visitors to the Aberdeenshire- therefore I am very surprised why the contributors aren’t offered a fee for the use of their images in the book and their rights are to be taken away.
It is highly unethical to look to obtain a full copyrights from the creators of the images which would be used to promote the region. In my opinion this isn’t a best way to build local economies and community pride and for sure not the best way to engage with the communities.
By obtaining a full copyrights to the submitted images they are not giving the possibility to its authors to use them in the future and to benefit from them. I think this would damage a local economy rather than create one. It will also discourage professionals like myself to take a part in the activities organised by ACC in the future.
I contacted Artists’ Bill of Rights and asked for their opinion. One of their members had a look at BELONGING TO ABERDEENSHIRE rules and wrote back to me saying this:
“Dear Blazej
It is rather strange that Aberdeenshire Council feels that it is appropriate to expect hard-pressed creatives to give up their rights and income to aid the promotion of Aberdeenshire. I wonder if their council employees are being expected to work for nothing too. May I suggest that you point them to the ABoR website. There are helpful guidelines designed to assist organisations such as them to run photographic competitions that do respect the rights of creators.”
To my knowledge there is plenty of other ways in which you can run a competition in non-exploitative manner. Aberdeenshire Council could perhaps look for a different type of the license which could be beneficial for all involved. It is highly disappointing that Aberdeenshire Council officials chose the easiest and most damaging way to run this competition. As a Council-funded body, I would have thought that they would be more careful to follow ethical standards, especially considering that Aberdeen is branded as a Fair Trade City.
I would like to also highlight that one of the Aberdeenshire Council activities was already described on Solas: New Photography in Scotland magazine: http://scottishphotography.org/articles/a-photographic-opportunity/
I believe that by bringing those issues to the attention of the public and highlighting what could be improved I am helping Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire Council’s and the creative’s living and working in the region. I hope that this would help to create a better environment for the people who they are aiming to support.
I hope that the Aberdeen City Council officials are reading our comments and taking them into consideration- I would be very worried if that’s not the case.
All Russia have done is outlaw promoting homosexuality to minors, I dont get what the big deal is? Most response`s are more marketing ploys than any real protest? I still dont get it 🙂 is it illegal to be gay in Russia? On the news I see gangs of ppl going around beating up gay ppl in the street, but isnt that a seperate issue? Nobody ever got beat up in this, or any other country for being gay?
I have no issue with Gay ppl, whatever floats your boat! but whats the big deal?
Hello John, I’ve attached a link or two which spell out the problems in depth. The government has painted legislation with a very broad brush for people in ‘non traditional relationships’ and the possibility of having children removed from such ‘non traditional families exists for one thing. The government seems to be fomenting an anti-gay movement. No one obviously should be beaten up in any country for their sexual orientation. Do have a look at these links for further info on this issue, but people are being denied basic human rights. Thanks for your comment
http://www.globalequality.org/newsroom/latest-news/1-in-the-news/186-the-facts-on-lgbt-rights-in-russia
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23604142
Cheers Bob. Guid stuff indeed.
Would you even have an opinion on the Menie golf course if it wasn’t a rich well known person behind it? I respect how he’s turned some ugly scrubland into a World class course, I don’t play golf but fair play to the guy.
Now a real crime is away to happen with the wind turbines being plonked on our coastline, imagine if Mr Trump wanted to build them, the local activists would be up in arms as would this publication, because he opposes it they say not a peep, that tells me all I need to know about their agendas, hypocrites going on about the environment when it comes to a golf course being built there but nothing said about this.
I honestly despair at the mentality of some people, they’d rather cut of their nose to spite their own face.
3 homes were slightly affected by the Trump course, we never heard the end of it from the local lefties, the WHOLE village of Blackdog opposes the windfarms and will be directly affected by it, not a peep.
I’m not even going to start on the cost of these heavily subsidised eyesores, I’m not even going to mention the REAL damage they will do to the environment and marine life, I’m just pointing out how ugly some people and their personal agendas look in this whole affair.
While the AV welcomes all debate from both sides of the fence on any given subject. I feel I must point out 2 innacuracies in your comment.
Firstly the whole of Blackdog village was not against the windfarm as such. They were against the building of the electicity substation on the grounds it presented a health hazard because of possible asbestos disturbance. The Aberdeenshire Council agreed with them and turned down the application to build the substation purely on these grounds. Nothing to do with whether or not the windfarms would have spoiled the Blackdog villagers view.
Secondly “3 homes were slightly affected by the Trump Course.” Clearly you have NOT spoken to the families concerned otherwise you would have found out just how badly they have been affected by Trump and his cohorts..
I also cannot understand how you can still show support for a man who in an interview with The Irish Times said that the development of windfarms was a disaster for Scotland like Lockerbie.However perhaps on this point I am willing to concede you might have not known about this as it was not reported in the Trumpophile local rags{what a surprise} yet when the article appeared in the Scotsman it caused anger among it’s readers who took to the web to condemn Trump for uttering what most people would describe as a crass and insensitive remark. I would point out that other
stories about Trump have appeared in the Scotsman, the Herald and Sunday Herald and on the Internet which the “P&J” and the “EE” seemingly were unwilling to publish.
Bob,
I can assure you the Blackdog village is united in its opposition to not only the sub station but the entire project, who in their right mind would want these damaging things scarring the coastline.
I like many enjoy watching the marine life that comes near our coastline here, do you know the effect these uneconomic things have on the likes of Dolphins and Whales?
I’m not sure about your fixation for the local press, I never buy them nor read them so can’t comment.
Can I ask you Bob, if Mr Trump had never came to our area do you believe the stance towards the windfarms would be different from our local activists?
hello there Bill Stephen. Glad you enjoy watching the marine life that comes near our coastline. Kind of how I feel about Nigg Bay and the Torry coast. Cheerio
“The trouble with wind farms is that they have a very large spatial footprint for a piddling little bit of electricity. You would need 8oo turbines to produce the output of a coal-fired power station.”
Sir Martin Holgate, Chief Scientist at the Department of the Environment of the British Government.
Bill,
I meant to give a prime example in my previous comment of Trump’s hypocrisy and the local papers determination to protect Trump’s reputation at all costs.A few years ago the local papers were full of The Donald’s support for expansion at Aberdeen Airport yet failed to report that Trump was a vociferous opponent of the building of a second runway at Palm Beach International Airport on the grounds that the noise and pollution from the planes taking off from this new runway would affect his nearby Mar-a-lago estate and members- only beach club. Similar tactics to that which he has employed against windfarms which he claims shall spoil the view from his Menie development despite it being said that the turbines shall be close to one and a half miles offshore and not ON our coastline as you suggest.
The myriad of offshore supply boats and other vessels anchored at any one time in the bay pose a far more visible intrusion in my opinion.
Bob,
With the greatest of respect you didn’t answer my question.
Bill
The WHOLE of blackdog is not against the wind turbines. i have friends who live in blackdog that would benefit from work for these turbines.
If you think so much of marine life at blackdog why don’t you make yourself useful and go dig up all the oil thats polluting the area for the last 20 years.
Ps – some years ago someone wanted to give me info on the pollution and the politics behind the scenes. They abruptly changed their minds. I’d love to hear from anyone (in confidence if they wish) about the serious pollution issues there
Paul,
What work?
Once these eyesores are up and running not one local job will be created.
I can’t believe that people really want these things scarring our coastline and damaging the marine life, the reason we don’t hear any opposition to them is down to one thing, Mr Trump doesn’t want them, I just find that a bizarre stance to take, the two things are not inclusive.
I read on another forum someone saying he wouldn’t be surprised if Mr Trump was actually behind the wind farm, I’m not into conspiracy theories but would not be surprised at all, what chance of something like this happening here without it being hugely opposed, he would have played a blinder if true.
Dearie me Suzanne, have you no compassion in your body? The poor man has invested millions (so we are told) and created thousands of jobs (or was it dozens?) and his little venture might cost him dear in the long term. Such a shame.
Never mind, if the expansion of Aberdeen Harbour goes ahead we’ll have “real” jobs, with excellent wages that will actually benefit the area in real terms. Will kinda spoil my leisurely strolls along The Coastal Path but, hey ho, rather see folk in work contributing to a new, independent Scotland and the big windmills in The Bay will help keep the lights on to.
I can’t fail to agree with all you say. Aberdeen is not over-run with beggars, as some would have us believe. Stronger legislation is simply unnecessary.
You correctly pinpoint that many of these individuals have mental health issues. Given one in four of us will have mental health issues in our lifetime and the fact that NHS services in that regard have been deprived of adequate funding for generations, the situation can only get worse. The near collapse of services at Cornhill Hospital in recent times due to the increased workload and staff shortages rather proves the point.
Each time I pass one of those individuals reduced to begging I think to myself, “there,but for the grace of God go I.” A change of heart on this issue by certain sections of the community would not go amiss, Councillors included.
I’ve spoken to two homeless people this week; the Council doesn’t seem to want to accept its responsibility in homing and feeding those who need it – and who should have protection under the law. Some argue that there are ‘professional’ beggars, but surely our professionals are able to tell whether or not someone is in need of food, shelter and safeety? Outlaw begging? fine – once you have homed those who need it – and help them get back on their feet
Ron,
Unfortunately she opposes the harbour expansion as well, rare newt or something, I forget.
So no let up in the anti everything (but the really damaging, uneconomic turbines and brewdog) mantra.
I think i`ve got it 🙂
you wont like my reasoning tho`, so will try to put it in a way that doesnt offend 🙂
Consider this scenario,
There is a Gay couple living next door, they seem/are nice ppl, they have a pet dog, they always say hello, and christmas cards are exchanged each year. The world is a happy place and everything seems/is normal. They are just another couple journeying through life best way they can, same as you.
If a Russian mob was to turn up trying to cause conflict we would all be the first to rush in and help defend them yes?
Great,
Now what if they started marching up and down the street with a megaphone telling you how great life is being different every other week, Still rosy?
When your Straight, gay ppl are easy to get on with but some of them, and I believe a small minority, feel the need to continually validate their sexuality and this can be tedious, in fact I think the “market” may be saturated
Isnt this the line being held by the Russians Gov? I`m seeing, being gay is fine, why not keep the noise down a little 🙂
Hope this doesnt offend anyone.
I cant defend removing children from loving homes tho`.. :/
I find this article, inaccurate and offensive.
Well, unless you elaborate, that comment is pointless.
Thank you Suzanne for yet another entertaining reminder of how planning laws, local and national democracy, protected status of our most valuable and unique natural environment and the human rights of our fellow citizens were sacrificed for absolutely nothing. An under – used golf course, soon to be re-named Atlantis, will be all that will remain to remind us of the folly of the celebrity – struck politicians who bought the illusion and the fool’s gold offered by Trump.
That Trump played at building skyscrapers during his childhood suggests that Messr’s Milne and Spence might have played similar games with houses and hotels during their formative years. I wouldn’t wish, however, to hazard a guess at what Willie Zanker, or even Willie Stephens for that matter, might have played with.
I’m guessing Willie Stephens was playing wth himself everytime he sees trumps name on here.
perhaps he was – a quick game of solitaire or similar – good observation, one which crossed my mind
Same old names week after week rounding on anyone with an opposing view, of course If I attempted to abuse others it would never be published, quite rightly so, seems the same rules don’t apply in reverse.
Not one argument disputing me saying if it wasn’t for Trump opposition of the wind farm would be widespread, instead silly childish digs,it says a lot about this publication, Aberdeen voice indeed.
Refreshing to read an article which addresses the issues around the narrow subject of begging, including it’s various causes,but which also refers to the dangers of deep divisions which can lead to the persecution of minorities. All the more enjoyable when provided by a clearly well informed source.
I have no idea is the answer to your question Bill. Perhaps some would some wouldn’t. You had better ASK the people who you class as “local activists”. Are you speaking about all the people in the Aberdeen and NE. area. who are NOW against Trump because if you are then I think you shall have a helluva lot of people to ask. I personally know a number of people who were pro Trump at the beginning but have completely changed their mind not because of Trump’s stance against windfarms but because of his business ethics and his treatment of the Menie families. My fixation with the local press as you put it is purely down to the fact I used to work for them when they were still highly respected publications. It saddens me greatly to see what the “P& J” in particular has become-A mouthpiece for Trump and other big business concerns in the N.E. The AV tries to give the other side of the story.If you don’t like what people write fair enough-that’s your choice but whether it is your intention or not you come across as someone who sees those who are anti -Trump as some sort of left wing low life who are against Trump simply because he is rich. His financial situation is immaterial. It’s his actions and steamrolling tactics since he came to the NE which upset folk.
Not completely sure what your point is Jonathan but I’m sure you mean well. No matter what the council or indeed any other body do, there will always be folk who live on the margin.
John Bird, Tricia Hughes and Mel Young did little for the homeless by “allowing the Roma’s” to sell the paper.
Sadly I was part of this process in Scotland and I am often troubled by what we did.
Rather than arrest or trivialise street beggars, I wonder if a better approach might be to bung them £100 pw just to stay off the streets.
I’m more than happy to dispute what you have to say Bill but you declined to engage with me last time, apparently because there was insufficient space between paragrahs for you, but I’ll try again.
To begin with, your posts have been abusive, particularly toward the author, from the beginning, so you deserve everything you get and more. You have made a whole range of non evidence based assertions and allegations based, in my opinion, on a combination of ignorance, paranoia and inability to identify or understand the relevant issues.
Your so called “argument” that there would be widespread opposition to the wind farm, were it not for the Trump opposition, is simply another of these wild assertions which include no logical basis with which to engage in rational debate. Your insistence on relying on a clearly prejudiced and warped instinct rather than any form of informed or intellegent opinion is symptomatic of your apparently incurable cerebral malaise. In short Bill, you’re just not very bright.
Should you feel up to providing any logical, rational or evidence – based argument, at any time, please do not hesitate to share it with me and I will be pleased to help you out.
This is advertising by another name – “Social Media” etc . Why is the Voice advertising beer?
Nice one Bob.
Interesting that the man both withdrew and applied for a golf course in the shire in the week prior to the wind farm decision.
As at 16/2/14, No apologies / offers seem to have yet been made to the photographers.
as at 20/2/14 some of those involved have received letters of apology – more information on this later
very fitting goodbye and good riddance poem Bob 🙂
I must say I’m glad to see the back of him, he has caused nothing but grief since he first stepped off of his private plane. It was bad enough that he destroyed a beautiful, living, eco system, but it now appears that it was all for nothing.
I bet Mr salmond feels like a bit of a twat now!
I can only wish Ireland the best of luck.
I absolutely hate Alex Salmond and his SNP for allowing Trump to damage my homeland. Like many Scots I will never vote for them or for Scottish Independence because of this.
I am curious as to how Trump will respond to the modified wind farm development about 5km from his Irish Doonbeg course? He cannot say he didn’t know about it (he would be a fool if he did) but if he is happy to let it go ahead without complaint, then it will prove that his complaints about the offshore Aberdeen wind farm were just posturing.
As Martin Ford says, the job creation potential was grossly overstated. the hundreds and houses and hotel were to pay for this project, now they are not going ahead (apparently), Mr Trump will be severely out of pocket. Will he have learned anything? Doubtful. The exit strategy seems to be to sell off land for housing development to the highest bidder. Given the planning permission for housing was linked to the other developments, let’s hope Aberdeenshire blocks this. Enough damage has been done.
“Trump” and “pull-out” – They should never be combined in ANY sentence. The mental image is just too horrible!
Disagree … If Donalds old man, Granpa Trump had ‘pulled out’ the world would be a far more fair and harmonious place 😉
This is a well written, thoughtful and informative article. There are many humane alternatives to begging than criminalisation. There would be no need for begging if every citizen was provided an unconditional basic income. http://basicincome2013.eu/
What’s Donald Trump got in his hand.
The whole world apparently Sean 🙂 … No, it’s half a golf club … he lost the ither half when a turbine chopped it in two …. apparently he only just managed to get the club between the blade and a sparrow in time tae save the wee thing. Rubbin his hands noo, a £2,000 bill is reportedly on it’s way tae the RSPB for services rendered in the interests of preservin wildlife … and anither bill for a new set o’ golf clubs 😀
Ford, the edjits that wanted to destroy Union Terrance Gardens, the bams that supported the wind farms, a lack lustre, lazy council (who has done NOTHING in 35 years to bolster the European oil Capital) and other varied neeps who think that Glass and Concrete is the way forward – you collectively are the true enemies of the people.
Your pathetic backward thinking has reduced this city to a JOKE.
Trump spent MONEY.
The other edjits that wanted to destroy Union Terrance Gardens, again for MONEY.
The true enemies of the people in the lack lustre, lazy council (who has done NOTHING in 35 years to bolster the European oil Capital) and other varied neeps who think that Glass and Concrete is the way forward – you collectively are pathetic backward thinking neeps that has reduced this city to a JOKE.
Probably.
Interesting article, having been registered homeless for 2 years, its not an good place to be in, you feel insecure, worthless and have what is sometimes refereed to as a feeling of anomie or normlesness. It was after a nervous breakdown I ended up in such a predicament and can happen to ‘anyone’. Cornhill Hospital put a roof over my head till I was well enough to be discharged, and even then I had to wait in the ward or mainly at my dads for a year extra for A.C.C. to house me, mental health patients are not a priority in the minds of those in such positions of power and would rather brush the lot of us under the carpet. Begging was something i was fortunate enough not to need to do, but know some of the beggar’s in Aberdeen that I talk to and share smokes. Its terrible to see, I don’t get it in a City with so much potential and it does have the means to help, it turns its back on those in need with out good reasoning. ‘Why is this happening?’ Surely the Police too have better things to do than pick up beggars of the street, though could be a step in the right direction if legitimated in a much more positive manor as said. The Homeless are vulnerable and need our help, not locking up in my humble opinion…
Great that this has improved, when I last saw it in 2007 it was a pretty awful spectacle. Mind you the acoustics in the Music Hall may have been unhelpful. Then it consisted of an amateurish caste with poor lighting and choreography to boke for. Again, great that it has made the grade. Nice review and good images.
Cool Bob.
Sean,
Sadly the other main parties were as much in favour of Trump as the SNP were. Jack McConnel as Labour First Minister made Trump (and some of his minions) Global Scots for their contribution to Scottish Tourism and LibDems and Tories were vocal in their support.
And you’d be hard put to find one of them saying ‘we got it wrong’.
Hi Debra,
You are right to state that the other parties were in favour of the Trump proposal. You are also right to say that the process was kicked off by Jack McConnell and that all parties should accept a degree of responsibility. What cannot be denied, however, is that the SNP Government intervened in an unprecedented and undemocratic manner and exploited a technicality, that is the technicality which they discovered allowed for an application to be “called in” only if the calling in process was implemented prior to the applicant receiving formal written notification of the refusal. This meant that they had to move quickly and my goodmess didn’t they just?
To be honest, there is nothing wrong with a rich landowner, even one as slimy as Trump, making an application to build whatever they see fit on their land, and a golf course, particularly one which might bring tourists and employment to the area, does not, on the face of it, seem like an unreasonable proposal. The real issue here is that the applicant sought to build on an SSSI, which was contrary to the Local Plan. This meant that, even if they had wanted to, the Committee could not grant permission to proceed. Indeed, as I understand it, there was an initial motion moved to refuse the application and only two amendments, one to defer to give the applicant the opportunity to amend their application excluding the land within the SSSI and another, quite bizarrely, to defer the decision to Council officers to make the decision instead of the Councillors. The second amendment was defeated on a vote leaving a choice between deferral and refusal. Given the strident stance taken by the applicant to the effect that it was their way or no way it is hardly surprising that the Councillors voted, in accordance with normal procedure, to refuse, thereby giving the applicant the opportunity to reconsider and resubmit.
Within days, a very private meeting was held between SNP Government First Minister Salmond and the applicant, following which the technicality was very quickly identified and exploited by the SNP Government on behalf of the Trump organisation. Yes, all parties were in favour and none of them come out of this with any credit but only one First Minister and one party took the decision which, in my opinion, makes a mockery of our so called democracy and reveals clear corruption at the heart of Government.
I have no party political allegiance but only the SNP rode roughshod over local democracy and only the SNP led a bullying billionaire to believe he was bigger than an entire nation.
COYR
To be fair, I think the ref had already marked Celtic’s card after a couple of ‘meaty’ challenges went flying in before the sending off. The red card itself could have gone either way. It could be argued that Pawlett was actually running away from goal and that van Dijk was neither the last man or had prevented a clear scoring chance. I have to admit to being somewhat mystified about Aberdeen’s ‘tactics’ after the restart. They started knocking the ball around the back, inviting Celtic to come at them. I had a feeling that this might prove to be our downfall and it very nearly was. At times, the Aberdeen players looked like they’d never seen a ball before, let alone be cruising at 2-0 with an extra man.It all made for a very nervy second half and Tate looked out of his depth at times, so it was no surprise….nay, it was a RELIEF when he was substituted. Logan too deserved to be hooked. I felt he did okay in the first half but looked jaded in the second. The timely substitutions made a huge difference and most likely were the difference between taking one point or all three.
Fabulous, what a web site it is! This website gives helpful facts to us,
keep it up.
Martin Ford more than deserves a chivalric order (and a senior one at that), for all he has had to put up with, from the Trump Organisation and Aberdeenshire Council. He is a very brave, honourable and decent man.
he’s a enemy of the people, a running dog who puts ideas and dogma before people and jobs. Man should be put on trail.
You’re talking about Donald Trump, right?
I can sympathise with the shock and horror of finding out that phone-interception was in fact illegal, but still mystified by the thinking behind treating an ex-con to a lunch at the RAC club in Pall Mall with the intention of offering re-employment?
Ha ha, you wouldn’t say nasty. They are a bunch of elitist morons who just steam roll anything they want through. The residents of Garthdee should ignore all tickets and let the court costs mount up. RGU should not have been allowed to build up here. Yet again nothing for the kids to do except take drugs. Which is what they do around here. Total joke this city from Garthdee to the Airport, what a laugh.
Your article contains an error, the gardens referendum was not split down the middle, the yes vote in favour of the City gardens project got a clear majority, if the yes vote get a similar majority in this years referendum I’ll be over the moon.
I completely exaggerated this result, and I am heartily sorry. Those in favour of the granite monstrosity numbered 52.4% in the final vote. Those who wanted to keep their common good land, the only green space in the city centre without tombs in it, numbered 47.6%. As you can see this is nothing like being split down the middle. Mea maxima culpa. (What of the postal votes which allegedly arrived too late? What of the votes sent to residential care homes which never seemed to get to the residents? More in a piece of mine called ’10 reasons the referendum is invalid). Cheerio!
While there are so many nice things I like about the French and their beautiful country, Allard seems to think Brigadoon is an actual place.
I just read your article, it contains not one valid reason why the vote shouldn’t have stood.
Sour grapes springs to mind.
You appear to doubt the people of Aberdeens ability to think for themselves, as in the independence referendum the no side used plenty of scare stories, bankrupt the City, flooding issues, years of disruption, these appear valid to you but the positives get discredited.
It would be nice if sometimes you opened your mind to the possibility you might be wrong. I don’t think there would be one scenario where you would have accepted the referendum result. The dummy was always getting thrown if the no side lost.
Thankfully we only need to grin and bare another 3 years of this incompetent council then we can get this project back on track, as per the will of the people.
Nice day today, wonder how many people are down there, I don’t know but would hazard a guess I wouldn’t need the fingers of my second hand in the count. It’s a cold unwelcoming place, the sooner it gets raised the better.
You do realise SHMU is a charity that does a lot of work for disadvantaged and disabled people in the poorest parts of Aberdeen, to ask for a financial contribution for these pictures being used in a community newsletter is bizarre.
Has the photographer no shame??
What a strange story to cover, asking a poor charity for compensation when no monetary thing of value has been stolen.
“Darkroom supplies”. 🙂
I suspect the Voice and its artists secretly have a Delorean we’re not being told about. Come into the future, it’s great.
I am one of the photographers and live in one of the poorest parts of the city. I sell my pictures to make a living. If folk are going to give them away for free I may as well just pack it in and sign on. Many photographers use film, I use both film and digital. Is it just photographers who should give things away? Maybe charities should expect tradesmen to work for free or shop to give them goods. After all they do good work. Maybe I could give them my pictures in exchange for food parcels.
Vicky,
They have apologised and admitted it was an error, surely that’s enough when it comes to dealing with a small local charity helping the poorest areas in our community?
If it was a private for profit company that had done it I’d fully support you.
yes – a small local charity, which undoubtedly does good. However, with just under £300,000 going on annual salaries; SHMU is also a private limited by guarantee company which should pay for artwork it uses. Was the brochure commissioned? Did SHMU receive money for printing it? Even if it wasn’t operating on £500,000 per year, media companies get permission and pay to use photos. When it is your artwork, you can say that an apology is enough. Vicky has already explained how she feels.
Comment from Station House Media Unit
As an organisation, we are disappointed that Aberdeen Voice has chosen to continue to criticise our work. In our opinion this was an honest mistake; one that we have taken full responsibility for, which has been blown out of all proportion.
As can be seen in the content of the article above, we have attempted to contact all the photographers concerned to apologise in person for the error that took place when finalising the design of the booklet – Tillydrone Guide, which was delivered freely to every home in Tillydrone.
It was always our intention to make the publication available on our website (www.shmu.org.uk) so that others out with the Tillydrone area could make use of the excellent resource. It was for this reason that we attached a release form requesting the use of the photographs for the on-line version along with the letter of apology. We made it clear that we would remove the photographer’s image from the on-line version unless their consent was secured. We fully recognise that this is the same permission process that should have taken place with the original printed version and have openly accepted our shared responsibility in the failure to ensure that permissions were sought prior to printing, as can be seen in the letter of apology that was sent to photographers as detailed in the article above.
Seven photographers images were used in this booklet. Of the seven, one person could not be contacted due to data protection issues; one person has asked for their image not to be used; one person has not replied to the request for use of the image in the on-line version, and their image will be removed; and four people are very happy for their images to be used.
At no point have any of the photographers who have been contacted indicated that they are looking for financial compensation.
We have accepted our responsibility in the process that led to this issue arising and have put in place new procedures to ensure that it does not happen again. We will continue to deal with the matter directly with the photographers concerned, and would urge any photographer that would like to discuss this issue with us further to phone and make an appointment with me at SHMU, our number is: 01224 515 013.
We will not be making any further statements on this story as we are conscious that responding to this is taking us away from our primary purpose; providing and facilitating the platforms and skills required to enable the voices of residents within the regeneration areas of Aberdeen, and other disadvantaged communities of interest across the city, to be heard. This is, as it always has been, our priority.
Murray Dawson
Chief Executive
Station House Media Unit
It is very good that you admit making a mistake. The law however says the photographers who want compensation are entitled to it: and that is what Aberdeen Voice has been trying to secure: why the reluctance to offer any compensation? And just wondering: is this the first and only time SHMU has used images without permission? Thank you for clearing that up.
If SHMU were not a media organisation which trains people how to work in the media, this ‘mistake’ would be somewhat understandable. Considering SHMU’s remit (and this helpful piece on a website it administers – http://57north.org/news/copyright-infringement-practical-guide-musicians which tells people to go after compensation if their artwork has been used) – it seems on the disingenuous end of the spectrum to say this is just an accident, one that SHMU won’t make good on. Is there really none of your £500,000 annual budget left that giving one or two hundred pounds out is impossible? Don’t you agree that this is the right thing to do?
Thank you to people who have been in touch with regard to similar copyright breach experiences; I am very keen to hear from any artists/photographers whose work has been used without permission.
Funny you should mention deer legs as only last week I was offered 8 legs of venison in pub, he wanted £200 pounds.
That’s two dear I replied. 🙂
Who did the arithmetic for you Bill?
Well that last comment just shows up the idiots that are going about these days. Anyway this whole deer cull issue has been a disgrace from the beginning. It looks to me like ACC and the police are in cahoots about something. It makes me sick that all this deer killing is simply because of a load of trees, it’s got entirely out of hand. I never agreed with the cull, it has been completely unneccesary, and i do not agree with the current deer ‘management’ on Tullos Hill. The deer are beautiful and have every right to be left alone because we all know the hill was never over run with them don’t we?? Everyone involved with the cull seems be as crooked as the next.
Maybe the publicity itself about the deer has worked against them.Along with other dog owners I used to walk over the “Gramps”twice a day and it was a joy to view the deer,foxes and hawks among other wildlife but that was in the seventies and eighties and it was a silent law not to make that public information.We moved away years ago and it is very sad to read of the decimation of that former lovely nature’s haven!l
The way information has been handled about the deer is a very interesting aspect. As you say, it was a given the deer were there and they were left alone. Then we had Peter Leonard, Ian Tallboys of the city council and Chris Piper all saying we had ‘too many deer’. Then we have no publicity from the mainstream press about someone or something destroying these 4-5 deer, and a complete refusal to post signs reinforcing the laws about poaching/harming wildlife. Something is very much wrong with our administration.
I dont understand the story here.
Have any of the photographers asked SHMU for compensation?
It appears from the statement from the organisation that they haven’t.
If they haven’t then what’s the point?
It seems that they recognise their responsibility and have apologised – where’s the story?
Sounds a bit vindictive to me – is there some underlying disagreement between AV and SHMU?
SHMU has it in writing that some of the photographers want compensation, which they are legally entitled to. Apologising doesn’t let anyone off the hook in the eyes of the law. Did you see the comment from Vicky? Do you think it’s vindictive to want to be paid for your work or for wanting control of how your work is used? Interesting.
Are you sure?
They say in their statement;
“At no point have any of the photographers who have been contacted indicated that they are looking for financial compensation.”
Are you saying Vicki has requested compensation and has been refused?
Simple answer: I asked Murray about compensation on behalf of those who want compensation in an email 7 March – no answer came.
Question: If you take something that isn’t yours, use it in a way that earns you money, do you think saying ‘sorry’ gets you off the legal hook?
By the way, it’s taken quite a while to even determine whether Aberdeen City Council or SHMU was going to take responsibility for this piece of copyright theft. SHMU did so, but is now saying it is not the lead agency. Some of those involved held fire until the ‘apology’ letter was issued: normally such an acknowledgement of copyright theft would also contain an offer of compensation, the SHMU letter didn’t.
There are number of other factors behind the scenes I would love to make public, but for the time being I’m not doing so. Andy, why don’t you just ask SHMU why it can’t offer money for the work it used? It’s a £500,000 per year professional media company and it knows all about publishing law. And if it doesn’t know how to treat photographers and artists, then why not?
So Aberdeen Voice have requested compensation on behalf of the photographers?
Did you request a specific amount?
Did you ask all the photographers if they wanted you to deal with compensation claims on their behalf?
I dont understand why the photographers who are looking for compensation don’t just contact SHMU directly and ask for the amount they feel they are due?
First, I’d like you to look at the ‘about’ Aberdeen Voice page. This is my story, carried in Aberdeen Voice. Having admitted breaking copyright law, SHMU should have offered compensation – they had every opportunity to do so. When you are approached by people to look into a matter, and find out they’ve been wronged, and you can’t get redress or even all the facts (who was the lead agency if not SHMU? what was Aberdeen City’s role?), then there is every reason to make the story public. There are more facts behind how SHMU is dealing with the photographers and me behind the scenes, believe me I would so like to share this, and just might. Can I ask you – why don’t you think a company like SHMU which has a publicly-funded large budget, which purports to be able to train people to be media professionals won’t pay someone like Vicky when they admit to taking her work without permission? SHMU had every opportunity to do the right thing here and offer a settlement when it asked me to write that it was contacting the photographers to apologise. There would not have been a story had this happened. This is very black and white as far as the law is concerned; don’t you have any concerns about how SHMU acted? I can promise you that several rights agencies are interested.
So Vicki is the person you are acting on behalf of?
One photographer is behind the story?
I agree this is black and white – she should contact SHMU and request the amount of compensation she thinks is fair.
Suzanne, I take it from your lack of response to my earlier question that Vicky is the only photographer who is looking for compensation?
Is it not true that until recently Vicky was a volunteer photographer with a local community magazine facilitated by SHMU, offering to provide photographs to the community magazine free of charge?
The plot thickens…
I suspect their may be a conflict of interest here, perhaps Suzanne might clarify whether the photographer is a personal friend?
I have a friend who has a dj slot at Schmu, just to make it clear why I have an interest here, I know the good work they do.
I am happy to confirm that there is no conflict of interest. Why do you think the photographers are personal friends, I wonder – they are facebook acquaintances, like a few hundred other such acquaintances. Even if they were my closest friend, the principles remains the same – as set out in the article.
Can you ask your friend at SHMU why it feels it’s above the law and above industry standards of paying photographers for work published? We would love to know. SHMU does good work – why you feel that is in dispute is odd. What is not in dispute is they have acted unprofessionally here.
I am very glad to know that your friendship with a SHMU dj has not coloured the basics of copyright law and publishing.
Again, the same question – has Vicky directly asked SHMU for compensation?
If not, perhaps she should and then let us all know if in fact there is any point to this story?
Dear Andy, Thank you for your in depth interest in this case of admitted copyright theft. As you can appreciate, there are legal issues which make further disclosure at this time impractical. As indicated, compensation was requested, and was expected when we were told that SHMU was about to write to those involved. Perhaps you should ask SHMU instead to share their correspondence with me, Aberdeen Voice, and those involved, be it by email or on social media – you would find it interesting. By all means continue your conjecture and speculation; as interesting as they are to some I’m sure, they do not change the facts and the legal requirement to pay for photographs SHMU published. SHMU is aware of the rules; it posted guidance on a website it manages. As you are very interested in the backgrounds of those involved, may I ask whether you have any connection to SHMU?
I see that the photograph linked to this story is from the photographer in question.
How much money did Aberdeen Voice pay to use the image for this article – or was it provided free of charge?
Dear Kathy, all of our photographs are cleared in advance, thank you for your question. If Aberdeen Voice did pay for using photographs, that would of course be between us and the photographers / image makers. As it happens, all images on AV were cleared in advance and no fees were charged. It should also be noted that AV doesn’t have a budget remotely approaching that of SHMU, and receives no taxpayer funding.
It’s a lovely photograph. Was it used in the publication in question?
It appears that the author has touched a few raw nerves with this article. Several parties appear to object to the publication of this information whilst failing to provide, or even attempt to provide, any evidence to suggest that the article is in any way inaccurate or misleading. At least one of the photographers appears to support the case put by the author and it is, therefore, difficult to understand any of the points being made by the detractors.
It appears that SHMU have acknowledged their guilt and apologised whilst, at the same time, they appear to have sought to add insult to injury by asking permission to continue to use the work free of charge in an additional publication. I would not take too kindly to someone apologising for stealing my wallet whilst asking my permission to steal my watch as well.
Perhaps those objecting should declare exactly why they have taken the time to make objections which contain no substance?
You can steal anything you want as long as you issue a retrospective apology? Shame on you SHMU.
Andy,How do you know that I have volunteered time for a SHMU publication? Do you work form SHMU? Are you the same person that thought it was acceptable to send me a bullying email? Is my name being bandied about because I am the only photographer who has volunteered my time to as community magazine? The plot thickens…
I cant believe that this is even a subject within Aberdeen voice, local people give up there time to volunteer at shmu and learn new skills in doing so. I have stayed in woodside since I was a child If people who contribute to the magazines were to be paid for their input ie. photos, stories etc then there would not be enough money in the pot for it all. I do believe if people are paid monies for things then it has to be declared through tax would that be the case….
I am from one of this areas and am disgusted that people would even contemplate thinking about taking money from a CHARITY for their own work.
Does Aberdeen voice pay for the pictures and stories that they use… what is Aberdeen voices ethos anyway I dont quite understand what your about!!!!!
I will be happy to explain, since somehow the article didn’t seem to explain it to you. SHMU gets £500,000 per year. It spends £290,000+ on salaries. It gets paid to create booklets. It used photos without getting prior permission or payment from someone who cannot afford to work for free, as you somehow think they should. Aberdeen Voice asks permission from photographers, and then uses work. It’s quite simple really, and the law backs us up. In fact, a photographers’ rights agency has suggested that since SHMU is not offering to pay anything at all, the matter should go before the Charities Commission. Do you work for free? Do you let people take your goods without getting compensated? Thought not.
I find your comments insulting i am a local person and you have upset me with your tone. Im not academic and for the amount of work that goes on in the area through shmu that does not seem like a lot of money. I know about shmu due to having a magazine delivered to my house which is great to see the work by local people. I was only merely giving my point of view that’s what this page is about. I get the feeling that this is your issue with the organisation is this the case? Who funds you??
https://aberdeenvoice.com/about/ will tell you about funding. Sorry if you don’t like the tone of my reply; to me it seemed suited to the tone in your original post. All of the reasons why photographers’ work is clearly their creations and must be cleared is set out in the article, and is surely known to SHMU, which trains people to work in the media. If you ask someone for permission it is up to them if they will donate the work or ask to be paid. If you don’t ask for work and you publish it, well then the law has something to say on the issue. Whether or not you are local, as am I, sadly, has no bearing on SHMU being in the wrong.
Theft is theft. Is it ok steal from someone who lives in a deprived community? Eh no! Pay the photographers. Charity my arse.
“Sarcasm and political satire are sometimes the only weapons people have against powerful institutions and powerful people. We now have threats to our free press coming in light of the News of the World hacking scandal, wherein a sledgehammer is being used to crack all the nuts, good ones and bad ones, for the actions of a few corrupt, powerful people in the press, who were buying information from the police.”
Beware of censorship for there lies danger
It would be interesting to know if any action will be taken against the city warden who said they would report the Kincorth deer leg but did not do so, or if it will again be a case of Aberdeen City Council staff getting away with it.n [comment slightly moderated]
“4 major YES figures” I can hardly wait!
Anyone who claims to be in a position to provide their “vision” for an independent Scotland is misleading people. What they can provide is a summary of their own personal ideology and rhetorical statements which seek to support that ideology. Such rhetoric would include phrases such as, for example, “Scots should be in control of their own destiny” whilst failing to acknowledge that there is currently no such proposition available to us.
At this moment in time, we are being offered the chance to vote to continue to be constrained and controlled by the Bank of England, which is, in turn, controlled by the UK Government at Westminster and by the EU. Even this proposal would be dependent upon everyone in the UK and Europe, other than the SNP leadership, being liars who are trying to scare us. There is no other offer on the table as we are told that the “liars” will see sense if Scotland votes for Independence and, therefore, no other option is required.
I am certainly not ideologically opposed to Scottish Independence but am opposed to being deliberately misled. The ideological day – dreaming and surreal denial of those who lead the Yes campaign do not a “vision” make.
As far as I’m aware, none of the above are SNP candidates. The SNP white paper suggests a currency share and continued EU membership. These folks, hopefully (although, I agree, unlikely), might provide us with an alternative vision.
Your statement about being dependent on “everyone in the UK and Euro zone being liars” is pretty much nonsense. The bank of England have accepted a currency union is possible. The only people denying it are politicians. I’m not suggesting they’re liars, but surely it’s not beyond the realm that a conservative government could perform a u-turn?
For what its worth, I see very little in the SNP/Yes campaign offering that makes independence worthwhile, beyond our massively fairer electoral system.
All salmon farms rely on medication to control or suppress disease and the move of all production to “on-shore enclosed pond and caged systems” looks likely.
If you want to eat wild Scottish salmon then look no further than http://www.usansalmon.com/
At the very least Dave Pullar’s company is honest and above board unlike the farmed fish industry.
Usan? Honest? Really? http://www.banffshire-journal.co.uk/News/Warning-shot-is-fired-on-seal-row-16042013.htm
That’s just ridiculous. Its going to be hard enough to enforce the proposed licences and stop indiscriminate breeding etc. Dog fouling and the lack of people picking it up IS a huge problem as is the lack of provisions for disposing of it once you have picked it up. The fact is, responsible owners/walkers do pick up and they are the ones who will licence and microchip. Those genuinely concerned and who want to do something about it should check this out and take the pledge. http://www.greendogwalkers.org.uk/
I’ve just been thinking, if Scotland became independent it will affect the political make up of the rest of Britain, perhaps considerably so; it could become more right wing which also scares me.
Scotland has fifty nine parliamentary seats but only one is Conservative, England has five hundred and thirty three parliamentary seats but two hundred and ninety eight are Conservative.
Scotland does help to reduce (even with its small share of parliament) right of centre policies. I feel we owe it to the welfare of our countrymen/women throughout Britain to help them, and keep Scotland as part of the UK.
Sean, those south of the border vote for the right wing governments you complain of. Why feel sorry for someone who inflicts difficulties on themselves?
Than you for taking the time to write this article. The Boulton piece is beyond contempt but one might almost understand the anger and bitterness of someone so totally devoid of wit, charm, intellect or principle when faced with Tony Benn, who was amply blessed with all three.
Boulton’s claim to have been “barged out of the way” by Michael Foot did make me laugh. Mr Foot must have been all of 60kg soaking wet and walked with the aid of a stick whilst the boorish Mr Boulton is something of a gros cochon who would take a bit of barging.
Cheers Bruce. Boulton has of course left Sky. One wonders why.
The main benefit of independence would be that we would have a government that we could elect and depose at the ballot box. That is something we have never been able to do since 1707.
Hi Ron,
Self – determination is a fundamental right which no one denies us. The debate is about whether we achieve a fairer and more prosperous outcome as a voluntary part of an established union of ancient nations within the EU, or as a potentially isolated small state outwith the established union and potentially outwith the EU as well. There is, of course, also the very real probability that such isolation would, based on the arguments so far put forward in favour of Independence, result in us ceding power over our own monetary policy to a foreign and fiscally hostile and powerful foreign country.
My worry is that there is no rational or substantial argument being made, or evidence provided, to support the view that we should vote for Independence in order to achieve a fairer and more prosperous society and that lies and deception are being used to suggest we will automatically be better off in order to justify Independence. In other words, an ideology based on instinctive nationalist fervour is the end, rather than the means, for many of the most persuasive nationalists, who use wild and unsubstantiated language to convert others to their cause.
Hi Bruce,
I take on board what you say but Westminster policies are seen to benefit London and the South East at the expense of the rest of the country. We have the opportunity to change that in September.
Scotland has consistently contributed more to the exchequer than she receives back and it is generally accepted by economists that we are perfectly capable of standing on our own two feet.
While I favour a Scottish currency, in the short to medium term retention of The Pound would be beneficial to both countries. Were Westminster to deny this and The Scottish Government to continue using it (which they are perfectly entitled to do) and to walk away from their apportioned share of the UK debt it could be problematic for sure, but much more of a problem for Westminster who would have to shoulder all the debt, along with the costs of relocating the nuclear arsenal located in Scotland.
Only time will tell, but we have the opportunity to start anew and form a more compassionate and caring nation who wealth is used for the benefit of it’s residents and not squandered on insanities such as Afghanistan and nuclear weapons.
Bob, this is wonderful – cheers!
Gled ye like it quine
Clearly it doesn’t matter what is being said you have made up your own mind. Aberdeen voice for whom ( yourself)
My own personal experience of Aberdeen City Council has never left me in any doubt that they are a very corrupt and dishonest organisation. (Note to moderator, I accept full legal responsibility for my statement).
Typical SNP in my opinion, always complaining about everything and anyone, but not having a clue what to do about it. (post moderated)
What a nice surprise to find a populist press release from the SNP! Even more surprising after Kevin Stewart’s stomach churning “bairns before bombs” questions to Nicola Sturgeon yesterday during which Kevin revealed himself to be the only person in Scotland who didn’t know what the SNP policy is, in relation to Trident. Maybe Kevin has had other things on his mind for the past 20 years.
Perhaps the next SNP press release will include details of what Alex Salmond’s personal expenses, during a gruelling and extremely worthwhile trip to the Ryder Cup in the USA, were spent on and how much public money he has spent on preventing this information being made available to the public? After all, it may be that he donated the reportedly missing £54,000 to Save the Children.
Where, one wonders, does Monsieur Allard suggest we direct our anger at SNP politicians who continually insult our collective intellegence with in my opinion their un – costed, unsubstantiated, unbelievable fantasy presentation of a future independent Scotland in which we will all enjoy good health, free of charge, and have billion dollar oil wells in our back gardens, whilst everyone in the world will do what we tell them or be revealed as bluffing blustering scaremongers? (post moderated)
Think you’re a bit off the mark Bruce. All that the SNP are doing is pointing out that money, wasted by Westminster for generations, could be better spent. What would be your preference I wonder: meaningless and unwinnable wars and weapons of mass destruction that cannot be used, or new schools and hospitals?
Point taken Ron. I inadvertently took a wrong turning when getting out of bed yesterday.
Miz Kelly has no idea of what the people of Derry think and sounds to me like a bitter twisted old lady. From someone who has lived in Derry and knows the city can I wish mrs watts all the best and thankyou for a great job! (post has been moderated)
I worked the salmon fishing here from 1989 – 1999 and again from 2002 – early 2011.
The oil pollution has been seeping onto the beach aince i started at blackdog.
Shanks and McEwans knew about the oil seeping onto the beach and sent a digger down to scoop some up and take back to the waste tip in about 1991 i think it was.
here links to you tube videos and photos on flickr i took during my time at blackdog. these are just a fraction of videos and photos i took during the years.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyDT2MhQDCt-0DK3aztMO7g
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blackdog_oil_pollution/
Paul Murray
Thank you for the links – recommended viewing for anyone who cares about this area or pollution in general. No doubt SEPA will want to let us all know the latest state of affairs in terms of measuring pollution.
Paul – who is “Miz Kelly”?
Look up Trump National Golf Club in Rancho Palos Verdes, Ca where we live next door to it. When the 14th fairway fell down over a couple hundred feet on the bluff, Trump spent something like 11 million dollars to put it back up again. Anyone can walk through his golf course to access the path along the ocean and they enjoy it. It’s the law that people can access the coastline and beaches. Dot
PS from Nick Tesco – It turns out that there is more to the story than Warner making that suggestion. It would appear that private health comapnies have an involvement – http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/03/31/thinktank-proposing-monthly-fee-for-nhs-is-funded-by-private-healthcare-companies/ -: so as usual everything is never as it seems. Feel free to quote me or whatever. Nick x
“The wariness about foreigners was to be a characteristic of the time. British intelligence had reports since 1909 about how German intelligence was being gathered in Britain and Ireland,” he
says.
When warfare broke away in Venerable 1914, spy paranoia
soared throughout the UK with a rash of paper stories, books and films.
High-visibility film releases, including the High German Sleuth Peril, Guarding Britain’s Secrets and The Kaiser’s Spies, added fuel to
the send away.
in a nutshell, you’ve hit the entire world’s issues on the head in one piece. Cheers Smithy
There are dozens of rich companies that are avoiding paying tax in this country. British Telecom and Vodaphone, both of them I believe are avoiding paying hundreds of millions each year, some of that money could go into the NHS.
Like many people who love animals I think this is very sad, but I’m sure Sophie is being well cared for by the SSPCA. Why don’t the government bring back the dog license and make this and micro-chipping compulsory. In some countries (I think it’s Australia) you also have to supply pictures of your dog when they are young and then later when they are an adult, this is kept on a data base as part of the dog license. If we also had this system in Britain, I’m sure it would help (at least in part) to deter/stop animal cruelty.
It was obvious our NHS would struggle when we threw our borders open and allowed mass immigration, as well as the burden on our health service affordable social housing is now out of reach to the average working man in the street. I recently applied to the council and at current levels it would take me 12 years to be offered a flat in the poorest part of town, to the area I was brought up in it would take 674 years.
How about an article on local people being denied basic services due to the huge influx of immigrants, surely more worthy of an article than ned abandons staffie.
Oh Bill you are a one. The lack of “affordable ” housing is due to a lack of any coherent housing policy, including rent controls. Private housing is now being openly marketed, on a grand scale, at “buy to let” investors who can own as many as 100 properties. This leads to a shortage of available housing for the low paid, including hard working immigrants, and obscenely high rents which, in turn, attracts more “buy to let” investment and an ever decreasing supply of housing.
Easier to blame the immigrants though eh Bill?
Bruce,
The form actually asked for my ethnicity, I suspect white/scottish got me no points, why even ask the question.
I’m not sure about you but I’ve noticed a huge difference in the make up of Aberdeens population over the years, so yeah immigration on a huge scale when social housing is at a premium was always going to have casualties, you can add home grown mid forties people who have worked hard all their life to that list. I’d be as well going on the dole, that would get me housed.
Have to agree with you Bruce. The Conservatives gleefully sold off local authority housing, promising to use the proceeds to build replacements. That part of the deal was reneged on, creating massive waiting lists. Subsequent governments, of all persuasions, refused to sanction new build adding to the problem and causing house prices to escalate to unheard of levels. Had a sensible housing policy be adopted in regard to local authority/housing association new builds, this could have been avoided. We then have little gems like the “bedroom tax” being imposed because of market forces/greedy landlords increasing rents to ridiculous and unjustified levels to milk the benefits system. Surely a rent cap would have been more appropriate? Innocent parties in the rest of the country are being made suffer because the economy in the South East of England has been allowed to overheat dramatically by inept politicians of all persuasions.
To Bill’s comment on housing allocation on grounds of ethnicity I would comment: Housing is allocated on a needs basis. Those whom he complains about accept what they are offered while many locals turn up their noses at areas they don’t like. If you desperately need a roof over your head you can’t afford to be choosy. There in lies the problem.
It was the cheap sell – off of social housing, without replacement, and the creation of an anarchic private housing market which led to a shortage of housing for the less well off. I have a feeling you might have a sneaking admiration for the instigator of this deliberate policy.
Don’t blame the immigrants Bill. It might possibly give some the misguided impression you are a lumpen racist.
A must for anyone making a serious study into the totally ridiculous, Sid is best known as Douglas John McLean Cairns and was born in Glasgow. But don’t necessarily hold that against him.
For over 900 years he has worked as a Change Manager, Performance Poet and Spiritual Healer. His unique combination of skills have made him an exceptional speaker and expert in Transformational Change whatever that means.
In his spare time he has cycled across the Sinai Desert and something called Cuba.
Another adventure for Alan. Not a “death”. I have admired Alan and his work for many years. Future generations will be inspired by him and his work. How wonderful that there was no pandering to “fad” or “fashion” Your knowledge, and archetypal recall ]has loaded all the works with layers of meaning. Such enrichment to the world, and to my life… Such a precious rarity to be savoured. Vale. Michael Morgan Oyster Cove. Tasmania
I just went out and bought one of the new 4 bed houses being built in Bucksburn but as a tax payer since the day I left school social housing should have been an option for me.
How would I get on if I kicked up in Romania looking for a house and benefits??
Bruce, if you didn’t see it last night on channel 5 please get it on catch up, pickpocketers secrets, it was all about pickpockets in London, over 75% of all crime there now is carried out by immigrants.
They crowd our hospitals, prisons, social housing, schools, et al, sooner we leave the EU and can control the influx the better all round.
Bill, I am slightly confused, can you explain why you “just went out and bought one of the new 4 bed houses”. But you have also applied to the council for housing, if you have the money to “just” buy a house, some social housing providers may not think of you as being in priority need.
I pay my taxes and am as entitled to apply for housing as anyone, in my opinion more entitled than someone who has never paid into the system or has paid very little, this is where our Country has got things all wrong, the benefit system was meant to be a last resort but has turned into a way of life for some, these people in turn get social housing ahead of those who actually pay the bills.
The above goes for immigrants as well, we should be looking after our own first, those who pay taxes over a long length of time.
Hello again Bill,
I suspect it would require an awful lot of Romanian pickpockets to steal the sums of money being misappropriated, on a daily basis, by our home – grown investors and businessmen, within the City of London and elsewhere.
Should you decide to “kick up in Romania” you will have no need of benefits. For the price of your house in Bucksburn, you will be able to buy an entire village and all the comforts you could ever desire.
Bucksburn or Bucharest, what do you think?
a props of nothing in particular, I would like to say Aberdeen Voice is not able to publish comments accusing people of being racists, bigots, unsympathetic bread-heads, callous nationalists and the like. That is all. Thank you.
I totally agree with Martin Ford. This is truly a magnificent building which is deserving of being in everyday use
They should sell the building off if they’re not going to maintain it properly, turn it into flats. (edited)
Hardly seems relevant now but don’t know how the Marillion reference got in there; can’t recall where I got that from. Unfortunately, drummer David Innes has passed away; he is missed by many, witnessed by a great celebration of his life in the form of a concert held last Friday evening in Aberdeen. RIP.
Very interesting article, thank you Suzanne and Aberdeen Voice. I’m quite stretched at the moment but I’ve given a donation to Sea Shepherd UK and Hunt Saboteurs Association. I would like to ask other readers to please make donations also, even a small amount helps and you get a nice feeling from knowing that you’ve done something to help.
Below are the webpages where you will find the donate buttons/web links:
http://www.huntsabs.org.uk/
http://www.seashepherd.org.uk/support-us/support-us.html
The fact that these aggressive people have access to firearms is worrying. If they have started threatening people, I think they should be disarmed at once.
Let me assure you, the folk from Usan Fisheries are not aggressive. In fact quite the opposite.
evidence please Duncan; for the evidence on film is quite to the contrary
George Pullar of Scottish Wild Salmon Company responds:
“Firstly, there is no use of lethal measures at the Ythan [SUZANNE notes – I had a conversation with someone in the Ythan area who said the area was likewise being targeted, and I am trying to learn more] and in fact we have opted to refrain from exercising our netting rights there. Only the rod and line fishery is to be operated at the Ythan. Sea Shepherd are targeting our operation at Gardenstown, which is an entirely separate location.
“In response to your concerns, please be assured that we are going about our lawful business and are fully complying with all seal licence conditions, firearms legislation and the heritable title we have to fish for salmon. This, despite considerable provocation from Sea Shepherd who are known for their extreme actions. We note you have already uploaded an article on the Aberdeen Voice. This is a great pity as it is clear you only have one side of the story and that is inaccurate. Our staff are being constantly stalked and harassed by Sea Shepherd crew. We have met with both Police Scotland and Sea Shepherd representatives, in an attempt to resolve matters. Sea Shepherd have made it clear that they consider themselves as under a ‘higher law’ despite clear warnings from the police, that we are not to be impeded from carrying out our lawful business and that Scottish Law applies here. Today, 22 April, on arrival at the pier, our law abiding staff were faced by a large group of activists, wearing face masks, knuckledusters and combat gear. Clearly, the intent was to intimidate – surely such extremism has no place in modern Scotland. The police have been advised.
“Unfortunately, Sea Shepherd have chosen to sensationalise and misrepresent the issue for their own ends. To be clear, we deploy Acoustic Deterrent Devices wherever possible and have done so at Gardenstown. We have invested considerable resources in strengthening our fishing gear to further deter seal attack and are currently in discussions with Scottish Government to determine what additional non lethal measures can be deployed to avoid the need for lethal control – lethal methods are very much a last resort. To that end, in order to reduce tensions we will remove all firearms from our operation and will continue dialogue with Scottish Government involving the Sea Mammal Research Unit, to garner support and direct assistance to further expand non lethal measures.
“Please also be aware that we are mindful of our very strong legal rights and will defend these to the fullest extent of the law. Given the ongoing significant and unwarranted harassment we are suffering, through online media, email and face to face, giving rise to the potential of legal action, it would be inappropriate for us to make any further comment.”
Yours faithfully
George Pullar, Director
Suzanne, is this a responce directly to you or a quote from elsewhere?
why does it matter? It is his words. It is directly to me in an email for that matter.
It matters because to a casual reader it appears that you have interviewed him.
sorry, you’re losing me here: these are the man’s written words in response to an email I sent. His comments are black and white. If I had interviewed him, which I’d be more than willing to do, do you think he’d have said something different? Please do explain what point you’re trying to make. It is almost as if you’re implying I’m somehow trying to mislead the ‘casual reader’ by presenting them with Pullar’s words.
When you say that the original fishing cottages of Old Torry were torn down to make way for the oil and gas industry, some people think that no Victorian houses remain in Torry. I and my family live in a detached house in Abbey Road which was built in 1872 and there are other houses of a similar vintage in the area.
Please excuse my ignorance on such an important issue when I say that I am simply astounded that the netting of wild salmon is still being carried out on such a scale in Scottish river estuaries. Given the acknowledged fragility of wild salmon stocks, I had simply assumed there to be legislation in place to prevent such widespread harvesting of Atlantic wild salmon.
Allegations of the slaughter of seals, by the use of firearms and for the purpose of accommodating the already questionable practice of widespread commercial salmon – netting, must be taken seriously and investigated thoroughly, as should allegations of intimidation towards the allegedly gun – toting fishermen.
Does anyone know what the anglers, who take such care to try to preserve salmon stocks , have to say about the activities of USAN?
thanks Bruce for the comments and the question – this will shed some light http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/columns/charlesclover/article1399146.ece
thanks Bruce for the comments and the question – this will shed some light http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/columns/charlesclover/article1399146.ece
I suspect that that is at the heart of the issue Bruce. The netting of wild salmon conflicts with the interests of the landowners who control the inland fisheries.
thank you for your suspicions. Do name the landowners you mean. The landowners at Gardenstown are, I know for a fact, against the shooting of seals from their land, and have told as much to USAN / Scottish Wild Salmon Co. on numerous occasions. Do you know someone connected to the company Duncan? You seem very keen to defend them, and I for one would like to know what your evidence is, thanks
I am sure there could be advantages to Scotland becoming independent, but we will loose much, much more than we could ever gain by doing so. We are in the centenary of World War One and many Scottish families lost loved ones in both World Wars keeping Britain safe. I will be remembering those who gave their lives when I vote to keep Britain together.
That doesn’t really make sense Sean. Regardless of whether you want to remember those who died in WW1/2, it has absolutely no bearing on the vote for independence – the two are entirely unrelated.
As an aside, nobody died in World Wars to maintain Scotland’s right to have nuclear weapons. Britain is less safe with Nuclear weapons in it, and less safe when it continues to support aggression in the middle east. If you want to keep Britain safe, then there is a far greater chance of that happening in an independent Scotland, as Trident would not be supported. With the UK’s first past the post system, you are tied to a Conservative or Labour party for the foreseeable future – both of those parties have attached themselves firmly to Trident. I’m not saying that independence is right or wrong, simply that if your goal is a safer Britain, then a non-nuclear independent Scotland should be your choice.
I am sorry you failed to understand what I had written.
Maybe I did, but it very much looked to me like you were conflating something that has absolutely nothing to do with independence (remembering victims of WW1) with independence.
Sean, if you wish to remember those wo gave their lives in both World Wars before to vote in 144 days, please do acknowledge that many of those serving at the time did want Scotland to be an independent country, just like the ones serving today.
As someone who wasn’t born here, I do object to folks bringing those wo gave their lives in any wars to the debate. I know many veterans who will vote yes.
For you Sean to understand where I am coming from, both my great grandfathers lost a brother in WW1, my grandfather was fighting alongside British forces for 3 days in Dunkirk, I served and trained with many other nations’ armed forces including Germany, I want my children and grandchildren to learn from the past for the world to live in peace.
We are commemorating the start of WW1 this year, commemorating and not celebrating. British triomphalism has no place in this debate.
The leader of the SNP – one Alex Salmond has publicly conceded that nothing can be promised, guaranteed or believed in the course of the Referendum campaign and that includes the so called promise to get rid of Trident. This article presents an exemplary contrast between the cynical and the naive; the former represented by the unashamedly populist SNP and the latter by anyone who believes a word they say.
The last two lines, in particular, of today’s excellent piece by Bob Smith aka “The Poetry Mannie” sum up the situation perfectly.
You’re right Bruce, but I think it’s fair to say for certain that Trident will definitely stay as part of the Union. I wouldn’t trust the SNP to fulfil its promise, but I do believe that voting Yes will see us gain a number of parties to whom Trident will be unacceptable. The opportunity to vote for those parties, in a fairer PR system, will present itself very soon after the referendum. You’re not voting for SNP, your voting to decide whether you think the Scottish people can be better represented as an independent country than as part of the UK – the answer to that is overwhelmingly yes.
Hi Rico,
Like yourself, I wouldn’t trust the SNP to fulfil their promises. With regard to predicting voting intentions, this is an impossible task. At the last UK election, almost 80% of Scottish voters chose parties committed to retaining Trident. At the last Scottish election, a year later, only 45% of Scottish voters chose parties committed to retaining Trident. I would argue that the latter was heavily influenced by those who decided to give a vote of confidence to the SNP, as a devolved Executive, rather than an endorsement of unilateral nuclear disarmament. Such results do not suggest a groundswell of popular opposition to Trident, and provide no certainty of outcome, no matter what system of voting is employed.
With respect, I do understand that this is not a party political contest but the SNP are, beyond doubt, the driving force behind a Yes Campaign which cannot come up with one single definitive response to key questions on EU membership and currency union, to name but two. It is a dishonest and divisive campaign which provides vitriol rather than vision and derision rather than detail. The practical difficulties which would be presented by separation are considerable and are not, in my opinion, outweighed by any potential advantages.
Christian Allard makes a very valid point. Why spend billions on weapons we cannot use when the money could be used to much better ends? Westminster lives in an outdated “British Empire” bubble where power on the world stage is the be all and end all. I would rather live in a country where the government strives to better the position of it’s populace, not consign many to the hardship of food banks, no heating or lighting and abject poverty. Roll on independence. We live in one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. It is time that was reflected in the position of the man in the street, not a handful of super-rich individuals.
It does seem perverse that our illustrious council has decided to demolish what is a magnificent granite building in a deprived area of the city. Given the horrendous waiting lists for council housing and the effects of the “bedroom tax”, surely conversion in to a significant number of one bed roomed flats would be preferable?
Ron
The councillors are devoid of common sense, this is why we are being bullied by Wil;lie Young and his cretins. IMO
There seems to be a built-in inability to admit to a mistake in public service in the UK. The police responded heavily to a hoax call. That in itself is absolutely fine – rather that than not be prepared enough. But the absolute refusal to admit when their in the wrong (and provide a relatively small sum to the claimant and investigate the hoax caller) is galling. The police are a public service. Tax payers pay for the information they hold and that information should be made available to the people who paid for it. You wouldn’t pay for a survey on your house only to be told that you couldn’t actually look at it.
Excellent News
Now time to start campaigning for a path to Blackburn?
And a cycle path through the Tyrebagger Forest from Blackburn to Kirkhill industrial estate would be good!
I find it odd that the wild salmon fisheries are coming in for such a bad press. The industry is centuries old and despite the fact that many of us can choose to avoid eating those foods which we disapprove of, others decide otherwise.
Obviously if you are against the eating of fish then I understand. If you are a river fisherman or indeed a fan of fish suppers that is quite a different story.
George’s dad Dave recently told me “I have had many folk in my kitchen who go off to write bad press about the Salmon fishing afterward. They should look to what the big estates are doing really. That is where the problem lies.”
Why not target the consumer rather than the likes of Usan. Perhaps market forces will end the conflict between the catcher and the folk who object to the protection of the netting.
In many ways, the Usan Fisheries are continuing a heritage industry.
the situation at hand is far from centuries old Duncan. You can still have salmon without shooting seals 🙂 Target the consumer? be my guest. This article is about what is going on now at Gardenstown. Feel free to write a factual piece of your own.
Not sure where you are from Suzanne but from a Scottish perspective the netting of salmon is a heritage occupation.
Well Duncan, my nationality may be of interest to you, but it is not relevant. But I’ve lived here for over 10 years. I’ve lived here long enough to know that if you don’t have the landowner’s permission – which those involved in the shooting don’t have – you can’t legally shoot from the owner’s property. This was made clear last year when the shooters killed a seal in front of tourists who promptly cancelled their Gardenstown stay, and it was made clear again this year. Salmon netting on a sustainable scale, without illegally shooting seals (and there are non-lethal deterrents) is part of Scotland’s heritage. But new developments such as the cruelty of salmon farming and the modern methodology at play here have no business in any compassionate society. Are you saying that only people from a particular national background have the right to criticise or the ability to understand that nation? Does this mean we should allow the Japanese to whale because they claim (incorrectly) it is their ‘heritage’, or that bear bile, rhino horn and other traditional medicines should be allowed to continue because of national tradition?
I suppose its a big mistake really. Obviously George was innocent of wrong doing and my heart goes out to the man. He wasn’t even there after all.
The police did what they had to do, which is of course sad.
As to your comment that “Any first year law student would be making good points as to how holding a review pretty much gives validation to the request for a review.”
I very much doubt it. Law students and indeed lawyers are very quickly persuaded that the law only serves those who understand it and can afford to pay for justice.
Most honest lawyers will agree. Their mortgage payments depend upon it.
“the police did what they had to do?” Maybe you missed the part about finding there was no gunman, no gun and no illegal activity, and then days later arresting the flat owner. Or perhaps you missed the half dozen or more ambiguities in how the police proceeded
The Salmon netting companies in particular USAN trading as Scottish Wild Salmon Company receive a bad press because of their methodology which includes netting in estuaries where Salmon are returning to breed in already depleted rivers. Shooting seals (in Crovie in front of children and tourists who have vowed never to return). They have lied constantly about their intentions. Have intimidated protestors with threats of violence and filled their pockets, without return to the communities they plunder.
Anglers on The Ythan are in uproar that this river who’s stocks were depleted of fish by farming methods which filled the river with algae and starved it of light and oxygen.
River management are in uproar because they have done sterling work in improving the water quality and stocking the river. We are in uproar because they still intend to disrupt the biggest seal population in the area. (Anglers have been told to buy seal scarers) and though they say they will remove firearms from their operation still refuse to give up their cull licences and firearms licences.
Their methods are both unsustainable and unsavoury.
Ythan anglers on the other hand have done their bit for the river ecology. Returning the majority of their catch and enjoying a symbiotic relationship with other river users including our magnificent seal population.
Just because something has happened for hundreds of years doesn’t mean it’s right. We had to fight against such arguments to overcome the death penalty.
This Statement just in from Sea Shepherd:
Update on the meeting today between Sea shepherd and The scottish wild salmon company. Sea shepherd UK went to the table with as good an offer as its possible for us to make and asked only that the Scottish wild salmon company hands back its licences and ceases to kill seals.
The Scottish wild salmon company have asked for a week to consider our offer and have promised that they will kill no seals during that period.
For the sake of the good people of Gardenstown and local relations Sea shepherd suggested that the HSA depart from the town and this has now happened. Sea shepherd are hugely grateful to the HSA for all they have done in Gardenstown towards our mutual cause of stopping seals being killed. Huge respect to the members involved who conducted themselves with restraint even when employees of Scottish wild salmon company provocatively turned up at our beach clean up today.
Sea shepherd hugely appreciates the wonderful response from our supporters in putting pressure on the Harbour trust regarding the invoice for filming, this has now been resolved and we would ask that no more emails, tweets or comments are sent to them. The Harbour trustees have acted nobly and relations are now good between Sea shepherd and the harbour.
We urge seal lovers across the world to come together and (politely) make it very clear to the Scottish government and the Scottish wild salmon company that shooting protected seals under any circumstances is totally unacceptable. With your help and support we can bring an end to this senseless and unnecessary killing!
Christian,
To discuss what the thoughts and opinions of long dead soldiers may, or may not, have been, particularly in the context of apparently seeking political advantage, appears unseemly and undignified. To attack someone and accuse them, quite falsely, of “British triumphalism” seems, in my opinion, to indicate a clear unwillingness to tolerate any opinion which does not support the Scottish Nationalist cause.
I would like to hear more about how an independent Scotland, as an aspiring member of NATO, might present, as part of their application process, their intention to immediately and unilaterally rip apart the NATO nuclear strategy at a stroke. Would it be the case that NATO, just like the UK Government and all 28 states within the EU, will simply do what Scotland says?
Bruce, to be sovereign is to negotiate your position in the world. After a Yes vote and if the people of Scotland vote for the SNP to form the first government of an independent Scotland, this will happen:
“The SNP wishes Scotland to fulfil its responsibilities to neighbours and allies. On independence Scotland will inherit its treaty obligations with NATO. An SNP Government will maintain NATO membership subject to an agreement that Scotland will not host nuclear weapons and NATO continues to respect the right of members to only take part in UN sanctioned operations. In the absence of such an agreement, Scotland will work with NATO as a member of the Partnership for Peace programme like Sweden, Finland, Austria and Ireland. Scotland will be a full member of the Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP) of the European Union and the Organisation for Cooperation and Security in Europe (OSCE).”
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/in-full-snp-resolution-on-nato-1-2414919
Christian,
Your unwillingness to address legitimate concerns about making presumptions as to the opinions of dead soldiers to gain political advantage and unjustified attacks against those who disagree with you speaks volumes!!
It is somewhat ironic that your response begins by referring to negotiation and ends with an SNP resolution which clearly claims automatic rights to NATO membership, under terms and conditions strictly laid down by the SNP, and an additional option of membership of other associations due to our automatic right to EU membership, presumably also under terms and conditions strictly laid down by the SNP. Forgive me if I suggest that this sounds more like dictatorship and delusion than negotiation.
Today Scotland, tomorrow the world!!
Even the Scottish Trade Unions are against independence:
http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/postal-workers-urged-to-vote-no-1.339642
http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/salmond-admires-russian-leader-1.340268
Aberdeen has not and never will be called the “Deen”, please desist from using this phrase, no local would ever use when describing our City.
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=%22Deen%22%2C+Aberdeen%2C+Scotland&start=10
I have now boycotted Scottish wild salmon, and I will now be buying Pacific wild salmon. I had a good look at the product information on the different supermarkets websites, there is little information about country of origin and no information about the producer. But at least by refusing to buy Scottish fish I know that no innocent animals have been killed.
The link to the petition has an extra (encoded) space at the end (the %20), which needs to be removed in order to get to the petition….
I hope the shooting stops soon and the tourism doesn’t suffer before that happens.
During 2011 and 2012 salmon farms and netsmen throughout Scotland shot a total of 898 seals, after the government issued licences to shoot a total of 2,506 seals. Salmon farms accounted for almost exactly half of the Scottish figure.
http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/6751-almost-150-seals-shot-under-licence
We have just cancelled our plans to holiday in Gardens Town this year. Unless the law is enforced then we will not visit Scotland again, plus Scottish Salmon is now off of our shopping list.
Dear Simon – Thanks for getting in touch, but I’m very sorry to hear you’ve cancelled your plans to visit this great area; I’d ask you to reconsider. The town and its people are amazing; I’ve just spent a pleasant few hours there in a local café, and bought quite a few locally made goods. The people I spoke to don’t want the salmon shooting any more than you or I do. The locals could really use your visit 🙂 that goes for anyone else who’d like to visit a beautiful, still unspoilt area. We can’t let the commercial salmon industry change this great area.
We are planning a trip to Scotland next year and our main reasons for coming are the natural beauty and wildlife, this type of incident is not tourist friendly and would certainly make us consider not adding this area to our tour.
Dear All – just a few days remain before this petition closes; please have a look and sign if you agree for protection for Scotland’s seals, thanks http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/gettinginvolved/petitions/sealshooting
Well done to all involved in putting a stop to the slaughter of Scotlands seals. The SWSC Known better in my area as USAN SALMON FISHERIES, TRADING AS SCOTTISH WILD SALMON COMPANY have, for years been shooting INNOCENT seals and need to be stopped. Montrose was a prime target area so much so that for years we had dead bodies left on local beaches with severe head shot wounds. Not pleasant for locals, families, children and tourists to view. Its such a shame that locals felt so intimidated that they wouldn’t at the time stand up and be counted…..perhaps now they will given SSUK and HSA are watching them. For the innocent seals that were killed at Dunnet Head and Montrose years back “I applaud all in their efforts” to get this stopped.
Hi Elaine, we would really appreciate any info on the shooting of seals in Montrose area, you can email in total confidence, please contact us at admin@seashepherduk.org or Face book message Sea shepherd UK. Thanks
The Laird O’ Inversnecky would be shocked and inclined to keep a breast of the matter no doubt.
“Oh tak me back tae Cove, tak me back tae Cove,
far the air is as strong as can be…”
Jist saying Bob.
Aye Duncan richt aneuch. Bit a’m afraid the air wid be as strong as can be with the smell o shite comin fae Kohle’s letters.
there is a petition online at:
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/scottish-parliament-keep-the-fishing-boats-at-cove-shore-please-support-the-rights-of-the-cove-harbour-fishing-community-to-continue-fishing-as-they-have-done-for-hundreds-of-years
This is a great poem about an awful decision. Hope the petition will make him see sense.
Great review ☺ The gig was amazing and it was great to meet the guys afterwards – they’re so lovely and down to earth. Can’t wait to see them again xx
Jist shows fit can be deen bi usin a bittie common sinse in restorin Duthie Park ti its former glory.In stark contrast ti fit wis planned ti revamp Union Terrace Gardens.
Canna say a ken onything aboot The Temperance Movement quines bit a div myn o a band ca’ed The Temperance Seven. Ach a’m showin ma age noo!!
It must have been 12 years ago or more when I first heard that a Pralhad Kohle had purchased the harbour. For what reason one had to ask, and I heard bits and pieces over the years regarding his complaints that the fishing boats were not moored in a military like straight line etc? It all seemed rather bazaar that a chap from a totally different culture would take such an active interest in this ultra-conservative section of society. What were his short and long term motives one had to ask?
I do remember speaking to him with others all that time ago when I said if he thought he could get any money from Aberdonians from fishermen too then he should start looking at the rocks in the harbour and ask them to give him blood!
Nevertheless, I think one should look at the possibility of a secret agenda here. To get rid of the fishing boats and then turn the place into a leisure centre with hotels and holiday flats etc up, and let us not forget that there are those who own the land up the hill who would be only too willing to sell out for a nice fat sum of money no matter what they say about their own cultural interests.
I do sense something a little fishy here, and it is not totally unlike that film “Local Hero” but dear Mr Kohle is not the hero – he is the US business man who may not have his eyes on a massive oil harbour blasted out of rock but eyes towards turning Cove Bay into a great wondrous land of hotels, and leisure faciltiies etc, catering for the rich & famous but with jobs only for those who only want a “minimum wage”.
If this is the case one must ask how different are Mr kohle’s ambitions to the rest of our dear sceptred Isle which we currently call the UK where bankers take precedence, and where the only caring nationalism found today can only be found within Scotland!
Substitute Mr Kohle fer Donald Trump. Baith gien the locals a hard time.
Horrified and sickened that this been allowed to happen in the first place! 🙁 My shopping list will not contain Scottish salmon!
Hi – I did enjoy your ‘usual business’ this week, although your preliminary note about the Crovie fire was a sad and salutory warning.
Also sadly, your note under ‘Propaganda’ about the ‘Unionist Alliance’ poster on Facebook is only too true. I found a similar effort through Twitter as long ago as September 2013. The passage of time has allowed the anonymous author(s?) of this sort of thing to expand the list of scary supporters of the UK from BNP and UKIP to include a few more organisations off most people’s radar. That first time round the title was more pointed – people minded to vote no in the referendum were ‘Saying NO to Scotland.’ That older version of the same poster is here – http://helpgov.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/scottish-independence-referendum-some-tendentious-propaganda/.
I’m sure you’re right to stay away from the subject. The best thing I’ve seen so far about how people should conduct themselves in the debate is from a group valled Collaborative Scotland (I have nothing to do with them) who have come up with a ‘Commitment to Respectful Dialogue’ – http://collaborativescotland.org/respectfuldialogue/. Unfortunately, many (on both sides) seem unable to approach anything near these standards of respect.
Your description of pollution in the East Tullos Burn is spurning me on to confession time. Way back in the mid 1970’s is was employed by a major oil service company who’s name begins in H (they were heavily involved in the Gulf wars). As a lowly technician I was frequently instructed to dispose of large quantities of trichlorethane solvent. How did we do it? By the simple method of tipping it out on the ground where I was told it would evaporate. As an older and much wiser person I know that this was bollocks and the bulk of the solvent almost certainly ended up down at the water table.
In total I must have dumped 50-100 gallons of solvent somewhere in the oil service yard between York Street and the beach esplanade where I am sure it sits to this day contaminating the land. The point of my story? Pollution can have occurred many years ago and unless someone ‘fesses-up, it may be impossible to determine the source years down the line.
I now feel hugely guilty but then I didn’t know better. I am sure that company “H” did, but preferred the quick and cheap disposal method that they instructed me in.
Thanks Geomannie – this is very helpful indeed!
Common practise within all service companies at the time as the waste disposal companies didn’t exist as they do now, people just didn’t have the know how or experience back then.
These days everything is done by the book and the environment is up there with safety as far as the oil service companies go, no expense is spared when it comes to chemical disposal.
So that’s that’s alright then?
Even as a daft laddy I inherently knew that tipping chemicals on the ground was wrong, even though I did as instructed. “H” must have known it was wrong too. I left the job in 1978. I wonder when they stopped dumping trichlorethane?
The chap who was given the death penalty actually died within 45 minutes, imo he didn’t suffer enough in his death, this was someone who had raped his victim and actually buried her alive, i’m sure this took way longer than 45 minutes.
The next person to die by execution raped and killed an 11 Month old girl, how he dies and in what manner is of little importance imo, what’s sure is he doesn’t deserve to live, the man’s a monster.
” imo he didn’t suffer enough in his death” Hey, don’t hold back, tell us what you really think.
Do you really think it was good thing that someone underwent a botched, intensely painful execution, one that was almost certainly illegal under any international law? Maybe you should reread what you just wrote and reflect a little bit? You might do yourself some good.
You reap what you sow in this World son, don’t want to die strapped to a chair with a needle in your arm then don’t murder another person.
I think he got what he deserved, dying in the same manner as his victim would have been more apt however.
As ever Suzanne your article has certainly given rise to much debate, especially about pollution. My concern is about Cllr.Malone. She appears to wish Aberdeen to be a “Wildlife Free Zone”. Coming home by taxi one night, a fox crossed the path of my taxi at 2 a.m. Will she call the fox hounds out, do you think?
The driver should have sped up, foxes are vermin, a step away from a rat, the latter however don’t attack children in the manner urban foxes do.
Dear All, in response to several queries, Bill Stephen is actually a real person who writes in with these comments. You might be forgiven for thinking he is some fictitious invention created to inflame commentary by making outlandish statements, kind of like that woman who crashed and burned from ‘The Apprentice’ [what that? Ed] – but no; Bill is out there. And I do mean out there.
In fairness to this “real person”, it is surely time something was done about these cunning man – eating foxes which are raping and pillaging around our fair city and threatening our civilisation. Perhaps we could make it mandatory for taxi drivers to be adequately equipped with assault rifles with which to disable this threat to our security. Or then again Bill might take it upon himself to patrol our streets of an evening ensuring that anyone suspected of committing a crime is executed in an appropriately sadistic manner. His apparent bloodlust might lead to him teaming up with Ms Malone to boost tourism by initiating a program of late night safaris to eradicate all forms of wildlife.
It might even attract the odd billionaire or two?
What a great idea Bruce; we could team him up with seagull shooter Mervyn New (who blasted protected seagull chicks out of his office window a few years back) http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/oil-company-boss-probed-over-1071830 and of course Donald Forbes. Forbes was so petrified of a fox on a golf course which tried to eat his sandwich lunch that he took a club and battered the thing half to death and left it in agony. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-13411219 New seems to have had no sanction from his company, and Forbes is still apparently welcome at his golf club. I for one won’t be forgetting these heroic figures for a very long time. Have a good one Bruce.
Without wishing to sound unnecessarily negative, is this really the extent of the massive new influx of tourists and air routes we were promised in return for tearing up the Local Plan, sacrificing a unique SSSI and destroying the lives of local residents?
Fair play to VisitAberdeen however, as I’m sure the Baltic bloggers will have a ball riding quad bikes around Lumphanan and wandering around a windswept deserted golf course. Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire have some wonderful tourist attractions, most of them natural and open to all. Why on earth are we promoting privately owned businesses which offer tourists nothing they could not find elsewhere rather than highlighting and marketing our unique natural heritage?
Aww!
Another Story on AV that I would have known about before it happened 🙂
Incidentally, I`ve been doing some work for the Royal Deeside railway and as a reward me and my kids got a ride aboard one of the engines alongside the drivers – It was awesome, the kids loved it and apparently during certain times of the year this experience is available to all? well worth an enquiry
Cool John. Yes the Deeside line is on target to expand. I wrote about it some time ago in various publications.
Sorry about the time lag on this story. At least I got the facts right unlike some other printed publications who led in one case on “Full steam ahead, May 3rd saw the arrival of the Great Britain VII in Inverurie. The train is one of the few steam trains around …. “
Speaking about U-turns and being economical with the truth.
An article in the E&E (15.5.14) reported in reference to Trump abandoning Menie:
” Asked if he would consider pulling out of the resort if the wind turbines are built, he said: “I would say that I would be extremely unhappy and so would the people of Aberdeen.
“I would be so disappointed.” “
Est-il possible de copier 2-3 phrases sur mon blog perso ?
oui, pas de problem. Si possible, donnez-vous un ‘link’ a Aberdeen Voice dans votre blog. Merci
This is great news but when is work going to start? Also is it going to be a paved cycle path or will it be a hardcore track and suitable only for hybrids or mountain bikes?
Please don’t spoil the beautiful view of Marischal College with more glass boxes on pillars just like the ones you’ve pulled down. They will look dated in no time and we’ll be back here again arguing about plans. Provost Skene’s house and Marischal College need space around them to appreciate their stunning architecture. Save the proposed plan for a location more fitting. Tourists will never come to Aberdeen for office blocks and shops, they’re looking for a bit of history and culture.
Sheila is completely correct with her comment and I wholeheartedly agree.
Something I thought about when I’ve seen the artist impressions online in the E&E, is that with the proposed concrete buildings on the west side of Broad Street being as tall and wide as they are, how can the pictures be so sunny. In reality as the sun passes from east to west, even on a clear summer’s day there will be a lot of shadow, just like we had when Aberdeen Shifty Council (IMHO) was in St Nicholas House. During the winter Broad Street will be dark, dingy and unwelcoming, perhaps becoming like the top deck of the St Nicholas Shopping Centre.
I quite agree Sheila. I’m sure future generations of Aberdonians will look back say (not for the first time): what an opportunity missed. It’s high time Provost Skene’s house comes back into the consciousness of “everyday” Aberdeen environment.
For the record, I am NOT Aberdonian but have lived here for the last 35+ years. I am a ‘teuchter’ from Inverurie and to be honest in all of my time here I cannot really remember having feelings of pride of being in this city which I call home. Sure – we’re the ‘oil capital of Europe’ etc etc but you’d hardly know it. I’ve also travelled to many cities in Europe and America and been blown away by some of the most beautiful architecture you cud ever wish to see……… and with that in mind, I TOTALLY remember the first time I looked up Upperkirkgate as I was crossing the street and I literally caught my breath on seeing, for the first time, Marischal College in ALL of it’s glory, in the sunshine …. For the first time EVER I felt pride in this city – and was moved to tears by the beauty and impact and sheer majesty of what I saw!!! And every time I cross that street I look up and never cease to be amazed. PLEASE – do not build yet ANOTHER ‘modern’ glass monstrosity that is going to hide this amazing building!! Let it be seen! Marischal College is something that we should be celebrating and promoting for our tourists and visitors to Aberdeen!! It IS a masterpiece!!
I agree with all the comments about opening up the views to Marischal College and to Provost Skene’s House but the thing that really bothers me is the deliberate misinformation (at best) put forward by the developers, backed by the City Council. They state in their blurb that the new building will be significantly lower than St Nichols House – wrong. It will be lower than the tower block of St Nicks, but the part of St Nick’s which was opposite Marischal College was only three stories high. This new build, positioned closer to Marischal than St Nicks, will be eight to nine stories high, almost three times the height of the previous building. They also state that there will be no real problem with wind – again wrong. It was interesting to note that the most damage to the temporary covering to the tower block was on the lowest five floors, the area where wind turbulence is at its worst. This new build will extend that very real problem all the way accross to Upper Kirkgate. I think the Councillors need to be given a chance to see on site, the actual distances involved and the heights involved before this thing goes any further. Aberdeen is rapidly turning into the laughing stock of Scotland, where it could have so much to offer but continually delivers disasters.
“Div some see Alex Salmond
As a smarmy so an so?
Maist weemin it wid seem
Are listenin ti their heid”
That disnae seem like listenin ti yer heid. That seems like misunderstanding the entire reason for voting.
Misunderstanding?or confused?Tak yer pick. I sure as hell am confused bi the crap comin oot o baith the Yes camp and the No camp. Aat’s the wye am voting fer the status quo.
I dinae een ken tha Status Quo were in the runnin; aye, I’ll vote fa the Quo (how’s my Doric? Call 0800 555 1212)
Couldn’t agree more Bob. The level of debate is embarrassing and in the absence of any evidence – based argument for a Yes vote, it would appear that most weemin intend to vote based on rational thought rather than emotion and instinct.
At Salmond loon needs ti gie himsel a right shak if ye ask me min.
So the answers we have all been waiting for are to be found in Macduff! Not in Holyrood, Westminster, Strasbourg or Brussels but in Macduff!
Scotland is so “uniquely well equipped to be a successful independent country” that the proponents of Independence wish to rely on a foreign country for monetary policy, setting of interest rates, lender of last resort, allowing us to enter into a currency union with them, sharing their Head of State etc etc etc. We would be the most dependent Independent country in the world.
Lead on Macduff!!!
The energy of the Scottish Government would better used targeting the root causes of poverty rather than plastering over the cracks. The days of soup kitchens should be long gone.
Duncan,
Hope the soup kitchens arna staffed bi “Soup Dragons” 😀
Gettin ere Suzanne quine.
A ken am bein pickie bit the spellin needs touchin up.
“I didna e’en ken aat Status Quo war in the rinnin; aye a’ll vote fer the Quo”
Bit a gweed effort fae somebody fae across the Pond. 😀
ta loon
I always learn something new and spend a few minutes to think, when I’ve been reading an Old Susannah article.
Britain First are clearly quite challenged individuals, and the leader a Walter Mitty.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27427023
This article has been the most pretentious, pompous, rubbish I’ve yet read in Aberdeen Voice.
Cheers, hope it encourages you to submit.
with? http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/without+a+shadow+of+a+doubt
thank you for spotting our little error, ‘with’ should indeed have been ‘without’ – this is now amended.
I am tempted to apply for this building to be given listing provision (Cat C). A search on Historic Scotland’s database for similarly listed buildings/schools throws up some interesting results. Ultimately it would appear on paper to fit the historical and architectural requirements for such a listing. A listing would prevent demolition on any grounds. The decision to list is not made or indeed in the hands of the Council. I would happily apply for listing but would appreciate help in researching the history of the building andf its architecture.
A “must buy” I suspect and a good review.
This article has been the most optimistic and encouraging article I read this morning. It was the first article I read today. Sean you must mistaken enthusiasm with pomp.
“Aberdeen is the frontier town of consumer-capitalism… black gold in the sea and what should be a cultural hub from all the nations it attracts people from for their share of it, but its not…” I agree.
Good luck to all involved in “The Silver Lynx Sporadical” sounds like a great idea.
Some choice topics this week Suzanne. Football doesn’t interest me in the slightest, so I’ll skip that one.
Invasions are somewhat different. We’ve “invested” billions in supposedly “helping” those poor individuals in Afghanistan and Iraq. Very benevolent. Where did it get us? Well we seem to back to square one in the latter and the former was un-winnable in the first place. The poppy growers and heroin dealers triumphed. All we seem to have achieved is making life a lot more dangerous for ourselves, viz a viz 7/7 etc.
Deer need managed. That’s a fact of life. The problem is, as usual, the “experts” simply choose to ignore those who have successfully managed the species for generations – making a good few quid in the process.
Rhoddies are bonnie and, as you quite rightly say help our buzzing friends survive while we merrily go on our way trying to eradicate them with pesticides etc to enhance food production. The plant species has been known to be invasive for many’s a long year and there have been many interventions to stop it’s spread, some more effective than others. To eradicate it is going a wee bittie over the top however. Now giant hogweed would be a much better target methinks.
Romanians? Some years ago I flew, on a number of occasions with that country’s flag carrying airline, Tarom, to far off destinations. They were actually quite good, as airlines go. The lye over, in Bucharest, was spent in the cafe/bar in the airport where I had an interesting chat with one of the waiters. Expressing an interest in future exploration of his homeland, I was strongly advised not to. “Don’t leave the capitol,” I was told. “You will put yourself at risk.” Enough said. But, in saying that, every nation has it’s dodgy characters. Here in Aberdeen we have more than a couple of crime clans of local descent, so we have no room to talk really. Nigel Farage is an “English” phenomenon with little support north of Hadrian’s Wall. The main danger he poses to Scots is that if we fail to support independence, he may bring about the withdrawal of the UK from the EU and that would be disastrous for Scotland methinks. A bit of a dinosaur is our Nige. He could bring about the situation where those south of the border heartily sing, “Rule Brittannia!!” while the nation sinks beneath the waves instead of ruling them. Just a thought!
Farage has no support in Scotland?? hahaha
Did you miss the European election results? support is huge for a grassroots party, UKIP are being supported for a reason, they address peoples real concerns, the main left wing parties are being found out. Huge debt, mass uncontrolled immigration, illegal wars, the Country has had enough.
Well, let’s put it this way Bill: In Scotland, UKIP’s showing was pretty poor, compared to south of the border, down Watford way. Maybe we’re a more tolerant society in Scotland? If the UK pulls out of the EU, how many multi-nationals, who chose to locate in the UK as a gateway to Europe, would hang about? Millions of jobs could be lost to the indigenous population. Is that really what you want? My guess is that you’re right to a degree. Voters are dissatisfied with the mainstream parties and cast a protest vote. Will it recur at the next general election? Doubtfull, but we’ll just have to wait and see. Mass hysteria has been drummed up by Mr Farage and co, along with the tabloid press. Remember when he told us all that all of the population of theses countries would descend on us en masse?? Did it happen?
Scotland is a British country and it will be staying that way.
Sorry but you can’t hide from the facts here, over 80% of all shoplifting crime in London is carried out by Eastern Europeans, many many of those are Romanians. The more who come over the worse the problem gets, I said London but this story is replicated all over the Country, particularly the south of England. Many of these people have no intention of ever working here, what do you propose we do those types? I won’t even mention the human trafficking or prostitution gangs that are all predominately Eastern Europeans.
If they come to Aberdeen where do you propose we house them? we don’t have enough social housing for the indigenous people, actually we have a massive shortage, you can throw the racist card all you like but face facts, the Country simply isn’t in a position where any more immigrants can be provided for.
I agree on your comments re the Roddies, have never heard of them being a problem before, a lovely shrub.
“the indigenous people”. You’re a caird min Bill, brilliant.
How big is this racist card you want throwing at you, IMO ye cliché-ridden, statistic inventing, xenophobe? I’m nae that strong ye see, unlike those burly looking eastern europeans flooding the city.
Look at the court rolls for Aberdeen. The majority appearing in the Sheriff Court are local/UK residents. I’m not saying the problem doesn’t exist but it’s miniscule here compared to London and the South East. Changes to the benefits system have been put in place so those you complain about have to wait a fairly lengthy time to claim benefits.That’s fair and just. But UK citizens can hop over to mainland Europe and claim their much higher benefits as well remember.
On housing: Yes, there is a dearth of social housing. Why? Remember which government sold off council houses at knockdown prices and refused to build replacements? It wasn’t the SNP who have actually started a large scale rebuilding programme for social housing, not Labour or the Tories in Westminster. It would appear independence, while not the be all and end all, is a potential way forward in that and many other regards.
Leave the historic house as it is. Beautiful and a great centre point for the city.
Thought the wishes of the citizens were paramount in this plan for Broad Street redevelopment Seems not – as happened in the case of the UTG. Ask them what they would like to see – then do your own thing. Democratic governance – think not.
