A new freedom of information request reveal Police Scotland incurred costs of £8,000 when Donald Trump cancelled a visit to the Menie Estate. Aberdeen Voice’s Suzanne Kelly is seeking clarification of information police supplied, which she feels is self-contradictory.
Police are often shown in pictures of Trump arriving, travelling or staying at his estate.
The police also intervened in a land boundary dispute at the Forbes Farm, normally a civil matter.
Is Trump getting policing above and beyond what any other visitor would get? If so, what is the cost of this police protection?
On the one hand, the police have this to say about how they treat Trump, his family, and staff:-
“No extra police protection is provided to Mr Trump, his family or staff etc beyond that which would normally be afforded to any other member of the public.”
– letter from Mrs Jody McKenzie, Compliance Manager, Information Management Unit, Grampian Police to Suzanne Kelly, 2 July 13.
However, the same letter which makes this claim continues to say:-
“On one occasion, when Mr Trump had to cancel a planned trip to the area at short notice, an exercise was carried out to estimate what the cost to the force was. An estimate of the officer and staff time was £5200.”
This figure was later revised upwards:-
– email from Mrs Jody McKenzie to Suzanne Kelly of 11 July 13.
To explain their position, Mrs McKenzie wrote:-
“Although costs were calculated in regard to the cancelled trip, this was done at the time of the cancellation and involved a member of staff speaking to individual officers to find out what their shift changes were and what overtime or re-rostered rest days they were entitled to, in order to come up with an estimated figure.
“We also had to ask those involved in planning how long they spent on these tasks – such detail would not be routinely recorded and was provided based on the officer/member of staff’s recollection. Clearly this was easily done due to the fact that task was recent. If we were to approach officers and staff now to recall how long they spent on a piece of work 2 or three years ago, it is unlikely they would accurately recall.
“Furthermore, this would amount to the creation of new information and there is no obligation on authorities to create new information to answer a FOI request. Only recorded information held by an authority should be provided in response to a FOI request.”
I have asked for the police to conduct an internal investigation into how my request was handled. I believe payroll records and other captured data could easily be matched to Trump visit dates (or to cancelled Trump visit dates) and the information requested could then be supplied.
Updates will be made to this story when further information is available.
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I think you will find that a police officer (I used to be one), keeps every bit of information in their notebooks. The new electronic note books would allow an officer to recall information such as time allocated to a job quite easily.
This information would already be held on their notebooks, and therefore would NOT be the creation of new information, it would only need to be collected and a monetary amount given for officers time.
a good point, and one I look forward to the police explaining when they cover how they have no idea how much time / costs accrue to visits that go ahead. Payroll departments usually store information as to overtime, special jobs, etc. It should not be rocket science to match planned/actual/cancelled Trump visit dates to police costs. I look forward to seeing what they write next.
That’s strange. Grampian Police informed me that they were unable to calculate police costs for policing the construction of the Menie estate as they weren’t, or chose not to be, able calculate police time spent on different activities! Graham indicates this might be otherwise.
Here is more of what the police wrote when explaining how they could calculate the cost of the cancelled visit, but could not calculate other costs:- “Although costs were calculated in regard to the cancelled trip, this was done at the time of the cancellation and involved a member of staff speaking to individual officers to find out what their shift changes were and what overtime or re-rostered rest days they were entitled to, in order to come up with an estimated figure. We also had to ask those involved in planning how long they spent on these tasks – such detail would not be routinely recorded and was provided based on the officer/member of staff’s recollection. Clearly this was easily done due to the fact that task was recent. If we were to approach officers and staff now to recall how long they spent on a piece of work 2 or three years ago, it is unlikely they would accurately recall. Furthermore, this would amount to the creation of new information and there is no obligation on authorities to create new information to answer a FOI request. Only recorded information held by an authority should be provided in response to a FOI request.”
You will not be surprised to know I’ve challenged this. Either you have tools to track how your manpower is spent, or you do not. If the police do not track how their manpower is spent, then I’d strongly suggest the police get in step with most other industries, where time-writing is standard. I also refer to the post above re. police notebooks; correlating dates of visits with overtime, etc. should be possible from records kept. We’ll see what they say next
I wonder if Mr Trump was to be/was on previous visits afforded the luxury of a police escort (covert or otherwise) during his periodic visits to The North East? Are his own security staff armed, which would be illegal? Granted he is a very wealthy, if pompous, individual, but he should not be given the benefit of thinly stretched police resources to enlarge his over inflated ego. Grampian, now Scotland’s Police, have been burdened with security costs for decades in regard to certain regal dignitaries; to add Trump’s “State Visits” to that is ridiculous.
It’s a pity the police themselves don’t act in a law abiding and honest manner.
I wonder how much money it costs the police to answer your inane FOI requests?
If the man and his family were left in peace they wouldn’t require police escorts, something for you “activists” to ponder.
Hello George. Of course, the most important thing about anyone exercising their democratic rights such as launching FOI requests is the cost, or so it seems as far as you are concerned. Did you know that by law government organisations have for many years been required to answer FOI requests and have dedicated staff doing so?
As to leaving the man and his family in peace, do you think that the Milne, Forbes and Munro families deserve peace? Precisely what problems have the Trumps encountered that required a police escort? Are you saying you are happy to spend thousands of taxpayer pounds on policing for a man with his own security team when driving from the airport to Menie? I do think you’ve outdone yourself this time Mr Smith