Provost Skene’s House has endured being hidden away these past few years and is finally emerging as the magnificent building and surroundings it ought to be admired for by the public. Its historic significance should be embraced and highlighted as a major feature of the heart of the City of Aberdeen. Not only is there the suggestion that yet again it is to be encapsulated by yet another glass monstrosity, the planners have the outright cheek to tamper with history by taking away the arch & wall….to what purpose does this serve? LEAVE WELL ALONE & let us true Aberdonians, other city dwellers & visitors/tourists enjoy what little is left that was built lovingly by our city forefathers for us & future generations. To admire and proudly present to the world, this IS Aberdeen, a beautiful unspoilt city…….
From what I understand the arch and wall wwhich are to be removed are not part of the original building, but were added some years ago in an attempt to enhance the appearanceof the building, arousing some controversy. The building itself is A-listed, and cannot be tampered with or altered in any way whatsoever.
Don’t touch it. I am so tired of the heritage of Aberdeen being demolished or moved. Please start retaining when we already have and keep all granite buildings “as-is”. When are the Planning Department, Council, etc going to realise that they are just infuriating the locals with their stupid attitude to change. I do wonder whether the people making these decisions actually have any real ties to Aberdeen.
With regard to the Muse Development plans for opposite Marischal College –
these go ‘completely against public opinion’ according to Councillor John Corall (Press & Journal 17/5/14). Additionally these now include proposals for the demolition of a part of Provost Skene’s House .
I have yet to meet anyone who thought these proposals other than banal and inappropriate and it seems most inequitable that a developer has power to virtually ‘cock a snook’ at what Aberdonians want for their city centre.
The frontage of Marischal College opposite is imaginative, splendid, dateless, dazzling, with a daring use of granite that we’ve never seen before.
Something equally innovative that can also stop us in our tracks is called for opposite. What could fill a relatively sizeable city centre site apart from office blocks and various glass structures? A single, breath-takingly modern building, a world class Institute of Offshore Technology.
A centre which would incorporate work already going on in this field, and at the same time reach out to the future.
Its proposed establishment in the ‘Oil Capital of Europe’ would take funding into a different zone altogether.
The oil industry would welcome it and contribute, while, of course, a few millions from Sir Ian Wood would not go amiss.
Diane Morgan- Published in P&J 4/6/14
With reference to the above comment by 4/06/14 ‘A single, breath-takingly modern building, a world class Institute of Offshore Technology’ ….’A centre which would incorporate work already going on in this field’ sounds more banal than what’s presently on the table. Has Diane Morgan employed a ghost writer?
Well spotted Steve … something obviously went wrong there when Diane Morgan entered her name. Fixed – Otherwise, Ah’ll nae tamper … as we generally dinna 😉
Thanks for that but Fred but, ‘A single, breath-takingly modern building, a world class Institute of Offshore Technology’ ….’A centre which would incorporate work already going on in this field’ I’m just surprised these are her words. A very different approach perhaps for a new book? I really find this odd that Diane’s passion and celebration for Aberdeen’s historic built and social environment has morphed into a need for an offshore show case. Aberdeen is already a show case for offshore technology. The last thing we need is for it to be showcased in the city centre. Too odd, far too odd.
Am I right in thinking that the SNP claim that independence will allow people a greater say in local democracy and power sharing. Because, if that is the case (from the above example) we can already see what the SNP do in practise.
Well Done Suzanne for making this go public! Last I heard was from yourself after seeing my rants over way my uncle was treated.! Just came across all this today by accident.!
Hello Karen, George’s case is getting some attention, and we’re hopeful the police may yet have to explain all of their actions. All the best
There is a considerable history of local authority democracy being held in what looks like contempt by central government. The shape of things to come?
Wouldn’t it be nice if an open green space were to replace St Nicholas House, somewhere to relax and take in the stunning architecture of Marishal College and Provost Skene’s House? Some flowerbeds, shrubbery and small trees with plenty of seating. Ah well, one can dream.
Gie me a winger
Like the Dons’ Arthur Graham
The ba wis his ain
Neen could tak it fae him
But gie me a left back
Like the great Ally Shewan
Jinky’s nemesis
Henderson’s ruin
A wis there on Sunday Duncan. A fair enjoyed the choochin billies. A wis chuffed ti see a BSA Bantam 175 motor bike on display as es wis the first bike a ained. As weel as aat there wis an Austin A30 motor car fit wis the first car a bocht. A can still myn the reg no. HRG 623. Bein o fairmin stock a wis interested in the display o auld tractors an it took Me back tae the 1950s/early 60s fin a drove ma faither’s Davie Broon 900 tractor. Gweed ti see sae mony young kids enjoyin the Punch an Judy show. There wis anither couple o “nae sae young kids”fa enjoyed it as weel. 😀
Cheers Bob. Was there on the Sunday as well. Drove a few bikes in my time but never a Bantam. Always wondered about the name though. Sounds a wee bit agricultural.
Nae commercial income in that, Ron.
I understand the need to make the city money on its land, but by hooky, it MUST be possible to find someone with the nous, imagination and bollocks to design something sympathetic, appropriate, open and still make a bob or two out of it?
Maybe not enough bobs to fill the funding gap?
Hi folks,
We finally have the numbers from this years 2014 event “2 North 4 South” – The exact amount that the event has managed to fundraise is £1483.33 for All Shapes And Sizes / and participants where free to raise money for any charity of their choice: £395 for D.A.W.G.S / £100 for Macmillan / £560 for Kidney Diagnosis at ARI / £72 for Breast Cancer Unit at ARI.
Also the event was planned for 70 folks, 18 booked in and 16 turned up on the day. And 2 managed to finish the event!
Great that our government are promoting this,but they cannot pretend that they are not promoting needless destruction of our beautiful land re AWPR esp Fast Link (development corridor) allowing urban sprawl all over Scotland.Our arable farmland is a non renewable resource and it is being covered in tarmac and concrete without a blink of the eye.Aberdeens wealth is based on a product that we that pollutes our air and sea,4m tons end up in the sea annually radio-active waste is a problem, so is plastic! Some day the true cost of our oil based society will be realised when the cost to our planet is factored into the whole production of oil and other extractive industries at the moment everyone is paying through the degrading of our natral environment and we do not yet realise what the true cost of that is yet ,
Couldn’t agree more; we’re not addressing our serious air pollution problems, we’re embracing urban sprawl, more pollution and tarmac all in the name of making yet more money. Someone in power should be getting the message, but I suspect nothing means more to those in charge than short=term profit (and all the usual money that follows big development)
Stewart Milne somehow gained permission to completely knock down and remove Dalhebity House in Bieldside, a beautiful listed mansion house and put a new build pastiche in its place. When I first moved to this end of Aberdeen, I went out for walks to explore the area and coming to the edge of the forest, I was able to see Dalhebity House and explored the ruined outbuildings, (I didn’t know I was on private land I just thought it was part of the forest). I feel very lucky I was able to see Dalhebity before it was destroyed, as I love period buildings.
Years later I discover it was Stewart Milne’s home which he knocked down (somewhere between 2007 to 2010), but what is very sad is that Dalhebity House was Princess Diana’s maternal grandmother’s (Baroness Fermoy) ancestral home where she was born and brought up.
In my opinion, Mr Milne SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED to destroy a listed building of important historical interest.
Seemingly Bob, some lucky better won a few quid from Betwise due to this episode. How did he know I wonder.
Foo Indeed Duncan
Who is “Jamie” ?
I suspect our Sarah will have blown on a few “cakes” in her time – maybe even made them wilt!
Nothing new then. And they call it, “the land of the free.”
Congratulations to the Gardenstown Gardeners – no “Slave Mentality” about them then!
Ah the para – gliders of the world unite to visit Gardenstown? With the absolute greatest of respect, this appears to confirm the suspicion of some that the majority of Yes campaigners do not exactly have their feet on the ground. Hope all the crowds flocking to see this landmark fly carefully.
Didn,t see many crowds flocking to see this at the weekend . Perhaps a dolphin carved in the hillside would be a more suitable , and lasting attraction . It,s a NO from me .
Or perhaps they could carve a giant pork pie so that those para – gliders caught up in the airborne traffic jams could be as one with the pie in the sky promises of the SNP led Yes Campaign.
Down with HMRC.
Typical response from the left wing no change to anything ever people on here, the one chance in our lifetime to have the chance to manage our own Country and some are too scared to grasp the opportunity, people are dying in many places over the World fighting for the right to have independence, in years gone by our forefathers fought for the right as well.
Why on earth would you want controlled by eton educated English people in London when we could have a better Country standing on our own two feet?? Do you think they care about anything North of Watford?
Ask yourself one question….why are they so desperate to keep us?
Hiya Billy,
Now why I am I not surprised you’re a gnashionalist? Don’t tell me, your four fathers were Wallace, Bruce, Rob Roy and the mannie who used to sell Green Finals at the top of Market Street, or you were refused membership of the English Defence League after failing the entrance examination.
I don’t know Bill, what are we to do with you? Here’s a chance to convert me though if you can explain to me how my life will be enhanced by voting to leave the UK. Should you provide any semblance of a compelling argument, I will personally fly over Gardenstown with a Yes banner trailing in the slipstream of my para – glider.
I’m not a nationalist, I’m just someone who believes we as a Country are more than capable of standing on our own two feet, I can’t promise your life will be enhanced, you stick with the current situation if you like, they’ve made a fine job of balancing the books and looking after our health service. I’m sure the new super dooper rail line running from the south of England to the midlands that’s going to cost billions will enhance your life, as will the multi Billion aircraft carriers and trident replacement.
All those illegal multi billion wars need fought as well, those will really enhance your life, good thing we have great bankers in London making all this money to pay for things, it would be a nightmare if they ever messed up and needed bailing out.
I honestly can’t understand why anyone living in any Country would want it governed elsewhere, particularly given how things have went with the union.
This is a perfect example of SNP double -speak. We have the entire SNP/ Yes Campaign asserting that reported comments, made by a mysterious un-named Minister, to the effect that Currency Union could be traded for the retention of Trident in an independent Scotland, is proof that such a deal is a possibility, yet Mr Allard maintains, as does the entire SNP/Yes Campaign, that the removal of Trident is guaranteed. It is somewhat difficult to negotiate on the basis of retaining something you have already pledged to remove.
This serial fantasy being spoon – fed to the terminally gullible surely cannot be sustained for another two months!!
Suzanne,
I always enjoy reading your informative and entertaining articles/columns but this one is exceptional and really did make me chuckle, as did Mr McKenna whose thoughts on the donning of “highland dress” are spookily similar to my own.
As if the World Cup wasn’t ridiculous enough, with it’s extremely effete participants rolling around on the ground and screaming in pink and yellow bootees for the mere pittance of around £300,000 per week, we now have our own tartan caricature of what used to be a sporting event with which to “showcase Scotland”.
Superb work!!!!
Ask yourself one question….why are they so desperate to keep us?
Sorry forgot that, find one compelling reason then please do say, I can’t think of one that doesn’t support voting yes.
The amount of overbearing security, really gives a hint as to the contempt Aberdeen City Council feels for its citizens.
Hi Bill,
1. I hate to break it to you but you are, whether you like it or not and by definition, a nationalist.
2. The Health Service in Scotland is already a devolved issue and not the responsibility of Westminster but the current SNP Government on Scotland.
3. Voting for separation will not, according to Nicola Sturgeon who expressed a willingness to negotiate on this issue, guarantee getting rid of Trident.
4. Saying repeatedly that a war is illegal does not make it so and there is always the possibility, no matter how unlikely, that an illegal war may be launched against us by another state. I assume you would then re – assign the Gardenstown para – gliders to defend us from rocket attacks.
5. The worst culprit in the banking meltdown was the Edinburgh based RBS, led by well known Scot – Fred Goodwin. The proposed vision of Independence on offer is based on the discredited assumption that a foreign country will step in to save Scotland if they do the same again.
6. The Union is far from perfect but what we are being asked to vote in favour of is a child – like fantasy based on nothing more than the hope and expectation that we are sufficiently stupid not to see how silly the whole thing is. The SNP ask us to accept a proposal that the whole of Europe will do what Scotland tells them because, well just because. This is not Independence, it is insanity.
I dont know who was responsible for security, but they certainly achieved the effect of an airport under siege. We arrived with pet (a dog) to be met with a large notice that said “NO animals”, and wondered if the animals in residence in UTG had been informed. There was also “NO catering”, NO drinking” NO eating” NO chairs (esp.plastic ones). We also were not allowed to see into the gardens, having been effectively barred from them. I would like to know why such high screens were necessary. The garden was not filled to capacity, and no access to Union Street was allowed along Union Terrace. The security woman with the sheep counter had a tally of 15 people on the terrace. Two unfortunate guests to the city and staying in the Caledonian Hotel had to persuade security to let them return to base. It really took all the joy out of the occasion.
With the threatened destruction apparently required of the wall and gateway seen so clearly in this photograph it astounds as to the extent that this elevation will be obscured in the proposed development. Is there a single coherent thought left in the planning department of Aberdeen City Council ? WHY has it reached the stage where massed online protest is trying to protect this pleasant antiquated environment ? Here’s a clue if you’re stuck. It’s the word ‘protect’ ….. I give up. I absolutely give up.
Bang on the nail, Suzanne! Always the problem – one lie necessitates another and then another until the cover-up becomes unsustainable.
Deer and trees don’t mix, I know that as an ex-landowner and conservationist, trees and deer don’t mix at all.
The deer in Tullos are caught in a vice grip and I certainly don’t envy them. Yes, they will be killed, and reduced in numbers and yes of course right minded folk will grieve when they are gone.
The expansionist nature of Aberdonians is at odds with the countryside.
Deer, rabbits, lovely bunnies and nice houses don’t mix.
Deer and trees did not have to mix on Tullos Hill – 3,000 people and several community councils told Aileen Malone and the rangers that they wanted the hill to say as a meadow, continuing to support the stable deer herd that was there. This arbitrary tree scheme and deer don’t mix, particulary when some of those pushing it seem to have had a pro-culling agenda from the start (NB deer and trees do mix in the right conditions by the way)
Successfully established in a stable herd? What can you mean?
thank you Duncan for alerting me to a rather awkward sentence which has now been I trust made clearer. Feel free to point out such issues, writers and sub-editors do appreciate the help.
Glad to here some people up here are aware of the dangers of these “deals”.So much for democracy and the unfree free market.
NB, that is certainly a matter of opinion.
Can you explain what ‘that’ you are referring to, which you think is ‘certainly a matter of opinion’? I think you’ll find there are many areas which have both trees and deer. In fact many landowners are protesting the guidelines as to how few deer the SNH want allowed on land according to their controversial guidelines; this has been very widely publicised. If it is something else that you think is a matter of opinion, spell it out so we have some idea what you are trying to say.
A golfer of my acquaintance predicted all this years ago, Bob, as being of particular significance re televised contests & championships – complete but unpredictable white-oot. That and the perishing cold, a real problem for elderly Americans accustomed to playing their golf in Florida.
1) This article doesn’t mention the writer is an SNP MP
2) Health spending in Scotland is completely devolved. Thus making this article bogus.
3) Has AberdeenVoice declared for YES? It should make its position clear.
The article identifies the writer; there is no attempt to cover up who it is. As to Aberdeen Voice taking a position on this or any other issue, as per the home page “Aberdeen Voice is a weekly independent online news and information source. It promotes Citizen Journalism in Aberdeen and the North East and is not affiliated to any Political Party or the interests of any private company, lobby or third party organisation. Its focus is to give a voice to the general public in the North East and to promote inclusion in affairs affecting the region.” If you disagree with this article, then by all means please do submit your own piece; it would be welcome
Agree with Alex
Too many puff pieces from SNP politicians appearing in the Aberdeen Voice. This is hardly citizen journalism.
It’s a funny thing Mike; I can think of several organisations, some local, that will try all sorts of things to silence any opposition or criticism. When it comes to AV, as you well know, we publish what comes in and don’t impose a view or agenda. Why not write your own piece on the other side of the coin?
Having had to counter such claims many times, on many different issues over the past 4 years, I hope you will forgive the following cut’n’paste job. Hopefully it will clarify where AV stands, and has stood from the outset.
“I am sorry you feel that we have strayed from our neutral stance, and can see what leads you to this conclusion. We at Aberdeen Voice can only process what is contributed, and as long as articles do not breach or fall short of our criteria for publication, we treat each with equal favour.
Lately, more contributions have come from persons associated or involved with SNP and/or pro independence groups. Other than block, censor, or refuse to process any/all of these, which would go against our agreed principles and procedures, all we can do is to encourage anyone who believes we are not presenting a balanced menu to contribute material which challenges, or offers an alternative view/angle.
I also remember the SNP’s activities with regard to Menie and UTG, and over that period of time ( when we were accused of being anti-Trump, anti-development, anti-golf, anti-everything), I assured SNP supporters/members as well as others who levelled said accusations at us, that they were as welcome to write for us as anyone. The fact they failed to do so only maintained the perceived bias ( in their eyes at least ). Nothing has changed regard this approach. We are merely dealing with each article as it arrives in a manner which, within limits of legality, taste and quality, makes no judgement about the personal standpoint of the source.
Like a jar is made of clear glass, and only becomes a ‘green sweetie jar’ if all that is put into it are green sweeties, Aberdeen Voice remains the colourless jar and will display what is contributed in the exact proportion and shade of what writers and contributors add to it.
Funny enough, only a few weeks ago, on our facebook page, it was suggested we were a mouthpiece for the ‘NO’ campaign!
Next week? Who knows? Whatever happens, we will continue to process all articles which pass our criteria for publication, established and adhered without amendment in the 4 years we have been operating, regardless of the sociopolitical leanings of the writer/contributor, and regardless of suggestions that we appear to favour a particular side of any argument or issue.
As I say, I can understand there may appear to be an element of bias at times, but the perceived balance/imbalance of Aberdeen Voice is as much to do with those who don’t contribute as those who do, and although I appreciate your honesty, and understand why you have directed your comments to us, surely there is some scope to question why it is that other parties/campaigns are failing/not attempting to use our service.
Whatever the reason(s), they are not ours to address. Our neutrality extends to not actively lobbying any particular party/campaign to provide us with material, even if it would counteract any perceived imbalance.
However, I am satisfied that we have made it clear to all who question, and more besides, that we welcome material from all sides/camps, and should the situation change in terms of the nature and balance of what is contributed, then I assure you this will be reflected in the contents of AV.”
The complaints of pro – Independence bias are, in my view, not only unfair but miss the most important point. I have failed to discern any hint of bias on the part of AV and it would surely be considered strange were they to refuse to publish any article on the basis that those of an opposite view failed to take the opportunity to submit an equal number or indeed any at all. For my own part, I have not done so for fear that AV may in turn become yet another forum for the endless banality of the Referendum “debate”.
What I find objectionable is that, having been given the opportunity by AV to state their case for, or provide positive publicity for Independence and/or the SNP, the contributors consistently fail to respond when challenged on the accuracy or veracity of the claims they make. Such an approach appears to be at odds with my perception of the spirit of AV and is, in my view, impolite. Perhaps contributors might be reminded that in taking the opportunity to voice their opinions, they might accept the responsibility to respond to any respectful challenge to their often bizarre claims.
I’ll say well said and thank you for that Bruce
And so the nationalists continue to mislead people by suggesting that a vote for Independence will ensure that nuclear weaponry is removed from Scotland. Christian Allard and his colleagues cannot make promises on behalf of a future Government of an independent Scotland and cannot predict the outcome of negotiations between any such future government and that of the remaining member nations of the UK. Furthermore, the SNP Deputy First Minister has publicly stated that the existing Trident system will be included in any negotiations concerning the SNP declared preference for currency union with the UK.
Opinion will be divided on whether Mr Allard is merely mistaken or is deliberately seeking to mislead the more gullible members of the electorate. Given the consistency with which the SNP and the wider Yes Campaign employ such tactics, my own view is that it is definitely the latter.
I look forward to Mr Allard’s refusal to attempt to justify such cynical propaganda.
Bruce,
We do know for certain that if we vote no they’ll be staying 100% where they are. vote yes and we’ll have our own government that can then decide if they go or not, one gives us hope that they may go the other doesn’t.
Just an odd argument against independence, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Let’s decide for ourselves whether we as a nation need trident, I don’t believe we do.
I think the articles (like the one above), that have appeared in Aberdeen Voice in the run up to the referendum, will in fact encourage people to vote no to independence.
I`m confused 🙂
I`m probbly voting no.
There are a few fundamental`s I need to put in place before I can make an informed decision ;O)
Can i ask, and this is kinda off topic just a little.
If I visit a doctor and get referred to either a surgeon or a chemist. Is there any financial gain for the referring Doctor?
Oh, and if Scotland gets independance, will they drop corp tax a little to allow big business who threaten to move south an incentive to stay.
Will we be left with two big dodgy banks
can we stay out of Europe
Will Scottish silver spoons be just as bad as the Silver spoons plaguing westminster?
If independence is granted, does it mean snp will come to power automatically, or will there be a vote
if say Scottish labour “get in”, wont they just campaign to get back into Britain?
will we see the emergence of new parties
Can we treat criminals like criminals and not victims?
would we have an effective military force? ( I`m guessing strong military ties are in order,England cant afford a weak neighbour)
Also, will England go to war to protect oil revenue (Sounds far fetched, but it happens)
Doesnt oil and gas from North Sea land at Berwick upon tweed?
will pedophilia be properly investigated “up top” with no obvious stalling tactics and cabinet reshuffles
In Scotland, will we differentiate between some one who abuses 13-16 yr olds and someone who abuses 0-12 yr olds?
Will we the have death sentence back? It doesnt have to be in a nasty revengeful manner, just a bit of general anesthetic overdose, free up the prisons a little, save taxpayer a few quid (Do-gooders are just x-cons with time on their hands to lobby gov)
Do Scottish banks have to give the bank of England £5 in order to print a £5 note? and if so, if independance in realised, does the Scottish bank get its money back?
Will i need a passport to visit England
Couple of plus points for Scotland
Oil will boom as a result ( I reckon) as we distance ourselves a little from imperial legacies
Terrorist threats will decrease (same reason)
Scottish Athletes to cheer on at olympics (that would be awesome!!)
Any one else got any plus points, the ability to set our own taxes is hardly an incentive? :O)
Its WEDNESDAY 6th August not Tuesday as the map says!
Ooops … Of course it is David, Cheers for spotting the error and pointing it out. Amended now.
Here a second video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZmaMRXzMM
To my mind angling is a far more strange activity and what is the point of catching a fish just to put it back.The salmon fisheries are a part of our heritage as well and have been around a lot longer than angling.
I hope that a way can be found to dissuade the seals to leave the nets alone. Our whole natural world is being degraded by mankind activities on land sea and air and our politicians are even talking about mining on the moon and living on Mars who is going to give them permission oh I forgot they just do as they think best and lie to get what they want I agree with Suzanne their are more important things to focus on,we need to change things but intimidation will not bring about a useful solution for all concerned.
Hi John,
Slavery was part of our heritage too. It didn’t make it right. USAN in fact are big business which fishermen of old were not. It’s a different world today and our rivers and fish stocks have suffered from over fishing, pollution and commonly; like in the Ythan from farming methods. Nitrogen rich feeds washed off the fields into the river, encouraged algae which changed the whole environment of the water, starving it of oxygen and the Salmon and trout which lived there suffered. Similar stories in rivers across Scotland. With this, of course Salmon stocks plunged through the floor. They couldn’t thrive and were not able to breed in the same numbers. In the case of the Ythan, this is something that river management have worked hard on and to their credit, anglers have supported their efforts by returning most of their catch. Enormous amounts of time and money have been invested in trying to improve Salmon stocks in the rivers and along come netsmen who purchase heritable fishing titles which have lain dormant for many years and start scooping up the fish that river management have introduced and nurtured to breed. I don’t see that as right.
Seals don’t normally eat a lot of salmon. They are too lazy. Faeces samples tend to show that they eat flounders and mackerel and other slow and readily available fish. Of course if you start netting near a seal haul out you are asking for trouble. That’s like leaving sweeties out when there are kids around. Hunt Sabs actually wear snood type masks not balaclavas. They wear them to protect their own identity, not to intentionally intimidate. Remember of an evening they have to mix in the same communities and this is for they’re own protection. Their safety could be at risk if they are spotted. If you read my comments below, I’ve come across USAN and they were intimidating!
Hi Vic Thanks for your comments and I do agree with them big business does tend to degrade our environment I have seen this in our countryside with the loss of numbers of our wildlife I can remember when every wee burn was full of trout and hares were a common sight this is just a sad fact not nostalgia.I will try to be more informed when I make comments in future
All the best
Hi Suzanne, I have already posted a response on the Stop The Ythan Seal Cull Facebook page. I hope you don’t mind if I repost here verbatim. I’d encourage anyone who enjoys the seals to join our page and join us. We are seal friendly. I digress.. My post.
Not sure that this is representative of the Pullars as Kirstin Wilkie, Andrew Wilkie, Morag Allan, Scott Hogg and I encountered them on the Estuary and found them Threatening and Intimidating. George warned the Ellon Times Photographer not to use his photo. Kirstie Ross, is he on this group? He also made threats to Scott.
The caught Salmon may be dispatched swiftly but they are caught in a net where they struggle to free themselves for hours. Hardly a trauma free event. As Michael Wood, said, it almost reads as if you feel sorry for the Pullars!?
You mention Elephant Rock in your photo. You might want to discuss it’s dark secrets with Elaine Roft.
Members of our group have met and I have been contacted by the Sabs who watch them at USAN. You seem to have accepted without evidence that anti terrorist police are interested in their activities.
They aren’t happy about that. But don’t worry they aren’t terrorists and are against violence in all forms. This weekend Sea Shepherds have once again intervened to prevent USAN from shooting seals. I think this was on Sunday ?Rob Read.
This was whilst legally they should not be fishing but were once again breaking the law.
USAN who trade as The Scottish Wild Salmon Company are already due in court.. AGAIN.
I have to give you credit though. I would never have gone out in a boat with these violent men.
I have though spent time chatting with Sea Shepherds and would do that quite happily any time.. I hope to visit them on location again soon. And I shall remember wine. Vegan of course!
Dear Victor, Thanks for making these excellent points. The purpose of this article was to record the day George Pullar took me out to see him in action and to put his points across. Having published the piece, it is exactly comments like yours I hope to see – thanks. I mentioned Elephant Rock specifically; the story is that the bodies of many seals were found there. Perhaps I’ll get some evidence for this, and other issues for the follow-up piece that I’m about to start, which will be the other side of the equation to USAN’s. And yes, it was absolutely horrible to see these salmon being destroyed. (Victor – hope you can get to watch the two videos soon)
The Aberdeen Voice article is in many ways fair and accurate but the comment “Having published the piece, it is exactly comments like yours I hope to see” politicises the piece in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable.
I confess to some bias here of course. The last time I met with George’s dad Dave was in the course of researching an article for the Leopard, he commentated then that many folk came to sit in his kitchen to take tea then wrote articles criticising his fishing of wild salmon.
My question is this: Is it right to write an article, moderate comments on it and also make comments regarding it?
Thanks for your question Duncan. Sorry that you feel uncomfortable. The main purpose of my article was to start a debate, and that’s what Vic Beattie is doing, and I’m grateful for it. I’m sorry if you think that opinion has no place in either article or commentary; I disagree with you there. In terms of moderating – for clarity, moderating posts is an editor’s job at AV, it entails making sure posts are legal, don’t descend into slanging matches and so on. Every comment that’s come in has been published in full without editing; they’ve hardly all been complimentary to me, but I’m publishing them. In an ideal world, other editors would be doing this task, but most of the rest of the team are off on holidays and so on. But for the record, we have many many contributors who have written articles and then gone on to comment on them. If I were selectively moderating, then I’d see your point.
PS Duncan – I note your comments about Dave Pullar offering hospitality to people and then being disappointed at what they write. Perhaps this is why I don’t ever accept any hospitality from anyone / any organisation I’m going to write about, not even a glass of water.
My question is still: Is it right to write an article, moderate comments on it and also make comments regarding it?
well Duncan, my answer is yes in this context. I thought that since I explained that I’m not moderating/editing/withholding any comments, that would have been the end of the issue for you, my fellow Aberdeen Voice contributor.
Again, no comments received have been altered; they’re all up there and no moderation, only approval, was required. Here’s a question – do you write articles and comment on them? Yes you do. Do I respond to comments on my articles, be it the one in question or other ones – of course I do – it’s called dialogue. It’s for me the most valuable part of writing – to get a dialogue going, get the perspective of others, and examine issues. And pro-USAN comments will be equally welcome.
Of course, a writer could stick to completely safe subjects and avoid any controversy, and churn out bland anodyne prose that couldn’t possibly upset anyone (or interest anyone). But I’m not interested in that kind of writing. I think you’ll find there is plenty of precedent for a writer to have opinions and include them in their articles, and be involved in any subsequent discussion that takes place. In terms of a writer having bias, did you see the Sunday Times article belittling/mocking Pamela Anderson for speaking out against the whale slaughter which Sea Shepherd is trying to prevent in the Faroes?
It is heartening to see the people of North East Scotland are beginning to see the potential of independence. Scotland is a rich and diverse country who’s strengths should be utilized to support it’s population, not punish them with the austerity measures emminating from Westminster. It is obscene that we have food banks in 21st century Scotland. It is despicable that the sick and disabled are being financially punished for the incompetence of Westminster politicians and bankers while billions are to be spent on nuclear weapons we cannot use.
The prize of independence will be a government that we can elect and depose, if necessary. That is something we can never do with Westminster.
Ach Suze, the Commonwealth Games uniforms were …. erm …. colourful. The Scotties and dancing teacakes were fun. Everyone had a ball (excluding some of the police and security staff it seems) and everyone fell madly in love with the lovable Weegies. A good few medals were forthcoming so it wasn’y a bad show after all.
Armed police? Well we’ve had them in airports for many’s a long year and I don’t recollect any of them shooting at random to move the queues on a bitty faster. Armed police have always been present in our midst, just not so highly visible. Strange, it’s the politicians and press that are leading the wails of anguish, not many members of joe public seem so perturbed. Personally, if I was in the process of being mugged and a gun toting cop appeared, pulled out his weapon and placed it to the temple of my assailant, I would be for ever grateful. If it happened to go off in any ensuing struggle it would save the country a small fortune in legal and custodial costs. It costs a small fortune to give out Community Service Orders which can be onerous as sitting in premises off King Street drawing pictures etc. That does a whole lot to serve the community. Let’s face it, there’s a section of the community who need to be kept in check so the rest of us can live relatively in peace. If certain individuals have to change their nether garments because a bobby pulls out his weapon, I’m all in favour. You must be well aware that certain criminal elements have access to guns (notably in the drug dealing fraternity) and that has to be combatted.
Aberdeen has one of the highest level of CCTV resources in the country. Personally, I feel safer because of that. Snooping by private companies is another thing. Of course, we could all turn of our mobile phones in the BID district and thwart them, but we’re a lazy lot. Apparently Facebook are even better at it and, if you’re really clever, you can thwart them also. The joys of new technologies eh.
Charitable trusts have always been a vehicle for tax evasion. Worse, in my view, are the companies that make a small fortune badgering us to support some charity or other while not advising us that up to the first year of “giving” to the good cause goes in to the coffers of the chugging company. Bit of a bummer that.
Finally poverty: We are, apparently, one of the richest nations on earth. We can afford nuclear weapons, but can’t afford to support the poorest and most vulnerable in society. Kids go hungry and pensioners freeze. Bankers and politicians in Westminster cause mayhem and expect the poorest in society to pay the cost of their little fiasco. Maybe independence will improve matters, maybe it won’t. One thing’s for sure, if the wealth of the nation was actually used for the benefit of it’s residents, that would be no bad thing and we would actually have a government that we directly elect and can remove should we choose to. That would be no bad thing either.
Here’s a thought Ron. The Police witness a struggle but are unsure who is the mugger and who is the potential victim and shoot you by mistake. Still grateful?
I think you would find , in that scenario Bruce, the facts would be self evident. Perhaps the person screaming, “HELP!” might give some guidance?
Yet more empty rhetoric, devoid of any substance or intellectual argument whatsoever. What are these visions which Mr Cassie seems unwilling to share with us? Do they include an aspiration to tell us what currency we are to use or are they simply of the Jeanne D’Arc variety.
This reads like a German propaganda bulletin circa 1936!!!!
Perhaps you have not received the booklet, “Scotland’s Future. What Independence Means For You,” Bruce. My copy dropped through the letter box yesterday and makes interesting reading. It states facts, not fiction, the norm from the “Better Together” group. It is genarally accepted by most leading, independent, economists, along with the vast majority of politicians, that Scotland is perfectly capable of going it alone and being successful in so doing. The lack of confidence in our nation by those residing there is concerning in the extreme.
So why don’t you share some of these “facts” with us then Ron?
No doubt you’ll get your own copy Bruce and be able to read and digest it at your leisure
There aren’t really any “facts” at all are there Ron. I will simply leave it at that and leave readers to ponder your failure to substantiate your claim.
Ok so Little Red Riding Hood would be safe whilst the rest of is would just have to take our chances then. Your blind faith in the forces of law and order, or at least our very own new State Police Force, suggests an endearing child – like innocence on your part. Ron. Unfortunately, some of us have direct experience of the serious issues related to the routine arming of police officers. Believe me, it is not something to be treated lightly.
In my limited experiences with The Police and legal system Bruce, I have always found them to be professional and competent. Perhaps yours differ for whatever reason.
Given such a level of professionalism and competence, how do you think your experiences would be improved by the routine wearing of firearms?
new petition against routinely arming police is here http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/disarm-the-scottish-police-now
My daughter and two of her friends actually won the Bucksburn academy leg of the Wood family trust competition, the food bank in Aberdeen that benefited from the £3000 were over the moon. All the kids who took part actually went to visit and work with their chosen charities, many of them still do to this day.
How on earth can you find a downside on what is a great initiative? In my opinion you’re bitter at any local rich person, one only needs read your weekly vitriol on Trump, Wood and Milne but for god sake, credit where credit is due. This is a nationwide project and gets kids interacting with charities, as you’ll have researched this perhaps you’ll tell your readers how many charities benefit “yearly” from the £3000 gifts?
How easy it would be for Mr Wood to go buy an island and give two fingers up to the World, instead he invests time and money into his charity, you really think someone of his age is doing this to hide a few quid from the taxman?? One wonders if he’d not upset the author here by daring to improve the City if he’d still come under attack.
Dear Author,
You may have missed the question but I did ask how many of these £3000 gifts are handed out yearly? could you please be so kind to answer it.
Its great to mention tax avoidance, but I cant help but think a good percentage of tax revenue is just simply wasted.
if your talking about big multinational corps then fine, but the only way for the man in the street to get rich is tax avoidance, Our economy doesnt work if everyone is rich and nobody is poor. If you are poor, then its the economy’s job to keep you that way. New money upsets the balance.
Bruce,
Does it matter what currency we’ll use?
As I read someone saying elsewhere, I’d barter goats if it gave us independence. Life is full of uncertainties, why vote no because you have some, do you really feel Scotland is best served being ran from London? Have they done such a good job that you don’t trust the Scottish people to match up to them?
They love us so much they don’t want us to leave, even though they state they cost us more per head than anywhere else, do you really believe this?
Bizarre situation when many people feel we’re better off not being ran by our own people, those toffs from Eton will see us ok.
Thank you Bill. I feel you have encapsulated the nationalist cause perfectly and your honesty is to be commended. One might think there would not be too many willing to revert to bartering goats for the right to claim Independence but it would appear you represent more than 30% of the electorate. Unfortunately, most of them make false claims about currency and a land of milk and honey to hide their maniacal nationalist fervour. You, on the other hand, are not in my opinion intellectually equipped to do so and, therefore, allow us a rare insight to the nationalist psyche.
I won’t bore you and Ron with too many facts but would simply remind any readers of the potential consequences of not caring about currency. Governments do not have any money but have a responsibility to provide basic things such as health services, education, pensions and the like. Traditionally, there are two methods of raising money to pay for such things. These are taxation and borrowing. High levels of personal taxation can and often do result, for a variety of reasons, in a reduced overall tax take for governments but, nevertheless, provide a substantial part of the required finance. The rest is raised by borrowing. Governments issue bonds, or IOU’s, which are purchased by interested parties with sufficient confidence in the currency and economy of that country. Governments must repay this borrowed money at a rate of interest determined by the “markets” thereby creating a national debt. The lower the confidence, the higher the rate of interest. Confidence is usually gained by a stable currency and what the “markets” deem to be a responsible approach to spending and borrowing. Small things, such as a refusal to pay a share of national debt or a decision to barter goats would inevitably lead to a collapse in confidence and inevitable bankruptcy. For those, such as yourself, who are happy to live the live of a bankrupt Bedouin, for the cause of Independence, this is not a problem but may not be an option for others.
You’re hiding from the main point, do you honestly believe the Scottish people are not going to have a viable currency by the time of the split? you deep down believe a government of our own wouldn’t be capable of doing this?
All over the World countries way worse off than us are managing just fine yet you believe we’re a special case, a Country who needs run by its neighbour.
You carry on living your life in fear, I do wonder how you ever manage to leave your front door of a morning though, what if you get hit by a lorry crossing the road??
For the record I’m no nationalist, have never voted SNP in all my days, in a Country of our own I’d most likely vote Conservative.
Thanks for the speel on World money markets btw, most interesting, 🙂
Dialogue may or may not have a place in writing. Depends whether you are writing for a daily or for the future. What happened to my piece about the Queen?
Thanks for your comment. Very glad you feel dialogue may or may not have a place in writing.
Again, it would be helpful for readers if we keep the in house technical stuff off of the comments page. For readers who might not know what Duncan means when asking on this piece about his article on the queen, he submitted an article which can be found here https://aberdeenvoice.com/2014/08/turra-show-celebrates-third-half-century/
I have no idea why it reverted to draft instead of published, Duncan; but I have published it again. Readers – from time to time I fill in on the technical side of this website, and do as good a job as I can. Readers can now read this piece on the Turriff show, and how Usan offered ‘mouthwatering’ wild caught salmon at same.
But Duncan – please do email the team when it is a team issue you are interested in – the comments section is for comments on the article in question. 🙂
Bruce,
No one is claiming it will be a land of milk and honey, I’m not even saying it will be any better, it will be a Country being ran by the people who live here though, we rarely get the government we vote for in Scotland, instead we’re ruled from London by the vote of middle England, I simply don’t see why you oppose the democratic wishes of your countrymen.
Actually thinking back I believe you did oppose the democratic wishes of your fellow city dwellers when it came to the gardens so it isn’t anything new.
As ever in these types of debate they’re pointless, you’ve already decided your vote, sadly it appears it’s down to fears and the what ifs, you go ahead and stick with the status quo, those fine people running our Country so well at the moment.
BTW As you’re so well versed in money markets perhaps you’ll tell us what our national debt currently stands at? please tell us how well the people you want to stick with are doing? TIA.
Mods, In the interests of fairness I don’t believe the personal attack on my self in Bruce’s reply should have been allowed to stand, debate is welcome, abuse isn’t. I’ve had many posts chopped in the past, no doubt he’s a friend of yours but please try to be impartial.
Dear Bill- the sentence “Unfortunately, most of them make false claims about currency and a land of milk and honey to hide their maniacal nationalist fervour. You, on the other hand, are not intellectually equipped to do so and, therefore, allow us a rare insight to the nationalist psyche.” has been changed to read “You, on the other hand, are not in my opinion intellectually equipped to do so and, therefore, allow us a rare insight to the nationalist psyche.”
This is the only personal comment I can find in the post; if you know of more, do let us know. And again, as explained previously, Bruce is not a friend.
Bill,
I have witnessed posts from you in the past which have been, in my view, gratuitously offensive and which, in my view, have directed personal insults at contributors to this site. The nature of some of your comments have been, at times, bizarre and, in my view, spectacularly ill – informed, to such an extent that members of the editorial team have even felt the need to declare that you are indeed a “real person”. It is, therefore, unbecoming to complain when someone merely points out the extremely obvious.
In my opinion, your comments are consistently lacking any intellectual substance whatsoever and, in this instance, you fail to provide anything other than unsophisticated emotional rhetoric.
Should you, or anyone else for that matter, be in a position to provide a positive and logical argument in favour of Independence, I would be happy to consider it with respect. Until then, I will continue to pour scorn on this entire campaign of quasi – patriotic nonsense.
In your vitriol you forgot to answer all my perfectly valid points further up. You really do not have any time for your fellow Countrymen do you? People wanting the Country they live in to be governed by the people who live here is patriotic nonsense…aye ok mate. 🙂
Biased moderating in my opinon I’m afraid, if I suggested he wasn’t intellectually equipped in my opinion we both know it wouldn’t be printed. Remember the title of your site here.
Dear Bill Stephens, The answer to your question is that I don’t know how many school children have been made to compete against each other, or how many charities have expended energy on a competitive exercise, only to walk away with no funding. It’s to me rather a cruel exercise – ‘winner take all’ competitive approach to doing charitable works, which is decided on a voting system – and there is a tendency for friends to vote for friends. What I do know is that £50,000,000 is sitting around somewhere, and a few million has been spent on administering the scheme, while we have people in Scotland needing to use food banks. Animal charities are under more stress than ever before – and such charities are exempt from consideration of this scheme. To me it’s controlling, it’s unfair, it teaches that winning is all, and inevitably charities will invest their valuable time competing against others and walk away with nothing from a scheme run by a billionaire.
Every secondary school in Scotland is involved in the scheme. The charities have to expend no energy what so ever, the schoolchildren do all the work. In an ideal World it would be great to give every charity money but of course that isn’t possible. Your friends voting for friends comment is way wide of the mark, the judging panel comprises of teachers, they decide who wins on the merit of the debate put by the children.
As I’ve previously said the winner this last year in Bucksburn was the Someone cares food bank, they got £3000 that they were delighted about, obviously Aberdeen has many secondary schools so tens of other local charities benefited. The kids get to engage and work with charities, they learn debating skills and the bonus is some charities get much need cash, you may deem that a cruel exercise I think the opposite, I think it’s a very valuable lesson for children not far from embarking on adult life.
Don’t you agree that even having a charitable trust and funding it to the tune of £50 Million is an admirable act? I think you’ve dropped the ball on this one and your dislike of Mr Wood has taken over.
BTW If you can back up your argument with some hard evidence I’d love to hear it, perhaps a single charity that felt the scheme wasn’t good for them and actively cost them time or money? Look forward to your response.
I can’t wait for the wail of anguish from the “no” voters when the government of their choice delays, prevaricates, or just plain forgets/refuses to honour pledges made to Scotland. They have a track record of this unfortunately. You should have watched the excellent programme on BBC2 last night Bruce, presented by Andrew Neill. It showed the true reasons why Westminster is so reluctant to lose Scotland, something we, in the “yes” camp have always known..
Like yourself, I would also look forward to seeing the SNP failing to deliver on their grandiose promises were the Scottish people decide to vote for Independence. I suspect, however, that the loudest wails would be from the Yes voters who would find their blind faith had been misplaced. The No voters would undoubtedly be extremely angry despite being in a position to say they told you so.
I did see the programme but did not interpret the content in accordance with the Nationalist orthodoxy. I did, however, conclude that Trident will not be going anywhere. An independent Scotland of five million dictating to both the UK and USA seems fanciful at best. Indeed, this is beginning to sound more and more like an Ally McLeod team talk circa 1978.
Did you get anywhere with those “facts” yet Ron?
Dearie me Bruce. You have such little faith in your fellow countrymen. No doubt you’ll be castigating Canada and New Zealand for their audacity in moving forward to successful independence? if they can do it, so can we.
Thought this may be of interest. This is feedback from the YPI scheme.
Case Study: What happens next?
Putting the children first
We’re always glad to hear some fantastic post-programme
engagement stories from our students, teachers, or charities
and in 2012/13 a group of pupils from Westhill Academy
in Aberdeenshire were a great example when they became
increasingly involved with their chosen charity – successfully
raising thousands of pounds for Children 1st.
Despite losing out on the £3000 YPI grant, the S3 group of pupils
– Kelvin, Callum, Nathan, Stephen and Ola – wanted to continue
to support their chosen charity. They went on to deliver their
final presentation in front of over 300 ladies at a fund-raising
lunch in Westhill, collecting £11,000. As well as this, the group
visited a nearby primary school where they presented to parents,
raised awareness of the charity and in turn, increased their funds.
Puppy love
A group of pupils from Crieff High School, Perth and Kinross, had
a slightly different follow up to YPI where they had the honour
of naming a Guide Dog puppy. S2 pupils Nina, Danielle, Eilidh and
Iona chose to support Guide Dogs Scotland when they took part
in YPI this year. After losing out in the final, the pupils went on
to raise more than £1500 for the charity – the target amount to
allow them to name a puppy. This was reached by fund-raising
activities including organising a musical extravaganza named ‘The
Cold Wet Nose Appreciation Society’ at a local hotel. The group
have now set a target of a further £1000 to sponsor the puppy to
become a fully-fledged guide dog. The pupils chose two names
– Alfie and Bobbie – and the school voted, with Alfie being the
number one choice by 5 votes.
wonderful. I’m glad some charities get some money. As stated before on other articles, I’m not happy with £50,000,000 sitting around in a charity account, with teaching children that charities should have to compete against other (usually other unrelated but worthwhile causes) and jump through hoops in a winner take all setting, etc. As you may recall from another article of mine, the Wood Family Trust takes as well as gives: it billed the city for some £20,000 in 2011 if memory serves. I think we can safely say we disagree when it comes to the WFT
I wonder if someone might be able to clarify matters for me. Food banks, which have multiplied by 400% in Scotland during the last two years of the SNP Government, are to receive £500,000 of Scottish Government funding despite the fact that the Scottish Government led Yes Campaign appear to be promising they may no longer exist following 18th September. Is this not quite a lot of money to spend to fund food banks for a matter of weeks or have I misunderstood?
I`m thinking, if you cant have Deer and you cant have tree`s on the hill, then whats the real reason for all of this? Does the council need land for more rates? desperate to build another school? Its landfill isnt it? Is the whole hill a natural feature, or manmade like a bing? (Sorry, Relatively new to Aberdeen(25yrs))
Also, as a citizen who like`s deer, can i pop onto the hill and destroy the tree that was planted in my name?
I live within 3 miles of this hill and have never seen it, (not much rambling since the dog past on, more of a Loirston loch man) Is this where all the quad bikes and scramblers go that you see in Tullos ind est on a sunday afternoon?
Behind the big shell building?
Dear John, if I follow the council’s ‘logic’ if they kill the deer (which they have), then the trees can grow (which I think is highly doubtful – it is a landfill swept by North Sea winds), then, er, deer will have a place to live. And yes, it is the area behind Shell. They have tried to discourage quad bikes and the like. By the way, I love Loirston Loch and appreciate it’s importance to wildlife. Unfortunately, it seems building around the loch is more important than the wildlife these days. And no you can’t take the tree allegedly planted in your name – but the weeds and polluted ground is likely to take care of that for you. Watch that space.
No mention of seals ? Blame the fishermen and not the seals ?
I been following the last couple of months on here about Usan fisheries and aint had the time to type stuff or show pictures that i wanted to show. I can now spare a few minutes to type today.
I been a salmon fisherman for 30 years and in all that time the salmon fisheries has reduced by over 80%. The number of seals has probably risen 1000%. Back in the 80’s alot of salmon fishing stations were licensed to shoot seals, and alot of fishing stations were paid a bounty by river boards for each seal shot. Evidence of seals shot was to cut the seals tail off and then hand the tails to appropriate river boards. This practise was still ongoing on at least 1 river board 10 years ago.
Since the closure of most of scotlands salmon fishing stations the seal population has been left to grow as there was no seal shootings in most areas. The control of seals could be seen as similar to pest control. e.g. forrestry commision killing deer, farmers killing foxes. But seals is a much bigger problem.
All along the scottish coast everyone can see the seals
are a growing species.
I read one reply to a story on this site where the person says seals don’t eat much salmon, thats utter crap.
I used to find lots of remains of salmon in my nets, mostly all thats left is the heads of salmon.
Seals will also attack dolphins and porpoises.
Most rivers i seen lately from aberdeen to inverness have lots of seals in them. I seen seals up the river dee & don, its just easy pickings for the seals to get a feed. What are these river boards doing to get rid of the seals ?
The Ythan Estuary is full of seals, its very noticeable to alot of people that the number has increased alot in the last 10 years. Not so long ago a gamekeepers dog went into the water there to retrieve a duck i think it was and the dog was mauled by a seal. I fear it won’t be long before a person swimming/paddling gets attacked by a seal in this area. Whats Ythan District Fishery Board doing to keep seals away from eating the salmon trying to get up the river ?
Its amazing how so many fish went up all the rivers when all the salmon fishing stations were active. Yet when most the salmon fishing stations closed down theres not so many salmon going up the rivers. So all you do-gooders, so called scientists, river boards, conservation groups. maybe you should look at blaming the seals instead of salmon fishermen. Heres a link to some photo’s i taken while working at blackdog salmon fishing station in previous years. its just a small selection of pics at moment but i shall add more when i have more spare time.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/125946701@N03/
Perhaps, given the importance of the vote, everyone should be allowed a half day off work to vote? But then again, polling stations are open from 7am until 10pm, affording everyone, even schoolchildren, the opportunity to exercise their right to vote.
Why is it, when the countries woes were inflicted by incompetent Westminster politicians and inept bankers, that the poorest in society have to pay for the mistakes made? Just a thought.
Have to agree it should not be the poorest who should pay Ron and there can be no doubt that the banks, who were responsible for such woes, should have been better regulated by government. Your reference to Westminster and your previously and oft stated nationalist sentiments, however, suggest that you feel the Scottish Government might have been more responsible when, in fact, Alex Salmond had been openly lobbying for less and lighter regulation of the banks prior to the calamitous crash.
The possible consequences of an independent Scotland, with no lender of last resort, having to deal with such a scenario in the future is something all voters should consider. The consequences of an independent Scotland not having a broad enough tax base to fund future pensions might be too frightening to consider but a very real possibility nevertheless.
It doesn’t surprise me that the number of councillors responding to you is low. Councillors have a nasty habit of ducking and diving if anything contentious is placed before them. I have found Councillor Bill (I like my picture in the paper) Cormie and Jenny (I’m in charge) Laing particularly adept at this practice.
It is disgusting that food banks exist at all in 21st century Scotland. It is even more disturbing that those in work have to rely on them to feed their families to a basic level. At least The Scottish Government is doing something to support this necessary project unlike Westminster, who’s answer appears to be even more austerity cuts to make life even more miserable for the poorest in society. “No Thanks” supporters seem to relish this prospect with glee. At least the “yes” camp are trying to make some attempt to tackle the ever increasing problem. Food for thought perhaps when you cast your vote on September 18th.
I’m confused Ron. The Scottish Government call the existence of food banks a disgrace and are campaigning on a promise to get rid of them but offer £500,000 to promote them. You call them “disgusting” but enthusiastically support such an initiative. What immediate action would you like to see from either Westminster or Holyrood to negate the need for these food banks which didn’t seem to exist in any meaningful way in Scotland prior to the election of an SNP Government at Holyrood.
Agreed – polls are open a sufficiently long time and people should have enough time to get to one (every time I go to the one in Torry regardless of time of day, it’s just a handful of voters and the volunteers – very disappointing). For anyone who is completely unable to get to a poll, there is the postal vote. Here is a simple, useful BBC piece on the subject. Want a postal vote? Ask for one before 3 September
Deer cull acceptable for building but seal cull is not and they are in my opinion destroying our only access to wild organic salmon on our own beaches. Oh well toxic farm fish it is wrapped in plastic causing more pollution. I’d rather eat a fish from our own beaches than one of those places that use antibiotics, dye, kill seals and birds!!! Dolphins and otters in their anti predator nets. Ok our traditional fishermen use nets but how else do you catch fish??? That’s right you just scoop them out of a slimey fish farm! Local organic fish for locals without using chemicals and polluting the Eco system
in my opinion seals have ‘no natural predators’ and are eating one of the best natural food sources we have in Aberdeen wild Atlantic salmon is registered as a delicacy now
This should be Plan A – whether independence is gained or not. The positive money solution is simple, something that everyone should read about and understand. I defy anyone to study the proposal and not think it is a good idea.
What next? There are approx. 8 hours outwith the school day available to vote. Allowing pupils time off will cause administrative issues on schools .
A think es is jist a ruse bi the twa young fowk ti git time aff fae their lessons nithing really ti dee wi voting in the referendum
A hiv ti agree wi yer sentiments Bruce.
Agreed, in a perfect world Money Reform should be Plan A but it’s not because it would be far too much to deal with alongside independence and whether to use Sterling or not.
First we have to get educated. Every citizen should be aware of what our money supply is and how it works.
Mark Carney’s Bank of England spelled this out in their Quarterly Bulletin 2014 Q1 (mentioned in article).
The best way to access it is via their website because it has very good videos.
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Pages/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q1.aspx
The first two introductions under “topical issues” spell out how all money is now created by private banks as interest-bearing debt, except for 3% cash created interest-free at source for and by the people.
If you get the implications of this fact then you can see how we can never get out of debt without reducing the money supply and to carry out any major project to improve society we must get deeper into debt.
The heart of the matter is we are paying heavily to use private bank numbers when we could use our own.
This is where the Positive Money campaign comes in but Scotland has other fish to fry right now.
beautiful poem – let’s hope the people poisoning our birds of prey are found out and stopped (though I don’t hold out much hope for our wildlife crime officers doing this job)
Thanks Suzanne for your comments re poem.
Unless the wildlife crime officers get help from the general public in the rural areas their task is difficult. Some estate workers know what’s going on in the estates concerned but are frightened to give evidence as they are likely to lose both job and tied house.
This lengthy post is being approved with the editing to comply with Aberdeen Voice policy and to explain confusion, whether deliberate or not, on the part of the commenter:
First of all – “Pollution from salmon farms and escapee salmon are causing environmental disruption. Salmon nets seem to be growing in scale and quantity year on year.” The the devices on fish farms are not nets. They are cages, although they are made from netting. A net is for catching fish, a cage is to contain fish. [note – re. the sentences in question, the first referred to salmon farms; the second referred to netting. The commentor seems to think there was confusion when there was none]
2nd. Salmon netting is NOT on the increase. Salmon netting is down more than 80% since the late 80’s. [the government granted permission for the Ythan estuary netting; this is an increase coinciding with decreasing salmon stock in rivers]
3rd. Seal numbers are NOT on the decline. [they are, as referenced in the article. Commenter is welcome to submit statistics showing increase in seal numbers]
4th. “non-lethal methods of protecting salmon in nets exist” – Electronic seal scarers (Acoustic Deterrent Devices) do not work well in the sea when it is slightly rough, compared to in a river or a fish farm in still waters.
5th. “In the last three years dormant netting stations have re-opened and netting effort has increased substantially” Utter crap, dozens of fishing stations have closed down. Get the real facts on how many fishing stations have closed down in the last 30 years and have re-opened. I worked in 7 netting stations between inverness and aberdeen which closed down and i would love to know which of these has started nettting again.
6th “Would moving the nets, or avoiding seal area to avoid this mysterious damage not be a first means of avoiding destroying a seal?” The seals don’t have an area they call home, seals have been tracked swimming from aberdeen to orkney then back again.Then they go for a wee swim up the Dee then go back to sea then go for a wee swim up the Esk, then swim back to sea then go for a wee swim upto moray firth then test the waters of the Helmsdale. [again, if shooting seals is meant to be the last resort, what actions are taken before this final solution?]
7th. “Some 500 seals are in that estuary; it is a well-known, popular tourist destination. It is hard to not see a link between these two facts.” So no link between them 500+ seals and the ammount of salmon going up the river ? [the new factor is not the long-established seal population; it is the new netting]
It seems to me that theres alot of wrong information going out. Basically Lies in my opinion.
It also looks like somone has a thing against the Pullars or salmonfishing.
I typed a reply to one of the stories i read on here and no one commented on it. well here it is again, have a good read and go check out the pictures i put a link for. And you tell me a seal never touched that salmon or dolphin.
………………………………………………………….
No mention of seals ? Blame the fishermen and not the seals ?
I been following the last couple of months on here about Usan fisheries and aint had the time to type stuff or show pictures that i wanted to show. I can now spare a few minutes to type today.
I been a salmon fisherman for 30 years and in all that time the salmon fisheries has reduced by over 80% [your reference for the figure will be welcome]. The number of seals has probably risen 1000% [again, this is contrary to our references; please send reference showing 1000% increase in seal population and what type(s) of seal species is involved]. Back in the 80’s alot of salmon fishing stations were licensed to shoot seals, and alot of fishing stations were paid a bounty by river boards for each seal shot. Evidence of seals shot was to cut the seals tail off and then hand the tails to appropriate river boards. This practise was still ongoing on at least 1 river board 10 years ago.
Since the closure of most of scotlands salmon fishing stations the seal population has been left to grow as there was no seal shootings in most areas. The control of seals could be seen as similar to pest control. e.g. forrestry commision killing deer, farmers killing foxes. But seals is a much bigger problem in my opinion.
All along the scottish coast everyone can see the seals are a growing species in my opinion.
I read one reply to a story on this site where the person says seals don’t eat much salmon, thats utter crap in my opinion.
I used to find lots of remains of salmon in my nets, mostly all thats left is the heads of salmon.
Seals will also attack dolphins and porpoises.
Most rivers i seen lately from aberdeen to inverness have lots of seals in them. I seen seals up the river dee & don, its just easy pickings for the seals to get a feed in my opinion. What are these river boards doing to get rid of the seals ?
The Ythan Estuary is full of seals, its very noticeable to alot of people that the number has increased alot in the last 10 years I believe. Not so long ago a gamekeepers dog went into the water there to retrieve a duck i think it was and the dog was mauled by a seal*. I fear it won’t be long before a person swimming/paddling gets attacked by a seal in this area. Whats Ythan District Fishery Board doing to keep seals away from eating the salmon trying to get up the river ?
Its amazing how so many fish went up all the rivers when all the salmon fishing stations were active. Yet when most the salmon fishing stations closed down theres not so many salmon going up the rivers. [again, the drop in salmon numbers is a new phenomenon and it seems to coincide with new netting] So all you do-gooders, so called scientists, river boards, conservation groups. maybe you should look at blaming the seals instead of salmon fishermen in my opinion. Heres a link to some photo’s i taken while working at blackdog salmon fishing station in previous years. its just a small selection of pics at moment but i shall add more when i have more speare time.
Link for photos – https://www.flickr.com/photos/125946701@N03/
Paul Murray
fishingisahobby@aol.com
And heres another thing, copying and pasting doesn’t make you an expert on seals. In my opinion you just read other peoples text and paste it. with no evidence of anything, wheres scientists reports ? When did a seal count occur ? what method was used to count seals ?
when you start copying an pasting from other sites try not miss out the important bits. e.g. – Catch and effort for fixed engine and net & coble net fisheries remain at historically low levels. Reported catches were 12,584 and 3,646 respectively, 5% and 1% of the maximum reported since records began in 1952. Fishing effort in these fisheries was 236.5 trap months and 78.5 crew months; the fifth and sixth lowest, respectively over the same time period. [can you pleaes supply the source for these figures? many thanks – Suzanne]
The fishermen know more than scientists in my opinion, all fishermen communicate with each other. Dr Peter Fraser, a leading marine biologist at the University of Aberdeen even agreed 5 years ago that seal population has grown alot. Maybe thats why he was licensed to shoot seals at the fishing station i worked at.
Even the river don river superintendant Jim Kerr and his bailiffs i had talked to most weeks for 10 years said they aint seen seals in great numbers like now.
I am well travelled over the years all over the coast and see the difference myself in the seal numbers.
Does your friend Michael Forbes agree that seal numbers are down ? I think not.
“According to those in the area 16 seals were shot, 14 were pregnant. An area expert advised that NONE had traces of salmon in their digestive tracts.”
wheres the autopsy reports ? photographic evidence ? this area expert what qualifications does he/she have ?
I think you’re just blowing wind, maybe you should devote your time to something else. How about salmon cruelty ? example of salmon cruelty = Thousands of salmon being caught by fishermen on rivers, fighting to get off the hook for upto 10 minutes or more. Just to be released and be caught again for more torture. All in the name of sport.
Thank you for your comments. Where I use quotes (which you call copy and paste) they are all referenced and serve to either pose questions or supprt points. And no, I don’t hold myself out as an expert on seals, salmon and our ecology: but I have grave concerns about some of those who do claim to be experts on a complex issue. in fact, thank you for this: “Dr Peter Fraser, a leading marine biologist at the University of Aberdeen even agreed 5 years ago that seal population has grown alot. Maybe thats why he was licensed to shoot seals at the fishing station i worked at.” – Perhaps someone who is engaged in shooting seals has an interest in ensuring seals get shot? People rightly worry about experts who make pronouncements about animal culls who are involved in the business of culling: we have this very issue in Aberdeen with rangers saying we have too many deer, sitting on a pro-culling public/private body, downplaying poaching (even claiming the remains of 4 deer found on his patch must have been from deer killed elsewhere – a most unlikely scenario), and taking awards for tree planting schemes. Experts perhaps should hold up their hands when there is a conflict of interest.
As for the cruelty of angling, I dare say anglers may hold a different view: in any event the fish goes away alive.
The figures are on the page that you decided to copy bits from. And even put the link to.
http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Salmon-and-sea-trout-fishery-statistics-2012-445.aspx.
But you only copied the bits to suit your agenda in my opinion. [moderated]
No cull ever happened where i worked, just the odd seal that wouldn’t keep away from nets would be shot. And as you can see from my pics, seals captured by shallow salmon nets were freed and no harm come to them.
First, many apologies for the delay in posting your comment; we do aim to post faster than this. I still maintain, as do experts I consulted with, that the scale of the operations in place this season are far larger than the operations of the past. It is clear that salmon are not making it into the rivers from the data the anglers presented to me. I am sorry you felt you had to shoot ‘just the odd seal’ – what deterrents did you use? I am glad seals caught in nets were freed according to you, but we know that seals have been drowned in nets. However, the evidence exists that seals are being shot by those who are in the salmon fishing industry; seals have been shot in Gardenstown against the express wishes of the landowner. Deterrents exist, and after my research I fully support the work of Sea Shepherd in preventing this unnecessary slaughter.
Didn’t the “local hero” with his boat at Menie farm Salmon?? tad hypocritical to laud him but now condemn his way of living.*
* Even though we know his boat has not seen water since mid 60’s maybe.
(Bill’s comment has been edited to make it publishable; insults levelled at a Menie resident were removed)
Bill, I can safely say that the operations of Michael Forbes and his boat were considerably smaller in scale than those of commercial netting operations. I can also say that his small boat has not been in the water since the previous route he took to the water was locked shut – like other gates on the estate were locked, rather contrary to the laws in Scotland regarding the right to roam. I was told that two policemen advised him that if he went near the gate, he would be arrested. I hope this somewhat clarifies things for you.
looks like the edits to my piece was done to suit your agenda.
[the new factor is not the long-established seal population; it is the new netting]
there wasn’t over 500 seals there 10 years ago, thats a new factor. the netting aint new, fishing been going on before and had a few years break.
Seals are the rats of the ocean, big cute eyes won’t stop them destroying everything in their path, what does the author think they eat??
At a time when salmon are not, for reasons unknown, returning to the rivers in sufficient numbers, you cannot surely be in favour of an increase in salmon – netting!
Furthermore Bill, I have big cute eyes and am a voracious consumer of fish but you surely wouldn’t be in favour of shooting me would you?
I would ban the netting all together and shoot the seals, the salmon would soon return.
Not a new story at all Bob but worth passing on.
Trump, Wood, Milne…repeat, all rather boring now, you need new material.
Hello again Bill,
Do you think it is a good thing, in general terms, that rich people can use their wealth, power and influence to circumvent long established democratic principle and procedure and to control large sections of the media and local and national government?
Do you think it is a bad thing that contributors to alternative media publications, such as AV, take the time to try to ensure that an alternative point of view, free of vested interest or political interference, is offered to the public?
Bruce – I think you spend so much time undermining everyone you fail to be positive at all in anyway.
That is your problem in my opinion, can’t see the wood for the trees.
UK is a shadow of itself – Scotkand can easily go it alone.
Here’s some facts in my opinion
We’ll use the pound
Buissness won’t flee
We’ll be free to do whatever we want to diversify away from oil using oil revenue interest alone (like Norway)
We’ll still be trading with England as currency will be the same
We will still have the same trade compliance with no transaction costs – why would we introduce that?? Scotland wants away from stealth tax – it’s socio-democratic
You sound to me like a typical no troll to a lot of people on this board – even the no voters! Armchair critic in my opinnion
Nice article, well said.
Only those with a fear of the unknown will stop the people of Scotland being in a position to govern themselves.
Yet another positive and informative statement to inspire us all!
Hi Keith,
I believe it would serve the interests of the Scottish people better, regardless of voting intentions, if we tried to stick to the facts rather than adopting the extremely tiresome strategy of presenting opinion and assertion as fact and misleading people.
It is a fact that the vision of “independence” we are being offered is based on adopting the currency of a foreign country and allowing the central bank and lender of last resort of that foreign country to take full control of our entire monetary policy. A Yes vote, according to First Minister Salmond, would be sufficient to present such a position as the “sovereign will of the Scottish people”. To suggest, therefore, that a Yes vote would provide us with full control over our own economy is simply untrue.
Your assertion that all of the countries of Europe will be rushing to break existing rules by fast – tracking a membership application from a new nation which would, depending on the outcome of negotiations, either have no currency of it’s own or have no lender of last resort and, if the threats of the Yes Campaign are to be believed, may have just defaulted on it’s national debt is, in my opinion, fanciful at best. Your notion that member nations, threatened by separatist movements of their own, would not think twice before approving an application from an independent Scotland is, in my opinion, nonsensical.
To lobby for a Yes vote is entirely legitimate but to do so on the basis of what, in my view, amounts to wild and unreasonable expectation makes a mockery of the entire debate.
Bruce, you seem somewhat confused , First of all, Scotland will not be adopting the currency of a foreign country. The pound is as much ours as it is for the rest of the UK. The terms and conditions of a currency union will depend on negotiations between Edinburgh and Westminster – and the governer of the BoE.
Having a lender of last resort is not a requirement for joining the EU. Some would argue that by not having a lender of last resort it would make bankers act more prudently which would reduce the risk of another banking crisis.
I am already an EU citizen and have an EU passport. There are no rules to break concerning an Independent Scotland becoming a member – it is a unique case with no precedent in the history of the EU.
Scotland is not responsible for the UK’s national debt. This has already been acknowledged by the Westminster government who have announced that they will underwrite the entire debt. The SNP are prepared to accept a share of the UK’s debt as an act of good will but in the event of the Westminster government refusing a reasonable division of the UKs assets, there will be no reason for Scotland to be so generous.
With our track record and assets, there is no doubt that Scotland will gain acceptance very quickly.
HI Denis,
This is exactly the kind of misleading information I was referring to. An independent Scotland would, of course, have every right to use any existing currency they so choose, including the US dollar, Australian dollar or rouble should they so wish. A problem with this is not only would there be no lender of last resort but those who would be representing Scotland in negotiations with the UK have already declared that currency union with the UK, in the event of a Yes vote, would be the “sovereign will” of the Scottish people and therefore no other option or Plan B is on the table. To achieve this, they would have to convince all three UK mainstream political parties to enter a domestic election campaign on the basis of an extremely high – profile and unpopular u – turn. Should they succeed in performing this miracle of biblical proportions then they would, I must tell you, most definitely be in a position in which their monetary policy would be dictated by a foreign country. There is no confusion here whatsoever and even the SNP leadership have conceded this point.
With regard to EU membership, you have failed to address the points I raise and I don’t blame you for that as these obstacles, according to knowledgable and experienced veterans of the EU Commission, are most likely insurmountable.
Notwithstanding the opinions of such experts, your suggestion that a new applicant state, as Scotland would be, could be accepted as an EU member whilst shadowing the currency of an existing member who had successfully negotiated an opt out of the Euro, whilst reneging on an acknowledged share of national debt thereby expecting that same member, whose vote would be required to enable our membership, to pay the bill on our behalf, whilst having no central bank to guarantee the value of our currency or bail out our banks in the event of a financial crisis and whilst setting a precedent which would encourage separatist movements in Catalonia, Pays Basque, Flanders and Corsica is, in my opinion, straight out of the SNP book of self – delusion.
Good luck with the campaign Denis but please do not try to fool people with such illogical and ill – informed contributions. The UK will decide if an independent Scotland will be permitted currency union and the UK will decide whether or not to veto our membership of the EU. They have all the cards whilst those in whom you have placed your trust are not only bluffing but are not very good at it.
Some interesting notes.
I`m still 50/50, I truly believe Scotland is more than capable on standing on its own feet. We are a proud nation of Engineers, Inventors and Warriors.
When a man has to take his son to Spain for better treatment, maybe this shows what a mess the UK is in.
For me the NHS is the barometer of how we are doing. I just hope all the doctors and Surgeons dont decide to move South if things improve in the Scottish NHS
I think whats important here that regardless of what happens over the coming months, we must all stick together and respect the views of our fellow Scots. Voting YES or NO is neither a good or a bad thing. Nobody knows for sure what will happen next.
Can we de-privatise the postal service? 🙂
(Still 50/50, if I vote no. it wont be out of fear)
I’m genuinely surprised to read that a “proud warrior” like yourself is undecided but would agree that we should be voting on the basis of fact rather than fear and fantasy. Claims by SNP MP’S that only a Scottish Government can save the NHS and that we will be governed by UKIP, unless we vote Yes, amount to ridiculous scaremongering. As for their claims that an independent Scotland will have free childcare for all, free education for all, free medical treatment for all, free care of the elderly, index – linked pensions for all and will ban austerity, poverty, inequality and food banks whilst remaining debt free, well what can one say?
Interesting comments.
But why should we stick with Westminster which has not seen fit to save our assets? And I mean English assets as well as the rest of the UK’s assets. Over 50% of gas production lies within English maritime waters and yet Westminster (under both Labour and Conservative govts) has not seen fit to set up a sovereign wealth fund – here’s the evidence – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sovereign_wealth_funds
I’m not an economist but it seems like a sensible thing to do but the UK is NOT on the list. Nearly every oil producing country has set one one up – and can use the money to invest in infrastructure and their country’s future. I wonder where Westminster has put the cash? I reckon a sovereign wealth fund is a good reason to vote Yes it will go on sensible spending instead of bankers and privatisation and illegal wars- and by the way, 90% of oil production lies in Scottish waters.
Plus renewables are the future – and we have approx. 1/3 of wind and wave power in Europe – a country of 5 million has the energy capacity of 180 million. With carbon emission reductions Scotland will be at the forefront of a greener Europe.
The “Jarrow marchers” of 2014 who are walking to London to try and save the NHS in England are telling Scottish voters to vote Yes to save the NHS here – speaks volumes doesn’t it? But don’t expect taxes or National insurance payment to go down in England. So with a privatised system they will be paying for the “NHS” twice over. It’s horrible for r UK but at least we have a chance to prevent that up here,
So not only are we to receive everything free but we are to simultaneously set up a sovereign wealth fund and, at the same time, invest our new found wealth in infrastructure for the future whilst paying subsidies to encourage the growth of renewables.
You’re right, you’re not an economist!!
More engineer than warrior.
In my view an independent Scotland may need its warriors from the off. what with the English helping themselves to the oil* and the Russians helping themselves to the fish
Looking at a little history, it was a Scottish King that United the Kingdoms. Does anyone know how many politicians there are in Westminster that are Scottish?
I dont like the notion being passed around that if Scotland Vote no, then Westminster will Claw back some of the power currently being enjoyed in Edinburgh.
Just now we have 3 goverments to appease. European,Westminster,Edinburgh, it would save us a few quid I reckon if we cut out the middle one, but still looking for another 1 or 2 good reasons to vote yes
*directional drilling techniqes
Please don’t tell me our New Moral Army is to be fighting the English and the Russians at the same time. That’s been tried before you know and didn’t end too well in either case.
I’m not quite sure what the invitation, from the English nobles to James the Sixth in 1603, has to do with the number of Scottish politicians at Westminster now but am sure you will let me know.
You seem to be a very one – sided undecided and are extremely critical of anything remotely English/Westminster. What exactly is it which is preventing you from becoming one of Salmond’s brave soldiers?
Oh, your a no voter. Took me a while to work that out would you believe… 🙂
The westminster thing, was a poke to see how much representation Scotland actually has, there was no real link with what happened hundreds of years ago. Doesnt seem that long since we had a Mt Brown at the helm. Sorry if I appear ignorant, but I`m working hard just now to pay all these taxes and dont really have time to catch up on news and stuff, would rather be at the park with the kids.
3 months ago I was a definite no voter, but I cant help but think there is an important decision to be made here and I simply dont know what to do – along with a lot of other ppl
we cant vote yes because of a Tory Gov, we cant vote no just because we dont like Salmond
when i realised a yes vote doesnt automatically mean an snp gov, then it becomes interesting. for me anyway
Couldnt give a monkeys about currency, I`m always overdrawn at the bank, so I dont have any money to lose.
I do switch off when yes voters stick out their chest and cry freedom 🙂
Everybody has to go and see this film. Excellent article Suzanne, and for all those who are beating the drum for Salmond, think very carefully about how he has treated the Menie residents. I too have written to him and he continues, even now, to brush what has happened there, aside. Is this a blueprint for Scotland’s future?
No one is voting for Alec Salmond, the vote is to determine Scotland’s future and whether the Scottish people will govern themselves, please stop your attempt at petty point scoring.
that’s funny, I thought this piece is not about the referendum and this piece makes it clear the film is not about the referendum, but that Alex Salmond should be accountable to his constituents; he got them into this situation; he’s not bothered to go and visit them. What article are you reading, Bill?
I’m replying to your good friend Dorothy [comment moderated to remove insulting, inaccurate personal attack]
Why not pull up your friend, Scotlands “blueprint”, the vote is for Scotlands future, after that if its yes you get to vote for whoever you like.
Alec Salmond is not what we’re voting for.
and again, this article is about Alex Salmond (who is somehow ‘Alec’ to you) not visiting the people he’s been elected to represent who he knows are suffering because of Trump’s activiites. It’s not about the referendum. Perhaps that is a very difficult concept but other readers seem to be working it out
Bruce, Stop being so miserable in my opinion, and knocking every yes or undecided poster, we get it, you’re voting no. This doesn’t make you right and everyone else wrong. If you think the current system is serving you and the people of Scotland well then good for you, others like me think we could do it so much better, I don’t want the bedroom tax or people living on handouts from food banks, I want a fairer society which I believe a government local to us has a better chance of delivering.
I ask one question of you if you don’t mind…why are they so desperate to keep us? according to them we cost them money in subsidies, why try so hard with their project fear campaign if that’s the case. Tia.
Why ask if he’s going to following developments at Turnberry and Ireland?? Are you also going to ask him to look into every golf course that changes hands?
Interesting that Anthony says the following, “Something in our democracy is broken and we have to fix it.”
Perhaps he should do a documentary on democracy being ignored when the local people voted for a new City garden, that was the biggest slap in the face to democracy that I’ve ever witnessed.
Hello again Bill,
With respect, I think you just might be missing the point. You see, these other resorts you mention already existed and did not require the intervention of the Scottish Government to overturn democratic decisions, or building to take place on land which had the highest level of protection possible, or lobbying by the business community, or the sycophancy and corruption, in my opinion, of the local media, or the clear abuse of the rights of private citizens, or lies about the creation of jobs, or the arrest of journalists for trying to do their jobs.
Please tell me you understand the difference Bill.
Thank you Bruce Wood for putting it so succinctly. Says it all.
I know that Ford doesn’t speak for me, the worst kind of politician in the World imo, it was so right that his view was ignored, [updated to remove personal insulting comments]
when you say ‘it was so right that his view was ignored’ – what view was that? – when his committee voted to uphold existing law and protect the SSSI designation given to the sand dunes? To respect the legal protection given to the environment? That’s all he did.
Guid stuff Bob.
Gled ye like it Duncan.
It makes me laugh at the attempt to portray the Menie residents as persecuted people, they live by the seaside and had a golf course built next to them, not an incinerator or power station, a golf course, one that many people deem the best in the Country and one that is very nice to look at.
If this wasn’t built by a rich man I suspect the local socialists wouldn’t have batted an eye.
You want real stories of hardship try doing an article on the people who are forced to visit food banks in our oil rich city, the crocodile tears for home owning middle class people living on the beach is wearing thin.
Ye really hinna got a clue hiv ye Bill. Hiv ye ivver chatted ti the Munros ,the Forbes or the Milnes an fun oot fit REALLY wint on durin an efter the golf course wis biggit.Until ye div min ye really canna comment aboot whither or no they hiv or hivna bin persecuted. Fit class ye shove them in his git bugger aa ti dee wi the argument.A’ve bin a gowfer fer some 50 odd ‘ears an agree the course is a gweed een. Pairt o it jist shudna hae bin biggit on a legally protectit bit o grun.Naebody wis complainin aboot a gowf course per se.
Mr Smith sir! Will we be seeing you at the film tomorrow at 6.30, Union Square (and / or after)? Would be a pleasure –
[ this post moderated to comply with Aberdeen Voice policy]
Bob, in my opinion if this course was built by joe bloggs it would be a non story.
My folks house used to look out onto fields, now it is Bucksburn academy, where is the story of their hardship??
If Trump built it you lot would be all over it in my opinion.
The funny thing is I think that the set of writers here will all be at the music hall this weekend indulging in the arts, I don’t think there isn’t a low earner amongst you all, the arty set in my opinion, who I believe are sitting in brewdog putting the World to rights while massaging wax into your trendy moustache. I don’t believe this isn’t the Aberdeen voice, I believe it’s a platform for left wing vegans, the causes you are following are all aimed at middle class rich people in my opinion.
Don crossing going through Tillydrone has been ignored, food banks have been ignored, the masive lack of social housing, again ignored, i believe you’re you’re all in a middle class bubble attacking those richer than you, the real problems are the people under your upturned noses.
A golf course where in my opinion a half dozen families have been inconvenienced has been on these pages for Months, come on Bob, you must see that starving poor families are a bigger issue.
Enjoy the music hall day btw, I’m sure the paintings will be nice.
Dear Bill, There is so much wrong with what you say in this post, I’ll find a better way to spend my time than countering all your claims. I am sorry you’ve missed all the articles and comments in AV that have dealt with urban sprawl and over development; somehow they seem to have eluded you. I am sorry to think you believe the objection to all of the things going on at Menie is solely that Trump’s been involved. You cannot have digested the articles documenting the lack of democracy, the illegal treatment of people, the contempt for the right to roam, etc. etc. I am trying to figure out how you object to some urban sprawl, chide us incorrectly for ignoring the issue, but at the same time are in favour of urban sprawl at Menie, and the loss of legal protection from a completely unique, important dune system. It is, to me, completely incongruent.
But your contempt for the arts is one thing. ‘Indulge in the arts?’ – I think you’ll find that for some of us, arts practice, appreciation of art is an enriching experience, and one that need not cost any money at all.
If you think Trump and Wood and their ilk are middle class, I wonder who you class as rich?
And yes, there are been articles and posts about food banks – it is a crime we need them in 21st century UK.
I never said they were middle class, I said you and your pals are, read before commenting please.
well, the implication seems to be that ‘indulging’ in the arts is an affliction of the middle classes; I can assure you that the Trumps and Woods likewise indulge in culture. In fact many people with little money find that the arts are accessible (and even moving, thought-provoking and stimulating to some of us).
The edits on my post have been done to make me look like a thick uneducated mutant, the “I believe” stuff was not my writing. You should not edit peoples posts without their permission, just because I disagree with you does not mean I’m attacked in this manner.
Nothing I wrote was anywhere close to being defamatory, your editing has been done to detract from my perfectly valid opinions, I’m born and bred in Aberdeen, my “Voice” is as valid or even more than yours.
To clarify; in my opinion you’re posting articles aimed at your audience, ie the brewdog middle class people you know, the people of Aberdeen who you claim to be the voice for have way bigger worries than a half dozen middle class people living on the edge of a golf course being inconvenienced. Come into the real World. [post moderated – sorry Bill, if you keep stating things as facts, or insulting people, the post will be moderated. nothing in the moderation has taken away from the gist of your comments]
Bill’s many posts will be moderated the same way as anyone else’s. Stating things as facts which are not factual (and in some cases are insulting, which is unnecessary to make comment on an article, then expect ‘in my opinion’ or ‘I believe’ to be added to such statements to make it clear that they are not factual). Bill, dear – perhaps you should find something else to be reading; my work does seem to upset you so. As to Brewdog’s customers all being middle class, they’re very amused to hear it. Bill, we will either edit any such further posts from you, or we will simply not be able to use them. Defamation is not the only reason a post will be moderated; you must surely realise that. If anyone believes they look like a ‘thick uneducated mutant’ due to the words ‘I think’, or ‘I believe’ being added to make it clear to readers that something is an opinion and not a fact, well, there is little we can do about that except to ask the poster to reconsider their position. It is hardly an ‘attack’ of any sort to clarify fact from opinion.
So the not at all confused man who claims to vote for the Conservative and Unionists AND for the socialism of those Scottish nationalists espousing Independence, whilst clearly having a bit of a thing for rich people and dismissive of those he considers to be socialists now wants to champion the cause of those who use food banks. Just one question Bill because I know you never answer anyway:
Have you ever felt embarrassed?
I will vote conservative in a independent Scotland, I despise Socialists and I believe that you are the embarrassment my friend, you seem too scared of letting go of the spivs in Englands coattails, too scared to let the people of our Country run our Country. I believe you will have to explain what I see as your weakness to your children in years to come, how ashamed of you I think they’ll be as our Country crumbles beneath us. [post moderated. Bill, can you please try to contain your remarks to factual comments rather than personal attacks, thank you]
I’m terribly sorry that I disagree with Keith, John, Denis, Terry and yourself but if someone uses a forum to make claims which I believe to be false and misleading then I am entitled to respond.
You refer to “them” and “they” and a “project fear”. I assume from this that you are referring to the other members of the UK – England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Can you provide me with an example of this “project fear” campaign which you allege they are conducting so that I can respond to your question please?
THIS HAS TO STOP! STOP KILL ALL ANIMALS , THE HAVE RIGHT TOO!! STOP TORTERE THIS ANIMAL!!
Now you seem to be acting as a medical expert taking up the time of people working at a no doubt busy hospital. The Czech clinic they were intending going to is in the Eastern block, it’s also no where near Malaga where they were, with the best will in the World they won’t have better treatment available than a British hospital.
Alternative therapies are all well and good but you have to trust the Paediatricians who have years of experience before anyone else, if they thought the child would receive better treatment in England then they are best placed to make that decision.
I think it is pretty crass digging into the hospitals past I think,I would imagine most hospitals have had things go wrong over the years and most hospitals will use trial drugs, it’s how medicine has advanced over the years.
You should stick to local matters imo. [post moderated]
The rest of us seem to have read about how parents who decided on a legitimate course of treatment for their child were treated like criminals, and the boy subject to the unnecessary stress of separation from them. The police now concede there was no need to take the course of action they took. The hospital have a media team, well paid and meant to reply to questions – they chose not to. This ‘alternative therapy’ you refer to has some amazing results. But well done for spotting Malaga is not near the Czech clinic. I’m just glad they are together, that the child will have the treatment which other physicians than those at Southampton (which didn’t want to pay for this treatment – it was therefore at least in part a financial, not a clinical decision) feel will help. This child, as the article shows, is not the only case of a hospital taking draconian measures against patient and relative wishes. Best wishes to the King family
Mr Wood says – “You refer to “them” and “they” and a “project fear”. I assume from this that you are referring to the other members of the UK – England, Wales and Northern Ireland. ”
I’m friends with “other members of the UK” as we all are. Most of my English friends are voting Yes (and there are still Scottish people on the No side.) So trying to frame this debate along national lines is wrong, misleading and divisive.
The Yes side has got support from everywhere – Tories for Yes, Lawyers for Yes, English for Yes and even Celtic and Rangers fans United for Yes. Isn’t that unifying? This isn’t a national issue – it’s an issue of self determination, social justice and internationalism as Scotland wants to stay inside Europe. Attempts by desperate No supporters to say Yes voters are a bunch of insular racist types is a bit sad and pathetic.
Question – why do you think that the only grouping that hasn’t got a pro-independence element were Bankers. I couldn’t find any “Bankers for Yes at all. That speaks volumes.
Hi Bill,
I just wanted to let you know that once upon a time, during the dim and distant days of my gloriously decadent youth, and after an evening of spectacular over – indulgence, I was on my way home from Bucksburn when I was abducted by aliens who just so happened to be ” thick uneducated mutants”. Having read some of the comments here, I have decided, in retrospect, that they were actually relatively intelligent.
I just felt the need to share this with you so that you might stop indulging in the negative stereo – typing of my old friends.
Eh Suzanne fit hiv a said ti upset ye. Am assumin ye mint ti say Dear Bill in an earlier post instead o Dear Bob.
As regards comin ti see the film “A Dangerous Game”. A’m gutted a canna mak it bit hope ti see it a later showin.
An Bill git a grip min. Yer bias agin onybody fa his a go at Trumpie is weerin a bit thin.A’ll say it again. It his got nithin ti dee wi Trump bein rich!!!It his got nithin ti dee wi Trump bein rich!!! It his nithing ti dee wi Trump bein rich !!!. His es sunk in yet. No –Then a’m sorry bit yer past help.Oh an bye the wye a’m neither socialist nor Tory an ma wife an I SURVIVE on oor pensions. Ye canna pigeon hole fowk jist cos they happen ti hae a particular view.
well spotted Bob, and thanks – have corrected ‘Bob’ to ‘Bill’. Intelligent, logical corrections always welcome by me, and are appreciated. We’ll get you to a showing of A Dangerous Game; it’s oot for 7 days at CineWorld – not that you’d know that from the P&J which, I was told, omitted the film from its listing of films playing in the area. No doubt they will correct their error just as I corrected my error once you pointed it out to me.
Hi Suzanne,
My wife and I had reserved seats for Friday but we had to cancel at the last minute. Real shame as I had hoped to have the opportunity to meet you and other contributors to AV. We will try to get there some time this week.
Press & Journal what can one say?
Shame, but I hope you go during the run; if you do get to it, please let me know when you’ll be there
PS – the film has been held over! Almost unprecedented for a documentary to get a major cinema chain like CineWorld to release it in the first place, but it is not only held over, it’s going to other theatres as well! Am very pleased for all involved. Check the CineWorld link for more info – see article.
Again Bill I suspect you are castin aspershuns agin Cooncillor Ford withoot ivver spikkin ti the mannie.
“The worst kind o politician in the warld” Michty me Bill ye must meet a helluva lot o politicians afore ye can come up wi es view.. Funnily aneuch Martin Ford wis voted as bein een o the top three guests fowk liked ti listen till on Lesley Riddoch’s radio programme a fyow ‘ear ago. Es poll wis teen amang listeners ti BBC Radio Scotland. Check it oot yersel if ye dinna believe me
I have spoke to him Bob, many times, I don’t like the man or his opinions, in my opinion we’d still be living in caves if the likes of him had led us through the years.
Anyone who commutes in Aberdeen knows we need better infrastructure, my commute from Dyce to Bucksburn has been near the hour mark this week, new industrial estates are springing up everywhere, you ask his opinion on this and it’s cycle paths we need, in my opinion that isn’t a bad thought but it needs to be coupled with road building, we need this bypass and dual carriageway from the airport to the City with flyovers instead of roundabouts, your stand up politician wants none of these, we don’t need the bypass in his opinion.
I’m all for being green but anyone who objects to every improvement to our infrastructure shouldn’t be a councillor, we can’t stand still, with a growing population you need houses and transport, your man Ford likes to block, he doesn’t offer many alternatives imo.
Wind power is the big green argument, you drive to Huntly and tell me those subsidised bird and bat killing monstrosities are what you want to see all over our Countryside and coast, they’re lauded on the Aberdeen Voice as Trump doesn’t like them, who cares they kill dolphins, whales and inland wildlife, Trump doesn’t like them, they’re good.
I get people calling me not intelligent enough to debate with here, it goes unmoderated, the editor even backs the author of that yet all my posts get picked apart and moderated, my facebook has even been snooped on and used against me to the point I don’t use my real name here. I am the Aberdeen voice, I’m a lifelong citizen here, my views on the gardens debate were shared by over 50% of the people living here, it’s a real shame imo that people are put off from posting in the comments section, I’ve had people say to me they’ve seen me getting attacked for my views and they agree with me but won’t post due to my treatment. You and your friends really need to either change the title of this publication or stop attacking anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
[Bill, we do try to pass as many comments as we can without moderation or amendment of any kind. Whilst your posts are the only ones you can know to have been moderated and how, I can assure you that yours are not the only ones moderated. Moderation, rather than being a process of cutting out, is more aimed at keeping content in, and thereby keeping the poster included and engaged in discussion. We do not always indicate that posts have been moderated, and when we do, it is as a means of providing advice and guidance to enable posters to self moderate … thereby making it unnecessary for us to do so. – Moderator]
There’s more in the November 2013 Leopard magazine.
It is my belief that Grampian police are almost entirely corrupt and/or incompetent. If they are a fair example of Scotland’s public services then god help the Scottish people if they vote yes to independence.
Eminent common sense I’d say
I couldn’t agree with you more. Why any right thinking person would want to vote no is an anathema. Like you, when travelling overseas, I was always asked if I was English. The most memorable occasion being in the high Andes of Peru. As you say, when I informed the questioner that I was Scottish I was greeted with open arms, even provided with a free, albeit basic, meal by people who had little of their own. I will be proud to vote yes to return my homeland to her rightful position on the world stage but bear no malice to our friends south of the border. In my book, we’re aw Jock Tamson’s bairns but with differing political aspirations and outlook.
Hi Ron,
Are you suggesting that the natives of the high Andes of Peru, on hearing you were Scottish, suddenly thought ” he’s Scottish and therefore has different political aspirations and a different outlook to the English so let’s give him some food” Really?
Honestly, this on – going nationalist theme suggesting we are morally superior to the English is wearing a bit thin and is, in my view, offensive. I suspect we share similar values Ron and I respect your views but claiming moral superiority on the basis of race is, in my opinion, distasteful.
Who said anything about moral superiority Bruce? They (The Peruvians) seemed to have the opinion we (The Scots) were more desirable companions, for whatever reason. Perhaps they have taste?
PS – I had a reply from Police Scotland. Absolutely no emails or pieces of correspondence can be located concerning how the Aberdeen event was organised. However, on the day this was the deployment:
“For simplicity, I propose that the Security Escort Team members and not others such as Local Policing etcetera be considered. The daily deployment comprised of:
1 x inspector (as security commander);
3 x sergeants (as running team leader, staff officer/loggist to commander and motorcycle supervisor); and
24 x constables (as security escort running team (x7), flexible support team (x7), motorcyclists (x6) and drivers (x4 incl. convoy commander))
Isles = 1 + 2 + 15 on average but not for every location, e.g. advance team travelled ahead and was augmented by others on the relevant day.”
so our little day out turns into be a rather expensive exercise in police muscle flexing.
This is one of the more ironic offerings from the SNP. Dr Whiteford suggests that Scotland is “better placed” to provide a dignified retirement and may, therefore, not have to raise the retirement age. Meanwhile, Nicola Sturgeon suggests an independent Scotland may not have to raise the retirement age because we die earlier!
Vote Yes for a dignified but early death?
Well I recon I’d rather go with their version of events than that offered by “better together” – 57, 58, 65, 84, or maybe an invite to the euthanasia clinic at the good old, “three score years and ten.” That would certainly help the benefits bill reduction policy. Given the austerity problem has caused said bill to rise, not fall, has it been worthwhile causing such pain and grief to the poor and disabled in society?
Hi Ron,
Whilst I certainly do not agree with many of the policies of the current UK Government, there has been no evidence presented to demonstrate how an independent Scotland, or quasi – independent Scotland in the event of currency union, will do any better.
Empty rhetoric just doesn’t do it for me!
Keith,
You appear to taint your article before it starts by your inability to refer to the term “English” without resorting to the infantile use of the derogatory term “Engerlish” Are you really that bitter?
The rest of your article is dedicated to the attempted propagation of the quite incredible proposition that a nation of 60,000,000 will “have no choice” but to bend to the will of a neighbouring nation of 5,000,000. You have already admitted and clearly demonstrated your difficulty with economics and seem determined to exhibit a similar lack of expertise in relation to the reality of nationhood. Can you offer anything at all, by way of substance, to support assertions, which you yourself confess have been arrived at from a position of complete and utter ignorance of the subject matter?
Couldn’t agree with what you say more. If we consider the fact that New Zealand, when they gained independence, retained The Pound for many years before moving to a currency of their own, why not Scotland? New Zealand is similar in population to Scotland but does not have the same natural resources as Scotland does/would have, which is why most economists believe that Scotland could be a successful independent country.
Given as is said above, the UK debt is increasing, not decreasing, the loss of 10% of contributions to pay it down could prove more than a little problematic for rUK. If Scotland were to move to it’s own Pound in the fullness of time, that currency could well become worth more than the rUK Pound, a frightening thought for Westminster, hence all the sudden panic and trips north for senior politicians in the Better Together camp.
Independence could be very good for Scotland but a disaster for rUK.
Hi Ron.
For the avoidance of doubt, I feel I should point out that New Zealand was not part of the UK, had no UK debt liability and did not, at any time, enjoy currency union with the UK. They used the Pound in the same way as anyone can use the Pound but did not have access to a UK based lender of last resort.
Should Scotland, which unlike New Zealand is part of the UK and has a UK debt liability, decide that their Plan B is to use the Pound without access to a lender of last resort and refuse to accept ANY and ALL liabilities, then it will, in so doing, waive their right to ANY and ALL of the assets, including those assets in the North Sea.
The inevitable consequence of saying, as First Minister Salmond has, “no assets then no liabilities” is “no liabilities then no assets”. It is morally and legally impossible to walk away with no debt and with the most valuable assets and to attempt to do so would, in my opinion, be completely insane.
I think you’ll find your reference to The North Sea to be wrong in international law Bruce.
The basic point I was making was NZ is a perfectly sound, small, independent country. Are you disagreeing with that fact? Leading on from that statement of fact, there is no reason cannot be likewise with all the resourses that we have that NZ does not.
We are of course talking about independence Bruce. NZ is now independent, as are Canada, India, Australia and many other countries, all once part of The British Empire, or would you care to hair-split in regard to all of them. These days are gone and I think the people of Scotland have seen through the “benefits” of “better together” – food banks, starving, cold, pensioners, gross mismanagement of the economy etc etc.. Time to move on methinks.
I live in Torry…in a council flat so my comments are not influenced by property prices. I do a safety critical job and work shifts. Some nights the noise from the generators on the boats in the harbour is unbearable and even with double glazing I can hear it. If I want to open my window there is not much chance of sleep. The noise depends on things like wind direction so some nights there is a bit of respite…however if the bay was developed as a harbour that would be added noise plus extra nights noises as wind direction may mean noise from there on different days. Also the bay is an important leisure space for the local community. It is looking a bit sad just now…could do with a bit of a facelift and regular litter collections plus at the moment the smell from the sewage is evil. The residents of Torry deserve something to be done to enhance their wellbeing not drop yet another industrial nuisance on our doorstep. Sort the smell out and give us back our beach…
Hi Ron,
First of all Ron, you cannot promote the use of international law in relation to rightful claims to assets whilst ignoring such law in relation to liabilities. I know reality is a difficult concept for nationalists but they will have to come to terms with it sooner or later.
There is, as you say, nothing stopping Scotland from being a successful independent country but it is not “hair splitting” to point out that comparing Scotland with imperial colonies of the UK, who were not part of the UK and who did not, at any time, use the Pound as part of a currency union is quite ridiculous. Scotland is not a colony of the UK, it is an integral part of the UK and was an enthusiastic partner in the imperial rule and exploitation of colonies such as those you mention. Neither Canada, Australia, India or New Zealand sought independence on the basis of relying on the Bank of England to dictate their monetary policy or to bail them out in the event of problems. This is what made them truly independent as opposed to the cowardly and pathetic half – way option favoured by Scottish Nationalists.
Hi Bruce. So what you’re telling me is that New Zealand did not use the Pound for a lengthy period after gaining independence, whether or not the Bank of England was Bank of Last indulgence?
Of course they “used” the Pound but, as anyone can do, but not as part of a “currency union” as proposed by the Yes Campaign/SNP and their supporters. This would not have been permitted in the case of New Zealand and will not be permitted in the case of Scotland. As things stand, and I’m listening to Alex Salmond confirm this as I type, no alternative to currency union is being considered.
Using the Pound independent of the Bank of England is, as you say, one option but there will be negative consequences, which perhaps explains the reluctance of the Yes Campaign to announce this as their Plan B.
What would be be your preference Ron; Pound without the B of E or Euro?
“Who said anything about moral superiority”? The entire Yes campaign, including many of your own contributions, assert that Scottish people place more emphasis on social justice and equality than our southern neighbours. Indeed, this is quite often the only argument provided in favour of Scottish Independence.
If you are not, for a change, making such an assertion, what is it you feel is different about our “political aspirations and outlook”?
That, young Bruce, is self evident. Even you must be aware.of them.
No I’m not aware of them and would be genuinely grateful if you could enlighten us.
On the subject of international boundaries: You seem to be saying that all the eminent lawyers, academics and indeed senior politicians are wrong that, in their opinion, Scotland would have entitlement to 90% of the oil that lies in the North Sea in Scottish waters. Have I got that correctly? There has always been a border between Scotland and England as you well know. You may even recollect that, in fairly recent times Westminster had the audacity to move that border line over the North Sea to their advantage.
What I am saying is that you can’t have it both ways. There is not even the remotest chance that Scotland can walk away from the UK with assets but no liabilities. Even attempting to do so would result, as I see it, in the most severe repercussions for an independent Scotland.
Should Scotland accept it’s share of the debt, they will receive their rightful assets based on geographic boundaries. Geography was never my strong point, indeed I’ve never had any strong points, so could you just remind me where the Bank of England is located please?
Hi again Bruce. Empty rhetoric? That would be the statements made by most senior economists to the effect that Scotland was perfectly capable of being a successful independent country. Perhaps the rating agencies got it wrong to in their statement that Scotland would be afforded the highest rating (something Westminster lost). You are a one Bruce. 🙂
I think you will find that the one singular comment, to which you refer, was qualified by a number of caveats including currency and EU membership but I have yet to hear anything of substance to clarify how we would fund our public services. Perhaps you can do that for us?
As an aside Ron, I accept that no one knows what the future might hold for us, independent or otherwise, and I fully accept that my scepticism may be completely misplaced. Nevertheless, nothing I have said is factually incorrect, unreasonable or anything less than widely shared by knowledgable commentators. You, on the other hand, appear to be possessed of an absolute certainty and, given your parting comment, appear to be showing a degree of frustration that others do not share this absolute certainty.
Every argument/discussion has two sides Bruce. You are quite entitled to your opinions, as am I. There are many “experts” in this world and many have been proven wrong – on both sides of any argument.
This referendum s about self determination. Don’t you agree every nation state should have that privilege? Scotland has long been a nation state, one which, because of the error of judgement by a few wealthy individuals, opted to join with another. The new “conglomerate” has, in the eyes of many of us, made a number of errors of judgement. Had Margaret Thatcher opted to follow the example of Norway, what a different and inclusive nation we would have now. Had Gordon Brown (ably assisted by his Tory friends) not allowed such lassitude in banking sector, we would not be in the parlous state we find ourselves in. Those are the reasons many Scots want change, with control moving from a failed Westminster system to one closer to home, managed by those best placed to do so – those resident in Scotland.
Hi again Bruce,
You can’t have it both ways. “They will receive their rightful assets based on geographic boundaries.” The geographic boundaries are clear and laid down in international law so, clearly, the massive oil and gas reserves in The North Sea and West of Shetland (and potentially The Clyde) would be Scottish assets, not the preserve of Westminster, as at present. That’s not a bad start – a significant bonus I’d say. Geography doesn’t need to be your strong point, try Mr Google, who should be able to resolve matters for you on that score.
We can agree that sterlingisation could well be problematic for Scotland in the short term but much more so for Westminster. If you have massive debts and lose 10% of your income, it become more than a little problematic. At least one of the credit rating agencies has given Scotland a 4 star rating, the same agency removing that status for the UK. Not a bad start I’d say for an independent Scotland.
Last time I looked, The Bank of England resided in Threadneedle Street. Hope this clarifies. I seem to recollect the head honcho there – a Canadian. Apparently there’s no competent Englishman to do the job) saying he would be able to work with whatever scenario emerges from the independence referendum.
I know which way I’ll be voting today. What you do is, of course, entirely up to you.
Hi Bruce,
Perhaps the fact that Scotland has, for many, many, years voted Labour, while our friends, south of the border have vote for the other main party (but moving in significant numbers to UKIP).I seem to recollect that we have, at present, one Tory MP. Would that give you a clue I wonder? Not since the 50’s have the Tories had any meaningful presence in Westminster, elected by Scottish voters. I think we can agree that the aspirations of Labour and The CONservatives are at some variance when it comes to social equality.
In saying that, the massive swing to the SNP in Scotland, leading to, what was thought to be an impossibility – a single party majority in Holyrood – shows that Scot’s are now, clearly, unsettled with the actions of Westminster and want change. Perhaps you would disagree with that also..
Perhaps Edinburgh should be the new capital of UK? that would keep everybody happy…
It’s all academic now as the people of Scotland have employed their democratic right to good effect and have rejected Independence. Now it is up to our leaders to accept the sovereign will of the Scottish people and work positively to improve and enhance our lives as part of the United Kingdom.
Some faertie Scots hae voted no,
For their children struck a blow.
Nae vision hae they fowkies got.
A coorin’ ,timerous, motley lot.
To nuclear weapons they do aspire,
The consequences could be dire,
While folk do freeze and food banks abound,
Kids wi a rumblin’ belly sound.
A wealthy nation we may be,
What does that do for you and me?
As long as London holds the purse strings,
We’ll aye be poor, impoverished things.
Ron,
I really wanted to leave this alone and, in keeping with the sentiments of Bob’s excellent and wonderfully presented piece, never ever ever comment on the Referendum again. Unfortunately, you have broken my resolve.
Your denunciation of the clear majority of the Scottish electorate as blind cowards who would rather indulge in mass murder than feed those in need is, in my view, indicative of a shameful degree of arrogance and ignorance.
You profess to love your country but express utter contempt for the majority of the people of Scotland on the basis that they disagree with you. Do you really view the world through a prism in which the only view or opinion of any value is that which mirrors your own? The Referendum is over, the democratic will of the people of Scotland has been expressed and it is time to move on.
This will definitely be my last word on this subject and I apologise to readers of AV who have endured my regular comments in recent weeks/months.
A thunk ye Bruce fer comments aboot ma poem. Nae need ti apologise fer regular comments on es subject. AV likes ti hear fowk’s views including Ron’s even tho it wid appear ti hae bin written in a fit o pique.Obviously Ron his bin listinin ti his Glorious Leader ower muckle as Wee Eck himsel is a past maister o decryin the fowk in Scotland fa held a different viewpoint fae himsel.Peety fer him tho’ aat jist ower twa million fowk in Scotland didna agree wi him. Feart? Coorin an Timorous? Tut tut Ron aats gyaan a bittie ower the score min.
A good selection of topics this week Suze.
It’s pretty clear Sir Ian will not rest until he gets his way and concretes over UTG. What would we expect from a businessman faced with a prime city centre site, which could be developed and made highly profitable for someone? The fact that it’s a park on Common Good ground is a mere inconvenience. No doubt loads of dubious propaganda will now flow espousing his case, as before.
Equal pay for women is a strange one. Legislation was passed, many years ago, to allow this to happen. Strange, government has never enforced it don’t you think? Given, without the female race, none of us would be here, an argument could be made that the ladies are a fundamentally more important part of society than the men who, albeit, play a small “part” in the process.
The result of the referendum, as you say, still rancors many. For my own part, why a nation, given the opportunity of self determination rejects it, is perverse. We are definitely not too wee or too poor, so maybe we are just too feart? I suspect, with the back peddling of the Unionist Parties, this one may run and run for some time. The present feeling seems to be that nuclear weapons and power on the world stage are fundamentally more important than feeding the poor and heating their homes. Here’s me thinking government’s first priority was to the welfare of their citizens. Ah well – back to the drawing board.
Thanks for your thoughts Ron. I’m just a girl of course, but it certainly looks as if law enforcement in our little city and shire are completely arbitrary. Actually, arbitrary isn’t it – the laws are ignored or enforced depending on what pleases some of our wealthier citizens. For instance, guidelines, not law, is being enforced and that’s why the deer population is being destroyed. The law says that Trump must obey planning permission; tell that to Michael Forbes who can’t access the path to the beach any longer, his mother who as I undertsand it still doesn’t have adequate running water (she’s 90), or Susan Munro, who now stares at a bank of earth topped with dead trees where once her cottage looked over the sea. One law for one, another for the well-heeled.
As to my accusation of yellow journalism; today’s P&J’s cover featuring Sir Ian Wood talking of ‘killing’ the city centre by not letting him build in our gardens adds just a little weight to my argument, or so I think.
No doubt some of my usual critics will be on me soon to complain I keep writing about SIW and our gardens: well, if the P&J are going to keep his side of the argument (flimsy as it is) alive, then I’ll keep doing my ripostes. Cheerio, Tally ho, etc.
The good news is that the MSP who represents the residents at Menie says he loves nothing more than serving his constituents and should have more time to do so in the near future.
The bad news is Donald Trump has refused to rule out the possibility of running for the US Presidency this time around. You have to laugh!
The people of Aberdeen (those that really matter on this issue) were all given a vote on whether we should build the city gardens in UTG, the result was they did want it. Labour gave the people of Aberdeen and democracy a slap in the face when they overturned the vote, they also campaigned against Scotland being ran by its own people. They’ll pay for this at the next elections, local and general.
I have to say I fully agree with Sir Ian Wood in today’s paper, the council are asking us what we want in the City just 2 years after ignoring what we wanted. The city centre meanwhile has continued to go downhill, union street and the hole in the ground are a shambles. Where are all the do gooders campaigning to save the garden? any time I go past it it’s empty. No doubt they’ve moved on to other campaigns, perhaps opposing plans to increase the harbour expansion, the harbour that is the heart of our oil industry that employs so many. Or maybe they’re still bleating about a golf course that has also brought employment and money to the area.
All in my opinion of course. (which won’t stop it being moderated beyond recognition.
You obviously don’t pass the gardens on a sunny day Bill. Like all other public parks, it is well used then, also when events are held there. You may not have noticed the large marquee, erected for Octoberfest either.
While much was made of expanding the park by covering the road and railway in The Denburn, no one in the business community is prepared to take on that task, apparently, without the proposed swathes of concrete over the existing park. I wonder why that is?
Nae money ti bi made jist deein aat Ron
Hello Duncan; I’d like to know what organisations you are referring to regarding Romanian dog adoptions. When you write:- “A traffic in Romanian canines developed and, for around £600 a pop, folk in Scotland could adopt a Romanian street hound. No questions asked and delivered to your door for a fee.
“Having been asked to report on the trade I soon discovered that there were insider interests at work who perhaps felt threatened by outsiders looking in. I of course backed off. At 10p a word who in their right mind wants to get shot or worse? The nutters had made their presence felt.”
I’d like clarification as to the evidence that leads you to conclude:- 1. no questions are asked of the would-be adoptive homes; 2. what insider interests are you talking about, and what was the evidence for this comment about them feeling threatened by outsiders looking in, 2. Who are you implying would cause you to ‘get shot or worse, and 3. what ‘nutters’ have made their presence felt and how?
If there are foreign dog adoption agencies that are unscrupulous, let us know which ones they are. If there are ‘dangerous nutters’ in the Romanian dog adoption business, we should know. If it is all just harmless prose intended to amuse, let’s hope you haven’t put people off adopting a foreign animal. There are plenty of animals here that need homes, but aren’t your implications a bit serious? Additionally, who had asked you to look into this? Many thanks for clearing these points up, Suzanne Kelly
PS – Are you certain Ferguson’s use of the Proclaimers’ quote, which clearly refers to the Scottish diaspora isn’t relevant? There are indeed millions of people with Scottish ancestry spread throughout North America. And as you know, ‘devils in skirts’ / ‘ladies from hell’ is an old, widely used expression which Ferguson nods to in his piece, which I for one find very well informed.
Thank you for this wealth of information Suzanne. Seems to be little in the way of accountability in where our cash goes, and a reluctance on the part of those receiving it to explain how it is used. Openness does not seem to part of their watchwords.
Och!
another indication of taxes wasted.
I suspect its probably not the elected parties that are to blame here, as elected parties come and go there must be a core inside local gov that dont have to give up positions for their opposite political counterpart. These are the ppl that are making all this happen, regardless of how the good ppl of Aberdeen vote.
I have to say I almost fell off me chair with laughter when i heard the leader of the labour party said he was going to start up a mansion tax to pay for more funding in the NHS.
The fact of the matter is that no matter how much money is put into any goverment body, the money will disappear as you have mentioned above. Unless they’ve discovered a lot of surgeons and consultants own mansions :))
politicians think we are all stupid
My thoughts are turning really nasty at this point, so best i leave it there..
Hi John,
I believe you may be missing the main point. This is not necessarily about money going into government bodies but is about money going out of government bodies to individuals and interests with no public accountability, transparency or audit trail to show who benefitted and why.
That land belonging to the City of Aberdeen, that is the people of Aberdeen, was sold off, at a tiny fraction of market value, to a company belonging to a local and apparently very influential multi – millionaire was shocking to even the most hardened of cynics.
The increasingly blurred lines and secrecy which surrounds such deals is scandalous and I look forward to hearing more about what I’m sure was a very thorough investigation into the ACC/Stewart Milne Group giveaway.
can you tell me why my comment was removed please.
Dear Paul, Please refer to Aberdeen Voice policy. I think you will understand why it was not added. If you wish to re-submit removing the elements of religious intolerance, suggestions of ‘stringing people up’, etc. etc., then we will evaluate it and hopefully be able to approve.
I think I did get it and agree totally with everything you say. Thing is, what do I do about it? I fear a surface is just being scratched somehow. i.e the above could account for what ACC take in on parking charges. Where is the real money going?
Phoning the Police would be a waste of time maybe.
This piece barely scratches the surface; hopefully it raises some questions. As far as the police are concerned, here’s an update. Back at the time Audit Scotland criticised the city for its property transactions, the police were asked to investigate how these transactions came about, etc. Well, the police and the city can find no record of any investigation or report. I have been engaging with both entities to try and get somewhere; no progress yet, but the police will be asked further questions soon, and the Information Commissioner will be contacted in the very near future.
Thanks for that valuable update Suzanne. I know, from my own limited knowledge and experience, that this does indeed only scratch the surface but for what it’s worth, I know that your efforts are greatly appreciated by many. Really looking forward to hearing more.
Apologies John for suggesting you missed the point. I read your post again after pressing “reply” and felt a little embarrassed for suggesting this. My impetuosity can still get the better of me sometimes.
thanks for the kind words. When I can update on the police and whether or not they carried out an investigation into the transactions, will let you know.
Well done Johnathan people need to look at the real facts behind these conflicts and how they have been fermented and how truth has been twisted to form a narrative to suit a political doctrine that puts the interests of a small group of people before peace.History shows us that truth is relegated or dismissed as conspiracy look into the Iran-Contra affair or the lies of the weapons of mass destruction that were not in Iraq and we get an insight into what goes on in the world of Geo politics
Yup, np 🙂
interesting and informative as usual Suzanne, keep up the pressure 🙂
My Grandpa Reynolds and most of his brothers and sisters attended Torry Public School. I think they lived in Victoria Road from around the early 1900’s. I would love to find out about their time attending the school.. Can anyone advise me how to research to find out more information?
Many thanks
Dear Mrs Coutts, if you are on Facebook, you might start by contacting the Torry Heritage Group; they can be found here https://www.facebook.com/groups/241504992690973/?ref=br_tf . Additionally the library in Torry on Victoria Road has local information. Good luck with your research; please let us know how you get on.
Many thanks for the info Suzanne. Will go over to the library and see what I can find. Jenny Coutts
Simply unbelievable! There are a number of extremely serious concerns and issues raised by this incident but what on earth prompts an individual to react instinctively by demanding that, first and foremost, the most important thing is that such matters must be transferred to Holyrood on an urgent basis?
Lest we forget, we live on a relatively small island. Depending on the whereabouts of any such vessel, the merest change in wind direction might determine whether it would be in Scottish waters, Norwegian waters, Irish waters or, god forbid, in the waters of the dastardly Westminster elite who would surely evoke the spirit of Drake, Nelson and Farage by immediately implementing a naval blockade.
The most important thing, surely, is that the UK and it’s neighbours are properly equipped and prepared to deal with such incidents and that they cooperate in a unified fashion to minimise any risk. The last thing anyone needs is political posturing and opportunism.
I am delighted to hear this. I worked alongside one of the crafting stalls this Easter in UTG when the roller skating rink was there, and it was great watching the activities. I would make a plea that the rink is not hidden in a marquee, because people do like to watch what is going on, and that will also attract people to the gardens. And please no huge ‘excluding’ fences!
I`ll share my thoughts 🙂
I think there where 2 reasons the council sells land cheap
1. Backhanders
2. Future tax income – turning empty land into a rate generator. Which is fine (honest) but you need to build some Schools. Perhaps the original value of the land could have paid for this? But when your cash strapped your options seem limited – we all know this.
Nuclear energy..
Nuclear energy. wind and tide energy are the future – like it or not.
Heres my logic
WE are all addicted to hydrocarbons. Unless you walk or cycle to work, dont heat your home and have no electricity either at home or at work then you cannot argue this point.
If we all decided tomorrow to switch to alternative power, the aeroplanes, ships trains and hgv still need to run, all this does is slow down the release of CO². How else is the bread going to get to the supermarket
all green policies work to help elongate the life of hydrocarbon energy. Nobody is trying to save the planet here as the planet will be perfectly fine, its our enviroment that we will destroy. We are releasing CO² trapped in the earth from a time when we couldnt have existed. Buy an electric car and use led lightbulbs – ace, we have just extended hydrocarbon use by 20 yrs. See? Green parties are there to aid Goverment, not actually be goverment
I say get it out of the ground and get it used up, the sooner the better. Dust off the rangerover and let the good times roll. Goverment imposing green taxes on less efficient vehicles? Utter nonsense, we are running out of a finite resource and they need to conserve it. Keep that in mind next time your hurtling down the M6. Look at all the cars around you, look at all the homes either side of you getting reading for a nice cosy winter, think of all the other M6`s there are in the world, the mind boggles..
:o)
I think there will be a market opening up for CO² removal from the atmosphere and deposited in solid form somewhere, somehow.
Anyhows, when we are finished with the offshore oil rigs, maybe these can be used as nuclear powerplants, will all the nasty stuff dropped down into the empty well, ready to be sealed off at a moments notice.
Thats me done, hope nobodys offended :O)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Perhaps we do need nuclear – but if so, it has to be in a system which is not capitalist. When you are trying to get the most for your money with the minimal safety/quality checks, that is, IMO, what leads to the nuclear disasters we’ve seen, and what will probably a contributing factor if not a root cause to future disasters. Cleaner energy should be being made affordable and reliable. (I do have a carbon footprint like everyone else; but I don’t have a car, use public/rail whenever possible, don’t have central heating, and try to do my bit for reducing waste).
Agreed, the nuclear thing, what you said.
No heating? not coming round your house for tea and cakes 🙂
I generally cycle to work and drive an efficient diesel when its windy ( it will get windier methinks) My motives arent green, I like cycling and I like to save money. I like green things, people who dont like windmills annoy me. Free energy is fun (The price is just the price, as they say in the oil industry)
Hydrocarbon age needs to run its course – then we can start to deal with it properly.
Remember those frosty patterns that used to form on the inside of your bedroom window when you where a kid? Burrr, those where the days, Cuddle in… 🙂
Thought provoking and informative as usual, as is the reply from John. The pros and cons of nuclear energy and the subsequent disposal of waste is something I seem to change my mind on frequently, mostly due to the conflicting information made available and my own ignorance.
Stewart Milne and widespread allegations of corruption within Aberdeen City Council(ACC) are, however, a subject on which I am far from beset by such indecision. Given that the police can find no trace of the anticipated investigation into land deals between companies owned or part owned by Mr Milne and ACC, have they given any undertaking to carry out an investigation now and can anyone come up with an explanation for the inability of ACC to record information concerning multi million pound land deals and the apparent incompetence of Aiberdeen’s finest, other than what some might consider to be blatant corruption?
PS – Torry Community Council meets on Thursday 16th October at 7:15pm in the Old Torry Community Centre (the Academy is closed for the school holidays). There will be a report back on the future of the Victoria Road School buildings as well as other important matters going on that affects us all. Open to all…see you there – from David Fryer on Facebook. I look forward to this meeting for many reasons – not least to find out more about how Victoria Road School was handled.
I’ll repost in case the first one got lost.
Great news you won’t be forgetting the CGP, was a complete travesty of justice why the people of Aberdeen were ignored in the referendum, a huge blow for democracy and a slap in the face for the majority who wanted it.
The vocal minority lost, it should be built at the first opportunity.
The labour shambles will be booted out at the first opportunity, another huge glass monstrosity now planned for our city, very strange where the vocal minority were on this occasion, would it be wrong for me to suggest that the lack of a well known rich person meant they weren’t interested in objecting to it??
[ Bill, re. delay in approving your post. As volunteers, with other responsibilities in our lives, moderators are not always available when comments arrive. We do try and check in regularly, but there will be periods where delays are inevitable]
your email robertsonp@parliment .uk …..does not work ???please advise
allan
terribly sorry; perhaps details have changed in the months since this article came out. Here is a contact list which may help; there is also a phone number in the article which may likewise be useful http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/lords/
I can’t argue with Monbiot, but the way things stand with the police and government, any predators introduced wouldn’t stand a chance. Illegal poaching, lamping, animal torture and raptor poisoning are realities that are not being adequately addressed. Putting Lynx and wolves into the wild in the present climate would only serve to foment wildlife crime. We can’t even keep deer safe in Aberdeen’s small park areas (remains of 4 deer found on Tullos in January and 1 on Kincorth Hill). This might seem a great plan to some, but this is far from a great time for it.
“There seem to be other groups wanting a train station in the gardens.”
Let’s make it clear that the Friends of Union Terrace Gardens as a group has not endorsed this idea. Our AGM last year firmly rejected the Halliday plans which had included plans for this.
Taking the lead from our members we are opposed to any plan that involves building in the park. If any future proposal comes forward concerning UTG, we will take advice from our members and act accordingly.
I do ‘myn’ and m,iss every. last one of them. Thanks for the memory Mr. Smith.
Bob, the next time I’m given a ballot paper, I’m putting you down as my write-in candidate. Cheerio, Suzanne
I think this is a great idea, glad it’s being done
I am old enough to remember more of these things than I would probably like Bob but great memories.
Hot rowies wi butter( fan rowies wis rowies) and Bona Cola. Fine min!
Ay Bruce. Aa in the days fin Mitchell &Muil made the best tattie crisps on the market.
I’m confused Suzanne. And of course I may not have understood. I remember seeing, at some time, a Power Point presentation thingy that showed UTG with a station, a performance area and a cafe, with lots of shadowy folks strolling along the lower level – mostly on loc-bloc, and that this would encourage footfall etc.from the station, and that this was the way forward for the gardens. This was not a HFM idea. Was it?
let’s see – first there was a plan from Peacock to build some features into the gardens such as performance and gallery space. Then magically Scottish Enterprise ditched their support for Peacock and supported what Sir Ian Wood (formerly of Scottish Enterprise) wanted. This was illustrated as a street level, concrete plaza with one or two token trees in planters. Then there was a public consultation on that, with worthies such as Rita Stephen coming round to businesses, saying the Peacock plan was dead, and asking for opinions. We were then told that we hadn’t understood the plans at all, and it wasn’t going to be a square like that. Other plans came; then there was the consultation on six shortlisted designs, with the wackiest (and not most popular with the public) winning – an Escher-esque granite spaghetti junction in the air; with layers of parking (never mind the underground burn), magical pine forests, an outdoor performance area (great for those January evenings) with a concrete potato chip shape over the stage that somehow we were going to be allowed to sit on top of – none of which required safety railings or barriers – although a Christmas tree erected last year required such protection. Plans changed every other day; the public was kept away from trivialities such as how the shortlist vote went, or why they couldn’t just say no at that time. Hope this clears things up. ???
Oops. Hope I haven’t posted twice. Trying to drink first coffee of the day and type at the same time. Thank you for the information Suzanne. The power point thingy I am remembering was much more recent, and for the life of me, I cant remember where it came from. But there was definitely a station, a performance place and a cafe. There were folk walking along a path paved with loc-bloc. Was this one of ACC’s projections. It wasn’t HFM’s because in their plan the lower level has gone, along with the trees, so it had to have come from somewhere. Perhaps it was another one of Prof. Prondynski’s projections. Well perhaps we will see, if as Cllr.Crockett has said there will have to be compromise on UTG.
Thanks Dorothy – I wonder if it wasn’t one of those Prondynski / AB+ presentations you are thinking of; I’d not seen this one. There may be plans being drawn up behind the scenes; would be surprised if there aren’t. However, whatever group that comes forward with plans for UTG had best expect a great deal of opposition for any plan that involves building. If Cllr. Crockett says compromise is required over the garden’s future (and I don’t doubt it), he’d best be meaning whether to have tulips or petunias, and nothing involving any trains, webs, buildings or other nonsense.
Just remembered. Must have been the Sunday Times article that prompted the memory. A member of a local group said that it would enhance connectivity. Not sure what Urban Realm would make of that. Bang goes another bit of heritage maybe.! Interesting times indeed. Wionder what the PbJ will make of it tomorrow.
If I register to sign the petition, can I be sure that the council won’t chase me for 56 year old parking fines?
well, if they can’t collect the tens of millions that shopkeepers allegedly are meant to stump up in tax, it’s likely they’ll try and go after you instead 🙂 However, all signatures will help. All we want are some answers and assurances. If we get the 250 signatures before 14/11, then the next committee meeting will consider the petition – so thanks in advance for signing and sharing.
What do you make of
“Alex Robertson is a grass
He likes to kiss the bosses (sic) arse”
sprayed in red on the bus shelter near the roundabout at the Hareness Road/Blackness Road junction, Dunc?
An attempt has been made to remove this, but it is still visible. Alex’s nemeses obviously thought about durability and sustainability given their perspex canvas’s proximity to the North Sea, its north-facing aspect and the dozens of hi-vis jackets which must rub against their art as tired, freezing patrons await the 18 bus to Dyce.
I have a part-completed song somewhere, inspired by the message daubed or sprayed on a wall in Chanonry, opposite St Machar Cathedral, warning “Tiny Tilly is back”. I wonder where he or she had been? Craiginches (Butlins by-the-Dee), perhaps?
When it comes to being “disingenuous” and indulging in “political point – scoring” Mr Allard and the leadership of his party take some beating. In this case, Mr Alllard carefully chooses a period between 2003 and 2007, thereby ignoring the previous four years of the same Labour led Administration, whilst noticeably referring to an optimistic “target” figure in an effort to create a false understanding of the SNP record. Furthermore, he neglects to say how many houses, built during the period of SNP government, were already approved for building, by the Labour led Administration, prior to his party taking power.
In short this is, in my opinion, a quite disgraceful attempt to mislead the public and is consistent, in my view, with a nationalist party whose uncanny ability to control information is reminiscent of European fascist parties of the 1930’s.
You’re scraping the very bottom of the barrel with this one imo, utter biased nonsense. Why no pictures of Mr Forbes barns and surrounding areas?
This is a scandal which, like the description of the predicted golf resort by the Scottish Government at the time they “called in” the application, is of “national significance”. That our very own Scottish Government played a leading role in foisting this carbuncle on our protected land and successfully circumvented established democratic procedure and planning law to fulfil the ambitions of their erstwhile favourite foreign billionaire is bad enough but that the promises of jobs and tourism turned out to be completely false adds insult to injury.
A unique area of land, given the highest possible level of legal protection, was destroyed by our own government to satisfy the whim of someone, whom in my opinion, they thought would gain them political advantage whilst the human rights and lives of our own citizens became collateral damage in a cosy little accord between two of the most grotesquely vulgar individuals ever to walk a golf course. One a politician and the other merely rich.
Perhaps the long – suffering residents might seek help from their MSP now that he has relinquished his old job and renewed his friendship with the Donald?
Well said Bruce. There was a piece in the Sunday Sun headlined “Donald Dump” which was pretty apt when you look at the mess. Discarded trolleys were called “Stuck in the Rough: Wooden furniture cluttered around sheds were “The frame’s a bogey”: and ornamental lights had were ordered to be taken down by Aberdeenshire council because they were fixed on the Munro’s property were “Looking under par”. Now it is not often that I would praise what the Sun says, but on this occasion they were absolutely right. As they said “Tycoon’s course is in a right state.” Never a truer word spoken. As ever Mr. Trump’s spokesman declined to comment. If this mess had been left by erstwhile travellers there would have been an outcry in the local press. Have we heard a word? No. Could that be because Mrs.Bates works for Donald the Dump?
I have no knowledge of this issue whatsoever but the sums quoted seem to be straight out of the SNP arithmetical text book. Assuming an average salary of around £30,000 per year, that is £600 per week, for a police constable and a conference lasting a week at most, this would mean that around 1000 police officers attended this event for the entire duration.
I was unaware the LibDems had become so important that they merited a personal bodyguard for each and every one of their delegates. Now if only the SNP would pay back the money they spent to prevent the disclosure of EU advice which they they knew full well did not exist and had never even been requested, they might be in a position to claim the moral high ground on alleged unpaid bills.
Yet another episode of blatant hypocrisy from Mr Allard I would suggest.
Spot on again Bob. Seems to me the priorities got mixed up somewhere along the line.
You have excised, most succinctly, the midden in the lair of the Ogre of Glenbuchan
Re the relative populations of the four nations of the UK, I think you’ll find the population of Norn Ireland is about 1 million, not 4.5 million. The Republic is about 3 million, but is not, of course, part of the UK.
Hi Alex – many ways to do the counting; point taken of course. Here is Wikipedia on the subject (while they are not infallible, their info seems to be what other sites are saying) “The population of the island of Ireland in 2012 was approximately 6.4 million comprising 4.58 million in the Republic of Ireland with another 1.8 million in Northern Ireland. Although this is a significant growth over recent years, it is lower than historical figures.” Perhaps the entire emerald isle should be consulted on the UK’s future, just to throw an idea out there for consideration in a devil’s advocate kind of way
Indeed David, the council can try to cover up the cracks however in the end the graffiti arseist will always prevail.
my name is aristote wanga ikombo I’m artist musician in africa in the Democratic Republic of Congo in the kinshasa city
ok i want to come do my new album in your studio i want you to do me a booking
my
project
( recording end mixing / album of 6 tracks. the day i want to come in your studio is on the 5 of january 2015
Hello – please contact the studio directly if you want to book anything; details are in the article
Sincere thanks to Andrew Douglas for clarifying the situation and for confirming Mr Allard’s apparently growing reputation for inaccuracy, ineptitude and blatant opportunism.
Mr Allard and his constituency assistants have, in my opinion, contributed a number of articles/statements to Aberdeen Voice and have at no time responded to polite and pertinent challenge to their embarrassingly partisan and highly imaginative narrative.
It is to be hoped that Mr Allard will make a public apology for what appears to be yet another deliberate attempt to deceive the public.
I am an expat’ but a keen supporter of Scottish independence. However, having watched the events in Aberdeen/Menie Estate I must say that Scotland does not appear to be fit for independence. The corruption, incompetence and parochialism of those in positions of power are almost laughable and an albatross around the neck of the Scottish people.
Strange why you object to what are one sided articles in your opinion, this is exactly what this publication does on numerous matters imo, the CGP for example was favoured by the majority of those who voted the referendum, you only got one side of the story on here.
Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
I for one am all in favour of a new harbour, Nigg bay is an eyesore imo, no amount of “sssi” will change that, weird why these special places of scientific interest always pop up when people object to something. It will create jobs and bring tourists to our City, what’s not to like.
If anything it will create an extra habitat for wildlife, you want to oppose something that really affects wildlife then you should be opposing the offshore windmills imo, they do real damage…..oh sorry I forgot, Mr Trump doesn’t like them so they’re ok in your eyes.
Maybe if you looked up the facts about this development you’d see you’re
not speaking much sense.
It’s for decommissioning oil platforms.
I think you’ll find oily water, noise, light pollution, engine fumes,
Hundreds of vehicles do not add up to a habitat that wildlife would be rushing to .
There is no doubt that “long term solutions” are needed but there is no point in criticising intervention, at the request of those suffering at the hands of ISIS, without providing alternative proposals, other than doing nothing.
Finding a way forward in the Middle East is difficult enough but pretending that centuries of bloodshed and ethnic and religious conflict was somehow created by Western involvement is a poor starting point.
It would be helpful if we were to be told what level of special expertise, experience or knowledge these guest speakers might have, which would entice people to come and listen to what they have to say.
Slow news week at the Voice HQ??
Well hello Bill – yes, a slow week. No one interested in this issue except me, the national press, and the several hundred who have read it so far. Some pictures showing the access problems at present can be found here http://menie-estate-report.yolasite.com/
I, for one, am extremely grateful that this scandal continues to be highlighted and that the apparent willingness of council officers and politicians, including First Minister Salmond, to encourage and condone unlawful behaviour by individuals on the basis of their wealth is exposed.
The infamous meeting between Salmond and Trump, which resulted in the the Scottish Government taking the unprecedented step of overturning established democratic process by “calling in” the original planning application and led to the similarly unprecedented building of a commercial development on land which had the highest possible level of legal protection, is ample evidence, in my opinion, that we live in a corrupt state in which our own national leader puts the interests of foreign billionaires before those of his own constituents.
Thank goodness for the AV and other outlets for reminding us of the wrongs committed in support of this golf course, because the likes of the EE and the P&J will never do so.
Vote for change in May.
The dilemna John is what/who to vote for in terms of the Menie residents. Their MSP is Salmond and he has done nothing to support them, and look at the composition of Aberdeenshire council. This situation is a shocking indictment of how our councils are run, especially in terms of the permanent officials. I would be pleased to hear how you think this situation could be resolved in May.
The Scottish Green Party has been against the development from the start.
Vote Green
http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/blog/westminster2015/
this article on the opinions of individual persons to their opinions on the harbour situation i have never had any contact with the citizens paper i have never met or saw the other woman concerted her opinion is of no concern of mine i gave my opinion and my opinion only as to the opinions of mr bill stephens and david nicol their opinions are thier prerogative and theirs only i think that you would agree that no matter what we think a decision about how we feel is beyond our feelings and is without our control the matter has been passed on by a higher authority than ours as if anyone from the citizen wants my opinion i will gladly give it to them best wishes alan reid
I think that I might call this a run-on sentence, and one that’s particularly hard to follow. Either you want to have Nigg Bay turned into a no-go, private industrial zone or you don’t.
PS – Are you aware that the Citizen is sister paper to the Evening Express and the P&J? They are all published by Aberdeen Journals Ltd. What you say to one can get used by the others. Get them to print a correction. However you are completely wrong to think this decision is out of our hands: you may choose to be dictated to about the future of Nigg Bay, but I don’t, and nor do others. It is your democratic right to protest and object.
David,
A remember him weel.
Aye, Bob, a friendly and funny man when I spoke with him, and a good friend of many of the 66-67 squad with whom I still have contact. Alas, their numbers are getting fewer. I have written obituaries for Franny Munro, Jens Petersen and Davie Johnston in recent years, as well as the Boss himself.
A grand piece indeed. And please for the love of God, get that manuscript published before we’re all gone.
We deserve it, as did Jim.
No one want lie our here anymore
Fact is the people of the City voted for the city gardens project, it’s called democracy, for the council to overturn that is a disgrace that will stain them as long as they are in office, the people spoke…the council ignored them.
The £90 Million was to be paid for from new business rates, one only needs to look at the new business parks being built around the City to see that would have been no problem, now instead of retaining the money within our city it will go to the Central government and be spent elsewhere.
The people who didn’t want a new garden can spin all the scare stories in the World but a lack of finance or the people of Aberdeen having to directly pick up the tab isn’t one of them. Come out and say you don’t want it, don’t spin sensationalised rubbish to back it up. Very poor journalism in my humble opinion, no better than a Daily Mail headline.
You conveniently forget that the public initially voted AGAINST The UTG proposal Bill. Only after a whole lot of dubious figures and promises were thrown in to the arena did the public vote in favour. While everyone was broadly in favour of The Peacock Visual Arts plans (fully funded as I recollect), Sir Ian’s “vision” blew that out of the water. It does little credit to the cause that, after public “consultation,” the choice of The Web was selected, despite being the least supported by the public. The whole exercise was woeful and best forgotten.
We only had one vote where everyone was asked, I wasn’t even aware of the initial vote, have since found out activists voted numerous times in my opinion.
Dear Bill, if you found out that ‘activists voted numerous times’ – (we had to add the phrase ‘my opinion’ to this sensational claim) then you have more information than the rest of us. Despite numerous requests to see the votes and comments people made on the six shortlisted designs, the private entity, Aberdeen City Gardens Trust, which has the votes, refuses to let anyone else see them. Councillors told me they asked for the votes and were turned down. The taxpayer helped to pay for some of the voting process as well – and yet this unelected group of about 3 people has them. Doesn’t seem very democratic somehow. Further, the public were initially going to get the choice of saying no to the whole scheme during the shortlist process – and Gerry Brough and various unelected committees removed that choice, which councillors objected to.
“The £90 Million was to be paid for from new business rates”
Sorry, you can’t get away from the fact that a £90 Million pound debt is a huge debt that we can do without.
It would have been a TIF loan, not a debt to the people of Aberdeen, don’t let the scare stories by those opposed to this put you off.
As I recall, there was no offer of a “£90 million loan”. The loan offered was, I believe, only £70 million, which left a £20million black hole, to be filled by an alleged mystery £5 million donation from a mysterious anonymous donor and the remainder by….well by wishful thinking basically.
As for the repayment method, I seem to recall the business rates would be received from a specific area of development only, as opposed to region – wide and, given rumours of widespread redundancies in the oil industry and the recent 40% fall in the oil price, it is beginning to look extremely doubtful that this untried and untested method of repayment would have succeeded, even if the £20 million black hole was suddenly and miraculously filled. This would have resulted in Aberdeen City Council, that is the citizens of Aberdeen, including “Bill”, being left with the debt liability.
Of course, the referendum promise of hundreds of thousands of tourists rushing to Aberdeen to see the wondrous Granite Carbuncle, thereby creating thousands of jobs and making us all rich beyond our wildest dreams, was not at all wildly optimistic or unrealistic or cynical or a downright lie, as can be verified by the success of similar promises, in relation to the Trump development for example, which has brought tourists flocking from all over the world, filling our 5 star hotels to such an extent that their owners have decided to flog them off to their mates to give us more “luxury housing developments” and the promised new and exciting flights to and from Aberdeen, such as those to… Majorca and Majorca. Haud me back min!!
well, that’s a pretty concise, accurate summary of the state of things as far as I’m concerned; with all the numbers (some of them quite fanciful) flying around, it was hard to keep up.
Fact is Bill, the plans to raise the gardens were put out to public consultation and the result of the consultation was a clear No and that was to be the end of it. As seems to be popular in Scotland nowadays however, the clear No vote was ignored and the Yes supporters ploughed on and the population were even offered a choice on what they could say Yes to! This choice included the Granite Web but the public once again voted No to such a monstrosity and preferred an alternative option. Again, the public No vote was ignored and the public were asked to vote, yet again, whether or not the Web should go ahead. This time, the answer was Yes and,strangely enough, the verdict was accepted.
But just when I thought the scope for democratic choice had been exhausted, a political party stood for election on the basis of saying No to the Granite Web and they won. The voters had once again said No to this proposed development and this time, at long last, the matter was concluded, I think.
For some reason, which I don’t understand, there seems to be a significant minority who just won’t accept No for an answer on anything and only think an answer can be a democratic representation of the will of the people if the answer is Yes!
Do you think such an unwillingness to accept No and even an eagerness to interpret No as Yes is a welcome development Bill. Yes or No?
FACT is the people of Aberdeen were asked if they wanted it via a democratic referendum, they said yes.
Those opposed to it can cry all they like but they’re a minority IMO. They acted like spoilt brats imo when they lost, toys came out of the pram big style.
We’re now left with what is to me a cold dank hole in the ground and a decaying City centre, well done the minority.
congratulations to that ‘cold dank hole’ for winning an award recently for the quality of its flowers 🙂
Why do we need a spin doctor at ACC I wonder? Could it be the blatant lying of some councillors and senior officials has been found out? Perhaps the impressive salary being awarded for this non job would have better spent on educating the aforementioned parties on how to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and not prevaricating and blustering trying to make black seem white, costing the council tax payers significant sums in the process.
Poor old Bill – continuing to toe the EE / P&J line. Thank goodness many people can see beyond the nonsense that Aberdeen “needed” UTG to be raised.
I never buy or read either paper, I think for myself unlike many on here in my opinion.
I think UTG is a shambles that is empty the vast majority of the year, open your eyes our City is dying and needs regenerating, this could have been a great focal point.
Which other City in the World would reject a £50 Million donation to kickstart regeneration, utter madness to me, the people voted for it as well but a bunch of amateur politicians IMO turned it into a political football and ignored direct democracy, a disgrace IMO.
Nice one, Suzanne! Aberdeen needs the Tower Hamlets connection like a hole in the head.
I wish some reporter would check out the state of Graham Lawrences (Labour Councillor) garden to see if he should have been having any say over what happens to the CGP, it’s an overgrown shambles that hasn’t been tended to in years in my opinion.
Why local councils are ran [sic] by amatuer politicians in my opinion is beyond me, I believe local lever councils should not be about politics, it should be who’s best to represent the area where people live, it’s a disgrace that councillors have to tow the party line at this level. 20 independants would be a much fairer situation.
Quite right Bill, let’s get Ian Wood, Stewart Milne, Donald Trump and the like to run the city and shire without any need for councillors and elections and that kind of thing, come to think of it they already…..oops nearly said something controversial there Bill. With a Scottish Government talking left wing rhetoric whilst indulging the whims of their favoured billionaires, they could form a tartan Dream Team.
What could go wrong?
As for Cllr Lawrence’s garden, I heard he had hired the same firm of landscape gardeners as Trump. Have you seen the pictures of the “overgrown shambles” and giant mounds of earth at Menie? I agree with you that something should be done about this Bill. What would you suggest?
As has become tradition, the SNP actively promote the opening and operation of as many food banks as possible, so that they can, in my opinion, cynically blame others for the existence of food banks for the purpose of political and electoral advantage. The number of food banks has exploded during the years of SNP government as they work ever more closely with the Trussell Trust, a company which employs at least seventeen staff, ranging from Chief Executive to PR & Marketing Manager, Corporate Partnership Manager, HR Administration Manager etc. You know the kind of thing which any self respecting small business might need.
Mr Allard has, in my view, blatantly misled readers of Aberdeen Voice before and will, in my view, do so again. It is time, however, that people woke up to what, in my opinion, amounts to a cynical and opportunistic strategy of promoting something for no other reason than to use as a political stick to wave at opponents and falsely claim the moral high ground.
I have recently formed the opinion that the SNP prefer slogans and empty rhetoric to facts, details or rational debate and would not, therefore, expect any rebuttal of such accusations.
To clarify regarding what Bruce alluded to in an earlier comment re. the £70m figure, here is a fact ( yes, a fact ) which seems to have been continuously shoved under the carpet … and the edges of said carpet apparently stapled.
Progress of the Granite web was CONDITIONAL on £70m being raised from private sources/business community.
Sir Ian put up £50m. An anonymous donor pledged a further £5m …. leaving a £15m shortfall. As far as I can find ( or cannot find as the case may be ), to this day, not a single individual or business has gone on record even to express an interest in making a significant donation towards making up said shortfall.
We know you believe we should have had a granite web Bill, you’ve made that very clear. But whether you blame ‘activists’, the Council, Labour, voters, or the tooth fairy, the fact remains that the hordes of businesses/business leaders who voiced their support for the development ( or to get a mention in the press? free advertising? ) failed to put their hands in their pockets. Therefore the project was never going to see the light of day whatever the ( non-binding ) referendum result.
In simple terms … No dough, no go!
Before the referendum, supporters of the web insisted the money would come. It didn’t … and even in the period between the referendum result and the council elections, no individual or business went on record with a pledge of funds to breach the shortfall.
The idea of our City taking out a massive loan, whilst the private investors/business community were being too ‘careful’ with their own fortunes to address their side of the bargain, understandably I suggest, did not sit well with with a great many folks.
You seem to forget Sir Ian said he’d make up any shortfall, I get people don’t want the garden improved but why they make up scare stories to back their position I’ll never know.
Bill,
With all due respect, you are wrong again. Sir Ian Wood said he would make up any shortfall in the event of a cost over – run, over and above the £140 million budget. I can categorically state that he never, at any time, offered to make up the missing £15 – £20 million pounds to meet the original budget shortfall.
Regretfully, I must tell you that you are equally wrong when you say that no one was against the Gardens being “improved”. Indeed, prior to Sir Ian’s intervention, there was an approved proposal to build a visual arts centre, for which guaranteed money was, I believe, already in place, which attracted little or no controversy and which would not have risked any debt liability for Aberdeen City Council and the tax payer. I also seem to recall some enterprising and public – spirited cafe owners submitted very reasonable proposals to “improve” and attract people to the Gardens. Unfortunately, Aberdeen City Council, if my memory serves me correctly, rejected these proposals.
With regard to your response to Mr Bothwell below, I must wholeheartedly agree with you that you are definitely not providing me with competition. I do however look forward, with eager anticipation, to your next contribution to this discussion.
Peacock Visual Arts were working with Scottish Enterprise to have their arts centre in the gardens; it would have cost a few trees, and I admit I didn’t wholly love it at first. Compared to the ‘monolith’ design(?) or the granite web, it was the Taj Mahal of arts centres. It needed only a few million more; it would have cost a fraction of the pointless granite ramps to nowhere. Perhaps Bill, Sir Ian, or someone at Scottish Enterprise can finally explain why they decided to change projects mid stream? I had some past rhetoric from SE along the lines that they were only interested in a generic arts centre in the gardens, not necessarily Peacock’s plans. That however, in my opinion, doesn’t match the facts – they certainly did a lot of work with Peacock, and no other arts organisation before Sir Ian and ACSEF got interested in our common good land.
Bruce Wood wins hands down.
Are we in competition??
What a strange thing to say IMO.
My posts get edited so heavily it could never be a fair debate on here, IMO.
Bill, when you deviate (as you sometimes do) from our policy, we will clarify when your opinion is being stated where otherwise you make it look as fact; we’ve explained many times the policy for posting here. For someone who feels they can’t get a fair debate on here, you certainly expend time trying to do so. Please do take up our standing offer and write an article for us. As to your believe Steve’s question is strange; I in turn think it’s strange that you don’t get the importance of the articles of association for the private group we nearly handed common good land to. But mostly, I want to know where you get your information from as to people making multiple votes at the shortlist voting opportunity: you seem to have access to information no one else does if you are making such a statement as fact. Please tell us where this assertion came from, thanks.
Why didn’t Stevens quote get a IMO added after it??
I actually replied to his wife but the name has changed overnight, this place is just bizarre, a group of friends are the only people who comment apart from me, you’re no voice for Aberdeen, you’re a bunch of elitist left wing incomers, IMO, that’s my IMO not yours just so your friends reading here know.
I also had a post on your heavy editing not posted, your editing is trying to make my grammar look bad to aid your argument, that’s really not on. IMO!!
I’m not sure where to start with this one. We have never changed grammar; if a phrase or sentence is unclear, “[sic]” is sometimes used to reinforce it is the poster’s grammar and not the editors’. In fact, in the post above, we didn’t change/comment on the uncorrect ‘Stevens quote’. There is only one Steven, who made two comments – neither of which breached AV policy or needed any revision. As to the comment about friends making posts, Steven and Voice editor Fred Wilkinson are the only posters on this thread personally known to me. Steven will be interested to know he has a wife. He does have a mother. No one has changed any names, overnight or otherwise. I do not see any post from Bill about heavy editing; if Bill would like to give examples of how our modifying his comments (which is only done to make them suitable for use as explained ad infinitum) to make his grammar look bad, I will be more than happy to comment on any such examples; none of which exist to my knowledge.
Ok I’ll play along.
Why would you add an IMO to this sentence…..
What a strange thing to say.
Yet leave your friends sentence untouched….
Bruce Wood wins hands down.
Your editing just doesn’t make sense to me and is so clearly biased in my opinion it’s bizarre you’re even trying to argue the point, I’m obviously writing this so it’s clearly my opinion, please leave my posts alone like you do with the other contributors, If you believe I’ve said something defamatory then you have a right to edit, stop getting power hungry with my perfectly valid posts.
Yet again my post gets heavily edited, it wasn’t defamatory and was written in a clear concise manner yet you choose to add the stupid in my opinions all over it, if you treated every reply like this I’d say fair enough, if you want to run the place like that then fine but to single out me because I don’t agree with your hippy left wing stance is just strange.
For the avoidance of doubt I did not add any imo to the paragraph above, nothing in it is even bordering on being illegal.
I also note my question has been unanswered.
Aberdeen voice….you’re having a laugh.
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Perhaps Bill would like to see the Articles of Association for the City Gardens Trust?
Perhaps Steven would like to see the referendum result.
Susannah, the Tony Bliar pic/link isn’t working. For me, anyway. Perhaps you could check it out. Thanks.
Thank you for pointing that out; it should be fixed now – but if not – here you go – I understand people are printing the picture out and putting it on their mantle pieces by the Christmas stockings http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/01/blair-christmas-card-tony-cherie_n_6248996.html
Hello all – a comment has come in; it will be moderated when one of our other moderators has a chance. But to reiterate (sorry, yes again it seems necessary to do so), comments are moderated when deemed appropriate to do so; you may agree with the way they are moderated; you may not agree. Aberdeen Voice’s policies on what is acceptable and what isn’t may or may not agree with your views. Enjoy. Or not.
You have truly outdone yourself this time, Suzanne – an absolutely superb piece of writing! I’m sending the link to various friends, including a couple in the US, who have watched Mr Baxter’s first documentary & are appalled at what happened.
why thank you very much; glad you liked this work of fiction. All the best
PS – here is a link to last year’s Christmas time satire, cheers https://aberdeenvoice.com/2012/12/how-sir-ian-grinch-stole-christmas/
What a lovely seasonal tale and I hope all of these adorable fictional characters coin it in, sorry live, happily ever after and that they don’t simply go on to become sad caricatures and figures of ridicule.
I can’t help thinking, however, that it all sounds very familiar and close to home. Perhaps I dreamt it?
Strangely enough though, in a quite remarkable coincidence, I’m sure I read of some concerns raised recently by the wealthy residents of the western suburbs of a similar – sounding city, in relation to the fact that someone called “wee Stewart” had bought a magnificent inn, renowned for attracting thousands of players of the game known as golf from all over the world, from someone called “saft Stewart” with the intention of turning it into magnificent.. eh..offices but retaining the original part of the main building. The concerns of the residents are that, having submitted plans and proposals on this basis, “wee Stewart” has changed his mind and decided to knock the whole thing down and improve the lives of residents even further by building hundreds of magnificent..eh..flats instead.
Like your own kingdom, such decisions rest with someone called King Kowncil and it is believed, by many of his subjects, that Kowncil is really a slave of the Stewarts and their noble peers.
They do say truth is stranger than fiction!
People
Do not give up just because a bunch of NEEPS IMO masquerading as councillors decide to inflict on generations the curse of modern developments To hide, obscure the facade of the worlds greatest granite building – Marischal College and call it a Square.
Join Aberdeen Beautiful a new organisation set up to inflict as much embarrassment as possible on the NEEPS for all the horrendous, ghastly buildings IMO they have proudly seen fit to foist on us. Wither now elected or not, the scars left behind by each councillor’s inability to understand the city they live in and the duty of care they own it will haunt them.
” Ian Gordon, an authority on salmon fishing in Scotland, commented:”
err what authority ?
i agree ban all salmon netting, matter of fact ban all salmon fishing using rods too. scrap catch and release too. so no more salmon being caught for food and no more salmon being tortured for ages by anglers for sport.. then government can pay the salmon fishermen millions in compensation for lost earnings and lost jobs.
and then what ? will the penny finally drop, who and what will they blame then for the lack of salmon in our waters. ?
Looking at the list of guest speakers, this has all the makings of yet another post – referendum nationalist rally. Cue emotional flag waving and tub thumping speeches on the subject of how the dream has not died.
Excellent event.
The message?
Get involved.
With Common Weal.
With your Community Council.
In local government.
Just get involved.
Gordon,
How do you know it is an “excellent event” two months before it takes place?
I know because I was there. The month stated should be December and not February.
Apology accepted.
[ Thanks Gordon. February was the month given in the press release, but having now checked, I see that it was supposed to be December. Although the event has now passed, I have amended the month so it is at least accurate as an archive reference. – Editor ]
Difficult to believe that we are having to resort to petitions in order to try and prevent what appears to be a genuine crisis for salmon stocks and potentially for the wider natural environment. For the Scottish Government to ignore the statistics and continue as if nothing is wrong would be criminally irresponsible,
Such a shame that yet again the river owners and coastal salmon fishers are at loggerheads. The Scottish heritage industry is again challenged by landowners whose only aim is to protect lucrative riverside beats.
Perhaps detractors should look to the salmon farming industries contribution to the nations economy.
“Using the Scottish Government’s multiplier, the £36 million wage-bill translates to an input of almost £166 million to the Scottish economy, most of it in the Highlands and Islands. According to its own figures, the industry spends a further £223 million on supplies and services in Scotland – £143 million of this in the same area. Of the 6,200 full and part-time jobs in aquaculture, 1,579 are in remote, rural locations – and contrary to popular perception, just 13% of these jobs are held by migrant workers. On the face of it, these impressive totals would appear to outweigh angling-related jobs lost to the area.”
The hard fact is that they aren’t interested. The motorised traffic lobby will always win.
Two recent significant spends in Aberdeen are useless. Making pavements shared paths alongside Great Northern Road and Jesmond Drive are pointless for cyclists.
In Great Northern Road, the surface is poor and there are bus shelters with their concomitant bus queues along the route, narrowing it and blocking it (no fault of those queuing for buses). There are a number of junctions where cysclists have to stop, take cognisance of traffic and start from 0 MPH again. I’ll take my chances on the carriageway and in the bus lane, thanks.
On Jesmond Drive (and in Dubford/Greenbrae), there has been significant spend on dropping kerbs, signage and paint to encourage cyclists to use the pavements. Not when I’d have to stop at every one of the dozen or so road junctions, I’m afraid. I suspect that this is almost an admission that there is going to be a significant increase in through traffic on Jesmond Drive (despite Council denials, without supporting statistics) once the Third Don Crossing is opened, and pesky cyclists must be kept off the carriageway. I’ll still be there.
Give me the properly thought-out and adequately-resourced infrastructure that SEPARATES me from both motorised traffic and pedestrians and I’ll use it.
Otherwise, don’t bother.
The Bay of Nigg, the jewel of Aberdeen, soon to be lost forever? I regularly walk near the path south of the foghorn, at all times of the year. There are many varieties of birds to photograph, and rockpools at low tide for parents to take children to investigate. Various plants and insects for close-up photography.
Interesting rock formations carved by sea action.
A run round by the Bay of Nigg is enjoyed by many bus-loads of tourists, and regular minibus trips with local groups of pensioners.
The area has been badly neglected by the city fathers (and mothers?). Now it is to be obliterated?
A beautifully written, particularly heartfelt piece from you this week Suzanne – it is much appreciated by this reader.
Right on …
Hi Suzanne,
Contrary to the opinion of some I’ve never met you but I will be attending a “Je suis Charlie” event in a small village in South West France tomorrow. It promises to be an extremely poignant occasion and I will think of some of your words when I’m there.
Keep up the good work and Happy New Year
Hello Bruce – I hope to meet you some day; indeed – we’ve never met contrary to the protestations of some. Interesting times and all that.
“to send the youth of Scotland to their deaths in the madness of the trenches of France and Belgium during the first years of that war” Gosh was it only the Scot’s fighting in the trenches…. but you do not mention the Scot’s who were at Omdurman….referring only to “British”?
Sorry but your first paragraph uses the same emotion rousing misinformation that Kitchener used to rally the troops!
Suzanne,
Would you mind answering why this publication is not up in arms at the proposals for the hideous Marischal square development?
I’m really intrigued as it appears right up your street.
Could I hazard a guess and say the fact no “rich” figurehead makes it a missable target? If Wood, Milne or Trump was involved you’d be all over it like a rash in my very honest humble opinion. It does the credentials of this place no good at all, again in my opinion. It makes you look like a left wing propaganda rag in my opinion.
As for the Charles Hebdo incident it’s something that’s been in the post for a very long time and will only get worse, another thing the left wing needs to look at itself very closely over, mass immigration with very little integration was always going to end up badly, it appears Enoch Powell may have been correct all along. A lot of these people don;t want to live under the laws of their chosen lands, they want to impose Sharia law on the indigenous people, the slaughter of the journalists is but one example of this in my opinion. Again all in my opinion, I know it isn’t a paragraph that will sit well with the resident lefties here but it’s what many people are thinking, your ilk have created a runaway train and now have blood on your hands in my opinion.
Hello Bill. Sometimes I get the oddest feeling of deja vu – or of banging my head against the wall. This publication is only what the contributors make it; it does not take up arms. I would have thought the various articles about Marischal and St Nicholas’ House over last year would have counted as coverage, but perhaps not. I do hope that the people who have strong feelings about the project either way (there is at least one petition in circulation) will choose to do an article.
As to your assertion that ‘people of your ilk have created a runaway train and now have blood on your hands’ (we had to add ‘in my opinion’ obviously) – i look forward to seeing what others have to say about your stance. From where I sit it’s not the people with opinions that have blood on their hands, it is the people who have killed others who have blood on their hands. Always interesting hearing from you, Bill. Suzanne
Would you have shown more interest in the Marichal square development if one of the aforementioned rich people was involved?
I think this question is very pertinent as to the motives behind your articles, if you wouldn’t mind answering I’d be grateful.
Bill, you really ought to read my stuff sometimes. I explained in a column ages ago that I’d campaigned against the development, against anything that would alter or change the Provost’s House. I was going to give a deputation – but having done the homework, realised the ship had sailed. I wish the campaigners well; I’ve signed petitions that are out there. They are more than welcome to do an AV piece – as are you; something we’ve hinted at several dozen times. I don’t like the plans; it doesn’t matter to me that none of the usual suspects seem to have direct connections to it. So – exactly what have you done about it if you’re an opponent? Am all ears (as any photograph of my face seems sadly to show).
Bill- you are, as ever, entitled to your view, as others are, but it would serve you well to temper some of your throw-away statements, which are insulting and rather inflammatory, and, in my opinion, serve no useful purpose in debate, if debate it is you wish. I would recommend that you read Stephane Hessel’s “Time for Outrage”.
I thank you for your recommendation but I’ll pass.
Perhaps you’d be well served ignoring my posts if you don’t agree with them, my points are perfectly valid even though they don’t fit with the happy clapping majority who cheer lead here.
In my opinion of course.
Further confirmation, if indeed it were needed, about our local press coverage (or lack thereof) regarding the Marischal Square project – despite making headlines over the past few days in the ‘Scotland’ section of the BBC website, & being mentioned on ‘Reporting Scotland’, not a peep on the Evening Express website (which unlike the P&J does offer the option to comment) or on the STV ‘local news’ programme to date.
I agree Carolyn, in the past we could always rely on the vocal minority groups such as the Aberdeen voice to make a fuss but it appears no one wants to know about this development. Such a pity the likes of Mr Trump had not invested in it as we’d have had mass dissent in my opinion.
(we keep explaining that Aberdeen Voice is not a group; somehow it’s just not registering.)
I suspect Suzanne, that Bill is so eager to read your column the second it becomes available, and so quick to click on it, that he misses that little piece of info which has been a feature of our front page for just over four and a half years.
So for Bill’s benefit, and for anyone else who may have missed it ….
“Aberdeen Voice is a weekly independent online news and information source. It promotes Citizen Journalism in Aberdeen and the North East and is not affiliated to any Political Party or the interests of any private company, lobby or third party organisation. Its focus is to give a voice to the general public in the North East and to promote inclusion in affairs affecting the region.”
William Yunnie was my gg grandfather, born 1841 died 16th March, 1888, of a heart attack. He died in the school house. My great grandfather, Alexander Yunnie, was born in 1868 so he probably was a pupil there when the school opened. Alexander was a mariner and settled in Australia.
I hadn’t noticed the late flurry of activity here so will try to keep it brief.
Bill,
I don’t really get the “left wing” or “right wing” thing. I just try to form a reasonably informed and objective opinion and am usually not slow to voice it.
I am against the Marischal Square development. It is a disgraceful dereliction of duty on the part of Aberdeen City Council IMO. That I was more vocal in my protests about the Trump and UTG developments was not a result of being against “rich” people but was a reaction to what was, in my opinion, a blatantly dishonest and corrupt campaign run by the Scottish Government, Aberdeen City and Aberdeenshire Councils, local businessmen, influential and mysoginistic quangos and the local media, to name but a few.
I considered the campaign to be not only one – sided, dishonest and corrupt, but that it included a level of bullying, intimidation, and self – interest which rendered it unacceptable. I don’t like being lied to and I don’t like bullies.
Hope this helps you Bill.
This sparked me to do some googling on Islam. I couldnt understand why these people had to be killed in Paris last week, I had to find reasoning.
Its not just an isolated incident tho` iis it? Remember the people in Pakistan who where all killed at school, bombing, burning and shooting unarmed children, teachers, victims, the stuff happening in north africa with again similar sights – and these acts against fellow Muslim`s. 2 North Africans thinking it would be a good idea to run over a man in combat trousers and then chop off his head in front of a crowd? Also I hear ISIS are throwing Gay men off cliffs
I need to bring up some ugly heads, nobody will like, but her goes.
It seems there is a cultural tendancy within Islam for a man to marry his brothers daughter. I wont use the laymans term, but supposedly after 5 mins googling this accounts for just under 50% of the Muslim community in the UK. Also Muslims account for 3% of births in the UK, but account for 30% of all birth defects.
Now, if this is true. If you can imagine somewhere like North africa where almost all are Muslim and there is as much as 80% of marriages as described above and there is no NHS to care from them?
If this is true, somebody is giving them guns? 🙁
I think maybe the likes of George bush and Tony Blair havent done anything to help, But I think Muslim culture is the problem here. I dont see it as a race issue or a religious issue, but a cultural one. The religion is somewhat invalidated by the culture. (NLP?)
And dont get me started on FGM, but thats not just Islam, but again, still a cultural issue I cannot accept.
I would dearly love peoples thoughts good or bad. I dont see myself as a racist. I remember skinheads from the 70`s beating up Black ppl on the streets and demanding they go home from whence they came. for me this is a racist
But these days it seems the Police are scared to protect children in Parts of north England incase they are accused of being one.
We rightly welcome allcomers to our country, but some of them are just downright ugly.
It also annoys me that everytime these bad people strike, our goverments capitalise on the situation and bring in more laws to infringe on our privacy
The Shoe bomber was treated for a mental illness, is this a clue?
Hope nobody offended. I might be wrong. I hope i am
Three SNP articles in a row in this weeks AV without any balancing pieces from other political views. I know AV publishes everything but this policy is now very obviously being exploited and makes the Voice appear highly partisan, especially today.
I completely agree Mike and whilst AV can hardly be held responsible for the apparent unwillingness of other political parties to submit articles, I feel that the right to submit such propaganda should be accompanied by a responsibility to respond to legitimate challenge, as is customary on such public forums.
1-2-3 SNP… Did a double-take there, I thought for a moment I was on the SNP website. But no, it’s the Aberdeen Voice.
Has Alex Salmond no shame? This is the man who, in my view, intentionally misled the Scottish Parliament, the BBC and the people of Scotland by lying about EU advice and then using public money to cover up his deceit. This is the man who, allegedly, instructed civil servants to block the release of information explaining what he spent the missing £54,000 of public money on during a short stay in a Chicago hotel. This is the man who, in my view, intentionally misled the Scottish people by instructing public servants to produce a White Paper, based on a fictional minimum oil price of $113 per barrel, and declared that the result of the independence campaign would be accepted unequivocally as an expression of the “sovereign will” of the people of Scotland and then changed his mind when he lost. This is the man who held private meetings with a foreign billionaire, by the name of Donald Trump, days before an unprecedented decision was taken by his government to “call in” an application for a private development on behalf of Mr Trump, a move which would lead to the overturning of a democratic decision by local government and the circumvention of established legal and democratic procedure and process, the building of a private development on a unique piece of land which had the highest possible level of legal protection, the flagrant abuse of the rights of those living close to the development and the catastrophic failure of the resort to bring the jobs and tourism Mr Salmond himself had promise would result.
Mr Salmond is, in my view, by far the most dishonest and unscrupulous politician to have “graced” the British political stage in recent years and it is, in my opinion, rank hypocrisy for him to complain about the withholding of information. or to suggest the majority of MP’s are not “decent” hopefull the voters in the Gordon constituency will be sensible enough to thwart Mr Salmond in his quest to insult our intelligence from Westminster instead of or perhaps as well as Holyrood.
Having spent three years as part of a campaign telling us that any prospect of an oil price collapse was mere “scaremongering” inspired by the Westminster establishment, the SNP MP tells us that we need the Westminster establishment to help us out now that the scaremongering has become a reality. Ms Whiteford, in my view, appears to validate the opinion of her boss who suggests there are very few “decent” MP’s at Westminster.
Well, Mike – as always the “other political views” can post to AV if they can be bothered. Also, Bruce Wood has taken the time to respond to the piece.
So incensed am I by this article, that I can’t resist continuing my response. Alex Salmond, in this piece, accuses all MP’s of all parties “with very few honourable exceptions” of deliberately delaying the publication of the Chilcot Report, for their own political ends, and even accuses Lord Chilcot himself of being complicit in causing this undue delay.
This is an independent inquiry, chaired by an impartial and independent individual who is universally considered to be completely above reproach. The reasons for the delay, as has been explained by Chilcot himself, have nothing to do with political motives and indeed any effort by politicians to expedite the publication might even be interpreted as an attempt to engage in the kind of political interference which would compromise the independence and integrity of the inquiry.
This barrage of criticism by Salmond, aimed at anyone and everyone except the SNP, is a disgraceful example of political opportunism,cynicism and hypocrisy in my opinion. Wouldn’t it be great indeed if we could have such independent inquiries in Salmond’s Scotland, where events such as those already mentioned in my initial response and the arrest and detention of journalists, for the crime of investigating private developments, including the role of the First Minister, could be properly scrutinised rather than, for example, asking the police, now a state police force directly accountable only to the Scottish Government, to investigate themselves behind closed doors.
Ann-Marie surely has a point. In fact several. If you ignore the fact that she is writing from a partisan viewpoint and look at her bosses claim that “there are a few decent MPs left at Westminster” then what is there to disagree about?
I particularly like the statement “Mr Salmond also said the “Maxwellisation” process, which allows individuals due to be criticised in an official report to see the criticism and respond prior to publication, had become a “device for procrastination”.
I really wish I had said that.
So Duncan, if there is little to disagree about, then perhaps you or Ann -Marie or even the great Salmond himself can provide some substance to these accusations.. For example, which MP’s or participants in the inquiry are deliberately holding up publication of the report. Which politicians or participants has Chilcot “allowed” to block, tackle and delay. Is it all of them or some of them, George W Bush, a good old fashioned world conspiracy led by Zionist rogues, or are you in a position to name one single individual who is holding up publication and provide evidence for such a claim. If, like Mr Salmond, you are unable to do so, then I would suggest your comments might be based on a combination of prejudice and politics rather than an objective appraisal.
Why you would ever imagine that the likes of me could name names Bruce is beyond my comprehension. As for Zionist rogues, I wonder what you mean.
Hi Duncan,
You support unsubstantiated claims that politicians have sought to delay the publication of a report and express your overt admiration for someone, on the basis of a statement which claims that individuals, “due to be criticised” in an as yet unpublished report, have used their right to view and respond to the report prior to publication, as a vehicle for delay.
In expressing such support, one assumes you might just have some semblance of evidence to substantiate your claims and that you might indeed have specific individuals in mind. Otherwise, it might be assumed that your support and agreement with Mr Salmond is based on nothing more than prejudice. Your response would, in my view, appear to confirm the latter.
With regard to “Zionist rogues” I use this term because, sooner or later, those who indulge, as Mr Salmond and yourself appear to do, in extremely imaginative and, in my opinion, crackpot conspiracy theories, these theories invariably end up pointing in the direction of “Zionists” “Jews” or the “Israelis” often via the CIA, FBI or some similar organisation. I’m sure you’re aware of people who suggest that there was a Westminster led world conspiracy to deny independence to the gallant Scots and that it was the Israelis who destroyed the Twin Towers, you know the kind of thing.
Do you have any evidence to substantiate the claims made by Mr Salmond and supported by yourself or are you just another imaginative eccentric with a little too much time on your hands?
I’m out of the country at the moment and fortunately not tempted to sample the delights of the Bates/Salmond/ Trump triumvirate in the Press & Journal, so am indebted to Aberdeen Voice for keeping me up to date as I appear to be missing some riveting material.
It”s amazing how things work our sometimes. Here we have, for example, three amigos, who some seem to think cooperate too closely, and the appearance of what I consider to be blatantly misleading and clearly unsubstantiated SNP propaganda on my favourite local news site. Some of this propaganda has been submitted by one Ann Marie Parry, who is the Parliamentary Assistant to Alex Salmond and who used to be employed by the Press & Journal, where her boss would have been Damian Bates. Closer inspection even reveals that some articles, penned by Ms Parry during her employment at the Press & Journal, appear, to the casual observer, to be deliberately designed to give credit to Mr Salmond on local issues and now here she is working for him in an official and professional capacity.
Perhaps Ms Parry could become the Face of Aberdeen 2015 or Rear of Year or something important like that and go on to become an executive at a golf resort or something equally exciting? Just a thought!!!!
I think it’s great that the SNP want to particpate in the Aberdeen Voice and are having articles submitted. Other parties should follow suit. But on the subject of Alex Salmond and inquiries, i’m not sure the pot should be calling the kettle to publish inquiry results. David Milne, Menie Estate resident, mobilised thousands of eligible Scots to call for an inquiry to look at issues POST the planning approval for Trump’s Menie Links course, which saw our SSSI protection overruled by the development proposals Scottish Enterprise and Trump came up with. This inquiry would have had 7 governmental agencies forced to reveal relevant information as to how they conducted themselves. This would not least have covered the arrests of jounalists, the lack of any real environmental monitoring (what there was of it was, IMO, a complete farce), and more. Alex Salmond’s government decided that the way forward was to ask the departments involved whether they thought an inquiry was a good idea and whether it was needed. Surprisingly, all the departments asked said that an inquiry was not needed – and that was that. Perhaps we should in future ask someone caught red handed in the middle of a crime whether or not they think a trial is needed? But do keep sending the articles in. I think it’s great that Salmond and his operatives have embraced media careers; good luck to Alex with his Press & Journal column (though I suspect luck and jouranlism won’t be greatly required). Alex – you are still awaited by your constiuents at Menie – do make that call.
Indeed it is the rank hypocrisy which is the most galling thing about this attack. Salmond’s decision to ask those, whose reputations would have been at stake, to decide whether or not there should be an investigation, is in sharp contrast to the public inquiries and robust committee interrogations at Westminster.
Perhaps Mr Salmond should look closer to home when talking of dishonourable politicians?
On a personal note: I was one of the many objectors who wrote to the City Council about the absurdity of the Muse scheme last year. They offered me a 5 minute window to speak to the full council – and dozens of others were offered the same chance. This was then increased to a possible 10 minutes. When I was trying to decide if I could get another day off of my work to attend the (undoubtedly) full day hearing, I discussed the matter with an official at the council. Without getting anyone into any trouble – we discussed the matter and they, like me, were of the opinion that addressing the council would have been a waste of time – as the matter had already been finalised. That’s how the mainstream media presented it; that’s how councillors were presenting it. I doubt a 10 minute talk from me would have stopped the development. However, if I knew there was even a slight chance, and that I could have gone on the city’s records as objecting to a destructive scheme that had not yet been set in stone, I would have done so. I am not happy, to say the least.
Great read. TV Sm!th is one of the punk greats.
Glad you liked. And I agree about Smith.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lynch+mob
lynch mob – a mob that kills a person for some presumed offense without legal authority
He seems remarkably well for someone “Having been lynched by the mob”
Well done for all your help in winning Aberdeen the carbuncle award, the majority that voted for UTG to be raised are all delighted.
Seals are quite able to take care of themselves. As for “ignorant walkers”, I am unsure what you mean.
Duncan your expertise is clearly needed by animal welfare and government agencies round the world, here is a link to some 300K+ sites that think seals should not be disturbed by people https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=seal%2C+and+disturbed%2C+and+hauled+out+and+people . To ignore is to pay no attention to. If someone tells you that you actions are going to disturb wildlife, but you choose not to heed that advice, you are being ignorant. Happy to have helped you understand this piece.
I am familiar Suzanne with the issues involved. I have visited the site on many occasions. As for your comment:
“Duncan your expertise is clearly needed by animal welfare and government agencies round the world, here is a link to some 300K+ sites that think seals should not be disturbed by people https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=seal%2C+and+disturbed%2C+and+hauled+out+and+people . To ignore is to pay no attention to. If someone tells you that you actions are going to disturb wildlife, but you choose not to heed that advice, you are being ignorant.” I am bemused.
What exactly do you mean?
Looking at Duncan’s “informed” comments it’s obvious that educating the public at Newburgh beach is required. Simple “graphics” type signs rather than an instruction. People like to think they are making A decision rather than being instructed what to do. Although you will still get people who know best.
Is fencing an option?
I agree with them, our City centre is a shambles, the referendum result should never have been ignored, the CGP would have been the perfect start to regenerating our City centre, instead we’re left with a dank hole in the ground that resembles a plowed park.
Sort it out Aberdeen council, go back to Sir Ian on your knees and apologise for your mistake, let the will of the people happen.
I seem to recall you mentioning, some time ago, that “Bill Stephens” is not your real name. Whilst the initials you choose appear to be entirely appropriate, would it be impolite of me to ask if you are Damian Bates?
Strange that the responders appear to almost all have green policies, where was the request publicised? I never saw it at all.
Instead of worrying about a bunch of seals and trying to shame some innocent people simply walking on the beach. Why not concentrate on shaming the farmers who mostly ignore the NVZ regulations and continue to spread muck onto fields during the closed season, the run of will poison the waters of the Ythan estuary causing far more harm to this nationally important habitat!!
Even one of the dogy links at the bottom of the Aberdeen voice web site shows greater cruelty to that poor lizard just to get clicks and a laugh!!
Seals swim around harbors etc where there is far more disturbance…..and to some seals are vermin?
I’ll leave it to others to explain why they are ‘worrying about a bunch of seals’ – but people who are told their actions are disturbing wildlife are not to me ‘innocent’. you make an excellent point about the pollution: are you willing / able to write such a piece? It would be most welcome. However – I’m at a loss about ‘dodgy links’ – AV’s website doesn’t have any advertising on it – something I’m personally very happy about. (See the ‘about’ section for more info). If you are willing to send a screen shot of the ‘dodgy links’ – I’ll be more than happy to look into this.
The “link” was in the “You may also like:” section showing a lizard being held in a stream of water from a tap and the poor thing was trying to climb up the water, it seems to have been taken done now… I agree with other comments, re seals being dangerous and for their own safety people should keep clear. I will consider your request for an article on the almost blatant disregard to the Aberdeenshire NVZ regs…
Seals are fairly hardy creatures and will not be fazed by a few walkers on the beach…
hello – I’m waiting for someone more technical minded to look into why you get a ‘you may also like’ section – could it be your browser or where you log in from? Whether I’m travelling/home/otherwise – when I go to https://www.aberdeenvoice.com and link to the articles, I see no links to stories/ads/ anything that is not on AV. We don’t take ads; we don’t link to pages; we’re funded by donations alone. Will get back as soon as possible. Please do write that article. On a related note, some years back I seem to recall a Stewart Milne related company accidentally polluted some NE waters; I never did find out what the outcome was for the environment or if the law got involved. Will try and research. I look forward to your article in due course. But as to the seals – I go along with the widespread view that they are often exhausted and are trying to rest when hauling out – and that like all wildlife, keeping a distance is sensible and respectful.
Dear John – thank you for bringing this to our attention. Aberdeen Voice’s technical people looked into it and discovered that ‘shareaholic’, a system we use, had changed their service – without any notice or consultation – and started linking AV to advertising and other stories. I’m not the only person contributing to AV to be very unhappy at this development; it will be stopped. But back to the seals – seals haul out often out of exhaustion; scaring them back into the water if exhausted doesn’t do them any good. See also the link I posted in response to Duncan Harley; many wildlife experts agree: stay away from hauled out seals.
John, I wish to add my thanks to you for pointing out the link on our site. Like Suzanne, I was unaware that we were being linked to pages we were not responsible for posting.
I am assured that the issue has now been sorted out, and such links will no longer appear on our pages. We don’t always have control over how updated elements of the site will behave, and where there may be potential problems, these do not always come to light immediately.
However, with your help, and being alert to the issue, we will keep a close eye and do whatever we can, as soon as we can, to prevent such links reappearing.
– Fred Wilkinson – Editor.
The things you may like section is driven by your own preferences based on sites you have already visited!
Thanks Vic. Aberdeen Voice should not have been linked to it or any other kind of advertising/add-on at all though.
I am an Aberdeen exile living in Glasgow these last 20 years. I visit Aberdeen regularly and on every visit I usually find an area/building and I find myself saying “they haven’t done that have they?”. But they have.
The city centre is indeed a disaster IMO. What is Union Square all about, ditto the St Nicholas Centre? As for Union Street, this once interesting thoroughfare / shopping street is now best avoided.
Steve Harris is right ““Aberdeen is a stunning city with beautiful parks and gardens, a beach that runs for miles right into the city centre and some stunning architecture.” That’s because they city fathers have not yet managed to completely spoil these so far. I suspect its just a matter of time however. The newer developments at the beach are horrid. The sports centre (Transition Extreme Sports) is possibly the most ugly building in the world set in a location where it is impossible to hide it. Very unfortunately it is not alone.
I love Aberdeen, its a great city, but folks, please ask the city fathers to respect its integrity. Not everything has to be about making a short-term buck.
Well said Bob. Absolutely spot on!
ignorant
ˈɪɡn(ə)r(ə)nt/
adjective
Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
Describing the walkers as ignorant was at best giving them the benefit of doubt. In reality they are behaving deliberately and recklessly towards the wildlife in the area. There is no justification for it and they are showing no respect or appreciation for our local environment.
Once someone gets a nasty bite or their dog mauled they will soon get the message. seals will bite humans who get too close, they have a very powerfull bite and can quite easily bite someones hand off with a quick snap. i think it will just be a matter of time before a kid or pet dog gets seriously hurt or even killed by a seal at the ythan estuary.
It should also be noted that seals can be dangerous and a bite from them could lead to very severe infections. I would definately keep my distance.
One has to laugh at the incessant barrage of SNP propaganda, much of which would, in my opinion, make them a laughing stock, were it not for the ideologically obsessed hordes who appear to hang on their every word.
The new leader of the SNP – Ms Sturgeon, says she intends to lead a government which is “open, listening and available” just as her Finance Minister bypasses the national negotiating body for local councils, to issue a direct threat that any councils, who cannot recruit sufficient teachers, will face stringent financial penalties as a consequence and that there can be no negotiation on this self – defeating strategy.
Of course, it seems like only yesterday that the SNP claimed to have legal advice on EU membership, in the event of independence, but claimed that to publish their advice would be in contravention of parliamentary regulations. When they were ordered, by the courts, to publish this advice, they used public money to fight this ruling, only to eventually concede defeat and admit that, not only did they not have the advice they had claimed could not be published, but that they had never even sought such advice. In other words, they had lied.
Then again, there is the example of Mr Alex Salmond refusing to account for £54,000 of public money, claimed by himself during a short stay in an exclusive Chicago hotel. When an FOI request was submitted, it was claimed that to disclose the nature of this secret, could compromise his personal security. Mr Salmond, when challenged in Parliament, infamously described the sum as a mere “frippery”.
One might suspect that Ms Sturgeon’s idea of being “open, listening and available” may be slightly different to that of most reasonable people.
I believe the dog walkers are showing great awareness of the seals. They have the dog on a lead they are approaching in full view and giving the seals a wide birth, for the contributor of the article to decide it was too close is a matter of opinion, the seals will decide and as there is no mention of a stamped into the sea, so the space given must have been acceptable to the seals. You can only judge by the photo but the seals in the foreground look relaxed and many seal colonies have become accustomed to human presence.
Possibly an apology to the dog walkers is required by AV
Indeed. I agree.
There are two sentences relating to the dog walkers: “Last picture is a couple walking their dog on the other side.
Thankfully the dog was on a lead and they did give the seals a wide berth, but still a little close for comfort for us watching.” As
the people who observed them are offering a legitimate opinion, and the intent is to raise awareness, I for one don’t see any need for AV to apologise for these sentences. For me there is no doubt that the potential of the walkers/dog disturbing the seals existed. I think the photo illustrates clearly how close they were to the seals – surely there is no need to be that near.
Clearly the dog walkers are not ignorent or the dog would not be on the lead, they are also hugging the dune line giving as much space as possible. Who’s to say that if the seals had moved these two would of stopped and retreated. They should be held up as an example of how to behave around seals. Remember this area is not a protected seal haul out site and there are no restrictions to the public, proper behaviour should be encouraged and the photo suggests they did, yet your artical implys otherwise.
Won’t somebody please think of the seals!!! hahaha
Absurd article IMO, if the seals are not happy they’ll just swim somewhere else. Won’t be a problem for long anyway as the windfarm will either kill them or they’ll avoid the area IMO.
You don’t appear to be very happy Bill, perhaps you should follow the example of the seals?
There can be no doubt that anyone, particularly dog – walkers, must educate themselves if they intend to engage in recreational activities, in close proximity to the natural habitat of wildlife.
As a dog lover/walker, I had to learn some basic rules some years ago, in order to take advantage of the great outdoors, with my dog, and to do so without upset to the wildlife and/or local gamekeepers. I had no hesitation in volunteering my ignorance, when seeking information, and learned much from those who make their living in the countryside and who have a lifetime of knowledge.
To have no knowledge of something is to be “ignorant” of the subject and I really can’t understand why so many appear to be upset by this term. Furthermore, to willfully ignore signs, in such circumstances, is both ignorant and irresponsible, in a more general sense.
Bruce I agree with you there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners and ramblers going about. What in the photo even remotely suggests that the dog owners are being ignorant or irresponsible? The photo of this couple should never of been posted in this story as you’ll now doubt know wild animals have a fight or flight reflex for the witness to say that they were too close to the seals without them fleeing into the sea clearly suggest that they weren’t. A responsible couple out walking their dog has been vilified in this article.
You ask ‘what in the photo even remotely suggests that the dog owners are being ignorant or irresponsible?’ Answer – their proximity to the seals. There is absolutely no reason or need to be walking a dog close to the animals. Believe it or not, but dogs have on occasion disobeyed their owners, lead or no lead, and wildlife has been injured and killed. You personally are happy with the distance between the seals and the dog/people – the people who were there on the day were not. This is a difference of opinion – and as they were there and you were not, there is nothing wrong with the way the matter is covered. Villified? Again – look at the two sentences, and please advise what in the article is ‘villifiying’ them. You seem rather obsessed by these two sentences; do you know the people by any chance? I can’t help but wonder.
Suzanne to answer your questions no I don’t know them, I wish I did as I’d certainly be making them aware of your comments. You state they are too close from a photo taken with a long lens where the distance is misleading. You have vilified because you have a photo in an article with the title ignorant walkers. You’re obviously not reading my points so here it is again THE SEALS DIDN’T MOVE SO THEY COULDN’T OF BEEN TOO CLOSE. There is no matter of opinion if the seals move too close they don’t not too close it couldn’t be any more black or white. You make a childish reply to Duncan about his expertise maybe you should offer your services to biologists as clearly you think animals after thousands of years of evolution have been misjudging safe distances. I’m asking the more educated and unbiased editors of AV to remove the photo and all mention of the dog walkers or point out that they are an example of how to you use this stretch of beach responsibly.
I am glad you are so concerned for the dog walkers and for Duncan. I guess we will agree to differ. There is definitely something for dog walkers to learn from the two sentences you are so IMO overly-concerned with – and that is leave seals a respectful distance. Seals and other wildlife are not respected by all walkers and dog walkers. A fawn was ripped to pieces two years ago at Crathes by a dog that was assumed by the owners to be under their control. Seals cannot look after themselves; they are being attacked, shot and exhausted seals forced back into the water by walkers disturbing them – well meaning or not. If you can’t admit this is the case, we shall continue to disagree.
Duncan made a sweeping, and obviously false, claim that ‘seals can look after themselves.’ This is not my opinion; it is backed up by wildlife experts, animal welfare charities, court cases about people who have killed seal pups, and so on. I gave him a link showing a host of such information disproving his claim, explaining that hauled-out seals need to be left in peace. I don’t think there is any further mileage in me continuing to re-state the obvious. But thank you for adding to the debate; it helps draw attention to the very real problem of people disturbing wildlife and in this case potentially disturbing seals. One of my many roles is as a safety rep: the basic principle of avoiding any sort of problem or accident is to take all steps to minimise risk. That’s what the dog walkers should have done – in my opinion.
Felt VisitAberdeen Mannie’s bit was definitely sub-stunning The phrase ‘fine merchant houses’ seems to be borrowed from Edinboro, the ‘sunken Victorian Garden’ – (wherezat?) – is possibly a phrase being used these days by those afraid to say Union Terrace Gardens in case SIW comes along and clobbers them. Archibald Simpson was not responsible for the entire Marischal College as is indicated, only the inner quad, delightful though that is, why can’t the VA Mannie give His Majesty’s Theatre its name in full, why doesn’t he mention OA and the ongoing work at Rubislaw Quarry? Why doesn’t he tell us what the North of Scotland Bank is nowadays? Takes me back to the dire dark days of PR man Jack Nichol (probably not spelt correctly).
If anyone’s been following the news of late, Chilcot has explained his difficulties in conducting and concluding this inquiry, including the difficulty of obtaining correspondence between Blair and Bush. I for one would hate to see Chilcot rush his conclusions – which surely must, IMO, damn Blair’s actions. I trust everyone is now clear that (unlike I fear many other inquiries) Chilcot is trying to do a thorough job which should not be rushed.
Sadly we witnessed at least 30 people within 5-10 yards of the seals today. Beautiful day at the estuary but not respect the colony and watch at a distance? Why not watch them like most people do, from the other side or at least from the safe distance of the dunes. It almost looked like a coach tour. Little children, families, dogs and photographers with massive lenses. One man with camera in hand walked right down to them causing about 20 resting seals to dive into the water, obviously frightened at his rapid approach. He then proceeded to film them swimming away! If they truly believe they are causing the seals no harm, I could almost understand the desire to get close as they are beautiful creatures. But, really why not leave them alone and watch at a distance like others do?
People need to watch the seals from a distance, they do bite and carry bacteria that we need special antibiotics to clear. Plus the distress caused for the animals themselves is aweful, its still pupping season for greys so interfereing may cause pups to be abandoned before they should be. Also if you see a seal or cetacean in distress or wounded you can also call British Divers Marine Life Rescue (BDMLR) on HOTLINE: 01825 765546 during office hours. 07787 433412 out of office hours. Thank You.
Stop investing in wind farms as this technology is a drain on the public finance £1.8 billion has been paid to operators since May 2007 in the form of a subsidy known as the Renewable Obligation. National Grid has paid out almost £80 million to wind farm operators in Scotland since 2010 to shut down their turbines and keep them idle. Operators are paid by the government to build them and paid by the national grid to keep them shut down win win for the operator lose lose for the bill payer.
http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views/scotland/salmond-s-great-wind-farm-rip-off-1.271296
Bill – what is “strange” about respondents favouring the policies above?
Also, are any of Councillors Johnston or Ford your local Councillor? If not, then that may be why you did not see the request publicised.
You forget to mention the salmon fishing season started on the 11th ?
Perhaps you’re on the wrong thread? There are a few fishing/seal related articles of mine. For the avoidance of doubt; isn’t one of them. But as you bring the subject up, I’ll be interested to see how the salmon population is doing this year, and this may interest you further. http://news.stv.tv/tayside/308394-major-salmon-netting-company-usan-admits-flouting-fishing-laws/
Any further salmon/seal comments? Choose the right article to post them on. Tally Ho!
I read this enthralling piece with mounting excitement. Could this possibly be the dullest prose ever written in the Aberdeen Voice? Yes! Yes! Yes!
Council tax should be scrapped altogether and the poll tax reintroduced, it was a much fairer system where everyone pays the same for local services such as schools, rubbish collection, roads and street lighting. Under the council tax system a couple living in a band E house pays £2005.96 in Aberdeen City and £1,896.71 in the Shire a family of 4 adults in a band A house are paying £1094.16 in the city and £1,034.57 in the shire. Everyone in full time employment should pay a community charge to pay for local services.
In a week when SNP parliamentary candidates have been exposed for fantasising about “sticking the nut” on political opponents and SNP councillors have resigned, amidst allegations of the leadership tampering with and refusing to publish details of votes cast to select candidates for the Westminster election, one might have expected Anne – Marie Parry and Alex Salmond to do a little better than this.
In attempting to enable Salmond to bask in the reflected glory of a few local businesses winning retail awards, Anne – Marie continues her role, embarked upon as an employee of Salmond’s chum Damian at the Press & Journal, in seeking to portray Mr Salmond as some sort of superhero of the Garioch. I seem to recall her then seeking to give Mr Salmond full credit for the erection of a waiting room at Inverurie Railway Station. Now she and Salmond appear to simply look for local good news and then try to be part of it by writing letters, making meaningful gestures and foisting it upon readers of Aberdeen Voice.
Notwithstanding the dubious nature of such claims, is it not time Ms Parry took her role more seriously and started trying to explain why Mr Salmond sought, in my view, to con the nation with mythical tales of EU advice, currency union and oil prices which would never ever, no matter what anyone said, fall below $113 per barrel? She might even convince him to make a speech on when we can expect to see the thousands of jobs he promised would be created, and the runway extension which would be required to deal with all those tourists flocking to his friend’s golf course at Menie?
Then again, perhaps she is wise to stick to the local shoppies.
I pay £240 a Month, a scandal it’s so high in the first place, if the councils were properly ran they wouldn’t have a shortfall.
Friday Bingo.
TRUMP – CHECK
MALONE – CHECK
ABERDEEN JOURNALS – CHECK
WOOD – 🙁
Must improve, I nearly had a full house.
i was much thinking the same bill, thats why i mentioned salmon lol
You and Bill were thinking?
I suppose they have a point; those figures do come up quite a bit in my column. My column which covers events in the local news, which the people in question all featured in this past week (per the links supplied). Somehow this little clip comes to mind, of the lady disappointed at Fawlty Towers to see a view of Torquay from her B&B window in Torquay… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcliR8kAbzc Really, I should either refund their subscription charges to this free sheet, or stop forcing them to read it.
Saturday Bingo:
Bill Stephens complaining to AV – CHECK
House! Where do I collect my prize?
Cumbernauld and East Kilbride certainly should certainly qualify but Leven town centre has merit if only for the Carlow Hall. As a former Hamiltonian I cannot comment much on NE buildings except to say that, in common with most of Aberdeenshire, Aberdeen has a rich architectural heritage. Nuff said.
Again the police jumping to conclusions and making a drama out of nothing personally i think they watch to many movies and forget this is Scotland lol ive had police with search warrant and can imagine the aftermath as they don’t care when their rummaging threw your possessions!!?
I agree that if there is a definite reason, the police should search. The problem is that due process isn’t being followed in so many cases. Have you seen the statistics on how many completely innocent children are being stopped and searched? It’s unacceptable. Here is a link – they want even more powers over children who they can already stop and demand a ‘voluntary’ search from (how many children know their rights??) – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31460120
Seems VW wasn’t required to be physically present here in Aberdeen – merely to contribute from Belfast via a video link, but was still too busy doing whatever it is she does.
Yes, the story is that she had to meet the Permanent Secretary. Obviously she couldn’t have rescheduled the PS – or told him she was due at a hearing. Obviously the people running the hearing couldn’t have either rescheduled or insisted she attend. There is one flight to and one flight from Aberdeen every day, just for the record. So – the people throwing the hearing either were stood up at the last minute – or they knew she was not coming and they just carried on any way – and IMO allowed the thing to be postponed. I have to arrange meetings as part of my work with people coming from around the world at times, some very high profile. If I arranged a meeting, got everyone together and then simply said ‘so and so can’t make it’ without rescheduling or telling people in advance, I’d likely be sacked for incompetence. But it doesn’t work that way in government, does it.
It is clear that Steve Harris and other city officials do not understand why Aberdeen was given this well deserved title. Steve Harris talks about future but he lives in the past. All he can talk about is the historical architecture, clearly something what ACC could not take any prizing for – in fact they can’t even preserve this architecture- it is dirty and crumbling- apart of course from the ACC headquarters. Steve Harris mentioned Aberdeen University library….again, something what was initiated and build by independent institution so ACC can’t get any scores for that neither and even if yes then it is only one modern building which is worth looking at.
Having brought the NHS in Scotland to crisis point, the SNP are now seeking plaudits for trying to sort out the unholy mess they created. This is not particularly surprising but, nonetheless, might be considered deceitful.
The elderly are currently occupying beds, due to the lack of investment in social care, leading to longer and longer waiting lists, whilst the SNP sit back complacently and again, in my view, seek to con the electorate with their phoney statistics and patronising drivel.
Alex Salmond, in my opinion, ought to retire gracelessly from politics, to spend more time with his betting slips, rather than continue to sell us his unique brand of snake oil.
On the same day that SNP Health Secretary – Shona Robison apologises for “hundreds of cancelled operations” Alex Salmond tells us that “the SNP Government is committed to ensuring that this progress continues…”
I’m sure patients across Scotland will be grateful to Mr Salmond for such comforting words.
Short term gain as usual, while public transport gets worse, people living further from work, future congestion,pollution and industrialisation of our countryside, not everyone sees it as a good deal for the NE
or for the future
Couldn’t agree more John. This was an ideal opportunity to investigate radical ways of improving the North East transport infrastructure, including rail services to the west and north. The only guarantees that new roads bring are, as you say, more congestion, longer commuting times and more pollution.
This road is being built, not to ease congestion, but to provide a “development corridor” for the usual suspects to bless us with their beautiful housing and commercial developments.
Once again, Alex Salmond and Christian Allard make claims which, in my view, cannot be explained by mere ignorance and ineptitude and I therefore conclude that they are, once again, deliberately misleading the public for short – term political gain.
Thirded.
Aberdeen Voice is a weekly independent online news and information source. It promotes Citizen Journalism in Aberdeen and the North East. Its focus is to give a voice to the general public in the North East and to promote inclusion in affairs affecting the region.
What about this article is current or local? Why don’t you report on violent crime down 13% crimes of dishonesty down 8.5% continued encouragement of victims of sexual crimes and domestic abuse with detection rates at 98% for domestic abuse. Try reporting on the good work Scottish police are doing.
It would be nice to hear something positive on the local area from this author unfortunately I don’t think we will. However Aberdeen is only a very small city in an expansive globe, its not a prison and anyone can leave anytime they want to find their utopia.
Without wishing to be disrespectful Jim, I would suggest that the statistics you cite refer to reported crime, rather than actual crime, and, as most people are aware, many crimes simply go unreported, such is the lack of confidence in the police, or are so common that they are hardly considered to be crimes anymore. Furthermore, I would venture that, if you really do believe these statistics to be truly representative of real crime levels, then there is certainly no need for you to go looking for “utopia” as you must already be there.
I’m not quite sure what you would define as “local” but I would certainly consider the arrest of the named journalists, a few miles from Aberdeen, to be so and fail to understand the lack of a real public outcry at the unwarranted arrest and detention of journalists, whose lawful investigation included the involvement of a First Minister in the nefarious dealings of a foreign billionaire with links to organised crime. That the same ex First Minister went on to oversee the creation of a state Police Force, whose level of accountability is now openly being questioned in Parliament, the routine arming of that Police Force and the shameless appointment of politically sympathetic individuals to lead the quango, to whom the state police are at least notionally accountable, merely adds to my curiosity at the lack of interest, from the mainstream media, in what I consider to be the clearly questionable conduct of our politicians and police.
There is no doubt that Aberdeen Voice, and the author of this article in particular, do a fine job in providing comment which is not, unlike more widely read local news publications, motivated by political or commercial expediency.
So people just arnt reporting breaking, asults, antisocial distubenceses, or car thefts because they have no faith in the police, I wonder how the claim insurance without a crime stopper number. To suggest it’s due to people simply not reporting crime is like suggesting that fires in grampian are not due to the good work that the fire service do in the cummnity educting the public. But people just don’t report fires anymore.
On the trump story local yes current no 4 years ago and in almost every article she writes about. Walter never arrested escorted from the conference by security not police stopped the following day by police to check his credentials for 15 minutes. An ex liberal party member thrown out for being a radical conspiracy theory isn’t is almost arrested 6 times (how do you almost get aressted) while promoting his latest book.
In an article named we need to talk about the police we have 3 incidents over a 10 year period , I’d say that’s a good job if other sectors had a record like that they’d be congratulated.
This is my utopia born here raised here worked all over the world but always return here. Like I said there is no locked gate at the bridge of Dee, if you don’t like Aberdeen feel free to leave because plenty think we’re doing fine.
Jim’s raised a few issues I’m happy to comment on – accuracy of the police’s stats (which has been rubbished by the government), arrests (I used 3 case studies; I could have had dozens), and whether or not this is utopia.
I am happy Jim has found his Utopia; indeed I love Aberdeen city and Shire for many reasons – but certainly not at the expense of losing my critical faculties. There are many things to fight for to stop the many problems we have. For the purpose of the series of articles about the police, we have a national problem with the police. I am far from alone in thinking so.
In October 2014 a Commons select committee published a report on the appalling quality of police statistical accuracy with the damning title “Caught Red Handed…” Here is an excerpt:-
“Measurement of crime is based on two main statistical sources: (i) the Crime Survey for
England and Wales (CSEW, formerly the British Crime Survey) and (ii) Police Recorded
Crime (PRC). The CSEW and PRC provide strong evidence that the overall volume of
crime has been falling. However, there is an accumulation of substantial and credible
evidence indicating that the PRC data do not represent a full and accurate account of crime
in England and Wales. Of most importance, we have strong evidence that PRC underrecords
crime, and therefore the rate of decrease in crime may be exaggerated, and this is
due to lax police compliance with the agreed national standard of victim-focussed crime
recording. As a result of PASC’s inquiry and the evidence we have exposed, the UK Statistics
Authority (UKSA) decided in January 2014 to strip PRC data of its designation as National
Statistics. We conclude that the Home Office, ONS and UKSA have been far too passive in
the face of concerns raised about PRC; they have repeatedly missed opportunities to ensure
the integrity and quality of PRC data.
“The cessation of regular external audit of police force crime recording in 2007 was a
mistake. We recommend the re-instatement of annual audits of crime recording practices.” http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmpubadm/760/760.pdf
That a select committee concluded police under report crime is enough vindication for me. I would have included it in the article – but in fact I thought it was well known and accepted that under reporting is the case. I’ve had people come to me with stories about how the police in Aberdeen turned them away from reporting crimes – theft and attempted theft. In the case of the attempted theft, the police said they wouldn’t be interested unless the item was actually stolen. Someone had tried to steal something; they were caught, chased and disappeared. The police had a description, had information on where the person might possibly be: they decided there was no action they needed to take.
This article only gave three examples; one to show how the Terrorism Act could be raised when clearly no terrorism of any kind was involved. The story of Baxter and Phinney show the police to be, in my opinion and the opinion of many I know, to be influenced by the rich and to interfere with legitimate journalism – in our own back yard. If this isn’t a worry, and the subsequent lack of any proper investigation or censure of the authorities involved, it should be. As to bringing in the beliefs and history of the man arrested where it transpires nothing criminal happened, we should be very worried the police are misusing – in my opinion – law to stifle dissent.
Back to crime statistics, there is a movement in the police to ask people to solve their own crimes – if you can believe it. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/04/police-telling-victims-solve-crimes-themselves – this is one of the means they have of keeping stats artificially low. That stats are lower than reality is not my opinion; it is a finding of the sub committee.
Perhaps Utopia is some place that is perfect in every regard where everyone’s rights are respected. If so, as fond as I am of the area, landscape (what’s left of it), and the people, this is not Utopia.
Jim a question. I write about Trump quite a bit (among dozens of other subjects). Do you also complain to the Press & Journal, which frequently features stories about Trump (always glowing)? Just wondering.
Again, with the greatest of respect Jim, if your stock response to any comment you deem to be negative, is to say, and I paraphrase “if you don’t like it why don’t you leave” then I wonder why you continue to read all of the articles penned on Aberdeen Voice.
I don’t believe there are any “locked gates” here are there?
Great stuff, Suzanne!
Well Bruce this paticular contributor consistently writes negative points about Aberdeenshire even when she’s writing a review on a band.why she felt it necessary to comment on the state of icy pavements and criticise the council in here review of altered sky I have no idea. It’s a shame because the reviews on this site are normally informitive but as soon as this writer goes of on a tangent about council, local press or trump in totally unrelated article, you have to ask why stay.
and yet here you are, Jim – staying on this article even though you seem not to like/agree with me. It’s as if you feel that adding your comments and contribution might change things to your liking. Perhaps we are not so different, you and I. Have already explained that unlike you, I see huge areas where city govt and institutions such as the local newspapers need to be reformed. If anyone reading this article is wondering what he means, I reviewed a great performance by Altered Sky. The attendance wasn’t as high as I thought it should be, and I wondered if the freezing temperatures and icy pavements kept some people at home (which believe it or not sometimes happens). That is the tangent being referred to. Tally ho!
It was a Wednesday. It was freezing – anyone who hadn’t wound up in casualty from falling over on our icy pavements (note to city council – can’t you do something about this?) were staying in and staying warm. I’m still perplexed as to why icy paths casualty and the council have anything to do with a review of a band. I do believe you don’t even know your doing it.
Jim: http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/local/icy-aberdeen-pavements-blamed-for-93-people-attending-a-e-in-one-day-1.798816
Perhaps now we can stick to comments relating to this article.
(For anyone who is interested in why a music review dared to delve into Aberdeen’s winter logistics, the band Altered Sky didn’t have as large an audience as they might have. I decided the awful weather might have been a major factor. The review continued: “The band was freezing as well. Furthermore, with a young demographic, perhaps midweek late wasn’t the best time to get a large audience. But audience size never should impact performance, and even if the crowd was smaller than I’d expected, we had a good set from the band.”)
It’s very sad Mike, man is his own worst enemy.
Everyone who lives in Aberdeen knows the pavements were icy, it’s the same every year. I still don’t think it was necessary to include it in a review. No other contributor to this site feels the need to digress from the main topic to have a snide dig at local council for the condition of the route they took to get there. Altered Sky may well have been a group that I would go see unfortunately I was turned off reading the full review when it turned into a political rant.
Back to the article, in a survey by the Sunday Post 56% of Scots believe that Scottish police should be allowed to continue the practice of stopping and searching people, without needing grounds for suspicion and with verbal consent. In the interest of impartiality 38% felt the service on offer had got worse since the 8 forces merged, while 15% thought there was an improvement 30% no change. There is evidence that the stop and search policy is working on reducing the knife crime that Scotland was plagued with a couple of years ago. There were 903 assaults involving blades in the period 2012-2013, compared with 1,439 the year before, a fall of 37 per cent. The rate is down 57 per cent since 2006-2007, when 2,138 knife attacks were recorded.
While human rights layers will argue against this policy, who stands up for the law abiding citizens whose life’s are ruined by the knife attacks that still happen. The vast majority of people in this country are more than happy to be searched by police a 5 minute inconvenience, but if they manage to stop one mother from burying a child then it was worth it.
You refer to the select committee report vindicating you it was on the police force in England and Wales. In Scotland the crime figures are sourced from two sources of crime statistics in, police recorded crime and the Scottish Crime and Justice Survey (SCJS). I don’t live in England or Wales and read the Aberdeen Voice because it claims to be local.
Since you want to write about the UK we’ll look at the anti-terrorism law, and Walter Wolfgang he was ejected from the conference and his pass confiscated by security, he tried to re-enter the next day without his pass he was stopped by the police when his name was flagged up and had to wait 15 minutes until the Labour party cleared the situation. What action do you want the police to take? His name was flagged as being evicted this was a party conference for a sitting government the highest security levels were in place for obvious reasons only 20 years earlier the Conservatives had their conference bombed by the IRA. The police followed the laws as set by government it was 15 minutes he wasn’t arrested he wasn’t shipped off to Guantanamo Bay.
This weekend we see 3 teenage girls groomed by terrorists, to leave their families and travel to a foreign country to fight. Who’s to say that they won’t return strap a bomb on and walk into a school/football stadium or concert? This happens in other countries and its only due to the secret services and policing policy’s in this country that it hasn’t happened here before oh wait it has happened here. There is a real threat to the liberties and safety of the citizens in this country but not from the police or government rather it’s from religious radicals.
You never questioned my opinion of the publicity seeking Donnachadh McCarthy who was in parliament square to promote his book. Let’s look at why the police have to now have strong presences at, in recent years peaceful protests have been hijacked by anarchists who have a completely different agenda to the march organizers this is not isolated to G8 summits, a protest march for against the changes to local authority pensions was hijacked tuition fee protest was hijacked and the occupy protests were also hijacked. The result is damages have run in to the millions, ultimately this cost is filtered down to the public whose insurance premiums have rocketed and the terror for local citizens going about their daily business. The police were vilified in England for allowing the riots of 2011 to quickly spiral out of control by using a softly softly approach. I guess they can’t do right for doing wrong.
Anthony Baxter the only local issue in the article in a local news site, I’m confused as to the article in one point it’s stated that the criminal charge was thrown out by the Crown office, but then you state that they were released with a caution. My understanding is that you may be offered a caution as an alternative to prosecution and if you accepted then this would count as a criminal conviction. Unless a conviction is a certainty they should never have accepted the caution and they would have had their day in court. Why did they accept the caution maybe you can ask them if there was an option to have a day in court and prove innocents surly this would of been the route to take.
I do not believe that my grandparents had any more civil rights than I have today, the fact they lived in much safer times after the WW2 than we do now. The police are there to protect the public and do so to the best of their limited resources in face of some of the most challenging times in history. With a starting salary of 23k who would even want to be a police officer with the risks that comes with the uniform, I take my hat off to every one of them for standing between me and the threats we see daily on TV and read in the press.
The solution to the problem is to stop having a world in which nations compete against other nations – we need a system of wealth redistribution between all countries to ensure that important habitat can be preserved worldwide on the basis of most important habitat first. We also need to understand that all resources should belong equally to all the world’s people and not just to the people sitting on the land where those resources happen to be found. It is selfishness that drives all the destruction, and the people where most of the damage is being done are the least to blame for that damage. The blame lies here and in other wealthy, lucky countries. We need to share out that luck until there is no luck left at all.
One wonders if Mr Salmond, who has already described Scotland as a “nation of drunks” and who is currently campaigning to prohibit Scottish football fans from enjoying the same rights as other UK and European citizens, in relation to alcohol, intends to pass emergency legislation to prevent alcohol consumption at golf events. Or could it possibly be that Mr Salmond thinks it is only working class Scots who constitute his “nation of drunks” whilst those middle – class model citizens, who share his love of golf, dodgy pullovers and “slacks” can easily be trusted to drink responsibly, refrain from beating up their spouses and to resist the temptation to drive whilst under the influence of alcohol.
Salmond’s Scotland seems to be one in which there is one law for the working class and another for his golf playing buddies. Regrettably, we still await the thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of tourists and flights from all over the world, which we were promised when Salmond helped out another of his rich fellow golfers.
Here’s an idea for Mr Allard. Why doesn’t he start explaining why our NHS is already in crisis, after eight years of an SNP government who recently reported a £444,000,000 underspend whilst our hospitals struggled to cope, instead of seeking to score party political points to further his democratically rejected ideological ambitions?
Indeed, whilst he is about it, he might like to explain why the present SNP First Minister is spending tens of millions of pounds every year, on an airport which nobody uses, not least because there are little or no flights, whilst our hard pressed citizens queue at food banks.
He might even like to explain why the SNP told us they had EU advice, then admitted this was a lie when instructed to publish the advice by the courts and why the ex SNP First Minister has refused to divulge exactly what he spent £54,000 of public funds on, during a short stay in a “luxury” Chicago hotel. After all, a man can surely only receive so many shoe -shines in a couple of days!
One wonders why Mr Allard is so keen to call for action from politicians elsewhere, whilst refusing to explain or accept responsibility for the actions of his own government ministers. After all, what do the SNP have to hide?
Was just looking up on this drunk thing, this may be one of those press things that is taken out of context. Not that exciting really. I`m guessing nobody you know drinks too much? next time your at a football match ask a nearby policeman on his views on football crowds, you never see the police playing cloud control at golf tournaments, they shouldnt even be at football matches, but it seems football fans cant behave themselves, so we are back to square one. btw I dont do football or golf, but I do drink regularly, but rarely get drunk 🙂
I`m guessing 100k for the new golf event is seen as an investment, might not pay back tomorrow, but if its a regular yearly thing, then it will bear fruit one day I spose.
Hi John,
I’m having difficulty understanding what your point is, in relation to my own comments, but will do my best to respond anyway.
One politician, and football fan, has suggested that alcohol might be served, in football stadiums, for a limited period prior to the matches and at half time. This would, as he quite rightly points out, be consistent with common practice in other parts of the UK and throughout Europe. The ex First Minister has responded by suggesting that Scottish football fans cannot be trusted to have a drink, in a football stadium, without transporting us back to a mythical dark age in which drink fuelled football fans engaged routinely in mutual jihad before going home to teach the wife a lesson she would never forget, or at least not until the next match. Mr Salmond has some form, in voicing his opinion that Scots are uniquely unable to control their appetite for alcohol, by infamously denouncing us as a “nation of drunks” but has never before suggested we are, as a race, uniquely unable to imbibe the merest sip of the devil’s brew, in a strictly controlled and highly supervised environment, without deciding our opponents are in possession of weapons of mass destruction, with which they are capable of destroying our home city by the end of the first half, and making an appropriate pre – emptive strike!
Mr Salmond, in his rush to party political posturing, forgets that, during his mythical dark age, alcohol was not served in any football stadium in Scotland and never has been. The abuse of alcohol, to which he refers, was a result of fans being permitted to bring copious quantities of alcohol into the stadiums, sometimes when already blind drunk, with which to aid their descent into their coma of choice. This practice, I should add, was peculiarly unique to the followers of only two of our football clubs and to Glasgow and the surrounding area on particular. No one is suggesting allowing this to recommence and there is no reason to believe that fans would suddenly change their routine, from drinking in welcoming hostelries before and after matches, or not drinking at all, to drinking heavily in cold unwelcoming stadiums with insufficient open air walls and fences to relieve themselves against, should the demand for the similarly insufficient, but regrettably less desirable, official toilet walls lead to gridlock.
With regard to Salmond and golf, the £100,000 may, or may not, be a sound investment but his scandalous depiction of the majority of football fans contrasts sharply with his fondness for, some might say sycophantic drooling over, rich golfers and even richer foreign billionaires, with a penchant for the vulgar and alleged links to organised crime. That Mr Salmond has, in my view, gone as far as to lie, collude, conspire and sell out his own constituents, to further the interests of such golfing tycoons, not to mention his litany of lies during the referendum campaign, leads me to view him as a corrupt, immoral and unprincipled crook, who is unfit for public office and who should be condemned and criticised at every opportunity.
You are right to state, albeit clumsily, that there is more potential for misbehaviour at football matches than at a golf event. I would simply suggest that anyone whose passions are aroused by the sight of a fat guy, dressed in clobber admired only by the likes of Donald Trump, Alex Salmond and your run of the mill Russian oligarch, oh and maybe by those people, whoever they are, who buy replica expensive watches to kid on they’re rich or, even worse, just to show they want everybody to know they like rich but stupid people, need to get out more.
Apologies to John, and anyone else who reads this, for my rambling, possibly incoherent, response. I had some spare time this morning and run off at the fingers a little.
To the Editors: Is there a reason for this emerging phenomenon, in which contributors to your news site refer to themselves simply as “Jim” or “John” or is this just a coincidence?
Am personally at a loss to know one Tom Dick or Harry from another; they do all seem to be Jims, Johns or similar of late.
Bruce have you ever been to a football match? Alcohol was sold at many grounds, Pittodrie had the “nip trolley” in the main stand from which whisky and vodka was sold from bottles with optics. Beer was also sold from the food kiosks. Fighting was not limited to the two clubs from Glasgow you mention one of my first games was Dundee against Aberdeen, where I recall being brought to tears as a 6 year old with the fighting both inside and outside the ground. Fast forward 30 odd years and games are better policed and the consumption of alcohol is banned on trains and busses, crowds segregation has meant that it is now becoming family entertainment where the number of families going has increased in the last few years, but the young child who was struck with a missile throw from the Aberdeen end on Sunday at Parkhead proves that some football fans cannot be trusted. Introducing alcohol back into the Scottish domestic game will send it back to the dark ages as you put it. It would not be beneficial to anyone even the clubs who make more profit from a cup of coffee than they do a plastic bottle of Budweiser.
Whatever your personal hatred for the former first minister your argument in this case is well wide of the mark.
Season ticket holder at Pittodrie and responsible drinker
Jim,
In general, I choose not to reply, whether in casual conversation or written correspondence, to those whose lack of sophistication and intellect, or just basic ignorance, renders them, in my considered view, to be ill equipped to absorb knowledge or to form an informed opinion or coherent argument. Sometimes, however, such people are sufficiently irritating that I am prompted, contrary to my better judgement, to waste my valuable time and respond. I tell you this simply that we understand each other a little better.
I attended my first football match at Pittodrie, as a four year old I hasten to add, in 1962 and, until adopting the lifestyle of a somewhat hedonistic hobo or when playing on a Saturday myself, never stopped going regularly to matches, both home and away. During all of these years, I have witnessed and, due to my impetuous and fun – loving nature, been caught up in scenes which would, judging from your sensitive nature, lead you to tears again. At no time and in no stadium in Scotland, can I ever recall being able to purchase alcohol at the pie counters or anywhere else. I may, of course, be wrong but, other than yourself, I can find no one who can recall doing so either. As for “nip trolleys” in the stand prior to the outright alcohol ban in 1980, are you seriously suggesting, even if this were true, that this sparse band of elderly citizens, resplendent in twin sets, anoraks and tartan rugs were known for singing “come and have a go if you think ye’re auld enough” if they decided to have a wee sherry as an accompaniment to their potted heid sandwiches and flasks of tea at half time?
Football fans, who choose to drink, can currently drink as much as they like right up until kick off time and do likewise afterwards. Unless you are saying that the booze in the Blue Lamp or Pittodrie Bar, for example, are watered down, I fail to see how having a drink in the stadium is likely to make them behave any differently to drinking in their favourite bar or club.
As for Mr Salmond, you confuse hatred with contempt. Only today, I am reminded of the corrupt nature of this odious individual, by the announcement that he has chosen a Rupert Murdoch owned company to publish his forthcoming book and of how Lord Leveson found him guilty of lobbying, at Westminster of all places, to further the commercial interests of the very same Rupert. That this was done, in return for political support from Mr Murdoch’s own newspapers in Scotland, makes it no more acceptable than had he done so for financial gain.
That he now chooses to continue his relationship with the not so PC Murdoch, for financial gain, from the publication of a book which, it is alleged, was partly written by publicly funded civil servants, cements his reputation, in my view, as a crook.
Good old St Johnstone though eh Jim?!
I think they should treble the number of wind turbines, cos when that idiot trump opens his mouth all that seems to come out is wind. i’m sure that idiot could help generate a few extra kw next time he comes back over here.
Well said Cllr Ford!
This is an experimental development of turbines, designed to give the nation experience in the design of renewable energy equipment, and offshore engineering. We want high technology, professional engineering jobs, not third-world servant jobs.
David is a tireless campaigner on issues surrounding disability. He is an amazingly aware person & understands about government cut will impact on ordinary citizens. I have no hesitation in supporting David for this award.
It’s all very well talking a lot but what, one must ask, has Ms Whiteford actually achieved for her constituents? As a member of a single – issue party, whose sole aim is to agitate for the democratically rejected ideological obsession of Scottish independence, Ms Whiteford remains a total irrelevance in the UK Parliament.
Perhaps she should spend more time explaining to her constituents exactly why she, and her colleagues, continue to defy the “sovereign will of the people of Scotland” instead of acting constructively on their behalf.
Cant say that during her stay in Aberdeen that I found the lady approachable. She was less than pleased when we had a demo in the foyer of the Marischal College on the day it opened. John Stewart was at least pleasant with us but she, obviously just back from a stay in the sun (and earned her the name of Fake Bake from a placard holding protester) just stopped short of stamping her feet. It maybe takes a special kind of person to get the best out of her. Perhaps a former chair of a campaign, oops sorry, a nurturing group, would help out to get her to co-operate . He managed to “loosen her up” and said she is “amenable to influence”. Sound advice that could perhaps be passed on.
This is brilliant news and proves that Aberdeen recognises the strong connection through historical and heritage links to the past. I exhibited a day of Traveller culture at Clinterty last year and found the children were so proud of their culture. Sites will make a monumental difference, I’d recommend P&Kinross take a leaf from Aberdeen Council’s book.
Aberdeenshire council Jess, Aberdeen city council wants a bylaw to stop gypsy travellers coming into the city instead of finding suitable travellers’ accommodation.
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen/433625/aberdeen-city-council-to-continue-push-for-travellers-bylaw/
Allard on Twitter this morning pretending he knew nothing of this. Shameful dishonesty.
Refused to say how much SNP paid towards policing of their own conference. I suspect it’s zero?
My main recollections of Ms Watts include her behaviour in Council Chambers, when she appeared to, in my opinion,dispose of something extremely nasty upon her employees from a great height. During a Council meeting, senior council employees respectfully and politely sought to explain the folly of a motion moved, and largely supported, by Councillors of the then Administration, not least because of a lack of resources. When the Councillors appeared to take umbrage at such apparent dissent, in reaction to the idea of a clearly unworkable policy, Ms Watts interrupted her employees to point out that, and I paraphrase based on my own potentially prejudiced interpretation:
“…..if this is what the Councillors want then I will ensure that it will be carried out and all the necessary resources provided to ensure that their demands are met, and if my employees can’t stand the heat then they can just……” I don’t think I need to labour the point, but this reminded me of so many career – obsessed, selfish and sad individuals, whom it has been my misfortune to encounter, but if that is how some people choose to lead their lives then who am I to argue?
On a lighter note, I am reliably informed, but cannot confirm, that it was the same Ms Watts who complained to the then Grampian Police, when a mannequin, by the name of Helena Torry, was registered to stand for election to Aberdeen City Council. The subsequent flurry of police activity, including covert operations, led to a major manhunt to locate the dangerous fugitive, who was allegedly brought to justice with the help of specially Mossad trained agents, in the vicinity of a well known and apparently excellent restaurant in the vicinity of The Green. Helena was to be detained, in solitary confinement, without food or water and made to sleep on an old bag(no pun intended Val) for a period of some months, before being cleared of all charges, as I recall.
No backbone and no sense of humour, some uncharitable individuals have been heard to venture!
Said companion of said Helena Torry called me from the back of a police van to say that she was being detained and could I please get help! Poor Helena was ‘armless – mostly, except when bearing a placard. Have to say I agree with your assessment of Ms Watts. And she, along with others, made a pig’s ear of the C of C bid. So ‘amenable to influence’ – not so sure about that!
“Said companion” provided me with some of the detail too. Definitely right up there in the “couldn’t make it up ” league!
I don’t know if you remember me Dorothy, but we met a few times an awful long time ago. I hope you and your family are well.
Hello Bruce Wood – Unless I’m havering, and at my age could well be, I remember you as having fishing industry connections. Have I got that right? I am well, as is the family. Where do the years go?
Of course she did! Unprofessional, inexcusable behaviour by a public servant – just a shame it seems that nothing can be done to make her accountable.
I agree with Martin Ford that the Scottish government should not have been taken in by Trump and the benefits have not materialised at the cost of our SSSI. Because his planning application has not materialised surly he can be made to compensate for the areas loss of promised jobs and investment and the planning consent should be withdrawn. I don’t think the American public would be taken in with his absurd thought he could come close to being in any way adequate material for president. Then again the Scottish government were taken in.
He must be stopped and not allowed to profit from planning gifted to him at our expense. the planning must be revoked. There will be no inward investment he will be taking the money for our land out of the country. Take the bull by the horns and let him rant, threaten and say what he likes just don’t let him profit from us, throw him out.
Little known fact: the Scots and French had dual-citizenship until 1903
All very laudable but, given Aberdeen Crossrail has been spoken about for over thirty years and we only have Dyce and Laurencekirk stations re-opened, I wouldn’t be holding my breath on this one.
With the existing rail infrastructure, it is perfectly possible to operate a thirty minute service from Stonehaven to Inverurie, even with the installation of additional halts/stations. In the short term this could be achieved by realigning the timetable between Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen to provide the above service. It would, of course, require additional coaches and train crew
The cost of pouring concrete in to the dubious scheme fo Union Terrace Gardens.would be more than enough to fund Aberdeen Crossrails implementation, so one does wonder what our illustrious politicians and bastions of industry are playing at. Common sense seems to have flown out the window. A partial solution to the city’s gridlock is staring them in the face.
Ron,
I am in complete agreement with you. We are a city with the sea to the east and rivers to the north and south(stating the obvious I know) yet there is no political or industry lobby to do the sensible thing and create a modern integrated public transport system, based on rail and a proper support network to make it work for the benefit of all.
Having briefly discussed this some years ago, with a local Labour MP, I was dismayed to find that such an idea was thought to be an impossible dream, such is the lack of ambition and imagination of those, of all political parties, who represent us. I therefore suspect that we are right not to hold our breath.
I would go further than this: with the reopening of the Deeside line at least as far as Banchory if not Aboyne, the doubling of the Inverness Aberdeen line to enable a regular hourly service, and why stop at Ellon, Peterhead and The Broch, would seriously benefit from the economic boost a reopened railway would bring!! Turriff, Banff and Oldmeldrum could equally benefit from reconnection to the rail network….And electrify the lot!!!
Let the wind turbines that now blight our countryside do something worthwhile!
Absolutely!
What I fail to understand is, why the public are not actively clamouring for such a strategy. The benefits are obvious in the extreme. My only disagreement with you is that I feel the Deeside line could be re- opened as far as Ballater. There may be some difficulties, but none of them would be insurmountable.
Signing against
Opening the line to Peterhead would (in my opinion) reduce the congestion on the A90 & A952. Given that some hundreds of houses are being built at Mintlaw, and that, I would imagine, most of the occupants will end up commuting to Aberdeen, a park & ride rail scheme would be a good idea.
These are magnificent creatures and we should do everything in our power to save these beautiful animals, too much culling of poor defenseless animals are allowed
These are majestic creatures and should be saved at all costs.too much culling have went on in this world show some compassion
Please stop.
Deer are beautiful animals let’s keep them safe
Please stop this cull
Save them they do no harm an hav been ther born an reared. Why shd they b moved.
The SNH and city will say that deer have (allegedly) been involved in 30 accidents last year. Well, if we left them some habitat and put up signs to warn motorists, things might be different. The city have repeatedly been asked to put up deer crossing signs (like you’d see further north or in the USA) – but the city says people ignore signs. Somehow that doesn’t stop the city putting up all sorts of other signs. If only they wanted to move the deer – but that is (laughably) illegal: they just shoot them. The logic for not moving deer is that some of them would die if tranquilized (I am sure there are ways to measure doses of such tranquilizers). So instead the SNH shoots 100%, rather than giving some the chance to be relocated.
I used to live beside the Gramps as we knew it then. I walked the dog there regularly, rode my horse there regularly, and played with my son there when he was a little boy. We even had barbeques there. The deer have lived quite happily on this hill for years. Why does man have to interfere and ruin things. This area should be for the people and the wildlife to enjoy. STOP KILLING OUR WILDLIFE
So sorry to hear about Bob Smith. I always enjoyed reading his weekly poetry and frequently found that he not eloquently expressed my own sentiments, but also led me on nostalgic trips to places I had long forgotten.
I never met Bob but suspect that they just dinna mak folk like him ony mair!!
that’s hitting the nail on the head as I see it Bruce
that’s hitting the nail on the head as I see it Bruce
Question? Does anyone do anything these days for the love of it? Or are we totally consumed by money, greed and self importance?
Trust us you say, okay we did and look what happened.
What excuse next? We shall wait for your answer.
It is not the 1950s. Almost anyone can now afford to buy and run a car and that is why the roads are congested. Train travel is inconvenient in comparison and not particularly good value anyway. The only way the congestion problem on the A90 between Aberdeen and Peterhead will be solved is by sorting out the A90 itself once and for all so that it can actually handle the volume of traffic thrown at it now, which is probably not going to change any time soon, railway or no railway.
It may help reduce the freight traffic on the A90 in the long term, but that’s it…and we are talking about companies that have been used to using the roads for freight for more than 40 years now. It won’t stop one tractor taking the whole road down to a 25mph limit for miles at a time. Only another lane will do that. It won’t stop the tailbacks at the Ellon Road because no one will swap using their own warm car for a convoluted, multi stage journey in the freezing cold, and it won’t stop the tailbacks when the dual carriageway merges into a single lane at Balmedie because, guess what? Everyone will still just use their own car rather than stand waiting for a train in diagonal sleet in the name of freeing up the A90 for someone else to use in your place.
Why waste years and hundreds of millions on half measures? Sort out the roads, move the North East forward – don’t try to resurrect an obsolete method of transport in the hope that it MIGHT help things A BIT. If you want to save the planet then why slap a great big (diesel) railway over the cycle path? It won’t save the planet and it will likely hardly make any difference to congestion. How long would people bother with the faff of (car, carpark, pay, station, wait in the rain, pay, train, wait in the freezing drizzle, pay, bus, walk in gale force winds) when they could just take their car that they already have and won’t be getting rid of anytime soon? Do you really think that Mr. Oil Industry in his V8 Audi with leather seats wants to rub shoulders with us sneezing plebs on the train instead?
A road based solution is the only real one. The end.
Yes especially as the major destinations (eg airport & other new industrial areas) are being built a way away from rail infrastructure.
Not everybody can drive. It is unfair on us that these railways have been pulled out. And fifty passengers on a deisel train will always be more environmentally friendly than those same people in cars. How many cars on the street are electric? Plus there’s the damage of the batteries, and there’s still traffic congestion.
Against
I’m not sure this paen to our ‘favourite ‘ newspaper – and a call for other Aberdeen Voice’s – has ever been published before,
Thanks Bob.
LIT’S HAE A BOYCOTT
Lit’s aa hae a wee boycott
O baith oor local papers
Faa noo are seen as biased
In favour o business capers
Nae muckle objective reportin
In the columns o EE or P&J
Jist lots o damn’t propaganda
Fae some business mannie’s oot tray
Time fer fowk noo ti kick
The buggers faar it’s sair
Dinna buy the nyaff papers
Hae editors teerin their hair
People power is fit we need
Tell the publishers we’re fair sick
Aye readin the bliddy scrivens
O some business leanin prick
A wis near 25 ‘ear in advertisin
Paper’s weak spot aa ken it is
Haein sales drappin like a steen
Syne the gaffers get in a fizz
Ti sell advertisin bi the column
Circulation figures maun bide gweed
If fowk stoppit buyin the papers
The Evening Distress wid seen bi deid
Think o aa the fowk workin there
Some north east fowk micht cry
A didna see muckle “EE carin”
Fin they hung Martin Ford oot ti dry
The solution fer baith papers
Ti sooth some north east wrath
Cum oot o “business” hip pooches
An jist steer a mair middle path
©Bob Smith “The Poetry Mannie” 2012
And I had the great privilege of being the subject
“THE DEBRA”
A’m hearin the news “The Debra”
As a cooncillor she’s nae ti stand
Nae langer haein ti watch her back
Or see fowk beery their heids in the sand
She’ll be missed nae doot o iss
Fer staanin up ti the bully boys
Like “The Donald” or sidekick Sorial
Fin fae prams hiv chukkit their toys
Noo Trump micht hae the thocht
The quine’ll be aff his back
If iss is fit the chiel’s thinkin
A doot he’s on the wrang track
We shudna jist think o Debra Storr
As a bodie close ti the Menie debacle
Oor Debra wisna feart at aa
Ony ither cause she wid tackle
She’s ti try her haun at plannin
As weel as workin wi Green Cat
Am winrin fit the mannie Trump
Wull maybe mak o aat
Am sure she’ll still show the flag
Fer a warld mair socially just
An keepin ti her gweed principles
Sustainable environments are a must
So a hope the ither cooncil fowk
Debra fer her wark div thank
As she wint aboot her business
Like some pocket Sherman tank
The cooncil chambers o the shire
Noo winna hae the same zing
Debra she’ll aye be thocht o
As the quine they cwidna ding
Bob Smith “The Poetry Mannie” 2012
Such sad news to hear of Bob Smith’s passing – The Poetry Mannie will be missed by all his regular readers. May he rest In peace. Here’s another of his best.
Windfairms (Wi apologies to Wullie Wordsworth) by Bob Smith.
A wanner’t lonely as a clood
A stravaig’t throwe hills an pines
Fin aa at eence a saw aroond
A host o bliddy win’ turbines
Abeen the loch reachin ti the sky
Their massive blades a did espy
Conteenyus as the stars aat shine
They sproot on the taps o hills
Streechin in an nivver eynin line
We’re telt they’ll cure oor energy ills
Meybe nae ten thoosan at a gleck
As alang ma waak a did trek
The waves in loch aside me dunced
As turbine blades they did turn
A swore, a shook, a fairly prunced
An a near fell in a burn
A gazed an gazed in sombre stare
As whirlin blades they rent the air
Aft fin on ma cooch a lie
In vacant or in turmoil mood
There flashes in ma myn’s eye
An image a see fit’s nae good
An syne ma hairt wi anger fills
As a see crockaneetion on the hills.
*************************************************
Happy to say the petition was successful; more details here https://aberdeenvoice.com/2015/04/city-council-to-hear-tullos-hill-petitioner/
Any issues one might have with salmon’s risks can be mitigated with a varied diet — something that’s tremendously important both for one’s health and for the environment.
I think most of would prefer to hear how the SNP would protect us from the crippling and unprecedented Greek style austerity programme, which would be necessitated by their proposed policy of full fiscal autonomy and the undisputed £7.6 billion annual deficit this would result in.
One might think they would be extolling the benefits of such de facto independence, yet it seems to be the SNP policy which dare not speak it’s name.
Bona Cola and two hot rowies clarted in butter. Such was the specialist sports nutrition, of the time, which spurred great victories from Harlaw to Nelson Street and from Linksfield to Kaimhill.
Happy days!
One suspects the “hot dogging housewife” might have a better grasp of basic economics and be less inclined to intentionally mislead people, in pursuit of her own obsessions?!
We had a comment from a Mr Murray; it contained unsupported allegations and with these removed, virtually nothing remained, except his comment ‘Oh, poor salmon’. If you would like to send in evidence of anyone harassing anyone (we have evidence of Sea Shepherd being harassed captured on video), or indeed of any ships being rammed, please do send this; we would be interested. Otherwise, your comments are not something we can publish.
Hi. We will be sending out cheques shortly, but first we have to cash the money and arrange times to present cheques to the charities, ideally with the appropriate winning acts handing over the money on behalf of Right Here Productions. Is there any reason you have implied we won’t be doing that?
The total raised for charity (thanks to our generous audience members and sponsors) was £2.650.
LABOUR COUNCILLERS ARE NEEDING A REALITY CHECK ,ABERDEEN CITY IS DISFUNCTIONAL,FACT in my opinion
LABOUR COUNCILLERS ARE NEEDING A REALITY CHECK ,ABERDEEN CITY IS DISFUNCTIONAL,FACT ,THEY EVEN BLOCK COMMENTS LIKE YOU HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT in my opinion
Guessing wry missed the mark Dan. I obviously got the tone wrong and of course apologise for my error. Taking care to publicise the event in both Aberdeen Voice and Leopard Magazine demonstrates my wholehearted, continued support for the event and the charities it benefits.
I would not be able to offer support if I thought for a moment there were any concerns. It was simply the humorous stance you adopted on the night. Wishing you luck and looking forward to the next one.
I have seen this mind set for years rough wild areas not valued and often used as an excuse for planning permission calling it “waste land” The Donald Trump fiasco was the same. Trump said, “the people will love it, we will make this piece of land beautiful.” What he said sadly is what a lot of people think. Manicured lawns, neat and tidy planting achieved with the use of chemicals and pesticides. Give me brambles nettles and gorse any day.
Anyone who actually knows anything about the environment will know that getting rid of the deer will allow it to regenerate properly. Otherwise it’s about the same as having a flock of sheep grazing away at it.
If we want to get greener, we need to do our homework. Otherwise we all end up looking like a bunch of ill-informed hippies and don’t get taken seriously!
Exactly Bert. You are right. For this reason, the deer must be culled. Unless someone wants to let some Lynx or wolves loose on Tullos Hill?
Ben, you’ve not read a single one of the articles on AV about Tullos, or so it seems. There is a soil report saying trees won’t grow. It is common knowledge the deer population on this hill was stable for over 70 years – no starvation, no overpopulation. The new SNH guidelines are controversial; landowners, animal welfare groups and gamekeepers feel the deer numbers proposed are far too small. You bring up the old ‘no natural predator’ argument. Did you know there have been no natural predators in Scotland for over 300 years? Yet somehow we have increased the acreage of woodlands, and the deer population has not spiralled out of control, whatever the SNH say. But this is about Tullos, where the city has ripped up considerable quantities of gorse and meadowland on what was a rubbish tip with a very rocky soil matrix and little topsoil. The hill is subject to the high winds which would make any trees subject to wind toss, and the salt spray from the North Sea doesn’t exactly favour trees either. Finally, I hardly see what your comment has to do with Bert’s apparent desire to have had this hill left alone.
Hi Suzanne,
Thanks for your comment. I’m sorry you feel the need to be so confrontational. We all want nature to flourish, we just have different ideas regarding the methodology.
I’m skeptical regarding the soil issues. I don’t doubt that the soil is contaminated. However, I would find it remarkable if vegetation is entirely unable to grow and set into action a succession. The ability of nature to reclaim what we have damaged is extraordinary.
I’m well aware that there have been no natural predators of deer for hundreds of years. This is why deer numbers have (and they have) risen out of control across large parts of the country (combined of course with management for high densities).
Of course, Tullos is a very different place and isn’t a deer moor. Nevertheless the fact remains that culling deer (not eradicating, culling) represents a straight forward method for helping the vegetation to flourish and in turn boost biodiversity. A cull on its own, of course, isn’t the only answer. Some additional conservation / management work would also be required…which seems to be partly what ‘A tree for every citizen’ is proposing.
It may well be true that the deer population at Tullos has been stable in the past. That’s fine, but at those levels it is unlikely that the ‘Trees…’ project would be a success. This represents a time when the (usually incompetent) council is actually making an effort to revitalise part of the city into a usable green space. Culling deer to help enable this to happen, is a good move in my opinion. In the end the habitat that is being proposed will be suitable (and better?!) for deer.
Finally, my point with regards to Bert’s comment was a little facetious. Whereas Bert would prefer the hill ‘left alone’ in terms of not culling deer. I would prefer the hill ‘left alone’ in terms of reducing the grazing.
Hello Ben; interesting that you find my response confrontational; I found your remarks about Tullos and letting predators loose just a bit condescending. But it seems you still aren’t quite on the page. This was a meadow. It never was a forest. There have been expensive attempts to grow trees on Tullos. A 2008 report to the city explains that this former rubbish tip just won’t support trees because of its soil matrix. People made money from the scheme to try and turn it into a forest; they were given power by the city and no debate at all was allowed; no experts allowed to speak on how to try and grow trees without killing deer. The hill is rocky as well as being used as a dump for decades (industrial waste, domestic, and a touch of uranium and other metals); we had a biodiverse meadow we enjoyed; now we have weeds and tree guards. Please do look back at the copious quantity of articles on Aberdeen Voice; it will help. Bert is right; for at least 70 years we had the deer and the meadow. Then the Lib Dems, especially Aileen Malone, pushed for this scheme.
Its obviously the bread maker that makes the best rowies!!
Whilst I in no way endorse cruelty or shooting of animals for sport, do we have a moral responsibility to cull for the continued health of the colonies. With the recent evidence of cannibalism by SMRU from St Andrews, have we over protected some species to the detriment of the health and behaviour?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31146971
Hi Jim, it is possible, but not by any means certain, that cannibalism is to blame http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-31535600 . However, is it necessary for the SNH to decide yet again which animals it wants and doesn’t want, and to start dishing out yet more culling licenses? The only animal that the SNH seems reticent to stop being predatory, greedy and over-reaching is man. Raptor protection is laughable; wild salmon numbers are plummeting, deer, grey squirrels, seals, some birds are all culled with the SNH blessing, happily pleasing the hunting lobby at the same time. In fact, the lines between hunting and SNH goals and perhaps personnel are getting rather blurry, and the wildlife continues to suffer – imo.
Bridies or Bradies? Not being be from Aberdeen I call em Bridies, is this a pronunciation issue?
Oh, a definite Thains for me, haven’t been in some 20yrs tho….
This could only happen in Aberdeen. Any other city would see this as an opportunity and an asset to Aberdeen.
As an enthusiastic cycling roadie, I can verify that there are many more accidents, involving cyclists, on our roads, than there are involving deer. In accordance with the spirit of the ACC strategy, I would, therefore, like to add my voice to the growing number of cyclists campaigning to be permitted to become the willing victims of “cycle cull” to improve the survival rates of cyclists across the world.
To all Range Rover drivers, I would like to thank you for unilaterally adopting this approach, in advance of any official policy implementation.
I wish the project success but wonder how long the rooftop location will be in use. Most such concrete buildings have a limited life and I wonder if the £200k will be well spent considering that the building may well be pulled down within the next decade.
A bit late, I realise, but why is there a kangaroo in the photo?
[ Haha …. yes, I have to agree that deer is very kangaroo-ish … You’ve heard the phrase ‘you are what you eat’? …. maybe something in it. Roe deer and kangaroos have a very similar diet – Editor ]
Ikea will be opening a small Aberdeen store in the future. It is part of the new huge expansion that Ikea is about to undertake to catch up with online shopping. This includes small stores, pick up points across the UK and a distribution hub between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Watch this space. Exciting times ahead.
In my opinion what a despicable excuse for a man Trump is along with his sons, from killing protected big game in Africa to buying supposedly protected land at a knock down price then fighting to destroy it making millions in the process. Not only here but world wide. I hope the planners, council and government now throw this application out and protect the land for nature. I would be glad to see the back of him. RGU should be ashamed giving him an honorary degree. He should be stripped of that as well.
Nice one, Suzanne!
This is a good example of what the drive for growth really means. More and more of nature is tarred over and re-formed to create a system for the flow of debt money so that the pie can get bigger and we all supposedly get a bigger piece.
Who else but economists would get away with the concept of a growing pie?
Certainly not scientists.
Other forms of development involving peoples’ real needs are available, but we have to demand them.
Absolutely outrageous that local media have not reported on this – thankfully we have Aberdeen Voice, & I hope those of us that read Suzanne’s output regularly pass on this info to family & friends. Indeed, I think I might send a link to this article to Aberdeen Journals & ask if they have any comment to make.
thank you for the kind words. Please do ask AJL why a Trump restaurant review gets a 2 page spread, but these plans and the pre-application consultation don’t merit an article; I’d be fascinated to know. It’s almost as if the P&J had some reason to deflect people from making any comment; but surely that couldn’t be the case.
War And Peace indeed! And the good guys won!
Chuckling at your Trump update, Suzanne! I’m sure you won’t be surprised to hear that I’ve not heard a peep from Aberdeen Journals in response to the email I sent them which I mentioned in the ‘comments’ section of your article last week. Not sure that reminding them will do any good either – “The Voice of the North East” indeed…
The online register will be very useful, and will no doubt demonstrate how fairly, swiftly and impartially the Council acts with regard to deviations from approved plans. I can off the top of my head think of quite a few instances where such a register would be of great interest and importance.
I’m confused, the Trump people did place the adverts as required, are the activists up in arms about it because it wasn’t front page news and they missed them??
Oh and a big well done to the Wood foundation after the news they’ll spend £10 Million pounds building a new free to use hospital multi story at ARI, I’m sure the staff there, patients and visitors will be thrilled, odd you missed the news given how quickly you report any damaging news regarding Sir Ian. Perhaps you’re being as biased as the media you don’t like. There’s a thought, tallyho.
Isn’t it great to see Eilidh Whiteford taking youngsters to Westminster. They too could be SNP MPs in the UK parliament for years to come.
There were actually five members of the He111 crew, all are buried at Dyce cemetery.
I stand corrected.
My late father in law George Melvin was the quartermaster sergeant in the RAF stationed at RAF Dyce, at this time . He was the person who drove the plane transporter vehicle carrying the coffins and remains along the winding country back roads to Dyce church yard where the remains were interred. There are only three gravestones and the remains of the third grave were eventually return to Germany several years after the war.
I find it disgusting and absolutely shocking at how biased this paper is. I seen the remarks that your so called journalist made on one of the animal sanctuary sites, and it was disgusting. The woman that runs the sanctuary that is so very obviously being spoken about here, works very hard and does it all herself. Your (so called) journalist was invited up on more than one occasion. But she never turned up at all. So how she has the audacity to speak about sanctuaries this way, without knowing the facts is not only slander, but is very very poor journalism. I can only assume that she couldn’t find the time to leave the brewdog beer for long enough.
I really really hope that some of the sanctuaries get together and sue this paper.
** [This comment is being published in full, in spite of obvious and valid reasons why some content contravenes publication criteria, as it has been published in full on a public facebook page. Therefore it appears futile to edit – Moderator]
For the benefit of readers, I believe Fiona must be talking about Northfield Animal Haven. As far as the article in question is concerned, it was a press release from other animal shelters – ones that do not sell animals at Thainstone to support saving other animals – and my name, Suzanne Kelly, was used in the article’s by line as ‘with thanks to’. I didn’t write the piece – which also appeared in local printed newspapers as well. But I stand by this initiative – who wouldn’t? – Suzanne
PS – readers who wonder whether the Aberdeen Voice was right to print this press release may be interested to know that the Press & Journal somehow found the same story to be newsworthy – https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeenshire/593127/aberdeenshire-animal-sanctuaries-unite-to-be-heard/ . I look forward to reading Fiona’s criticism of the P&J’s Blair Dingwall, who has the byline for the story. Enjoy!
If there is anything more obscene than knocking down buildings with historical significance, it’s knocking those buildings down to make way for a service yard. Who wants to explain to the grandchildren that we levelled yet another completely sound and historically significant building — from the days when architects designed memorable landmarks rather than cash cows — in the name of a glorified, fenced-off square of glistening Tarmac dubbed a “service yard” along with the vague idea of hosting some teenage boybands?
It appears that one of the required qualifications for being an Aberdeen City Councillor (whether on the current council or those in bygone years) is that the candidate must be devoid of any appreciation for history and architectural heritage. There should be a new requirement for all candidates that they are tested for, and possess, such an appreciation – otherwise they can’t be on the council.
A tragedy indeed but it is difficult to imagine who would take on such a structure. The renovation and running costs would be severe and unless the building has unique architectural significance a future role looks dismal. There are many ruined buildings throughout the NE which have merit and this one seems destined for the text-book of history.
Agreed Duncan but is there no way, and I concede my naivety in advance here, of allocating the legal responsibility for securing a suitable tenant/ensuring adequate maintenance and protection for the building, to the developer, as a condition of planning permission?
From the outside, it appears that successive Council Administrations, both City and Shire, and the Scottish Government have been happy to sacrifice our architectural and environmental heritage, for very little in return.
Indeed Bruce. It is a sad state of affairs. Our land is littered with such ruins. Missed now perhaps but not valued in the past except in old words. Look at Hallforest, Pitlurg and the ruins of Slains. I see where you are coming from but doubt that the Council Tax funders of the Garioch would be happy paying for the renovation of past disasters.
All very laudable but, given Aberdeen Crossrail (Stonehaven to Inverurie) has been spoken of for over thirty years and only Laurencekirk and Dyce have materialised, I won’t be holding my breath. At the end of the day, if the line were to be re-opened, would it save commuters any time? Perhaps it would be cheaper to dual the road from Ellon to Aberdeen and provide a cheap (subsidised) park and ride facility between the two.
No mention of the drug den in union terrace garden? Sir Ian’s gift of £50 Million pounds would have made the area attractive to local people, it was what they voted for after all, instead we have junkies shooting up yards away from our main thoroughfare. Shame on all those who fought so hard to stop the progressive plans, they must share some of the blame as what has became of the dank hole in the ground.
All imo.
BTW Please provide proof Sir Ian has illegally avoided taxes?
If it’s via legal methods then fair play to him I say, one presumes you don’t use tax free shops at airports if your moral compass on tax avoidance is so high?
I say thank you to the Wood family trust, they could quite easily just keep the money and buy a holiday island or yacht, instead they’re donating a huge sum to build a much needed car park to ARI, the nurses and staff who struggle to find a space must be delighted.
my moral compass is fine, thank you Bill. So for you anything that’s not illegal is OK? Trust you were fine with people dying on illegal highs then. Here’s an article for you about the morality of taking money out of the UK’s taxes and one scheme used by SIW. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/jake-molloy-column-1905148 I’m sure you’ll be fine with it. The duty free issue is bizarre; and no, Old Susannah doesn’t go around buying expensive designer stuff at airports or anywhere else, thank you. Good on him donating £10 million. I do have to wonder how much tax revenue has been lost though over the years by this one offshore scheme alone. I pay all the tax I owe. If everyone did, maybe there would be no need for food banks. Food for thought
I’m lucky enough to have seen the inside of Strathcona house on many occasions, it’s a truly beautiful building, to demolish it would be a crying shame. Surely it would be ideal for a high end hotel or at the very least conversion to apartments, regardless the council should not be permitted to destroy it.
Economics not “the council” are destroying it.
People buy alcohol and cigarettes duty free to avoid paying tax, what’s bizarre about that?? It’s a legal tax avoidance scheme that the majority of people will have used at some point in life. Companies would not be doing justice to their shareholders if they didn’t set out to maximise their profits, using tax avoidance schemes is their duty.
I’m not bothered about anyone dying of a legal high, I’m sure those taking them are well aware of the risks, it’s probably no more dangerous than alcohol, a legal drug that you like to promote but one that kills more people than any other drug in the World. It appears you have no problem owning shares in a company that makes this killer drug, it’s easy to shift the compass to suit isn’t it?
Oh Bill, you do make me laugh. Believe it or not, it is possible to drink in moderation; and millions of us indulge in this ‘killer drug’ responsibly. There is arguably no safe way to smoke, but no doubt you’ll argue the toss. Perhaps you should try googling ‘legal highs’ and see how well aware of the risks people were. All the best
I really wish this site had a bigger readership. #owned.
#Onesirian.
#junkieinthepark.
I could easily argue the toss re smoking, in my pot smoking days I’d have one or two five skinners and retire to my bed quite happy, I’d wake feeling a million dollars, now I have 7 or 8 Stellas and wake feeling tired and rough, all down to my oil and gas bosses wanting me to be drug free.
I’m now free of those shackles due to the oil cull but not found the courage to indulge in drugs, I would though if I knew a dealer, perhaps I’ll head to UTG.
Good to see you back Bill, we’d wondered where you’d disappeared to. Each passing issue, without the icing on the cake in the form of a comment from you, has left us feeling a sense of loss. On the other hand, a sense of calm has not been unwelcome.
Right on cue tho, up you pop as soon as we mention the gardens or certain ‘philanthropists’. Guess you’ll be glad to have something to get your teeth into now the fitba season is done, eh?
Eager to engage with you as I am on these issues, time is short at the moment, and other than the need to welcome you back, there is another issue which will become apparent in the fullness of time.
So glad to see that we have not been required to edit/amend your posts tho. Might I optimistically assume the penny has dropped? It would be nice to think so. 😀
Tell me please how you get on in your endeavours to score some drugs in UTG, should you decide upon such research, and your statistics on the apparent supply and demand, and we may get an article from you yet. However, if not, then I at least have a wee reading excercise for you which I’m sure you will enjoy.
I always had you down as a more of a four skinner than a five skinner Bill. Seems I under estimated you.
After the article was set, a college spokesperson said, “The End of Year Creative Art Show is the culmination of two years’ hard work. It’s an opportunity to show the best of students’ work to friends, family, future employers and the public. Space is limited and so curating decisions for the End of Year Show are made by the College’s Art & Design lecturing team to ensure that what is shown is right for this particular exhibition, and for our audience.
“The student in this case has an excellent portfolio and staff were keen to display work that highlighted the student’s talent. However one piece did raise concerns that it was not appropriate in the context of the show. Nudity was not a factor in the decision to omit this piece. The images were considered by the curators of the show and were deemed inappropriate for the audience who will be attending due to the hand gestures depicted. Rather than the student censoring their work and compromising their artistic integrity, a decision was made to omit this piece from the exhibition. The student will be exhibiting other work from her portfolio.
“Principal Rob Wallen is happy to discuss this decision with the student.”
Bibo Keeley replied:
“1. I was told that this was the sole decision by the Chief exec, I am not aware
of a selection committee. the reason given was ‘not the nudity, but the way is presented’. Nobody could tell me what that meant. It was not clear whether the gestures were part of this.
2. I am not showing work at all (by my own choice) now because I am not bowing to censureship
3. I asked if I cld discuss this with rob wallen and was told by the teaching staff not to contact him
4. It was me who offered to cover the nipples, not their suggestion
5. It was me who offered to exchange the pics with the hand gestures for other images
6. I was told that this piece is not going in whatever I do to it, and that the decision was final
7. As for the space, every hnc student gets one exhib board,
hnd students get more”
On reading the college’s statement, I was interested to note that there are people in charge of deciding what is / is not right for their sensitive audience. An artist has since written to say: “Another slant on this Suzanne is the curating angle and molliecodling the viewing public and deciding on their behalf that these images, for whatever reason, are offensive and they are doing us a favour. They are speaking for the silent majority after all…. It’s a fine line between a curator and the thought police and it’s happening all over the place.” The college’s comment mentions ‘future employers’ – happily for me, the degree shows I was in were not designed to be employment-related exhibitions, but rather a chance for students to freely show their work. The art in degree shows I was in (New York Institute of Technology; Edinburgh College of Art) were not in any way subject to curation; I think my fellow students and I would have found that an unwanted intrusion and would not have accepted any such curation, especially without a chance for discussion; Bibo says she was told not to speak to the head of the school and was not given an explanation for the exclusion. It is good to see the school is willing to talk; but it may well be too late. As to the claim the nudity was not an issue, but the hand gestures were, is this to say that one form of censorship was not in place but another form of censorship was?
“What is missing though is a proper museum/gallery” – I don’t see this comment as being accurate. Aberdeen has an excellent Art Gallery and has the Maritime Museum, Tollbooth museum and Provost Skene’s House. Additionally, the University of Aberdeen has several museums in Old Aberdeen which are open to the public.
Well, if it wasn’t art before, it is now 😉
” … probably because Aberdeen has never had to rely on anything else but oil and gas”. Really? Aberdeen has a long history, going back about a thousand years. The oil & gas industry has only been here about 50 years. Wonder what we were all living on/off before the 1970s? The harbour? Fishing? Agriculture and food-processing? Textiles? Paper-making? Granite? Shipbuilding? Our two universities and mega health-care complex? No, I must have imagined all that stuff!
I was fortunate enough to spend two years of my life in that stunning building. Though the place was mostly used as offices at the back of the building there were blocks of flats meant for students. My down stairs neighbour was a Belgium living with his grand mum. Like thoes grannies in the movies, kind and always offering food. Life was taking me to new chapter where I was learning to come to terms with the fact that good thing never last and feeling can be very dangerous thing. However, going through the bad patch the house on the other hand offered the cosiness of a home. That gorgeous building with the magnificent garden, lobby, stair cases and stone facing was like a kind parent waiting to refuge me every evening after work.
I had an occasional visitor in the middle of the night, voice of a lady wiping as if mourning for a loved one, which later I found out I was not the only one hearing it though no one other than the grand mum and I ever claimed to here it. She didnt come back after gran mums prayer though. Guess she was put in peace. Guess these are expected from old and charactered buildings as such.
I certainly would be sad to see it demolished
Best rowies in the 60s..70s were KENNEDYS Merkland Rd.
I know u posted this 5 years ago but I’m trying to make some rowies for me dad we live in Hull but me dad is fae The Deen & he was born in 1954 so I’m guessin his favourites are probably going to be from around the 60s & 70s I dunno exactly but I’m just trying 2 find out the best ones from the people of Aberdeen’s point of view so that hopefully then I could maybe track down a decent recipe coz if u lookin YouTube & Google for a recipe well they’re all completely different which kinda adds doubt & also makes it hard 2 pick which 1 2 do so anyway i know it’s a long shot but if u do happen to get this msg could u maybe let me know a bit about the best rowies from around tht time that a kid from logie gardens might of had when he was a wee bairn plz? Thankyou 👍🏻 Leanne
‘The culmination of two years hard work’ where the student submits what they think are their best pieces and ‘someone’ at the college decides these pieces are ‘inappropriate’. I thought this was art? If ever a subject has the need of freedom of expression it’s art. What are you censoring – not nudity but hand gestures? If this was not terribly sad it would be utterly laughable.
Which of the gestures were deemed so offensive that ‘friends, family, future employers and the public’ would be unable to cope? I have some relatives over eighty who might be deemed prudish by modern standards but not one who would be offended by a gesture in an exhibited piece of art. It’s art. They would feel this about some of the highly controversial exhibits in the past – even if disgusted and appalled they would still wish the exhibit to go ahead. And this is what is laughable. I find Bibo Keeley’s images provocative conceptually – Female nipples, the masks, the gestures – but it’s hardly pornographic or debasing – it’s actually quite refreshing. It’s clearly a well thought through piece of Art.
I could say more on this – there seem to be a number of contradictory and confused statements by the College – this is the bit that is not laughable. It’s actually very troubling.
I can’t see how this artwork could cause offence, especially given the message it puts across. This sort of censorship infringes the freedom that artists should have to express themselves.
Another beaut of an article Susannah – it’ll take me a while to stop chuckling at some of your writing – only thing I would take issue with is your describing Neil Young as ‘obscure’.
ah that’s the satire. I love Neil Young. He might not have a tv programme or a golf course, but he’s got something else. Values, talent, and credibility
Apologies, Suzanne, I did wonder – satire, sarcasm etc doesn’t always translate through the ether! I’m a big fan of Neil Young, Mr Trump not so much…
happy to clarify; sometimes the boundaries may seem blurry. and thanks for the kind words
Radio 4 actually announced on a news programme that Trump has “a face like a surprised anus”. (News Quiz – Jeremy Hardy.)
It’s a bit rubbish though…….
Hello John – usually when writing one sentence, you include the subject, not just a pronoun like ‘it’ so people understand what the subject of your sentence is. When you say ‘it’s a bit rubbish’ – I can only conclude you mean the college’s contradictory statements, or the decision to ban any artwork. If you mean the artwork is rubbish – well that’s a very harsh opinion to offer, and you offer no reason as to why. As someone with a BA and a MA (both honours) in Fine Art, I am sure you can’t mean the artwork is rubbish. The technical execution of the photographs is faultless, the composition of the photographs on the page is full of movement and interesting shapes (and negative shape). The bird’s head to anonymize the women is artful and is a strong part of the messages that the artist is powerfully putting across. If you have some specific comments to make as to whatever it is you think is rubbish, let’s have them.
PS – after this piece was published this story came to light. I don’t think satire is an appropriate response for such heartless, mindless cruelty. This beggars belief. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/18/donald-trump-wheelchair-journalist_n_7610380.html
You can dress it up all you like suzanne but at the end of the day one’s opinion of what is good art and what is not is a very (indeed, one of the most) personal thing. I just happen to think it’s not much good, and didn’t warrant the publicity it received. That’s my opinion, you may have a different one. Surely you’re not trying to belittle my opinion just because you happen to think it has merit?
so – thank you for clarifying that it is the artwork that you say is ‘rubbish’ – not the censorship or the college’s behaviour. It’s a bit of a shift to move from rubbishing someone’s art to saying taste in art is subjective as you are doing. Perhaps you could have done a more kind thing, and commented ‘I don’t like this art’ or ‘I don’t think this is good art because….’ You sill give no reasons for rubbishing this woman’s artwork. No one is dressing anything up. Art is personal taste, but there are also means by which to talk about art – what do you think of the colours, composition, techniques, subject matter, message, etc. You are correct – I am not trying to belittle your opinion – now that I know it is not the censorship but the art that you declare to be ‘rubbish’ I just wish to understand why you decided to be so harsh and cruel, and what your criterion was for calling it ‘rubbish’. Your opinion will be most welcome by me if accompanied by some kind of reasonable critique – how much sympathy do you expect after rubbishing someone’s work without being able to justify what’s rubbish about it? I’ve given reasons why this work has merit for me. Awaiting patiently your reasoned, logical explanation of your opinion.
“This is the first time the main directors of the company have travelled to Crovie as they rarely leave their main base at Fishtown of Usan near Montrose.”
Really ?
yawn
Hunt saboteurs don’t hang around people’s houses. They monitor people when they are hunting and have you ever thought why they wear a balaclava? If hunt saboteurs were unmasked the hunt support put dead animals outside their houses, slash their tyres put bricks through their window and I’m speaking of things I’ve seen. The fb pages were they unmask sabs and find out every detail about you. Yes people in balaclava’s are scary but what would you do if the police aren’t on your side and you have no other protection. They were asked to go to gardens town due to the fact other animal activists who where there, were being intimidated and threatened by usan. You see usan don’t say anything to the men they wait and only shout things at the girls I wasn’t allowed to walk around gardens town on my own in case usan hurt me. Hunt sabs were needed for every animal activists protection. If you don’t want them there tell usan to stop their threatening behaviour
i don’t see any part of this article saying what trump did for education. “Trump University” sounds too good to be true, yes a university to educate young students on how to make it big.
Turns out it was a scam/fraud and that he was operating an “illegal education institution”.
http://jewishbusinessnews.com/2015/04/23/ny-attorney-general-schneiderman-to-face-off-against-billionaire-donald-trump-at-trial/
Paul well spotted! Thank you! How could I have forgotten the illegal university? Isn’t it amazing how you can run a fraudulent / illegal business in the USA, but be welcome in Scotland with open arms?
The only people to welcome trump with open arms are those who will make money out of him. And i’m sure there will be alot of people hoping to make some money out of his developments, even some local companies. I for one would boycott local companies that have dealings with trump.
Good point. It may be the case that many of the security and construction workers on site are not local; but there is a bread making business that may be a supplier, and BrewDog showed up and sold beer at the Trump open day. I think it’s important to try and educate the businesses. We’ll see which ones continue. If you want to boycott the biggest local business that has done all it can to support Trump and done all it could have done to insult, discredit and/or ignore the facts and the people who stand up to Trump, I suggest stop buying the Press & Journal and the Evening Express – neither one of which has yet to acknowledge in print (to the best of my knowledge) that Trump’s VP Sarah Malone is the wife of Aberdeen Journal’s supremo Damian Bates.
And as if things couldn’t get any worse, they do. Trump just says all the wrong stuff.
Univision is dropping its partnership with the Miss Universe Organization over part-owner Donald Trump’s “insulting remarks” about Mexican immigrants made during his presidential campaign announcement earlier this month.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/univision-drops-miss-universe-over-trumps-insulting-immigration-remarks
Complaining of US doing deals with Mexico saying they are losing US jobs, funny for a guy who gets china to make alot of his merchandise.
I realize that they live in a remote area, and that there isn’t much that grows there. It is a local hunt, and the food is distributed for free among the Faroese people. It’s sustainable- even the IUCN has said so. Less than 1% of the estimated local population (100,000) is hunted each year (annual average catch is 850-950). The way the Faroese hunt these cetaceans isn’t putting them at risk of extinction. They wait for the whales to come to them, not actively seek out whales. If fewer whales come to them, the less they hunt. They could eat foods from faraway lands and add to the pollution and decrease of other, more endangered species, but chose to eat local.
As long as “civilized” nations continue to eat squid/octopus, pig, and kill crows, I see nothing wrong with eating pilot whales. Whole shoals of squids are fished up, perhaps they are losing culture. Murders of crows are well… murdered, maybe there is a lost tradition of tool usage there. Pigs are tortured for their meat, yet “civilized” people call the Faroese inhumane?
Who’s to say that other animals are intelligent? Maybe a cow is intelligent. Do I think people will test this? No, because beef is a staple for most people. People only want to believe convenient things. Believing cetaceans are intelligent is convenient to the western world, because most western people do not eat cetaceans. It’s also convenient to protest the hunting of cetaceans, because cetacean hunters are in the minority. Pork eaters, crow shooters and calamari enjoyers are in the majority.
The ignorance of current news this poster displays is staggering, as is the lack of empathy with living creatures and their capacity for thought and feeling – long since documented. I think the poster will find that the cetaceans (highly intelligent, social, family-orientated mammals) are specifically driven to the knife-wielding crowds. It is not sustainable; it is barbarism, and as all the footage shows, the perpetrators revel in the blood orgy. I personally feel no animal should be in the food chain; but many that go in are pre-stunned; I do not know pigs are tortured as a matter of course for meat. The well-documented Faroese torture of the cetaceans they kill after chasing them to their shores is long, prolonged, and wholly unnecessary. ‘Who’s to say that other animals are intelligent?’ – plenty of scientists, researchers and campaigners. Rarely have I seen such illogic in a single post; I think this is a new benchmark. Mr Shea does seem to like to court controversy, perhaps giving him any attention at all is wrong. But I do wonder what motivates people to write things they know are easily disproved, and to make sweeping generalisations and analogies that serve only to discredit their own capacity for logic
The ignorance of current news this poster displays is staggering I’ve taken a great interest since The Discovery Channel’s “Whale Wars: Viking Shores” Sea Shepherd attempted to engage in a confrontation with the locals and that too never happened. The shot secret video and tried to antagonize locals and police.
Sustainable: Conserving an ecological balance by avoiding depletion of natural resources.
Figures taken from North Atlantic Marine Mammal Commission
Population estimate 440,000 – 1,370,000
“An indication of long term historical trends in the abundance of pilot whales around the Faroe Islands can be gained from analysis of catch data. Catch records from the Faroes go as far back as 1584, and are unbroken since 1709 (Bloch 1994). Catch, corrected for hunting effort, shows a cyclic pattern with a period of 100-120 years, with peaks in catch occurring in 1720-1730, 1840-1850, and 1935-1985(Hoydal and Lastein 1993). There is no long-term indication of declining or increasing abundance over the period (Bloch and Lastein 1995). The local availability of pilot whales to the Faroese may be related to changes in sea temperature and the abundance of their favored prey (Hoydal and Lastein1993).”
The kill at the end is as quick and clean as any animal being slaughtered. The Faroese don’t actively hunt whales out with close waters they wait until the whales come close to certain beaches, in fact so years some islands don’t catch any whales as the don’t come close enough.
The reason and motivation behind it is simply to gather food. No fun, sport, rite of manhood or anything else. There is little to no agriculture or suitable land to raise cattle so the Faroese have always relied on the surrounding sea as a source of fish, seabirds, and the pilot whales If the slaughter and consumption of pilot whales is ethically on the same level as slaughter and consumption of beef or poultry, then the former is clearly to be preferred to the latter, since there is no environmental pollution created in the “harvesting” of pilot whales. If Faroese people were to eat, say, chicken wings or lasagnas instead of pilot whale, the meaty ingredients would have to be imported from abroad, which would contaminate the environment. In fact, it’s probably better to compare the grind to the hunting of local game in other countries, since there are farms, antibiotics, relatively cramped quarters and so on involved in the production of beef, poultry, pork, etc.
You may well believe that no animal should be in the food chain, but the vast majority of the population disagree and have done for millennia. I like to know where my meat comes from and actively research how it’s been reared and how it’s been dispatched. I guess that comes from one side of my family being farmers and the other side fishermen
Mr Shea does seem to like to court controversy, no I just have a very different view to life than you do, unlike my views are consistent you judge salmon net fishers yet support one against Tump, you frequently advertise Brew Dog but do not condemn they’re partnership with Trump.
On the 18th of July just under ½ population of the world will sit down and feast of meat killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe. Animals must be alive and healthy at the time of slaughter and all blood is drained from the carcass, not one activist, vegan, vegetarian, or attention seeking celebrity will condemn this why?
For anyone interested, Jim quotes from “North Atlantic Marine Mammal Commission” – which is a pro-whaling organisation. There are many papers on its website, which talk about harvesting (ie hunting and killing) marine mammals. The website has a nice euphamism for the animals which are chased by ships, injured by harpoons but which manage to escape; they call this ‘struck and lost’. At least they admit that pilot whales are very social animals – the acknowledgement that the animals are intelligent, live in ordered societal groups is welcome. The members of this outfit include Faroese representation you will not be surprised to learn.
Jim says the Faroese grind is simply to catch food, and that ‘No fun, sport, rite of manhood or anything else’. Perhaps he’s not seen the photographs of the blood soaked children sitting on the animals as they slowly die (they are driven ashore, exhausted, suffering and suffocating, they are hacked to pieces) and there is indeed a blood orgy which the Faroese claim is their cultural right. It is this culture that is one of the mainstays of their pro hunting argument, which is to be found all over the news. Perhaps there is nothing abhorrent in this to Jim; perhaps he takes his family members young and old to slaughterhouses to sit on animals about to be killed.
Jim doesn’t seem to acknowledge that a vegetarian lifestyle is the choice of a huge number of the world’s population; I don’t know why he thinks that not one ‘activist, vegan, vegetarian or attention-seeking celebrity will condemn’ live slaughter. Again, the fact that people who care about live slaughter is demonstrated all over the news and social media.
As to BrewDog, again, they sold beer at Trump’s open day; I immediately wrote to them, wrote a piece elsewhere in AV explaining why not to do business with the man. If you find that piece, you’ll see a comment from me about who should really be censured over its support for Trump: Aberdeen Journals Ltd, which to this day print pro Trump pieces, have poured scorn on Trump detractors, and have not yet once as far as I’m aware told its readership of the blatant conflict of interest it has: AJL’s Damian Bates is married to Trump’s VP Sarah Malone. But this is a digression.
Let’s for a minute assume (wrongly) that whales are abundant, that they are not dying in little-understood mass strandings, that their habitat is safe, and that our navy is not blowing them up. For some of us it is ethically and morally unjustifiable to kill wild animals (often after long, grueling, exhausting chases) – be it the fox, the baby seal, the seal or the whale.
Finally, whaling is not allowed in EU member countries. Denmark’s ridiculous protection of the Faroes (it still impounds a Sea Shepherd vessel) is at odds with law. On the subject of law, the Faroe Islands have enacted a new pro-whaling law which means anyone has to report any sitings of whales from something like two nautical miles offshore. This is a far cry from saying the whales happily come close to the islands, they are driven there.
All I can say to close is that all whaling is morally indefensible, and more power to Sea Shepherd.
Well said Bill, great read.
I too have often pondered why animal rights activists never complain about Halal killing methods, it’s cruel and barbaric, it’s also being done these days on an industrial scale. It should be outlawed in this Country.
As for whales, just big fish really and I love a fish supper, if the Faroese people want to eat them more power to them, my biggest concern is the cost to the environment of these Sea shepherd boats, they’re also very unsafe and endanger other boats, they too should be outlawed, the reckless manner they posed when dealing with Japan’s whale research boats could have cost human life.
Interesting that Brewdog supply Trump, hahaha, that’s a bloody nose for a certain someone.
I’m a little perturbed that the author here resorted to personal abuse of a poster who offered up a differing viewpoint to the writer, the header here quite clearly states “Aberdeen Voice accepts and welcomes contributions from all sides/angles pertaining to any issue”, if that is indeed the case why the abuse??
If I dared call anyone ignorant it would never be posted, the double standards are astounding, the author and her friends have free reign but don’t allow anyone who oppose their view the same rights.
As someone who had their facebook page poured over and stuff from it used to attack me I now don’t post using my real name, surely in the interests of free speech and common decency people should be allowed to post viewpoints without being attacked.
Aberdeen Voice, you’re having a laugh, you’re not the voice of me that’s for sure and I am born and bred here unlike the author.
For those not familiar with the ‘Old Susannah’ satirical column I write, Bill is our most prolific heckler.
Perhaps he can spell out what ‘abuse’ is taking place here? As to using the word ‘ignorant’ as a description of someone who claims the Faroese don’t revel in the gory, violent death of the whales they herd ashore and hack up, it is a completely justified description. There are mountains of footage, photographs and eyewitness accounts of how the people involved not only revel in the bloodbath, but they take their children down as well, perching them, cheering and shouting atop the dead and dying whales.
I am still not sure who Bill is; so I don’t know what he’s talking about with regard to his Facebook page. But here’s a hint: a Facebook page is visible to the world at large depending on the settings you use, so if there are things on your page you could be ‘attacked’ over, perhaps it’s best not to publicise them.
Free speech comes with responsibilities, and opinions that are expressed which are devoid of any fact, such as saying the Faroese must kill whales, that they don’t enjoy it, and that whales are just big fish (? aren’t they teaching biology in school any longer?) are subject to being rebutted. Where someone displays ignorance, it is not a crime to call them ignorant and explain why. In fact, it would be curtailing my freedom of expression to stop me from doing so. I don’t know why you don’t think people including me are also campaigning against Halal slaughter; I am, many are. This was another reason I found the other poster’s remarks on the subject of celebrities to be worthy of of being called ignorant. But thank you Bill though; it’s always a pleasure and a good laugh having yet another one of your diatribes against me.
PS As to BrewDog selling beer at one Trump event, they have joined a host of local suppliers which have done so. See the Old Susannah column about Trump for my detailed thoughts. BrewDog have had an email from me about this. The real local supplier that is propping up Trump and villifying people is of course the Press & Journal.
PS. No, I wasn’t born in Scotland. But only someone with Xenophobia would think this worthy of mentioning. Perhaps Bill will explain why my birthplace is somehow relevant? Otherwise it just looks a bit like prejudice.
‘Whales are just big fish, really’ – well, I’ve heard it all now. Might as well say that we humans are just fish out of water!
Clearly the actions of the Faroese constitute crimes against wildlife. This is, in my view, hardcore crime buried deep in some persistent (but hateful) cultural habits or beliefs. To them, and others,who commit these atrocities, it is a viable sport. They know what they are doing, they want to do it and they dont think people should stop them.
I was not going to reply to this thread anymore as obviously some people have such strong emotions that sensible reasoning/ debate would be pointless. I did and still do support Sea Shepherd in their fight against commercial whaling particularly the constant war with the Japanese in the Antarctic. However I would advise people to watch Whale Wars Viking Shores a program that massively back fired for Sea Shepard, and as such they have never filmed Whale wars in the Faros since.
People with no compassion for wildlife have no soul. The ignorance to think a whale is a fish or that the final kill is quick leaves me very sad for anyone deluded enough to believe this. Whales are very intelligent animals and feel pain in the same way we do. On-line papers such as The Aberdeen Voice has brought to light many forms of cruelty that should shame us as the human race.
I’ve never seen a whale do the Times crossword!!
How do you know they’re intelligent?
They quite often beach themselves and die, not the sharpest fish in the sea, cod never do that.
PS – NBC has dropped The Apprentice and Miss Universe, two Trump vehicles. They were less than pleased with his somewhat prejudicial recent remarks.
What makes me sad Bert is someone who thinks they are righteous enough to comment on animal welfare, then buy a chicken from the supermarket for £2.99. What life do you think these chickens had so a profit can still be made at 2.99? Before you judge others look at your own eating habits.
We were born with incisors, meant for eating meat, one reason why we’re top of the food chain, to some eating whale is akin to us eating cattle and pigs, who are we too butt in on their way of life?
One responder here even owns a restaurant, it serves meat and fish on a huge scale, why not condemn her for having such an establishment? Why are these sustainable whales any different from hunting a killing a shoal of haddock?
Weird double standards.
IMO You case your opinions on how nice looking the animal is, be it deer, foxes. whales, no one cares about slugs being murdered in gardens every night on a huge scale or the fish of our seas. I love all animals but know I’m designed to be a meat eater so do, I’d eat any edible animal, that would include the likes of dog if I was in a Country where this practise was part of the culture.
The heading of this article is No Dialogue Possible in the Faroe Islands. It seems reasonable dialogue is not possible with people who when faced with the facts continue to support the unsupportable.
This link is for a new release from Sea Shepherd with a harrowing video. The torture and slow death of the animals, long acknowledged by experts as highly intelligent, social animals is well documented. http://www.seashepherdglobal.org/news-and-commentary/news/graphic-video-and-images-of-pilot-whale-slaughter-in-the-faroe-islands.html Here is a quote: “Ripping fetuses from the wombs of the mothers, mutilating the bodies, hacking out the teeth, having children play and and mutilate the bodies, carving numbers into their flesh, stabbing with knives, ripping their flesh with boat props, decapitating them, stressing the animals with bang poles and forcing these gentle intelligent social sentient beings to witness the slaughter of their family members around them in their own blood before they are slain is viciously barbaric and has no place in any civilized society.”
My goodness. I didn’t know that you owned a restaurant Suzanne. I dont,so must be you! But as I posted on AV FB page the ‘great apostle of the Philistines’ has certainly emerged from his box along with,it appears his side-kick.
Ah …. hello again Bill … you never did get back to me about that reading exercise (Comments Old Susannah #177) ….. Oh well, still time … if you didn’t see my comment, go have a look, and as you read, write down the first letter of each sentence ( hint … it will be a capital letter).
Get back to me if you have any problems.
I completely understand that many folk will be horrified by the annual dolphin harvest but wonder if any self respecting local law enforcer would really pressure the annual influx of tourists to report the position of whales and dolphins.
Sea Shepherd has laudable goals however this “rampted-up” piece does them little credit.
Duncan, your doubts are something at odds with the facts; the newly-created laws are fairly clear – or perhaps you think they were written with no intent to be used. It is clear this new law is aimed at Sea Shepherd and other groups and individuals who want to protect animals from the slow and terrifying fate of being herded to shore to be killed in a gory bloodbath with people cheering. The law certainly implies that anyone who sees whales could be in legal trouble for not reporting same.
Yesterday the Faroese issued a press release which attempts to allay concerns tourists legitimately have. It is however far from reassuring: “The penalty of 2 years in prison may apply where the breach is intentional or due to gross negligence and has led to injury to people or whales, or damage to the environment or material property – or where there was immediate danger of such injury or damage. The penalty of 2 years in prison may also apply where the person in question has previously been convicted of breaching the Grindalógin. This statement has been updated on July 2nd 2015 Contact Páll Nolsøe, communication advisor, for more information: tel. +298 551028, palln@tinganes.fo”
It seems to be a law applying to everyone from tourist to people actively trying to stop the slaughter. Since health experts advise eating no more than 4kg of cetacean meat per year (or none if you are pregnant), there is absolutely no need to kill all the animals that are killed.
The press release is hardly reassuring and clarifications on several points have been requested. How do you prove or disprove a tourist was grosslly negligent? Will all tourists be issued with pamphlets with their new responsibilities spelled out? Would love to see one.
Finally, I don’t see anything in the article that is ‘ramped-up’ or a discredit to Sea Shepherd- so please do explain what you mean with specific examples.
You have a teenage boyfriend! 😮
go on. Give me a clue- who is it?
I get it now; Bill’s apparently gone into the ‘PS’ part of this piece, read about WHEN my teenage boyfriend was hit by a car, and decided this was a recent event. Very witty Bill; I get it now
There are a number of positive reasons why I recommend Aberdeen Voice to so many of my friends and acquaintances, not least the informative,witty and thought – provoking satirical columns and convenient local alternative to the less than scintillating output offered by a local press generally considered to be more than a little influenced by friends and relatives in low places.
Sometimes, however, in moments of potential personal crises for close friends, when they may, for whatever reason, be suffering from flagging self esteem, intellectual self – doubt or indeed a general malaise characterised by a mistaken sense of inferiority, I humbly suggest Aberdeen Voice as an alternative to counselling, psychotherapy or serial sadistic fantasy featuring Donald Trump. The main reason for this is the often regular contributions from one particular correspondent who, by pretending to demonstrate an unimaginable and totally unrealistic level of inanity, imbecility and ignorance, usually goes a long way to convincing my friends that there is always someone worse off than themselves.
I could not possibly bring myself to try to identify the correspondent concerned, partly due to their understandable humility and desire for anonymity, but I really would like to thank him/her for their valuable work and for helping so many people.
Congratulations to Aberdeen Voice on five years of excellence and for long may it continue!
thank you for the kind words. Nicely said.
You may be right Suzanne. We appear to have a history of disagreeing however. Best perhaps let the matter rest.
Seems a very good reason not to visit the Faroes to me. If they find tourism dropping off, they will know what to blame.
Does the denburn run into westburn park
this may help; http://mcjazz.f2s.com/14thCentWaterSupply.htm or try the wikipedia entry.
I’m designing a drinks dispenser for methadone.
First para seems a bit misleading, Suzanne. The Conservatives decided to abandon their proposed amendment to the Hunting Act of 2004, partly because the 56 SNP MPs threatened to vote against it even though the Act applies only to England, separate legislation being in force in Scotland. The SNP took the view that the proposed England-only amendment might somehow affect Scotland, in some unspecified way, thereby establishing an interesting precedent, i.e., that England-only legislation is a legitimate matter of concern for Scottish MPs (SNP and other) at Westminster, even though Scotland-only legislation is the exclusive concern of MSPs at Holyrood.
Tally ho! Alex, thanks for picking up on a error now fixed: the SNP decided of course not to go along with the Conservatives, and now people who want their traditional right restored to have foxes ripped to shreds by dogs have been disappointed. It’s as if tradition was not as important as the humane treatment of animals.
I have just stumbled on this article. Members of the Rural were not consulted regarding these changes and you will find that since the article was published there has been a huge backlash from members.
Really pleased “A Dangerous Game” will be shown on the BBC. Friends in the US who are no fans of The Donald were horrified but not surprised by what they saw in “You’ve Been Trumped”.
Another superb article, Suzanne, thank you – despite it almost being an “I chuckled so much I nearly spat my coffee over the keyboard” situation!
I’d love someone to tell me that I am not imagining that Peglar’s Corner was an alternative meeting place to the monkey house for dating couples in the mid to late 50s. I may be aul, but I’m nae feel !!
What does that mean?
I have been following this issue with great interest as I and four colleagues were sued for £20 million by a golf estate developer who pushed through his development in a rural area next to a nature conservancy in South Africa some years ago. He lost the case. Afterwards I saw a programme on the Menie golf course and contacted Mr Ford, who sent me a brilliant summary of the mess created by Trump. Hats off to all of you who held fast.
Thanks for your reply. I see manners are not lost on you lol. Out of all the industry you mention how many are still providing employment? Apart from the university and the hospital which every city has.
I think you have clearly missed the point. I’m not slagging off Aberdeen I’m merely pointing out that the tourism industry here could do a lot better. I’ve chosen to live here as I love Scotland and would like to see the city improve and provide jobs for our younger generation.
We can have highland games without horses. We don’t need to use animals to entertain us or to pull carts any longer. Is this really necessary? Being around loud noise is of no benefit to any animal, and some find the loudness painful; some are frightened and stressed. Many people are trying to ban the unnecessary use of animals for our amusement and entertainment in circuses and film. I’d put this on the list as well.
congratulations and best of luck!
agree with you – but must go much further. We must treat people seeking asylum here with more compassion and dignity, there are people living in detention centres here who need help now. And if any politicians really wanted to attack the problem at the roots, can we please stop arming despots? http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/17/uk-sells-arms-to-worlds-w_n_3608760.html
Thank you so much Suzanne 🙂 x
Who cares what fluff Alex Salmond has to say about this service, why not post an actual link so we can actually check it out..? Lazy and not very useful article
I take your point re the link Martin, an oversight on my part, but have to report that it took me less than 30 seconds, using keywords ‘Ofcom’, ‘mobile’ and ‘coverage’ to find the link. So for all those who have less than 30 seconds to spare, or has difficulty searching, here is the URL …. I will add it to the article.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/mobile-coverage
Hello,
My family and I attended the games again this year and had a fantastic time as always. Thank you.
On the way home to Alford we came across a beret/ToS in the road and picked it up.
It’s dark blue/black with a red bobble’ on top and has a silver cap badge showing a Stag emblem and the motto ‘Si Je Peux’ – A long shot I know but, ”if we can”, we should reunite it with its owner – Any ideas?
Regards, Simon Patten
shared this on the games’ facebook page; very good of you to take the trouble
There’s a word for this sort of thing. It’s about time the owners at Northfield open up the OED under “H” and read the meaning of the word “hypocrisy”. NO decent animal sanctuary would ever condone breeding, let alone breeding animals for sale that are going to be fattened for slaughter. Whether they are selling the animals directly to be slaughtered or sold to others before being slaughtered makes no difference. They must know what is going to happen so the blood is ultimately on their hands.
to that they would say our farm is completely different to our animal rescue work. Others feel differently
Excellent piece as ever Suzanne. Sometimes the script from Steve Shaw reads like something out of Little Britain – “Ah but, no but, ah……….” while trying to avoid giving a less than straight answer.
I think the important thing that seems to be getting forgotten here is the 6 ponies which are in need of rescue. Since an offer to cover all the costs involved to collect, passport, deal with all veterinary, dental and farrier problems transport them to a specialist Equine rescue centre willing to offer them a safe and friendly environment for the rest of their lives was turned down on the 13th of August, these ponies, we are assured, are safe but waiting for Northfield to raise several thousand pounds to proceed. There have been no further updates on their condition, no photos, no word of any kind on their present housing. I personally have to voice my concerns over the situation. This is not the way animal welfare should work.
Keith Marley, Director, The New Arc
Hi l was wondering what ur rates are for recording my son is looking to record some original material
Regards jake 07546455687
Dear Jake, We will pass your details on to the recording studio.
Hi, I am interested in doing the volunteer training with yourselves. Please can you tell me whether it is every weekend, for 10 weeks? Is it all day on a Saturday and Sunday please? If not, how many hours each day please? Also, I live just outside Ellon, so would I be able to give people help in my area at the end of it please? How many hours a week would I be expected to volunteer for after the training? Could it be an evening? Please advise. Thanks.
Dear Penny, Best you contact the counselling service directly; the details are in the article. best of luck
Hi Penny
Please feel free to send me an e mail at acis.manager@mhaberdeen.org.uk
I think you would find the Open Evening very helpful to attend as many of these questions would be answered there.
Kind Regards
Christine
We had the chance to alter all this at the Independence referendum last year but we blew it big style. All this revenue could have been thwarted away from Westminster and put in Aberdeen/Scotland’s coffers but the NO voters let us all down on governing ourselves in my opinion. (moderated)
You should count yourself lucky we voted No. Look at the price of oil now. An ‘independent’ Scotland, basing its entire economy (as it was) on oil would be bankrupt. Greece is in a better state than an oil-dependent, ‘independent’ Scotland would be. (moderated)
When did Scotland base it’s entire economy on oil? I think you will find that was only the media who was saying that.
There are a lot more that Scotland has to offer than oil, but the point Les was getting at was if we were ruling ourselves, we could have set up the oil fund in the first place. The price of oil will go back up once the Saudi’s and Americans have stopped pricking around with the prices and Russia.
The Shetlands, Orkney and Isle of Man can all negotiate better terms because they are the only ports/land mass around that area. If Aberdeen had tried to do the same, the Oil industry would have likely gone somewhere else (Dundee, Peterhead, Cromarty), not a great comparison.
a good job independence didn’t go through! The oil revenues for Scotland are £7bn down this year already, and now rising unemployment due to shut downs offshore and onshore. I live in Aberdeen and know 8 of my neighbours well – 6 of them are either laid off or about to be laid off. There’s a crisis here but no-one cares
Your absolutely spot on with your last part Rah, too many friends and family are losing their jobs and who is doing anything about it. Firstly yes I am pro-independence but that’s not the point, the point is as highlighted again the North sea has generated over £300 Bn for the UK Government, now the industry and Aberdeen has managed to sustain it’s self due to the oil, but now we need help and we don’t have the oil to help the city or jobs the UK Government have left us high and dry.
I know Scotland would need to borrow to make up the short fall, but hey guess what so do the UK currently, the main focus should be on the future. The Scottish Government are doing all they can currently to help the situation only the UK can put more money in or even better change the Taxation in the short term for the oil companies.
The main thing for me all of this highlights is regardless of which government the oil money has been quandered, with nothing saved for situations like this. If this was our personal finances we would only have our self to blame, so why should the UK Government be any different. I am more convinced than ever that Scotland future and the future of our resources would be far better in the hands of Scotland and the people of Scotland.
There are no Broad Shoulders to be had.
a good job independence didn’t go through! The oil revenues for Scotland are £7bn down this year already, and now rising unemployment due to shut downs offshore and onshore. I live in Aberdeen and know 8 of my neighbours well – 6 of them are either laid off or about to be laid off. There’s a crisis here but no-one cares
Scotland is Central Belt Centric and always will be as that is where the majority of voters live. As a consequence Aberdeen has frequently received a much smaller share of the Block Grant than many other authorities.
The exception is the SNP dominated Dundee City Council where vast sums are being spent on large infrastructure projects.
However the above situation has, in my view been compounded by the tribal politics within Aberdeen Council and disastrous planning decisions, aka Union Square Development which has almost paralysed Harbour traffic and revenues. Look to the growth of Montrose and Peterhead Harbours for comparison.
We must also realise the current oil price is driven partly by global politics and ageing, inefficient North Production facilities. So let’s stop whinging about what might of been and get behind lowering production costs, or stay we are and lose everything.
Minor point of correction/clarification: “When the Scottish government turned up in the 90s, nothing much changed.”
Readers will know that the Scottish Parliament did not reconvene until 1997, at which time the ruling Labour/Liberal coalition was not styled as the Scottish Government but the Scottish Executive.
After victory in 2007 the SNP ruling minority renamed themselves the Scottish Government but this name was not recognised in law until 2012.
hi this is something i would be really interested in, i am already a volunteer for the companions scheme and would like to learn more, but i work offshore on a 2 on 2 off rota is this impossible?
Hi Vikki
If you are able to attend the Open Evening at ACIS I think you would find it very useful.
A shift pattern does make things more difficult in terms of attendance but it depends if your time off fits in with our training weekends.
Please e mail me at acis.manager@mhaberdeen.org.uk if you need further advice. Thanks for your interest.
Kind Regards
Christine
To the Aberdeen Voice and Suzanne Kelly Reporter for the Aberdeen Voice In response to your article published about our Northfield Animal Haven and myself Kelly Cable.
I find your article very opinionated as to your own personal beliefs of being a vegan, i.e. a non-meat eater and your presumptions are a bit ignorant from fact.
Suzanne Kelly you have never met me, have never been to my premises and have never seen the animals in my care. When you and Wendy Valentine first contacted me was back in March of this year when it was on my page about my own personal not rescue sheep were given birth, this is where the vendetta comes in, nothing to do with the formation of a group called REACH. We raise sheep on the farm which we sell later on in the year, we maybe have 20 out of the 4 million born in Scotland every year, the way we raise our sheep is giving them the best care they need, they also have freedom, now at that time of year when there are lambs here our supporters come along and feed the lambs, meet the sheep and learn about caring for animals in the right way. WE HAVE NEVER AND NEVER WOULD BREED FROM A RESCUE ANIMAL. You have stated that a certain picture containing a lamb and chickens, that these animals were destined for barbecue, where do you get this from, the lamb in the picture is an orphan lamb called cutie that we bought she is still here, the chickens in the picture are either still here or have been rehomed, again which we have already told you, our chickens and ducks are sold to people with their own flocks not for the barbecue as you put it.
With regards to your statement about other charities offering a home for the Shetland Ponies and your presumptions as to why I am not a registered Charity but a registered Non Profit Organisation.
Yes an offer was made by Hillside who are NOT a registered charity and Blaikewell who have recently became a registered charity to take these ponies, but Northfield Animal Haven was asked to help after larger charities were contacted, now the person who asked for our help has been a supporter of ours since day one, 3 years ago and knows our constitution and how our rehoming works, not only that how can you state that these sanctuaries are doing it for free, do they not have to pay for horse passports or vets so what will they do, they will fundraise exactly the same as I am doing, now this brings me to your presumption that I have something to hide with being a non profit and not a charity, the same rules and laws apply to a non profit as it does to a charity, so do a bit more research on how a non profit organisation works. When you do a go fund me page it tells you to double your target that is needed, which I have done I have also listed what needs to be done when the ponies arrive, I have also stated that donations can be made direct to the vet, so your presumption that we are in this for financial gain is wrong. Your next presumption was that if I didn’t raise the money then it would be too bad for the ponies, which is a pretty nasty presumption to make and couldn’t be further from the truth.
When you first contacted me I was fundraising then for help to save Shetland Ponies, which are here, even though the target was never reached we still took them in. Now between March and now we have taken in many animals that we haven’t held fundraisers for and you have said nothing, now we start a new fundraiser to help more Shetland ponies and you start with your attacks again. So I assume that all our good work and what we have done in the past 3 years means nothing to you nor does the animals that we still have in our care, you know the rescues, the horses the pigs the rabbits. The whole article stinks of “yellow” journalism, which is what closed the News of The World down, In my opinion this is what should happen to yourselves because of the way you are portraying my sanctuary and myself.
[ Please note. Although the above would normally be subject to moderation on account that it in part breaches our publication criteria, it has been decided that it be published in it’s entirity, unaltered, as it has already been published elsewhere online, exactly as above, therefore moderation would be a futile excercise. – Moderator ]
I find the idea of running a business selling animals on for slaughter alongside an animal rescue(which aims to save animals from those very situations she is putting her own livestock in) a baffling contradiction of morals and highly inethical. Not only this, but to use profits from animals sold on for slaughter to fund an animal rescue?
Whether or not she sells them directly for slaughter does not excuse her; she is fully aware of where those animals will eventually end up(and I very much doubt it will be with a kind hearted shepherd who out of the goodness of his heart decided to buy up flocks of sheep and keep them on to frolick blissfully to the end of their days!).
Now there is no particular issue with a farmer running a sheep farm alone. But you cannot run both at the same time. The purpose of each of these operations are completely opposite and couldn’t be more conflicting.
As to the comment about Hillside having some sort of ‘vendetta’ against Northfield..perhaps they also strongly disagree with Northfields contradicting ethics. However to refuse help which could potentially save the lives of the ponies they claim to care about seems rather petty and self serving indeed. It seems to be saying ‘If we can’t have them, then no one can’.
Running a rescue is an admirable thing to do and I applaud anyone who takes on such a worthwhile enterprise, but in this case this person is going about it in entirely the wrong way – and whats worse, she just doesn’t seem to see it. I think she really needs to sit down and think about where her priorities lie.
Hi Kelly, as a confirmed carnivore, I felt it incumbent upon me to give a ‘non vegan’ response to your entertaining post. Just like Suzanne, I have never met you, but then again I never met Mother Theresa….but I have a fairly good idea of what she was all about! I really don’t see why you think it important to emphasise how many sheep are bred for meat every year? I feel you are trying to muddy the waters. The point that has been raised is that you seem to be openly proud of the fact that you fund your animal rescue centre by breeding and selling other animals. Duh! Don’t you get it? Conflict of interests?
At least you confirm that your chickens and ducks are ‘sold’ to people. (our chickens and ducks are sold to people with their own flocks not for the barbecue as you put it.) although the fact is that if you ‘sell’ any livestock you relinquish any rights as to its further use…..Hmm, That will be a bit like the lambs or highland cows you raise that you don’t slaughter…you just sell them to people who ‘might’?. WOW! This is the sort of justification that people use when they sell their kids! ‘How were we to know they would end up as sex slaves’. Sorry, but thats a complete and utter ‘OPT OUT’. Yet again, another attempt to muddy the waters. You breed, you raise, you sell for profit…end of! You don’t get to choose when the animals concerned are auctioned at a meat market!
You seem to have had a problem in the past with Hillside who you emphasise ‘are NOT a registered charity’ but your only excuse for refusing Blaikieswells is that they have only recently become a registered charity? This seems a bit contradictory? You seem to be making a point that Hillside is not a registered charity….just like yourself? and yet you ignore Blaikieswells who ARE a registered charity, but according to you have ‘only recently became a registered charity’. You need to check your facts there chuck because they have been a registered charity for about 20 years!
A wee bit of a change of story regarding your comments about what you refer to as ‘other’ charities made me laugh. They are not ‘other’ charities! They are charities…you are NOT! You originally posted that ‘All other charities refused to help’ but you have now changed it to ‘Northfield Animal Haven was asked to help after larger charities were contacted’. Yet your next comment states ‘the person who asked for our help has been a supporter of ours since day one, 3 years ago and knows our constitution and how our rehoming works’ How does that work then? Perhaps you should post your ‘constitution’ on line so we can all see it?
You go on to say ‘not only that how can you state that these sanctuaries are doing it for free, do they not have to pay for horse passports or vets so what will they do, they will fundraise exactly the same as I am doing’. FFS! They offered to rescue the ponies, take them in and offer them lifelong care because they had the facilities and funding in place to do so immediately! Of course they had to pay for vets and passports etc. Nothing is for ‘free’ except the claim you make on twitter that your own care and love is for free…
I am sure there may be a few questions about your claims that ‘being a non profit and not a charity’ that has the same rules and laws applied as if you were a charity’ may well elicit a response from those concerned, so I will hold back on commenting on what I consider an amazing and outright misleading claim!
The rest of your post quite frankly is just blah followed by more blah. Muddy waters and more attempts to divert attention from the initial concerns voiced in this article followed by your comparison to ‘The News of the World’ .. AV …Is this a compliment or slander? lol
FYI most rescues that refer to themselves as sanctuaries offer homes for life. Your ‘sanctuary’ seems to be a contradiction itself because it is based round rehoming animals?
Then again your comments are full of contradictions from what I have read on your own facebook pages….That is if you haven’t already removed the posts which you don’t like which you have been quick to do so of late.
Oh and just out of curiosity, why is that you have now covered up the SSPCA logo on the bottom right of your farm sign? Is this an accident or perhaps you were told to remove it because you have no right to claim any connection with them. Perhaps you could explain?
I think you should get all the facts before posting this!. Half of the things ive read here are wrong and missinformation. Your speaking about a previous partner you know nothing about and the dates are wrong also!. It seems you are set out to destory someone who has saved hundreds of animals. No one that wrote these articles has came and seen the farm dont you think you should come and look around?. And putting her full address on it wrong it is compromising her saftey!.
Aberdeen Voice has documentation for the article. If you would care to explain what you believe is wrong that would be helpful. You may want to do an internet search on Northfield; you would find the address is widely publicised. If anyone is concerned about safety they should contact the police, although it is hard to see where the perceived danger is.
Well the 2009 date is wrong to start with!. Im her daughter believe me i know all the facts of this and you sadly do not. I would like to know what documentaion you have and how you recieved this?. This is a vendetta nothing more. Youve not once came to the farm or acknowledged the fact of how many animals my mum has saved, she does a brilliant job and i couldnt be prouder!!
I have seen a ‘determination of trustees remuneration’ which has the date of 2009 on it; it covers a period in 2008. I will be happy to change to precise bankruptcy dates when you supply with backup documentation if this is of crucial importance to you. Is that the most important thing you have come away with from the article?
As to asking how I received the documentation (a large and growing collection), I think you will find that writers keep their sources confidential. I can tell you though that there are now so many people with serious concerns about past financial issues that I’m being called to a meeting with them.
I have some questions for you. Why did your mother try to claim her signature on a loan document was not her signature? Was that an honest thing to do? Would you expect that kind of behaviour from someone seeking donations? Do you accept that some people have been misled into donating to you because they believed you were saving farm animals not sending them to market from reading your sign and your web appeals? Do you understand why people have ethical concerns about breeding for sale animals which will undoubtedly end up in the food chain and using their lives to pay for rescuing other animals? Why should some animals be saved and other animal should be sold – what do you do to determine which animals deserve sale? Would you personally donate money to someone who operates like this, when they also have past form for trying to get out of a loan agreement? Why did your mother try to deny getting this sizeable loan (in part from pensioners) – a loan which has not been returned? And one more question for now – has anyone connected with your operations been involved in any financial scandal or fraud in the past? I look forward to the answers.
I have never made any assertion about how animals are treated by the way. If I’ve stopped any further people from being mislead about what your operation is like, then I couldn’t be prouder.
More gutter filth from a gutter “publication”, whom I had never even heard of until two weeks ago !
I suppose you spat your dummies out as Northfield Animal Haven responded to your original “article” which you didn’t like !
But then again I don’t suppose this comment will ever get published will it !
It would now seem a large Danish warship sailed into the Shetlands and has taken the Sea Shepherd boat.
thank you for sharing this development
Any evidence of that beyond Sea Shepherd’s post, Mike?
Such a seizure would usually require a lot more time before being handed over.
quite a lot of news on this now; Sea Shepherd have photos. Doubtless it will make the news shortly, but photos and a statement can be found here https://www.facebook.com/SeaShepherdUK
Neither myself nor my daughter will be answering your stupid questions and as for providing you with documentation think you would have more chance of winnng the lottery than that happening, I dont care what you think you have in documentation ways but I know for a fact I wasnt made bankrupt in 2009 and as for what went on in a previous personal relationship 15 years certainly has nothing to do with you
I remain happy to clarify the actual date if you supply factual information, and I remain confident of the contents of the document I have. The date is not of importance to the bigger picture: the facts are that you have supplied conflicting statements about your operations, people have approached me to say they felt misled by your initial claims to rescue ‘all farm animals’ which you later changed. How you historically treated money, and the attempted deception to renege on a loan (never repaid as far as I am told) is extremely relevant. Clarifying that your rescue is funded by sales of animals you have deemed not worthy of rescue, and your past attempt at deception for the would-be donor is definitely in the public’s interest.
I did forget one question that people are asking: Who is the owner of these Shetlands, and did they really prefer not to let the animals be rescued by other organisations and insist that only you should have them? I can’t think of any similar case anywhere, ever, and I would love to hear from them.
Who is this jenny green??
I believe this to be a false name.
reporting information from a false name is clearly misleading to the public.
Hello there Dave. The story is by me, Suzanne Kelly. I’m right here. Jenny supplied information for the story, and the police have since confirmed that they were supplied the information – and are investigating. There is this thing the press need to do – keep their sources confidential. It’s a pretty well-known principle. I’d like to know by return who you are? Do you have any connection with fishing/netting/farming? But I don’t expect a reply.
Interesting that Police Scotland could be bothered confiscating a Greenpeace rib which was involved in the protest against the horrific Faroese grind but do not seem to be bothered about taking action on a possible 34 wildlife crimes in our own country.
Hello John, Aberdeen Voice did ask the police why there was nothing being done about the 34 reports. This is their response:
A Police Scotland spokeswoman said,
“Police Scotland can confirm that information has been received in relation to concerns regarding salmon netting in the Montrose area and enquiries into the matter are ongoing. Police Scotland is committed to the investigation of wildlife crime and reports of criminality are taken very seriously. Wildlife crime is any act that is made illegal in Scotland under legislation with regard to certain birds, animals, aquatic life and plants including their habitats, both on land and in water. Such crimes cause significant harm to the species targeted by the criminals, as well as the communities who rely on wildlife for employment and tourism.
“All reports of wildlife crime will be investigated by Police Scotland and appropriate action will be taken. Extensive investigations into these matters can often be challenging and complex, requiring a multi-agency approach, with input and assistance from specialists within partner agencies, including the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service.
“Our aim is to reduce wildlife crime and we ask the public to report any concerns or suspicious activity to Police Scotland on 101. In an emergency contact 999.
“More information on wildlife crime can be found on the Police Scotland website at http://www.scotland.police.uk/whats-happening/campaigns/2015/wildlife-crime”
Thanks for the clarification Suzanne. If Police Scotland are indeed continuing to investigate the 34 incidents in question then I apologise to them for my earlier comment. I look forward to hearing of proceedings commencing regarding these incidents.
no need to apologise; it had not been widely known as far as I can tell that these investigations were going on. I also look forward to hearing of positive action in the near future on these incidents.
Aberdeen Voice recently learned that the Police WILL investigate these 34 alleged crimes. We will keep you posted
have many in the UK forgotten is has been them who pushed forward the European Convention of Human Rights, based at Strasbourg, after WW II ? It has been Brits wanting Human Rights al over Europe!! I find it outrageous a UK PM wanting to re-negotiate EU bonds and values…..opting-out at any problem is NO EU value…obviously he does NOT care….and ot be clear: Scots obviously show UK what to to do …again!
Having read and previously commented on this article and looked over the past comments on both the Northfield havens face-book pages and the AV posts, it appears that there is a bigger story within the story and seemingly some background with the reporter concerned. A can of worms within a can of worms! I am looking forward to hearing more of this. Somebody should contact Jeremy Kyle!
Situations like this seem to fall into 3 distinct categories –
Response no 1 – All accusations are denied, counter accusations are made and the threat of legal reprisals are voiced.(but not acted upon)
Response no 2 – The accusations are answered and the ‘accuser’ is shown up to be a ‘vile piece of shit’ who will feel the full response of both the public and the legal system.
Response 3 – The people who are accused can not answer the questions and admit al or are ‘outed’ as fakes!
As a result, I have looked back over the past statements by both parties and have these questions to ask?
Suzanne Kelly – You claim to have documentary ‘back up’ to your claims? Do you have actual copies of the paperwork or is this verbal / second hand information?
It has been claimed that you have a vegan/ veggie agenda? Is that true?
It has been claimed that you are an ‘alcoholic’. Is this true?
There seems to be some confusion over the dates you have quoted? Why?
Northfield animal have been asked a number of questions which to date have also been unanswered, so I will put forward some questions to them.
It is almost a month since you launched your appeal to save these ponies from being turned into dog meat.
If you have not been able to raise the £5,000.00 (or half that as you have indicated) needed on your ‘Go fund me’ page.
Where are the ponies at this moment?
What veterinary attention have they received?
What veterinary attention will they need in future?
When will they arrive at you centre?
Why has there been no updates on their condition?
Why has there been no photos since you got them into your safe place?
Why are you refusing help that could have had these ponies in care 3 weeks ago?
Dear Pete, I am happy to answer your questions; we shall see if Northfield are as happy as I am to comply. I respond as follows;-
Suzanne Kelly – You claim to have documentary ‘back up’ to your claims? Do you have actual copies of the paperwork or is this verbal / second hand information? My information for this second article came to me directly from those involved. I have seen the documentation, and have copies of the loan agreement, documentation of bankruptcy – see my clarification as to the title of the document with the december 2009 date on it (there is quite a bit on the bankruptcy which seems to have stretched over a fair period of time), evidence of denial the signature on the loan was hers, and the three page letter from the forensic handwriting expert saying that the signatures match: Cable had signed for the loan she promised to repay, and her assertion the signature was not hers was false. Right now other people are coming forward to say they want to give me evidence of other financial improprieties – watch this space. For me how a charity’s fundraisers deal with money – particularly in the attempt to get money for nothing from her then partner’s parents and pensioner grandparents – raises serious questions about whether or not these people, already shown to be deceptive about the farm animal income stream, are trustworthy.
It has been claimed that you have a vegan/ veggie agenda? Is that true? I am a vegetarian – but I don’t know anything about an ‘agenda’. My acquaintances know my stance has unchanged – I am vegetarian, but what other people want to do is not my business. If they ask me, I’ll tell them why I am one. My agenda here is to: a. let people know that despite the signs, the many online appeals promising to rescue ‘all farm animals’ – the other side of their business, kept quiet until the first article, is to sell animals to slaughter with the left hand, while asking the public for money because they want to save animals with their right hand. One person who approached me confronted them on Facebook after being sickened to find out about the killing animal a to support saving animal b was told ‘everyone’ knows that’s how they operate. Again, that’s another statement from them not backed by fact.
It has been claimed that you are an ‘alcoholic’. Is this true? Absolutely not! Nor are the claims I am a liar their administrator, Fiona Manclark, makes on Twitter which she refuses to remove. She’s told me to ‘go ahead and sue’ – well, because my reputation means a lot to people who come to me with stories, I am considering doing just that. Alcoholism is a serious disease; if I thought someone were suffering from it, whatever their business ethics (or lack thereof) – I would not be accusing them of it publicly or privately.
So, I hope this clears things up from my side to your satisfaction; if not – let me know. Over to you Ms Cable
PS – I’d still like answers to the questions I posted for Kelly Cable, which she calls stupid. Pete – please let me know what you think of those questions – and Kelly – we’re waiting. I was approached by the people who gave me the story of trying to renege on the loan; I met with them, rifled through reams of paperwork, and that’s how this article came about. More people have since approached me – and when I see their paperwork, we may well see some further developments.
Dear Peter – while Northfield’s Facebook page administrator Fiona Manclark has found her way to this article and the comments section, it is starting to look as if Northfield are not going to reply to either your or my questions.
As ever, great article. I think the one on Syria could have been a ‘stand alone’, mainly because it contains so much information that explains the background to this awful conflict.
Suzanne, please do take me to court. Your reputation means everything to you? You haven’t even been to visit Kelly even though you have been invited many times.
And you have been seen coming out (or should I say falling out) of brewdog on many occasions. So until you remove your rubbish about Kelly, I will not be removing my truths about you.
for the benefit of readers, Fiona Manclark has used Twitter and Facebook to say I am a liar and an alcoholic. You will not be surprised to hear that I consider this libel and am taking advice. Manclark refuses to remove the posts. There is no point in visiting this farm. I don’t care if the animals that are being saved live in luxury. The original fundraising and sign for the ‘rescue’ claims that Cable rescues ‘ALL’ farm animals. When the truth came out – that they breed and sell animals which are sold for slaughter/meat/whatever at Thainstone to support the rescue work, that spoke volumes. Subsequent claims that ‘everyone’ knows they sell animals, that they don’t personally kill the sold animals so it’s OK, etc. etc. coupled with what looks to many (including those currently investigating from other news providers) like attempt to gain by deception (ie signing for a loan, then claiming the signature was a forgery, then having an expert prove the signature was genuine) are the relevant points. If Manclark or Cable answer the questions put by myself or other posters on this article, we can address issues they raise. Don’t worry Fiona – you will be hearing from legal representatives in the near future, although I would ask you one last time to remove your remarks which I consider libel damaging to my reputation and earning prospects. Just so you are in the loop, I am not the only person interested in how this operation at Northfield has solicited funds.
I can’t wait to hear from your solicitor. You have been seen on many occasions falling out of brewdog, so that’s not libel, that’s the truth.
readers – while this post fails to meet the usual criteria for acceptable commentary on an article, it is being approved to demonstrate the libel continues. BrewDog staff will be surprised to hear that I have ever fallen out of the doors; and probably be miffed at the suggestion they are allowing me to get regularly inebriated in contravention of existing licensing laws. I’d quite like to know who it is who’s watching me; it’s just a tad stalky and creepy – Suzanne
Fiona – the questions put to Northfield by Peter Steven and by me still await something a bit more relevant by way of reply. By now, there may well be one or two other journalists asking the same questions…
I think that you will find that I also keep my sources confidential. As for the questions put forward re the sanctuary, the solicitor has advised Kelly not to answer any questions on here.
You have a solicitor who has no issue if you publish accusations that someone is an alcoholic and a liar – but who thinks it might somehow be risky to say where the Shetlands are coming from, where they are, or to answer any of the other questions? Happy to pass that on.
It appears that the conversation has moved at speed since I last logged in, not only here but on Northfields face book page where a variety of interesting reasons for non compliance are being put forward in response to a request for further information.
I find myself becoming increasingly confused, if not rather annoyed by some of the responses.
Cries of ‘Liar’, ‘alcoholic’, ‘fraudster’ etc. seem to be getting thrown freely about along with the threat of ‘solicitors’ and ‘legal action’.
That aside I appreciate that the questions I put forward to both parties have at least elicited a response from Suzanne Kelly who has answered in great detail. Thank you for your response Suzanne.
Unfortunately not one of the questions I have posted regarding Northfield Animal haven have yet been answered or even acknowledged by them?
1. It is almost a month since you launched your appeal to save these ponies from being turned into dog meat.
If you have not been able to raise the £5,000.00 (or half that as you have indicated) needed on your ‘Go fund me’ page.
Where are the ponies at this moment?
What veterinary attention have they received?
What veterinary attention will they need in future?
When will they arrive at you centre?
Why has there been no updates on their condition?
Why has there been no photos since you got them into your safe place?
Why are you refusing help that could have had these ponies in care 3 weeks ago?
I have to admit that I have found being ignored rather annoying and that the vague replies given by Northfield are simply another attempt to ‘muddy the waters’, so this made me look at some of the posts and answers on the NAH face book pages. What I found was rather surprising and even alarming.
In the interest of fairness, I would welcome response from Northfield animal haven to the comments I post below, so long as you are happy to answer the questions posted above.
‘Most of our lambs are over 6 months of age before they go the ram lambs normally go for meat and the ewe lambs normally are bought by other farmers.’ I don’t know about anyone else but, (despite the grammar) that seems to indicate that they DO knowingly sell animals to slaughter?
A staggering reply to a comment about charity status is as follows – Northfield Animal Haven ‘Frederick I am a registered non profit organisation, which has the same rules and laws with being a registered charity only difference is we don’t have an sco number, accounts etc all have to be done legally same as a charity.’
My personal opinion is that this is just a downright lie! I think somebody needs to get their ‘legal eagles’ to check this out because I think there is a bit more of a difference between being a ‘Scottish registered charity’ and a ‘non profit organisation’ than an SCVO number? This takes me back to their previous posts where they like to promote their SCVO number which is about as legitimate as a Labour party membership card at the moment.
With regard to the counter accusations made against the author of this article, I am not sure that even if she were an alcoholic if that would invalidate her observations. The replies given seem to be just a diversion from actually answering any of the questions asked.
The most important question in my mind is ‘Where are the ponies?’ It is now2 weeks since this was posted
‘Northfield Animal Haven
August 28 at 11:26am •
Just another wee update about the ponies, due to the weather yesterday they didn’t get moved so we will be going for transport this week on the first good day without wind and rain will keep you posted. Kelly’
I had not realised the weather has been that bad but perhaps this simple question might elicit a response? Over to you Northfield.
Dear Pete, Thank you for cutting to the important issue – where are these ponies? I’d like to hear from the owner (very odd they have stayed silent I think). I’d like to know if the animals need veterinary care, and what their condition is.
As to the various claims about the integrity of my data, I think I’m going to publish the documents I have (with addresses blocked out) to end all doubt.
It seems Kelly Cable is saying she has a brain tumour (mentioned on Facebook). This would in her case seem to be a condition going back to 2001 at least. I wish her a speedy and full recovery. It’s a bit surprising you can run a working farm, an animal sanctuary – even get a mortgage– with such a physical impediment, but there you go. It’s even more surprising that Northfield, run by someone apparently with a serious illness, wants to publicly insist that I have a serious illness (which thankfully I don’t) in order to discredit me. It is almost as if she is asking for compassion by revealing this illness, while at the same time having no compassion for someone believed to be ill. (The comments about my being a liar and alcoholic are not made directly by Kelly, but by her acquaintance. They are made on Twitter and on Facebook by a Northfield Animal Haven administrator, so you can conclude Northfield shares these sentiments).
If not for this (non-materialised) threat of legal action, and if not for the people who have come forward since with interesting tales of fdealing with Cable, I’d probably just let things lie, and let the various regulatory bodies do their work. However, it seems I’m being challenged, so it looks like a further article is coming with new revelations as to past financial dealings and images to back up my claims. Again, how someone obtains money, how they pay back (or don’t pay back) loans is definitely in the public interest if they are seeking donations for a charity for which the fundamental claims keep shifting (are they solely dependent on donations as sometimes claimed? No. Do they rescue ‘all farm animals’ as sometimes claimed? no). Potential donors have a right to this information.
So Pete thanks for your excellent questions, I for one am happy to answer any further questions, and I await Northfield’s answers to questions you and I posed. There will be quite a few more questions coming along, just from the people who got in touch with me this past week. And the articles are of course staying up.
If anyone else would like to contact me in confidence with details of relevant dealings with Northfield / Cable, please contact Aberdeen Voice.
Kelly Cable
Northfield Animal Haven
Northfield Farm
Glasslaw
Aberdeenshire
AB43 6PX
10th September 2015
To Suzanne Kelly and The Aberdeen Voice
This correspondence is with regards to the articles printed in your online publication of which legal advice has been sought.
I have been left with no choice but to demand you to take these articles down and also print a retraction confirming that errors have been made under the Defamation Act and Human Rights Act.
Your articles contain false information.
Your articles contain defamatory statements designed to cause harm to reputation.
Your articles contain information that should not be printed under the Human Rights Act for Privacy.
Your articles have caused threatening phone calls i.e. death threats, which are not acceptable; these have been reported to the Police.
If this action is not done within 10 days of receipt of this letter then I may be left with no other option but to raise a court action against you.
As the Press Complaints Commission does not regulate you this avenue cannot be pursued.
As you have no business address available to the public this has to be printed on your site as a comment, due to your sites moderation of comments, this will also be printed publicly on social media.
While I am confident that this matter can be resolved, I shall not hesitate to legal action to resolve this matter.
Sincerely
Kelly Cable
Northfield Animal Haven
A somewhat predictable response from Kelly. All bull and bluster designed to distract and throw you off the scent.
As she is obviously still following your articles she has again avoided answering any of the questions posed to her regarding the whereabouts of the ponies and their condition. Perhaps more surprising is that there has been no further mention of them on the Northfield face book page either.
Whilst I am confident you will indeed print a retraction and an apology should you have unwittingly made any errors, regardless of the threat of the Defamation or Human Rights acts. Perhaps she should clarify her demands as to exactly which part of the articles contain the ‘false information’ she is specifically claiming to be false?
Which specific statement you have made that was ‘designed to cause harm to reputation’?
Which information you printed that ‘should not be printed under the Human Rights act for Privacy’ and to which part of the act she is referring to?
How you are responsible for any third parties behaviour and show proof of how these supposed claims of ‘death threats’ are directly attributable to your articles? I am surprised that you have not already been contacted by the police in this case? Perhaps Kelly could forward you the incident number and you could contact the police yourself regarding this? I always feel it goes better for the guilty party when they turn themselves in.
Looking forward to your next article, that is if you are allowed access to computers in your police cell.
Human Rights Act,eh? I don’t know what legal advice has been sought, but it certainly isn’t from a competent professional and she should ask for her money back. Dearie me.
There’s nothing like attending Offshore Europe to remind yourself that the oil sector is a world apart, the direct bus service put on for it between the airport and the AECC isn’t just for convenience.
Like the industry itself Aberdeen isn’t a home, it’s not even a genuine long term investment, it’s just a place they have to pass through on their way to and from the business of extracting oil and servicing the extractors.
From the well-paid rig-worker to the well paid executive set, why invest or even care about a city which you’re likely not from and won’t be staying once your reasons for being there are gone?
Even Aberdonian Oil Workers show a lamentable disinterest in the long term viability of their home city.
The city center is grungy and neglected, and while there seems an increase in construction projects lately, they all seem poorly thought out. Stewie Milne’s cheap little boxes built en masse on greenbelt land for not cheap prices, bland office blocks, more unwanted shops and office space going where the old council offices were, replacing an eyesore with…an eyesore.
It’s kinda sad that the council which greenlights these projects found the money to set up in Marischall College while the city around it rots but for the developments that the oil sector wants.
All that oil wealth passes through the city but it seems none of it actually sticks around for the benefit of the burghers.
As of 22:20 pm on 13 September, Kelly Cable has made a facebook post claiming the misuse of one of the pony’s photos was a mistake and a one-off. That hardly explains the others, especially the cows. Here’s what she wrote:
“I think from now on anytime I get asked to take ponies or that I will wait until they are here before posting the pictures, have just found out one of the pictures I was sent in February for the Shetland Ponies we took in in March wasnt even one that had anything to do with the rescue and quite rightly so the lady that owns the pony in the picture is fuming, I have apologised for this and deleted her ponies picture. So to be on the safe side from now I am going to wait until they are here at least that way I know the pictures im putting up are of real ponies that do need help”
Yes, well – it would be a good idea to put up pictures of real ponies that do need help when asking for money to help them. Good night all – Suzanne Kelly
I would like to point out here that stealing other peoples photos without their permission is copyright infringement. It is especially fraudulent to be making money from using other peoples work and you can be sued for it. It is also blatently lying to people in my opinion who believe that the money they are donating is going towards saving the animals they are seeing.
We are starting to find out what kind of people Kelly Cable and her ilk really are – dishonest and in some cases downright nasty IMO – especially when they resort to spouting degrading remarks by referring to the reporter as an ‘alkie'(which by the way Kelly Cable, is slander, a word you enjoyed throwing around as I recall), or calling those voicing their concerns over the ethics of her rescue-cum-livestock operation she is running ‘animal abusers’.
Personally i’m a little confused by this statement: ‘have just found out one of the pictures I was sent in February for the Shetland Ponies we took in in March wasnt even one that had anything to do with the rescue’
She states that the photograph sent to her regarding the shetland ponies by, i’m assuming the then owner of the shetland ponies, was in fact a stolen image. Why on earth would the owner have sent a fake photograph of their own ponies? If you had recieved the photograph in february and obtained the ponies in march, how did you not come to realize then that the picture was not genuine? How have you only just found this out now?
Even if, as she states, the pony picture was an error, what about the other stolen photos?
Also on Northfields facebook page, a wellmeaning facebook member who owns a registered charity has pointed out to Northfield the benefits of registering the sanctuary as a charity, as it is free to do so and will offer support and help with funding. This would be helpful, since they are now with the loss of donors lacking funds(and Northfield has commented that Kelly can ‘barely afford to feed herself’ – If you cannot afford to feed yourself, should you really be taking on the responsibility of having other hungry mouths to feed? Surely your wellbeing should come first). It will also help keep accurate records by requiring said charity to submit annual reports and accounts, and will offer their donors peace of mind. In other words, it will mean the organisation can operate with complete protection and transparency. Peace of mind for all.
Sounds like something too good to pass up, right?
However Northfield, from their comments on their facebook page, refuses point blank to register as a charity. Though this is not a crime, it does not help their case, especially from an onlookers point of view. One cannot help wondering if there really is something they’re trying to hide.
One supporter said on their page that ‘I do not really think that Northfield Animal Haven have to prove any more that they “have nothing to hide”‘. I disagree.
Given that they have not been entirely open to the public about their other livestock operation(which frankly no one who donates to save animals, meat eater or otherwise would be impressed with IMO), their refusal of help from other sanctuaries then claiming on their public funding page that they had received no offers of help, and now having been found using false images in order to obtain funding – i’d say proving this is now more important than ever – that is, if they want to retain the confidence of their supporters.
Ms. Cable also stole the use of a photo of a _healthy_ Shetland pony in her plea for money. Now she’s in trouble with the owner of the photo’s copyright. Lawsuit all around her.
Just trying to get my head round the mass of information you have supplied Suzanne.
2006 – 2009 – Kelly Cable was committing benefit fraud to the tune of £3,600.00 for which she was found guilty and ordered to do 180 hours community service. Her response – that she paid the money back and only pleaded guilty to avoid losing the farm. (Why would you pay the money back if you were not guilty?)
Following this she borrowed further money for a house purchase and when denying that she had ever got it a handwriting expert proved her claims false.
She was declared bankrupt (presumably this was the reason why the loan was never repaid) yet somehow managed to get a mortgage on her farm. Rather surprising considering her criminal record and brain tumour that anybody would give her a mortgage.
2011 Kelly opens an animal sanctuary at her Northfield farm. Seemingly she also raises and sells sheep to pay for this worthwhile endeavour. Although I cannot understand how the income of around £1,000.00 per year (she claims) is a viable business or capable of producing sufficient funds to run such an establishment.
She also claims incorrectly ‘I am a registered non profit organisation, which has the same rules and laws with being a registered charity only difference is we don’t have an sco number, accounts etc all have to be done legally same as a charity’.
Since then she has run a variety of campaigns to raise money for her sanctuary. However the pictures she uses on almost all of her fund raisers are false and. Some of the stories associated with the ‘rescues’ are completely fabricated, the example of the cows which she claimed “They dumped them in a shed I’ve been feeding them since Friday” were actually of a rescue in the USA 4 years previously although she clearly stated “RIP to the cows dumped in a shed, I couldn’t save them I tried to get more time and raise enough f… ‘
Her latest campaign to rescue 2 mares and 4 foals is centred round an undisclosed source who intended turning them into dog food, but when offered sanctuary by 2 other well known and respected rescues, refused to allow them to go to anybody but herself. (I find it a bit odd that if she was going to have them as dog food she should suddenly get picky about where they go)
Since then the pictures she had posted of the ponies is discovered to be false and are in fact other peoples ponies who to say the least are not happy about this at all, not surprisingly. However, she has consistently refused to say where the ponies are, give any updates as to their wellbeing (other than they are in a safe place) or provide any photos of the ponies in question despite being in their care for several weeks.
It now transpires that amongst other disabilities she has a brain tumour, claims to be receiving a number of death threats which (conveniently) include threats to the ponies should they arrive at their so called haven, hence the need for secrecy.
Do I have that in the right order and is it just me or do I seem to feel there is a certain repetition to her behaviour?
Oh, and just for extra, it appears from her father Eric, that you ‘and your cohorts’ have now broken her spirit forcing closure, and have revealed all this because you are on a vegan campaign because they sell 15/20 sheep per year. Seemingly it is also up to you and the other sanctuaries to feed and find homes for all the animals they care for.
My first suggestion to Eric Cable would be for him to contact the two rescues who offered to take the six Shetlands and see if they are still willing to help. As for him stating who will ‘step up to the plate’ I rather think the emphasis is on them to find homes for their rescued animals. They are still responsible for their wellbeing. They have claimed to have as many as 200 animals in their care, but which are farm animals and exactly how many are actual rescues is very unclear, however, I look forward to hearing that the six Shetlands are amongst the first to achieve sanctuary.
I hope I have this in the correct order, but please feel free to inform me of any errors I may have inadvertently made.
Just as a matter of interest have you received any visit from the police or solicitors letters yet?
Dear Pete, Thank you for putting it all in order. And your understanding matches my own. If their lawyer (who has not contacted me) would permit them to explain any errors I have made, I will be the first to correct them and apologise.
Since you mention Eric, he is making some charmingly amusing remarks on Facebook. On a thread about me/these articles, he says he’d like to get an AK-47 (tongue in cheek). Whatever am I to make of that.
For my part, all the information uncovered is now with Police Scotland, which will decide if there is anything untowards going on. I’ll report back – if able.
PS – not pressing you Pete, but I wonder whether you are closer to forming an opinion as to who is the more credible, Kelly Cable or me. 🙂
It has been claimed you are an Alkie and a liar and run a vendetta with cohorts of vegans bent on the ruination of this animal welfare group…..but on balance I am 100% certain of your credibility. You have answered every question put to you with back up information, quotes and facts. I have yet to see any credible answer to the questions put to Northfield other than counter allegations or a cry of ‘poor us, we are getting bullied’
I would ask yet again for proof of these ponies existence?
I should also point out I believe non of the accusations made against you 🙂
It seems to me that Ms Cable should get her facts straight before letting rip, especially about AV. If she had then she would plainly have seen that AV is “not affiliated to any Political Party or the interests of any private company, lobby or third party organisation. Its focus is to give a voice to the general public in the North East and to promote inclusion in affairs affecting the region.” So that blows the whole allegation that Suzanne Kelly is out to head a vegan cohort in order to close down Northfield (in fact, vegans would like nothing more than to see animal sanctuaries thriving not shutting in order to remove animals from the horror of slaughter that Ms. Cable sells the farm lambs to). As far as Suzanne’s diet is concerned it wouldn’t surprise me in the least that there are more carnivores who write for the publication than vegetarians, so if the article had been written by a meat eater would AV then be accused of having an anti-rescue bias?
Ms. Cable has also made mention of death threats against her which also include the ponies. It would be interesting to find out who she thinks these death threats are from because no-one involved in the fight for animal rights would EVER think about hurting an animal. And that also includes humans as we are as much animals as those on four legs, we are just a different species of animal.
As for the allegation being made that Suzanne Kelly is an “alkie” because she was
SUPPOSEDLY seen stumbling out of a bar, has no-one affiliated with Northfield ever left a bar drunk? I know that in the past 25 years since I have been legally allowed to buy alcohol that I’ve left drinking establishments a little the worse for wear on occasion. Or are everyone at Northfield modern-day Puritans who have never touched alcohol and think that everyone else should be the same?
Am toying with the idea of writing a sarcastic piece about the bizarre claims made against me and the contradictory logic employed by those affiliated with NAH. By the way, when I told BrewDog staff / customers about the allegations of me being seen falling out of the bar’s doors, they have no such recollection, and we all had a little laugh. Death threats are not as much a laughing matter. But if we’re supposed to believe that the Cables want our sympathy because they have received death threats, then it’s just a bit lacking in empathy for Eric Cable to have made a remark about getting an AK-47 on a Facebook page referring to me / these articles. Perhaps joking about bumping me off is a means of venting over the death threats they say they have had – which I hope they’ve brought to the attention of Police Scotland. One thing they are in denial about: I am the author of articles chronicling what has been done – I am not the author of their misfortunes, they are. Oh, and as far as the secret Vegan extremist cult agenda is concerned; alas, I am vegetarian, not vegan.
Glad to see you are not Tweeting from your
police cell as opposed to your politically active undercover ‘veggie cell’ devoted to the trolling of good honest people who wouldn’t ‘flee the fair’
Thank you and thank you for your wonderful piece for AV
Vegans and veggies, they are all the same. A bit like a working farm and an animal rescue centre. As my uncle Charlie used to say “Neeps – foo’s yer heed!”. I also do a great cake that contains a hacksaw, if ever needed. 🙂
Thank you Dorothy – may need that cake yet; but do you have any bulletproof vests?
You do realise I hope that the sheep shown in the pictures above does NOT have ear tags!
This must be rectified as soon as possible, according to the “Sheep and Goat Identification and Traceability – Guidance for Keepers In Scotland”.
You may otherwise incur the wrath of both “Animal Health” & The Scottish Government!!!
I await a new picture showing the aforementioned animal with its new, pretty tags (unless you use a bolus, in which case just one tag will do.
🙂
Love it; sounds like complete bolus to me. Does it help if I confirm the editor has been dipped in organophosphates repeatedly?
Pretty much sums up the argument on both sides and as a bonus, funny. Respect, Suzan
ne.
Oh dear, I’ve been blocked too. Just to say I’d no hat in this ring, I know that many people who desperately want to save animals will take them in and appeal for money, and then get into into difficulties with their books. No one condemns them and offers to help straighten out their affairs come flooding in – as a member of SCVO, Northfiled has access to free legal advice and help with accounting. If they’d asked for advice for setting up a haven for farm animals they would have been advised the best way to do this would have been to offer free farm land to an animal charity. And I would also say that most farmers are animal lovers even if they breed animals for slaughter. But, reason my hat is now in the ring is the appeal for £5000 for transport for 4 Shetlands is not the cost of transporting 4 Shetland ponies anywhere, and since I’ve asked questions of NAH I’ve been referred to April’s post to see a picture of some Shetland ponies with no details. Angry that goodhearted people are paying money to people who claim to be a registered non profit organisation which is n
ot, when they could donate to effective and legal charities who really do protect animals.
I think it’s important to consider the main issue here. This is not about Veggies V Meat eaters. This is not about breeding animals for slaughter.This is not an attack on an animal rescue who are neglecting or abusing their animals. This is not an attack on a vulnerable person or organisation.
This is an attack on people who abuse people! This is about people deceiving the public into thinking they are contributing money and goods towards the rescue of animals pictured in need. This is about the concealment of truth about those peoples methods of operation. This is about the lack of transparency and accountability of funds raised. This is about the methodical attempts to muddy the waters by lie upon lie and counter claim after counter claim. This is about the arrogance of people who think they can tell you lies and expect to get away with it. This is about people who think they do not have to account for their actions by simply refusing to answer you.
This is about people being brought to account by good investigative journalism!
What a load of utter bollocks in my opinion from the northfield animal haven aka kelly marie cable. All these pleas for donations for money for keeping the animals alive and the ponies that will only go to you (supposedly)- that is if they do actually exist. The duplication of other people’s photos of there animals that have nowt to do with Northfield that would be fraud by false representation. As for Cable’s claim (made elsewhere) stating they don’t have a computer for doing the accounts or a scanner for copying them bull. Kelly’s brother had a large computer shop that built and sold computers in Turriff so I doubt he would not see her without a pc and printer scanner that would be able to do everything to run the place [Note: Northfield certainly seem to have access to computers for creating all their fundraising appeal and using social media sites such as Facebook and Twitter]. Kelly is capable of doing the accounts and knowing how to email them. What is interesting is how would she keep charity donations of feed straw and hay apart from her personal purchases of same items and how much of the haven raises goes towards paying the Mortgage and the household bills. How much does Kelly actually earn and does it cover the running bills of the farm? From what I have read and followed it seems like a lot of deception has gone on and if nothing to hide why has she closed down and removed her fundraising appeals? oh and Suzanne I don’t believe for one minute what’s said about you – they are trying to cloud the waters so people can’t see clearly what is going on with you’re articles of factual accurate and we’ll researched reports thank you
Do you have proof this fundraising money wasn’t used to help animals??
BTW I hope you know suing someone for being libellous would cost you at least £3000 to even get to the initial hearing stage, and that you’d lose the case imo, calling someone an alcoholic isn’t libellous, it’s that persons opinion of you, rightly or wrongly people are allowed to state opinions on other people.
If this is a scam great work, I’ve not followed the story so would like to see some evidence of any wrongdoing?
‘Great’ work is high and unexpected praise from Bill Stephens.
The police are looking into how the money was spent; that’s their area. There were also goods donated via Amazon to do with animal care feeding, etc. I wonder whether these were only used for rescue animals and not for the commercial meat side of the business.
The deceptions had to do with using images (without permission) of animals who needed no rescue without explaining the (misappropriated) images were for illustration only. Did the six Shetland ponies actually exist? We were told the ponies were destined for the meat trade unless we coughed up £5,000. Two charities said they would rescue the animals without needing to raise £5,000. Then Northfield said the animals’ owners would only let Northfield save them. How logical does it seem to you that this mysterious owner didn’t contact major rescues, only Cable, and would rather have the ponies turned into meat rather than rescued by others? The explanation for this was along the lines that the owner (who has never come forward) decided that there was some sort of unfair vendetta or something against Cable. How an owner so far away (must not be local considering the sums wanted for transport and vets) knew anything about any vendetta is a good question, as is how they’d rather have the animals to be rescued killed if it meant not giving to CAble.
The Go Fund Me page was misleading in that it made a representation that Northfield was dependent only on the public to keep going. Not true: they didn’t let people know that they also sell animals at market. This alone was upsetting for some donors who would never have contributed to a rescue acting like this.
Is the past behaviour of the shelter’s operators relevant? I think so – there is a pattern of proven benefit fraud, several cases of borrowing thousands of pounds without repayment, in at least one case Kelly Cable tried to claim her signature on a loan document was a forgery. A forensic handwriting expert proved her claim was untrue.
As to my intent to take legal action against Fiona Manclark, she’s repeated the claim that I am an alcoholic and a liar over several different social media platforms. If she said ‘I beleive Suzanne is a liar and an alcoholic’ that would be one thing. She says that it is true, she won’t back down or apologise, and that I am an alcoholic and a liar. As I want people to keep coming to me with stories to research, and as I’d rather like my current and future employers to think well of me, action will be taken. I did give her every chance to retract / apologise, so she’s brought this on herself.
Incorrect terminology is, as Monsieur Allard says, potentially damaging. Unfortunately Monsieur Allard goes on to say that “They are not migrants….I am a migrant and I am no refugee”
Monsieur Allard makes no attempt to explain who “they “are but I presume, perhaps mistakenly, that he is referring to anyone who has recently arrived in Europe from the Middle East and/or Turkey. This gives rise to a further presumption, again perhaps mistaken, that he is blessed of special powers which enable him to determine, from a great distance, the origin, status and intentions of hundreds of thousands of people currently crossing Eastern and Central Europe on foot or crossing the sea to Greece.
At this moment in time, there is a burgeoning black market in Syrian passports across Europe as economic migrants seek to maximise their chances of being granted “refugee” status. Neither the migrants or refugees have any interest in seeking to settle in Eastern Europe or even in France, Spain or Italy. They are determined to make their way to England, Germany and Scandinavia as that is where they believe a better future lies.
If language is important, surely it is worth taking the time to ascertain who is a “migrant” and who is a “refugee”, to ensure the most vulnerable are protected, rather than lazily following the rather tired and unscrupulous SNP party line, which is to try to claim moral superiority over the UK Government by labelling everyone as a “refugee” and trying to exploit a humanitarian crisis.
This is an absolute disgrace. Hopefully the law will see sense
What utter nonsense, who could lay claim to this as vacant posession?
Exactly.Take him on.
This is a disgrace he should hang his head in shame.
What is his truthfull agenda for cove harbour in the future a house by any chance as why would he need it vacated and ruin hundreds of years of family tradition of fishing and the ĺeisure activities I am 47 now and I remember when I was a child and going out of cove harbour with the boat with my dad and his friend and it was a busy place then and if someone has used something for over 13yrs can they not claim possession of what they was using I might be wrong with that and would it not be very expensive serving court orders on individual people who are using the area for each of there activities be it from climbing to fishing
Hope something can be done to preserve public access since over time this has been the norm.
I was of the opinion that the coastal area’s belonged to the crown, if this is the case surely the fisherman would have right of access. Do we know what the said individual intends to do with the land. Between harbour developments and this we will have no public coastline left.
How did this person become the landowner in the first place?
This man is in my opinion obviously a self centered buffoon who thinks he is more important than a community… Cove harbour has always been a public place, no-one should have the right to change that..!
Mr Kolhne agents report is severally flawed.
It is at the best a basic survey with no static points of survey to reference from.
I deal with surveys on daily basis and this one is very poor .
I look forward to recieving a detailed title deed from Mr Kolnes agents so I can laser survey the disputed land and issue a accurate boundary area .
For information I own and use a vessel out with the disputed boundary
Is this man for real have been going down there for the last 35year when I meet my wife
And played football ⚽ for cove
Who does this single minded person think he is I was brought up.in cove and we always went down to the cove shore to explore as kids and when we got older took our kids and friends with us think this Person needs to realise this is a public place that all the locals and visitors do go to can this man open his eyes and show a little compassion for the local fishermen as many of them have been there for a good many years and their fathers before them a need to start a petition and see if they could get someone else to buy the area and keep it for everyone.
This should b left for the public to access and continue to appreciate the beautiful surroundings
The law is on the side of the fishermen. Mr Kohle has no legal case whatsoever IMO. This is a pure try on and if he went to court he would loose. Just ignore this petty tyrant and carry on as usual.
Fairly sure you are right, Scott. And there might just be a case for counter suing for using harassment to wrongly deprive people of their rights. That would be sweet.
I thought that there was a method used by squatters that occupying somewhere of a set period meant that they became the owners
Or is that English law (which I believe may have been changed recently)
What happened to the case a year or few ago about some holiday huts? (in Ayrshire?)
I do hope everyone watches this, I have been looking forward to seeing it. I watched the first film, & I know that friends in the US have watched it on my recommendation – they’re not fans of The Donald either! It being Mark Kermode’s “TV film of the week” might bring it a wider audience that it would normally have garnered.
This programme provided an excellent opportunity for me to rediscover my anger and astonishment at the way this unusual example of humanity was not only permitted to ride roughshod over legal protection, established democratic procedure and the human rights of ordinary Scots, but that he did so with the full cooperation, encouragement and toadying of the Scottish Government, particularly Alex Salmond, Aberdeen Journals, our forces of law and order and both Aberdeenshire and Aberdeen City Councils.
What is it about the vulgarity of obscene wealth which turns otherwise intelligent and honest individuals into such slavering sycophants?
Could not agree with you more, Mr Wood – I had a few “I didn’t remember that” & “I can’t believe he said that” moments. I had the pleasure of meeting David Milne shortly after the first film was broadcast, & made a point of telling him how appalled I was by what was happening & how much I admired him for his stand. One thing Trump said, I think in the first film, but it was shown again last night, when he commented “Mr Milne has a house that is, frankly, unattractive” is making my blood boil all over again as I type this – Trump is hardly the arbiter of good taste, never mind the “environmental expert” he claimed to be, among other things. The tourism award was simply laughable – does he really think people are that uninformed? The letter Mr Forbes received from someone in San Francisco apologising for “our worst American export” would have been amusing if it wasn’t so sad & true.
where can I find the publication??
Hello Sarah – the lecture will be on Aberdeen Voice after it is given by Neil Cooney. The link at the bottom of the article provides further information. Hope this helps
What a wonderful post. Are we going to miss you.
Thank you for the kind words. Even if I’m not living in Aberdeen, there is nothing to stop me keeping an eye on the town and a hand on a keyboard. I recall that the city once had a pension advisor; she moved to Canada. Apparently she was so invaluable, and no one else could do the job that they flew her over and paid her expenses when they needed her. This may have been around the same time we didn’t have enough money for all the social programmes that were cut. Have a great day.
One of your best, Suzanne!
Everyone should sign this if you think it is wrong.
https://www.change.org/p/scottish-parliament-save-the-fishing-boats-of-cove-harbour-aberdeen-2015?recruiter=397052828&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
the road down to the Harbour belongs to council so they would have no obligation to maintain this road if it was private it was built for access for fishermen, who originally built the road with there bare hands and was just boulders and cement. this guy better just stick to his plastic business and stop ripping off NHS for work that was never done
In my opinion Bibo’s work here is not good and I agree it does not deserve the publicity it has received. I think it is fair for the college to choose that which they deem appropriate to show at the exhibition. If the student or others disagree then send work into the appropriate forum for display or go to such a venue. The work makes no great social comment,again and of course, in my opinion. Thanks for the opportunity to read this article and to give my opinion. I hope that the promotion of this work inspires other artists of greater quality to raise their work above and beyond the purulent and grab our attention with something that can truly make us think and act differently.
Would like to join but can’t find out where or when!
hello – this should help For more details of how to find your nearest institute, or advice on how to set up a new one, visit http://www.srwi.org or go to its Facebook pages at https://www.facebook.com/ScottishWomensRuralInstitutes
“Scotland’s third sector, which does huge amounts of public good, desperately needs access to a financial infrastructure that matches its values and ways of working. For charities and socially beneficial organisations, the current financial system is broken beyond repair – leaving them hampered by scattered resources, unsuitable products and unmet needs,” said Deirdre Forsyth, Chair of Scottish Community Re:Investment Trust.”
I agree with the aims of SCRT but I don’t know of any other source of finance apart from the current financial system.
The financial system is broken beyond repair but there is no analysis on the SCRT site to explain this situation that affects all of us.
Look for the source of the problem and therein lies the solution. “Follow the money” supply to its source and you find the problem.
As detailed in The Bank of England Quarterly Bulletin Q1 2014 (website and videos), Topical article “Money Creation in the Modern Economy: An Introduction,” 97% of our money is now created in the form of loans by banking corporations and 3% as cash.
Every loan and mortgage means the creation of new money by the bank as bank credit (IOU).
Deposits do not create loans. Loans create deposits. Sounds mad but it’s true.
We have a private-for-profit money system which is fundamentally flawed because the interest demanded must also come from the same source, thus demanding even more interest.
That is why the National Debt has to go up. Taxes the same.
It doesn’t have to be like this. It’s a man-made system not a rule of nature.
The money reform group Positive Money is lobbying for a Commission on Money Creation to investigate the real problem instead of tinkering with regulation.
Nice piece, Suzanne.
I hope you got some favourable comments.
John Robins of Animal Concern has been in touch to comment: “This expensive project appears to have been fatally flawed from the start. Aberdeen City Council decided, against the wishes of locals, to replace a perfectly good wildlife habitat and natural meadow with an artificial woodland planted on ground which is unlikely to be able to support mature trees. They have not protected the young trees from being smothered by weeds or browsing by animals and they have killed so many roe deer the herd which lived there for generations may never recover. I suggest those involved plant some Calluna vulgaris – they might need some lucky white heather to keep their jobs.”
Aberdeen City Council has had many fiscal fiascoes, this being one. When challenged on these issues, officials come up with the most absurd arguments, Pete Leonard being an expert in this field.
Please can you advise if you have any more open evenings coming up? I am currently taking part in counseling skills training at Aberdeen University and am very keen to volunteer to help counsel with an organization such as yours.
regards
Moira Ross
Dear Moira – pleaes email here to ask for more information, and all the best acis.manager@mhaberdeen.org.uk
Working for no pay seems to be the thing nowadays – not so much Minimum/Minimal Wage as No Wage.
I have been practising ‘Silent Night’ on my recorder and have looked out my elf hat, you know, the one I can use to collect the money, that will of course be rolling in when they hear my rendition of said carol. There will not be a dry eye on the terrace.
A bit harsh on bass players eh? 😉
In an ever changing world of seemingly irresistible technological advance, it is always comforting to return to my native city, to find that some things remain reassuringly familiar, not least the apparently relentless Aberdeen City Council drive to remove all forms of wildlife, particularly roe deer, beyond the city limits.
Throw in the unwillingness of Aberdeen City Council, to voluntarily provide information to justify a degree of mass slaughter, rumoured to be the basis of a forthcoming Hollywood blockbuster entitled Bambi meets ISIS, and I am almost breaking into a proud and spontaneous chorus of The Northern Lights of Old Aberdeen.
Got to be Aitkens; well fired!
We the Trustees of Port Erroll Harbour are intrigued by the narrative contained in the foregoing article to the effect that the Trustees have a “Draft Plan” for a Visitor – Heritage Centre and other related accommodation at Port Erroll Harbour.
There is no such ‘draft plan’ and whoever provided you with the information has miss-informed you.
It might have been better before going public, had you contacted the Trustees and established the accurate position regarding this matter.
The Trustees are trying to save the Port which has been a working Registered Port since 1872. The Harbour currently runs the grave possibility of being totally lost if there are no further extensive repairs and maintenance carried out. It has been professionally estimated that the Port requires a £2.4 million pound investment.
The Trustees in carrying out their fiduciary duties are looking at a range of ideas to develop robust revenue streams so that the Port can attract funding packages that will in turn secure the long term future of the Registered Port.
One of the ideas that is being considered along with others is a Visitor – Heritage Centre.
If any of the ideas were to become a possible viable project then all the relevant outcomes from a public consultation process would be an inherent part of any final design. It really goes without saying that full recognition of any Conservation status – requirements that may apply at the time of any proposed planning application would also be taken fully into account.
You will also know that there have been several award winning waterside developments carried out in Conservation Areas in Scotland,
Nice work I wish I had thought of it.
[This post has been edited, heavily – it did not meet our criteria, and exhibited the kind of xenophobia Trump does. It is being published in edited form to allow me to reply – Suzanne Kelly ]Donald Trump is trying to prevent those who have added to the ruination of the Usa from entering the country. what in hell is wrong with that? nothing. Scotland has not been attacked as the USa has at the world trade center, San Baernardino killings. When Obama an for offic against hilliary clinton he said ‘mygrandmother showed typical white behavior.’ this racist should never have been President. the white race inculudes, Scottish, English, Irish, France, numerous nationalities. Including yours, Suzanne kelly. Why wassnt obama punished? becasue he has fooled many stupid people. Obm also insulted christians at the National day of Prayer Breakfast help annually in the White House. He never apologized.Turmp is not wanting to physically harm anyone. he just wants to keep out those harming the USa. That is not hate, The USa has suffered enough to to its goodness of allowing people freely into the country.
It never ceases to amaze me that people will formulate strong opinions, make sweeping generalisations and reach unfounded conclusions without doing any research at all. 1. Donald Trump DOES want to hurt people – he’s said, and repeated that relatives of terrorists should be taken out (i.e. killed if you haven’t realised it). This has had condemnation from many quarters, and is of course in direct opposition to worldwide conventions and accords on basic human rights. He’s not called for the relatives of would-be pipe bomber William Celli to be taken out though; I wonder why not? But to get on to the racism comments in Virginia’s submission. We could try to explain the difference to you between the words ‘typical’ and ‘all’. What Obama said was this: “The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn’t know (pause) there’s a reaction in her that doesn’t go away and it comes out in the wrong way.” – and Donald Trump said ALL Muslims would be banned ‘until we can figure out what the hell is going on.’ Should we have to wait for Trump to figure out what is going on, we’d best get comfortable and not hold our collective breath. Obama has fooled stupid people? Has Trump then appealed to the intellencia? But there is our lesson for the day – the difference between ‘typical’ and ‘all’.
It’s your comments and conclusions about race though which worry me. The white races. Ah yes, you presume to know what race I am. First though, one of the more eloquent speakers at the UK Parliamentary debate helpfully debunked the myth that America was/is some form of inclusive melting pot that historically welcomed everyone with open arms. My Irish immigrant ancestors fled starvation, and were met in New York when looking for work by signs that read ‘No Blacks, No Irish and No dogs.’ America of course wasn’t so nice to the actual Americans, the tiniest bit of their blood is in me, which is a source of pride. Alas, though, I think that would taint my ‘white racial purity’ in the eyes of someone like you to whom skin colour and ‘race’ seem so important. (NB – I am not a ‘pretendian’ – someone with a drop of Native American blood who believes they are indeed native). So no, I don’t think of my race as being the white race. I think of my race as being The Human Race. I wish this would be a comment you’d take on board and do further research and soul searching in response, but that’s not going to happen.
Interesting article. Thanks. ” Heritage Centre” or not, it does make a point about how strongly most local peopIe feel about the retention of the conservation area status of Port Errol. It is a “living” village with a strong sense of community. When referring to a draft plan by the Harbour Trust of building a two storey modern building on the drying green, I wondered whether you refered to the following?
http://youtu.be/m4ZbHx_LWek
No proposals? Funny the producers of the video say this : iCreate produced this Flyaround and Interior Walkthrough Animation to show the proposed visitor-heritage centre for Port Erroll Harbour, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
GO FIGURE!!
Save extra huff to your precious parliament that rules over your Scotland from London and honour me with a simultaneous exclusion with Trump because I endorse his position in regard to Muslim immigration to the USA 100%. I can do without breathing the oxygen your dismal weather generates. Since we are a Republic as unlike you, your parliament and your queen have no writ over Malta. And the European Union, that quintessential liberalist half arsed rump will have to lump it whether it likes us conservatives and rightist or not. Thanks to your Muslim arse kissing multitudes who cringe we who do not (cringe) and have killed the critters in their thousands throughout history here at least, will continue to grow. Meanwhile you bunch of chamberlainites continue to pander to them whilst they continue to hold you beneath contempt for as Mr. Benn said in your precious parliament (aka saliva palace) each one of them considers himself as superior to you. Then when the Shit will hit the fan you will be evaporated by them and it will be us against them without your holier than thou leftist liberalist trembling anal twittering messing around.
As an American I commend your efforts to ban Donald Trump from the UK. Good luck.
Disgusting man, A Racist thug and Moron – in my opinion
Maybe people in the US should get a petition to ban the UK from the U.S. How stupid
@ JIM C;
Ehh… why should UK be banned from U.S.? They haven’t acted abusive as far as I know, Silly Trump really do act as a stupid, other countries may consider a ban for him as well we’ll see.
Trump is not baning Muslims he is just saying they should be screened. Do you think terrorists should be allowed into Britain willynilly if you do you obviously have never heard of the atrocities they have committed.
Suzanne here – I guess one of the other editors must have approved the comment from Murray Smith. Don’t you think it speaks volumes about prejudice? I do. Sure, let’s just segregate people based on their religious inclinations; that’s never led anywhere bad in the past (Murray, that nice Mr Trump wants to ban Muslims from entering the USA, and spy on mosques. He did not say screen them. This may come as a shock to you, but some Muslims are actually American citizens. How did you feel about the American internment camps for Americans of Japanese origin? Just wondering).
Where can I sign this petition?
Hello, thank you for your question. There is a link in the article, but it is only for UK residents, as it’s a petition to the UK government. Here is the link for ease of reference. All the best https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003 PS – at the time of writing the petition is all of 4 hours or so old, and has over 7,000 signatures. This is gratifying; if nothing comes of it, that’s 7,000+ UK residents who’ve said no to hate speech, however wealthy the speaker is. And, it’s very humbling. Overall, this is a group project, and am proud to be part of it – Suzanne Kelly
Bravo Suzanne! I have just signed theUK Gov petition – just to let you know, 40,777 have signed it now at 08:19 on December 9. I firmly believe there will be 100000 sigs by the end of the day.
@AKing
” I firmly believe there will be 100000 sigs by the end of the day”, and then some!
218,253 and rising by more than 7 a second the last I looked. And the petition still hasn’t been live 24 hours yet. Well done.
Dear ms Kelly. Thankyou for starting this petition and I’m glad it has gained much more than half a million signatures. We don’t want bigots like him in our country. Do you have any idea if and when the parliament will debate this?
you are welcome. I don’t know when debate will be, but will post news as and when.
I just created a petition to “Ban Suzanne Kelly of Aberdeen, Scotland from pretending she is a journalist.” It has about as much chance as her getting DT banned from the UK. Oh Well!
His hate has no place in our world
sorry, Trump has right in my opinion………… just wait a few years .. then you will see..Unfortunately… [comment moderated; ‘in my opinion’ added]
Sorry Trump is a racist buffoon who should not been allowed to ruin the Mennie Estate and who by the sound of his bragging is doing the same to Turnberry. By the way where are the thousands of jobs he promised at Menie all talk and no substance.
No to bigots.
More power to Suzanne Kelly. At about 12:30 today (9/12/15) I timed the voting on the petition at about 500 votes a minute!!!!!!!
Please lets advertise this petition to all our friends and family and make it clear that Trump is no longer welcome to visit the UK.
Do you think right wing politician will miss this opportunity. See what is happening in France
wouldn’t it be good to see a bus load of muslim golfers turn up to play golf at menie next time trump visits.
You are misguided! You must live in a perfect White bubble to not see how illegal immigration and/or not vetting Muslims correctly is wrong for any country. It’s not hate, it’s realism. You should try it sometime!
I’ll be impressed when Miss Kelly calls for the banning from the UK of most of the Saudi prices living in London calling for Sharia law in the UK. But she is merely 1 more of the politically correct masses who don’t see the real danger to the country and take out their bile on a harmless blowhard.
Harmless? Running for the POTUS – you cannot be serious? The bile is flowing from Trump – you’re blinded by your preconceptions. What do you know about Trump – or rather what do you think you know about Trump? Gosh and if you feel so strongly about something then you could do worse than emulate Suzanne and work hard to achieve her goal rather than expect someone else to do the hard, thankless work! Why don’t you pull your finger out and do something rather than rain on somebody else’s parade? I’m quite sure that Suzanne won’t be kept up at night wondering how she can impress Tee Kay!!
Let’s talk about rhetoric…Suzanne Kelly is well versed in this as well. She has always had issue with Donald Trump & now this? Sorry Suzanne, but seeing as you are NOT a US citizen I think it’s safe to say that the election for President is NONE of your business. A petition to ban him from the UK for hate speech? Against a radicalized religious group? I’m sorry, am I missing something here?
Donald Trump may be boisterous, loud & unsavory at times but I’ve never known him to build IED’s, pipe bombs, carry automatic weapons or fly a plane into a building…now, terrorists have, al Qaeda HAS, ISIS/ISIL would love to do that. And perhaps most pertinent is that he didn’t say ban ALL MUSLIMS, but to cease the settlement of refugees in the US for a moment, to hit the pause button, because you know, after the Paris attack & San Bernadino shootings, you want to be sure who you are bringing into your country for safe haven. How, in your tiny little mind do you consider that hate speech & why would you have an issue with the US taking measures to protect its citizens?
That’s not hate speech, that’s being smart, not opening our borders to every refugee, because if the Paris atta is taught us ANYTHING it’s that you must be cautious, you never know where or when an attack might happen or where it might come from.
If you have a problem with that, I tell you what…come talk to me after you’ve watched 2,977 of your countries citizens either burn to death, be vaporized by an explosion, die from smoke inhalation or leap to their own deaths, all in one day, in a time span lasting less than 2 hours. One hour & 42 minutes to be exact. Almost 3,000 dead & another 6000+ injured, because of a terrorist attack by radical Muslim jihadists. Then & only then, will you have a right to open your stupid mouth.
How in the world can you even believe &/or defend this? Your arrogance is absolutely disgusting. Is Trump the best man for President? I’m not sure, there’s more information to gather everyday…what I am sure of is that I am so glad that you are not a citizen of the US. You think Trump is awful, so greedy, so filled with hate speech?
Lady, you’re just like him. And the fact that you can’t see it is extremely disturbing.
and who do you think created these so called terrorists ? UK and US bombed F out of iraq, afghanistan and libya etc. do you not think people from these countries see us as terorrists ?
foreign policy for the last 100 years has created these so called terrorists and they are only getting their own back on us any which way they can.
Rather than bar him from entering Great Britain, perhaps you could admit him and then immediately send him in exile to one of those tiny little rocky islands far off the coast of Scotland, the ones that are only like twenty by twenty feet or so. Drop food for him every few weeks, but that’s it. He’ll have to stay on his tiny island until he apologizes.
Please, Britain, you are our ally. Couldn’t you take him off our hands for us here across the pond? The grat majority of we Americans do not want Adolph — er I mean Donald over here any longer.
Leave Trump alone – we all have opinions and he has his.
Remember we have freedom of speech both in UK and US.
If the US voters don’t want him they won’t vote for him.
Trump is acting within the boundaries of US law.
Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 —
“Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.”
No, he isn’t, because he is NOT the president.
GO TRUMP! BUILD THE WALL! PROTECT WHITE CIVILIZATION! WE STAND WITH YOU!
So it’s only freedom of speech when it’s the type of speech you seem to correct? At the end of the day more people didn’t sign the petition than did. I can’t help but feel there is a vindictive element to this petition. You didn’t stop his “ecological disaster” of a golf course, so we will have our round two with this petition. There are actual hate hate preachers in this country who publicly call for the destruction of Britain. Where is you petition for them? Seems that a rich white male oh and American makes an easier target for the socialist left leaning lunatics. I don’t agree with what Trump said, but I agree that he has a right to say what he thinks. If you don’t like it?…change the channel.
trunp is human and scared just like the rest of you of ISIS so block them from entering any country. Islam is not a christian view religion. duh..!
Trump is a disgusting racist. I hope the UK does pass a ban against him entering the country. The vast majority of Americans do not agree with anything he says and consider him a joke. There is no way this man will ever win the presidency. We only wish we could pass a bill throwing him out of America.
It’s about time that his true colours have finally been exposed for everyone to see, the man is a disgrace to the human race. Let’s just hope he gets exactly what he deserves. Also well done to the actions of the Abeedeen voice, and the petitioners for their part, bravo 🙂
HOPE THEY STOP ANY MORE PLANING IN HIS GOLF COARSE
Although I am not a follower of Mr Trump everyone who thinks they are somebody (narcissistic EGO lovers) will rule the day when he becomes President of the USA and ignores Britain and you will all rule the day with your open arms policy of flooding the UK with Muslims when more terrorist attacks/murdering happens in Britain for this is not if they start its only a matter of when they start – and don’t say I am speaking a load of rubbish and all the other feel good names you people use to describe someone who does not have your blinkered knowledge less views of life and the world – anyone with a modicum of sense and knowledge can understand any person who reads and follows the teachings of the Quran (The Muslim Holy Book)and says they are a Muslim are potential – I will leave you to fill in the blank just remember one thing its Muslims and not Christians that are causing at least 95% of all terrorism in the world today and the British Government are /will be unable to protect the British public from these attacks once they start O yes they will be able to clean up but not prevent up to now its been luck more than anything that has kept us safe but this luck is running thin
wow i had NO IDEA that United Kingdom had so many muslims.
No wonder their major parties are also supporting the ban
that petition is a real eye opener
As a citizen of U.S. I want to say THANKS! Good luck!
He is speaking out , what a lot of us are thinking. We are trying to protect our citizens, because our president isn’t. The news is picking out certain words & not the whole speach.
I have seen many post/news feeds, where the UK is having trouble from them refugees and all of their HATE comments, hand jesters to the camera & their demands. Maybe, just maybe…our leaders have put the rights of their citizens safety, 2nd to refugees , who do not respect the laws of their host countries and is going to be a strain on every ones economy. I watched many film clips of ALL MALE refugees coming into Europe….looked like an invasion, not people coming with their families, that need help. Then, when they were offered food, they threw it on the ground & demanded money. Crime rates are going up & the rapes are going though the roof.
And you have a petition to keep a man out…who just wants his country to be safe ? Take a serious look around, to see the big picture of what is really happening. The citizen’s safety of Europe & UK have to come first. That is the responsibility of the men/ women we vote into office…..hence Donald Trump’s passion.
A very proud AMERICAN.
Trump is IMO a narcissistic self-serving liar who says whatever he thinks will rile up a particular section of the ignorant uneducated american public. He taps into their fears and lies when he promises he has the answers. Trump knows nothing about foreign policy and security that much is very clear if you have 2 brain cells. And his economic pronouncements must embarrass and/or shame his alma mater the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.
Trump is a bully and a creep – beware if he says I love you – mexicans, women and black people, wives. [slightly edited – IMO added to the start]
While we’re at it, can we ban Suzanne Kelly too?
good idea
Isis are jumping for joy that Trump said what he did
Trump is pushing people towards radicalisation
hatred for Muslims is exactly what Isis want
He is dangerous
Stuart has not got a clue about his constituents, let alone anything to do with energy, 6 months since he was elected still not had a decent reply from him, let alone any action or help. I live in a rural hard to heat home, low income, disabled, at risk and vulnerable!! bad enough? Add, no heating, no hot water and no insulation and 3 years of trying to get assistance, never mind smart meters, deal with important matters first.
All power to you Suzanne!
There is a “huuuuuge” number of Americans who support banning Trump from the UK. The best we can do here in America is hope that the FBI adds him to their formal list of “hate groups” for monitoring. I’d like to thank my “cousins” in the UK for initiating this discussion regarding the ban. Good work! Trump is a “huuuuge” embarrassment to this country, so I feel the need to apologize for his existence.
People of UK have been misinformed on what Trump’s actual words were. Due to Earnest and Ryan not telling the whole truth! Listen to speech temporary stopping entrance in US just til our Government gets background checks in order is all he said just for safety. Its no different than Ryan trying to totally keep refugees out of US forever. Mr Trump is doing so well in polls in US they exaggerated what he said to try and make him fall in polls. That’s our government at work for you! They have to exaggerate to make someone look bad…
yes, it must be terribly difficult to make Mr Trump look bad. So – aside from his occasional sexist/racist/intolerant remarks, what did you think of the BBC Panorama programme seemingly linking him with organised crime?
That bog-head Trump should face a global ban.
Suzanne Kelly – Love U.
I noticed a conspicous absence of front-page commentary from the P and J and Evening Express whilst national papers ran headlines about his xenophobic comments. These two local papers backed the man and were very biased in his favour in spite of his bullying behaviour and destruction of a site of special scientific interest. A man with his wealth could have built anywhere he wanted and landscaped it to his requirements, the original nature of those dunes didn’t even matter to their final configuration, I think he just wanted to fight, and to win, against environmental law and the will of the people who lived there. If you haven’t seen “You’ve been Trumped” I can recommend it as a very good film.
Thank you for this Fred. I must share. And I do like Bob’s “Richt Gits University” – seems appropriate.
Good to see that there are decent people out there as well as the headbangers!
I wrote asking if you was going to start a petition banning Franklin Graham from Scotland ,as he has the same opinion on Islam as D T , but no reply
so very sorry not to have responded sooner; there are just one or two comments besides yours, and we’ve been slightly busy. In fact, the current petition is taking a wee bit of time. Why don’t you do your own petition? Oh, and at the risk of being repetitive, the petition was lodged before, not after the Muslim remarks. All the best
Good on ya Suzanne!, stop this IMO half witted moron, who is a fat, over indulged ugly twitt with fake hair. Said I would never stoop as low as he does, but then he appears to bring out the worst in everyone! It does appear he has damaged his own interests all over the World so one could say he is “self destructing” already. [moderated]
Suzanne, I am proud of you. You have been working hard for years uncovering -and fighting against – scandals in Aberdeen(shire), from so-called animal protection organisations which in reality sell animals for slaughter to the local College banning feminist artwork to Donald Trump treating the locals like dirt – whilst at the same time receiving an honorary degree from his pal at the Robert Gordon University ( RGU) – a highly controversial move by the university.
The former principal of RGU (bravely and rightly) handed back his own honorary doctorate at the time in protest against Trump receiving one. But you achieved what Dr David Kennedy unfortunately didn’t. With your petition you put enough pressure on the university for them to realise their serious error of judjement and as a result they stripped Donald Trump off this award. Well done.
As for the other petition, which asks to ban Trump from entering the UK, I agree with you that we don’t need misogynistic, mexicophobic, anti-disabled people here who act against the UK laws against spreading hate. His anti-muslim comments, which he has made after the launch of your petition, only add weight to the argument. But really the international media (and others who are now jumping on the bandwagon) should have pro-actively been condemning his behaviour. Thank you for giving them all a good kick up the arse! 🙂
I am totally against the proposal,I think it is all about platform decommissioning and heavy industry and I can’t see it happening without great disturbancs in the Torry area especially Victoria bridge and Victoria Road which is busy as it is , without the increase in traffic that will inevitably happen .As for cruise ships I think the given estimate is far larger than expected.I have been going around the bay of Nigg and Walkers Park since I was a child and would not like the proposed development to happen.
I /we are totally disgusted and sick to our stomach forever Complaining about the Stink that the sewage Factory is Causing (With no one accepting the Blame and No proper explanation answers to forever asked questions) ,This is going to be the first point that any future development work whether it is a New Harbour or whatever is /has been planed for the future of Torry and of course the Torry resident’s
Torry’s future Housing plan’s either Selling or Buying have/s fallen Sharply because of the sewage factory .granted that there is some sort of park BUT who wants to walk or play in that area? ..anyway ..
go to Duthie park/Seaton park ..NO smell there …I/we are not against the planning of the future of torry .
but we are against (all Torry residents) that I know of ..of the smell ..caused by the factory,,what about investigating how many new born children defects there are including Stillborn since the sewage company have opened ,,the air can not be healthy to breath ..what dangers are there ? caused by them …it is not safe for our people to go down to the Bay of Nigg ,So how on earth can it be safe to work down there or to make future plans ? I would like to be kept up to date/feedback on these matters concerned as would others ,and to see proof of investigation ,as there is nothing at the moment
Your website’s been accessed and vandalised a little. The site would’ve received and be receiving lots of hits while this anti prejudice petition (against Trump) is still live. When trying to access your home page to read more about Aberdeen Voice and see what the hame page offers, the screen just shows a repeated array of dots, dashes and other assorted keyboard symbols, hope you can sort this out as i’d like to read more of your webazine. Yours –
thanks for getting in touch. Our humble site end to do that if demand gets very high; we’ve had a tech person looking into this for months (Rob – you there ? 🙂 )
This is exactly what i had, which i mentioned in a message on facebook Suzanne. I think it could be something to do with windows vista and internet explorer 9. I don’t think windows vista can update explorer upwards of 9, And alot fo websites are withdrawing support for IE9. i managed to view this site using Google Chrome though 🙂
The more I think about it, the more I think the destruction and ‘plans’ the powers that be have for Torry, isn’t just an issue for the people if Torry, it’s an issue for the whole of Aberdeen, particularly if that incinerator gets the go ahead (some think both are linked)…. The fumes won’t just effect Torry, they will go all over the city. The people of Cove, Kincorth, Porthlen should also be consulted.
We’ll all need ‘direct buses’ to the hospital !
Luxury yachts landing next to a huge incinerator…..not happening.
HOW UTTERLY PATHETIC!
This country is kowtowing to Muslims so much, even though it is obvious they hate our country and their biggest desire is to change it to meet their own needs. Politicians seem intent upon allowing them to do so, but even that is not good enough for them.
Then we get a very influential American politician, who obviously cares very deeply about his country, make a comment that he would like to, temporarily, stop more of them from entering the US. Dear Lord you would think he had killed someone, the hysterior from “certain individuals” is so incredible.There is nothing wrong with the statement, only the left, the media lovies, and Muslims themselves actually by into this impertinent pc bullshit.
As for dear old Suzanne, you are an insignificant little bum wipe, get over yourself…
Thank for your comment; I only wish it had come in sooner; could have used it a an example of sweeping xenophobia in my last Old Susannah column. Anyway. I am completely insignificant – on my own. But I’m not alone so it seems. Impertinent? To use a democratic tool? Disagree. ‘The Muslims?’ – who are THE Muslims. There are terrorists claiming to be Muslim, but there is no more such a thing as THE Muslims as there is THE Christians (well, ok there is the band The Christians) or indeed THE Left. I’m glad you think Trump cares deeply about his / my country. I kind of care for the people who have been caught up in financial turmoil when his companies have gone bankrupt, on several occasions. I wonder how deeply his concern is for the welfare of Atlantic City, but that’s another matter.
I’m only an amateur writer/journalist, but somehow I sense a connection to a presidential candidate saying Muslims should not be allowed in the US and the recent acts of arsons at mosques. Do you think hate speech is something anyone would bother with if they didn’t think their words would have impact? How long before someone is actually killed, I shudder to think? But to do absolutely nothing and watch as that man gets close to being Commander in Chief and having his finger on the button; I’d do anything legal to stand up against that.
‘Impertinent?’ bet on it, you bigoted, illogical twerp. – Suzanne
I /we are totally disgusted and sick to our stomach forever Complaining about the Stink that the sewage Factory is Causing (With no one accepting the Blame and No proper explanation answers to forever asked questions) ,This is going to be the first point that any future development work whether it is a New Harbour or whatever is /has been planed for the future of Torry and of course the Torry resident’s
Torry’s future Housing plan’s either Selling or Buying have/s fallen Sharply because of the sewage factory .granted that there is some sort of park BUT who wants to walk or play in that area? ..anyway ..
go to Duthie park/Seaton park ..NO smell there …I/we are not against the planning of the future of torry .
but we are against (all Torry residents) that I know of ..of the smell ..caused by the factory,,what about investigating how many new born children defects there are including Stillborn since the sewage company have opened ,,the air can not be healthy to breath ..what dangers are there ? caused by them …it is not safe for our people to go down to the Bay of Nigg ,So how on earth can it be safe to work down there or to make future plans ? I would like to be kept up to date/feedback on these matters concerned as would others ,and to see proof of investigation ,as there is nothing at the moment
NIce one Fred! Bob would approve.
Get crowd funding.Take this all the way to the highest court in the land.
Test out inherant rights of access and use of land.Who genuinely owns whatbland?
Take ‘Trumpism ‘to task.
Good wishes
If you was to get a petition started to sack them at Aberdeenshire planning for failing to make sure trump stuck to the plans then i would certainly sign that too 🙂
That sure is a Christmas Cracker
You should read Eric cables comment on facebook properly before making false accusations.
sure. Like the time he hinted he wanted an AK-47 to solve a problem (problem discussed was Aberdeen Voice?) And for those interested in the Northfield saga, as old as this particular article is, don’t worry: I’ve been a touch busy, but further analysis can’t be far away.
These people claim to want a democracy and free speech, well that means standing shoulder to shoulder with someone who’s comments so repulse you. That is free speech. I welcome Donald Trump
Some of ‘these people’ have watched with dismay as mosques have been vandalised and Muslims in parts of the US were attacked – following Trump’s inciteful, hateful prejudicial remarks. Does your concept of free speech allow someone to yell ‘FIRE’ in a crowded building? Freedoms all come with responsibilities. And yes, Trump’s comments repulse me. Lots. As well as most things about the man. Tally ho – Suzanne
;We know from our struggle to stop the fast link that stopping these so called developments is not easy as you are up against big money and even the government.We look at all the reports on how the environment will be protected and how local people will be effected to a minimum but the reality is far different,masses of lorrys noise, pollution in the burns and much more land destroyed than promised and more to come , as it stands we cant see that the estimated costs will be kept to but these figures are normally made to look better than they really are.All the best in your campaign. City’s have little enough spaces like Nigg without more being lost for ever and the local people gaining nothing.
Trump is the only hope for America. The country has become a Socialistic near bankrupt nation. We don’t want that anymore. I don’t know anyone who isn’t voting for him.
Well done Suzanne, and I sincerely hope thos will not be a “fixed” debate with a decision already made to ignore over half a million people
STOP PRESS – This evening the Trump organisation threatened to pull its investment out of Scotland if The Donald were to be banned UK entry. Here’s what I say to that – Suzanne
Donald Trump is a man that knows the cost of everything – well, a hugely inflated cost of everything – and the value of nothing. Let’s look at what he’s actually chosen to do today. He’s threatening Scotland once again as he did over the offshore windfarms that if he is barred from entering the UK, he’ll pull out of his Scottish Golf courses. The irony of a man who wants to ban Muslims from entering the US throwing a temper tantrum over being similarly banned himself is apparent to everyone except the tycoon himself.
Perhaps a man who is actually suitable presidential material might have done things differently – and instead of issuing hollow economic threats would have profusely apologised for painting all Muslims as terrorists who need to be monitored and kept out of America. As to the value of these investments, we were promised thousands of permanent jobs (although I believe many would be cleaning toilets and bedrooms). We were promised millions flowing into our economy every year. What is the reality? A man who’s stopped our experimental offshore wind farm programme thereby costing thousands of jobs and who has cost untold sums in fighting his court appeals, which finally failed. The course at Menie is thought to have lost £2 million last year. Jobs? Other than hiring Sarah Malone, wife of Aberdeen Journals Ltd’s Damian Bates, what permanent, desirable jobs have been created? How do the jobs created weigh against the jobs in the energy sector his appeals are costing? How does his investment compare to the cleaner energy we might be enjoying? For me, even if half of his figures stacked up – there is no amount of money that for me will ever undue the environmental damage at Menie. If our electors value money more than the rights of Muslims – and everyone else he has denigrated, then we may need new electors. Some might consider this to be blackmail on his part – and as such there’s more than a little deja vu along with it. Pull his investments? I should think he’s got no choice: who on earth will be playing at a Trump course now?
Well said,, agree with you 100%
What about the other petition, the British petition asking for Trump to be ALLOWED TO ENTER THE UK.
WELCOME DONALD TRUMP, AN HONEST SPEAKING MAN!!!
Here’s the results for Donald Trump and lies – https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=donald+trump+and+lies – enjoy perusing this ‘honest speaking man’s’ catalogue of exaggeration, mis statements, inaccuracies and some would say outright lies. But yes, you tell yourself he’s honest speaking. Which particular ‘honest’ statement of his do you particularly gel with? Would love to know
Think long and hard before you offend Mr. Trump and his supporters. He may well win the election and if he does there will be demands for retaliation against the UK. Suzanne Kelly would be well-advised to never set foot outside the UK again, at least not where we can get our hands on her. Americans have had just about enough guff from leftist Marxist morons in the UK and we may get it into our heads to rescue the Mother Country from the lunatics currently running it. We have vast cotton fields where the likes of Ms. Kelly can turn their hands to profitable labor.
Hello all; am approving this. And quite probably reporting it as a threat to the relevant people. Scary Trump supporters are out there. This is one. Thankfully, they usually show their true colours and intellectual prowess, and thus reassure me that I’m right
For a so-called journalist you have very poor grammar. I guess you’re UK educated. Or maybe, you are like other liberals who can only communicate in 140 characters or less eh?
so, you’re not much of a fan of free speech then 🙂 Don’t worry, you’ll have a chance to explain your position in depth very soon. Ps – are you in South America, or is that just where your IP is routed through? Ta
You harp on free speech but want to call out The Donald for exercising free speech. Who’s the hypocrite.
from reader Mark Gardiner: Well Mr bridges I would pint out SK is one of your own. New York born and bred. She’s one of your own and has every right to exercise her freedom of speech I believe your country is big on that. As for the threats it idiots like yourself who shame your country with these ignorant threats. DT is a big boy and I’m sure he will manage to shake off the criticism, idiots like you on the other scare the rest of the world because you could put that nut job in the white house.
from reader Mark Gardiner: Well Mr bridges I would pint out SK is one of your own. New York born and bred. She’s one of your own and has every right to exercise her freedom of speech I believe your country is big on that. As for the threats it idiots like yourself who shame your country with these ignorant threats. DT is a big boy and I’m sure he will manage to shake off the criticism, idiots like you on the other scare the rest of the world because you could put that (IMO) nut job in the white house.
What a pointless petition.This has nothing to do with what D T said in his speech ref a ban on -immigration until they know whats going on in the U S.
I think this lassie S K has a deeper issue with D T.
By jumping on the sensitive subject of ……..religion or culture call it what you will.
Setting a petition to ban someone for their views, after all it’s just one mans opinion. Could the same be directed at you S K ? Could the people that disagree with your point of view get you shipped out to a let say for argument sake, the warmer climes of Middle Eastern country as it seems your views obviously very strong and you will certainly not be bothered by D T.
Trump is not, in the context in which he said these despicable things ‘just a man’. He is asking to become one of the most powerful politicians in the world.
To get there, he is trading upon his record as a ‘successful businessman’. Our knowledge of him here is not of him as such. He has proven himself time and time again as a bully and braggart.
I wouldn’t let him run a tea shop , let alone a country.
Anything we can do to highlight this specimens enormities is a good deed – both fir the Menie residents and the good people of the USA.
On another point.
If I was being (wrongly petitioned) banned from a country that I had invested money etc… I would be a Mug not to withdrew my investment and put it elsewhere.
For you to accuse me of a temper tantrum is plain stupid.
I think you are the one to have the hissie fit.
Lets say you had a house with beautiful furniture and you where told to leave the house as you were no longer a desirable resident, for whatever reason.
Would you leave your beautiful furniture in this house etc ….? Of course you wouldn’t.
So if D T wants to take his money he has every right to.
For you to try and score out of this by dressing it up as a tantrum. What does this make you.
He does not have to apologies to anyone for what he said in my opinion…. Get it ” my opinion”.
Andy from Central Scotland
Why should SK be banned from her home? DT is not a UK resident he is an egotistcal man who thinks wealth can buy him the right to spew hate speeches.
if DT wants to leave his Scotland investments, then fine. If the Menie Golf Course is truly a world-class course, then someone will buy it, and leave the overblown housing plans to moulder. If it’s not, then the dunes will reclaim it, as they rightfully should. The whole place was probably just a tax write-off for him anyway, seeing how little investment he made as compared to what he promised. As for world-famous, historic Turnberry, do you honestly think there’s NO OTHER billionaire in the whole world who wouldn’t buy Turnberry? Someone who’d buy it and remove the ‘Trump’ from ‘Trump Turnberry’ and turn it back into a prestigious establishment again. Trump’s got his name on far too many buildings and enterprises in this world. Scotland can survive being a Trump-free zone!
I do hope Andy g that you are never subject to such hate speech where you fear for the lives of your family and yourself because someone doesn’t like your skin colour, race or religion. I for one signed to ban DT as he is not the kind of man I want walking the streets of our country. I personally would love a world were such awful crimes don’t exist but unfortunately they do, having a man on a podium saying what he wants to do scares the life out of me. I commend Suzanne for all that she has done its about time someone stood up too DT and over 580 000 folk can’t all be deluded!
Lara Brown – Aberdeenshire
Someone has to stand up to the radicals Laura, look at the problems in Germany over new year and the mass slaughters in Paris last year, the left wing look the other way view isn’t going to make the problem go away, I’d suggest it has helped spread the problem.
Good on Mr Trump for not bowing to terrorists, unfettered immigration as allowed by Merkel is only making the problem more widespread, that Trump doesn’t want that happening to his own Country should be applauded.
Have you visited the sanctuary recently to check whether these animals are there?
Hello Gillian, I am not going to visit; thank you all the same. The animals that were shown in the photographs are definitely not there – because the photos of the Shetland ponies that were used in the appeals had nothing to do with Northfield, as proven. They did not need rehoming. Some are well homed in Wales; some are well homed in the Shetlands. Other animals NAH had shown in photos that were actually of animals on its working farm but shown on the charity appeals were likely put on dinner plates when sold at Thainstone. Other animals in photos that NAH appropriated without permission from the web are quite probably dead. Is it OK with you that someone raises lambs to be killed and uses the profits to ‘save’ other animals that they ask for donations for? Tell me how that works. PS – have you visited the people who were tricked out of thousands of pounds? They are still there – well, two sadly are not. They passed away. PS – if you are commenting on this article, it is presumed you read it and saw how photos which had absolutely nothing to do with Northfield were used by the for fundraising – is that fine with you? It’s not fine with the owners, some of whom are still thinking about legal action, as they have told me. What’s your take on that? Suzanne Kelly
PPS – congratulations ‘gillianstrachan82@hotmail.com’ you are the first ever email address that I’ve searched for on the internet without finding a single, solitary match. Did you just open an account my dear? It really is very uncommon. Either you just opened an account, or you have managed to hide your email address from the entire http://www….
What a ridiculous suggestion to ban Mr Trump the right to travel, reeks of personal agendas and no surprise to see who started the petition.
It really is ironic, Mr Trump suggested barring unknown Muslims from coming to the States and it is met by a response suggesting we do the same to him coming to our Country, can’t you see how illogical that is??
The authors hatred of Mr Trump is nothing more than a dummy spitting exercise imo, she was defeated over Menie and can’t move on from it.
Another liberal idiot posing as a journalist. What did you tell Bill O’Reilly? You’re an unpaid journalist. What does that make you? A liberal blogger with a weak opinion. You and your sorry a$$ supporters stay in the UK. The next time you need saving the USA should tell you to fvck off. If not for the USA saving the UK TWICE, you’d be speaking German…
If your belief that DT “hate” speech causes violence and for that he should be banned, then certainly you should be looking at any and all Imam’s who spew “hate” and, in essence, push their followers to the ISIS fight. You must admit that those imam’s speaking about challenging government policy’s in the name of Islamn can be construed by some as a call to become militant by joining ISIS. You can see the effect the Imam’s speech’s have. Surely you are smart enough to see that… With you acting as the speech police,judge and jury when it comes to identifying “hate” speech, I am sure dissident voices will be silenced and there will be no more Paris or Belgium tragedies.
I had the misfortune of hearing Suzanne’s psuedo-intelligence on display on U.S. TV this evening where she characterized Trump’s policies (many of which I do not support) as “hate speech” rather than policy statements with which she disagrees. This presumes Suzanne has some divine omnipotent knowledge of Trump’s deepest motives (and that he is lying since he attributes his statements to policy positions required by current circumstances), which I hope she will share with the world, as she could solve many of our most egregious problems.
The other alternative is that Suzanne is simply an arrogant and condescending person who presumes a divine ability to intuit motives, and further still, presumes to prejudge emotions (hate) from another person’s words policy statements (interesting how many Muslims and Hispanics Trump employs despite this “hate”).
Citing an alleged incident where someone was beaten in Boston while citing Trump’s immigrant policy statement, she characterizes this as Trump’s responsibility. I wonder if someone attacked Trump based on her hate speech about him (the examples are obvious based on her criteria) if she would surrender herself to authorities and claim responsibility?
In the post above mine she actually calls a commenter a “bigoted, illogical” twerp…gee Suzanne sounds like hate speech and someone who should be banned or exported so fewer are around to require some logical or deductive reasoning from you beyond just calling people names (you will note she does not cite or argue the policies based on any facts…she just knows they are prompted by “hate.”
Suzanne calling someone prejudiced, bigoted and illogical is a priceless example I can use as an example for students studying psychology (Jungian projection of shadow), that is the one benefit I gained from hearing her deep intellectual and tolerant speech firsthand,.
Ms. Kelly complains about Trump, yet it is the UK that is being overrun with the Sharia loving hoards. I think Ms.Kelly is wrong headed liberal that just loves finding another reason to hate the US.
In America, we have a very good rule, which is that one may say whatever one wishes, so
long as one’s words do not create a “clear & present” danger of violence or serious injury,
as when one falsely cries “fire!” in a crowded theater. In all other cases, Thomas Jefferson’s
dictum applies: that the proper corrective of vile or irresponsible speech is the antiseptic
effect of sunlight & fresh air. In other words, a thorough ventilation. AS to whether being in
HM realm is a privilege or not, my cousins in Cros Mhic Lionnáin might venture an opinion, to
which I would defer.
Alba abú!
Eoin MagRáighne
PS. A tip of the hat to Suzanne Kelly, a good Manx name!
Are you a USA citizen? If not, mind your own business. You have no idea what WE as Americans are dealing with immigration of Mexicans and OUR issues of Muslims and the problems we are having in oUR country!!! So shut your mouth and keep your opinion to yourself and in Scotland. Your a disgrace to journalism. We have freedom of spearheaded and freedom of policies here. You are the person spraining hate! You are the hater. Thank God you are not a hater journalist here… Stay in Scotland!!!
Greetings from America: In regards to Donald Trump and your petition to ban him from the United Kingdom. First of all let me say I think you may be confused, you claimed that Muslims are a “race” on The O’Reilly factor. A race of what? We currently have our own immigration issues and a government that chooses to enforce the laws they agree with. Trump called for a moratorium on Muslim immigration because we dont need or want the rape culture that now prevails in Germany and until we can properly “vet” these people, Its a good idea.
hi im one of the drill crew that was onboard for the discovery .and took part in making forty years of forties….rob (swede) lingard..retired toolpusher…
I guess Susanne Kelly has no idea Trump’s Mother was from Scotland. And also. why didnt someone start a petition when Obama said his grandmother showed ‘typical white behavior?’ he said this when he ran against Hilliary Clinton. Obama hates his white heritage as Hitler hated his Jewish heritage. Also, Obama insulted Christians at the National Prayer breakfast and never apologized. Kelly is targeting the wrong person as a hater. Trump said there will be a ‘golden doo for those who wish to enter the USa legally.” i guess Kelly completely missed this one. She is wrongfully trying to ruin Trump.
Sorry about the typo. i meant to say Trump said there will be a ‘golden door for those who wish to become a USA citizen legally.” Sorry about teh above typo error.
Although i do not believe Suzanne Kelly would EVER actually want to debate her views on immigration & race, she is publicly acting like she would love to have one, She is the first leftist to ever insinuate that they are not afraid of a debate, and i think she’s bluffing
SET UP AN ONLINE LIVE CHAT DEBATE – you name the time/format
hello, I think you will find me ready to debate the pros and cons of the two Trump-related petitions. 🙂 with a Trump spokesperson or the author of the pro Trump petition. Anytime 🙂
I recently discovered that DT’s mother comes from Tunga on the Isle of Leodhas & SK is
treating him as if he were a wee wee German lairdie. Shame, I say!
Pardon this descent into silliness, but I just remembered someone’s having mentioned the
name Mac Crocodile, at some point in the past. Just for the fun of it I’d like to know if any
reader can identify the said person and/or the context wherein his name occurs. Aficionados
of a certain type should know the answer. To give a clue- the name is somehow related to
the Scottish or Irish name: MacGuffin or McGuffin.
Alba abú!
Eoin
It’s a slow night, folks. Look, I take a dim view of a jock who is named after a fish. Although
the Old Irish word ‘eo’ [salmon] metaphorically can mean a ‘prince’ [v. The Voyage of Bran].
And of course, in Irish mythology, there is the Salmond of Knowledge, who knew everything.
How fishy _is_ Alex, by the way?
As a rule, I am generally disinclined to support the banning of individuals, no matter how abhorrent, inflammatory or deliberately provocative their views, not least because I believe everyone has a right to express their views freely and without fear of repercussion. I am, however, willing to make an exception when it comes to Donald Trump, on the basis of consistency, good taste, decency and my own shamelessly excessive and spiralling contempt for the man.
I would, however, given the erstwhile history of publicly requited love and admiration between Mr Trump and Alex Salmond and particularly at a time when Mr Salmond is using Aberdeen Voice to try and publicly distance himself from his former unscrupulous and disreputable racist billionaire of choice, be willing to support the call for a ban on Mr Trump if such a ban could be extended to include his ex golfing buddy, ex First Minister Alex Salmond MP, MSP, Shock Jock etc as well.
It was, of course, the bold Mr Salmond who championed Mr Trump, repeated his false assertions of thousands of jobs and untold riches for the North East, and held private meetings with him prior to the unprecedented Scottish Government decision to breach all planning law and legal protection in relation to an important area of our national heritage by calling in an application that had been properly, legally and democratically rejected by the relevant local authority.That the ex First Minister stood idly by as his emboldened and empowered favourite tycoon went on to ride roughshod over the rights and property of Mr Salmond’s own constituents does, in my humble opinion, suggest that Mr Salmond might be culpable in the nurturing of the apparent Trump megalomania and his ambition to become leader of the “Free World”
Were this not enough, searching questions are now being publicly asked in relation to alleged inconsistencies between Mr Salmond’s promise to donate the publicly funded salary and pension he receives for not being an MSP at Holyrood, to charity and the income and expenditure accounts of the promised beneficiary. Even were such allegations to be false, one can only conclude that Mr Salmond deserves to be banned for his hypocrisy alone.
I really would like to share your words Bruce Wood. This is one of the best responses I have read re the Trump debacle, and one which exposes the role of Salmond, who is, as ever, jumping on the bandwagon and will, in all probability, try to make out it was his idea in the first place to banTrump. He like the man he let loose on the Menie estate, is quite shameless in his assertions. There is one SNP devotee who near enough every day sings the praises on AV facebook page, of Salmond, despite being told and shown repeatedly how his hero has feet of clay, will not ever listen to reason. I shall probably quote one or two of your more choice phrases to him. I especially do like ……”given the erstwhile history of publicly requited love and admiration…….”
Hi Dorothy,
As a fully paid up member of the dogmatic Facebook Resistance movement, I am unaware of the individual you refer to or the sentiments he expresses. Feel free to share but, as you will already know, the myopia and denial of some of the more radical adherents to the nationalist cause can be extremely resistant to factual information and/or knowledge.
Trump is 4 times bankrupt now. The UK does not deserve that!
It is absurd to claim that the mere fact of allowing DT to cross the border implies some sort of
_association_ between DT & Scotland. Even Mr. Salmond would have to concede that allowing
someone to enter your country falls far short of an official endorsement of his or her views. Thus,
it is absurd to claim that the mere presence of DT in Scotland would be “damaging” to the land of
Roibert a Briuis. I fear that Mr. Salmond’s view is more likely related to the pusillanimous injunction which prevails in Europe nowadays: whatever you do, don’t draw a cartoon. Get the reference, folks?
Alba abú!
Eoin
Oddly, while I strongly oppose the antics of the Mannie Trump, I have not signed this Petition. His views are highly distasteful generally ,and particularly in relation to Muslims, Mexicans and the Disabled. However, has he crossed the line where admission to the UK is a threat to Public Order? By a narrow margin, I don’t think he has…yet. I am keen to see where Mr Gladwin – that name rings a bell somewhere, but I can’t be bothered finding out why – gets his support from. If nothing else, the Petition shows how inimical the Mannie Trum is to values of fairness and tolerance in this country. Irrespective of whether he or Cruz succeed, the Republican Party will find that is true for the bulk of USAShire too.
thanks – just in case you didn’t know, in August in Boston, a homeless Hispanic man was set to by two men with metal poles. They beat him; they broke his nose. The attack was unprovoked. The two men were arrested and told the police ‘Donald Trump is right – we have too many immigrants.’ Trump’s hatemongering is turning into acts of violence, there is no doubt. Under UK law, a ban is more than reasonable. – Suzanne Kelly
It is excruciatingly embarrassing, yet somehow deliciously amusing, to read of this spat between the former golfing buddies and good chums. Lest we forget, it was the Alex Salmond led Scottish Government which empowered and enabled the Donald to build his golf course in the exact spot demanded by The Specious One, to subsequently overcome legal and planning restrictions, to dismiss both local and national democracy as an irrelevance, to commit acts of vandalism, to abuse and breach the human rights of property owners in the immediate vicinity of his golf course, to routinely disregard local planning law, to instruct police officers to look the other way when property owners were forced to watch their properties being debased and their views and water supplies being illegally interrupted and, last but not least, to apparently ensure that journalists were arrested and detained for the heinous crime of investigating such legalised thuggery.
Now the same Alex Salmond, who falsely claimed to have legal advice on the EU membership rights of an independent Scotland, who falsely claimed that anyone who suggested that the price of oil might fall below $100 was “scaremongering” and whose lack of any economic or political justification for leaving the UK might suggest his lifelong ambition is founded on nothing more than race, denounces his erstwhile favourite billionaire as a racist.
Perhaps there is a difference between the xenophobic racism of Trump and what might possibly be termed the civic racism of Salmond and I would be delighted if Mr Salmond were to use his declared fondness for debate to define it?
Jeremy Corbyn is courting Trump because he thinks he will be investing here as Alex Salmond did. The difference is Alex Salmond now sees him for what he is, a bigot, racist, sexist. Why can Corbyn not see this and why do you not condemn Corbyn as you do Alex Salmond. And why not give Alex Salmond credit for his stance now. Corbyn invited Trump to London prior to todays debate, not much chance of him being banned from the UK then. Will he speak out in his favour, he certainly wont be voting to keep him out. If anyone is an embarrassment it is Corbyn.
Hi Bert,
I was unaware of Mr Corbyn’s overt support for Donald Trump and am similarly unaware of his involvement in the provision of articles, on the subject of Donald Trump, in Aberdeen Voice or anywhere else. I would be happy to respond in condemnation of Mr Corbyn,should he ever take the opportunity to do so.
Far from giving Alex Salmond credit for his rank hypocrisy and failure to acknowledge his own prominent role in promoting and propagating the Trump propaganda and false promises, i would further condemn him for his opportunistic and publicity seeking grandstanding on an issue which should both shame and haunt him.
Alex Salmond, in my own humble opinion, has lied and continues to lie, on a grand scale, to the people of Scotland, to further his doomed ideological obsession and to further inflate an ego, the enormity of which is totally at odds with his level of competence and credibility.
Build a heritage centre on whats left of the drying area. No way, that area is part of the beauty of the port. Leave it alone.
It appears that my most recent comments have been banned. So much for open dialogue &
free debate, eh? Even the preposterous David Cameron couldn’t stomach the bill of attainder
which SK proposed against DT. Good for him! Bye bye, Aberdeen Voice.
10 The Crown still owns around 50% of the 18,000 km length of Scotland’s foreshore (Fig.5). The foreshore is defined in Scots law as the area of shore between the high and low water marks of ordinary spring tides, and it forms the boundary between the marine and terrestrial halves of Scotland’s land area. The exceptions to the Crown’s ownership of the foreshore are of two main types. Firstly, there is no Crown foreshore in the Northern Isles under udal tenure, where ownership of the foreshore goes with the ownership of the adjoining land. Secondly, there are the many parts of the rest of Scotland’s foreshore that have been acquired from the Crown by other land owners, much of it in the 19th century.
Brilliantly incisive 😉
do you mean me or Sarah? – Suzanne (thanks)
Highly convincing – reads almost as if you’d been listening in(?) Maybe the Trumpton Clubhouse will be renamed the Bates Motel in their honour?
Darn! I wish I’d have thought of ‘Bates Motel’ – ten points! – Suzanne
Come come now, the owner of the Bates Motel was inclined to wear strange headgear, talk to or about his mother a lot and interrupt the water supplies of unsuspecting individuals, albeit only when they were taking a shower.
I just can’t see the similarity!
Your account of one of your hikes once took me to the top of Kerloch – I felt I was climbing with you the stone-strewn path through the trees. Now, I’m sitting down beside you in contemplation, and I am moved by the beauty of your poetry.
Oil was never the ‘be all or end all’ for an Independent Scotland may I firstly say folks-we can and could always do better as an Independent Country and I still believe that firmly. Great read,and very informative..the only thing I would disagree with within which I have read is within this article is the comparison between Westminster and the Scottish parliament..how on earth could they control Westminster plans without Full control over,in this case-oil? As Stan describes above,it is exactly the same in most towns and cities within Scotland and it’s heartbreaking to know that we could have put an end to Scotland constantly being short changed via Independence. We will Always be in this situ folks..unless We as a nation change that once and for all..have many friends in Aberdeen,lived in the central belt.the east neuk of Fife and back(currently in North Lanarkshire where you wouldn’t believe the hardship amongst folk)..next time maybe? Certainly hope so..
Aberdeen city council are useless dunderheads, union street looks like a dump, full of crap, like the council, the bridge of Dee bridge in the middle of dual carriageways is a disgrace forcing trucks to drive around town. They wasted the all taxes for years, down the drain on what?? The bypass is twenty years too late. Idiots. They should be sacked, not to mention the planners, they should be the first cuts.k
could not agree more
Hopefully you’ll be so passionate when it comes to seeing hate preachers already in our Country kicked out, or perhaps stopping Isil supporters from returning here.
The one sided attack has became ever so tiring imo, you don’t like him, we get it.
Bill … errr sorry, George Smith …. yep, that’s right … if you could be bothered to read responses to your comments you would be aware that we rumbled your new identity some time ago ( you really need to change your IP address … Oh sorry, it was your work computer .. sorry).
It is no surprise you defend Trump – you are not averse yourself to spouting sexist, racist remarks online which has been raised here already. We cant kick such people out of the country George, but we can at least ditch them from our own pages so when it comes to banning hate speech, you might need to take care what you wish for or you might be well ahead of the queue.
What’s that? not in the queue? … Oh … of course … you’re already banned … run along now and crow to yer fitba forum chums …. bye bye.
Aw gee whiz Fred, you said if he came back I could keep him, at least for a while. I miss his intellect, his incisive grasp of situations, his ability to entertain two sides of an argument. My usual discussions with him run like this:
George: You’re all a bunch of leftists and Aberdeen Voice pushes a leftist agenda. You don’t speak for me.
Me: George, we print what we get – why don’t you write an article about your well-rounded, educated views?
George: Don’t wanna
Me: Then you can’t really complain we’re not printing articles that suit you. We do print your comments.
George: Er.
I miss all that. I’m sure he’ll return. I hope he watches the Channel 4 programme on Trump tomorrow night. George is sad that I attack powerful people rather than tugging my forelock at them. If he still feels that way after watching this programme tomorrow, that’ll tell me all I need to know about him – Suzanne
What’s the emblem on the circle at the top?
Sorry – to be clear, I mean the emblem in the fountain.
The Devil wears Prada or a whiter than white shirt. But that still makes that ruthless individual Trump still the biggest bag of dangerous shirt without the r to touch Scottish soil in a long while.
No wonder he is scared of ‘terrorists’. He should also be scared of non terrorists. I wonder how much it costs him every day to buy yes sayers and corrupt folk…God or Allah or whatever help America -and us- if he should win the election. Still keeping faith in the American (wo)man on the streets…keep up the good work, Suzanne. I would dearly like to sign your petition to keep him out of the UK, Europe -in fact pledge for shooting him to some desolate planet where the sage locals could take good care of him. Let him try build his golf courses there!
Best regards,
Sigi (in Germany)
And the citizens of Aberdeen have lost an important recreational resource (many more people are interested in walking, jogging, and sunbathing than play golf.
Quote: ‘Had Mr Trump been a more reasonable individual, a golf course could have been built at Menie without touching the Site of Special Scientific Interest or adversely affecting his neighbours.’
How reasonable were the majority of Aberdeenshire Councillors who pushed to allow planning permission?
3 local landfill sites and an open cast quarry which have done more to ruin and “vandalise” the area than a golf course ever will. No Press comment on them. The councillors should be so proud approving those!
Alan,
Would you mind explaining how many of these landfill sites and quarries were created on sites of special scientific interest, on which all development was forbidden by the highest possible level of legal protection preventing the lawful approval by local councils, how many were rejected by local councils only to be “called in” by the Scottish Government prior to the developer receiving written notification of refusal, thereby rendering the “calling in” process unlawful, how many included false guarantees of billion dollar investments and thousands of jobs, such promises being made by both the developer and Scottish Government, how many led to the deliberate vandalism and harassment of neighbouring residents, how many saw the arrest and detention of investigative journalists at the apparent behest of the developer……
I could go on but would be happy if you could possibly address these small points for the purpose of justifying your analogy.
Please exciuse my clumsy language Alan. To clarify, the “calling in” would have been rendered unlawful had the developer received written notification of rejection prior to the Scottish Government decision to “call it in”.
It is my opinion, and the opinion of most neutral and informed observers, that the Scottish Government, following a meeting between Alex Salmond and Donald Trump on the Sunday following the inevitable rejection, knew they had to move quickly as the only way they could intervene legally, on behalf of Mr Trump, would be to announce the “calling in” prior to Mr Trump receiving such written notification, in other words immediately.
So one further question: Do you know any other potential developers who have been granted a personal audience with a First Minister, followed by the overt and vocal support of the First Minister and Scottish Government?
This is CBD oil only, and not cannabis oil. CBD is only one of the cannabinoids found in Cannabis, but you are certainly misleading people by telling them that “Cannabis oil is now legal in the United Kingdom”. That is not something that you should be doing. Many illnesses need both THC and CBD to be effective and you should not be advertising in this way.
This is the same tactics that oil scammers use by suggesting that they are supplying cannabis oil when they are not.
From Suzanne Kelly: I see what you’re saying – but as far as implying there are misleading tactics about the THC not being in the oil – did you get as far as the third paragraph: “It is up to anyone with an illness to make the decision to use cannabis oil themselves and/or with their medical practitioner. The THC in cannabis, which results in the ‘high’, is removed from medical cannabis oil products.” -(I could change it to read “‘these’ cannabis oil products” instead of “medical cannabis oil products” – but that’s rather splitting hairs as the THC issue has been spelled out. Additionally, the UK’s media have used the phrase ‘cannabis oil’ in a huge amount of articles heralding the legalistion of the oil – https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cannabis+oil+legal+in+uk – if this article, spelling out as it does that THC is not in the oil is misleading for reporting that ‘cannabis oil is now legal in the UK’ – then you have a few dozen other newspapers you should write to as well. It may not contain THC, but it is still oil made from cannabis, which to all intents and purposes is cannabis oil (I’m reminded of a horticultural class lesson – all cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are cacti – in case that helps). All that’s going on here is that three people are trying to raise funds, 100% of which are going on cannabis oil / cbd oil if you prefer for people who can’t afford it, but who know that they benefit from using oil. (In fact, a good deal of the costs have come from my own pocket so far; but demand is growing more than I can afford on my own). There are people out there who are greatly benefitting from what we’re doing, and we’re going to continue. But thanks for your comment. So if you’re saying cannabis oil isn’t really cannabis oil if it doesn’t have THC in it, we’ll agree to disagree; CBD oil is a type of cannabis oil.
It would appear that no one does hypocrisy and a complete lack of self – awareness quite like Christian Allard.
Hot on the heels of Mr Allard lecturing us on “racism” as a proud member of a political party which sought to bankrupt an entire nation on no economic or political basis but simply because they don’t like English people, Mr Allard now issues his latest diatribe against the UK Government on the subject of democracy, despite himself and his party continuing to agitate for their ideological and, some might say, racist goal less than eighteen months after seeing it democratically rejected by a substantial majority.
Were this not enough to potentially condemn Mr Allard to the status of eternal laughing stock, he forgets to mention that he and his party decided to withhold the right to vote, in the 2014 Referendum, from Scots who lived, temporarily or otherwise, and worked in other parts of the UK, and engineered a vote for schoolchildren because they thought such young and impressionable individuals might be gullible enough to vote for their non – existent cause.
Fortunately for the nation, our youngsters were not as daft as Mr Allard and his colleagues had hoped.
I find your comment inaccurate, and frankly disgraceful. The electorate in the 2014 referendum consisted of those people who lived in Scotland. It was not selected by race as per your suggestion (Scots living abroad) but consisted of only those people who chose to work and live in Scotland. It is you, sir, who is playing the race card.The extension of the franchise to 16 and 17 year olds was a triumph. Engaging young people in the democratic process is surely essential to our future as a democracy. They did vote slightly in favour to end our dependency but that is hardly the point – it is they who will spend longest in captivity and it is surely their voice that needs to be heard the loudest. Like all those who seek to end the charade of the British Imperial state I am not anti-English, but certainly do seek to end the British State and liberate not just my fellow Scots, but all of those living under the yoke of a state that exists to perpetuate the privileges of the few over the rights of the many.
Oh dear, I believe you have exemplified all of the denial, delusion, dictatorial dogma, prejudice, pretence, revisionism and racism of nationalists the world over within one single paragraph.
The historic British imperialism you speak of included the actions of Scots, who provided the most enthusiastic and valuable contribution, particularly in the fields of military occupation, policing, administration and slave supervision/ownership. Indeed it is the case that Scotland benefitted and profited more from slavery than any other area of the United Kingdom.
The failure of anyone, within the SNP or the wider nationalist movement, to provide a rational economic or geo – political case for separation from the rest of the United Kingdom, leaves one to search in vain for any other explanation for the ideological basis which forms the raison d’être of the SNP, other than the sort of racism and prejudice which might appear to lead you to believe that you live in “captivity” and that Scotland is an oppressed colony of England.
To get back to the nationalist hypocrisy of Mr Allard, I would be interested to hear his thoughts on the nationalist aspirations of La Corse et Bretagne but suspect I am to be deprived of his musings on such issues.
Hi,
My daughter and I went for a walk yesterday along the Ythan estuary, and I wanted to see it going into the sea, but you can imagine our surprise when we turned the corner and my daughter said she saw a seal in the water, and I said look over there, and here were hundreds of them on the river bank! None of us knew about the seals until yesterday, and it was the most gorgeous thing to see, and it made our day. What spoilt it was this couple, who went so close to them, they scared away a good lot of them, and we spoke loud enough for them to hear we were annoyed, so the woman eventually came to the bank and sat down up from us a bit, waiting for the man, and they could see we were annoyed at them, and decided to do it again, they went right over with their backs to them taking a selfie, so close to them that they all started to move again, it was so sad to see, and they knew perfectly well what they were doing, the kept looking at us and laughing. Something really needs to be done, it’s such a precious sight to see all that on our doorstep and it’s a shame idiots feel the need to ruin it for the rest of us and the seals.
Suzanne say – thank you for this – I hope some people will learn from it
My how the mighty have fallen. It seems like only yesterday that Alex Salmond was urging us to join the “Arc of Prosperity” as he described the then”tiger economies” of Ireland and Iceland just before they went bust, whilst holding up his erstwhile best friend – Fred Goodwin as the man to inspire us. Now he is urging us to embrace the “corridor of prosperity” between Inverness and Aberdeen, presumably to enable Highlanders to benefit from the thousands of non – existent job opportunities he promised would be created by another of his former best friends – Donald Trump on the Menie Estate.
From world domination to extending platforms at Inverurie Station. What’s not to laugh at?
I’ve always despised Donald Trump, from the first time I saw his horrible reality show. I watched a couple of episodes and couldn’t stomach any more. I was very moved by the documentary You’ve Been Trumped. Moved by the community and enraged and sickened by him and his puppets.
Now that he’s running for President of the US I don’t think anybody can do enough to expose him. There’s nothing funny or benign about him. He’s dangerous. Frankly I think he belongs in a mental hospital.
I think the work you’ve done is utterly brilliant. I loved signing the petition and thrilled at how much support it got and what it’s achieved so far. It’s an ongoing David and Goliath story. With apologies to Goliath.
Having returned to Aberdeen after living abroad I was shocked and saddened to see what the City Centre and Union street has become. We can have no faith in the years of Aberdeen City councillors that have allowed this to happen, do they ever walk or drive down Union Street? As for the sporting facilities provided for the children of Aberdeen both the Council and the many people who have made millions out of Aberdeen should be ashamed, in Spain where I lived every small village has asto turf football pitches and tennis courts which are the heart of their communities, these facilities are provided by cash strapped councils who prioritise their youth and communities. For a city like Aberdeen there is no investment in our youth by providing decent facilities for children to enjoy sport or to promote a sense of community which is sadly lacking in Aberdeen. Aberdeen is a centre of excellence with our oil industry knowledge but why does it feel like a back water city that nobody cares about. Give us a council that wants to work with the like of Sir Ian Wood who wants to give Aberdeen something back.
As someone of simple pleasures, I have, for some time, looked forward to enjoying my coffee on a Friday morning, whilst reading the excellent investigative journalism and informative output in Aberdeen Voice. More recently, this excellent use of my leisure time has been further enhanced by the hilarious comedy on offer, courtesy of the cant, pomposity and hypocrisy, but most of all the unerring certainty of local politicians as they inflict their populist rhetoric on unsuspecting citizens.
This week we have a whole host of them basking in the moral certainty of unilateralism by claiming they don’t like nuclear weapons, as if there were nuclear fan clubs up and down the country, continent and western world. As all but the most feeble – minded are aware, no one really thinks nuclear weapons are a good thing, with the possible exception of the North Korean government, a handful of influential and fanatical Islamists in Iran and possibly Vladimir Putin. But how to get rid of them?
For those possessed of special powers of foresight and a degree of moral and intellectual certainty normally reserved for the most deranged conspiracy theorists and terminally paranoid, the answer is obvious – simply get rid of the nuclear weapons in the UK and the world will become a safer place as others rush to follow our example. Or is that really what they think?
All of the elected or ex politicians quoted above are in favour of maintaining the defence of the United Kingdom by remaining in NATO, an organisation which has a large – scale nuclear deterrent at the heart of it’s entire strategy. It is clear, therefore, that these politicians either do believe that nuclear weapons are an efficient deterrent, protection and guarantor of relative peace but don’t want the UK to contribute financially, are brazen hypocrites, or are perhaps incapable of understanding this clear contradiction.
Perhaps they could consider clarifying their position by stating whether or not they are in favour of unilateral nuclear disarmament on the part of the USA and whether or not they believe this would lead to Russia, China, North Korea and Iran following such a fine example and abandoning their nuclear weapons and programs?
Who needs nuclear weapons when we have the intellectual might and far – reaching influence of Kevin Stewart and Kirsty Blackman to protect us after all?
Having given further consideration to the above contributions, I believe the comments of Kevin Stewart MSP, in particular, merit further attention.
By highlighting the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Mr Stewart reminds us of what can happen when only one side is in possession of such awful weapons, a position he appears to want to return to, only with the UK and, perhaps other NATO members, or ex NATO members, the ones left to ponder the potential consequences of refusing to surrender to an enemy force.
Not content with adopting such an arguably disingenuous position, Mr Stewart invites further potential accusations of dishonesty by claiming the cost of Trident renewal to be £167 billion. What the apparently feckless MSP fails to point out or understand is that the cost of Trident renewal is estimated to be only £31 billion at most and that the rest is made up of a series of assumptions of UK Government defence spending and percentage spend on nuclear, over the anticipated lifetime of Trident through to 2060 and includes the assumed £15 billion cost of decommissioning. This equates to an annual spend on the UK independent nuclear deterrent of less than £3 billion per annum, or only £9 billion per annum less than the projected and universally accepted annual deficit in Scotland were Mr Stewart to achieve his ambition of separating Scotland from the United Kingdom and only around eight times more than the now annual Scottish Government underspend.
One wonders why present – day politicians are held in such low esteem?!
I was puking for 3 months and eventually was puking up blood and was in pain. I caught an ambulance to the er where they accused me of being a druggie while the nurses sat outside my room gossiping and laughing about me before I was admitted for nearly a week.. I’ve also been yelled at for puking in the er. They told me I wasn’t even trying not to. Last time they asked why I have cvs and got irritated when I told them which medication works and which does not work for me. I usually just go after episodes are bad for a week or longer and I really need iv fluid because I hate going, so much. My veins collapse, blow, roll, etc from dehydration. I end up with giant bruises and multiple pokes. My body has actually pushed my iv out of my arm and rejected it from shutting down according to the nurse. There are so many stories and I refuse to talk about pain because I try to avoid the drug seeker remarks although they still accuse me almost every single time.
Has anyone considered starting a “boycott Pralhad Kohli” facebook page? He makes his living in Aberdeen & a lot of it is through word of mouth. What is sauce for the goose…
Good stuff, Mike!
Good stuff, Mike!
Thought I was the only one but found that when it came to the bay of nigg I suddenly became the many more than happy to support your beliefs still drying the tears from your words which are all true and heartbreaking when will people see the destruction that is happening in front of our eyes and put a stop to it let the councillors, MSPs and MP s know we have had enough pollution kills
Hi Betty lyons thanks for your words of support and its good to know that there are people who understand and really care All the best,I am keeping an eye on the Nigg situation is it worth spending more on infrastructure that will make Aberdeen a less pleasant, place to live who gains,developers
There was a better, less expensive option for an Aberdeen bypass (involving a cut-and-cover road under the existing one along the beach and a couple of tunnels under rivers) but it was rejected because the primary objective was to please developers by opening up a wave of new building opportunities all round the route, the idea being that hordes of people from elsewhere will be desperate to move to our part of the country to take advantage of the decline in the oil industry and the massive loss of jobs.
Most people don’t know the countryside that’s being torn up and therefore don’t care about it, but I’ve spent decades cycling round all the little backroads and know exactly how much of it is going to have its atmosphere ruined, and while I find that depressing, it’s the people living near the route that I feel for as what have always been peaceful places soon be suffering from a continual roar of traffic going the long way round the city. All of the change is aimed at a future that will not come: most jobs will vanish soon (not just here, but everywhere) and people will be keen to move away from the cities in search of more peaceful places to live in. We are seeing one of the last gasps of the old era in which we allow our environment to be trashed in the name of progress, and soon we’ll have to start undoing it all so that future generations can try to turn this part of the world back into one that’s worth existing in instead of a concrete hell.
Hi David We told the government and local authority what they already know but developers have had the last say more urban sprawl even as far as Laurencekirk(at least 300 houses) and how does that make life easier for people.We are misusing technology destroying the planet and carrying on as though it is not a problem.What are the City council going to do with the money from the city deal more infrastructure lets hope it cycle routes through the city we can but hope.Thanks for your support and understanding and I agree we are at the end of an era and it just takes more people to really care and we can turn the earth into a garden again with all its diversity of life.
Thanks for finally writing about > French Born MSP Condemns ‘Britain’s Shrinking Democracy’
– Aberdeen Voice < Liked it!
Yes, but the North Sea oil is running out in only 30-40 years anyway.
Very interesting and relevant, Mike!
I think Tony Cockroach – raconteur, bon vivant and friend to the stars – should get his own column to enlighten the people of Aberdeen of the lives of the rich, famous and talentless. Obviously, due to his heavy schedule of wining and dining, ligging and inappropriately touching famous people, a ghost writer would have to be employed to be at his beck and call.
Think you’ve hit on something there Steve; we’ll work on it
Thanks Alex!
I would predict that the North Sea offshore oil industry will be unlikely to revive.
To add to the points Mr Shepherd made in ‘part 1’ of his series of articles, there has always been a massive supply of cheaply produced oil. Despite this the price of oil rose much higher than its productive cost because the US and then European oil, car, and arms corporations made sure the world economies became heavily dependent on oil. This resulted in crises when the supply was interrupted in 1973 by the Yom Kippur War and on 1979 by the Iranian Revolution.
The need to obtain more control over oil supply and the perception of a limit to supply (i.e. peak oil) led to the encouragement by governments and corporations to seek out and exploit reserves outside the low cost productive fields of the Middle East and Venezuela, resulting in more costly extraction from more marginal and difficult environments. The high cost of oil funded this.
To encourage and maintain continual investment in oil, the oil corporations had to maintain the confidence of investors by demonstrating there was continual scope for supply and future growth, further encouraging the move to marginal fields.
The exploitation in the extreme North Sea environment gave rise to the technologies and skills of the North East for exploitation in marginal offshore locations throughout the globe.
This expertise is now rapidly becoming redundant as there is becoming less need, and less investment for exploiting the expensive marginal fields.
The existing glut in oil supply has now been increased by the expanding oil fields across America and by previous sanctioned and disrupted suppliers coming back on to the market (Iran, Iraq).
Oil producing countries dependent on oil revenue such as USSR, Venezuela, Nigeria need to put greater volumes on the market to support their economies no matter how low the price.
Now with threat of climate change is becoming ever more understood and accepted – (global warming deniers are now a more threatened species than polar bears).
There is now a trend to divest, for ethical reasons, from oil by universities, churches, local governments etc.
On the financial spectrum, more clued up investment managers are noticing the decline in oil company dividends, and realising that a third of existing resources can’t be burned,are looking to move away from potentially stranded assets.
On the other hand combined with the massive growth in renewable energy other sources of power are becoming more attractive.
The motor vehicle industry is massively investing in electric and battery technology.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-24/another-oil-crash-is-coming-and-there-may-be-no-recovery
Sea transport a heavy oil consumer is being challenged by intercontinental rail freight routes such as the rail element of China’s ‘Silk Road’ project. http://atimes.com/2016/02/first-silk-road-train-arrives-in-tehran-from-china/
With, estimated, only 16 years until the 2 degrees limit is reached, rapid movement from fossil fuels is essential for world stability.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-will-cross-the-climate-danger-threshold-by-2036
Unfortunately for North East Scotland, but fortunately for the future of the planet, the trend appears to point to a continual decline in oil as the means of powering the global economy.
Could I get the source of the soil report mentioned in this article?
thanks,
Suzanne Kelly: This article contains a link to a yola site with the full report I wrote: https://aberdeenvoice.com/2011/12/tullos-hill-report-issued-by-meadow-campaigner/ . The yola site link is: http://suzannekelly.yolasite.com/ . Scroll down (hopefully read some of the documents) past the Executive Summary, and you will find the soil report by Forest Research, an arm of the Forestry Commission. The promise of a forest on Tullos, as per the initial public consultation, is unlikely. “It is noteworthy that the establishment of large mature trees on many parts of Tullos Hill is unlikely.” the report reads. The weeds are not controlled; we are spraying pesticides, there is no decent soil matrix to support tree roots; we’ve spent tens of thousands of pounds of public money when we could have had a meadow with deer if we’d done nothing at all. Despite costing the taxpayer £43,800 for the past failure, ACC told the public they would get a forest (they didn’t say in the consultation they would decimate the existing deer population to plant trees unlikely to grow this forest – which they knew well). No forest, no deer, we do have a nice collection of weeds where once we had gorse (food and home for wildlife). The public’s objections were overruled (STV found 80% polled were against the scheme; some 3,000 people signed a petition to halt the scheme), and yet consultant Chris Piper walks away with a sum not far off £100,000 for recommending we go ahead with this scheme. Glad you are interested.
I believe there is only one country in the Middle East which is a fully functioning democracy and is surrounded on all sides by extremely hostile enemies, most of whom still refuse to accept the right of that country to exist and all of whom would gladly participate in it’s destruction and/or who have, in the past, embarked on military action with the intention of driving it’s entire population “into the Mediterranean”.
Will there be any Israeli speakers at this event?
Yeah.. The fully democratic country that killed 504 children and injured 3,436 children, of whom 10% suffered permanent disability in less than two months (as perHuman Rights).
You either don’t know much or changing obvious facts. The Israeli government is the one who wishes that the entire Palestinian population would sink into the medetatanean as the Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin Said in 1992, “I wish I could wake up one day and find that Gaza has sunk into the sea.” And they’re working brutaly on it.
Hi Mulham,
I wondered how long it might take for me to be accused of ignorance or dishonesty, on the basis that my views on Israel are contrary to the intellectually inexplicable revisionist orthodoxy which currently prevails.
One suspects you must have had to work extremely hard to not only find a quote, but then to stretch it so far out of context, from of all people, a man who lost his life as a result of his commitment to peace and who was rightfully awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, in order to maintain your apparent adherence to a distortion of history and reality which, in my view, can not be explained by mere ignorance alone.
I would humbly and respectfully suggest to you that the election of a terrorist organisation dedicated to the destruction of a neighbouring State, the refusal to accept the right of that State to exist, the continuous and deliberate bombing of civilian areas within that State, from missile launchers deliberately sited near schools, and the use of civilians as “human shields” in the event of eventual retaliation, may not really be the best way to ensure the safety of one’s children.
Now that we have engaged in an exchange of views, would you mind explaining which part of my initial comment you consider to be inaccurate, leading to your depiction of me as either ignorant or dishonest?
Interesting if mildly depressing stuff, Mike. Am looking forward to Part4!
In 1975 I invented the Apache. In 1980 I directed the deveopment of the Multi-Purpose Semi-Submersible with the assistance of W S Atkins, Glasgow University’ Prof Douglas Faulkner and Dr Atilla Incecik. In the past year we have promoted the Novel Extended Semi-Submersible, Nessie, for removing topsides and jackets in single lifts. This is an extension of Ernest Cox salving of the German Hifgh Seas fleet in 1924.
If the UK supports Nessie thousands of jobs will be created, including an active refurbishing, resale and relocation industry.
As we all know there is an enormous gulf, Death Valley, that the UK has repeatedly failed to cross. As Sir John Parker (formerly Harland and Wolff) said, “we can build cheaper but we cannot sell cheaper”. How is this to be solved?
Hello Bruce,
There wasn’t a need to work ‘extremely hard’ to write the quote. It would ring a bell, to anyone who knows a bit about the conflict, when reading what you wrote about the ‘hostil enemies’ who are trying to drive the entire Israeli population into the sea. While it was said by an Israeli official.
And yes it’s ironic and sad that this very person is a noble prize winner for peace, while he was responsible of the killing of thousands of civilians in the first intifada and his soldiers broke the bones of hundreds, where he got the ‘bone crusher ‘ name.
To answer your question, I believe that for a person to support the Israeli’s government has to either not know much about the conflict or be turning a blind eye on it.
Im of course against firing missiles to civilian areas near schools. But let’s look at the facts. How many Israeli were killed by those missiles in the last big series of missiles launched against Israel in 2014? 8 Israeli.
How many Palestinians killed by the Israeli army as a reaction? 2300 civilians. Do I need to comment?!
Please don’t tell me about the human shield stories! The Israeli army is the only party IMO using human shields (many times children). An example is what’s the Haartez themselves published where Israeli soldiers were convicted on using a child as human shield.
Hi Mulham,
It’s difficult, for a simple person like myself, to know where to start, when faced with the task of publicly disagreeing with your overwhelmingly superior knowledge and wisdom. That said, I’m going to give it a go anyway:
As someone of your undoubted subject knowledge will be aware, there has never been an independent state in the territories referred to by some as “Palestine” other than the State of Israel, and there has never been an independent Palestinian State anywhere. Indeed, following the forced expulsion of the Jews, by the Romans, the territory was occupied and ruled predominantly and successively by the forces of Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman Empires, not to mention the Syrians, Egyptians and others, prior to the British Mandate following the end of the First World War. At no time throughout this period was there ever any notion or idea of Palestinian statehood. This was confirmed by Arab commentators during deliberations leading to the establishment of the State of Israel by the United Nations(UN) in 1948, although some of these commentators would much later go on to change their position and become prominent members of the so called Palestinian Liberation Organisation in 1964.
Of course, the refusal of many of the “Palestinian” inhabitants of the new State of Israel and the refusal of neighbouring countries to accept the presence of a Jewish State led to the large – scale attempted annihilation of the Jewish citizens of Israel in 1948, 1967 and 1973, with never – ending and widely acknowledged terrorist attacks throughout this period, and which continue to this day. Fortunately for the people of Israel, their defence forces prevailed and the prospect of a second 20th Century holocaust was prevented.
That Yitzhak Rabin played a prominent and heroic part in defending his fellow citizens, including peace – loving Arabs, during these conflicts and went on to pursue a peace settlement with those who had sought to destroy Israel, thereby setting a fine example for Ariel Sharon to follow with his unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, surely merits more positive recognition than you are willing to concede.
One of the downsides of refusing to accept the existence of a nation State and maintaing continuous military and terrorist attacks upon such States, particularly when such a State has some experience of surviving attempted destruction and is forced to be eternally vigilant, is the prospect of a spectacular black of “success” and inevitable retaliation. I believe there is a debate to be had in relation to the proportionality of such retaliation but would respectfully suggest, particularly given your intellectual pre – eminence, that the skill, ingenuity and sophistication of the Israeli defence capability and vigilance of Israeli civilians are responsible for the prevention of comparable numbers of civilian casualties in Israel, rather than the proclaimed moral superiority of those who launch missiles at them on a daily basis.
I would like to go on Mulham but sadly have work to do. I look forward with enthusiasm to your next tutorial and to reading your detailed critique of my original comments which, as you have said but failed to demonstrate, do not stand up to scrutiny.
Just one question before I go Mulham: Do you accept the right of the State of Israel to exist or not?
A very useful series of articles, Mike.
Thanks Alex, hopefully somebody will notice Alex.
The love – hate relationship between the Scottish Government, it’s publicly funded quangos and Donald Trump continues unabated. As the publicly funded VisitScotland seems to act as a full – time promoter of Trump’s business interests in Scotland and Trump’s widely publicised official “partnership” with the publicly owned Prestwick Airport appears to consist of the massive loss making operation providing free parking for Trump’s private jet and helicopter, not to mention free publicity, is it any wonder that The Donald loves to say “Yes” to such generosity whilst the Scottish Government just hates to say “No” when he comes calling.
There can be no doubt, in my view, that the Scottish Government, and former First Minister Alex Salmond in particular, acted dishonestly and without scruple, in enabling Trump to overcome Scottish law and established democratic process, in order to build his golf resort at Menie. Now we see the Scottish Government condemn Trump publicly whilst providing public funds, from the hard pressed Scottish tax payer, to boost the business interests of Trump in Scotland. It might even be argued, particularly given the VisitScotland statements of the unique importance of the numbers of visitors to Trump resorts to the Scottish tourist industry, that the Scottish tax payers, courtesy of the Scottish Government, are helping to provide funds for Trump’s campaign of hate and ignorance as he seeks to become the next President of the United States.
Perhaps we can take some solace in the promise of First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, to turn Prestwick Airport into the first UK spaceport, leading to her government’s favourite billionaire bigot finding a new parking lot for his private aircraft somewhere in another galaxy.
Bruce,
Every time I reply on a specific point you mention, you deviate and move to another, instead of replying back.
I didn’t give a tutorial in my previous post but it was you who gave a lecture.
I can of course waste another 4 lines being sarcastic, in a try to be funny. But I’d rather write facts.
As for your last jump:
Yes, there wasn’t an independent state called Palestine, because it has a long sad history of brutal occupations and invasions, the worst is the Israeli one. But how is that relevant?!
The land has always been inhabited by Palestinians since they started to be called so. So the fact that there was always someone stealing their land doesn’t give the right for another to do so.
If the UN is your reference, then the UN Partition Plan and General Assembly Resolution 181 of 1947 did indeed declare an “Arab state” and a “Jewish state” in Palestine.
However, it did so based on the population distribution at the time. It did not define a “Jewish” state so that Jews from all over the world would continue to migrate taking over Palestinian’s homes and lands, increasing the population from 600,000 to over 6,000,000 now.
Over 77 resolutions were declared by the UN against Israel, one of them is 242 in 1967 where it stated that Israel should withdraw it’s army from the recent ‘occupation’ at that time. That of course or any of the other 76 resolutions weren’t respected. We’re not talking here about an organisation like Hamas that is recognised as a terrorist organisation by the western governments, but a government of a state.
Now I’ll go back further in history since you mentioned the expulsion of the Jews.
The Jews were expelled from Palestine in 70 AC. But when did they enter Palastine in the first place?
As you probably know the Jews invaded what we call now Palestine in 1125 BC.
So the Jews lived in Palestine for 1200 years, but they were outside Palestine for a much longer period of 1900 years.
I can see that, just like any argument of this type, it’s not going anywhere.
So will end it by answering your question.
Israel didn’t have the right to be created. Israel exists through a biblical statement, Balfour’s illegitimate declaration, a promise of a land he didn’t own, by facilitation of another occupier of the land, and tens of thousands of dead bodies of rightfully Palestinian original land owners.
Having said that, there is now a new Israeli generation who was born there and haven’t committed a crime or had a choice of being there on someone else’s land. So those people should have the right to live peacefully side by side by the Palestinians, only when the Palestinians rights, land and basic humanitarian needs are respected by the Israelis.
I’ll take that as a No then!?
I believe the US of A is the only country in the world founded on
the natural rights of man [&, to the low info. voters, that means women,
too]. I believe that even the French constitution conforms to the general theory
that you aint got no rights but what the Gummint says you got. The
American view is that Nature’s God [ooh, that sounds suspiciously like
religion!] has conferred certain rights upon all us rational beings & moreover
that state of affairs is fixed & immutable. One of those natural rights is
the right of self defense, both against local criminals, foreign interlopers
[remember 1776?], & one’s own government, should it become despotic. That
natural right is recognized, but not created, by the 2nd Amendment to the
US Constitution. The stupid & irresponsible actions of a dummkopf mother do
not & cannot eclipse that right. Pace, S. Kelly.
Alba shaor abú!
the right to have a defensive armed militia is a different thing to what has evolved. Funny, the right to ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ has really gone by the wayside in many areas, with the US’s police forces turning into reckless, profiteering violent thuggery in many documented cases, while people are incarcerated for minor misdemeanours (or unjustly jailed) are forced to work as veritable slave labour producing goods that can be made cheaply and sold for profit. You don’t even have the right to grow certain kinds of plants any more without expecting a police dawn raid and your children being taken into care. The whole country needs an overhaul – including gun laws. Goodness knows who our next president will be, let’s hope it’s not a profiteering, opportunist, racist bigot – Suzanne Kelly
Eoin,
I thought all Americans, other than those natives who inhabited “The Americas” prior to the arrival of Columbus, Cortez et al, were “foreign interlopers”. I know this may be a ridiculous, albeit historically accurate, observation to make but then you started it.
Incidentally, why would one assume the need to defend one’s self against another on the basis of their country or continent of origin?
from Suzanne – indeed. However Bruce, an interloper is a four-legged horned animal. You might mean invaders 🙂 Have a good one
Hi, Suzanne & Bruce. Ganging up on me, eh? Alas, I start many a donnybrook. Re:
your point- well, of course, you’re right. Americans stole the land from the Indians, as
England stole the land of my ancestors from the Irish, etc. Moreover, justice has never
been done to the American Indians & that is plainly wrong. Also, the Kingdom of Hawaii
was blatantly stolen by Americans. I think a restoration of Hawaiian sovereignty is
feasible &, if native Hawaiians want independence they should get it. Ditto for Puerto
Rico, Guam, the North Marianas Islands, Pago Pago, et al. I am four-square for freedom
& justice. And I have the heart of a raparee, one of those Irish Jacobite “outlaws” who harassed the English after the Treaty of Limerick. 2 MagRaighne’s were hanged as
raparees in 1725, by the way. And an ancestor on my mother’s side was the Fenian
chief in Buffalo NY when, in the wake of the American Civil War, the Fenians invaded
Canada. [1866? 7?] So write me down as a congenital rebel.
As for the American Indians, they have been shabbily treated throughout American
history, but I think it would be unfeasible to give the whole country back to them. However, an attempt should be made to give them their due. Justice is vital in this
context, as always.
As to Suzanne’s anti-American diatribe, I must confess that parts of it are quite true.
The Power Elites worship the Almighty Dollar & corruption is endemic, at all levels.
And strongly entrenched. The Speaker of the NY State House of Representatives &
the Majority leader of the NY State Senate were both found guilty of corruption late
last year and will be sentenced to long terms of imprisonment on April 13- I wonder if
that’s a Friday. That’s only the tip of the iceberg. Money talks, BS walks- that’s the
unofficial motto of contemporary America. I think Ben Franklin or someone of that sort
said that the US Constitution was intended for a virtuous people; although ordinary
Americans are reasonably decent people, the power elites are woefully deficient in
that respect- as a rule.
Beyond all that, the government is increasingly eroding my freedom. Civil rights
attorney Harvey Silvergate & law prof Alan Dershowitz have written a book, which
says that there are so many Federal laws & regulations [with the force of laws] that
the average American commits about 3 felonies per day, without even knowing it.
So, increasingly, if the government wants to suppress a dissident, it can almost
certainly bring the hapless citizen up on one charge or another. Truly a marvelous
form of social control.
The statistics on the killing of blacks by policemen are unclear, do to bad record
keeping, but every police homicide should be fairly judged. The Policeman is generally
friend, but rotten apples should be crucified, in my opinion. As to the charge of slave
labor in the US of A, well Suzanne, you must be thinking of the conditions in which
many illegal aliens must work, under the tutelage of Mexican gang enforcers. Of course,
American business owners have been known to exploit illegal, as well. In my opinion,
such people should be jailed- the business execs, that is. Illegals should be given their
due, but every reasonable mitigation should be given to them, as most are just decent
people looking to get out of the Hell hole that Mexico has become, due to the power
& pervasiveness of the drug gangs.
In my last paragraph, I typed ‘do’ instead of ‘due’. My digits sometimes get ahead of
my brain. This was one such case. May the Gods of Lexicography forgive me.
Bruce, I don’t quite get the meaning of your question. I do support just war, which must
be fought for a good cause & with a rightful intention. My ancestors had the right, for example, to defend themselves against Strongbow & the Norman knights, back in AD 1169. Had they come as tourists, we could have given them a bowl of stir-about. And
sold them a kilt.
Suzanne, I’ll reply to your other points later, as I don’t have
the time, at present. Regarding the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution,
it says, “a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a
free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed.” The meaning of the term ‘militia’, as known to those
who wrote & ratified the US Bill of Rights, is set forth in District of
Columbia vs. Heller [US Supreme Court, 2008], as follows,
“the ‘militia’ comprised all males physically capable of acting
in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that
the Federal Government would disarm the people in order
to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army
or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress
power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms,
so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.”
The decision. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html
Suzanne,
Just to “clue” you into my political views, I am sending this encapsulated
version thereof.
The foundation of my politics is Cicero’s famous dictum: true law is right reason in
conformity with nature. In other words, I recognize no law as legitimate which is either
contrary to reason or to human nature. Nor do I recognize any obligation as binding on me,
which I do not freely take upon myself. I believe that people should follow Roman jurist
Ulpian’s 3 precepts of true law, as punctiliously as they can: to live uprightly; not to
harm another; and to give everyone his or her due. I believe we should lessen human suffering,
when & to the extent that we can- always remembering that every human being is made in
the image & likeness of God.
With that as background, I’ll try to answer your indictment of America.
So u say but is it true u have started paying off in ur Aberdeen office and jobs going to LONDON ??!!
Re: Gun Control
By Henry II’s Assize of Arms [1181] all knights, free laymen, and townsmen
in England were to be armed; this was the beginning of the English militia or
‘train bands’. In 1659, General Monk invaded England from Scotland & commenced
the liberation of both countries from the Puritan Commonwealth; Monk started
the war, but it was English train bands which guaranteed victory. Prior to that,
in 1630, the Massachusetts Bay Colony’s General Court [or legislature] had
promulgated a law requiring all males from 16 to 60 [excepting only clergymen
& magistrates] to arm themselves. There was even a provision to arm indigents!
It was against this background that the American Constitutional Convention
did its work. If Americans wish to be disarmed by the government, then all they
have to do is to amend the Constitution. Oh, yes- they could also repeal the
first Amendment, as people should not be offended by speech which they dislike.
The US Attorney General recently admitted before Congress that her department
was looking for ways to prosecute global warming skeptics. Don’t worry, though.
They’re from the Government & they’re here to help you. By the way, there’s a
great flick that satirically punctures Government, particularly of the custodial
liberal sort: “The Monitors”. It’s about a nanny-state run amok. The tag-line
being- trust The Monitors; The Monitors are here to help you.
And it’s six miles from Bangor to Donaghadee. Or is it?
Alba Shaor Abú!
“Ganging up” on you?
I’m flattered that you consider me suitable to be a gang member, given my distinct lack of street cred – I don’t even have a tattoo for goodness sake! Can’t speak for Suzanne as though I’ve never met her and it might seem tasteless to ask “do ya wanna be in my gang” ?
Nevertheless, just because you’re not paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you and you are perhaps right to be wary.
Thanks for the entertainment Eoin and Bon weekend.
From Suzanne – am disappointed. Doesn’t my ‘interloper’ pun deserve a mention? 🙁
Well, the dialogue is the important thing. During the recent troubles in The Six
Counties, an Orangeman & I conceived the idea of a no-man’s-land pub, where
one’s weapons were taken at the door & one could say whatever he or she wanted,
so long as St. Thomas Aquinas’s precept was maintained: that one should employ
only so much acrimony as was necessary to correct a sinner. Given reason & good
will on both sides, I think most human conflicts can be settled amicably. Or, at least,
with no massive effusion of blood. There is too much cruelty in the world & war
is extremely cruel; even when justified.
I expect I’ll visit Aberdeen, one of these days. I remember an old song, which says-
“The Northern lights of Aberdeen mean home-sweet-home to me. … [.]” If you’ve got
a no-man’s-land pub in the district, maybe we can have a pint or two together & some “craic”, as the Irish say.
Re: Interlopers, my dictionary traces the word to the 1630’s, with the meaning “self-
interested intruder”. In which case, I suppose I’m guilty. It’s part of my charm, I’ve
always thought.
Alba shaor abú!
A few myths busted there, Mike, well done.
A basic message here is that if you don’t stand up for yourself as they did in The Northern Isles and Norway you get walked all over and left with nothing and worse with negative equity.
A strong message for Scotland too.
There’s to be an announcement tomorrow about London’s Crossrail 2.
Hooray!
Thanks for the article – that needed saying and perfectly represents what many of us have been saying on Facebook between ourselves.
This guy is an unbelievable creep/tosser (very polite version). I think my punk thing may be to wait outside his house and egg him for Easter….Christian values are called for. I suppose that’s what you learn from never being poor. Well, we’ve got a Government full of people like him. Knox is one of the most decent people I know and he would think I’m being mean, but I’ll say it anyway- BOO to you, Little Lord Snooty. Yours Sincerely, Ginny
Hi,
Is this information still valid? Are you still in need of volunteers? I am interested
email here to ask for more information, and all the best acis.manager@mhaberdeen.org.ukmailto:acis.manager@mhaberdeen.org.uk
I had to resfresh my memory of the Sex Pistols, The Ueber-Punkers. Dare I call them seminal?Their “oeuvre” really was garbage, like rap & most contemporary muzak. There was a time when
rock had some class. Round about the 14th century- surely not later. Johnny Rotten. Now, doesn’t
that say it all? Rotten was a rotter & all of his ilk. Oh for the days of Lord Eatingham-on-Rye & some
good old-fashioned hard-baroque oratorio by Handel. And, hóigh, this is Alba- why not a pibroch?
Could you handle it?
Seriously, soaks- I mean ‘folks’, contemporary kultchah is the pits, but still I do think it’s an excellent
point that rich miscreants should not destroy stuff which others can use. There’s a very old principle,
which Cicero mentions in connection with the virtue of benignity: that one should not withhold from
another what it costs him or her nothing to give. Cicero cites the example of someone with a lit torch
who offers to relight the torch a man whose own has lost its fire. That’s a good principle which should
be honored, even by dummkopfs like what’s-his-face.
Alba shaor abú & hi, to Suzanne & Bruce!
Eoin
In fact, there is some rock music I like. A little. Danny & the Juniors doing “Rock & Roll is here to
stay”- it was; they weren’t. The Beach Boys- “Surfin’ USA”. Gary Numan “Cars”. A-ha doing “Take
On Me”. Devo. Incredible String Band- rock of a sort. The Stones- “Sittin’ On The Fence”, “Street
Fighting Man”, “Honky-Tonk Woman”. Only one Beatles song I really liked, “Norwegian Wood”.
The Grateful Dead, “Uncle John’s Band”. Linda Ronstadt’s version of the Smokey Robinson song
“The Tracks of my Tears”. The Hollies, “Carrie Anne”. Karen Carpenter, “Top of the World”- very
sad her fate. Jennifer Warnes, “The Right Time of the Night”. Johnny Rivers, “Secret Agent Man”.
Jan & Dean, “Dead Man’s Curve”. Nervous Norvos, “Transfusion”. Jefferson Airplane, “We Can Be
Together”. When I was a young guy, that was our anthem; I was a leftist, of course, & the song
pretty much said it all for me & my mob. If anyone doesn’t know it, check it out on YouTube. The
Rascals doin’ “People Got To Be Free”- another anthem of my youth. Van Morrison, “Brown-eyed
Girl” & “Tupelo Honey” [“She’s as sweet as Tupelo honey, she’s an angel of the first degree”.
I forgot to mention that my 2 favorite Incredible String Band songs are “Everything’s Fine Right Now”
& “My Painting Box”. I haven’t reminisced this way for quite a while. Oh, yes- Joanie Mitchell, “Big
Yellow Taxi”; excellent version by Counting Crows. Oh, yes- a short-lived Montréal outfit called
Men Without Hats had a great song called “Pop Goes The World”.
If only I could go back in time & correct my stupid mistakes & enjoy the small pleasures of life in those
days. Didn’t Joanie say that something’s lost but something’s gained, from living every day? Yep!
She got that right.
By the way, when I said I had been a leftist in those days, I really was a libertarian. I still am.
And I am very partial to Irish poet Breandan O Beachain, who said, “I have a total irreverence for
anything connected with society except that which makes the roads safer, the beer stronger, the
food cheaper and the old men and old women warmer in the winter and happier in the summer.”
Show me a political party with that program & I’ll join it in a heartbeat.
Well they will have to fix the water treatment smell before the supposed cruise ships dock and those well heeled tourists embark. Where will all the traffic go?
And dont forge the planned incenerator at tullos!
Taking away a much loved green space that many many people use is just so sad.
Who will benefit from this project? Not torry thats for sure!
In who’s bank account will the money and vast profits end up!
There is nothing for the youth and children growing up and the schools are fit to bursting with the wave of economic migrants and thats a fact.
Profits of £1 billion per year!! none of which will be spent on social aspects of torry and its citizens.
What a fantastic example of what one man with an idea, drive and dedication can achieve!
Sheer brilliance, as usual Suzanne. Hilariously sad state of affairs.
Thank you kindly – Suzanne. I hope though that after Donald Trump’s column launches on Monday in the P&J that you won’t switch alliance to him and forget Old Susannah.
Suzanne,
I fear I must chide you, for being far too lenient, tolerant and reluctant to apply an appropriate level of opprobrium to the most grotesque piece of legislation ever to be considered by the Scottish Parliament.
This appalling scheme is not supported by parents, is not supported by Health Visitors and is not supported by the people of Scotland. Indeed, the only person who appears to support the scheme is Nicola Sturgeon, as she flounders around trying, as usual, to be all things to all Scotsmen/women.
The Named Person Scheme is mandatory and will ensure that a Named Person will be assigned to every young person in Scotland, whether the parents wish to “engage” or not. The Named Person will be obliged to note and notify the authorities of the most trivial concern, not least for fear that inaction may lead to them facing censure, or worse, in the future.
Named Persons will be assigned to seventeen year olds, who may have children of their own and may even share the same Named Person as their offspring. Named Persons will be assigned to young people, under the age of eighteen, serving in the armed forces, though who this might be remains unclear.
This is an appalling attack on our human rights and an object lesson in how elected dictatorships can resort to crass stupidity, and should be resisted by all.
On a brighter note, I suspect this may be Nicola Sturgeon’s Poll Tax and that this, along with the various high – profile allegations of sleaze, fraud, theft, bullying, mortgage fraud, fiddling of expenses, cronyism and racism currently engulfing the Scottish Government, might lead voters to remove the face – paint and apply some logic when exercising their democratic right to vote.
Great work Suzanne and may your God or Named Person bless you!
Suzanne says – agreed! The very idea of this legislation shows what kind of megalomaniacal power-hungry people are making laws. If I had a child, I’d leave Scotland, or at least resist. I do hope there will be lots of resistance to this Orwellian diktat. The State is answerable to us – children must never be conditioned to think they are answerable to it.
Thank you for your reply Suzanne,
The Scottish Government, in my opinion, now effectively exercise political control over the Police, the Civil Service and all areas of publicly funded institutions, including all quangos and much of what is now referred to as the Third Sector. IMO They have bullied and intimidated large sections of the mainstream media into silence and have shamelessly courted the most unsavoury individuals and regimes, including the flapping of their collective undergarments in the air, like Snuffy Ivy* after a few too many in the Criterion, in an attempt to woo the most despicable, such as Donald Trump and the Qatari Government.
The manner in which so many Scots are willing to accept this, as a perceived antidote to imaginary injustice and oppression, at the hands of the dastardly “English”, makes me a tad angry, as you might have already guessed.
* I apologise for any offence caused to any surviving friends or relatives of the legend that was Snuffy Ivy. She was a fine lady and I mean no disrespect in using her name to make my point.
We have children, and we are leaving Scotland. We’re not alone. We’ll be going as soon as humanly possible.
There’s a bigger picture here. Yes, it’s important to prevent the NP from rolling out, and very important to get it stopped. But the minds that came up with it are still in charge, they’re still planning all sorts of other grosteque things, like a central ID database using NHS records. And if they can come up with NP, what else will they come up with? They’ve already silenced dissent within the party itself. I find the whole thing more than a little scary & surreal. And what’s most surreal is that a huge number of my fellow Scots appear to have gone stark, staring mad; not only do they trust the government, they trust the government to do what’s ‘best’.
The SNP are not offering independence. Not by anyones stretch of the imagination. They’re offering North Korea. On a plate. And those so obssessed with independence they can’t see beyond it are lapping it up.
Superb piece as ever, Suzanne. I am fervently hoping that what you said about Trump’s forthcoming column in our esteemed local press was a belated April Fool…
Suzanne says – Thanks very much. I guess Trump’s got to find a new income stream as he’s unlikely to get the presidential job. Have read 7 out of 10 Americans polled say that they can’t stand him. Alas! The column is very real. Expect more about it after it debuts on Monday.
Given that the P&J has a limit on the number of free articles one can read, I doubt I’ll be reading The Donald’s output, nor buying the actual newspaper. I trust we can count on you to keep us informed – you do such a sterling job, thank you.
Suzanne responds: I guess if someone wants unbiased, professional, enthralling groundbreaking writing and investigative journalism like the P&J offers, it’s only fair to pay for the privilege. But if you search the internet for a news item or a column you want, under the actual result, there is a line that reads ‘cached’ ending in an arrow. Hit that link / the arrow and you will see the item your heart desires, in this case on Monday the Trump column. And it’s free. But yes, I can’t wait to read the musings of a US presidential hopeful who has found time to launch a column in Aberdeen. Am a bit disappointed; I’d been gearing up to approach the P&J and beg them for a paying job as a columnist. I’m sure they would have hired me, but looks like I’m too late.
i seen live broadcast of news or debate program last week that nicola sturgeon says its voluntary NOT mandatory.
Suzanne says – and that’s part of the problem. She says one thing; the people organising it say it is mandatory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHyAqeKY7O0 If they can’t even work that out, then why are they rolling it out. I’m no fan of the Press & Journal, but today it reports the cost to Aberdeen City Council will be c. £2 million (sounds conservative to me). Just. Say. No.
It is mandatory. There is no opt out and, as stated by the QC hired by Nicola Sturgeon to defend the appeal in the Supreme Court, there would be absolutely no point in such legislation were there to be an opt out or if the scheme were to be voluntary.
Nicola Sturgeon, in my humble opinion, is, as usual, talking out of both sides of her mouth at the same time. She says there is no obligation for parents to “engage” with the Named Person, but concedes there will be a Named Person assigned to every young person in Scotland, come what may, unless the current appeal is successful.
Like Dorothy Bothwell, I find it staggering that there is such little vocal opposition to this. I was, however, similarly taken aback at the lack of public awareness during the early days of the ill – fated Poll Tax initiative, a move which effectively ended the political career of a rather over – bearing female politician with a penchant for screeching, expensive designer suits and intolerance of dissent.
Go on lightning, strike again!
Hello there! I could have sworn I’ve been to this site before but
after reading through some of the post I realized it’s new to me.
Nonetheless, I’m definitely happy I found it and I’ll be bookmarking and checking back frequently!
Bit late, but I got his last night from a friend in Seattle
I have a pretty good idea whose woods these are, believe me.
And let me tell you something, my people say he’s a complete nobody.
This guy lives in the village. So what if he sees me stopping here?
I dare him to sue me! I dare him!
And by the way, this snow is pathetic.
These are by far, the least downy flakes ever!
I hear they had to import them from Canada.
I don’t know. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn’t. We’re looking into it.
My horse – he’s the most incredible horse, seriously,
I have the greatest, the classiest horses –
My horse doesn’t even know what the hell we’re doing here.
The horses love me though. They do.
They’re always shaking their bells at me, it’s very loving.
It’s a beautiful thing.
Let me tell you something, these woods are an embarrassment.
They’re not dark. They’re not deep. They’re nothing. They’re for losers.
And I cannot wait to sue this guy.
I cannot wait to sue this guy.
Don’t know who wrote it, but it might cheer folk up a bit
Jim
cheered me up – Suzanne Kelly – excellent
As ever, such refreshing comments by Bruce Wood – if refreshing is the word. As a head teacher (retired) I have such concerns about this legislation. There are systems in place to protect children already. These do need to be looked at again, but there is no way on this earth that what is being put in place will protect vulnerable children any more than they are ‘protected’ at the moment. I am surprised at the lack of debate on this issue, both in the media and on FB, as many people seem to be taking it at face value, which is always a danger. I have been involved nearly all of my teaching career with children who are vulnerable, and this misguided initiative is certainly not the answer.
Thanks Dorothy.
I’m still trying to work out how I came to use the names of both Snuffy Ivy and Donald Trump in the same sentence.
I’m sure she would be appalled to be associated with such a character.
As a regular Visitor to Cruden Bay and its environs, a Visitor/Heritage Centre strategically sited would be boon to the area, although just how that might contribute to the Trustee’s estimated £2.4 million redevelopment of Port Erroll Harbour is not immediately clear to see. The Centre might be better placed beside the shop on the right of the road into Port Erroll, perhaps even providing the shop with updated premises to lease with the footfall from the Heritage Centre helping to offset any additional rent the new premises might warrant. With respect to the Conservation Status of Port Erroll itself I think that is warranted and would be counter productive to consider its removal
Perfect one paragraph description of the shafting of Peacock, thank you.
It looks as if that column by The Donald was a one off rather than a regular feature, so we are to be denied further glimpses of his brilliance.
Suzanne says – thank you Susan. Am quite disappointed that the P&J’s exclusive new columnist hasn’t found time to write a second column; perhaps his priority is to embarrass grandmothers who answer a call of nature in sand dunes near him. Then again, having announced that he won Scotland over, perhaps he’s little left to say.
This can only be good news for wildlife and the environment. I planted 5000 mixed native species over 5 acres thirty years ago and the transformation has been amazing with many more birds, badgers, foxes and deer. It was a challenge protecting each tree from rabbits and deer but they are established and thriving now. Initially I did lose about 1000 to rabbits and deer but I plant more each year.
I always remember reading about the children of Fred and Rosemary West who grew up believing that their very harsh environment was normal. Rosemary always had the youngsters turned out immaculately and they were given notes for excuses not to attend PE classes due their bruising. In the end a persistent police officer uncovered the awful crimes their parents had committed.
The Baby P case elicited a failure of all the agencies who did not work together or share information and their individual concerns regarding his environment.
There are instances where young Asian girls have been taken suddenly out of school to another country which raises concerns about forced marriages. I feel that the GIRFEC scheme will save youngsters like these. They are very precious. GIRFEC provides a joint way of looking after and identifying our most vulnerable children.
From Suzanne Kelly: High profile failures of systems that were stretched because of too much work and/or red tape is what you are referring to. The GIRFEC pilot scheme of the Named Person scheme has already seen – per the article you comment on – a woman approved a Named Person who had shared violent fantasies about children online and is now struck off. Your GIRFEC scheme fondness overlooks the fact that this woman managed to slip through the nets and would have been asking children sexual activity questions. High profile cases you cite are thankfully extremely rare. How on earth will treating all children as if they are answerable to the state – or to that woman who thankfully was caught – solve anything? Collecting more data will only make it harder to find the needle in the haystack. Teaching children their parents are subject to state control over their family life is Orwellian, wrong, and against basic human rights and freedoms. This ill thought out, expensive, intrusive, potentially psychologically damaging scheme is in no way a logical, fair, sensible, workable answer to the number of children that fit the Baby P bill or the West Family’s horrors. Sorry, but you are quite wrong.
nice article made me want to find out more about an very interesting and talented man. Intriguing that his diaries remain unavailable until 2040.Thanks for the article
Cheers John. Peter took a complex path but there is nothing “dark” about the diary issue – just family sensibilities. I will be telling a bit more in about the Doune Kirkyard funeral in my June Leopard column – but not too much. Glad you enjoyed the piece.
There are times when even an incurably self – opinionated chatterbox, such as myself, is almost rendered speechless, by being subjected to the most astonishing level of open – mouthed disbelief since….well since yesterday I suppose, when Ken Livingstone described Adolf Hitler as a “Zionist” or perhaps the day before when I learned that Nicola Sturgeon had decided there are no boys or girls or men or women any more, but simply various points on a “gender spectrum” not necessarily pre – determined by genes, but developed by social conditioning.
But no, it was neither of these events which almost achieved what my friends and family have been trying to do for so many years, but this latest SNP offering in Aberdeen Voice
Were any SNP MSP to be introduced as a champion of business, at a time when they are causing so much uncertainty for business, with their constitutional obsession, doubling of Business Rates and implying, but not confirming, that taxes will rise further in the next five years, it would be surely be greeted by uncontrollable laughter. Dennis Robertson, however, is the very business – friendly Aberdeenshire MSP, who, on 5th January 2016, with tens of thousands of jobs being lost in the North East, oil trading at around $30 per barrel, and families wondering how they would get by, claimed:
“There is no crisis…We have the most skilled workforce in the North Sea and it is booming”
“BOOMING”
With friends of business like Dennis Robertson MSP, we might need to get fracking after all.
Excellent stuff, Suzanne!
I’m up there regularly and can confirm I’ve not seen a deer there in a very long time. It’s not all bad with regards to wildlife – I see quite a few birds of prey (buzzard, kestrel and owls) which would indicate there must be a reasonable amount of activity further down the food chain. I’m ok too with the tree planting not thriving at this location (though as you point out it’s a ridiculous waste), if it were successful it’d obscure one of the best views over Aberdeen there is.
Suzanne says – thanks for the observation. One of the likely reasons there are more birds of prey is the sad state of affairs at nearby Loirston Loch. Once a sign proclaimed that area should never be developed; it’s being developed now, displacing all sorts of animals (a short eared owl used to be there, but seems to have moved away for instance).
I’ve not been to Loirston Loch in a while, I didn’t realise they’d started development there, I’ll have to go out and have a look before it’s obliterated – unfortunately another entry in my growing list of places in Aberdeenshire to visit before they’re wiped out by developers
It’s so very sad to see the Gramps looking like this, I have lots of happy memories of walks up there when I was young. It was a beautiful place full of trees bushes and wildlife, a place we used to love to hang out with our pals. Went up for a walk last year and couldn’t believe that they have torn it apart it’s such a shame, it was a place of natural beauty which has now been lost.
I don’t know the site or the particular situation, but you clearly have a passion for wildlife.
A shame then that you repeatedly refer to “weeds” & claim that they have killed the trees. This is clearly nonsense. Weeds as you call them are just wild plants & have every right to be there. They do not kill trees.
As for Gorse & Deer, both will be back when all this is done. Neither are endangered in any sense of the word. Both need control if they are not to dominate at the expense of other biodiversity.
Wait and see. Nature has a way of fixing stuff.
Suzanne says – good point about the word ‘weeds’ – I should have made it clear that the word is used by the Council, the experts, and the Forestry Commission (Personally I consider that every plant has value). The Forestry Commission used the word ‘weeds’ as to why the first planting – costing the taxpayer £43,800 — failed (weeds and deer). They demanded the city undertook weeding as part of the go ahead for this current phase we’re in. How exactly will this herd of deer re-establish, especially under the SNH guidelines? There’s nothing for them to shelter in, there will be no forest, and the plants they ate are largely wiped out in this mess that is here now.
Suzanne says – PS – for more documentation of the State using the word ‘weeds’ – look here http://suzannekelly.yolasite.com, especially Appendix 1 – soil report http://suzannekelly.yolasite.com/resources/Appendix%201%20tullos_forest_research_soil_report_20111017134315.pdf
All the best with the re- opening Karen. I will be popping in as soon as I’m home again.
For anyone who has yet to enjoy the pleasure of informal dining at the Brown Sugar, I cannot recommend it highly enough.
Excellent food, with all dietary requirements catered for and extremely friendly and helpful staff, make the Brown Sugar a must for anyone visiting Upper Deeside.
Since when was five wee apple trees an orchard?
probably since Tullos Hill’s current state deserved ‘Diamond Forest’ status and signage 🙁 – Suzanne says
That’s brilliant news.
I’ll be popping in for a bowl of soup shortly.
Aaaargh!
Having worked somewhere this was piloted it is nothing more than an update to what any decent school/council should have had in place. Are the acronyms annoying – yes, but they are designed to help people working with children identify areas of concern and start discussions about next steps. Common sense and professional judgement will be used every step along the way (as it always has) but GIRFEC and SHANARRI are updates to educationally required child protection guidelines to protect the countries most vulnerable children.
Suzanne says ‘AArgh!’ right back at you. If you’d care to address the points the article brings up, great (did you read the piece?). Common sense and professional judgement – like the woman who sailed through the NP training and is now struck off for her paedophile fantasies? Sure. FYI I’ve talked to people who’ve been on the other end of the pilot scheme who aren’t as thrilled as you are. Here’s an interesting debate http://no2np.org/bbc-question-time-named-person-scheme-strange-says-dimbleby/ . It boils down to state control over all families. If you’re happy with that great. There are a great many people out here who prefer their freedom and rights of the individual. The ‘head gardener’ description given to the NPs when explained to children – doesn’t that tell the children that their parents are secondary. Cost to Aberdeen city is thought to be £2 million a year.
Ah… “common sense and professional judgement”.
As the son of two teachers (one of them a guidance teacher) I would like to think that the NP role will be filled with people possessing these qualities in abundance.
Sadly, as the father of a child with additional support needs, I find them to be severely lacking.
Our son has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers. This makes his behaviour challenging at times, making it all the more necessary for parents and school to work in partnership.
However, his first headteacher (identified prematurely as his Named Person on one of the GIRFEC forms) ascribed his difficulties to “lack of parental consequences” (I fail to see how not punishing a child sufficiently could lead to them having fixations and literal thinking…) and placed a huge added strain on our relationship with our son as we dealt with not only his behaviour, but the ignorant condemnation arising from it. Her attitude was ignorant, judgemental, patronising, smug and self-righteous.. and I’ll stop before I reach the darker end of my vocabulary.
And this was the person who would be responsible for our son’s “wellbeing”… I note the school were recently participating in “Autism Awareness Week” – I hope the head teacher learned something.
Another participant in the “Staged Intervention” meetings (beautifully described by one comment I’ve seen as “Six people telling you how rotten your kid is, but they’re there to help”) was the Educational Psychologist. I’m not sure if she had children herself, or had ever actually met any real children… at one point when there seemed like the vague hope of her actually getting involved, she said “That would be an interesting wee research project for me!”. I’m glad she found our family’s mental health such fertile ground…
I should say, that amongst the “professionals” we’ve met there are those who will say “I’ve been there” or “My son gets a taxi to school” or “I know what it’s like to get the phone-calls [from school]” which is a tremendous reassurance that the person you are dealing with will have some insight and wisdom.
Regarding the whole “GrrrFeck!” (as we have come to think of it) and SHANARRI stuff… I find it extremely offensive that there is one process which is used for intervention regardless of whether it is for protection concerns, or because your child has, for example, a neuro-biological condition. The original poster perpetuates that conflation.
But, back to the named person scheme.
In contrast to our relationship with our son’s first Head Teacher, the one we had with his Health Visitor was extremely helpful. She was (and is) someone we could trust and rely upon for advice and referrals (e.g. to CAMHS – Oh- the waiting list is 6 months already, if there is to be a huge increase arising from the NP scheme)
However, the NP scheme will undermine this sort of relationship with a trusted professional, requiring them to conduct multiple hour-long interrogations on such matters as family finance! That isn’t Daily Mail hyperbole, it’s in the plan here: http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0048/00487884.pdf
Wonderful stuff, Suzanne. This one deserves to go down in history. Talk about bought and sold for foreign gold, such a parcel of rogues in a nation. Or a Shire! Not to mention the point-blank refusal of public authorities to do the job they are paid for. Then we wonder how places like Ukraine end up the way they are.
Suzanne says Thank you very much. The police are overdue in answering a FOI I did to explain how often exactly they spend time and taxpayer money on pursuing someone for allegedly peeing in public – they haven’t answered yet. I wonder why not.
This is the force who once heartily embarrassed themselves by lifting one of their own guys for peeing in a public toilet when he was off-duty – I wonder if they will ever own-up that…?
So I suspect they may have many more widdling tales to tell!
Suzanne says: I thought you were talking pish for a moment, but then some of the AV staff recalled that fine moment in policing history. Apparently 3,000 people were FINED (not hounded at home or hauled to court) for public urination c. 2015. Finally, here’s another story of a police officer taking the p*ss http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/drink-driving-traffic-cop-who-tampered-1038081#qC5RtJfOA1tkBQI1.97
Thank you Eilidh. Like many women of my age, I just ‘put up with’ even more inequality for women in the form of the unfair handling of raising the Pension age . It is so good to hear of WASPI’s actions and of your support, and this article has inspired me, and I hope others to claim both our rights and respectful treatment.
Had to stop drinking my afternoon cuppa while reading this in case I chuckled so much I trashed my keyboard! Brilliant as ever, Suzanne – what actually happened during the whole fiasco beggars belief – looking forward to updating our American friends when we visit them soon…
Is your oil whole plant extract, from cannabis, and not hemp? Do you also have THC-acid, which is being used to treat seizures? THC-a is also not psychoactive, and has been very helpful in treating intractable seizures. What strains are being used to produce the CBD oil? Thank you for your assistance.
Addendum: By what method is the oil extracted? (BHO, CO2, alcohol, naptha, etc). Thanks
Suzanne Kelly says: UKCBD will be our preferred supplier; they have a wide range of products made different ways; please see their website (link in the article). I personally think THC oil should be legalised asap. Thank you for your interest
It’s too ridiculous for words, that this medicine is still being kept from those who need it. It’s cruel and immoral. I will check out the website.
So then what you’re providing is hemp oil? That’s not the same as full plant therapeutic cannabis oil.
No, it’s not the same as THC-containing oil, but I think you’ll find there are many other components in CBD oil that some people find therapeutic – https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=medical+benefits+of+CBD+oil
In struggling to make sense of this issue, I decided to do a little research.
As I understand it, the retirement/pension age in the UK had, for many years, been 60 for women and 65 for men. This peculiar inequality in favour of women, as far as I understand it, did not lead to a women’s equality campaign to increase the retirement age for women to 65 or reduce the retirement age of men to 60 at any time.
Although the WASPI message seems unclear, I understand they would like the retirement age for women, born during the 1950’s, to revert back to 60 and for the retirement age for women born in 1960 and thereafter to be immediately increased to 66 in line with that of men.
This, I feel, invites questions of WASPI, some of whose members it is alleged, have attacked Pensions Minister – Ros Altmann who said: “These women have e – mailed me with horrid and vile messages, such as hoping I get struck down with cancer, that I’m a traitor, a turncoat and that I’ve sold my soul to the devil” and makes one wonder whether their issue is one of equality or just disappointment that moving towards equality has resulted in them, personally, losing the advantage afforded them by the previous inequality?
Notwithstanding the somewhat debatable validity and dubious morality of the WASPI stance, it is not surprising to see the SNP embark on yet another opportunistic and populist crusade, with nothing constructive to say about the inevitable difficulties in attempting to keep everyone happy during a time of transition from clear advantage for women to a more equal arrangement.
Personally, I find the continual rabble – rousing and sectarianism of the SNP depressing, rather than inspiring, and would like to hear Ms Whiteford explain exactly what transitional arrangements she would prefer to put in place and how she would pay for them.
At long last………..this story hits the public domain via an on-line publication who had the guts to take it on. I salute Aberdeen Voice for do this.
Well done Scott…… It is very necessary for important matters such as this to be opened up and taken into the public domain. At the end of the day, the tax payer provides the money to these Councils and we are all entitled to know what happens to the funds. I sincerely hope that this article leads to the full public awareness that it deserves and that after what has been a very long and stressful time for you, this whole matter is taken seriously and receives a full investigation so that the people behind all this can be brought to account for their actions and or failings.
Heads need to roll and people need to learn!
The big problem is that such organizations rely on their sheer size to bully and intimidate the small people – us the public! and that gives them the opinion that they can all do what they like, ignoring rules and laws. We just have to look at what the banks did only a few years ago and we are all still suffering from that sorry episode.
The Deputy Provost was quite correct to suggest that the police should be notified. This should have been automatically done by the Council. From what I understand, there a great many items of very substantial value held in galleries and museums up and down the Country and that many of these objects still remain in the ownership of individuals or the families and others who have entrusted the galleries or museums to fully protect everything in their possession. Likewise, all the other items held in these places are the property of the tax payer. They are not the personal possessions of the Council. With the Council and in fact every Council as you mention, not having full insurance cover, is surely a gross failing on their part to honour the professional commitment and requirements that they should provide as a minimum responsibility and what the public expect.
On whistle blowing, there was an article in the Press & Journal only this week, dealing with the intimidation and bullying behaviour from institutions against those who stand up and through honesty, reveal wrong doings! For 70% of investigations to be basically swept aside with supposedly no wrong doing being found, is quite clearly a wrong doing in itself and needs to be fully investigated.
More people need to stand up like you are doing Scott and have the guts and determination to reveal everything. Keep going and do not give in!!
You raise a number of pertinent points. The majority of local government art gallery items are not owned by Councils, they are either on loan from members of the public, owned by the citizens of the Council and thus the Council are custodians or are items in a travelling exhibition. Very, very high value items on loan from national galleries are covered under government indemnity and the Council are required to insure 1% value of these but even the 1% can be a reasonably high sum.
My FOI request was specifically sent to all 32 Scottish Councils asking only about PIDA disclosures ie proper disclosures under the public interest act that they had records for. In 70% of such cases no wrong doing was found and I believe this this is far too high an outcome. The person on the Scottish parliament site who raised petition PE01488 and PE01605 fully understands the situation……………..Its called integrity risk. Whistle blowing cases attract a high integrity risk from within the organisation where the whistle is blown. The petitioner fully realises that to eradicate this risk from occurring ie preventing cover ups etc one has to create a system where the whistle is blown via an external whistle blowing hotline run externally and outwith the Council. He has managed to get Edinburgh City Council to change onto this system and its run very successfully for 2 years. They have recently published a report on the 2yr trial period and they are very happy with the outcome and are keeping it. ECC are the only Council in Scotland to run such a system. Prior to it they had quite a few problems I understand re disclosures going wrong and not investigated properly.
Thanks for expanding on the whistle blowing. Do you think that had the external process now used by Edinburgh C.C. been in operation at Aberdeen C.C., your whistle blowing disclosure would have received a different outcome and the wrong doings would have been exposed?
As I have said in another post, it appears that with all that has happened to you, everyone at Aberdeen C.C. from the CEO down , including PWC are complicit to what was going on. In which case, this is of National importance and should now be fully uncovered, investigated and all of the wrong doings and those implicated in the decision making process must be exposed to the public. After all, these people are employed by the tax payer to look after their best interests – not to play games with the public assets and finances.
For an investigator to destroy correspondence and exclude pertinent documents from such an important Report is beyond comprehension and his actions alone must merit a full investigation. If there was nothing to hide, then why go to the trouble of destroying correspondence and one wonders, what else has been destroyed.
Thankfully, there has not been a disaster at any of the galleries or museums involved, but what would have happened if there had been major loss through fire or theft? What about damage by flooding or even as a result of building decay? There was a recent case of flood damage at an art gallery in Glasgow and we frequently read of open theft from galleries. Would Aberdeen C.C. or any of the other councils be duty bound to publish full details of such a disaster, or would this just be covered up too when it came to the fine detail of there being no suitable insurance cover to protect
the items concerned.
Surely, as far as Scotland is concerned, this is now a matter which needs to be seriously investigated and reviewed by the Scottish Government with fixed legislation being introduced? You mentioned that you had already taken your case to the Paliament and nothing happened. Does this suggest that there is yet another stone walling to protect certain parties from a deeper investigation, or is this just a case of incompetence?
I am curious to know if the Deputy Provost will go ahead and report this entire matter to the police. Have you thought about going to the police direct?
There appears to be a great deal of information to be revealed and carefully investigated.
Just a further couple of questions. The readers who are following this article and the ultimate exposure of a clear wrong doing, may, like me, also be questioning whether the money paid out by Aberdeen CC and other councils across the Country for the Zurich insurance policies, has in fact been a total waste of tax payers resources? You may not be able to answer this question Scott, but just how much money has been spent by Aberdeen CC on insurance policies which are totally useless over say the past 10 years? What would be the purpose of taking out insurance cover which is ineffective and at the ultimate risk of having no suitable protection for priceless works of art. Surely nobody can gain from this and the whole thing is total mismanagement and incompetence?
This begs a final question: if this practice goes on with insurance cover for publicly managed works of art etc., should everyone now be examining the wording of their insurance policies for any valuable items owned and supposedly protected by what could be a worthless piece of paper.
Suzanne says – that’s probably the best set of logical, intelligent questions I’ve seen posted on AV these many years.
Mr Mackay raises a number of important points in his 2 additional posts and I will try and deal with these.
1. IMO Had ACC had an external hotline in place when I blew the whistle this mess would never have happened. It would have resulted in the Police being notified correctly and very early on in the investigation and my whistle blowing disclosure fully upheald.
2. I believe Aberdeen City Councils CEO (and current Legal Head) are complicit in this and are covering their internal auditors who are PWC. They are I think covering them to prevent any exposure of wrong which was carried out by their internal auditors and where this would expose a massive failing in the Corporate Governance of Aberdeen City Council and where criminal acts were pointed out, covered up and nullified.
3. The Scottish Government seem to be lagging way behind the times when it comes to whistle blowing in the public sector and where serious integrity risk exists with said disclosures. The problem is that organisations like Audit Scotland, Local Govt Ombudsman etc leave Councils up to their own devises with regards to handling these matters with little oversight into the monitoring of cases . Thus the integrity risk can become huge. There is no oversight whatsoever with regards these matters apart from ensuring that procedures are in place. Procedures that can be warped, twisted, distorted from within the organisation where the whistle was blown. I have 25yrs professional experience in Risk Management which is a subject which identifies, analyses and controls risk in areas of corporate life. Integrity risk or corruption risk (if you prefer) is the number 1 risk associated with protected interest disclosures and that risk oozes from within the organisations where the disclosure was made.
4. I reported this to the Police myself by walking into Queen Street Police station during 2015. The matter was passed on to their fraud squad who I chased 3 times over the phone. One evening I got an inspector on the phone (he never visited to obtain documented evidence) and he went away to check a few points. I got a message left on my answer phone that he had carried out some due diligence checks by ( by phoning ACC’s legal unit) and he was dropping it. He would have been told that the PWC investigative report showed “no wrongs” and thus it was a tick box exercise in time wasting.
5. ACC pay Zurich Municipal circa £1.5M per annum in insurance premiums. This overall premium is for an insurance portfolio of covers such as employers liability cover, public liability cover, buildings insurance and motor insurance cover. All these covers were ok. This matter relates to the insurance cover of the high value art items only. The covers however are critical as they relate to ultra high value paintings valued at £32M downwards. Overall they amount to one of the highest value on shore risks north of Edinburgh which are highly susceptible to fire and theft.
6. With regards Zurich Municipals insurance arrangements for the high value art items which IMO never at any stage met the Councils insurance tender document since 96/97. Zurich Municipal resorted IMO to lying, cheating and engaging in wilful fraudulent misrepresentation on the arrangement at ACC in addition to operating a UK wide insurance scam with regards to the essential fire cover of the entire countries art collections that were under the control of UK local government. The fire insurance scam only ended with dramatic changes to UK insurance law specifically addressing problems relating to non disclosure.
Thanks Suzanne. I just feel that nowadays, the public are required to contribute large sums of money towards every aspect of life and where we have to rely upon other people, whether it be the council, NHS or any other organization, Public or Private, we should be entitled to have clarity and complete honesty at all times. It is not much to expect or ask for. It seems very sad and a terrible situation that someone such as Scott Shaw, has effectively had his career ruined by being honest and revealing a failure in the system, which should never have happened in the first place.
Thank you Scott for answering my questions.
Would I be right in thinking that during the period of time since you exposed these wrong doings, the CEO, the Head of Finance and also the Head of Legal, amongst others at Aberdeen CC have all departed and been replaced. It would seem that the new individuals, having declared that nothing was wrong in their eyes, are now also complicit to what has taken place. Either that, or they are all totally incompetent?
By refusing to accept what was happening, despite all of the evidence which you have submitted, clearly shows that there must be something much deeper and more complex going on. Why would an organization such as PWC want to risk having their reputation damaged by being party to such activities? As you say, there must be a massive failing in Corporate Governance at the Council which has become totally endemic throughout the entire entity, so much so, that the risk of any public exposure, would have significant repercussions and financial implications up and down the Country. Hence the need to bury it?
From what you have said, it appears that the Scottish Government and I assume therefore, the local MP and the local Government Ombudsman are doing nothing? You also mentioned that you went personally to the Police and they are not taking the matter up. Do you think the Deputy Provost may now report everything, given that was his wish?
What about Audit Scotland. Would they not be duty bound to now investigate every aspect of this? Now that it has been shown without doubt from the evidence which you have collected, there is something very wrong, surely they must take this seriously and demand answers.
As for Zurich, it would appear that for many years they have been collecting hundreds of thousands of pounds for potentially worthless policies, not just from Aberdeen CC but from all of the other Councils and organizations who have taken out similar insurance cover through them.
I really hope that you can take this forward and are not bullied into submission, as frequently happens with the big guy, small guy scenario !
I will attempt to answer the points you raise in your recent post,
The disclosure was made in March 2012 and the then acting CEO and Monitoring Officer have since departed. The Current CEO and Monitoring Officer have been made fully aware of matters via an extensive professional 160 page report including extensive appendix sections. They are IMO complicit via their stubborn refusal to accept proven facts.
I believe the much deeper malaise which exists within ACC is a constant oozing lack of integrity in the face of empirically proven fact and where it is now understood that they engaged the services of a cohort (PWC) who were IMO quite happy to prostitute themselves for money. Integrity didn’t get a look in I believe. And you are right………….it seems the corporate governance of Aberdeen City Council is riddled with incompetence and intentional oversight. A perfect example of this is my suspension letter of 30th March 2012 where it is apparent that the finance director/line manager personally approached the organisation highlighted as committing wrongs in an attempt to coerce that organisation into bring charges against me. I quote this out of my suspension letter:
“Serious concerns have been raised by Zurich Municipal as to the inappropriateness of your handling of certain areas of the Council’s insurance portfolio; this has potential to cause serious reputational damage to the Council ”
You couldn’t make this up, you really couldn’t. As soon as I blew the whistle on the wrongs IMO a numpty finance director and line manger immediately run to the wrong doer via telephone contact to get the wrong doer to come forward with charges that they then write in a suspension letter. And that is after they were both fully aware of the serious nature of the wrongs being committed against the Council ! It is the corporate governance of Alice in Wonderland.
Audit Scotland are currently carrying out a tick box investigation which will IMO not address and tackle the serious failings with regards to this case. They should be addressing and looking what I believe were the serious breaches in ACC’s corporate governance and particularly where PWC were involved. Of course the Police should be called and I have already made this obvious to Audit Scotland that they need to do this.
And as for Zurich Municipal you are absolutely right. Hundreds of thousands of pounds around the UK and over decades have been raked in for an insurance arrangement that was completely useless IMO. It was I believe intentionally useless due to the documentation scam that was running on Councils for decades which IMO cheated these organisations out of fire essential fire cover.
I won’t be bullied into any submission. It is they who are frightened to meet with me and not the other way round.
Unbelievable……………..I also would be very interested to hear how many prosecutions they have made for urinating in public. Behind a sand dune is not exactly public. What happens if you are sick in a public place ? Lol. That must deserve 10 days in jail at least.
Great article
This alternative Queen’s Speech, in my view, represents approximately similar value to the tax – payer, as the new SNP MP’s, Angus MacNeil and Stewart Hosie did whilst swanning around London hotels, and cheating on their wives by taking turns with the same woman, allegedly at our expense on occasion.
The SNP MP’s clearly have so little to do in London and so little to contribute, that they have time to squabble over mistresses and indulge in pointless political grandstanding, whilst their ex Leader – Alex Salmond, takes to the airwaves on his weekly London radio show to announce to the world that he diid indeed “gild the lily”, in other words deliberately mislead the people of Scotland.
Given the chance to raise taxes to boost education and public services in Scotland, the SNP have steadfastly refused to do so, yet at Westminster they propose the raising of the top rate of income tax to 50% and criticise the UK Government for failing to do so.
It is, in my opinion, just this this kind of hypocrisy and deception which will eventually lead to their downfall.
All power to you Scott.
I understand exactly how frustrating and stressful this must have been. Don’t let the bad guys grind you down and the very best of luck.
Well done AV!
Thanks very much Bruce…………….the main stress that comes with most whistle blowing saga’s is after the whistle is blown. The organisation into which the whistle was blown either takes a right move or a wrong one. If they take a wrong one and then try to cover up what has been exposed the journey becomes very stressful. All power to AV for getting involved.
It sounds like another cover up going on here. Big organisations trying to silence individuals. I would have thought that you should have been fully protected as a whistle blower?
If this is the case, how did you find out about the councils not having fire cover?
Thanks for your comments John. Protection for UK whistle blowers is spurious. It is meant to be provided by a piece of legislation called the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 and via the tribunal courts. Fair judicial process however can only occur if the organisation into which the whistle was blown are being honest and open regarding the findings of any investigation that has taken place into the wrongs. If they wilfully cover up wrongs then they are misleading a court. This happened in my case and PWC are the cause of that.
Regarding your question concerning the fire cover. This involved a documentation scam that Zurich Municipal were using against their entire UK customer base. The annual renewal document or disclosure document to be more precise induced customers into non disclosure of high value art items under Part A of the policy where they were supposed to be insured for fire, lightening, earthquake and aircraft cover. Councils only disclosure these items where they were asked ie under Part K of the disclosure document. If you look at the exclusions under Part K that AV have posted you will see fire cover is excluded. Thus Councils had no fire cover for decades in this arrangement. I have verified this via FOI to all Councils who used the arrangement. The legal scam came to an end via important changes to non disclosure insurance legislation which are to be introduced. When the scam was up ie Zurich Municipal would have to pay fire claims regardless of the non disclosure having occurred they then redesigned their All Risks policy and included fire cover but without telling their Uk customers what they were doing. How could they tell them ? They also charged no increased premium for doing this as the scam would also have been apparent to their UK customer base. The scam worked a treat for over 20yrs and for that duration Aberdeen City Council and many other Councils throughout the UK had no fire cover for ultra high value fire susceptible works of art which would burn in minutes.
How do you know the theft cover was fraudulently misrepresented??
If you look at the Zurich Municipal document dated 2003 that AV have posted you will see the best example you are ever going to see of fraudulent misrepresentation of a commercial insurance policy. The ZM underwriting division produced this at a tender time when questions were being asked concerning covers stipulated in the Councils insurance tender document. ZM drafted and sent this letter to fraudulently deceive me into believing the contents of it were true. 3 of the covers in the letter are direct contradictions to the exclusions within the policy itself ans you can see this clearly. There is no definition of theft cover in the Part K policy (it is defined in Part L which is also posted). The ZM underwriting unit were endeavouring to make me believe the policy operated on a full theft cover basis ie unforced entry/exit thefts would be covered. They did this again in March 2012. After I was suspended on 30th March 2012 I found out via the Insurance Officer at Highland Council that they had a walk in theft turned down by ZM on the same arrangement and they received a letter stating that the theft peril operated on the restricted basis ie restricted to break in/out and/or force against a person. My extensive FOI research indicates that many claims around the UK have been turned down for unforced walk in/out theft. One Council……….Tamworth Borough Council received e-mail confirmation from ZM’s underwriting unit itself that the theft cover is restricted and thus the is 100% categorical. ZM used fraudulent misrepresentation at Aberdeen City Council over an extensive number of years on this important cover in order to deceive ACC into believing the policy met the tender requirements. They did this knowingly, willingly and intentionally.
And the theft cover was part of your disclosure? Didn’t the PWC investigation look into this as it was one of the concerns you raised via your whistle blowing disclosure?
Stuart raises a key fundamental point in relation to the matter.
The issue over the theft cover was the main thrust of my whistle blowing disclosure and which was highlighted to both my line manager and the finance director. It was specifically discussed (and understood) during a private meeting with both at 2.00pm on Wednesday 28th March 2012 in the ground floor meeting room of Aberdeen City Councils AECC offices. This followed a long e-mail sent to the finance director on 26th March 2012 highlighting the problem and where an extensive explanation of the long standing problem with the theft cover was provided and where I state:
“Zurich have basically been committing longstanding policy wording fraud on the Council”
That e-mail was part of my disclosure and was examined by the Councils Monitoring Officer (Head of Legal). In my letter to her I again explain the problem with regards misrepresentation of key covers and state:
“My reporting under whistle blowing rules follows my repeated attempts to bring the matter to line managers attention and also to the attentions of finance director. Repetitive attempts to raise this very important issue regarding the Councils insurances has fallen on deaf ears and therefore I have no alternative but to now raise these matters with yourself via the internal whistle blowing rules”
The IMO fraudulent misrepresentation with regards the theft cover was the key area of concern in my whistle blowing disclosure. What I believe amounts to proof of the criminal nature behind the ZM underwriters activities was discovered via a lengthy discussion in person with Highland Councils insurance officer and when I met this person during May 2012. This important evidence was presented to the PWC investigative officer during a meeting with him on 25th June 2012 at PWC’s Aberdeen offices and where he took extensive notes and said he would investigate the matter. He also stated that there would be further meetings with regards the matter. At this stage I believe it should have been a Police investigation with the PWC person making a quick telephone call to the Highland Council insurance officer prior to passing the matter over to the Police.
The PWC investigator did neither. No further meetings took place with me and I learnt much latter that he neither had made contact with Highland Councils insurance officer who had the evidence waiting on his desk. when I learnt of this I notified the Councils Monitoring Officer via e-mail of these facts and that a central issue of the investigation had not been carried out. She ignored it even though she had the PWC report in her possession at the time and where it was clearly obvious the matter had not been dealt with. When I eventually received the PWC report it was apparent that the PWC investigator had IMO wilfully fabricated an e-mail specifically relating to the theft cover and where he was trying to provide protection to the ZM underwriter who was engaging in what seems like criminal fraudulent misrepresentation against the Council. His report is IMO full of e-mail fabrications, altering of time events and omissions of key documents such as the 2003 Zurich document that AV have posted and where historic fraudulent misrepresentation is apparent.
By engaging in these activities I believe the PWC investigator therefore ignored investigating (and reporting top the Police) the criminal activity and indeed attempted to cover it up via his fabrications within his report. It has been possible to expose this key e-mail fabrication within his report only after having to expend a horrendous amount of time and by using 6 separate corroborative pieces of evidence to expose it has having been an intentional fabrication. All these are in my 160 page report which was presented to Ms Angela Scott, CEO of Aberdeen City Council on 9th November 2015 yet in a recent letter to me dated 7th March 2016 she expresses her satisfaction with the PWC investigation and report.
It would seem that a group that is in a position to council or advise the public in various matters would take it upon themselves to have all the information that is available.
This would also include finding ways to use the city or towns finances in ways that best serve the public.
I would say that this in no way has been done in this case.
Perhaps it is time that this council look at the position they hold and represent that position.
Local government is structured around various committee’s run by democratically elected councillors and Officers who are the paid employee’s of the Council. Any whistle blowing concern raised has to pass to a Monitoring Officer (paid Officer) for approval. IMO In my case this Monitoring Officer skewed the disclosure somewhat to keep the mention of wrongs out of the disclosure and thus out of any report which would eventually go back into committee. IMO The whistle blowing investigative officer (PWC) failed to carry out an investigation into wrongs even when these were discussed with him on 25th June 2012. Thus when his resultant report was produced and returned to the Monitoring Officer there were no wrongs mentioned as part of the disclosure and no wrongs found. That sanitised report then gets presented to committee and misleads them.
This is how big town hall works. They can then pull the shutters down on the whole thing and go into denial. And why a wrong can still exist on the arrangement 4 yrs after it was clearly identified.
Scott, could it therefore be assumed that they ( the Council and PWC) all knew that the wrongs had taken place and therefore did not bother to investigate the matter, hence the fact that the Monitoring Officer failed on purpose, to keep the mention of wrongs out of the initial report? and that evidence was subsequently destroyed or not included in the final PWC Report. Could it be, that these wrongs are just the tip of a much larger iceberg, in which numerous other wrongs have not been disclosed or have been systematically covered up? Therefore, this would surely mean that everyone from the CEO, the Legal Officer and Compliance Officer and every other senior official in the Council who is in a position of control and / or trust, is complicit to what has and presumably still is taking place. Not to mention PWC who were appointed to “investigate” the matter.
Do you happen to know how much PWC were paid for conducting this investigation?
The primary reason for the Monitoring Officer from keeping wrongs out of the disclosure and report that she presented to Council Committee on 18th April 2012 was to block any wrongs from exposed to democratically elected councillors. It also meant that they kept out of being recorded via Council minutes. You are correct in your assumption that they knew wrongs had been pointed out and as long as they did not investigate them then how could they be proven. They, however did not calculate or even remotely see the possibility of a whistle blower being able to prove the wrongs and account for the wrongs via his/her own investigation and independently provided documentation.
The destruction of e-mail documentation at PWC’s Glasgow office was an attempt to destroy an audit trail which would prove the highly corrupted nature of the PWC investigation and report. The PWC investigator was sat in his Glasgow office with a pile of e-mails fabricating a story line and was then allowed to destroy the lot which contravenes Audit Scotland guidelines on fraud/whistle blowing investigations.
Aberdeen City Councils current CEO and Legal Head are entirely complicit in this matter. Totally so. Both of them are specified designated statutory officers who are compelled via statute to account for wrongs as and when these are apparent and have been pointed out to them. They choose not to do this and therefore are displaying extremely low integrity and ethical standards and where they continue to do this. They chose to bring further reputational damage on their organisation and where criminal fraudulent insurance misrepresentation is still in place.
PWC were paid exactly £3,750 – exclusive of VAT which would have been charged on the total invoice costs, which is reclaimable from HMRC. I quote directly from a FOI request I made to the Council re the cost of the PWC. Nearly £4,000 for an IMO corrupted report which I believe ignored white collar criminal activity and perverted due legal process in a public court of law.
Sorry………..there’s a typo. The Monitoring Officer first presented the report to Council Committee on 18th April 2013.
Scott, This is quite incredible. Who oversees the conduct of the Monitoring Officer?
To supress this or any evidence of a wrong doing from the elected councillors who effectively represent the public is very wrong. Have you thought of approaching the councillors directly yourself?
For anyone to destroy documentation which is part of evidence, must surely be a criminal act and at the very least, totally unprofessional. PWC must have received written instructions from someone to go ahead with the destroying of the emails and documentation. However, it is almost impossible to destroy the embedded electronic evidence from a computer system and if a full investigation was opened up, it should be possible to retrieve the evidence.
From what you have said and evidenced, the CEO and Legal Head are certainly appear to be devoid of professional integrity, having failed to deal with your complaints or any of this properly. Should the Legal Head not be reported to the Law Society so that they can instigate an investigation? Likewise for the previous Legal Head. Who or which organization is responsible for the conduct of the CEO ?
There are many questions yet to be answered! As I said the other day, is this just the tip of a very large iceberg? Finally, rather than end up with a complete disaster lurching out of control, would it not be in the Council`s interests to admit they were wrong, had failed in the due diligence of the insurance policies and apologise to you for what they have done to you and to the public for the costly failure in protecting their property. The truth can never hurt!
You have hit on some very pertinent points and I will address these.
There is no oversight of the Monitoring Officer (Head of Legal) with regards whistle blowing disclosures which are passed to this person once they are made. This is the number 1 primary integrity risk regarding such disclosures in Scottish Local Government today IMO. A Head of Legal is the worst possible person who could be solely put in charge of said disclosures and with no opinions or input from any other person with regards said disclosures IMO.
The Head of Legal thus acts as a filterer of bad news from ever reaching Councillors. If the disclosure can be handled and dealt with easily then the system will function as it should and Cllr’s would be made aware of the full nature of the disclosure. However, if the disclosure is awkward with the possibility of large fall out risk occurring via the exposing of wrongs associated with an important provider of Council services then the integrity of the whole system falls apart totally. My case is a perfect example and illustrates this clearly.
With regards to electronic data storage, you are quite correct. In the case of ACC it is kept off site via an external hard drive provider and instruction would probably have already been given by now to wipe all trace of e-mail data off the records. However, I do not need the full e-mail records of the last two weeks in March 2012 to prove what I believe is extensive e-mail fabrications within the PWC report. The e-mails that do exist (and which I have) prove the fabrications. The destruction of said e-mails breached both Audit Scotland guidelines into fraud/whistle blowing investigations and also data retention requirements for outsourced work as laid down by the Standards for Scottish Solicitors Professional Practice Rules 2011.
I believe the current CEO of ACC, Ms Angela Scott and her current legal head are devoid of professional integrity with regards this matter. Ms Angela Scott has continually refused to meet me to discuss (after asking her in writing 3 times for a meeting) and they continue to be entirely obstinate in their refusal to accept facts. A disaster lurching out of control is what they seem to desire and where they still have an insurance arrangement with fraudulent misrepresentation in place. The truth hurts if it proves the entire corporate governance of ACC surrounding this matter has failed and failed dismally.
It must have been very stressful and frustrating for an individual to go through this particularly there are cover ups and wrongdoing in this case! Best of luck!
Hi,
The investigation you say was carried out by PWC. Why did they not uncover the issues you have discussed? thanks
Thanks for your post David. The point you raise has been dealt with in my reply to an early post sent by Stuart. After reading please come back with any further questions you may have with respects PWC and the activities they engaged in. Regards.
Shocking to see big professional firms behaving like that! Was the PWC whistle blowing investigative report presented to the tribunal court by the Council?
Good question. The PWC investigative report was IMO a highly corrupted account of fact and where the PWC report IMO engaged in extensive e-mail fabrications and altering of time events and where he was apparently allowed to destroy all e-mail documentation within PWC’s Glasgow offices prior to forwarding an undated and unsigned corrupted account of fact back to the Council. The Councils Monitoring Officer knew that he had not dealt with the central issue relating to my disclosure as she was informed by me via e-mail and she had a copy of the PWC report in her possession. She however as the Councils head of legal used this IMO corrupted report and presented it to the tribunal court as a true account of fact and thus was responsible (along with her PWC cohorts) I believe of wilfully misleading a court and denying due legal process to take place. She is a current committee member of the Law Society of Scotland for god’s sake. Recently retired out of ACC with a nice fat augmented superannuated pension I understand.
You ,as a member of professional body/associate, acted ethically but IMO the Council and PWC misled a public court and cheated you out of a fair tribunal hearing that you lost your job. That is absolutely disgraceful. I do hope your case gains wider exposure and is being heard from the Audit Scotland. Shame that it has ruined your career!! Very best of luck, Scott.
You have mentioned problems over the theft cover related to Art Donations. Does that mean as a potential donor of Art to the Council that any high value Art is not covered unless there are obvious break-in signs? For example – where is my Picasso that I lent – I want it back to sell it. Err we don’t know and since there are no signs of a break-in it’s not actually insured therefore the value is effectively lost? Bad luck! Can councils having this policy therefore really be trusted with major (or minor) items of Art having any value at all? If it’s also inadequately for by fire then that is truly dreadful and represents a possible major cultural loss.
regards,
Colin Harrison
Very valid post Mr Harrison and you are bang on the money. There is no insurance in place for walk in/walk out thefts or thefts by other means without force. This could include thefts where a thief hides in an art gallery during opening hours and then raids the place during closing hours and escapes via a fire exit. The possibilities of committing theft without force is endless and is a primary risk for all uk art galleries open to the public. Aberdeen art gallery staff themselves say this risk is a major concern.
IMO Zurich Municipal know full well that their policy does not cover for these events but rather than being truthful about this shortcoming they chose to commit white collar crime via fraudulently misrepresenting the cover. After the IMO corrupted PWC document came into existence, Aberdeen City Council got a second opinion and after viewing e-mail statements forwarded by the ZM underwriter he wrote:
“It is apparent from the examination of documents made available that the Insurance Company has categorically stated that Theft losses are insured whether there is evidence of forcible entry or exit from the premises. In addition as the policy wording does not stipulate that theft is only covered in such circumstances (ie of forcible entry or exit) it is impossible to follow anything other than the Insurers written confirmation on this point.
Therefore it is clear that he believes and Aberdeen City Council believe (from what ZM are saying) that theft cover is Full ie would cover walk in thefts. This point is important as for fraudulent misrepresentation to exist it is important that one can prove that the misrepresentation has been believed.
His comment that the policy does not stipulate the theft cover is incorrect as it is clearly stipulated in the place where it should be ie under the contracts definition of theft cover and AV have posted this clearly as part of the article. Zurich Municipals theft cover is clearly defined in the only place where it needs to be ie under theft cover.
The point you make about the UK wide public sector scam involving the historic hole in fire cover for Council art galleries is absolutely correct. No insurance means no money. This scam has fortunately been brought to a close via pending UK wide insurance legislation. At the present moment in time it is highly unlikely that any UK local government organisation are aware of this. It was a complex documentation scam (IMO) which I have touched upon via my reply to John who posted earlier. It however should be fully exposed and to organisations who continue to rely on Zurich Municipal for insurance and Risk Management services. This insurer has been proven to be the largest single risk that these organisations had IMO.
It strikes me that even on my own land, if it was a part of it with a reasonable assumption of public access, I could well be facing a raft of pretty unpleasant charges if I went around filming or photographing people peeing.
Its not like she was deliberately or maliciously watering the greens!
Thanks for reply – Whistleblowing seems a very risky occupation if your notes are anything to go by – is there any possibility that some sort of independent investigation will go forward highlighting the issues you describe?
Colin
Audit Scotland are carrying out a month long investigation into this as we write. It is due to be finalised by the end of May. Audit Scotland are the external auditors of all Scottish local government organisations.
I guarantee that this investigation will not look nor document anything with regards the seriousness of what has taken place. It will not document the longstanding situation that existed with regards fire cover and nor tackle the (IMO) fraudulent misrepresentation that still exists with regards theft cover. It should also tackle and deal with the very serious failings in Corporate Governance which took place within Aberdeen City Council where (IMO) their own internal auditors (PWC) intentionally ignored investigating and purposefully covered up my disclosure.
An additional comment with regards the current Audit Scotland investigation.
I first made contact with this organisation in during 2013 when I e-mailed them details of the problem. I again made successive attempts to involve them during 2014 where their involvement may have prevented (IMO) a court being misled via the PWC report. During the later part of 2015 and when I was virtually kicking the door down of the Auditor General of Scotland they started to show an interest and have agreed to carry out an investigation.
This investigation needs to document the long standing failings in fire with respects to ACC’s art collections and where I have presented a spread sheet and supporting evidence to show the failings were UK wide. This needs documented and circulated to all 32 Scottish local govt organisations and also circulated to their English/Welsh counterparts.
They then need to tackle and document the (IMO) cover up PWC investigation/report into my disclosure at ACC and make sure this is reported to the Accounts Commission as a serious breach in ACC’s Corporate Governance.
They then need to notify the Police with regards the (IMO) wilful fraudulent insurance misrepresentation which is on going and relative to the theft cover. I will assist the Police and matters needs to be brought to the attention of the relative Southern force for consideration of pressing charges under the Fraud Act 2006 which is the applicable piece of legislation for fraud charges in England.
Very interesting article. Shows what takes to be a “whistleblower”
Very brave of you Scott to take on the big boys and it looks like you almost there.
Simon
Awful conduct from Aberdeen Council, let’s hope this get’s the wider exposure it deserves and justice is served.
Agree with the comments noted above by Colin, Andrew & others. I have worked in a number of large companies over my career and “whistle blowing” is taken very seriously in these organisations. It takes real courage to highlight errors or wrong doings especially when your livelihood may be at stake.
Scott, I can fully understand your frustration and anger at the way you have been treated in this matter and I hope that you can meet your objectives in “flushing out” the wrong doings. It seems to me that you have moved some way to doing so through this Aberdeen voice page. Good luck going forward…
I gave up cycling several years ago due to the lack of safe car-free lanes in Aberdeenshire. Amazingly, places such as East Kilbride attempted to address this issue in the 1960’s with a transport infrastructure which included underground roundabouts for cyclists at road junctions – to separate cars and bikes at choke points.
Given the £170m funding currently allocated to the “Corridor of Prosperity Aberdeen/Inverness improvement a million or so for a safe cycling route seems like a no brainer both from a safety and carbon footprint stance.
Bruce, you have failed to understand the argument. The request is for adequate notification of changes to the pensions age, as required by the government’s own commission in 1995 which was ignored, Women like myself have had the pension age changed twice in 7 years and then weren’t even informed for several more years, resulting in too little time to make career changes to accommodate for having to work longer. Add this to inequitous changes in Home Reponsibilites NInsurance, and the fact that women still bear the burden of child and other care in our communities, making job changes more restricted.
This is an apolitical issue, we are looking for reasonable treatment and people to hear the arguments not slag each other off and score political points.
Graduating in one field should not preclude the students from forming a grammatically correct sentence!
Suzanne says – hello Carolyn; probably something we missed this end; what is it that needs correction? Many thanks.
Unlikely you missed anything, Suzanne – I was referring to some of the quotes from some of the students.
There needs to be proper development of all commuter cycle routes into Aberdeen and a few more of our councillors following Martin Ford’s example.
We have some World class developments that massively overshadow our heritage. We have some World class leaders and business personalities who like to leave stamp their mark all over our valued natural heritage with “class” buildings. We also, apparently have the largest (greatest) dunes in the World , a very well kept secret and not even mentioned in any of the blurbs on 10 greatest, largest, highest dunes on google… The greatest ever US presidential candidate is known to visit the area, sometimes even staying more that 30 minutes.
When Joanna Blythman said “The Granite City is in thrall to the Philistines” and went on to say “The oil years have changed the ethos of this fine town……Today the city is all about materialism, bling cars, big steaks and bugger the past. Even within Scotland, Aberdeen and its surrounding area now looks like territory all but ceded, by fawning politicians and planners……..seems semi-detached from civilised European culture ……” I could go on, but I think you probably get the picture. Perhaps VisitAberdeenshire should have looked at what visitors – even corporate ones – like to do when they come to Scotland, and playing golf is way down the list. While I have no objection to you promoting golf, I do object to the promotion of TIGLS. Trump is no longer a Global Scot, and his degree from RGU has been rescinded. There was a petition,that collected way more than half a million signatures, requesting that he be banned from entering the UK, yet you are promoting a business that is owned by a bullying, racist, misogynist where his neighbours on the Menie are treated despicably. This smacks of sycophancy of the worst order, and you should be ashamed that you are promoting Scotland in this dreadful way.
A well written & extremely informative piece as ever, Suzanne – thank you. We’re just back from 2 weeks with friends who live 30-odd miles north of Houston, so of course were there when the Orlando shooting happened – the reactions on all sides were something to hear. An interesting time to be in the US with elections coming up, too. Much political discussion over dinner during our stay – the male half of our hosts & I will never agree on either guns or capital punishment, but will remain firm friends nevertheless…!
Excellent article as ever, thank you Suzanne. I doubt Ms Malone-Bates will be rushing to take you up on your public debate offer any time soon, though! I did chuckle when I saw local news coverage (on TV as opposed to in the local press, obviously) about Mr Forbes & the Milnes flying the Mexican flag on their properties.
Oh Sarah – sadly no amount of money will polish a turd!
No doubt you are an expert in this still up at 1.42 polishing away
Jeanette wrote from a different continent as it happens. However, we have had some repeat posters in the past who write the most astonishing things from the UK in the wee hours.
If this comment isn’t out of time,! Your correspondents comments about rail being an obselete method of transport is itself an increasingly obsolete mind set in view of the vast increase in demand for rail travel! I would propose that if serious studies on a reinstatement of a future rail connection to both Peterhead and Fraserburgh are going to be initiated that a route onwards from the embryonic Ellon proposal could be to reinstate the former Boddam line ,extend it past Peterhead harbour into a new through rail head station for Peterhead and then reconnect into the former track bed towards Mintlaw and further consider new construction back into the former Maud to Fraserburgh rail route ,this could provide a future passenger service to both Peterhead and Fraserburgh using a single service and could perhaps stimulate the development of Peterhead harbour into a potentially viable container port ,land access of course permitting .It is well known that recent rail construction projects are carrying a huge price burden
(I inadvertently sent my comment unfinished!)..price burden vis a vis similar projects on the continent it is however encouraging that the Waverly reinstatement was good value,so it is to be anticipated that a Buchan rail reinstatement could be carried out with like diligence,in view of the current Oil industry hiatus Aberdeenshire towns could well do with such a stimulus which would not only provide future employment but signal that Peterhead and Faserburgh will have a forward looking future.!.,notwithstanding the current by pass project.
What’s more, if we built the line all the way to Peterhead and then to Fraserburgh, instead of then expanding Westwards from Peterhead only as far as Mintlaw, we could build all the way to Huntly to make a connection, thus creating a rail triangle.
Yes, I know this post is 2 years out of date, but it is the first time I have really found anywhere where there are real supporters of reopening North Eastern railway lines.
A wonderful response to a very sad event
Her statements are outrageous. The entire world is aware of the shoddy way the neighbours were treated. She is deluded IMO. Just like her boss. xxx
She isn’t deluded. She’s paid.
From Marie Boulton: I have contacted Tree Officers to try and get you the information you asked for, there are approximately 40 pine trees which are tightly close together which are being felled. The largest 2 trees that have been removed so far have been rotten hence why branches have been falling and have damaged residents properties. There were also issues with the properties feeling damp due to the lack of light, the paths becoming slippery and when returning home in the evening the area felt slightly threatening to some of the residents particularly those living alone. Residents complained that the outside area wasn’t pleasant or safe to sit out because it felt dank, dark and the fear of falling branches meant residents were reluctant to use it . The Council did try cutting back branches, improving the lighting in the street and in houses owned by the Council over several years prior to taking the current action and only did so because residents still felt unsafe for the reasons above. The cottages are amenity housing and don’t have separate gardens so the outside communal spaces are important to them and many of the residents are older so the safety aspects become a priority.
I have confirmed with the tree officers that they have checked the trees for nests which they confirmed they did and that there was only one nest and it was empty and photographic evidence was taken to show this. The tree Officers will re plant suitable trees as quickly as possible. I am sorry I cannot comment on the lack of response because I have only had two people contact me and that was the one to keep the trees and one to have the trees felled and I have responded to them both. The letters which have been sent out and the planning of works was an operational matter carried out by officers with no elected member involvement or instruction so it would be inappropriate for me to comment.
Council Tree Officer do not take the decision lightly to fell trees and do consider very carefully the competing issues before reaching a final decision and in this case will be replanting as soon as possible.
I hope this clarifies the situation on this situation.
In response to Councillor Boulton’s comments – we have watched the destruction of these trees from our window, right from the start – and they were healthy, not rotten. This can be seen from my photographs of the log piles. If the trees have been monitored and “maintained” at all in the past – surely any “rotten” ones would have been removed and the healthy ones left in place. I am not sure how old these trees are, but they are a long way from the end of their lives – Scots Pines can live around 300 years and Douglas Firs around 600 years.
This belt of trees provides habitat for many species of birds. It is hard to believe that only one (empty) nest was found. If this was the case, then the tree officers may not have been looking thoroughly enough – blue tits’ nests, for instance, are small are often in small holes in trees (eg where an old branch has broken off), so would not be visible easily.
So, only ONE person has contacted Councillor Boulton in favour of felling the trees, and yet the destruction has gone ahead on this basis??? This does NOT clarify the situation!
Come on Suzanne, be fair. Mrs Malone – Bates and her employers were probably completely unaware that people needed luxury facilities such as running water and access to their livelihoods in order to survive when such amenities were being “accidentally” cut off.
Furthermore, she did everything possible to make their lives better, by unilaterally removing barriers and providing a landscaping service, thereby ensuring a more modern, open – plan environment and even went as far as to place huge quantities of earth, free of charge, adjacent to one of the houses, providing a more authentic rustic charm and enabling residents to offer a real Sahara type experience to visitors.
All the best Suzanne!
Suzanne says – it was good of Marie Boulton to get back so quickly – but I really don’t understand a few things about this tree cull, and hope people in the area who are interested / the author of this article can look at the info from the Council below and let us know whether or not the tree cutting fit into these guidelines or not. Any photos to show the health of the trees, how close they were to the buildings, etc. would help. But if a few people ‘felt scared’ in a home with trees near it – in Peterculter – my reaction is shame on them if these trees were destroyed because of small-minded, ill-informed paranoia of a minority – and that’s what it looks like to me as regards the resident related complaint. Council policy:
Planning and Environment > Planning > Trees and Woodlands > Council Owned Trees
Council Owned Trees
Trees are of vital importance to the world for many reasons.
Amongst other things they screen eyesores, frame views and form landscapes. Trees have significant environmental value, produce a habitat for many species and help provide us with cleaner, filtered air, shade in the summer and warmth in the winter. Advice is freely available on any aspect of maintenance of Council owned city trees, for example:
Street Trees
Park Trees
Open Space Trees
Trees in Housing Areas
Trees in Council House Gardens (This does not include former Council Housing sold under ‘Right to Buy’)
Woodland Management
This involves work such as pruning, planting or felling of trees or woodlands that are owned by Aberdeen City Council. Also, the Council has a similar level of responsibility when managing the trees it owns to any private land owner or neighbour. In the first instance contact the call centre on 0845 608 0919 for general advice. However, the City Council has guidelines for works relating to the trees it owns.
Work the Council will or will not do to Council owned trees
Work the Council will do on Council owned trees:
Remove dead, dying or dangerous trees
Remove trees within 2 metres from property (see notes relating to proximity to buildings)
Remove dangerous limbs
Remove limbs which are obscuring highway signs, traffic lights or lamp columns
Inspect and if necessary, repair trip hazard caused by Council owned trees
Inspect trees causing daylight obstruction to the South or South West of the property. Work may proceed after this inspection, an exception to this is in the case of established woodland predating the house construction
Thin groups of trees to improve form and condition of remaining trees
Work the Council will not do on Council owned trees:
Cut back branches overhanging private property. (The private property owner has the legal right to cut back these branches on a tree which is not subject to a Tree Protection Order)
‘Top’ trees or remove branches to increase daylight or decrease height in relation to property (See note regarding South or South West trees above)
Remove branches or trees affecting views or interfering with TV reception
Remove branches or trees to prevent falling leaves, honeydew from aphids or other minor debris
Remove roots from gardens
Remove roots from drains or repair damage to structures where the tree has not been clearly demonstrated to be the principal cause
Remove branches or trees to prevent potential root damage to structures
Remove branches nearly touching buildings, walls, roofs, fences etc.
Remove branches or trees to prevent access to squirrels or birds
Remove branches or trees affecting BT lines (see notes relating to BT lines)
Hello Suzanne, thank you for adding the Council’s policy. I believe the trees are within 2 metres of sheds but not actual properties. Most of the branches on that side have been removed already.
There may be some daylight obstruction but the trees pre-date the houses.
The trees were in good condition, not rotten. I would not have objected to the removal of rotten branches or trees.
I do have photos to back up these points, but can’t seem to attach them here, should I send them to you separately?
Thanks
Diane
Suzanne says – hello Diane – please do send them.
I am scunnered to hear that even more local habitat is being destroyed as if enough destruction hasn’t already taken place with the building of the AWPR. Even if they do replace the trees, it will take many years before the same diversity of species and an equivalent habitat to the current one is reached. Trees are under more threat than ever from due to Climate Change as well as the global trade in plants bringing a host of new bugs, fungi and bacteria into the UK. The council should be protecting and enhancing our local wildlife habitats not needlessly wiping them out.
I can’t understand why they have started felling now, RSPB guidelines are very clear about the possibility of birds nesting until mid/the end of August and for felling to take place after such time. I am inclined to agree with George McKay’s comment about a proper inspection not really taking place. I think it would be extremely unusual for only one bird to nest in that size of habitat (not to mention birds that are nesting nearby and using the insects on the trees for a food source for their young).
The Scots Pine tree is excellent for wildlife and supports a large variety of insects which in turn helps support the surrounding bird population. Furthermore, Scots pine seeds are a favourite food for red squirrels. I would have thought that Aberdeen City Council would be trying to increase not decrease potential red squirrel habitat in order to be in line with their partnership with the ‘Saving Scotland’s Red Squirrel Project’. It is especially surprising as red squirrels have been spotted as nearby as the Camphill Estate (see ‘squirrel sightings’ on scottishsquirrels.org.)
As these mature trees are supporting an abundance of insects, there is the possibility of bats also relying on the trees. Again, it is the wrong time of year to fell a bat roost, as at this time of year breeding females may be using them as maternity sites. Even if they aren’t using the trees for roosting, bats use tree lines as linear features which guide them on their commuting routes between their roosting location and foraging areas. Bats are a protected species and it may be worthwhile for Diane McKay to get in touch with the Bat Conservation Trust.
Why did they waste time sending out a survey when in the end they don’t go along with the majority of written replies but instead ‘mind read’ what the silent majority want? Is this just to tick a box to say they have ‘consulted’ the community? This is not democracy. It saddens me that we can’t rely on the council to play by the rules and that despite many good reasons for not destroying this habitat, especially at this time of year, they go ahead and do it anyway.
Hi Diane, Sorry this has happened and the council has been so intransigent. City councils tend to listen more to group action. From my experience of getting a wildflower meadow established, there’s a procedure which will give the best chance of yielding the results you want.
Firstly see if there is a local Councillor who holds surgeries which handle complaints like this. They are actively looking for issues to pursue and will be in a strong position of authority in the council. They will be likely to listen to you and act for you, especially if you tell them there is a majority of people on board.
They will also suggest further action, maybe joining a Community Council and also rallying a few people with .placards.
That would be a photo opportunity which would get you noticed by the newspapers who like to have a bit of drama to report, with very strong preference for a photo to illustrate it.
There’s also your local Green representatives who would be likely to want to help – maybe bring it up with the Scottish Government. Don’t give up. The silent majority needs some opposition!
As someone who Ives in Lewisvale We are all happy to have the trees removed and the area cleaned up . There are more trees getting planted I have seen the damage the branches have caused. There are a few young people who live here and who own there home.
Hello Ann,
Thank you very much for joining this conversation. As I said earlier, we are new to the area – perhaps you can shed some light on the situation and explain what damage has been done? It seems to me that there are very few branches at the Lewisvale side – most of them seem to have been removed already.
Do you feel that it’s necessary to fell the whole belt of trees?
When you say “We are ALL happy to have the trees removed” how many people does that include? – In response to the Council’s letter, only 6 people in the whole area (52 households) stated that they were in favour of felling the trees.
Also, please could you explain how removing the trees will “clean up” the area?
I don’t see how the age of residents or their home ownership status has any bearing on the issue, so I’m not sure of the point you are making – presumably the residents made the choice to purchase a property adjacent to trees.
Kind regards
Diane
I am sorry to read here that your column is going to end, Suzanne. I do hope we will be able to continue to read your take on things in a different format. I will very much miss your observations on local matters, especially with regard to The Donald!
Suzanne says – thank you for the kind words now and in the past. I’m not nearly done with Donald J Trump and local chicanery yet, but this format will come to an end. Cheerio
The malt mill (downstairs) I have been going to the live venues for 6years 2 years ago I moved to the highlands . So I am 200 miles away I still went to it I would spend 5hours on the train to get to the malt mill (downstairs) so if I can go 200 miles to get to the venue, THIS PERSON SHOULD BE ASHAMED AND NAMED why did he move there in the first place if he new there was noise duh
So pleased that the resilient residents and businesses have made such a fantastic recovery after the devastating floods. It says much for the incredible community spirit of this wonderful village. We look forwarding to holidaying again in Ballater in October in the apartment flooded next to the golf course, in October.
Any truth in the rumour that the SNP have rolled out a Getting It Right For Every Calf(GIRFEC) scheme, in which every calf will have a named cow, usually Daisy or Buttercup, assigned to keep an eye on them and share information, or would this be a really stupid thing to do, on the basis that the implementation of such a scheme would be out with the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament?
The Capitol was a working cinema well into the nineties, seeing out its final years showing art house and non-English language films. I know. because I went there regularly
Leave Kelly alone!!!!! Your rag of a publication is a disgrace. Go and hound someone else!!!! And no, I’m not related to her, just visited her property a few times and adopted 2 rabbits.
Suzanne writes: thank you Mrs Duncan for your opinions. I will be writing more about Northfield Animal Haven and resuming investigations in the near future – a little legal matter I started will conclude soon, and then I am free to investigate and I can barely wait. I think it’s wonderful that an old article of mine still commands comments. You think AV is a ‘disgrace;’ I’m equally convinced that benefit fraud, using photos of other people’s animals (without permission) claiming you need money to rescue the animals pictued, and claiming to ‘rescue all farm animals’ while part of your business is sending some to market and all that implies, etc. is rather disgraceful, but there you go. Next time you visit, have a look at the animals being raised for sale, and let us know how it is morally possible to ‘rescue’ one animal and sell others (which will likely end up in the food chain). People who were donating money based on ads which omitted this little fact were shocked when they found this out You might also ask the Cables when you visit about the father’s Facebook post in which the ‘problem’ of my articles is something he’d solve with an AK-47. Have a good day.
awww no mention of the celtic supporters flying the Palestinian flag.
Good of you to mention about the poor Palestinians though as not enough is said or done in scotland about it. Glad to see at least we have an SNP Friends of Palestine group though 🙂
Another cracking piece of writing, Suzanne – thank you. The Bates/Malone/Maserati scenario was a ‘splutter my coffee over the keyboard’ moment!
Lies regarding Northfield Animal Haven in an attempt to defame them to encourage support for other so called “Reputable” charities that your reporter supports
[ This post itself appears defamatory, but as it does not directly accuse a named individual of a specific wrong, we’ll allow it as an opinion. Aberdeen Voice strives to maintain the credibility of its content by scrutinising the factual basis behind all presented as fact. We DO slip up occasionally, and we are always appreciative of those who point out errors in order that we can amend/correct thereby maintaining the standards we are determined to uphold.
Therefore, I would be interested in knowing where we have published lies about Northfield Animal Haven as you strongly suggest in your post. Please point these out. Provide specifics. As Editor, I will personally review and amend as necessary. No writer/contributor is above the integrity of our publication and the value of reliable, verifiable facts. I trust you will assist me in finding these lies you refer to. Thank you. Fred Wilkinson – Editor. ]
Excellent article. Good links, well worth reading.
You may be interested in knowing that your couple of sentences mentioning old friends Northfield Animal Haven has resulted in an absolute blizzard of ‘hate posts’ on their fb page. It appears that you and others from AV are responsible for everything that has gone wrong with them in the past year.
My personal favourite is the blame they manage to attach to AV and undefined ‘haters’ who caused dad / ‘granda’ Eric Cable to be crushed loading horses onto a transporter because of flooding in their fields. This sad excuse for an ‘Animal Haven’ along with their more moronic supporters seem incapable of apportioning blame where it belongs. Think about what she claims. 17 terrified horses ALL with cuts? Either they stupidly tried to load a herd of 17 horses onto some sort of transporter at one time resulting in bedlam or they did multiple loads all resulting in injuries to the horses in addition to poor old Eric. Either way, complete and utter misjudgement and mismanagement on their part. Fools!
Northfield Animal Haven
May 21 •
WARNING VERY IRATE RANT COMING *********
This is Kelly just so everyone knows it is me that is saying this. This rant is directed at the evil twisted scumbags that thought it would be a good idea to try and discredit me so that I couldnt give evidence against you at court. I still stood up and gave my evidence, even after all the crap and my car being damaged on the day of the court and I have a judges ruling that this information was supplied purely for this reason, the information that was passed over was incorrect and very misleading to paint me as the baddest person and very untrustworthy. The judge saw right through you and your family. Now because of these actions it has had a major effect on the sanctuary with regards to donations, after all who would donate to a scammer or a drug dealer we were hit badly by floods and have had no way of fixing the flood damage. I arranged alternative grazing for the animals here some of which should not have even been attempted to load and moved and what happens my Dad who is 73 gets knocked over and trampled by horses that are so scared, so now I have 17 terrified horses all with cuts etc from trying be loaded and they are now stressed and very anxious. I would suggest that anyone who has shared the articles from the Aberdeen voice or anyone who has jumped on the bandwagon and spouted this crap had better remove all information as Monday morning even if I have to sell my car to do it I will be going after everyone who has done damage to this sanctuary.
Northfield Animal Haven
10 hrs •
Hey all just another update for you. Last week my mum ranted about the carry on that she has been having and while trying to move the horses to other grazing, my granda got hurt well its worse than we thought my granda who is 73 has a broken bone in his back so I hope all you haters out there are pleased with yourselves Sammy x
………………………………….
In addition it also appears that you are picking on a poor misunderstood innocent (who, remember is disabled and has a brain tumour} and that you are defying a court order in doing so!
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Eric Cable to Northfield Animal Haven
August 28 at 1:02pm •
well well I see the arsehole has once again reared her ugly head (Suzanne Kelly)Whats wrong dear have you been given orders by your cronies and you know who they are to try coming after Kell once again The day you decide to do the honourable thing and actually come up and see the animals for yourself but you won’t you lying piece of trash because then you would have to print a retraction Fuck you you horrible human being
Comments
Laura Green Thought she had gone to London. Horrible troll
Like • Reply • August 28 at 2:01pm
Northfield Animal Haven Sadly not but another article with my sanctuaries name in it so gone against a court order etc xxx
Like • Reply • August 28 at 2:17pm
Laura Green Looks like they need reporting again then. Silly silly fools xxx
Like • Reply • 1 • August 28 at 2:18pm
Northfield Animal Haven Yep phoned the police this morning xxxx
Like • Reply • 2 • August 28 at 2:19pm
Sally Ragu-Lady Drakeley Some people are just assholes and don’t deserve the time of day your conscience us clear is this idiots
Like • Reply • August 28 at 3:36pm
Eric Cable Afurther point to show her for the liar she is and mentioned that Kelly has posted pic’s of other peoples animals All the pictures on here are on OUR land and with our camera’s .This can be readily checked with GPS technology . Kelly pointed out to me that one picture was sent to her to let her see the pony that was coming down on the ferry from the islands but you go Suzanne I have told you one way to prove your and i use the word loosely veracity
Northfield Animal Haven Sadly not but another article with my sanctuaries name in it so gone against a court order etc xxx
Northfield Animal Haven Never been convicted or sent to jail for any benefit fraud. Photos of animals were sent to me and I posted, the cows that we were taking in can be verified through the council. The ponies are not fake and are here all of them including the ones that are very similar to the ones i posted but I publicly apologised for the mix up and still the crap continued.
……………………………………..
WOW! I do believe that the manner in which any professional group or organisation responds to criticism reflects the mentality of those concerned. I think we can all judge for ourselves the type of people you are dealing with.
Please keep up the good work in exposing these and others like them!
Suzanne Kelly says: It is with huge relief that the NP scheme is not being rolled out. Flawed, undemocratic, Orwellian some say – it was dealt a blow by the courts. Far from ‘getting it right for every child’ this sought to treat all children and families with a one-size-fits-all mentality starting on the assumption the parents are inferior guardians to state-appointed ones. Glad – very glad – to see this dealt such a blow. Please let’s ensure it doesn’t come back. Time to start looking at its architects and the propagandists who helped it along, not least the people behind the ‘SHANARRI’ song who happily took taxpayer money to produce the worst drivel I have ever seen used to support any government programme anywhere, ever.
hey suzanne keep up the good work exposing these dubious organisations if they were rational people running them and charities there wouldn’t be any threats or anger involved against you or the news articles making thoughts as to why there so angry
I considered putting some money into this scheme as it seems worthy and green and is offering seven percent ROI. However at that rate I would get back my investment after fourteen years, and in order to ‘double my money ‘ I would then have to be able to sell someone my shares. And that’s likely to be the tricky bit.I don’t think there’ll be many buyers around that far down the line. The project itself isn’t going to have a great lifespan.
This is a very negative article on what should be an exceptionally positive project for Aberdeen. “Concerns emerge around ACE energy share offer” what concerns? That your money may be at risk if you invest, is this not the same for any investment made? Should the author of this article not then print a warning on every investment scheme out there? The only value from this article is that prospective investors should do due diligence.
Who’s to say those investing are actually looking for a return on their investment, some may just be willing to contribute to a local environmental project, which could kick start sustainability and green living in communities up and down the Dee and Don. Do people donate to Greenpeace expecting financial return?
The useful information in this article is the last line and link to the FCA, maybe a positive piece with the same warning would have been more appropriate.
Suzanne Kelly says: sorry I’m not sorry. I can see both a potentially good green investment as well as pitfalls. City council employee Laing’s scheme was advertised in a taxpayer-funded city green newspaper, with no reference to the connection between Laing and the city; and there is the little matter of advertising to the investing public that they will ‘more than double their investment’. The idea for this story came to me from a source who is equally concerned about this double-your-money promise. Whether any authorities are looking into elements of this scheme and the promise, I am not at liberty to confirm or deny (but don’t be surprised if there are developments). Please do see the other comment though. In essence, the city is endorsing a city employee’s scheme and thereby lending ACC weight to the share sales and the remarkable doubling promise. This article serves as a reminder that people should not be swept up by the city’s greenwash or grand promises. Let’s hope it all goes smoothly and everyone ends up rich. If not, you can’t say I didn’t raise concerns. Of course, you a welcome to write your own fact-based article for AV should you wish.
The double your money “promise” is based on the lifetime of the scheme 20 plus years, and based on case studies elsewhere in the country and across Europe. This is a long term investment clearly stated on the literature. It’s not a get rich scheme, anyone who thinks or thought otherwise never read the proposal.
https://www.renewablesfirst.co.uk/hydropower/hydropower-learning-centre/what-would-the-return-on-investment-be/
http://riversproject.eu/pdf/Comparative%20study.pdf
The risks are also clearly stated on the share brochure section 12 and again in section 15, covering the cost of contingency loans, dry summer’s fluctuation in wholesale prices.
Given that 4.6billion of taxpayer’s money is used to fund green projects, are we really supposed to be repulsed that an advertisement in a local council (tax payers) funded publication was used, to gain support for a local community project.
Why should there be a reference to Laing’s employment with ACC and this project?
Suzanne says: again, since it is lost on you, the city endorsed a scheme run by one of its officers without clarifying this material fact. I am delighted you read every detail. Do you know that not everyone does read the fine print, and when someone sees a director posting ‘c’mon show me the colour of your money and I will more than double it’ without referring anyone to the fine print, there might be an issue? Perhaps you don’t think so – and BTW what is your involvement if any to the company, council or the director? – but for people like me who have worked in advertising, for the CAB in principle and quite likely from the point of view of some regulators, there are some issues here. Actually, if you factor inflation into the equation, then it’s impossible to say that you are doubling the actual value of today’s money over 20 years, isn’t it?
Let me start by stating I have no connection to the company, any director or the council. I happened across the project by chance while out photographing wildlife on the Don, as an engineer I was interested in the technology and researched the project. The statement you refer to “ C mon show me the colour of your money and I will more than double it” it taken from Sinclair’s face book page not the ACE energy page, so I take this as being targeted at his friends, not the general public. If you had bothered to read the literature on http://acenergy.org.uk/ you would have already seen that the risks of investment are not in small print, but full section (12) on page 31 same font size the rest of the print throughout the document. You would have also seen that Sinclair is not the only employee of ACC involved in the project. ACC also appear on the share document along with a number of public and private organizations.
ACC’s green times print articles on lots of projects both public and private initiatives. This is an informative publication designed to let citizens know what’s going on, given that ACC is one of the biggest, if not the biggest employer in Aberdeen, I’d be sure that plenty other employees of ACC are involved in voluntary organizations doing there bit for the environment. ACC also appear on the share document along with a number of public and private organizations.
The article you have written is very lazy attempt at investigative journalism IMO, of the 3 questions put to ACE #2 &3 are the same, IMO you engaged in trolling of an individual’s face book page and apart from the warning that investments may go up or down, has absolutely no substance to suggest any concern, given the dramatic title of the article. It is tactless gossip.
I would be correct in saying that the surname Laing is purely coincidental and Sinclair Laing is no relation to Jenny Laing (ACC ((Labour) current administration leader)
As with your previous article, Suzanne, another excellent & informative article – thank you.
Great stuff Dod, these are superb pictures. Since they started work on the AWPR near us I’ve seen too many badger casualties, as you say they’re creatures of habit and digging up their routes and homes creates havoc. They are amazing animals, it’s a tragedy that we’re more likely to see them dead than alive.
i would have thought Aberdeen – Ellon – Peterhead – Fraserburgh – Banff – Portsoy – Buckie – Elgin would be successful/profitable railway line. it could cut down on traffic as i think car owners would prefer to drive from A to B rather than use a bus, but if there was a choice of a train then i think alot of people would take a train rather than drive.
Great stuff, Suzanne – properly researched investigative journalism of a type we don’t see much of nowadays – not locally, anyway.
I look forward to reading Ms Manclarks submission to the court as I think I can see where this is leading. Nice piece of investigative journalism Suzanne my only criticism is why drip feed what you have? As a reader I can’t understand why you can’t hit this subject with the complete proven facts and put this sorry affair behind you? I’m sure then if well founded the appropriate authorities can then be notified which seems like everyone from animal welfare, DWP, and the Inland Revenue to step in and if deemed take the appropriate action if required? Even my new social media ‘friend’ Eric I’m sure would agree on this?
Suzanne writes – dear Paul, I agree about drip-feeding – but in this case Manclark’s letter to the court alone deserves a full article; and if I’d condensed everything into one piece a good deal of detail would have been cut. I also want to write a piece in this series about why it’s important for an investigative journalist to be free of any smears, and what my thoughts were as I watched while the NAH contingent made social media posts claiming they started legal action – ridiculous. I / AV have not been approached by police / lawyers on this or any issue. Now that after a year of having to stay silent while ludicrous posts and claims were made on social media, there will be one article in this series devoted to dispelling these too. Series of articles? I might turn it into a book 🙂 . AV have approached Fiona Manclark seeking her comments/response before publication; we will do the same to her and NAH before the next article. As is always the case, and has been offered to them before, anyone can submit a fact-based article to AV and we will publish it (as long as it isn’t illegal, isn’t obscene and is readable, we publish).
Paul Gall’s last sentence is clearly aimed at me. It’s unnecessary, insolent and disrespectful. Are the owners of this site happy with contributors using the comment function to have a pop like that?
Good to see everything laid out in order and clearly defined. I look forward to your next article which will hopefully reveal what Fiona Manclark’s submission to the court actually contained 🙂
Good to see everything laid out in order and clearly defined. I look forward to your next article which will hopefully reveal what Fiona Manclark’s submission to the court actually contained 🙂
What can you say about this appalling trade other than to say how shocked I was to hear items are being sold here in Aberdeen. Apart from the cruelty I would have thought it is a very bad commercial decision, far better to sell a designer line by someone as mentioned above Stella McCartney. All the time I was there last Saturday no one went into the shop, I can’t see them surviving. The last fur shop in Aberdeen was on Union Street and closed down about forty years ago because people realised then they should not wear fur. There seems to be a generation now that a few don’t care.
Best technique to end this company is to starve them of custom. This strategy is well underway with this high profile action group.
I salute them all and suggest that the staff of Escale look for a new job, a job with consumer respect.
Really looking forward to attending.David our Chairman has worked tirelessly arranging the whole event with Lydia Kemunto. Really pleased that we have over 90 guests coming.Its going to be an amazing night.Thank you to everyone who has bought a ticket and will be attending the night.
I’m not sure why we have such a problem with fur, these folks were shouting and ranting outside a fashion shop while next door the co op was selling several hundred bits of dead animal for human consumption. And were completed unmolested. My guess is that most of these protestors were typical muesli eating surbanites with the usual sentimental view of animals.
The claim that those who buy fur could buy fake fur is utter tosh, you wear fur for comfort not appearance, we might as well demand that leather shoes should be banned and replaced with plastic
Well Colin I was one of those protesting outside and can assure you I have a much more varied diet than muesli.
In reference to you asking what’s the problem with fur then I shall enlighten you. The animals bred for fur live in tiny cramped cages covered in their own faeces and urine along with that of those stored above them. They are often covered in sores and have painful deformities caused by living in such inhumane conditions. The day the door finally opens is to drag them to have anal or vaginal electrocution and having the fur removed while many are still alive. They are then tossed into a skip to die a prolonged agonising death. Most often fur is produced in countries with no animal welfare procedures. Now although the meat industry is brutal it’s regulated so apparently suffering is minimal. I don’t eat meat or wear leather because I don’t see a product I see a life and wearing a corpse just doesn’t appeal to me.
I shall also be attending the protest tomorrow regarding farm animals and the meat industry. I’m sure you realise you can’t make a point if you protest everything at once hence different protests different days.
In response to Colin’s comment; how very typical of an animal consuming person. if you actually researched what the fur trade is all about, you will be left in know doubt how different it is to our farming methods and consumption – I might add I was one of those protesters shouting outside the fashion shop selling fur, and I do not eat meat or wear leather – if you want to get all analytical let me explain; the animals murdered for fur have no other item of their body used..I.E no poor community is eating the meat! The financial benefit from fur is not for local improvements or better economical development. It is for an elite market of fashion designers and retailers who charge extortionate amounts of money…
If you wish to see the same people who you assume don’t care about our consumption of farming animals then please do pop along to see us protesting on World day for farmed animals outside M&S tomorrow. Humans have to evolve, we do not need to eat or wear animal skin/fur….there is plenty proof of this. I might add that is a great idea ban leather and wear plastic…now that is the future 😀 (slightly moderate)
In reply to the utter tosh spoken by Colin, may I just say that I was (and will continue to be) one of the protester’s shouting outside the shop whose name shall not pass my lips (i wouldn’t give them the advertising space).
As Fiona quite rightly points out, these unfortunate creatures are either bred in captivity, not knowing what it means to live a life of freedom exhibiting natural behaviour and the day of being liberated from the cages keeping them imprisoned is the day that they are removed only to be anally or vaginally electrocuted, gassed or drowned in order to preserve the quality of their fur. The carcasses are then nothing more than an unimportant by-product to be tossed away like rubbish. Being an HND animal care student I have studied animal welfare as part of my course and can tell you that there are absolutely NO animal welfare laws in countries such as China where a majority of fur is derived from.
To say that fur is worn for comfort and not appearance is so far from the point as to beggar belief. If that was the case why aren’t we all wearing it? Why isn’t it sold in every clothes shop at a price that everyone can afford instead of extortionate prices in select shops that I presume you don’t shop in, Colin?
Your guess that I am a “muesli eating suburbanite with the usual sentimental view of animals” is only partly correct. I admit to loving muesli but as a vegan I probably have a wider (and more nutritious and healthy) diet than yourself and as for the “usual sentimental view” of animals – i spent the first 18 years of my life consuming meat before I educated myself on the barbarity of the industry and 5 years ago came to the realisation that I was being hypocritical by consuming ANY animal product, so in this I find myself agreeing with him about the abandonment of leather and replacing it with manmade microfibre products instead.
Maybe if you wish to educate yourself/argue your point Colin, may I suggest that you should come along the next time we hold a demonstration?
Great stuff, Suzanne!
Another excellent article, Suzanne – keep them coming!
It was a crime to close the line in the first place!!
unfortunately so much has been spent on the oversized bypass all the finance for transport will be used up for some years to come,it is going to be 200m over budget at least.
Another good one, Suzanne!
Wow! What an amazing article! Not only have you exposed this so called ‘animal sanctuary’ and its owner, Kelly Cable, as being a complete fraud…..You have backed up everything you have printed with incontrovertible evidence!
I do not believe I have ever seen such an article posted either in the press or on line with such detailed factual evidence…..Wiki leaks aside
The only thing more worrying than the evidence you have provided is the messages of support she still manages to elicit on her own face book page……Quite amazing!
Her defence of your article is even more outstanding, as she attempts to deflect any serious issues you have made by trying to twist your comments and concentrate on ‘non issues’ while ignoring and failing to deny or reply to the many other accusations made against her.
Below I have copied her first two replies to your article which she has reposted on her own personal page…..although not on the NAH page strangely? I am sure many more comments will follow, but this will give you the gist of her MO…..
Kelly Cable shared Suzanne Kelly’s post.
13 hrs •
Anyone who reads this, hopefully will see how much crap this woman speaks, still waiting for all these people whom im supposed to be under investigation from to come and see me. It also amazes me how she can send screenshots of posts from a page that was mysteriously hacked last year and I cant even access it. I have stated a few things against her but yet she wont sue me mmmm wonder why she doesnt want to face me in court, give her her 15 mins of fame, after all that is what she wants’
Lets have a good look at this reply….. Lies, Lies more lies and deflection!
1st sentence. The authorities concerned do not make a habit of publicizing who they investigate and at the same time she manages to completely ignore and dismiss any of the other 20 or so facts detailed in the article.
2nd sentence. If screenshots were taken at the time they were posted then they are ‘on file’ regardless of attempts to delete them at a later stage by hosts or ‘mystery hackers’.
3rd sentence. Kelly may well rue this particular comment for 2 reasons. 1) She publically denied many of these allegations on face book, which Suzanne Kelly has since offered proof of and 2) Suzanne has never offered to sue her….but has debunked Kelly’s own claims that both her and Aberdeen Voice were allowed to comment about her due to a court order. Kelly Cable has also claimed police action on her behalf and yet failed to show any proof of this. The only court action taken to date was a successful prosecution of her spokesperson Fiona Manclark by Suzanne Kelly.
Next quote….
Kelly Cable Oh and anyone that knows anything about raising chickens, know they have to be under heat till they are 4 weeks old and if you zoom into the pics you will see they have pin feathers dont get them till after 4wks age, but as soon as the ad was seen i took the chickens back, all our rescue animals can be traced as when you rehome from me you have a contract and the animal will always be under the contract unlike other sanctuaries that miss kelly supports who allows their animals to be rehomed then sold to anyone’
As this is all one sentence I will break it down to its relevant points. It implies far more than one would first assume…..
Point 1) Having zoomed into these pictures I, for one, am unconvinced that these chicks were 5 weeks old at the time of photo. (As the owner had already had them a week) However, this point is again a deflection. The chicks were advertised only a week after being sold to this person. So much for the supposed ‘contract’! So much for responsible re-homing! It will be interesting to see what other animals Kelly may have ‘lost track’ of which turn up in surprising places?
Point 2) Again we see ‘deflection’ …’unlike other sanctuaries that miss Kelly supports who allows their animals to be rehomed then sold to anyone’…….This is another of Kelly Cables great skills…Naming and blaming, but without actually naming! She makes constant references to ‘haters’ and other ‘charities’ and other ‘sanctuaries’, but manages to generalize whilst at the same time casting aspersions on others who may be at fault…..
Point 3) There are a number of sanctuaries that Suzanne Kelly has openly declared support for….I cannot think of any that allow their animals to be re-homed and sold other than Kelly Cable’s….and certainly none that sell animals at the mart….again the use of deflection from her own actions without actually naming anyone who may take exception or to a direct accusation…….thereby managing to spread rumour without proof and feed the paranoia of her own supporters, who are free to make their own assumptions on her face book page without any restraint from the page admin.
It is worth pointing out that Kelly should be more open about her ‘haters’ if they are truly to blame. Perhaps she should avoid using the phrase ‘other charities’ as if she were an actual charity or for that matter ‘other sanctuaries’ as she runs a re-homing centre which, in no way is to be confused with a sanctuary which offers lifelong care for its residents.
It is only when you take a good close look at the people who continue supporting her that you begin to realise that there is an intrinsic problem that your article will not cure Suzanne.
The vocal supporters on ‘Kelly Cable’s’ own face book page are a self supporting group of sad misfits who feed each other with their sense of paranoia and fall into several categories
Category1) Those who offer their loud support and even have the nerve to criticize Suzanne Kelly for not ‘seeing for herself’ when they have never met Kelly Cable or seen the ‘Haven’ for themselves…
Leah Crysta Rumens i want to know is how the sweet fuck(excuse my language) does someone who lives in NORFOLK ENGLAND know and has contact with someone in ABERDEEN SCOTLAND……??????????
How true indeed Leah, when you live in Norwich…..have never met Kelly or been to her ‘haven’
Or the outspoken Laura Green who admits that she has never met Kelly but would love to come visit….
Category 2) Those who know not of which they talk…..These are a mixture of those who have bought or adopted animals from Kelly, who may well have been turned down for adoption by other more discerning agencies, and those who have gratefully turned over the care of their animals to her and will vigorously stand by their decision because they do not know better and it would make them look bad.
Category3) It’s not all bad news….Some praise for Kelly Cable! NAH supports in my opinion some of the most illiterate, intellectually challenged, ignorant, foul mouthed, aggressive and paranoid supporters I have ever seen on any animal welfare site. For this alone she should receive the thanks of bona fide charities at least.
Suzanne Kelly says – Dear Pete, thank you for this comment – very rich in detail indeed. Thanks too for showing readers what Kelly Cable posts / allows on her facebook page (if not the Northfield FB page). You read early articles, were neutral, and asked both Kelly and I to respond to questions. I did; she didn’t. You approached this with an open mind which, IMO, her supporters lack.
Suzanne Kelly says – Dear Pete, thank you for this comment – very rich in detail indeed. Thanks too for showing readers what Kelly Cable posts / allows on her facebook page (if not the Northfield FB page). You read early articles, were neutral, and asked both Kelly and I to respond to questions. I did; she didn’t. You approached this with an open mind which, IMO, her supporters lack.
Who is bringing the police to account for their atrocious partisan behaviour? Arguably it’s worse than Trump’s as they are supposed to uphold the law not act as a private force.
Suzanne Kelly responds – the Police were encouraged to, and agreed to, create a special policing policy for the Menie Estate – they were badgered by Trump’s people to treat the area ‘specially’. Let’s hope that no journalists will ever, ever be arrested in the UK again for the crime of investigating a story and trying to help people (in this case trying to find out when the Forbes family would get running water restored). Here are some links. PS – the police are unable (unwilling?) to say how much it costs the taxpayer every time they accompany Trump when he flies into Scotland, but I did get them to reveal a cancelled visit cost thousands in police salaries, expenses. Ridiculous and must stop. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13116768.Police__sided_with_Trump__in_golf_course_row/ and http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/film-makers-arrested-at-donald-trump-estate-accuse-grampian-police-of-cover-up-1-2612269
Love it as usual
Personally, I would only support those charity’s that follow the “REach” code;
“All members of RE.A.CH. (Reputable Animal Charities) are registered animal charities that conform to the following declaration:- They are no kill rescues who will never deliberately breed from their animals or fund their rescues from the sale of animals. Members will strive to provide the best environment for their rescues, the best veterinary care and when rehoming animals or releasing wildlife, to do this in the best interests of the animals involved”
https://www.facebook.com/REACH-1494019250836693/?fref=ts
Suzanne says – thanks John – there is a reason organisations like REACH exist – and in my opinion, what I’ve found at Northfield makes it clear why that’s the case.
Where in the university is the exhibition?
Thanks for asking – have learned it’s in MacRobert Building of Aberdeen University
Hope they keep the acoustics. The Music Hall holds many memories, from the Clash to Southside Johnny to more recently Jackie Kay at the Culture Club, and more to follow. A couple of wee points – Bowie’s first Aberdeen concerts were on May 16th 1973 and Emile was born in Sunderland and moved to Alford aged four.
Why would I pay for an overpriced ticket so I can stand in 4 degrees with diagonal rain and wait for a train/bus that may or may not show up when it’s supposed to, sit on a germ-covered seat in a train full of god-knows-who making all sorts of racket, to get somewhere within several miles of where I want to end up, to have to get to where I actually want to go by some other means, when I can just get into my car which I already own (which has heated leather seats and only my own germs) that’s sitting on my driveway, and end up exactly where I want to go?
This would be a novelty for most until they realised the above. Most people that live out of Aberdeen haven’t been confined to their homes up until this point just waiting for a railway to be built. We manage just fine without this. That’s why they are spending hundreds of millions on a ROAD BASED SOLUTION. That is where the money should, and has gone…because we ALREADY have cars, buses, and HGVs.
I find it scandalous that in this day and age of environmental consciousness they are actually proposing to replace a “linear nature reserve” and a popular cycling route with particulate-belching diesel trains!
Just say no people.
You only need to look at the “dire performance figures” (According to last month’s The Guardian article about its frequent breakdowns and delays) of the Borders Railway to see that this would be a brief novelty that would be quickly passed up for the road-based solution, on which hundreds of millions has already been spent, on which we can drive our cars, which we already own and pay for, to exactly where we are going, once we realise that spending 20 minutes in the cold. late for work, waiting for a train that probably broke down (Borders Railway, The Guardian, September 2016), is a much worse idea.
Hello Ms. Kelly- I just want to tell you how right you are about Trump and his ridiculous spokesperson. I live in the U.S. and have researched Trump. I am embarrassed that he even got on the ballot. Trump is so full of hate that he incites violence at his own rallies. His followers make death threats to his opponents and they assault protesters. He makes terrible remarks about Jews, Muslims, Latinos, Afro-Americans, women, girls, the poor, the deaf, the physically and mentally disabled, the overweight, elders, the less educated, liberals- everyone is fair game. Donald Trump pitches fear and feeds off attention. He is a: 1.Narcissist 2. Misogynist 3. Xenophobe 4. Pathological liar. 5. Power glutton 6. Money Glutton 7. Fraud 8. Racist. He knows nothing about the military, environment, world history, psychosocial issues, theology, etc. God help us if somehow he is elected and has the nuclear codes. If he wins, I head for Mexico……. …. A few years ago I watched a great film about the golf resort he built in your country. I am so sorry… He is an absolute horror of a human being. Keep him out. Good luck. Marianne Hall Kennedy, Spanaway, WA USA
Suzanne responds: Dear Ms Kennedy – thank you for your kind words and support; they come just as I am about to confront one of the Trump supporters who wrote a threatening message to me some time ago to see if they changed their mind (I doubt it). You may already know, but the next film from Anthony Baxter regarding Trump at the Menie Estate is just about to be streamed live over Facebook tomorrow at 8pm Eaastern Standard Time. All the best.
If this film was not true would Trump go to such lengths to stop it being shown Leslie
Hy cbo
In my opinion this woman is a traitor to the Scottish people. Her family should be disgusted in her ethics. I think she should be in prison today.she is a disgrace to the people of Scotland. [post slightly altered to comply with AV policy]
Excellent stuff – we need to get this looked into, before further damage is done.
Yet another chain (albeit this time a relatively small one) opens here while independent businesses continue to go under.
Here’s hoping the BBC shows this one too. Looking forward to you keeping us informed on this topic, Suzanne, as always.
This council needs to be held Accountable for what its doing to this city . striping out its history and creating eye sores around the historic center. We has the people of Aberdeen have had enough and now stand up for our history and city. no more of this
This Council is investing over £1.5m in Provost Skene’s House so rather than detracting from it we are investing in it. There is a paper going to the next Education Committee Meeting which will give you a bit of direction as to what we are proposing to do with the inside of the house. We are not going to dumb down the house and showcase Joey Harper we are going to show Aberdeen’s rich citizen of talent dating back to the 14th century. You may not like the Muse development but please do not insult the intellegence of the people by saying this Council is not investing heavily in Provost Skene’s House because we certainly are. We intend to showcase Aberdeen’s rich history which will enhance Provost Skene’s House rather than detract from it.
This Council is investing over £1.5m in Provost Skene’s House so rather than detracting from it we are investing in it. There is a paper going to the next Education Committee Meeting which will give you a bit of direction as to what we are proposing to do with the inside of the house. We are not going to dumb down the house and showcase Joey Harper we are going to show Aberdeen’s rich citizen of talent dating back to the 14th century. You may not like the Muse development but please do not insult the intellegence of the people by saying this Council is not investing heavily in Provost Skene’s House because we certainly are. We intend to showcase Aberdeen’s rich history which will enhance Provost Skene’s House rather than detract from it.
Outstanding article. Look at the maritime museum, yes it now has a glass frontage and the extension has been modernised but the original building is still there and preserved. This has to stop before it’s too late.
Good to see Jon Symons making a contribution on AV. Hey Jon maybe some life in the old dog after next years local government elections? Enjoyable and informative read….
Willie Young:- “You may not like the Muse development but please do not insult the intellegence of the people by saying this Council is not investing heavily in Provost Skene’s House because we certainly are.”
Firstly the article above never mentioned Council investment in PSH but let’s not worry about facts when point scoring, eh William?
This is the same PSH the Council stated in the original Ryden prospectus they might even sell so let’s not get too righteous and protective now. It’s also the same PSH Muse once suggested might make a good entrance sand reception area for the Marriott short stay hotel.
It’s
The adverse Press and looming election date may have persuaded you to invest in PSH – at long last -and that’s a good thing.
Just try to get it right this time.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the work currently being done under PSH “accidentally” brought it crashing down (cheaper than hiring a demolition squad and you can remain blameless, eh Wullie?) and a another glass and steel monstrosity built in its’ place. This council should remember who put them into power and who has the opportunity to replace them.
Suzanne Kelly says: A spokesperson for Muse sent this response; I had requested to go onto site to take photos, but it is apparently too busy for this to be safe. The response:
“From day one in the process, the Muse team were clear on the historical importance of Provost Skene’s House and the significance it has to those living and working in Aberdeen.
“The significant investment being made by the development partners to transform Provost Skene’s House once again into a facility to be enjoyed by everyone in the city, is a testament to the importance the building will have in the Marischal Square development.
“We believe the new civic space around the building will give Provost Skene’s House a level of prominence it has not had for some time. The works involved are in the supply of utilities to prepare the building for this new lease of life and there is absolutely no issue or danger involved with the foundations of the building from this development phase or any of the earlier construction activities around Marischal Square.”
i guess the only reference to last nights fireworks display can be described as “damp squib”
pity the council can’t/won’t reschedule due to costs etc 🙁
Let’s be quite honest here, neither the Council or Muae were going to ever say anything different.
May all the Gods and Goddesses bless the Forbes family.
May they all serve Trump as they see fit.
I’m disgusted with Sarah Malone too….a complete abuse of power. Never a truer saying then ‘money talks’ and I’m sure her living quarters and amenities have increased dramatically since accepting her ‘powerful’ post! I’m sure Ms Malone Bates and her husband are now enjoying the benefits of being a ‘power’ couple in Aberdeen.
HAhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahaha!!!!
What a waste of time for you all, all those years attempting to talk President Trump and he eases into the white house with the same easy manner he got his gold course at menie built, you losers must be gutted.
That should read talk President Trump down, please edit for me.
I was crying with laughter typing, excuse my mistake.
Your article misses the “allegedly” when discussing the woman without water for 5 years, careful you don’t get sued. We all know it’s allegedly not true.
Suzanne Kelly says-hi Bill; in keeping with time-honoured tradition your attempts at vitriolic comment are all off base. Michael Forbes did repair the broken water pipe just recently; he was sent a 3 page rambling letter by reply. The Forbes had unreliable water, no water or sludge for 5 years; like the repair this is verified.
Trump saw his name and tens of millions of dollars wiped off Middle East projects and suffered other losses when the ban petition was live. The loser is the POTUS elect and no one else.
Fighting against racism, sexism and nationalism wherever it comes from is worthwhile however amused you are by it. By the way we still have a racketeering and a rape charge pending on Mr Trump- we shall see what comes out of these. But as ever nice to have you back Bill; lost track of how many times you quit reading AV for good. Have a nice day.
Note to Suzanne and other moderators. Please be reminded that Bill Stephens is actually George Smith – who is banned. Much as I know some of you like to have your bit of fun with him, he is banned for good reasons which have been explained here. I am allowing recent comments to stand, but will remove all further posts by George/Bill, and any responses which are left without context as a result of their removal.
He restored the water himself!!!!! lol good one. 🙂
I’m sorry. As an American I am ashamed.
We cannot despair. For despair leads to the graveyard of buried hopes.
As an American of Welsh and Scottish descent, my heartfelt thanks go to the Forbes and their family of supporters.
Boohoo!! hahaha
IMO You have yourself to blame for your life issues, perhaps stopping looking down your nose at people would be a first step, you’re no better than anyone else, your opinions are yours, if someone has a different opinion it doesn’t mean they’re wrong and to be derided.
You have no respect for others who don’t agree with you.
You get in life what you sow.
Suzanne Kelly says: thank you for this string of platitudes. Do I look my nose down on racists? Absolutely. When you talk about opinions did you mean anything specifically? Evolutionary theory is scientific fact; creationism is an opinion with no factual basis. If you mean my opinions about racism and sexism – I absolutely deride anyone whose ‘opinions’ are that either are ok – and I will never acquiesce, compromise on these fundamentals. Plenty of people disagree with me – most do so on specific points not generalisations, and there is always room in an open mind to entertain logical counterpoint: if you have any logical counterpoint, please say what you mean.
Hello again George Smith/Bill Stephens. Congrats on creating your third user identity, equally as objectionable and obnoxious as the previous two… Jeez your on a roll – how do you manage?
Please do not bother to respond to Suzanne’s request for you to elaborate on what you have said. We know what you are about …. all the more reason not to want you about.
I’m so sorry to read you’re having a difficult time at the moment, Suzanne, & I send you my best wishes for things to be resolved quickly; I’m also sorry that you have received unsympathetic (to put it mildly) comments about this from one of your readers. Kind regards, Carolyn.
If an animal has had to be PTS then surely it would have had done by a vet. I am wondering if SSPCA would investigate this at all.
Not necessarily unless it can be proven that the animal’s welfare had deliberately been put at risk. All they can do is serve a notice of warning to improve matters within a certain amount of time and then take animals into custody if this does not happen. As long as animals are being fed/watered, looked after appropriately with proper shelter and are kept free from avoidable pain, injury, suffering and disease then their hands are tied. They will only take animals if their welfare is in immediate danger but if there are 170 animals finding places for them within the Drumoak rescue centre would be nigh on impossible unless other REPUTABLE sanctuaries (of which there are a few in Aberdeenshire/Angus/Morayshire) can step in to provide assistance (although they all have the welfare of their own animals to put first) but seeing how these have all been shunned by the Cables in the past I can see no reason to help them apart from the fact that none of us wish to see an innocent animal suffer.
You’d have to be Donald Trump to think this was a remotely acceptable or proper way of behaving – our local paper accepting a massive freebie in the form of rent-free accommodation from the very organisation our newspapers are supposed to keep under scrutiny.
Without doubt the Cable family have overstepped the mark this time. Personally, I have no doubt that this incident was originally nothing more than a case of unfortunate circumstances. Let’s face it, incidents with unsecured food stores and Shetland Ponies are hardly unknown.
However on this occasion, their talent for sensationalising events in order to maximise sympathy for themselves, possibly in the hope of securing some donations from their savant followers has hopefully backfired.
It would appear that in order to avoid any possible blame being laid at their door for yet another animal death at their so called ‘haven’, they have concocted what they consider to be a suitable cover story blaming ‘haters’, mysterious ‘activists’ and even alluding that AV’s Suzanne Kelly is to blame and actually responsible for this supposed attack on their ‘haven’ is to say the least disgusting and I hope that this is taken seriously by the appropriate authorities and investigated by the Police, the Scottish SPCA and the governments appointed animal welfare agency in Inverurie.
The scary thing is that the Cable family are unable to accept being wrong in any shape or form. Their default response to anybody questioning the things they do is either denial or deflection. If that does not work, then Step 2 is to intimate that the person commenting is a ‘hater’ or a ‘Vegan’ or cast aspersions on their character in the hope that they back off. Step 3 is to suggest that police or solicitors are going to be involved in the belief that most people will not pursue the matter in case they end up in an expensive court case. Step 4 has now been auctioned. Stick their heads in the sand and shut down communications with the outside world until their critics get bored and go away.
I don’t know about you, but I do not feel the need to lose interest in this particular ‘can of maggots’.
These people need to be exposed and prosecuted!
Suzanne says – thank you for this comment Peter. Readers should know that quite a while back Peter read one of my articles on NAH, and sent in questions for me and for Kelly Cable. I answered him with facts; and pretty much since that time, Kelly Cable and NAH supporters have subjected Peter to a considerable amount of abuse for his trouble.
Hello Suzanne, I really enjoy reading your writing. I’m sure things will improve for you. Keep up the great work. Best Wishes, Alex
Suzanne says – thanks for the kind words
Well said, Alex – I find the lack of council business coverage in our local press abysmal.
Well done, Suzanne – another excellent article. The lack of unbiased coverage, or even just a mention of some things, of local goings-on in our local media is appalling – the local TV news (on both BBC & STV) does a better job than Aberdeen Journals, but even that’s not saying much.
Suzanne says – thank you Carolyn – the only positive thing I can say about how AJL historically operates is that if not for them, I’d likely never felt the need to make my attempts to do the reporting I thought AJL should have done.
Perhaps Scotland has become the canary bird for the United States?
I hope you keep us all updated as to any further actions either NAH make, or you personally have to make? I feel that these are potentially dangerous people. They do not appear to have any boundaries! My concerns are not only limited to the animals in their care, but to the deluded people who they have sucked into their supporters group. It seems to me that the Cable’s take advantage of people, some of whom may have special needs. These people may possibly be in need of support as well.
Suzanne says – thank you Peter; and you are not the first person to suggest there is danger (after all, there are now several documented threats and two police reports filed by me about them). As for a supporter’s group, one of the people cheated out of thousands suggested that a meeting could be called to get everyone with a grievance together – this may yet happen)
As predicted in my previous post. Please see above. Step 2 was used first, intimating the ‘enemy’ is simply a fool. I see that steps 3 and 4 have been actioned by Kelly Cable at Northfield Animal Haven.
I have no idea where the references regarding another daughter is concerned. Perhaps one of her supporters who follow this page would care to clarify? I can not speak on behalf of AV but I am confident your comments WILL be published.
I have no idea of the threats made to her last year other than her stating that threats had been made. Again I would like to see a direct quote of these threats.
Finally Kelly has published that she would rather put her animals to sleep than let other sanctuaries take them.
She is right about one thing. The animals in her care are her responsibility, and for any of them to die in such dubious circumstances as has been described and for that not to be reported to the police, should be considered as an act of gross negligence at the very least.
Her comments also suggest that she looks forward to her day in court facing Suzanne Kelly ‘and I look foward to meeting this woman in court to show her as the liar she is, she started this campaign 22 months ago, i was threatened and still get threats daily because of this woman and her story telling.’
I am not very knowledgeable about these things, but perhaps there is someone reading this who knows how to set up a fund to finance Suzanne or AV to make this a reality?
These people need to be publicly shown as the frauds that they are so that good people are not taken advantage of any more!
Kelly Cable
11 hrs · New Pitsligo ·
Hi everyone sorry havent been on, i am trying to sort out all the carry on but its rather difficult. I have seen that the story has grown arms and legs and I also seem to have another daughter, im pretty sure I only have one. No apologies will be coming from me or Northfield Animal Haven and I look foward to meeting this woman in court to show her as the liar she is, she started this campaign 22 months ago, i was threatened and still get threats daily because of this woman and her story telling. I see from a few comments the threats i was given last year are now in print, so these have all been copied too. Lastly `Northfield Animal Haven has not closed and will not close, no other sanctuaries or charities will have to look after our animals, they are my responsibilty. Thanks all xxx
Thank you Sammy McQueen for clarifying the picture. It was not AV or Suzanne Kelly who made any comment regarding you having another daughter. It was simply a genuine comment from the general public that you have used to try and mock the reporter…..nothing more than a case of wrong identity by the poster which you and your family have pounced on to try and deflect and belittle the article.
Victor Beattie
Gillian Louise Tosh – I read a lot about genuine animal charities and never hear about the kind of dishonesty perpetuated by your mother and her organisation.
Fortunately I have the screenshot available on my page that you so kindly shared 🙂
Just seen some photographs of dogs, rabbits, monkeys, and turkeys – experimented upon for the manufacture of cigarettes. Shocking. If any of the fur protestors smoke, and I do not know if they do or not, then they should not cast stones.
Suzanne says: Interesting point. However, in many countries including the UK tobacco/smoke is not tested on animals – and brands like American Spirit have no testing at all https://peoplefortheethicaltreatmentofanimals.wordpress.com/tag/american-spirit/ . However a person feels about the [IMO inexcusable, violent, horrific] world of animal testing, the life of any animal killed for fur is sacrified only for human vanity. With thousands of fabrics and fake fur, the idea anyone needs to do what is done to fur-bearing animals for human ornamentation has no place in the 21st century whatsoever.
Well done Suzanne!
Superb !
It’s scary how close this likely is to the truth of it all. The man is a boor and his wife a statue. How in the hell are we going to live with their crap for four years? No excuse for what he’s been allowed to get away with in Scotland, either. Boors and whores seem to now be in charge of the world.
Brilliant as usual Suzanne. Will miss you although I never see you. x
Very interesting read. I am planning a few FIR’s myself over the coming months for a local business blog, specifically about matter that the council are involved in and technology. I would maybe like to collaborate with Suzanne on something.
Would love to follow up.
Great news. Look forward to brochure.
Great news. Look forward to receiving brochure
Increasing council taxes for specific things like adult social care and education is backdoor privatisation no matter how you spin it.
I Support BDS, and i hope plenty others do too. It would be interesting to see what happens when donald trump is president of USA and what he will do about the israel/palestinian troubles. If donald supports israeli illegal settlements then i would hope alot of golfers would boycott trump golf courses.
If its ok for the UK government and press to criticise Russia and Putin for its handling of of helping rid Syria of terrorists then there should be no law preventing us people campaigning for human rights abuses to stop in Palestine. If the UK government can sanction Russia then us the people can sanction Israel.
I do wonder what responsibility and authority, Aberdeen city council hold. Perhaps someone can address this thought. Does the council possess the legal authority to close this and other retail outlets in the selling of these products which are subject to this evil method of harvesting their skins?
Unfortunately not G Rennie, what is being pushed is banning of fur farms around the world, Japan, Croatia in last few weeks! and I believe Holland banned fur farming but has a time frame of closer. Slowly change are happening. It is government that is able to address importation into this country of fur. Five different government bodies control this area. We have had contact with Scottish Parliament however due to Brexit they have said until this has been addressed revising the current Fur Farming Law – which needs to go through Westminster – will not be taken on. Meanwhile fashion outlets can source and buy fur from some of the worst countries in the world that still exist.
My own experience of “pro – Palestinian” organisations is that the transparently one – sided and often viciously anti – Israeli propaganda they tend to produce is at odds with reality, to such an extent, that it is difficult to imagine how anyone could explain their position on the basis of a mere misinterpretation of history, ignorance, or over – enthusiastic support for Palestinian representation alone.
Not having sufficient time to trawl through the SPSC website, I wonder if any of their spokespersons might take the time to advise me if they ever feel the need to criticise the many terrorist groups and governments dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel and the slaughter of it’s Jewish inhabitants, uses children as human shields to protect them from retaliation, routinely attacks the civilian population of Israel and sponsors children to carry out suicide bombings on their behalf?
Well done to Austen and team. I look forward to joining you soon!
G. Rennie makes a very good point. Fur farms are now illegal in the UK yet we still allow the import of fur from foreign factory fur farms. We need some new international legislation along the lines of CITES so that as well as banning the trade in endangered species we can ban the import of animal products produced under conditions which would not be allowed in our own country.
Nice to hear this story again – my gran was living at no.27 as an evacuee on the night the spies arrived. Cheers
Excellent – well done APA. Thanks Duncan/Fred
Pretty much seems to contradict what Mike Wilson, local businessman, said recently in the local newspaper!
And ALL the comments were from people with a WHOLESOME vested interest in making its sound, be or want to be a success. So what is the REAL impact – very little according to many traders.
As a former resident of Aberdeen and Crathes, who walked the whole Deeside line in 1976, and has covered parts of the Formartine and Buchan Way despite shrill complaints from my better half; I hope my contribution to this debate will be accepted, despite my present domicile in England.
The Deeside line was formerly very busy to Peterculter, markedly less busy to Banchory; and less busy again after that. I remember Alexander’s running double decker buses up to Ballater through summer; but holidaymakers and day trippers are not enough traffic to sustain a service all year round. Prospects for freight on Deeside would surely be very poor.
The line through Ellon was notorious as a long way to get to Aberdeen – much longer than the equivalent roads. But again, commuters could benefit – especially if Schoolhill station was reopened.
Schoolhill could provide somewhere to store trains between services if required. But it could make sense to reopen both lines together, offering the option of through journeys; and keeping the dwell time in Aberdeen station to a minimum.
On another topic, how about a station at Nigg for office workers on the Altens estate? – or am I overstating the present importance of oil?
how did you manage to make that game sound half decent ? geez that was some pretty grim stuff , hayes and rooney never turned up ( think thats the worst i’ve seen them play ) anyway 3 points and we’ll take them added bonus jumpin oer the huns.
Not sure about this. Does making the event for charity excuse the fact that it is being held in the hotel where the owner was taken off the VisitScotland site for using the ‘poof’ word? And that another of the chefs works in Trumps hotel in the Menie estate? Is the public seriously expected to endorse this event?
Can anyone help me contact Michael Forbes? I’d love to send him something in support.
Suzanne Says: Thank you for your enquiry; you can write to Michael, Sheila and Molly at: Mill of Menie, Balmedie, Aberdeen AB23 8YE. I am sure they will be pleased to hear from you, even if they can’t answer all their letters.
“Three of Scotland’s finest chefs” – Nick Nairn, certainly, but given you had to state where the other two work I doubt their inclusion in the description, & I daresay the likes of Tom Kitchin, Martin Wishart & many more might agree. Have been a big fan of Aberdeen Voice since I discovered this site, but I think it has lost its edge since the superb Suzanne Kelly departed. Not much contentious content since she went, & far too many articles by local PR companies rather than independent-thinking authors.
Agree with Dorothy Bothwell’s comments above, & it’s odd to read about you endorsing, not to mention advertising, such an event given the site’s past content.
The nature and colour of our content is at the mercy of contributors Carolyn …. as it has always been. We aim to publish all that is contributed provided it does not breach our editorial criteria … as we always have. This does not equate to endorsement of content. We have from the outset endeavoured to be an impartial outlet … which has made us accessible to contributors such as Suzanne Kelly who might not find the freedom elsewhere to have their work published as close to it’s original form as possible – free from over editing/interference.
This remains the case, and we are always open to new writers/contributors. If we ever appear too much of one thing, it will almost certainly be because there is not enough of another. It’s a bit like what they say about voting … “if you don’t vote, you cant complain about the result.”
However, that’s what these comments boxes are all about…. and I thank you for at least making the effort to contribute your views. All the best – Editor.
Wishing you every success with your appeal . You do a wonderful job and deserve all the support you can get . Your members get so much out of being able to be part of your group .
How sad! I hope the decision can be reversed and the Strathcona put to good use. It deserves it.
I spent several happy years in my first job there in the 1960s. I enjoyed the interesting company: Scots of many ilks, Sassenachs such as myself and visiting research workers from all over the world. I learned the basics of several languages there. We had enjoyable trips into the hills climbing and skiing. Some lunch times one could ski just outside the building. Sadly most of my colleagues from then rest in peace.
I,m on my way, on my camel!
StratoCaster!!
(errrr …. cheers for the spellcheck but … maybe checking the date on the article will afford some clarity 😉 )
I’m a fan of Martin Ford, & Just wish I was in the Shre as opposed to the City when it comes to next month’s elections!
Eh? ” return for an of ‘Go Buddy Go’ ., And . “ware capes ” ?.
Oops …. michty, the edittor dizna kane fit heez deein. Cheers Biz, sorted noo 😉
Great to hear about this initiative and to see some of the art works on TV.
Please help us to have a piece of Street Art with an environmental theme in Calderbank near Airdrie in North Lanarkshire as a big meeting of conservation and heritage interests is to be held there on Wednesday 31 May 2017. Hope to hear from you about this.
Interesting!
hi i am looking for the women who helps out with young people taken them out and about aberdeen in there wheel chair she suffered a stroke herself recently i think she takes them on a friday would like to get in touch with her thks 078082634527
A bit of political mischief making here. Fact is most abuse takes place within families. You will always have examples of professionals who fail in their duties but my concerns are just WHO are you trying to protect here?
I met Ms Slater many years ago when I volunteered as an Adult Education tutor. I wish her all the best in her bid to become a councillor, I think she will be a great champion for her community.
I am an American with the Tullos name and was planing a trip to your country in October 2017 . Because of my name of course was interested in Aberdeen. But was saddened with what I’m reading about Tullos Hill. Has it gotten any better?
This is great news, just another indication that the construction industry is bouncing back. This will be great for students from both Universities and will also be good, as you mention, for local businesses in the area that will benefit from the influx of students to the area.
i heard them mostly they sang flop songs
So is Donside Hydro still promising to double the m9ney of investors? Quite a pledge
Oh my goodness, Happy Trails & the Diamond Street One Up – those were indeed the days!
One of the worst aspects is the current sub-contracting of road-going tipper work to bring boulders to the site, presumably to act as foundations for the concrete work.
Around half a dozen tippers belonging to Yuill and Dodds are currently employed on the contract, their also having been employed on the AWPR.
This was the company whose vehicles brazenly crashed the picket lines during the miners’ strike in 1984-85 to transport coal from Scottish pits.
It sickens me to see Thatcher’s scabs employed on major civil engineering contracts.
Interesting and well-argued!
Another excellent article by Mr Baird and a much needed counterpoint to all the hype surrounding this development. Well done Mr B and AV
Hi good afternoon I would like more information on this package please for myself and my partner. we would be thinking of coming up on the 30th from Glasgow and returning on the 2nd January.
Thanks
Please see links provided in the article.
Great charity run by lovely people …for the people….
Decades ago, my family operated salmon netting at many places around the Scottish coast, east and west, including up to the 1930s at Gardenstown. We always carried a gun in the salmon cobles, and seals found around the nets were shot. There was no difficulty in shooting from a boat on the water. The seals damaged the nets trying to get at the salmon, and in doing so let the salmon escape. The numbers that were shot ( 1 or 2 per week ) reflected the numbers of seal population at that time. I.E. the population was controlled, but not eradicated. The shot seals were left in the water, and no-one raised any complaint, as they would have realised if they had thought about it, that seals were a vermin, and the salmon netting industry was a substantial employer of local labour. A hard job, like all the other branches of the fishing industry.
And if you really want to be squeamish, I have a cutting from the Banffshire newspaper, with an item entered by my grandfather 90 years ago, warning the locals not to pick up any salmon they found on the beach, as these were ones he had laced with strychnine. But then locals were locals in those days, and not do-gooder incomers.
Personally I don’t know why we don’t eat seal-meat, as the Inuit do. I have eaten whale.
Hiya Linda, thank you so much for your very kind words, it means alot, so again thank you, we have alot coming up as next year, we celebrate our 10th anniversary ?❤️
Why does everything have to get faster, internet transport, information etc?
Hi how can I get cbo
Where can I get this cannabis oil please in pain
You don’t know how good it is until you are in pain needing some now please
Hello, happy to say yhat in the UK your GP CAN now prescribe CBD oil; whether or not they will seems hit and miss. Make an appointment to discuss with them and in your case tell them it definitely helps you. All the best
At Donna Nook on the English East coast the seal beach is fenced off. Public can view them quite close but not interfere and the seals look quite undisturbed.
A lot of serious subjects are discussed here but selfies are surely not the worst. The general public showing an interest is surely a positive thing if common sense prevails.
You lot. Need your heed seen to as seals need to be slaughtered properly and all as same as seagulls but you bunch of whack jobs not got a clue and it is all protect this and that
Well come time you lot will be moaning as watch and see as happens in peterhead but you don’t give a toss as is as they swoop down and prey on old fowks but hai ho is was your grandparents then u would complain wouldn’t you
Give me a shot gun and I will
Show you what to do
Best gig I’ve been to in ages, they were ace! And a real treat to see them in such a small venue.
Very late to see this post, but I think it is a madness that we have just one railway in the North East, and has such irregular services despite its importance! Scotrail and the Scottish Government seemingly don’t care about anywhere North of Dundee when it comes to transport. A line to Ellon would be beneficial, as would an extension right up to Fraserburgh, via Peterhead. As a massive transport enthusiast and local I have often looked into the rebuilding of lines in the area, and based on settlement size alone there would be enough passengers to keep lines running not only to Ellon, and up to Fraserburgh, but also on the Deeside line, at the very least to Banchory, certainly as far as Aboyne, and even to Ballater like it used to run is feasible seeing as the whole track section is largely intact thanks to the Deeside Railway, and tourism alone as well as the commute to town thanks to the oil industry would let the railway thrive. Even 4 services a day such as on the Kyle line would work out. Same goes for a line along the Moray and North Aberdeenshire costs between Elgin and Fraserburgh. Plenty of tourism and an abundance of population. There is sufficient demand in the area. The Borders Railway is a massive success, and Aberdeenshire has more population to be served and much more tourism. Anyone suggesting this wouldn’t work is either Tory to the core or completely deluded. At the very worst a tunnel section would have to be made on the Deeside line out of Aberdeen for a certain section, same potentially going for some other routes.
With research I have drawn up I know that all these lines are sufficient. In Aberdeen new stations could and SHOULD be opened at Nigg Bay (especially now the new harbour is being built – yeah, we have money for that yet not new lines, funny that isn’t it?), Cove Bay and Newtonhill on the stretch to Laurencekirk, and potentially new stations opened at Kittybrewster, or Berryden, along the current line. It is sad that Dundee’s suburbs themselves have an abundance of stations, yet already nothing compared to Edinburgh and Glasgow. Just one station for Scotland’s third city and oil capital is nothing. Just one line going through it is nothing.
Deeside Line, if it reopened, would surely stop at these settlements for a bare minimum:
Aberdeen
Peterculter – Population, quick commute into town
Banchory – Population, essential shopping area for those in Upper Deeside
Aboyne – Population, lots of commuters
Ballater – Tourism and decently sized population.
Ellon branch, as discussed, although with extension to Fraserburgh via Peterhead (with, admittedly, a slight deviation to the route proposed, but my ‘research’ suggests is perfectly feasible):
Dyce
Balmedie/Newmachar (depending on route used)
Ellon
Cruden Bay – Tourism, decent population and would serve large area
Peterhead – Large population
St Fergus – Lots of commuters, serves large rural area also
Fraserburgh – Large population
Also to add that even despite the decline in the oil industry there are still, and will still be many commuters still needing to travel in, along with local residents and tourists. Had these lines be reopened 40,30,20, even 10 years ago they would have been doubly profitable. I find it pathetic that we can open stations on rural lines to Kyle and Mallaig that serve hunting lodges for the rich few, but can’t open stations in large population centres to serve many people.
I don’t think the SNP are keeping stations on Kyle and Mallaig lines open for hunting lodges given the policy on land reform.
However the point stands that the lack of rail links in the NE is ridiculous. Especially when the other option (road improvement) will not happen either.
Your proposal for a line going through Cruden Bay, PHD,St Fergus and FR makes perfect sense. The only real alteration might be trying to connect Mintlaw(although how practical it is I am not sure)
What won’t fly is an Ellon P&R train for Broch/Phd etc. It has to include Buchan as well as Formartine.
Congratulations on passing your exams, Suzanne – I do miss your offerings on this site! Good luck with your future endeavours in the journalistic world.
Thank you Carolyn – I intend to spend more time on the Voice starting now. Hope all well with you – thanks for reading!
All is indeed well, thank you, Suzanne. Delighted we’ll be reading more of your astute observations & pithy comments!
First, to commenter Bill Stephens: You either didn’t see “You’ve Been Trumped” or you approve of his actions. The neighbors’ houses, barns etc., mostly Mike and Molly Forbes’s houses, were shown for all the world to see. The current president of my country, Trump, who was so ready to insult and the homeowners, has not bothered to check the back areas of his own “pristine” luxury golf course, and is uncaring about dumping their own waste products. Either you just woke up and know virtually nothing about what Trump has done to not only the residents but to the last natural ecologically pure coastal area of Scotland or you are of the same bullying mindset of this bIllionaire narcissistic land-grabber.
Hello, am pleased to see this slightly old piece still gets attention; am even more pleased that Tara has ‘nutshelled’ it so well. Thank you – Suzanne
bitter article by a bitter journalist with a massive chip on her shoulder because the golf course was built and proved to be an excellent facility and a boost to the area.
I have read the Facebook spat unfold day by day. The author has been selective in her description for sure. Her opening spat made a veiled threat to include the restaurant on an app which boycotts Donald Trump’s business over a sign they posted years ago before work on the course commenced and their refusal to conform to her demands. Anyone reading the article can clearly see an attempt to undermine a local business enjoyed by many in the area, which pays taxes, employs local staff and promotes local produce. This is not some faceless corporation being attacked, it is someone’s livelihood and business, and someone who support the lives of many others in the area who has been slandered on the whim of a self proclaimed journalist and activist. I would hope that the local anti-trump action groups take the stance to denounce the actions of this journalist and that the public show their support by spending some money in the restaurant.
Suzanne Kelly says: Here is what I’ve written to The Cock and Bull Balmedie; until they can explain their exaggerations, it’s my last word for now:
Seeing as you opened a direct dialogue with me, I want your public apology. Either that, or evidence for your false claims against me, believed/seen by over 100 people. You are in defamation territory here imo.
1. you wrote: ‘a journalist and anti-Trump activist was looking to include us in a “blacklist” to encourage customers to boycott the Cock and Bull (I never wrote any such thing)’ ‘I was contacted by said journalist and asked to publicly renounce any support for Donald Trump (I asked for your current position; I did not ask you to publicly do anything but answer the yes or no question) I may have (the man, not the course) in order for us to be excluded from the boycott list (I never said anything about your having to make any public statement to be excluded from ‘the boycott list’ – this is a huge slur),’. and ‘Ours was not the only local business named that may be added to the list (where do you get this from?)’ . These statements are gross exaggerations and you have twisted the dialogue out of proportion. What I wrote was this ‘In case you don’t know, there is a major anti-Trump backlash, an international boycott of his businesses and their supporters (and even an app), and I’d be delighted to tell my contacts re. the boycott that the Cock and Bull has not, and does not, side with Trump’s racist, sexist ideas.’ and it does not add up to demanding you do anything, it is not threatening to put you on a blacklist; it is offering to tell the world you have changed your mind on Trump: it could have done you a favour. I do think it is time to up the boycotting of pro-Trump businesses, as I wrote on a Tripping Up Trump thread – which was not addressed to you. 2. Are you a liar? You wrongly said I made ‘inflammatory comments regarding the restaurant elsewhere’ – come up with these inflammatory comments; I’ll be very interested to see how you prove this. I want an apology for what you’ve written or failing that, proof of your claims, especially about the ‘inflammatory comments’.
Back with a bang, Suzanne, I see – you have been sorely missed, as I said in a previous post. I look forward to many more articles authored by your good self.
Was in same class at Buckie High as Rob Lawson.
Smelting down the Cat’s?! NO!!! Leave them where they are!!!!!
Just viewed the documentary “You’ve Been Trumped “. I still have a pain in my chest – sorrow, anger -no, rage! I can’t imagine how you, who have lived through the loss must feel. Nothing I can say will put back what was stolen from you. You may have been Trumped, but the land of your soul, for generations, has been raped. This done by a person (Can’t call him a man, for fear of possibly offending those who are, and he doesn’t meet my definition of human.) who seems to have only two motivations: self & money. Trump is a real me-me/more-more kinda guy, isn’t he? Give thanks that he’s not in charge of leading your country. Alas, I can’t.
What I’d like to know is, how much good do you do – for yourself and your neighbors – by continuing to place blame and assign guilt? Are you giving that thoughtless, greedy Trump more power by perpetatting ill feelings and dissention? Will doing so bring back the dunes? Keep well.
Suzanne Kelly says: For anyone who objects to the idea of boycotting local businesses (something I never ‘threatened’ the cock with which you know if you read the article), here are a few words from Trump when Michael Forbes won ‘Top Scot of the year’ in 2012 for standing up to him. Trump said: “I hereby call for a boycott on drinking Glenfiddich products because there is no way a result such as this could have been made by the Scottish people.”
Trump asked people to boycott the Glenfiddich business; to those who attacked me for simply trying to find out where a local business stands which used to support Trump by its own admission – I hope you attacked Trump for actually calling for a boycott back then.
Some people are wrongly under the impression I threatened a restaurant to either disavow trump (it had supported him) or be put on a local business blacklist. This incorrect assumption is a lie, a massive over exaggeration of my asking a trump-supporting restaurant if it still supported him in light of all that has happened. No answer was forthcoming.
But if you have a choice of spending your money at a place that aligns with trump (and you can’t separate the man from his business interests) or one that doesn’t, what are you going to do? Trump asked people to consider boycotting businesses, and those who attacked me for simply trying to find out where a local business stands, I hope you attacked Trump for actually calling for a boycott. Hope this helps some of you. Doubt it will though.
My family have owned the Cock and Bull for 20 years and I have run it for the past 8 years so I thought I would give some background to this article.
Until 8 years ago the restaurant was chef/proprietor run and the banner was erected during that time. The banner did nor reference Trump but was in support of golf and was only in place during the planning stages of the new course but was removed well before any work began (a detail that the author does not think is important, the restaurant then cannot be aligned with the tactics used during the building phase of the development and that does not make as good copy). All of this is irrelevant ten years after the fact but thought I would clarify for anyone who does not know the details.
Through sheer hard work and determination my family have built the business into a reputable establishment that has won best gastropub in Scotland three times and holds an AA rosette for culinary skill and an entry in the much-coveted Michelin guide. We are proud of these achievements but even more proud of the Catering in Excellence award presented by Scottish ambassador Andrew Fairlie in recognition of our commitment to training and educating young people. We have seen hundreds of people come through our restaurant from all walks of life, many have been SVQ trained in cookery, hospitality and management. A large number of our leavers have gone on to have very successful careers in this industry (a few Michelin stars spread among our past chefs – fantastic!) but more importantly they have taken away great life skills that we hope will help them in the future. Our staff are our greatest asset, we are proud of them all and will fight tooth and nail to safeguard their jobs (just for the record Ms Kelly).
It was while we were going about our daily business of creating menus, sourcing suppliers and staff training that Ms Kelly’s fully loaded question arrived on our business page asking if we supported Donald Trump or not. I was genuinely perplexed and would have ignored had I not been alerted by members of the Tripping Up Trump page that Ms Kelly had posted there that she would LOVE to have photographic evidence of the banner erected 10 years ago as it was time to up the boycotting of pro-Trump businesses. Due to this post we refused to answer Ms Kelly’s question and told her that we wanted no part of what she was planning, she then went back on the TUT page to share that we had declined to answer and added a smiley face – a misplaced emoji surely (or glee at having the green light to write this article)?
Since this article was published I have seen my restaurant reduced to being a “Trump-loving greasy spoon” on the TUT page and watched others have their say on matters they know nothing about. While my team were serving 500 customers over the weekend as well as providing food for firefighters across the city who were taking part in a charity car-wash, there were posters bickering over a decade-old banner. While I was in a Prince’s trust meeting on Monday trying to affect positive change by calling for more youngsters to be given opportunities across the industry, there were keyboard warriors spreading negativity and hate towards the restaurant. While I was writing an article for Visit Scotland extolling the virtues of our beautiful country, there were TUT members extolling the need to “hit us where it hurts” by denying us business. While my restaurant was doing grassroots work in the community and trying to actually make a difference through productive enterprise, there were many on the TUT page throwing insults at each other and trying to apportion blame to a country inn in rural Aberdeenshire for the wrongdoings of the American President (the thread has since been removed due to it’s content). It seems ludicrous to me that anyone would want to land so much hate at the door of another but we can at least be thankful that the one real positive since this article was published has been the countless well-wishes we have received via Facebook, email and telephone giving support and sympathy (also inundated by press requests but this sorry debacle requires no further publicity). We have been truly humbled by the reaction of the people of Aberdeenshire who have rallied round us with kind messages.I think the poster C. Coble above has it nailed, why perpetuate blame and guilt when “anger and hate dig holes, love and kindness move mountains” – Zero Dean
Suzanne says: the editors decided to publish Mandy’s comment as it is; it is filled with conjecture, unsupportable conclusions, fabrications. Most of these have been addressed elsewhere. I am glad to know though that it is the same family that came out in support of Trump then that still own it now, and like petulant children will not say if they still support Trump – read into that what you will. Mandy seems to be able to not only read my mind but read the minds of Facebook administrators on the Tripping Up Trump page. Why exactly she puts so much support on the banner – after having confirmed the restaurant supported Trump (see article) is unknown. I’ve previously asked for evidence of things she states as facts – which aren’t’ no evidence is forthcoming (obviously). She actually thinks she and her restaurant matter enough to me to hate them. I don’t hate anyone; even Trump. I do hate racism, sexism, organised crime – all things that Trump is the posterboy for. No one forced the restaurant to come out and declare support for Trump; I had thought given the bad treatment of the Menie residents, the attack on the wind farm which cost Scotland untold sums in legal fees and delayed jobs, the non-existent millions and 6,000 jobs Trump promised never came – that the restaurant would have wanted to tell people that it cannot support Trump. Remember that Trump is a man that RGU and the Global Scots ambassadorship decided did not fit their values and renounced. I’ll not be apologizing for asking whether the cock wanted to join them. But I’d like an apology for the assertions I made any demands tantamount to blackmail, that I made ‘inflammatory’ comments about the cock in the past, etc etc. I’ve written hundreds of pieces, but I’ve never run into anyone before who jumped to such wild conclusions.
You are so right to demand that C&B apologize for publically twisting and misrepresenting what you said, Suzanne. They’re acting just like that racist sexist who ‘dined at this restaurant’. Nothing to be proud of C&B! Suzanne, you are a true inspiration.
*Where can I find this blacklist for Trump-supporting businesses?*
Suzanne says- thank you, glad people have read the article and compared what I wrote to the charges invented against me. I wished the owners would have asked me if they were unsure what I meant rather than jumping to extreme, woefully wrong conclusions and sharing these as if they were facts. I’m neither dumb nor counter-productive enough to engage in demands or threats, let alone do so in writing, let alone on Facebook. There are 2 comments pending- they have not been published yet as they contain more misinformation and opinion presented as fact. As to boycotts; i recommend using google- you will find lots of info there including the app i referred to. What did I think would happen when I asked the cock if it still supported trump? I thought they would be happy to have the chance to distance themselves from a man with proven ties to organised crime and the KKK. After all, who wouldn’t do so?
Nice one Grumpy Dunc. Hope you are making a good recovery. I’m looking forward to getting my hands on the book!
I met Sarah when she was just out of art school. We had and exhibition of her work here at Syllavethy Gallery. She was feisty and fun. I also met her mom and dad. They seemed pretty good people to me. I am an American who has lived in Scotland since 1975. I can’t stand Trump, and wonder how Sarah can? It seems like a dichotomy…but life is strange. I am sure he gives her a fantastic salary, as the ex Face of Aberdeen, and a very intelligent lass. Although still beautiful, she didn’t do well in her interview on the BBC. Shoving truth under the table doesn’t work, Sarah. Her answer to every question was, “It is an on going project.” Promises of 6000 jobs, when only 150 are employed and some of those part time. Hundreds of houses not built, no second golf course or huge hotel. Possibly money gives sleep at night. But what happened to that feisty and fun girl. I still have one of her art works if anyone is interested. I paid her £400 for it, but will sell it for £40,000 now that she is Trump’s lass. Anyone interested. Sarah? You can afford it now.
Now watching ‘Donald Trump: Scotland’s President’ on BBC and amused at the pretence of wide-eyed innocence of Ms Malone.
Still, at least BBC Scotland is finally looking critically at this project now it is fashionable to Bash Trump. Contrast that with the anodyne and uncritical coverage at the time
Hello
We have 2 children and paid about £400 plus for cloth reusable nappies about 13 years ago. They have been boxed up for the last 8 years. Does anyone want them? We want to donate them to someone who will use them rather than us having to throw them away. Thanks
John Askey
Hi John are these still available
Excellent !
Your pithy take on life in Aberdeen & the powers that be is much missed, Suzanne – this is a cracking article! Please don’t leave it too long until the next one.
Suzanne says- thanks for the kind words. Where I’m reporting from now doesn’t lend itself to satire quite like Aberdeen city and shire. I miss the Deen. Happy Christmas all!
Finally I’ve read it. Great stuff Suzanne! Yes the city that keeps giving but for all the wrong reasons
good read from my son at xmas , growing up as one of prison officer kids since 1966 one of( Sandy lawries ) Thanks
Thanks for tbis Fredsplaining; have often wondered about the influences that created the one-off that is you. Looking fwd to hearing music and reading more.
I’d almost forgotten this beuatiful song – A favourite Burns song of Dick Gaughan’s of course. You sing it so well, Ian, thanks for sharing it! Cheered and calmed my Friday morning. Issy
Hilarious article. The only cited source is a guy who actually doesn’t say anything. Plenty of random quotes with no context. Brilliant ‘journalism’.
Suzanne says Dear Jamie, I’m glad you find safety lapses resulting in a broken leg and concussion ‘hilarious’. Do tell though how you recommend protecting sources in such a situation so as to get the details out while protecting their identities. As to the cited source, for the people who understand safety, the point is that the official Dragados rep doesn’t understand how such accidents are normally reported and that companies are normally happy to release their HSE statement. Perhaps you’ll find some other hilarious articles to comment on, for instance there have been some road accidents that might appeal to your sense of humour. Enjoy! PS – since you don’t see the point in protecting sources, perhaps you’ll like to tell us where you work/what company you work for – it’s almost as if you want to defend Dragados 🙂
Well said Suzanne.
One of the guys I know there told me months ago about the substandard rock and the damage to the dredge which neither the AHB or their Spanish contractors have published. Then again all of AHB top guys are in the Masonic lodge so secrecy is a god given.
I would like to get the figures of how many local people are employed on the project ,remembering the 400 jobs spiel before this commenced .
Another excellent article, Suzanne. Lack of information/transparency with our esteemed ‘cooncil’ about many things is just shocking, but I think people here are so used to it they just can’t be bothered protesting or making a fuss.
I really enjoy reading through on this internet site,
it has got excellent posts.
Very good and Holocaust memorial service will be stronger now that you’ve donated. I now know of the consequences of the War.
This was a great day and thanks for all your hard work Katie !only just read this !!!your sister and Duftons Grandaughter Norma xxx
Suzanne says- thanks Carolyn and Davie. Carolyn there is still a lot of apathy but far less imo than when I moved up in 2003. There are movements, protests and people asking questions. Lots more to do, but progress is being made. If the mainstream news investigated businesses and the council instead of sucking up to them and seeking free rent, things would be better. Davie, I can’t possibly comment on the influence of Masons 😉 but appreciate your comments. I still would like to hear in confidence from any sources on Dragados at Nigg. I was a safety rep, and my fear is that someone is going to be seriously hurt or killed long before this environmentally-destructive white elephant is completed.
I do hope you’re right about less apathy these days, Suzanne – if so, long may it continue. I couldn’t agree more regarding your comment about the mainstream media. It annoys me when they crow about such-&-such a business moving into, for example, the Silver Fin building or Marischal Square, all the whole omitting the fact that so many are not new businesses to the area so the premises vacated for the move are now empty. Also the misleading headlines – for example, “new coffee shop opens wherever”, when it’s yet another branch of a well known American chain as opposed to a business new to the area, or heaven forbid, an independent, local endeavour.
William Mackintosh, my great-grandfather. Who’d a thunk it. It brings joy and thanksgiving to my heart, and a tear to my eye.
Stephen Mackintosh.
Saw them at Barrowlands in Glasgow in October 2017.
Best songs and performance I’ve experienced in a very, very long time.
This band already has a huge live following and must be experienced while you can.
The feminist Angela Carter element makes them extra interesting.
Playing Transmt in Glasgow Saturday 30 June 2018.
I used to know Sarah and had an exhibition of her art at our gallery. I set up a charity for Aung San Suu Kyi and thought Theresa May might make a good Prime Minister Obviously, I am a lousy judge of women. Sarah used to be a straight talking fighter, Aung San Suu Kyi used to care for her Burmese people. Theresa May…I had no idea that she hated immigrants so much and was capable of U Turning on her ideals so easily. We were told in school that money and power equals corruption. So being a lousy judge of women, I was also a lousy student, or would have guessed what would happen! three very wealthy blind mice. See no evil (or just don’t look), hear no evil (or stick fingers in your ears), and speak the purest bullshit!
HI I am Interested in some oil. I have Myloma and haven’t achieved remission. Its an aggressive form thats hard to treat as i have two other mutations. Im 45 tomorrow and would like to do anything to remain around for my little girl. As it stands im looking at 18 to 24 months so am ready to crack on with anything!! Many thanks Sharon
Hello- cbd oil frustratingly is still expensive and hard to get on prescription. You can buy cbd oil online and Holland and Barratt sell it too. Hope this helps.
Lovely to see you back writing, Suzanne, despite the dubious circumstances. I hope this situation is sorted out soon, & to your satisfaction.
Suzanne here, hello and thanks. More on this soon- a further piece coming
Will look forward to it. I miss your cutting, pithy, witty writing on specific goings-on!
Great Work ! Quiz is the best method to search out the hidden talent & to check knowledge level among the people.
ANOTHER NAH scam busted! As Lance Corporal Jones so quite rightly put it – “They don’t like it up ’em!”. Carry on the good work but it would be nice to counterbalance the article with one about the legal and aboveboard sanctuaries in and around the city and shire that are doing sterling work without being given any sort of recognition….
Suzanne says – thank you – and I agree with you and hope either that an AV reader will write something up on the great rescues and shelters in the area, or I’ll try to do a piece soon. I was actually working on a piece about a rescue and a shelter, but in the interests of the animals being rescued getting rescued quickly without putting a spotlight on their owner, the piece was dropped.
Hi there,
We would have been thrilled to receive more submissions in Doric, unfortunately we only received one and the selection committee did not feel it was of a sufficient quality for the collection. We did, however, feature several poets from the North East of Scotland, several of whom attended our Aberdeen launch of the book alongside their supporters. Katie and I travelled up to Aberdeen from Glasgow where we were based at the time at our own personal expense, and had a wonderful time at the launch there.
Thank you for your review and for engaging with Aiblins!
Warm Regards,
Sarah Paterson
Sell them to raise funds for the city. A Kelly’s Cat auction is something I would participate in.
Good on you Kathleen.He is definately not welcome here.
This is load of bullsheet. Get a grip! I have joined DUK in the last 3 months and the level of H&S you would expect on a construction site was one of the best in my years of experience.
Suzanne says: I don’t know what you expect, but a 100% accident free situation is what most shoot for. Your 3 months excluded the serious leg injury in December, and many have a different view to yours.
Even as a kid in the mid 1950,s Aberdeen,the back door of 44 Union Grove where we stayed was partly broken by a world war 2 German bomb.
I,ve long left Aberdeen in 1957 and often wonder if the gate is still there today with the relic scar of that distant war and 75 years gone by since the last German raid on Aberdeen in 1943.
Another amazing story by Ms Kelly. Where are all those pictures and videos you talk about? Is there ever any evidence of all the things you say in your articles, other than imaginary whistleblowers?
I think you are actually quite dangerous for journalism.
Suzanne says: thanks for your comment. There is plenty of evidence seen by us, and Dragados knows it to be true. But at present we take more care in protecting our sources imo than seemingly Dragados takes protecting workers. Do tell us what specifically you doubt. Dragados has not been in touch to dispute a single word.
Excellent report! – Since the beginning, I have been concerned that this is yet another project where the people of Aberdeen are being sold a very smelly pup, whose benefits and effects will be very different to those claimed for it.
Suzanne says: Thank you for the comment. The fact two people were recently injured while working on the caissons for the Harbour project should be cause for Dragados to immediately step up their safety. I remain fearful for peoples’ and wildlife’s safety and with good reason.
Please keep writing and exposing the liars and conmen in our local society. You are very brave and I wish you all the best.
Suzanne says thank you for the kind words; will keep doing what I do.
The birds will benefit with the wild flowers (weeds) dockens, sow thistle etc. they can reach the seeds in the snow. Hopefully some trees will take, if they had planted blackthorn, rowan they would have a better chance.
Suzanne says: thanks Bert; meadowland remains the fastest-disappearing type of habitat in the UK – and what also disappeared fast was Cllr Cooney’s proposal to leave Tullos as meadowland: Peter Leonard either lost or undemocratically stopped this. We know the trees if they reach a certain height will be subject to wind toss (the hill is a rubbish tip with very bad soil matrix) – the roots can’t get a proper purchase. No deer, less meadow, less wildlife. And finally, Leonard promised this was cost-neutral: while the council were being pursued for £43,800 for the failure of an earlier phase of this unnecessary, destructive vanity project.
That’s a moving rendition, thanks. I wish I’d heard it then, instead of spending so much time clubbing!
My father and uncle were young bots from Hull in England living in Aberdeen and vividly remember the plane going down. It was so low that my father can remember seeing the pilot and co pilot in the cockpit as the plane hit the top of a group of poplar trees and then knocked the chimney off their house before it crashed. A neighbour was amongst those killed.
“my father can remember seeing the pilot and co pilot in the cockpit”
In fact there was only a pilot, the other person would have been the bomb aimer / Gunner in an HE111
I am a former client of ACC taken into care at birth did not have a childhood Aberdeen City Council has a very bad history going back to the old days of the County Council and Regional Council. Since they wrongfully judged my late mother may I say! they appear to be above the law all the time and could not careless who they abuse. For sure they never cared for me and many other children in its care, however many have asked what care did we ever receive.! Survivors of abuse will not forgive. Nor will I.
Miss going into Diamond Street and hiding the records I wanted until payday came round LOL
Was a fan until they took the outside investment – seemed to go against all the things they initially said they stood for. Seem to remember a story about unfair dismissal or some such & lack of a proper HR function, plus the owner who appeared on a recruitment reality cum documentary programme some time ago did not come across well at all. I always thought it would be a good place to work if your face fitted, otherwise not so much.
All this notwithstanding, lovely to see another piece from you, Suzanne, although I do love it when you cover the more contentious local stories!
Hi Carolyn – nice to hear from you. It’s a growing company; it’s fixing what it gets wrong, and it’s doing a good deal right socially and brewing-wise. Compare and contrast with some Aberdeen businesses (or the council, getting ready to cut services again to the most vulnerable), or other brewers (they are far from giants just yet compared to the big boys, one of which tried to literally steal an award from BrewDog years back). I also like the fact that whether I’ve arrived in my zep t-shirt or a pinstripe suit, no one looks at you funny. But if you want contentious stories – I’ve now got something in the works that I think you’ll like – hope so. Cheerio.
Many thanks for the response, Suzanne. Oh don’t even get me started re our esteemed ‘cooncil’ – when I contacted them to say that the salary paid to the ‘Evening & Night Time Economy Manager’ could have been put to better use elsewhere, & actually said that I knew they’d come back to me with the fact that the salary was from a different budget to, for example, elderly, disabled or community services, that’s exactly what they did say!
It’s not so much contentious issues that I like, it’s your take on them, especially one particular subject whose main character I won’t name as I have a specific holiday destination organised for a trip shortly!! I look forward to your forthcoming article.
hello
My name is Ricardo Thomson and I am chilean
My grand father was Thomas Thomson Duncan and my grandmother Joan Hoban Winchester
Both arrive tu Punta Arenas city in the south of Chile direct from Liverpool
May father Adam Richar Thomson Hoban and there brothers Thomas Thomson Hoban and Jack Leslie Thomson Hoban was sended to Aberdeen to go to the school around 1920 t0 1926
I am looking to see if they go to the Victory School there stay with there grandmother and she lives in Menzies 27 at Torry área
if you can help with more information i will thankfull
Best rgds RT
good luck with your search; if you want me – Suzanne Kelly, one of the contributors to help, I can share this on some Torry, Aberdeen social media groups. Just let me know.
In this Trumped-up World it has always amused and unsettled me that Damien Bates has the names of two infamous horror film characters, namely Damien from The Omen and Bates, as in Norman Bates, from Psycho.
It’s all very creepy but this horror story is our reality.
You continue to deliver, Suzanne. I will follow this article, & any responses or comments from those mentioned, with interest, though I won’t hold my breath for anyone actually rushing to contact you! I have noticed recently that Ms Malone has reverted to using only her own surname when being interviewed or quoted. As for the forthcoming book by Mr Bates, you couldn’t make it up (though I’m sure he will)!
Good morning
I work at Aberdeen City Council Work Experience Unit where we place secondary school pupils into 1 week placements or extended placements which is usually a couple of afternoons / days a week over a period of time. We are looking for some new employers to come on board so that we can ease the pressure of asking the same employers time after time. We require placements in all different areas as follows:
Accounts
Administration
Beauty
Care Assistants
Childcare
Dentist and Dental Nurses
Electricians
Engineering (mechanical, electrical, design)
Graphic Design
Hairdressers
IT
Retail
Sport
Veterinary or working with animals.
It would be great if you could possibly post this on your site so that any employers that are interested in taking part in the programme can get in touch.
Health and Safety requirements are not a barrier to hosting work placements. Aberdeen City Council trained staff will complete a young persons risk assessment. The only piece of paperwork that the employer has to have is a copy of Employer’s Liability Insurance.
Any interested parties can get in touch by e-mailing rwhyte@aberdeencity.gov.uk
I look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards
Rhona
hello – someone will be back to you shortly, thank you for your message
Hi there …. I have posted your request up on the Aberdeen Voice facebook page. Hope this brings about a good number of responses. All the best – Fred.
Suzanne Kelly says: George Sorial quit his post with Donald Trump a few days ago. Aberdeen Voice emailed both Sorial (prior to his leaving) and Trump International Golf Links Scotland; no replies have been received.
I was told yesterday that this was a top artical and I should give it a read. It has lived up to high expectations. Well crafted artical by a Mr Dave Watt, he should be proud of his handy work. Anyone know what colour of car he drives?
My family netted salmon for 5 generations all round Scotland. Yes we overfished, but more factors also damaged stocks – pollution from fish farms including sea lice, overfishing of the sea bed for sand eels, habitat and climate change, and exploding populations of seals. You can argue with any of these, I am not a biologist.But the stock reduction has happened.
Yes we shot seals, at close range from the boats, those seals who were hanging about the nets and most liable to be guilty of damaging the salmon. That happened, and there was no fuss. It was control, not extermination.There is more worry in the N of Scotland about intensive control of raptors and mountain hares, and the disappointing lack of control of numbers of deer.
I happen to like seals, probably more than any other animal, because of their intelligent inquisitive nature, and willingness to give up their own time to almost talk to you, and I have sat out on rocks doing just that. But that doet stop me wishing that their stocks be controlled. I am sorry to tell you that most of you eat animals who have been killed by man. Personally I think that we should eat sealmeat. I have eaten whale, no problem at the time, but judge me if you want. We can spend from now until the end of time judging each other.
Mr Ian F. Benzie ~ much more thin a wee bit of magic! Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi ‘s nach fhaic!
As a professional railway engineer, I am in complete agreement with the proposal to re -open the railway to Ellon : with few caveats: 1 A proper funding package with a robust business case. must be put in place to ensure that the plan is economically credible. 2 the new line must be built to suit the travel requirements of not only today but of the prospective travel needs of the latter part of the 21st century and early part of the 22nd Century. Long term planning is required if a project such as this is to be a success, we should also be looking to create a high voltage A.C. electrified railway network, (25K.V.olt,) in the North- East of Scotland as this will help to create sustainable economic growth in the region and help with the diversification of the regions’ economy in the long term. 3 We should not get hung up on saying we re-open certain lines we need to look at current transport network look at what the major issues are going to be in the future and plan any expansion and improvements to the network accordingly; long term transport planning is required in this region to sort out the current mess and we must include the distribution of traffic in the City of Aberdeen, with all options being on the table because if we improve the transport network outside the city, then these improvements will have a knock on effect on the city’s traffic. There is potential for rail expansion in the region but it must be planned on a proper business like basis.
Stewart Prise Fyvie Aberdeenshire
Well done, Suzanne!
Suzanne: Thank you Alex x
At the same time I fell ill in London, was rushed to hospital and in an isolation ward for several weeks.
Everyone from the govt. to health authorities and FBI types were trying to find the cause. I had ParaTyphoid and the only treatment was one pill a day. One other woman had the same illness – we were from different parts of London and the investigators could find absolutely no connection between us as to where we had eaten.
Finally it was determined that I had eaten a corned beef sandwich in a deli near Claridges Hotel.
The beef had been rejected by U.K. health authorities, sent back to Argentina where it was re-packaged and got through the second time.
I hope L.A. wakes up and realizes how serious a disease this is.
Congratulations Suzanne , sharing to my American @ English Friends , and I’ll definitely buy the book , ❤️✌️🏴
Suzanne says: Hello Lesley – and many thanks indeed. I’ll be interested in your feedback. All the best.
Congratulations Suzanne, sharing to friends in America @ England , and I’ll definitely buy your book , really proud of you lesley ❤️✌️🏴
Suzanne says: Many thanks Lesley; I appreciate it.
As a Scot living in the States, I’m very much looking forward to reading your book.
Suzanne says – I’ll be very interested in your opinion; the paperback is now out. Many thanks for taking the time to comment.
Not one prescription has been issued to adults with epilepsy since being sanctioned.
Suzanne says – it’s appalling – an approved medicine, one that could be affordably produced, is being withheld. at SCOAP we are getting scores of letters from people who have used cannabis and cbd medicines, who are benefitting from them – but for whom the NHS refuses to write prescriptions. SCOAP will continue to lobby.
Unfortunately for Donald and Ivana Trump, all that glittered wasn’t gold. But the reign of New York’s self-created imperial couple isn’t over yet.
Congrats Suzanne – now I am safely back on this side of the pond after a visit to old friends (!), I look forward to ordering the book & settling down with a glass or two of red for a good read!
Suzanne says Hello and thanks for the kind words. The paperback will be out very soon.
Hello Suzanne
Apologies for bothering you, but as I “don’t”do Facebook” I have no other way of contacting you – looked at ordering your book in paperback from Amazon, but delivery time quoted was a couple of months! Would you be so kind as to update me on the situation please?
Many thanks
Carolyn
Hi Carolyn – sorry for the late reply. I was astonished when I saw that; my publisher says he’s seen this before with Amazon, and he’s working on it. It really should be a matter of days for the paperback to arrive, but I’ll happily send you one of the copies I have. If you send me your address to sgvk27@aol.com, we’ll work it out. PS – there will be a few videos of me reading some chapters coming soon; hope you’ll like.
GUESS THIS COULD BE TITLED “WE TOO (at least I, for one) HAVE BEEN TRUMPED BIG TIME by a cruel land grabber/plunderer who has managed to dupe 38% of the US population into electing him President. If not for gerrymandering, i.e., districting and the unnecessary electoral college, well….For one thing, the planet has been given less than 12 years to slow climate change. Under this gargoyle he ousted the EPA and Endangered Species Act, opened the Arctic for oil drilling, and speculated buying Greenland. Thank Odin, the latter isn’t for sale. If a golf course or casino was built on that ice, and drilled for oil, the Atlantic and North Sea would rise in 5, not 12 years. Surely the president of Denmark seen what our President hath wrought on Aberdeen’s dunes. She knows he bowed out of the Paris Climate Accord and committed enough violations to fill a volume or two. But you already know this.
Only recently have I discovered the Aberdeen Voice having looked around the Net, looking for updates for 2018 and 2019 on the status of the Forbes’ (especially Molly), the Munros, and the Milnes’ situations and found nothing. Somehow I found the Aberdeen Voice. “The Trouble with Trump” 1 and 2 were such a relief to be able to comment here. Everyone who knows me, listening to my impotent anger at Trump and his abuse of power, shares my feelings. I warned people not to vote for him (pleading “look what he did to an environmentally sensitive area of a country not hjs own–don’t turn him loose on the USA!”) after watching Anthony Baxter’s film in 2014. A lot of people heeded my plea, some just to shut me up.
At this juncture, 2019, this is my first chance to voice deep concerns on many levels. I am from New York, Arizona, and Southern California, respectively. I was visiting Savannah, Georgia when the film You’ve Been Trumped woke me up on Free Speech TV. Then buying the DVD, I was appalled by his inhuman x, his elephant tail- brandishing pipsqueak son; be was plundering another country, denigrating and eventually punishing property owners who dared say no to him. Anyone with a TV already knows how despised Trump is by a majority of us over here. As a senior aged 82 next month, living 3 miles from the California and Mexican border, in a 98% Mexican-American neighborhood, many Latino families and other friends share my feelings. It was a great honor and a real treat, they said, that those property owners fly Mexican flags over Aberdeenshire skies!
My question is, then: Why, if Alex Salmond finally got wise after he and his put-upon constituents have been thoroughly bilked by the Tangerine Tyrant, hasn’t he still got up off his parliamentary arse and seen to it that the violations of the rights of his constituents were HIS top priority? Has he fined the departments in Scotland that have not complied? What kind of power does the MSP have? Trump’s power can’t be absolute. Why hasn’t Mr. Salmond finally “manned up” and visited the people’s needs, sincerely apologized and listened to them, inspecting properties, taken copious notes, and got things done, i.e. was at the ready for them? He isn’t timid about voicing his opinion in public or in his office. Now he has the dubious honor of being on Trump’s insult list, maybe even has a nickname. He should never have allowed this invasion to occur and he knows it. He is a fellow Scot, Donald isn’t–he’s an invader from another country.
If the earthen cliffs with loose soil that kicks up on a windy day and gorse still prevent the Munros from getting any sun, aren’t they legally considered an impediment to the owners’ health, tranquility, comfort, and sunlight? All this should be corrected a.s.a.p. How high up can an MSP go? Or are there greedier people who out-rank him? From the photo of the Milne cottage and Munro station, attractive white buildings, scenic, classically built, neatly maintained, they need never have been deliberately concealed from view. The berm and the gorse are inside the Munro property—-NOT Trump’s, aren’t they? So their property line is intruded upon–a gross violation of property ordinances, right? And, the Munros should not be harassed by absentee Trump’s local armed bully police preventing the Munro egress-ingress to their own property. The hired goons routinely trespass and intimidate and follow Susan whenever she walks her dog to the beach There should be a higher authority to protect the property owners. Money is one thing, but aren’t there laws? Trump has wilfully set property lines to intrude on private property, i.e, David Milne’s. It’s his country, not Trump’s. He violated your land.
Salmond should not just be miffed because Trump gave HIM “10 cents on the dollar”. But he should go all out to restore rights and reparation, be a pubic servant for a change. He is not helpless, is he? The government’s responsibilities are ignored. It shouldn’t cost the victims a cent. Trump owes them. He admitted the Forbes pipe was an accident. HE acts wronged, not Forbes. If he doesn’t fix the problem, then Aberdeenshire legislators should step in. Salmond (or whoever may have replaced him by now) should stand up for his constituents. He serves them, not vice versa. If there’s anything I got wrong, please straighten me out.
As for Mike and Sheila Forbes and their fearless mom, Molly, admired and loved by people worldwide—and by the way, my role model—were their water, plumbing and electricity finally properly restored by now? Has anyone responded? It’s 10 years.
While watching the crowds of supporters to whom the Forbeses opened their wholesome barn to talented artist David (who got Trump down pat) and other loving friends and supporters. Their old farm is exactly like thousands of working farms of all sizes in our country.
Those who live in glass high rises shouldn’t throw stones. Donald Trump is used to tacky, baroque gilded, ostentatious surroundings. The photos of Trump’s debris-strewn junk, plastic and boards are shameful. As an absentee owner, his garbage is collecting, yet he trashes Mike Forbes’ tractor, machinery—and maybe of the nice white pony with a full mane of his own natural hair. Hypocrisy comes to mind.
I for one am now a fan of the Aberdeen Voice and would like to subscribe.
Dear Ms Stewart, Suzanne Kelly here, and I just wanted to thank you for your kind words. I am a bit late in seeing this comment, as I only write occasionally for aberdeen Voice these days, so apologies for the delay in posting it. Your thoughtful comments come just as Damian Bates, former Aberdeen Journals Ltd editor, has been chosen to address an annual Aberdeen business dinner to talk about his pro-Trump book. For a dozen or so reasons, I find this disappointing. Thank you for reading AV; I’m going to put out an ‘Old Susannah’ column for the first time in a while, perhaps you might enjoy it. All the best
Your article fails to highlight just at how monumentally incompetent the AHB staff (sorry meant thugs) currently onsite actually are which has greatly contributed to all the problems that they are currently facing onsite. Keith Young should be castrated for putting these morons onsite.
As much as Dragados gets criticised for this, the Aberdeen Harbour Board have been far far worse in both the behaviour and conduct on the project
How can we be sure that the museum collections have been the subject of a formal inventory and that items have not disappeared . In addition the recent decanting of the art collection to a ‘safe place’ during the ongoing works at the Gallery must have considerably increased the risk of fire , theft or damage .
Did the council take out a ‘special’ policy to reflect this , I wonder ?
Please council, vote no. In line to what David mentioned, the long-term maintenance on the roads, sewers, drainage, and surrounding infrastructure is a reason alone to not approve this plan. It would be irresponsible for you to vote yes on something of this size, as it does not support the living conditions of the adjacent surroundings. In addition, the Aberdeenshire council should be looking at projects in a controlled and directed manner so as to be compatible with preserving the rural-residential character of the town. It is your role to recognize the importance of quality natural resources, environmental resources, especially water resources and the continued health of the community. Listen to your community on their desire for positive growth and changes that actually supply growth and enrichment.
Trump can bull dose his way into anything with his lies that can seem so believable. Please no more houses. I live in the USA and see first hand what Trump can do to destroy the land.
As previously discovered, Mr. Trump is the King of Empty Promises. Please Aberdeenshire Councillors don’t sell your souls to the devil.
Joyce Douglas
With President Donald J. Trump (and now Prime Minister Alexander de Pfeffel Johnson) we are witnessing how the world really operates, via the money power establishment. Their purpose is to maintain and increase the power of their dynasties, at the expense of the people whilst using the psychological techniques well proven in advertising to get the very people who will pay to vote for them.
This is extremely cynical and cannot end well.
The concept used to push through just about any enterprise is “growth.” This is a fallacious and dangerous concept which sounds good but is an ill because they mean exponential growth. The reasons for this are based in the private debt-based money creation system imposed on us which demands more stuff is produced and thrown away every year to make the debt; e.g. National Debt, seem smaller as a proportion of GDP when in fact the debt is increasing because that is how our money is now created.
To get to grips with this basic problem read The Bank of England Quarterly Bulletin Q1 2014 website Topical Article “Money Creation in the Modern World: an Introduction.”
Exponential growth (of anything) is impossible in a finite system such as a planet.
The only things that can successfully grow exponentially are cancers and infections.
The area can not sustain this development. It is also a back door to a further bid to put more houses near Balmedie. Notwithstanding all that, I would urge the council not to put itself further into Donald Trump’s pocket; the more you give him the more he will take.
You are misleading your audience. Trump is not being impeached. Know your facts.
“Donald J Trump is being impeached with some six congressional committees looking at a myriad of potentially serious crimes he’s committed. “
Hello Joshua, always happy to argue minor semantics and points in the face of devastating environmental disaster such as the vote has created. The impeachment road is a long one with Nancy Pelosi announcing a formal impeachment inquiry – the first step, and there are indeed half a dozen committees looking at different aspects of impeachment/impeahcable offences. Impeachment process has started. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B8UMTLL3OU However, if any readers want to view something really unbalanced, here’s a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYb2KTHKk2Y in which Trump says ‘what the Democrats are doing “… should be stopped, MAYBE legally” – is he asking for illegal help – he does have mob friends as is proven. He goes on to compare Adam Schiff to Pontius Pilot – and therefore painting himself as Christ (which some of his less balanced, armed evangelicals may take to be a rallying cry – they’ve been told Trump is god’s ‘chosen one'”. Do I agree that I’ve misled readers? No – it’s started. Do I know my facts? Yes – do you? What do you make of the state of the impeachment process then, and of the whistleblower situation – and myriad other improprieties. As to impeachment – Tally ho!
Lovely to see Mr Milne giving his thoughts, just a shame that the powers that be appear to have taken no notice whatsoever. I had the pleasure of meeting him at an industry event my then employer had organised just after Anthony Baxter’s documentary was shown, & I made a point of talking to him.
Welcome back, Suzanne – how I’ve missed your witty, observant take on things! Totally agree with you on the child exploitation thing, but am reluctant to comment agreeing with you on so much more as I still want to be able to visit friends on the other side of the pond regularly! I did comment on the lovely David Milne’s recent article, though – I’m a fan! The Shire councillors, who are supposed to represent their constituents’ wishes, should be ashamed of themselves – no notice whatsoever taken of the few thousand letters of objection to the latest iteration of plans for Menie. It would appear quite a few of them registered initial objections, then folded like the proverbial house of cards when push came to shove. Let’s just hope karma comes into play at the next local elections, that’s if people can even be bothered to vote, & it would be understandable though regrettable if they didn’t, given that what us plebs think appears to be of no consequence at all. I look forward to your aforementioned 10 further columns!
Hello Carolyn and thank you – it’s good to be back looking into Aberdeen city and shire shenanigans. 🙂
Well written Suzanne. If only you could spell without replacing s for z. This is a yankee bastardisation of good English (a pet hate)
You are quite right about my ‘s’ ‘z’ issues. It got worse since I started doing some writing for an American gun law reform group. Then again, there are some English words where the z is acceptable if not preferable. All too much for me before I’ve had my cofvefee.
I’d just like to add to my piece a couple of notes – one, to remember Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Trump refused to listen to the audio which proves his barbaric murder by the Saudis was both horrific and premeditated. Instead, Trump has hired out US troops to the Saudis. But Damian sticks with his story that Trump’s a good friend, and Bates is a misunderstood, honest working newsman. Secondly, someone created a video of Trump’s head superimposed on a person beating up second person, which had the CNN logo instead of a head. In the vvideo Trump punches CNN repeatedly: trump personally shared this video on his official US Presidential twitter account. No other American president ever has shown such contempt for journalism, nor done so in such a childish yet violence-promoting manner. Northsound and Bates – have a great dinner.
A few years on 2019, and oil is still thriving in Scotland, new fields new contracts etc. are still being discovered and formed; oil is not running out soon but technology and culture is shifting: eg. Mariner, Hurricane, West Shetland. There are still scores if not 100-200 oil rigs at least in production in the North Sea today. Many foreign owners and contracts as well as overseas workers are employed; but the Scottish government has limited powers since it is Westminster that controls spends. Only if Scotland becomes independent will full economic and cultural control be possible. Athough it is not widely advertised, some oil industry companies also support and gives back to the local communities and education through different schemes. It’s not all bad news. Renewable energy in Aberdeenshire 2017-20 has now reshaped the horizon all along the local coastline. The Scottish gov. under SNP aim for a shift away from oil towards greener systems. So if oil is dead or dying it is because contemporary culture, politics and society wants it that way for the sake of a greener future. But there is still money to be made in the depths; will it be buried or what would happen if Scotland became independent now?
Your message is pure and true as a Native American I’m sorry
You have excelled yourself, Suzanne! If that doesn’t stop the punters voting for BoJo the Clown, nothing will!
Have passed this several times over the years and wondered what it was. Definitely not a Martello tower; too many openings, though not overly dissimilar. The ‘dig’ at Pick Of The Unscrupulous Scum/POTUS 45 is entirely acceptable, mandatory even. Thank you for this historical idiosyncrasy.
Hey Amigo,
It’s been about 6 weeks so maybe you’ve heard, but Randy Cannon has left this atmosphere. He has been living in my building for the past 10 years and I saw him regularly in the elevator. He had embarked on a significant weight-loss program and looked pretty good for a while. But then he gained a lot of his weight back and was looking like a real ‘puss-bag’ (up to you), I never interfere.
He was about 15 years younger than me. I also have just put away both my parents, and now for the first time in my life I am feeling the finite-ness of life.
Best,
LG King
Checkpoint Charlie’s Sunday Nights
I heard from an old man years ago that the spies paid £1 either for or to hire ! The old fella had a fair sparkle in his eyes when he explained that £1 was a fortune in Crivvy at the time. PS it wasn’t Sandy !
I can’t understand why we must import these dogs , there a thousands of dogs in need of a good home in the uk , so is it just people think they are cute and cuddly ? Believe me they are not !! some are so damaged and prettified the kindest thing to do is put them down ,, charity begins at home get a dog here not from over there
Suzanne Kelly updates that as of yesterday morning Alan Donnelly will not attend civic functions. He is still poised to vote on the budget. More soon.
The local news later on yesterday reported that he had officially notified the Standards Commission that he was going to appeal his conviction. Why does the old saying “Denial is not just a river in Egypt” spring so readily to mind?
SSPCA are not fit for this purpose , they need shaken up and made more transparent . They are corrupt …
Until they can sort themselves out , the snake is the tip of the iceberg .
Jackie is correct. If you only knew the truth about the SSPCA, they are the one’s that should be investigated. Go and inspect their base and the poor conditions they keep animals in. Talk about calling the kettle black.
Honestly, how the Nigg Bay Expansion ever got the go-ahead is beyond me…then I remember the sort of city council we have lived under and it makes sense. Corruption and incompetence.
A “solution” nobody asked for. Throwing tons of money, damaging the environment,poorly sited, to bring tourists to Aberdeen when there is nothing in Aberdeen for tourists. And by bringing them through the sorry-to-say backside of Aberdeen, past train tracks, sewage works and industrial estates and into Torry, a place that has long since forgotten prosperity and smells of fish or other industrial smells, and hardly the lowest crime rate in the city.
It’d be far cheaper for Aberdeen to take sensible steps to improve it’s own tourist appeal so it can catch some of the traffic to Deeside.
Typical ACC, always obsessed with grand expensive stupid business-friendly schemes, that line the pockets of councillors and especially the contractors, but often somehow leave Aberdeen, its people themselves poorer and the city scarred for the effort.
Hi Susanne
Enjoy your columns but I’m afraid you are victim of fake news. I am sure that there are many wacky banners and posters scribbled in support of conspiracy theories but I’m afraid Obama 19 is not one of them. See: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/barack-hussein-obama-covid-sign/
I am sure you would be the last one to justify the circulation, however inadvertent, of fake news so I hope just to show that we all play by the same rules, you will make a correction in your next column.
Cheers
Ian
Hello Ian, Thank you – I am happy to set the record straight now and amend my piece. Thank you for sharing this. Fake news is something everyone is susceptible to even me. Many people get caught (hands up – I did here and have done in the past) – but many more people choose to never question the authority of something in print. Cheers.
Hi Suzanne
Thanks for that. I’ve been caught out too and had to retract a post I recently sent to a few friends on WhatsApp once I realised I had sent them what turned out t be false. This despite my confidence in being able to spot something dodgy from 100 yards!
Writing this not as a comment so please don’t publish. Is Fred still dealing with editorial suggestions? I am not getting any responses from suggestions I am making though the contact form, in particular re developments at Aberdeen South Harbour. Is there any reason he is not responding?
You can contact me directly at ian_baird@fastmail.fm
Ian
Ian, sorry so late in replying! As far as I know the comments form still works, but I don’t have access. If you email me at sgvk27@aol.com I will happily look at editorial suggestions share with Fred. All the best
Scottish writer Isabella Fyvie Mayo (1843-1914), who lived in Aberdeen, had views on the subject of memorials and statues:
‘‘Of late years, since the multiplication of “monuments” and “memorials” has become the fashion, Scotland has erected many to the honour of Royalties and of Scotsmen who have taken prominent part in spreading English dominancy over the world, whether by force of arms or statecraft. But she has not much remembered those sons of hers who have wrought for all human kind or for herself.” [The Young Man, 1901]
Mrs Fyvie Mayo instanced the abolitionist Rev. James Ramsay (1733-1789), an Aberdeen graduate whose writings had inspired Wilberforce but who, she believed, had no memorial. And she supported the idea of honouring Aberdonian William Alexander, author of Johnny Gibb of Gushetneuk, complaining that “his sole memorial had been thrust into a graveyard of sordid associations.” She may not have known that Nelson actively defended slavery but she commented that he “was on the side of the tyrants against the peoples” and that “after his death a great deal of Russian Imperial money went into the foolish column on which he now stands (as an honest Jack-tar remarked) mast-headed.” [being sent up to the mast-head was a punishment] And she referenced the involvement of Scots in imperialism in her objection to a memorial to John Wilson of Fochabers according to the press report of a talk she gave in 1894:
“in Tasmania the native had vanished before the barbarity of the white race, and in Matebeleland there had been another object lesson supplied. A monument was to be erected at Fochabers in memory of Major Wilson’s party; it was to be hoped the inscription would record that these men suffered through the treachery of two scoundrels of their own race.” [‘Aberdeen Journal’]
Not surprisingly, the resulting memorial fountain, commissioned by the Duke of Richmond and Gordon did not include any such comment in its inscription.
This was a stupid idea. We have them in Seaton beside Mrs. Murray’s and the multistorey’s. They have only just started to grow now after years. I’ll tell you out of four multistorey’s (Bayview, Northsea, Aulton and Beachview Courts.) Only 30 residents from Aulton Court had agreed to this initiative. Residents in the other buildings DID NOT WANT THIS. And now the area looks worse than ever.
Suzanne Kelly here – what an absolute fiasco – expensive failure, and the taxpayer picks up the tab again. The story may be old, but the anger is still very much with us – glad you commented.
Three plus years on and I have just come across this article in relation to searching for something else.
Wowee I thought, strange no edit telling us the undoubted sum it fetched. What a story. Surprised I missed this. Then I read the comments to see if someone had posted the info.
Face palm…
“limbless artists from North Korea”
Bloomin Nora – how did I not click right away. Double face palm. I’m blaming lockdown brain.
I worked for them and dean keans reply was very much a new employee rant at 23.41 clearly had a few shandy’s trying to make himself look good to his new employers. The place was a complete shambles. I witnessed very serious racism against foreign workers, a couple of managers who hadn’t a clue, but swiped everyone who was a threat to them including accidents being brushed away. I heard daily a manger going to meetings and coming back calling the higher management for everything under the sun then when the arrived on site he was there best pal. Confidentiality well non existent. Management bullying worker tried it with me 1 week well put in there place tried to say this and that and with my experience absolutely rattled him for six. He never knew my back ground he thought I was a agency worker tried his best then found out I was very well known in my profession including with the hse. He knew he wasn’t a match and I rose from that. Middle management were a problem on that site ie site agents who knew nothing a guy who spent years on a submarine trying to take charge it was laughable and it’s little wonder the gate closed. The middle management always tried to under mime the Spanish management and then walked about the site all day to the dead wood as I called them calling them for everything then in turn the dead wood would carry this on making the top boys look stupid again. The problem was the middle management DIDNT know what they were doing then passing orders onto guys who were clueless to the operations vehicle Marshall’s getting made to be experienced ground worker whilst all the good guy and there was many got shown the door because they showed the middle management up as they had the knowledge. I could name a few so dean were are you now as you weren’t there when I was there so you three months was well noted a bet you regret now putting your name to this post. The middle management talked a good job and with the language barrier the higher management didn’t know any better. I sussed it the first few days I was there. I had my ear to the ground I knew before taking the job who the fly by nights were and who was milking dragados and it wasn’t all Spanish guys as they would let you know to make them self look very important king rats. What we left with now in Aberdeen the harbour board 350mil out of pocket all blamed on the covid-19 that’s bullshit the place sunk well before that when it was announced the north break water had to be dug back up yes people dig back up. Again traffic Marshall’s doing the ground works and all the wrong materials being used. Why did the middle management not stop this eh eh because they were cluesless.
Cool! My Mom, Margaret Abercrombie, descends from this guy. Glad I found the article. Is there a manor house still standing at Glassaugh? Do I need to come visit!? – Lorie
Yes the manor house is still standing, though in a ruinous state. You are welcome to visit any time. yvekennedy@yahoo.co.uk
I think that you need to reconsider the school going back until the outbreak has settled! Numbers are rising and the safety of the children and teachers has to be paramount! Blended learning to see the numbers of if there will be a further rise by putting schools back or home school until it’s safe! My children are your guinea pigs.
Suzanne here, I’ve been sent this anonymous comment; anyone from the Shire, which has not responded yet on risk assessments care to comment?: “…Academy in Peterhead, whole sections of the school would be unfit for use as lacking ventilation – windows jammed shut for years – awaiting demolition & replacement in coming 5 years, how could it possibly pass a risk assessment, and any remedial work couldn’t be completed within a few hours of opening”
Suzanne with an update: 1. Aberdeen City Council is debating with me on twitter, pointing to its FAQ document which says the Risk Assessments are done – they are not. But this just in from Unison – they are happy for this to be shared: “UNISON believes that support staff across Aberdeenshire are very concerned about the reopening of schools.
Ann Gray Branch, Assistant Branch Secretary, said “We have had Pupil Support Assistants.,School Administrators, technicians , Cleaners and Caretakers raising concerns on a weekly basis .They are receiving inadequate information from their individual schools. They are all clear pupils education and wellbeing is foremost in their thoughts however staff must be assured that schools will be safe for their return and sadly at this time staff do not have this reassurance.”
Karen Davidson, UNISON Organiser, said “We have been meeting online weekly throughout the holidays with our members to seek answers to their concerns. Over 50 members have undertaken UNISON Health and Safety training to try and be prepared for assisting with risk assessments for the safe reopening of schools .””
When the Scottish Government announced full opening of the schools (without even face coverings in secondary schools) they said that one of the conditions was “infection rates must be at a level that is sufficiently low to provide assurance that we can continue to control the virus” (https://www.gov.scot/publications/re-opening-schools/). Clearly, this is right now the case in many parts of Scotland, but not in Aberdeen. Germany has set a level of 50 infections per week out of 100,000 people as triggering a lockdown. In Aberdeen, the figure is currently 64 in 100,000 – it is high by any standards. I don’t see how anything other than blended learning can be safe until and unless the infection rate has been brought down.
Very well done to them both and I know there is so many people so proud of Ryan and I haven’t heard much about Lucan’s so good luck to them both I know a few of the future choice group
and I have knowing them a very long time David and
d the team do a great job and I heard about Ryan after is big brother Lewis also did a lot of good things as well and all these’s young teenagers show’s there is also a lot of them great youu man so from a very good friend of future choices keep your hard work going so proud of these young men.
Suzanne Kelly here – first thank you Fred for your help and editing. Secondly, thank to the Stop the Desecration of Marischal College Facebook page who has done in-depth research, everyone who has done FOI requests on the matter, and sources who are still coming forward with new information. Part II will be out in the near future. I am still keen to hear from people in complete confidence who have knowledge of the situation, especially information that has not yet been published.
It would interesting to know if William Young has Power of Attorney over his parents affairs . In any case as a son or indeed as with any offspring the legal affairs of the family are often discussed informally before any action was taken and as a lawyer his parents must have at one point , “Hey Willie , what do you think of this”? There is enough material in this to form the basis of a public Inquiry . The bottom line is ….if my front wall fell into the street , National Cycle Route or not , I alone would have to pay for it .
A very enlightening piece as I have long collected his books which are more difficult to find these days. My very first one I acquired as a present when a child in the1940s, was How to Draw Ships. Thanks for such an informative article. He was a great man.
I am a visitor to my family who live on the Kingseat site in a new build but adjacent to an apartment conversion of one of the original buildings. I am an 85 year old retired doctor and am enjoying the multiple opportunities for long walks around the estate which has many refreshing designs of new build houses..
HOWEVER I am appalled by the state that the remaining undeveloped original buildings are in.
So many of them have great character and would make attractive new homes it sadly many are being left to deteriorate and will ultimately be beyond economic restoration and redevelopment.
One wonders if this is the forward plan of the owner of the site.
I have researched that ownership and have copied these comments to him.
N
Look, I’m not fan of the Evening Express, but this feels like a bizarre criticism. It seems the author of this piece penned it because he was so appalled the EE refused to cover the story (“Did no journalist at the Evening Express feel any impulse to pen an article which would eviscerate the tweet, but not the man? …. The failure to capture and draw attention to this is a hallmark of how toothless, ineffectual and utterly insipid the standard of journalism has become in this country”).
Given Craig’s clear passion for accurate, fair and balanced journalism, wouldn’t it be fair to tell your readers that the Evening Express DID in fact cover the story of Willie’s tweet. Repeatedly – on October 21, October 22, October 27 and October 29.
This article would be totally fair if Craig represented the facts accurately. Instead, this just comes across as they type of woeful local journalism that he rails against.
Come on chaps! You’re all about ethical, fair journalism – how come you won’t publish my response? I’m not saying you shouldn’t publish the article above, but at least add my comment for balance or to inform your readers.
If you’re not going to, can you at least give me an explanation of why it doesn’t meet the moderator’s standards?
Hi Dale, Amazingly, we were on holiday and there is no staff waiting around to approve your posts. They’re approved now, hope that please you. – Suzanne PS – I personally think Craig has a definite point to make about coverage, not least as the EE’s ‘hard-hitting’ columnist Gilfeather sees nothing wrong in Young’s behaviour, calling it a crime against comedy. Glad to have the view of a white male like him on this. I’d ask how any of the EE’s non-white columnists feel about it, but I don’t exactly see very many on the roster. Calling into question the integrity of an AJL paper on issue of racism seems fair; after all, sister paper the P&J decided to lavish praise on KKK-endorsed Trump for years, even giving him a column.
Hi Dale,
Many thanks for your considered input on my article. Iam pleased to see that it has been read, absorbed and considered worthy of comment by yourself.
To address your point, I would add that I had contacted the EE, expressing my concerns over not only the racist nature of the tweet, but also to highlight that, as per my article, Mr Young had been a perpetual nuisance on social media with posts designed to antagonise, belittle and at times disseminate false information on a spectrum of issues, local and national.
The fact that a position was held by this man, a then Labour Party member, which has led to the commission of several prominent “questionable” projects Aberdeen, is of relevance, and more to the point, his tweet was yet another example where Mr Young’s judgment could be legitimately questioned.
Indeed, had Mr Young apologised sincerely for his tweet, there would have been little to discuss.
However, this did not happen and he doubled down on his position, positing that it was those who took exception to the rhetoric in the tweet who were in the wrong.
This man has and arguably still has influence in Aberdeen and I sought to seek assurance that the EE, as part of a free and healthy media, would cover the issue, highlighting not only the racial nature of the tweet, but also bringing to a wider light this former councillors appalling, very public, behaviour on social media. His tweet marking a particularly low point.
With all this in mind, the EE responded, prior to the penning of my article, essentially stating that they did not feel it was worthy of coverage and directed myself toward the another body should I wish to complain.
The EE could have reverted to inform me that they were looking into the issue, or that they were aware of the tweet, but no. They had no real interest.
As Suzanne rightly comments, they ran a “puff piece” by Frank Gilfeather which essentially swept the matter under the carpet, thereby excusing Young of any real scrutiny or critisism.
Further, as she also highlights, this newspaper has not been above acting as a mouthpiece for a businessman who has been vocal in his support of far right rhetoric and on a global stage, mobilised and “dog whistled” far right militia.
In light of the EE reluctance to commit to covering the topic, running a meaningless puff pieces by an adult who should know better, failing utterly to condem the racial nature of the tweet and heaping praise on a KKK sympathiser, I wonder, is my critisism of the EE still “bizzare” in your view?
I would argue that perhaps you have missed the point of my article, where i indicate that by failing utterly to fully and definitively condem racism, we open the door to its acceptance in our society?
I would have thought that this was a point far more worthy of engagement, rather than criticising the article for questioning the competency of our media in failing to condem racism?
Or perhaps you felt that Frank Gilfeather was an appropriate conduit for this newspaper to fully report, analyse and articulatley condem a racist tweet by a former City Councillor and then Labour Party member?
Indeed, having fully explained the basis for the article above, hopefully clearing up any issues you may have had, I would welcome your comments on Young’s tweet, and extend you the opportunity to also critique it?
Ps – screenshots of the poor response from the EE were sent to AV editorial prior to publication of my article, so the veracity of them has been determined. In addition, due to the nature of the EE being a daily paper and the AV being weekly/bi weekly, articles submitted prior to any EE responses may appear several days after the article was written. Regardless, the EE shirked their responsibilities.
Thank you for the response.
I’ve looked for the article that Frank Gilfeather and I think it’s a bit disingenuous to describe it as a “puff piece” – it’s just him expressing his opinion. I don’t know what he’s “puffing” (racism?) or how its publication was a way for the EE to “sweep it under the carpet” (as I’ve pointed out, they also ran a series of articles about the issue – including criticism it was racist and the subsequent apology from Willie).
I think we just have a fundamental difference in what we believe newspapers should be allowed to print. I firmly believe Frank and the EE should be allowed to print opinions that are controversial – even if personally don’t believe in that view.
Since when have newspaper columnists been used to “fully report, analyse and articulate” issues? That’s not their job, and it never has been (I’m speaking about opinion columnists, specifically). I don’t see how you could read Frank’s slightly snarky opinion piece and say he was speaking on behalf of the EE in general or that it was the EE’s attempt to “fully report, analyse and articulate” the issue. That seems to be a deliberate misreading of the article.
To be clear: I don’t agree with what Frank said and I do think the original tweets could be considered offensive. But if Frank wants to disagree with that, I don’t see a problem with them printing it. And I don’t see their publishing his opinion an endorsement of that opinion. (ie if a columnist praises Nicola Sturgeon and other criticises her, how does either view ‘speak’ for the EE?)
If the EE had expressed the same sentiment in their leader column, I would 100% agree with you. But they didn’t, and I don’t think their lack of a direct address to readers about Willie’s tweet amounts to them condoning racism. After all, I don’t expect them to write a piece to their readers to stress that the EE is against violence when they do a story about violence.
To be clear (again): if you got that response from the EE and they did not report anything of the Willie tweets, I’d agree your article was warranted. I just think your criticism is a tad unfair given the thrust of your argument – the EE refused to report this story and therefore they are condoning racism in their silence – is untrue.
But I appreciate you getting back to me. I think we probably agree about more than we disagree with. And maybe both of us are guilty of focusing our angst on the small things rather than the bigger, more damaging, picture.
Suzanne says: thanks for this perspective. It seems for the EE the matter wasn’t important enough to report on seriously – a queen’s civic rep making a racist remark. However, the EE thought it was fine for an opinion piece ignoring the racism, accusing others of losing their sense of humour. Glad to have the old, white male perspective on racism; very helpful. We’ll agree to disagree; if the EE had room for the opinion piece ridiculing those who found the comment racist, it might have found room for some reportage, even if that might have meant cutting down on the latest pretty baby contest or whatever.
I have been contributing to Aberdeen Voice – both in words and in cash for a few years and am grateful for both the platform and the editorial support. But this ranting eight-page piece makes me uneasy. What has it come to when the Aberdeen Voice headlines on “Crazy how white Republicans got other white Republicans scared of Muslims and Mexicans when all along they needed to be scared of other white Republicans…”?
The Aberdeen Voice digital archive is full of verifiable and well written pieces well worth preserving. Bob Smith’s Doric poems, Neil Cooney on the Spanish Civil War, Suzanne Kelly on Sustrans and much much more. But at the end of the day this current piece titled “Thoughts For A Post Trump America Reboot” does little to enhance our reputation as an alternative press for the folk of Aberdeen or indeed anywhere else in the digital world.
Aye.
Suzanne says Well Duncan, I remind you (again) that AV takes submissions that are fact-based, of interest to people in Scotland, and which can be legally published. No one’s forcing you to read any piece you don’t want to; but no one gets to say what belongs in AV if it meets the criteria. Since Trump has destroyed two SSSIs and impacted negatively on many lives from residents at Menie through councillors through to the chef fired because of an obscene-shaped biscuit (yes, really), and since for four years the man held influence over the world and used his position to spread bigotry, I am happy to say that many people enjoyed reading the piece and your attempt to try to pontificate about what does and doesn’t belong in AV when you know the criteria are tiresome. I’m delighted when we’ve printed pro Trump pieces; I sometimes wonder at op ed pieces I’ve disagreed with, press releases from professional PR firms – but I know that it’s not for me to suggest something that fits the publication criteria should not be published. Aye yourself.
PS – I’ve contributed time, supplies, money to AV – but it would have been far beneath me to bring it into a critique of an article.
PS – you do know the difference between a headline and a quote, don’t you? The quote you object to illustrates the racism Trump fuelled and exploited.
Mr Harley, I totally disagree.
You stated what you think but why do you think it?
Not related to Aberdeen? Nonsense.
These facts need to be in documents of record everywhere as a warning to all people from Aberdeenshire to to every corner of the World.
Well done Suzanne Kelly.
Thank you Gordon; appreciated. I was disappointed to see a colleague take what could and should have been an internal discussion to the public by his comment. He must know by now that ACC published things of interest to people in Scotland, things that are true/valid fact-based beliefs, and that are lawful to print. We have no person deciding what goes in or not as long as it meets the criteria. Goodness knows I don’t like everything we publish – but it’s not my place to say we shouldn’t publish valid stories. That’s what sets us apart. An editor once said AV is an empty jar – it’s up to the contributors to fill it. We just make sure it’s legal. x
Keep filling the jar Suzanne.
Good to hear your fire as you hold a moral compass in one hand and a mirror up to America with the other.
I couldn’t get Delacroix’s Liberty Leading the People (1830) famous for its allegorical and political significance – now a universal symbol of liberty and democracy out of my mind.
Just hope the jar is big enough.
I put mine away on the 27th of Jan got a reference number but still no word.
Suzanne here – I wonder if you’ve heard anything more about your application. Good luck.
Absolutely outrageous, not to mention a gross invasion of privacy, to request someone’s bank statement!
Aberdeenshire Council has asked for 3 months bank statements each for 2019 and 2020, so 6 months in total! This is supposed to prove that taxi income has dropped by at least 50%, which is their eligibility criteria. Don’t know if this is central government criteria or if local authorities are responsible for their own criteria. I have serious concerns about handing over 6 months of bank statements but felt we had no option, definitely an invasion of privacy and over the top.
Hi Suzanne here; your bank statements are none of their business. I will ask them about their policy and whether they will let you redact transactions or not like Glasgow do. All they need is your id, proof you’re eligible, and proof of sort code, account number etc.
Thanks for drawing attention to this Suzanne, it is truly shocking. May I correct one point though, the estate most certainly does not have planning permission for clay shooting.
Suzanne here- thank you; I was told a long time ago they had permission for clays. I’ll happily look into that now- thank you for that intel.
You’ve got to laugh. Here’s the council being so “careful” when giving out money in the form of a grant supplied by central government yet if your garden wall falls down the council will dole out £250,000! 😂
Wonderfully lucid piece on the stink created by that former POTUS – who can forget he actually styled himself an environmental expert.
Beautiful tribute to a momentous character and a kind, caring and playful soul. He will be missed XXX
This is disgraceful on a number of levels, but what was to be expected from dealing with Donald Trump? His pattern of narcissistic behaviour is well known.
Useful stuff guys!
“He moved to Britain to avoid the Vietnam War draft,[4][5] and in 1967, he was married in London.[6] He was described as “the first American to refuse his draft call publicly in Great Britain”, and was pictured presenting his US Army induction papers to Canon John Collins in what he described as “a symbolic gesture in seeking the sanctuary of the Church”.[7]“
Wikipedia.
A shining light that may well have been snuffed out had he not acted.
He gave us a lot. A great human being.
Thank you for being Marc Ellington.
I was born in Aberdeen on 2nd April 1940.
We were bombed in Hilton 1943 and moved to Union Grove.
I became a member of the Queens Cross Boys Club.
I was employed at
The Aberdeen Combworks
Middletons, Rose Street
Wow, did Ricardo ever find any leads or information?
The Council are uninsured for the art collections George as are all the other Councils who use Zurich. Audit Scotland corrupted their investigation in the same manner as PWC and the person responsible has recently been voted the new Auditor General of Scotland. Farsical. The new whistlee blowing Bill currently in Westminster makes concealment a criminal offence. The PWC Glasgow corruptor (Mark Reid) was finally caught for forgery via another whistle blower and his professional body (CIPFA) was not pleased. Oh dear, he is going to get whacked again.
The highest value uninsured painting in Aberdeen Art gallery is a Francis Bacon valued at £70,000,000
I am pushing for the Scottish Parliament to investigate Audit Scotland’s corrupted activity in the relation to this whistle blowing case. I’am glad to be back through here in Inverness. I’m retired now also.
Aberdeen Voices were the only news media to give a damn and post something although it is completely outdated now.
Me reading this in 2021, this is Fraser by the way.
Dear Michael and Molly Forbes,
My name is Kanapathipillai Wignarajah and I admire the Scottish and Welsh friends. I am glad that you stood up to that “ar… ” called Trump. He is the biggest liar that roamed this earth. I studied in Liverpool in the early 70’s and then went onto work in Wales under a great man called Professor Gareth Wynn-Jones, a true Welsh patriot. I hope I could come and meet you personally in Scotland. I now live in USA.
Thank you so much.
About 10 years ago, I asked if they could look for a Victorian corset made of leather that I found in the eaves of the attic of my family home thirty five years earlier.. Even though there had been a wee mention of the donation in the local paper at the time, there was no record of it 8j the archives and so it could not be found 😢
Suzanne here – hi Clare – your comment is very interesting – and possibly very important too. I’ve searched the inventory – there are several corsets listed; however not a one is listed as missing. None are described as leather; none of them are that old. I’ll message you on Facebook – something’s gone very wrong with your donation. And if it happened to you, it’s likely happened to others.
Yuck …
Do you not what species are in the stink pit? What are killing and why?
Suzanne says – sorry for the delay in replying! The pits were in such a state of decay it was not possible to tell much – aside from several deer legs. Anything could be in there. I was alerted because of many missing cats; anything that’s a curious animal, particularly a carnivore, could be attracted; but anything could have been killed – like the deer – and thrown into the pit. Definitely invesetigating further when am next around. Thank you for a good quesetion.
Good stuff, Suzanne!
I have been waiting (too long!) for another one of your oh-so-readable articles, Suzanne, & this one doesn’t disappoint, so thank you.
Suzanne here; hello Carolyn; just wanted you to know that my 10th annual Christmas satire is out now; A Night at the Museum. Hopefully you’ll enjoy. All the best and thank you for your support over time. Appreciated.
Great article, Suzanne, albeit an appalling indictment of those previously in charge, & the workings of the organisation in general.
I was unaware of your FOI requests but having been on the receiving end of an UAP on 29th July I made a request today for information on their use. I have been gagged by ACC for slowly unpicking and revealing the truth about their maladministration of Kingswells. May I ask your interest in UAPs?
We lived directly across from Causewayend Church which received a direct hit, our tenement, 26 Powis Place, suffered severe bomb damage and the exterior stone staircase was blown away. We slept in the basement of the Split o’ Wind Church for 3 nights until we were re-located to the home of two sisters that lived in Watson St. We lived there for 6 months until our flat was repaired .
John McDonald
She was my great grand auntie
I recently tried CBD gummies in requital for the victory heyday and I must cbd capsules remark, I’m impressed with the results. I felt more nonchalant and at ease, and my dread was significantly reduced. The gummies tasted cardinal and were mild to consume. I’ll indubitably be using them again and would recommend them to anyone looking appropriate for a logical habit to alleviate accent and anxiety.
It appears that the Aberdeen Compton has been ‘lost’. Historic Scotland listed the building and its contents shortly before permission was granted for its conversion. It was conditional of the planning permission that the organ be donated to ‘The Aberdeen Theatre Organ Trust’, of which Charlie was one of the Trustees. In the five years preceding the ‘gifting’ of the organ to the Trust the Trust was allowed collapse due to retirement and death of Trustees. No attempt appears to have been made to replace the missing Trustee’s, despite interest being shown from several potential replacements. According to OSCR the trust simply ceased submitting accounts in 2018 without explanation. I have it on good authority that in August 2021, during lockdown, Knight Property evicted the organ from its storage premesis, and the sole remaining Trustee, Charlie Davidson, decided ‘Unilaterally’to ‘give’ the organ to a collegue in Germany. The organ has since been removed from the UK.
After reading an article ‘Don’t wait until Aberdeen’s heritage is under threat to fight for it’ by Rebecca Buchan in the P&J, I contacted her with the potential story of the missing organ. Despite an initial interview in which she seemed very excited to look in to it she sat on it for nearly a year then never published it. I find it highly ironic that she then goes on to write articles bemoaning the lack of musical interest in Aberdeen, when she could have played a part in providing the same.
At the time I belived there was a strong case that the remaining Trustee had acted illegally, not least because the whole planning permission for the conversion of the Capitol was granted on the basis that the organ remained in Aberdeen for preservation. Also, the organ was ‘gifted’ to the Trust. Under Scottish law title to an object doesn’t change unless some form of consideration is passed, a ‘peppercorn’ gesture, yet the documents in Aberdeen councils planning department say the organ was gifted free of charge. There was also probably an implied contract between the owner and the Trust which is now broken by the Trust’s failiure to meet its side of the contract. At the time it was shipped I belived there was a very good chance the organ could have been recovered, but thanks in part to the total inaction fo Aberdeen’s P&J that opportunity has probably now been lost.
And if you dont think it could have been done, in the late 1960’s a local Arbroath man, Ian Fraser, bought a steam loco from BR and gifted it to the then Dundee Corporation for it to be included in a proposed transport museum. When, after 20 years Dundee council failed to build the museum Mr. Fraser was able to show that the contract had been broken and ownership of the loco was reverted back to him. The loco, Ivatt class 2, No. 46464, is now nearing completion of its return to steam by the Carmyllie Pilot Company Ltd.
So sad to hear of the ‘loss’ of the Capitol Compton. Also, it is many years since I heard the Henry Willis Organ in the Music Hall played. Anyone know what condition it is in?
“Social media made y’all way to comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it,” – Mike Tyson
Happy Trails is a favourite album of mine. The band however was called Quicksilver Messenger Service.
To the aberdeenvoice.com owner, Good to see your posts!
My mother jean Coulter was on fire station when it was bombed,I know nothing about the date ,damage etc she was never the same again,any information about this would be appreciated
Geoff
I very much remember my late father Richard Forbes telling me that on the day of this raid , he was an apprentice marine engineer at Hall Russell, Shipyard. He was just cycling out the front gate at the exact time of the attack. He recalled that the card school were actually having a break in a boiler room playing card when the first bomb exploded, killing them all.. He was blown off his bike and thrown across the entrance. Thankfully he only sustained minor injuries but the memories of that day stayed with him to the end.
My late father in law George Melvin was a sergeant in the RAF and was for a while stationed in RAF Orkney before being transferred back to RAF Dyce, Aberdeenshire. He was allocated the task of transporting the remains of three German airmen on a plane transporter to be interred at Dyce church cemetery where a small service was given. He recalled the problems he hd driving the winding narrow roads from Raf Dyce to the church yard. We went there several years back and even they being enemies he became very emotional. As far as I recall there are three graves but now only two are occupied, the third was reinterred.